The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - 153: Raising Steam Pt. 3 (It's All Gradely, Baby)

Episode Date: October 28, 2024

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan and Francine Carrel, read and recap every book from Sir Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series in chronological order. This week, Part 3 of our recap of “Raising Steam”. Train Fight! On the Roof! Find us on the internet:Twitter: @MakeYeFretPodInstagram: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretFacebook: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: [e-mail]: www.patreon.com/thetruthshallmakeyefretDiscord: https://discord.gg/29wMyuDHGP Want to follow your hosts and their internet doings? Follow Joanna on twitter @joannahagan and follow Francine @francibambi Things we blathered on about:Visions of the Future | NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) Bradshaw's Guide - Wikipedia  The Meaning of Liff - Wikipedia Cumulonimbus Incus Description: Anvil Cloud - WhatsThisCloud Campaign for Level BoardingDid John Wilkes Booth's Brother Save the Life of Abraham Lincoln's Son? - Snopes.comCranbury Park - Wikipedia    Music: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.com

Yesterday, I went and brushed my teeth and came back and she had eviscerated a hot water bottle cover. Oh no. It had like a stuffed elephant on it. Portis and bowled elephant, but extremely funny because after I kind of put it in a cupboard and walked back out and she was standing at the top of the stairs looking all sad because I talked to her slightly sternly. And then she just went bleh and the tusk fell out. Fantastic. So yeah, immediately forgiven. Anyway, so there is some Pratchett related news this week, two times. Two big bits.

First of all, there is going to be a sequel to the amazing Morris movie produced by the same people and all that jazz, which came out a couple of days ago. How do we feel about that? Neutral, I think, which does not seem to be the opinion of many people on Tintinette. But it's not going to be based off of a Discworld novel or a practice novel, but that's fine and it's a kids movie. So maybe I'll watch it, but if I don't, it's fine. It's not for me. Yeah. I'll probably rope you into watching it at some point. Yeah. We'll do a little podcast about it. Like we don't really know anything about it,

but from Morris is going to be looking for the waters of life. Oh yeah. And I think there's a new character. I think people were bitching about a new character. I kind of get why people are annoyed, but also I find the annoyance irritating because I am a bitch. I was going to say contrary. That too. Raging bitch. Now I feel like if Rob Wilkins and Rihanna are okay with something, you don't need to leap to defend Jerry Pratchett's legacy. Yeah.

Yeah. And also nothing is being taken away from you by this being made. That is my general feeling when like a bad adaptation or something happens. I think that's it. And we have gone against our general line on this when we bitched about the watch or whatever it was called. I tried to like that. I put an effort in. Yeah, you did. I didn't. We did have an hour of us ranting after we saw the trailer as well.

We were really bitchy that day. Yeah, we were. I don't think we were in a very good mood. But my general line on things, and I try and stick to it, is exactly as you say, it's not taking away from what I have already loved and enjoyed and still have. You can make as many shit adaptations of the picture of Dorian Gray as you like and it never upset me, even when that was my very favourite book of all time. Okay, no, I am slightly annoyed because apparently there's a new modernised version coming out where Dorian and Basil are siblings. Oh, no, I am slightly annoyed because apparently there's a new like modernized version coming out where Dorian and Basil are siblings.

Oh, yeah, no, that is weird. Yeah. Like, either you're making it incestuous, so you're taking out the queer subtexts either way, no, I'm not happy about this. That kind of thing in adaptive choices, I get annoyed about like unqueering characters and that kind of thing. Okay, yeah, that's a good point. That's good point. But that's, you know, especially stuff that's very personal to me. But yeah, just a bad adaptation or a new adaptation or even this is not an adaptation. It's a sequel to a movie that was an adaptation. Yeah. I think the thing is, if it was somebody writing like, this is a Deathqld book and run it, pass it off as like in the series of established whatever, then yeah,

obviously that would never happen because it's a very tightly controlled estate yeah good reason um but that would be something worse looking at but it's not like it genuinely it's not going to affect me at all unless you'd like me to watch it in which case it will affect me for as long as i feel like watching it and talking about it yeah the thing is as well like i liked the first movie it was a fun kids movie it wasn't 100 accurate adaptation but was fun. It was in the spirit of things at least. And it's the sort of movie that my nephew would really enjoy. Yeah. And it introduces people to the... Yeah. The oeuvre.

We'll take anything that helps people join our cults. Not a cult, definitely not a cult. Not a cult, do I know? cult, definitely not a cult. I forgot where I was going with this. But I don't think that first movie would have gotten made if there wasn't this franchise potential. Yeah, it never really occurred to me that they'd make a sequel, but I guess everything is sequels now, isn't it? Yeah, it didn't occur to me, but it doesn't surprise me. Yeah, and you know, it's nice that it's successful enough that it's getting one, I guess. Yeah, true. And like I said, if it helps people join the cult, not a cult.

Still not a cult guys. No goat sacrifice. Cult brackets not a cult. This is very um may she rest in peace or whatever it is. Yeah. Goodie whence her may she rest in peace. Yeah that's the one. To join our cult not a cult. And yeah the other big bit of news uh Good Omens Season 3 is happening, but it's now going to be one feature length episode. So a movie. Yeah, I'm going to be just as helpful in my reaction to that. Whereas where it is not at all neutral, it is so confused as to be functionally neutral

because I don't know how to react to anything Good Omensy anymore. Yeah, it's complicated. We haven't really talked about the Neil Gaiman thing much on the podcast because I don't know about you, I haven't felt like I have anything helpful to add to the conversation. It's an incredibly shit thing. One of the people we massively admire turned out to be an absolute... A word we don't normally use on the podcast. Yeah.

The one that Francine bleeps. Yeah. And yeah, that is very sad. We believe the people who... Yeah, obviously we... Yeah. ...have told their stories. But because of that, well, probably because of that, Good Omens Series 3 is now going to be one episode, is

that right? Yeah, one 90-minute episode. So basically like a short movie, or what I consider to be the ideal length for a movie because I don't like films that are over two hours long. Agreed, that we can agree on. The one exception being the Lord of the Rings extended versions because they have built-in intervals and because they provide an opportunity to sit on the sofa and eat a ton of snacks. Anyway, good moments. Yeah, also feeling

so confused about it is to be practically neutral. Yeah, it's, we would like to hear your thoughts on it listeners actually. Yeah, we would. It's going to come out quite a long time after the main run of this podcast is finished, but it might be something we look at. Yeah, we are hoping to obviously still be podcasting. Whether we cover it or not, we'll, if you know, if a bunch of our listeners turn around and say, we don't want to hear you talk about that, or do anything about it, then we probably won't. Or if we sort out our thoughts in such a way that just leans towards not feeling like doing that, actually actually or working out that

it seems harmful in some way. Yeah. I'm sort of torn between like, I did want to see the end of the story, but this is a story partially written by a very gross man. I've got to say, like even just talking through it now, I'm feeling less like I want to watch it. I think I've not tried to like talk or type or anything about it really. Yeah. Yeah, I've been watching like people discussing it, but I haven't been, you know, saying lots of opinions myself. I mean, I'm glad for the sake of the other people working on the show that it gets to have a conclusion because I feel like that's important to them. I know

like I got the impression from things that have been said that, like, Rob Wilkins did really want this made. Yeah. Well. I also don't know if I'm just trying to justify to myself still watching it even though I feel lucky about watching it. That's it, isn't it? So, I don't want to be that guy. I think I'm going to wait and just see, like, how I feel about it when it comes out. Yeah. Yeah. In summary listeners, our reaction is question mark, question mark, question

mark. Very much so. Do we want to talk about anything less question-marking? Oh, I'm desperately trying to think of something. Yeah. I went to see a live show of No Such Things Fish the other night. That was very cool. Oh yeah. How was that? Yeah. I really enjoyed it. Did you have fun? Did you learn interesting things? I did learn interesting things. I won't spoil the show for anybody, but one thing

I learned that wasn't to do with the show was that apparently the ghost of Grimaldi haunts the theatre it was at, which is the theatre world, Drury Lane. Nice. Yeah. Phil Tripp. Phil Tripp in seance. Yes. We also, and I say we because I texted you as soon as I learned this information during the interval, found out some weird shit about Grimaldi's dad. For instance, he was obsessed

with death and used to feign death in front of his children to gauge their reactions. And after his death, well, in its will, I think he asked for his daughter to decapitate him so he wouldn't be accidentally buried alive. And as a reward, his daughter got an extra five pounds in the will. Nice. Seems fair. And yeah, Grimaldi, really interesting bloke, just really interesting life. And you've told, you told me a lot about him in like the context of performance, but yeah, just reading about his childhood.

Really interesting guy. Yeah. I only really know about, I mean, like the context of clowning, that noble sport. Clowning context. Clowning context. But yeah. Clowns are so interesting, the more we learn about clowns. Yeah, no, I'm quite fascinated by clowns. Maybe I'll become one.

Yeah. Do you know what, apparently, doing like, well, okay, so there's two sides to this. And in fact, bringing it back to no such thing as fish, I think it was Andrew Hunter Murray, who went to clown college for like a week or something on a small clowning course. Apparently, it was like incredibly gruelling and psychologically damaging. Yeah, on the other hand, apparently it's meant to be very freeing. How did we get here? Grimaldi, you know such things as a fish. Thank you. Yeah. Wednesday night. It was such a warm night. It was lovely.

Walking around Covent Garden after the sun had just gone down, it felt like it was really late at night on a summer night instead of like, early-ish night on a late October night. Oh yeah, the clocks are going to change. I think the clocks change tomorrow actually. was really late at night on a summer night instead of like earliest night on a late October night. Oh yeah, the clocks are going to change. I think the clocks change tomorrow actually. Time for my regular depression to become seasonal depression. Eventually, honestly, I don't think I'm really going to notice the clocks changing all that much. I've already been getting up before it's fully light out outside, which I quite like. It's one thing I do like about winter is getting up when it's still dark.

