The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - 31: Eric Pt.3 (Not a Sandwich, But)

Episode Date: September 21, 2020

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan-Young and Francine Carrel, read and recap every book from Sir Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series in chronological order. This week, Part 3 of our recap of “Eric”. Junk bowls! Twiglets and Boursin! Douglas Adams! Formulate! (The very thing!)Find us on the internet:Twitter: @MakeYeFretPodInstagram: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretFacebook: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: [e-mail] to follow your hosts and their internet doings? Follow Joanna on twitter @joannahagan and follow Francine @francibambi Things we blathered on about:JK Rowling's new book sparks fresh transgender rights row - CNN Rhianna Pratchett’s tweet about The Watch showrunner’s post Arthur Conan Doyle’s estate sues Netflix for giving Sherlock Holmes too many feelings - The VergeThe Etymologicon: A Circular Stroll through the Hidden Connections of the English LanguagePersephone :: Queen of the Underworld - Greek MythologyOrpheus - Greek MythologyQuote by Douglas Adams: “Another thing that got forgotten …” - GoodreadsJoanna’s necklace - InstagramBlack Books - Franʼs New Work - YouTubeCosmogonist - definition of cosmogonist by The Free DictionaryJoanna’s social media (for Inktober poetry reasons): Instagram (@joannamercutio)Twitter (@joannahagan)

Let me just adjust my levels. Levels, levels. Is that better? You'll have to say something like, JK Rowling is a knob and an angry voice again. JK Rowling's a knob. Yeah, that's better. One thing that's causing me irrational rage

that wasn't on Twitter is I've decided I really like well-meaning, sensible suggestions that actually work. Oh. Well, like, you know, all those little tips to meet your life a bit better and things like how doing yoga every day actually helps. And that's really fucking irritating. Yeah.

And like staying hydrated. And my latest one is like the whole thing of, oh, you'll feel so set up for the day if you make your bed every morning. And I've been doing it and I feel really set up for the day. And for some reason that irks me. Yeah, I managed it for a full six months

when I started being self-employed. And yeah, it absolutely does. And although it's correlation, definitely not causation. My kind of descent into slight depression and madness was around the same time I stopped bothering with that. So. Yeah, it's, I did just, you know, I function better.

It's a thing, it starts my day off. And I hate that it works. Yeah. So that's my irrational rage for the day. Now onto a rational rage. Rational rage. JK Rowling's a knob. Yeah.

So you, you muted the word JK Rowling because sanity. Yeah. Oh, filtered, sorry. Yeah, I filtered it. When the stuff, when I stand with my forest of things started I kind of followed along for a bit and then I stopped. And then when her statement came out and everyone was fucking talking about it,

it was like just so overwhelming to see the existence of a huge chunk of the population debated as if they're not human beings. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't very on Twitter at that point. So I wasn't. Yeah, I was super. I mean, I'm not on Twitter as much at the moment.

And when I am, it's mostly like podcast stuff, which is lovely. Yeah, nerdery on Twitter is brilliant. And that's what I'm now sticking with. Yeah. Love the geeks. Yeah. And I know, like, it's kind of a privilege thing

to be able to go, okay, I can meet this and not think about it because it's not directly my existence being threatened. I'm not a trans woman, but ah. Yeah. So for listeners who don't know the latest bit of bullshit news as JK Rowling's newest book is about a cis man who dresses up as a woman to murder women. Yeah.

That is as much as I know because I haven't delved into it. I did a little delve after you mentioned it yesterday. To be fair, like this book without the context of JK Rowling being really shitty over the past six months or so would be problematic, but it is also a trope that's been used before. It's a shit trope.

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I mean, it's a, it's an inherently transphobic trope, but one that can be done without the author being in transphobic, if that makes sense. But if you can combine it with the fact that the author is quite transphobic, and I'm not going to.

And very publicly, dramatically transphobic at the moment. Yeah. And I'm not going to sit and fucking debate whether she's transphobic or not. Like she is. She can say, I stand with trans women. Like, yeah. With as much as she likes, but you're still being fucking transphobic.

Fucking the whole, ah, women, the rights of women and girls are being eroded. Like, yes, by the fucking patriarchy, not by trans people. She's also a dick for saying that no woman who's ever been abused by a man would disagree with her. So wait to shut out like a bunch of women there, dickhead. Yeah. Just kind of had this whole thing. And yeah, if we haven't made this like super clear

on the podcast, we very, very unequivocally stand with trans people. Public service announcement. So that's our weekly call of people who now hate us. And let's carry on. Yes. And I'm being very clear that that includes anyone with the phrase gender critical feminist in their Twitter bio. Yeah. What was the other thing we were mad about?

Oh, the watch. Yeah. Just continuing rage there. The thing is, I've like tried really hard to not automatically hate this show. As I've said before. I know. It's been very touching to see you not be angry deliberately. As I've said before, just as a description of a show, it sounds like something I would enjoy watching

if it didn't have the Discworld name attached to it. And as I said, when we talked about it at the beginning of this month, like I was looking at the show runners tweets and it seems like this is something he really cares about. And maybe this is, you know, the good stuff that he has found in the books. But he tweeted a whole list,

like thanking everyone involved in the show and didn't mention. Yeah. It was Instagram. Rihanna Pratchett shared it on Twitter. He literally didn't mention Terry Pratchett. Great. And it's like, dude. It was a massive fucking list as well.

Yeah, exactly. And Instagram doesn't have a character limit. Yeah. If it did, you don't fucking leave out Terry Pratchett. And you're adapting his work, whether it's only loosely based on or whatever. So I'm still trying really hard to be the person who's going to try and take the show on its own merit.

And also I'm almost petrally determined to like it on the basis that I'm so sick of seeing rants in Facebook groups about it. Your contrarianism must cause a lot of inner conflict. Yeah. I'm very tired. All of the time. Did you hear that whole thing about the new Sherlock creators being sued by the estate?

Yes. Isn't that hilarious? Like, oh, there was... And on this case, I have no sympathy for the owners of the estate because they have nothing to do with what's his jobs. Oh my gosh. Arthur Conan Doyle.

No, not whatsoever. I mean, Sherlock is technically public domain now, right? Some of it. This is the thing. So they're suing because Sherlock is being portrayed as empathetic and non-misogynistic. Yeah. That was the bit I read, which is fantastic. In the later books,

that could be seen to be part of his character. Those books aren't yet in the public domain. Right. Okay. In the early books, where he's a misogynistic sociopath type, yeah, are in the public domain. So, yeah, basically, the estate are just trying to find this loophole

to sue a TV company or whatever. But I just thought that was hilarious. They're suing... The estate is suing because he's being portrayed nicely, yeah. So have we got anything else to be super angry about before we crack on? I mean, yes, but nothing that needs saying right now.

Cool. Okay. So just general base levels of rage as we go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. You know, seething. But in quite a good mood, anyway, so... I am in a surprise mood. Unlike last week, where we were trying really hard to be positive and just kept coming out in grumps.

