The Triple Option - Past, Present, and Future of NCAA Enforcement, Penn State's James Franklin Joins, & Florida Preview

Episode Date: June 18, 2025

The best way to figure out what's coming next is to go back to the start. Urban Meyer and Rob Stone take you through the different eras of NCAA enforcement, Urban's role in changing the game, and how the newly formed College Sports Commission will be different...or will it? Regardless, don't accept any cookies from Shelley. The past two seasons a veteran team from the Big Ten won the College Football Playoff National Championship, is it Penn State's turn? Head Coach James Franklin joins the show to talk about his loaded team, the future of the sport, and more. #WeAre There are no games yet, but recruiting is in full swing and the Big Ten has three of the top five classes for 2026, have they passed the SEC? The guys then take a look at Florida's chances this season with a very optimistic Urban Meyer seeing good things for his former school behind Billy Napier and DJ Lagway. New episodes of The Triple Option drop every Wednesday. Make sure you’re subscribed on YouTube and following on all podcast platforms. Also make sure you’re locked in on social @3XOptionShow on all platforms for highlight moments, bonus content, and to engage with the guys and the TO community. (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tripleoptionshow.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) The Triple Option is presented by Wendy’s.  Find your new favorite Frosty Fusions™ flavor today with choices like OREO®Brownie, Caramel Crunch, and Pop-Tarts® Strawberry. ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://m-wendys.app.link/frostyfusion25⁠⁠⁠⁠   Thank you to our additional sponsors   BetMGM BetMGM is giving you the chance to win a prize every day during the baseball season! Step into the batter’s box for BetMGM’s Swing For the Fences free-to-play game! Visit BetMGM app to access the game and you’ll score a prize if you hit a single, double, triple or home run. See BetMGM.com for Terms. This US promotional offer not available in DC, Mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER, available in the U.S. For New York, call 877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY (467369). For Arizona, call 1-800-NEXT-STEP. For Massachusetts, 1-800-327-5050. For Iowa, 1-800-BETS-OFF. For Puerto Rico, 1-800-981-0023. For West Virginia, visit www dot 1 800 gambler dot net. Subject to eligibility requirements. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Got to say, I think our two running backs, I think those guys may be a little bit bigger than our guy. Hey, hey, hey, they should be because I'm retired. I'm just a sucker. When you got the guns out and you don't look for time like that. That's what I'm saying. You don't see you don't see me and Herb's doing that. Retired guys don't do that. Light it. The Triple Option presented by Wendy's. Head to the Wendy's app to get a $1 JBC or a $1 double stack with offer and additional

purchase. Wait, where's Mark? Do we need Mark to hit the beat for us? Mark will join us a little bit later. He's Urban Meyer. I'm Rob Stone. Welcome to The Triple Option. Remember to rate, subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

wherever it is that you get your podcast, as well as across social media. You can find us at 3X Option Show. New episodes coming your way every Wednesday on YouTube, and wherever it is, you get your podcast. All right, coach, I'm gonna start with a question for you this week, which is gonna lead into our main conversation.

What do ButtDials, Too Much Pasta, and a cookie cake offered to recruits have in common? ButtDials, Too Much Pasta, a rogue cookie cake, what do they have in common? I'm gonna throw it out, they're probably violations of the national NCAA. Yes, all of them had been self-reported in fractions by schools to the NCAA. That is insane that that

cookie cake or something people are living under the fear of serving somebody too much pasta. They sit on their phone and accidentally butt dial a recruit. All right. Quick add to that. So I'm the head coach of Utah and Shelley would always get the player of the game. She'd make cookies for him. So Brandon Warfield was our tailback. This is 2003. He got player of the week in the Mountain West Conference. Shelley made him cookies. Our compliance guy

turned her in and I got a letter. I wish I would have saved it. I think she did. The letter said that you committed a violation and you're going to be reprimanded by your husband. I kid you not. So I guess that kind of leads us where we are today. It is, it is.

I have tears in my eyes right now because it is so ridiculous and and kind of this fear factor that that coaches and staff members have to have to live under with you know all these bylaws and all these rules and this was not where we were going this week. What triggered it was Michigan is still sitting out there waiting for a final ruling. They finally had that hearing about the sign stealing scandal over the weekend of June 6th. The NCAA president, Charlie Baker, he wasn't at the meeting, did say to expect a final

ruling in 30 to 90 days for the allegations that occurred all the way back in the 2023 season, which if you're a Michigan fan, you're like, come on, man, right? Like what is taking so long? Get this going. Well, you combine that with the college sports commission coming in to monitor infractions for money, you know, the whole NIL and handing things out. So we wanted to discuss the current system under the NCAA, how coach helped mold it and how we got to this point. So let's start though, coach, going way back that moment in your career where infractions,

if you will, first really came to light right in front of your face. This is a topic I'm very passionate about and I'm glad we're hitting it. Remember, the one of the things that I believe that the triple option does is educate and light. We have fun with it, but it's enlightenment. It's, it's, we're going to give you, Mark Ingram gives us stuff that most people don't know and I can do that because I spent 38 years in it. So it all started at my coaching career. I was at Ohio state and then I went to Illinois state, Colorado state, Notre

Dame, uh, Bowling Green as a head coach, Utah. And then I got hired in the SEC at Florida 2005. I didn't, the NCAA almost was an imaginative figure. We never dealt with the NCAA. You took a test once a year, you passed the test, you went on, you didn't even deal with violations. At Bowling Green, you weren't dealing with violations. Coach, what was the test?

Just like a test on what the rule book is? Yeah, they gave you a rule book and it was actually, weren't dealing with violations. Coach, what was, what was the test? Just like a test on what the yeah, they gave you a rule book and it was actually, it was a real test. You had to study it for that a week on that thing. And we had, uh, the compliance people would come in twice a week, I think. And they'd give you practice tests because if they fail the test, you can't recruit. And this went on for years. The rule book was that big. And the things you just mentioned and it was, you know,

it was, I actually thought it was okay. You know, it was kind of made sense and it made you study the rules because there were a lot of, uh, you know, rules that are important, but rules that generally were not, but you better, you better cover it. So, so I get hired in 2005 and I get to the SEC where the intensity level is unmatched. I mean, the recruiting is 365, the donors, boosters, everybody is, you're talking about there's six to eight teams in the SEC that expect to win a national title. There's no other league like that.

