The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - 152: Raising Steam Pt 2 (It’s So Hygienic!)

Episode Date: October 20, 2024

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan and Francine Carrel, read and recap every book from Sir Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series in chronological order. This week, Part 2 of our recap of “Raising Steam”. Peril! Punch-ups! Puns!Find us on the internet:Twitter: @MakeYeFretPodInstagram: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretFacebook: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: [e-mail]: www.patreon.com/thetruthshallmakeyefretDiscord: https://discord.gg/29wMyuDHGP Want to follow your hosts and their internet doings? Follow Joanna on twitter @joannahagan and follow Francine @francibambi Things we blathered on about:Raising Steam: the Marquis de Aix-en-Pains? - /r/Discworld Aeolipile | Steam Turbine, Invention & Usage - Britannica No Such Thing As A Teaspoon Of Coal - (No Such Thing as a Fish) BBC Sounds Cockney Rovers - Maybe it's Because I'm a Londoner sing along - YouTubeSwindon: the heritage of a railway town - Google Arts & Culture Brief Encounter (1945) - IMDb Change of Gauge (Entry 206.LV2733) - Omnibus List of rail accidents (before 1880) - Wikipedia Caution! Railway safety since 1913 - Railway Museum175 years making Britain’s railways safer - Office of Rail and RoadThe railway traveller's handy book of hints, suggestions, and advice - WikiMedia Commons   ---Music: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.com  

How's Riverdale treating your mental health? Oh god. I tried Blue Sky again today due to the general exodus. I'm not that fussed about the block thing because I'm not currently being stalked as far as I know. But I thought I'd just hop across anyway as everyone else was doing it. You know what they say, if everyone else is jumping off a cliff you should as well. That's right, yeah.

That one Disney documentary that told lies about lemmings taught us lies about lemmings. But yes, so that's fine. I think except that I don't know if it's to do with the huge exodus, like the, just the volume of everybody fucking up the algorithm or what, but my discover tab is full of fucking anime not safe for work stuff. Incredible. And just normal anime OCs, both of which I'm not at all interested in genuinely, you know, not so yuck anyone's young, but-

But it's not really your cup of tea. So far from my sphere of interest. It's unbelievable. I keep pressing not interested, not interested, not interested, and it keeps going. So my current solution is just to try and track down people I used to follow and follow them and see if that helps a bit. Yeah, I might try Blue Sky again. I forget that we have it for the podcast as well and keep forgetting to post on it. Yeah, I've got that on Reddit too.

Sorry everybody, if you go on the Blue Sky or the Reddit, we'll try maybe. We will. But yeah, it's just cultivating an algorithm again. I haven't people on Twitter keep posting screenshots from Blue Sky like, oh my god, it's people are talking like this. It's too much like 2010 Tumblr and this isn't for me. And it's just like, well, I think maybe just let people enjoy things doing whatever they're doing. I feel that way about a lot of things at the moment. I have a lot of sort of simultaneously more and

less tolerance. Yeah, I agree. And Twitter is currently full of fucking Nazis. So yeah, I feel like 2010 Tumblr speak is better than that. Yeah, yeah. And again, the block thing does fill me with a lot of rage because I have people blocked who I don't want to be able to see me on social media. Yeah, exactly. Not just not interact with me. Also, Twitter is now going to end up being banned in a bunch more countries because if the block function doesn't work properly, then it doesn't quantify for a lot of hate, internet hate laws. Yeah.

Quantify, qualify. I suppose the thing is, it's always been extremely easy to get around Twitter blocks if the person doesn't have a private profile. And so it doesn't bother me that much because it's by having public profiles, I know that anyone who wants to see my stuff can act accordingly. But it's, you know, it's just really leaning into it, isn't it? It's leaning into the being an asshole. Oh my gosh, Elon Musk, leaning into being an asshole. But, you know, as I say, I like to join in with the crowd.

It's irritating. Like I said, in my case, I obviously I'm not posting, you know, my fucking home address on Twitter or shit like that. But I have reasons for blocking people wanting to not see it. But I can't make my account private because I want people to find out about my writing and such. The lovely dichotomy of existence in the public. I want people to find out about the good writing that's out and released into the world. I don't want them to find out about the awful dreck that is my early drafts I'm currently suffering through at the moment. Niamh Now just as well we don't talk about it at length on the soft open to these podcast episodes.

Sarah Yeah, anyway, so Riverdale. That is definitely a television show I watched this week. Niamh I've finally been watching Bridgerton series three. Sarah Ooh, you got there? Niamh Yeah, I got there. Well, I think I watched the first episode and then I was like, oh, Colin is annoying. And then I've now gotten over that year later or however long it is. And it's fine. It's been long enough that I feel I can say things like, but I quite like the vegetarian man without it being a spoiler. So I quite like the vegetarian man. Colin is annoying but I was not watching that season

for Colin, I was watching it entirely for Nicola Coughlin and the weird sexual tension between Eloise and the tall skinny bird. Who, by the way, has dresses that are frankly seats of engineering more than costuming. Oh yeah and the headpieces as well. Incredible stuff. Could not give a fuck about the lack of historical accuracy. The Queen's wigs that seem to look like geodes. Yeah. Incredible stuff.

You haven't finished this season yet, have you? No, I've just finished episode four or something like that. You haven't got to my favorite of the Queen's wigs yet then. What's the best episode Queen wig? I'm not going to spoil it for you. I know you don't care about spoilers at all, but I'm not going to spoil it for you. Okay, when I think I get, when I think I'm there, I'll stop it and take a picture and see if I'm right. Yeah. Okay. I've now got like, I'm gonna say I'm gonna double check to make sure I know

that the really the really cool wig is where I'm thinking of it. But like, I'm not gonna do that because I'll end up rewatching all of Bridgeton. Nothing is stuck out enough for me to have sent you a picture yet. So I'm guessing it's still to come. Yeah. But yeah, they're dresses. They're not just shoulder pads, they are shoulder architectures. Shoulder architectures, yeah. I feel like there's some cage work happening that I don't even want to think about the construction. No, I think it's best if we don't, it's magic. As long as we all believe in Cressida's shoulders. Yes, clap if you believe. What is this starting fading away into nothing? You know what, there's just not enough room in my day to day life for architectural dressing and I think I need

more balls. Stick with them at least. Of the dancing variety. Oh no, there's too many meanings. Not the spherical or the testicular. No, I like clothes with shapes now. I do like shapey clothes. Love a shapey clothes. We've talked about that recently, haven't we? I think we've now grown into the idea that

clothes instead of being flattering should be in shapes we enjoy. Yes. I really wish I had time to learn more about sewing and dress construction so I could start making like amazing dresses entirely out of structured hexagons and the like. I see my really bad pin cushion that I hand sewed. Oh, that's fantastic. It's wonderful. That's me trying out some embroidery stitches on the seams just to see what

happened. I finally got the on the halfway through the third attempt, I finally got the hang of a twisted chain stitch. I see the moment I realized what I was doing wrong. I have some knitted stuff like that, especially from when I first started loaning where you can like suddenly see the moment I understand what the fuck I'm doing. Because I'm not someone who will go back and undo a project and redo it. Like I will soldier bravely on with it covered in fuck ups. It's why I like writing and you know, to a slightly lesser extent and that field like painting and things because you can edit. Yeah, you can't edit. I mean, more talented people can edit their knitting, there's frogging back and

tinking and all sorts of laddering down and things. But I just like to say fuck that. Frogging back and tinking sounds like to stop on the railway line to stole that. There are a lot of knitting terms that double as probably weird English place names. There are a lot of weird English place names that could probably convince people with some kind of knitting term. Snetterton, Snetterton is definitely a type of jumper. Oh, yeah. Oh, well, you know, the snetterton construction for doing the shoulders on a jumper.

Exactly. So there you go. Marvelous. Again, I've got no way to get us from A to B, but do you want to make a podcast? Yeah. Are we going to think about? Do you want to take a train to the podcast? No, terrible. Shall we? No. Shall we knit a podcast? Sarah- should we rejoice in the fact that we that we work in a medium that we can edit and record a

podcast? Merle Perfect. Yeah, let's make a podcast. Sarah- Alright, let's make a podcast. Of course, the irony being I will not edit that because otherwise it won't make any fucking sense. make any fucking sense. Hello and welcome to the True Showmate Key For At A podcast in which we are reading and recapping every book from Terry Pranchett's Discworld series. One is Simon, Cronulage Ska-Lord, or I'm Joanna Hagan. And I'm Francine Carroll.

And this is part two of our discussion of Raising Steam. The thrilling middle bit. The rising action of the Raising Steam. Not on spoilers before we crack on. We are a spoiler-like podcast, obviously heavy spoilers for the book Raising Steam, but we will avoid any and all mention of the Shepard's Crown until we get there so you dear listener can come on the journey with us. Avoiding waterlogged collapsing and zombie infested parts of the land. Perfect. Ideally. What have we got to follow up on Francine? Well, we asked a couple of questions on our last episode, one of them being, what is Moist's job title? We came up with, well, you came up with Newfangler, I believe,

which is very good. And then we realized later, Rhymes with Albert's Bangler. We blame this whole thing wide open. Wide open. Sander Vogel adds, Moist is ironically the ideas taster of Ankh-Mkor Pork, which is also a very good job title for him. Then we asked for nice stories about the steam trains. Well, I don't know if we did in the episode, I did on the Patreon post and then I think somebody

asked again in the Discord. But we got lots and lots of lovely stories and pictures of steam trains and we enjoy that. And I didn't realize that there is not far from where we are, the mid-Suffolk, like, Railway, so I'm going to go and have a look at that at some point. Oh, I didn't know we had one either. That's nice. Yeah. Yeah. And then Dennis in the Discord said that he is always happy to hear Richard Trevithick mentioned as a cornersman.