That's such a contrary thing to say. like, is one thing I do like about winter is getting up when it's still dark. Because I don't- That's such a contrary thing to say. It's because I don't have to physically go to a job. So it's like, oh, I'm up, but it's still dark. And it feels a bit like I've gotten up in the middle of the night and I'm having like secret extra time. Bonus time. Yeah. Yeah. Bonus time. I did get that.

I stayed in Soho once because I was having like a procedure done early in the morning the next day. Oho procedure. It makes it sound like I was getting some kind of plastic surgery. I have not, I can't afford it. We went up the night before and stayed in a hotel because we had to be at the clinic stupid o'clock in the morning. I got up really early and was smoking a cigarette in Soho while the sun was coming up. I felt like I've kind of let myself down in that I've come at this from the wrong angle.

If I'm smoking a cigarette in Soho, it should be because I haven't been to bed yet. That is the best kind of sunrise. Well, certainly in the days where I... Yeah. Now, if I accidentally see the sunrise, it is not because I've had fun. Or it is, but it's that kind of fun where you just kind of honed in on a game or something

and feel kind of sick at yourself for doing it. I have in recent years at least once seen the sunrise after making pasta at like four in the morning to be fair, which was great but then I got really grumpy at myself for losing some of the next day. It's like the opposite of secret time. Anyway, we've got plenty of time left this evening. Do you want to make a podcast? Yeah, let's make a podcast. Before the sun comes up. Before the sun comes up. It's nice to know we're sharing the brain cell today. Hello and welcome to the True Show Make You Fretter podcast in which we are reading and

recapping every book from Terry Pranchett's Dear Squad series, one a time in chronological order. I'm Joanna Hagan. And I'm Francine Carroll. And this is part three of our discussion of raising steam. We're pulling into the station, but dramatically. Yes. Some of us are on top of the train. A note on spoilers before we crack on, we are a spoiler-like podcast. Obviously, heavy spoilers for the book, Raising Steam. However, we are going to save any and all mention of the final Discworld novel, The Shepherd's Crown, until we get there so you, dear listeners, can come on the

journey with us. I'm trying to dodge boulders being flung at us from every side while we're at it. Yeah, which I'm really worried about how they got them in the house in the first place. Like to bring them in here, get them up the stairs and then start. That's dedication, so you know what? I'll accept it. Yeah. Yeah. We got anything to follow up on Francine?

Yeah which I probably should have opened up before starting this bit. I got distracted by the fact that I had to quickly write the previously on as I made a coffee. A little bit of inside baseball there. I'm admitting my massive faults purely as a stalling tactic. Yeah so we asked the question last week, did any of our international listeners engage in the fire and story tradition of pointing out of train windows and shouting or at least saying enthusiastically the name of the farm animal outside? Yes, everybody does. The TikTok clip I posted has many a comment. I've got at least Belgium, yes, US, yes, Poland, yes, Germany, yes, and a couple other countries and some additions.

Some people actually make the, make the sound as well. Now so moves and oinks and the like. Somebody said they do the weather forecast of cows. So I guess that's if they're lying down, it's meant to rain, right? Yeah. I don't know if there's any more, like if they've got the sun cream out, it's going to be fine. They've got the sun cream out, it's gonna be fine. If they've got hats on.

Oh, cute. Do you have any follow ups that's slightly more sensible than that? Ellen on the Patreon sent us some really cool like vintage style travel posters, but they're like from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory at NASA. It was like a thing they did. So there's like visit Mars. There's a really cool Venus one, the Jupiter one is gorgeous. So I will post that link in the show notes so everyone can have a look. They're really lovely bits of artwork and not AI generated. Oh, also, I should point out one of our lovely listeners said that we didn't mention Bradshaw's guides, which was a series of round world railway guidebooks.

This is Georgina Bradshaw's work is based on. Exactly. Yeah. And we will talk about those properly when we do the spinoff. Yes, that's good point. We didn't even mention that. That was Matt. Yes. Thank you. Francine, do you want to tell us what happened previously on Raising Steam? Previously on Raising Steam. It's full steam ahead to Quirm and beyond as the permanent way cuts through the bucolic countryside and into the Badlands. The deep-downers don't like this, surprisingly. Bloodshed begets bloodshed and soon railway workers and dwarves lie dead in the Mackies, some of the latter struck down by the flailing weaponry of Moist who, in the course of this section, accepts

two questionable goblin concoctions with wildly different results. Meanwhile, Ardent subterranean subterfuge reaches a coup crescendo, pushing the U-Wald Express to the top of Vettnare's priority list and, very soon and very mandatorily, Moist's to-do list. Excellent. What happened this time Joanna, in this section? Quite a lot of stuff. We got to the end of the book. The compound is abuzz the race is on and Simnel wants his flagship girder on the tracks. First a train to Quirm where Bashful's waiting at the low

King's borrowed chateau. At night they take a surreptitious train back to Mount Maupolc and Moist worries as his inner monologues chase each other but everything is going to be fine. At dinner at Harry King's Moist stakes his life on the train reaching Uberwald while decoy dwarfs are sent out on coaches. Next up, it's a train to Stolat and overnight at Mrs. Simnel's while the decoy coaches are attacked and Gragg's planned sabotage. Moist disguises an engineer, catches a couple of Delver dwarfs on the train to Zempfis, and Vimes interrogates in a friendly manner. The world rushes by, clacks are delivered, and at night Moist dances on the roof. Delver's make an attempt in Zempfis, but a newly gussied-up girder arrives to carry Reese to Uberwald. She shrugs off

dropped boulders and soldiers on as the foe flees, but Vimes grabs a few rags. After a quick banquet in Ohul and Kutash, the train continues and a decoy flyer gets derailed. Gnomes are hired and the train goes on, but the engineers need a nap. Meanwhile in Schmaltzberg, a cell-built Albrecht sits through Ardent's ranting before getting a klax delivery. Mysterious thudding interludes abound and high on a hill as a lonely goat herd, as Willeiners pass approaches and Moist von Litvig promises to fly. In an audience with the low king, Moist learns that she's truly the low queen, just in time to reach the gorge. A fog solid enough to stand on swells, an iron girder flies.

There's menace in the air as crags prepare for one last attack. There's battle on top of the train, but in the end the queen is safe and girder pulls into bulk. Ardent's losing support in Schmolzberg and Rhys brings Vines as she goes to reclaim the mines. The war is over, the scone is secure, and Ardent's promised a trial. The low queen declares herself, Albertson learns, and a banquet's thrown. One night, before leaving, Moist and Gerda discuss worship. Back in the goblin office, and Charlie's done well, Moist is home, Sam and Sybil have breakfast, Harry and Effie are off to the palace, there's medals galore, the veterinary reveals the truth about Stoker Blake to Moist who continues to live.

And finally, a goblin events a velocipede. Paper. Velocipede, one of my favourite words. Velocipede, yes. Love the word velocipede. Helicopter and loincloth watch for a helicopter flying train. Even if it's a little bit propped up. A flying train in Francine. Yeah, a flying train.

Yeah, it's a flying train. Believe, Francine, you've got to believe in the flying train. You can fly, you can fly. For loincloth I'm going with Ayn Gerda's New Causes. Oh, very cute. Quotes. Quotes. I think mine's first. On every crag in the mountains of Uwevold you could see the lights of the eagles twinkling and wobbling in the darkness of the canyons and green lightning flashed from gargoyle to gargoyle

like spectres. I did really like spectres. I did really like that. I love a nice little bit of geographical description from Pratchett. I went with another short one. When you've had hatred on your tongue for such a long time, you don't know how to spit it out. Banging lines. Thymes drop some real bangers in this one. Yeah.

It's very evocative as well, isn't it? You can imagine it and they're pinching like an earwig. Yeah. Oh, that's a horrible thought. Characters. Shall we start with Mois Swanlip, Vig? Yes, let's. He gets his Mercury moment, I would say. He gets one in every book, but he gets to dance on the roof of a train, which I think is his. I do. All of the dancing on the roof of the train stuff. I love and we'll talk about a lot later in the episode as well. But you know what, I was trying to make a point of he has his Mercury dancing moment in every book he's in. And obviously in going postals, he dances and

the flames of the post office. And in my head, I'm sure I could remember him in making money, like dancing around the empty bank, but I couldn't find the passage. So I think maybe I imagined it. Was it when he was like climbing through the empty bank, the very video gamey bit? Maybe that's what I'm thinking of. He was enjoying himself, wasn't he? Yeah, he was enjoying himself as if he was dancing. It was a sort of dancing for Moist. Thank you. That's very kind of you. Yeah. I like when he's talking to low king slash low queen, using the fact that he's a crook to prove he's trustworthy. Yeah. It seems like something the low queen wouldn't fall for, but there it is.

Well, it's not falling for it. I think it's accepting it for what it is. Yeah, no, you're right. Yeah, he's at least being honest about what he is. It would have been suspicious if he tried to. Pretend he'd always been an upstanding citizen. He says, I was a crook and a scoundrel. I've got the knack of finding friends easily. But yeah, she says, I trust you because I know your reputation and you're a survivor and possibly a plaything of the gods or perhaps the most handsome bag of wind that there has ever been. It's flattering.

I think the fact that he's got Vettinari's endorsement counts for a lot here as well. It does. Like he calls himself Vettinari's scoundrel, which is interesting. You've got Vettinari's terrier and Vettinari's scoundrel, which is interesting, you've got Vettinari's terrier and Vettinari's scoundrel. Niamh Yes, he's always, he's very aware of the, even at this point when he is in charge, well not in charge of, yeah in charge of I'm going to say three major institutions, he still, I think it was raised the prickle of a Phantom noose. He can always feel on the edge of the gallows and Venari's

kept him in that position mentally, which is a really interesting realisation that he's still that terrified that Venari can just have him hanged for a second. I mean, partly because he's literally experienced it. He knows what the noose feels like. Yeah. I mean, I think we talked about that briefing going postal, didn't we? It's kind of a funny moment in a way, but there is also... Pratchett makes clear, even if it's just briefly, that it's frightening, it's traumatising. I like that he's so that into moist. After they get across the gorge on the train with the help of some golems that definitely weren't there because no one can find any evidence of them having been there.

