The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - 1: Titus Groan Pt. 1 (In Which We Shoulders)

Episode Date: April 13, 2025

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan and Francine Carrel have emerged from Discworld and are now exploring the worlds of speculative fiction.This week, we enter Gormenghast with Part 1 of our recap of Mervyn Peake’s ‘Titus Groan’...Ribs! Sunlight! Slowly-Growing Insanity! Find us on the internet:BlueSky: @makeyefretpod.bsky.social (not Twitter any more - included in outro through force of habit)Instagram: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretFacebook: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: [e-mail]: www.patreon.com/thetruthshallmakeyefretDiscord: https://discord.gg/29wMyuDHGP Want to follow your hosts and their internet doings? Follow Joanna on BlueSky @2hatsjo and follow Francine @francibambi Things we blathered on about:Apotropaic magic - WikipediaThe Rectory in Red - FolkLandsPeake Studies [Peter Winnington]Collected Articles on Mervyn Peake [Peter Winnington] An Excellence of Peake - Fantastic Metropolis [Michael Moorcock’s article] A profusion of Peake – { feuilleton }  Tolkien vs Lewis: Allegory - R.E. Parrish Comics on tumblr Steerpike illustration by Mervyn PeakeFuschia illustration by Mervyn Peake  Radial Symmetry ("The Hottest Guy on Campus") - R. E. Parrish Comics on tumblr  Music: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.com

cursing things all over the shop, weren't you? Prancing under bladders with black cats walking all over my path. I didn't salute a single magpie. Oh, and they were everywhere, but all of them solitary. Yeah, very weird. You could just tell they had that vibe. There were two of them, but they weren't together. Joanna and I went to a museum for a day of culture recently.

We did. It was a local, an exhibition on local superstitions and folklore. Witchcrafty things. Witchcrafty things. We saw a lot of dug up things. I learned a lot more about the kind of things we put in walls to, what are they called? Tropeic, something like that? Atropaic talismans. Apotropaic. We both missed out a syllable. I think that's too many syllables, personally.

Apotropaic. But yes, that's things that you put in walls, for instance, the petrified cat that hangs in our old local. For instance, a witch bottle. Yep. Which I think we've talked about before. We've definitely talked about witch bottles on this podcast. Yeah, how could we not? Et cetera. Which was cool. Walk past the book bound in the human skin of a murderer because someone was doing a talk at the time and we couldn't really go and have a close look. But also I've been

to that museum, that book's always there. I've seen it before. I think I got a vague idea of what it would look like and I'm not that keen to see it closer. The folk clowns episode that talks about the Red Barn murders, if you want to know more about where we live in a very specific way. Yeah, you can also look up the 18 witches that were hanged here. The fact that one of our prisons was one of the first to have a treadmill for punishment only with no mill attached.

Yeah, it was also one of the early Panopticon prisons was local. Yeah, we heard about that. That was exciting. Little Panopticon connection, we say, with Glee a few hundred years after all those poor suffering men. Well, what are they going to do? Haunt us? I move towns. Maybe. I live in a different town. This one did never Panopticon, huh?

I'm in the suburbs now. I'm out of the historical centre. It's fine. Yeah, I don't think you're on an ancient panopticon graveyard or anything. No. The worst I've got here are some sheeply ghosts. Ghostly sheeps. Yeah, that makes no sense. There we go. Sheeply ghosts. Sheeply ghosts sounds like a quaint English village. Yes, doesn't it? Shall we go for a little day in sheepleet ghosts? We'll have to go to a tea room. We'll take a picnic. Hi, heritage. I'm from the first Propto gods.

But only for sheep. Well, between us we're almost functioning human beings. Hi again, everyone. Oh yeah, sorry, we're back. This is our first episode on the main feed after our hiatus. That's quite exciting. We have to remind ourselves how to podcast. I think we're getting there. This feels about right. This does feel about right. We may have more tribulations when we go into the podcast proper and have to talk about something that isn't Discworld for the first time in five years. We've talked about things other than Discworld

in the last five years, but they were almost all written by Terry Pratchett. Emma I've still made some connections to Pratchett where I can. Gabbard I've kept an eye out. Emma I don't have it. Gabbard If you didn't catch any of our April Fools nonsense listeners or any part of it, we are not a full-time Gorman-Gaas podcast, but we are talking about the first book in the trilogy this month. We are not a full-time Gorman-Garce podcast, but we are

talking about the first book in the trilogy this month and then we're going on adventures throughout the year to all sorts of places. We are, we are. There's a schedule. Featuring. I've seen it, which is unusual. Speaking of podcasts, Joanna. Should we make a podcast? Let's make a podcast. Yes's make a podcast! Yes! Look at us go! I remember that bit. Hello and welcome to The True Show Make You Fret, a podcast in which we were reading

and recapping every book from Terry Pratchett's Discord series in chronological order. And now we've finished that and we're going on all sorts of wild and wonderful journeys. I'm Joanna Hagan. And I'm Francine Carroll. And I've just realised I need to edit the intro down quite a lot. But today we are talking about, this is part one of our discussion of Titus Groan, the first book in Mervyn Peake's Gormunghast trilogy. Yeah. Published in March 1946. So a little while before our previous explorations into literature.

Yes, we've gone back in time. No spoilers, I guess. We're not going to really heavily spoil any Discworld in this podcast. And we won't be spoiling anything past the chapter preparations for Arson. Which kind of spoilers itself. Which kind of spoilers itself. Because I don't think either of us have read past that chapter. No, no. I'm doing my usual. Joanna's taking a new approach and not reading the entire book twice before we start because that would be her entire month even at her reading speed, I think. It's quite a big dense book. Yeah. I've got mine on Kindle, which I'm glad because it didn't intimidate me as much as it might have. I bought a physical copy for those witnessing on the video. It's

all three books in one, so it's hefty, but I did my initial read on Kindle so that I could not have to carry that on the train. Speaking of the book Titus Grone by Mervyn Pinkfrodsen, do you want to introduce us to the book Titus Groen by Mervyn Peake, Francine, do you want to introduce us to the book? Yeah, certainly. Okay. Titus Groen, published March 1946, sold well enough to earn a reprint before the year was out. Nice. Yeah. Peter Winnington, who appears to have dedicated a huge amount of time and expertise to writing about Mervyn Peake and his works, I will link his website, in his article, The Critical Reception of the Titus books said,

when Titus Grone was published in book hungry Britain at the end of March 1946, it was generally well received with reservations. Mervyn Peake was already known as a poet and illustrator. Many reviewers compared his novel with his previous work and found it less successful. It was quite hard to categorize, especially was one of the problems. It was quite hard to categorize, especially was one of the problems. Yeah. It's not exactly a gothic novel. It's not exactly fantasy. It's not really anything easily labeled.

When they released in the US, by the way, the publisher did put a little subheading a gothic novel, which annoyed Marvin Peake or worried him at least and confused a lot of the reviewers, or at least kind of tainted, not tainted, flavored their reviews. Tinted, that's the word between the two things. Yeah, I'm not really sure what the public perception on Gothic literature was in the 1940s in America or England to be fair. No, it's certainly nothing like Dracula. No.

That was the, yeah. No, I mean, it will get to that. But Mervyn Peake himself was a really interesting fellow. Very, very briefly. He was born in China in 1911. He was the son of missionaries. He lived in Sark for a while in an artist's colony. He married Sark's one of the Channel Islands, by the way, listen to see on as familiar with them. He married an artist, Maeve Gilmore, and he was himself an accomplished artist. There's a snippet from the timeline on Winnington's website that's a little too good to leave out. October 1939, publication of Captain Slaughterboard Drops Anchor,

a handwritten illustrated pirate story for children. Considered by some critics as too grotesque for small children, it sold slowly and then at the end of 1940 stocks were destroyed in a warehouse fire. Oh, that's very Gormunghast. He was conscripted for World War Two and he became a war artist. In fact, he was one of the first onto the Belsen concentration camp after its liberation, although by that point he had been discharged on medical grounds and so he went to the civilian.

While he was still in the army, he had a nervous breakdown 1942 and wrote part of Titus Groen as part of his therapy. It was released in March 1946 as mentioned. And then I think probably more on his biography later because there's a lot more to say, but it's not. We've hit that point now. Yes, we're at Titus Groen. Yeah. He was, as we're saying, around at the same time as the Inklings and active at the same time. So Tolkien, C.S. Lewis et al. Lewis was a fan. Michael Moorcock wrote a really good article called An Excellence of Peek, which I'll link to. Actually, I should mention now, I'm going to reference a few articles and link them in the show notes. Probably don't read them unless or until you've read the books or if you don't care about spoilers that much. Because they do just drop in made up plot points to illustrate their points. Yeah, no, I did a small amount of reading earlier and have not been spoiled on quite a lot that

happens across the trilogy, but that's fine. I don't mind them. Yeah, exactly. We don't care, but some people do. Moorcock wrote in his article, people who didn't know him very well often said Mervyn Peake's books were so darkly complex that writing them had sent him mad. Others, who perhaps knew him a little better, understood how cleverly Peake was formalizing his own experience and observations. He was one of the most deeply sane individuals you could hope to meet. Peek's wife wrote a wonderful, I'm saying wonderful because that's what everyone said. I should read it though. An autobiography that talked about Mervyn Peek and just described him as like this wonderful,

like romantic deep guy. He just sounds great, honestly. Are we formulating slight crushes on Mervyn Peek as we go through this? I don't know. I don't think so. Like respectful crushes on Marvin Peak as we go through this? I don't know. I don't think so. Like respectful crushes? Respectful crush? Yeah, perhaps. Have you seen many pictures of him? No, I haven't actually. Let me send you the one. Oh, yeah, no, I could respectfully crush on that. Yeah.

I feel like he's one of those people that if you saw him like talk and move, very attractive and reasonably attractive still. And he's wearing a very good jumper. We do like a jumper. We do like a jumper. I do like a good jumper on a man. Yeah, and he's got a pipe, very inklings. Yeah, well, I mean, he's a fantasy writer of a certain age. He is. You all know about fantasy writers of a certain age.

He was, it must be said, often compared to Tolkien and often unfavourably, although it didn't seem to bother him. Morecock writes, he was always badly served by comparisons with Tolkien because he was Tolkien's antithesis. Peek spoke of his artistic experiments as the smashing of another window pane. He wasn't looking for reassurance. He was looking for truth. I rather thought I was writing for grownups. He said mildly, I can't see that I have anything in common with Tolkien. writing for grownups, he said mildly, I can't see that I have anything in common with Tolkien. Oh, catty. I know. Lewis apparently like, went out of his way to warn peak about people who were thinking of his books as religious allegory. Which peak, although he was the son of missionaries, it was just like,

that's fine. They can think that, it's not. But coming from Mr. Allegory himself. Yeah, Lewis and Tolkien friendship, one of them, this has nothing to do with my experience of war. I need everyone to know that the lion is Jesus. Or I will die. It's really important that you know that the lion is Jesus. If I can find that meme, I'll add it to the show notes. That's important. Oh, sorry, sidebar, but current online outrage. You know, Greta Gerwig's doing an

adaptation of Narnia for Netflix? No. Oh, Greta Gerwig's doing an adaptation of Narnia for Netflix and apparently Emma Thompson is in talks to play as Lan, so obviously the internet is up in arms. I like Emma Thompson. I don't have Netflix at the moment. I'll let you watch it and then tell me if it's worth getting Netflix for a month. I don't think it's even been started, principal photography yet, so it'll be a while. But yes, I will pre-watch it for you. I doubt it'll be worth getting Netflix for a month just

for that. Speaking of, have you seen any or heard any of the Gormenghast adaptations? I haven't. A lot of people, as we've had the ongoing joke about not reading Gormenghast, have recommended the BBC one that adapts the first two books. It has John Rhys-Myerson as the person who's currently the character I'm most interested in in this book. I probably will watch I'll be in Scotland before you. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. Gabbin Exactly. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.

Gabbin Exactly. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.

Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. Emma I'll be a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. fantastic because I think what happened was we sort of said this seems like it's a reference to something and we don't know what and then lots of people told us Gormengast and that's how the

bit started. Gormengast was name checked in We're Sisters so I was wondering if it was that. I could have looked through the transcripts but I didn't. I considered going back and having a look but I remembered that I wanted to do that at like, yeah, about an hour ago, so 15 minutes before we started recording. Listeners with good memories, let us know. Remember how the Gorm – Don't go back and like, don't go to all that, so. Yeah.

But if you remember – Yeah. But yeah, so we've had an ongoing bit for five – for some reason I was the focus of the bit as well, despite neither of us having read Gormengast, but just an ongoing five-year bit. Emma- Well, it seems like something you'd have read. Speaking of Pratchett, actually, more recently, obviously, comparisons to various Pratchett works have been made, especially Pyramids. Don't Google that or you'll find spoilers for the entire series on every page you click

on. Pratchett was a fan of the series, and does name check it at least once in Weird Sisters. And I'm pretty sure again, referencing some university stuff. But yeah, the pyramids parallels are quite interesting. I hadn't really thought about them until I was, to be honest, I googled project Gormengast. Storm and Gust. Yeah, that's fair. I respect that. I think there's obviously like a lot of less, less, what's the word, spelled out influences in this world as well. One of Peake's poems, for instance, where London is described as a woman, I kind of saw echoes of how Fine Sinks Vanquore Pork. Her breasts a crumbling brick, her rusted

robes like railings round her heart. Oh, that's fantastic. Isn't it? His poetry is great, actually. I mean, we see some of it in this, but... Yeah, I might have to go very into his poetry and illustrations at some point. He'll become a big peak head. Everyone in the book seems to have some kind of interesting head shape, so why not? Yeah, that is definitely a running theme. Emma There's a few motifs and I'm going to say odd-shaped heads is one of the less poetic.