Trevithick's steam engine ride is immortalized in the song Camborn Hill and is the reason a disproportionate amount of train stations are on a Camborn Road. Lovely. Pretty good. Yeah, just lots of fun train discussion in the chat. Love a train. Trains just bring people joy, don't they? They do. Amazing. Occasionally explosions. Should we talk about raising steam then?

Yes, let's do that. Francine, do you want to tell us what happened previously on raising steam? Previously on raising steam. Choo-choo, it's railway time. Sorry. I should have started with the Thomas the Tank Engine intro, shouldn't I? I don't know how I did. The son of an engineer turned fine pink mist learns mathematics in heads to Ankhmore Pork with a pocket full of dreams, a slide rule and a stonking great steam engine.

Veteran is warily intrigued and puts his best not quite crook on the case while Harry King seizes the chance to edit his legacy. Iron Gerda quickly wins the city's grimy heart, and it looks like full steam ahead for the disc's newest When Thing Happens. Fantastic. What happened this time? This section, part two, which starts where the last one ended and goes up to, and that Mois knew was that as far as that conversation was concerned on page 319 in the Corgi paperback. In this section, all Johnson makes a proposal and we see potential. Simnel's glum about recognition and asks about a girl. More importantly,

it's finally time to grandly open the Ankhmore-Pork & Stow Plains hygienic railway. It's so hygienic! It's so hygienic! Queen Kelly drives in the Golden Spike before Dick and his girder emerge, gleaming. Sorry. Queen Kelly drives in the Golden Spike before Dick and his girder emerge, gleaming, ref- sorry. Refreshments are served, the press are spoken to straight, the scenery rushes, there's a banquet in Ankh-Morpork, and now it's time to lay rails to Quirm. Mois travels, speaks to landowners, while the wizards finally visit the railway and go for a ride. On a sunny day, Mois daringly saves children on the rail tracks. He's a hero again with runaway ideas. Moist continues Quirmeon negotiations and Amarqui recommends the bandit-filled Scrublands

while Ardent spreads dissent in Ankh-Morpork dwarf bars. Moist, Harry and a few choice pals head out and clear the Scrublands. Later, Moist returns with Of the Twilight the Darkness in tow to meet the Lobster Goblins while dwarfs spy in the shadows. Of the Twilight the Darkness convinces the Quirmean cohort to come to Angmore Pork, but there's more dwarfs around and something wrong at the railhead. After a nice cup of tea, Moist rallies in time to find the deceased railway workers and deals rather permanently with the dwarfs. Moist heads back

to the city and chats to the watch, earning an unofficial handshake from Vimes before being filled in on the political situation by Vettinari. In the dark, a dwarf tries to sabotage Iangirda, but Colin and Nobby arrive on the scene to find that only a cloud of pink steam remains. Meanwhile, in Effing Forest, two would-be engineers experiment with steam power with disastrous results. Moist and Simnel handle the press, and the railway steams on. Committees arise, business booms, apprentices are taken on, goblins learn, and ragtag rails fall into place. The main line to Quirm is celebrated, while Feeney hears clanking in the Shires, trains travel everywhere, the railway grows, Mrs Georgina Bradshaw keeps a diary of her travels,

and Emily King says good morning to Gerda. The minds appear to be calming down, and Rhys heads for a summit in Quirm. Vettinari wants the train to Uberworld ready any day now, and Mois tells Harry about a possible plan. Then a quiet coup takes place in Schmaltzburg when Ardent returns, but Albrickson stays loyal to the scone. Lady Margalotta spreads the news and Mois meets Vettinari in the early hours. Reese needs a and loincloth watch. Much more sensible. Did you spot any? Yes, for helicopter, the anvil in the tree.

Oh, yeah. Is it meant to be there? Traditionally, anvils are found on the ground. Good to know. And for loincloth, the hokator, Kwermian goblins. Yes. Do it just a and Goblins. Yes. Do it just a little bit better. Absolutely.

With a little bit of snail at Port Piquancy. And also Death is here. Yay. And also Death is here. Hurrah. Yay, Death. Couldn't have happened to a nice dwarf. Favorite quotes.

Do you want to go first? The low king's bellow of rage and betrayal when the news of the massacre at the railhead arrived echoed around the state quarters and into every corner of the great cabin. Bats dropped out of the ceiling, in the bakeries the dough refused to rise and the silver on the decorative weaponry tarnished." Fantastic. Love a bit of rage that has physical effects on the world around it in a story. Yes, anything that tarnishes silver. the world around it in a story.

Yes, anything that tarnishes silver. Yeah, see also witches who have a sudden moment of overstimulation and shatter all the windows. Yes, that sort of thing. We like that sort of thing. Takes a while to clean up afterwards. Mine is a short one, but I like this moment. And afterwards, there were fresh strawberries and a soft bed with fluffy pillows. And somehow it made all the running around worthwhile. There's not many moments of calm and peacefulness in this section. I thought we'd enjoy them while we can get them and the fresh strawberries. Fresh strawberries and fluffy pillows.

After lobster and watercress, I mean, what an evening. Characters then, should we start with Moist? Yeah, probably that, I hadn't we? And he is there at the beginning. He is having an ideas time, isn't he? Speaking of ideas tasting. He's having a ideas time, isn't he? Speaking of ideas tasting. He's having a very up and down time in this section. Yes, and under a train at one point.

Yes, as under as you can get. Not to mention the constant sort of slightly going up and down while on the horse. Yes, yeah. Now down to talk to his knees, of course. Yes, yes, who were listening intently to what they have to say, which is polite, I think. It is polite. If you didn't want to log on at your knees, you can't expect to make friends with them. No, you've got to listen to your knees. I do think that if this book teaches us anything, it's to maybe think twice before accepting a strange goblin concoction. Oh, because I was thinking it worked out pretty well for him both times.

Oh, yeah. No, I mean, don't get me wrong, I could do with some of that stuff right now. I'm going to take my jumping off a cliff with everyone else energy. I said think twice, I didn't say don't do it. Just think about it. It's easy for us to say that now, but Moist is very tired. Moist and his ideas, Al Johnson, who turns up, makes his food pitch and Moist is like, oh yeah, food on trains, waiting rooms, places where people want to spend money. And he remembers the railway was not about the rails or the steam and he starts thinking about the hotels. Yeah, he even manages to pivot from the safety monologue to the, and while we're at it, how about different classes on trains?

Yes. It's fantastic. And when Adora's talking about watching him from the Klax towers and then says, you know when you found something amazingly interesting and useful, your eyes light up like a hog swatch decoration. She's used to seeing the ideas starting to speak. I thought it was interesting that when he went to save the little kiddiwinks, heroics for him are now very much reflexive, not considered. So if you're when he went in to save that cat from the fire, it was thinking I need to save the cat I need to be seen coming out. I noticed the exact same thing. And I think he would have always done it anyway, even if there wasn't for an audience. But I did

yeah, that little layer of, I need to justify my good deeds seems to be, but he's still very self critical, isn't it? Because later in the section, he was saying how he didn't necessarily like that he sees all the angles and everything. Yeah, when he's thinking about Harry giving the pension to the women who's lost her sons and sort of like, and Harry doesn't want any fuss about that. He is not doing that for good publicity. It just also happens to be really good publicity. And maybe it's not great that I can see that. It's like a question of is the motivation behind the deed more important than the deed itself or not because Moise seems to think his good deeds aren't good enough because

he's not motivated in the right way. He's motivated as much by positive press as he is by the good deed itself, but he's still doing the good deeds. I think the impact of the good deed upon the world is just as good, but the impact of the good deed upon one's conscience and kind of in life may be not as good. Sorry, what were you going to ask me? Oh, nothing pleasant. What do you think about the murderous rampage? Oh, with the dwarves. Yeah, I felt a little bit weird about that because it's not, you know, this is the same Moist who said, I've never killed anyone to Mr.

