The Triple Option - Ohio State Coaching Staff Raided, The Price of Winning it All, Hall of Famer Dwight Freeney Joins, & Super Bowl Preview

Episode Date: February 5, 2025

So you won the National Championship, what's next? Coach Urban Meyer and Rob Stone discuss the departures from Ohio State's staff and take you inside the process to sustain greatness. Coach breaks down his own personal hiring process after winning three national championships and the key to ENHANCING the program vs adding something new. (1:20) Super Bowl Champion and Hall of Famer Dwight Freeney takes a break from the golf course to talk about the lead up to the biggest game of the year. He also gives his thoughts on his alma mater Syracuse and head coach Fran Brown. (23:02) Coach and Rob then talk Philadelphia Eagles and Kansas City Chiefs ahead of the Super Bowl, including how many yards Saquon Barkley will rush for. Coach or player, who is more important to winning it all? The guys try to answer that very question. (45:08) New episodes of The Triple Option drop every Wednesday. Make sure you’re subscribed on YouTube and following on all podcast platforms. Also make sure you’re locked in on social @3XOptionShow on all platforms for highlight moments, bonus content, and to engage with the guys and the TO community. (https://tripleoptionshow.com) The Triple Option is presented by Wendy’s. Pick between a Classic or Spicy Chicken Sandwich, Hot and Juicy Dave’s Single, or 10 pc Nuggs as part of Wendy’s 2 for $7 deal - https://m-wendys.app.link/247  A big thank you to the rest of our sponsors: BetMGM Use bonus code OPTION or go to https://betmgm.com/OPTION and get up to a $1500 First Bet Offer on your first wager with BetMGM! First Bet Offer for new customers only. Subject to eligibility requirements. Bonus bets are non-withdrawable. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. See BetMGM.com for Terms. US promotional offers not available in New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER (Available in the US) Call 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY) Call 1-800-327-5050 (MA) 21+ only. Please Gamble Responsibly. Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP (AZ), 1-800-BETS-OFF (IA),1-800-981-0023 (PR). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I've never seen a human being swing a golf club as hard as I've, and I've seen John Daley. Franny's a big dude, man, and he's got whatever it is, 260, I don't want to disrespect you, I'm saying 260, 28, what? That's pretty disrespectful right now. Great start, coach. As a performer player, 260, how dare you. Like it. There's the music. Time for another edition of The Triple Option, presented by Wendy's. Two faves for just seven bucks.

Gotta be Wendy's. Terms apply as always. Thanks for joining us. Rate, subscribe over there at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you find your podcasts. You can find us on social media at 3XOptionShow. New episodes every Wednesday on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.

Rob Stone, or Rob Stone, or Rob Stone, or Rob Stone, or Rob Stone, or Rob Stone, or Rob Stone, or Rob Stone, or Rob Stone, or Rob Stone, Subscribe over there at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you find your podcast. You can find us on social media at 3X option show new episodes every Wednesday on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts, Rob Stone, Urban Meyer. Where's our boy? Where's our boy Deuce Deuce? You know where Deuce Deuce is, don't you coach? He's going to know NOLA, right? He's a NOLA man. He is running around unsupervised in New Orleans. So we'll get him back. But man, I know we're in the offseason coach. But this is just a testament to how strong this college football product is these days, there is no offseason, right? There is

constant discussion and conversation going on throughout college football. And I think the big talking point right now is all about the national champions and how they are absolutely getting gutted in the coaching department. The Ohio State over the course of the last couple days, if you will, lost their offensive coordinator, Chip Kelly, their defensive coordinator, Jim Knowles, to a rival, Penn State.

They lost the assistant offensive line coach. They lost the head offensive line coach. They lost the assistant QB coach. Are there any coaches I'm missing? And are there any coaches left? This is to be expected but on some level coach it feels borderline unparalleled It's not Unparalleled at all Rob. It's it's a it's a way of life It's something that I dealt with firsthand every year we'd lose to you know, every two years

We lost a coordinator on offense usually on defense as well. And I, I made a list, every one, almost every one became a head coach at some point. So reality is that Lou Holtz used to always say there's two types of coaches, Rob, ones that people want and ones that people don't. And there's really a big swath in between there, but there's a lot of reality of that. And Ohio state had a magical year, you know, with the, the obviously the one loss that haunted them. But I mean that run, the offensive, uh, coaching staff, the defense coaching

staff, the way they do things and you're, you're not even hearing about what's going on behind the scene, whether it be physical therapists, whether it be strength coach, assistant strength coaches, uh, training staff, academic staff. Uh, I mean, I can go on and on and on and on, but the infrastructure, uh, fortunately Ohio state has the resources and, uh, that's reality. And I've dealt with it. And the losing a great player is expected because great players are fluid.

You know, they come and go, you know, it's, it's this, the way it works, you know, you get them for three years and they go the NFL draft. When you lose a great coach, man, I'll tell you what that I lost a couple of that. I mean, it was kind of sucker punch that it took me a while to recover. And then if you don't replace that great coach, the wear and tear on the head coach is overwhelming and we can speak to that. So when you're a head coach at an elite institution that wins on a regular basis, right? You know people are going to come for you, right?