And you get down there and I mean, I was, I was hit right in the face with it. Every day I was in the CR the face with it every day. I was in to see our compliance director and say, is this really happening? You can't do this. And it was like drinking water through a garden hose with myself and our compliance director. And then I befriended someone named Julie Rowe, who's the vice president of enforcement of the NCAA. And I, I became a person that we had great conversations with. And, and from that point forward, I want to say from 2010, really eight, nine is when I really started to get involved because I couldn't disagree with more with this and it became, it came, it became to the point it was impacting our ability

to get players, which has an impact on the win loss record, which has the impact on your career, which has an impact on the financial stability of your family. So you can see the, the waterfall that takes place. And I, obviously I felt very close with the Mack Browns and Bob Stoops and other guys. And we would have these conversations and like, what in the hell is this school doing? You can't do that. And it went on and on and on and on. So, uh, I would say this, that a lot of them were allegations, I would guess, you

know, cause nothing was ever proven, but the more research I found, we saw a very flawed system and I give credit Julie Rowan. I worked together and this is, I know I'm giving you a lot of information, but back prior to the tier, the tiers of violations, Robert used to be major and secondary. Those are the only two types of violations. And the swap is too big. The minor violation is what you're talking about. Uh, inadvertent text message, cookies

to a star player. The major violations are called competitive advantages. And that means this can help you win a game because you're cheating or you're violating. And the most obvious is inducement of players or paying players. That's the most obvious, but it's much more. So that was kind of the old, old system, right? It's just two windows, right? Minor and really bad. You started getting involved in this. Did you write something on a cocktail napkin or something? Something in your Gainesville home? No, we are. So they came to see me. Who's they? NCAA? and Julie Rowan and one of her assistants came to see me and,

and I started writing things down about say that this, this seer is not, this doesn't give an advantage. You know, I give the example of cookies or, or inadvertent text message or, you know, silliness, you know, this is a, because all due respect to NCAA, they're not in the, they're not in it. And I think we really helped put together. And then Julie and her staff came up with the tier four tiers, which we can talk about number one is the most egregious level one means institutional control, inducements, obstruction. That's major, major violation. Number two is less major.

Number three is significantly less. And then number four, tier four violation is silly. Or not silly, it's just something that there's no competitive in. Incidental issues, right? Inverting, isolated infractions. Which you have to address, but certainly not penal. Number one, and I've made this clear for many, many times,

I learned from day one is that you lie or obstruct the NCA. If you lie to the NCA and you don't cooperate and obstruct their investigation, that's it's over. And the question I have, and obviously we'll discuss in a minute, is that still in place? Right. So let's just bullet point these four levels of infractions just to make it digestible. As you mentioned, coach, level one, severe breach of conduct, lack of institutional control as an example, academic fraud, failure to cooperate

with an NCA investigation, all right? So that's the worst. Level two, significant breach of conduct, failure to monitor systematic violations that do not amount to a lack of institutional control. Then it starts lessening a little bit, breach of conduct is level three, violations limited in nature,

providing a minimal advantage recruiting or competition. And then we end with level four, just those incidental odd issues, as we mentioned inadvertent and isolated. So that's what you were working with at Florida and Ohio State, right? Those four levels. Right, and then it directly correlates

to the enforcement or the penalty. And remember, this started in 2013, so I was already gone from Florida. This was already, this was when I was in the Big Ten Conference. And so I really felt like the NCAA had a handle. I really did. I kind of felt like, okay, they're not treating the inadvertent text message like a significant competitive advantage. And I kind of felt the college football world getting

a hold of themselves. How long did that feeling last? It lasted until 2015 until it became litigated. You know, and that Tom Mars is the famous attorney, I believe, and I know there's other attorneys probably, but everything became litigation. And I actually spoke to Julie Rowe today. And I asked her that question. I said, when did we lose it?

When did we lose control of this thing? And she said, like I did, she really felt that we were getting the grasp of things because again, the SEC is the most competitive. It's not even close. And when I first went to the big 10, I almost like, well, I challenged everybody. So, you know, you guys think we recruit, we don't recruit compared to down there. Down there, it's a fricking street fight.

I mean, every day you come in in the SEC, you're in a street fight to recruit. And why? Because the expectations are so much greater in the SEC than anywhere else. I think the big 10 has caught them to a degree, certainly the upper half. In my opinion, the other conferences aren't close as far as the competitive all the way down. Eight teams are expected to win a national title in the South Eastern conference.

And that's when I was exposed to this intensity for 365. So 2015 things became litigated. Uh, and then it got to the point where, where we are today, which is the topic of discussion. There's this new college football commission that is gonna be an entity that James Franklin, I believe, said that he thinks this eventually take over the enforcement of the college football world,

which the skepticism from people I've talked to, including Julie, is real. Let's do an exercise, if you will. And, and we're going to flash back to some memorable, memorable moments in punishment in the NCAA. And I want you to rate them on a scale of one to five and number one being like, why are we, why are we talking about this? Okay. Let's start with, you know, the OG of NCA punishment, the death penalty back in the 70s SMU, they were maintaining essentially a slush fund. By

the way, I didn't know what a slush fund was until I got into college. And a slush fund in college serves a great purpose if you're socializing and having fun. But if you're trying to work it through a football program, not so great. This slush fund was paying recruits, current players. Again, SMU had been put on probation five times, right, coach? So this is a consistent infraction that they're doing. The NCAA ended up canceling their 87th season and then 88 SMU is like, we just don't have enough guys because everybody just left the program. All these schools came in once SMU was told

that their season was canceled and just started plucking players. So it essentially killed two seasons and then it took them a long time for SMU to get back. So on a scale of one to five, what SMU did, one being just kind of negligible and five being just awful, where does that one sit? Oh, that's an obvious five,

especially repeated offender. And the way I always looked at it, and I shared this with the NCAA, Julie and the president of the NCAA back in the day is that that's the way you have to look at this. Is this the risk reward? Is it, we're human beings, everything's risk reward. So are you going to say this is going to help us win a game? And it gives a competitive advantage

over your opponent? If it is, that's closer to a five. If it's negligible, a bag of cookies for the player of the week in the Malwest Conference, that's a minus one. That has no competitive advantage whatsoever. By the way, does the death penalty in your eyes still serve a purpose? No. No, with the litigation, the amount of money that's

think about the seventies now. You didn't litigate back then. I don't believe you did. And once again, I'm not an expert. I wasn't around much. Certainly not to the level of now. No, and the amount of money that's being, you know, back in the seventies, I mean, teams could barely, you didn't have training table. Now you're talking about the NIL and budgets and coaches making millions of dollars, players making millions. So it was a much different animal back then. Okay, all right.