Gabbard But yeah, also the Pratchett connection stuff, the fact that this plays with the idea of English gentry is then heavily lampooned in Pratchett and I think there's definitely shared DNA there. Emma Yeah, it's a less lighthearted skewering of things like academia and rules and stuffiness. Yes. Obviously Pratchett hated the stuffiness and the rules and the nonsense, but I think he managed to keep levity throughout. Yeah.

Whereas this, as I said to you earlier, I think I'm insane now. Yeah, I do feel like this is permanently altered my brain chemistry. I'm kind of starting to narrate myself walking around in that awful, not awful, but awful when it's you. Yeah. Kind of descriptive, unflattering metaphor. I was thinking of it because I struggled, you know, going into how it feels to talk about a new book and someone who by someone who isn't Terry Pratchett, which in itself is just very weird and thinking about how we it feels to talk about a new book by someone who isn't Terry

Bratchett, which in itself is just very weird and thinking about how we're going to podcast about it. We are going to structure this a little bit differently, dear listeners, because if I try and summarize the plot at the top- I'll just walk away at some point. We won't get any- there's not that much plot, but yeah, it took me a while to hook my brain onto this and get it going in the right direction. I actually had to think of it more as gothic literature than fantasy to do that because I think it does owe a fair bit to that. It wasn't until I was chatting to a friend the other day about doing this and he mentioned

like, oh yeah, this is pre-Tolkien fantasy. Most of the pre-Tolkien fantasies slash supernatural books I read are firmly in the Gothic literature, Kerendon. So it's late 19th, early 20th century. Yeah. It's fantasy before we call it fantasy, I suppose. It's just literature at this point. It's almost Dickensian in its flow, isn't it? Especially as it's all chopped up like a Dickensian serial-termed book. Yeah, there's sort of short little chapters and the occasional feeling that maybe someone's writing towards a word count, which I don't think is actually about the book. Once I hooked

my brain into the wonderful meandering wanderings of it. I started enjoying it a lot more. Okay. You explain to the listeners what we're going to be doing and then we'll dive in. Dive in, shall we? So as I said, yeah, we're structuring this differently because otherwise I think we'll be talking about too much completely out of context. There's not a lot of context to begin with, so we're going to go chapter by chapter and I'm going to briefly detail what happens in each chapter and then we're going to pick out some bits we like and talk about it and see if this accidentally becomes a three hour podcast

because there's quite a lot of chapters. Niamh And I'll tell you now, if it does, you're getting all three hours listeners. Clara Yes, you are. We are not editing this down. Niamh I feel like trying to edit down a Gorman Glass podcast would just be like getting lost in the castle, right? Clara It goes against the spirit of the thing, certainly. So as it is the 11th day of the fourth month that this time in the evening and the moon is a certain shape, shall we put on our left elbow hats? Also listeners, new game instead of that's your band name or your new album,

that's your Gormengar's chapter. Actually, honestly, talking about just Pratchett Connections and you know how much I love Pratchett doing funny lists, just reading out the chapter headings, because I had to write them all out to do the plan for this, mildly delightful. Oh, nice. I'm glad. If you want a little treat listener, grab your copy of Gorman-Gast or Titus Groen, I'm sure you've acquired one. Just read all the chapter headings aloud to yourself in order. Before we dive in, this section will go up to and include preparations for arson. Nice cliffhanger ending. We don't know what's going to happen after that.

I'm assuming arson. Maybe. Wild guess. I prefer all sorts of things I don't do. You know, subtle foreshadowing. I think there might be some arson. Right. Brief arson intellect. Brief arson intellect. Let's not do that on the podcast. I like my house.

No, no. Right. So we'll begin with the first chapter, the Hall of Bright Carvings, in which we experience the Festival of Carvings, meet Rotgord and his duster, and Flay delivers news of a newborn Gormengast heir. One thing I have done is given us room to pick out a favourite quote or bit of description, and I won't necessarily do that for every chapter but there's too many good ones to not say them. Niamh There are, there are. You can see where I had to kind of control myself in my highlights on Kindle. So for the first couple chapters

it's just highlight after highlight and after that you're like, oh the hits keep coming, I can't. Clara You can see a similar thing. For me it's density of post-it notes but it's very much the same thing. So for this section, just quickly, the description of the Tower of Flint's, this tower patched unevenly with black ivy, arose like a mutilated finger from among the fists of knuckled masonry and pointed blasphemously at heaven. Beautiful. So yeah, from the off, I think here, you're either gonna get into this or not. Right?

From chapter one, from chapter two, the Hall of Bright Carvings, because we don't use numbers in this place. Yeah, that helped me greatly. It's made it hard to organize my notes, I'll tell you that. But that's really my fault for not doing it properly at the start, like you did with headings and things. I really did think like from the off, just the charming idea of the bright carvings kind of hooked me and it's kind of hinting immediately at this arcane

lore and history and the weird society, kind of the rhythm of everything. The fact that everything has this strict set of rules and it is constantly flowed and very unchanging. Yeah. And then obviously immediately ruining the chapter by chapter skipping ahead, you get the agents of change into the stillness and that's always a woo woo. Yes, love and agent of change. Yeah. All the alliteration, the unusual metaphor, the weird emotional as well as physical descriptions of all the people and objects, straight away I think we get the idea of this and if you

can like it, you can like it. Yeah. And this idea of the relationship between the inside and outside. Straight away, I think we get the idea of this and if you're going to like it, you're going to like it. Niamh Yeah. This idea of the relationship between the inside and outside, which comes up in the book, especially with the character of Cater. But this idea that the privilege of wandering the battlements at full moon every other month, and there is an entire subsect of being talented artists based entirely around that and the carvings are their entire lives. Then you go to Rock Hood, this character, because we're introduced to the Hall of Bright Carvings where all of these carvings live. No one ever comes to look at these works of art. It's

just this one man dusting the dust off them. No one's even doing anything with the dust once it hits the floor. Niamh. Tragically enough, I was thinking that as I was reading it, I was like, you need to wet dust that. You're just moving the dust around, my friend. But that's the point. What's it going to do otherwise? Gina – It's not about what needs to be done in the best way. It's about what is always done. So Rock Hod delighted me as a very small character who exists to do this one thing.

Niamh – I agree. And as the first character, I thought it was a really interesting choice of like Rock Hod then gets to introduce through his point of view, a more important character. Yes, in Flay. Yeah, I think that's really cool. We get to know Rock Hod because he's quite simple, very well in a very short amount of time. And then we're like, right, passing you over. The whole kind of opening of this book and the way it jumps like point of view to point of view to point of view is really fun. At one point the book stops and says, and so this is where everyone was on this day. Yes, and like, thank you.

Right, right, right, right. Right, we are on the same day. The timeline occasionally jumps back and forwards and that confused me as Joanna, a very little brain on occasion. But yeah, Flay and his sepulcrave servant with his constantly cracking knee joints. I felt personally attacked by that. Well, if it helps, I don't think I can follow you through dark corridors going entirely by that, largely because my own are crackling. Yeah, I was going to say. You'll just mix up whose knees are cracking at any point in

time. But I think it's also a great way of interesting, Fle, him realising to himself why he's gone to Rockhod to announce the birth. In fact, he's done it because he knows that's the only person who won't already know and he gets to have that. I think that gives you so much about the character in one tiny little shifter point of view. You get to see a thought process as well, so you get to immediately know he's not just like this very self-analytical person all the time. He does have to plod through this in his head. As he's walking down the halls of Gormunghast. Even this first scene has little moments of, I'm gonna say, I know it's before but little

praxity and mirth. Like the phrase he lay deeply hammocked, delightful. Yes. An eye which was not his, being not only of a different colour but being, which is more convincing on the other side of the door. It's engaging, it does grab you straight away. You immediately want to know, okay, so if that happens in this one room, what happens in all of the other rooms? Which also, just a question I have and I don't know, again, we haven't read Headlessness so if this is answered in a later book then maybe we'll find out. But where do the servants come from? Because it seems like there's such

a separation between the castle and the outer dwellings, but then the servants can't all be related to the groans. LW – Well, yeah, I think the original set of servants might have come in from the outside in quite a normal way. And then it's hereditary, isn't it? MG – Yeah, I was wondering if it was hereditary servitude. Because there's a lot of them, well we'll talk about later, but some of them are physically like, have physical aptitude for their tasks. There's also some clues that they do occasionally come in from the outside, like the gardener that Serge was born outside, so I guess when

they need someone they go grab someone, like with the wet nurse. But it's very interesting, like, thinking, like makes you think of the castle as more of an ecosystem. Yeah. And I think there are clues that maybe it was a little bit more open at this time or another, like one of the Earls coming up with that greeting and retort. Yeah. And things like the fact that the Arch should have lots of servants and obviously that means there would have at one point probably been a lot more servants. Yeah. Mass redundancies. Mass redundancies.

You know, it's the economy. Actually, we move forward to the kitchen. Let's move forward to the kitchen. The great kitchen in which Flay visits the kitchen, the place he hates, and witnesses drunken scrubbers. I don't want no scrubbers. Scrubbers and all the description around them, they're just mildly horrifying again and talking about servants bred for a task. The way they're all described as

vaguely simian in the same shape is immediately unsettling in a really fun way to read. It is, yeah. I like that Flay admits to himself, you don't know what's going on in those heads. He doesn't think there's nothing. It's just like, no idea. Not my business really. Walls are clean, great. Don't need to know beyond that as long as the walls are clean. His ongoing approval of the join the merriment and the break from tradition is being part of the tradition. Yes, because everyone does need to be very much celebrating the new era. Did you have

a favourite line from this chapter? I don't think I do actually, do you? Gabbard Yes, I do. I won't read the whole bit, but the stockpots were perpetually simmering, having boiled over and the flora mountain was a mess of sepia fluid and eggshells. The sawdust covered in splashings of wine and the blobs of fat had been trolled in and sawdust. It viscerally upset me. I was stressed reading this chapter in a good way. Niamh This one and the next one just made me feel kind of hungover. Like coming to work in hospitality after a bad night out.

Gina That kind of hungover where you really feel like you need a shower no matter how many showers you have. Niamh Yeah, yeah. And you just walk into this kitchen that stinks of grease. Oh my gosh. And there's a chef shouting at you. Yeah. I forgot to mention, we're on the eighth day of the eighth month. Ah. Eighth. Interesting. Eighth. Ominous. I mean, we know they're ominous.

Yeah. What did Marvin Peak know? I don't know. We'll find out, I expect. there's a lot of numerology around the edges of this. There is. I did no research into it because I thought I'd end up on websites that would annoy me. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Moving forward then to the next because this is quite a short bit and then we go into Svelter which Svelter the chef addresses his apprentices while a disdainful apprentice stays quiet

and an attempt at serenading said apprentice leads to Svelter's collapse. Yes. Again, a real continuation of the previous unpleasant chapter. Again, unpleasant in a good way, still feeling the hangover at this point. My favourite quote about Svelter, because most of it's really like, oh, ends up being a little repeating motif that I've noticed through the book. So, okay. So, one of the blotches of reflected sunlight swayed to and fro across the porch. This is Flay watching him. This particular pool of light moving in a mesmeric manner backwards and forwards, picked out from time to time, a long red island of spilled wine. It seemed to leap forward from the mottled cloth when the light fastened upon it in startling contrast to the chiaroscuro and to defy the laws of tone."

Which I love because ongoing through this book, the motif of the sun intruding and picking out colors and saturating little bits is amazing. Later we have the lawns being black with dew but a shaft of sun falling in a little pool of light, the wet grass blazed with diamonds of every colour, and a narrow beam of sunlight lighting Fuchsia's forehead and shoulder and plucking a note of crimson from her dress and all that. Yeah. Nice, Matthea. You can tell this is written by an artist.

Oh yes. Because everything is about how the lights and the interplay and the shadows. What about you? Oh, everything about Svelte really fascinates me because we've immediately been introduced to Fle and then here we have his antithesis who is so gross and so uncontrolled, not just in physical appearance but in how he's expressing himself. Fle in general approves of merriment in this specific case, not so much because he just fucking hates Svelte so much. He would never do this. Just from reading this section of the book, I cannot imagine Flay drunk. Niamh No. And if he did, it would be this kind of silent drunk where you look exactly the same until you fall forward onto your table, right?

Clara Yeah, exactly. The description of Svelte when he falls, when the wine cask is on collapses, A catalytic mass of wine drenched blubber. LH – Beautiful. JL – Just a cracking, also mildly disgusting line. LH – Did you have a favourite term of endearment through his little speech? JL – I didn't note any down. LH – I'm going to put in my ray of adult sunshine. JL – Delightful.

