The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - 123: Good Omens Season 2 Wrap-Up (The Horbs)

Episode Date: August 27, 2023

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan and Francine Carrel, are taking a break from reading and recapping every book from Sir Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series in chronological order, and talking about Good Omens season 2! This week, A final wrap-up before we head back to the Disc.Chairs! Delights! Wigs! TranscriptFind us on the internet:Twitter: @MakeYeFretPodInstagram: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretFacebook: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: [e-mail]: www.patreon.com/thetruthshallmakeyefretWant to follow your hosts and their internet doings? Follow Joanna on twitter @joannahagan and follow Francine @francibambi Things we blathered on about:Staged (TV Series 2020–2023) - IMDb Michael Sheen and David Tennant acting like each other's characters IRL - YouTube The Saga of Dottie and Sadie (compiled in a Twitter thread) Good Omens interviews on Terry Pratchett’s legacy and devils on their shoulders - YouTubeThat Google Doc - Google DocsGood Omens Season 2 Easter Egg Guide - Den of Geek  Good Omens 2 Easter Eggs - YouTubeMark Twain’s Mind Waves - The Paris Review Music: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.com

and there can be wild gesticulating. I'll be watching that stage. I only ever watched the first season of it. And that was during lockdown. And then I got through my, I want to watch lockdown content phase and into my, I never want to see anything about lockdown again phase. Yeah. And so I missed season two and season three, which I didn't realize came out really recently.

And so I've now watched season two. Well, I would rewatch season one, watch season two, now watching season three. I forgot what assholes they are. I know. The characters they're playing. It caught me off guard because I've been watching loads of interviews with them. And they're so sweet. Yeah, they're lovely.

Absolutely. And absolutely adore each other. Like Michael Sheen staring at David Tennant and Adoration as he speaks is very funny because it is very good homancy. Except now Michael Tine is heavily bearded and speaks in a heavy well-shack, isn't it, with a deep voice. But yeah, on stage obviously, the the the stick is that they're both incredibly cantangurous and I haven't watched season three yet. I think I watched season two when it came out. Yeah, the lockdown

content thing is weird though like I was showing my partner, Mythic Quest, and I hadn't re-watched it for ages, and we got to the lockdown episode, and I just started crying. Oh, I know. That's why even one of the good crying episodes in Mythic Quest. Oh, it is, it's some of it is. It is a little bit, it's the bit where Poppy starts crying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think that probably did make me cry as well, actually, because I remember it. That's how I remember it. I mean, as long down content goes, that was a very clever, well done episode of television. Yeah, it was. Yeah. It just also gave me emotions.

That's probably meant to, isn't it? Yeah, probably a lot of people are going for fucking people giving me emotions. Coming in here, I finally am watching and just like that, the sex and the city reboot. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I've seen so many clips from it on TikTok

and people bitching about it that I thought I should watch it for myself. So I know it's coming to the end of the second season. I'm still on the first. It is the criticisms of valid, I would say. Yeah. It is in trying to be progressive. It comes off as fairy. you're doing fellow kids.

E. Also my favorite one is an in it. Yeah, same. Do you remember when answer the first woman I saw topless on the television? No, that's nice. I remember clearly being far too young to be watching her riding a man in fairly explicitly. Yeah. She's hopeless.

If she's not, I'd imagine she was. I'm pretty sure that's probably the first topless woman I saw on television as well. Yeah. I mean, it's good start. Yeah. It's not going to be. It's fine for you. I did really like sex in the city when I was a child, I guess, in young teenager, but

it's in the same way that friends is difficult to revisit. I feel like that's going to be time's 10, so I just never have. I, um, I actually didn't watch like all of it when I was sort of child-sash young teenager and it was on because my mother eventually realized it was inappropriate. Maybe not leave me alone with the DVDs. Um, but I watched all of it as like an adult, like, I don't know, five or six years ago, I was like, oh, this is a huge cultural phenomenon. I should get around to it. And it does hold up, like, it's, it's of its time. It's very of its time. Some of the politics are really weird, especially around things like bisexuality. But for all that, like, it is an entertaining

watch. It does the suckers at show. That's cool. Do you remember that whole that, like, it is an entertaining watch. It does a suck as a show. Oh, it's cool. Do you remember that whole thing of, like, everyone had to sort of, everyone would say if they were a Samantha Rorakari or a Charlotte or a Miranda? Yeah. Yeah, that was a thing. I remember where I came down on that, probably no, whatever, because I didn't really have that kind of friend group at the time, but I remember it being in Miz and Cosme or whatever. Yeah. I think I'd probably say I'm a sonanth based on now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I probably wasn't saying that when I was, I know, 12 years old. I think I can remember the difference between Charlotte Miranda.

Miranda was the ginger one who's a lawyer and he's played by Cynthia Nixon who's very well-known outqueer actress and Charlotte's the like loggerhead Brunette one who's a bit pretty. Yeah, but like personalities. Oh, I think that was it. Lawyer and pretty. Wow. The two genders.

You fucking feminist. I'm trying to think of there's any other news. Yeah. Ballgame Tablecloth magnets don't work, so I've decided to disavow all magnets ever. Mm-hmm. Fridge? Even for a bunch of magnets? No, I have like a big magnetic weekly schedule thing on my fridge. I never write on it.

I'm making that. That's assuring it, it's fine. Yeah. In fact, that's worth because you're letting it know it should have a better person, that doesn't, that's fine. We're talking absolute bollocks, so... We absolutely are. Do you want to make a podcast? Hello and welcome to The True Shell Make-E-Fret, a podcast in which we're usually reading and recapping

every book from Toe Branch at Squared Series in chronological order, but we've taken a break from that to talk about good. I'm in season two. I'm Joanna Hagen. And I'm Francine Carol, and what a break it has been. What a break an emotional break as well It's just gone. Well, it literally emotionally broken now. This is our last episode for now on good omen season two It's our big wrap up episode Before we go back to the disc so note on spoilers before we crack on This episode will contain spoilers for all of good omen season two, as well as the book Good Omen's and season one of Good Omen's. However, while we are usually a Discord podcast, we will avoid

spoiling any major events in the Discord series, and of course we're saving any and all discussion of the final Discord novel, The Shepherds Crown, until we get there. So, if you're new to the Discord, you can safely come on the journey with us. Driving carefully in a yellow Bentley belonging to your beloved. I'm sorry. So I start with the big thoughts. All right. What do you think of season two of Good Omen? Well, Joanna. What do I think season two of Good Omen's? I enjoyed it, I think. I think overall enjoyed it very much. I don't know what to say overall. That's that's quite a big one to start with isn't it? That is a big one to start with. I thought we'd go big and then shimmy down. How do you feel that kind of compares to season one of Gidomas? Very different. Yeah, just a very very different way of telling the story. I think I still think season one was better paced.

Yeah, I agree. That was just the side effect of having a very tight, well-written book as the framework, as opposed to this when you were gaming had all the time you needed to take to get us to, you know, it's a bridge. And it was an enjoyable bridge to me and across. It was, I feel like this is a very distinct beast from the first series.

And I think like fingers crossed, we get a season three looking back on it. It will be like season one and then season two and three. And they'll be in a box, in two boxes, but very close to each other. I should think. And I'm imagining, and I will go this later, I'm imagining seasons three to be a bit more like season one

and it's in its pacing and build up. And what I think it's going to have a big thing is building towards, which I think will affect the pacing thing. I think the pacing for this, like just thinking about this, is a unique series of television. Although it's weirdly paced, I think that's because it relies on having a very deep investment in the central couple to build towards the outcome.

Yeah. And again, the only thing that bothered me about the pacing really was as I was watching at the first time going, well, we're nowhere. Yeah, I want to get to somewhere. I feel like a lot of the pacing issues would have been fixed if it had been a weekly drop rather than a binge drop. I think spacing it out into those six weekly chunks would have actually helped it. I mean, maybe, but we didn't watch it all the

longer. No, but we did what we did, like, blocks of one and two and three and four and we were watching it kind of with, I don't know about, like, how you watch it for doing the podcast, but I was like watching two episodes and then watching them again and taking notes on them and then pretty much since we were done recording, I was watching two episodes and then waiting for you the few days. So I was sitting a lot with individual episodes. I think if it was more evenly paced out across six weeks, I would have felt differently about it. Yeah, I also think it's possibly unfair for us to judge the pacing on that particular fact and watching though. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah, as a unique series of television, I think I agree. If you weren't invested already, it would be a very old thing to watch. Oh yeah. But the fact is that

Crowley and Zero Fail, or honestly, more specifically, Sheen and Tenant, are such engaging, incredible characters to watch that I would have watched them and fucking anything. It was fantastic. I loved the detail and the aesthetic and the weird little, I loved all the flashbacks and that shit. it and any shortcomings I saw elsewhere was mainly just because it was put next to sheen and talent who I do think are absolutely dependent actors. So yeah, that's obviously fair. I mean, it did feel immediately like we were back in the world of good omen season one. I didn't feel that distinctly different. You know, the music was there. They were there. The beautiful look of the whole thing was that. Which is interesting because it was very different the way they filmed it wasn't it because they built this whole bit of soho in Edinburgh. With the

forehand they'd been freezing their tits off somewhere I can't remember where but certainly not. They filmed a lot in South Africa for the first season. Yeah, obviously not the location I meant they were freezing their tits off in. Yeah, yeah. But no, I know what you mean there were there were some more locations that shoots, there was things like issues with getting into the globe to do a location shoot. It was a big thing. They had burned down a whole bookshop that they then had to rebuild, I guess. Yeah, yeah, if you are going to burn your bookshops, does they say? Don't burn your bookshops before they're hatched. Yep. Don't put all your sets in one bonfire.

put all your sets in one bonfire. Right, this analogy is going to destroy us. And the workshop we're in. So we got a bit unhinged as we were talking through the series. We did, but I think that's fine. I think on the scale of stuff I've read on the internet, we weren't too bad. No, I think we were doing it okay. So let's start with stuff that we kind of got right and things that did come together in the end.