So that was the SMU. Our friend, Reggie Bush, 04, USC. Reggie receiving improper benefits and gifts. Again, that's Reggie. The football team vacated all the wins from the 05 season, final two wins of the 04 campaign, banned from postseason play in 2010 and 11, and lost 30 total scholarships, scale of 1 to 5. And remember Pete Carroll left. I mean this was a major, major deal, but I don't

know if it was if it was a Reggie Bush issue, then it was a 3-2. You know, it wasn't a competitive, you know, that was good for Reggie, I guess, but I don't know if it was, if it was a Reggie Bush issue, then it was a 3-2. You know, I, it wasn't a competitive, you know, that was good for Reggie, I guess. Or, I mean, it was Reggie was benefiting, but if they use that in recruiting for other players, then it becomes a one. I don't, I don't understand. I don't, I don't know that case other than obviously Reggie lost his highs, but I believe he got it back and they took down banners of national champions.

So, so I would say on, on the cover, that's a two to three. If it was inducement for other players, it becomes a five. Gotcha. 2010, the Ohio State. This was the whole trading gears for tattoos. Terrell Pryor certainly evolved in that. Jim Trestle, the head coach, received a five year show cause, $250,000 fine, forced to resign as head coach. Buckeyes vacated all the wins from the 2010 season.

They had a 2012 postseason ban and a reduction of five scholarships over three years. It was actually nine scholarships. Nine scholarships. This is trading gear for tattoos, coach. Yeah, I know this one well, because I lived it. Our 2012 team went undefeated and was not able to compete. We were to play Notre Dame for the national championship that year. So it was very punitive.

Jim Trestle, who I know well, once again, I know this case because I lived it. I was hired directly after coach Trussell resigned. And on a competitive scale, it's one. There's no competitive advantage. There were some players that were trading from my understanding, which I do know, they were trading memorabilia for tattoos. So competitive advantage, zero, a one. There's nothing there. Uh, was it wrong? Yes.

Uh, Jim Trussell was accused of lying. And the, what I understand is that the accusation was that he signed a letter like we all had to sign back. I don't know if they still do it. They say you're not aware of any violations and he was aware of this. He ended it. And as a result, uh, so I think it's a one, but the inconsistency of that penalty is, to this day, still bothers me. Yeah, inconsistency is kind of a buzzword through

this conversation. By the way, do you remember the days when Sports Illustrated would come out once a week and you couldn't wait to get it in your mailbox and see who made the cover? Your thoughts when Jim Trestle made the cover of Sports Illustrated. Yeah, to this day, I still hold a grudge about that whole thing. I know Jim Tressel, I know I followed him, so I know exactly what his program was all about, and that was wrong.

I mean, that was a mistake on a lot of fronts. The support Tressel received in Columbus, I don't think was fair, and certainly the national, it's actually a joke to be honest with you. And so remember now competitive advantage, negligible, none, there was none. So the tier system gets introduced in 2013, all right? So now let's talk about some punishments that were handed

with this tier system in mind. We go to 2019, Tennessee Tennessee level one violations, direct payments to recruits, over 200 violations over a two year period, punishment, vacated wins, $8 million fine, five year probation, 28 scholarship reduction. Head coach Jeremy Pruitt given six year show cause, scale of one to five.

We should clarify what show cause means too. Yeah, that was my next question. Show cause means that if the university wants to hire coach Pruitt, you have to give what show cause means too. Yeah, that was my next question. Show cause means that if a university wants to hire a coach, you have to give us show cause why we should hire them. They have to fight it. And if they don't fight it, then they can't hire. That's my understanding what a show cause was because there's certain coaches out there right now that have a show cause. And it doesn't mean you can't coach.

It means you have to show causation to hire the guy. That's my understanding. Essentially though, that you're handcuffed, you're handcuffed out of that game, right? Right. I think it is. You can't coach. I don't know if anyone's ever defeated a show cause, but that's something that remains to be seen. Tennessee, 2019, on the level of one through five, that's a five. I was familiar because I heard from colleagues and also some people on the inside what was going on there and you know, stuffing McDonald bags or you know, whatever I heard is that it was inducement to get players, which does that have a competitive advantage?

Yeah, what the hell are we talking about? Of course you do. All right. 2020 Arizona State, again, level one violations for hosting players on campus during the COVID dead period, given a four-year probation, vacated wins, scholarship reductions, recruiting restrictions, assistant coach Antonio Pierce received a show cause. So what Arizona State did in 2020 on a scale of one to five, one light, five really nasty stuff that they did. Right. Level one COVID violations.

So that's, that's not as bad as a five of stuff and money. What is significant? You're getting advantage. Is it a competitive advantage? Yes. To what degree? You still have to recruit them. Um, I don't see that they were inducing players with money.

I don't see that there. Uh, but it was, it was significant. So I would say one minus to two. So that was fairly significant, not as bad as the ultimate, which is inducing players with cash. Okay, the Wolverines in 2020, level two, impermissible conduct or contact rather with recruits and players

during that restricted COVID period. That was then upgraded to level one because Coach Harbaugh intentionally disregarded the NCAA legislation and was shown to have some unethical conduct. School put on three-year probation. That started in 24. Whatever. By the way, what is three years probation? Right?

Just... Well, that's what we're going to find out because there's another one pending. So probation, my understanding is when you're on probation, you become repeat offender. That is a- That adds to it. We'll talk about mitigating versus aggravating here in a second. And that is an aggravating addition to the, if there's another penalty. So I look at the 2020-

Well, there's more to it, Coach. Let me add to it real quick. So we mentioned the school put on a three-year probation. Coach Harbaugh given a one-year ban and a four-year show cause. Assistants Jesse Minter, Steve Clingsdale, plus two members of the recruiting staff also given show cause. So NCAA, they came down pretty hard with those show causes at least. So NCAA, they came down pretty hard with those show causes at least. They did. And it was back, this is the other thing that we have to discuss is the subpoena power version,

you know, expedition, expediting. This happened in 2020. Right. So the penalties went out, I believe, this past year or so, or I guess the year before they were suspended. Probation started in three games. Yeah. So I look at Arizona State 2020 and the Wolverines 2020.

It looks to me like the same, like it's the, was it competitive advantage? Yeah. Is it a one plus like, or a five plus like paying players? No. But is it a competitive advantage? Of course it is. You wouldn't do it. So the thing that, that since day one is the

intentional disregard or obstructing of investigation or unethical conduct, that is the, you know, that's been from day one as your graduate assistant, you learn that. So that was, it says right there, it's upgraded to level one. Let's talk 2022 USC again, level two violations for exceeding the number of allowed coaches for two years, one year probation, $50,000 fine they were given. Yeah, that's, to me, that's a three. It's something you shouldn't do, but it's, is it a competitive advantage? I guess. Depends on how good these coaches are. If they're horseshit coaches, it doesn't really matter. But if they're good coaches, like I imagine they were.