LH – That's my favourite. And I think I might have been able to guess yours, which is my ghastly little ineffectual fillet. Niamh Yes, perfect. We will take that. Emma Also, his first name is Abiatha. Niamh Yeah, I love that. Not going to look it up, but love it as a line, as a name. Then we go forward to the stone lanes in which Steer Pike, the uninterested apprentice, follows Fle out of the kitchens and is shown a room full of cats. This is the introduction of Steer Pike who is the

character played by John Rhys Myers in the BBC adaptation that I've not watched yet. He's our first catalyst as it turns out. He's our big agent of change and yeah, he is the person driving the book forward. Marvin Peake did a really good illustration of the link in the thing. There's a great description of him later. Oh, that is good. Very cheekbone-y, very high forehead. Yeah, exactly. At one point, he was compared by John Savage, I think, I don't know if I can write it down, to Johnny Rotten of the Sex Pistols in a newspaper article.

Oh, I can see that. Yeah, and the article that quoted it, which I will link to again, noted that this was probably the only time peak and the punk movement have been connected in any context. Which for a fantasy author, it's actually kind of weird because quite often there's like, well, maybe not so much the punk movement, but there's definitely overlap between fantasy authors and a lot of rock music. Yeah. Why do I always sound so disdainful when I describe a genre of music?

I sound rock music. I sound like I'm holding sound so disdainful when I describe a genre of music? I sound rock music. I sound like I'm holding a dead toad at arm's length. Oh, you'll never add to me where I managed to say punk music for some kind of disdain while talking to Mark Burroughs for the first time. I think it was punk band. Oh, you play in a punk band, don't you? I play in a punk band. It was some of the only gigs I've been to at Stey. Yep, no, same, but we can't say it without sounding very middle-arsed, middle-class and middle-aged. Middle-arsed, yeah. I'm gonna say middle-arsed. Oh dear.

Yeah, Steerpike immediately introduces someone who has ideas above his station, kind of almost ingratiates himself with Flay by just hating Svelta, which is enough to give him a little bit of leeway at least. The line at the end of the chapter, the deep unhurried purring was like the voice of an ocean in the throat of the shell. Gorgeous. Oh, the drama. The drama of him swooning in this bit as well. I feel like despite him being the illogical character, the straight man at this point, just the fact that he's still swooning from exhaustion,

it's all so dramatic. I'm amazed there have been no smelling salts. G. I feel like someone needs to get there because this is not the only time Steer Pike swoons and to be fair he goes through a lot more physical deprivation than most of the other characters. I feel like we do need to get the – actually no, he does get a fainting couch later on, he literally faints on a couch, doesn't he? But before we get to that, we visit the spy hole in which Flay shows Stearpike the Countess' door and Stearpike overhears the Doctor and the Earl of Grown discussing the new heir's violet eyes and irregular face in which we meet Prune Squallor and Sepplegrove.

Niamh – Not a fan. Sepplegrove, fine. Not a fan of Prune Squallor immediately. Clara – I'm not a fan of Prune Squallor, but best character name in the book. Prune Squallor, delight to say. Niamh – Controversial. Controversial. I think because I dislike him so much, I'm not a fan of Prune Squalor but best character name in the book, Prune Squalor, delight to say. Controversial, controversial. I think because I dislike him so much, I've taken against his name a bit, you know? Oh, right, yeah. I personally delight in the name Prune Squalor. But I can't immediately think of a better one so you might be right. I do think he's an interesting character because the laugh makes him so unlikable immediately to

everyone around him ever. Niamh – Oh, but having a laugh is part of his speech, Sutton. Is that a reminder of? Stacey – Oh yeah, Casser has that, doesn't he? Niamh – Yeah. A few other practical characters and villains actually. Immediately to me he goes, oh, villain! Stacey – Yes, but he's also really obsequious and gives off this constant slight social climber vibe, which when you think he's being put against – he's being witnessed by Sterepike, who

is the ultimate social climber in this book, it's delightful that he's also – Prune Scaller is just kind of a bit of an idiot, or just so totally unaware that he thinks he is charming the people around him. He's very loquacious. Yes. And I think in this environment that is mainly slow, rarely speaking people, that comes across as quick witted. But if you read the contents of it, it's not. No it's not. It's incredibly dull witted. It's very annoying. Also, because this is something I will end up keeping track of and something I've got a habit of keeping track of from reading Discworld books, as far as I know in this section, we're never from Prince Gwala's point of view, which I just always find interesting in a character

whose point of view we're in. Especially the way this book switches points of view, moves from one to the other, especially this opening bit where it's all like vignettes kind of flowing into the other. especially this opening bit where it's all like vignettes kind of flowing in. Yeah, you'd almost expect the relay to stick to be past her, wouldn't you? The baton. Also note octagonal room. Just keeping my eye on that tricksy little eight. Yes, many of them. And then Fuchsia. Fuchsia, my favourite. Yes, she's obviously a favourite because she's a star and I love her. In a Witch, the El's daughter, Fuchsia makes her entrance, learns of her new brother and

Flay locks up a chatty stear pike. The description? Did you feel a little creeped out by it as well? I felt more creeped out about it after I'd read other bits of description about her and then kind of went back to my nose. Yeah, I did notice she was ghost in movement and in a sense uglier face, but with how small a twist might she not suddenly become beautiful. Her sullen mouth was fun and rich and her eyes smoldered. Yeah, there's at one point her lips are described as startlingly mature or something and that's what made me want, oh, don't like this.

I feel like also we both just have a constant alert for is there going to be weird stuff about young girls, especially when reading fantasy, anything maybe a little bit older, but also a lot of modern fantasy. We're very protective over 15-year-olds in general. Having been them. I like her hair like a pirate flag though, that's good. Yes. I like the description of her standing as Ersin Wye in these very uncomfortable looking

angles and almost hunched. I was thinking about the 1920s fashion where it suddenly became fashionable to be very thin and stand quite hunched and wonky. LW – Yeah. G – And like, Mervyn Peake must have sort of maybe witnessed a bit of that when he was younger. LW – Mmm. Spits a corny weeb. G – Yeah, a little bit actually. LW – I know she's got great posture, but I can imagine she could do those poses. G – Yeah, you need to have a lot of shoulder. I'm wearing a drop shoulder cardigan so I really can't model this. We're just now on a video wiggling our shoulders at each other.

This is an audio medium. I think you can hear the shoulders. I think now we're doing the shoulders, we've got more gravitas. That's true, true. I sound like an 80s girl boss. I didn't mean to say girl boss. You know what I mean? Boss. Yeah. Of a feminine variety.

Worse. Okay. I just looked at you put a link in the thing as well of some illustrations of future. And I love that. I do like the illustrations. Like he doesn't like he's not precious about their appearances. Yes, they look odd. That's an interesting thing about them. It's not important exactly how they look. They're allowed to look weird. Niamh. Young Titus himself apparently has a somewhat irregular face. Emma. Yes. Yes. So I overheard through the people. Niamh. We don't want that bandied about the castle now, do we? Emma. No, we do not. Look, that poor boy in a cupboard. Surely he won't escape.

Definitely not. Just leave him in a cupboard. Tallow and birdseed. Fantastic combination. My favourites. In a witch, a candelabra drips as the Countess catches up with her avian allies, especially Mr. Chalk the White Rook. Mr. Chalk the White Rook, obviously my favourite character in the whole book. Oh yes. Wants a great tree full of forgiveness for his heavy old beak and months of absolution for his plumage. Absolutely. I agree. I would forgive Mr. Chalk. I'd forgive Mr. Chalk. I quite like Mr. Chalk. And yes, we meet the Countess of Groen who

so far her entire personality seems to be birds, vacancy and bulk. And cats. And cats, yes. But the cats aren't currently in the room with her. Tepik's mother, by the way, very into cats. Ah. A Gormengast reference or an Ancient Egypt reference? Both, I imagine. It's Pratchett.

Yeah, good point. Actually, I wonder if there's meant to be something of the ideas of Egypt in the Countess and her cats. Possibly so. Yeah. I mean, otherwise it feels like a weird choice to be very into cats and birds. And having the hair piled on top of her head like that. Yeah. But again, just gorgeous the visual description of it, the tallow dripping being hypnotized by this slowly growing pyramid of wax. Was the countess what you expected from the little hints we had in the first few pages?

MG. Kind of. I fully expected this would be her and her husband in no way give a fuck about each other, the political marriage, that sort of thing. I thought she'd be quite absent. I didn't think she'd be quite so actually moving into the next chapter as well, like, altering for Titus, in which Nannyanny Sag introduces the Countess to young Titus. She calls for the doctor, plans to get up, Nanny Sag sends the baby away and sends Nanny off for a wetness. LW That's the best name, I'm sorry, hearing someone else say it aloud. MG She was either going to be an incredibly devoted or entirely absentee mother and I'm not really surprised it was the latter.

I was imagining melancholy, tuberculosis-y, what consumption would be the term, wouldn't it? Kind of had been brought from another country and disliked it, you know, the Spanish princess type trope. Oh, yeah. Just from what I was imagining. But I kind of like this. I like her vitality. I like her insistence. I shall get up. I shall have my life and my cats. Yes. She's not quite Dino-ish, but she's very tuned into the base joys of Earth.

Yeah. And I feel like there's also a sense of, I must be in this castle with this ritual and I shall take whatever joys I can take. Yes, and they are cats. And they are cats and not seeing my child for six years, give him a ring and find him a wet house. Bring back 26. I support women's wrongs as well as rights and I'm not even sure it's a wrong. Feminist. Feminism. My favorite quote from this chapter is just a single word and it's tippling.

My favourite quote from this chapter is just a single word and it's tippling. Tippling, tippling. It's beautiful. Some of the little half inappropriate, sometimes half made up words throughout this I love. Yes, very much so. And yeah, this is the introduction of Nanny Slag, who is a character I adore. I'll still laugh at things, you know, promise. No, I can't stop giggling to myself reading the book every time I see Nanny Slag.

I mean, it's what I'm growing up to be, obviously. She does a nice little bit of foreshadow as she walks in, bearing in her arms the air to the miles of rambling stone and mortar, to the tower of flints and the stagnant moat, to the angular mountains and the lime green river where twelve years later he would be angling for the hideous fishes of his inheritance. I think that's foreshadow and not very obscure metaphor. It's foreshadowing that in 12 years he's going fishing. Yeah.

Which I assume- And why not? Yeah. I mean, if he wants to go fishing in 12 years, he should go fishing in 12 years. He's heir to Gormengast. He should be foreshadowed so we're not shocked. Otherwise, I would be appalled. Fishing in my Gorman gust? Never. I'll fish in your Gorman gust. Sorry. That's probably... No, Nanny Slagg. The little vocal tick of just constantly peppering her speech with the bless his little lordship's hearts. The way it falls in the sentences of trying

to deliver this information to someone who could not give a fuck that the child has had a bath or is even alive. Yeah. Who's had a bath? The child. Oh, okay. What do you want me to do with it? I think she's kind of twittering around, waiting for the confirmation that it's going to be her job to bring up the child. Yeah. Because it's never confirmed. I don't think anyone's position ever feels 100% safe in this castle. No, which is weird for everything so like, scored into stone.

Yes. But then there's this idea of, if you're looking at it as mildly mocking this class system within England, then there's a sense of, yes, servants are disposable. Yeah, yeah. If you look at like Cader's role, she's brought in from the village to do this one job and then she goes back and there is zero fanfare. I am now a different person because I have worked in Gorman Girls for a month. Or I don't know, dispensation, pay extra food or anything sent down to her. No, no, no. Absolutely not. However, I think it's also probably going to reflect the reality of these situations, which is once you may think of somebody as disposable, but they

become indispensable quite quickly and things fall apart a little bit. Yes. We shall see. We shall see. Moving forward to Sapplecrave. Sapplecrave. In which Lord Sapplecrave takes breakfast and sourdouse lays out the rituals of the day. Oh, what a nice sounding breakfast and how sad to see it go cold. The fishes and the slices of melon and such. Toast piled up pagoda-wise. G! I loved that description. L! Fish with tails in their mouths lay coiled in sea-blue saucers. I want to paint just this tablescape. G! Again, coming from an artist and all of this description, I've stopped to paint a

picture in the book because I think that's what we should do. We are like four or five chapters in and the plot has absolutely not turned up at all yet, but let's stop and paint a tablescape. This is not a criticism. I very much am enjoying this about the book. Yeah. Absolutely. We are establishing. This is a very, very, very long establishing shot. A very long establishing shot. I'm very curious to watch the adaptation and see how much of it lingers on the details and prettiness. I like that this in this section you get a real feel for the faded grandeur of the whole place. When he's looking at the painting on the ceiling. Cherubs pursue each other across a waste of flaking

sky. Their paintings his great grandfather did and so it's not that long since stuff started fraying around the seams like this. Yeah. Which makes you wonder if something in particular has happened to the castle. Yeah. Whether it's just reaching its natural end of this long, long nonsense. Or if at some point an Earl, maybe Titus Groenor, grow up and decide the chareb should be repainted. Well, hopefully. I assume that's what we're going towards. I hope so, yeah. The restoration of the friezes.