How could they have been there? Nobody saw them walking across the landscape. Exactly. You see him finally gets to be alone for a second, he's like, oh thank fuck we got away with that. Jesus Christ. You don't get to see that often with most like the actual bit behind the bullshit. Yeah. You can see it on the cinema screen, can't you? Literally the biting the fist and the cheese. It's funny because it goes from that to a flashback to a conversation he has with veterinary about definitely not using the golems. Part of it is, oh, thank God that worked. Let's just hope we continue with the bit where no one realises what I did or is clever enough to not mention what I did.

A flashback to the conversation was nicely read as well, wasn't it? It was the, if I find out, hanging in the air like an invitation or something. Yeah, that was great. find out like hanging in the air like an invitation or something. Yeah. There was one that I really liked moist using his powers for I mean, he's using his powers for good a lot now. He's using his powers for good in a reformed character traditional way, which is frightening a child to death. Oh, and the like railway children.

He raised his voice. Can you imagine a railway accident, the screaming of the rails and the people inside and the explosion that sized the countryside around when the boiler bursts? And you little girl and your little friends would have done all that, killed a trainload of people and little girls crying and absolutely petrified and they'd realized the severity of what they were doing. And that all recently like near where we live, a couple of kids were caught after throwing some traffic going up a bridge like onto the A14 major road. And this always occurs to me when you hear stories like this, they don't understand, do they? They don't fucking understand that you could

kill somebody. It always blows my mind that, you know, children have so much ability to walk around and cause trouble before their brains have quite caught up with their bodies. That's why children terrify me. They're ambulatory Joanna. I do think it's really good though when you have Mois go and talk to the girl's father and he says, you know, I'll turn her eyes like, no, you won't. And she's got a good imagination, maybe encouraged that bit. Yeah, get us right. Penny Dreadful, which I did also like the line that Penny Dreadful is being really popular in railway waiting stations. It's just like another thing that the extra industry this has created. Oh, they must have appeared between the truth and now as a genre and now they're

exploding in popularity. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. I mean, because there was printing and publishing before the truth, because obviously you had Thomas Goatburger and Nanny's cookbook. Yes, of course. They're selling cookbook.

But Penny Dreadfuls, I think definitely, you know, it's got to be a printing press type thing, isn't it? Pulp fiction. Yeah, no one's engraving Penny Dreadfuls, I think definitely, you know, it's got to be a printing press type thing, isn't it? Pulp fiction. Yeah, no one's engraving Penny Dreadfuls. Yeah. My artistic passion is beautiful black-lettered scrolls that are just trash magazine columns. I'll write them if you calligraphy them. Okay.

Oh god, now I want to do like a whole calligraphy version of one of those like love it, take a break type magazines. Yeah. Yeah. My husband left me for a ghost. Right. Sorry. Is that, have you got any more thoughts on Moisture? Should we move on to Dick? Yes. Let's do that. Not reacting to your provocations. He's the nice movements where he's thinking about his Emily, who's found, he's found a strange

and attractive new world and she was very good at handling the firebox without ever getting her dress dirty. And he says, I reckon Iyengarda likes her, um, cause you never see a smut on her and I come out looking like a dustman and when we finish she looks like she's one of them ballerinas or something. Yeah. Cause I like the idea that the two women index life have come to an understanding. They are such different characters that it works. Oh, it's great. It's wonderful. I think Dora Bell might have struggled to get along so well with Dianne Burr, Gerda, for instance. If it was Moisture, who's heart the train had.

Yeah. It reminds me a little, Dick Simnel reminds me, and bear with me, of the, what's her name, the girl in Masquerade, not Agnes. Wait, are you talking about Emily reminds you of? No. Oh no, you are. Mm-hmm. Why I'm saying bear with me.

Oh, I can't remember the character's name. I know who you're talking about. Yeah. But the blonde one. Yeah. Yeah. It reminds me of it because it's another partnership book where the character we are following is definitely not the main character of this story. The main character of our story, but the story is Dick Simnel.

Dick Simnel is the main character. And I and Gerda, yeah, they're the main characters. And Agnes gets the realization that whatever her fucking name is, oh my god, I can't remember, is the main character of the story. Yeah. Because she's the squeaky blonde ballerina. Yeah, who's singing at the weirdo ghost. Yes. More obvious comparison is the one Moist makes to Leonard of Quirm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. obvious comparison is the one Moist makes to Leonard of Quirm. Which I like as Moist thought that Simnel was a genius in a reassuringly solid Simnel sort of way, whereas Leonard would get distracted halfway through the journey by an idea for using cabbages as fuel, or using waste from the firebox to grow better cabbage or painting a masterpiece of a nymph clad in cabbage leaves and coal. I'm very sorry. I've just realised there was a way more obvious example, which is Monstrous Regiment, where Polly is not the main character and has the conscious realisation that Wazir is the main character. Let's pretend I said that. I'm not going to edit that, so listeners, just please join in our delusion. Thank you.

But yes, Leonard of Quam, who has designed things that it wasn't time for was Leonard of Quam's problem really. I'd say his problem, his problem in veterinary's eyes in his own head, he's worked out pretty well, isn't he? He's in a nice room with all the paper he can eat and lots of screws and things as long as he promises not to build anything too functional. Exactly. Unless Vesanari is okayed it as with the submarine. The pedal goes submarine. There's the really great moment where Moist is just trying to get Diximnal to go and get some sleep and they get into this not quite argument but obviously tempers are fraying and everyone's very tired. And there's the great line of he detected in Dick's eyes not madness, but something else more subtle. It was a sort of hunger for anything that was new and for proving something could be refined to the point of

perfection and kept there. And it says that this is endemic in the goblins. The great moment when Dick gets pissed off, he says to Moist, who are you to talk? What is it you've made? What is it you are? I thought there was a really interesting yardstick to measure him by. I really liked how he cut through Moist as well with it. You've not got to talk fingernails, you've not done this or that. It refers back to the start of the book where Moist has his inner monologue talking about how he doesn't want to do any manual labour more than picking up a glass. Yeah, exactly. I think it's very much the, if not the spirit of Eingard, the spirit of the railway yelling through Dick at this moment.

Yeah, and Moist has a good answer for it, you know, I'm the catalyst, I'm the things that make this stuff happen. And the railway probably wouldn't have got to this point without Moist Von Litvig doing his thing. It needed his spin on it. Yeah, it turns out Moist Von Litvig is almost fatally self-confident, so this didn't work. But I feel like I'm a lesser man. It would work if someone shouted at me. I also just hear, what is it you've made? And I think that's the reaction if someone sees any of my baking attempts. What have you done? For God's sake Joanne, what have you done? Why is your spanocopter sentient? And the belief moment just before they go over the bridge and

Moist is building everyone up and he's, do you believe, do you believe? And he's like, yes, and I believe in the sliding rule. I and Gerda in the spine machine and I built her every last rivet, carefully forged my hand. I reckon if I could bolt in the sliding rule. I and Gerda in the spine machine and I built her every last rivet, carefully forged my hand and I reckon if I could bolt rails onto the sky, I and Gerda would take us to the moon. And it's great because you very rarely because Dick Simenol is the one with his flat cap on straight so you don't see him getting excited often. Moist is the one that gets excited while Dick Simenol checks the fiddles with the dials.

But Moist is an extremely effective hype man. Yes. He will get the audience going even if that audience is one very tired engineer. Well, the kind of hype man we all need. Yeah, absolutely. So yes, speaking of Iron Gerda, he's now clad in saurotanium and has literal plot armour. All the stuff about Iron Gerda being something more than just a train in this bit is really fun. Flyers look like machinery but Irongerda always looked like somebody. Something bad

would happen if she wasn't queen of the yard. She never sleeps, there's always that little hiss, mechanical susceration whether or not she's ostensibly running. Mechanical susceration. Great line. Love that. There's a great bit as well where they're talking about how she keeps looking different and you know obviously the books already talked about the fact that any like upgrades go to her first and she constantly gets worked on the way it sort of you know

Dick spends all his time tinkering with her and at the end she's still lying girder she always will be and there's something like the girder of Theseus there Yeah. The kind of sped up evolution of technology in a very disc-worldian way, while keeping this soul of the idea, the spark that, what's it called, the inspiration particle that came through and this time managed to aim itself. At the right person, at the right time. Having first missed and gone for his father who is now a proud of Binkstein. at the right time. Having first missed and gone for his father who is now a cloud of mink steam. There's also a line I really enjoyed because a call back to Going Postal, there was so much space everywhere and I and Gerda ate it up like a tiger attacking the horizon as if

it were an affront. I think their Gerda has much in common with Boris the horse who wanted to bite the horizon. Yes. Well, A, yes, I think Aingard is very much a spiritual defendant of Boris the horse. Yeah. But B, the way Aingard is talked about reminds me of how the press is talked about in the truth. That's why it's always feeling so familiar to me. Oh, yeah. Every time voice turns up, it looks different because the engineer has been working on it, but it's still a press. And it's this gleaming mechanical ominous, not quite ominous, but this object that dominates the space is very ominous.

I think it could be ominous, even if it's a good thing. Yeah, it's ominous in the truth. You know, the press wants to be fed. Yeah. I hadn't thought about that connection before. Yeah, let's hope the two never meet. And yeah, she speaks to Moist at the end. She tells him that she is Iengardr. I'm an idea of something made of nothing whose time has come to be, and some may even call

me goddess. My headcanon here is that Iengardr could not have spoken so clearly to anybody else on this. No. Moist, because he is the catalyst of Angmpalk, can receive these sentences, these full paragraphs instead of the vague sense of drive that everyone else gets. I think you have to be this odd avatar of progress. Moist has made himself into an avatar of progress because he became the messenger in going postal,

he became the bank man, the money man in making money with his, and he's got his golden suit. He does make himself into a figure of belief. Mrs. Simnel, I want to talk about quickly because I love the scene with Mrs. Simnel and how much Dick looks after his mum. This description of this fantastic clock in the hallway that was there to show everyone that he was buying nice things for his mom. I wonder if there's a little bit of autobiography in that. Yeah, I do wonder. And that Terry Pratchett, like we know from his writings and from Rob's writings that as soon as he had money, his parents were like, looked after. Yeah.

