The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - 154: The Shepherd’s Crown Pt 1 (An Echoing Phrase)

Episode Date: November 18, 2024

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan and Francine Carrel, read and recap every book from Sir Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series in chronological order. This week, Part 1 of our recap of “The Shepherd’s Crown”. Threes! Bees! Mephistopheles!   Find us on the internet:Twitter: @MakeYeFretPodInstagram: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretFacebook: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: [e-mail] Patreon: www.patreon.com/thetruthshallmakeyefretDiscord: https://discord.gg/PHNb8M5HbVWant to follow your hosts and their internet doings? Follow Joanna on twitter @joannahagan and follow Francine @francibambi  Things we blathered on about:Terry Pratchett's final Discworld novel races to No 1 in book charts - The GuardianThe Shropshire Witches Podcast - RSS.com Mephistopheles - Wikipedia Tiffany Aching's Guide to Being a Witch – an interview with Rhianna Pratchett and Gabrielle Kent - The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret Bedfordshire clanger - Wikipedia  Music: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.com

I have done plenty, if by plenty you mean being mostly semi-conscious on the sofa. So I finished playing Dragon Age Veilguard. Well, I finished my first playthrough of Dragon Age Veilguard. I've started a second one. And yeah, it's definitely a video game. Not as happy with it as you thought it would be? You can kind of see behind the curtain where there were dev issues, like although it's been 10 years since the last game, this was actually kind of rushed and made in about three, three and a half years.

Because they, EA were pushing it to be like this big live service online multiplayer thing. And it took BioWare, I think the first seven of those 10 years to convince EA that this should not be a big online multiplayer thing. There were people who were made redundant at various points through the dev cycle. You can really tell there was a sort of big scandal, I think, the word. There was a bit of an outcry. I think early last year, possibly even late the year before, because a bunch of Bioware writers technically weren't made redundant so much as their contracts weren't renewed. Okay.

And you can tell this game is kind of missing some writing. Like, it's not badly written. It's just lacking, like it feels like there needs to be more, like more conversations, more little bits, that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. So like from a role play aspect, it's still a really good story. It's a really good game. There's just stuff like with the ending, you kind of want there to be a bit more

epilogue resolutiony stuff. Yeah. And like normally be okay, well, that's, it kind of sucks that it's not there, but hopefully there'll be a DLC. But if all these writers got made redundant and also Bioware have said, there's not going to be any DLC because everyone's going over to Mass Effect now. Yeah. To work on the new Mass Effect game, which is being made in Unreal 5 and we're retiring the Frostbite engine that we use for this game. Like, there's not going to be any DLC. No. So, it's good.

Like, I'm still really excited to have had another Dragon Age game after 10 years. Yeah. And I still really enjoyed it. I just wish there was like a bit more of it. Do you know where the other writers have gone? They're working on different stuff. Like I follow a few of them on Blue Sky. I've been on Blue Sky a ton more recently.

Yeah, it's good, right? Yeah. Do I even follow you on Blue Sky? The only downside is like, you must of them on Blue Sky. I've been on Blue Sky a ton more recently. Yeah, it's good, right? Yeah, the only downside is like, you must follow me on Blue Sky. I would hope you follow me on Blue Sky. It's very weird though, because like I still have Twitter and I'm occasionally opening it and like 90% of my Twitter feed that isn't, you know, Nazis or bots or advertisements for weird shit is people talking about how they're leaving for Blue Sky. And then like 90% of my Blue Sky feed is people being kind of smug about being on Blue Sky. Oh, yeah, I followed a bunch of folklore people, so mine's nice now. Yeah, I have followed a few folklore people. Oh, there's one person I started following. Oh, I was in the middle of posting on BluSky when I started recording and now I'm on Apple mode. So I started following someone who has a podcast called the Shropshire Witches all about Shropshire folklore. So

we're going to get really into that at some point. I've got a book on Shropshire folklore if you want it. I've still got a book on Somerset folklore I need to read that I picked up when I was down there last year. Nice. I like buying little folklore books. Whether I get around to reading them in one hit or not is another question entirely. They're very good train books, I feel.

The problem I have with something like, say, the legends and folklore of Somerset book I bought, if I buy a book on folklore and it is a small book, which this is, and I know full well that it's not really a book so much as a gateway drug. Yeah. And that it will have lots of things, but not tons of context for lots of things. And so then I will feel like I need to buy more books about the folklore of Somerset to give me deeper context into these smaller things I've learned from this small book.

So it's a bit risky me opening it. Anyway, do you want to make a podcast? Yeah, let's make a podcast. At least you're feeling too shit to be emotional maybe. Let's find out. Yeah, let's make a podcast. At least you're feeling too shit to be emotional maybe. Let's find out. Yeah, I don't know if there's anything left in me to be honest. Right. That's a horrible way to start this episode. Hello and welcome to the True Shall Make You Fret, a podcast in which we are reading and

recapping every book from Terry Pratchett's Discord series, at a time in chronological order. I'm Joanna Hagan. And I'm Francine Carroll. And this is part one of our discussion of The Shepherd's Crown. Yes, it is. The last one. Yes, it is. Yeah, no, I'm not having emotions. We're not doing it. No one spoilers before we crack on. This is the final Discworld novel, The Shepherd's Crown. Hopefully you have

come on the journey with us. This episode is obviously going to contain spoilers for The Shepherd's Crown, but if you are reading along, then we are only going to be discussing the first six chapters of the book and there will be no spoilers for the second two thirds. So you dear listener can still be on the journey with us. NARES Rushing back and forth between Blanka and the Chalk on a broomstick that's not quite fast enough for the job. I don't have anything to follow up on from the last book. I did have a bit from the discord that I just wanted to mention, which is that Nerys went down a rabbit hole of people accused of witchcraft in

Scotland and found a very nearly magrant that the quote is, before her death Bane seems to have denounced multiple women, Christine Artclay, Jonat Davidson, Jonat Lucas and Mara Gratt Ogg, and it's Ogg was one too. But Mara Gratt Ogg is a accused witch from God knows where in Scotland. Heather-Light, Francine, would you like to introduce us to the book The Shepherd's Crown? Yeah. So The Shepherd's Crown is the 41st and final Discworld novel. It was released in August 2015, a few months after Terry Pratchett died. It was read immediately in a pub by three avid fans, each of whom went out for a cigarette when they reached a certain part of the book. Now, I stopped mentioning every time a Discworld novel did well in the book charts. It became a matter of course, but let's have one last admiring statistical moment. The Shepard Crown sold 52,846

copies in its first three days. Propelling it to the top of the chart with over double the sales of Jeffrey Archer's also ran operating. Snuff, incidentally, sold even faster with 54,687 copies sold in the three days and it was one of the fastest selling books since records began, Snuff. Which I suppose also means Shepherd's Crown probably is because it's only a couple thousand below. Well, we're at it. As of 2023, there have been more than 100 million Pratchett books sold in total, which I imagine we mentioned somewhere near the beginning, although it wouldn't have been in 2023 staticals. The Shepherds' Crown went on to win the 2016 Locust Award for Young Adult Books and the 2016 Dragon Award for Best Young Adult slash Middle Grade Novel. And it is a book that despite all these great sales and it had fantastic reviews, great reception, has not been read by a significant chunk of avid Discworld fans. Yeah.

