The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - 41: The Dark Side Of The Sun Pt.1 (A Sudden Chaos)

Episode Date: January 4, 2021

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan and Francine Carrel, usually read and recap every book from Sir Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series in chronological order. This week, a holiday from the Disc! Part 1 of our recap of “The Dark Side Of The Sun”. Robots! Swamp Not-Dragons! Plannet-Spanning Consciousness! Bees? Find us on the internet:Twitter: @MakeYeFretPodInstagram: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretFacebook: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: [e-mail] to follow your hosts and their internet doings? Follow Joanna on twitter @joannahagan and follow Francine @francibambi Things we blathered on about:Breath - A 30 Day Yoga Journey | Yoga With Adriene - YouTubeThe Dark Side of the Sun - Colin SmytheThe Annotated Pratchett File - The Dark Side of the SunThe Magic Of Terry Pratchett - Marc BurrowsCover images: First edition (painted by Pratchett)Joanna’s copy (Josh Kirby)Francine’s copy (Josh Kirby)Yet another cover (Tim White)White stag - The Two Bears CodexThe Long Earth - WikiWhite Paternoster - WikiMusic: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.com

I don't want to, like, accidentally blow my festive load early. All right, starting off on a high point. So yes, happy new year. Oh yeah, happy new year, second of January 2021. Back on recording just before episodes come out, which is much better. Yeah. And yeah, this is when I realised that subconsciously at least I drew a very thick line under 2020. And I'm now coming to

terms with the fact that all of my actual life is continuing as before. And all the things I kind of mentally put off until the new year are now overdue. I am so I had so we choked in the Christmas episode because we were recording on the 16th, like, Oh, what are the terrible things could happen? And then it came out that England had a much more transmissible variant of the virus. And it wasn't bees, but it wasn't bees.

I feel bees strongly implied. Yeah. And so then a bunch of the country went into tier four, which is basically lockdown, found out just before Christmas. That was fun. Loved that for me. Yeah, and then the pretty much the rest of the country is now going into lockdown around New Year's.

Yeah, I don't, I think there's like three counties in tier three or something, isn't there? I don't understand why we don't just, I suppose it's like we've got room to go backwards or yeah, it's it sucks. So yeah, so that was that was fun. So I kind of because I had that massive Oh, hey, you're off work again indefinitely. The day before Christmas Eve.

Yeah, yeah. And then I had worked really hard to try and make Christmas as fun and close to normal as possible. Yeah. And that meant I had a very nice day, but it meant I automatically felt slightly disappointed afterwards because of course it wasn't the Christmas I wanted because no, it was never going to be.

Yeah. So I very sensibly looked at New Year's with the thing of it's not going to be what I want it to be. It won't be as fun and 2021 won't feel like a brand spanking new year. I won't do. I just kept texting you as normal. I did a Zoom call with some friends.

Oh, that's right. I did know that you sent me a picture. Yeah, I still got like stupidly dressed up and painted my nails and you shamed me into putting on the dress indirectly. You didn't say anything shameful. I just realized I was still in my day pyjamas, which is a thing now and put on a nice dress, makeup, didn't bother drawing my hair and put my dressing gown back over on top.

So I love you so much. New Year's Eve outfit for 2020, I think. Yep. So yeah, so I was kind of prepared for the fact that 2021 wouldn't really feel new and shiny, especially as he said. Another lockdown means you're still working. But for me, this is now very, I have kind of nothing facing me for an indefinite amount of time.

Hmm. Yeah, I had a somewhat ominous email from my boss just before we broke up for Christmas saying something like rest up lots of changes in the new year. So that's great. That's all I'm saying. Well, that's all about on Monday. I see him.

It just means I have more things to do, but which is fine. It's good. The more the less dispensable I am, the better in these trying times, these unprecedented times. I will be studying for a returned president. I will be studying. I will be sewing. I'm going to spend a lot of time in my sewing room on this one.

You're just being general renaissance. I mean, it's not very renaissance to study coding. Yeah, I mean, it's modern renaissance being being instead of man. Well, I move past mammal for you. You really are becoming the void. Being I would like to unbeat. So yeah, any new year's resolutions? I might try the yoga again.

I did it. I've been really shit with it. Oh, was it good? Is it easy? Yeah, it's very easy for me considering I've not done yoga for about two months. Yeah, I haven't done it for about a month and I was fine with it. That is Adrianne's 30 days of yoga for listeners at home, which I usually get around to in about March, but this year, I would like to do in January.

So for the last couple of years, I've managed to do it in January and that was trying to manage it around working full-time. As I'm not working full-time, I have literally no excuse not to do it this year. Which means you'll probably find more excuses not to if you're anything like me. It's one of those terrible truisms, isn't it? If you need something done, give it to a busy person. This is why I'm giving myself lots of tasks for lockdown. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

It'll be a good one. You'll be all right. Yeah, I know. It's just another indefinite one, isn't it? This is the problem. Yeah, at least the last one. I mean, the last one shouldn't have ended when it did. That's why we're in the state.

We're in now, but at least I knew when the end date was. And even with the first one back in March, like July was kind of set as this very end date, but now it's like some reassessment time, at least. Yeah, whereas now it's like some people saying it could be a month, maybe two months. Yeah. And plus there's this whole vaccine nonsense with the vaccine nonsense. I haven't gone anti-vaxxed. Don't worry.

I just mean the government have decided to increase the delay between the two shots, which is I don't think we'll be back to because what really affects me is whether or not restaurants can be open, which is tier two. Sorry for those not in the UK. I'll be a tier system instead of just a fucking lock now. Yeah. Well, in fairness, I think most of our listeners not in the UK or in the US. So yeah, have fun. Yeah. Neither of us have room to judge each other right now.

Oh, absolutely not. But yeah, so I don't think that'll happen until March or April. Yep. Which means a whole fucking year of this, eh? Yeah, literally 12 months of this. Yeah. I was thinking about doing it sometimes in the new year. I do a little writing kind of summing up the last year, which I never put anywhere. It's just a catharsis thing and I might sit down and do that.

I don't really have time, but I just feel like probably some words are in there that won out. I did Inktober and I don't think I've got much less. Actually, that's not entirely true. I started writing a poem on New Year's Eve while I was making a dress and didn't finish the dress or the poem. And unfortunately, that poem was very specific to that New Year's Eve. And I don't think it's worth releasing three days later.

I think you should release it unfinished in July. Well, it is about the fact that, because obviously a lot more properties come into the public domain every year. And this year, the big one is the Great Gatsby. Oh, so the problem is a good subject for a poem. Yes, make that less New Year's Eve. Yeah, no, I probably can. The poem is about basically everyone's showing up to the wasteland.

Nice. Oh, I like that. In sequence. Obviously. Yeah. Oh, fuck. Now you need to write that. I want to read that. OK, well, there you go. Now I've said it on the podcast.

Yeah, you've got to get it done before Monday, otherwise someone else will steal it. I am not going to get it done before. I might get it done on Monday. OK. Considering it's now Saturday. Skipping right ahead to page 68 in my copy of this book, a code being broken by a poet and a mad computer to make me think of you. Oh, thank you.

And when the poets saw the mad computer. Both. One thing I didn't actually put in the main show plan, because it was just a small moment, but the word Zunos was used. And a year ago, I wouldn't have known what a Zunos was. But now. No, yeah, that's a very, what do you mean, call it? Bad or mine, Hoffy, one, because it came up.

On the Great Big Quiz of the Year on Channel 4 as well, like two years before I read that chapter, I was like, yeah, I know what that is. Oh, God, the Great Big Quiz of the Year was fucking terrible. Did you not like it? It was such a sausage fest. They got like a bunch of male comedians and then two female presenters who aren't comedian, and this just ties into the thing. But they were funny.

