The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - 10: Good Omens Pt.1 (Castles and Snacks)

Episode Date: February 3, 2020

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan-Young and Francine Carrel, read and recap every book from Sir Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series in chronological order. This week, we've travelled away from the Discworld! This is Good Omens, Part 1.Witches! Castles! Bookshops! Enid Blyton! Armageddon! Elgar! Find us on the internet:Twitter: @MakeYeFretPodInstagram: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: [e-mail] to follow your hosts and their internet doings? Follow Joanna on twitter @joannahagan and follow Francine @francibambi Things we blathered on about:Extra words in the American edition (the Annotated Pratchett Files)Wodge (Lexico)Good Omens: How Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett wrote a book (BBC)Good Omens - who wrote what? (Pratchett’s comment from 1992, alt.fan.pratchett)The Dream (Apple Podcasts)It Was a Dark and Stormy Night (Wiki)Forbidden Brides of the Faceless Slaves in the Secret House of the Night of Dread Desire (Good Reads)Dramatis Personae (TV Tropes - Good Omens is mentioned under ‘Literature’)Befriending the Enemy (TV Tropes)Cthulu Mythos (Wiki)Hastur (The Yellow Site)Not Like Other Girls (TV Tropes)Revelation 6, The First Four Seals (6:1–8) (Wiki)Phantom Time Hypothesis (Wiki)Elgar (Classic FM)The Second Shelf bookshop, SohoAshtoreth (encyclopedia.com)Saint Francis of Assisi (biography.com)The Reptilian EliteThe Fate of Phaeton (History Today)Charles Fort (the Sceptic’s Dictionary)Atheists (XKCD)Music: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.com

I would have been incredibly popular in the 17th century. No, I'm not sure about that. My research suggests otherwise, Joe. I would have been banned as a witch in the 17th century. So you, you have been doing something rather exciting and relevant to our episode. Yes, I went to that London yesterday. That London? That London. In the middle of the M25.

Yeah, that one. Are you all right? I've survived. Okay. It was a bit dicey for a second. Okay, well, I think we'll find out later why that was a bad idea, but go on. Look, nothing caught fire. Well, nothing caught fire while we were driving.

All right, tell me about that in a bit. But why are you going? Tell me about the general. I went to the National Theatre to see the stage show of The Ocean at the End of the Lane by Neil Gaiman. Oh, that's a really good book that we both like. It is. Neil Gaiman is relevant to this because he co-wrote Good Omens. He did. He did. He did.

And he is both of those things. How was the show? What is it? Just like a straight up stage show? No, no music or? Oh, no, so the music's amazing. The Jerick Bischoff did the score, who's done a bunch of collaborative stuff with Amanda Palmer. He was the one who told you about he did the music for The Mushroom Hunters.

Oh, cool, cool, cool. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, it was an amazing stage show. It's really hard to describe. They did all this incredible stuff. So it sort of opens on, like in the book, it opens with the character as an old guy at his dad's funeral. And... I don't know how since I read this.

I intentionally avoided rereading it before going to the show, so I could just enjoy it as a show and not think about like how accurate to them. Because they cut some stuff because there's only so much you can do on stage. But the opening shot was just a wreck. So we were sort of in the one of the balconies. We had really good seats. The guy who got them for us did really well there. There was sort of looking down on this thrust stage.

And there's just a rectangle of light in the middle of the stage and fake snow coming down that you can just see in this light. And six stage hounds came out dressed all in black with black umbrellas. And that's all you need to represent that this is a funeral. Yeah, that's great. And they did so much. Minimalist. Yeah, I mean they had complicated set pieces as well,

but all the big complicated set pieces were kitchens. So they had the kitchen table of the family home with a little thing that was the oven and the grill. And then they had the hemp stock farm with this big laden table. And they had these doors that kind of popped up from the floor. So as this kid's like locked in by the evil woman, these sort of these doors keep locking and another one pops up and it's locked and another one pops up and it's locked.

And they had sort of seats that came up from the floor of the stage. Amazing stuff with puppetry. I don't know if you remember the Hungerbirds, which is sort of... Mm-hmm. It was... So you'd have these stage hounds and you'd have something like one of them would be dressed up. They sort of wouldn't have their arms and they'd have the head

and someone else would be standing behind it and they'd be the wings of it. It was all done with this incredible like all in black puppetry. Ridiculously good stuff with lighting. Amazing bit where he's in the ocean with Eddie Hempstock. And they sort of... They made it so this character is now holding like a glowing puppet of himself. And like one of the stage hounds is helping manipulate this puppet so it looks like it's floating.

The whole thing was washed over in like a blue-green light and then they had these sort of plastic sheeting being whipped over the stage to look like waves with this beautiful score playing in the background. Like I was genuinely crying. Like I was crying at the Sandbits as well but just how incredible that was on stage. It was mind-blowingly good.

Well, that sounds great. The actors were good, I take it. Oh yeah, the actors were amazing. The guy playing like the main character, the young boy. He obviously wasn't 12, he was definitely in his 20s, but he did it so well and had... Because it's quite funny as well as being quite dark and magic and dramatic. And his timing of being like the voice of reason

around these three magical Hempstock women was just spot on. It was so funny. Oh, that's great. The woman playing National Moncton was incredible and also I really want to play that role now. I've got to reread this book. She's the flea who comes in as Lodger in the House and sort of suggests it.

Yeah, she managed the perfect balance of like Syrupy Suite in Sinister. It was so cleverly done, like she was just viciously smilingly sinister. It was incredible. She was really good and I really want to play that role now. Like that will never happen. But I really want to.

Well, you might. You could persuade... I don't know how licenses and stuff work. You could persuade your... I feel like... See, I've been calling this a show rather than a play because this feels like it's not a script that then could be licensed out and theaters could do.

Like they've made this production. It's a production. They've done this lighting and made this stage work with this... Okay. Yeah. Yeah, Neil Gaiman's very, what so ever, fisticious about how... I don't think he even had that much creative involvement.

Really? Yeah, I was reading some of the background of it and it sort of said... Someone sort of said, can we do this? We've got this idea and he's like attended all the development because it was... It wasn't just developing a script, but it was creating this puppetry in the way

they were going to realise this on stage. I like your theatre and advice. Can we do this? Excuse me, I like your book. Which, side note, I was listening to early episodes of Tea by Friday today and Max Temkin said that all theatre people are the absolute worst and should die.

So I feel personally attacked by this podcast you said I should listen to. Well, I can't be responsible for what Max Temkin says. He made cards against humanity. I mean, I don't know what you expected. I know, but I'm a theatre person and I'm not that bad. Well, I like Bill Hicks and he told me to kill myself indirectly, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Oh yeah, you make a good point. And actually, to be fair, I hang around with a lot of theatre people and they are the worst. Yeah. Yeah. So, do you want to make a podcast? I got set.

Yeah, right, let's make a podcast. Yay. That's not how you introduce the podcast. So, I'm sorry, I'm clearing my throat before I do the intro. What music, my story? I've forgotten the tune. I do like our music. All right, anyway.

Tickle, tickle, tickle, tickle. I'm sorry, I listened to like three episodes a day. Podcast. Podcast. Hello and welcome to the Two Shall Make You Fract, a podcast in which we are reading and recapping every book from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series in chronological order.

However. However. We're not doing that today. No. We're not. We're having a special month, special February. Special Feb.

Special Feb. No. Don't say that, let's not do that. Okay. We are not talking about one of the Discworld series. We are instead talking about Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman's novel, Good Omens.

Which is a favourite among so many obsessive people. It's such a good book. Yeah, it is. It's a very good book. And as it's on the beep now. It is on the beep. In television form. Yes.

So we thought we'd have a little chat about it. Yeah. A little chat. So a note on spoilers. Note on spoilers. Note it. We are a spoiler-like podcast. Obviously, major spoilers for the book we're reading,

which in this case is not the Discworld book, Good Omens. Yeah. But we are going to avoid spoiling any major events in future Discworld books. And we will save any and all discussion of The Shepherd's Crown at the final Discworld book until we get there.

It would be a real dick move to just put a random Shepherd's Crown spoiler in the Good Omens recap. Yeah, we're not doing that. We are also going to try and avoid talking about the TV show. So if you've read the book, haven't watched the series yet,

we will try not to spoil the things that are done differently. Yeah. But I mean, don't worry too much about it. It's a pretty good adaptation for you. Yeah. Also, quick disclaimer for one of our lovely Twitter followers.

Yeah, what's disclaimer? Brackets Twitter. I made a prompt, I joked one of our lovely Twitter followers that I'd make this disclaimer on the podcast that no yums will be yucked in the making of this episode. I feel like you're kind of

disclaiming on my behalf there, do I? I may want to yuck some yums. I plan on... I don't promise that I won't. I plan on not yucking any yums because I am perfect. I literally don't believe you

looking at some of your bullet points, but okay. I have managed to avoid... I wish this character would die in any of my bullet points, so I'm doing better than equal rights. Yeah. Yeah.

Nobody turns into a tree, I don't think, so you don't even have that opportunity. What does it write? Seriously, fuck this tree. Yeah. Or I like him better as an ant. Because he could be stepped on.

Right, so yeah, that's that. So, anything to follow up on from previous episodes, Francine? Yeah, I actually did some of my homework. Yeah, I know, I went through my old, my current notebook and some old notes and the mushroom hunters.

I'll be the new Game of Thrones that Amanda Palmer reads. Yeah, that one. Amazing animation. The very same. Yeah. The one you saw on stage, but I watched on YouTube.