So the fly. Yeah. We spotted the fly. We thought it was an important fly. According to New Game, all flies were CGI, even Rodney the stunt fly. Good to know. No flies eaten or drilled in when angels I in the making of this series.

I but good effort from Rodney anyway. Well done Rodney. So it was relevant. It was relevant. Possibly not quite in the way I thought it was going to be. I thought it was going to be a BL's above spying on thing situation. Well, I think one of my wild tangents was that there was going to be memory in the flies. So I'm feeling pretty fucking happy about that. Yeah, you should be proud of that.

However, I didn't notice the fly until you pointed it out. So that 50, 50 and also if you'd asked me to predict which heavenly person BL's bubbles having a secret affair with, I would have gone with Michael. You reckon? Well, I mean, so uptight, I get it. Yeah. We saw Michael, like, yeah, we saw Michael going through back channels in season one. So it was not like Michael hadn't interacted with hell before. Michael's motivational about actually, this is not the tangent we need to be on right now, but Michael is power hungry. Yeah, that's it. Like, if you look at the very upstart, well, I'm looking after things for the archangel, well, the arch- I'm acting archangel.

Yeah, Michael's middle management, well, up a middle management that found themselves in charge, and then, like, a bit fucking weird with it. Yeah, there's a hint of white shrews to about it. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, that's it. Hmm. God, imagine the Michael B. Olsabob power couple vibes. Hmm.

I'm sure there's a fanfic. I'm sure there is. Oh, absolutely. Wow, that's something I haven't even looked at yet. Looking at the fanfics. I haven't, because there's just, there's a rabbit hole that I don't have time for. And as well get to you later, I read a 36 page Google.

Do it today. Sorry spoilers for the letter of the episode. And I guess Biel's Bob's existential cry. Crisis kind of paid off as well. Tell me, oh, yes, yes, say three. Yes, it's been I want to be told I'm doing a good job. I feel like that was a hint of Bielbub softening after their time with Gabriel. Yeah, because we were a bit conflicted about what that meant, weren't we?

Yeah, so I feel like they were still committed. I think you were saying that you weren't sure if they were committed or whatever to the cause anymore. So, yeah, I guess not. There we go. So institutional problems. Institutional problems. I think we were not sure what the fuck Gabriel was on about with his very quick snippet.

And turns out that the, yes, it was if it happened again, it would be seen as an institutional problem. Because they keep fucking losing and wiping the memories of high angels. Yeah, because that does seem like an institutional problem for me to be honest. Yeah, I think they don't want me to be. Yeah, they've gone straight from like the head arch angel to, yeah, we're going to put them on earth and wipe his memory after one bickering incident. I wasn't even earthy, it was just going to be a really low level cloud. Oh, reminds me, someone on our Patreon, I think it was Steve, but I can't remember if it was Stephen pointed out that Miriela is a Clark Angel, which sounds like a Clark Angel. Oh fuck, yeah, alright.

We love that. So, was Zero Falling Crowley, and what we were sort of thinking about them and that paying off, I have a couple thoughts. Please. So, right in the first episode, when we were talking about it, I pointed out that you have this little interaction where Crowley talks about the life I've carved out for myself and Zerophel says, the life we've carved out for ourselves. And I feel like that's a bit of an inciting incident.

Okay, tell me. Just in the, you know, a Zerophel's the one that's been thinking they're an arse already and they don't need to say it and then realize this Crowley might not be thinking that way and that might contribute to the poor communication that runs through the series and inevitably leads to sort of them walking out on each other. Yeah, I had some thoughts about that kind of mismatch of commitment actually. And I think it makes more sense the more I think about it because the more I think about the fact that Zerophel still had that connection to heaven in his head because Zerophel could maybe more afford

to put his eggs in that basket with Crowley because he had a couple legs in the heaven basket still. Yeah, whereas Crowley, if he put everything into this relationship was, I mean, that was everything. Yeah, he didn't maintain his independence, and once he lost his ear, if I'll, that would have been absolutely far, and as, you know, it kind of looks like it is. Yeah, I mean, he does not really, I know Beelsabob offers a return to help, but I don't think it was a sincere offer. Yeah, especially it comes along with the threat. He killed another demon. Like, I don't think he's even if after he got away with the holy water thing, I don't think he's encouraged to go back. He doesn't have any eggs in the hell basket. Yeah. And I don't think he would want to have any eggs

in the hell basket. Eggs in the hell basket. Hell in a hand basket. Yeah. I also thought it was interesting that a big part of the Job Story is Crowley's I'm a demon, I lie considering the combination of the whole series. It's Crowley's like naked honesty. Yes. Which I guess shows how far he's come from just demon. Yeah. It's... That has character growth.

I'm not sure if he ever really was just demon is the thing that, that honestly, the more I think about all of the say, the more I think back on it and come up with new head cannons and theories or whatever, the more I kind of focus on them as individuals, rather than as a couple. So like the Crowley's like fucking the trauma he must have gone through. So to go through that from that sweet, the sweet being you see right at the beginning to asking a question and being cast into hell if you think about how those first few centuries must have been. Yeah, absolutely. And that's such, such trauma. And the Xerophel never really quite seems to grasp that.

No, Xerophel's equivalent trauma is what happens with Job, and all that really happens is he has to be sad on a beach for a minute. Yeah, which, you know, kind of a slight to be sad on a beach for a minute, but he was saying right next to David Tannen, so. Yeah, and it's, I've never been traumatized by being sad on a beach. Yet. Give me time. Rose Tyler, sad on a beach. Yet. Give me time.

Rose Tyler, sad on a beach next day, but tell him right never be on a beach with David. Well, that ruins my bank holiday plans. I'm lovely little trip to this. I didn't. Oh, sorry. Oh, well, last thing on, on Corolean and Sarah fell as well. This is directly from my notes on Episode five, specifically talking about the Crowley and Jim conversation. Oh yeah.

For a 0f, the side he's on is right. They just go about things the wrong way. To Crowley, they're all as bad as each other and he wants no part in it, the whole system is flawed. A 0f refuses to see that, applying his version of nice slash good to Crowley. Mm-hmm. And I'm not saying I'm really good at seeing

where this was gonna go, where I just think the show set up incredibly well. What that problem was between a Zeraphel and Crowley before we got to upside sex. Oh, absolutely. I thought that was a looking back at my notes. The writing is now, this seems absolutely stunning to me in places. I mean, just the fact that Zeraphel was willing to shelter Gabriel like that. Yeah.

And Crowley was so fucking like, what the fuck are you doing? Right away. And it didn't occur to a 0-fail to worry about Crowley's feelings in that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny when he fell asleep, like Crowley go, well, Gabriel kind of thing. And then, but you're like, yeah, I mean fuck.

She just got a trauma. She just appeared in the toga. Yeah. I'm just running a joint to Runchler and a toga. Still terrifying to me. Hmm. How does right now? I'm not going to make you think about that. Thank you. You're trying to work out with a rap like a little bit around each leg. Yeah, no, me see. I'm trying not to picture it.

How do the horsewitch houses? Why is it very for like writing desk? How do you put a French word? I say go. Anyway, so Nina and Maggie. Yeah, them. Yeah. Obviously I said, especially in the early episodes,

it wasn't working for me. I think it proved really well done and relevant at the end though. I think so. I stick by. They did not seem as believable, but that is genuinely possibly because they would put next to the couple we most believe in. And I think because the idea of them was so much that they seem so story-like for the fun

at the end to be, hey, we're not a story. Yeah. I think that really worked for me because the audience starts buying into them as a story before it buys into them as people as well. I felt that was part of why they were written so... Yeah, and why they were put into the focus of that weird. Yeah. Red herring almost.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Especially after Nina's line in episode five of other people's love lives are more interesting than our own like the show was telling us Very much. Yes. Their love life was a red herring my love life is a red herring That's like a nice memoir That sounds like the opening to like a very wanky spank and word piece that I want to write now doesn't it? Yeah

Not related to Nina and Maggie, but something I forgot to say in the notes, that we didn't get any more car queen. No, we didn't. No, I think I was expecting to. Because we didn't get any more. Yeah. We didn't get any more crony driving until right at the end, which is when we got the sad angels thing playing instead.