Pump, although he had by degree percentages. And this is obviously is a practice technique of doing it off screen and bringing this in at the beginning and the end of it. But yeah, he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who could kill a bunch of dwarves. And then get over it very quickly. Yeah, there's no soul searching or really deep thought about that. And it's not, it's not like he walked in on the murder and kind of did it as part of self defense as Vimes did with the deep downers. Yeah, I was gonna say, I feel like there's some comparison there to Vimes and Thud with the deep

downers, but that's not what was happening here. But then he had come across these, the murdered railway workers. Yeah. here. But then he had come across these, the murdered railway workers. There was this justification to it of, well, these guys were just doing their jobs in their, you know, there was meant to be almost a place of safety for them and the stew still bubbling in the pot, I thought was really, like that scene where he comes across the bodies, his heart is dark. There it is, yeah. And there is justification to it. But it doesn't seem like justification you'd usually see in a desk world book, or not usually not not used like that. So Vimes is kind of second

massive fight with dwarves was at the end of third, where he's like properly taken over by the summoning dark and goes, you know, mental with a whatever he had axe or something. And it's very much portrayed as a good thing that he was stopped. Yeah. I guess this is a bit different because yeah, the scene he walked in on was very, very graphic and just there. But no, it doesn't seem very moistened look big. It almost seems like a Vimes scene repurposed, but it doesn't even quite seem Vimesy. It seemed more Vimesy. And obviously you have Vimesy's reaction afterwards, which is to privately say, you know, you did what I almost you did what I would have done. Which is probably true, but not necessarily a good thing. Yeah, I think it was the other scene it reminded me of again from Thud was Vimes when the dwarfs attack him in the home and running up the stairs screaming, I'll kill you. Yeah.

And Willikin's taking out, you know, surgically killing the dwarfs. Yes. I think that's I didn't have any. I think we talked about you had possibly more of an odd feeling about that than I did at the time. Yeah. I think, yeah, this one was a bit like, okay. I think it's because Pranchett is very good at writing even when it's, you

know, a bad guy, for example, death coming for the dwarf who gets exploded in a crowd of pink seam when he tries to kill her and girdle later on. Perhaps it's normally very good about writing good death scenes and so for these dwarfs to be like red shirts that die off screen with very little thought about it afterwards, it feels a little bit jarring. Yeah, I think interestingly enough I don't feel that way about the goblins murdering people. No, because it's also the goblins... Have been very oppressed.

I've been very oppressed. I mean, literally the bandits have been eating them. Yeah. Yes. Yes, that's true in this case, especially. Yes, I was thinking back to the Klaxthau one, but obviously they were in the middle of trying to murder the goblins by burning down the Klax Tower. So yeah.

Anyway, yeah, that's not really a conversation that has a conclusion, but worth noting. Moving on to a brighter, happier moment, but going back to that conversation with Harry King after he saved the children that starts them having a go and then he starts having the ideas and stuff. Harry's response to it, a little while ago, you're under a whale-wearing with 50 tonnes of rolling stock going past your ears and now you spring up like a jack in the box full of vim and Vigour and skeins. What if it's it you've got and how can I get some of it? That was so in character for Moist to go straight from him. These kids nearly died to... Also, we can make more money by... This is the same Mois von Litvig that stands there in the burning

embers of the post office and dances with the Dora. Yeah, he is filled up by some slightly otherworldly motivation. Yeah. Locomotivation. Amazing. Obviously, the one thing we didn't say is in that scene where he kills the dwarves, he is under the the fluence of the goblin potion at the time as well. So he's not entirely just moist. He's, I'd say an equivalent to maybe the summoning dark having control of vines. It is a Berserker type scene, isn't it?

Yeah. Oh, another nice work, Moist Vines was filling up with the world of locomotive possibilities at the speed of a hamster really at odds with its treadmill. That was such a great. Dick Simnel. He's having a pretty good time with this section. The same way he's really frustrated both with the cunning artificers and with the philosophers. Mr. Pony telling him he should go and get himself apprenticed. There's no one to learn from because he's created this. But he's also used for stuff because he's learned all of this stuff from reading like the works of these Athenian philosophers.

He's you know, they could have built a proper steam engine and steamboats that didn't explode. And that's academics, all that knowing and they went back to discussing to beauty and truth of numbers. truth of numbers. It's interesting though, because I mean, I think we've probably talked about it in one of the ones that talked about the Phoebian philosophers. But of course, the ancient Greeks did come up with a steam engine used as a little toy and then it was all forgotten. And you can only imagine Pratchett felt some kind of way about going, what the fuck, what could the world be like if they carried on with steam power in ancient Greece? Yeah. Yeah, it's an incredible thought. They said they fucked him out with big wooden horses.

I think that was a bit before. Yeah. Oh no, I can never remember which bit of ancient Greece goes where, to be honest. Most of it's in Greece, Francie. Why would you say that? Like Dick Simnel with his greasy rag. Oh, nice. Very good. But like after, you know, Simnel's had this massive run and Moist stood with his mouth

metaphorically open and listened to the meticulous Mr. Simnel blaming himself for being a genius. It does make me wonder actually how, because we talked about guilds and apprentices and mastery and things before. Yeah. How it does work like on Round World or how it did work when a completely new craft appeared. Well, Simnel talked about, you know, he's starting the Railway Academy. He's going to make sure the people that want to learn don't go and experiment if they're not ready to

and instead come and learn from him and do it properly. So this is effectively the forming of a new guild. I assume it would become a guild before long. Yeah, a guild of steam or guild of locomotion, I wonder. Locomotion. Not specific, yeah. Or guild of engineers. We don't have one of those yet. Well, I think that's what the cunning artificers speak of. Oh, that's the old one. I'm just happy that I'm going to say artificer correctly more than once in a row.

That does not normally happen. That's a lovely word to say, isn't it than once in a row. That doesn't normally happen. It's a lovely word to say, isn't it? Artifice. When it comes out right, yeah. And yet, after all of this and everything that's in what's created, still not being sure if he's good enough to ask Emily out. You would ask someone else's thoughts on it if it were a niece of Harry King.

Oh yeah, you would. Yeah. Isn't Emily lovely? Emily, I think one of my favourite scenes in this whole book and the one that stuck with me after reading it for the first time is for some reason the scene of Emily with Ion Gerda. Yes, I agree. It's absolutely gorgeous. And I think there's something about the creeping tension in the background because going on to Ion Gerda as well, there's all these little hints of sentience.

Yeah, and a tiny bit of spite here and there. I'm always kind of wondering how much of a problem this could be. The half whistle and half giggle. And again, Moise puts a spin on it, you know, after the would-be sepulcher is murdered, he's like, I don't know if your train is becoming sentient slash a god, but just in case, maybe shine her up and put her out there and let her be worshipped a bit. Yeah, yeah, let's get some belief in. Just to be on the safe side.

Smack side. You wouldn't believe how much belief this thing can hold. But then the idea of Emily just overcoming, it's like the opposite of the beautiful prose and then the thud, it's like the sick kind of beautiful prose and then the third, it's like the sick kind of tension just for a second there, then Emily kind of wafting in on a white dress and a prayer and polishing it up and all daisies. Yeah, and telling Iyengar how lovely she is. Yes.

And how it's not necessarily about whether the belief is powering, is making this dimension sentient or not, but her and Simnel have obviously got to that point in her relationship where she has sort of fallen for Irongerda a little bit as well. And because a lot of the courtship happens off screen as well, off page. She's definitely a horse girl. Oh, definitely a horse girl. Probably a horse girl maybe who hasn't had much time in stables and now has an iron horse instead. Niamh Yes. Yeah, she doesn't necessarily have horses, but she's a horse girl at heart.

Emma It's something you have like faith. Niamh Yeah. Emma I have neither. Niamh The same. I don't know, I like horses, but I've never been a horse girl. Emma There's a difference. Yeah. Niamh But yes, I like Emily as a character, especially because she's Harry King's niece. And his daughters have obviously done well for themselves and got married. And I get the idea that this sort of this idea of he's not been in charge of her being

raised and stuff, but he's made sure she's been raised right. And Effie's probably had a hand in making sure she's also well spoken and possibly dresses a certain way. Yeah. Very cute. I imagine within a couple of generations, they'll all be going to Quern College for ladies. Yeah, Harry King then. I love him in this section. How old do you think Harry King is? Do we know? I know he's probably on the late end of middle age. Yeah, I would put him a similar age to Vimes maybe. He's obviously old enough to have grown up married children, so I would put him in maybe his fifties. Yeah, yeah. That's about the right age for your wife to start saying at your age, you're not going out and having a gang

warfare. Yeah. So like fifties or sixties, I'd say. But yes, this sort of heart of gold bit that this section of the book really goes into, I really love it. Crying with how close the kids came to getting hurt. Moist going in and shouting at him and thinking, oh God, I've pissed him off. You're not meant to piss off Harry King. Then he genuinely cries and says, tell me exactly what I should do, please. I think he's definitely softened a little as he's gotten older. Obviously, he probably always had a decent heart in him. But once you've

spent a couple decades no longer literally fighting on the streets for things, you have time to develop your emotional side. Even if you've still got the Harry King rings. It is a fair remiss if I didn't point out, not the worst pun slash groan-worthy wordplay in this section, but Harry King has his incandescent volcanic rage after hearing about the murdered railway workers. Oh. Moys tried to calm him, but that was like trying to put a cap on a geyser and he couldn't do that, especially not to a geezer like Harry King. See, I pronounce geyser as geezer.

Well, yeah, but I wanted to differentiate because this is an audio medium and people might not be looking at this written down. I see. I see. I see. So I hope that like that old phrase, you can't put a cap on a cockney geezer. Yes. As Dick Simdall would say after trying to persuade Harry King to wear a flat cap. Well, he'd say you can't put cap on cockney geezer. I'm not trying to use your accent. on Cockney Geesner. I'm not trying a Yorkshire accent. I think I had a lovely time reading the the poor exploding fellas. Because I very much imagine them as in a Plymouth accent. That's one of the ones I could do. So I actually read some of that aloud

to myself quite happily. After several hours of failing useless about Yorkshire. I mean, the only way I can do a Yorkshire accent is to try and do a bit of a Sean Bean impression. And that only works if I'm directly quoting Game of Thrones. Beautiful. Bastard. Sorry, where were we? Harry King? Harry King. Him and his violent mates.