This week, we've got angry things on the soft open bullet points and in quite good mood. Strange how the world works. Right. Shall we make a podcast? Yeah. Let's make a podcast. Hello, and welcome to the True Shall Make He Fret, a podcast in which we are reading and recapping every book from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series,

one at a time in chronological order. I'm Joanna Hagen. And I'm Francine Carroll. And this is the final part of our discussion of Eric, the NERICS Discworld book. Nevella. What a Nevella it's been. I actually haven't hated it as much as I thought I would, obviously. But...

I quite enjoyed it, but it's never going to become one of my favourites. I think it's going to be a good one. It's never going to become one of my favourites. Note on spoilers. This is a spoiler-like podcast. Obviously, heavy spoilers for the book we're on, Eric, but we'll avoid spoiling any major feature events

in the Discworld series. And we're saving any and all discussion of The Shepherd's Crown, the final Discworld novel, until we get there, so you, dear listener, can come on the journey with us. Journey on a flaming treadmill. Yay, flaming treadmill. It took me a little while before I realised it was like a wheel.

Yeah. This is where the illustrations really hope, because there was help, because there was literally a picture of them. Yeah, yeah. I was imagining some kind of rickety, gym-like treadmill giant thing. I was like, I kind of see that, and then it was suddenly rolling across hell.

I was like, oh, oh, no, I get it. Yeah, that makes more sense, I guess. Hamster wheel. So I suppose that's what a treadmill would have been originally. I could have looked that up for an obscure talking point. Oh, yeah, because it's literally... It was a mill. You tread on it to mill things. Yeah.

Without even googling it, so I can get a vague idea of where that probably came from. It's a fairly simple S-Emoji. Before we crack on, following up, we didn't have anything to follow up on, apart from General Rage. No, probably not. No, Dispatchers from the Round World.

Ooh, I like that people talk to us now. I quite like it. Makes me feel seen. Well, I'm not seen, heard, I suppose. Heard, yes. They can't see it. Don't see me, don't see me. Please don't see me, I'm not wearing makeup.

Yeah, we were talking about words that are only used with the prefix or suffix. Andy pointed out, gormless, no one is ever described as having gorm. True. I did consider... Oh, what a gormful young man. I did consider looking up the actual etymology of gormless,

and then I didn't. No, no. I should have got Jack to come up with his own list. I didn't realise we'd be following up on this. Who else have we...? Finda on Twitter did the very meta example, and if you can have a prefix and suffix, then surely you can have just an X or a fix.

It'll be a fix, I think. Yeah. S.U. being after in this case, appended to. Hold on. Suffix is in sub, subordinate. And fix comes from figure to fasten, or lack of it. Excellent. Cool.

All right. So it's the subordinate fix, and then prefix would be the pre. Preordinate. I'm also really annoyed at myself that we had this conversation on the podcast, and I didn't mention my favourite line from 10 Things I Hate About You,

is, I know you can be overwhelmed, and I know you can be underwhelmed, but can you ever just be overwhelmed? I think you can in Europe. All right. Cute. I've got to watch that one day. Have you never seen it? Nope.

This is such a regular thing on the podcast. But like, the things I get indignant... I think just by default, I have not seen the movie. But the things films I get indignant about you seeing are not big classic films, like Casablanca or Apocalypse Now, it is things like 10 Things I Hate About You. Have you seen Bring It On?

Yes, I have seen that one. Not one. Not for a while though, I'd be willing to re-watch that in our Francine Sits Down and Watches the Not Really Classics. Obviously, Twilight will have to happen at some point. Yeah. But if it's not projected onto a sheet, I'm not interested. God, you're specific.

But also, yeah, that's fine. I'll hang a sheet and get a projector. So, is that all of our prefect suffixes? Send us more. Yes, send us things. I like this game. This is one of my favourite games. Top of my head, I can never think of any.

Disgruntled is always the one I go back to, and that's because that was the one your husband pointed out to me. A very long time ago. Hmm. Well, because the gruntle just means a small noise of pleasure. Yeah, there's more on it. I had to recommend, if you're interested in this, the book The Etymologicon.

Did you get me that? Yeah. Yeah, I thought so. I'm slowly making my way through that internet language book you got me, by the way. My copy of it, because I got all of myself a copy as well, that never turned up, so I still haven't read it. Oh, right, well, I'll pass it on to you then when I'm done.

Oh, no, it was your Christmas present. I'm going to buy myself a copy. It's out of paper right now. Anyway, sorry, Eric. That's what we're talking about. Francine, would you like to tell us what happened previously on Eric? Sweetenly, that's part of my half page of notes. He thought I was underprepared last week.

You ain't seen nothing yet. Well, it turns out you had all the same talking points as me, so. Well, exactly, yeah. Also, I did print out my spreadsheet, so it looks like I've got more than I have. Previously on Eric. Snap! Eric and Rincewind end up in the Tezaman Empire,

where our titular tit is treated like a deity. Unfortunately, this tribe has a long list of complaints to the landlord and a beautifully illustrated indication of how they intend to make things right. After a beef interlude of fear and fountains, the luggage saves the day, squashing the real deity, as he does so. And our winnigade withered transports us to sort

for a comical entrance into a decade-long siege. We meet the beautiful, if now rather matronly, Eleanor, and one of Rincewind's more notable ancestors before buggering off and setting fire to the place in the process. And then, snap! So this week, on Eric. Astrophagal Compton Plates Laviolus' future,

as we learn that time is not such a rigid concept for demons. After another snap of the fingers, Rincewind finds himself and Eric adrift in nothing. What a load of absolute bill. On the hunt for Rincewind, Astrophagal visits the end of the universe and has a catch-up with death. He learns that our hero is human.

Rincewind and Eric watch the universe begin in the company of the creator, well, a creator. Eric learns that to live forever, he really has to start at square one. Astrophagal arrives at the beach at the beginning of the universe, only to find footprints and an empty magic circle. An egg sandwich starts evolution.

As Rincewind and Eric amble through hell, Astrophagal throws another tantrum and the luggage catches up. Rincewind and Eric bump into pints and that damn parrot. Laviolus joins them in the giant treadmill to discuss exit strategy. The luggage makes a subtle entrance and our plucky band of misfits head for the door

on a runaway wheel. The Duke versenegos begins to enact a plan to take down his demonic boss. Astrophagal does a confront and Vasenegos' plan comes to fruition as a sneaky promotion gets Astrophagal out of the way for good. Forgotten by the demons, Rincewind and Eric walk back to the world on a road paved with good intentions.

Does a confront. Do you like that one? I'm such a fucking child. I love all the internet animals, people, shit. You really think I wouldn't as someone who cares about grammar for a job, but I do. I care about grammar in important things and really hate the nonsense of internet speak

being used by corporations, but we are not a corporation. We are not at home to Mr. We are not at home to Mr. Capitalism. Next is the helicopter in loincloth watch. Oh, right, yeah. So runaway wheel, ancestor of the helicopter? No. It's going entirely the wrong direction.

Tanks are mentioned. They sometimes hang out with helicopters. Better, I suppose. Town gentle. As far as loincloths go, I'm just going with implied for this entire section, especially the torture bit. The runaway wheel has kind of a connection

to the whole thing about wheels not existing in the Tasman Empire, doesn't it? Nice little, yeah. Nicely comes full circle. And then you've got full circle. And there's lots of ancient Greek stuff in this section as well, the torture and the mythology around Hades.

