The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - 5: The Long Earth Part 1 (Elephants and Airships)

Episode Date: July 6, 2025

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan and Francine Carrel have emerged from Discworld and are now exploring the worlds of speculative fiction. This week, The Long Earth, Part 1. (Chapters 1-25) Potatoes! Ferrous Postcards! Reinvented Loincloths! Find us on the internet:BlueSky: @makeyefretpod.bsky.socialInstagram: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretFacebook: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: [e-mail]: www.patreon.com/thetruthshallmakeyefretDiscord: https://discord.gg/29wMyuDHGP Want to follow your hosts and their internet doings? Follow Joanna on BlueSky @2hatsjo and follow Francine @francibambi Things we blathered on about:Evolution (Baxter novel) - Wikipedia The Long Earth by Terry Pratchett and Stephen Baxter – review - The Guardian Terry Pratchett and Stephen Baxter on The Long Earth - The Guardian video interview Lobsang Rampa - Wikipedia Gomphothere - Wikipedia [not golophonts or whatever I said]Skunk Works - WikipediaMusic: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.com

But now we finished Discworld, I am free of the post at tyranny. Self-imposed post at tyranny. How's your life apart from the injured backs, burning wasps, etc? It's fine. It's been too hot because English heatwaves are horrific. So I ended up taking Monday and Tuesday. I am very, very privileged in that I can set my own hours and I have a longer space to my deadline. So when I could not think enough to

write on Monday and Tuesday, I went, I'm going to stop sitting at my computer, which is in an upstairs room, which is hotter, smashing my face on the keyboard going, uh. That wasn't working. It was a creative process, you mean? Weirdly. Yeah, that did not miraculously make a trap to happen. Well, that's unfortunate because that was really what I was relying on for when I finally get around to writing and work. Yeah, no's unfortunate because that was really what I was relying on for when I finally get around to writing in book. Yeah, no, I'm sorry to disappoint you. I've tried it.

I've tried it and as a technique does not work as well as actual writing. Oh, all right. Well, if you're sure. Yeah. So then when the weather cooled down Wednesday and Thursday, it was like, right, motherfucker, I'm doing 6,000 words in two days and finishing the bastard chapter. That's good.

Good. Yeah, that was fun. Yeah. And just like that is awful. This is the new Sex and the City sequel series. It's so bad. And I do feel like it's almost, they went, oh, the viewers hate everything we're doing, but lots of people are watching to hate watch maybe let's keep doing it. I feel like that's what's happening. That's the only explanation for it being this bad. What's wrong with it? It's just this season specifically, there's like no direction to the plot. That doesn't feel like any kind of overarching plot across the season. There are things that carry over from episode to episode, but it's just lots of very long delve in yes. None of the characters

seem like who they were in the original and not in a way where they've aged and matured. They just seem like it's bad fan fiction. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And awful choices. There's just random plot holes that don't make sense. Everyone is just very stupid. It's just a shit awful show that I can't stop watching. What makes it so compelling? I've been thinking about that and why I'm submitting myself to this every week and a

bit of it is I am a very, I've started to a Finnish person. Yeah, yeah. I'm kind of fascinated by it because Sex and the Society wasn't something I watched like when it was on because I was a little bit young for it. But I've binge-watched it like a couple of times since and obviously tons of it is weirdly dated and kind of problematic, but it was also like a great show. And I kind of want to see if it could ever get back to that or see if it could be compelling. Also, like some of the outfits are still really fun to

look at. But also there's a bit of like watching a car crash or a train wreck, you know, like you kind of can't quite look away. It's a little bit that. Yeah, yeah. People say that. I don't think I've yet found the TV show that makes me do that. But I'm not saying that that wouldn't happen. Also I think a bit of me is very interested in the fact that the original Sex and the City had half hour episodes and this is like hour long times little wise and how that affects the rhythms of the show. So there is a bit of watching it from like a TV nerd point of view. On the plus side,

there's also a new series of The Gilded Age out which is much better, completely nonsensical and full of bustles and you know I love a bustle. I know you love a bustle. It's very easy to forget plot holes when there's a bustle filling the gap. What's nice about The Gilded Age is that there aren't plot holes. It's just the plots are ridiculous because it's made by the same guy who made Downton Abbey. So the biggest drama of the last season was a huge fight because a girl had decided to teach watercolour painting lessons. Right. So not plot holes so much as the plot was already crafted in a kind of lace fashion. Yeah. Yeah. With some laughing gas definitely involved in places. There's a massive, very important plot about