Him and his violent mates. And they're all quite, they're all a bit excited about their little outing and the terrifying friends whose footsteps don't make any noise. And Moist realizing that he's maybe slightly out of his league in that situation and best to stay quiet and let them take care of things. It's really hard to argue for Moist being the best in street violence, whether or not he briefly became a berserker. the best in street violence, whether or not he briefly became a berserker. Also, the toy railroad thing has sprung up the model trains and Harry is quietly delighted that they've made a toy of him that Effie thinks might be too fat, which I thought was

probably implying a reference to the fat controller. Got to be. And that delighted me. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, the whole model railway thing is quite lovely, isn't it? Yeah. There's at least one No Such Thing as a Bishop's though that talks about model railways that I'll try and find and link.

Moving from Harry King to Adora. Throwing in a little bit I like as well. She gets defensive about, despite the fact Moist hasn't vocally complained, she gets defensive about their sort of rooftop goblins. And while she's saying to Moist like, stopally complained, she gets defensive about their rooftop goblins. While she's saying to Moist, like, stop complaining, don't complain about them, they're fine, they're helpful, blah, blah, blah, she says, don't give me all that again about being traumatised by seeing the picture of a grinning goblin in that children's book when you were little. The ubiquitous terrifying goblin from the book. Yeah. Well, yeah, there's thoughts about that when we get to the Twilight the Darkness, actually. But one more thing about Dora. Mois recognized her code flashing through the

clocks. Yeah, and apparently Morse code, like if you talk to somebody or listen into Morse code from one particular person long enough, you do pick up their kind of accent on it. Oh, it's really interesting. Yeah, I don't know, like, just like, I don't know, just the very slight different imposes between the Saudi out there or violence with Richie at the keys, I don't know. But yeah, I've seen a lot of people talk about how people speaking sign language very fluently often have like, you know, accents come across in it. And I don't know enough about sign language, but it really interests me. I'd love to properly learn BSL at some point. Yeah. You can monitor that for ages, haven't you? Yeah, but there's time and money and space. But yeah, she's been watching Moes from the

Clactowers. There's a lovely... What if I'd been messing about with other women? I know you weren't and if you would, I would have had you killed. No offence. Yes, I love it. It's no offence, not only kidding. But of course he wouldn't. This is probably one of my favourite things that Pratchett does is just that every married man he writes is a wife guy. He cannot write because he was such a wife guy that he does not know how to write men any other way. So Moist is a proper wife guy for Adora. Harry King and Effie have that as well. Fimes. Fimes, obviously. Carrot and Angra.

Carrot and Angra, yeah. Just wife guys all over the shop. Love it. Delights me. It's beautiful. And Vesanari. Vesanari, hmm. Winking with the speed of a cyclone. Yeah. Great line. And unfortunately now suffering under a new crossword compiler. Yes.

He's the one with Modern Railway, isn't he? Allowing it to plunge off the cliff or whatever he was doing. But yes, his queerness about the speed of this evolved project is coming apart a little bit as geopolitical events catch up with us. It is a nice foreshadowing load. Like from the moment this railway thing seems like it's happening, he starts pushing for the line to Uberworld. And obviously the book makes you think it's just, he doesn't like the coach journey.

Yeah. He wants to go see Margot more often. Yeah. But it builds up into this thing. And then you realize he knew all the time that eventually the coup was going to happen and they'd probably need to be able to get to the world really fucking quickly. I guess they can't get the wizards to do that thing with the coaches a second time? No. It'll backfire on you somehow.

It definitely will. It's interesting that we probably mentioned this during Thad, but the veterinary does seem to be the de facto representative of humanity as a whole when it comes to this particular diplomatic situation, the low king of the dwarves and the diamond king of the trolls and veterinary of the people. Well, I suppose it's Lady Margolotta of the people. Lady Margolotta the vampire. But she sort of represents the surface level to a certain extent in Bonnkomming,

she sort of represents the surface level to a certain extent in Bonk I mean, and Schwarzwaldsberg and that whole area. But yes, no, veterinary is sort of of the people or I suppose Ankh Moorpork's tendency to be involved in everything. Yes. And maintain diplomatic ties with everyone. Yeah, hard nutty when you are quite so influential on the economy and things. And veterinary doesn't want the world to get in the way of things like his long distance thud games by flicking prawns from semaphore to semaphore. So he wants there to be enough peace and he wants crackstowers working.

And that means it's worth an ink more pork taking a diplomatic interest. Diplomatic interest. You get that little thing off a sword. I do also, uh, just as a little hint for the next section, him just saying, what's Charlie up to? Yes. Is that the worst pun? Oh, no, there's still a worst one coming. He's running a Punch and Judy show. And then that's the way to do it. Was groan worthy. Yeah. All right. Have you got the last pun written down for later? Oh, we'll get there. We'll get there. I'm not letting it go by. The Marquis, I wanted

to mention briefly because he's a new character. We don't have a lot of new characters this section. Big fan of the railway. Another wife guy. Yeah. I spent a little bit trying to work out like the pun of his name, but I was trying to pronounce in French like I'm pa, something like that. But it's aches and pains. Oh, of course it is. Yeah, I read it's read totally. I'm glad you looked that up. We're getting a lot of bad French in a similarly amusing way that we usually get bad Latin,

which I'm enjoying. I am enjoying the bad French. Because I can, I don't have to rely on you so much, I think, for the bad French translation as I do the Latin. And plenty of, and I like that the Quermians are dubbed lobsters rather than using an actual slur for the French. Yeah, lobsters rather than frogs, that's fine. I'm gonna start calling people lobsters.

Of the Twilight, the Darkness meeting the Mackie. Yes. The lovely, I'm real, if you cut me, do I not bleed? And also, I bleeding well cuts you too, no offenseie. Yes. The lovely I'm real if you cut me do I not bleed and also I bleeding well cuts you too no offense meant. Yeah. And the Mackie completely taking this in his stride as well just like all right yeah come on do you want a wine? French aristocrat for you. Mm hmm. I thought well this is more vimes and no it's not it's moist. See I'm getting them mixed up in my head now because they're both meddling, they're meddling internationally. But I thought moist and marquee's little exchange where moist is like, oh, yes, well, you might not get all sorts of humor. But of course, the

Quirmians have the lovemaking and the cuisine and would you like to swap and all that. I thought that was a beautiful bit of diplomacy. Yeah. Putting some putting someone at ease being self deprecating while not being like, oh no, you've got wonderful sense of humour and quirm. Yeah, it was like a nice reminder of how charming Moist can be. Moist realising of the Twilight the Darkness is doing one of his speeches effectively to the Quirming Goblins, following the rhythm of it enough that he goes, oh, don't forget to mention. Of the Twilight the Darkness, is he another iteration of Stinky?

I wondered that. Because they're both the goblin from the book. Yeah. Vimes looks at Stinky and sees the goblin from the book. Moist looks at of the Twilight, the Darkness and sees the goblin from the book. They're both clearly supernatural. of the Twilight of the Darkness and sees the goblin from the book. They're both clearly supernatural. Yeah. They both can teleport through darkness.

Maybe it's more like the goblin from the book is an ephemeral concept that possesses the closest goblin needed for the plot. Well, not for the plot, but you know what I mean, to make things better for the goblin. So Stinky becomes more than just Stinky and becomes the goblin from the book when Vimes needs a goblin by her side and it improves the lot of goblins in the process. And now obviously, of the Twilight the Darkness is helping Moist improve the lot of goblins. It's like a little goblin god. Yeah. Yeah, I like that.

Well, what's the word when it's not quite a god but something believed in, like a totem? Yeah, yeah. It's not the word I'm thinking of, but you know, that vibe. Yes. This insistence on the full name. And when he does call Moist out on it, there's a couple of good moments of him calling Moist out and Moist realizing he brusselmly considered Moist to be a bit of a tid. But he stops him and corrects him and says, you give me half name Mr. Damp. I forgive.

Have mercy this time. I ask you don't do it again. It's important. Half name is shame. Challenge to fight. I know you're hasty. No understanding. We'll forgive you. We'll forgive once Mr. Lipwig. This by way of friendly information, no charge incurred. I really like the friendly information, no charge incurred at the end of that. Again, that sounds very stinky to me. Yeah. I also like the way he, knowing that humans don't have quite the same sensibilities around names takes huge advantage of that calling Moist, Mr. Damp, Mr. Soggy.

Slightly damp. Yeah. Who have we got next? Ardent. Sounds more specific, thesaurus. Yes. Ar we got next? Ardent. Specific thesaurus. Yes. Ardent. Fucking Ardent.

What a grotty little asshole. What a grotty little asshole. Yeah. Oozing around dwarf bars saying mean things. I found the nature of him spreading hate to be really interesting because he uses the goblins. He realizes he can't use the things that have reminded dwarfs to be dwarfs that have worked in the past. So he really quickly changes his rhetoric to, all right, fine, but what about the goblins then? Jessi Yes. Yeah, you got to find a new bigotry to tap into and that's always something.