Yeah, I figured you'd have a field day with references. So favorite quotes. I'm not sure if I'm first or you are, because our page numbers are different. Well, you start then, because I've not turned to the right pages. Cool. I've got to make this room so dim.

I forgot I'd have to read things. Astrophagals surfed across the entropy slope, an angry red spark against the swirls of interspace. He was so angry now that the last vestiges of self-control were slipping away. His jaunty cap with its stylish hornlets had become a mere wisp of crimson dangling from the tip of one of the great coiled ramshorns that

framed his skull. With a rather sensuous ripping noise, the red silk across his back tore open and his wings unfolded. They are conventionally represented as leathery, but leather wouldn't survive more than a few seconds in that environment. Besides, it doesn't fold up very well. These wings were made of magnetism and shaped space

and spread out until they were a faint curtain against the incandescent firmament, and they beat as slowly and inexorably as the rise of civilizations. They still looked about like, but that was just for the sake of tradition. Beautiful. That is my favorite wanky, beautiful description with a joke at the end.

I also like the word hornlet. I like hornlet. Hornlet. Like a short erotic story. I was thinking it's sort of a term of endearment. How are you a little hornlet? But again, horniness implied. Well, yes.

Francine, this is a family podcast. No, it isn't. It really isn't. Oh, yeah. I feel like I've been very clear about this. Can we just get through one episode without dick jokes? I think we probably might have done. Jesus.

I'd have to go back and check, and I'm not willing to do that. Right. Francine, what's your favorite quote? Happily, I've picked a contrastingly short, silly one. But it just happens to have stuck with me and echoed throughout the discworld fandom, I must say, which is multiple exclamation marks he went on shaking his head are a sure sign of a diseased mind.

Again, that's one of the ones I wouldn't have been able to tell you which book it was from. Oh, so this got mentioned in the annotated project file, actually. So people will quote that and say it's from Eric. And then loads of people often go and correct them and say, no, no, that's from Reaper Man. That's because there is a very similar line in Reaper Man,

which I could find it. In Reaper Man, the quote is, five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind. See, I prefer this one. Yeah. And then also, obviously, in Masquerade, it's taken to his logical conclusion. Yes.

We'll get there. We shall. In some time. This is something that keeps happening, actually, is that we get onto books that aren't really my favorite, and then I realize one of my favorite quotes is from them. Like, sorcery had the whole cats, cats are nice thing. Yeah.

Anyway, you read your quote beautifully, I must say. Thank you. Practicing that voiceover work. I am available for hire. Again, it weirdly sounds filthy when I suggest it. Yeah, yeah, no, that's a. Um, characters. Characters, characters.

So we meet the creator. Yeah, who's a little bit of a let down to poor Eric. Yeah, a little rat face man with a pencil behind his ear. Just trying to get his job done. Yeah. Got plenty of these to be doing. What, you think you're special, right? You're not special.

I do like his Let There Be Egg and Crest sort of thing. Yes. I'm a little bit confused again by the the drawn out joke of there's no words for the things. Yeah, it kind of I get it. But like maybe I like the creative it did feel proper homage to hitchhikers, though. Yes.

Yeah, I thought so, which is one of the few bits. I actually I know everyone really hates the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy movie, but Bill Nyei doing the architect bit. Oh, the only good bit is Bill Nyei. OK, cool. Yeah. And see, that would have been something I would have gone out my way to watch if I hadn't been told not to.

So to be honest, it's like if you just it's one of those things where it's a adaptation, but it's a perfectly entertaining film. Yeah, I just I know we've had this exact exchange before, but it's some things I'm just so attached to, I would find it almost impossible to not see as an adaptation. And I was surprised that I managed to enjoy the picture of Dory and Gray film for what it was, considering it wasn't exactly

a masterpiece and how much I love the picture of Dory and Gray. Yeah, I hated the film the first time I watched it because I love the book so much. But then watching it again, it's like, actually, they kind of did something quite clever with it. And yeah, it's a good film. Other examples, the great Gatsby, the Baz Luhrmann one, not super accurate adaptation because it's had the Baz Luhrmann

treatment, but it's very much in the spirit of the thing. And it makes it very enjoyable. And Leonardo DiCaprio was perfect casting Leonardo DiCaprio in great contrast to Tom Cruise. One of the what was that? Oh, that was post. OK, good. One of the acting icons of around our childhood, who's just gotten better.

Yeah, although tendency to date 19 year olds. Oh, does he hate learning things about men? It's never good. Accurate. God, what are we talking about? The creator? God, actually, yeah. Yeah, God, I like capital G. I like the sort of idea of how it works, if he makes the universe and then buggers off to do the next one.

And, you know, I don't just run to run things. I've got to go there. But God's showing up any minute. I feel like it must have been like a bit of a hitchhiker's reference. Yeah, because this is post. Yeah, this is post hitchhikers. Yeah, because it was the radio comedy in 1978. And then. Yeah, the radio play came first.

Yeah. And then when did the book come out? I need to listen to the radio play again. Yeah, 1979, it was almost immediate. OK, yeah, death is next, right? Yeah. So obviously, we've met death before. This is not new. He's already been in this book, but I really like this little bit where astrophagal turns up at.

He isn't sure whether this goes to the beginning or the end of the universe. So he goes to the end. He must be at one of those places. Yeah. Yeah. So he goes to the end and death is there. So death, like we pointed out, he was really antagonistic in the colour of magic and then very quickly chilled out and became the character we love. But he's still got a little bit of a thing about Rincewind. Astrophagal mentions him in his eyes, flash red.

Yeah, which I was trying to think. I'm not sure if that ever happens again. I think it's just because he has so many near Rincewind experiences. Yeah, he eventually just kind of comes to terms with it, doesn't he? Yeah, but there must be some kind of irritating professional thing. Like, I'm going to have to show up near him again because he's going to have a near death experience. So I've got to have a near Rincewind experience,

but he's not actually going to die. It's just a waste of my time. I can imagine it being really irritating. Yeah, absolutely, especially as he almost like he knows generally. It's only this interdimensional bullshit that keeps fucking it up. Yeah, but he I quite like he's sort of sat there sitting around at the end of the world and he sort of has this moment of on the way. And he's sort of like, oh, I don't know what to do.

Shuffle the scythe. Maybe just go home. And then the universe starts again and he relaxes. Oh, well, I'll have something to do. Not actually a character that turns up, but it made me happy. The Persephone reference. This is when they're discussing what they should do while they're in hell and Eric's spacing what they should do on a Phoebe in mythology.

And he's like, oh, well, there's a girl who comes down here every winter or she sort of creates the winter, which is a reference to the Persephone story. So Persephone is married to Hades and tied to hell with pomegranates. Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah. And her mother, ultimately known as Demeter, or there's another name for her. Basically, Persephone has to spend six months of the year in hell.

Her mother is goddess of the harvest. So she throws a strop whenever her daughter has to go to six months in hell and refuses to let any nice weather happen, which is how you get winter. Persephone is the goddess of the spring because it's when she comes up from Hades for her six months up here that spring happens. What if global warming is just a meter finally coming around for Hades? It's a long shot, but yeah, no, maybe we should. Maybe we should focus on the other causes of global warming.