But yes, that's more practical. But... Yeah, it was an amazing animation. And just a really... Obviously, it's a beautiful poem, and Amanda Powell wrote it, read it beautifully. But it's really interesting as well.

I really like the take on how... Women is the... Yeah. Yeah, women is the earliest scientists because they were experimenting with foraging and how the scientific method was kind of tied in with just learning to read. Surviving, yeah.

Yeah, I thought it was. Yeah, it kind of... I don't... Do you know Kim Stanley Robinson? No. I did Red Mars, that trilogy. Oh, I don't really read a lot of sci-fi.

Okay, well, he wrote a book called Shaman, which is on sci-fi. It's set in prehistoric times. There's definitely an era that it's set in. I've forgotten what it is. It's when all those ancient, ancient cave paintings in France or something were being done. Paleolithic.

Yeah, why not? Cool. But anyway, it reminds me of that because it's very much a similar kind of feel and the looking at the real practicalities of living in that kind of world. Yeah. It's had a really, really good book.

If I remember, I'll send you off with it. Yeah, no, don't... I have to read Pa's Trying to Kill Me and also one of my bits of homework for this podcast is to read Gormungast. Okay, I forgot about that. Let me put that in the document. I'll do that.

I need to add... No, I put it in there. Okay, well done. Yeah, I need to add to my to-do list. Buy Gormungast. Hmm, yeah. The entire castle. Because that would be a good place

for a good podcast. It might be noisy, but it would be atmospheric noise, so that would be okay. Okay, so now our future plan is to buy a haunted castle to make podcasts in. Yes.

Cool. I think that's more practical than our current plan of finally getting our shit together and buying some decent microphones. Yeah, no, let's get a haunted castle. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Brilliant. Glad we've agreed. If any of our listeners want to buy us a haunted castle... Yeah, please feel free. We are not the kind of people who like bulk it... bulk an expensive...

Yeah, no, no, sorry. Yeah, no. Definitely buy us castles. We are very into being bought castles. Don't worry if... Like, you're worried someone else might have bought one already. It's fine.

We could deal with multiple castles. Yeah, like, I feel that we could, you know, rotate for different episodes. We could do spin-off podcasts in different castles. We like traveling. Yeah, no.

Buy us many castles or snacks. Yeah, snacks are also fine. I'm really glad you... You like the mushroom ones, though, and that you listen... Red, Watched, Jesus. All of those, actually. Yes.

So, would you like to sort of introduce us to the book Good Omens? Sure. I mean, as far as I can, the book Good Omens was published in 1990. It was collaboratively written by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman.

Who we like? We like Neil Gaiman. It is, more or less, a book about the Ender's World. They're rung up to it. So, do you want to read the bub? Unless you want to? No, you do it,

because you've got a better quotation than me. According to the nice and accurate prophecies of Agnes Nutter, the world's only totally reliable guide to the future, the world will end on a Saturday. Next Saturday, in fact,

just after tea. That's the entirety of the blurb on my copy. Good. Yeah, no, this is twice as long on this for some reason, and is unnecessary. So, I like your version.

Yep. So, that pretty much sums it up. Unnecessary editions, additions in editions, editions of the American version, apparently has like 70 extra pages and about for extra footnotes. Really?

Is this footnotes just explaining English stuff? Yes, which is understandable, but apparently they added a whole bit about what happened to Warlock after he got home. Oh, really? Yeah.

I read that in the annotated practice files. I might have to get a copy of the American version at some point. Yeah. I nearly bought a copy of the American version last time I was in America.

I might be exaggerating the 70 pages, I don't remember. But it has a bunch of extra stuff. Yeah, yeah. I can see there being footnotes to explain some particularly English things, because it's a very English book.

Yeah, it is very English. There's a whole, like I kept highlighting particularly English things as I went through, because I thought that might be a fun topic, but I decided against it,

because there's nothing more insufferable than English people going, oh, slang is funny. Although I did like the word wodge. I love the word wodge. It's a perfect word for cheese.

Yeah, did you know it became like a different slang term for wedge in the 18th century, I think? No. Yeah, it was like just a deletion. Oh, that's cool. You know, when vowel sounds

were just going mental. Yeah. Oh, I learned a thing. Yeah, because it was originally started life as a parody of the Just William books, which I have not read. All I know about them is

that they are ridiculously English. When it's, when you say it started as a parody of the Just William books, was that in like Pratchett's brain before he started collaborating or? Yeah, I think it was like, I've got it.

I think it was Pratchett that started it and he had this idea for William the Antichrist, which was a parody of the Just William books. Yeah. There's a nice bit at the end and there's a quote I remember from it, which is like they,

he showed it to Neil Gaiman and said, I've got this idea, but I don't know what to do with it. And I think Neil Gaiman replied with something along the lines of, I don't know how it ends, but I know what happens next.

And that became the book. So I think it kind of originated with Terry Pratchett and then started going back and forth. There's lots of stuff in the forward and in the little interviews afterwards in my copy about how they wrote it, which was mostly screaming down the phone at each other.

And occasionally posting floppy disks and things. Yeah. God. Yeah. I'll put a link in the show notes where I'm reading it out, but there's a comment that Pratchett made on the Discworld fan forums

or Pratchett or something like that. From 1992, kind of explaining the writing process, which it sounds like was then very much incorporated into all these four words. And I think everyone now remembers the line, wouldn't do it again for a big clock. Yes.

Yeah. The four word in my copy anyway, I'm not going to read out the whole thing. Obviously, it's like three pages on. It starts with people say, what was it like writing Good Omens? And we say, we were just a couple of guys, okay?

We still are. It was a summer job. We had a great time doing it, split the money in half, and we swore never to do it again. We didn't think it was important, which like, you kind of get the impression from that forward

that they are really, really fucking sick of being asked about how they wrote it. Yeah. Which is understandable, but it's also understandable why people asked all the time, because it's like, you guys are both really cool. How did it work?

How did it work? Yeah. I'm seeing if I can find the... Basically, people wanting to flesh out their internal fan fiction with a bit of canon. Yeah. I mean, that's like 2006 as well. So that's 16 years after it's published.

Like, they would have been asked quite a lot. Only then. Yeah. I reckon so. So do you want to summarize before we launch into discussions? Yeah.

Well, so we're splitting the book in two rather than three this month. Okay. So this is the first half of the book, which in my copy, the Call of the Paperback, page one, Toro and Mighty One, basically up till Saturday.

Okay. So we open at the beginning of the world. Good. Adam and Eve get kicked out of the garden. And a lovely angel and snake discussing whether it was a good idea for the snake to tempt you with the apple. The book explains to us how old the world actually is

and that dinosaur skeletons are, in fact, a joke the paleontologists haven't got yet. We knew it. Ha! Well, also, that was a joke in Life Fantastic. Yes. That's why Life Fantastic went, oh, that's the thing!

We jumped to 11 years before the end of the world. And... Pretty big jump for it, fine. The snake, Crawley, has become the demon Crowley. He meets up with Haster and Liger, Dukes of Hell, to discuss their deeds of the day and who they've tempted,

before being given the Antichrist, who is a lovely little baby with adorable little Huffy-Woffies that he hasn't got. Little Huffy-Woffy kittens. Little Toasty-Woffies. He takes the Antichrist to the hospital and the big switcheroo takes place.

Yeah, that's a fun theme. Yeah, they attempt to give the Antichrist to the American ambassador, but he gets mixed up and is instead placed with the young, a lovely middle-English family from Tadfield. So it's a kind of sitcom episode? I would hate that it's all based around

stupid misunderstandings, but because they can sit into three pages in a funny way, it was good. Yeah. If it had been any longer than that, I would have hated it because I hate silly misunderstandings. Is it Comedy of Errors?

It's called, isn't it? Yes. Although there's a really funny song about it in the... All right, no, sorry. That's way off topic. So yeah, so the big switcheroo takes place. Baby's everywhere.

Oh, my God. Yeah. That's nightmares. Coming out your eyes. Sorry. What the hell? The Antichrist is sent off with a lovely charming couple

from near Oxford, lovely little village called Tadfield. We briefly meet a young anathema device and her book of prophecies that references her. We meet a lovely young Newton-Polserfolk causing a power outage when trying to change a plug. The convent in which the baby switcheroo

took place burns down. Satanic convent. Yep. Oh, sorry. Satanic convent. Crowley meets up with his angel buddy from the beginning of the world, Azirafel.

They go to get lunch, discuss the underworld and end up drunk in a bookshop, which is the scene I saw David Tennant do. I just like... Your brackets on that note is I saw David Tennant do this, like you watched him get drunk in a bookshop.

Have you never stalked David Tennant and then watched him get drunk in a bookshop? Not that I'd admit to on record, no. Oh, yeah, me neither. Anyway, so they agree that they're going to co-parent the child they think is the Antichrist, which is, yeah, very sweet. We get a little interlude

with the horse people of the apocalypse. We briefly meet Warfam in pollution and death gets a nice mention. Crowley goes to the American child they think is the Antichrist as a nanny and Azirafel the angel as a gardener and then they attempt to tutor the child in the hope that in raising to him his 11th birthday,

they can thwart each other's wiles and such. Could actually just end up with a very confused American kid. Yeah, we jump 11 years to the child's birthday. Warlocks. Warlock, the child they think is the Antichrist. So it's now a few days before the end... It's Wednesday, the world is due to end on Saturday.