Because clearly, you know, the resume is there, right? You're a winner, you've been part of a winning program. Come do that with us. As a head coach, knowing that these defections are eventually coming, how do you pre-plan? How do you buffer your program from really taking a sucker punch, taking a real strong hit so you're able to reload in the coaching department

for the next season? You know, when I met with Bill Belichick in 05, and it was just starting because I was a Bowling green and I left, I lost my offense coordinator, became the head coach of bowling green. My defense coordinator stayed and ended up becoming the head coach of Toledo. So boom, right away I started feeling it. I go to the university, Utah. We went to titles and my offense coordinator becomes the head coach at

UNLV and I lose my defense coordinator, a guy named Kyle, Woodingham becomes the head coach. So that's boom, boom. And I go visit with, uh, uh, Bella check and he kept doing this and he kept saying per exp, you know, promote from within the menu, you start bringing outsiders into the inside. You're asking for problems. And I've experienced that as well. And so I would always, from that point forward, I went on the co-coordinator

rampage, which means I would have Dan Mullin as my offense coordinator. But then Steve Adagio is right behind him on defense at Charlie Strong and Greg Madison as co-coordinators with the anticipation that one would leave. And then I would just keep, I'd keep moving them up from within. And that worked to a degree, but the reality is that, you know, how about these names, Greg Brandon, uh, offense coordinator at Bowling Green becomes head coach, Mike Sanford, offense coordinator at Utah becomes head coach UNLV, Dan Mullin, Steve Adazio goes to Temple, Tom Herman goes to Houston and

Texas, Kevin Wilson, who ended up going to Tulsa and then Ryan Day becomes the head coach. Those are all my offensive coordinators and how fast that they just moved on. First of all, I hired really good guys, but, uh, yeah, take some credit coach, right? You're, you're doing something right. And your coaching tree is what people want to, they want to tap into that, right? They, they want to, they want to take one of those saplings from your coaching tree and make it their own.

And then Tim Beck on defense, Kyle Winingham, he became head coach at Illinois after Toledo, Kyle Winingham, Charlie Strong, obviously Louisville in Texas, Coach Fickle, who's now with Wisconsin, Chris Ash went to Rutgers and then obviously Greg Ciano. So we've had a nice one. We can do a whole podcast on coaches you've lost. So here's what I want to hit though. This is really intriguing.

So you need a way, you need a systematic way to do this. And I came up with this one through five and actually spoke to a corporate, a client, the other day, and I shared this with them and they, the response has been phenomenal. They're going to the system. So there's, you have your whole swath of, you have a whole you know, this big group of employees and how do you manage that? How do you manage in a systematic way to evaluate it and also pay them? Because every one of these people now, back in the day, they didn't, everyone has agents. And what's the agent's job? And I get it. It's to get the very most for their client, their, their, their people,

inflate the market, make sure they're being valued and make sure they're being paid their values. So I came up with one through five. A five is elite. Ryan Day's a five. Dan Mullen was a five. Charlie Strong's a five. Uh, I think you get my point.

Kyle Whittingham is a five. It's five as you can get. And so when I would meet year and meeting with the athletic director, I think you get my point. Kyle Whittingham is a five as five as you can get. And so when I would meet year and meeting with the athletic director, I would show the, this, the system. He actually most eighties went to this as well. And a five means we're not losing the five. That means it's going to kick it. Very expensive for you.

We're not going to lose that five. And I need you to help me not lose that five of four. We can negotiate and have a conversation. A three, it's time to move on. A two, a two doesn't survive. You know, a one, a one, we don't have ones or twos. Those ones or twos don't survive it as you can imagine. But if it's a five, the only way you leave is to be a head coach.

And I think Ryan Day still does the same thing, but that's a systematic way. But I did that for our training staff too. We have physical therapists there. I know he Day still does the same thing, but that's a systematic way. But I did that for our training staff too. We have physical therapists there. I know he's still there. Stu, you can't lose that guy. He's a five. Our players trust him. You want to, you want to screw up a team, hire a idiot trainer, hired, uh,

someone they don't trust in the, with their bodies and take care of them. You want, you want to really screw up a program? You have a four or three as a weight coach. You want, you want to really screw up a program? You have a four or a three as a weight coach. You're, you're in trouble. Yeah. So you have to really go through and make sure there's legitimate fives at the top of the pyramid and each one of your corresponding, uh, uh, compartment, uh, departments.

And, and that's what we did. And, and what happens is also the coach knows, because I meet with, would meet with a coach, you're a four. I would have them self-evaluate, then I'd evaluate them. And we, it was sometimes uncomfortable conversations. And, you know, in this day and age where the money is, you know, there is a day man, when guys are making $25,000, $30,000. So it really didn't matter.

Now you're talking, there's a lot of zeros behind some of these paychecks. Commas, comm guys are making 25, $30,000, so it really didn't matter. Now you're talking, there's a lot of zeros behind some of these paychecks. Yeah, commas, commas are involved. So you really, you really wanna make sure they're evaluated, they understand where they are, and then also the people that you have to go get the increase in salaries understand that. So it's expected, but it's uncomfortable.

A couple of details I want you to further elaborate on. Maybe there's a couple of stories because there's so many levels and layers to this. Number one, all right, you're talking about you wanna try to hire ideally within, okay? And I get it, but obviously at some point you might look at those withins are threes or three and a half not quite your fours and fives, right?

So how did you go about the course of a season tracking, you know, like I know ADs, right? ADs have that little drawer in their desk and they pull out the slip and they say, hey, if Urban Meyer leaves today, here's my top three college football head coaches that I'm gonna go after for candidates. Did you have a little drawer

and some of the names that you would keep, whether it was players or coaches you coached against, or guys you've run across through the years, or guys you've lost that you want to try a bullback. How did you, I guess, quote unquote, go outside of the program and track those, those type of coaching talents? A great question.

And how you did it is when I was young, you knew everybody. So I had my A's, B's and C's, or five, fours, threes. And when I, I'll never forget when I got the Florida job, I called the dream team. I went after every great coach I worked with. You know, Greg Madison was one of the first phone calls. We worked together at Notre Dame, still one of his greatest coaches, Steve Adazio and Charlie Strong. And it was the dream team came together.

And, but then as you get older, all those dream teamers are either retired or head coaches. And now you rely older, all those dream teamers are either retired or head coaches. And now you're relying on people. And that's where it really gets uncomfortable when people are calling you. And I would never take someone's recommendation without the first question. I asked, have you worked with that person? And if it's a no, then thanks for calling. It's usually a friend.

Thanks for calling, but this is too important. I'm sorry. I got to go get, I got to find out. And I've made some really good hires. I only made a couple mistakes and not bad people, just a couple of mistakes. So it's, it's your, your comment there is really, really hard. Everybody's got agents. Everybody has, you know, there's a reason why they're pushing this guy.