So, I mean, it's more than just a misdemeanor to me. That's significant, but not enough to be a level one. It's a level two, which is right. Okay, coach, let's go to the alleged infractions, which really kind of trigger today's conversation. Michigan, again, 2023. We're still waiting on what level of infraction this will be. We're still waiting on NCA punishment if there will be anything, but we

do know this is being viewed as a repeat violation. And this of course is the whole Connor Stallions situation where Stallions orchestrated that scheme to illegally scout future opponents. The NCA is investigating whether Michigan violated rules, prohibiting in-person advanced scouting and other unsportsmanlike activities. There has been some fallout from this already, of course. Jim Harbaugh famously suspended the final three regular season games of 2023 by the Big Ten.

So the conference did that to coach Harbaugh, but he did return for the Big Ten championship game the conference did that to Coach Harbaugh, but he did return for the Big Ten championship game, the college football playoffs, and of course they went on to win the national title. In season though, linebacker coach Chris Partridge fired for destroying evidence. Sharon Moore, the current head coach, has offered to be suspended for two games this season trying to kind of get ahead of potential punishment. So one being a minor infraction and a random butt dial

to a recruit, five being really egregious. Where does this one sit? Well, this to be determined, this is ongoing. So I don't think all of us understand did it really happen. There's a couple things that are for sure happened. And I still laugh when I think about Connor Steyens dressing up like an assistant coach on the other

sideline to videotape a rival, Michigan State that I don't, it's gotta be, maybe there was a movie, I think someone said there was, but that's, you, how does that happen? And then, you know, I got into it with some colleagues, even Fox colleagues, you know, wow, coach, everybody does that. I was like, everybody does what? And I even made some calls of, you know, I coach, everybody does that. I was like, everybody does what? And I even made some calls of, you know, I said, have you ever heard of this before and they're like, no, but whether other coaches have done that before in the past, some people out there say some reputable people, or Bruce Feldman, I

think told me, or someone, well, that this does happen to other places. I was like, Bruce, I've never heard of this before. So a lot of us is to be determined on the surface. Is it a competitive advantage to know the signals of your opponents illegally? You got them illegally. Of course it is. Um, you know, you don't get people have to understand that when you say signals, there's only a couple of signals that you can get that fast in real time.

Is it a run or a pass? Is that significant? Hell yeah, it is. It's a tremendous advantage. It changes the entire technique of your defensive front, linebackers and the second. Everybody knows a pass. That's a completely different story. And then the whole right or left.

If they know it's a run to the right or run to the left. And that's why I understand the advantages are, you know, to say it's going to be a, you know, they're throwing the ball across the middle. That's not, they don't know that. What they do is know if it's a runner pass and if it's going to be a, you know, they're throwing the ball across the middle. That's not, they don't know that. What they do is know if it's a runner pass and if it's right or left. Okay, that's the advantage for a defense. For an offense, it's all about the blitz. If they can signal to the offense and say a blitz is coming, you know,

either from the boundary, from the field or from an internal, and that's a hell of an advantage. So if you can get that kind of information in real time to your players, and that's still dupe-determined, if that was really happening, we all hear that it was, then that is a one. And then obviously when you start seeing destruction of evidence, those kinds of things, that's, you know, I'm just reading through it. So this is all to be determined, which again, is not the purpose of this entire conversation

we're having today. It's gonna be where are we at now and why is this college football commission coming along? So there's a lot of risk reward, right coach? I assume, I mean, heck, you do that in everything in coaching, you know, is calling that play worth it? But people are creative these days and age and with the pressure to win

and the paychecks that are sitting out there, this isn't going away, right? Like the college football commission isn't gonna just make this be something that with an old conversation. People are gonna be creative in finding ways around rules. And I talked to Julie Rowe at length about this, and by the way, she's willing to come on and visit with us, Rob, and I think that's something we should do because what's the

purpose of our conversation? Are we criticizing? Are we? No, no, we're enlightening people that have a very sincere interest in college football. That's what we're doing. And the new commission, I was led to believe that there's subpoena power and that's a game changer. There is two game changers in our world.

One is subpoena power. What does that do that forces you to tell the truth or there's gonna be some kind of criminal element to that? Game changer. You want the truth, subpoena someone and you have to, because if you lie, there's gonna be, that's a criminal offense. And the number two thing is the unionization. Everybody signs a piece of paper, a document,

not a piece of paper, a legal document that says they will not litigate and whatever the commission decides the enforcement or the penalty is, you take it and you move on. My understanding is that's not exactly what's happening. What Julie said and we have to do further research on this, the NCAA currently asks subpoena power, Rob. I really don't understand that. There's no teeth to it because there's no penalty. You lied in the NCAA right now and they can't prove it. You're not going to jail for lying.

In a courtroom, in federal and state jurisdiction, you put your right hand on the Bible and you raise your left hand, or raise your right hand and put your left hand on the Bible, that you are now in criminal territory and you're going to pay the price of a criminal. That's not the case at all. So she feels very skeptical, like I do, that the subpoena power still has no bite to it. And then finally, she's not seeing the document, the legal document that says that we're all in and she's the commissioner of the horizon conference. So there's a lot of skepticism that this is just a shell game now.

I'm not saying it is because we're still finding out, but this new world order. I don't know. We might have to pump the brakes and find out more details. How can we lose that skepticism in you coach? What is it that you need to see? I need to see subpoena power. And there's only, you heard conversations where the United States government, Congress can get involved. If they do and they give you real subpoena power,

you're gonna see expedited penalties. You're gonna see enforceable penalties. But Congress, in case you haven't turned on the news, like there's a lot of stuff going on and whether how much a recruit gets paid right now is not one of the top concerns. No. So the big takeaway here, of course,

is do not accept Shelley's cookies, right? As a baseline. When Shelley's come around with cookies. Or she has to be reprimanded, which you don't want to get into that. Just walk away from Shelley and her cookies. Man, there is so much more to come in the world of

enforcement in college football. One last thought about this and Julie Rose said that this is all, this is really great way to look at it. The old model was presidents ran the NCAA and enforcement. There are the rotating committees. And I asked this question. She said, peers, penalizing peers is non-sustainable. It doesn't work.