Yeah, I think I would have stuck with Queen, but I understand why not, I guess. It was poignant in the moment. Right, right at the end, absolutely. But I would have liked to see which Queen songs has Erifel provoked the car into. Right, so things that we were completely off the wall about. Yeah, many. Yeah, a lot. I'm not going to list all of them.

So Nina and Maggie, secretly being Angels or demons, we considered. Yeah. I think in a particularly fevered moment, but I think. Well, we were very much in the mood that Zira fell was doing some kind of fairy glamour, and it wasn't working on them. Yeah. And therefore, no, I get that. I still, I still believe that they've showed unrealistic resistance to his angelic charms, but fine, whatever.

It was a valid theory that was completely wrong. That's very generous of us to ourselves, unless proved otherwise in season three. No, yeah, no. I think we were just hoping for a cool extra twist there, weren't we? Gabriel Lying. Yeah, I convinced myself that Gabriel could not be that fucking I'm about to walk out the window weird. Dundell, yeah, Jim, Gabriel headz emptythoughts is just fully pliable. And probably one of my favourite bits of the season.

No one got Hellfire at all Holy Worses. Yeah, that was just a random thought. I had somewhere near the end of an episode, which I thought would be quite cool if one of them looked like the end of the last season, except this time it really was as if I were getting Hellfireed or Crowley getting Holywarted. the end of the last season, except this time it really was a 0-fail getting hell fired or Crowley getting holy watered, but it didn't hurt because it turns out there so much,

not like they were something, something, something, which did not happen, and there's no more, there's no way I can spin that. Could still happen in the next season? Yeah. Crowley's whole accent going posh towards the end of episode five, again, didn't really, didn't really pay off. He does go to heaven, but he kind of literally goes back to not super posh once he's in heaven. Yeah. I think Zero fell's head being so buried in the sand about Gabriel over sea arising because he had some innate belief that Gabriel must be not right.

And I don't think that really paid off. I think a zero fell sed was in the sand because zero fell sed was in the sand. Yeah, a zero fell just super good at burying his own head. Yeah, it turns out real good at that. Lovely hair this season, though. Oh, yes, very, uh, tough, tough, as I think someone in the discord just put it. Yeah, they said it was like a little bit of feathers. in the discord just put it. Yeah, they said it was like little bits of feathers. It is, yes. I thought the, these idea of kind of fairy food rules and being tied to humanity by eating was maybe

had more weight to it after I figured out that it related to fairy food rules than it did. No, disagree. I still think it was very relevant the whole time. OK, cool. Not maybe not exactly the fairy food rules, but let's not plan Neil Gaiman isn't constantly aware of and vigilant about being tricked by the Fae Folk. Even if it wasn't deliberate, there's no way that kind of constant thinking about the

realm behind the veil does not seep into his work. Yeah, absolutely. I don't know, I think there was absolutely kind of people or other world be beings being tied to various realms by the things they consume, even if it wasn't as explicitly stated at the end. And yeah, so Chekhov's a coach once, we had a few. I refer to the Miracle blocker as, sorry, I for some reason, my head immediately started trying to scan that into the eye didn't my way.

Checkles accouferments, we had a few, but then again. The miracle blocker I think I called Checkles stamp card during that episode and it didn't come back. It didn't, no. The zombies I thought would probably come back, they didn't check them. Oh yeah, we didn't see them again at all, I agreed with the old one. The literal gun, the derringer in a hollowed out book, kept in the bookshelf. I didn't care. Yeah, check off's gun remains in the book.

And yeah, I spent ages getting really cork-forward and string about the very milder mechanism in the magician flashback and fucking nothing. I know. What I was editing it, I felt a little bad about how dismissive I'd been, but I stuck by. Now you were totally fat. I had nothing. I was thinking, because again, I'd like read some episode descriptions,

and I think I was aware that there was a magic shop in the next episode. So I was like, oh, I wonder if the magician's gonna pop up again, and he's still working in the magic shop all these years later. And as a result, it's just not clocked it because it doesn't care enough. And yeah, no. I can't remember if you mentioned it on the podcast, or whether you sent me a thing.

But the fact that the amazing Mr. Fulwood ever poster had carried on to the... Had ended up in the magic shop. To the modern day, magic shop. I don't think I said that on the podcast. Yeah, that was good. That was good. But yeah, I mean, I think I had a similar attachment

to the idea that they were focusing on the wrong things for some reason, other than just purely trying to self-divert. Yeah, I was going full. No, surely, surely not. This is fucking mental. They have clever enough not to be focusing on the fucking dance when there's a literal horde of demon, a small, smallish horde of horde at in the country, but in so outside the window. I'm going back down that path again. I can see it right. Let's go. some listener theories and things a bit later on as well. Tanya sent us a really long message and then in the discord, apologized for sending it to us, which never, never apologized for that. We love a long unhinged message. It depends on the content actually.

Well, yeah. As of yet, are this noticeable being fine? Anyway, I read the whole point out, but there are a lot of nice thoughts in it. One was Terry Pratchett specifically writes comfortable, much married couples really well, like Sam and Cible, especially in the Fifth Elephant, is a really good example. They're not demonstrative, just really solid. Yes. And there's lots of bits of that in Gidomas season two. I think the one she pointed out that I love is, is there a fan and Crowley kind of sharing the chair while they're talking to Muriel? Oh, that was fucking fantastic. I loved that scene. Yeah, especially when you throw in the whole Bible, bisexuals can't sit in chairs properly as jokes weren't Crowley's sort of half

leaning across the whole thing. Yeah, and yet he's the only person who is sitting in a chair properly, if you think about it. Who else uses a chair to that potential? True. We're always staying chairs. Having seen that, I now realise and I try and sprawl my limbs in as many directions as possible. I do not think I'm better for it. As a bisexual, I do it naturally, unless I've become a pretzel, which sometimes also happens. Sorry, I've immediately taken a self-burrow again, this is going well. No, that's fine. Ten years have been out. There's this ongoing theme, especially looking back at the book and good omensies and one as well,

of humans being messed around by the celestial beings until they're not happy about it. So you have a zero-fells ball, and how he's tweaking, how everyone's thinking, and he's doing it very blatantly, but if you look at Adam and Tadfield, it's just a much less, that's all version of it. And it's Adam who eventually says, you know, let's

all stop mucking about. Yes. And I mean, Adam's eventual rant at the end is something like that, isn't it? Yeah. And stop mucking about and let's just get on with things. You're all being silly. Stop trying to really thought about the parallel between what is her fellows doing in the bookshop and what. Yes, what Adam's doing in Tadfield and then what they're trying to do to his version of the Oh gosh, yes, it will get a bit meted, isn't it? It does a little bit. And sorts on the case as well. The way Erifel's hand kind of comes in, like he always wants to reciprocate, but he's

unable to. Oh, yeah, I'm adding an asterisk to my previous, he's furious rant, which is he's furious and he's just fucking swallowing the yearning. Yeah, absolutely. Which does make one furious having to swallow yearning, it gives you terrible heartburn. It does, I've heard that. And Tony went out that some of the desperation in those final moments comes from this complacency because they've had

6,000 years and they kind of assumed they could just keep Tilling on like that forever and suddenly they're really fucking calm and they're faced with it. Yeah, so I love that as an idea Oh also quickly Molly on Twitter pointed out the Maggie standing up to the demons felt very mad grab versus Queen of the elves Oh, it did of it, didn't it? I like Maggie a lot more thinking of her as just a little bit Magrat Flavoured. She has a bit of Magrat Flavoured. Yeah. And that was too nice, but apart from that, it's put on. I can imagine her trying to put flowers in the Nukquay working though.

Yes, definitely. And I can imagine Magrat trying to run a record shop and somehow failing in Soho. Yeah. There we go. It's just a perfect place for it. Before we start looking ahead and looking at some fun theories about what might be to come, let's do some series of wards. Series awards, series of palletives. Series whatever you want to call it.

What kind of award are we giving out? What does our golden statue look like? A mysterious orb. I like a mysterious orb. Yeah, okay, cool. So it's hovering. Yeah, a hovering orb. Perfect.

Like that. So the hovering orb awards. First award is. Hob. So the Hobbes. I'm very sorry. The first one is full. First word is... Horb. Sorry, the Horbs. I'm very sorry. The first one is for... Best line read of the series.