And that is because people like to think, well, people like to know there is a Discworld book left that they haven't read. And we know some of you are among them listeners and are reading this for the first time. Yeah, we are hoping you're finally cracking the book because it's a book and it deserves to be read and it's a good book. And also because if you're listening to us now and you haven't read the book, it's been a while since I've insisted this, but for god's sake, stop the podcast and read the book and then come back or read the first six chapters. Don't let this be the first thing you hear of it. Don't do it that way. Surely nobody is that insane. I really hope not. I have a very fond memory of the three friends in the pub

reading it for the first time. Because it did not occur to us to save this book, so we'd have one last Discworld book. We went and bought it on the day it came out and then went together and sat down and read it. Yes, the idea I think as we talked about right near the beginning has always been a little baffling to me. I've come to understand it a bit more over the last five years, I suppose. I do understand it a bit more, but I do feel like if you're never going to read The Shepherd's Crown, there's still going to never be another Discworld book. So you might as well read it and have read all of them. I'm such a completionist, I think. But yeah, that was a fond memory, partly because we learned everyone's reading speeds very quickly in that one,

because I got to an upsetting moment and had to go outside for a moment, so neither of you would see me react. And then I came in and sat down and then you reached the upsetting moment, made eye contact with me. The two of us went outside so the third person wouldn't see us react and then came in and sat back down. And then the third person got to an upsetting moment and went, Oh, right. Okay. That's what you're doing. I thought you two were being weird. But yeah, no, I genuinely I like this book. I it's well, we've been saying this a lot as we get to the last few Discworld books. It's been a while since I read it. Because we've been doing this podcast for five years, Francine.

Yeah, I've now done a reread of the Discworld books, All in Order. Well, actually, I haven't finished this one yet, but like, I've never done that before. I don't think I've ever quite managed a full reread before. I think I've done like almost full rereads, but skipped odd ones here and there. And yeah, now we've done that, All in Order, plus some other stuff. We've missed our fifth anniversary by a couple of weeks, I think, or at least a week.

We mentioned it when we had our... Yes. Something, something. 200? No, 150. Yes. But yeah, hitting five years and as we hit the Shepherds Crown is, is meaningful. It's wonderful. It's meaningful. Yeah. We should have posted something on our fifth anniversary, shouldn't we? Nevermind. Not here for regrets, I'm here for fun reminisces.

It's on theme, we've forgotten it almost every year. Yeah. Why should this year be any different? Let's pretend it's a bit. Yeah, no, it's a bit now. We'll never post on our anniversary and I won't read Gormunghast. Or will you?

Or will I? Right, yeah. Shall I tell us what happened then? Yes. Okay. Again, if you have not read this book, but you have decided to listen to this anyway, stop it. Yes. I feel like we've given plenty of warning for all of you insane people who I hope don't take this. Yeah. I don't want anyone to find out this way. I'm bad at delivering bad news.

You are. Every bad news I got from you has been via text. Maybe we should just text the listeners. To be fair, would you have wanted it any other way? Oh, no, no. In my case, that's the correct way to deliver bad news. Okay, right. So in this section, which again, well, I say chapters one through six, obviously, there is a prologue as well. First, a little life in the deep becomes the shepherd's crown. In chapter one, Tiffany flies over the downs and checks on the standing stones, well guarded

as they are by the Fiegls, before visiting the calder. Meanwhile, at Swivel's mansion, Jeffrey turns down the hunt and takes his leave, listening to the winds whispers of Lanka. In Lanka, Granny assists the lumberjack before realising something about tomorrow. In chapter 2, Granny has cleaned the cottage. She tells the bees, works with Willow and bathes in the stream. She goes to bed in her best dress, a familiar card in her hand. And a familiar figure on a white horse comes for her.

Her candle will flicker and there are many, many ripples across the world. Granny Weatherwax died, guys. Can we just like... All right, we've had a moment to process. In chapter three, Tiffany delivers triplets and you arrives as the fecal deliver a message. Tiffany flies to Lanka, finds Nanny, learns of her inheritance and the pair do what needs to be done. In the morning, spreads and plans are made, while Peas Blossom has ideas in the parasite world. The forest sings, Ridcully arrives and offers Tiffany friendship. Respects are paid throughout the day as a wake gives way to witches and Tiffany is put forward. The bees agree. In chapter 5, the Queen of the Elves holds court and a goblin prisoner tells tales of

a changed world. The fae ride out. Tiffany, back in the chalk, gets a gateway warning and a crown from her father and reads a letter full of The Fae ride out. Tiffany, back in the chalk, gets a gateway warning and a crown from her father, and reads a letter full of new words from Preston. In chapter six, Jeffrey is coming into Lanka and Mephistopheles is showing off. The wind keeps blowing. Tiffany juggles her steadings and Nanny Org suggests assistance. Tiffany visits Miss Tick to ask about taking on help and Miss Tick promises a word or two and earwigs ear.

ask about taking on help and Miss Tick promises a word or two in earwigs ear. Very good. Talking of triplets, I feel like maybe I should mention now because I don't think we've got it elsewhere, liking the little triplet motif. Yes. Threes. Threes, little threes. Threes and trios. Yeah.

Back to the old fairy tales, three sons, the third one doing something exciting. Three children. Yeah. We've got the triplets and the third one, baby Tiffany is going to probably do something exciting. And the goat, Mephistopheles is the third goat. There we go. Mephistopheles is definitely the third goat.

If ever there was a goat that was third, it's Mephistopheles. Brackets approving. Jeffrey, Mephistopheles and little Tiffany. There we go. All three. All three threes. There we go. All three. All three threes. There we go. Right. Sorry. Helicopter and loincloth watch. Obviously. For helicopter, Ridcully's wobbling broomstick.

Fantastic. For loincloth, in honor of the loss we've all experienced. Granny's least mended pair of drawers. Lastly. It's what she would have wanted, Francie. It's absolutely not, but fair enough. Yeah, no, just a heads up to listeners, we are obviously going to talk about granny weather wax in much more detail, but we can do that later in the episode so we

don't have all the emotion up front. Yeah, yeah, we're kind of loading all of the heavy bits right at the end there. So. So we can all end on a depressing note for you. Yeah. Yeah. That's what you want from us, I am assuming. I believe so.

Quotes. Do you want to go first? Yours is first. Suddenly there was a humming in the air, and the bees were there too. They flowed out of Granny Weatherwax's hive, circling Tiffany like a halo, crowning her. And swarm and girls stood on the threshold of the cottage, and Tiffany reached out her arms and the bees settled along them and welcomed her home. And after that, on that terrible day when a farewell was said to the witch of witches, there was no more argument, as Tiffany aching became in all eyes the witch to follow. God, that's a good moment.

Just the, yeah, just the, one of many Pratchett moments that are beautiful bee scenes. Yeah. One of the other ones we've had was also with Tiffany dancing with the bees in Hat Full of Sky. Now we have it again. They already know her. They're friends. You get the bees on your side. Oh, yeah. No one's going to argue with a swarm of bees. What will be the point? And it's dangerous. Exactly. I personally would never argue with a swarm of bees. No.

Partly because of respect and partly because of the stinging. Yeah. Partly because I really like honey. Yeah, mine is just a couple pages later. She was cleaning things already clean, but the algebra of mourning required the effort of getting all the death out of the house. There's a lot of really good writing about grief and stuff in this. There's one of the things that Pratchett does amazingly well, but the Algebra of Mourning

is an incredible line. Yeah, I feel like I should say something more effective than yeah, but I can't. No, that's cool. Just agree with me. Nice. I agree with you. Yay. Yeah, don't challenge me on things today. I'm not well enough to argue my points. Don't argue with a swarm of bees or Joanna with a fever. Yep, there's the one. Characters then, should we start with Tiffany? Let's start with Tiffany. Poor Tiffany.