Oh, there's a great moment where she's talking about the nice things he sent her and the other day, oh, it were a lobster in a bag of ice. I had to go all the way up to posh restaurants, There's a great moment where she's talking about the nice things he sent her and the other day, oh, it were a lobster in a bag of ice. I had to go all the way up to posh restaurants to find out how to cook it but it were greatly enthused to them. I love the idea of like work of living in this little town where you're like, I've got this. I'm going to go to the local posh restaurant and ask what to do. And sharing it with an old woman what she does for who's tooth lit up at the look of it. Also,

gradeley I really like because you don't hear that often. And it's all gradeley baby. No, I look gradeley. I look gradeley up because you don't hear it often and I like it as a slang term. I want to see if I can find etymology. So just from Miriam Webster. It comes from Middle English, greathly or greathly, which comes from greathly, if they're in Old Norse, or greathly-er. but it means that ready prompt. This is the initial meaning. Obviously now it's you know, something that's very good.

I also like that she had peas pudding hot and then put some back in the pot so that there would be peas pudding cold. Peas pudding in the pot. Nine days old. Nine days old. Yeah. That will never happen with the railway engineer as a son. No, absolutely not.

And then the low queen has changed her name to Bloodwyn, which I'm sorry Welsh listeners because that's probably not how I meant to say that. Yeah, which either a bit of a coincidence or is like in memoriam to the bride who was killed earlier in the book. Oh, was she Bloodwyn as well? Yeah, she was Bloodwyn. Oh, well I'm going to head count on that that was for her, whether it was intended or not. Yeah.

Or perhaps you just could only think of one feminine Welsh name. And they're both Chlamydonian. Chlamydocian. Chlamydocian. There's something about being genuinely good at remembering people, at putting them at ease, which is fun for us as a reader, because you get this where she's talking like plans with vines and, oh, I remember Sergeant Littlebossom from when we met eight years ago. And if my backside's still on the scone when all of this is over, then Sergeant Littlebossom will have earned any fame as they want. A King's Crest Sheet has to be worth something when you say blackboard

monitor vines. And it's like, it's fun when you're reading it because like we going, oh, yeah, I remember when the low king met Cheery and I remember how Vimes became Blackboard monitor Vimes. But we're also seeing it from Moist's point of view, who has no idea what that conversation is about. You also get to see the king, yeah, still referring to himself as a king at this point, figuring out Moist on Lipvig as they go. And so when he's chatting to Adora, I think it was, and Adora is like, well, if he can achieve all this while riding a white charter, he'll be happy as a clam. And the king laughed in a rather strange way and said, well, let's hope

he's not unduly shocked. Which by the way, lovely name for a girl. Yes, really shocked. But you can see him like, hmm, do we? Is this what we need? I think we like him and we don't want to see him killed. But is this the kind of person who can do what we need? Yeah, what we need right now? And yes, as it turns out, but you can see why they were like, I trust people like Vimes, who's very, very down the middle. Yeah. Might, you know, go off a little bit to get stuff done. But at the end of the day, things will be achieved. Yeah. It's the Terrier. Yes.

Whereas the Scoundrel is all shades of grey. Oh, this is like a new Tarot set, isn't it? The Scoundrel, the Terrier. Yeah. Oh, we should think of some others. Yeah. Fetnari's Tarot. Yes.

Love that. And yeah, and then on the gender stuff, the moment when Mrs. Simnel realises something is nice because it just moist is very confused. But also because they've either just had or are just about to have the conversation about Mrs. Simnel being a midwife and delivering a lot of babies. And it's revealed at the end that she's pregnant, blood when not Mrs. Simnel. So I think the realisation is not hang on this is a woman, it's hang on this is a pregnant woman. As I was reading it, that's what I assumed as well, because we already knew.

Yeah, because we read the book. The female. But I forgot that not everybody knew. Yeah. Because it was only implied at the end of the fifth elephant as well. Strongly implied. Very strongly implied to be fair. Moist also spots that there's something going on with her and her secretary, obviously, Aeron. I love at the end when she has come out to everyone and Al Brixton is the one who shouts, tack, save the queen, which is a very nice bit of

growth for that guy, isn't it? Yeah, it is. I mean, it's real, like radical growth from- From who he was in The Fifth Elephant. He was like the real conservative, but sticking by the rule and like, my time will come around, don't worry, kind of thing. And now he's like, oh no, maybe I'm coming around to the time. Maybe that instead. There's something about sitting in a cell for ages. There's also the nice moment after all the announcements and everything where afterwards the Queen walked among her quite possibly loyal subjects. It was a grand perambulation

with little outbreaks of male skirts and elaborately coiffed beards among the certain of the dwarfs rushing shyly over to assure her of their fealty. It's lovely. I want to mention Aeron quickly as well, because Mois thinks of Eron as a dwarf version of Drumknot. And considering what we now know about the relationship between Eron and Bloodwen, this obviously has implications. Listeners can't see how hard I just roll my eyes. Okay, but so out of curiosity, because I've been using this as a metric a lot writing about teen dramas, I decided to have a look at Discworld on Archive of Our Own.

Sorry, sorry. I know. I've been using Archive of Our Own, which is a very popular fan fiction website and looking at like what are the most popular pairings. There's like a metric writing about teen dramas. So I decided to have a look at that for Discworld. Okay. Now, I would like to make it very queer. Very queer. I'd like to make it very queer. That was Freudian. I'd like to be very clear that I know that these relationship bearings on AO3, I know

this is not all romantic or sexual, I know not all fan fiction is dirty, but it's funnier if we assume this is all meant to be romantic or dirty. And I feel like if it's paired as a pairing, isn't it probably romantic or dirty? Quite possibly. Some of them might just be people are writing about these two stories together. Oh, okay. So yeah, relationships, AO3, the top list for Discworld. Number one, Havelock, Vettinari and Samuel Vimes.

Yeah, no, that's the one I keep finding on Tumblr. Number two, Sibyl and Sam. Vanilla. Number three, Maladite and Polly. I support that, I ship it. Yeah, I think we shipped that at the time. Yeah, I think we did. Number four, Drumnought and veterinary.

Number five, boring canonical Carrot and Angua. Number six, Sibyl Ramkin, Havelock veterinary Samuel Vimes. What? The Ruppel Energy. Adorabelle, I've always wanted to... Oh, and there's some Sibyl Rampkin and Havelock Vettinari. I feel like Thrupple only for that one, personally. How dare you?

I'm going to yuck that yum. How very dare you disperse Sibyl Rampkin's name. She would never. Drumknot on the other hand. Well, that's not upsetting anybody else. I might not believe it personally. But if it did happen, that wouldn't make me think less of either of the parties involved. Well, yeah. However. Anyway, I thought that'd be an amusing diversion for all of us.

I'm infuriated by that one genre of erotic fan fiction. Okay, I feel like- I'm mildly amused by the rest. Yeah, I feel like we're really skipping over the throuple concept here though. Yeah, my brain is just kind of skipping over it like a- Just sliding off that one straight past. Should we talk about Bash Fawcett then? Yes, let's.

In like an erotic fan fiction sense or in a going back to the podcast? I feel like we should probably go back to the podcast. Okay. I feel like we could do an erotic fan fiction special at some point. Okay. The truth shall make you fret after dark. The truth shall make you fret after dark, brackets specifically those two like really hysterical hours between two and 4am. Yeah, that's why we should record the erotic fan fiction bonus episode. Okay. Right. But yeah, no, I figured we'd go back to the podcast and talk about

Bashfulson in the context of the book Raising Steam. Yeah, that's probably a good idea. He's not a major character in this bit, but I want to point out like a couple of little moments. I really like just because I love it as a turn of phrase, is when he's bringing Moist in to meet the low, well, still low king at this point, and says, I just want to mark your card, Rhee, which is the same phrasing Sergeant Jack Ramuses in Monstrous Regiment and to William Dwight, I want to mark your card, Rhee Tiger. I don't know why I really like it as a little turn of phrase. it I want to mark your card read Tiger. I don't know why I really like it as a little turn of phrase.

Yeah it's like um it's like dance cars. Yeah exactly. Yes I just grew up in Bridgerton obviously. But yeah it's a yeah it's cute. I like the moment as well when Detritus is getting everyone on the train and says all right if anyone's a grag and Bashfuson very politely says, quiet. De Dijs is like, yes, but you're okay. Manda knows you and his lady so you can get on. One little slightly out of character moment when they're on the train and they're making all these plans and Bashfusson's frustrated that it's staying political and Reece isn't willing to just go in and fuck everything up. And he's like, I've come to the conclusion if you keep turning the other cheek they'll go on slacking you in the face. I think there's nothing for it but to go in, cut out and have done. You reminded me at that point of, what's the priest's name, the Omnium Priest?

Oh, Oates, Pastor Oates. Pastor Oates. He reminds me of him in that moment because Pastor Oates is a similarly very chill religious figure who is also a militant when needs be because that's the life he lives. He has that massive axe or whatever he has. Yeah, and freed nut. Anyway, yeah, so I just want to point this out. Vimes. Yeah, before we do Vimes actually, because I'm going to forget otherwise, we have Detritus. And Detritus yells a couple of slurs against dwarves, which I thought was not very him, even in this context.

Oh, yeah, I don't like that. He said gritsucker and lawn ornaments or something. I don't think he'd do that anymore. No. I mean, he is yelling at specifically at dwarves trying to kill him. But I still- He makes a lot of cheery heard. Yeah, that's a good point. Well, let's hope he doesn't. I'll forgive him this one because it's very, very high tensions.