Sam And then these phrases used during the coup, restoring order and going back to the basics of true dwarfishness. Jessi Yeah, it's a little bit, yeah, that. Yes, I just thought we'd mentioned Ardent's a twat. He is a twat. And well done, Albrexon for standing up for him and sitting down for him. Sticking to his guns and sitting on his scums. Yep. Very nice. Flash!

I really just bringing myself joy with thinking about how many listeners just joined in with that. Beautiful discordant harmony. Yeah. Yes, Flash the Golem Horse. And Moise struggling with this relationship. Go and roll around in a field a bit. Roll around on the flowers and nae a bit and gallop about and have some fun.

Yeah, court. Still not the worst pun of this section, but give me livery or give me death. I thought that was it for sure. No, we've got worse coming. three or give me death. I thought that was it for sure. No, we've got worse coming. But yeah, the idea that the golden horse had disability the whole time, nobody asked.

Yeah. It's a very praxity character actually, isn't it? Very praxity side character. It's like, oh yeah, no, I can speak. I've got infinite wisdom. Nobody asked me before. Nay. Roll around in the flowers.

The nays all sound incredibly sarcastic. Also thinking about how far Pratchett has come as a writer because the talking horse versus say the talking sword earlier on, this talking horse could have been really fucking irritating and it's not always great. The horse also has had thousands of years of thinking about what to say. So, I think Kring was gifted consciousness and immediately started running his mouth off. Yeah, can't be having that. And when they have the name conversation and Flash says, but it's a very nice feeling to know who you are. I wonder how I did without it for these past 903 years. Thank you, Mr. Lipfig. And it's on the surface a wonderful moment, but I feel like there's almost a hint of I've been patronised a bit here and I'm being a bit sarcastic about it

underneath it. But it's a nice move from Moist, especially because Moist will have names being important on the brain after that conversation with The Twilight of the Darkness. Yeah, that's a good point. Moist is very much against any kind of subjugation. Very much so. Very naturally so. I wonder what Adora thinks of his liberation of the horse. I think she would approve. And it's probably expected that if Moist rode the Gotlam horses long enough, something like this would happen. And then Commander Vimesimes who gets a brief appearance

in this section. I adored the handshake description. Like shaking hands with a boxing glove full of walnuts. Exactly. And then Moist's realization that he wasn't squeezing, he wasn't trying, it's just like that. Jesus man, what have you been doing for the last 40 books? Well. Yes, Moisten Vimes interacting, it does delight me because they are such wildly different people. Yes, wildly different people with the same goal in mind for once. Yes. Which is to stop all this fucking nonsense.

Yeah, it's like Chaotic Good versus Lawful Good. Yeah, except Lawful Good is constantly fighting not to be chaotic. And I feel like Chaotic Good is constantly fighting not to be lawful. Yeah, quite possibly. Or has a very thin skin of Lawful Good on top of him that he... I do think Vimes, and we'll talk about this a bit more next week, she's in the book quite a bit more next week, but he's probably one of the characters that most gets the, this feels sort of like some out of character stuff and not my Vimes, but I think a lot of that, like Vimes giving, what's the handshake in this section?

I think there is a bit of we're just not in Vimes' POV, which we normally like almost always are when we're with Vimes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And we get some, we get some moist speculation about every now and then his name hits you again. About Vimes like never laughing. And yes, you get to see how old Stoneface looks to somebody. Yeah. And actually, I was trying to think Vimes probably doesn't laugh very often, even when you're from his POV, but it's less unimaginable. No, it's not. Yeah, when he's around Sam and Sybil, I bet there's lots of laughter. I'm sure there is. And brief appearance from Feeny Upshot, who's done well for and his

special constable of the Chimney the Bones. Yeah, that's an interesting name. Yeah. Of the Chimney the Bones. Yeah, I actually didn't put that much thought into it. But yeah, it's a good name. Yeah. Off the chimney, the bones. Yeah, I actually didn't put that much thought into it, but yeah, that's a good name. But it's just nice to check back in with Feeney, who's done well for himself, gone to Atmorpork and had his proper training. Now he's too comfortable. And he knows what's what and he's gonna keep an eye on the clanking. I like the description of the overhang as well, that little geographical one.

Yes, that was a good moment. We have Mrs Georgina Bradshaw. I love this bit, meeting waves from the train and this idea of etiquette that has evolved so quickly of getting up to offer the lady your forward-facing seat. Yeah, I couldn't immediately. I did a little foray into train etiquette, which I'll go into more deeply for the right way hole on trains. I didn't immediately find anything about forward-facing seats, but I appreciate the idea that this might have been a thing. I can imagine it probably haven't been a thing. I'm not fussy about it. I would give up my seat to one who needed a seat to face it in a certain way

rather than based on gender. Wow. I'm shitting. Oh God, not woke nonsense on our Discworld podcast. Not on my railway. You can't do anything anymore because of this. Woke. Coke? You had your shovel coke into the train? I think that's not this one now.

It's tenuous. It's tenuous. Mrs. Georgina Bradshaw, who obviously is able to walk around Ackmore Park with a lot of jewellery on and a big ring on and not get in trouble, went to Quirm Ladies College, of course. She's a good traveler. And one imagines all manner of exotic occurrences must take place somewhere with a name like two shirts. One does imagine. One would hope that she finds her own, I think she's the kind of lady to find her own exotic occurrences and not to be disappointed by the reality of two shirts.

Exactly. And of course, again, most immediately seeing possibilities, bringing in Thomas Goatburger on this whole thing. There is, hopefully we'll get to do an episode on these like bonus books we haven't covered recently, but there is a Mrs Bradshaw's Railway Handbook that they brought out to go along with this, which have you read? No, I'm saving it saving it for the bonus episode. It's lovely. I genuinely really enjoy it. It's a nice little read. Good. I'll get myself a physical copy of that, I think. Yeah, it's got some nice little illustrations and stuff in it. I can't remember who did the illustration, whether it was Paul Kibbe or someone else. And then just lastly on characters as well. Sorry, I know we've gone on a bit. But there's lots of characters. A couple of

little cameos. I quite like All Johnson, obviously turning up one of my faves. Queen Kelly of Stolat, protector of the eight protectorates and emperors of the long, thin, debated peace upwards of Stokerig. So I'm glad she's still doing well and alive. Yeah, what the hell she is now. We can probably find out if we went on that very confusing disquieted timeline. Let's not think about that. I mean, if you think Mort lived, if she was about the same age as Mort, and then Mort lived that same amount again before he died, and died when Susan was a teenager and Susan's now an adult and a teacher. Then divide by pi. We'll stop now.

Right, Mort's 1967 you see. That's when he becomes Duke of Stohelet. And then 1996 is snuff and that's as far as it goes. So it's got to be 30. She'll be in her 50s, I reckon. Yeah. Yeah. Good on her though for, you know, being alive in general. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, after all, she very nearly wasn't. Well, yes, that was that one.

Do you remember that one time? I think they wrote a book about it. Yeah, I think they did. Oh, and last, not even really a cameo, but the wizards having a go on the train and Ponder revealing that he's a train spotter because of course Ponder's a train spotter. I know when they're all of them flapping their little fireproof robes around and opening and closing doors and blowing the whistles. In a different book, they could have had a lovely bee plot. And Rincewind huddling. Rincewind huddling, but realizing trains might be good for getting away from things quickly. Yes, but I do appreciate his natural fear towards the huge roaring beast he's on.

I appreciate his natural fear. Full stop. Kept him alive. Anyway, places. They're the question. Places. People, places. Places. People, places and then next we'll do things. Okay, the vegetable, animal, mineral.

And more pork. Fungal. Yes, and more pork. Sorry. And more pork. Fungal. Fungal. Civic Pride, this is the worst part. And this is when, of the Twilight, the Darkness explains that he's a proper Mauporkian, has seen the big horse and there is an extended joke about people going to see a big equestrian in Pseudopolis and saying, maybe it's a big horse, I'm Mauporkian.

Oh yeah. Which would be a popular song. Yeah. A, it is groan worthy. And B, ever since I read it, I've had that fucking song stuck in my head. Yeah, for lucky listeners who might not know it already. Do you want to ruin their day? Because I'm a Londoner that I love London so... I'm stopping there. Yeah, no, that's for the best. But we'll maybe if we really feel like ruining a day link to that in the show notes.

Yeah, we might. Don't click on it. And then we've got Quirm. Quirm, wait, no. At Warpwok, I just wanted to mention the fact that beckoning with long smoky fingers is a lovely way of describing the city. Yes. Sorry, Quirm.

For the France allegory, maybe. It's been a while since we had a punter allegory. The sister state of Querm comprises, like Antmoor Park, a major city, several theoretically autonomous satellites, each vying with all the others for advancement, any number of squabbling townships, all bloated with self-importance, and a vast number of homesteads, parishes, wineries, mines, hamlets, bends in the road that someone are named after their dog, and so on, and indeed, so on again. Yeah, what was that thing about governing France? What's that quote? Oh, Charles de Gaulle asking, how can you govern a country which has 246 varieties of cheese?

That's the age old question. And in this case. You know what? I could go some Bre. Oh yeah. Jesus, I don't have any nice cheeses. I haven't got any really good cheese. Oh actually I've got some.