They were funny. I thought they definitely held their own. They do hold that. They did help held their own. But why not just put like a sensible amount of female comedians on it? There's not like there aren't a lot. I think Joe Brand was busy. Yeah.

That seems to be their full back of woman who is over 30. It's not like there aren't a lot of female comedians. No, I know this. Yeah, I I enjoyed it anyway, but I did note that. Yeah. Bus like Jimmy Carr's just got such a fucking punchable face. He does. I'm still kind of basking slightly in Bill Bailey,

willing, winning strictly come dancing. Yeah, that brought me so much joy. I don't even watch strictly, but it made me very happy. Yeah, I sat down and watched all the videos of him after he won because I was like, oh, yeah, I wasn't really aware he was in it. And it's great. He's so multi-talented. What a twat.

How dare he? Right, that is a Renaissance man. That is a Renaissance man, especially like when you look at his fucking musical ability as well. Horrible. How dare he? Do you want to make a podcast? Yeah, let's make a podcast.

Hello and welcome to the Truth or Shall May Keep Fret, a podcast in which we are usually reading a recapping every book from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series, one of Stymian chronological order. I'm Joanna Hagan. And I'm Francine Carroll. And we are taking a break from the Discworld in January to talk about Terry Pratchett's second novel, The Dark Side of the Sun.

If I edit together those five attempts, I think we should have just about an intro. I did my best. It's the first time recording in like two weeks. We are not seeing. We've all had a lot of not. Having to use our brains up this week, let's be honest. Look, I've barely spoken to humans, which I like actually.

Have you like spoken on the phone and stuff? You had the Zoom calls and things, didn't you? Because if I go a full day without speaking to people, I do start sounding very weird, very quickly. I've had like three Zoom calls in the last week. All right, that's good. Not including this one, but yeah, they, apart from that, I haven't spoken to another human in person since Christmas day.

Because you sorted out your food deliveries and that, didn't you? Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I had a food delivery the day after Boxing Day. I guess I spoke to him. I don't remember it. Oh, yeah. No, I just mean you haven't had to go to the shops. Yeah. No, I haven't gone to the shops.

I haven't gone anywhere. So no fun times. We're going to see if I can do words today. So note on spoilers. This is a spoiler like podcast. Obviously, we're not on a Discworld book, but we may end up talking about the Discworld. So yeah, I might just randomly throw some spoilers in for the late

Discworld books as we discussed this early Prattcher novel. I mean, let's not do that because we're a spoiler like podcast. All right. Yeah, that's it. OK, so I won't do that. Every spoilers for the book we're on, The Dark Side of the Sun. But we will resolution is to be more of a twat. You're doing well. Thank you.

We're a delight. We're a delight. But we will avoid spoiling spoiling any major future events in the Discworld novels, and we are saving any and all discussion of the final Discworld book, The Shepherd's Crown, until we get there. So you, dear listener, can come on the journey with us through interspace, experiencing very strange folkloric hallucinations and with anti-gravity skates, which I really like the idea of

for like two minutes. And then I thought about how much I would skate into walls if I had them. But the scope of the walls, you could find out, finally find out what's in the corners. I don't want to find out what's in the corners, France. And now that's true. It's mostly spiders and I'm terrified of them. Out of excuses, not to dust.

What are we talking about? We are talking about the dark side of the sun. We are. We haven't got anything to follow up on, have we? Apart from happy year of the beleaguered badger to all of our listeners. Yeah. Oh, one small bit of very, very belated follow up. In one of the books, one of the early goose is one of the early books.

There was a character called Virid Waisy Goose. Oh, yeah. And we were like, that's a fun nonsense name. But today, while I was looking through brewers for something else entirely, I found out that Waisy Goose is like a kind of picnic or feast and was especially is associated with publishers. So I would have known that name. Excellent.

So that is extremely belated follow up from possibly one of the first couple of books. Yep. I don't remember which book Virid Waisy Goose was in. It feels like it was a rinse wind. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So yeah, but this one, this one here is even earlier. This is. The second novel, which is only preceded by the carpet people.

It was this one was written in 1974, but not released until 1976. It is not as heavy handed a genre parody, I'd say, as a colour of magic. It's sci-fi rather than fantasy, but it's more pastiche. And stands alone quite nicely as a sci-fi story, even though there's obviously a lot of winged nod elements in it. And I quite liked one review which said, I can forecast an excellent future for the author if he can only bring off the difficult feat of curbing ever so slightly, the riotous imagination,

which enables him to write sci-fi in the first place. Interesting. From the Western Daily Press, which I think Preppy used to work for. He does. Instead of doing that, he'd be it off into fantasy. I put in the show notes. I don't know if you can see it at the show plan, rather. Oh, the original cover.

Yeah, that was done by Pratchett. Yeah, he painted that. That's the last one he did. Yeah, it's a lovely image. This is so the book has these planets where there is no actual living stuff. Everything is robotic and it's the sort of image of robotic bees and flowers. It is. It's a really cool picture. I like it a lot.

It makes me want to start trying to paint sci-fi things, which is a new direction to try and watercolour. We'll not work at all, but let's have fun trying. I want watercolour robots. But yeah, I think it was reasonably successful, wasn't it? Fairly short print run. It was well received and became. It got him some attention from influential people.

Yeah, especially from sci-fi people. And it had a couple of much bigger print runs after Discount started taking off as well. That makes sense, yeah. Yeah. Thank you, as always, to Mark Burris for doing all that research for me. So I can go to the correct chapter. I was about to say one of the handy bits about, obviously,

I consulted the oracle that is the Mark Burris book. All right, all right. Down and arch. We all know that Taylor Swift is the oracle. Mark's like a tiny oracle. Oraclech. An oraclech? Oh, yay.

No, I consulted the book and one of the handy things was it pointed out which sci-fi tropes were being mocked and which hadn't become tropes yet because obviously this is the 70s. Yeah, no. And something I'd kind of picked out as Douglas Adamesque was before the Hitchhiker's Guide. So yeah, this is pre-Hitchhikers. Yeah.

Overall, I liked the book a lot more than I was expecting to from the from the first few pages. Yeah. I did, as you suggested, and just let it wash over me. And I'll say that at the beginning because I highly recommend that for every other reader as well. Yeah, it was it was a little bit hard to get into because I was trying really is because I my way of episode planning is to read the book in its entirety

and then go back through and do the post-its for the section we're going to talk about. Yeah. And then go back through a third time to actually plan the episode from the post-its. So that first read, A. I was doing it between Christmas and New Year in the kind of weird hungover funk. And B. Yeah, I don't read a lot of sci-fi and so much is happening and so much is introduced really early on that I found kind of letting my brain un-latch a bit

and just enjoying the story was the best way to enjoy the book. Yeah, yeah. Agreed. Cool. So where do we start? Hold on, I've got my notes and I've got the show plan in front of me. There we go. Shall I tell us what happened in the section? Yes, summarise, summarise.

In the first six chapters. Yes, we've got chapters. Your edition, that's page 131 and in mine it's 70 something, but I suppose that doesn't matter because we've got chapters. That's nice. Yes, so chapters one to six is this section. Yeah, but ending before six. Well, ending at the end of six.

May not have read the last chapter. It's fine. That'll make it. I may not have done. Sorry, you go and summarise. I'll just make sure I did read that, but I think I don't want to. Excellent. OK, so chapter one opens on Dom Sabalus, involving his last day of freedom

before he becomes chairman of the board. Apologies in advance for my attempt at pronouncing all of these names. As he rides a Dagon and visits a Joker Tower, we learn about the mysterious jokers that appear to have left the universe. A strange attack leaves Dom semi-conscious in the ooze, tended to by a pylac smuggler 40 miles offshore. Collected by security, Dom heads back to the family home, accompanied by a small swamp egg.