We know that. And the new version, she was saying it's much different now. A lot of what she did is the NSA now has former judges and other third party people that do not have the human element evolved. Do you think that makes sense? A president of one university is not going to penalize a friend at another university. Would you think the presidents are all right giving up that

power though? It is still their school, right? That they're in charge of. I think if you want, right? That they're in charge of. That they're represented. I think if you want, you know, and I could, you know, I've worked for some great presidents and I worked for one or two not great ones, but I mean, uh, to me that's, you want to find the source of some issues in college sports, it's that. When your coach doesn't work with the NCAA or in basketball, I heard stories about where coaches just said,

I'm not talking to the NCAA and you're like, wait, what? How's that happen? So I think, yeah, I think the presidents universities, I know certainly coaches are the number one offender, but their boss has got to be held accountable as well. Yeah. Good conversation. Kind of stumbled on that one, Coach. Way to do your research, by the way. I'm expecting you to like break some recruiting news coming up now. I'm done.

I'm done with that. You're exhausted. Go have a cookie, take a break, and when we return on the Triple Option presented by Wendy's, we're gonna be joined by one of our favorites, the head coach at Penn State University, James Franklin joins the Triple Option next. Light it. ["Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy"]

Mom, mom, did you see my race? Oh, of course I did, darling. Look, you did your best. You tried. The thing is, it's not about winning. It's about taking part. Next year, you might do better. But I did win, mom.

You did? When it's sunny, make sure you can still see. At Specsavers, get two pairs of glasses from $149 and one can be prescription sunglasses. Hey, the sun won't wait. Visit Specsavers.ca for details. Conditions apply. Welcome back to the Triple Option presented by Wendy's. We are excited now to take you to happy Valley and bring in the head coach of we are. And stay. All right, there we go. The head coach.

I didn't know if somebody else was gonna jump in there. I don't know. Oh man, we're all in on this one, man. Coach James Franklin, kind enough to join us. Thank you. Happy summer, man. Thanks for joining us. We've been hunting you for a while, coach.

Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to be on. I'm gonna jump in knee deep with this, right? They had a bunch of feel good questions. I appreciate the opportunity to be on. I'm going to jump in knee deep with this. Right. They, they had a bunch of feel good questions. I'm not going to do that. I, I remember me and you would sit in, in big 10 meetings and we shared the same. Uh, concern for, you know, the, the rules and the who's following, who's not, and

the compliance, et cetera. And then all of a sudden I see that this college commissions come out with these guardrails for rules and the whole world's act like, okay, finally we have rules. James, I started in 1982, probably around when you did, they handed us a rule book that thick and every rule is covered in there, but people didn't necessarily follow them. So what's going to be, I keep her, okay, There's no tampering, no paying players, no extra benefits. That I got news that's been around for a long time.

So do you see this changing because there's a, an, uh, an entity outside the NCA or, and people I'm understanding have to sign and say we're in, but I'm going to hand it off to you right now rules without enforcement. You might as well might not as well have them. So what's your thoughts? Yeah. You know, coach, you know, I think we both kind of had a similar experience from the standpoint where both were in the Big Ten meetings together and we had also both been SEC head coaches.

So we kind of had a unique perspective on all these things. And I'm not'm not shocked Herbs that you're not easing into this interview, right? That does not surprise me one bit, but yeah, I think what the hope is, Herbs, is that everybody's going to have to sign in and agree to this. And then with that, you're basically saying, if you want to be a part of this, that you're agreeing, um, to all the rules, um, and how everything needs to play out the guidelines of how we're all going to operate within this system. And with that, from what I understand, you're not going to be able to sue. If you want to be a part of this, um, you're in, and if you don't want to be a

part of it, then, then go play somewhere else, whether it's NAIA or whatever it may be, but I think your point is a good one. There is going to be an entity and an arm, um, that is going to be on enforcement. And this is going to be different than anything we've all experienced because they're going to have subpoena power, um, and, and they are going to act and act swiftly. This is not going to be one of these things that we've all kind of grew up with under the NCAA where it goes on for two years.

A lot of times the coach is gone and the next coach is coming in and having to deal with it, myself included. This is gonna be something where decisions are gonna be made and made swiftly, very similar to, I think, maybe a major league baseball model, an NFL model is what they're trying to bring to college football.

So I think in theory, Erbs, I think you'll like what they're trying to do. Now, as we both know, the theory of it and the reality are two different things. And there's gonna be some growing pains, you know, as we work through it. Have you seen the document? Have you and your AD talked to it? Is it a legitimate document saying that Tom Mars is not going to be suing the NCAA every three weeks or not the NCAA, the college commission? Is that what you're saying? I didn't know that part. I

didn't understand the subpoena power, which is huge for expediting issues. And then number two, if it's no litigation we're in, is that, is that what's going to happen? Then do you see any teams balking at signing this thing? Yeah, I think people are going to have a hard time of not signing it because I think it's going to start with the commissioners and the presidents, right? Uh, and everybody's going to want to be a part of this because obviously there's financial implications to all of this as well and how are you going to be on the

outside, right? So, uh, I do think everybody is, is going to sign it now. Um, what we're signing, I have not seen yet. I think that's at a presidential level, and an athletic director level, but even when we were at Big Ten meetings, that still not was something that was out there for all of us to see, that they're still working through the details. I think a lot of this, they were waiting until the judge, formally made the decision. And then there's the implementation committee,

partly from the NCAA commissioners, athletic directors that are part of implementing basically the house rules. And it's going to go from there. So we're still learning, Ervs, I'm still learning every single day and getting more information, but what has been explained to me, I think they're, they're hopeful is the best way to describe it, that we can move in this direction. And last question before I head off to Mark is that, so this is just NIL, right? This, this has nothing to do with the other nonsense, you know, or, uh, the, you know, NCA is still going to handle whatever it may be, uh, other issues within the sportsmanship and rules.

Is that correct? So the way I kind of understand it is this is revenue sharing rules and NIL rules kind of are all under this umbrella. But I would also say coach that I really think it's pretty much going to be everything. I think football is going to be run by this entity. I don't want to use the term like that we're breaking away, but I think football is going to be run by this entity. And- Does that include things like playoffs, coach?

Yeah, I think at the end of the day, everything is gonna fall under this umbrella because the reality is right now, it's gonna be the Big Ten commissioner, the SEC commissioner and this entity. You know, people are going to get upset when I say that, but they're going to be the ones running it and obviously other commissioners from other conferences, there's going to have a voice as well, but I think the challenge

and coach herbs knows this is in the old days under the NCA structure, Penn State would have a vote, Ohio State would have a vote, they'd be the same, but then an FCS school or a smaller school, one AA school would have a similar vote under the NCA structure that we would. And you'd be trying to get things passed and you try to get rules involved and they were trying to treat us all the same and we're not.