God, let her sleep. Let the woman sleep. This poor girl is exhausted and I'm very concerned for her. I know. Pratchett does. This is a running theme throughout Pratchett's books, I must say, that main characters do not get enough sleep. Yeah. I worry about it every time I read a Vimes book. The only one I don't really worry about it with is Moist Von Lippe, because that dude runs on literally nothing. Yeah. He should sleep more.

He should sleep more, but I'm not concerned for him. No. I really want Tiffany to sleep. Yeah. But yeah, she copes pretty well with everything, I think. I mean, she's obviously coped with a lot already. But her mentor and as it turns out, predecessor, disappearing, I think she copes particularly well with. Something I really like about this is a structural thing in the book, but also a big structural disquiet thing. This idea of Granny Weatherwax passing away and Tiffany being the book, but also like a big structural discord thing. This idea of Granny Weatherwax

passing away and Tiffany being the successor, being the inciting incident in this book and not the concluding incident, I think is wonderful. It's not like coming at the end of a big final battle or something, but also thinking about it as the cyclical thing of made-a-mother-crown. cyclical thing of maiden mother crone. And so this idea of this non existent leadership role, not going to the next literally senior witch but going round back to the maiden. CHARLEYY Oh, so nanny ogs being bumped up to the crone issue. CHARLEYY I don't even know I feel like the maiden mother crone thing is because it's become less about the trios like the maiden mother crone thing kind of stopped after Carpe Jugulum. Yes. And now you have lots of witches who are maidens, lots of witches who are mothers, and lots of witches who are crones. And Eywig, who would never accept being called a

crone, but he isn't really the other two, is she? No. But the fact that you have a witch like Tiffany, who is currently obviously in the kind of maidenish role, but you can see her going through mother to crone. Yeah, yeah. Even if she doesn't have children, you can see. But she's, she's mothering only works because I'm using it in this particular context, but she's caring. She cares for the sheep, she cares for the land, she nurtures. Yeah. Like, obviously, I absolutely loathe the idea of someone having children as their happy ending, because it gets overused in fiction about women. Like, obviously, I absolutely loathe the idea of someone having children as their happy ending because it gets overused in fiction about women. Yeah, but never in a Pratchett book, actually, so easy.

Yeah, Pratchett doesn't do it. So yeah, I like this as a thing. Yeah, I mean, Granny Aking was as much a mother to her land and sheep as she was to her actual children. Not to say she neglected the children, just that that was her role and that was as important. Exactly. So yeah, I like this idea of, again, leadership role that even though there isn't a leader of the witches, obviously, and now the leader of the witches isn't Tiffany. But the idea of it going from crone to maiden and going back around again. And there's a nice line Nanny gets,

you're the one who's to deal with the future and being young means you've got a lot of future. Yeah, I mean, it's very much granny, you know, planting the acorn that you'll never get to sit under the tree, isn't it? It's why would you replace yourself with somebody who's going to be gone in 20 years, when this place needs someone who can become the bones? Exactly. Like it wouldn't make sense to pass it on to someone like Nanny. Who wouldn't want it anyway. Who wouldn't want it anyway and whose power lies entirely in not being the most powerful one.

Yes, and not being isolated in the middle of a forest. Yeah, I've done this PowerPoint presentation. We don't need it again. What's it called when you get the same song but a bit more at the end? Refrain. Refrain. Thank you. Yes, PowerPoint refrain. bit more at the end. Rephrain? Rephrain, thank you. Yes, PowerPoint refrain. But yeah, on the Tiffany exhausted bit, one moment I noticed, which I kind of loved in

how relatable it was, is when Tiffany's gone home to her parents and she's been juggling both steadings. And obviously she's grieving granny still and Tiffany dropped her spoon. It was all right to sob in this familiar kitchen like she had when she was a girl. And there is something about specifically dropping a spoon and crying. Yeah. Yeah. Also, I love to- You don't have enough energy for spoons and emotions.

Yeah, no. I'm really relatable right now. Also still continue to love Tiffany's supportive parents. Yeah. Who think they slept thinking of their Tiffany, a Skylark among the sparrows. Big fan of the A-kings. Yeah. She's dealing well with Wentworth as well, as a little brother who might want to run away to the railway instead of tend to the sheep.

Yeah. And again, the impact of the railway on the land, which by the way, because obviously we see the fairies and the meeting the goblin and of the lake the swath and everything later, when we were speculating about what effect the railway would have on somewhere like Lancor in Raising Steam, I completely forgot that was ever mentioned in this book. We were not spoiling the shepherd's crown. Anymore Tiffany thoughts? Not for now. I think it kind of weaves in with everything else, doesn't it? Yeah. Jeannie, the Kelder, I want to talk about quickly. Coming into her own.

I really like that the rivalry aspect between her and Tiffany is completely gone now. And it's a relationship between equals. Yeah, a relationship between equals where one is clearly quite concerned about the other. Yeah. I mean, Jeannie is no longer, if we want to take it back to Maiden Mother Crone and why not, at one point they were both in the Maiden figure, they were the hero ascending, whereas now Genie is very much settled in her role as the queenda of the Fiegels and she's had a million children which very much roots her in. Tiffany is absolutely no threat to her and in fact is somebody she likes very much and respects and wants to have a nap.

And Tiffany is comfortable enough in the relationship that she knows there are things that the Keldr knows more about than her and is willing to go to her and say, hey, you're up on the stones. What's the vibe? What's the vibe this week? Yeah. Also just while we're talking about Jeannie, I like the fact that we meet some teenage Fiegls. Oh, yeah. With their pants showing. I really like her cadence of speech as well. It's very lyrical and there's some of the flipping around the sentences again and yeah, very distinctive. I like it. Yeah, it's not written in the same parody Scots as the rest of the Fiegls, but you very

much hear it in that kind of very sweet lyrical Scottish accent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's a little more ethereal. Yeah, I'd say maybe she's a bit Edinburgh where the rest are slightly more Glaswegian on a night out. Yeah, yeah. Scottish listeners in my best Scottish accent, tell us how you read the various Fiegel accents. Yes, tell Joanna off for lazy stereotypes. Yes. Then Geoffrey, new character, love Geoffrey.

Yes, he's immediately endearing. Yes. I am just delighted that we have like such a solid new character considering this is like the last book and it would not feel out of place to not meet anyone new and be just hanging out with familiar friends. I don't feel like not being with the people that we already know and care about and being with Jeffrey instead is in any way like frustrating. Like I want to be there. I want to know what he's up to. I want to know what my firstopheles is doing. Love my firstopheles. And he's a very new, new character as well, isn't he? He's not an iteration of anyone in particular. He's got hints of brother to him, but not really. Yeah. Yeah. He's practiced, obviously, always had this talent for introducing somebody and within a page or two, you care very

deeply about them. I think also just as a setting up a character, the fact that the swivel mansion is in the Shires, means we, thanks to Snuff, we already know who Lord Swivel is. We know the kind of people who have a estate in the Shires. Like we've met plenty of them in Snuff. We can guess that this guy's going to be a bit of a dick. Yeah, yeah. And then he is. And then he is. And the being the spare son, the third son, and being the bookish one is such a storybook thing. The academic or the priest other. The guy who thinks a bit more before crossing the river. Yes. While we're with Jeffrey, I just want to mention McTavish, the stable lad. Oh, yeah.

He was as old as the hills, but somehow still was known as a lad. Very much a thing apparently. I remember being a little bit offended on the stable girls at the farm's behalf because they are 30 plus. They're all respectively girls. Some people are lads, some people are girls, and it's just not an age thing. But yeah, the whole hunting scene obviously is heartbreaking. And it's heartbreaking, but also Jeffrey having this moment of all at once he had the amazing feeling that things could be made right and I could do it.