Yeah, but he shouldn't be. Anyway, Commander Vimes. Vimes, he's having fun. He is having fun. He's kind of cementing his status as Avatar of Rage though, isn't he? Tearing his shirt off. I was wondering if we were going to talk about the bit where Vimes rips his shirt off. Immediately. I have no concept of not talking about this. I mean, I'm okay with it.

We're going to erotic fan fiction this episode then. Vimes climbing up on a train and ripping his shirt off. Get you a man. But I'm just climbing up on a train and ripping his shirt off. Get you a man. Who at least sexily becomes a human incarnation of rage. Yeah. I am unfortunately also imagining it very Hulk literally, or Superman. Yeah. Well, it's got to be. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely a moment that happened in this book. Can I just point out that we were both just really offended at the idea of anyone fucking around on Sam or Sybil and now we're just very much thinking about Sam ripping his shirt off. But we're doing it

respectfully. I don't believe in thought crime. Oh yeah, that's a good point. We are doing it. We're looking respectfully. Yes, exactly. Rackets respectfully. Just imagine I said that after everything I said. Sorry. Should we talk about something more sensible? Well, kind of. In SNAP, we talked a bit about how Vimes was kind of evolving into this supernatural version of himself and really, yeah, the summoning dark becoming a part of him in a way that neither he nor the summoning dark could have imagined and, you know, him becoming this force, this avatar.

I think that's really solidifying here and you can see it from an outside perspective, which is particularly interesting. Yeah, I agree with you there. Especially when you have things like him, he's using it as an interrogation tool, especially with dwarves because he knows how they'll react to it and it terrifies them. Yeah, which we did say would have ruined the normal police procedurals had he not been, we imagine he's retiring pretty soon after this, I think we decided, didn't we? Because you can't be a moral head of police while also being a weird supernatural entity.

Yeah, I think he's stepping back from stuff that isn't, you know, big things like this. You do kind of want him onside to prevent the proper international incident or at least a Condele international incident. I like seeing him from Moise's perspective because it's a new fresh look at him for us. When he is not using the marks to interrogate people, he's just dealing with the grags that they've managed to take on the train. The commander is soothingly as a mother with a new baby played a theme that put Moist von Lippwig, confident stricter, liar, cheat, fraudswinner and king of slyness, to shame. He's very good at the interrogation as I'll find.

I like the moment where he steps off into the fog. There's something incredibly confident about it. Like he's seen Moist doing it and he's immediately accepted that there's not a trick that definitely works. I want to go and steps off into the fog and lights his cigar. He also I imagine knows Moist Manliff-Vigvel enough that he knows he would have been caught by the collar at this knob. Yeah. Knob in the case. Yeah, there in the case. It's a calling of the bluff and it turned out not to be a bluff so it was fine. Yeah, well yeah that's what I mean. The confidence and like the absolute balls on him to do it to call out the bluff because obviously there is that slight risk of falling into a gorge.

And I feel like really underlining the fact he was even if it was just playing up being so confident and comfortable in the situation that he said oh it, it's just like pavement, which as we all know, is Zambines natural habitat. Very much. He is pavement based. Pavement based life form, which is a big step up from his gutter based life form status in the first book he was in. Oh, yeah, he is. He's raised slightly. At the moment in Zemphis as well, where he's talking about, you know, there's only so much policing you can do. Who knows what dreadful things are happening behind closed doors,

but you can't kick down every door in the universe. And again, just get some really banger lines this section. Yeah. Last week you said that Vimes got some particularly out of character bits this section. Do you recall what you were thinking of? I'm struggling to think what I was thinking of. I know Vimes is the character I've seen people complain as being the most out of character in this book, but I do think a lot of that can be attributed to him being seen through my size. But I feel like what he's missing in this book is the rage, apart from when he's ripping his shirt off on top of a train, obviously. I think that's

because actually a lot of the Vimes rage that we see when we're reading a watchbook is internal, it's in a monologue stuff. He does not let a lot of that show, so Mois isn't seeing it. So he's seeing the bit of Vimes that is like, gone on a fun train adventure. Yeah, I agree. Some of his monologue is maybe less obviously vimes than it might have been a book or two ago. But he's out of the city. What are you going to do? Yeah. You've got other things to be worrying about. He's handling being out of the city well this time.

Isn't he? He has learned some lessons. He's kind of on familiar ground because he's been to Uber World before, obviously. He's been to Schmaltzberg. And he's on a train, which I would say is a bit of an extension of the city. Yeah, he's like got a bit of city with him. He's not actually having to like, engage with nature. No, there's no trees. Yeah, there's nothing making noises at him from a bush.

He did express a distrust of trees once again. Yeah, well, I respect that about him. Probably caught that in Fifth Elephant and now, well, I respect that about him. I'll be talking about him fifth elephant, and now. Yeah, I respect that about him. Consistently anti-tree, our lovely lines. Yeah, and then Vettinari, as Stoker Blake. Yes, because of course. Because of course he is.

I love Blake introduced as death on legs if aroused, as immediately like just this intimidating character that wins all of these shuffle fights. He's just this master of disguise and you're allowed to forget that a lot. It's a really fun part of veterinary. And a nice, I don't know, not even really foreshadow but earlier in this bit of the book when they're going for dinner and veterinary steps out from the shadows, so I'm like, oh yeah, he can do

that. So of course he can also do things like being Stoker Blake. His kind of revelation to Moist, like saying that I was Stoker Blake, whatever. I feel like Moist is the only character he would have done that to in that way. Because again, Moist is so frightened for his life all the time, at least in the back of his mind. I feel like Vines, he would have just hinted at it. Yeah. Vines would be like, surely not. No, surely not. No. And then just- I mean, definitely yes, but surely not. And like have to live with that uncertainty forever. I think there's a little bit as well of Moist is the only one who can really appreciate it

because it was a con. He conned them. And no one can kind of enjoy a con as much as Moist can. And remember, Moist, one bit, Vic, I'm better at this than you. Yes, exactly. I really enjoy that. Also, not on the Stoker Blake bit, but as Vettinari, again, with Memphis with this sort of, it's a bit of a cesspit area, and Moist is saying, well, it's out of your jurisdiction, isn't it? And that's something we were talking about in snuff, like what is and isn't, finds its jurisdiction. We are quite a long way out of the jurisdiction now. We're very far out of the jurisdiction, but Moise is like, well, I can't speak for veterinary,

but I think he allows this place to exist so it doesn't exist in Nightmore Park. And then maybe someday there'll be people here who want to see some lore on the streets. But it was that veterinary allowing it to exist and thinking about how far reaching he really is beyond the caustic walls of Aincmore Park. It does sound a lot like Aincmore Park in the early days, doesn't it? Yeah, it sounds almost like Rincewind era Aincmore Park. And then who else have we got? Oh, Effie and Harry King or Harry King, Lord King of the Permanent Way. Lord King of the Permanent Way, what a title.

And Effie has properly become a Duchess. Finally. I'm also again just throwing head cannons at this, that Sybil quietly takes Effie to one side and gives her Duchess lessons, not in a like this is etiquette and how you do things properly, but this is how you're confident enough as a Duchess that it doesn't matter if you don't have quite the right spoons. LW – Yes, yes. I think you should come around for tea on a weekly basis for a little while as we subtly learn how to…

G – I think Sybil will be taking Effie under her wing if she hasn't already. LW – Yes, introducing her carefully to the right people at the right time. I bet there'll be some ladies of society you don't want to meet in your first week as a Duchess. Oh, the Selechites and the Venturis. The civil will know the pleasant ones. Yes, the Emers. Effie can come meet some of the Emers. Interchangeable Emers.

Describing when she finds out she's got royalty coming to dinner and she'd begun her preparations for the meal with a headache, moved on to a dither and then segued into an organization of military precision and dimensions, bullying the cooks and frantically looking up such things as what spoon you used with what soup. Is this the correct order in which to organize a dinner? Yes. Headache, dither. You can dither before headache, but I find it's best to get the headache out of the way first, because then you can take some painkillers and kind of dither while they're kicking in.

Got it. Yeah. And then is it later that she almost faces another tizzy? His wife, oh yes, as the coach arrived at the palace, his wife nearly had another tizzy to contend with. Fantastic. Then speaking, we were jumping back around to dwarves and Elbrooked, who we've already talked about quite a bit, but these wonderful these wonderful moments of learning and growing from the character who was in the Fifth Elephant. Calling out Ardent in the process, he gets the great line about traditions and Ardent says to him, like, but you're our traditionalist, King. You're that guy. And he's like, yeah, traditions were to keep us safe. The Graggs Clay thing being because of the fire damp, traditions are there for a purpose because they work. It's talking

about the health and safety requirements written in blood, but in this they've gone a step further where those requirements have become traditions. He says, you and the others don't realize outside the caverns, the world is different, and So I keep the special days because they bring us together." And then he ends that bit on just a really fantastic closing line, which is burning words dying in the sky. Is that to be the legacy of the dwarfs? And he's talking about the burning Klax towers. And if you think about burning the Klax towers in the context of Blackboard Monitor and what it means to erase words to dwarfs. Yeah, that is surely the greater evil than Klax existing. Yeah.

Just to be destroying- Down the words as theyfs. Yeah, that is surely the greater evil than clax existent. Yeah. Be destroying. Down the words as they go. Yeah. I think he showed his cards as a kind of productive traditionalist the last time he appeared and he's just kind of doubling down on that. Yeah. And I can imagine he would still argue with the low queen about how traditional they should be and sticking to this, that and the other.