I assume that is the entire point of the book. Seppelgrave's an interesting one because you get this sort of thing about his relationship to Gormengast and how could he love at this place? He was a part of it. He couldn't imagine a world outside of it. Like, loving Gormengast, asking him of his feelings for it would be like asking him how well his feelings were towards his own hand or throat. And so I think there's something, the fraying around the edges is because Sepulchre is so complacent in his life and role within Gormungast. Niamh Yeah, and is really a part of the building.

The building has this personality, has the soul to it and he's part of that soul. Sarah Rather than an indistinct separate soul with his own wants or needs. Niamh One does wonder whether he would be a less melancholic person if the place was freshened up a bit. You'd hope. Maybe we should have a word. Whether it would be a cause and effect like that. Or whether if he gave the Count a fresh coat of paint, would that then make the castle better? I feel like it's probably better to paint this castle than the Count.

That sounds like an old saying, doesn't it? Better to paint the castle than the Count, if you know what I mean. I don't. That doesn't matter. And Sourdust, just to throw in another line of description I really like, his face was very lined as though it had been made of brown paper that had been crunched by some savage hand before being hastily smoothed out and spread over the tissues. LW – Do we know why the ninth is a heavy day? Have we found out yet? Do you think we ever will? MG – No, I don't think so. I think just the ninth is a heavy day for the same reason that

the height and hair colour of the earl affect which tome they pull the rituals from and such. I was looking at the rituals and I feel like the role of ritual in this is the things are done this way because they've always been done. But a bit of me because I know I'm reading a fantasy book is like, oh, I wonder if something supernatural is going to happen if a ritual is not done. I don't think that's the case. Niamh No, I love one of the books being blank. Sarah Yes. Niamh That's a weird detail.

Sarah But we have to keep it around just in case. NARESH Yeah, exactly. CHARLEYY There's also a bit of a sense of, you know when you get post-apocalyptic media, like something like Horizon Zero Dawn, where there's all this stuff around and we don't know what it's for and we've come up with our interpretation of it and it's interesting as an audience member because you know what it's for. De-familiarisation, but in a particular. There's a sense of that here, like I wonder if all of these rituals originally had very distinct purposes and the meaning is totally lost.

Yeah, yeah I like that. Yeah, post-apocalyptic Gormengust. Yeah. Should we move forward to Prune Squad's kneecap? In which, leaping back in time, Fuchsia demands a breakfast and Prune Squad delivers Nanny the news. Yeah, we do do a lot of time leaping. It is so far reasonably easy to keep up with, but it takes a little bit of, oh hang on. Yep. It's usually only 24 hours either direction.

The Nanny and Prune Squad, what is with sitting on his knee that bit? I was uncomfortable. Didn't like it. Niamh I felt like it was just in case we weren't sure that he was an objectionable twat. Ange He made nanny sit on his knee. Niamh And it really underlined the, he patronises her like a child. Ange Yeah, because he's in this weird level in

the social strata of the castle as well where he considers himself above the majority of the other servants, but really isn't nanny a bit more essential or do I just like her more? Is a nanny more essential than a doctor? I think that's something you'd have to bring up with nanny og. Yes, well exactly. I'd choose nanny og over Dr. Lorne. Over Prune Squalor certainly. Over Prune Squalor. I'd choose most disco characters over Prune Squalor. But Lorne? I mean Lorne is my favourite and there's not that

many doctors on the Discworld. I'm a big fan of Lorne. But if I had... Lorne wouldn't bring up this argument. That's a good point. Lorne is good enough to go, oh Nanny Og seems like a better midwife than me. Go on. Yeah. I'll sedate this horse while you're at it. CHARLEYY Yeah. Lawn wouldn't make anyone sit on his knee. NARESH No, that's the point. CHARLEYY Yeah. That's what really matters. It was a very weird scene. NARESH It was weird. Yeah.

CHARLEYY And not in the like, this book is weird and unsettling and everything happens oddly. There was a bit of that to it because it's an odd choice. I'm going to stop you here and ask you to sit on my knee while I tell you this thing. Yeah, yeah. No. You've written clouds. Oh yeah, there's a few having a ramble. This is seven rather than eight. But we get a cloud magpie rhyme. Oh yeah. Which, really, I tried to look this up but I ended up just Googling cloud superstitions

so all I got was weird tech stuff, like the odd things techies do to make servers run. Yeah, you'll be thrilled to know I've left my superstitions back downstairs. Ah, a shame. Well, look it up for next week. That's your homework. I also got a lot of stuff about sailors superstitions and things, which is always delightful. But yeah, Future has seen seven clouds. She's made note of this. Seven is four something. So it's one for a golden grave, two for a terrible torch of tin, three for a hundred hollow horses, four for a knight with a spur of speargrass, five for a fish with fortunate fins, six, a forgotten six, and what's seven for? Eight for a frog with eyes like marbles, nine for something and ten for a tower of turbulent toast. Clearly it wasn't stacked pagoda style.

But what is seven? What is seven? But what is seven? I love that. Whimsy, whimsy. Again, the poet side of it as well as the illustrator side of it, taking the time to stop and draw these beautiful tablescapes and taking the time to stop and write a sort of not quite magpie rhyme, not quite poem about clouds. Yeah, he's like, do you know what? There's enough magpie rhymes. I'm going to write the cloud magpie rhyme.

The terrible torch of tin. What a great pair of nonsense. Hundred holly horses. A hundred holly horses. I'm not sure a horse should be hollow. I'm imagining them as the clay horses, you know? Oh yeah. I think it's the Trojan horse makes me worried about hollow horses. What with all of the soldiers inside them. Yeah. I think as long as you... What was the moral of that story? Bring them inside gates so that they don't get cold. Yeah, that's exactly it. Don't leave your Trojan horses outside to get chilly. Anyone could take it. Anyone could take it. And then what are you going to do? Then you don't have a massive wooden horse full of soldiers. Anyway, then

Fuchsia goes up to the attic, which is the name of this chapter, and that's the chapter in which Fuchsia goes up to the attic and notices the servants of behaviour and learns that she has a new brother. Niamh Yeah, quite an active chapter this one despite being quite ponderous at the same time. Gina It's ponderous but it's all Fuchsia's attic. You've been given this character in a very out of context, upset thing and then you get to go and see this character inhabiting this whole

entire world she has created just for herself. Which also, there is no ritual but her own. It is chaos. Niamh Doesn't it remind you a little of the Slow Regard of Silent Things? Ange Yes. Niamh She knew that only 18 steps remained after two more turns in the staircase, etc. etc. Ange Yes.

Niamh I'm very with you on that one. Also, I'm going to be cheeky and read out a really long quote from this because- LW Yeah, no, it's gorgeous. I think you have to on this one. JG The love of the diver for his world of wavering light, his world of pearls and tendrils and his breath at his breast. Born as a plunger into the deeps, he is at one with every swarm of lime green fish, with every coloured sponge. As he holds himself to the ocean's fairy floor, one hand clasped to a bedded whale's rib, he is complete and infinite. Pulse, power and universe sway in his body. He is

in love." There's a lot of ribs in this book. It is, it's very ribby. It's a ribby book. Also a lot of ocean, which I think we're in the desert. It is because there's cacti and there's desert next to mountain with a river. All of which is Gormengast. I think there's a lot of sea mentions in all these books and things. I'm guessing that's like the sea is the fantasy location. Yes. I'm guessing maybe maybe we'll be wrong in the next section. We'll go to the sea. Yeah, I mean, but also see is a specific idea of fantasy for future who constantly thinks about not being in this castle. Yes. Yeah. See is maybe the opposite of the castle. So yeah, that makes sense. And speaking of the poem that she reads aloud, but when she's already sulking, I rather liked, I just picked one standard

of that. But the whole thing is delightful to read aloud listeners, so I would recommend you do it in a sulky voice if you prefer. A freckled and frivolous cake there was that sailed on a pointless sea, or any lugubrious lake there was in a manner emphatic and free. How jointlessly, how jointlessly the frivolous cake sailed by on the waves of the ocean that pointlessly threw fish to the lilac sky." It is delightful. It's very Lewis Carroll and I know reading a bit about Mabin Peekover, he did some illustrated editions of Alice in Wonderland and through the Lipping Pass. So I wonder if he did get some inspiration from Carol when it came to some of the poems.

I reckon it's the other way around. Oh yeah, no, Carol would be. Wait, I actually don't know. No, Carol would be first. Carol might be first. Yeah, yeah. I think Carol would be first. I know, I just like Peek better.

No, I like Peek better, but that's what I mean. You take inspiration, you read something and you build on it and do the good version of it. Yeah, take it, make it better. Yeah. Sarah. But speaking of someone with a big soft spot for some of the Lewis Carroll poems. Niamh. Oh no, I do. I love it. Oh, Frodger's Day. Sarah. Caloo, Calais. Niamh. It's the perfect phrase for a happy situation, I'm afraid. Sarah. I think it's really interesting that that famous actor took his name from the Fremius

Bandersnatch. Niamh. We all need a stage name. Sarah. Yeah. And yeah, Fuchsia's rage specifically at having a little brother I found interesting because she admits later, like, there's no logical reason to hate this situation. It's not like she's going to get less attention than she was already getting because the bar was already on the floor. Niamh Well, I think you get it spelled out a little bit later, don't you, that she kind of, well, this is someone else's speculation, but that

she was hoping everyone else would die and she could just be alone and in charge. Well, yeah, there is that and the relationship to the aunts and and if you've only got if you've got a brother, I'm guessing in this situation, he's the heir now. You're not there anymore. Yeah, he's the heir. Even we can't even avoid a sexism in our Gorman ghast. And yeah, no, I think 15 is enough reason to just be really angry and upset by things. He's 15 and no one's ever taught her how to emotionally regulate even a little bit, which you know, I'm all for. I don't think myself down on cushions nearly enough. I'll

be honest. I feel like we should all occasionally just fling ourselves down on some cushions. Yeah, maybe I should get some floor cushions to make this easier. I might make some. Anyway, and then we go to Mrs. Slag by Moonlight in which Nanny visits the outer dwellings and acquires a wet nurse. Important character introduced here, Nanny's best hat. Oh, Nanny's best hat. This feels like something that inspired Pratchett. But again, it also comes from

like the very, very British thing of women of a certain age and a certain way having best hats. In a certain time of history. It's a class thing as well though because she's not the upper, upper class of the castle. She is the servant class but in this context I'd say the middle class of the castle. Yeah, and she's going into a place where she is by far the greatest instructor. She's superior. Yeah. So you have the best hat for such occasions. I liked when she readjusted her hat and felt as she did so with great pleasure, the shining

volume of the glass grapes. It's like a little comfort. I fully understand that. What did you think of the first descriptions of the dwellers, the outdoors? I really enjoyed it because it's another insight into the world that so far we've only had from the Hall of Bright Carvings, but also I would not have thought desert and cacti. Yeah, no, actually. That kind of surprised me. Yeah. The bit that kind of, obviously it's relevant later as well, but was a bit odd

to me was the fact that they all become very old, pretty much at 20. Yeah, they go very, very, very beautiful. No. Yeah, interesting. And obviously the kind of ire, not ire of this, but the almost like, oh, what a shameless of it is focused on the women in the descriptions. Yeah, it's kind of irrelevant to the men. It's the 40s, yeah. I did note, by the way, that the – or rather, I did appreciate that at the start of this chapter, we got a little recap of where we were. Mervyn Peake's like, right, okay, so these people are here, these people are here, this is what we've done, now we're going forward.

Thank you. You are here, pin on the map. Yeah. But also, the idea of the dwellers suddenly turning old at 20 is the closest to a really supernatural element we have in the book. Yeah, so far definitely. Everything else is weird but technically explainable. Yeah, and could just be exaggerated, like the scrubbers and things. But yeah, this is the first real true there is something odd and different and not right. Is it from living there or is it something to do with proximity of

the castle? No, it's fun to wonder. And she finds a wetness. And she finds a wetness. She finds Kaida in this chapter entitled Kaida. Kaida comes to the castle and feeds Titus. It's quite a short chapter. Yeah, but she does it well. She does do it well. And Kaida, again, interesting character in that she's sort of going through grief but has absolutely nothing to say about it and is completely unimpressed by the castle. Which the castle is so important to everyone who lives in the castle. It is their lifeblood,

it is their sole reason for existing. And Kayda is like, huh? Castle. You know, we don't know exactly that she is completely unimpressed, but she's not giving the response that Mrs. Slag expects. Niamh Yes, because Mrs. Slag wants, a bit like Mr. Flay wants the appropriate amounts of celebration to happen. Mrs. Slag wants the appropriate amounts of awe. Emma And the way she relates to Cader's brow is very interesting. I did also like the little dig she gave to Fuchsia when she was talking to Cater in this chapter. I said she was wicked

and she said that everyone was, everyone and everything except rivers, clouds and some rabbits. Just some rabbits. Niamh Yes, just some rabbits, some are bastards. Loretta That one has vibes, I'm just saying. Niamh Definite vibes, absolute vibes. Moving forward to First Blood in which the hour of Titus' christening approaches. Pentecost arranges flowers, enmity grows between Flay and Spelter with the hit of a chain, and Sourdust is ready for ceremony. Because of course he is. Is he ready for anything else ever? I hope not.