That's a fucking wasn't mine. You go first. I'm going with F-6 obviously, and specifically, the bit where Crowley's voice cracks during the us conversation. And he says, I would like to spend throw noise. Sorry, I just thought I'd bring the mood down. Yeah, right there. How about you? I've got two exam cheating. I didn't have time to write your short letter type thing. First of all, very short one is when Firth is refueling to pronounce the 0f,

name properly, and the 0f looks actually stern for the first time ever, and has a little moustache drawn on. Let's go. A 0f. Perfect. And that has appeared in all of the 0f, first trap tick-tock edits, which I found so funny because of the little mustache. I like guys. Take a step back. And then a more serious one is episode three, I think,

the joke one with David Tennant. But just to be able to ask the question. Yeah. Yeah. Again with the trauma. I was giving it. That was episode two. That was episode two, you're quite right. Yes. Three with resurrection. Yes. Yeah. The warp, the warp for best little face.

Are you giving yours to? Mine goes to zero fail as he does a journalism. Hat tip. Knowing head wiggle. I am following clues. Perfect. Absolutely perfect. And yours? Mine, I've already said this in an episode, but it is crowly watching the universe start up. Oh, such a gleeful little being. I thought, as I was rewatching that bit,

it occurred to me that David Tennant has very similar talent to Hugh Laurie and what he does with his face. When they're looking harmless, cheerful, whatever, they tuck that in in a way that they definitely do not when they're going edgey sexy character, where they're very jutting. And I think that's what makes quite a lot of the difference between how he just completely chained us his face between Angel Crowley and Demon Crowley. Interesting. But he doesn't do that when he stopped to hear or anything,

but just the real, that look of absolute wonder as he does that. And I think he did very innocent and very cool. And also tiny bit trivia there, one of the interviews I was watching, they were talking about, as they were doing that floaty up and down, but they were scrapped onto these gurneys

going up and down, but made it very awkward and weird. This is the true show, my Hugh Fred, the only good omen's podcast where you will hear deep analysis of David Tennant's chin and gurneys and gurneys. Okay, okay, okay, but you know what I mean? Yeah, no, with the Hugh Laurie things, specifically. Yeah, no, I am not mocking your boy at hassle, mocking both of us. You're watching Miss Bertie Worcester, and you can't believe he is quite as attractive as he is at other things. Look at him in blackouts, are you playing the Prince region? That's a better example actually, because he is sometimes a bit attractive as Bertie Worcester.

I was going to say I have fancy Bertie Worcester before. Right, favorite Easter Egg in the series. I couldn't really think of one that we hadn't already done, but as like my absolute favourite, but I found one that somebody else had felt I didn't notice. When Gabriel and BL's pub are in the pub, the resurrectionists, the TV is playing the film The Spirit of St. Louis, which is about Charles Lindbergh, solo flight across the Atlantic, in the movie he the movie, he was saved when he was woken up by a fly. Oh, that's a fucking detail. I found that in fucking radio

times article, something like that. I'll link to it. Excellent. How about you? So Snucker, Snucker coupling, a seamstress conversation wins for me because I'm a big fan of Rosie Palm and the seamstresses guild. And her five lovely daughters. And her five lovely daughters. She's a successful business woman and knows how to slow-gun a revolution. What was that fucking thing you sent me from I'm the again? Uh, the... Oh, Dotsie and Sadie.

Yes, yes, yes. Sorry, tell me. Tell me. It's totally not relevant to the to the Hobbes. Neil Gaiman has been getting around answering questions about what's going to happen in Goodamans on Tumblr by just making up absolute bollocks involving Isera fell in Crowley being married to Dottie and Sadie and they all have jobs in a variety of factories. When he's doing bollocks, he loves a factory. I'll link in the show notes to someone on

Twiss's like very handly put all these Tumblr posts into a thread. But Dottie and Sadie are the agony ants in... Yes, yes, that is. So that's a related e-streg. Excellent, ish. There's also an e-streg we kind of missed because they didn't get a good shot of it, which is that there is a painting of Terry Bradget,

like a historical looking one in the Dirty Donkey pub. Is that so? And if you look for it, you can see it in the background, very blurry. You can see that the hat that is part of the painting, he's in the hat, obviously. And if you look in the behind the scenes stuff somewhere, they've got a proper image of it. But yeah, the Douglas McKinnon kind of forgot to get a proper shot. Oops. Best outfit, Horb goes to, I think you'd better start us with that one.

It's Jim Sue and Coat in F-Six. Nice. I can't beat it. That is a coat. Gosh. I've gone a little, possibly completely the other end of the spectrum, which is crony and well-volved too. That's fair. That's about that fucking hat. I hadn't noticed, is there a fellow had a matching beige one? Oh, to do. As they were walking down the street, yeah, just those those proper trophies. Very, very cool. They are, they are good trophies. The best cameo slash small roll of

Horde. I'm going Paul K coming back to do the Pratchett voice over the speakers in hell. But also I don't know if even counts as a Camille slash small roll, but reaches Smith is fair fur. Oh yes. Everything he's doing in that. Big fur fur fur fan, so you're at the true show, Mason. How about you?

Yeah, fuck it. I thought Ty Tenon was just very funny. He touched. He did. And I worry that when I called him a nepot baby and the episode we talked about, I was calling him a nepot baby. What I meant was he plays nepot baby spectacularly. Yeah.

He is genuinely very fucking talented. Yes. And he appears in stage 33, which reminded me. Yeah, and that was fantastic. And it does. And also that reminded me that David Tenon and one of the interviews said that his favorite line in the whole series was, I'm Jemima, I made this pot. I saw someone do a tick talk about it earlier saying it doesn't matter who you are,

is zero fell cronely, heaven or hell. A zero fell made the correct face that you make when a child shows you a thing they've made? But yeah, it's high-town and fantastic, he plays a little shit so well. I'm sure he's lovely. I'm sure he is, isn't it? Very, just very funny. He's just really good at doing that. The hauled four best moment where we wanted to smash two characters heads together, Francine, what you got? I've got, before the dance and I guess just during the dance, communicate the fucking name to properly Crowley, listen to Crowley as Iroh fail. There's a fucking horde of demons on the front lawn.

My complete ranting and raving about how there must be some kind of fucking magic going on for them, not to be paying attention to the point. I stand by because why the fuck weren't you paying attention to the point? I know why, whatever, whatever, that's what I wanted back in their heads together on rewatch. How are you? That's fair. I'm also giving it to a zero feloncrolling. Well, they have a lovely little stroll through Edinburgh debating ethics, well, Elspeth is lugging a whole fucking corpse. Yeah. Like guys, if you're gonna follow the body snatcher, help the body snatcher, carry

the corpse. It's very them. It is very them. Poor Elspeth. Of course, we mown about that and then we mown when they do meddle in this. Oh yeah, there's no pleasing elsewhere. But of course we moaned about that and then we moan when they do meddle in the effects. Oh yeah, there's no pleasing elsewhere. Now, there is a middle ground between helping someone with the admittedly criminal and disgusting luggage and trying to kind of cram two people together like Barbie dolls. They haven't found it. But they haven't found it. The haul before best retrospectively heartbreaking moment. Mine's reasonably trivial so I'll go first.

It's rather easy to communicate. It's just currently talking about the breezy breakfast just before it'll get off. Just him being just so sure that that was what's going to happen. And we're just going to go for a boozy breakfast and just sinking back into the routine before he decides to break the routine and then it gets broken in a whole new way. Yeah. How about you?

Chrony and Zerifell having their glass of wine together after the magic show. Partly because that shades of gray conversation was the closest we got to them coming to the understanding that they should have fucking come to by now. And partly because Crowley, like, has already sit down with the drink before 0fL explains these switch the evidence out. So Crowley was like, expecting a whole fucking legion to come for him the next day. And thought, well, yeah, obviously I'm going to go for a drink with my angel.

What else would I do? Well, I'm waiting for a legion to come. Oh. Yep. Who's your season MVP, Francine? I don't know. Crowley. Specifically Crowley looking in through windows and smiling as zero failed us things.

I feel like that's a specific Crowley. I feel like you could also add to that Crowley looking out of the window grinning as he's trying to make the rain happen and the awning's happen. Oh yeah, I keep seeing screenshots of that because yeah, as people like point out, that's his one as a team. And he's been thinking for a few months.

And he's been thinking for a few months. Yeah, like, and then he does look like Doctor Who. Yeah, he does. I'd say. My season MVP is Bill Dada Shui. Yeah, that just being an expert, Cobbler and Midwife in that time. It's just incredible. Fantastic. And by extension, the fucking week department looking after David's tenant for the many sites. They were doing the Lord's work.

If it wasn't for the Mutton Chops, I might have picked one of those outfits. I mean, I do feel like an honorable mention to Crowley's Victorian outfit. Yeah, and as error fails, they were just incredibly fancy coats. They didn't even need those two go into fancy coats for that century. They absolutely did. Right. Should we look forward to the future? I guess.