And that that's, it's, I mean, that's, I'm telling you what you watch, you watch next year. And I got to do this on big noon when team struggle, you blame the player obviously, but you know what, behind the scenes, why is this player not playing as good as he did the year before? I can help you. They probably had a coaching chain and there's something going on there and that player is not performing at the level because there's some distrust, which it's usually distrust or the, the way they're trained or something's going on and you see this player's performance

start to dip and that's a major problem. Another thing I want to hit Rob real quick. And this is the whole, and, and, you know, hire from what, when you've got a solid rock of an organization, Ryan Day days got a rock right now. Uh, I would imagine Sarkeesian, you know, some of these guys have built their programs, the infrastructures. You know, what happens when you want to hire a lead coach, they want to do it their way, and that is really hard.

And to the point where I actually would put signs around the wall, enhance the program. And that means do not change. I, I, and I can, we can have a seven hour conversation on that, but you can't change what we are. The courts are the core values, the way we go about our business, the way we work, the way we practice, you hire people that do it differently and they keep, you know, they keep, let's change this, let's change.

And I would always say, don't use the word change. If you want to say a better way of doing it, then show me and let's do it. And that became exhausting to me. And the reason a person's a five when you go higher a five, because they're really good at what they do. It might be completely different than what you do. And that's when you start to see the conflict. I had a few of those where you're just constant, constant, and you're like, enough, enough.

So I think that's really good for the viewer, listener, to hear that, because I'm sure people deal with that. Coach, there has to be a couple guys out there that you wanted, that you swung hard for. And for whatever reason, you couldn't get them on that dotted line. Who are some of those guys that you always wanted to have on your staff or be associated with?

I wish I was ready for this. I'm sorry, Rob, it takes me, oh man. Yeah, there was a couple assistant coaches along our journey that went on to be great coaches. I, you catch me off guard, so I don't, that would make a nice headline if I could think of it right now, but maybe I will as we continue.

We'll get you next time. Winners attract winners, right? And you go back a couple of years, and I know you're a big baseball guy, right? And, and you had the fortune to connect with Joe Madden after he won the world series with the Cubs. I'm a huge Joe Madden guy, but I'm a Tampa Bay Rays guy. So what he did and how he transformed that franchise,

you know, I'm forever indebted to him. But what were some of the words in the conversations the two of you guys had about winning a national title and then how everything kind of changes? Yeah, I was just with Rizzo at we played a golf tournament and then also Dexter, Dexter, and they played for the Cubs, uh, national champion or the world championship. So every year we'd go to, uh, Joe Matt and I became friends with it with the

Rays he'd actually went to a couple of Gator games and I bring my son Nate down there, we became really close and he's a different duck, but I love the guy. And, uh, he wanted a winner. Uh, so I went to go visit them for about four straight years at the Cubs. I just love the Chicago Cubs. I love Wrigley Field and my son and my family. Usually the whole family went. We'd actually sit in the dugout. We'd walk out in the field, you know, and there was a rain delay one time and Joe Manai would go sit back in his office. He invites me back in his office.

He opens up a bottle of red wine during a rain delay. I love baseball, right? You can pull that off in base, but in those in 16, he won the world series. And I couldn't wait to go see him in 17. And sure enough in 17, I come walking in. Uh, I came walking in Dexter Fowler is who I was with. I come walking in and he's miserable. And I look at him, I say, what's what?

He goes, I got the same team. Everybody's back, but it's just different. Coaching. These guys are much harder. It's just, everybody changes when you win it all. And I started thinking back to my 08 team, my 08 national champion, Florida Gator team had everybody back. We went 12 and 0 the next year, but it was not fun. It was, it was, it was, it was hard coaching, man.

Everybody changed. We won the NASC championship 14. We had the majority of that team come back 15 and it was the Zeke Elliott's and Bosa's and they're all back. We're preseason number one. And we went, well, again, went 12 and 0, I think, or 13 and one that year. But it was so much different. And I think coach day is going to have to get ready.

And we've already spoke about it. Everything's different. And I think I put it on this is we're all, we're all human. You gots to get yours is the way I looked at it. Everybody, everybody now has representation. I get it. I mean, it. Everybody, everybody now has representation. I get it. I mean, it's what makes America great is capitalism. You're on the top of the food chain right now.

And what does your agent or what do you start looking at other places? How can I better, you know, this is the once in a lifetime. We just want a national championship and the players changed. The coach had changed the staff changes. And when I saw Joe Madden's face in at Wrigley field, I remember sitting there going, damn, I remember that feeling. You're on top of the world and you're still on top of the world. I believe the Cubs were still in first place when I went to see them, but you

can tell the wear and tear on him because it's just, it's, it's different. The red wine replaced by a bottle of Pepto Bismol, perhaps. Let's go back talking about Ohio State and the coordinator situation real quick. I want to wrap it up here. But this fact is amazing. Jim Knowles, who's now the defensive coordinator at Penn State, but when he was in charge of the Ohio State defense, remember, they played seven top 10 opponents, held them to an average

of 19.2 points per game. 19.2 points per game against top 10 teams. No team has scored more than 32 points against the Buckeyes in the last 29 games. And that made us do a that made us do a double take try Wendy's two for seven deal today. To me, that was a stunning move. And I know it's a big number, right? It's a big number that one of your rivals threw. And it's sort of like, if you can't beat them, buy them. Right?

But you know there's gonna be turnover coming. Do you think Ryan Day thought that there would be this much turnover in his coaching staff this year that he's seeing already? And who knows? You know, there's always that talk about Larry Johnson, one of the all-time great defensive line coaches. Larry is 73 years old.

He's also the associate head coach. You know, at any time, and there had been some talk about it, that he could be moving on from that position. But to the point, do you think Ryan Day anticipated this much turnover in his coaching staff after winning the title? I think it is for this is his first year of winning the title so I would probably say no. I would probably say he anticipated maybe some stuff happening but when you start the three most important coaches on your coaching staff are the coordinators and your offensive line coach and your fourth is probably Your D line coach slash maybe the secondary coach. That's those are ones you miss on those coaches spots. You lose games immediately

I mean those are all spots that Ohio State has to fill now almost depending on Larry Johnson, right and and remember to replace a five with a five, you're gonna bring in someone who's gonna want, and that's why you gotta have these hard conversations when you interview and say, we're not changing. Make us a little bit better. And I get pissed when I think about it because a couple of times it just wore me out with that.