And then him standing up for himself and immediately, it's not like a long, slow cycle of being pushed to breaking point. It is one event and him going, absolutely not. Goodbye. Very politely. I think we could have had a long, slow cycle and it would have been engaging, but we don't have time in this book. We don't have time in this book. And practice still manages to make it effective. Also, I really like on Mephistopheles' name, books can teach you much if only to give you a good name for a devilish goat. Yes, Mephistopheles of course is a demon from Faust, and has since become, as is Wikipedia,

a stock character appearing in other works of art and popular culture. But yeah, it's basically the etymology of something like of the darkness doesn't like light kind of thing. Yeah. It seems like a nice little goat. I am a big fan. He's my favorite goat so far this book. Yeah, goat keeping is obviously was a Pratchett hobby. Yes. Yeah, let's say hobby. Not a lifestyle entirely. But it doesn't make me want goats. I know I can't have goats. You can't have goats, Francine.

Jack very rarely puts his foot down when I suggest something. There are a few things I'm not allowed. Ant farms, goats. Yeah. Something else, I can't remember. Yeah. You don't want to be milking goats. I don't. I don't really, no. I'd love a goat, but I also know I should not have goats. Tiffany O'King's Guide to Being a Witch, I'm assuming if some of our listeners are

reading the Shepherd's Crown for the first time, they might also then go pick up that for the first time. But there's lots of goat stuff in there and Rihanna Pratchett did say when we interviewed her and Gabrielle Kent, like, yes, that's from personal experience because we had them and I had to go and help. Yeah, that's a good point actually. Reminder for any listeners who did skip that one for spoiler reasons, there is an interview with Rihanna and Gabrielle, which is nice.

It was a very lovely conversation. And yes, one of the things Rihanna recommended for showing dominance in a goat over goats is to bite their ears. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Just in case any listeners... I think maybe I'm just not as tough as Rihanna Pratchett, and that's why I should... I don't have put it.

I don't think I could bite a goat's ear. I've never been in that situation, but I don't know if when push came to shove, I could bite the goat. No, bite the horizon, yes, of course, every day. I live by the mantra. Bite the goat. But bite the goat? I'm iffy there. I am iffy. Miss Tick. Miss Tick. I love that she has not changed.

Yeah, why would she? No, she shouldn't. She is exactly perfect as she is. And of course, she has erked that she's been copied and swimming clubs are now opening up and she's not getting ducked in ponds anymore. Yes. So, no, of course I hate this blah blah, but you know,

people took it seriously. Yeah. Stop doing this. Yes, why have I learned all of these bleeding knots and undoing the knots and the way of the snorkel if I'm not going to get drowned over all of it. Yes, delightful. And I like that she is so normal about Tiffany saying she needs help. It course you do, you have two steadings. Yes, you need apprentices, girls to do other stuff.

Yeah, I think Mystic, although she is put across as a little bit irritating sometimes, is maybe one of the more realistic witches. She travels all the time, she sees all this stuff. She isn't embroiled in the local drama of the Lanker Witches I'm imagining. No. Yeah so yeah there's not going to be as much like judgy. And she is I think quite specifically irked by Mrs Ewig I think they come they they come witchcraft from even more opposite directions than arguably like Granny Weatherwax and Nanny Og do from Mrs Ewig. But there's enough similarities to make it real. Yeah, because they are both teachers. Mrs. Iwig very much sees herself as a

teacher, but they are such different flavours of teacher. Yeah, they're both bookish, but one of them has big old grimoires, and one of them has useful thumbed through books with margin notes. Yeah. And it's just aggressively practical in every single way. This is what happens if you send them to Quam Ladies College, you get aggressively practical witches. And that's what we need. I'm not saying formal education is the only way to go when it comes to

witchcraft, but I do think that Mystic has the advantage there. It does. Do we have another witch educated in that school? I mean, no, arguably Susan, not a witch, but more than a, it has some witchiness to her. Yeah, no, I think Susan's another good example. Just basically I was thinking of like the practical foundation that helps you deal with the power. Yeah.

I mean, you could say that Sybil has her own type of power to deal with, that is helped along by the Querms Ladies College. Oh yeah, I mean, you could say that Sybil has her own type of power to deal with, that is helped along by the Quirms Ladies College. Oh yeah, I mean, Sybil is definitely powerful. And could have been a witch if she'd had a slightly different upbringing. Absolutely. And if there were more witches on the Shires, I think this is something I'm concerned about. There don't seem to be many Shire witches. Well, no, this was the problem, wasn't it? Because Letitia was still...

Letitia was a Shire girl, wasn't she? She might have been. More towards that way, I think. Yeah. She wasn't up in the hills anyway. I think, yeah, basically, something about sea level, it's no good. Yeah, can't grow a good witch at sea level. That's what I always say. It's almost never relevant. Literally never. I've really got to stop throwing that into conversations. I said it in a job interview. They looked

at me really weirdly. I'm lying. I haven't had a job interview. Nanny Og is here. Nanny Og is here and isn't she wonderful? She is absolutely wonderful. And I think we'll talk more about Granny Weatherworks, as I said, but I do think one of the hardest parts of reading Granny Weatherworks passing away is Nanny Og looking so upset. You know, that that thing where like you don't cry until someone else cries and then you cry? Yeah. Like I can't do nanny og being upset.

No, I think I started crying when Tiffany was flying back. Oh, I think I proper cried at death unsettling the horse. Oh yeah. Oh, and then the horse. Oh, yeah. Oh, and then the card. Anyway, no, we're jumping ahead. Sorry. Yeah. But yeah, Naniog, I think if this had been an earlier Desquale book, we might

have been able to spend a little more time with her in this, which would have been nice. But, yeah, I would have liked some more stuff like from her point of view. Yeah. But because we've kind of moved away from it being from those three witches perspective, I think, yeah. But she's also she's Tiffany's biggest support. And I thought it was really interesting. Like this relationship to Magrat because Magrat feels granny with her. She's one of the people

who feels granny with the wax passing away. But Nanny assumes that she will need to be told. Yeah, still. Because she underestimates her. But she treats Tiffany like an equal, which is something she never did with Magrat. Yeah, you have to wonder how the Magrat thing went quite so poisoned. I think it was because it was too much of just the three of them together. Yeah. And so you do slip into things, whereas Tiffany's always been like a little bit

apart. Yes. Yes. And mainly the times she's seen her recently have been when she'd been very impressive. Yeah, like she just did that whole hair thing. And of course she started, you know, Tiffany was a girl, really a girl, when Nanny Og started working with her. And we don't know how old Magritte was when she met the other two. No, we kind of speculated it was like late teens, early twenties in sort of weird systems And she must have grown up in the area. And yeah, I don't know. Yeah. But Tiffany's... The whole bit where Tiff is being given just a little bit of friendly advice from Nanny just reminds me of Wintersmith and when Nanny was like the practical help during

Tiffany's very impractical situation. It's like, ah, so things grow when you put your feet down. Right. Well, that's happened. It was. Yeah. Ham sandwiches. Ah, yes.

Ham sandwiches. Many ham sandwiches. Um, and then of course we have, we have the elves. They're back. They're back. Right. Remind me, Peas Blossom. Yep.

Came up quite a lot in, I want to say Carpe Jugulum, was it? No, there weren't elves in Carpe Jugulum. Not Carpe Jugulum, the other one, Lords and Ladies? Lords and Ladies, yeah. So we know, I know we know Peas Blossom. Yeah, and we've heard that as well. Yes. So we know him as a duke or a general or something like that.