We learn some Sabalus family history as Dom chats to Corridor, the head of security, and Hirshen, his phnobic tutor. Hirsh's fear and pity make the young chairman quite ill at ease. In chapter two, Corridor talks to Joan, Dom's grandmother, and we learn that Dom is almost certainly fated to die the next day. Dom wakes on his birthday with only a hazy recollection of the previous day. His sister, Kasia, visits to join the investiture celebrations and gives him Isaac, a class five robot.

Dom breakfasts alone with expensive simplicity as Corridor keeps an eye out, Corridor and Joan watch the guest arrives and discuss security measures as Dom opens his gifts. Tragically at the end of the chapter, another attempt on Dom's life leads to Corridor making a noble sacrifice. In chapter three, Dom lies in pseudo-death, dreaming of his father as his body is rebuilt from green goo goo. And we learn that his recovery has taken four months and he heads home again.

In chapter four, Dom and his grandmother discuss nerves in the nature of fate. A memory cube from John, Dom's father, reveals Dom's destiny to survive fate and discover the mysterious home of the jokers. His grandmother does not approve. Another attempt on Dom's life is foiled as fate saves him once again. Dom heads to the burukku to find his tutor, Hirshug. He thwarts the attempts of grandmother's security to bring him home. With Hirshug, Isaac the robot and Ig in tow, Dom heads for the family yacht

to go joker hunting. In chapter five, Dom continues to defy his grandmother and a ragtag bunch of misfits head for bank with the aid of a sun dog. We learn about the creepy eye, a mysterious race searching for the meaning of life, a joker tower and another assassination attempt caused the sun dog to drop the yacht. And in chapter six, arriving at bank, a huge human planet, Dom handles some financials before asking to speak with the conscious bank, his godfather.

As he waits, he spots a strange, wealthy looking man watching him accompanied by a rubbish robot. The bank explains to Dom that his continued survival has created a new universe of probability and he has around 27 days to find the home of the jokers. Dom's conversation with the bank has cut short as his grandmother tracked him down and he makes his escape and heads off to continue his journey. Right, so I didn't read chapter six. Well, now you know what happens.

Yes, no, that is useful. But yeah, no, that's fine. That's fine. I actually stopped myself from reading the entire thing last night, not because podcast, but because it was very late at night. I'm trying to get my sleep schedule back on before I go back to work. But I got so into it that, yeah. Well, as you have only read the first half of the book, I will try

and not spoil the second half. Oh, yeah, no, I mean, I don't mind particularly, but you never know. Someone might be reading along as well. You know me, I don't care about spoilers. Yeah, this is, I should have mentioned right at the beginning. The first time I've read this. Yeah, I did say I've had a copy of it sat on my shelf for ages. I've always meant to, but just never got around to it.

Well, I think, I think I read the first few pages once and I'd picked it up because I wanted to read Pratchett, because I was probably in a shit mood or something and was like, no, do you know what? This is not what I wanted. Put it down, pick up small gods or something like that. Yeah, like I said, it took me a minute to get into, but once I got into it, it did all feel very Pratchett-y. Yeah, definitely.

It's early and you can. It makes me wish you'd written more sci-fi. Yeah, I would love to read even more just set in this universe. Yeah, absolutely. Cool. So quotes. It's a little bit Neil Ashery almost. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah.

Sorry, yeah, quotes, quotes, quotes. I'm pretty sure yours is before mine. Obviously, we've got completely different page numbers. Yeah, mine is his first assassination attempt. The ball of non-light spun up above the blackened lawn and the landscape twisted. CY was a bright sun in the painfully light sky it showed now as a darker speck. Just thought that was a fantastic bit of imagery. That is brilliant.

That's brilliant. Mine is like that whole scene is just the sudden chaos is pretty expertly pulled off. But yeah, just that that line in particular. Yeah, that's something completely out of nowhere is brilliant. So how about you? Mine is when they are travelling in interspace. Oh, yeah.

Dom knew about the things seen in interspace. The larger ships usually had screening around most of the hull and perhaps an unscreened lounge for the incurably curious. A white stag galloped through the cabin wall, which glowed under an orange light. It bore a gold crown between its horns. Dom sensed its fear, smelled the rankness or the sweat matted hair on its flanks. But its hooves merged with the floor and the floor and skin merged and flowed continuously. It reared and let through the auto chef.

Dom saw the huntsman on his black horse when he brushed through the wall of the drive cabin like bracken. He wore white except for a red cloak hung with silver bells and his face beneath yellow hair that billowed in an intangible wind was pale and set. For a moment, he looked at Dom, who saw his eyes gleam momentarily like mirrors and a hand go up protectively. Then the horse and rider were gone. Yeah.

It's just such a it's just a beautiful bit of prose. Yes. But it's such a in a very heavy sci-fi novel, that moment of. A folklor. Yeah, a very earthy folkloric moment. Did you look into it, by the way? I didn't. I thought about I thought about it and I tried to avoid rabbit holes for this one. Oh, yeah, I did not.

Like, you'll know anyway, like white stags found in various folks. Or I don't. I couldn't find if this was a specific story of like a white stag stealing King's crown or something. I couldn't find it. But white stags are used as warning signs from the other world. Like in the first like prose ever found in Britain. There was a collection of Welsh stories and it appears warning the protagonist

to stop hunting on the grounds of one of the kings of the other world. This could be like that. And it also popped up a lot in our Syrian legend as like this thing that was never caught. So I thought both of them were a bit on theme. Or I could, of course, just be this beautiful imagery that perhaps it has absorbed through many types of folklor. Yeah, that's quite fair.

But I really enjoyed that moment, especially. Yeah, absolutely. It was very evocative. OK, so characters. Characters. So obviously our main man, Dom Sabolos. Yes, thank God you can pronounce his name. I really should have listened to an audio book of this

just to get all of the pronunciations of the names down. But I didn't. So we're improvising. I was thinking like. I probably shouldn't spend a few quid just to hear somebody else try and say this, so I won't. But I did think about it. At the end of the day, it's a fictional sci-fi thing.

Technically, there is no correct way to pronounce it, so I'm going to make it all up. But yeah, so this is correct. The best kind. This is very much coming of age story. Yeah. There's obviously tragic loss of a parent in his history, which is necessary for a young boy coming of age.

Yeah. I quite like him as a protagonist. He's not massively well-rounded, but he's not. He is. As pleasant as you could expect someone in his situation to turn out. Yeah. And that's nice. And but he still has, like, very much the the streaks of Teenage Boy

silliness, which is. He's got the Victor Tugelbend mort. That sort of gang of tragic characters. He's got that little vibe. But it's a bit more competent, I think. Yes, he is surprisingly competent and quite confident as well. Yes. And you've got sort of the whole background of the Savalos family

and this idea of a planet being ruled by board. Yeah, I like how they. They made his family kind of unsympathetic and sympathetic at the same time. Like it kind of it does fit in well with how his character is. Yeah, that was a really shit sentence for you know, I mean, they are well meaning, but they are automatically incredibly privileged.