But when you hire, and I think from the triple option, from this point forward, when you hire a five, think from the, the triple option from this point forward, when you hire a five, five is going to bring stuff with it. And he's a five for a reason. And so you, as the head coach got to let him do his deal, but then all of a sudden things start looking differently. And, and the culture is the culture, the way you run the offense, the way you run the defense, obviously they were great on both to start changing things.

I don't know, man. He's got to be careful. And I actually spoke with coach I don't know, man. He's got to be careful. And I actually spoke with coach day this week and, uh, he's got to play a smart dude. He's got a plan. Um, and he's, you know, he's, he's a strong coach. So, but he got to be real firm with enhancing the program, not changing. So he's, he's got to, I can't, uh, I don't know where he's going to go with it. I knew one that he was, uh, kind of leaning. I don't think that's still in where he's going to go with it. I knew one that he was kind of leaning.

I don't think that's still in play. So we'll see what happens. Enhance, enhance, enhance. Find those fives baby. Find those fives. They're not easy to find coach. You may have heard there's, there's this kind of big football game going down this Sunday. Yeah.

Super bowl champion, pro and college football hall of famer, Dwight Freeney, your golfing buddy who apparently can rip it from the tees. He joins us next on the Triple Option presented by Wendy's. Looking to simplify? How about the simple sounds of neutral vodka soda with zero gram sugar per can for the next 15 seconds. Neutral. Refres refreshingly simple. Welcome back to The Triple Option presented by Wendy's Rob Stone, Urban Meyer.

We are now joined by a Super Bowl champion, a college and pro football Hall of Famer, a proud former Connecticut resident, a guy who did his college in upstate New York. But Dwight, you and I are like one in the same except for completely different. Dwight Freehne joins us right now on the triple option. Good to have you here. You and urban were running together just a couple days ago. Is that right? Oh, absolutely. Me and him were on that golf course struggling together. You know, we bled together on that on that course,

man. It was not easy. Well, Dwight, we've done it twice now, and every time I see your name show up and I love to play with you. However, I'm gonna go on record, Rob, that this is the, I've never seen a human being swing a golf club as hard as I've, and I've seen John Daly, and I mean,

not just the club head speed, but Franny's a big dude, man, and he's got whatever it is to I don't want to disrespect you. I'm saying 260 to 8 what That's pretty disrespectful It depends on what you're looking I mean look as a performer player 260 how dare you, as a performer, player 260, how dare you? But as a retired athlete, thank you, I appreciate it. I'm not in the gym right now, all right? What are you, what do you weigh? You gotta go up a little bit. You're like 20 pounds, you're 20 pounds short. So whatever it is, all right, we're gonna throw 280.

The torque and the movement, the ground shakes a little bit. And we play with these LPG errors, uh, and they are incredible. I'd rather play with the LPGA than the, than the big boys, cause the big boys just hit it too far and I love playing with those girls at the Hilton grand vacation, but enjoyed playing with you. And, uh, he's also a, he's Michael Jordan's partner on some of those matches that grow the legendary matches at Grove 23 and he said he's got a day job tomorrow what times your day job start tomorrow I get there at 845 we tee off

by 9915 latest and it's the fastest 36 holes in golf, right? Don't blink. Don't blink. You know, don't you barely talk. You go ahead and hit your ball and keep moving. Were you playing were you playing growing up in Bloomfield, Connecticut or up at Syracuse or is this a post NFL thing? Well, this this was you know, something that I kind of got into towards the, I guess, mid, mid, mid part of my career. You know, it wasn't my first couple years, but, you know, once I got into like year four or five or whatever, you know, I wanted to pick something up and, you know, golf was

sitting right there. There's not much, no offense to Indianapolis, but there wasn't much going on, you know, for me there, other than those great, beautiful golf courses. And, uh, you know, the rest is history. I started there and I continued on. Obviously it's super bowl week and, and, uh, me and you had a conversation. I was at your championship game in 2006 over, over the bears and, uh, that rainstorm that hit I was actually, they were Charlie strong. That was a month after we won our national championship. So let's go watch him. So here you are, you're a sack leader, you're Hall of Famer, you're a grown ass man getting ready to go play in the Super Bowl. It's the week before.

I can only imagine it's tenfold, hundredfold, thousandfold what a college player getting ready for that national championship game. Plus those guys are 17 to 19. What do you recall about the championship, about that week, about, we're getting ready to go make history. What do you remember? Was it, it's another game,

or was it reality that this is not another game? Well, I think, you know, you're fooling yourself if you try to convince yourself it's just another game. It isn't just another game. It's that game that you've dreamt about, that you prepared for, the top of the mountain, the thing that you've put every off-season workout towards. All the sacrifices are near and it all comes down to this one moment, which comes

a lot of anxiety, a lot of sleepless nights. You would play the next day, the day after you win the AFC championship, you would play the next day because you know, by the third time, I went there three times, you had two weeks, right? It's the longest two weeks ever. Yeah, because because you just want to get it over with. You want to get there, you want to hurry up. But it's one of those moments that, you know, you have to just take, take it all in, you know, and that's why you should tell all the young

guys, take it all in, you know, because you never know when you're gonna if you're ever going to get back. So live in the moment. It is technically just another game, but not really. So let's not fool yourselves. And it's going to be ups and downs. You're not going to always, it's not going to all be blowing the guys out.

You're going to mess up and you're going to have to face some adversity. But if you put the work in, which most of us to get to that point you did, the good things will happen in that game. What was that moment in the week or two weeks leading up to the Super Bowl that confirmed to you that this is not just another game? No, I mean, it starts from the moment you win.