Okay, good. It's warlocked. Keep an eye on that calendar. Yep, it's warlock's birthday, which is when his hellhound is meant to turn up. However, it doesn't and Azirafel and Crowley realize that they do in fact have the wrong child.

They never really go into what a waste of 11 years that must say. There must be really boring for them. I know, but they've been alive for like 6,000 years. 11 years is kind of a drop in a bucket. So yeah, so then we meet Adam, the actual Antichrist in his lovely little village outside of Oxford and Dog is hellhound.

He's now a very sweet little terrier. Perfect. Azirafel and Crowley realize that they've misplaced the Antilized. We get meet adult Nathema, who is tracking lay lines around Tadfield. Azirafel and Crowley crash into her on their way to where the Antichrist

was delivered to try and figure out what the hell's happened. Her on bicycle, lemon car. Her on bicycle, lemon car. They give her a lift. She leaves her book of prophecy in the car. Azirafel and Crowley go to what used to be the satanic convent.

It's now Tadfield Manor. Interarch a paintball game. Azirafel finds the book of prophecy. We pop back to the horseman to see a war receiving a package involving a flaming sword. And now it's Thursday. Yes.

On Thursday, the them discuss Nathema. The them. The them, Adam and his buddies. All right. Discuss Nathema. Then you come into the village. You might be a witch. They attempt to form a Spanish inquisition.

Actually meet it. Well, Adam, the Antichrist, actually meets her. Has a lovely glass of lemonade. And she introduced some magazines about the state of the world, what's going on, UFOs, Atlantis, and all that jazz.

Well, hey. A nuclear power station. Suddenly discovers all its material has disappeared. And that takes us to Friday. On Friday, we see famine. One of the horse people receive a lovely package. Adam bringing his newfound beliefs

about Atlantis and all that jazz to them, his little gang. Azirafel is still reading this book of prophecy. His cocoa has gone cold. Oh. And Nathema finally realizes that all these day lines are in fact converging on Tadfield.

The lossy sea of Atlantis turns up. Newton Pulsifer, as an adult, joins the witchfinder army. Azirafel finally works out who and where Adam the Antichrist is. And Shadwell, Newton Pulsifer's boss in the witchfinder army, agrees to send Newton to Tadfield

because it has a funny microclimate. Oh. So that's what happens in the first half of the book. Cool. That was as succinct as I could make it. A lot happens. Yeah, it is a, for not a very long book, an awful lot happens

that you can't really skip over and still make sense when you're trying to. Well, the first half of the book is 6,000 years and the second half of the book is two days. It's very odd pacing. Yeah. So that was 6,000 years. The next half is easier to summarize

because it's only two days. Check in on helicopter watch, loincloth watch, no helicopters, no loincloths as of yet. All right. We're keeping the bit. Okay. I mean, it's fine.

Fine. Yeah. Favorite quotes, Francine. Favorite quotes, Joanna. Um, let's do the usual chronological order. So I think yours is fast. Oh, okay. Well, yours is fast down second,

but let's just put them in one. Well, I think, uh, yeah, mine kind of go together anyway to be fair. Yeah. Uh, oh, I've got like three. Why didn't I take so many bloody things? Because it took me ages to narrow them down so you ended up with basic permission to do.

Yeah. We, we were going to pick one favorite quote each, but like, I also just wanted to read the entire book aloud because it's all very quotable. Oh, it is. Quote number one. Most of the members of the Convent were old fashioned satanists, like their parents and grandparents before them.

They'd been brought up to us in one, when you got right down to it, particularly evil. Human beings mostly aren't. They just get carried away by new ideas, like dressing up in jackboots and shooting people or dressing up in white sheets and lynching people or dressing up in tie dye jeans and playing guitars at people.

Offer a people a new creed with a costume and their hearts and minds will follow. Yeah. Why do you like that? I, well, it's really true and it ties in with, I'm kind of going to do two quotes as one, because there's another quote that Oh, okay, cool.

Is an interesting other side of it. Self quote. Uh, so this is when, so that's obviously when we're first hanging out with satanic nuns. This is when Crowley is talking about going back to see the satanists and he's sort of a bit embarrassed by them. There were people who called themselves satanists

who made Crowley squirm. It wasn't just the things they did, it was the way they blamed it all on hell. They'd come up with some stomach churning idea that no demon could have thought of in a thousand years, some dark and mindless unpleasantness that only a fully functioning human brain could conceive. And then shout the devil made me do it

and get the sympathy of the court when the whole point was that the devil hardly ever made anyone do anything. He didn't have to. So I just like them because the book is, the book doesn't really concern itself with the heaven and hell morality. No, only in so far as it kind of puts them across

almost is equally obnoxious. Yeah, but it does go really, really interestingly deep into what humans are and what they do and what they're capable of doing because of their belief in two different sides that don't really care about them within the book. Like it's not a very, considering it's about heaven and hell,

it's not a very religious book. No. It doesn't go deeply into theology, it just sort of accepts some theology as there. Yeah, which is, you know, better. Yeah. So I just thought it was really interesting look at people being people.

In a very negative way. It is very negative. There are some parts in the book that are less negative about people being people. Oh yeah. I mean, obviously they talk a lot about the innate goodness some people have or the fact that people in trying to do something evil

have actually been wonderfully good. Yeah. The point is it's all sort of human. Yeah. The idea of kind of being given a costume and a creed was it? Yeah. Like dressing up in sheets and lynching people or dressing up in jeans and playing guitars at people.

Yeah. But it's such a true thing. I wonder what it looks so compelling about. It's so abdication of responsibility. Okay. If you, this is no offense to people who are religious and do believe in something because I do understand that it's not for me anymore because of, you know,

that hole falling out I had with the Catholic Church. Oh, that old thing. But one thing I've noticed with some people is that this idea of especially people who kind of skip from belief to belief but always have something is, it's a way to abdicate responsibility for your own life and your own choices because you've given a lot of it to someone else.

You're no longer doing something because you want to or you don't want to. You're doing it because that person said to and you've kind of given over some of your autonomy almost to them. Which is, if you think about fucking how easily we get decision fatigue, there are times where it would be really nice to just go, oh, I'm just going to do everything

based on this. Yeah. Yeah. I'll join a cult. Yeah, I know. I've been listening to a really good podcast called The Dream which is about MLMs and kind of goes into cults because those two things are really similar.

Yeah, very much so. I'll send you a link. It's fantastic. I know you don't need another podcast right now but they're quite short episodes. Oh, I can do short episodes. I mean, the whole MLM thing is terrible. But yeah, they are cults.

Yeah. Cool. So do you want to go with your... Yeah. It's our page numbers are slightly different. Yeah, they are. I don't even know how I ended up with this edition. I used to have your edition.

I think I must have lent it to somebody. Oh, this is like the eighth copy of this I've had. I've lent it. Yeah, yeah. I still haven't... I just ended up with a really weird edition. I have two at home because I have one that sits with my Terry Pratchett books and one that sits

with my Neil Gaiman books. This is from my Terry Pratchett shelf because I'm keeping them with all the post-its in, facing out. Nice little record of all the podcasts. Oh my god, that's going to look so weird. I love it. It's great.

I will update with pictures as I go along. It is crap at the moment because it's like three books. Yeah, even so. Cool. So... Sorry, do forgive me. Oh yeah, so it's the passage that begins. It had not been a dark and stormy night,

which side note is quite a fun little thing. Anyway, I don't know. Do you know the first use of it was dark and stormy night? I do not. Which is now the t-shirt. Well, the first known use was actually by Washington Irving in his 1809 history of New York. But it was kind of just in the middle of a sentence

in the middle of the paragraph, not very interesting. The first relevant use, I would say, is Edward Bulwer-Lytton in the opening words of his famously poorly written book, Paul Clifford, published in 1830. And so that's kind of why it's become a cliché of bad writing. But just because I think you'll appreciate this paragraph. It was a dark and stormy night.

Seville. The rain fell in torrents, dash, except of occasional intervals when it was checked by a violent gust of wind which swept up the street's brackets. For it is in London that our scene lies, end brackets, rattling along the house tops and fiercely agitating the scanty flame of the lamps that struggled against the darkness. Well, which is kind of your general Victorian wankery,

but particularly notable for the punctuation which I included for that reason, because it's just the most bizarrely perpetuated- Oddly structured sentence. It's like a sample of eight itself. But the part I liked actually is nicely opposite to that point because it's so well written. It's just a random little sentence I just loved the sound of throughout.

It was a particularly dark and stormy night. And just after midnight, as the storm reached its height, a bolt of lightning struck the convent of the chattering order, setting fire to the roof of the vestry. And it's just really nicely written, and there's just these little rhymes throughout it, and the pacing is great. And it's like the sentence equivalent of Salador.

It's just, I just read it, I was like, ooh. It's something about the way all of the consonants just hit. That is a good sentence to tell. And I was like, that could have been practical, Game. They are both among the few authors I will occasionally just stop for a second and go, ooh, I like that sentence. Even though it's not particularly like, what's the word?

I'm pointing it. Yeah. It's one of those, I'm trying to avoid on this read going like, this is a Pratchett bit. This is a Game a bit. Yeah, yeah. Because like, they wrote. It's hard not to get it.