So I think we're trying to get kind of to more of a structure now where we're making decisions that are in the best interest of major college football. And I think we're close to achieving that from the way it's being described to me. Coach, we've seen kind of like a common theme the last couple of years in the national champions is Ohio State and Michigan kind of getting their core leaderships, their core guys to come back and return. And we've seen that with the happen with you in Penn State. Just my first question is, what went into these exit meetings for you to get these guys to buy in and get

the whole team to like, like say, Hey, I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to forgo my senior year and go to the NFL. I'm going to come back and try to accomplish special, some special with this team and with this coaching staff. What went into it? What, how did you get that mentality and that mindset going within your return of players? Yeah. To be honest with you, it really wasn't that because it really back to coach

Herb's is question too, that's a big part of this, right? We're having these conversations during the playoffs. I'm trying to retain my team during the playoffs. And, and that's the challenge. And we're trying to get rid of this. So you don't have the transfer portal open during the playoffs. Right. We should be totally focused on trying to win a championship.

And instead I'm having conversations, uh, to try to keep the team together. So it wasn't like getting the whole team together and say, let's, let's come back. Well, the season hadn't been over yet. Guys were having to make these decisions before that. So it really didn't play out that way. It was really just one conversation at a time. And as we've done for years, you sit down with the players and you sit down with their parents and you have all the information from the GMs and the scouts.

You're being projected as a third or fourth round draft choice or a fourth and fifth round draft choice and we've gotten to the point where we got guys that don't feel like they should leave Penn State unless they're gonna be a first or second round draft choice so they want to maximize their experience in college it may be finishing their degree it may be coming back to improve their draft stock. It may be also having an opportunity to make a run at a national championship. It's all of those things. And what we talk about too, you know, with team success comes individual recognition and you know, you look at the teams that are the most successful

They're able to get those guys back like you mentioned and they're focused on the team first And then all these other things that are going to come as a byproduct of the success that the team has and just one follow-up Man, we we talk about returning returning starters two of the most two of the returning starters, two of the most, two of the starters returning that I'm most excited about is your two backs, K-Tron Allen and Nick Singleton. Both had over a thousand yards rushing last year. And I was able to do a feature on both these guys, and man, it really impressed me how selfless they were, how much they cared about each other, but also how much they compete against each other. And that's how it makes them so much better. But how does their playing styles complement each other? And also how do you think they've put their egos aside

to share these touches over the past two, three years that you've seen, Coach? Well, first of all, shocker that you want to talk about the running backs right now. You know that, I've got to talk to our beast, Coach. Yeah, the first thing I'll say is, you know, to be honest, I was surprised when they both came back. I thought it was going to be similar, our tight end situation where, you know, to be honest, I was surprised when they both came back, I thought it was going to be similar, our tight

end situation, where, you know, we had Tyler Warren and Theo Johnson, both tight ends. And once one decided to leave the other one state or vice versa, and I thought it was going to be similar. But I also think they have bought into our philosophy here. We don't want to be in a situation where we're sending a running back to the NFL. And he's got, you know, too much work here. Harry's on a season and the NFL feels like he's beat up. Yes. Not a whole lot of, you know, tread left on the tires. Our guys understand, you know, they're really good complimentary pieces.

It's going to be really good for their longevity and their careers and things like that. The other thing that really helped that no one wants to talk about is we got a chance to have one of the best offensive lines in college football this year. That plays a big part in this as well. They know who's coming back in front of them and that's going to be helpful. And then we went out into the transfer portal and got some a little bit of help at wide receiver, because if people are concerned about our passing game, as you know, that's going to help our running backs as much as anything. Yes, sir. Thank you.

Hey, James, in 2012, I went to the big 10. I think you came two or three years later. And I came in 14. Yeah. And 14. I was shocked when I first got there. I come in from the sec at the,. I was shocked when I first got there. I come in from the SEC at the, you know, just the quality of football from stadium experiences,

from, you know, there were great players, but not enough great players. And even my wife, Shelley, said to me once, I was, man, this is slow compared to what we just did for the last six years. And now fast forward, I think the Big Ten has passed the SEC. Obviously they have a national champ, maybe not top to bottom, but speak to how much the big 10 has improved. We added the four Pac-12 teams, which have added a lot of depth to the conference. Are you shocked, surprised, proud of where the big 10 has come from where it was back in the 12, 13, 14 years. Yeah, I'm proud.

And I think, I think the biggest thing is the point you just made. Um, it's strange, um, that, that the big 10 is now on the West coast. Um, but I think whenever you're able to add a USC, a UCLA, a Washington, and an Oregon to your conference, um, you can make the argument, this is the strongest the big 10 has ever been in its history, uh, from top to bottom. So yeah, I'm proud of that. I'm proud of being associated, uh, with the big 10. I'm proud of what we've been able to do.

I'm proud of the success on the football field.. I'm proud of the success on the football field. And I'm proud of Penn State's role in that as well. And I think your point is a good one. We're really competing everywhere now. We're part of the conversation. We're either the best conference in college football or we're least part of that argument between two conferences.

I think we both have a healthy respect for the SEC. But when you talk about national championships, when you talk about draft choices, when you talk about those things at the very, very highest level, it's a heck of an argument year in and year out what those two conferences are able to do. Yeah. Coach, the last couple of years, your program has been so consistent, constantly in that double digit wind type category and you're fighting for Big Ten championships, you're getting yourself in the college football playoffs. But I do feel there is

a conversation out there, there is a narrative about Penn State that we only believe in Penn State up until a certain point, when it's talking semi finals or winning the national championship, it's hard to-finals or winning the national championship, it's hard to really push your chips in to Penn State. And maybe that's just, that's a narrative that you've heard or you haven't heard, but we in the media certainly feel it. And it's one that we've expressed as well, to be honest.