Yes, yeah. Made quite a lot of money on this planet, Widdishans and effectively rule it. Yeah, because they got very lucky and the things that they found. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and that's like a family trait. Yeah, which is well, yeah, the sort of luck

and fate working out quite well as the family trait. Yeah. And then we've got Corridor. Corridor, Corridor, Ray, I'm going with Corridor. Yeah, I think it's almost knowing Pratchett's later work Corridor sounds about right. Yeah, so he's the head of security. And his job is basically keeping Dom safe

despite Dom trying to evade him at all times. So he's got tiny little pin robots everywhere and he's very anxious. But one thing I want to talk about with him is like I'm not saying spoilers, but like literally this is the bit of the book we're talking about when he dies. There's this huge explosion at Dom's Investiture Ceremony and Corridor ends up sacrificing himself to save Dom.

Like that's how devoted he is to his job and this family. Yeah, but it's very. It just sort of happens and it's not. It's not the source of any angst afterwards. It's not the source of any angst. No one really talks about him again. No one misses him and it's just not treated with much gravity.

And I think that's a kind of A, I know this is early Pratchett and I know it's not discord, but a bit of me half expected a grim reaper character to show up. But even without that, like Pratchett is normally quite good. We talked about in which is abroad how jarring it was when the Beatles were killed without much thought. Yeah, he normally treats death with such solemnity that for a character to just sort of be killed off

and then forgotten about is. Yeah, I suppose that's where the kind of the fact that it's pastiche of the genre might come in because space opera is very much like vaporized, you're vaporized, you're vaporized, everyone's vaporized. And this is very much space opera type sci-fi, which is very 70s. Yes, but like a nice example of it.

I've read right at the beginning, we talked about how you've read quite a lot more pulp fancy than I have. And I think the other way around here, I've read quite a lot more pulp sci-fi than you have. You have read a lot more pulp sci-fi than I have. And it's like considering it's a pastiche of it, it's much better than most of it, just even as a stand-alone thing. Yeah, I'm enjoying it. I am.

But I found that. But yes, no, I see what you mean, definitely. I just think it's interesting to look at how that shifted in Pratchett's writing going forward. Yeah, I think in a few years he would have. Made more of that moment. Yeah, even if it was just a reflective paragraph afterwards. Yeah, or just Dom having a moment.

Yeah, yeah. And then we've got the grandmother, Joan, who's... I like Joan. I like her because she's this big matriarch and no matter who's got the title, Chairman, she's really in control and in charge. Yeah, the fact she packed off her father to live on the other side of the planet when he got too much.

Yeah. I also quite like, you know, she's effectively the antagonist for the first half of the... for the latter half of this section. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's trying to chase Dom and bring him home. She doesn't want him trying to track down the joke as well because she wants him to stay alive.

But like a well-meaning antagonist. Yeah. Who's side you were allowed to see. Yeah. And she's got this whole cool heading thing she keeps doing, which is a way people can switch off their emotions, basically. Yeah. The synestral incense they use for it.

Yeah. I quite liked that because synestra obviously meaning left and left brain, I'm guessing, as a reference to. And then also... Right brain's the like analytical one, isn't it? Yes. Right brain's the creative one. Yeah.

But also... That might be bullshit. Yeah. Also, the planet is Widdishan, so you've got kind of left and anticlockwise. Oh, well done. Yeah. So, that all kind of ties in together.

And then who else do we have? So, we have Hirshug. Yep. The Phenobic tutor. Hirshug. I like him. We have... I'm not going to go massively into all of these because there's so many.

Yeah. The little swampig. Oh, he's so happy when he was okay. He's so cute. I was like, you did not just kill off a little pet that you just let me know. Don't kill... Fine. Kill off the devoted head of security.

See if I can. Do not kill the little rat friend. Yes. No. I don't kill the small rat friend. There is a depiction. So, I've got the Kirby illustrations. I'm assuming you do as well.

Oh, the cover, you mean? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Again, I'm not sure how I feel about the cover, especially the scantily-clad, large-breasted woman. Oh, we might have different covers. Really?

Oh, we've got very different covers. Mine looks like a Kirby as well, doesn't it? But it's... Mine is like impenetrable... Yeah, it is Kirby. I can see his signature. Yeah. It's like a triple sci-fi, rather than any naked ladies.

Show me again, but hold it further away. Sorry. Hang on a sec. Let me put my... Let me put myself back on. So, I can see what I'm showing. We'll post pictures of all of these various covers. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, no, I like my version better. I think mine's a much later edition. Yeah, that was probably released to fit more in with the... With the Discworld covers, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, Ig, the very sweet little swamp dragon. We've got Kezia, the sister, and... Swamp dragon.

Did you just call him? Oh, God. He is basically a swamp dragon. He is basically a swamp dragon. Did you notice? He's like the various descriptions of him. He was... He's a hermaphrodite.

He lays eggs, and he's... Oh, poipolico something, but that means he can change temperature quite a lot. Yeah. And he's got three sets of legs, none of them the same. Basically a rat plush for a swamp dragon. Yeah. I like it. I want one.

Yeah, Kezia, who was married to someone called Tarmigan. Which is a bird. Yes. I knew that. I definitely didn't have to Google it. Me neither. We have got the smart alec robot companion, Isaac. Good old Isaac.

Who is... There's one bit about Isaac. I'm just finding the page. Do you reckon he's named after Azimov or Newton? I'm going Azimov. Yeah. I think this is around the time that you would name a robot after Isaac Azimov. Would you ever not?

Good point. Dom really doesn't want to actually own the robot and sign the paperwork saying he owns him because it's a... And he's uncomfortable about it. And the robot's like, no, no, I don't want to own myself. And the quote, we robots know exactly why we were created, boss. No striving to find the innermost secrets of our creation. And Dom says, don't you want to be free?

And he says, what now? God blame the universe on me. Yeah. It gave me a little bit of a hint of how self-slave race kind of rubbish, but... Yeah. A little bit. But I'll take it as he's a robot, I guess. Oh, no, no.

Now I'm going to get into the worrying about AI rights in my spare time. No, we're not worrying about it. Anyway, I like him. He's a good character. I like it because it ties in with one of the big central themes of this, which is this idea of fate and how you live your life if everything is fated. And one of my big theories about people who really embrace religion, it's partly as an abdication of responsibility.

Yes. Because it's all God's doing, not your own. Yes. So that perspective of it of if I think of myself as truly human and own myself, then the universe is my responsibility. Yeah. And I don't want to have God blame the universe on me. I think that ties in quite nicely to the central theme of the book.

Yes. And to my thoughts on religion. Yes. Which are varied and mostly angry. And then we have Lady Vianne. Lady Vianne. The... Dom's map.

The sort of absent mother figure who drifts in wearing a large veil and gives a gift and sort of... Yeah. Because she seems to live on this hot planet. I'm imagining her very like Southern Belle kind of... Oh yeah. You know, plantation or aristocrat rubbish. Yes.

Yeah. Sorry, my ankle's just seized up. Which would make sense actually because that seems to be the kind of background of the... There's definitely a vibe of that, especially considering this is such a swampy planet. Yeah. Charles Subluna, who is... Actually, one of the plot points about Charles Subluna isn't revealed until a later bit. You haven't read him.

Okay. Because this is in the chapter you haven't read. He is... But you will have seen his name. So some of the quotes from books within the universe that are used for exhibition... Yeah. The books are by then. He is a poet, polymath and soldier of fortune.

I want that on a business card. Absolutely. So do I. You deserve it more than I do. We've got to write down these business cards. I'm going to make you a whole set of like ridiculous ones to give out to people one day. Excellent. Thank you.

And then this one is bridging the gap between character and locations. And that is the first Syrian bank. Yeah. Who is a planet spanning consciousness who has made himself A into a bank and B acquired human status. Yes. I like how he addresses the kind of lack of care that someone who's basically immortal would have.