It's hard not to, but also they wrote and rewrote so much of each other stuff that you can't really tell where the Pratchett ends and the Game begins. And you can see kind of almost within a sentence. Like one started a joke and the other one's finished it all. Or like, I feel like it would happen this way around that Neil Gaiman has written something, particularly Florid and Wanky and Toe Pratchett,

but a punchline. I like this because it was a little callback to Equal Rights. Most books on witchcraft will tell you that witches work naked. This is because most books on witchcraft are written by men. Yes, and yes, after all of our, all of our chats about Equal Rights, I thought that was very appropriate.

It is. It is appropriate and true. What's your next quote? Mine is on, actually there's no point saying the page. It's 107 of my edition, whatever this is. But it's one more in the Tadfield Manicomference and Management Training Centre, previously the Satanic Commonwealth.

And it's Mary Hodges. Love her. Who was the sister? Mary Lucretius. Mary Lucretius, thank you. And is now Mary Hodges in High Heels and a slightly shorter hemline. And it's all business for Biddy.

Yes. So this is Mary Hodges about how she reinvented herself and Archie actually wasn't that scatterbrained if she just put her mind to it. Yeah. She read about new women. She hadn't ever realised that she'd been an old woman. But after some thought,

she decided that titles like that were all one with the romance and the knitting and the orgasms. And the really important thing was to be yourself, just as hard as you could. Which is very true. And I, as I'm trying to, like I've made a concerted effort to kind of grow and change the person in the last few years.

And it does very much come down to that, of just going, I like me when I'm this way. Let's do that more. Yeah. Rather than, oh, I'm going to try and fit into this all that. I'm going to change myself

and suddenly become very good at frisbee. Oh, I'm very bad at frisbee. It's not a bad example. I've tried to be good at frisbee. It's just not me. I've got the next quote, haven't I? You do. This is just a really silly throwaway line

that I really like partly because it's part of the dynamic I really like between Isera Fel and Crowley. They're talking about how the end of the world is going to take place. And Isera Fel says, it doesn't bear thinking about, does it? Said Isera Fel gloomily. All the higher life forms sides away,

just like that. Terrible. Crowley says, nothing but dust and fundamentalists. Isera Fel's response says, that was nasty. And I'm like, he doesn't say that Crowley's wrong.

No, that whole scene actually is quite interesting because Crowley's very much just kind of needling and ribbing. And there's nothing Isera Fel can say that they talk about Isera Fel says, maybe some terrorists and Crowley says, not one of ours or ours at Isera Fel. Although ours are freedom fighters, of course.

Yeah, that whole scene is kind of Isera Fel realizing what a wanky perspective that is, isn't it? It's like, and by the end of it, it's kind of trailed off. And they're like, all right, fine, let's just go and do something about it. Because they're talking about people having guns. They're talking about the political leaders

that their sides have. And Isera Fel named five political leaders. Crowley names it three names appeared on both lists. Human beings are like ridiculously ahead of Heaven and Hell in this book and have all their own shit going on. Heaven and Hell, I haven't really taken into account. Indeedy.

Well, actually, this takes us quite honestly, two characters, especially Crowley and Isera Fel who are the first two people we meet. They are. Although at the time we meet Crowley, he's Crowley the snake. Yeah, but close enough. Yeah, he becomes human quite quickly.

So just for context, this has a lovely dramatic persona. What does that mean, Joanna? People in the thing. That's the literal translation. Oh, great. Yeah, people in the thing. I'm an actor. Crowley, an angel who did not so much fall

as vaguely saunter downwards. Isera Fel, an angel and part-time rare book dealer. I love them just deeply, deeply. I haven't really got anything more nuanced to say about them other than I deeply love these two characters so much. Yeah, they are beautiful. Are you finding it... I know we're not talking about the TV show properly,

but are you finding it quite difficult not to see them as the actors that play them in the TV show? Yeah, that's definitely there. Although I still have had my own versions of them in my head already and that's still around. They were solid enough that they stayed. Yeah, they're kind of like blurry and overlapping. But also it's so well-cast in the TV show.

Yeah, it is really well-cast. The... I can't imagine two better actors playing it. That's so good. I have some thoughts about it of where there are bits where it doesn't quite work, but I will wait till we get to the TV show to really talk about that. But yeah, no, I love the characters.

I love the dynamic between them. I did think a bit with the TV show that the focus is like so much more than them and I thought it kind of wasn't as much in the book, but reading it now, actually the first half of the book is pretty much all then. You don't really get any focus on that and then until the second half,

which will be our next episode. Which makes sense because it takes them that long to find it. Yeah, it's just like a little more until then. Yeah. But everything about the arrangement, the whole enemies to friends, which is a bit of a fanficky term, there is a lot of fanfic out there

about the two of them, the shipping. And even before the series, people very much shipped them and now the series has come out. Do you know what would be a fun and horrible bit of homework if you find me a bit of fan fiction to read before we do the TV show once? I follow a bunch of Twitter accounts

that just do fan art with the two of them. Have you read any of the fan fiction? No really, but only because I don't really read fan fiction. Like I think fan fiction is a very good thing and I have nothing against it. But I have only got so many hours in the day and my actual to read part keeps trying to kill me. Yeah, okay, fine.

That seems fair. Well, I might go and do a deep dive then. You can do a deep dive into that part of the internet. I'll bring some fan art also. And snacks. I'll bring snacks. I will always bring snacks. Snacks in a haunted castle.

Snacks in a haunted castle. That's what we'd like. And see, I really wish I could be really more nuanced about Crowley and Azirafel other than just, I like them, they're good. But I like them, they're good. Excellent.

Haster, Liger, Liger. Yeah, so where is the Dramatas persona? Haster, a fallen angel in Duke of Hell. Liger, likewise, a fallen angel and Duke of Hell. Okay, cool. I like the reminder that hell is populated by ex-angels. Yes. Because that was always one of the bits

of the Bible that fascinated me the most, especially because when I was in year nine, I wouldn't say I think I was about 13, 14. You did spade rebellion against heaven. Yeah, no, a little bit. No, well, I played an angel that was part of the rebellion against heaven. So we did, what was the play called?

The Wakefield Mysteries, which is like the old use of the word mystery to mean like a set of stories. I didn't know that was a thing. Yeah, they're written obviously in Wakefield, which is Yorkshire-y type area. But this is a set of Bible stories, but quite funnily done.

And the opening scene is showing Lucifer getting kicked out of heaven. And I played one of the other angels that gets kicked out of heaven, so I had to be thrown off the stage. And I landed on my knee and hurt it. And then I also played part of the arc because we did Noah.

Oh yeah, so fallen angels now Duke of Hell. As much as Crowley has gone native. In the LinkedIn profiles. Yeah. Crowley's kind of fairly gone native. They very much haven't and don't really get us. Yeah. So I really like in the deeds of the day,

but when they're sort of saying, oh, we tempted a priest and 10 years I'll have him and they don't get what Crowley's saying. Yeah, tied up the phone network for half an hour at lunchtime. Like everyone's being so much evil is now happening. Demons like Liger and Haster wouldn't understand. They'd never have thought up

Welsh language, television, for example, or value-added tax or Manchester. Crowley had been particularly pleased with Manchester. Yeah. As we're mentioning Haster, I'm just going to stick in the reference to his name rather than do this all separately. Haster, I managed to find out,

is referring to an entity in the Cthulhu mythos, which in itself is a whole rabbit hole. I didn't even know existed and didn't have time to go down. Yeah, the supplemental materials around HB Lovecraft are ridiculous. Yeah, there's like a bunch of writers who did built upon Lovecraft's original works at Jen and Gaelas.

And you weren't as racist. Oh, cool. Because Lovecraft was particularly racist. Was he? Yeah. But August Derleth, in particular, was the one who developed Haster into some kind of octapoid deity.

I couldn't find what the hell Liger was meant to be, Liger. So anyone who does know answers on an alabagrass. Next character. Mr. Young. Oh, yay. Mr. Young. Mr. Solid. Mr. Young.

I such a, again, good bit of, I mean, I can talk about the whole book and keep going. This is a very good bit of writing. Do you know, I just think all of it might be really well written, Joe. I think it might just be quite a good book. Yeah. Cool.

But I wouldn't go home. Shall we bother with the rest of the book? I really like Mr. Young because it's a very, very specific type of human that I've only ever really observed from a distance. I've never had a Mr. Young sort of human in my life. I don't know sensible blokes who smoke pipes and check their cars.

And no, I suppose not. So I thought he was quite an entertaining character. And I like him. I like the way he's sort of quite happy about and, you know, he's glad that there are nuns around because that means the world's probably all right. And he's very much accepted his place in life, sort of confused a bit outside the hospital.

Yeah. Yeah. A very stereotypical father, old fashioned father of no one wrong. Well, yeah. It's one of the very stereotypical English things. Yeah. And he is a very English character.

Yeah. And yeah. So we have the order of St. Beryl. Uh-huh. I did try and look up if St. Beryl was a real saint. And I think we found she wasn't, can we add to check your 19th century encyclopedia? Well, I couldn't find her in the encyclopedia,

you know, like it's not in there. Well, it's nothing on the internet, but that's because if you look up St. Beryl, it now just comes up with stuff to do with the Good Omen's TV show, which is fair because there was like a whole choir of chattering nuns of St. Beryl formed around it and performed at Good Omen's events.

Okay. We'll talk about that a bit more on the TV show, but it's very cool. You know, it's kind of a marketing thing, way, but the downside is, yeah, you can't look up anything else. But yeah, so I don't think St. Beryl of Cracow was a real saint.