Oh I'll tell you what. I'm having people come over for dinner on Monday. I'm Jack's aunt and uncle. I might roast a camembert. Do it. Bake a camembert. Yeah yeah. Yeah don't roast a camembert.

I was thinking. Yeah. I was thinking I might do fish pie for the main. Oh that's a good one. Do you think baked camembert would be a good idea? I don't know. I don't know. I might roast a camembert. Do it. Bake a camembert. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking, yeah, I think I might do fish pie for the main. Oh, that's a good one. Do you think baked camembert before fish pie is okay? Get away with it. Get away with it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it means you get to eat baked camembert. It does. And really, that's the most important thing here to me at this moment. Yeahle Should we get back to talking about the book? Sarah Wow, that was a hundred and a half wasn't it?

Merle The Makii, you looked up something. Sarah Oh, the Makii, yeah. I just didn't know what that was so I looked it up. And it is Shrubland. It's Shrubland. It's also the name for various resistance fighters. Particularly rural guerrilla friends, friends, bands, rural guerrilla friends, my band name, French and Belgian resistance fighters called Macky Tau during World War Two. But in this case, Macky Shrubland is kind of Mediterranean, Mediterranean landscape and you'll see in Cornwall, I think this is analogous to the kind of thing you'll see in Cornwall and the Channel Islands, the kind of thing you'll see in Cornwall and the Channel Islands. At the low evergreen foliage like gorse bush and blackthorn and generally painful plants.

Spiky. Nice. Cool. And then Lanka, because of course, Ferenc wants a railway so that Lanka can take its rightful place on the world stage. Of course he does. Adora's warning, they've got witches up there, they fly up to the Clackstowels and scratch coffee off the lads. But one of them does, especially when the lads are young. I think we can guess which witch that might be. Grannie. Nanny's quietly at home knitting or some shit. Things have changed since Junasaurus. How quickly do you think Adora had to ban scumble drinking?

Probably after the third or fourth fall to the almost death. Excellent, good. Well, as long as we know. Because it's this lanka, of course, it will have been cushioned by fortuitous bale of hay, a huge pile of manure, couple of sheep. And it's like the fourth time we run out of narrative tropes beautiful on you cannot drink scumble anymore. Sorry. I don't care if it's mainly apples, who keeps telling you that that old lady cannot be trusted. But yeah, I do feel like the fact that they've ruled this out, like the bridge

is too shitty and that makes sense. Like you've done one Lanka with a railway line going to it. No, I'm also now trying to imagine granny riding a train and I can't like my brain's just sliding off it. No, she wouldn't have it. Yeah, wouldn't be having with it. I'm not being funny. If the railway went to Lanka, it would be sent to you immediately. Yeah.

Like straight away. Yeah, You get the little train that could, wouldn't you? Yeah. But, but get the railway up to Lancor does help keep the elves off. Shit ton of iron everywhere. Shit ton of iron everywhere. Yeah. Swinetown. Swinetown. Oh yeah, just thought it was worth mentioning that Swinetown is almost certainly a reference to Swindon because Swindon in England is a town with a lot of railway history. It was a teeny little town that became quite a big town after they decided to build a railway station there. And it was the site of lots of manufacturing of some of the early locomotives. And then I thought while we mentioned that was probably worth

mentioning. There's been a couple of references to watercress specifically, which was quite an odd thing to go alongside strawberries as like an obvious, an obvious crop. And according to a Reddit thread, I saw anyway, the watercress line, which is indeed a steam train line, and which in fact, one of our lovely listeners, Briar, said that they had written on before. Excellent. Was where Pratchett would have done quite a lot of research for this. Oh, amazing. And take some of the inspiration off.

So yeah. Love that. Watercress on the mind. Terrible affliction. Oh God, she's got the watercress again. My mind is like a damp flannel. Please clip that and take that out of context. Parting porous and governing watercress.

Anyway. Should we take a break? Yeah, I think we're better. Little bits we liked. What did you like Francine? I rather liked the reference to primal soup from Old Johnson. Yes. We'd rather like a soup metaphor. In this case, it is just a soup,

but it is referring to, I've seen the origins of life. Although on Discworld, of course, that's from a soup and sandwich. But yes, primal soup, very warming that. I've been experimenting with serving it in cups with little lids on because there are things in that soup that, to be honest, you wouldn't want to spill on yourself. What do you think would be in a primal soup? Well, I was thinking about this because obviously in the last book, we meet Precious Johnson, our daughter and talk about the fact that the family is originally from her wonderland. And so I was thinking about Genua as a conduit for New Orleans and that there's probably

a sort of link across there. So I was thinking this is probably a gumbo-ish type soup. Yes, that would make sense. I'm wondering if- The tentacle on the lap often happens. Yeah, who's the witch from Witches Abroad? Mrs. Gogol. Mrs. Gogol, of course, Mrs Gogol. I'm wondering if maybe they know each other, maybe they've compared culinary histories.

I assume Earl Johnson's probably travelled quite well himself. Yes. I feel like primal soup sounds like something that could be quite gumbo-y. So what do you think is in primal soup? Well, I probably like the gumbo idea actually. Yeah, that's good. I suppose minestrone could also be seen as a little primal. Yeah, I think there's something quite primal about minestrone. God. Railway class mobility.

I like that. Again, we already talked about this scene Moist spinning off into ideas after averting a near tragedy. But the way he talks about it, Harry says, oh, you're inciting people to have ideas above their station and Moist says, let people aspire. They might have been in the wrong class all this time and just this image of this young guy getting the tickets to the slightly nicer carriages and thinking he wants a little bit more of this in his life. Jessi Moist is always the ardent capitalist. Sam It is and I shouldn't support this whole capitalistic idea quite so much but I enjoy it. it. The idea of stake joy in his joy. Exactly. I just like that as a little moment as an idea.

Yeah, that is nice. The middle carriage bit has been phased out again now, hasn't it? Of course, but that didn't used to be the thing. Yeah, now it's just- Third class, second class and first class. Now it's normal and first class. Yeah. I don't think I've ever actually traveled in first class on a train. I have once or twice just because if you buy tickets at last minute as I often did when I was commuting from London, occasionally the vagaries of the system meant that a first class ticket was slightly cheaper.

Yeah. So once or twice I did. I've got to say on an hour journey, which is what it was, came across Cambridge, it doesn't make enough difference to ever pay more for. But I imagine if you were willing to sell out a vast amount of money to go first class up to Scotland or something, that'd be rather grand. I do. I like the idea of doing one of the really fancy sleeper trains up to Scotland where you have like a nice meal on the train and stuff as well.

Yeah, same. I'd love that. I mean, I'd love to do one of those proper like fancy sort of cross country train journeys. Whether you're on Tixpress or through Switzerland or something. Yeah, where you stay in like an actual, you have an actual little bed and you have like a gourmet meal on the train and stuff. Yeah. There's one that goes across America, isn't there, like that? I can't remember what it's called.

I just, again, my tendency to romanticize train travel, but then want to do the really fancy version, I'll never pay for that. I'll not have that kind of expendable income. Yeah. And that means we can continue to romanticize train travel, but then want to do the really fancy version. I'll never pay for that. I'll not have that kind of expendable income. And that means we can continue to romanticize it without ever being faced with the reality that maybe the bed's not very comfy. Yeah. I just feel like I sleep really well in a bed on a train. Something about rhythm and noise will help me sleep. Like I sleep really well on airplanes if there's turbulence.

You psychopath. Yeah. Ah, imminent death, finally. Otherwise, I can't sleep on aeroplane, but turbulence, I just fall asleep. I don't know if my body's just like, oh, we might die, might as well have a nap. What else did you like? This is when we're talking about the poor chaps in the Effing Forest, which by the way, I should probably mention. The Effing forest is a nice forest in England.

Yes, and the Effing forest. Effing with a P. And the Effing forest sounds a little bit like it's sweary. Yes, which is amusing. Anyway, in the Effing forest. In the Effing forest. The Effing forest, Francine. We've got, there's something very vaguely worrying about the word reckon, which in this case

was coming out of Jed. Oh, what's his name? With Wesley Weasley? Yeah, yeah, something like that. Jed's mouth. And it is worrying to his brother crucible, lovely name for a boy. He's the brains of the operation, but that doesn't seem to be saying much. There's something vaguely worrying about the word reckon that leaves the ear for many hard to understand reasons, wishing it was something else a little more certain and a little less frightening. And as bad luck would have it some 20 minutes later, an ear was exactly what spiralled down out of the settling steaming fog and through mangled trees that looked like they've been sidelined by dragons and

birds that were coming down cooked. But yes, the reck the reckon that I particularly liked, it's just hard to stop that paragraph. No, that was nearly my quote. But yeah, reckoning, I think we've talked about. Well, a reckoning is something different, isn't it actually on Discworld, especially a reckoning is quite important and solid. But I reckon, goes along with it stands to reason. And so they say on the list of phrases that make you not trust this person in this world. Yeah, I very much agree. And I like that moment.