a footman inventing a new part for an alarm clock. I like that. Maybe I'll watch this. I feel like you could enjoy it and the outfits are great. Okay, right. Let's talk about things we're meant to. Oh yeah, sorry. I just rambled about TV. Do you want to make a podcast? No, you're fine. I kept asking questions. Sorry, say that again. Do you want to make a podcast? No, you're fine. I kept asking questions. Sorry, say that again. Do you want to make a podcast? Yeah, let's make a podcast.

Hello and welcome to The True Show Make You Fright podcast in which we were reading and recapping every book from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series. Now we're talking about all sorts of things including today, The Long Earth, part one. The Long Earth, part one, also by Terry Pratchett. And Stephen Baxter. Stephen Baxter. What a delight. Note on spoilers before we crack on.

I don't think we intend to spoil anything major from the Discworld in these episodes. As far as our discussion of The Long Earth series goes, we won't be spoiling any major future events in the series. We'll be spoiler light and take this events in the series, we'll be spoiler light and take this one at a time as we usually do. So you, dear listener, can come on the journey with us. East or West as your preference, just don't forget to stop to throw up. And don't forget your potato. And don't forget your potato, goodness sake. I don't think we've got anything to follow up on. Certainly nothing I can remember. It's one of those ones if we leave enough time between

things, anything we do have to follow up on is gone, unfortunately, from our brains. Thank you to everybody who said nice things about the last episodes we did. Yes, no problem. Francine, do you want to introduce us to the book, The Long Earth? Sarah He taught maths, physics and IT before becoming a full-time author. He's a chartered engineer. He knows his stuff. He's got an extremely long list of awards and successful books. I'd recommend Evolution as a good starting point for our listeners because it's a bunch of short stories that span hundreds, millions of years of human evolution. It's very much speculative fiction. I'd say it's a bit easier to get your teeth into than some of the long series of space-based interstellar. Well long series of space based interstellar. Well, it's a bit interstellar. But you know what I mean. It's good. That's my recommendation.

Like Pratchett though, Baxter is prolific. As the Guardian review of the Long Earth opened, you know the way books include a page listing previously published works by the author? The Long Earth, that list runs to five pages and includes 112 titles. Sarah The Long Earth is a concept that which we knew already, I think, was first explored by Pratchett a long time ago in fragments of short stories when he was also writing early Discworld stuff. The latter became, as you might imagine, quite time consuming. The Long Earth literally lived in a drawer for decades. Pratchett eventually dug it out again, thinking, as he put it,

there's some good stuff here, but it is a big thing. Enter Stephen Baxter. Baxter and Pratchett met at a post-Clarke Awards dinner around 20 years before The Long Earth was published. They got on right away and kept in touch through the fan circuit and other social occasions. Pratchett sought back to the obvious person to go to when he needed someone who could say the word quantum and actually know what it meant. The two spent six months swapping ideas over telephone and email before meeting for a long weekend to hash out an outline. Both followed the same narrative threads and they eventually met again to meld and polish the whole. The novel when it came out was pretty successful. It was on the New York Times bestseller list for several weeks

and it won the Goodreads Choice Awards 2012 for science fiction. Sarah- Nice. Emma- And I liked it very much at the time and again now. Sarah- I really enjoyed this actually. On the sort of pre-existing bit, there's a nice bit in Rob's book about the early beginnings of the long earth, which is that it was a short story. A Life with Footnotes. A Life with Footnotes by Rob Wilkins, which we do recommend. It was originally a short story called The High Megas that he was going to start expanding. It was after he'd written Equal Rights and

his plan was to go to the High Megas after that. A name we won't mention said something about wanting to hear more about the Death character and that went to You Bastard. It's called Mort and that was where the trousers of time split. Yes. Bifurcated. Bifurcated. I feel like splitting the time trousers may have a different and catastrophic effect on one's universe. And that's why one does their best to not wear trousers of time that are too tight. Very important to have a bit of room in one's time trousers. But yeah, I really liked this when it came out when I first read it, but not as much as I liked Discworld by any stretch of the imagination because I'm much more of a fantasy fan than

a sci-fi fan. Reading it this time around, I realized I've matured a lot since then because I don't think this is one I've like gone back to and reread much either. So it almost felt like reading it for the first time, although I kind of knew who the characters were and remembered what was going to happen as it was happening. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And you read like her name and you're like, Oh, oh, you're definitely important later. And it's made me want to go and read a ton more speculative fiction. So I know what I'm doing with our month off next month.