No. He's got ceremonies to do. Pentecost, fun name for a headgarner. So many fun games. We're not even mentioning them, are we? They're all ridiculous. CHARLEYY They are all excellent. That is my one criticism of Fuchsia is that her name is Fuchsia because obviously I've had to write the word Fuchsia out quite a lot, putting the plan together. I can't spell it. Every time the S comes. The S is never in the right place. NICOLA No, it's Trixie. It's one of those words that changes its spelling every time, I think. CHARLEYY Yep. NICOLA And doesn't tell us about it. CHARLEYY It doesn't. One thing I do love, the description of smile to smile, specifically

because it's smile to smiling at fly. Across his face little billows of flesh ran swiftly here and there until, as though they had determined to adhere to the same impulse, they swept up into both oceans of soft cheek, leaving between them a vacuum, a gaping segment like a slice cut from a melon. It was horrible, so nature has lost control. As though the smile as a concept, as a manifestation of pleasure, had been a mistake for here on the face of Swelter, the idea of being abused." I'm trying to edit some of the long quotes down but that one.

LW – No, you can't with that one. No. Oh my god. MG – Your face is an abuse of a smile. LW – I wonder if this is based on anyone Peek knew. MG – I do. The same thing occurred to me. That does feel very pointed. I wonder if it was someone from his army days specifically. LW – Yeah, maybe. It's such a contrast as well. I didn't put it in the notes, but Pentecost's flowers described so beautifully as, lavender is the dominant note, here and there a white flower spoke coolly to a white flower across the green carpet spaces and one gold orchid was echoed by another. The only life in

the room lay in the throats of the flowers. Yeah. Notably, almost everything has a to and fro where the objects are given human body parts and humans are given objects to describe the body parts. Yeah, there's lots of anthropomorphising and whatever the opposite of that is. But the throats of the flowers, ugh. It's a great bit. Also again, just thinking of the odd little ritual in the castle,

Pentecost will replace the flowers every day, despite the fact that no one goes in this room. But the flowers must be replaced, there must always be fresh flowers in this room. The flay and swelter stuff, because I find passive aggression entertaining when I'm not having to have anything to do with it. It's really fun to watch. LW – It's gone past passive though in this one. G – Well yeah, no, it goes fairly aggressive, but it goes after Svelte does this passive aggressive stuff. The awful smile, and the awful smile is because he's thought of this calling Fleh flea and introducing the kitchen boys, which is an insult. It's not just

Fleh taking it as such, it's very clearly meant as such. Yeah. It kind of reminds you of, as well as taking the piss out of the English academic and whatever rituals, this, that and the other. It's almost like, what's it, Versailles court kind of thing. Obviously, it's not got the same grandeur, but there was all this stuff about how you shouldn't be introduced to this person or that, or this person has to be introduced first and that, and it would be a real problem if it wasn't. And also everyone actually being confined to the same space in order to stop any plotting against them. I wonder why this is where we're

all in the castle. Maybe we'll find out one day. Quite possibly. Gasp. Cuse. Speaking of cuse, we also first learn of Cora and Clarisse here, although they haven't entered yet. The twin sisters who are bitter about their lack of say in Gormunghast. We go into a assemblage in which the entrances continue. We have Chassie Prune Squalor and then we have Cora and Clarice and then Fuchsia, Lord Sepulcrave and the Countess and the ceremony commences and Grown calls for his son. Sepulcrave has so many different names because he's Sepulcrave and he's the Earl of Gormenghast and he's Lord and he's Grown. He's got a first name somewhere as well. I forgot. Yeah, I lost that. Yeah, that did happen though. But yes, Cora and Clarice immediately introduced us and what future would theoretically be

is the next generation, the sister who is being deprived of power because there will be a wife instead. Yeah. The words spoken in the ceremony by Sourdust here remindind me if anything of like Old Gods of Appalachia. Oh yeah. I've just like that this seems more than anything else to to really hook into whatever weird ancient origin this whole nonsense has because it's really calling to the earth and then to the castle and then to the people. Yeah. It's yeah it's very very evocative. All the words, it's not like they don't mean anything, they all mean things, but together they don't make that much sense apart from in an instinctual way. It's creating a feeling.

It's very primal. Yeah, primal. Thank you. That's what I want. Yeah. I like that. But yeah, I found something with Cor and Clarice, I found it really interesting that their ire is directed entirely towards the Countess. She is the one who has taken their power because she has replaced them as the most important feminine presence of that generation. They're not girls girls? It's not so much that. It's not they'd think we should be in power instead of our brother. It's we should have the power that the Countess has, that his wife has.

Yeah. They should have the ear of their brother. Yes. I think it's very interesting that the castle runs in such a specific way, the most power they can imagine is still an eminence Greece that's still behind the throne. I wonder if that's what they used to have? GW Yeah. But also the Countess herself does not seem to at any point exercise any of this power that they covet so badly. LW Yeah, that's a good point actually. Yeah, this imagined almost power. GW It's completely fictional. Which I will

come back to. Future kind of accepting her anger here and kind of going yeah, I don't really know what I was so angry and sad about, which is very 15 year old girl. And completely disturbed by the twins' suggestion that she should be resentful, that kind of makes her realise she doesn't have a reason to. Yeah, when it comes from these fucking weirdos. Like oh, no I don't want to be this, never mind, that's fine. Gabbard I don't want to be that. Purple's not my color. Emma Yeah.

Gabbard And then we have the trio of agedness. Emma The trio of agedness. Yeah, I fucking love it. There was a history of man in Titus's face, a fragment from the enormous rock of mankind, a leaf from the forest of man's passion and man's knowledge and man's pain. That was the ancientness of Titus. Nanny's head was old with lines and sunken skin, and the red rims of her eyes and the puckers of her mouth, a vacant anatomical anchantry. Cada's oldness was the work of fate, alchemy, an occult agedness, a transparent darkness, a broken and mysterious grove, a tragedy, a glory, a decay. These three seer beings in the shadowy corner waited on. Nanny

was 69, Cater was 22, Titus was 12 days old. Power of three. mother cronin infant next to Earl of Gormancast. Yeah. Whatever the male equivalent of a maiden is, I suppose. Yes. But yeah, that's an excellent moment. And we're moving forward. We now have Titus actually being christened. Finally. Nanny is called forth. First plot point. Well, you say that. I mean, the christening is immediately stopped because Titus sort of is a bit on the floor. But then we take a turn about the gardens and after that,

he's wrapped in a book and christened and then alone with Fuchsia and Annie cries. And I say at this point, huge boost in respect for the Countess, a very short but very effective redemption arc, I would call it. Yeah, absolutely. She was like, oh, he's on the floor. Is he fine? Fine, fine. Go pick him up. Let's go for a walk. Calm down, Sour Dust. Jesus Christ. Okay, let's go. Let's go. After all, the little deer has just had his first recorded act of blasphemy. Yeah, which is a special time in any infant's life. I like it that he's probably had some unrecorded ones. Oh yeah.

By 12 days old. Are you really an heir to the castle of Gormengast if you haven't done a bit of blasphemy? Also, the moment in that when he's dropped and PruneSquall is immediately trying to reassure the Countess that the baby will be alright and she's like, there's a fucking baby? What? Sarah Hmm, why am I here? Oh, right, fine, yes. Niamh My favourite bit of this chapter however is when they have to file past Titus and say Titus and the Earl kind of shouts Titus. I

don't know what, I couldn't stop laughing. This was a Berser moment for me. Ta taaas! Yeah, no one's quite got it. No one can say that in the right tone of voice. I wonder if they all did it for Fuchsia. I wonder. Fuchsia! Well, I assume the christening ritual is completely different when it's a

girl and not the heir to Gormungust. And a different day of the week. And a different day of the week. And the elf's hair would have been slightly shorter. Quite possibly. One of those. It would have been a length. Should we take a short break? Yeah, oh yeah let's. Right, where are we? Means the scape. I was just about to announce little bits we liked. Little bits we liked. Escaping. Means the scape, in which Flagg is avoiding Svelta, no, Fle is avoiding Svelta, I just had a typo there, and has misplaced Steerpike, the errant apprentice in question, takes to

the rooftops. A little detail I noticed in this bit, Flay sleeps outside his master's door. Yes. A little curl back for all behaviour. Very much so. Which then started me thinking of Flay as kind of the absolute opposite of a jester in every way, shape and form. Maybe that's what Gorman-Gusney, maybe Seppelcrave needs a jester. I think that was proved very clearly by how well Fuchsia reacted to Steer Pike's brief attempt to be a jester.

Experiences going on. Yeah. Or maybe Prune Squirler serves as the jester role. Hate that for him. Hate that for him. Or hate that for the rest of us. I'm sure he's happy. Don't like that. I'm sure he is. But yeah, Flay as a character is just, this is a man who never knows comfort in his life.

Yeah. Constant, again with the ribs. Yeah, very ribby. All those feelings are beneath his ribs. Hatred burned beneath them. I think we've had twinges of pleasure. At some point we've got a snake rising suddenly under his ribs. Gina Very much so. There's also a great description of Steer Pike in this section. His body gave the appearance of being malformed, but it would be difficult to say exactly what gave it this gibbous quality. Is it gibbous or gibbous? I've always said gibbous. Emma Me too, let's say that. I also don't really

know how to imagine it in this context because I've always thought ofbous. Me too. Let's say that. I also don't really know how to imagine it in this context, because I've always thought of it as a moon. Yeah, I think we may have had this conversation when gibbous came up in Pratchett. It seems like a Tiffany. It seems like a Tiffany word to chew on. Gibbous, squamous, squamous is the other one. Gibbous, gibbous, kinesis. Still upset that's not pronounced chitinous. It should be pronounced chitin and chitinous. It should. But yeah, so Stearpike's got his moment of this is how logical he is. He doesn't even try the door handle like the rest of us would. Yeah. Although I'm going to say, I'm not sure that is the most logical thing in the world because what if they shit at locking doors?

Yeah, I would always check the door just in case because someone could have locked it badly. What if the lock's shit enough that you can go... Exactly. Maybe it only locks from the outside so it's to stop someone getting in but you can still get out. Check the lock guys. I think he thinks he's cleverer than he is.

Yes, and that's really fun because you're in his perspective, but it's third person rather than first person, but he's still kind of an unreliable narrator. He's one of these logic tech bros. Oh my god, yeah. They're all unreliable narrators. Luckily, they can be corrected by the omniscient narrator on the go. Yes. For the omniscient narrator on the go.

Steerpike is one of my very favourite characters from the book because he is the person driving the plot forward and I obviously do like it when plot occasionally turns out. I'm enjoying all the lengthy description but I do like some plot. He really interests me but I also think he's a dick. Sorry, masterful literary analysis from me. Jess Oh, yeah, no, a total dick. Gabbard We go to a field of flagstones in which Steerpike climbs out and up and sleeps on a field of flagstones in which Steer Pike climbs out and up and sleeps on a field of flagstones.

Yeah, I mean the climbing is interesting. You do feel bad for the chap. He's still a kid. I do feel bad for him. He's 17. He's hungry and goes into the next chapter as he's going over the roofs as well. There's something about reading hunger that always really like, I have to go and eat a packet of crisps if I read about someone being hungry for too long. Yeah, see it's the arm pain that got me. Oh, that too, yeah. Yeah, I've never been able to do monkey bars.

No, me neither. I'd be right off of that wall. I wouldn't have tried, but I would have tried to do it. I've got really good upper body strength, but yeah, can't do that stuff. Shoulder strength has to come with it, doesn't it? Yeah, I don't have... Oh, we're back on shoulders, Francia. They have sound effects now. Hello and welcome to the True Shall We Make You Fret, a podcast in which we shoulders.

Shoulders! We need something... You said you wanted to shorten the intro. Yeah, shoulders. There we go. Sorted. What's your quote? Oh, just a short line. The stone field wavered in a purple blush and the sun withdrew. There's

a lot of the ending lines to chapters have ended up being my favourite quotes. They're very, because we mentioned they're very short chapters, a lot of them. But so many of them end in end of day or just a closing of a door or something like that. Yeah, very nice scene transitions. They are more like scenes than chapters. They are very much more like scenes than chapters, which makes me think about this book and adaptability because when am I not thinking about books and adaptability? Almost never. Which also specifically makes me think that this would be a wonderful book to see as an animated.

Yeah. Especially thinking about the table full of food and studio Ghibli movies. I just feel like it would make me carsick. That's fair. I feel a bit carsick reading it normally. I'll watch it. I love it. I'm quite lucky I never really suffer from travel sickness. I can see why you would, but I wouldn't. I'm simply a superior human being, obviously.

That's true. Everyone does love a secret garden and so I'm pleased he found one, even if it is flagstones and a bit terrifying. I like as well going into the next chapter over the roofscape in which Steer Pike wakes in darkness and watches the night sky catch fire and then in the morning light studies the rooftops. But the idea of Steer Pike being our avatar to look at this, but getting to see the roofscape of Gormunghast. I don't know about you, but I see a complex roofscape and I want to climb stuff. I grew up on Tomb Raider. I don't actively want to because I would fall off and die, but I want to. Yeah. I love his viewpoint of this, of just being able to see all this buck and we're just at the tree.