Okay. How about you, Joanna? I wasn't even sure what this last bullet point referred to. There's a scene quite late in this section, where a troll and a dwarf who both have a history of working in libraries, meet by chance in a railway station and run away together. I assume this is meant to be a direct reference to Brief Encounter, which is one of my favorite films of all time. It is about a couple who meet by chance in a railway station waiting room and enter into what I say is mostly an emotional affair. They are both married and not unhappily married, but just unfulfilled and want more from their lives. And it's all, you know, it's black and white. I think it was released, I want to say late 1940s, early 1950s, maybe. And it's very, I don't know, this sort of sad longing. It's a very

bittersweet film. I love it. It makes me cry like a baby. I really like this little moment here and the woman running the waiting room cafe who understands this is how it goes and this is what will happen now people can travel. It seems like it's got a happier ending than Brief Encounter. I like it. Story spoilers for a movie that came out well over 50 years ago. Oh yeah. I mean, I'll still happily watch it. You can't expect a happy ending from a railway waiting room, can you? Unless you're on this world. Well, yes. And also a tron and a dwarf running off together as well. There's something nice

there too. That's cute. And something about bonding over a love of words particularly. Oh yeah, especially when her husband was like, mumbling should be fine like it was in the old days. Yes, exactly. From railway waiting rooms to, I suppose, the railway itself. Talk to me about things, Francine. I will. I just got a couple more fun little train things to talk about. I said that in

such a cheerful way, but train accidents, Joanna. A big part of this section, or a substantial part of this section, was about the very nearly accident with the poor little children and the subsequent clean up your act speech. Gabbard Yes. And of course, we do get the actual railway accident in Quirm as well. Joanna Yes, of course. With the slightly less professional outfit. Actually, right at the beginning, I'll say that there's a really good omnibus episode about rail gauge, like the different widths basically, of railway

lines, was one of the really early ones. And that might have been the one that got me into omnibus actually. I'll link to that. Anyway, so yeah, obviously, unsurprisingly, rail travel was super dangerous and working on the railway was super dangerous for a very long time. Yeah, there's a Wikipedia page I'll link to called list of rail accidents before 1880, which I can scroll down for really quite some time. I am not surprised. It is fascinating and obviously slightly macabre reading. The earliest one is from 1650, which careful listeners might recognize as a year

far before the train. But two boys died when they were run over by a wagon on a wooden coal wagon way. Wow, say that five times after a scumble. Wooden coal wagon way. Wooden coal wagon way. Wagon will with two C. Anyway, two boys died. It's fine. It was in 1650.

Yeah, I feel like it's been long enough. Yeah, because it was on a railway. Anyway, I quite like the Wikipedia entry for it because it said, while such tramway accidents are not generally listed as rail accidents, brackets note the lack of accidents listed for the next 163 years. This is sometimes cited as the earliest known railway accident there. Nice little rare snark from a wiki editor I'm going to say there. I like that. Prominent, you get 1813 boy killed

running alongside the Middleton railway and a lot of the subsequent ones were either exploding boilers or people just wandering along the railway or running alongside it or using it as a path or it's foggy and you weren't sure how close you were to it. And yeah that pretty much as in the Angmore Fork version people are just like oh this is interesting and fun. I'm not really thinking about the fact that something extremely fast and heavy is about to run over my head. I'll also link to a couple of really cool pages. There's one from the Railway Museum, which is about railway safety and like the start of it. Yeah, basically, a lot of workers, especially unsurprisingly, used to be killed or maimed, working on the railway. And obviously, most of my readings been on Britain, but in 1887, 734

workers were killed. Wow. And there was eventually a huge drive for safety within the industry. And I just thought it was incredible how similar some of the languages to modern health and safety communications. Yeah. So this is from a handbook for employees in 1914. It's all very well, but that's what some of the wise acres say about the safety movement. Everything safety and inverted commas and inverted commonness. It's very much Lieutenant what's his face from Monstrous Regiment. Blouse.

Oh, with the roofing. Yeah, anything slightly racy is put in inverted commas. I've been brushing up on my sword drill. We saw it stated in a certain journal that many of the so-called regulations are known to be quite impracticable. The only object served is that of dummies for window dressing. That's the kind of notion that does the mischief. Act up to it and you'll be lucky if you're not killed and injured within a week. Again, that is exactly the kind of thing you write about now if you're writing for somebody in a dangerous industry. You're like, oh, that's only for the sake

of it. No, it's not. No, it's not. All of these are written down in blood, basically. Yeah, these all have precedents, which is why we now do things like this. Exactly. And then you also get things like familiarity breeds contempt, it's what you'd now call complacency or procedural shift. But I particularly liked the clipping about the familiarity breeds contempt because it starts, there's no gammon about this, we're not making it up. I'm like, no gammon about this. And so I had to look up in Green's dictionary of slang, gammon used to mean nonsense lies humbug, as gammon or gammoning. As opposed to gammon now, which means people who speak nonsense lies and humbug on question

time. Isn't it interesting that it just popped back up after after 100 years, I would say, of not being used at all. It also used to mean like a thief or a criminal. Yeah, I got distracted by that for a while. I also had a little look at things like etiquette and I found a lovely book called Railway Travelers Handbook of Hints, Suggestions and Advice, which is a very, I would say, narratively generous account of this travellers anecdotes and things like that, as well as being very funny and probably some very useful advice in there. So this is about how you must be patient with other passengers and leave yourself plenty of time at the ticket office so that you don't end up missing your train. don't end up missing your train. Perhaps some of our readers might be able to call to mind some such scene as the following, which is indeed one of the incidents of almost every departing train. An elderly lady presents herself at the ticket counter and expresses a wish to go some place at

short distance, say Putney. She first of all inquires what is fair, first, second and third class. Upon being told that, she hesitates a few seconds and then thinks she will travel first class. Being asked whether she requires a single or return ticket, she appears to be astounded at the proposition, ejaculates, ah, oh, ah, at wide intervals, and finally decides upon a single ticket, giving at the time her reasons for doing so. Having been informed that the fair is ninths, she dives for her purse into some apparently unfathomable chasm connected with her dress and after considerable rummaging, accompanied by a jingling of keys and the production, in succession of a pocket handkerchief, smelling bottle, a pair of mittens, spectacle case, a fan and an Abernathy biscuit, she at length succeeds in drawing forth

an article which resembles an attenuated eel. Thrusting her long bony fingers into this receptacle, she draws out what she conceives to be a shilling, but on nearer inspection she discovers it to be a sovereign. She makes another dive and produces a half-crown, she supposes, but this proves to be only a penny piece. Finally, she manages to fish out sixpence, connecting the penny piece and vaguely wondering whether she can find twopence more to make up the required amount, but without arriving at any satisfactory conclusion, she is at length constrained to give her further search and to lay down the sovereign. Upon receiving her change, she examines each peach leisurely to ascertain

it to be genuine. Satisfied on this point, she counts her change over, repeating the process some four or five times on each occasion, arriving at a different result. length she makes out the matter to her satisfaction and having carefully stoned away her change in such a manner that the first pickpocket may abstracted. She looks about her to see that she has left nothing behind and after remarking how wonderfully the clerk resembles her nephew who has gone to the Indies, she somewhat reluctantly makes way for the next person." This took up like quite a lot of space in this little book to the point where I have to feel the writer wrote it immediately after this encounter. Also, I believe this to be granny weatherworks while playing bridge and I know I brought

that up twice recently. Cripple Mr. Onion. Cripple Mr. Onion, my apologies. Either that or Nanny Og on a normal day. Yeah, no, this could be either. But it's a fantastic little anecdote. I love it. And yeah, I spent all my time reading anecdotes like that instead of finding out whether you're meant to get up to give a woman a forward-facing seat. That's fair, I would have done exactly the same thing. You must also make sure to stow your hat box properly so it doesn't fall on

anybody. And if you are going to wear a top hat box properly so it doesn't fall on anybody. And if you are going to wear a top hat, you should wear a collapsible. Oh, of course. Of course. Thus, I can connect it back to Discworld. Thus, of course, stick Simmel telling Moispon that we're to get a flatter cap. It was only, I'm sure, to preserve the structural integrity of his headgear. Perfect.

Amazing. The whippet I haven't explained yet. But it's delightful nonetheless. Do you have anything more sensible to talk about? Well, speaking of writing, let's talk about journalism. Let's do that. We've got a lot of press stuff in this section, including a silly footnote joke about the journalists having to go out to Stolat and were worried they'd get mud on their new shoes

and be attacked by pheasants. I've known a few people who are nervous about such things. Yeah, yes. I'll tell you what, you do well to be nervous to be attacked by pheasants. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't want to be attacked by a pheasant. I'm not sure I could take one in a fight. No, during mating season, whatever it is, they will attack vehicles, they attack tractors. Yeah. Anyway.

Just just a little bit of sage advice from the truth shall make you frat. Stay away from pheasants. Muddy shoes, we can't help it. Just wear wellies. Wear sensible shoes. Obviously, it's interesting partly because Pratchett had so much of his own experience in journalism and strong feelings about getting journalism right. But also we've had a book before, The Truth, about journalism as the new thing and now in this the train's the new thing and the journalism is this established undercurrent. I thought it was really interesting. I'd be remiss if I didn't obviously mention during

Pratchett's time as a press officer at CEGB. He was part of an event in which the company were proving that flask carrying nuclear waste were safe to be transported by train, which they demonstrated by crashing one of these into another train in a controlled event and very specifically making sure the crash happened at 100 miles per hour. That's a headline. 99 miles per hour is not a headline. The full story is in A Life with Fur Notes, obviously, and in Mark's wonderful book, I believe it's mentioned as well. Which is The Magic of Terry Precht.