But for this moment, the correct thing to do for like the stability of kind is to get get behind the queen. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And when it comes to arguing about the Sabbath or whatever it is, then we'll talk but for now, let's just make sure as a as a culture and a society, we aren't going to be wiped out by the stupidity of the fringe. Exactly. And as a sidebar as well, just the goblin that's helping him and he learns, we see him like learn on screen to that he needs to be nicer and more respectful to goblins. And the goblin is called Rattle of the Wheels. And I already already mentioned there's a goblin called Off the Sky the Rim, that's this goblin's father, which love, but also his mother is of the Heffiness the Heart. Then his younger brother is of the Wars of the Crane, so both

of these young goblins have names taken from the railway. Yeah, lovely. Yeah, I thought that was just a really nice detail alongside Prashad sharing out one of his favourite video games. Yes. Which I support. Yeah, I get in the habit of kind of reordering the goblin name in my head to be in the syntax and when you get to that, when you're like, oh yeah, nice.

Arden, I only want to mention very briefly and just, ugh, what a dig. It's all you deserve, Arden. Be gone. Yep. Lecturing Albertson on the role of the low king. Kid you not. You're bad at it. Badly. Oh yeah Ardyn considered some books undwarfish, a terminology that told you everything about the arrogant young upstart still wet behind the helmet. Only in his 50s. A child. And then the gnomes I wanted to mention briefly because this is the biggest gnome interaction

we've had in the Disco World books before. Is it? Yeah, because we've had gnomes in the...we had We Mad Arthur who thought he was a gnome but it turned out was actually a feagle. But I went back to the Light Fantastics this afternoon, Joanna. Oh, did you, Francine? And I went back to the Forest of Scunned. You went back to the Forest of Scunned?

Rinse Wind and Two Flower hang out with Gnomes for quite a while. I apparently completely forgotten that. And I will confirm that the two representations match up incredibly. Fantastic. Considering we had a buggy swyhe of interlude. But yeah, in this, all the way back in the Forest of Scumdenlight fantastic, we've got Rincewinds in a monologue going, Red hats, he wondered whether to enlighten the Taurus too far about what life was really like when a frog was a good meal, a rabbit hole, the useful place

to shelter out of the rain, and an owl adrifting silent terror in the night. Moleskin trousers sounded quaint unless he personally had to remove them from their original owner when the vicious little sod was cornered in his burrow. As for red hats, anyone who went around a forest looking bright and conspicuous would only do so very, very briefly. He wanted to say, look, the life of gnomes and goblins is nasty, brutish and short and so are they. Fantastic. And yeah, it sounds like stuff hasn't got much better for them. Yeah, the face of slam suggested to most that the gnomes have been through the mill and kind of has a very fine grist and have been content to slip into obscurity and somehow are now drifting

into a kind of sad oblivion. But then they get hired, they get saved by capitalism, just like goblins. And then location, speaking of the Forest of Scunned, I knew it had been mentioned in Discworld before, it wasn't a new invention for this book, but I couldn't remember where we'd been there before. We might have also been there somewhere else, but yeah, like Fantastic is a place with all the talking trees. Yeah, and the description of it here is one of those places where the magic hasn't been cleaned out yet.

Not a place to go if you didn't want a wizard dropping on your head. So I assume that was meant to be an intentional reference. Literally dropped out of Tariq. Perfect. But I want to talk about as well the route they take from Ainc Wampawrk up to Uberworld. They go through Zempfus, the Paps of Scylla or Hulun Katash. And that's- Have you also had walking in Zempfus in your head this whole time? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, good. Okay. But that direction the other way is how Granny and Esk got to Wankmore Park in Equal Rights. So I was very like Leo pointing me when I saw Hulan Katash. Yeah, I went back to Equal Rights as well, just to see how the towns are doing in comparison to a few years ago. Hulan Katash, it seems like has maybe shrunk a bit but become more pleasant. So yeah, when Esk was there, the market day didn't end at sunset. Torches flared at every booth and stall and like bled force from the open doorways of the inn. And it was bigger than Zempus. And the fiddler's riddle then, it was the same inn. But it was shit then it's the place where Esk turned

the bad beer into peach brandy. And then in something horrible as she left because the landlord tried to nicked off. Oh, right. Yeah. And then Xanthus was where she I think she met the Zooms because she showed that the handful of supposed ultramarines were actually sparkles, whatever they were called. Yeah. It was described as built around one enormous square, which was a cross between a permanent exotic traffic jam and a tent village. Camels kicked mules, mules kicked horses, horses kicked camels and they all kicked

humans. Well, that would be the downsized Abbey. Yep. With its aglet road. Exactly. Jerry Bratchett's weird obsession with the bits that go on the end of shoelaces as well. I say weird obsession, he's come up like three times in the books maybe, but

still. It's weird that it's happened three times. If I had a quid. Yeah. Yeah, I like that we've- They're very important. Perhaps the shoelace, I do agree. Once they come off the shoelace becomes unmanageable.

It does. But yeah, so I love the sort of nostalgia tour vibe we have here. It is a delight. Yeah. And I love how accurate it is as well. Yes, very much so. The villainous pass, by the way, which I feel like I've always pronounced the willingness past, maybe we've managed it in the Shed Elephant.

Maybe. I saw in a Reddit thread that they were like, oh, it's probably pronounced villainous, right? Like, because it's in an uber vault. Yeah. But yeah, this is where Vimes reportedly killed 30 men and a dog. That one time. Yes, it is. Yeah. Well done him. I think it's become steeper. Yeah, it's gotten it's gotten a bit dramatic, hasn't it? I can only imagine there's a touch of the knotty ground, the- Gnarly ground. Gnarly ground. Yes.

Where, depending on how upset you are, depends on the landscape a little. Tensions are high. Tensions are high. And thus, so are the sides of the past. Well, that's why building the bridge is so difficult. But I only realised that the paps of Scylla had already turned up in Equal Rights because I was googling to check what paps mean. And then remember, we already have this conversation, means boobs. Boobs. Just a delightful reminder.

I remember you telling me that years ago. Yeah. Boobs of Scylla. Eight of them. Yeah. That's a lot of boobs. Scylla's a Greek myth, right? Quite possibly. No, she was the one that used to host Blind Date. Yeah, but before that, she was a Greek myth. She terrorised Odysseus and decided himself. Yes, quite possibly. And then went on to host Blind Date. Yeah. And has apparently passed away since, but I think she'll be back. She'll be back. She'll be back.

Mythological beings always are. Speaking of fun place names, brackets various. The whole thing just has like a meaning of life vibe, doesn't it? Yeah. I've been very conservative and just picked two that appear in quick succession, which Monksteveril and Upperfeltwhistle I particularly loved. Upperfeltwhistle is a favourite of mine. And then he never gets to see the sign for lower Feldwhistle. No, it was very sad.

I feel for him. I really do. Little bits we liked? Yes. Should we start with a bridge or two? Troll bridges. I like that this has just been a running bit across the disc world that trolls are also quite attached to having nice bridges. Of course they are. Yeah. Obviously we have the actual troll bridge story, but just lots of hints of it, trolls working on bridges. Obviously, we have the actual troll bridge story, but just lots of hints of it, trolls working on bridges. Yeah. Again, back in the light, fantastic. We have the traditional almost take on the

trope. Yes, with the goats. With the goats. Sort of. Sort of. Yes, the shiny new troll bridge. Troll railway families treated the bridges as their own, especially a bridge with toilet facilities courtesy of Harry King and enough space to raise a family. Effie had announced a best kept bridge contest for the troll bridges on the Ankhmore Pork Railway

with no fewer than 20 goats for the winner. It's perfect. It's just a really great bit of integration into this that I love. What about you? What did you like? At some point, it is mentioned that there was a fall of pianos in the fish market last week, which is, as I said, just a part of being Angmaw pork. It's a little switcheroo of usually getting a rain of fish being a fun phenomena. I'm assuming that's what that is. I thought, oh, what are the fun little omen mashups? Can you think of? My first

thought was finding a small fish in your silver locket. Oh, that's a really good one. I can't think of any now. I'm sure I had some in the back of my brain. But you build a three jolly light takeaway fish bar on Dragon Street and it doesn't explode. It doesn't explode and you're more worried of anything. Yeah, I would be concerned if it didn't explode. Nothing happens on an equinox. So listeners, please send in your ideas for a remixed omens and miscellaneous phenomena. Answers on a terrifying red star in the sky.

Yes. Or, yes, as you say, any kind ofissure amphibian that falls in an unexpected place. Very interesting. But writing clear font because otherwise I might just leave it on the floor. Or you'll talk about it later. And then we'll have all sorts of new things to worry about just like Moist and his anxiety. Very nice. Yeah, I just, Moist having this kind of anxiety, I feel like it's not new for him exactly.

He was obviously very stressed at times during going postal and making money. Um, but you just have some nice ways of putting it here. Um, at one point we get, um, right now, a cumulonimbus of worry was again, building over his head, the anvil of the gods was just waiting to drop on him. Which I thought had night maybe a nice little double meaning because obviously a cumulonimbus incus is called an anvil cloud. So maybe it's a... Is it? Yeah, cool. Yeah, it's those clouds that get so high, the top of it kind of gets sheared off like that because it hits the, what do I say, straps there?

Oh yeah. You know the kind of mean anvil clouds, yeah. I say, straps there? You know, the kind of mean animal clouds. Yeah. I'll take you on for it. Yeah. Yeah. Also, you get the bit where Moist is basically talking himself through anxiety and back into being terminally, well, not terminally for anybody else, terminally confident, which is Moist was full of little monologues chasing one another around. But afterwards, because they were his monologues, they decided that they would come together again as one whole wastebond lit big. And right in the center of hypothetical goblin of uncertainty

twisted itself into a tiny quivering mush. And then one honorable mention to the ticker tape of suspicion ticking away in Moist Skull. Excellent. There's also just another nice suspicion line when the submission floated in the air, like dust settling on the shoulders of everyone when they go into the chateau and all the dwarves are strassing. when they go into the chateau and all the dwarfs are stressing. Yeah, Pratchett does the kind of odd stale atmosphere of these dwarfs' royal, what's the word, courts, the courts basically. Yeah. Very well, doesn't he? Yeah, he handles all of it real well.