Hopes and predictions for season two, season three. Season three. Okay now. What do you mean by Gabriel's moment? Specifically in episode three, is while Crowley's doing the honest and awning and makes the rain happen and it's though they will come a tempest and darkness and great storms and the dead will leave their grave and walk the earth and there will be great lamentations every day it's getting closer.

And that didn't get a payoff within the season so I'm assuming that's there for the next season. Yeah, so no. Because the second coming is coming. Well, that's unfortunate. Yeah. So the second coming is my previously Catholic friend is... So I got the Bible out. It's not just Jesus turning up to go like, oh, I've got some more fishes.

No, no, it is not. Okay. All right. Well, please elaborate. First, I want to clarify that the second coming is not necessarily Jesus being born again, because Jesus did not die a second time. He died on the cross. He came back and then he ascended unto heaven. I remember doing Feast of Ascension at school. You know, we have like a really specific like mental image memory thing. Yeah. Yeah, mind was, yeah, mind was reception doing Jesus ascending to heaven coloring page. Oh, cute. Catholic school guys. My big churchy one is putting the clothes into the orange for the thing. Yeah. Yeah.

That's cool. Fuck no, so we see with that. The orange thing. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so the cool. Fuck no, so we see with that. The orange thing. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so the second coming, the book of Revelation, also sometimes known as the book of Apocalypse, as told to John, it is not specified which John, who John has. Yeah. Yeah. As told to John, ham. Which is why he got the fuck.

Yeah, and that makes a lot of sense actually. Nephoy, baby. So I'm going to try and summarize the end of the world as quickly as possible. You've called the lamb and the lamb is obviously fucking Jesus. He's the lamb of God, breaks seven seals, which sends forth the horsemen and all sorts of lamentations and people dying. Basically everyone dies. This bit is very extensive. I'm trying to do this as quickly as possible. The lamb is doing a lot in

chapter 90 in Revelation chapter 19, the beast and the false prophet are cast into the fiery lake of burning brimstone. Oh, no. Do we know who the false prophet is? It's a false prophet. Just a false prophet. It's like a test for a lot of people. Cool.

Who does the casting of the beast and the false prophet into the fiery lake of burning brimstone? And I didn't have time to go and find the damn. I'll find the damn. Every day. And I'm going to quite directly. He had the name, a name written which no one knoweth, save himself. He is clothed in a cloak dipped in blood and the name whereby he is called is the word of God. So that's a bit messager on around the ears. Tell me, if I was cast into a, like, Brimstone, would I be breaking the actor's strike? Fuck, I try to once you seriously, just like in there. I love that you try to once me seriously,

that shows real commitment to our friendship. Thank you. No, because you're English, so you're not covered by Sarghaftar. Okay, but I'd be morally gray area. Yeah, yeah. But, in fact, obviously, I've just been condemned to hell. Yeah, I feel I've been cast into a like a brimstone, you've passed morally gray areas there. Yeah. Anyway, revelation shut to 20, Satan gets imprisoned in the bottomless pit for a thousand years.

And the soul is like a fucking theory's recap. Sorry. That was what you do. You want me to do? A tag bunch of otherworldly mistakes. Anyway, the red tag bunch of souls who died for Jesus, reign with him for a thousand years. This is the first resurrection. After a thousand years, Satan comes back to lead

Australia, the nations and all four corners of the earth, including Gorgon Magog. And fire comes down from heaven and devours them and the devil is cast into the lake of fire and dreamstone. I see. And then, uh, Is that a big, where I wrap it, don't throw me into that bribe hat.

Yeah, a little bit. Okay. Chapter 20, verse 11, and I beheld a great white throne at an hymn who sit at the pondit, and another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged from the things written in the book according to their works. And this is the second resurrection. Everyone who died in that big first apocalypse after the thousand years all gets more

back. And if they're good enough to go to heaven, their names are written in the book of life. And so, you know, the book of life, I'm assuming we're going to come back to that next season. I seem to say too. Goodness. And death and hell will cost them to the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire, whoever was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire. Which is a different nature of the book of life to what we had in good home and season two. True, although so far the only people and the only beings in the book of life being angels perhaps it just works differently for them. Maybe we don't know. They're in the preface.

Maybe it's a red herring? Maybe my love for life is a red herring to Anna. God. Anyway. So yeah, according to the Bible, the book of life is the names of those who shall be saved during the Second Coming. Right.

Good to know. Yeah. So just in context for that as we go towards a season that I'm assuming is going to be fakes in the second coming. Also, tiny bachelors sidebar. So the end of revelations ends with Christ promise that to John that he is going to come back. Okay. A big, honestly, it doesn't sound like we wanted it at this point,. Yeah, the Bible has a fantastic sound So I don't think they're actually gonna probably depict Jesus as doing some second coming shit in season three Yeah, that they do it has kind of already been cast they did cast Jesus in the crucifixion bit during the Season one episode three and you see the crucifixion.

I can't remember the name of the actor off the top of my head. However, just for a second, it has been confirmed that Petro Pascal has liked some good Omen's fan art on Instagram. And can we just... Wow. Can we just picture Petro Pascal as Jesus for like a fucking second?

I know he's the wrong nationality. I know he's technically already cast, and I'm probably not gonna see him, but. I'm afraid, John, that I did miss the Pedro Pascal train on account of I didn't watch any other stuff he was in. However, I'm quite amazed that this has now come back again because it was like a tsunami of Pedro Pascal's first kind of crashed over the internet and the waters receded and now we're getting just a little aftershock there. Yeah, a little and her skull thirst, kind of, crashed over the internet and the waters

receded and now we're getting just a little laughter shock there. Yeah, a little laughter shock. Well, for everyone, for my sake, mainly, I hope that's not going to happen. Oh, I hope it's not going to happen again. Wrong nationality. I'm going to say the sake of the people who, yeah, who actually care. But just for a second, I just wanted to pick that. Yeah, sure, absolutely. And the loincloth that it would inhale.

The loincloth you're rode in on. So, quickly, before we go on to a Zerophel and Crowley as well, the jokes about hell being understaffed, just a quick joke or set up, especially if we think that heaven might be in the same state and there's meant to be quite a big event coming. And you know doing big events when you're understaffed as a fucking nightmare. I'm not sure if I'm court boarding and stringing a little bit here, but I think the fact they flashbacks specifically to be else above saying, do you know how hard it is to get tens of millions of demons to put down their weapons and go home while also in like the same episode, Shack's had 60 of them following her. Yeah. Right? I feel like yeah, probably a bit of a setup. My kind of speculation about the circuit

and the coming very much overlaps with Zerafell and Corley. And then I think they're gonna bring Zerafell head-to-head with Corley in the second coming thing. I'm not sure yet if he's going to bring it to her head to head with Crowley in the second coming thing. I'm not sure yet if he's going to be fully committed and changed his mind or fully committed Crowley thinks he's fully committed, we think he's fully committed, but it turns out he's got a plan capitalized in the same way as a clue. Ah, yeah, that's my current speculation on that bit. Cool, well, we'd love that to ruminate. Yeah.

So, so is there a fellow in Crowley in the future of them? I feel like it's fair to say we all want their fight resolved and then back together eventually. I would like to very much immediately. Yes. I really want to see, as I are, I'll do the apology dance now, obviously. Yeah, I guess.

I just want more Gavotte. But we'd all like more Gavot for that. I'm making my hopes realistic. Oh, yeah, that's fair. All right, I suppose settle for that. If we could have a good body share. Well, if we could get a full apology Gavot, obviously, that would be the ideal state of affairs. How do you imagine them back together, though? Like, do you imagine them back in their existing, they are sort of celestial, an angel and a demon and they're dining at the ritz? I know some people have talked about what

if they became human. I don't like that idea. I like them going back to being angel and the demon at the ritz, possibly with some changes. But I like the idea of them just being the guardian angels of humanity. I do love that. I like the idea that they are the two that care about humanity above everything else. Yeah, and they are these like, you know, what we think of as like a mortal faith, folk type things, you know. Yeah, I do also, I don't hate the idea of them as human. I just don't like the idea of mortality as a whole, so I think that just puts me off.

Yeah, no, you are very like not pro mortality. And I respect that about you. That's what I appreciate about you. That's what you appreciate that about me. But that's, I don't know, I think they've spent so long being involved in these grand celestial affairs and also interacting with humanity and influencing humanity, whether they like it or not, that I would kind of love to see a world where they. I'll just totally free of that there to humans living out the rest of their lives in a little cottage with their wives, dosy and say, do. Working at the biscuit factory, alright, not that bit obvious. I'm working at the biscuit factory, alright, not that way, obviously. Yeah, I don't know. I can see it happening. I think I would be a little put out because of

how I would imagine how traumatic that would be. True. You think of, as you were pointing out, the kind of, that there was one of our listeners, was that this hysteria suddenly almost of the, oh, fuck, I've only got five minutes to talk to you about this 6,000 year old conversation Yeah, I'm yeah Going from being very long lived to very short lived all of a sudden. I think would be very tricky I think they just they care so much about humanity That to become a part of it. I don't think would be an unsatisfying ending for them. I don't think it would be unsatisfying. I wouldn't like it.