The tree. The tree. That's so cool. Seeing people walk on the tree. Very much so. And yeah, that's a very short chapter. We go into near and far. I will say at this point, we've got the poet and- That's in- Oh, that is near and far. My mistake. All right, well, I'm going straight in. The poet has another sea-based rhyme.

Yes. So just another nod to the marine. The poet delights me. Do we think the poet wrote the poems in Fuchsia's book? Perhaps he did. They're similarly whimsical and maritime. How do I get a job as a poet in a ritual run castle? I don't know. I'm in a room, I do poems. It's got to be one of these who you know, isn't it? I don't think they're going to

put her on indeed. Like a nepotism. I think if you're going to see it anywhere,, it's gonna be written like the job ad, it's gonna be written on a piece of paper and pinned to a very gnarled tree. So more walking in the forest. Yeah, I think I'm gonna need to spend some time in the forest looking for poet ads on trees. Listeners, if anyone has a rambling castle and would like to hire me as a weird poet

that hangs out in a single room. Yeah. I maintain... For work for snacks. Yeah. I still think that going to clown school might fix me, so I'm willing to try for just her. Yeah, I do feel like a lot of my life would be better if I just knew how to juggle. Yeah. Yeah, it's not even the juggling.

It's the physical ability to fall over on purpose. That too. But for me, I really think it's the juggling that's going to do it. Anyway, sorry, we've wandered off. We'd be like the clown version of the, you know, the Chicago, yeah, you can't do it alone. Then I, and you're just doing that too, but so you're just like throwing machetes into the wall. Yeah, exactly. Because clowns juggle machetes. No more questions. Thank you. Dustin Ivy.

What kind of circus have you been to? I don't want to go back. I just I've never been to a circus with flying machetes personally. Tell me about a hawk before we do Dusty, sorry. Oh, yeah, the opening bit of this chapter and it's sort of speculating on how long it takes the eye to take in what it needs to take in. Oh, yeah, that is cool. It goes into Steerpike's long study of the rooftops where he thinks he's isolated everything he can

isolate. It might be that the hawk sees nothing but those grassy uplands and among the coarse grasses more plainly than the field itself, the rabbit or the rat, and that the landscape in its entirety is never seen but only those areas lit with a torch where the quarry slinks as the surrounding regions thickening into cloud and darkness on the yellow eyes. There's something about being single-focused there that feels like it's a much bigger metaphor for the book. Oh, definitely. Seppelcrave only sees the necessary ritual as told to him by Sourdust. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone is very, very self-absorbed, which is interesting in a way that they're all connected to this much bigger thing than them. And Nanny only sees her charges.

Like these shit ants. Yeah. Shit ants. Dust and ivy, very short chapter, in which Steerpike climbs into Futures Attic. Not a euphemism. Nope. I like coarse, monotonous foliage, nice way to describe thick ivy. Yeah. That was the bit that viscerally as well made me uncomfortable thinking about the climbing thing, more so than the aching arms or the hunger. Climbing through the foliage and the dust and thinking that there might be cobwebs in there made me feel horrible on the inside. Oh the spiders. So I was just thinking to myself there's probably not like anti-climb

stuff hidden in there so that's nice. Well there might be because it is Gormengast, who the fuck knows. Yeah I don't know what's in the ivy and personally I don't want to know, I don't think it's any of my business. It's none of our business, you're right. Let's go to the body by the window. The body by the window in which Fuchsia runs and rages and finds a fainted stearpike who has been reading poetry and purloining food. Gosh, golly. Absolutely golly.

I quite like, I've got a longish quote here because I just, I love Petulant Fuchsia. She's just so teenage. Gina Hickman I had so many thoughts about this moment as well actually. Emma Maree He will be tall. She's crying here and talking about her future boyfriend. He will be tall, tall in the midst of flay and strong like a lion with yellow hair like a lion's only more curly. And he will have big strong feet because mine are big too, but they won't look so big if his are bigger. And he will be clever

than the doctor and he'll wear long black capes that my clothes will look brighter still. And he will say, Lady Fuchsia, and I shall say, what is it?" I love this moment so much. She's right. That's what should happen. She is right. And that is what should happen. But I love part of this aspiration for her, what she says right before that, I'm talking about this mystery man is is that he'll be from another world and different and he will fall in love with me at once because I live alone and I aren't like the other beastly things in this world and he'll enjoy having me because of my pride. There's nothing about when she imagines

being free of Gormunghast, being loved in a way that she cannot be loved within Gormunghast, she is still Lady Fuchsia. She is still noble. She cannot imagine a thing where she is not part of Gormungar in that way. She still has to have her title. Yeah. She thinks of herself as mingling with the commoners and then being very impressed by the fact that she is Lady Fuchsia. She's just not there anymore. She just wants to... Got other things to do. Yeah. More important things to do. Yeah. I love future. Also, this sounds probably

a bit patronising talking about what is obviously a very talented writer, but it's the same thing we talked about with Pratchett. Being really good at writing teenage girls. Yeah. I think it's a good sign of a person. Yeah. I think if you can accurately recreate that teenage mindset. The book doesn't really mock her. Jess No. Sarah It doesn't go, oh, isn't she silly? Jess I think less than it does other characters

certainly. Sarah Yeah. Jess Mocked everyone at least a bit. Sarah Oh yeah, no, it doesn't not mock her, but it doesn't make you feel, it doesn't deride her specifically for being a 15-year-old girl. Jess I've never, by the way, I'm not going to read this out, but I've never seen quite such a long description of somebody taking one, brackets, one bite of a pear.

It is a fantastic moment. It is. And I feel like- That is some purple prose. I support it. I support it. I do too. Moving swiftly onto the allege of sunflower, in which Hucher wakes Stearpike with sluggish

sunflower slime. Still trying to get the alliteration in in these shorter summaries. That one made me also feel a bit ill. Niamh. Anyone listening who has similarly forgotten about a vase and poured it out in the garden or such, hopefully in the garden, not in the sink. And I'm going, oh my god, how did I not smell that throughout the entire house? It's self-contained somehow until you break the miasma. It's horrific. But I do like Fuchs' attitude towards this, which is she's aware of this as a thing to be done because she's seen it happen once. In her head, this jar

is full of lovely clean water because why would it evaporate? Then the green slime comes out and, well, she had tipped something wet over the face of someone who was ill and that, to Fuchsia, was the whole principle. She was not surprised when she found that its cogency was immediate. Done. This is, of course, stirpike, fully conscious of what's going on the whole time, but cannot stop this happening in any way. This is what I quite enjoy about Steer Pike as well. He's so arrogant, he is so much more clever than everyone else and he still finds himself in these situations. LW – He's a situation creator.

G – He does. LW – He thinks of himself as a situation dealer wither. He's actually a situation creator. He has put himself in situations and must now suffer the situation. He says, Oh, I am but a smart little boy in a situation. And he does not say whose situation is this? Whose fault is this? Oh, nine little German boy, don't go to the situation. Whose fault is this? Oh, nine little German boy, don't go to the situation. Whose situation is the situationer? Ask not for whom.

The situationer's situation. Right, sorry, carry on. I've lost it. Look, we cannot. There we go, there we go. I have our answer. Insane. Good.

Insane. Soap for grease paint. Speaking of, we have the clowning. We have the clowning in which Stearp Pike does his best to impress and then tags along with Nanny and Fuchsia on a visit to the doctor. Yes, the wonderful clowning. But even just Steer Pike reading Fuchsia immediately in a way which feels way more insulting than the book ever is about her. Niamh. Yeah. He does it really well, doesn't he? Because you love Fuchsia, well because

I love Fuchsia by now. You have to imagine actually, I wonder how many people did. It's almost like she's written for us. But if you're like a man in the 40s reading this, are you like, what a little twat. I imagine you are. More 1940s man. Oh, God, my wayward daughter throws herself on the ground and cries at things. on the ground and cries at things. Her crimson dress was more than enough for him to go on. This is a castle so devoid of colorful clothing for the most part. Almost everyone you see is dressed in grey or white or black. Gina Narspey Apart from the twins who are in their customary purple.

Samar All of these things is this very calculated playing up to her romantic sensibilities and spots the opportunity for clowning as a way to entertain her and does it very well to be fair. Loretta Say right, I know a clown is somebody who does stupid things with a straight face, or takes them very seriously. And he's the perfect imitation of an artist. He's not an artist. And again, I feel like Mervyn Peake is being pointed.

Yes. He knows somebody who's learned all the technicalities of art, but does not have the soul of an artist. Yeah, it feels a bit like I'm probably leaping on the metaphor and taking it too far, especially as Mervyn Peake wasn't aware of this, but the people who insist that they are artists because they can create shit with AI art programs. Yeah. And tell Sire and Sormon that it is. Whatever the equivalent of that case.

Yeah. Yeah, it's a devastating insult, isn't it? You, Sire, you, Sire, as he would say, I'm sure, this imaginary man I have in my head, you, Sire, are no artist. You are the perfect imitation of an artist, but you are no artist. Yes. Gasp. Pearls clutched. Not actual pearls because we are a man in the 1940s. Pipe dropped. Pipe dropped, yes. Pipe dropped in astonishment.

Pipe drop is like the mic drop. You drop the mic, he drops the pipe, that's the end of a roast. Excellent. Then we move forward to the Prune Squalers. Sarah I think we're better. Samuele Again, a delight of reading the chapter headings out loud. Soap for grease print out the Prune Squalers, a gift of the gab. At the Prune Squalers, in which Fuchsia is getting a gift.

Steer Pike is hiding from Flay, who passes an invite on to Nanny. The Doctor pours drinks, Steer Pike asks for a job and Fuchsia gets a magnificent ruby. Sarah I think in this chapter, or the next one, I can't remember exactly, we learn that we were right to hate Mr. Fruin Scholar. GAL So creepy. LX Creepy, creepy man. GAL Very creepy.

LX I thought he was being creepy or I'd just automatically to be honest read men's intentions like this around 15 year old girls as malignant. But apparently he wasn't even thinking of that until the end. Now I'm like, what the fuck is he going to be like next time he sees her? Jesus. GER I mean, the whole idea of giving her the ruby in the first place feels very odd. LESLE It is odd. GER And again, maybe I overthink this. I've watched

a lot of TV shows that encourage lots of theorising recently, but has he been given the ruby to give to her and this is actually quietly another Gormungar's ritual? But it's been done in such a way. I don't think that is it. I think that was just something that occurred to me. It's a fun thought. It is a fun thought. Yeah, I think he's probably buying favour.

Yes. Or maybe, maybe genuinely it's what his unreliable narrator self says. It's a child he's fond of. Yeah. I've got a present, I've got a present for you. I'm an avuncular uncle type figure. GER And I think there's still with that an element of the social climbing. The I think of myself as an uncle even though I'm not part of the

family at all and never would be. The description of the Ruby though, of Ruby like a lump of anger. Red descriptions. We're all monster fragmenting a little. Oh, we are. Love a red description, always. Still not entirely out of love with red after that book. It gave me new appreciation for the colour. That's fair. I want a Ruby like a lump of anger. I want a Ruby like a lump of anger. I do like a Ruby. I feel like a garnet could be a good lump of anger. Yeah, true.

And it's cheaper, I think. Yeah, garnets are cheaper than rubies. Rubies are very pretty. I've never owned a ruby, but I've always liked a ruby. Listeners, if anyone wants to provide me with a ruby like a lump of anger. not sure you're going to be able to afford rubies on your poet salary. Necessary. As far as I understand it is a stack of precarious toast or whatever it was. I'll take it. I love toast. Precarious or otherwise. I prefer the Gormagirl's chapter. Precarious toast. There is Stearpike in this chapter as well, the way he ingratiates himself makes me cringe in, again, a very visceral cringing. The moment he poured out some more port for Mr. Slag and adventure to wink at Fuchsia who had stared emptily back, so he had turned the wink into an affection of his eye. The way his ingratiating absolutely will not work on the Gormungast, the groans proper, but it will work on Prune Squalor and

in the next chapter, Erma Prune Squalor. Niamh And for a second, because he does it for long enough, you get to think like, oh, have we slightly underestimated Prune Squalor? Is he going to see through this guy? And you're like, no. Absolutely. You're hired. Just as much of a twat as we thought. Carry on. Yeah. It takes us into a gift of the gab, which is where Steer Pike impresses Irma, Prune Squaller, and enters into the Prune Squaller service. No one falls for this. Irma goes for it quicker than the doctor does because she's flattered, I suppose, in her strangely bony way. She's very, very bony and that's a bad thing is what we've learned. She's very, very bony and that's a bad thing is what we've learned. Yes. The size that he deems to be acceptable for women seems to be quite a narrow margin.

The countess is too bulky. Irma is too thin. Admittedly, they are on the extreme ends of the spectrum. Fuchsia has potential if she could only stop being so shoulders. At least he is talking about all genders equally in this way, I will say. Oh yeah. At least he is talking about all genders equally in this way, I will say. Nobody seems to be an acceptable appearance. Apart from Kada, and even she's on the edge. Yeah. Kada's interesting because she is supposed to be the really stunningly beautiful one. I will say the only descriptions that actually feel creepy in a gendered way in any way are the ones of Fuchsia. I don't think the descriptions of Kada's beauty feel gross in a gendered way. Obviously they are gendered.