So what does Penn State need to do on the field to prove to people, hey, we belong in this upper echelon of college football? Yeah. Well, I think a couple of things. I think first thing is you gotta embrace that, right? I mean, that's the nature of major college football. That's part of being at a place like Penn State. I mean, we finished fifth in the country last year

and people are pissed, right? Like that's what the Penn State job is about. You got to embrace that. I'm very proud of what we've accomplished. We've been as consistent as any program in the country. We've been as consistent at Penn State, that Penn State's ever been since joining the Big Ten. So I'm proud of all those things. But I also understand, fully embrace, that we got to take that next step. And it's winning those games that you're talking about. We totally understand that. And we're excited about that. That's what this year is all about, about taking those steps. Like Mark brought up, we got a core group of guys coming back that we're going to

rely on heavily, but we can't wait. And I think one of the things that we're doing, I think a good job of is balancing that with also not doing what a lot of programs do as well, which lose the games that you're not supposed to lose. You know, we've done a really good job of that. And what I don't want to do is now we put such an emphasis on these other games and how we ended up losing some teams that we're not supposed to. So that's the balancing act. And I'm proud of the staff and I'm proud of the players of how we're approaching it. And we got tremendous opportunity

to change that conversation and change that narrative. You look at your roster right now. Do you have a national championship team sitting there in happy Valley right now? I think we got a tremendous opportunity to do some special things this year. Um, I know you don't want me to do this, but, uh, I am excited about our opportunity. I'm looking up on the screen right now. Nevada is our opening game. Uh, people are going to say, well, that's not a big game.

We'll lose to Nevada and find out. So, uh, we're focused on that, but I also am totally comfortable with talking about the things that we aspire to do as a team this year and as a season and for these players. To me, that's the biggest thing is I want these players to experience this. I want these players that have come back and made these sacrifices to be a part of something special and that's why I wake up very early. That's why I go to sleep late at night, trying to put these players in the best position

to be successful and have a very, very special season this year at Penn State. Coach, we really appreciate the time. Enjoy the rest of your summer and always good to catch up with you. I have a funny feeling we'll be seeing you a couple of times this upcoming season. Thanks guys, I appreciate it. And I gotta say, I think our two

running backs. I think those guys may be a little bit bigger than our guy. Hey, coach, they should be because I'm retired. I'm just a sucker. When you got the guns out and you don't look retired like that. Yes, that's what I'm saying. Retired, you don't see me and Herb's doing that. Retired guys don't do that.

I ain't hitting the weights like them boys are. I ain't doing them heavy squats like them boys are, man. I'm chasing these kids around, coach. That's all I gotta do now. Thanks, guys. Appreciate you. You're the best, Coach Franco. Thank you. Thanks, Coach.

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Welcome back to the Triple Option presented by Wendy's. Rob Stone, Urban Meyer here with you. Time now for Treat of the week presented by Wendy's. Make sure to try Wendy's new frosty fusions with flavors like caramel crunch Oreo brownie and pop tarts strawberry. All right. We have talked a lot about rules and litigation and playoff formats this offseason.

Not a whole lot though has been said about recruiting. So the season's coming here, right? And we just took a look at the latest 2026 recruiting rankings that certainly will taste sweet to the Big Ten. Coach, the Big Ten has 10 teams in the top 25, USC and Ohio State currently sitting one and two respectively. James Franklin's Nittany Lions at number five. Has the Big Ten maybe caught up, maybe surpassed the SEC in recruiting? I think they've caught up. Last year they were the strongest conference, actually the last two years, and that's easy to evaluate who held the trophy at the end of the year, and it was the Wolverines and

then the Buckeyes, which if you asked that question 10, 15 years ago, so that will probably never happen. The Buckeyes won it in 2002, 14, and then obviously this past year and the Wolverines won it the year before. So I would not say past them though. I think that's a credit. First of all, we add the Big Ten added four teams, not just four teams, four legit teams from the Pac-12. USC is obviously number one in recruiting right now.

So they are on the same par. They're in the same conversation, the recruiting rankings, and the other way to evaluate recruiting is the NFL draft. And there was a time where the SEC had so many in it, they still have more than the other conferences. But anytime you want to talk about conference and the strongest conferences, I look at championships and NFL draft and you kind of stop there. When you were coaching, how much did you get caught up with five-star

labels and four-star labels? Like, hey, we got to get more five-star guys. Oh, I never said that, but I certainly, I checked recruiting every morning. I was in the office and I checked. I had three or four college football analysts and for the most part they're not bad. I'm not saying they're right all the time, but I checked it all the time and as my father once told me is that as long as they're keeping score we're gonna try to win and that I, you're damn right we wanted to be the number one recruiting school in the country. It's good for your program, it's good for the exposure, but you certainly didn't make decisions

on other people's evaluation. I will tell you this. I saw, for example, Justin Traddall, great player out of Bosco, New Jersey. One day I was going through my list. He committed, I believe to Notre Dame and he was a five star. And I was like, wait, what the hell happened there? And I got my recruiting off. We had a D-line coach.

We ended up flipping him. We went after him for one reason. That was because I saw he became a five-star and they were right. He ended up having a great career for us. So to answer your question, did I watch it? Absolutely. And I'll tell you the coaches that say that they don't pay attention. I'd say they pay attention.

So you're paying attention to your own recruiting. Obviously. Are you paying attention to your competitors and who they're pulling in? I told you we had a Wolverine board on a room, on a separate board, and I'm recruiting in the war room. We used to call it. Every day I checked and I wanted to see who they were recruiting. It was updated daily. Who were they recruiting?

Who were they getting? And why did they beat us on that player, if they did? And that was a bad day for that assistant coach if we didn't know about that player. And it's a good thing that didn't happen that often. Coach, give me one player that you really wanted and you couldn't quite close the deal for whatever reason. I'll give you a hundred players. We went after Jereel, you know, you talk about the Wolf Range, Jereel Peppers.

I wanted him bad. I thought he was a great player. The one that I would say probably is Patrick Peterson at Florida. I had him. He ended up being, I think he's going to be a Hall of Famer. We had him on our show. Love that player. And then the other one is CJ Spiller, 25 miles from the swamp.

And I mean, we had that, and I love that kid to this day. We're still friends. And that would have been, if the, the Gators would have got that cat back in the 07, 08 era, it wouldn't have been fair. The amount of talent we had on that team. Coach, recruiting has changed through the years. Right. We all know that, but sometimes the visuals scream at us.

All right. So this, this is out there right now. This is a five-star LSU whiteout commit, Tristan Keys. Again, an LSU commit on his official visit though. Oh gosh, here we go. To Tennessee. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I'm out.

It's like an orange fashion show. So that's an LSU commit. That is an LSU commit. And by the way, I don't know what the term commit really means anymore. You can commit all you want, but until you show up on campus, your fair game is kind of how it feels like. Yeah, that's been that way for quite a while. So once commit just means you know you're in a final three, you know, it doesn't mean you're gonna get the guy. Depends on, obviously it depends on the people,

you know, so much of it depends on the mom and dad, you know, when you sit in the home and you're like, okay, this one's done, as opposed to that third uncle sitting there and saying, okay, now what's in it for me as opposed to that third uncle sitting there and saying, okay, now what's, what's in it for me? Those, those are the ones that I would look at the assistant coach say this, this shit, this, this stuff's not going to happen.