Yeah. I think, I think it would be odd for them to become a part of something that's shepherded for so long, you know. It would seem more to me like, like a shepherd becoming a sheep. Yeah, I can see it being done while I spoke, but yeah, I think as always, my perception on that is clouded by the fact that I want them to live forever. Yeah, that's for our respect that. So a couple of listener thoughts. We had two listeners in the discord present like

Felly specific visions for season three. Tansy's was roughly mirrors the book with a baby triggering end times and an angel and a demon trying to prevent it. Oh, oh, maybe. I don't think I'd enjoy that. I have a lot of feelings about stories echoing and kind of being retold across seasons and I think it can be done well and it can not and I think that's really why everything to talk about on this podcast Joana. Yeah because Pratchit does it really well and every time he does it he builds on it but that doesn't mean that's what I want from a TV show. Absolutely. Yeah absolutely fair. My favourite part of Tansy's theory and I really hope that something is dived into about this, this small God's-ish idea that God's been reduced by people believing in institutions rather than the deity and that's why the

Mestron's power is so outsized and I love that. It's so bureaucracy. Exactly and we saw what happened in small gods when that happened. It was Pratchett's big thing, was talking about power of belief stuff and Neil Gaiman does it so well. Neil's big thing. Well, and he's fucking American. That is American gods, isn't it? Yeah. That would not be a bad joint theory to bring into this equation. Yeah, so I would make it even more Pratch'd in. Yeah. And more gaming, gaming, gaming, gaming. Gaming. Yeah. Sorry. There are rooms with Damien at work. Oh, of course, staffing about my suffixes before I let him out. Sorry. The rooms were Damien at work. Oh, of course, starting about my south fixes before I let them out.

It's a common problem. And the last bit of Tancy's prediction slash out was, is it a feloncrowley back on the same page, very early on? Bracket's probably wishful thinking. I would love that as well. I like it very much when a series or a book defies my expectations by sorting out miscommunications immediately. I think I've said it on the podcast about how that's what I liked so much about rivers of London right from the beginning. There wasn't this whole fucking half a book of, what magic, I don't

really have magic exists. The magic happens and the main character like, oh, magic. All right, can I be a wizard? Let's go along believing my eyes over this. Yeah. One thought I have on that as well, I mean, obviously, I want it to, I want to see the bats together early, is thinking about this season as a bridge between book one and book two, as book two was kind of roughly planned out, which goes into another quick batship prediction I have, is I can imagine this is set up because book wise book two would just be like, ah, and a zero fell and probably aren't talking. So the book opens with them fixing whatever they weren't talking about.

Yes, and it's a lot easier when you have the narrator's voice, in a not even like the French or something, but when you have the other no-go listened. Yeah, you can. The omniscient third person. Shot in paragraph here and there to explain things. Exactly. And, you know, Zera fell turning up on Crowley's doorstep,

presuming he's got his flat back and saying, hey, you have fucked up, can you give me a hand? Yeah, absolutely. There's going to be some, some legs of fire. Yeah. Could we, could we shift these yucca plants a little? We're dancing to my extra little batshit theory that I kept meaning to mention this in the podcast, and I didn't, because there was some speculation

in my discord over what the book was gonna be called and I double checked Mark Burr's book, which had it, which is 668, the number of the beast. Neighbor of the beast. Neighbor of the beast, yeah, sorry. So the first two seasons are each six episodes, and it would make sense for three seasons for six episodes, six, six, six, six. But what if six, six, eight, we get an eight episode

third season? Oh, that would be nice. I hope so. Yeah. Yeah. I was about to say if it's six, six, six, that would be nice, but also not that much for coincidence, because British shows traditionally have six, but if we have six , eight, yeah, exactly. There's a fine line as well between theorizing and just wishful thinking and I think that is. I think we, we kick that line into oblivion every day, do I know? I think that line in the sand has been thoroughly stomped upon on purpose by this podcast. Jed slightly opposing prediction to Tanzi is a zero-file in the discord.

Controversy in the discord. Well, nature's controversy in the discord. A zero fell being naive, thinking he can make the second coming something positive and he's corrupted by power while thinking he's doing good. And then, probably directly opposing heaven while struggling with his feelings for a zero fell and not wanting to bring harm on him. I like both of those. I like both of those. Yes, I think that's kind of how I was thinking that if they actually come to headhead bit, would play out. Yeah, very much like a.

Your loved one is in a cult thing. But I also like the idea of a 0-file figuring it out for himself. And like I said, just showing up on Crowley's tour steps, say at the end of episode one again. I fucked up. Yeah, or maybe he does that and we don steps, say at the end of episode one again. I fucked up. Yeah, or maybe he does that, and we don't even find out to the end of episode three. Yeah.

And it turns out they both be working together, and then we get the flashback showing that. Yeah. You know, similarly to when they swatch bodies. Yeah, yeah. No game in high-risk, no. I'm sure whatever is going to happen. We would not be able to just talk in sentences at all.

I'm sorry. So do we want to talk about some batshit fan theories? Yes. I've got to stop saying batshit. I think that's unfair. But some fan theories. I don't know. I think batshit can be a compliment, to be honest.

It is batshit brackets affectionate. I've been listening to a lot of the week and be weirdo's podcast. The batshit list is a complimentary part of that podcast. So, so, um, looks are on discord provided a couple, uh, the druged coffee slash message on my entry. Yeah.

Uh, I, I don't love that because as I said in the last, I don't get me wrong. I think the message one is manipulating a zero fail, but I want the decision to have been zero fails and not be hypnotized as a refills because I think the metatron is manipulating a zero-fail, but I want the decision to have been zero-fails and not be hypnotized as zero-fails, because I think that's more emotionally satisfying. I think the coffee is very suspicious, but I think it might be a herring coffee. I think it's a lulling into a false sense

of security coffee. Yeah. See, I'm just like you. I know how to buy a coffee. Yes. Yes. You can trust me. Yeah. Agreed. It is weird, but I just think it's a

bauzi piece of writing. If this really is, zero fails, it makes perfect sense for this character for this to be happening. It's a horrible shock because we as Crowley diluted ourselves and to think it wasn't for a bit there. Yeah, but it makes it it is very much him. So I do think there's more to the conversation than we know because of the way it's edited and can't written. I think that's quite that's that till you told me, but now I went back and watched it and yeah you're quite right. There are definite uh, potentially, I would see me cuts. Yeah. Yeah. Another theory that was okay from Luxor Undiscoot, Crowley had some of his memories of being an angel of race, which is why I didn't remember Sarah

Cal and also didn't recognize Farfar. I kind of like that. I do. Because that was, yeah, I think that was because they talk about raising Gabriel's memories as a kindness. And so I wonder if maybe they tried a raising his memories a couple of times before he fell. And if we'll get some more context for that in the next season of Crowley's Fall, of you know, he asked questions and they take that away and then he asked more questions and eventually. That's a big thing actually, I would love to see in season three is Crowley's Fall. Yeah Yeah, flash sort of vaguely downwards. Yeah, but the thing is yeah, you make it light, but with the sort vaguely downwards,

by can't see it being anything but really, really, really awful. Yeah, something else that was I've seen talked about is what the Great War was referring to, and I always assumed that was war between him and hell when all the demons became demons. Like that was the Lucifer's fall and the like aftermath of it. And like to the point where I just, I assumed not like as a theory, I assumed like that's exactly what they were getting at. But I've seen other people say, like just the great more mean the first world ball because that's how that's often referred to and I think it's that. And now if we're going to talk about shit fan theories, there

is something we need to talk about. And that is the Google Doc. The Google Doc, which was introduced was very late in the game by someone in our discord. It was, Naris, thank you, Naris. Thank you, Naris for this. I had seen it floating around Twitter, but before we'd got to episode six,

so I obviously hadn't clicked through and I hadn't realised that this is a 36 page Google Doc. So the title, the magic trick you didn't see being an analysis of Good Omen season two, this doc is written by Alexander Roland. They are a fairly successful fantasy writer. They have about nine books published. They also teach writing. Also, they coined the term hope punk, which I think is pretty cool. Hope punk, which is sort of a genre name. Oh, is that like solar punk? Like optimistic fantasy books. Yeah, okay. This is 36 pages of Google Doc. This is a very long, this is what I think was being done in season two, and this is what I think it being done in season two, and this is what I think it means for season three, Google Doc.