Yeah, got anything lined up? Not yet. Apart from Ray Bradbury, which I know not all technically speculative fiction, but you've been bugging me to... You bought me a lovely copy of The Martian Chronicles, which I've still not got around to reading. Like a decade ago now? Not that long ago. It's getting there. No, it's not been that long, has it? It has been a while and I do feel really guilty about not reading it, but you know what it's like and then my brain goes, ah, you feel bad about not reading it. Well, then you shan't. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why I usually finish what we're about to talk about the day before

at best. Yeah. So yes, apart from Ray Bradbury, I don't have anything else lined up. So I'm very open to recommendations from you and from our dear listeners. There might be time to start reading through the Pratchett recommendation list, of course. There is that. Evolution Man. That's a nice short one. It would be nice to read some newer stuff as well.

Oh yes, I suppose new books do exist. Yes. There are books you can read that come out new when they come out. We did that last month, remember? We read a new one. Oh yeah, that's right. We did. That was massive.

Yeah, wasn't that exciting? No. Which, so yeah, open to the recommendations, please send them along. Shall we talk about the book The Long Earth a bit more then? Yes. Shall I tell you what happened in this first section? Yes. Less. Where does this section go up to? This is chapter one through chapter 25, inclusive Francine. And fingers crossed. We know it's inclusive.

You say that. It's got at least one gay character. And hopefully by the time this episode comes out, I will have already posted somewhere that we're doing chapters 1 through 25. Maybe. If I remember. Possibility. We're professionals. In this section, Percy Blackney exchanges war for the trees. Maria Valiente gives birth to her son Joshua

and a tremendous organism, has an idea. An older Joshua Valiente is invited to TransEarth and meets Alina and Lobsang, the Tibetan motorcycle repairman turned super computer. Lobsang has leverage and invites Joshua on a journey. In flashbacks we see how young Joshua takes charge on step day and how Monica Janssen investigates the burned house of Willis Lindsay and discovers stepping just in time. In the early days of stepping, idiots find gold, Sally Lindsay steps away, Joshua finds himself frustrated as the long earths fill up and Monica gets a promotion. In the present day, Lobsang presents Joshua with a travel plan and Joshua finds himself willing to go. So, Joshua travels to a Siberia a few steps west and takes off in the vast airship

that is also Lobsang. After a pioneering interlude, Joshua and Lobsang discuss the nature of the Long Earth as the airship continues to step. Joshua goes down to a far earth and meets mysterious singers. Lobsang tells him the story of Percy Blackney and the pair spar and prepare to visit the cinema. Joshua learns more about natural steppers and as the ship flies on, Lobsang and Joshua listen to a little of Helen Green's story. Very weird summarizing this one because it's like short stories and vignettes interspersed which I'll talk about a bit later but yeah, it's fun. Lots of back and forward, yeah. Nice pacing. Very well paced. Just a really fun read just in case we haven't said this enough and won't

say it enough during the episode. Really like this book. Yeah, it's good. I read a review or two saying it read more like Baxter than Pratchett. I'm not sure I quite agree with that. It's possibly just because I'm so trained to see Pratchett now. It is definitely, I'd say almost, it read half half, which is very odd. It's like, do you, you know, our friend Marco's dad had an almost exactly half half Italian Cockney accent. Yes. Yeah, very much that. It's that.

I've not read any Stephen Baxter, so I don't know if I can really compare. Like I could spot like Pratchettie bits and I'll do a talk about a few of those later. Those are my recommendations for next month. Well, yeah, Stephen Baxter is obviously on theettie bits and I'll do a talk about a few of those. That's my recommendation for next month. Well, yeah. Stephen Baxter is obviously on the list now and I'll take your specific recommendation, but yeah, might try some new stuff. I wasn't going to do a helicopter and loincloth watch as we're not on the disc, but then there was an actual helicopter. So there was, yeah. Did you spot a?