Shame. Peter Cook and Dudley Moore created the leaping order of St. Beryl for their 1961 film, Bedazzled. So I'm assuming it's a reference to that. Love a bit Peter Cook and Dudley Moore. Sister Mary Hodges. I know we've already talked about her a bit,

but I love her so much. She is pretty fucking cool, yeah. Excellent character. Anti-Patriarchy Duck moment. We don't have an anti-Patriarchy Duck noise. Wait, anti-Patriarchy Duck being feminist. We need a feminist bird. What's the most feminist bird?

Flamingos. It's not very difficult, mate. Not all women stand on one mate. It was the first bird that came to mind. I don't even know what noise they make. So yeah, so I love Sister Mary in Equatius. She becomes Mary Hodges. And going back to the bit, actually,

that you were talking about, the whole introduction of who she had decided to become, she'd taken over the manner, discovering that she had this very sensible woman inside her. I really like the line where she's talking about the different magazines she starts reading. She started reading the kind of women's magazine that talked about orgasms,

but apart from making a mental note to have one if the occasion never presented itself, she dismissed them as only romance and knitting in a new form. Very lucky as well because I took a photo of my copy of Good Omens for the post-it notes next to my page of notes. Glad that sentence ended where it did, yeah. So I'm really glad because I made them into notes and had a not-know. I took a photo of my notes with my copy of Good Omens

for the post-it notes to put on Twitter or something. Yeah, you're working on Good Omens. And didn't think about which notes you could see in the background, which is mental note to have an orgasm, queer-basing in capital letters. Queer-basing? We'll talk about queer-basing when we talk about the TV show. But that'll be a fun little rant of mine.

Looking forward to it. Okay, cool. It's not really a rant. Is it a powerful post-it note moment or a...? It's not really a feminist thing. It's a cynical rainbow-dollar rage thing. Oh, okay, interesting. I'm just being cynical.

So yeah, so I just really like... A woman speaks to the first time on page 37, which is Sister Mary Lequaceous. Definitely improving from colour of magic. But I just like the idea that she's a side character. There was no need to make her particularly well-rounded. No. She could have just been left in charge of the convent.

That's very prattious, isn't it? But it takes a side character and give her a nice story. And give her this whole backstory in about two pages. You never meet her again. She doesn't need a backstory. But you're introduced to this incredibly strong woman who goes, oh, actually, hang on. And like you were saying, like,

I have this whole person I am capable of being. Isn't that good? So yes, big fan of her. I hope she got around to that orgasm. Well, yes. I hope the opportunity presented itself. I'm sure it did. So we meet Young and Athema reading the prophecy book

that has a lot of stuff about her in it. And we meet her as an adult playing with her theodite and surveying. I completely forgot to mention when we first started talking about this book, the way she's described, which I think is quite an interesting description. She was not astonishingly beautiful. All her features, considered individually,

were extremely pretty. But the entirety of her face gave the impression that they'd been put together hurriedly from stock without reference to any plan. Probably the most suitable word is attractive. Although people who knew what it meant and could spell it might add vivacious. Although there was something very 50s about vivacious,

so perhaps they wouldn't. That's a really interesting physical description. It's kind of going, she's pretty, but don't worry, she's not like model pretty. She's like, she's saying, she's pretty, but very excessively pretty. I think that's a little unfair. Okay, yeah, fine.

Sorry, I'm very easily convinced. Yeah. I think that was very easy. There is some underlying, I don't know, I don't want to go as far as to say misogyny because I've made the point many times, I don't think the right is a misogynistic, but I think that might be an underlying cultural thing of going.

We need to be very reassuring that this strong female character isn't too attractive. But also isn't ugly. Yeah, we've not put her in for eye candy, but don't worry, she's not a munter. It just seems like you could- Yeah, that is pretty commonly found actually, isn't it, yeah. Yeah, especially like, it's a bit not like other girls.

Yes. Everyone's favorite trope, but it's also like just none of the male characters would be described like that. I mean, specifically in this book, I just think it's a bit weird and jarring because it's so unlike, and she is sort of the romantic lead in as much as there is any romance.

There is a small bit of romance in this book that's between her and another character, which I think is part of it because I think Newt gets a bit more of a physical description than other characters as well. So I think it's maybe because- Yeah, they're playing them as the poster children. Yeah, because these are the sexual beings of the book.

We'll talk a bit in the second episode about why they're actually quite pointless. I mean, I won't. Okay, they're not pointless. But we'll get to it. I have an argument. I mean, don't get me wrong, I think Anathema is a really good character.

I think she's really interesting. I think there's something very prajiti in writing another witch. Great, dear. The dog doesn't agree with me. She was a witch after all, and precisely because she was a witch and therefore sensible,

she put little faith in protective amulets and spells. She saved it all for a foot-long bread knife, which she kept in her belt. I love weapons that aren't weapons. Yep. That's a very prajiti thing. She does that with another witch character in a later book.

So, I do think she's an interesting character. She is, although there was- You said to me before, and I do agree, there could have been more Agnes Nutter in her. There could have been a lot more Agnes Nutter in her. I think Agnes Nutter is a much more interest- I mean, we don't actually meet her till the second half of the book,

but she's a more interesting character. The other thing I don't like is they make a point with Mary Hodges of introducing this character who became a lot better and more at home with herself once she threw off the shackles of magazines. And then you have Anathema,

whose entire belief system is magazines. Like, she believes- I mean, we don't- We don't need Anathema to be a really good person. No, I don't think she needs to be a really good person. It would be nice if she was more well-rounded. Yeah. Specifically because there's not that many

female characters. But again, if we go to the second half and like the end of the book, I feel like that's kind of- She does have her throwing off her shackles moment. Yeah, that's right at the end. Yeah. I feel like-

Yeah, it's not so much I think she's a bad character. I think the book is kind of mean to her, and I feel like the book- Yeah. Could have been nicer. Yeah, gently pokes fun at her. Yeah. I don't know.

Is it mentioned how old she's meant to be? I'm kind of imagining her as like 23. Yeah, I feel like she's the younger side of 20s. She's like- She's younger than 25, I'd say. Especially if you- Well, she is- Oh wait, we should know, shouldn't we?

She's 19. Oh, she's super young. Oh yeah, okay, fine. And then I've got a bit more time to spare for them because I remember who I was at 19. She took very well. At 19, I didn't even have a magazine personality, let alone an actual one.

Yeah, my personality was mainly chain smoking and not sleeping. Yeah, my personality was literally alcohol, nicotine, and caffeine combined with- I'm a chef, don't you know, until I stopped being a chef because I broke my ankle. Yeah.

And then I stopped double-closing. Oh man. We've done well since then, haven't we? Well done, us. We're alive. We've improved a lot. We have. Anyway.

So we're introduced to the four horse people of the apocalypse. Very cool. I like that they are- They're anthropomorphic personifications. Oh yes, they are. We have death, but it's not quite Pratchett death, but it is a bit Pratchett-y death around the years.

If he had them. Oh yeah, good point. He doesn't have any ears. How does he smell? But I like that they sort of have side gigs. Like, they have to do something until the apocalypse. So like, so war is a war correspondent. Oh no, she's an arms dealer who becomes a war correspondent

and famine's got a lovely business, not selling food. And although if we're going to talk about female characters, war is like weirdly sexualized compared to the male horse people. And within the context of the book, Pollution Being Male, because in the show they make pollution kind of non-binary, which is very cool.

But yeah, war is sort of described as being incredibly sexy. I think that was what was going to happen. I mean, I kind of get the logic as well of, you know, getting the blood pumping and passion and blah, blah, blah. That's true. I mean, yeah, if we're going to go there, like a lot of the goddesses of war were also the goddesses of sex.

Yeah, there's a lot of sex water. I'm just going to, I'm meant to grab the quote from Revelations where the four horsemen are introduced. And I've got it on here, but I haven't. Oh, cool. Well, if it's on your phone, I won't go and get my Bible. No, because your Bible's rubbish. All right.

Okay, it's not rubbish. It's a Bible. It's your Bible, the text has all been kind of modernized a bit and the original wording of the intro. Well, I'm sorry, it's not an Aramaic. No, but it's like, it's almost conversational and the like earlier translations. Sorry.

So yeah, so this is the bit of the Bible where the four horsemen are introduced. Okay. In Revelations chapter six. And the reason I looked it up is because there's a bit where Famine's introduced and the supermodel asked him to sign a book and he writes something weird in there.

Like from Revelations when Famine's introduced. I watched as the lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures saying a voice like thunder, come. I looked in there before me was a white horse. Its rider held a bow and he was given a crown and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest. When the lamb opened the second seal,

I heard the second living creature say, come. Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword. When the lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, come. I looked in there before me was a black horse.

Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying a quart of wheat for a day's wages and three quarts of barley for a day's wages and do not damage the oil and the wine. When the lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, come.

I looked in there before me was a pale horse. Its rider was named Death and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over fourth the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague and by the wild beasts of the earth. Yeah, so that's referenced quite a lot throughout the book actually. So yeah, probably worth you finding it nice.

So it's on drugs, huh? Whoever wore the Bible, yeah. What I find interesting about it though is the so the white horse is conquest. The red horse is war. The black horse is famine. And then there's death on a pale horse. Yeah.

Whereas the four horsemen as we know them now are well war, famine, death and pestilence. Pestilence has become pollution in the book. So this is, I think- And he's on the white horse. Yeah, so pestilence slash pollution is the white horse now. I think we've talked about this on the podcast before, that the four horsemen conquest became pestilence.