This did not speak 36 pages long. There's a joke in it about how editing is really important. This could have done with some fucking editing. Now, like I do get, this isn't like a professional piece of writing. This isn't officially published. This is a fan having fun. Yeah. But a lot of the doc very much centers on,

I am a writer, I know how writing works. I'm very clever about that. And that's why I'm able to figure all this out. And I just think if that's the case, that you should demonstrate that you're a really good writer and edit your work a little bit, because this could have been five to six pages. This could have been an email.

This could have been an email. could have been five to six pages. It's got a bit of an email. This could have been an email. The central thesis is basically that season two feels odd, which I don't disagree with, and badly written, which I do disagree with. I don't think season two is badly written. But Neil Gaiman is a very good writer,

and he knows how stories work very well, so the bad writing must be on purpose. So I did try and go in this with a very open-mindedly, but I do disagree with that as a central thesis because I don't think it's particularly badly written, and I don't think Neil Gaiman is so clever that he would write a bad series of television so he can make a really good one. I was about to say I think that's a terrible idea. Yeah. I think Neil Gaiman knows enough about how everything works and not do that. The thesis uses the idea that a lot of set up was flatly paid off or not paid off at

all. It uses the metaphor from the prestige, this magic trick thing to throughout the whole thing. So the idea of a magic trick is that you have the pledge, the turn and the prestige. And the idea is that season two, season one was the pledge, season two is the turn and season three is going to be the prestige. And again, I don't really agree with that. It's a turn. When you make something disappear. Okay, okay. So the prestige is... I mean, you come back. It's a turnip or whatever. Yes, yeah. But you can stick with the idea of set up and pay off mostly. Now, runs through lots of, one of the ideas of set up being flatly paid off was

Maggie and Nina getting an unsatisfying ending, which again, I don't think that's right. I think that was the point of Maggie and Nina. I think they were a good story and they're ending being, hey, we're not a fucking story. I think that was that worked for me anyway. Although, obviously, they weren't working for me throughout the show, but I think that was that worked for me anyway, although obviously I they weren't working for me throughout the show, but I think that I think the pay off kind of put them in a new light. Mm-hmm. There's also another wrong example of disappearing Eccles Cakes, you know, Zerifog has the Eccles Cakes in episode one and he takes them to the shop and he puts them down and then they're not there and

then actually on there's no evidence of a plate or crumbs or anything on. And the only reference to Eccles cakes again is seeing Nina raise Eccles cakes off the board. Imagine if you worked in continuity and that mistake got you a 36-page document. Right. And it's like, but they're all too good to make continuity errors. It's like no one's too good. Have you seen that fucking show? It's full of fucking details.

Yeah. There's no way in hell that show escape without some continuity errors. No way. No, and there is a amusing section called check-offs heavy artillery warehouse. So I've listed some of the check-offs gun examples. So we have the ones that I do agree with. The zombies, the literal gun, all the book of life stuff, the Gabriel prophecy. I think you could call those check-offs guns. I don't know. I mean the gun, yeah. The gun, yeah. There's stuff like the prophecy and the book of life stuff that's just foreshadowing. Yeah, right? It's not. Yeah. I feel like, yeah, I feel like the term check-ups gun

is being used really fucking loosely, yeah. And I mean, I'm saying that knowing that we do that all the time for fun. Yeah. But I think there's a difference between it's fine. We're not professional, right? Oh, fuck, I am. Fuck off. So we do. Literally be my job for many years. Yeah, I can't say that.

Anyway, the kind of maybe- I'm not a playwright, you are. Fuck. The kind of, yeah, I never actually studied check-off that were dropped out of A Level Drama because they kept making me pretend to be a dung beetle. Fucking mess and morphesis. Anyway. I'm not playing.

Sorry, can I? Yeah, no, same. The kind of maybe's like these are check-ups guns or at least foreshadowing is the Crow Roads, the EM-n-bank story, more relevant, there is a whole sort of murderous tree plot detective thing. Oh, well, no, Tom, that by the way, I kept saying e-n-banks is friends with an ill-gamer and then found out, as I was editing episode, that e-n-banks very sadly died in 2013, and I somehow missed that. I'm sorry. Terrorist knowing these things. Friends from beyond the grave.

Friends from beyond the grave. The Mestitron coffee thing, the fact that we don't see all of that, we've talked about that. When I tried to analyse the coffee thing myself after I read the same thing, I think I think coffee is almond, is like the cyanide thing, isn't it? Yeah. That's what cyanide smells like. I don't think the coffee was doctored. No. Nor do I think as I was hypnotized. No. I agree. No, these are not things that aren't paid off that have been left dangling section. Why did we need to see all of that bullet catch stuff?

And don't get me wrong, that was not my favorite episode of the season, but it set up this relationship of trust between the two and how far they're willing to go. It's set up hell's interest in the two of them. Do you know what? I wasn't my favourite upside, but going back and watching bits of it again, now I'm not constantly focused on the fact that I'm about to watch a disaster show in my general just aversion to that kind of like, oh my god, they're going to go wrong in front of an audience. It's enjoyable. It serves the purpose all three minutes as to which is to explore the relationship between a Zerophel and Crowley compared to their relationships to Heaven and Hell. Yes. The statue apparently is a check-ups gun but that joke was paid off. Zerophel can draw. I don't think that was like setting up for anything. I just think of course

a Zerophel can draw. He draws Jim, rather than taking a photo of him and then takes that drawing to that. I think that's just a Zerophel's up fashioned. He's up fashioned and that they're both very good at stuff. Crowley wearing sunglasses in the Job scenes where he's not wearing sunglasses in some of the other scenes set like BCE, but also he's is directly in front of humans trying not to scare them. Thank you. The quote on the matchbox being so important, it was a Job quote and then we had the whole Job story

and it directly tied it, it was the quote about the Leviathan which ties into the Go Makeaway Island we'll talk. I loved the fact that Neil Gaiman replied to some criticism or question with Go Makeaway Island, we'll talk. Yep. Way to have a God complex 10 out of 10. Love that for you.

Respect. That's how it's sarcastic for now. You know, you know, I admire God complex. Oh, yeah, 100%. I'm into it. Anyway, so this in this Google doc leads to the metatron must be the bad guy and he is manipulating everything in the show.

Just as Neil is manipulating us. I don't think anyone thinks that the restaurant isn't a bad guy. This is the point where, and again, I do mean this is like constructive criticism. I don't think this is all bad ideas. I just think it's badly expressed. Yeah. Seems like, yeah, it's just, there was that such a long document.

I feel a bit bad that we're focusing on it for so long, considering the amount of unhinged fan theory and I suppose the difference is. It was all in one place. But this was the pit where it really lost me and we were about page 11 or so. Oh my God. Quick note before I do that. When you're done with this essay, reread it.

I've been doing the same trick Neil is doing except I'm not a glorious flat bastard, brackets on a rific who's gonna make make you wait a couple years for the prestige. I'll just tell you see, you know, what sort of thing to look for the second time through. If you're doing something fucking clever and you're rising, then you shouldn't need to tell me you're doing something fucking clever and you're rising. Yeah. Anyway, so the big theory is that the metatron has access to the book of life and he's using it to edit things the whole time. It's not just people, you can tweak memories and share. The clues, there's a whole thing, which yeah, that I don't hate

as an idea. I'm at Master MetaDron. I don't love it because I would hate to think that the flashbacks we've seen are not all of it and they're tweaked memories, which is what this is in line. So the MetaDron is apparently set up as a story teller. He's tweaking these flashback memories to drive a wedge between the ZeroFalent Crowley. One of the examples is that because there are multiple moments where characters decline alcohol, Metatron's disapproves and he's editing a ZeroFal's memory to make it less appealing. I don't really. I thought that was just the gradual ZeroFalber coming corruptible. There's a whole thing theory about Maggie isn't real, the Metatron made her up and Rysirine and

she's unrealistic because he's a bad writer, which is a cool idea that makes up for some of the weird writing around Maggie and Nina. I prefer my idea, but I wouldn't totally discredit it. But also, like the examples of things like she misspelled something, she doesn't drink, she has mood shifts, the whole lot in the coffee shop, it feels contrived.

Again, I feel like that's just the point they meant to look like a cute coffee shop, are you story until they turn around and say, hey, we're not a fucking story. Yeah, that's it. We are seeing it through, we are seeing it to an extent through their eyes. Yeah, and their eyes are very, look at the simple humans doing the dance. Generally, the idea of Maggie not being real behaves too much like a character rather than a fictional real person. I think that's she's written to be more of a character.

I'm going to have an existential crisis, John. Yeah. There's lots of theories about how the Mestron's manipulating things. The theory I've had to fix this in season three is this idea of restoring corrupted files from backups, the backups being a 0-fells journals. Now, I don't think there's a ton of, he found the existential crisis book. I did. It's just got a smiley face on it now and I think that's how it's going to live.