I think a lot of sci-fi doesn't do that and makes their immortal beings genuinely concerned with the petty nothings of human drama. And that always stands out to me. And I like that he kind of says, well, no, he's probably just fucking with us. Yeah. He's got what the fuck else is he going to do? But yes, he insists that he is classed as human. He is alive and possessed of a universe for you sufficiently advanced to call him human.

One of my favorite moments with him though. And again, you haven't read to this section because you missed the chapter. It's fine. You can spoil anything you like about chapters. It's not really the spoiler. A, he speaks in small capitals. It's very death. Oh, yeah.

That's a sort of proto-discworldly moment. I love small caps. But he's sort of in his desk, there's a robot. Or at his desk, there is a robot so that there is a humanoid thing to speak to because obviously the consciousness spans the whole planet. Covering wires. And the robot smokes a cigar. And he says, I mean, it's not really an affectation, but it just puts some people at ease if there's

a humanoid smoking a cigar. That's more relaxing to converse with than a planet-sized computer. That's very 70s businessman, isn't it? It's very 70s businessman and I think that's one of the more parody bits of the book. Of course, the planet spanning consciousness is actually smoking a cigar. Also, planet spanning consciousness. Cool band name, very Douglas Adams. Planet spanning consciousness.

Also could go on a business card. Also could go on a business card. Excellent. So NASA's on a business card. And then locations, obviously we've got the planet, Widdishans that we begin on. Yeah. Which is clearly at this point, just a word, practice likes that you've seen in various places. Well, like I said, it ties into lots of sort of anti-clockwise and left-handed things throughout the book.

Yeah, that's true. It's just like a nice bit of odd. Yeah. And one of the, we don't go to many places in this. So we have Widdishans, we end up at the bank, we spend time on the yacht. But one of the places on the planet Widdishans is the Burukku, which is where the Phnombs live. Yes. And it is dressed with the soil of the home planet of the Phnombs because that's quite sacred to them.

Yeah. Did we find out where that planet is yet by the end of part one? What, where the Phnomic planet? Yeah, it's near, it's like, it's within this bubble of planets. It is within this bubble, yeah. Yeah. I don't know exactly where I had a map. But they weren't like, living there when the humans turned up or did they turn up at the same time?

I think a similar time. Okay. I should go back and reread some of it. I've read a lot of this after midnight. On two separate nights, I went back and reread because I didn't quite absorb some of it. And then it was past midnight again, so. Yeah, that's fine. There is, there are whole sections that kind of list what order the planets evolved in

and the races evolved in and how they all came to know each other and travel between planets and blah, blah, blah. But I thought if I marked those, I'd end up just reading out massive passages of the book and our listeners can read the book for themselves, gosh darn it. We believe in you. Go on guys, you can do it. Dear little legs. Dear little listeners on there, dear little legs. I assume all of our listeners are grasshoppers who listen with their legs.

Yeah, that tracks. That absolutely tracks. So little bits. Little bits we liked. Little bits we liked. First one being the name of the thing in the thing. Gotta love the name of the thing being in the thing. Oh yeah, what context was that?

This is the poem that was the first piece of the Joker's writing to be translated with the help of a poet and a mad computer. Yes. You who stand before us, we have held the stars in the hollow of our hands and the stars burn. Pray be careful now as to how you handle them. We have gone to wait on our new world. There is but one and it lies at the dark side of the sun. Bit derivative in it. Yep.

A couple that's more like singlet. Yeah, so this is the sort of prophecy that's being followed to try and find the Joker's world. Yeah. Which is cute. And obviously a reference to the dark side of the moon. Which? Yeah, there was a nice bit in Mark's book about the title. Like this was written the same year that Dark Side of the Moon came out.

And that it nearly had a different title because, funnily enough, quite a lot of sci-fi authors were titling books with parodies of Dark Side of the Moon. Yeah. Nerds. Fucking nerds. And then one of the other bits I liked was, especially in the opening first few chapters, there's just quite a lot of one-on-one dialogues. Okay.

There's so lots of, so you have Dom and the Pilex Smuggler, you have lots of Corridor and Joan, you have Dom and his sister. Yeah. Dom and the robot. And I like that as a structural thing. I really love it to wildly off topic, but Game of Thrones at the early seasons has lots of these amazing one-on-one dialogue scenes.

Okay. That it kind of lost as the budget got bigger in favour of big dramatic battles and things. And it's a shame because I really think the dialogue was one of the things that showed it really well. It's good for character building, relationship building, exposition, all of that. Exactly. Yeah. And I like it here as well because I can't help but read something like this without thinking about how I'd adapt it. Yeah.

And I think that would make a really good opening half hour if you would, because this would be a movie, this wouldn't work as a TV series. Yeah. But an opening half hour of lots of those dialogues interspersed with the occasional big dramatic violent moments because it's sort of punctuated by the attempts on Dom's life. Yeah, yeah. I think that's an interesting way to structure it. So I like those.

And then obviously there's lots of little proto-discworld bits. Yeah, for sure. Including this one, the first reference I noticed isn't a Discworld reference. They're not references because the Discworld didn't exist. There's a reference to something else. And I like that Lord of the Rings reference got shoehorned even into the sci-fi book. When Dom is dreaming as he's being rebuilt and he's having a conversation with the robot and the robot's sort of doing all these sarcastic answers of,

oh, this is your destiny, this is your destiny. If you want it straight from the shoulder, you're not important at all, but you happen to have this magic bracelet which was made by the God of the Universe and he wants it back and you're going to get together a few trusted friends and travel many a weary light year to the searing fires of Rigel. Yeah. So I like it because that whole section has lots of plays on these atropie things in novels. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But then you also got... Yes, one of those bits where practice is like, ah, I'm going to shove in a whole bunch of stuff I want to in here for funsies. It's a very fun page. You've got the idea of assassins and assassination. I know that's not specifically Discworld, but it's definitely a theme that perhaps it does come back to in the Discworld quite heavily. Yeah, yeah.

And some of the thoughts on knowing who's assassinating you and whether you should look up or not is definitely very... Yeah, for sure. And then there's a whole page, I think it's 67 in mind, where you've got reference to Soulcake Friday. Yeah. Which eventually in the Discworld books will become Soulcake Tuesday. The Eve of Small Gods.

And that's definitely the next Discworld book we're going to be doing is called Small Gods. There's the idea of a clatch. And that's a word that will come back as a location. Even Hogswatch Night is mentioned. Yeah, yeah. Let's see if there's anything else I found. Like, oh, the year names, like the... What was it?

It's a named year along the same theme. Yeah, there's a few of those. The year of the questing monkey was when the planet was settled. Hmm. Yeah, yeah. No, there's clearly a bunch of ideas that he's then going to spread out a bit later. Yeah. The big thematic one, which is kind of the theme of the whole book,

the idea that Dom survives these assassination attempts means they are on this one timeline in all of the different multiverses. Yeah. And the actual line, a student of probability soon realizes that by its nature, the billion-to-one chance crops up nine times out of ten. Yes. And then obviously that's the theme that comes back quite heavily in the Discworld. So that one made me smile.

Yeah. Yeah. And then I noticed as well, there's quite a lot of proto-long-earth stuff in here. Yeah. So the term jokers... Will eventually get reused in the long-earth? Yeah, will be used not as a species, but as a type of universe. The idea that the universe you're in at the moment is called datum,

that's straight out of long-earth. Yeah. And yeah, just the whole idea of the universe is stretching out on either side of you is very that. Well, there's a nice little... So the long-earth series only... I can't remember when the first one came out now, but it's comparatively recent. Yeah. It was in the last couple of decades.