And obviously we would have a weather metaphor. A weather metaphor. What's your second little bit? This ending scene where Sam and Sybil have breakfast, I love it so, so much. And partly because obviously we're at the penultimate Discworld novel. When I read this book, I thought it was going to be the last one. I didn't know like that Shepard's Crown was going to come. I thought this was going to be like the last new Discworld book I ever read. Although at that point, I hadn't read all of them.

So I still have like new books to read. So I'm thinking there's some bits of finality. And just as like a potential like closing scene for Sam and Sybil, this very sweet bit of domesticity, there's these little moments. Sybil hearing about Bloodwyn changing her name and immediately, I must write to her. Yes. And Sam goes from, has, you know, a little bit of character break has gone from sort of bemused at the fact that his wife keeps contact with everyone to thinking it's really helpful that she keeps contact with everyone to thinking it's really helpful that she keeps contact with everyone. And then Sybil saying, you know, once everything's all calmed down and

the railway line's done, I want to go on holiday by train and go and visit. And young Sam, obviously, will love it, is mad about trains, has filled up a notebook already. Because of course young Sam is mad about trains. Of course he is. Think of all the poos he can find. Exactly. Also, again, head canon purely, but Young Sam definitely has a train set. Oh, yeah. Not Young Sam definitely also really likes the train set. Absolutely.

There will definitely be a Sam Vimes figure on the train set at some point. Which Sam Vimes will try very hard not to look. Pleased about it. Absolutely thrilled about it, yeah. every Sunday, we're like, well, I'd better go and help young Sam with his model railway in the shed hadn't I? Doting father. But also, but also, because, you know, this is how the rumpkins work, that train set is now going to last for generations because they will have made sure they've got the good train set that

will last for generations. Absolutely. And then the last bit as well of Vines in response to civil saying she wants a holiday of just, you know, I'll walk into a crime immediately if we do that. And she says, that'll be good, dear, you'll like that. Yes. Fully accepted at that point. This is their life.

I'll walk into a crime, darling. Be nice for you, won't it? So yeah, just this very sweet little thing with domesticity. It makes me very happy. You can see I adore Sam and Sybil like nothing else in the world. Yeah. Oh, they're very good. Even if she's having an affair with veterinary.

Big stuff then? Big stuff. Yeah. My big stuff is pretty unsubstantial, I'm not going to lie to you. Is it like a fog supported by golems? It is pretty much a fog supported by golems. Like that, it is The Gap, which I just thought was a fun little, not even theme running through. I feel like in another time in Deskoel's history, this would have been a more fully realized theme.

Yeah. It's more like a motif in this. Yes, a nice little motif of mind the gap, which at one point the archchancellor kind of makes the connection directly saying, perhaps we should be the ones who are minding the doors, not to mention the gap, because the future is coming down the track fast and who knows what's going to arrive next, which is not so good. And yes, the general curse throughout of the dwarves is may the gap take you. Because we haven't really seen the gap used in other Dwarf heavy books, I can only imagine this was a motif that wasn't fully realized. But I like it as this almost thing. We also we talked about the Gnomegap last week or the week before. Yeah, that's meant to be the basis of the Gap curse, isn't it?

Yeah, the abyss at the beginning and the end of the world. And worth mentioning at this point, it may come up again in a sci-fi context. Yes. And also, anyway, surprise, I'm going to use this opportunity to shoehorn in some railway facts. Yay! You're apologetic about the railway facts. I love the railway facts. So just as a tiny little background of what mind the gap is referring to, of course, curved platforms plus straight rolling stock means that you get a bit of a gap between a train

and a platform. And that is very dangerous. You can fall through it. And plus some other irregularities of various stations can cause this. The campaign for level boarding, which the UK organization wants standardized platform heights and low rolling, low floor rolling stock with retractable steps, that's like standard. This would make a big difference for disabled people in particular. Yeah, so at the moment, a lot of people with disabilities have to wait for someone to come and put a ramp down to get onto a train. And a lot of the time the ramps are very steep and a lot of times people don't come and help

when they say they're going to even if it's arranged in advance. And yeah, disabled people often have an appalling time navigating the railways in the UK. And so that's pretty cool. Like the campaign for level boarding thumbs up to them. Then this is the fun fact that I spent a while reading about instead of maybe doing proper research for the podcast. Did you know that Booth actually saved Lincoln's life? What? What? What? So while waiting on a crowded train platform in 1863 or 64, I think, Robert Lincoln, Abraham

Lincoln's son, was pushed against a train by the crowd. And as the train started to move, it kind of maneuvered him into the gap, dropping his feet into there and got stuck. And he was saved from possible serious injury or even death by the prompt actions of well known actor Edwin Booth, the brother of soon to be much better known assassin John Wilkes Booth. And anyway, Edwin Booth grabbed Robert Lincoln by the coat collar and hold him back up. Yeah, and like Edwin Booth was well known enough that Robert Lincoln was like, Oh, Edwin Booth, thank you. Amazing. I never heard of that. And it's such a, such a like, wow, weird coincidence.

Yeah. Yeah, that I'm like, how have I never heard of that? And why didn't it talk about to the point where I spent quite a long time like, is this just like something that's made up and made up its way into a few sources? But I found like a letter that apparently, Robert Lincoln wrote confirming it in 1989 in Central Magazine. Oh wow. I only had time to look at the one book of interesting letters. I don't know, maybe it's still made up.

I'm going to be busting that fact out at the pub. That's a good pub fact. Yeah, it is, isn't it? That has nothing to do at all with the book. It's got trains in it. It's got trains in it. It's fun. It's got trains in it. It's got trains in it. It's fun. It's got trains in it.

But I think, yeah, we could let's bring it back and be a bit wanky while we're at it. You could also say, of course, that the gap is kind of being closed by the railway itself. There's this gap between lifestyle and people on the disc, this part of the disc. And now they're all being brought closer together. Yeah, in quite a narrative fashion. Do you want to rescue me? I love how much pain you look like you're in when you try and say anything literary. Well, it's more that when I say something literary that I don't believe just to make

a halfway attempt at a segue. The gorge is a gap, of course. The gorge is a gap. The gorge that we must fly across on fog supported by goleorge is a gap, of course. The gorge is a gap. The gorge that we must fly across on fog supported by golems is a gap. The gorge is a gap. The gap of the gorge. The golems have plugged the gap. How do you remember? Oh, you've frozen.

No. Oh no, sorry. I got my brain shut down for a sec there. I might have. I completely stopped moving. What the fuck? I'm so tired, Francie. Oh my God.

You better do your talking point before you like go... I was trying to think of a segue and apparently Joana.exe stopped working. It happens to the segue. I'm going to have to leave that bit in as well. Which makes it even better. Perfect. Stories, stories. This is very story shaped. Story, Terry Pratchett, like stories his whole life with stories. I've got around freezing by just stealing some of Mark Burroughs wonderful live show, The Magic of Terry Pratchett. Where am I?

Flashbacks to the Discworld convention. No, it's a bit of a cop out to do as a talking point. Isn't this story wonderfully story shaped? But it is one of the best things Pratchett does. He knows the rhythms of narrative so well that he hits these wonderful story beats. He knows how a story should go and he uses that. Much like stocks on the railway. Much like stocks on a railway car. We're going to be distracted next month when we're talking about Shepherd's Crown, so I wanted to make sure I got into a, isn't this wonderfully story shaped one last time.

One last time, like we're not going to have a whole episode about it. Like we're not going to have a whole episode about it. Especially considering the way Rob put it, the miraculous nature of this book. Yes. So you have this great moment fairly early on where Moist is thinking about all these things that have to happen for the railway to work. The whole business relied on fairly simple things being done properly at the precise time in the right ways. You have the coal and the water crimes. And, you know, this is during one of his inner monologue anxiety spirals. Everything had to be someone's responsibility and these tasks seemed to moist like a great big pyramid whose every stone had to be laid in place before one wheel turned, which feels very story building to me. This

idea of you cannot just write a story, everything has to fall into place in some way, even if it doesn't seem obvious at the beginning. There will be coal bunkers that need to be filled and be water cranes in a metaphorical sense. I'd let that get away from me. Samuelson Yeah, no. Sorry, I looked a bit blank there, but it's because that took me, the way you described that took me back to, I was just rereading a little bit of Equal Rights, obviously, particularly that bit in the Inware-esque turns beer into a brandy in the fine tradition of Jesus. That was his second act actually, but everyone was too hungover to write about it. But when she was talking about magic and how

she's learning how to build a spell, she's saying with the skills she was beginning to accept but couldn't understand, she found she could take the taste apart into little coloured shapes, little shapes that you didn't need, went back into the great pool of shapes and then you found the extra ones you needed and put them together and then there was a sort of hook thing, narrative hook, which meant that they would turn anything suitable into something just like them and then I'm saying that Terry Pratchett is actually a witch and builds stories like spells. Or that literally any paragraph in any Discworld novel we can somehow say is really about writing stories.

We certainly can reference anything with anything else at this point. We are basically really inaccurate indices. Yeah, really inaccurate indices. I'll go and group name. It's like if you're on index in a book, but every entry was like, Oh, fuck something about stories. Brackets T3, question mark. Is this even the right book? Question mark and brackets. That is this podcast. I'm so proud of the five years of work we've done, Francie. It's fine. It's fine. It's on record. That's the only time I said that without horror in my voice. So you have like little moments of, of course, things are here like the crates of chickens on the train, because of course, there are crates of chickens that you've got to maneuver around at some point.