There's also the it helps if you've got a liar is in the kind you play when you do leave. If you look back, I think pomegranates come into somewhere or you turn into a piece of wood. So the pomegranates thing is Persephone. The liar and the not looking back is Orpheus and Yeridici. I don't know if it's Yerides or Yeridici. Someone turned into a salt.

No, it often gets mixed up with lot and the pillar of salt, but that's a biblical thing. But it's both about the looking back. So Orpheus was this amazing musician. He could play the liar and he charmed everyone. He married Yeridici, but she used to fuck around in the forest with nymphs and ended up getting killed by what? I can't remember now.

But she does. Oh, yeah, no, some shepherd like gets obsessed with her and murders her. I think it's always man. It's always man. Of course it's man. The patriarchy is the main villain in Greek mythology. Well, it's Zeus, but Zeus is the patriarchy. Anyway, Orpheus is really good at playing the liar and all the gods love him. So he's protected, which means he can go to Hades and try and get his wife back.

He charms Hades and Persephone with his music playing. And they're like, OK, you can have a back, but you've got to walk out of here and she's got to follow you. And if you look back at her, she'll fuck off forever. And he can't hear her footsteps behind him, but he keeps going. And he's like three steps from the entrance. And he's like, no, no, I still can't hear her. She must not be there. Looks back.

She's gone forever. What I tried. Yeah. Orpheus is an idiot. So I think then he like goes and lives in hell or something. Yeah, so I can't let a good Greek mythology reference pass me by. And we've got Vasanago, who again, we've kind of met before, but he's great in this section. I love the description in terms of sheer enterprise and deviousness of mind.

He might even have passed for human. Yeah, yeah. I like this sort of cleverness where he absolutely hates all the corporate nonsense, but he learns enough to know exactly how to fuck astrophagal over. Should we do a small rendition of that bit? Yes, nothing less than a complete, full or authoritative, searching and in-depth analysis of our role, function, priorities and goals, Sire.

Vasanago stood back. The demon lords held their breath. Astrophagal frowned. The universe appeared to slow down. The stars halted momentarily in their courses. With forward planning, he said at last. Priority, Sire, which you have instantly pinpointed with your normal incisiveness, said Vasanago quickly.

The demon lords breathed again. Astrophagal's chest expanded several inches. I don't need special staff, of course, in order to formulate. Formulate the very thing. And Vasanago, who was perhaps getting just a bit carried away. Astrophagal gave him a faintly suspicious glance. But at that moment, the band struck up again. The last words Rincewin heard as the king was let out of the hall were.

And in order to analyze information, I shall need and then he was gone. See, that to me is the true ending of the book. That is perfect. It is excellent. It is my favorite exposure and exaggerated corporate nonsense. See, I imagine very much Stephen Fry in this bit.

Oh, Stephen Fry would make a great Vasanago. Yeah. Especially now, because he sort of slimmed down and looks a little bit. But now I'm imagining him back in the like a bit of Fry and Laurie days. So like when he. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Really a posture. Yeah. Even a bit of the melt shit around him around the mustache.

Oh, I love a mustache. Yes. Anyway, thank you for indulging that. No, that was great fun. I love that. We should try to play location wise. We go to the end in the beginning of the universe. We've talked about that a lot of big deal.

And yeah, we spend quite a lot of time in hell. Lovely place. Wonderful this time of year. Not as many fires around as they used to be. I do like that as they enter hell. The door, the horrific door knock has been tied up. So it can't be used in places. A horrible little doorbell to describe the sound it produced might once

have been a popular tune, possibly even one written by a skilled composer to whom had been vouchsafed for a brief ecstatic moment. The music of the spheres. Now, however, it just went bing bong ding dong. Yeah, I like how it's definitely that tune. It is definitely the irritating one I had for years because I can't figure out how to change it. Francine, talk to me about sandwiches.

Turns out life on disk was started by a sandwich. Egg and Cress, no mayo. However, I feel like if we had been a bit more choosy about our sandwich, perhaps life could have been better. So what sandwich do you think would produce a world worth living in? OK, so is this like sandwiches I just really like? Or is this I really need to think about how evolution would come from the sandwich? Well, it wouldn't.

So you can pick whatever sandwich you feel like would be amusing or nice to talk about. I did make, like, possibly the best sandwich ever. Earlier in one lockdown, like, started to ease. I went for a picnic, a socially distanced picnic with my sister. And I took like a huge piece of focaccia and cut it open and spread it with pesto and some fresh mozzarella and tomato and some really, really good serrano ham. And then I closed that, wrapped it in foil and baked it with a weight on it and then cut it into triangles and had it while it was still warm.

Well, I'm hungry again. Yeah. So I feel like that it was that's like a warm, comforting start to the universe. And how would how would the how would life evolve from that? It would be very Italian. Yes, I'm OK with that. I'm quite like the Italians. Yeah, not a great. Political record.

But OK, well, nice people. Yeah, good food, nice people. Yeah, olives. Are we going through the Roman Empire? I feel like we need to feel like as a dedicated anti-imperialist, you should think about that. I mean, I'm an anti-imperialist, but, you know, aqueducts are really cool. Yeah, I was always pros and cons to these sandwiches. So yeah, I'm going to sandwich.

Toasted focaccia in the hope of early aqueducts, which I really think could do interesting things for life as we know it. Nice. How about you? Well, as a vegetarian, I am a little limited. And so I'm going to go with my favourite sandwich before I gave up meat. But like just when you get really good tomatoes and just a cheddar and tomato sandwich with like a little bit of mayo on sliced bread, it's really satisfying.

That is really nice. Yeah. However, I'm still going to go because it was a revelation to me at the time. For a little while, I lived off goat's cheese and bacon toasties. Because the combination of those two flavours is one of those unique things like apple and cheddar, like you just never expect them to taste that way together. And I'm very with you here. It was absolutely incredible. And so when I was maybe 20, I had a few months where I basically just ate that.

That's I don't have a very good. Diet is in I get obsessed with the food and just eat that for three months straight and then never eat it again. So yeah, I've had to train myself out of that because I do that a lot, not a sandwich, but just for the thought of not a sandwich. But no, no. Look, I'm not a sandwich, but I am to piece of bread with some stuff. This is not a sandwich, but this is something that sort of happened

when there was very little food to snack on in my flat and flat snack food was very necessary while watching a movie. Yeah. And we we dunked twiglets in borsam. Oh, it was filthy, terrible. I don't like twiglets, but I'm still intrigued. Yeah. No, I highly recommend when you need like bad snack food, twiglets and borsam. Are you making a note of twiglets and borsam? No, I'm writing down not a sandwich, but for a title, I do.

Oh, OK, cool. I'm not writing down twiglets and borsam. I'm sorry. It sounds like a double act crime fighting duo. Do we get some borsam? One savoury. Hard and one soft, creamy. Pardon it. Oh, no. You made it dirty again, Francie.