Niamh Oh by the way, I forgot to say, fuchsia's flinging her arms around Fle at the froon's collars. I thought it was really sweet in the same way it was with her nanny. She's a rude little so and so but loves him very much and that's not in doubt. Clara Yes and will randomly just burst out with displays of affection and then stop again. Niamh You're terrible. I hate you. I love you. Goodbye. that's not in doubt. Yes, and we'll randomly just burst out with displays of affection and then stop again. Ah, you're terrible. I hate you. I love you. Goodbye. When she hugs the nurse at the end

of the christening. Yes. You made her cry. Yes, she does that a lot. She's made nanny cry plenty of times, but that doesn't mean other people can. No. Beasts. The word beasts is such a specific 15-year-old girl written in the 1940s. Yes.

So you're beasts. You're beasts. You're beastly, absolutely beastly, Robert. Who's Robert? Hello, Echo. You're not beastly. I do call Echo a terrible beastie. Hey there, sweetheart. Come in. He's poked her little head through the door. Come on then. Oh, bless her. She heard us talking about beasts. You can get the rest of your story. Or you can go in a bit. Okay. Okay. Say bye bye. She just opened the door and left. Cool.

Excellent. What an excellent little dog. While the old nurse dozes, there's a next chapter in which Cader tells Nanny Slang she'll be returning home soon and tells a sleeping Nanny about the two men who loved her. Love, absolutely not subtle foreshadowing in this section, which is just in regards to Steer Pike taking up residence at the Peryn Schoolers and learning to mix poisons and such. Of the compromising and tragic circumstances that were the outcome of all this, it is not yet time to speak. N. I don't think that's foreshadowing, is it? G. Well, it is telling us what's going to happen next.

N. It's forespelling out. G. I guess it's not really in shadow. N. It's like a shadow as a hint of a silhouette and you have to guess what it is from the shape of it. So this is just hitting us over the head with the future. Dangerous, but delightful. Four-clopping. Four-clopping.

So we know Steampunk's going to fuck things up, but Cader? I like the little hint we get into the rituals again. The marriage ceremony to the south of the Twisted Woods with her standing on his feet. Yeah, absolutely. Sweet. Even if it is a forced marriage. Yeah, the forced marriage grows but also fully expected in this kind of fantasy novel and most inter- But I like Cader's story and I like the way the book doesn't seem to judge her for being loved by two men. No, the way the book doesn't seem to judge her for being loved by two men.

No, and even the men don't seem to judge her. No, they just accept they both really, really like her. I assume it was one of them who jumped on the table with some animal sound as she was being led back to where she was leading, getting slid back to the castle. I feel like that is the implication. Let me move forward to Flay brings a message and we've kind of had a little time jump into the future here in that it's now autumn. We're supposed to have had a time jump in that Cader's finished wet nursing and can leave so Titus is weaned I guess.

Yeah, barely but. So yes, Flay brings a message. Fuchsia takes long walks in autumn weather. Nanny provides tea and Flay joins and it's almost time to take Titus to see Lord Sepulcrave. Super. Yes. The sort of Flay joining for tea. I'm talking about the fact that this man has never really known any kind of physical comfort. We learn later why he's particularly shaken at this moment where he's invited to join them. I don't know, I love the moment.

LARETTE I do. It reminds me of something that I can't put my finger on, but I love it. And there's something about the descriptions of sipping and nibbling. I talked about one of my favourite phrases when it comes to meals and things in fantasy novels is they set to. It's a very they set to moment that delights me. Also, just future again, just yes, I must have this boulder. This is a thing I must own now along with my new mushroom collection. LW – Fugnesses. MG – Yes, fugnesses. LW – And I shall bring back as many as I like. MG – Yes, we get another sort of, and someone will love me despite me having all of my mushrooms

and such. Then we sort of jump back in time, but we go to the library in which Circle Grove dispatches Flay to collect Titus and Flay peeks through a window. At that point actually, the light that seeped in a dull haze through the window dragged out us from a black canvas, the main bone formation of Mr. Flay's head. Again, I just love the descriptions of light and darkness. Always very artistic. But it also made me think like, he's got a really interesting way of doing points of view perspectives. We've got an omniscient narrator, but even so it seems like an unusual way of showing the physicality of the subject whose head we're inside. We're inside his head, but we're just going to pop out for a second because he looks really

cool in this light. Yeah. And then we'll go back to what he's seeing and how he feels about it. The way it shifts perspective, obviously I am nowhere near the calibre of writing of Mervyn Peake, but I'm writing fiction at the moment and I've run into a tricky thing where I'm writing third person but from specific people's perspectives, which is fine when those people haven't met but now they're in a room together. One of them uses they then pronouns. Writing all of that perspective without it getting mucky has proved to be an interesting challenge.

That's the thing you can learn from Pratchett and Fieck, I reckon. Yep. Zoom out, use the light, and then pop into the other person's head, maybe. Imagine yourself the little drone. Exactly. Anyway, yeah, sorry, back onto this, which is much more highbrow. The description of the eastern wing from the Tower of Flint onwards was now but a procession of forgotten and desolate relics, an ichabod of masonry that filed silently along an avenue of dreary pine whose needles hit the sky. Ichabod is a biblical figure. Yeah, also I know an Ichabod Crane and I'm not sure why. That's from Sleepy Hollow.

Yeah. Which would predate this, but I think in context is meant to be a biblical reference. I mean, Ichabod Crane is named for the biblical character because of the year it was written and stuff. Ichabod Crane was also a Colonel. Clara – Was he? Niamh – Yeah. He was probable namesake of the protagonist in Irving's Legend of Sidi Yolo. This is so irrelevant. Close that tab. Clara – This is so irrelevant. But yeah, I'm not sure if Ichabod even has a relevance.

I don't know the story from the Bible. I don't know if it is relevant or it's like… Niamh – Listen, help! Clara – Yeah. like, yeah. Answers on a distressing postcard. But it also could have just been, that word sounds good there, so it doesn't really need to mean anything. Because I don't question an Ichabod of masonry. No. Even though I've never heard the word in that context, or really any context other than Sleepy Hollow and the Bible. Yeah. Oh, what's the bloody artist called who

does the impossible architecture? Ange Oh, Escher. Niamh Escher, yeah. This is like the Escher wing, I think, right? Ange Yeah. Niamh I like the rectangle of columns for no reason. Ange Yep. Niamh It's just like me fucking about in The Sims really.

Ange Well I quite like the idea of Gormungast as a castle that kept having stuff built onto it. Sort of as the whims took people and now it's gone sprawled and weird. Niamh- As and when they become available. Sarah- As and when they become available. And then yeah, we actually get to be in Supplecrave's head for the first, kind of the first time. We briefly spent some time with him at breakfast. The relationship to the Camptus, from his point of view, is not really surprising for a story like this. But

the way he thinks about it is quite amusing because it's not steerpike-y, but it's what steerpike would think like if he had been born into privilege. In spite of his intellect, which he knew to be far and away above hers, he felt and was suspicious of the heavy, forceful vitality of his wife, a blind passion for aspects of life in which he could find no cause for interest. LW – Great. I think definitely she's coming across as the more likeable character. MG – Of the two. Again, the bar's quite low. LW – The bar's low, but not below the ground, I'd say.

But he's constantly gets described as inherent melancholy. I feel like if there was some reason behind the many, many rituals in his life, if he knew the purpose of them, he might be less depressed. Yeah, I mean, yeah, definitely, right? Yeah. But this again- I do think also it's definitely, I'm connected to this castle's soul in some way. Yeah, no, I agree with you. And also, maybe the castle needs to have a melancholy ruler because anybody who has a bit more vitality to them might fuck about with a ritual. You need somebody who-

Or just not stay at the castle. Yeah, you need somebody who can just not really muster the energy to do anything except what he's told by Sour Dust. You need complacency for the rituals to continue. You do. I've always said that. Yeah, no, I've heard you say that many times. I won't say to the listeners in what context they don't need to know about the rituals.

In a lime green light, and this is- By the way, love the lime green. Yeah, it's a really specific ominous flavour of – it's a really specific flavour of ominous colour. You get lots of different ominous colours, but if you think about – I'm going to be really highbrow talking about this wonderful highbrow – Disney movies that use the colour green as a villain colour. LH – Yeah, that's the villain colour. MG – Yeah, be prepared. The best villain song in a Disney movie.

Yeah, slight, I would say, complimented vibe, not quite superseded by the Lion King T's villain song, which is My Lobby. That's my lo-buy. A song that we have sung in the cast together many, many times. Ah yeah. Against a blood red sky! That's G, Gast. That's going, Gast. Which is horrible because blood red really clashes with the lime green. Yeah, oh fuck. Poor fuchsia. Poor fuchsia. But yes, the lime green light, because there can be something quite sickly about the idea of a green light as well. It's not just villainy. It's not healthy. Nasty. Yeah, unhealthy villainy.

Not wholesome. Unwholesome. As opposed to all the wholesome villainy we go about in our day-to-day lives. Yeah. I don't know about you. I try and keep it wholesome, but villainous. But the way this works with the hopping perspective of the book, and so this now re-contractualises when Flay entered and joined Fati, he had just seen Svelte practising to murder Flay and his almost his biggest revelation in that scene is Svelte knows not just where I sleep but what position I sleep in. Niamh It's a horrible scene isn't it? It's so well done. Clara Yeah, just when you-

Niamh What a fucking freak! Clara Because first you're just watching him sharpen a knife and a chef sharpening a knife and then it builds as you realise he's practising walking and then eventually like Flay realises that's- Because you've seen the labelled stairway and- Yeah and Flay realises that's me. Ninth by the way, nine being an unlucky number here I think. Yeah, I feel like seven through nine numbers to keep an eye on.

It seems to be meaningful. I'm not sure necessarily bad because it's the birth of the new grown. True. 9 unlucky. 9 definitely unlucky. 7 we're not sure yet. Yeah, we don't know. Until we get to future finding the book about it. After the lime green light we get reintroducing the twins. Mmm. As the twins visit the prune squalers

just for a moment and steer pikes. LW – He steers. He pikes. MG – He steers. He pikes. It's interesting to watch him with the twins though because he comes up against a – he's spent now a good few weeks, a month or two with the prune squalers. He has learned how to work with them. He's got almost a flirtation. LW – Yeah, being way too wordy and a little bit… schoolers. He has learned how to work with them. He's got almost a flirtation with Irma who is attempting coy glances, although she's not quite remembered how to coy. LX Why is nobody here to appreciate the sweep of my hair?

GW Exactly. And now there is someone here to appreciate the sweep of her hair. But yeah, when it comes to the twins, he does hit a brick wall repeatedly before he finds a way in. They are more bemused by him than anything. Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely like a... We're talking the same language, but it's not having the effect that normally would. I quite enjoy the twins because it's almost like a very willful misunderstanding. I refuse to... I've decided not to comprehend these particular words. Maybe I'll have a go at the next ones. Niamh They never see anyone, so they've stopped trying

to censor themselves most of the time. Unless it's literally Gertrude, they're going to be like, we want power. Clara Yeah, no, literally we want to rule the castle, obviously. Niamh We're really good at embroidery, by the way. Clara And we do it all with our left hands. We don't talk about the epileptic fits and the right arm on both sides doesn't quite work. Which is, I find interesting that that's one thing that we're told that

and they talk about it, but it's never in the description of them. No, it's probably nice. It talks about their mad set and yeah, no, it is quite nice. I imagine the description would feel gross in a very different way. Yeah, yeah. gross in a very different way. We go to the fire cones in which Steve Mike Strolls follows nanny slag and flay to the library and overhears Lord Zapplegrave's instructions for a family gathering. Are you still giggling at nanny slag? I really am. I'm sorry. It's not just me.

I think it's because when you say the word nanny, obviously, all comes next. You're expecting to hear og. because when you say the word nanny, obviously, Og comes next. And I hear slag, which is just a funny insult as it is. I know in this case, it's not an insult. It's more like the slag pit, whatever. I know Og has lots of references and old Ogum and stuff. But do we think nanny Og is also named that in homage to nanny slag? Possibly subconsciously. There's a double G. There's a double G.

I feel like she's saying lorks unironically. Yes. She's not saying lorks, etc. Yeah. My poor heart is definitely the lorks of this occasion. Yes. I think it also doesn't help that I can't say slag without saying it like slag. Slag. Slag. You slag. You slag. Any slag.

Sorry, we are losing it now. We've still got a quarter of this section of the book. Slag. Slag. Slag. You slag. You slag. Danny slag. Sorry, we are losing it now. We've still got a quarter of this section of the book to get through. What? I thought we were at the end. Fuck. Oh no, we're not far off the end. We've only got a couple more chapters.

Yeah, we did really top heavy this one, listeners, to be transparent. We did. Because we forgot. Lost the will. I started realizing how many post-its I put in the book and thought I had to cut back. I went through and counted the chapters when I was about halfway through this section. I went, there's 35 fucking chapters in this section. Fuck.