I don't think there's a ton of legs to this, but I do like the idea that a Zerophel's journals might be relevant, especially with Muriel looking after the bookshop. Yeah, definitely. Just because they're all there and it would be fun if a Muriel reads them and learns more from that. Or will we get some flashbacks through that? Yeah. I like.

And Muriel, and we get to hear like Muriel, oh, I don't know, we maybe get to see Muriel not understanding bits of it because they're very naive and yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that will be cute. I like that. But yeah, so that's the basic theory. The metatron is minute-ful-lating stuff through the book of life, but it's spread in 36 pages and the conclusion. The conclusion. And I am going to read this word for word, and this frustrated me, this red smug to me.

I know what you're wondering now. Do I have predictions for season three? Yes, and they're extremely good. However, I feel vaguely unethical about saying them out loud in public for thousands of people to read, because after writing 15,000 words of this essay and laying out my evidence and arguments logically, I am more convinced than ever that I am on to something here. While I'm okay with pointing out textual clues lying out in the open in season 2 for anyone to see, or at least what I think are clues, and showing you how they fit together and what story structure suggests about them. I hesitate about going further than that and using my pretty good magician brain to speculate about season three because

it feels like stealing the sparkle off of Neil's prestige, stealing his thunder? Well, I'm glad you're so confident. Yeah, and the thing is, like they might have absolutely 100% perfectly predicted season three, they might not have done just as they might be a very good writer, I haven't read any of their proper writing, but that red is a very arrogant way to fan theorize about it. Yeah, I'm not and to the point, it made me kind of uncomfortable. So I like the theory.

I do not like how the theory was delivered. And maybe I've been overly harsh about it, but I gave up a lot of my life to sit and read through those 36 pages. I think I've had the right to be a little bit harsh about it. If I was to come to a conclusion about using the 36 page Google Doc as one example, I do think that can sometimes be a sense of

over and totemance to a story within fandoms. And I don't just mean in the good oden omens fandom. I mean in all fandoms. There's a sense of I think it's exactly like this and I thought about it a lot so I know best. What I thought was interesting we pointed out that luckily I haven't cover cross was that there are already teenage super fans of this being told to calm the fuck down by much older super fans i.e. from 2019. Yeah and it's a weird thing because you know for us we've we've loved this book for it and I'm not claiming like we have fandom super eras. I am. What I loved when the first season came out is that lots of no one was like oh you're not a proper fan you haven't read the book you haven't read any other no game and you haven't read

any two pro cherry brushes just like how cool you're here, you're not a proper fan. You haven't read the book. You haven't read any other no books, and I feel like some of those now it feels in places, gatekeeping, and it's not. I might be very stinted-glass-ing a bit though, because if you think there was quite a lot of criticism of the Good Omen's TV series, specifically just by people, like the first series, just by people who did not want to see it done. Yeah. And I think whereas within the good Omen's enjoyers, fan camp, there wasn't much gatekeeping, I think there was definitely a lot of mainly let's be honest, rather than gaming fans who were just cross-settished, you want to go to all? Yeah, I do think there were, I think there are some fans, and again, I don't think this is just this fan, and I think this is true across all fandom. There are some fans that any adaptation that isn't literally exactly how they imagined their book put on to a screen will not be good enough for them, and they'd rather not

have one. Yeah, I think we've talked about this at various junctures with me probably being petulant about adaptations, but that's life. By the way, before I completely forget, the thing about this writer accidentally stealing the sparkle of Neil Gaiman's prestige and feeling like their magic tricks should preclude them from saying such things. I found out recently, I can't remember where I read or heard it. This might be the weave, can be weird, I spoke us, but that Mark Twain believed in telepathy so surely that he thought George Van Assure had just straight up stolen the idea from his brain.

For the story. Incredible. And on that note, so the last thing is, before we leave Gildomers for however, as we've mentioned a couple times in this podcast, season three is not guaranteed yet. It has not been given a promise of renewal by Amazon. Now season two was announced way after season one came out, so I don't think we can hope for a renewal like next week. Yeah, we can't hope for a renewal sadly because especially because this was binge-dropped and just

the bottle of things and I'm working on a piece about this that at some point will be out on my currently non-existent sub-stock. The best way to guarantee a season three, as well as tweeting about it, is just to watch the show and keep watching it, and also keep talking about it, past this initial buzz around the release. Yeah. And it sucks, I hate that as fans,

we have to feel responsible for getting a show renewed. And frankly, I don't. I'm afraid. I feel like I don't feel responsibility. I do feel like this is an unfortunate side of how the television industry works at the moment. Yeah, I think each each each fan who hears this message is such a small part of the whole that it really makes no difference.

I understand the compulsion from Neil Gaiman and from us, indeed, to say such things, but it'll happen or it won't be honest, either people will keep watching it and talking about it, or they won't. I have never felt guilty enough about anything to watch six hours of TV over it. I immediately feel guilty about everything all the time. Yeah. So, I'm just doing nothing about it. No, God no, I just adapted to the constantly-level feeling of guilt.

Anyway, Catholic. I don't want to leave good moments on guilt. Anyway, Catholic. I don't want to leave good moments on that note. That's shit. Let's talk about something nice. If you watch one thing from the bonus content there is an outtake. They kept making David do the apology dance over and over again and they made it doom do it one last time just so that my crocheting could hold up the school.

I would also like to say that although I am extremely angry with a zero fail in certain ways, obviously, I've also tried my best to, you know, come to terms with the fact that he's obviously been in this incredibly abusive, less due relationship. And I want to spare a thought for how much he must have, you know, suffered with his own weird internal rewrite if he's been in love with the demon for quite a long time now. I've never been able to admit it, whereas I think all while I was focusing more on how Crowley was um, you know, trying to keep his independence for much the same reason, I think it was probably easy for him to come to terms with the fact that he rather liked, someone he wasn't meant to because that's the point of him he's not meant to do what he does. Yeah, I like that. rather light, someone he wasn't meant to because that's the whole point of him. He's not meant to do what he does. Yeah.

I like that. Look, the thing is we could keep talking about good omen season two for a really long time. I'm flinging on by my fingernails, aren't I? But I, I think I just didn't want to end on a sour note with the, yeah. No, I'm sorry. I should have planned a better note for us to end on, but we've got some nice notes now. And I think we should pry your fingertips away from good omen season 2. For now, we can come back again if you want. Okay. And turn back towards the disc, which is after all what we want.

Oh, yay! Now we're doing going past the... There we go. Ah, we can't do that. Finally, we reach this next cool arc in Discworld. Ooh, we like this, we do. So just was coming up on the Tricia McEy for it. We need a week off and we're going to have one because we can. So our first episode on Going Postal and I haven't picked it up yet. I cannot tell you where that begins, Nens. I know exactly where it begins because I've read this book so many fucking times. I can almost recite the first scene. Okay, I know where it begins. I don't know how I'm not going to be talking about the book, but I'm not going to be talking about the book.

I'm not going to be talking about the book, but I'm not going to be talking about the book, but I'm not going to be talking about the book. I'm not going to be talking about the book, but I'm not going to be talking about the book, but I'm not going to be talking about the book. I'm not going to be talking about the book, but I'm not going to be talking about the book, but I'm not going to be talking about the book Thud. November, we will be bringing you a full three episodes on the Thud's Minoff book, where's my cow? No, we're not doing that. Yeah. We're rewritten it. You know, I'm big pentameter.

November is still to be announced. We're planning some fun bonus stuff for you because then in December, we really want to end the year on winter Smith. Yes, and the spreadsheet needed for negling. As it always does, heads up with going postal, I know we normally talk about an adaptation when we're talking about the book, but we have decided we're going to wait and talk about going postal to Christmas because that would be a nice treat. Yes, nice. We usually do some kind of screen adaptation at Christmas and

yeah, it'll be a nice one. I could not finnig all the spreadsheet enough to make us land on going postal to Christmas, not at all. Not at all. Not at us land on going post a Christmas nutty try. Yeah, no, no, try it. I like when it's made to Christmas anyway, even though it's not a Christmas book, it's got snow in it. Say whatever. It's a solstice book. Yeah. So until we come back to your lovely years in September and go back to the disc world.

Your lovely years, listeners. Dear listeners, your dear listeners. We value each one. You can follow us on Instagram at the Trisha Maki-Frat on Twitter at Maki-FratPod, same on Blue Sky, Facebook at the Trisha Maki-Frat, join our subreddit community, our slash TTSMIF, join our Discord, there's an invite link at the top of our show notes, link section, email us your thoughts, queries, castles and snacks, the Trisha Maki-y fretboard at gmail.com. Support us nonsense financially, go to patreon.com for us, that's the true show makey fret, where you can exchange your hard-earned pennies for all sorts of bonus box. Wow, you went full terms and conditions of why. I was trying to get us out of the And until next time, dear listener. To the world.

To the world. Sorry I made you say, Horb. I'm killing, I love it.