I didn't mean to. I was trying to talk in the voiceover voice and it turned into that kind of voiceover. OK, so but we've both landed on toasties. I think a warm sandwich is the key to a good universe. Yeah, I think basically that's probably where we went wrong. You can't really have a warm-making press. Oh, my stomach just ripped itself to shreds. Yeah, exactly.

So, yeah, I think just a nice toasty. What, even to go vegetarian again, actually, a cheese and tomato toasty is nice. And you don't not like fresh tomato, because then that turns into the centre of the Earth's type part. But. Sundry tomatoes work. Yeah, sundry tomatoes are even just like fucking tomato puree for a proper. No, no, no, no, trust me for a proper dirty fucking pizza. Toasty thing.

Thin layer of thin layer of tomato puree. Like really scrape it on there for the tomato thing. Fresh basil, whatever cheese you've got. It's good. It's good. Maybe, maybe. I know you're a food snob, but you have to admit, sometimes when you try shit food, it tastes good. Well, yeah, I just like Twigglers and Borsams, for instance.

Just pulling an example randomly from the air here. Twigglers and fucking Borsams, what the fuck, Joe? I'm more angry about this the more I think about it. It was what I had. I made my own tomato sauce for pizza at the weekend, and it was glorious. I roasted cherry tomatoes with garlic and a few shallots and some rosemary and olive oil and then blitz that. And that was a beautiful pizza.

Don't get me wrong, I can make a fucking banging pizza sauce. But this is, I cannot cook anything right now, food. Oh, yeah, this is this is low spoon food. Yeah. We will go back to the spoon. You can eat it. I'm going to go and make a toast to you. You can, but don't.

There's no real reason why not. Just don't. I can't localise why. I've got no bread or I'd go and make a toast to you and eat it with a spoon. Just cause rage in you. I'm not sure it's even rage, just concern. The life is full and apart when you're eating a toast to you with a spoon. In a garden centre cafe. Oh, do you know what?

This fucking lockdown's got to me so much. I miss a garden centre cafe. Yeah, I feel I need to make it clear for our international listeners that in England, garden centre cafes are a thing and you just get all they sell is like cheese toasties, which is not like a grilled cheese sandwich, but it is like made in a shitty panini breast type thing. But with shit sliced white bread. The garden centre in Jersey is like gorgeous, gorgeous garden.

Absolutely wonderful and really nice garden centre in general. And oh, God, how long is it going to be tonight? Good Jersey. Thing is, I probably could now could, but I won't because risk risk. Yeah, we're not taking risks because there's a pandemic on lads. It hasn't gone away just because we're bored. Anyway, falling. Yeah.

Sorry, I've depressed you again. Let's talk about Douglas Adams. Yay. Where's my book? Oh, here it is. Yeah, I thought another possible nod to Douglas Adams here. Mm hmm. Is Rintzwin's.

Intricately narrated fall to earth from space. He also realised the feeling of falling he had so recently learned to live with was the one he was probably going to die with too. And here's the ground getting closer and closer and et cetera, and obviously Rintzwin panicking the entire way because Rintzwin. But it made me think of the whale that falls. Oh, yeah, Adam's hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. Oh, I love the whale.

And he becomes aware of. Oh, it's getting quite strong. And hey, what's this whistling roaring sound going past where I'm suddenly going to call my head? Perhaps I can call it wind. Et cetera. And never mind. Oh, hey, this is really exciting. So much to find out. I'm quite dizzy with anticipation.

Oh, and what's this thing coming towards me very fast? Very, very fast. So big and flat and round and needs a big, wide-sounding name like our round, round, ground. That's it. That's a good name, ground. I wonder if it will be friends with me. And the rest after a sudden wet thud was silence. Oh, it's such a happy short life.

It had what a lovely whale. Yeah, anyway, that's what it reminded me of, which made me chuckle inappropriately at Rintzwin's fall, because obviously it's meant to be a very serious dramatic. Yes. Yes. A very serious dramatic scene in this novella. And it also is possibly actually, do you know what I said earlier? I wasn't sure I quite got there not having names for things. It's possibly if this whole thing is a Douglas Adams nod.

That's exactly what the Whales doing during that whole thing. Yeah, I think that's kind of what it's a leading to. All right, cool. All right. Well, I take back my earlier slight criticism. Well, it's rare. Like he does the mythology references and stuff, but it's very rare he does such a direct nod to another writer's work, especially a contemporary writer.

And Douglas Adams was effectively contemporary. Yeah. A contemporary of Terry Pratchett. They didn't know each other, did they? I feel like that was in Mark's book. Yeah, I don't think they ever actually met, because I think Mark was comparing it to like him never actually getting to meet Terry Pratchett. Yeah, but they somebody on the Discworld subreddit said recently,

are one of one of the great unwritten collaborations of the universe. And I was like, I mean, yes, but one of them would have killed the other because from what you know about these two authors' writing styles, like Terry Pratchett, incredibly industrious, sits down, writes every day deadline. Nobody needs to give me a deadline. You're going to have three books, whether you fucking want them or not. And then Douglas Adams, like, I love deadlines. I like to wave at them as they pass me by.

I don't want I know I'm a good writer. Don't make me write. I want to play with my new computer. I guess the two again, they were friends. Douglas Adams and Stephen Fry and they bonded over technology. Yeah, the two genders Douglas Adams and Terry Pratchett. Yes. I want to be a Terry Pratchett type writer. I'm very industrious and writes every day.

And I know I am a Douglas Adams type writer. Yeah. Yeah. We will be fixing that in October with some poetry. I'll talk about that at the end of the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. I like the whole the cyclical universe begins with a paperclip. Oh, yeah, yeah. So what else do you think would appear?

This is just reading the footnote. Many think people think it should have been a hydrogen molecule, but this is against the observed facts. Everyone who has found a hitherto unknown egg whisk jamming an innocent kitchen drawer, remember that for later, knows that raw matter is continually flowing into the universe in fairly developed forms, popping into existence normally in ashtrays, vases and glove compartments. It chooses its shape to elace suspicion and common manifestations of paperclips,

the pins out of packaging, little keys for central heating radiators, marbles, bits of crayon, mysterious sections of herb chopping devices and old Cape Bush albums. So what other random objects appear in your life, Francine? Well, that just made me think I could probably just grab a junk bowl of any of these surfaces and tell you I have limited hair ties. I've got micro USB chargers. Both of these things would be I've got some thread.

I have half a candle, of course. This is generally not a prepared bowl of nonsense. This is just what ended up in here, headphones, etc. But yeah, you. Well, I've become ridiculously house proud in the new place. So I have one little junk ball near the door, which I can't reach. But I'll follow it off the top of my head. It's got a midsummer night's dream badge, some coins, a guitar pick.

I don't play the guitar guitar. It's one of the men. Yeah. Yeah. Guitar picks are definitely one of them. Like my guitar is unstrung at the moment because the board needs reworking. And I don't play the ukulele much anymore because, you know, like. Yeah. It's such a vague hint to anyone who doesn't know your life.

But yeah, life got in the way of my ukulele. Also, you don't use a guitar pick for ukulele. But yeah, guitar picks still just crop up in my life. Can I suggest that in the future, if anyone asks whether you play an instrument, you go, well, I used to play the ukulele and then refuse to be drawn. Excellent. Yes, I'm going to do exactly that. And then I'll say, but I can play this, bust out a recorder, play three

blind mice, blow them all away. What else? Since I started making jewelry making like stray bits of wire, head pins and pairs of pliers are everywhere. The headpin. It's like a blunt pin with a little round bit on the end. What's it for? You know that necklace I showed you the other day?