You got the ticket requests. And I would just say, before any guy, I'm sure they're going through it. If you have a significant other, let her handle that. All right, because you got everybody from who knows who that you hadn't talked to in 10, 15 years, hitting you up for Super Bowl tickets, the hotel accommodations,

everything that you go into that week is just amplified. Every single moment, I'm talking practice, the media attention that you have to give, all the little sites that you have to visit while you're there. You know, the coaching staff, if they do a good job, they keep you away from that and try to keep you closer to your routine as possible.

But it's still impossible because, you know, they have obligations that they have to, that we committed to as an organization and a team. You have to, you have to kind of grow the game. So you have to go out there in front of the camera, even if you're not a camera guy, you know, so it's a lot going on into that game. We normally as players can't wait until kind of like that Wednesday, Thursday of the game week, because that becomes more of what we're used to. But that whole week that just left,

oh my God, you could have it. Yeah. Hey, let's talk about Joe Momotar for a minute. And I know everyone realizes you were part of that. Paul Pasquolone, Kevin Rogers, Steve D'Azio, Donovan McNabb, that was when Syracuse, there was time Syracuse top five program. You've hired his young cat, Fran Brown.

I don't know him, but I love his bravado. I love the fact that he's going after people. I remember, I think he told one coach, keep our name out of your mouth or something. And then you take Kyle McCord and, you know, he said, I'ma buy Ryan Day a bottle of champagne or something like that. But here's a guy that I think uh, you know, he said, I'm a bye Ryan day, a bottle of champagne or something like that. But here's a guy that I think every, you know, a program like a Syracuse.

They need something, you know, they're not always going to get the five star athletes, so you get a five star coach, a guy that's going to go out there and he's going to put his cleats in the ground against anybody. I see the players following his lead. What do you see out of Fran Brown? Yeah, I mean, Fran is an amazing guy, first of all. He's a real guy. And what I mean by that is there's no BS.

He's one of those guys who will tell you exactly how he feels. No filter, I mean a little filter, but no real filter. And I think a lot of guys can gravitate to that. A lot of kids can gravitate to that. A lot of kids can gravitate to that. Just the realness that you hear from his voice and how he acts and how he talks. You have, sometimes you run into coaches who give you coach talk, let's just call it.

And it's just not the real. If you suck, say I sucked. And that's just what it is. If I was great, tell me I was great. But don't sugarcoat it and all those types of things because it's not helping me. And I think that's kind of the type of guy that he is, you know, he keeps it real with the players. He connects really well with the youth, you know, the, the, the youth can see the players can see probably themselves in him a little bit because of the age and he's a little bit closer to maybe age-wise being in his 40s younger coach than somebody who was

in their 60s or whatever it is so I think a lot of players kind of can relate to him. Ten win season they open up the campaign in August in Atlanta against Tennessee right a chance to make a statement right out of the gates next season. What is your involvement level with the Syracuse football program right now? Well, it's actually more than it's ever been. You know, it's been kind of interesting.

You know, as an NFL player being in a locker room, we had this thing called, you know, man law bet. All right. And what that basically was is, you know, whatever school you went to, if somebody else in the locker room went to that same school, you have to put you have to bet $100 regardless of you know, they're playing a non someone just walks up to you today, you're mad 100 we won. And I remember for about 10 year period, I would run my ass away from anybody I knew

trying to hop. When is Florida State week? When is Clemson week? Run for the hills. Listen, I am going to be missing in action. If I see that guy coming down the hallway, I'm going the other way until at least that week is over with. Because once the week is over with, they can't come and get that 100.

It's too late. You ran out of time. So that's got how it's been for me. But as of late, if I was still playing, oh, I'm gonna walk up to every single guy, let's go. Remember, there's a bet this week, but it's great to see it, you know, and I'm gonna be involved a little bit more

in the organization. You know, I talk to Fran from time to time, whatever he needs, you know, Bruce Smith told me one time, you know, hey, look, all the knowledge that he has is in for him to hold on to is to share with others. And I really believe that honestly, so there's something that I could help one of these young hash rushes D lineman or D coordinator, whatever it is, to help my team, my school get back to being where we think that we should be at. I'll do it.

So what does Syracuse need to do to get back up being where we think that we should be at, I'll do it. So what does Syracuse need to do to get back up and into that conversation and in the day and age that we're in right now to get into the college football playoff conversation? Well, I just think it's consistency. You know, you have to have some consistency from a coaching perspective and the players perspective knowing what they what the standard is. I mean, A, B, you have to have the guys, you have to be able to recruit the guys. And I think now it's a little bit different.

Obviously with all the money that's getting thrown around, so you're gonna have to have a little cash somewhere to be able to entice those types of players to come to your school. But once you get there, it's still about X's and O's. It's about who works harder. And there's been a lot of guys who hadn't been highly recruited and made big things happen in the college game and the pro game and

our Hall of Famous. So it, you know, it doesn't matter if you're a, you know, five star or whatever, it's about the work that you put in. And if you don't have the coaching staff and the people around you and that system that you can go in and you can kind of grow as a player, then it don't matter. And you could be whatever you want to be, but you're not going to turn out to be anything. You know, we had a great conversation on the golf course about the three-four versus a four-three, Dwight.

That was incredible. And the four-three defense, Dwight Trini, you're a Hall of Famer because of it. They would have stuck you in a three, four. You would have probably figured a way to still be great. But as an offensive coach, and you agreed with this, that was interesting when we talked, as an offensive coach, the one defense

I did not wanna see was the three, four. Getting ready, the multiplicity of all the different looks, the stand up, there's so many different variations of the defense. If it was four or three, you knew where they're at. The problem I had every year, every January, I told you every February we reevaluate and I said, screw it. I'm going to go to a three, four.