A lord. Yeah, yeah. Well, a a lord. They're lords and ladies. You can be both. Not a duke. Maybe. I don't know. But you can be a general. Yeah, let's not try and learn about heraldry and different titles now. The time for that is past. The time for that has definitely passed. But yeah, he's always been obedient and going along. Heraldry would be awful, wouldn't it? Because we've seen how they don't have a sense of humor or anything. They'd try and like, reconstruct human aristocratic heraldry and just do a shit job of it somehow. Like it would be it would make no sense. Like it would be like if an AI tried to

make a heraldic structure. like it would be like if an AI tried to make a heraldic structure. Yes, and there's also a ton of weird like, uh, etiquette rules around it of how you agree each different one. Yeah, yeah. And in what order. Elvish, Elvish Heraldry. Okay, we don't have time to go through this right now, but I want to head Canonus. Let's, let's get back to that one day.

We will go back to that one day. So yes, we've, we've met, uh, Peas, we've met peas blossom and some of these other like Lord type elves before. Because I think it's cobs that we're plotting in. And I'll mention now if peas blossom, cobs were mustard seed, three of the four fairies that stand on Queen Titania and A Midsummer Night's Dream. The other one's moth. Moth.

Which I know, because I forgot it again the other day. And it was a clibornoni connect. I was like, fuck fuck, this always fucking comes up and I can never remember. I forgot it the other day and had to Google it. Not for any reason. I was just reading this and was like, I should know this. I know this play. I've seen this play probably more than any other Shakespeare play. But yeah, I think the creeping horror of peas blossom plotting and these little vignettes is very, this is the, our shadowy room vignette for this book. Yes. Although I didn't end on-

Shimmery room. It seems. Yes, shimmery room with feathers and what have you. I really like the bit where the goblin us is the word iron and the outfits change, like say, the Queen's dress changed colour from silver gossamer to blood red velvet. A blonde ringlet's turned into straight raven-like locks. Her courtiers followed suit as the pastel silks and lace made way for leather breeches, scarlet sashes and scraps of fur over wool covered torsos. Like oh we're all cross now we're going to revert to tight.

Yes. And this idea we've not seen before of the goblins having a pre-existing relationship with the elves and having kind of dealt with them before, I guess, because they were both sort of these fringe existence things and goblins do, in a sense, come from the storybooks the way elves do. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So yeah, having just that extra bit of world building there and the way of the Lathar Swarf is like, ah, see, I kind of like the old days still. So, you know, I'm on your guy's side. Yeah, it's very, it's very practical thing, isn't it to take like once, you know, that proper

people are multi-dimensional. You can have a bad guy goblin, they're not all going to be good. Yeah, you don't suddenly have like every, actually no, that was I was about to say you don't suddenly have like every golem is perfect, but every golem is perfect. Every golem is perfect, unfortunately, yeah. But like, yeah, not everyone's going to be of the tier of the mushroom. Yeah. Like, yes. I've delayed this for a little fuck. But he's a delightful little fuck. Yeah. Like, yes. I've delayed the swarf with that little fuck. But he's a delightful little fuck. Oh, yes, yeah. And I do feel like the, oh, some of us still kind of like the old ways was more

of a mislead than anything else. Yeah. Yeah. Also, if you've ever had a swarf get in your hand, you know, it's quite the threat to throw it at a load of people who were very allergic to iron. I've never had a handful of swarf personally. Not a handful of swarf, but just a little like little metal shavings. You must have had some. Yeah. No, no, you don't want that. And I'm not even allergic to iron.

No. That we know of. That we know of. Nobody's ever actually thrown a horseshoe at you to find out. I have been on trains. You work with cast iron pans, you'd have found out by now. Oh, yeah, no, that's a good point. out that I have been on train you work with cast iron pants you'd have found out by now oh yeah no that's a good point um but still please just as a general rule don't throw horseshoes at me no I think everyone's a bit allergic to that specifically yeah actually no I have a horseshoe that I handle on a regular basis because I've got a little um no there's no way to describe it

one-legged horse no um because because my dad was very into horse racing. He bought at like a charity auction thing, this horse shoe that belonged to a very successful race horse. And I have it on display in my drinkers cabinet. Who is the very successful race horse? You're talking like someone who has an NDA. I think it's Red Rum. Oh.

But the sticker that has the name on is kind of weird and stuck together, so I can't see the name properly. Oh no. Oh, you need to get one of those archaeologists with the scanners. Quite possibly, or just except I've got a cool horseshoe. Yeah, that's pretty good too. Yeah, but yeah, there's no way to say display. I was trying to say like display horseshoe and I was like, that sounds... It doesn't sound right, does it? I've considered nailing it over the door a couple of times, but as I rent.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it seems disrespectful to use one of those, what do you call them? The stick-on ones. Yeah, card strips. Yeah. To put up a horseshoe. It feels like it negates the rustic good luck of the thing. Exactly.

Well, that's why I feel like it's best served being in my drinks cabinet. Yeah. Because if there's ever a place I need luck, it's mixing a martini. Yeah. And the most important thing, of course, if elves get in the house is that they don't take your drink cabinet. That is what I would be worried about if elves got into my house. What would you try and say if elves came into your house, Francie? Oh, God, I don't know. I suppose I'd have to get Echo a studded collar or something.

If this became a possibility. I reckon your dog could take down an elf. Oh, I don't know. She's real soppy. Oh yeah. But she has like barked viciously at one or two things. Um, there was the other day, I don't think I told you, there was a huge, huge dog, like one of these big mastiff things.

Yeah. As bounding towards us with no lead. Oh. And it wasn't recalled, you know what fucking people are like. But I could tell it was in a good mood and it was trotting over to us happily enough. And it was an old it had like a gray muzzle and things. And it's like, Oh, you're probably fine. But I think even so a huge dog bounding towards you, I obviously tensed up. And I'm not sure if it was echo seeing that, or just the fact that there was this very large dog bounding towards us because she loves dogs. She'd never met a dog she didn't like before. But for the first time I did hear her properly get the fuck away from us barking and it just turned about, ran away again. I was like, well done Echo, my 20 kilogram dog. CHARLEYY Yeah. The thing is though, your dog is a little bit eldritch and are you sure she's not an elf? Yes.

Have you thrown a horseshoe at her? No. Okay. But she has been in the stables. Oh yeah. No, I don't think she's an elf. She's not very evil. There is that.

She's very sweet. Yeah. She's not. I think if you've ever got to worry about an animal it's usually going to be a cat isn't it? Is that also all the cats of the day world? Yeah that is true. Yeah yeah no she's a good little girl but she might be slightly eldritch but just not in that direction. Yeah no different flavor of eldritch. Little bits we liked. Little bits we liked. I rather like the Lesion of Pilotus or Pylotus, which is a footnote LBL, which is obviously

an Icarus iteration. The legend of Pilotus and his son Langus, who wanted to fly like the birds, was known by every well-educated boy. They did indeed build themselves wings by sewing together feathers and sizzle down. The boy at least flew a little way, but his elderly and portly father crashed. The moral of the story is, understand what you are doing before you do it. I think we've definitely heard of Langhast before, haven't we?

We have. We've also had, I think anytime there's a reference to the Icarus myth, Pratchett makes up a little discworld equivalent of the Icarus myth. So this is not the first I'd have to go back through all the books to find all the various Icarus myths, but Pratchett, this isn't the first one he's done. Listeners, if you can remember answers on a pair of wax wings, please. Make sure they don't go to you near the sun on the way.