Yeah. Wait, which one? The branch one or the twisty one? The branch one. That's basically lots of those loop together. Oh, OK, cool, cool, cool. Sorry, no context for that for our listeners. I'll link to the tweet with a picture of the necklace. Or, you know, Instagram.

Yeah. Also, listeners, tell us what random items pop up around your house, especially if they are related to some strange corner of your life. Yeah, the life-related ones for me are probably like beads, stray threads, post-it notes. Oh, those little pieces of card that tell you you missed a parcel. Oh, I'm like, did I get that re-delivered? And Jack's like, why don't you just throw them away? It seems you've organised the re-delivery.

And I'm like, well, if I did that kind of thing, then we wouldn't have most of our problems, would we, Jack? And that doesn't win me the argument, but I'm right. That doesn't win me the argument, but I'm right. It sums up so many conversations I have had. Anyway. So back to sandwiches and the work that goes into making them. Yeah, no, this is just a proper tiny bit I liked.

Rinsman looked at the egg and crest sandwich still in his hand. We've still no mayonnaise in it, and the bread was soggy, but it would be thousands of years before there was another one. There had to be the dawn of agriculture, the domestication of animals, the evolution of the bread knife from its primitive flint ancestry, the development of dairy technology. And if there was any desire to make a proper job of it, the cultivation of olive trees, pepper plants, salt pans,

vinegar fermentation processes and the techniques of elementary food chemistry. Do you often go into these little reveries where you kind of stare at an object and you're like, fuck me, that's made up of a lot of bits and all of them have a thing? I do that quite a lot with food because obviously, like working with food a lot and I think about where it all comes from and how it got from A to B.

How far back can you go to make it from scratch kind of thing? Yeah, yeah, because I like breaking things down into their core elements. So it's like, OK, so now with the sandwich, I can make the bread myself. But what about like milling the flour myself? I'm not going to grow your own corn. Can you accidentally grow some corn once? Not corn, we'd grown some corn. Grun some corn, my God.

I am a writer. Are you? Yes, actually, I get paid for it. So yeah, that's more than I get. But I want to clarify a couple of things talking about this, right? There should be no dairy in an egg sandwich. Why would there be dairy? I mean, I'm guessing because this has no mayo, it's got butter.

And the idea of an egg sandwich that doesn't have mayo and like even egg mayo kind of grosses me out, but like an eggless, a mayo-less egg sandwich. But with grass pointless. I don't understand that. It's a dairy. Yeah, it says. Oh, yeah, it must be butter. Yeah, but unnecessary.

But a couple of... Wait, what? No, I always butter a sandwich. I don't always butter a sandwich. It depends on the sandwich. If it's got mayo in it, it doesn't need butter. Well, no, yeah, but it doesn't have mayo. Yeah, but like why would it have butter instead of mayo if it's an egg sandwich? Because the creator makes mistakes, obviously.

Yeah, well, I have issues. Including fingers. Including fingers. I have an issue with the creator. I left out is one of the things I like, even though I do like it just because there's nothing to say about it other than it made me giggle. Fingal. Fingals.

What could have life been like? What could have life been like? Fuck, I've had quite a lot of different medications today. So let's blame that. Excellent. But there's also the line, if only there had been some mayonnaise, life might have turned out a whole lot different, more pecan perhaps with a little extra cream in it.

Yeah, there's no cream in mayonnaise. Yeah, but it's creamy. Yeah, but there's no cream in it. Well, there's no pecan in it. Yeah, it's using pecan as a verb. It's using cream as a noun. It's a creamy noun. Perhaps with a little extra cream in it,

which means cream is being used as a noun and cream has nothing to do with an egg. No, I think it's being used as an adjective, just in a strange sentence structure. It's a very strange sentence. Like the word like, like the world having a little more joy in it is like. It's more joy, but surely not the solid solid element of joy has been introduced in bucket bowls. Well, yeah, but surely you'd say it would have a little more creaminess in it rather than cream.

No, I don't think so. That this just seems like a Pratchett turn of phrase. I disagree. It doesn't scan as well. I think people are going to start getting funny ideas about putting dairy in the wrong place in leg mayonnaise sandwich. And I feel very strongly that people who start fucking around with dairy and mayonnaise have no place on this earth.

Boredom. All right. Yeah, the nature of. So this comes up at a couple of points in the book. Page 119 for me is when I first kind of made note of it because it's Rincewind realising he doesn't want to live on the planet from its very inception. Ooh, they're saying.

Spending all of your spare time for the next infinity, it wasn't a patch on a quiet evening, strolling through the streets of Anke. And it's interesting because all Rincewind never wants is boredom. But as is hinted at here and then is more explicitly said later on in the book. But he realised what made boredom so attractive. It was the knowledge that worse things, dangerously exciting things were going on just around the corner and that you were well out of them for boredom to be enjoyable.

There had to be something to compare it with. And that's quite right. Like for me to have downtime or like, you know, boredom, what he's calling boredom. It's not satisfying if you haven't finished something or there isn't something to do eventually. This is almost exactly the note I made, like it's really relatable. I don't have time to be bored. So I miss like boredom.

I miss nothingness, like I'm never bored because I am always trying to do 20 million things at once. Yeah. But like the description of the hotel. Gave me that horrible spine grating feeling. I think when you were a kid. Yeah, I'm not sure I've had that kind of boredom since I was a child. Well, this is why I used to take so many books everywhere.

I went on a holiday to North Yorkshire once and they ended up just being an evening and kind of being stuck in the hotel and nothing to do because we were staying in this like tiny village. So there was nowhere to go of an evening and there was a bar in the hotel, but it was just it was just a very dull place. And it was a lovely, beautiful place. Lots of long, healthy walks and all that shit.

But I didn't bring quite enough books for the trip. And I definitely hit boredom. I get bored in long car journeys. I have to read. Yeah, yeah. I think the thing like as you get older, you can do more things. And it's not even just like the freedoms of, say, being able to go for a walk

on your own or, you know, going to the bar instead of having to stay in the hotel room or something. It's just things like I'm less likely to be bored in the house with nothing to do now because I know that I enjoy painting or I know that I enjoy like making something on the computer or learning this or that. Whereas when you're a kid, you've got like a pretty small list of things, you know, you like enjoying. And if you don't have those to do, you're upset. It's like, yeah, it's that and also because you don't really have

stress in the same way to compare it to. I mean, kids obviously have their own stresses and things, especially once you get to homework kind of age. But it's not quite the same as a nine to five shift work or whatever. Yeah. And this is like the weird thing is the worst sort of boredom thing is at work when it's quiet. And it's like I've done so many extra cleaning jobs. I don't really want to do another one.

Yeah, because you have to be done. Yeah, I have to be here, but it's going to be like an hour till anyone orders any food. I don't I've done the prep for the day and they're like, there's just enough that might happen that I can't pull out a fridge and queen behind it. Yeah. And that's a really specific kind of frustrating boredom because quite often it's like, oh, well, if I was at home. Yeah. But it's frowned upon to do something like bring jewelry making stuff to work.