Yeah. The most... Yeah, yeah. So yeah, so it was between 2010 and 2020. Yeah. I can't remember the exact years. But the idea for the series existed much longer. There's an anecdote in Mark's book where after equal rights,

apparently Terry Pratchett was talking to Neil Gaiman and said, oh, I've got this idea for this series and outlined basically the first long-earth book. Yeah. And Neil Gaiman said, that's great. But I think at some point you should come back to this death character. He's my favourite. And Terry Pratchett apparently phoned him back and went, you bastard, the next one's called Malt.

Yeah. Which is good because he ended up collaborating with Stephen Baxter on it. And Stephen Baxter is a very, very good sci-fi writer. Yeah. And I know a lot of people don't like... A lot of Discworld fans don't like the long-earth, I think probably for this reason, because the structure is very Baxter.

And I think a lot of the heart and the ideas and the energy is very Pratchett, but it's written as a sci-fi. Yeah. The characters are very Pratchett, but it is within a very sci-fi structure. I think they're great books. Yeah, I fucking love it. But then again, I was a fan of Baxter's anyway,

and I like this kind of sci-fi. I've never read any other Stephen Baxter, and I really ought to. Oh, I'll send you recommendations for a good couple. Like it's very prolific. Thank you. And yeah, there's some... We were already saying there was lots of Douglas Adams-esque stuff. Yeah.

I think my favourite line along those lines was... On the other side of the OTT, the universe composed almost entirely of nothing with a trace of hydrogen. By which it means all of existence, which predates Hitchhiker's Guide by a few years, but you would believe it was taken straight from it if you hadn't read this. They definitely both... You can tell they were written around similar times

in both by very clever, very funny people doing sci-fi. Yeah. A lot of the things I was noticing is Douglas Adams-esque are really just big 70s sci-fi tropes. I probably would have another level of appreciation for this book if I had read more 70s sci-fi, to be perfectly honest. Well, that's... Reading a lot more 70s sci-fi is a big commitment

to just get another level of this short book, so I think you're all right. Yeah, I didn't do a lot of supplementary reading around it because there are a finite number of hours in the day, and I have got to spend a lot of those eating snacks. That is mostly what I've done for the last week. I've seen a lot of snacks. Yes.

What else have we got in little bits? Sun dogs. Oh, sun dogs. Yes. I just thought it was a nice concept, and in particular, I liked when they were taking off for the first time. It goes, to be ready, to be steady, go.

Just... I enjoyed the sun dogs. They've got great names as well. Yeah. I... What is it? Abramelan Lincoln stroke, Anno Barbas stroke,

50.3 Anno Barbas, McMermidom. This one is called... McMermidom. McMermidom. Yeah. If you... The second half of the book has a lot more insight

into sort of their culture and existence as well. Oh, does it? Oh, good. Because I like sun dogs. Good. Good. I don't have time to read this today, but I really want to just finish the book.

Yeah. So, onto the bigger stuff. And the thing that really struck me the most about this, the thing I enjoyed the most was the world building. Yeah. It is such a thoroughly realized world in such a few pages. Yeah. We've talked a lot about his world building in relation to the disc world

and the kind of slow burn of it, how you can see him build more and more layers onto this place he's creating as the books go on. Yeah. Which a lot of has to do with the fact that it's such a long series that you can keep adding layers to it. Yeah. Whereas this is the opposite.

This is a slam. Here is the world. Yeah. I think it was kind of inexpertly done in the first bit of the book. The fact that he tried to kind of mention as many things in the first 10 pages as possible. Yeah. The Dagons and the Blue Flamingos and everything at once.

I think that's quite a common sci-fi thing. It is. It is absolutely. And it always makes me go, Oh, so if he's doing a pastiche, it wasn't wrong to do it, but it did make me go, Oh, not this shit.

The idea of this kind of proto race that has since disappeared is a very common sci-fi trope. The jokers, there are versions of it across so many different sci-fi stories, but I think it's well done here. Yeah. I like the rest of it. I like the rest of the exposition in the world building,

just that first few pages was a bit annoying for me. Yeah. Like literally, I love all of the random tendons into literature and lectures and... Yeah. I like heavy-handed exposition in something like this. I'd much rather something almost gave me like a textbook of,

Okay, here is the world. Now here is the story in it. Yes. But that dive in where it's like, Okay, here's a person and he's doing a weird thing, but I'm going to write about it like it's normal because it is for this world. Yes.

That I really struggle with. Yeah. And it can be very well done. But yeah, I think this was a few too many things too quickly and it certainly put me off the first term and I would guess it would put a few readers off. Yeah. I think once it settles into the story

and starts giving you the actual pages of exposition... Yes. I think once Don was basically on the raft, I was great. Yeah. I was good from there. Literally just the first few pages. I was like, Oh, you're doing fucking what?

What's that? Oh, the sun has a different name. Does it? Great. Yeah. It's not necessary. I like that the book doesn't force you to learn all of it as well.

Yeah. I think that was my problem. I was trying to internalize it. Yeah. Which like I said, I'll have to let the book wash over you and it becomes much more enjoyable experience. Yeah.

There's so many different races, but they are quite nicely sort of outlined. So you've obviously, you've got the humans, humanoids who are slightly differently involved, depending on the planets they've grown up in, like on Widdishans because of the high UV, everyone is black and hairless.

Yeah. Although that was partly because of injections as well, wasn't it? Yeah. Which I was glad it excels. I was like, I don't think you'd evolve that quickly over four generations,

even if they're long generations. They've established extras. There's... Sorry. I'm finding there's a good page on 98.99 in my book. I'm not sure what it would be in yours that goes just through all of the different races

in detail. Yeah. So you've got man, phnomes, drossks, spooners, obviously the creep eye. I quite like how quickly...

I was definitely reading it creepy. Because it's two eyes. I'm not sure if... Maybe it's creepy eye. Creepy eye. Great. Do you usually pronounce two eyes, eye?

I don't... I have no idea. Yeah, no. I'm trying to... Never mind. It's not important. It's not. I really like when an entire cultural belief

is established with really small details. So the phnomes have... You have phnomes like Hirshen, who is a scholar. He's a philosopher and he studies probability. He's reading the Stoics at one point. Yeah.

And then you have the alpha male types, who are a lot flashier. And Hirshen has to pretend to be one who is really uncomfortable with it. Yeah. But when small details are used to really establish the nature of a culture, so one of them being when they go into

interspace and all the sort of illusions happen. Yeah. The quote I had earlier. Dom quite enjoys it. Phnomes... I've written down the wrong page number. But Hirshen is horrified by it.

He's hiding under the table. He's scared because for him it's like, what if I become untethered from reality and cease to exist? Yeah. And because he spends so much time thinking about the nature of reality, I found it very relatable.

Yeah. They were the cerebral race. Yeah. And he says humans can be more resilient. And at this point, it's because you don't think about it as much. Yeah. You don't think about what happens

if you stop existing quite as often. Yeah. And then the creepy eye, who are the... Or creepy, or what we're calling them, who are this big cerebral race who evolved very slowly...

Yeah. ...to think about things. It's almost like a race of deep thought. Yeah. I like... And I think I want to talk about it a lot more so I was saving it for next week. But I like the kind of glimpse

into the different kinds of life and the fact that there's a lot that you can't even comprehend. But maybe this race can comprehend this race and say we can use them as a go-between and all of that. Yeah. There's little links between the different...