I didn't spot a loincloth as such, but I felt there were some employees talking about cave people and such. Yeah, okay. Yeah, implied loincloth is fine. There was definitely some talk about hand cut leather. Yeah, that's a good thing. I can only assume somebody's got around to reinventing the loincloth, so to speak. Not so speak literally. I meant literally. So to speak makes it... I don't know what I'm suggesting there. That one. It's't know what I'm suggesting there. Double entendre

with no double. He looks like the sort to reinvent the loincloth if you know what I mean. Exactly. But yeah, actual helicopter and an airship. So delight all around. Marvellous. Yeah. Oh, airships. More of that please. In real life. I love an airship. Also, thought I'd throw in that there is genuinely the line a plethora of pachyderms, which on the irrelevant elephant front, these seem like quite relevant elephants. They are quite relevant elephants. You're right. I did look up that kind of elephant,

not elephant, pachyderm. I didn't really find an easily digestible fun fact for everybody, but they do look ridiculous and I recommend just Googling them. What are they called? Gullifont? Something like Gullifont? Yeah. Yeah, whatever. I'll put it in the notes. The various forms of pachyderm we see as they travel through these different worlds is one of my favorite descriptive things to read. I almost don't want to look them up because I'm enjoying visualizing them so much.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I'll tell you what, right at the end of next episode, we'll pick our favorite. Elephant. Elephant. Slash Puckadil. Could have been, yeah. Quotes then. More elephant in airships. Yeah. Don't put an elephant on an airship. Don't put an elephant on their ship. And I've always said that. Yeah, so quote, was Lobsang human? Or an AI, aping humanity? A smiley, he thought, one curve and two dots and you see a human face. What's the minimum you needed to see a human being? What has to be said? What has to be laughed? A just really interesting thing to think about. There's that whole what's it called when you see faces and things that aren't faces? There is a word for it. Can't tell you what it is. You know what that was in no such thing as fish today. Also remember, pareidolia. Remember when we used to

call those smileys instead of emoticons? Yeah, that dates it in a really fun way. And then what dates it in a less fun way is in the last few years, just like what aping humanity looks like. Yeah, don't need to go into detail about that. But I've enjoyed reading AI as we used to imagine AI. Yes. And not whatever nonsense is now labeled AI. Yep. I feel like if you need proof that Lobsang has a soul, it's that he does not read like an LLM in any way, shape or form. Do you have a favorite quote? Yes.

This is from a bit later on and it's as they're traveling through Datum to start the pioneering trek, the Green family. Once a woman dressed like Pocahontas blissfully clutching a white wedding dress in a cellophane cover. And there was a whole short story just in her smile. Just like that. There's a kind of all of humanity is mixing and humanity is broadening and changing quite a lot. Now we can do all this stuff. So sometimes you'll see an entire story and just one person that you don't actually get to find out. And that's a lovely mystery. That's a lovely mystery. Of course, which poker hunters are we talking about? Yes. I mean, it could also be kind of weird and racist, but I assume we mean more like

Disney. Yeah, like the Disney one, probably that. Yeah. I thought I'd get there before the emails. Cool characters though. But it is lovely to think about is like a like an extreme version of an airport or a trained platform or yeah. Seeing stories in people. Let's talk characters. Let's talk people. Should we start with Joshua? Let's talk people. That's the most business you've ever sounded. Let's start with Joshua.

He does seem to be the main man. He's very much our main character. I will fight the urge. I keep wanting to call him Josh because I was shortening his name in all of my notes and he doesn't seem like he is a Josh. He's a Joshua. I think he'd be quite upset if someone did call him Josh. Yeah. I wouldn't call him Josh. I'm too respectful for that sort of thing. So yeah, the sort of idea of meeting him first, completely alone in a being born and then being completely alone in the universe for a second. And then going immediately to present day Joshua who doesn't like the fluffy feeling of being inside a building. Compared to Joshua, Daniel Boone was pathologically

gregarious. I've always loved that story about if you've, you know, been seeing a bit of smoke coming up from Yeah, the distant horizon and going, oh, fucking hell, it's crowded now, isn't it? But I like the descriptions of him as younger and being this really methodical character. Yeah. Who does things meticulously and paints things before resembling and puts them in the right order. Always commenced things because it sounded more deliberate than starting, I thought was a great line.