Yeah, we have, yeah, yeah. Because war and conquest were so similar. So I find it quite interesting there that the reference to famine, the reference to pestilence is there, but it's something the four of them destroy. The horse colours I guess match up to the names they've given the four horsemen as well.

So it's scarlet, it's war, sable, it's black. Mr. White is white. Yeah, Mr. White was also known as chalky and- Death is non-specific pale. Yeah. Yeah. Death is, you know, a bit rock and roll. Skull head.

So yeah, so four horse people are the apocalypse get introduced. That's very cool. We also meet the international express guy, which is just so fucking precious. Oh, he is precious and so committed to his job. So committed to his job. And again, I'm just going to read out a lot. Sorry, I'm reading out a whole bunch from the book.

There was some shuffling amongst the cohorts in the doorway. They seemed to be doing their best to stand firm, but they were being inexorably edged out of the way by the muttering, which had begun to resolve itself into audible phrases. Don't mind me, gents. What a night. A three times around the island, nearly didn't find the place.

Someone doesn't believe in signpost A. Still found it in the end. Had to stop and ask four times, finally asked at the post office. They always know what the post office had to draw me a map. They've got it here somewhere. And that's how the international express guy who delivers the sword to war and the scales to famine and the crown to pollution gets himself in,

in the middle of a war zone as a gunfighter's breaking out by just muttering. Yeah, that probably works. Yeah. Oh, no, I've seen that happen. There's a few kind of key items or ways of behaving that you can use to get in pretty much anywhere. High vis, really effective.

High vis and looking a bit confident. Clipboard. Clipboard. Pretty good. We meet Adam the Antichrist, who is a lovely young Antichrist. Yeah, it's not a lot to say about him in this one. Well, we also meet dog, which is better.

I like the entrance of the Hellhound and that it's meant to be massive and scary. Unfortunately, his master is talking about what he'd really like is a small dog that can run down rabbit holes and has an inside out ear. He's quite right. That is the best type of dog. And names him dog.

And in that naming, because the naming is meant to sort of generate some of the character of the Hellhound, the Hellhound becomes this platonic ideal of... Which is quite like parallels to the Bible of it, isn't it? When God's naming stuff and making it thus. Yes. So we meet Adam and dog, which is lovely.

And the rest of them, Adam's little group. Yeah, basically. The guy from an Enid Blightenberg. Yeah, it's Gavin Enid and ropes and torture and all that. Basic children. Yeah. I didn't really matter what the four are called. Their gang over the years,

the frequent name changes usually being prompted by whatever Adam happened to have read or viewed the previous day. The really well-known four is my favourite example given there. The Justice Society of Tadfield is also a good one. Everyone always referred to them darkly as them, and eventually they did too. Very much ties in again with that very sweet

English village-ness of the book. Yeah. And then, yeah, we meet the adult version of Newton Pulsifer, who was very bored of his life and decided to sign up to the Witchfinder army. As one does. There's not a lot to say about him, because he doesn't really come into this properly

till near the end. Same with the introducing Shadwell. Yeah, let's talk about them in the next episode. Right, so that's all the characters it's really hard to talk about character introductions in this book. A, because we're splitting it into two, rather than three.

Yeah. And B, because it's not like with Discworld where we're talking about characters that are going to come back in the series. Like, all of them are only in this book, because this is a standard book. But those, I think, are the most exciting ones we meet. So jumping right back to the beginning,

there is a very sweet dedication to G.K. Chesterton. I have something to say about him in the next episode. Oh, do you? Is there a reference? Yeah. Well, I'll say it for most of that for now. But I like that he's described as a man who knew what was going on.

Have you read some? Yes, I have now. You have now? Yeah. Because we talked about it. Yeah. Off-air homework. You doing your homework?

Yes, I really like the dedication to G.K. Chesterton. The 14th century? Oh, yeah. So, at some point, Crowley references, well, at some point, page 26. I put it there. Why not actually open the book to one of you post-it notes, don't you?

The reason he was late was that he was enjoying the 20th century immensely. It was much better than the 17th and a lot better than the 14th. Yeah, and he goes on to say the 14th century was the most bloody, boring 100 years on gold's excuses, French earth. But the 14th century was super-duper interesting.

Oh, not interesting. It was tragic and awful and full of evil. Yeah, it looked a lot like it. You know, interesting for that. It was a great famine. It was a black death. Between them, they killed half of England's population. But then I saw, actually, as I was writing this term,

maybe he was bald because he didn't have to do anything. Yeah, like, ever. Because they keep mentioning the 14th. They mention it a couple more times at first. I thought it was an oversight, but actually. I wondered if it was something to do with there's some historical theory, and it's probably bollocks about lost centuries.

I'm not really well educated enough to talk about this, but there is some theory that because of just decades, barely key back your records for a decade, let alone hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years, there's some error in record keeping. It means, actually, we've accounted for 100 years that doesn't exist somewhere in the Dark Ages. Cool.

I would enjoy that if that's the case. Yeah, which means, actually, it's now 1920. I think it's missing century or lost century. Yeah, something to do with extra century. It's lost century theory or something. It's that we kind of just, like, miscounted at some point, and the 14th century may not exist. Cool, cool, cool.

Look, I don't really know enough about it to speak on it with any authority whatsoever. It isn't at the theme of this podcast, right? Yeah, but then also, like, I've been listening to History Podcasts and the caveat of everything in those is, but we don't really know. Yeah, that is... So, yeah, so that could be a missing century.

I really like when you get the Hell vs. Heaven musical edition, where this is a Xerophil and Crowley arguing, and he's trying to convince Xerophil, like, we need to avoid this whole end-of-world drama. He's saying, like, we don't want to go back to Heaven and help you would hate Heaven. Yeah. Like, Heaven's got Elgar and List.

That's all. We've got Beethoven, Brahms, all the Bachs, Mozart, the lot. And he's got a fair point. I don't really know Elgar. Does he have...? You're all right. Okay, cool.

Yeah, keep it that way. Is it very christy-ny? Very. In fact, yeah, I guess it would be. But just the list of things that Crowley's like, eggs without salt, no salt, no eggs, no gravlax with their sauce, or fascinating little restaurants when they know you.

Sorry. But I just, I love the idea of, like, A, him knowing a Xerophil not well enough to know exactly what a Xerophil loves about Earth. Yeah. But also, him knowing exactly, like, where not even Hell has the up on Heaven, but where humanity has the up on Heaven.

Yeah, because there's nothing, like, all of the really interesting things aren't one thing or the other. Like... Yeah. Scansion. Mm. Yeah, that's a word.

Yeah, just this one. What do you know? A small bit I like, which is appropriate for this section, called Little Boops We Liked, as it paid 56. Most of the profits of the past millennium were more concerned with scansion than accuracy.

Crowley pointed to the ignition T key. It turned. What? He said. You know, said the angel, hopefully. And the world unto an end shall come in Tumpty Tumpty Tumpty One, or two, or three, or whatever.

There aren't many good rhymes for six, so it's probably a good year to be in. But I just love it because the whole putting aside accuracy for the sake of having a decent meter and rhyme, even if you're meant to be writing a prophecy is something I would totally do. Yeah.

I really like nice classic meter and poetry and stuff, and I would definitely mislead my ancestors. No, the other one. Descendants. Yeah. For the sake of... I've changed entire topics of a poem because a certain word fit,

like, made the scansion in the line so well, and I went, oh, well, I guess this poem is about that now. Yeah. You've got something about bookshops. Second hand bookshops. So this is more fun because I went to a really good... It's not really a second...

A rare bookshop. Oh, yesterday. How do you recommend? Second shelf. It's a little hard to find. It's kind of tucked away. In fact, it's tucked away in Zoho, Smith's Court,

and it's tiny and it's pink. Thank you. I'll do a link in the show notes, but they sell rare first editions and rare books all by women. That sounds like somewhere I shouldn't go. Oh, well, I nearly spent so much. On account of my terrible financial control.

Yeah. I nearly spent 75 on a first edition of Gentleman Prefer Blonds by Anita Lees. I resisted the urge, but I did buy a lovely... Actually, I'll go ahead and pitch a book. Ooh. In addition, I hadn't seen.

With illustrations, I hadn't seen. Nice. Okay. So that was cool. But no, the reason I like... I like the accurate depiction of second hand bookshops and it being somewhere with a very grumpy bookseller

who doesn't really want to sell you a book. No. Used to have one. Yeah, we used to have one across the road from where I work, which is actually... He was really nice to me because he knew me and he got me like a bunch

of first edition cherry bratchets. That's where I started collecting them is because he had some in stock. He was such a stereotypical second hand slash rare bookshop. Yeah, I don't mind that. I do not demand customer service. No.

I don't demand customer service, but the depiction of a zero fellow someone who does not actually want any of the books to leave the fucking shop, thank you very much. He used every means short of actual physical violence to prevent customers from making a purchase.

Which I like because also it's a zero fellow being a bit mean. Yeah. And I like that the book remembers that he... This is the greater good. Is it for the greater good? No, but in his head it was. Yeah.

Like gloring looks, erratic opening hours, unpleasant damp smells, and I just like the idea of knowing that a zero fellow, this godly celestial creature, has got a bit of bastard in him. Yeah, yeah. Which we come to a bit more.

Yep. Cool. But not when he is being brother Francis, no. Lovely Gardner, Warlocks Gardner. Yeah, no, this is just a cool little thing. Nanny Astreth, the evil Nanny. Astreth is...