While we're here as well, I thought, can I have us I've snuck another one in in a special mention to HSE granny. HSE in the UK for international listeners is the health and safety executive, something like that. But granny getting cross at the idea of the overseer thing, I would like to do some nasty things to the overseer for not keeping an eye on these lads and don't you let that man tell your boy to get up until I do. If he does, tell him that Granny Weatherwax will be after him for using these young men who don't really know how to climb trees. Train your arborists properly, says Granny. And I agree. MS. Yes. Train your arborists, listeners. All of you that have arborists.

MS. Don't you go climbing without your climbing qualification. I agree. Yes, that is an important one. And I do like granny being stern. How about you? Is it an echoing phrase of one of those days that runs through... Nice rhyme. Thank you. I think there's more of it through the whole book, but in this section. So we have the opening of chapter one, it was one of those days that you put away and remember, which is a lovely line and it's such a lovely description as well of the time of year and the kind of wind

that's blowing and it is that kind of day that you put in your pocket. Yeah, I can flip back through my head and find a few of those. Yeah. It's not like a day where something particularly good happens. It's just a day that the weather is exactly what you want. Yeah, yeah. And it's settled on the landscape properly. Yes. And you get to enjoy it. And then you have the end of chapter one, which is granny and tomorrow was going to be a much better day. And then chapter two opening. Yeah. And then chapter two opening was it was was a bright, sunny day, thought Granny Weatherwax, a perfect day in fact. And you, this was a different

day you sensed, a day not yet experienced, a day that bustled if there had never been another one. And yeah, I just, I love this as a refrain running through it. And then you have in chapter four, when burying Granny, it had been a nice day for it, if there was ever such a thing as a good day to die, a good day to be buried. So yeah, there's something about this, the good days, the important days, the days. Yeah, the day surrounding the event. Yeah. And this sort of the way it gives a bigger picture look at

it. I don't know, I think it's a really wonderful way to echo. It is. Yeah, it feels like, yeah, you're embedding the events within a larger thing, which is B day, which sounds funny, doesn't it? But no, I think it's a really wonderful turn of phrase. And I like saying it through the book. What about you? Mine's almost a weather. Well, yeah, weatherish metaphor, astrological, astronomical, sorry. There were a series of half sleeps as the light of the moon filtered into the room.

And every time she looked up, there was you, the cat, asleep at the foot of granny's bed, curled up like a little white moon herself. That's always just a gorgeous bit of visual description. There is something wonderful about the way that cats and dogs curl up into little sleep circles. We used to have two cats, one of whom was blue, blue-grey, and one was cream.

And they used to curl up almost like yin and yang sometimes. Aww, I like that. Cats make good circles. Not a spoiler for the rest of the book, but just we are going to get some good liminal shit and I'm very excited to talk about it. We like the liminal. I've seen there was a reason you didn't pick liminal as your quote. I'm saving it because I'm going to be talking about the liminal later. But just just be reassured listeners, it's gonna get liminal. God, I made that sound much more threatening than I intended to.

I know I liked it. It was sinister. It was good. How about some Shakespearean references, Joanna? Yeah, this is a very little one that is mostly me setting up because I'm going to do this a lot more through the rest of the book. There's tons of Shakespeare references in this book and lots of throwaway lines. And I think it's a really nice full circle moment to Weird Sisters, which is obviously a direct Macbeth parody. The fact that this isn't specifically parodying a Shakespeare story, but there's just all these little things in it. It delights me.

The witches get a lot of Shakespearean moments, don't they? They do. They are the Shakespearean faction. They are the Shakespearean faction, which makes a lot of sense considering what Shakespeare liked to write about, including that whole thing with the weird sisters, the three witches. And weirdly enough, not so much steam trains here. Yeah, it's so weird that Shakespeare never wrote about steam trains. But soft, what light through yonder window breaks and why is it coming towards me

so fucking quickly? Did you? Oh no. Light at the end of the tunnel was a train. That's a practical one, isn't it? Yeah, I think that might have been. Anyways, I've just picked one for this section, which is, alas poor Granny, I knew her well from Big Yan to which someone else immediately replies, no you didn't.

I feel like the gonagull should have stuck up from her. Yeah. I mean, it was a good turn of phrase. So that brings us to the big one. Let's talk about Granny Weatherworks. All right. Yeah, let's. Cool.

What about it? I somehow, when I first read this, even though the dedication is for Esmeralda Weatherworks, mind how you go, it did not occur to me that Granny would die until I read Granny Dying. I don't remember that well. I don't. I just remember it being, I don't know, a shock when I read it. It's not like a shocking moment, but I remember it hitting me in the book in a way that I had obviously not guessed from that dedication. So I thought it was just Pratchett saying goodbye to one of his favourite characters. Well, Pratchett, yeah, Pratchett doesn't kill off main characters. No, he doesn't.

And killing off isn't the right word for this, but he doesn't. Yeah, you don't, well, mort, I suppose, but that was not, not the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you can't imagine vines or granny or any of them. Yeah. Benari or yeah. Moist. Yeah. But we have it here. And yet. And yet, of course, you know, it's, I think, even Nanny Og didn't expect it, but at the same time must have known it would happen one day. I think, you know, Granny Weatherwax gave us so many false, false starts with this. Yeah, I mean, you have the moment in Carpe Juculam where you think she's gone until you realize

that she's Weatherwaxed the vampires. Yeah, she's Weatherwaxed the vampires. Or bees. Which is abroad, where she's surrounded by all the mirrors and she just goes... Equal rights where she's... where she realizes the need for I Ate and Dead. Yes. Found by Lillesque. Yeah, you want... this connects back to a lot of the older Witches books, doesn't it?

It does, yeah. I expect it's partly because we're at the end of the series and I'm just thinking about it more. But throughout this book, I've been, the first section of the book, I've been making connections to other things we've talked about and other bits we've read. But yeah, so I'll start with a fun one. The jug in the basin, obviously Nanny has been promised the pink jug in the basin. Yep. And in Equal Rights, we do get a mention of the jug and the basin. A cyclone of magic swirled around the room, this is when Granny is using the power of the staff to separate Esk from Eagle. Picking up dust and briefly giving it some very disturbing shapes. The jug and basin on the washstand with a particularly fetching rosebud pattern broke into fragments. But

then afterwards she noticed that the jargon basin were back intact. There had been some kind of magical pretend breakage. I'm sure and again I didn't get it out but I'd have to pull it out to remember but I'm sure Nanny mentions the jargon basin set as well. I thought so. In Lords and Ladies with the Bees situation. I thought so too. But this was the book I had open. I was going to control Basin through all of them. This was my five minutes before podcasting one where I went, hang on, what about that Basin? The rest of them I did look properly. And so rocking

back to the start of the book with Geoffrey, this has some obvious parallels. When Geoffrey saw a witch flying overhead on a stick following the hawk, a little bit of prayer as well, very nice, and he pointed up and said, I want one of those, I want to be a witch. But the old man said, it's not for thee, boy. Everyone knows men can't be witches. Why not? asked Geoffrey. The old man shrugged and said, nobody knows. And Geoffrey said, it's not for the boy. Everyone knows men can't be witches. Why not? asked Jeffrey. The old man shrugged and said, nobody knows. And Jeffrey said, I want to know. And obviously massive full acts of equal rights,

with Esk not being given wizardry and nobody really approving. And there's lots of quotes I could have picked. Granny saying, whoever heard of a female wizard? There's witches, said the Smith. And enchantresses too, I've heard witches is a different thing altogether. Snap granny where the wax is magic out of the ground, not out of the sky. And men never could get the hang of it. As for enchantresses, she added, they're no better than they should be.