And then all of a sudden I'm looking, I got Bosa, Bosa, Chase Young, Sam Hubbard, Taekwon Lewis, Jalen Holmes. And those cats don't want to play, you know, near the end of your career. You told me the story. Here's, here's the guy's got a hundred sacks. He's going to be a future hall of famer. And they bring in someone. They said, Hey, we're going to move you to a three, four, which means Rob,

he's going to be standing up. And the look on Dwight's face on about the 16th hole when he was telling me about he's like, wait, what in the hell? I, I'm not going to do this. You know, he obviously is respectful. And then he started to work his way. Hey, do you mind if I get in a stance? Tell us that quick story about the three-four.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, look, I mean, I was already well established in my career, and it was me and Robert Mathis. And then all of a sudden, you got a new regime, new GM, and they wanted to switch up our entire defense. And I'm not saying that our defense was, you know, the greatest all the way around. But you know, we had some cornerstones that should probably have stayed in the same position that they've always played.

And you know, they decided, hey, you know what, let's go to a three, four scheme. And it became, okay, so what does that really mean? Oh, no, Dwight, you know what, let's go to a three, four scheme. And it became, okay, so what does that really mean? Oh no, Dwight, you need to stand up. Okay. I've never stood up before, but okay. I'll do that coach, whatever you want, whatever you ask, I'm going to do it. I'm not that guy. I'm going to sit there and say, hell no, I'm not doing it. Pick some, no, I'm listening. You asked me to do something. I'm going to try. Well, I got in the stance, three, four stance. And if you don't know about defensive lineman and what they look at

and what they key, we have blinders on. Okay, we are focused on kind of, you know, the line that offensive tackle that guard the ball, and that's all we see, you know, you can't really see it all. But when you stand us up, all of a sudden, you're seeing all this stuff that you've never seen before. Here comes that motion. Here comes the tight end, all this stuff. And then we have to keep it off into tackle.

So if you're not really used to that, it becomes you're seeing too much. And what happened is, while I was going through this process of trying to change who I was into something else, I kind of stumbled over that a little bit to where though I had to ask the coach, Hey, can I put my hand back down on the ground so that I can get focused and get the get off that I know I got and all that rather than standing up and trying to figure out how I get off the ball that way.

But look, that works great when it's a pass and you're rushing, but it doesn't work so great when it's a pass and you're dropping. So I think it wasn't probably the system for me. And we had some tough times and probably that's what ended up happening was I ended up leaving the team that next year. You know, they didn't resign me. I understand why because they wanted a three, four guy. It wasn't me. Can we talk about one of my favorite human beings, Tony Dungy? And I had the great fortune to be just a be a cub reporter back in Tampa, Florida, when when Coach Dungy took over the Buccaneers and, and I was in there with the previous regime.

And then I was in there with the Dungy years. And that's sap and Derek Brooks, and all stat and John Lynch. I mean, just some legendary humans in that program and the way he changed that program, the way he changed that locker room still resonates with me and his calm, quiet demeanor and the amount of respect that he doesn't ask for but you feel like he is owed immediately. I say the words Tony Dungey to you. What comes to your mind? I mean, you kind of described it. He transvents the position of the coach, and he goes to a whole other level of father figure. It's not just about football.

He's one of those coaches that I don't have a whole bunch, you know, it's not just about football, you know, and, you know, he's one of those coaches that I don't have a whole bunch of these guys, but, you know, he was one of those coaches where when you messed up, you're upset, not just because you personally just messed up, you're messed up. And you've you let the coach down, because he's that type of guy where you would do anything for him. How did he do it? I still don't I don't know how he did it. Dwight. It's the reason an aura it's a it's his presence. I don't know what it was. It's just that he treated everybody like men, man, he didn't feel like he needed to scream and yell at you. You know,

and this is such a, you know, type of, I don't know what would you call it kind of militaristic type of game that we play where, you know, it's't know, what would you call it? Kind of militaristic type of game that we play where, you know, it's coaches screaming, yelling, dog cussing you out, because it is aggressive game. And most coaches do that. And he was one of those guys that never felt like he needed to, he's not going to call you out your name. He's just going to say, Hey, you know what, son, this may not be for you, we'll get somebody else. It's okay. And it's just, and it's okay that way. You can still get a lot done

and treat everybody with complete utmost respect, you know? And some coaches like to yell and scream. Maybe they just can't help themselves. It is what it is. I mean, I've had both. And I'm not saying anything's tremendously wrong with the guy who likes to yell and scream. Maybe that's how he decides he wants

to motivate his players. Tony never had to do that. He could motivate those guys just based on treating them all like men. And if you were walking down the street, he wouldn't yell and scream at you then. And the coaches probably wouldn't yell and scream at a stranger. You would just probably talk to the man just how you say, hey, how you doing? Oh, no, sir. That's not how you're supposed to do it. Whatever it is, just like a man. And that's how he talked to everybody. And that's what we respected about him is just because, you know, just because he had a coach and he was the head coach, he didn't

have to treat us any differently. And then men, he didn't have to talk down to us. Back to Super Bowl week with coach Dungey, how did he approach that, that buildup? Did you notice anything different or just some messaging that maybe might have been unique or wasn't in his normal conversation? Yeah, listen, man. Tony was just right here. Right here. Not too high, not too low. He stayed right there and it gave us confidence. It was anything new. He didn't make anything up.

All of a sudden he come out there yelling and screaming. No, that's not him. You know, and we respected that and it gives us confidence when coaches come, coaches who he is, and we're gonna be who we are. That's just how we do. All right, how did you become a golfing partner with Michael Jordan?

I gotta figure this one out. Tell me the genesis of this one, man. Basically, 2003, I think I got invited to his invitational that he used to have in the Bahamas. So this is usually around the time I kind of picked up a club once or twice. I got invited to his invitational and while I was there, I met one of his best friends. One of his best friends lived in Indianapolis. Obviously, I was playing for I met one of his best friends. One of his best friends lived in Indianapolis. Obviously, I was playing for Indianapolis. So his best friend comes up to me and says, hey, man, you know, big fan or da da da,

you know, and he's my friend, one of my best friends. Hey, man, we'll we'll be getting together here soon. So, okay, great. Played the tournament, whatever it was. And then the offseason came along and me and that best friend stayed in contact. And then so what happened is when they go on trips or wherever they used to go, they used to call the young guy, young kid, which was me 2004, 24, whatever I was. And you know, they'll tag along on the little trip, you know, whatever it is, you know, and that's how our relationship started to grow

was through his mutual friend, his best friend became one of my good friends. And they just called me along because I was basically his next door neighbor. So I would just tag along. And then that's how our relationship grew to where we are now. So when you're golfing with Jordan, do you have to come loaded with cash or is Zell and Venmo accepted? You don't have to answer that Dwight. Plead the fifth. Personal check. Zelle and Venmo accepted. You don't have to answer that Dwight, plead the fifth. Personal check. No, I'm definitely plead the fifth.