Goddess of sex and death. Goddess of sex and war in various ancient, yeah. Sorry. Ancient cultures, including the Canaanites. And brother Francis, I'm guessing as a reference to Saint Francis, who's generally associated with love of nature and the environment.

Animals. Animals. And then in 1979, Pope Jean Paul II. JP II. JP II. That's what we call him. Declared Saint Francis, Pink and Saint of Ecology.

Oh, did he? Do you have one of those? Yeah. Oh, good effort. Good effort, Paul. Yeah, I just like the fact that they shoved in so many fucking references into this book. Like, have you looked at the Annotator

Patrick file for this? I started, and then, yeah, Rabbit Hole. It's so clever, and they just, it's something I really like about, like, really good comedy, is there's just, it's joke, joke, joke, like, this could be a blank space, or squeeze another joke in.

Yeah. And it's just Easter eggs throughout as well. Easter eggs, it's not a joke, it's a mythology. Yeah. They just cram it full of stuff. It's a very good value book. It's a very good value for money.

It's like a really good video game with a lot of side quests on it. And like, I spend all my time doing the side quests and never finish the main story. Oh my God, I have so many research rabbit holes for the second one. And like, the little stuff, when Crowley is being Nanny Asteroth

and the nursery rhymes seem to work, Grand Old Trooper Warp had 10,000 marched them up to the top of the hill and crushed all the nations of the world and brought them under the rule of Satan, our master. Yep. Cool. Yeah, we already kind of talked about the forward,

didn't we? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're going to talk about GK Chesterton next week, because you've actually done your homework, and I haven't, although I have read GK Chesterton before, just not for a very long time. Yeah, I think it's okay.

It's just one poem I looked at, really, that is relevant. Yes. Weird Christian writing. Private for anybody who knows it before I tell them next week. Um, seeing proper grown-ups around. Oh, sure.

So you've actually briefly referenced this. It's right at the beginning when... Oh, when Mr Young... Yeah, Mr Young is saying he feels reassured by, like, the Salvation Army being around and nuns being around. Fucking Salvation Army. Yeah, well, well, personally,

I'm not reassured by either of those groups. I definitely get what he means by, like, proper grown-ups being around. Yeah. They're like, okay, everything's okay, because I can see some nurses. Yes. Or everything's okay,

because I know him and he's, like, a teacher. That's okay. He's a proper grown-up. He is a positionable charity. Yeah. And while I like that, it was mainly just an opportunity. She put in one of my favorite obscure facts,

which is the Waffle House Index. Do you know the Waffle House Index? I do not. You do not. It's an informal metric, but it's used by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, FEMA. This is Federal Minors in America.

Yep. To kind of work out how bad a storm is. Yeah. And it's because Waffle House is, like, a chain of fast, not fast-food restaurants, but they're, like, diner-y type things, aren't they? Yeah, and they sell waffles.

Yeah. Unsurprisingly. We'd really weird if they were called Waffle House and all this out, but it was, like, roast dinners. Yeah, that would be really misleading in that setting. Yeah. Sometimes roast dinner is nice,

but not when you want a waffle. Roast dinner or a waffle. Right now, I could go for either, actually, so... No, I was thinking of serving a roast dinner on a waffle. Oh, we see. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, cool. Cool.

Cool. After the podcast. After the podcast. But it's known for opening just, like, throughout any terrible circumstances. Yeah. And, like, so much so that the former head of the Federal Waffle FEMA has said,

if you get there and the waffle house is closed, that's really bad. It's, like, I just really love the idea that... So the Waffle House index is, it's only a really bad disaster if they can't even keep the waffle house open. Exactly. And I just really like it because, A, that's fine.

Yeah. And, B, it's a really nice idea that in a, you know, is there a town stricken by some disaster or another fire or a storm or something? There's a constant... There's, yeah, there's this little Waffle House and people are going to the Waffle House and having waffles and probably meeting up

and extending what's been going on and a little anchor. It's a way of the world's continuing spin on its access. Yeah, exactly. Like, none's for Mr. Young or, I don't know, sensible men with clipboards for us. Yeah.

No, not sensible men with clipboards. Oh, god. They are out to get you. Yeah, all right, fine. I won't make any comments about the Environmental Health Organization. Okay. They hurt me.

Anyway. So, I want to talk about... Actually, coming back to Mr. Young, in fact, in the same section, and this is something I've brought up a lot and I feel like I just need to put in my own preface of I'm not trying to be a dick here. There is a difference between

misogynistic characters and misogynistic writers and prejudiced characters and prejudiced writers. Sure. So, you know, Kavya, I am not saying that Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett are racist. You need to stop saying that before you say anything. Like, you've said it like three times in this podcast already.

I know, I know. We get it. People are really big fans and I don't want to be a dick. I know, but just... Sorry, I'm now actually trying to find the line. That's what came of letting her order her own newspapers. It's something Mr. Young thinks about his wife

while she's now having opinions. And it is a really good character thing of going... Like, he's not really a bad person but he's got this weird subtle misogyny of I shouldn't let my wife order her own newspapers. She'll have all sorts of funny ideas. But I thought it was more interesting, maybe not interesting.

It was really jarring later on. There's a weird homophobic slur at the moment. Oh, during Warlock's birthday party. During Warlock's birthday party. And it's a young kid's, like, obnoxious 11-year-old that is saying this word. Yeah. But I don't think this, that begins with F

and that I'm not going to say, but it's in a popular Christmas song as well. I don't think that word would have made it into the book now. Yeah. I think they could have easily used something else. And you could still have a little girl being homophobic in the book because some dickhead posh little girl

probably would be a bit homophobic. Yeah. Yeah, so, like, I think it's quite interesting that there are other moments in this book where I almost would say, like, this is a bit of a misogynistic choice on the part of the writer, like with the anathema and the way she's described.

Sure, sure. And, but then I do quite like that it makes a difference between, like, some of the characters are just racist because it makes sense of that character. Yeah, yeah. I'm just sit quite in the corner and have a tin of condensed milk. Yeah, which is a really amazing habit to have.

I'm wondering which of the new someone who did that, because that's so specific they had to have. There must be. Okay, let's talk about the arrangement because that's such a central part of the book and we haven't really touched on it apart from saying how much we like Azirah Fallon Crowley. Sure.

The arrangement was so simple that it didn't really deserve the capital letters. And it's what I was talking about before about the sort of enemies to friends where they've been working together for so long that they don't really, they're not really opposition anymore. Yeah.

And they sort of have this arrangement of letting things slide with each other so they can both look good to their superiors back in heaven or hell. I have to say, even when they're first introduced and they're clearly on the opposite sides or whatever, they're like, they don't hate each other. They never did.

Like, they know they're basically... It's sort of like it's just a job type thing. Yeah, yeah. And they've got more in common with each other than anyone else because they're celestial beings who've been on Earth for a really long time. Yep.

Many isolated agents working in awkward conditions along way from their superiors reach with their opposite number and they have really realised they've more in common with their immediate opponents than their remote allies. Now, I just... I think it's really sweet

and I think it's so central to their friendship and their dynamic to accept that actually neither of them really care about the heaven and hell of it all and the good and bad of it all. Really, they just sort of want to crack on and get away with as much as possible.

And so they pop off and do quick temptations and moments of celestial bliss for each other. Yeah. So I enjoyed that. I thought the arrangement was very sweet. There is a weirdly racist line from a Crowley bit at one point though. Like, just it again jarring

and not in a character who's being racist. As soon as the car had stopped he had the back door open and was bowing like an aged retainer welcoming the young master back to the old plantation. Yeah, that's weird. I thought it was just so interesting that I was thinking, oh,

I mean, things have really changed in the last like 10 or 15 years that that wouldn't be... And then I remembered that 1990 was 30 years ago and that we're all slowly dying. Good, yeah. Yeah.

But also things have changed so much and it's so jarring to think that in 1990 that wasn't a Jesus Christ. What the fuck is that line, dude? Like, I know it doesn't change a lot. Yeah. I know obviously it doesn't say the word slave there anyway,

but it says young master and aged retainer and plantation. Like, that is... And there's a funny bit in the second half of the book, line about slavery as well. And I don't think funny like ha ha. I mean, again, oh, a bit odd, a bit jarring. Yeah, yeah.

What were we doing there? So I thought that was really interesting. Yeah. But talking of going back to the 90s, like obviously we're not nostalgic for racism. No. No. Sorry, I'm desperately trying

to cramp me in a second here, Francine. The fucking nostalgia in this book. Oh, it's so nice. Oh, I like it a lot. Yeah, just the sunny afternoons that structure forever when you're a kid. Yeah, just the whole idea of playing outside and making up huge imaginary universes

with storylines and... That was the feature. And it lay at the other end of a long warm afternoon that contained planks and ropes and ponds. The future could wait. There's just... The English language is insufficient to describe that feeling that I can almost bring back.

The fact that this book feels so nostalgic considering it was released in 1990 and it feels nostalgic for a childhood that I had in the 90s. But the nostalgia on the part of the authors is obviously there the same way it is for us now. And it's just beautiful because they managed to capture such a perfect snapshot

of being a kid. There's another line somewhere. I can't remember if it's in this half or the next one. There's something to do with pepper. And they're saying the kids haven't gone through pubes yet but they're at the top of that hill and they're about to crush down it. And so this is very much that pre-pubescent time

where you do, you run and you play and you're covered in mud and there are planks and ropes and ponds and that's an afternoon. Yeah, that's just the... I really felt moving out of that because I think I was lagging behind a little bit on that. So when my peers stopped playing imaginary games like that, I still really wanted to.