Are we putting Mrs. Ewig in the enchantress blanket? I think so. I think she is no better than she should be. Absolutely. Also, I don't think I wrote this one down, but another small one is that the triple distilled peach brandy, which is mentioned in this book, is also what Esk turned the old bad ale in. In Zempfos. In Zempfos, yeah. Which we talked about in Raising Steam.

It is indeed, yeah. So it's a nice, I feel like a nice little tie back. I don't remember seeing it apart from there and in, not even in Raising Steam, in Bradshaw's handbook. Yes, quite possibly. Yeah. And then another slightly bigger one is when the forest sings for Granny Weatherwax after she's buried. Tiffany saw a fox sidle up, bow and run away because a wild boar had

arrived with its family of piglets. There was a badger and creature after creature settled down near the grave and sat there as if they were domestic pets. That immediately reminded me of your few seen weird sisters of our first All Three Witches book, where the land is trying to jostle the witches into action. CHARLEYY And all of the creatures are sitting at the bottom of Granny Weatherwax's garden. NICOLA Exactly, there's a contingent of bears crouched with a platoon of deer beside them, occupying the metaphorical stalls, a rattle of rabbits, weasels, vermin, fadgers, foxes and miscellaneous creatures who weren't actually

attacking each other for once. And Granny said that, I don't know what this spell is, but I'll tell you this for nothing, when it wears off, some of you little buggers had better get moving. I'm just going to use this to squeeze in a joke I hadn't mentioned earlier, which is the bit where Granny's thinking about her garden and the reputation that it has. And so there is no need for a fence because everyone's too scared of a herb patch and then the sort of brackets, which is a really good story to tell if you're also really bad at building fences. Yes. Oh, yeah, we didn't go through the herbs still.

No, sorry, I completely forgot to note anything about the herbs, but there is a wonderful list of herbs. There is a wonderful list of herbs. There is a nice list of herbs. Maybe we'll read it out after the outro. Quite possibly. We like lists of herbs. We like lists of herbs. And there were some that have been mentioned before as well, Pert is somewhat consistent with his nonsense list, which is nice. Yes. Those were the main ones I found anyway, but just generally, it's impossible not to compare

this with the other witches books more so than the other, you know, what you broadly call Tiffany books, because this is a Tiffany book, but it's a witch book. It's a crossover in the same way, perhaps that Raising Steam was a moist vines crossover. Sarah- Is that moist vines ripping your shirt off on top of a train, Frances? Frances- Yeah, that was the whole plot, wasn't it? And it's because I had to go back and read a few passages of the old ones to get to get these as well. It's some, it's been a nice little trip down memory lane. I have like a list of which ones because you know, I have just got books that I normally sort of reread probably every year that because we've been doing the podcast, I haven't we've been doing this for five years so there are books that like I've only read once in five years and it's been very weird like Monstrous Regiment and Nightwatch and Hogfather and stuff I have got a little list of I'm just gonna go

reread these for fun and nothing else which I'm sure will end up probably turning into podcast episodes next year. What have you got? Weird Sisters which is a broad Lords and Ladies which sort of think of as a trilogy, I'm really excited to pick up and reread. Yeah, I was going to reread the Witches arc after this. I think finishing on Shepard's Crown makes me want to reread those three the most. It's got to be, hasn't it? Yeah, it's like when you finish a long series and then you go back and watch the first few

minutes of the first episode to see how much everyone's changed, except because it's Pratchett. I'll go back, see how much everyone's changed and then you go back and watch like the first few minutes of the first episode just see how much everyone's changed except because it's Pratchett I'll go back see how much everyone's changed and then keep reading. Yeah, very much so. Yeah, speaking of this being like more of a witches book than a Tiffany book, cover wise it's all very Tiffany book and I really like that this is the one arc of the Discworld books where Paul Kidby did like matching covers for each one so they're all like Tiffany standing surrounded by what's all

sitting all it's Tiffany front and center in a way you don't get with the other ones and I really love it yeah because I love his depiction of Tiffany as well yeah you get to see I get a little older yes um so I like that as a detail but yeah connecting back to previous books you also have all the references with uh like all the different reactions. And for the guy who wrote No One Is Truly Gone are the ripples in the world. And then to see these ripples in real time and see this reaction sequence and this sequence of short little paragraphs was in the little black book that you got as part of the memorial. Which I felt really bad for people at the memorial because there must have

been a lot of people who had not read The Shepherd's Crown, picked up that book and read The Grunny Weatherwag's dying sequence. Well, I feel like, you know, I've said it from the start, so there's no point trying to be nice about it now. I feel like perhaps it would have called them all silly buggers for not reading it. So very true. But yeah, so you have Magwra realizing as I mentioned, the Whoopi cushions dolefully sighing at boffos. Agnes- 21 Whoopi cushion salute, very fool's guild. Yeah. Well, Perdita realizing before Agnes. Yeah, Agnes knows something's well, Perdita realising before Agnes. fordita.org

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fordita.org fordita.org fordita.org fordita.org fordita.org fordita.org fordita.org fordita.org Ponder knowing what's important at that point, which is to tell red colour. Oh, on Agnes, by the way, I also just quite like that when she turns up at the wake, Tiffany goes, oh, I'm going to go on with her. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Agnes is, if she'd been five years younger, she would have been her and Perdita's, they'd have been a trio.

Agnes, Tiffany and Petulia. Petul would have been her and Petita's they've been a trio Agnes Tiffany and Petulia Petulia sorry not pretty yes. Yes Yeah, but like we've talked about before I think that I yeah, we love reading these kind of Montages it's very much wallowing is sitting in our feelings reading them. But um There's one like this in a Robin Hood book that But there's one like this in a Robin Hood book that when Fitz gets some bad news, basically, and everybody else feels it. And I love montages like this in a very, yeah, everyone else cry with me way. Yeah.

So you have Escarina hold the hand of her son and new sorrow. That happened to a really cry. Yeah. The bit that will never not make me cry, which is the far away in someplace unthinkable, a white horse was being unsettled by a figure with a scythe with it must be said, some sorrow. And then Ridcully stared at his bedroom wall and cried again and then sent for Ponderstibbins and he's looking at his old letters

and then he shares a drink with Nanny and I really like that he turns up and absolutely no fuss. He's very good to Tiffany and not patronizing. No, he wants him to go and see granny but accepts it when they say, look, she buried already. Go stand in the forest. Go stand in the forest, really. And his toast of, his Esmeralda Weatherwax and lost futures, may we all go round again. That whole bit actually about, alas, our dreams came true. It was very clever. Yes. about, alas, our dreams came true. It was very clever. I thought, you know, going back to death briefly, actually, another comparison I was looking at with some of the older books was granny's

moments with death, compared to Ipsil, Ipsil being the sorcerer's father. But my notes here are comparison to Ipsil, brackets, rude, want to live in a staff, and Drumbillet, brackets, less rude, but quite regretful, goes to live in a tree. But yeah, if only I could do something, there is no going back. There is no going back, said the deep heavy voice, like the closing of crypt doors. And then, come away my son, there's nothing I can do. Life is for the living anyway, you've given her your staff, not a strong billet. And then granny, is there any other way? No, there isn't, I'm afraid. And then the mice speak about floating in the wings

of time. And I think death definitely has more time to comfort granny almost, though you left the world much better than you found it. He has so much respect for her. Yeah. And, shall we go? Madam, we've already gone. It's very deep in her. Yeah. That was such a moment. And for Granny, who gave so many people good deaths, death did the same for her. Yeah. That conversation more than any other felt like Death getting to have a conversation with an equal. Yeah, yeah. I mean, who else apart from some of his companions like Alfred or Mork has seen as much of what Death does and not railed against him for it?