But in this way, it's definitely an old school type of, you know, I've never heard anybody use Zelle. You know, Zelle or any electronic type of payment system. And if you are using that, you're probably not gonna be here alone at the club. So you might as well take a picture because you probably won't see the course again. So just come with cash.

Oh man. Coach, what's the sound effect when Dwight is on the tee box? It's not just the, well, usually when you play with someone that swings that hard, you hear the, you know, you hear the, you know, the wind and how fast he swings. And then obviously the ball sounds like an explosion. That's not even it. It's the torque.

It's the, he almost comes off the ground. And the first, I tried to not watch it because then it just, you know, especially if I have to go, when she was playing, so much better me that day. So I just, I'm like, damn, I gotta follow that again. And I just, the ground's still shaking., I'm like, damn, I gotta follow that again. And I just, the ground's still shaking and I'm like, what did I just watch?

Yeah. No, it's great. I'll tell you what, there's not a better guy to play with and hang with than Dwight Freehny, man. I love the dude. So great hanging with you, man. Amen. Same here, boss.

Dwight, thanks for joining us this week on Super Bowl week. Plenty more Super Bowl conversation to come up on the triple option, but Dwight Freehny, man. Thanks so much for taking on on Super Bowl week, plenty more Super Bowl conversation to come up on the Triple Option. But Dwight Friedman, thanks so much for taking time on Super Bowl week to join us on the Triple Option. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'll take care. Welcome back to the Triple Option presented by Wendy's, the Urban Meyer, Rob Stone back here with you, Mark Ingram.

We hope, right? We hope Deuce Deuce will make it out of New Orleans in good shape and he'll be back with us next week. Time now to talk about that big game in New Orleans with Pick Six brought to you by BetMGM. Place your money line prop parlay and same game parlay bets at BetMGM. Download the app today.

Please gamble responsibly. Again, these lines, as as always subject to change. So coach, here we go. Eagles taken on the Chiefs. We're gonna look to get involved in the action courtesy. Some of these numbers, some of these prop bets from Bet MGM. And one of the things folks love to bet on,

even if you're back home, like making those squares, like on the boards and everybody's putting in a couple bucks is the coin toss. Heads. The coin toss. a couple bucks is the coin toss, heads. The coin toss. We're talking about the coin. We're not talking playoffs, we're talking coin toss. Heads and tails, both at minus 102.

I'm curious, when you were a head coach, did you ever have superstitions where you told your captains, hey dude, it's gotta be heads every single time or we make way, way too much of this. I had a lot of superstitions and people would make fun of me because I'd always reach graphs and you know, because I was in

charge of kicking game and I would see which way the wind blows. Yeah. And they'd even laugh. We're playing in Indianapolis and I do it. And I always do the same thing. And people say, coach, you're inside. What are you doing? There's no wind. But and I look at them. They could have the heaters or the air conditioning on a little higher. Very superstitious but no I never when I was a captain in high school I called heads all I was a heads guy but not in I didn't mess with that I let the players that was their time and so no I didn't I didn't know people bet on that. That's great.

Oh, for sure. Coach, they'll find everything to bet on that bet MGM has got got loads and loads of stuff. But I do imagine though, that you said, hey, whether this was across the board or certain games, we want the ball first. If you win, we want this or we want that, right? Oh, sure. Yeah, every game I ever coached, you're gonna defer, the only times you didn't was weather or you're playing an inferior opponent.

You know, if you're playing weather, and I would have a weather report of if you saw something bad rolling in that second half, give me the ball, we're gonna go try to score. If you're playing an inferior opponent, you always wanna take the ball first because you just wanna, you know, you wanna go score and get your players, you know,

because in halftime, a lot of the times they don't play. I'm talking about real, real inferior. And that was the only two times. Other than that, you know, analytics and just the, you know, the idea of playing defense first, field position, especially if you've got a good defense. So that's what we'd always do. Okay. All right.

So we're going to move on from heads and tails. Let's talk about like a genuine MVP candidate and Saquon Barclay. Man, what he's been able to do. Averaging 168 yards per game in the playoffs. Bet MGM is setting his over under rushing at 126.5. They always throw that little 0.5 in there to really kind of screw with you. So 126.5 at They always throw that little.5 in there to really kind of screw with you. So

126.5 at minus 115. Wow. So do you think I went on, was it last week or two weeks ago when the Eagles were in the NSE Championship game and you guys all went with the commanders. You felt like the good vibes of Washington were continued. And I said, Saquon's going to run, baby. He's going to run all over. And he was the difference. So 126.5, if Philly is going to win this Super Bowl, they are going to win it because of Saquon Barkley. Kansas City knows it. They know they've got to take him away.

So I say he goes under. He's so talented. But I think so much of the Kansas City defensive focus is going to be on stopping Mr. Barkley. So I say he goes under 126 and a half. What about you? I'm saying under for two reasons. Spagnola, the defense coordinator of the Chiefs and then their D line coach Joe Cullen. Joe Cullen was with me as a coach as my coordinator. He's tremendous. You can stop the run.

I mean, this guy is a superhuman. I think they're gonna really dare them to throw the ball a lot and really stop this cat. I think I got it under, I think he's one of my favorite players. I coached against him for three years and every time we tackled him, he was just like, ooh, thank you.

Got him. Got him. And we actually did, we played him well. He had that opening kickoff against us. Yes he did. And I almost fired a kickoff covering coach, but that was myself. And I was the idiot that kicked the ball to him.