Or if I if I have a player and I'll sit and like make my fellow chef run lines with me and shit. It just feels like such a waste of my life, like I'm just standing around waiting for the hours to pass. We have no time to stand and stare. I know that's the opposite point of the poem, but still. Yeah. And we don't have time to stand and stare.

Loves it. I do it anyway, just because I forget what I'm doing, but I don't have time. But I spend a lot of time standing and staring and going. Yeah, I really like the the punishments section, which is one from this, where they're effectively torturing them with boredom. You've got. The guy who's punishment is to be changed to the rock and every day an eagle would come and pick his liver out.

But now the eagle flies down and tells them about his hernia reparation, which to be that one, I double I was double checking these punishments and stuff in the annotated project file and the project file pointed out that although that's most commonly associated with the Prometheus myth, yeah, there was someone else who was tied up in hell having that done to them because Prometheus was on an island, not in hell. But I'm assuming it was just meant to be a Prometheus reference because you've also got like the guy is supposed to push a boulder up a hill.

Yeah, which was Prometheus is far from the gods, isn't it? Prometheus stole fire from the gods and his punishment was to be changed to a rock and have an eagle pack out his liver every day. That's referenced in the last hero as well, isn't it? Yes, we'll get a new liver, same eagles. Sorry, that was a funny meme I saw this morning. I'm actually just going to bring up annotated Pratchett and double check. Oh, Sisyphus of Corinth was the one who had to push the boulder up the hill.

And it was the giant Titus who had to actually do the eagle liver punishment in the underworld, but I still assume it was just meant to be a Prometheus reference. Probably, yeah, probably, although I wouldn't be surprised to be new about both because, you know, it's Terry Pratchett. But yes, the having to listen to the safety regulations. Yeah, no, I take it back. I have been bored as an adult. It's having to sit through presentations, I hate, yeah.

Fucking, like, I very rarely have to experience them because, like, I work one-on-one with my head chef that our staff meetings are five-minute chats when we do a shift together. But occasionally, I have to attend, like, a whole building staff meeting. And there was one that I think I ended up live tweeting and managed to get some Americans in a different time zone doing a shot every time the technology went wrong. And should we talk corporate nonsense, in fact? Yes, that's where they're.

Yeah, just the... Or as I wrote in my notes, two corporate, two nonsense. Yeah, because we did touch on this before. It's just something I find very hard not to rant about. The language surrounding corporate nonsense is something that I truly, in my bones, hate. And I've never quite been able to vocalise why that is. But, you know, it's to the point where I've made a spreadsheet and intend to, at some point, get around to programming a corporate nonsense, Ipsum type thing.

Just, I'm looking at it. I printed it out just to look at it. Now, I hate it. I fucking hate it. I hate all of it. Like, action-oriented solutions. Move the goalposts. Organic growths.

Fucking popularise, optimise, streamline, synergise. God almighty. And because people think they're so fucking important when they're saying these words as well, I think that's part of the attitude behind them. I'm just going to read out a quick line from this... Really wordy ways of saying fucking nothing. Sorry. My name is Ergolf Luger, Spawn of the Pit, and I'm your host for today.

May I be the first to welcome you to our luxurious appointed, chosen for your convenience, full regard for the wishes of you, the consumer, and as pleasurable as possible. Obviously, he's being interrupted by Rence Winter. There'll be a period of corrective therapy, which we hope to make as instructive and enjoyable as possible, with due regard to all the rights of you, the customer. See, this is... There are two flavours of corporate nonsense. Yes, so you're talking...

That is business-to-consumer corporate nonsense, which I can more easily pinpoint why I hate. I also hate that. Don't get me wrong. That's because it is intentionally designed to deceive. Yeah. But you're specifically ranting at this point about within business corporate nonsense. I'm happy to rant about both.

Yeah. I'll rant about both. Yeah. I think business-to-consumer corporate nonsense is designed to deceive, to cloud the issues, to gossip over things. Business-to-business corporate nonsense is also designed for that, except people aren't aware they're doing it. Yeah.

I think it's the... It's just a filler. It is a filler. It is filler words over and over again, and except they're more annoying. I'm just going to... I don't have to deal with this that often because I work in a kitchen. We don't really do corporate nonsense in the kitchen, but obviously I have to interact with the other aspects of the business.

And there is plenty of corporate nonsense there. I try really hard to drown out some of it. So we have things like monthly newsletter, a chance to talk about how we're working, moving forward, discuss any ideas, and also a chance for you guys to add anything you want. Guys. Yeah. I can forgive.

I always say hi, guys. I guess it. I do, but I just find, especially in work emails, just... It is that particular... Hi, guys! Manager. Mm-hmm. Loving the positivity and drive everyone's been displaying.

But yeah, no, I'm with you. I hate it. I hate it so much because it is just nonsense filler that exists for the sake of... I think it is that my role as a writer and editor has always been to get a meaning across as concisely and clearly as possible. And this is the antithesis to that. It is to hide a clear... Hide a simple meaning or hide a complete lack of meaning in as many impressive sounding,

but ultimately useless words as possible. And that is literally what I'm trained to cut out. And there are some people who, as they speak, unlike I would cut out all of your words, if I were in charge of your vocabulary, you would not talk. Favorite episodes of Black Books and Tamzin Greg's character, Fran, has been given an office job in an office run by Rob Bryden. God, yes.

See, this is perfect, yes. And she does not know what the fuck she is doing and is asked to give a presentation to the board and just draws a circle, says nothing but corporate jargon and gets a promotion. And I partly hate myself because I'm a bit like... I can do that. I can. I've lived it enough and I've edited enough of it that I can do well in these situations. And every time I do a bit of my soul dies.

I have nothing of it in me because I've never had to do office work and reading this made me really fucking love the fact that I've never really had to work in an office or engage with this stuff. If you ever want to do marketing, you're going to. Yeah. That's fine. I can bullshit. Vision statement. Turnkey solutions. Oh.

Thought leadership. Oh. Organic growth. This is the eight circles of hell right here. Listening to corporate nonsense speak. Brand recognition. Oh, fucking brand recognition. Should we try and end on an art beat note?

Yeah. For one, exactly. Let's have some joy. We're getting towards the end of the book. The last sort of little page, the note this ends on, is this sort of anti-monkeys poor. So the whole monkey's poor thing, the story, and the wishes all go horribly wrong. And obviously the wishes have not really gone well for Rincewin and Eric. Yeah, yeah.

You know. They weren't meant to. They weren't meant to. Vasanego was fucking with them to distract Dastafagil, which is a plot point I kind of glossed over in the summary, sorry. Yeah, I do like it though, the fact that like alongside his intricate coup, he's just fucking with these guys because he's... Yeah, shits and grins.

But you know, yeah, they nearly got sacrificed and there was a big fire, and then they ended up at the beginning of the universe, whatever. But this is the nice section. It's essential that the proper use of three wishes to bring happiness to the greatest available number of people. And this is in fact what happened. So although Rincewin and Eric suffered, the Tezmin have a new god that isn't likely to come back again.