Maybe we should have done three episodes on this book. Big behind the curtain there. Back in the book, Steerplank's sword stick. Do you remember saying that five times fast? That was foreshadowed. Ange You watched him covet it from a random pile of weapons he walked past and now he's gone and acquired it because- Loretta It's a kind of twat to have a swordstick,

isn't it? Ange I do think it takes a specific sort of twat to have a swordstick. Loretta You can get away with it if you're very cool. Ange I could pull off a swordstick. Loretta Yeah, exactly. But it's pretty hard to be a 17-year-old with a sword stick. Yeah, it is. I actually, when I was maybe a bit younger, but like 14, 15, I hung out with more than one man who unirrotonically walked with a cane for fashion, not because

they needed a cane in any way, with a decorative skull on the top and maybe it would hold a lighter or something inside. I've actually just realised at least one of the people I'm talking about went to school with you and you probably knew them. Anyway. Then Seppelcroft and the Fur Cones. LX Oh, he collected fur cones for his little boy and then he was sad because he wasn't entertained by them, but he was for a minute. It's just that he then picked up on some bad vibes. Niamh There's something about the intention but also the total lack of understanding of what it is to be any human being that is not sepulcrave. So the infant might enjoy fur cones. Oh nanny,

you're tired. Lie on your back on the stone floor while I say things down at you. That'll help. It's very- It does. The kind of piss take of Prince Charles. What do you do then? It's just this whole book is so uncomfortable in that way, physically uncomfortable. It's so clever in that I have not known a moment's rest while reading this book. I can be sitting in my comfiest reading chair. And I'll be somehow feeling flagstones against my shoulder blades. Yep. God damn. It's evocative nonsense. It is evocative nonsense. But it's like the

opposite of weaponized incompetence. And that he's really he tried. And then he's like, I, why did I get him fur cones? And he's so angry. And he's not he tried and then he's like I why did I get him fur cones and he's so angry and he's not angry anyone he's not angry at his son for not enjoying the fur cones he's angry at himself for I don't know indulging in such whimsy as fur cones and this is his little redemption art for me yes much much more in a poor little boy yes he's like a what do they call him in Tumblr? He's a blorbo. Yeah, hint of blorbo.

He's a baby girl. All right, let's not do this anymore. I'm sorry. Listeners can't see my face that really needs to accompany this. I can assure you listeners, this is one of intense disdain. Thank you. I know it. I've had it turned on me by Francine many a time. She's known me for a long time. Cader and Rantle. In which Cader returns to the outer dwellings, meets Rantle in the lamplight and spends the night and in the morning she sees Bragan and the men make a plan to meet

in the moonlight. C. Randle in the lamplight. Well, I'm glad you had a nice night before whatever bloodshed is coming up next. J. Yeah, I mean, obviously those two are going to fight and kill each other over them, but coming from Seppelcrave in the cold and dark with the angry at his fur cones to this kind of I cannot help but be suffused with joy and love and I don't exactly know why, but as I'm like that, I'm going to get laid and accept that then two men are going to fight. Do you know what it is? It's a-bool-iance.

A-bool-iance. A-bool-iance. That's what it is. She's effervescent. She is effervescent. She is, I imagine, ovulating. I do assume that is what she's talking about. That's kind of what it sounds like. It does sound a bit like that. I do like, although admittedly these two men are considering fighting each other to the death, it doesn't feel like the book is in any way punishing

Cater for sex. It doesn't even sound like the two men hate each other over it. GW No, they just happen to both love her. LX Yeah, they're both like, we both love her, unfortunately, this is the outcome of that. So it must be. GW There's an immense practicality in The Outer Dwellings. It's kind of like something you get in fantasy novels with the poorer strata in whatever social situation a fantasy novel is cooked up where the poorer you are, the more practical you

are, which is very true to life as well. Niamh There seems to be no deceit as far as we can see in the very short interactions here between them. Rantel, not even begrudgingly, just matter of factly tells Kader that Bregon was the one to save what he could from the house. Heather Meehan Yeah. Samar It's like, yeah, I tried to do something, it was a bit late, but Bregon did some good stuff. Heather Meehan So I really enjoy this.

Samar I don't want to fuck. Heather Meehan I enjoy this, but I also wonder if it ever links back into the larger narrative or if this is just Kader is going to continue being a side plot. Samar We'll find out. It's a fun side plot. Heather Meehan It is a fun side plot. I'm not complaining if that's all it is. I hope she has a lovely time. The Room of Roots next, in which a twin pulls ink on the counters. Steer Pike arrives to admire embroideries and roots and the tree. And this is Steer Pike visiting the twins. I like the ink on the counter story that you mentioned earlier.

Yeah. People almost always being dressed monochromatically and yet somehow this whole plan is concocted and it doesn't occur to her. You mentioned earlier, no one seems to be able to relate to anybody as somebody outside of their brain. Yes. Like, well, this would really upset me.

And therefore, yes. Because I wear purple. But she doesn't say that because I wear purple until after it's failed. She's like, didn't upset her because I get it now. But also slower than me. I've always said so. I mean, two other bits with it as well. One, that she just does this in full view of various people but there is no reaction or upshot to it. It's just like, yeah, everyone's like, oh, that's me. Anyway, but it's also every other time we've seen the twins, they've been together around other people. This is the first time we've seen them alone. So it's the first time you see that there is any dissonance between them. Because every other time we see them,

they're really synchronized. Yeah, and they carry on that dissonance when Sterepike's there, they don't they? Because there's some jealousy. There's a combination. Niamh There's a combination of – there's like a jealousy and competitiveness and also he's so beneath us it doesn't matter if we're not the way we are around the Prune Squalers or the rest of the family. We don't need to impress him and we don't need him to be impressed by us. Which is the same thing but also very different. Sam Yeah. I wonder if the Countess would have been

upset if she was wearing a different colour. I feel like maybe not. Yeah, I feel like she would respond to twins being weird again. I don't know which one that even was. Anyway. Cheers mate. My favourite quote from this bit by the way was, I heard him, said her sister, I'm not blind am I? G! Excellent. Mine was slightly longer, but the description of the Room of Roots. If the name of the room was unusual, there was no doubt about its being apt. It was certainly a Room of Roots, not of a few simple separate formations, but of a thousand branching, writhing, coiling, intertwining, diverging, converging, interlacing limbs whose origin even steerbikes quick eyes were unable for some time to discover. It made me extremely nervous when I realized the difficulty people were having walking

through this. By people I mean steerbike. Yes. It's a new flavor of claustrophobia unlocked. Oh, very much so. It made me very stressed because I've been unearthing a lot of stinging nassal roots in my garden. Getting tangled up in them. Occasionally, yes, which is uncomfortable. Also, we talked about comedy lists so much with Pratchett, so just really fun descriptive list. Especially when it's all gerunds. Yeah. On to some inklings.

Inklings of glory, in which Sea Pike wants to know where exactly are the twin servants, with a little lie about the upcoming gathering convinces the twins that a fire in the library is just the thing. Niamh I have a little quote which I feel like could have also been a chapter heading in itself. Feel the slur removed from your escutcheon. Feel the slur removed from your escutcheon. Nobody likes a slur on one's elnur's escutcheon. I'm not sure what an escutcheon is or whether or not... Waiter, there's a slur in my escutcheon. Don't shout it so loud sir, everyone will want one.

Do I have an escutcheon? Oh, I hope not. I feel like, isn't it, didn't we talk about that in the context of shields and things? Escutcheon, heraldry, shield or shields shaped emblem. Wow, I've lost it now Joanna, where are we at the end? Joanna We are nearly at the end. I'm not saying words anymore. Sam I'm not saying words anymore.

A shield or shields shaped emblem displaying a coat of arms as, yeah, a slur on one's scutcheon I suppose would be a smudge in this case, wouldn't it? Joanna Yes. Sam Anyway, remove it. Joanna Mar on your honour, that sort of thing. But yes, Stierpike is interesting in how quickly he does manage to get complete control of the twins, having initially run up against the brick walls. It turns out he had to treat them as stupider than he was trying to treat them. He had to be very simple.

Jess Yeah, take it down a notch. Niamh But everyone he deals with feels very stupid to him because they have never had to think like this. They're all born to power, whereas he is even Presqual or I would assume if it's a hereditary type position. Niamh Well yeah, he said it was hereditary wealth. It was quite interesting that you'd think from the superficial look at Prune Squall that he would have fallen right into the, oh yes, I'm a man of ambition and that's why I've done so well. But actually he's like, no, no, no, not really, I'm just good

at this and I was born into money. Sarah Yeah. But yeah, so Steer Pike is the only person who's really thinking like this because the only person who's had to scheme to get tired than he was. Emma Marey Mm-hmm. Prince Squall is trying to a bit, but I mean, he's never had to face anyone cleverer than Seffelgrave. Gina Harkness Yes. And then moving on to the last chapter of this section, preparations for Arson.

Emma Marey What's that boy up to? Gina Harkness In which Steer section, preparations for arson. LX What's that boy up to? MG In which Steer Pike makes plans for arson. LX Oh, interesting. MG But also plans to save people. LX And plans to make the sisters like the Fuse. MG Yes, and kind of not quite frame them, but make them the guilty party. LX Yeah. MG Well, he does all the save-eouring. Again, this is a very intense manipulation

and he's really thinking through every step. What I do like is for a book that seems to mostly exist to confuse the fuck out of us, this is laid out painstakingly with no doubters to every step of the process and how it will all work. Down to finding the ladders. Niamh It's good. I'm glad of that. I'm not too stressed out about it. I feel like if this was a practical TN plan, it would be a moist bond look big plan and we wouldn't know until it came about. Yeah, no, I like this. There's not a criticism at all. I like that this incredible wandering, meandering florid book can, when it needs to hit a plot, suddenly be very direct and

very spelled out. This is how you burn down a library, boys and girls. Yes. Kids, though, we don't recommend burning down libraries here on The True Show, make you for it. If you steal vellum covered books, beautifully marked with the aristocrat seal, be sure to wrap them in brown paper. That's not suspicious at all. Yeah, yeah. Absolute subtlety from our man's dear Pike here. Right, that is all of our chapters, so we'll be coming back to do the rest of them next week or so. Francine, what's the

best obscure word you've learnt? I liked, but I don't think we mentioned it all, I learnt a lot of words from this. Yeah, same. I think the best obscure or the most obscure at least was abactinil, abactinil. And then it was in the context of this ridiculous pear eating. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's his teeth met in the secret and dark center of the fruit, a little bit suggestive, in that abactinil region, where since the petals have been scattered in some far June breeze, steady and profound maturing had progressed day and night. That bit wasn't necessary, but it's hard to stop a sentence

when you've started in this book. Yeah, that's fair. Anyway, it means it's a zoological term, and it's talking about organisms that show radial symmetry, which I believe is things like starfish. Oh, yeah. I can't think of any other examples. Sunflowers? I don't think that goes in zoology.

Oh, yeah, no, they're... know sunflowers aren't an animal. I'm not sure I know that anymore. You said organisms and I immediately thought plants as well. Yeah, sorry, no, that is an organism, yeah. Yeah, no, sunflowers are organisms but they're not animals. Situated away from or opposite to the mouth. Okay. No mouth on a sunflower.

Anyway so this is the other side of the pair I think. I'm not even sure it worked in the context but it did make me look up several things. I don't think Ichabod was meant to work in the context and yet it sounded great in the sentence. One of the ones that was definitely made up was Nani Slagg talking about the boy born in luxury, or something like that, which the Mervin Peake FAQ from Mr. Winnington, who I quote at the start says, this is probably portmanteau of lap of luxury. Yes.

Nice. Delightful. Right. I think that is everything we're going to say about the first half of Titus Grown. LARLEY I'm just, yeah, I'm barely separating my syllables anymore. GER Yep. We will be back, as I said, next week with the rest of the book starting, I can't remember what the chapter's called. I'm assuming Arson. LARLEY Doesn't matter. Yeah.

GER Yeah. You know where it is. LARLEY You'll find it. GER Until then though, dear listeners, you can of course join our Discord. There's a link down below and follow us on Instagram at The True Show Make You Fret, on Twitter and Blue Sky at Make You Fret Pod, on Facebook at The True Show Make You Fret, join us on Reddit at r-sash-t-t-s-m-y-f, email us your thoughts, queries, castles, snacks, albatrosses, do we need to come up with a new one for that? Call it the grotto.

Email us your grottos at the true show make you fret pod at gmail.com. And if you want to support this nonsense financially, you can go to patreon.com forward slash the true show make you for a pod at gmail.com. And if you want to support this nonsense financially, you can go to patreon.com forward slash the true show make you for a next stage, your hard earned pennies for all sorts of bonus stuff. And we might have to rethink the outro. The last thing we need at this point is another castle. Good point. Albatross. Sure. Lovely. Albatross is great. Castles were probably okay for them. Green rivers. Now we've got a river. Something maritime. We'll think about it. You think about it listeners.

Until next time, dear listener, don't let us detain you. Don't let us detain you. We didn't even talk about if we were keeping Don't Let Us Detain You. I think we are. Yeah, I think so. What can you replace it with? Unless this book ends with a lovely... I think we stick with Don't Let Us Detain You. We are still partially a Discworld podcast.

We will not always be a Gormengast. Yeah, and if anybody listening has never read Discworld and comes just straight from Gormengast, I quite like the idea of us being weird and aloof at the end.