But other than that- Yeah, what are you thinking, man? That's not a decision a five makes. That's a two decision, buddy. That's a two decision. All right, let's get to the actual game. The Chiefs are favored by one and a half points two years ago. Remember, this is a rematch right two years ago, they beat the Eagles 38-25.

Coach in that game two years ago 115.1 million viewers for the Super Bowl. That was a then Super Bowl record. It was broken last year, right? The overtime win for the Chiefs over San Fran, 123.7 million viewers and that number could go up this Sunday and for those of us who are employed by Fox, let's hope it goes up. That's only good things for us. So Chiefs favored by one and a half. Patrick Mahomes going for his fourth Super Bowl win. All of this before he turns 30 years old. Andy Reid looking for his fourth Super Bowl as well. We're going to talk about the Andy Reid factor in a moment, but number one, Chiefs favored by one and a half. Do they cover and who do you like?

I mean, I stare at, is Vegas amazing? That when you have to double take it, you know, even the 126 when they, you know, where he's averaging 126.5 yards,.5 and it's the over-under is at 115. That makes you think, damn, that's right on that number. 1.5, I'm gonna go with the Chiefs. I just, again, I think the quarterback, my home's Andy Reid. I know the coaches, I know that defense coordinator,

and I know I actually talked to Joe Cullen yesterday, and I can tell in his voice that, you know, there's some, you know, they're going to get that third win, which is takes your breath away. Yeah. Yeah. I think the Chiefs take it as well, and they cover as well. And I think it's probably going to be by close to double digits. How about that? Let's talk about, and I know, I think the chiefs take it as well and they cover as well. And I think it's probably gonna be by close to double digits, how about that?

Let's talk about, I know, I know. Let's talk about Andy Reed and this relationship that he has with Patrick Mahomes. And you and I were talking about in our production crew earlier, there is a resemblance as far as a conversation is concerned with Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. Those two are forever intertwined as being a team, particularly a team that wins multiple Super Bowls.

Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes are going to be there as well. But the numbers relay a different story, Coach. I'm going to bark these numbers out to you and I'm curious what comes to the top of your head. So Andy Reid with Mahomes, as you would expect, spectacular. 106, just 26 losses, three Super Bowl titles. Think about that. 106 wins, three Super Bowl titles, just 26 losses.

Andy Reid without Patrick Mahomes, not as good, but not awful by any stretch. 195 and 136, 13 playoff appearances, one Super Bowl appearance. All right. So obviously the numbers look better with Mahomes as we would all expect. Bill Belichick, Tom Brady, the two of them together six Super Bowl wins, which is I can't even believe that's a sentence. 249 wins 75 defeats. Bill Belichick now the head coach at the University of North Carolina without Fox Sports broadcaster Tom Brady. He is 83 and 104. So a pretty big swing. You hear those numbers and what jumps out at you to hold on, hold on before I get the expert.

Here's what jumps out to me. Quarterback matters. You got to have an elite quarterback to win Super Bowls. Otherwise it is really, really hard. And yeah, there's a couple of exceptions out there. You know, this is no offense to the Trent Dilferers or the Brad Johnsons of the world, right? But these are not guys that we're talking about going into the Hall of Fame.

Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes, we are talking about Hall of Fame type caliber cats. And that's why every program, every NFL team is always after a quarterback, whether they desperately need one or they only kind of need one or they might need one down the road. So you hear those numbers, read with and without Mahomes,

Belichick with and without Brady, what jumps out? Well, I remember Coach Belichick, I'm from Cleveland, Ohio, and he was a coach of the Browns and that didn't go great. And then obviously when Tom Brady left the Patriots, it didn't go great. And Tom Brady wins a world championship for the Tampa Bay team. I know both, fairly well.

The one thing is Alex Smith played for my guy, played for coach Reed at, uh, Kansas city. So I got, I used to ask questions and he would tell me about him. And I saw Alex Smith who he did, he did okay under North Turner as an OC at the 49ers, but really other than that, not been do much because the program wasn't very good. He goes to Kansas City and he takes off. Uh, it becomes, you know, an excellent player in the national football league.

Actually, I believe tutored Patrick Mahomes, a young Patrick Mahomes. So the reality is when you say coach Belichick is not the same coach without Tom Brady, I'd say, well, of course not. My God, what are you talking about? Tom Brady is the greatest of all time and I can see that. So is it, is it player or coach? It's both, but of course it's player. But I'm going to say this, there's a lot of great players that have never lifted up that Lombardi trophy.

And so the minute you start just saying player, player, player, I get it. And I'm not disagreeing because the opposite's impossible. The op, you know, a great coach without great players, but a great player with a mediocre coach or not a very good coach, it might be able to be done, but not really. Yeah. I think it's fair assessment. That to be done, but not really. Yeah. I think that's a fair assessment. That's a fair assessment, but peanut butter jelly.

You see Belichick wants to call it the Tom Brady trophy instead of the Lombardi trophy? That was pretty cool. Yeah, I could buy that or give it a slash, right? Give it to both of them. I mean, that's really interesting because you do want to honor the history and the past, but guess what?

Tom Brady is part of the history of the NFL and he is the Super Bowl. Who knows? Maybe it'll be the Lombardi, Brady, Mahomes, Reid trophy. Let me say this. If this kid wins this Super Bowl, the world's going to change. I mean, he is now officially right in that same conversation. Officially. He's not far off now. And he's not 30. He's not far off now. And he's not 30. He's not 30. Not 30, man.

And he didn't win a bunch of games at Texas Tech. I mean, that's where I'm like, what are we doing? So, I think it's interesting, man. Talent is everywhere, man. Talent is everywhere. Make sure to follow, subscribe, rate us on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts, as well as across social media at 3X Option Show. Reminder, submit your questions,

anything you've been wanting to ask Mark or Coach or myself, we are going to start firing up the mailbag segments coming up in the future. So please send us your questions. As always, thank you to our great sponsors, Wendy's and BetMGM and we will see you post Super Bowl next week on The Triple Option presented by Wendy's.