He'd not only varnished his stepper box, he'd waited for the varnish to dry. Josh is not like you and I, Joanna. Yeah, we are not these people. We are not. I loved how it's very a Pratchett version of good goodness that he does not particularly like these other people. He does not particularly enjoy helping them, but he can't not, obviously, he can't not. Yeah.

They need help. I'm going to go and ask for help. You help them. Yeah. And the scene in the forest where he's figuring out how to get all the kids to the right place. But then he's kind of annoyed because he's asked the girl to sing and she's gone for a prayer instead. And the particular frustration at her asking what to do once she's finished the prayer is like, well, yeah, start again. Then you remember like, it's just another kid. I think it's actually genuinely like a very well written child character as well, which is like

something that sometimes authors struggle with if they're doing like flashbacks to a child version of an adult character. The child version ends up being like just a shorter version of the adult character. Whereas this like younger Josh is childish, even when he's a teenager and he's going out and building his stockades in the higher earths, he's kind of irked. And it's not just about his relationship to the silence and the pressure of people. There is also a little bit of, yeah, but this is kind of meant to be mine. Yeah. And has this like fear of being a problem. Yeah.

I've labeled a problem. He's very much an unwilling hero. Yeah. Which is our favorite sort of hero. We don't want a willing hero. Boring, just running in happily brandishing a sword or what have you. No, I want the hero to be sulking about this and trying to avoid this whenever possible. Yes. And then when he grows up, he's again, you know, he helps people out, he makes a living in the best way he can. And then they go in, yet again, can't fucking sort stuff out for themselves. And now I'm in trouble. Now I'm in trouble. Yeah, the whole idea of helping the of assholes. Sorry baboons.

What I thought was a really great character detail is Lobsang reassuring him, you know, I know it wasn't your fault, and we're going to exonerate you, regardless of you coming on this journey or not, idiot's leverage, but we're going to do it anyway, because that's the right thing to do. The detail that he made an attempt to cover the corpses with stones and left grave markers. On the covering corpses and that whole backstory though as well, it's a really nice way to introduce quite early into the reader. This is the bigger dangers of stepping. There are things out there that can hurt you and not just in this kind of abstract wild animal, doesn't know any better, sees

you think she'll prey. Yeah, falls in a swamp, whatever. Nasty, hunty animal type thing is a different kind of danger. It's very interesting. Something close enough to human to be unsettling. Yes. And then Maria Valiente, which is Joshua's mother. Obviously, very depressing story that goes into, there's definitely a much darker backstory to the home than the reader is fully aware of because it ends up being revealed quite late in this section and then not heavily revisited. It's kind of that is there and now the world has changed and moved on.

Yeah. Largely because of this incident, some kind of coup with the more, I'm not going to say reasonable, the better nuns. Big fan of all the nuns. Big fan of all the nuns. This is my favorite sort of nun. If you're going to have a nun, I like this sort of nun. Yeah. My other favorite- On the run from the FBI. Exactly. My other favorite sort of nun is Julie Andrews, obviously. Yes. Who I think, you know, if given the right set of circumstances, could have been one of these nuns. Yeah, could end up being on the run from the FBI.

I don't think that she was the problem in that convent, to be honest. I think they were the problem by not being like this set of nuns. That is a good point. All she needed was a different convent. But yeah, the context of just Joshua briefly being left in an empty, for a given value of empty universe, which poured in and spoke to him with an infinity of voices beyond it all of our silence and the capitalized silence running through the book is very funny. Oh, foreshadowing. Yes.

Foreshadowing. Ominous. Lots of lovely foreshadowing in this. Any other Joshua thoughts or should we move on to Lobsang? Let's move on to Lobsang for now. Yay, Lobsang. Love Lobsang. We love Lobsang.

He's from the beginning a little infuriating in a good way. He's a little shit is what I put in my notes. He's a little shit, yes. The excellent speaking through a drinks machine and then the dumb joke of dropping a can of Dr. Pepper while saying what's the worst that can happen made me laugh more than it should have done. Now is that Pratchett? I don't know.