Yeah. That's one of my favourite sci-fi tropes when it's well done. Yeah. Creating entire races in general and establishing a whole culture for them, again with the Phnomes and the Burukku and the fact that they need to live

on their own sacred ground. Yeah. All of those little details make me really enjoy this, the world building of this. Yeah. Because it's not just this is a race and this is what they're like

and it's more... Yeah. This is a race Yes. Yeah. Yeah. See, for me, like I enjoy that,

but I almost care... I think I care about the culture and the details of their race less than I do the idea that he hints that there's more forms of life out there that we just can't properly look at. Like I'm like,

yeah, that's a nice species for the cool culture, but what about these ones we can't comprehend? Obviously we can't, so we can't go into it, but I like the idea that they're there. I can't wait to become uncomfortable. Some of our listeners might say I'm there already. By via plan.

Yeah. So... You have something about the types of exposition as well, was that? Yeah. I think that's basically what I've been kind of talking about already, just the difference between having

the textbook dropped in there and the kind of mention of a, oh, well, I'm here. Allow me to use my totally normal clam sale. Which, yeah, both can be good when used well. I think he did the... Former... Dropping in better than he did the...

In the context one. Yeah, just the throwing things at everyone. Yeah. He's already like showing obvious signs of being Pratchett, unsurprisingly, as he is, and in his late 20s already. But just, you can tell how well and miscellaniously read he is

by the references he's dropping in everywhere already. Yeah, he says... So folklore and myth and everything on top of all the sci-fi, he's like can't help himself, he's got to add in. The folkloric stuff and the... Yeah, and I feel like this is the other thing I'll probably talk about more next week,

but the religion he's built for it, I feel like it's an excuse to put in as many esoteric references as he could. Yeah, this is the sadimism. Yes, which is... When you read it out loud in your head, out loud in your head, when you read it, you're like, hmm...

Sadim is... Yeah, I know, you can't say that in a good way. Sadism. Sadism, yeah, let's call it sadism, which is some kind of environmental thing anyway. But yeah, just the various references throughout. I mean, the fact that his grandmother's dressed in what's he called it,

nocticular heckate robes, which like heckate obviously, but then nocticular is some fairly obscure part of the moon goddess, I think, which is now used in D&D-based folklore. But as far as I can tell, that all happened after this book. So he's read it in some fucking old books there. Yeah.

And then the knives they use is like a thame, which is a ceremonial blade, and like Dagon is used for the first time here, and Dagon is half woman, half fish thing from some philistine god. Yeah, this came up like that comes up elsewhere in Pratchett. I can't even remember which one that might be Men of Arms. With the cursed shop on Dagon Street.

See, I have this problem as well with a lot of the weird mythical and folkloric references. Bingo cards out, but Buffy. Oh, Jesus. It's been a while. Because there's lots of the paranormal stuff happening and witches doing spells and things, they will quite often.

It looks like they've gone through an old copy of Brewer's and just randomly pointed at something. So there'll be prayers to Hecate or Hecate. There's a thing called a Dagon Sphere that's a very important plot point. So I just... That's a woman fish spear. That makes a lot of sense in the context.

Yeah, it's what made it take quite a long time for me to read even the first half of this very short book because... You want to look everything up? Yeah, I want to look everything up. You know me. Yeah. Oh, I also liked Momit as the bit of his brain

that you can rebuild from. Yeah. Which is like... There's like a voodoo doll, I think. Yeah, it's a... Which I almost certainly also learned from Pratchett. It's a doll that represents a human in some way. So not just within voodoo, but other versions of...

It's like a catch-all term. I believe I could be wrong. Listeners, let me know. Answers on a arcane stone. Answers carved into an arcane stone that we will somehow come across in later years. Answers on an obelisk. Answers on an obelisk planted in ancient city

several centuries ago. Thank you. Yeah. And the last talking point, the last but definitely not least is yours, which is the nature of fate and probability. Please do. Go on about that nonsense. This is the theme of the book.

There is this idea that there are... There is a different universe for every different thing that could have happened. Yeah. And that Dom surviving his birthday was a billion to one chance, but has happened and has now put them on this particular universe's timeline where Dom is alive and Dom keeps surviving

and is apparently fated to find the Joker's world. The chapter that you haven't read, the bank goes into running probability things on him. The whole idea of probability math, ordaining things. And I just think it's really fascinating. I can't say that in a way that the listeners can even hear. The pylac smuggler that rescues Dom at the beginning refers to it as beta, which is the Phenobic concept

of probability and fate. Yeah. There's an interesting... So, Dom hasn't been made aware of probability math existing. He's being kept... Yeah, he grasped it pretty fucking quickly, though, didn't he? Yeah. But Joan and Corridor have a conversation about it.

And there's a really interesting... Corridor is basically saying, I know it's absolutely predicted he's going to die, but I suppose I'm hoping. I can't believe it 100%. Yeah. And it's that belief and it's that hope that allows Corridor to save him.

Yeah. But he's saying, I can't pretend to understand it, but if the universe is so immutable that the future can be told by a handful of numbers, why do we need to keep living? And Joan responds with, we go on because to live is still better to die and that's always been the choice of humanity.

And that is such an interesting thing, this idea of if everything is pre-ordained, can you... What is the point of making a decision you feel... And obviously it's bollocks because you can't predict the future. Or can you? No. Okay.

Are we? I am. I don't know why you're bringing me on board. Yes, because you are such a firm believer in things like believing the prediction of the future. Well, as I can say, yes. As a German, I don't believe in style science. Yeah.

I philosophically speaking on board with Joan, because even if you can't tell the future and everything's pre-ordained, to live is better than to die, as we know. Yeah. My firm desire to never ever die. Yeah, you've barely ever mentioned that. Yeah, well, nearly as many times as you've never mentioned Buffy.

There's another line about it I really love as well, which is later when Dom is talking to the bank and he's sort of explaining, the bank is explaining like, yes, this is the high probability. But do you know why you've decided to go and look for the jokers? And Dom says, well, it seems like the right thing to do now.

It feels like the most right choice. And I'm not really sure why. And the bank responds with, were you accepted fate? A philosophic drosk would say, you heard today's echo of tomorrow's scream. Oh, Jesus, all right. But it's the central thing of this book is that

Dom is completely allowing his life to be directed by what he's apparently fated to do. And that argument that comes sort of back again and again when you start thinking about fate and preordained things is, am I doing this because I've been told it's fated? Or is this fated? And that's why I'm doing this. Self-fulfilling prophecy kind of stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think having such a massive lofty existential theme in a pastiche of pulp sci-fi written in the mid-70s is why I'm not practicing that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's, hmm. It's almost surprising he never revisits the exact theme later. Well, like I said, a bit of it comes back in this millions one chances idea. Yeah. But the idea of, I'm sure the idea of self-fulfilling prophecy does as well. But as an almost cohesive theme,

it doesn't, maybe he can never quite make it cohesive. Yeah. But it works here. I think it works for this specific book. Yeah. And, yeah, tied in with probability and things. It is more sci-fi than fantasy.

So I can. Especially, yeah, the nature of calculating and. Yeah. Yeah. How much do you enjoy? Know whatever probability statistics. I quite enjoy it. That side of mathematics.

I did study it. Obviously, it's all quite a while, since I've officially studied anything, but I did study statistics and probability. Yeah. Back when I was studying things. And it's always quite interesting to me, because it's such a fallible area of mathematics.

Right. Because there is never a way to account for every single variable. Yes. And it's such a. And most people don't even try. No. Which is why statistics down statistics, et cetera.

Yeah. Statistics alone are not a great way to work things out. And correlation doesn't equal causation. It's always a fun thing to scream at people. Mm-hmm. Yeah. My dad has a PhD in statistics. So if you get him started, he will.

I've gotten into discussions of statistics with your dad and realized that there is just a lot I don't know. Well, that's that's fair considering you did A level. And yeah, again. No, GCSE, not even A level. Oh, OK. Right. Oh, in theory, then I also studied that.