I kept thinking back to the card game with death, which I think is broad because they're traveling and it's the cow and the baby. Yeah, and all I have is one. So yeah, I thought that was really beautiful. There was a few moments in the buildup and aftermath of Granny Weatherwick's dying that hit me like a truck. Which ones particularly? Well, I think it's when you realize what's happening and what granny is preparing for

and it's when she goes and tells the bees, which I don't think I would have noticed on first read, but obviously because we've talked about this so much and telling the bees is such an important thing. She says, I was younger when I last danced with you, but I'm old now, there will be no more dances for me. And the bees dance for her. And they gently push her mind out of the hive. Yeah, the bees know what's going on. Yeah. It's like, no, come on, this could be a time you could accidentally get lost and now's

not the time to be missing an appointment. Because I am me, I would not be me if I didn't bring this up during what's obviously a very serious emotional conversation. When she bathes in the stream and she washes more than just bits as and when they become available. Yeah, she makes them all available and then walks home dressed in a cloak. And it is, it is, it's, it's, it's the beauty of the witches knowing they are going to die because she gets to do that for herself. She gets to undress and wash in a way that, you know, loved ones might usually. Yeah, she gets to do the things that need to be done in what feels like the important way for her.

As opposed to like mistreatment, she was going to die and did what needed to be done by doing what was important to her, which was to have a really good funeral. Yeah. It's felt like she's always felt it's a bit distasteful to be tied to a corporeal form. Well, yeah. But in this moment, she's like, right, okay, no denying it now. Let's honor the body one more time. And you've done a pretty good job there. tied to a corporeal form. But in this moment, she's like, right, okay, no denying it now, let's honor the body one more time. And you've done a pretty good job there.

Ange 1 And speaking of that death conversation as well, she says in the conversation, again, just granny being granny to the last, I was never one for pushing myself forward or complaining. And Nanny says something later on about granny never want to push herself forward. And there's a great footnote about she didn't need to she sort of moved through the world like the prow of a ship. Yeah. Oh, we do like women and ship metaphors. Oh, yeah. So she's an HMS granny as well as an HSE granny. Yeah. Very nice. Yeah. And then, yeah, the bit that if I haven't cried at this point, then I'll start crying is the I is probably dead card, which I think for most people and having Paul Kibbe having

done the little illustration of it. Yeah. It's, again, it's not, I can't remember which book I'm thinking of now, but she had a note that is basically saying, I didn't do something about it at some point, didn't she? No, it was Lords of Ladies. They think she's dead and they go and find the box. That's it. And they find the I ate and dead card in the box and Nanny goes, hang on. Yeah.

You ate and dead. You ate and dead. But yeah, I mean, again, we've talked about this already. Patrick writes very good grief. You were talking about Tiffany trying to get there really quickly. I thought it was one of the best. Like, if I get there faster, the bad thing that has already happened won't have happened. Yeah.

But she can't stop the grey mist from filling her head. No. Yeah. But this idea of writing a good death, and I'm not going to be weird and gross and presumptuous and morbid and say, oh, Patrick was imagining how he wanted to die or something, because it would be really weird to assume that. But I think I feel like there must be something really satisfying in having a character that you've, you know, written for so long, and who is so beloved and getting to write them a really good death. Yeah, absolutely.

And not a good death as in they've done something really heroic, but just getting to... Yeah, you get to end their story and it's got nothing to do with pushing a plot along or... Yeah. Whatever. I mean, you know, obviously it's slightly instigating in this case, but it's, it's, yeah, to do with I have written you a hell of an arc and here is a way you can go properly. Yeah, and peacefully and with respect. a hell of an arc and here is a way you can go. Hopefully. Yeah, and peacefully and with respect. So obviously we are very, very sad that Groany Weatherwax is gone and that we're on the last

Discworld book. But I think if one of your major characters is going to die, this is the way to do it. In 41 books, he's so earned the right to just give this character this really good death. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And we've talked a lot about how Pratchett handles death generally and how it's never very rarely done meaninglessly. No. And it's just that, yeah.

Any more thoughts? Any more thoughts? I don't know. Yeah, I feel like I must have more thoughts, but they're not being vocalized very well. Granny is a, yeah, it's reading it is very, very sad. Reading it, I will cry every time while reading it, but I'm not getting as emotional now as I thought I would just talking about it. And I think that's because granny is, it's very static in my personal universe. Yeah, obviously, I can just go back and read granny again.

But I think granny as entity has made up a large part of my brain. It's very ripples in the world. Yeah. And you know, there's no this would have been the last time we saw granny anyway. And I think you're right. It wrapped up nicely. I don't think it's it would have been different if it was vines perhaps because the vines to die now would have been different if it was vines, perhaps because the vines to die now would have been early. He would have been dying too soon for his time and it would have been leaving behind a young child. And whereas for someone like granny, similarly as it was to Miss Treason, there's always something more to do. Like, no, it's not time yet. I've got, but forever. That will be the case.

Yeah. I think it's just, it's really beautifully done. Yeah. And of course, there is a witch trying to make away with an entire chicken in her knickers. Which is what Granny would have wanted. I believe that is the case. I mean, it's very weird to transition from this. But Francine, have you got an obscure reference for Neil for me? Yeah. And it's to do with food. So it's all right. We've got a segue. Speaking of weird snacks.

Whole chickens in knicker legs. Yeah. So Miss Tick at one point settled down under the tree to have her snap bread and dripping and I just thought I'd look up origin of the word snap. A snap is of course your dinner, your lunch, and it comes from an old mining term. So miners used to take a tin box down into the mines with their food in it and the sound of the tin snapping open and shut led to the meal itself being referred to as snap. Ah, love that. I like that too. What we didn't, we didn't mention one one in Raising Steam, which they mentioned one of these Cornish pasties

that has the savoury and the sweet in it. Which was a thing? It's a Devonshire Clanger. I only know about this because of, I think it's Devonshire. It's a something place named Clanger. And I only know about this because of Bake Off. It was a challenge a few years ago. Oh, right.

The pastry where you have the savoury at one end and the sweet at the other. Yeah. Appalls me. It really does. I just, I feel like there's too much risk of ending up with gravy in your rhubarb and custard. Separate pastries. Yeah.

I think if we've learned anything today, it's that. Keep your past tree separate. I think that's everything we're going to say about the first six chapters of The Shepherd's Crown. We will be back this time next week with the next episode, which is part two and starts in chapter seven and ends at the end of chapter 13. Inclusive. In the meantime, dear listeners, you can of course join our Discord. There's a link down below. You can follow us on Instagram at TheTreeShallMakeYouFefrat on Twitter and BlueSky at Makeefratpod on Facebook at the TrueShallowMakeefrat or join our subreddit rslash TTSMYF.

Email us your thoughts, queries, castles, snacks and wax wings, the true shallowmakeefratpod at gmail.com. And if you want to support us financially, you can go to patreon.com forward slash the true shallowmakeefrat and exchange your hard earned pennies for all sorts of bonus nonsense. And until next time, dear listeners, don't let us detain you. Plums. Ginny come nether. Dwell about. Tickle my fancy root. Jump in the basin. Jack go to bed and never get up. Daisy upsy daisy. Old man root. Love lies oozing. Jack by the moonlight. Maidens respite.