I don't know how much, how many Dr. Pepper adverts like Pratchett. I read that and immediately heard the little like jingle in my brain, but I don't know how much Telly Pratchett was watching. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. He had a lot to do. Yeah, God. Unless he found the secret, of course, to just face-pancing on the keyboard and saying, ah, to Rice's books. Which does free up a lot of time for watching TV. It does. Yeah. I think he got an assistant. Oh, yeah, that's it. Yeah, yeah. To do that for him. Rob Wilkins, I believe types by

artistically smashing. Sounds like I'm insulting somebody now. And I'm really just riffing in random direction. So Lobsang who has found a nice floppy bit of brain gel. Yes. Was it was he said a few teraflops was it? Yes. Always mean to look up the teraflops are real thing. It is it is wonderful. Good. Excellent. I'm glad that teraflops are real. I wouldn't want to live in a world where they're not.

No, it does sound very much like something Pratchett just made up on the spot. So that's really quite a surprising delight. much like something Pratchett just made up on the spot. So that's really quite a surprising delight. Yes. I feel like the whole idea of Tibetan motorcycle repairman reincarnated as computer program that feels Pratchett-y specifically. It does feel Pratchett-y. I'm going to say it largely because I'm pretty sure I can narrow down to where the seed of that idea came from in a way that you can with a lot of ratchet things. Have you ever heard of Lobsang Ramper? No. I've been wanting to talk about him for coming on five years now, so this is good. Waiting

for the long earth to come up. I can't believe that Lobsang, this Lobsang, probably not the other Lobsang, but maybe there's a Stark in there somewhere, but was not in some way inspired by a man who called himself Lobsang Ramper. So in 1956, Ramper wrote a book called The Third Eye. It's a spiritual autobiography slash travelogue. It was an incredible bestseller at the time. This was largely in England, probably worldwide as well, I'm not sure.

But Ramper in the book talked about his Tibetan childhood, his time in a monastery, other classic Tibetan activities like adventures with yetis and lots more besides. Yeah, unfortunately, as it turned out, he wasn't actually from Tibet. He was a plumber from Devon. He was born Cyril Hoskin and the accent, which he never really dropped, was part of what gave him away to the E-guide investigator. An actual private investigator got on the case in the end and found his real identity. When challenged on it, he admitted that this body of his wasn't the one that had experienced all those Tibetan wonders, but that didn't. And he stressed this, meaning these stories were untrue. Because Cyril Hoskin, you see, had been bird watching,

he'd been trying to spot an owl, in fact, one fateful afternoon, and he was up a tree, as wonders get up a tree when they're looking for owls. And he fell out of the tree and he badly hurt his back and he kind of half strangled himself with his binoculars. And lying there in the kind of dazed aftermath, he found himself wandering the astral plane again, as one does, as you do. Yeah, as you do. And he encountered an elderly llama, the monk, not the he encountered an elderly llama, the monk, not the... Yeah. Yeah. And he swapped bodies with him.

Oh, right. That's just a simple stat. As one of the Guardian articles, one of the articles, I think it was in the garden. Yeah, I read, pointed out, nobody did actually find out whether there was an elderly llama into that, who was suddenly talking about his childhood in Devon. So we'll never know, I suppose. But despite this public disgrace, Rampa didn't stop writing. He published 20 books in all, including a travel memoir through space, which was dictated to him telepathically by Mrs. Fifi Greywhiskers, who was his cat.

So the cat went to space? I don't know. I haven't read it. I mean, I don't know if it was released as fiction or nonfiction. The point is this guy's an icon. I'm obsessed. Yeah, absolutely. So there we go. There's the next recommendation. Incredible. recommendation. I haven't read any of these. I've been vaguely aware of him for quite a while. And the more I learn about him through various sources, I'm like, this has got to be, right? There's got to be the spark of the idea. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Lobsang himself is a very different character. Yes.

The plumber from Devon instead of a motorcycle or a Sermon from Tibet. Fantastic. Well, arguably it's not a plumber from Devon rather than a motorcycle or a plumber from Tibet. It's a plumber from Devon instead of a computer program. You're quite right. Yes, yes. Yeah. Tibetan is the commonality here. Yeah. And one he goes into a computer program and then the other he goes into a plumber from Devon. Yes, that's right. Yes, good. Well, that's the important bit. Yeah. That's the important bit. I want to know more about Mrs. Fifi Greywhiskers to be honest, but I think for that I might have to start reading some Lobsang originals. I'm

fascinated by Miss Fifi Greywhiskers. I want to know if she really went to space. I believe she did. I believe she did. I wonder if this robot cat. Shimi. Shimi. Tifi. Could be. I like the design of Shimi as a like Buddhist pest control system. Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, capturing them. It's a beautiful thing. Shimi I've just looked up is Tibetan for cat. Oh, excellent.