And I really felt that loss quite keenly. It's something I've tried to recap for as an adult with RPG games, like video games and with D&D and I've just never... You get little flashes of that feeling. But no, it's not quite the same because literally my brain chemistry isn't that anymore and it's really sad.

At some point in the summer, I want to try and get everyone together to go to a big park and play 4040 and hide and seek. And have like a ridiculous childish summer party. But as much as I really like the nostalgia in some places, the book does feel weirdly aged and one of them is with Anathema. She's a bit of a novelty

because she has all of these magazines and she believes passionately in everything. Another bit, Anathema didn't only believe in lay lines but in Seales, Wales, Bicycles, Rainforest, Whole Grain in Loaves, Recycled Paper, White South Africans out of South Africa and Americans out of Practically Everywhere down to an including land island.

She didn't compartmentalize her belief. They were welded into one enormous seamless belief compared with which that help by Joan of Arc seemed a mere idle notion, which is great. It's a perfect description of her character. Like she solidly believes in everything and she is this sort of...

In the 90s, this caricature of that slightly which he hippie person. But that's really aging because I don't know anyone... I don't know any woman in her 20s now who doesn't believe passionately in Wales Seales recycling a bit of vegetarianism. I don't know how passionately I believe in Seales. They're weird.

They are kind of creepy. But you believe that people shouldn't club them to death, I'm assuming. Maybe, yeah. I just feel like it's a bit dated because I don't know any... Maybe it's just the people I know or maybe it's just the people I know on the internet

but everyone seems a bit Anathema around the years now. Like because there's so much more awareness of the climate crisis and what's played off as a joke here is now something we're all legit terrified about. Because the world is burning. We've kind of come out the other side though, like I got so terrified about everything

that I genuinely find it very hard to emotive about anything outside of my own little bubble anymore. We've gone fully into capitalism these days, haven't we? Oh yes. Oh yes. Or, you know, thinking that the climate crisis is all made up, like some kind of dickhead conspiracy theorist.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, why not? Which is a joke the book makes. Adam's talking about... Adam's trying to convince all of his friends of all the stuff he's learned from these magazines that he's amazed by and the fact that UFOs do come that the government hushed it up. I know a few people who believe in varying conspiracies.

I know I've met flat earthers. I know someone who doesn't believe that we went to the moon. When you sort of say, well, okay, but how did that... Well, the government hushed it up. Why? And that's the thing that very rarely gets answered. It's why it was hushed up.

Yeah, just the government hushes up. It's what they do. And it's what the book says. It's just like, well, yeah, it's just like what the prime minister does. He gets to work, he has a cup of tea, and then he takes out the big folder of things to hush up with his big red stamp.

Yeah, pretty much how it works. Yeah. I mean, you're joking, though. Please. Please, Francine. Of course, I'm joking. The stamp. The stamp is blue.

Sorry, I can't lose another one to the conspiracies. I can't. No, my favorite thing about conspiracy theorists is the whole just outdoing them at it. Oh, yeah. So, like, arguing little points like that, or just by making it even worse. So, if an unnamed ex-friend of ours does something like,

oh, well, you know, the moon landing's made up, you could, you know, the moon gravity doesn't work, that or something, like... He's leaving the moon. Yes. Doubling down and then overtaking. Or being on the same level and just massively deflecting or something.

Just like, oh, yeah, no, absolutely. And because you know about those little hurricanes on the moon as well, like, the plaid wouldn't have lost it that long and see if they agree with you. Yeah. Because generally they're clean to anything, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you add in extra facts and extra facts.

The royal family or reptiles is one of my favorite ones. Oh, David Ike. Yeah, because... You are a source of so much glee and terror. Oh, I love it. But a little bit of me does believe that one. Yeah, I'm sure it went up. Yeah.

Could be true. Could be lizards. Could be rules by lizards. Not, not Harry anymore. Harry and Meghan have got out and become warm-blooded. Yes, that's how it works. We can go through the ceremony with the portal, stand on one leg and do the hokey-cokey.

Yeah, I mean, I still read the BBC article, but I think that was the gist. Yeah, yeah. It's really hard to do the hokey-cokey on one leg, actually. Oh, yeah, you need to be... Yeah. Wait, am I allowed to put the leg I'm not standing on in? Well, yeah, but you kick it.

You can't put it down on the ground. This is great visual content for our podcast. It, ah, it, ah, check it out. But, ha! Now, turn around. No. Dear listeners, please... I don't have time to turn around, Joanna.

There's only five minutes left on our little timer. Yeah, we stuck to that so well. That's the only reason. Yeah, so the government hushing it up, I thought was interesting. Thinking of people I know who don't believe in the moon landings, though, that does very much take me to you. I, I thought this is interesting because it does call back to something we talked about

during the, like, Fantastic, which is the smug, self-satisfied belief of atheists. Yeah. It's all about Newt and the fact, because Newt has kind of been a weird way, like, the polar opposite to Anathema, whereas Anathema passionately believes in everything. Yeah. Newt hasn't had a cause or found anything to believe in. Yeah. Nothing, exactly.

Yeah. I feel, I feel Newt very strongly on this. I'm very much believed. Every time I start believing in something, I look into it and I'm like, oh, wait, no, this is bollocks, too. All right, never mind. He tried to become an official, official atheist, but hadn't got the rock-hard, self-satisfied strength of belief even for that.

It couldn't do ecology, trying to believe in the universe and chaos and time and quantum. And yeah, I thought that was quite an interesting thing where it does call out this idea of this smug, self-satisfied belief of an atheist because we talked about it in the light, Fantastic, with the kind of atheist, red-star cult, dude bros. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, they weren't really atheists. They knew gods existed. They just didn't give a fuck about them.

They were like, anti-theist. Yes. But so I thought that was interesting that it calls to it again there in a nice little way. And I like the idea of having this fucking star-crossed or whatever, the romantic plot that is in the book being between someone who has incredibly rock-solid belief and someone who just cannot bring himself to 100% believe in anything. Yeah. And there's more absolutes there than there are in the

difference between heaven and hell. It's almost like the opposing sides in this are belief and non-belief rather than heaven and hell. Yes. There you go. Key theme of the book. And I think that's all I really had to talk about for Fogadomin's part one. Obviously we're going to do part two next week. Do you have an obscure reference video?

Probably. I did make a note of one just because there's so many references in it. All right, you do yours. I'm not trying to steal your bit. Anathema's bike is named Phaeton. Phaeton was the son of Helios, who is the Greek god who pulled the chariot that the son, Apollo's chariot of the son. Oh, cool.

And Phaeton at one point. Celestial chauffeur. Yeah, kind of. And somewhere in Greek mythology there is a story about Phaeton nicking the chariot and crashing it. Hey, joy riding. Yeah. Noice. So I like that that's what I like.

Teenagers be teenagers, yo. Believe in Greek mythology. So that's what Anathema's bike's named after. What is your obscure reference, Fenial? I'm not sure how obscure this is. A lot of people I know know about it, but that might just be because I know we're people. Yeah. So they, the them, the them, makes me sound like I'm stuttering.

The children are playing Charles Fort, exploring. Yes. And Charles Fort is the inspiration for something you might have heard of, which is the Fortian Times. That's it. I was, I accidentally had a subscription to that for six months. Yes. Which is a magazine full of bizarre events, bollocks.

Yes. Yeah. Bollocks such as ball lightning, rains of frogs. Bigfoot turns up a bit. Bigfoot, you know, teleportation, spontaneous combustion, all that stuff. I used to have books full of this when I was little. I loved it. Yeah.

I've always been incredibly skeptical about it. Yeah. Well, the fun thing about Charles Fort is so is he. Yeah. Like he didn't believe any of this stuff. He used it to needle the scientific establishment. But so Charles Fort is like chaotic neutral. Yeah.

Yeah, why not? Yeah. Yeah. He wasn't like particularly scientific or believing in this. He just wanted to one sort of. Yeah. Well, on the wiki, I actually quite liked it said, expressed in a sentence,

Fort's principle will go something like this. People with a psychological need to believe in miracles, to believe in marvels are no more prejudiced and gullible than people with a psychological need not to believe in marvels. Which is pretty much summing up anathema versus mute. Yeah. That's really interesting. And then I would like to side reference one of my favorite XKCD comics,

which is one dude going, oh, well, you know what? Like super duper annoying atheists are just as bad as fundamental religious people. And the other character going, well, the important thing is you found a way to feel superior to them both. That's marvelous. I think that's a really good note to end the podcast on. She links her period to everybody else.

Oh, we are. Thank you for listening to the True Shall Make You Threat special Good Omens edition. We will be back next week to discuss the second half of the book, which is the weekend of the apocalypse Saturday and Sunday, so for a middle to end. Yeah. In the meantime, follow us on Twitter at Make You Threat pod. Follow us on Instagram at the True Shall Make You Threat.

Find us on Facebook, the True Shall Make You Threat, or email us. The True Shall Make You Threat pod at gmail.com. Send us your thoughts, send us your arbitrosis, buy us a castle, buy us some snacks. And until next time. Oh, what are we going to say at the end? That?

Yeah, okay. Let's enjoy that. Let's not be naked when we're doing witchcraftery because you'll get all itchy herbs on yourself. It's cold. There are brambles and stinging nettles. There are stinging nettles. Stinging nettles and drizzle are not a time where you want to be naked.