Yeah, just as they were on the barge. Just as they were on the barge. That was a barge full of chickens, I think. Possibly turkeys. Yeah, those chickens. full of chickens, I think. Possibly turkeys. Yeah, those chickens. That was foul either way. And then most promising to get over the bridge. And we trust it purely there is no doubt in the reader's mind at any point that the train is going to get over the bridge completely safely. Iron Gutter is going to fly through the fog, because it's most fumbit big. And he's asking trust for this. He sort of makes these promises about magic

that's not really magic. He's telling that, you know, don't worry about your sliding rule. We know he's not using the wizards. And as far as because we would have had a scene with him and Rick Cully if he was using the wizards. We know he's not using the witches as far as we know, we've not met them. And I'd be really scared to see Moist and Nanny Org in the same room. I don't want to think about that, slash I really want to think about that. Was that anywhere on your AO3 list? No, but maybe I'll have to put it there myself. Casananda and Moist von Litvig, I bet would have a very anecdote-filled evening. They would. But then you get this great moment where Fime says to Litvig, kind of what the

reader is thinking in this, which is, you've got a rickety bridge, a heavy train, a terrifying drop to certain death below with a pressing deadline and no backup plan. You're in your element. Yes. And again, it's a story that's very cinematic. I like putting out the cinematic bits in this, but that is a conversation that happens in the movie before the impossible thing happens.

And you get Mois' very winning smile at that point. Yeah. Little ting. Absolutely little ting. before the impossible thing happens. And you get Mois' very winning smile at that point. Yeah. Little ting. Absolutely little ting. And then you have the dancing on the train and later the fighting on the train. Because perhaps it knew the most important thing

with writing a book about trains, which is if you put a train in a book, at some point there will have to be a fight on top of the train. Of course. There is no way you could have the train and not have a fight on top of the train. There is no way you could have the train and not have a fight on top of the train. I really think that is a core part of narrative physics. You've got to have a fight on top of the train at some point. Otherwise, it's just silly. Why would

you put a train in if you're not going to have a fight on top of it? Practically that, obviously. I think the reader can guess that that's probably going to happen. We've got this rushed race to Uberworld and the train's getting attached. Especially once Vyhams gets on board. Especially once Vyhams is on board, ready to rip his shirt off at a moment's notice, apparently. Like, oh, oh, no, not time yet. The thing is Moist knows it too.

Of course. He's always wanted to give it a go. He's wanted to give it a go from the moment he saw the trains and realized what the power of the trains could be. When he gets a chance, he sneaks up there at night and he dances on the train, listening to the train's rhythm, moving his body to accommodate it, feeling the engine and the mood of the railway. It was a venison, a gift. It was a thing that could be courted, but it couldn't allow too much familiarity. When Vimes later on says, look, we're probably going to end up fighting on the roof of the train. You're

going to be up there with us if you want to be. Amos is like, yeah, I really want to do that. I've wanted to do it since I've seen my first train. Vimes is like, yeah, I know. I feel like Vimes is yeah, I know. It's not just obviously you want to is yeah, we're going to fight on a train. I love the train fight. It's just the thing that absolutely has to happen in this book. By comparison, the actual climax of the story does fall quite flat because this whole battle happens off screen and the happy ending is so inevitable. But then, Fime's kind of calls Moist out, you know, Moist says, I expected, you know, more of a glorious battle that would become the stuff of legend. And

Vimes says, that's a really stupid thing to say. You know, people have died. They weren't necessarily good people, and there weren't a lot of them, but people have died. And the face you wear in a battlefield should be a solemn one until the time when things are cleaned up in the real world drips its way in. That is gorgeous line. Yes, it is. It's also kind of, it's kind of the way final battles happen in practice. Yeah.

But Monstrous Regiment was the same, wasn't it? There was a lot of violence and a lot of action, but when it came to the final push, it was done off screen. Yeah. And it was done without a lot of bloodshed. Yeah. So I, yeah, I think it's kind of the point that we don't see some big glorious final battle, we arrive and it is settled because our glorious final battle was on top of a train.

I think the reason it falls a bit flat for me where the others don't is that it doesn't have its usual three endings. Yeah, it is. We don't have that little extra epilogue. But yeah, we get the salmon zibble soup, we get moist going home and the conversation with veterinary but yeah, we don't get more fallout in the minds that I think we could have done with like an extra scene there or more of the banquet. But it does sound like this had this book was like a lot longer and was edited

down and yeah, and that's sort of why the story is what we've got. Yeah. And that's what I want to why I want to talk about it because you know, we talked about this book being a miracle. It was hard to write. Obviously, the editing has been, you know, a ton of work where it maybe wasn't so much in the other Pratchett books. But for all that, we do end up with not just a perfectly story-shaped story but such a Pratchett story. I think it's beyond miraculous that we get to have this book at all. This last moment with Moist, later when he came to think about it, Moist

thought that was, well, on the whole a good deal. After all, he had danced on the speeding locomotive and that was living. Better than a medal. Much better than a medal. For a man like Moist. Francine, have you got an obscure reference video for me? I do. It's just a, it's kind of a tangent of a reference to be honest, because it's just, they referenced a place called Cranberry, spelled C-R-A-M-B-U-R-Y.

Yeah. And I said, that's oddly spelled, where's that? And there's a few different places, but one of them, Cranberry Park, is a stately home and country estate in Winchester, in England. At one point it was Sir Isaac Newton's estate, which is nice. But going back earlier still, one of the first tenants of the estate was a Roger Coram and he rented it from the Lord of the Manor of Murdon, who was Sir Thomas Clark. And I mention these people because we've talked in the past about this kind of concept of noblesse oblige

and we've talked about it particularly in snuff and in the Tiffany books and how basically if you're going to be lord of the manor, you'd better not be a dick out about it. To really simplify the concept. How loyalty goes both ways basically. How you're obliged to be noble. You are obliged to be noble I'm afraid if you are going to be. A nob. afraid if you are going to be a no. Yeah. So this is an incident that's recorded of a dispute between Coram and Clark regarding the rights of the tenants and the Lord of the Manor. So back in the day, this is like the late 1500s, early 1600s, maybe when tenants were called on to perform work on the estate and say things like hedging or reaping and haymaking. Instead of giving them like a day's wages, you might give them basically a good day's food and

like a party in the evening. Right. And so this is like an old fashioned way of doing it but it was still pretty common. And like a well liked thing really. It's like, yeah, we're all kind of all kind of, you know, chipping into our estate here and we get a lovely party. It's like helping your mate move and getting cheats from fear, except it's compulsory. But this Sir Thomas Clark was a bit skinned, I think, and was trying to skimp on the whole thing. And he was trying to get his tenants to work for like, wormy, grueled kind of thing. And Mr. Coram of Cranbury, who was like the primary tenant, had to intervene. And they had a real argument. And it was this whole drama. But eventually, and this is reallyized here, but this is like from the

Wikipedia article. Mr. Pies, Thomas Clarke's steward and Coram drew their daggers and rode at each other through the wheat. Very romantic. But and then the next sentence, at last Lady Clarke promised to dress for them two or three hogs of bacon. What happened between those two sentences? I really, I need to know. two or three hogs of bacon, what happened between those two sentences? I need to know. I know. Anyway, yeah, just this is just a random mistake. And it has just this really long, interesting history. And I have to wonder, as you always do in practice, picks a place name, you're like, was that on purpose?

He did know fucking everything, I think. Quite possibly. Anyway, bit of fun. For the sake of everyone's sanity, our listeners mostly, that's everything we're going to say about raising steam. We tried, we're very sorry. We will be back next month with The Shepherd's Crown. We'll both try and get a good night's sleep before that one.

We will not be this sleep deprived for The Shepherd's Crown because I will have found my manuscript in my hand, so I might be a bit more functional. Heads up for listeners. Obviously, the Shepard's Crown episodes are going to contain Shepard's Crown spoilers. It would be really difficult otherwise, but sorry guys. I know full well we've got a good few people listening who haven't read it before. I know a lot of people feel weird about reading it, but if you've come this far, if you've got here, I am going to encourage all of you to read along with us. Let's step off that cliff. We will have chapters and things, so if you want to just read along like a section per

episode, we'll make sure all that's available. It'll all be on our socials. Our first episode on The Shepherds' Crown will be coming out on the 18th of November, and we have some bonus content coming in the meantime. We're going to be talking about the spin-off books, Mrs. Brangel's Railway Hamburg and The World of Pooh and all of that jazz. We're not delaying for emotional reasons. It's also logistic, loggy sticks. The other thing is that because I usually read what's going to be the next book in the week off between podcasts, I cannot read The Shepherd's Crown next week while finishing my book. So I

was going to just binge it on the Sunday after I'd handed my book in and I'd rather not. Yeah. I think let's preserve your sanity. And I swear to God, I'm not even going to promise I'm not going to cry while we record those episodes. I might. Yeah, it's fine. I'm not even going to promise I'm not going to cry while we record those episodes. I might. Yeah, it's fine. I might have an emotion. You can emote on the podcast if you like. I'll just bleep it all out. It'll sound very odd. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, Joanna's voice is cracking a little bit there.

Bleep that and act like she said something incredibly offensive. Perfect. Really, really sweary Shepard's Crown coverage. Until next month, dear listeners, you can join our Discord. There's a link down below. You can follow us on Instagram at the true show, make you frat. Follow us on Twitter and blue sky at make you frat pod. Follow us on Facebook at the true show, make you frat. Join us on our subreddit r slash TTSNYF. Email us your thoughts, queries, castles, snacks and mashed up omens and bright red stars, thetrueshownmakeyfratpod at gmail.com and if you want to support us financially you can go to patreon.com forward slash thetrueshownmakeyfrat and exchange your hard-earned pennies for all sorts of bonus nonsense. And until next time, dear listeners, what little

thing will change the world because the little tinkers carried on tinkering. How soon do you think they came up with the bicycle belt? Like immediately. I bet Carrot had something to do with it. I bet he did. Oh, won't Carrot have a nice time on a bicycle? Oh, Carrot will have a lovely time. I bet Carrot will wear those really tiny shorts as well. Yeah, and Angra will like disapprove on principle, but it'll be Carrot in tiny shorts. Yeah. Yeah. And it'll be like, that there'd be a paragraph about how,

you know, there's almost nobody on earth who can make riding around on a bicycle with a basket on it look masculine, but Captain Carrotman and all that. Oh, and he's got like a badge on the basket. He's carrying around like a lost cat he found. Sickening. Disgusting. Beautiful.

Delightful.