I don't remember. I did it as an extra GCSE on taking my standard maths. Gotcha. Yeah. I went to about five of the classes and got a B. Oh, what then? Yes. I remember when I was good at things.

But yeah, so that's what I think I've enjoyed the most about reading this as it's such it's literally Pratchett's second novel. Yeah. And you can see the weaknesses in the writing, you know, the dialogues as much as I like all those one on ones, it's a bit clunky. The world building is fantastic.

But that this kind of heavy exposition, you wouldn't get in a disc world book. Yeah. But that big core of Pratchett of using this huge idea, sneaking it up on you during what is a fun pastiche. Yeah. In a fun genre is it is very pratchety. Yeah.

I would say than the first couple of his disc world books. Yeah. There was no big central background idea really running across colour of magic, certainly. I mean, like fantastic at the villainy and the stupidity of people. Yeah. Yeah. Which is so we've throughout all of Pratchett's writing,

it's hardly even a theme, is it? Just a fact at this point. Just an acknowledgement. Yeah. No, I am enjoying it so far. I will enjoy the rest of it when I'm meant to be doing something else later. Excellent. I'm so proud of you.

But it's nice to come back and see where things started. Yes. I think that might end up being a bit of a theme ish for this year. Yeah. That we do more of looking at the early stuff and how we got to where we are. Yeah. I've never read Johnny and the Dead. None of them.

I've never read Strata. I've read some actual new ground cover in amongst our big old re-read. Yeah. So it's nice. I am quite looking forward to coming back because I haven't read a lot of the non-disguelds. Yeah. I've read Dodger. I've read Nation.

I've read Long Earth. Yeah. His name. But the hardbacks. Yeah. But I haven't read the older non-disguelds. So this is a fun journey for us. Well, Romelia had I read when I was a kid.

Yeah. Little mini journey on top of our big journey. Yeah. Journey. Journey with a small journey. Journets. No. Okay.

That one doesn't work. Go back. Do you have an obscure reference for Neil? Yeah. I mean, it was fucking full of them, wasn't it? Yeah. But I picked one in particular because I liked the rhyme. When he's rebuilding his consciousness or being chivvied along into that, he recites

the Green Paternoster, which as a good Catholic, you will know of course that Paternoster means Lord's Prayer. Absolutely. As a not very good Catholic, you might know that the Black Paternoster, you familiar with? No. It could refer to a bunch of stuff, but it's like bedtime rhymes, prayers kind of thing that are very, that are Catholic because Protestants are all uptight about that shit.

Like the one you'll definitely know is Matthew, Mark, Luke and John bless the bed that I lie on. Yeah. But the one in the book is definitely a reference to an old obscure one. So the one in the book goes, okay, Green Paternoster. Sadim was my foster. He saved me under the poison tree. He was made of flesh and blood to send me my right food, mine right food and heir to,

that I might be a foe and stop at two to read in that sweet book, which the great God's Choup, open, open, save me dead, dead, shall see half the population roster and save the Green Prayer Paternoster. So the idea of a Green Paternoster was condemned by the Bishop of Lincoln. Of course. Back in the 11 or 1200s, maybe 1200s. But the, this one, I'm pretty sure is a slight alteration on the white Paternoster, which is from like the 1600s, I think.

I have so many of these in various places here. Here it is. God was my foster. He fostered me under the book of palm tree. St. Michael was my dame. He was born at Bethlehem. He was made of flesh and blood. God sent me my right food, mine right food and dine to, that I might, that I may to

Yon Kirk go to read upon Yon's sweet book, which the mighty God of Heaven's Choup. So Choup was correct. Open, open, Heaven's Yeats. State, stake, Hell's Yeats. All the saints be better that hear the white prayer Paternoster. Choup, by the way, seems to be the past tense of shape. So it's shaped Choup, which I would petition to bring back. Yeah.

I'm going to bring that back. Yeah. So this is the kind of stuff that Pratchett enjoys anyway. Reading stuff that's just slightly oddly spelled in an archaic way, because as we shall see in Discworld. Yes. Many archaic works. Open, open, Heaven's Yeats.

I like. Mmm. Yeah. That's my obscure reference for Neil, which I actually have this week, unlike last time. I enjoyed that. Good. I'll say, well, no, I'll put it in the show and it's the, yeah, the link to all of them. It's your kind of nonsense.

The Paternoster. Yeah. It is absolutely my sort of nonsense. Is it Paternoster? I think it's Paternoster. Paternoster. Pater like father. Pater.

Yeah. Yeah. Paternoster. Anyway, I've had random versions of them in my head all morning, so that's nice. Excellent. Now, I'm glad that's haunting you. I've got the stupid Tumblr post you sent me the other day stuck in my head. Sorry.

Hello, my baby. Hello, my honey. Hello, darkness, my old friend. Yeah. It's brought that joy. My apologies, listeners. So I think that's everything we've got to say about the first half. A bit of admin before we outro.

Yeah. We did mention in December that we were going to split this book into two parts rather than three. So next week, we will be going from chapter seven to the end. Francine will have also read chapter six. Hopefully. Might just skip that one. Yeah.

It's fine. We were originally going to be talking about the watch series this month, but it didn't occur to us that it wasn't coming out in the UK when it comes out in America and Australia. So we won't be talking about that until it comes out in the UK because we'd both rather watch it legally. So that will be. It's not a morality thing. I just can't be bothered to work out torrenting.

Yeah. It's morality for me. It's laziness for you either way. We'll be putting it off until March or so. We're not sure when it's coming out yet. Which means if you do have thoughts on it, please don't tell us yet because we are going to try and go into it very open-minded, aren't we Francine? Yeah.

Sure. If you say so. Maybe. I mean, I'm being a bit less good. A bit less good. I'm being a bit worse than you at reading things like reviews. But yeah, I quite often disagree with reviews of things. So I don't really mind.

Yes. I'm avoiding any reviews and what have yous until we get there. Yeah. So we'll be back next week with the second half of Dark Side of the Sun. We will possibly also bring you some kind of bonus nonsense before the end of the month. Yeah. Because there's any two episodes in this book. So on week three, you'll probably hear from us was not being relevant.

Nonsense. Yeah. Nothing even slightly relevant. But a fun time will be had by all. Yes. And then we'll be back on the disc in February with Small Gods. One of the big ones. Ironically.

Yeah. Small Gods big book. Actually, one of the early hardbacks I have. Thanks to you. Oh, yeah. In the meantime, though, of course, thank you for listening to The Truth Shall Make You Fret. Please rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts and subscribe to us and tell other

people about us. Because it's very old emphasis is on emphasis on words here, Joanna. Thank you for listening. Thank you for listening to The Truth Shall Make You Fret. Please rate or review and subscribe. You're doing a bit of Matt Berry. Sometimes the spirit of Matt Berry just overtakes me. I've accepted it.

We're going with it. In the meantime, until next week, you can follow us on Instagram at The Truth Shall Make You Fret on Twitter at Make You Fret Pods. On Facebook at The Truth Shall Make You Fret, you can join our subreddit, r slash t t s m y f. You can email us your thoughts, queries, castle snacks and albatrossi pods. The Truth Shall Make You Fret Pods and obelisks. The Truth Shall Make You Fret Pods at gmail.com.

And in the meantime, dear listener, don't let us detain you. I've written down something I didn't mention because it didn't matter, but everything is damp. God, it was unpleasant reading half of that. It is a very wet book. I was really cold when I was reading it. It was like, oh, man, this would be much nicer to read in the summer. Jesus, what a humid planet.

Yeah, I did have to be in a very nest of blankets while reading. A very nest of blankets. A very, I can't speak today. The fact that we got through that episode at all is a fucking miracle.