So, but I watched that video and now I know why I'm worried about the, you know, my boat out back and, you know, am I going to play golf tomorrow? Cause it's hot down here. I mean, imagine that. No, hold on, coach. Let's say, let's say you, you got, am I going to play golf tomorrow? Cause it's hot down here. I mean, imagine that. Oh, hold on, Coach. Let's say, let's say you, you got that player at Florida. He, he is committed to you. And then you see this video of him strutting around in Tennessee.

What is your, and your staff's reaction to how you would manage that situation? Yeah. It's so much as you can't cookie cutter it. It's dependent on the kid, you know, plus third, remember they're kids. You know they're kids. You know, they're having fun. They're having a hell of a time. Yeah, you're given these gifts. Why not take them? Yeah, have fun with it. And, you know, I think it's silly, but, you know, I'm not 18 years old either. I'm not 17 years old. And that, you know, that didn't really happen back in the day, but have at it, tiger, you know, that's once again, not my, certainly not my issue anymore. I'm not sure that's what Brian Kelly's saying.

Have had it. Tigers like get your tail, the bat and Rouge put on the right colors. All right. Time now for the triple option crystal ball brought to you by bet MGM. Bet MGM is giving you the chance to win a prize every day during the baseball season. Step into the batter's box for BetMGM's Swing for the Fences free to play game. Visit BetMGM app to access the game and you'll score a prize if you hit a single double triple or even a home run. So this week, the crystal ball coach is going

to focus on your old program in Gainesville, the Florida Gators. Win total during the regular season set at seven and a half. Thinking about the under already, coach. The over you can get for plus 100, the under for minus 120. These lines, of course, always subject to change. So again, the regular season win total, we're talking seven and a half. Last season, they finished with seven regular season wins, did complete the campaign with

a bowl game win over Tulane. Losses to Miami, Texas A&M, Tennessee, Georgia, and Texas. Ranked wins over LSU and Ole Miss. Curious note though, of their five losses, the quarterback, DJ Lague, only started against Georgia, and he left that game in the second quarter had that calf injury he did lead the Gators to wins in their final three starts that's against LSU Ole Miss and Florida State so a lot is expected of him let's take a look at the schedule right now as I mentioned I'm feeling the under in Gainesville we We're going to start though with Long Island, who I frankly didn't know had a football program. I played against Long Island

in soccer. I didn't know they had football. It'll be 115 heat index in the swamp. Right. So let's give them the win against Long Island. South Florida is one of those programs that always seems to give in-state schools issues, whether it's Florida state or Miami. But I think we can say, let's just give Florida the wind there as well. All right. So two and O then business picks up coach. How about this three game stretch at four games, four game stretch. Look at that. You're right. Four game stretch, but really an ugly three for sure. Right. So we start at LSU. Yeah. That's a tough one. L okay. At Miami. That's a 0.5. Versus Texas. At home, 0.5. 0.5. So, all right. So I guess because all those 0.5s, we'll give them three wins. Somehow they might steal one of those.

And then they go back on the road at Texas A&M. Damn. 0.5. Yeah, right? You're being generous with your 0.5s right now. I just, I'll talk about it later. I know, I'm with you. I feel it. All right. How about this? Mississippi state. W. Okay. World's largest cocktail party, Georgia, in Jacksonville. I'm going to go Georgia. L. Okay. At Kentucky. W. All right. So we're at five at Ole Miss.

Point five. So that's point five, five, six, seven, point five. Look at that. Versus Tennessee. W at home. Okay. So six and change and then verse Florida state. W at home. So I've actually going to say they're going to be above the seven. Okay. You think they're going to hit eight because you're, you're dancing in that seven, seven and a half range. I do. I do. And here, here's why.

Okay. The, the writing, the book was written on Florida last year. It was over. They lost early, lost bad early. And the sign of a coaching staff and the sign of a team was some kind of, there's something, you know, that first of all, the quarterback was young and he's, he's coming back obviously. But regardless of the, I mean, not regardless, uh, that team fought their ass off, man, and I, to beat Ole Miss and to beat LSU down to stretch, obviously

they beat Florida State, but you know, that was, I've had a lot, I have still so many friends involved in Florida and the writing was on the wall. And somehow the coach, you know, Coach Napier, the staff and the leaders on that team ignored the noise and went out and played their best football at the end of the season.

So I think there's something there right now. One of the great resurrections last season, because the early conversation was, all right, what's his buyout? Who else is Florida going to look at? Like a lot of people had written off the Napier era, but there's huge expectations in Gainesville all the time. Coach, you know it, you lived it.

Um, and it started with coach Spurrier, right? 12 years, six sec titles and one national title. So when you came into Gainesville, you knew what the expectations were and Napier, he knows the same as he enters year four. Yeah, I think it's different. I think the expectations are, you know, expectations are relative, expectations are current.

You know, it changes. There is a time where Miami, Florida was anything other than a national title was a failure. And now that's not the case at all. So there's been, expectations are all relative to the current time period. So I don't, I don't, I think they might get back there at some day. When I got there, absolutely. I felt Steve Spurrier every day, every day of my career.

And I'm friends with coach and, but, and he knows, told him that. I felt that visor every fricking day. I wasn't coach Spurrier. We didn't, we did things differently than him, but the expectations were SEC championship and that's a hard ass conference, man. So it's, I think it's a much different animal and was a two, 2025 than it was in 2005. So no conference titles since 2008. in what is it, 2025 than it was in 2005.

So no conference titles since 2008. So are you saying the expectations right now in Gainesville are seven and a half wins in the regular season? No, I'm not saying that, but there was a time it was an SEC title. I don't think it's SEC title at all. I know it's not. You never hear that.

First of all, it's 08 is the last time they won it. So I'd say, no, they got to get back there. Obviously you're talking about one of the best jobs out there, but certainly not, uh, the same expectations when you follow a guy like Spurrier. So how do you get back there? W's man is easy to be on the left-hand side of the column, man, and find a way to lift some hardware. If you do that, then they're back.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. They've got everything to make themselves get back. I like their coach and I like their quarterback. That's a good place to start. Two great places to have wins, right? Make sure to follow, subscribe, rate us on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, as well as across social media.

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