They're just worshipping the luggage now. Dancers alive, but never zero. When no amount of worshipping caused the luggage to come back and trample their enemies, they poisoned all their priests and tried to enlistend atheism instead, which meant they didn't have to get up so early. So the Tezmin had a lovely time. People in Saulten Afib that get dramas written about them were happy because, you know, in the day, the siege did end.

Apart from Laviolas. Well, yes. But they had a very lovely war. Oh, yes. They're a lovely war. And they can get on with the proper concern of civilizations, which is preparing for the next one. Did you ever say what happened to Eleanor in the end?

Did she just stay put? I think so. Yeah. And everyone in hell's happy because, you know, everything's sorted out and they're not having to put up with Asta Fagall's corporate nonsense anymore. It's getting tortured properly. Yes, fire and grease don't hurt because they realize they don't have body,

so it doesn't have to. Exactly. No more soul torture. I like this little bit of negativity in the positivity section, though, which is, although Vasanego is enjoying his new role. And yet and yet in the depths of his curly mind, he thought he could hear the tiny voice that would grow louder over the years, the voice that haunts all demon kings everywhere.

Look out behind you. Well, yes. But it's very wizardly. It is. I'm assuming that's where wizards get it from, to be perfectly honest. Ah, yes. Creator of the universe is happy because he's managed to sneak in a seven-sided snowflake. The luggage has had a lovely day.

The luggage has had a nice day out. The idea of a seven-sided snowflake upsets me more than the idea of some duplicates. It would be symmetrical. I'm OK with it. And, you know, Rince Wind and Eric walk out of hell and Astvigil's got pens. And I just think it's nice that there's some joy that's been left lying around in the universe after all of the mad cat capers.

There's also a small bit of sympathy, even for the corporate nonsense bit here, because Astvigil enjoying new stationery is something I think you and I also do. Oh, me. I was like, oh, hello. What's this? A huge packet full of coloured markers I'll never use. Yes. Thank you very much.

I'll spend my life savings on that. I'm kind of gusset that with the way my flat's laid out, I don't have room for a specific workspace. I have my sewing room instead of an office. But if I had an office space, I would spend so much money on the right chair and then the stationery and how it's all arranged and where the plants go. And I would be such a big person. Can the sewing table not be kind of multi-purpose?

Yeah, but it's not set up specifically. Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah. If I could set up something specifically as a little workspace, I would be such a wanker about it. Yeah. Do you have an obscure reference finial for me? I do, I do, I do.

It's just a short one, which is lucky because the drum practice has started in earnest. See, these obscure reference finials haven't really ended up exactly as I thought they would, because quite a lot of the time I don't spot references that aren't obvious. But this one was just a cool word I looked up this time. Cosmogenist, which is on page 108. Any created again Cosmogenist will tell you that all the interesting stuff happened in the first couple of minutes. So it's the start of the universe again.

Cosmogenist is the astrophysical study of the origin and evolution of the universe. It can be also a philosophical, religious or mythical explanation. It doesn't have to be just physicisty stuff. Nice. So yeah, that is quite a... I liked it because it's such a broad spectrum of people coming from such different directions for the same question. Excellent.

I approve. And I've not heard the word before and I liked it. It's had quite a few cool words I looked up actually, so... I do enjoy the fact that I have to sit with a dictionary or, you know, fucking Google whenever I'm reading a Terry Pratchett book. Exactly the same way as I do with like an Oliver Sacks book or something. Every now and then I could probably work that out from context, but just to... Ooh, that's interesting.

I always make a note of them to look up later and then I never look them up. Yeah, I have like my Google Keep thing. It's just full of random shit. Like this is the technological equivalent of random items that appear through the world is like notes, files. I've got here Zeppelin blue. Variable obscenity. Zeppelin blue is to do with plaques, I think.

Ah, cool. Oh, that's right. We've got performative alcoholism, perpetual civil twilight, famed cementisist. Yeah, no. One day I'll go through this and get loads of cool writing ideas, finally, which is what they're for. My Notes app is just a weird mix of like shopping lists

and things I need to Google. And so I'll open a note and it just literally says, beef dripping, popcorn, coconut oil, browning, crowl, barker, competition knife. I've got a half written ramen recipe. Oh, another shopping list. Some of the head cannons. Okay, what day is it?

Oh, we missed it. I meant to do one yesterday and I totally forgot. We've had another request. What was the request? God, I can't remember now. It was someone on Facebook. Oh, here's band names. Low budget nightmares, compulsive lumberjack.

That was quite cool. Oh, we should do a band names head cannon at some point. Yeah. Sorry. Where is... Dendo Chronology is the study of tree rings. Did you know that? No, I did not.

Oh, I can't. Okay. I'll find the message another time. We did have a message from someone or a wall post. Anyway, sorry. Yeah, there are too many ways for people to contact us. That's a problem. Yeah.

Anyway, so yeah, my Notes app is full of random shit and it'll be full of more stuff. As October happens. So. Yes. That's everything on Eric. Yeah. Speaking of October.

What's happening in October? Well, in October, we will be talking about moving pictures. Yay. Which I'm very excited about because it's one of my favorites. I'm excited because you're excited and also because you know me. I love a wizard B plot. Yeah. Love a wizard.

Bit of wizard. Going to get a bit wizardy up in here with moving pictures. It's also the first incarnation of the wizard cast as I enjoy them most. So. Yeah. I am also just going to mention this here because October will have potentially started by our next episode

that I do a project every year in October where I write a poem every day. So if you want to follow along with that, I'll be releasing them on various things and I'll link to my socials again in the show notes so you can follow me. You're going to do some discworldy ones, Derek? I will probably do some discworldy ones.

I might write one about the podcast or try and make one entirely out of our episode titles. Are you saying this on the podcast just so that you have to do it? Yeah. Okay, cool. Listeners, hold me accountable, please. So yeah, we are in theory. We're taking a week off.

We're back at the beginning of October. However. Oh yeah, you haven't told me this bit yet. What's next week? It's not 100% confirmed, but unless anything goes horribly wrong, we will be popping into your ears next week with a cheeky bit of bonus content

that is relevant to our discussion of Eric and Faust. So keep an eye out for that. If not, we'll be back at the beginning of October to talk about moving pictures. Book 10. Book 10. Finally. Book 10.

Jesus. Book 10. Book 10, which will hit... No, I know the month before anniversary. Never mind. Yeah, right. Anyway, in the meantime, dear listener, follow us on Instagram,

The Truth Shall Make You Threat, on Twitter at Make You ThreatPod, on Facebook at The Truth Shall Make You Threat. You can email us your thoughts, queries, castles, snacks, and albatrossi. The Truth Shall Make You Threat... No, I'm trying something new. The Truth Shall Make You ThreatPod at gmail.com.

As I said last week, do not explain to me the rules of cricket or time travel. Thank you. And in the meantime... Did anyone try? No, only your father. I can't actually kill him. No.

Quite like him. Anyway, in the meantime, dear listener, this too was happiness of a sort. Do you mind if we take five? Yep, go. I was trying to pause you. Jesus, what's wrong with me?

I'm not an NPC.