But that reminds me of another early steam train story, which I think was in America actually and they did run two trains together as some kind of spectacle and I think somebody died in that one. Yeah, well no one died in this one. Everything went well because... Good, good. No nuclear waste was sprinkled over the countryside. That was the point. Well, they used an empty one for the demonstration, I do believe.

Well, all right. Sorry. So as far as I know, no nuclear waste running around. So you have these press interactions and obviously it's fun because moisture spinning is spin on things, but it's the press dealing with dick signals. So you have the Stoke Plains, the big railway opening Moist in the vicinity of the press was as straightforward as a bag of kaleidoscopes. You have Dick Simnel who's obviously very straightforward when dealing with the Cydopolis Daily Press, specifically Hardwick who was adept at getting the wrong end of the stick on purpose and then hitting people over the head with it. I can sense Pratchett's dissatisfaction with papers that do this on

purpose. But this person runs against the iron and steel of Dick Simnel and who says, there's a lot of things that are dangerous. Other people might be dangerous and you, Mr. Ardwick, you've been talking to me for five minutes, hoping that a country boy like me is going to be tempted to say something I shouldn't." He ends that speech with, power is dangerous, all power, including yours, Mr. Ardwick. The difference is the power of the iron girder is controllable, whereas you can write whatever you damn well like. I thought that was a really good moment from Pratchett. He's really thinking about how quickly the presses become established, how quickly the train can becomeett. He's really thinking about how quickly the press has become established,

how quickly the train can become established. He's obviously done his research and looked at horrors and moral panic when trains first started becoming a thing. He cares very much about being accurate about what these dangers are. If you think about the fact that he was dealing as a press officer with all of the press panic about nuclear waste specifically being moved on trains, he probably had to deal with a lot of this very directly. Niamh The fairy mound, of course, as well. Sarah Well, obviously that too. Niamh But yeah, one of the bits in the press is claiming that your face melts after 30 miles an

hour or something. It's particularly egregious in a world with wizards and witches on broomsticks and such. Sarah Yeah, and golem horses. Yes, I think people have probably experienced in quite a few different ways that faces don't necessarily melt at 30 miles an hour. But why let that get in the way of a good story? I also like the what about all the damage it's going to do to cows and horses in fields and digs sort of like, well, some of the horses try and race it. It's quite sweet. Probably it was. It did some mischief to a cow or two, I'll bet. Yeah. For international listeners, I would like to point out that it is a very

strict English-British tradition that while travelling in a car or a train, but it's more fun on trains, I feel, if you see horses or cows out of the window, you must point them out to your companion. Say horses or cows. It must be the same in other countries in France. Le cheval, right? Is that how you say horses? That was a sample. Maybe. Ship something. International listeners, tell us if you point out horses and cows on journeys. Please.

The people need to know. Answers on a vintage travel poster from Train Travel, because I've been looking at a lovely... Oh, I love a vintage travel poster. And vintage style travel posters. Especially like there's a big trend of like nerd artwork and stuff like vintage style travel posters of fantasy places. Yeah, see, I do kind of like that. But there's a because it's such a trend now, there's a lot of really poorly done ones. And I feel like it's sitting on a genre of painting I really like. Yeah.

There was some really nice ones up in the Shuffle Board Game Cafe last time we were there. They were nice. Oh, yeah, they did have some nice ones. There are some really nicely done ones. I'm just being a grump because I think I've seen a lot of AI ones recently. Yeah, no, I don't want I don't want to be buying shitty AI artwork. Anyway, sorry. Unsurprisingly. Anyway, sorry, the press. After the Effing Forest incident, and again, you have Moise getting in there trying to

ahead of things to get ahead of the press, Otto Creek turning up first, I like, because no one knows how he gets everywhere so quickly, but he's really good at it and he's a black ribboner, so we're not going to ask. Yeah, yeah, but it's fine. But yeah, the rest of the press gang arrived at cross purposes, all of them expecting the others to tell them what was going on. So you get this immediate cross talk and miscommunication. Keeping the most knowing to keep the murkiest lines of the press especially, but all of them away from Mrs. Wesley so they don't ask things like, how did you feel when you found out both of your sons had been melted?

Yeah. And the innkeeper very happy to take them in instead. Yes. No wonder it's like a diurno. And make quite a lot of money. But then you have the Sidorblad's daily press guy trying to trick Simnel again and Simnel going straight in with the really straight answers. And a moment I really love in this is Sakurisa Krypselok changes the subject by asking Dick Simnel if he's got a sweetheart. Yes. And I like the idea, I mean, I like Sakharisa Krypcelok turning up anyway, because I love her.

What was the phrase? Sakharisa was respectable in the way some people are religious. Yes. And because she's been there for Moise von Lipfig when he was making the post office happen, when he was making the banks happen, so of course she's here. And I because she's been there for Mois von Lippwig when he was making the post office happen, when he was making the banks happen. So of course she's here. And I think she's more inclined to be on the railway side from the start because she's seen what else Mois von Lippwig has done. Yes. Although they both enjoy the little dual they get every time.

And the press couldn't deal with a straightforward man. The certainty in his face simply disarmed them and possibly thought Mois made them wish they were better people. Yeah, Dick Simenow turns out surprisingly good PR guy. And I love again using the press as an example to show how quickly the trains become part of everyday life in the times high as a railway correspondent. Mr. Raymond Shuttle, who is already a happy trainsporter. So yeah, I just like that Pratchett has incorporated all of this into this and he's not just looking at what the people are saying, the

people on the street. It is how do newspapers react to this? How do they sensationalize it? Yeah, yeah, but definitely, yeah, including all of the previous progress that Ang Morpork has made in its gallop towards the Industrial Revolution. Yeah. And I think it's a particularly well written aspect of the book because it's being written by someone who has done all of this. Yeah, yeah, definitely. The general interesting fact actually talking about that is we've covered a much larger period of time than usual, haven't we? Yeah, time is the industrial revolutionists have been compressed for the sake of a good story, which I support.

Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, we talked about that in Dodger, didn't we? How time is compressed in a city and Angmorport's only getting cityer. Cityer and cityer. Cityer and cityer. Now everything is closer to Angitmoreport because of the rail it's easier to get there. Everything else can get a little bit compressed. And is that a good thing or not? Find out next time. Only if your hat's collapsible. Good point. Francine, have you got an obscure reference for me? I have. It's French.

Ooh. I will say it off my earth. Mon Dieu. Evick. Mon Dieu. Unfortunately, I have not snails for the wine, but... And our Emily tells me that Quermian for railway means card game. So, sorry. I'm very glad you looked this up.

Oh, yes. Because I couldn't be bothered to. Oh good. But I was curious. Yeah. So, Chemin de Fer is a version of Baccarat which first appeared in the late 19th century. And according to the Wikipedia page, its name, which is the French term for railway, comes from the version being quicker than the original game. The railway being at that time the fastest means of transport.

It's still the most popular version of France. Is that right? Apparently. All right. it's still the most popular version of France. Is that right? Apparently. All right. How do you tell? There are a lot of old women's houses at 3pm on a Saturday and find out what version of Baccarat they're playing. I assume Baccarat is played by older women at 3pm on a Saturday. Got to be, isn't it? I still don't know what Chemin de Fer means literally though. Never mind. This isn't the time to be. Well, would Fer not be iron or something to do with iron?

Oh yeah, something else. Yeah, so something of iron. It's not bloody iron walls or something. It could be iron road. Is it the iron path? Okay, fantastic, we got there. Look at us. Look at us. Look at us go. Right, I think that's all we're going to say about part two of Raising Steam. We will be back next week with part three, which starts where this one ended and goes all the way to the end. I'm pretty sure you can figure that

out, hopefully. Until then, dear listeners, you can of course... Sorry. This is the end of the night. All change, please. This plane has reached its termination. Francine, can I do that next week? Sorry, I've gone hysterical with lack of camembert. Please continue. No, that's happened to all of us. Mon Dieu. Until then, you can't. No. My brain is flannel. You dampened governing water in water, guys. Come on, dear. Um, god, I could go a lobster. Until next week, dear listeners, you can join our Discord.

There is a link down below. You can follow us on Instagram and the True Show Make You Fret on Twitter and Blue Sky at Make You Fret Pod on Facebook at the True Show Make You Fret. Join us on Reddit r slash ttsnyf. Email us your thoughts, queries, castles, snacks and collapsible top hats at thetrue-shown-makey-fretpod.gmail.com, and if you want to support us financially and honestly after this, why would you? Go to patreon.com forward slash the true-shown-makey-fret, where you can exchange your hard-earned pennies for all sorts of bonus nonsense. And until next time, dear listeners, don't let us detain you.

What's don't let us detain you in French? Don't let us... Oh, good question. I do have a Google Translate open as it happens. Ne nous laissez pas vous retenir. Oh, I like that. Ne nous laissez pas vous retenir. Retenir? Retenir. I don't know why you're looking at me like I fucking had it. We should not be allowed to go near French anywhere near this time of night.