There we go. So, in this, Lobsang has something in common with Holly go lightly from breakfast at Tiffany's and that he named his cat, Cat. The whole, the mouse transportation system reminds me of Jack's aunt and uncle. And Jack's uncle is a very practical man. They both lived in the countryside for a long time. They've got a reasonable amount of land. They're practical, outdoorsy people that are familiar with the realities of nature.

They had a rat problem. I'm pretty sure Jack's uncle would have just done the normal thing and put traps down or borrowed somebody's dog or something. But because he didn't want to upset Jack's auntie, he humanely trapped one of the rats to start with. Yes. He's telling this story around the table with just a look of utter exasperation on his face. Like, yes, I trapped one of the rats and I put it in a box and close. Yes, I trapped one of the rats and I put it in a box and put it in my car and I drove five miles down the road and released it in the woodland. I still got rats. Yeah, no, of course. Yeah. Genie sitting there like,

Beautiful. Bees. There's a sign of an interesting man. Gave me a good chunk of beeswax to use while embroidering this the other week. It's been very useful. Sorry, what were we talking about? Lobsang in the book The Long Earth. I like the little sinister moments as well that aren't quite sinister, but just should someone who is theoretically human with a soul also have X amount of power. You have the whole thing of the traffic lights all being green just as Joshua was going to the airport, which is not harmful to anyone, but is a scary amount of power for a being to have.

Yeah. It's like a fun little double moment there where it's just this nice, like, oh, look how easy life can be. It's nice reading those little sequences in books where it's just this nice like, Oh, look how easy life can be. And it's nice reading those little sequences and books where everything's going smoothly for a minute. Yeah, like that. And then the airplane and this that and then but yeah, as you say, in the back of your mind, you're like, but Sarah- Hang on. And yeah, the airplane itself where the rock star is fretting that the jets unavailable but will be distracted by learning her latest album is two places higher in the charts. The reach of Lobsang is great. And again, it's just being able to do that, co-opter plane and put an album up two spaces in the

charts in the process. I believe that's where Taylor Swift really became the kind of... Yeah, I know. I assumed Taylor Swift... And for Stella, she is today. Yeah. I know she's been around for longer. And then Josh was speculating of how much of this really is lobsang, how much of lobsang resides in that server room at MIT. And Agnes' argument that if someone works that hard to not be turned off, that's probably evidence they do have a soul. That's true. Which, you know, when you think of all of the worst case scenarios with AI

does suggest that however we die, at least it's going to be at the hands of something with a soul. That's not that reassuring. Did you want to talk about Monika? No, I'm not very good at reassuring this year. I'm sorry. Yeah, no, that's because the world's on fire. You want to talk about Monica Janssen? Are we going Janssen or Janssen? Janssen. Janssen. Yeah. Okay.

Yes, I do want to talk about Monica Janssen. I like her. Who very much wanted to be Scully, but within a paragraph of saying that was being referred to was spooky. Do you find me spooky? How did you get there this fast? No earthly means. Yes. It's in this context. You know me, I like an aggressively competent character. Oh, yes. Who turns up and is like, not good at things in an annoying way, but it's just like, someone has to be good at this, so I will be the person who is good at this and capable of handling this.

She's immediately introduced as very tenacious and not very fearful. She's re-investigating this Lindsay house fire that she doesn't really need to be investigating anymore. She discovers how to step and does it right away and processes it very quickly. She's not clawing the maternal or anything, but she immediately spots what Joshua is afraid of and how to... Look after him. ...sweep that so that A, he's reassured and B, they can work together.

Yes. Which is nice that that's written in a completely non-maternal sort of relationship. Yeah, definitely. Because lazy female writing, ah, I must adopt this child if it's a female character. Yeah. Ideally, this isn't really related to her character as such, but I did really like the exchange. You can't take your piece over, sir, except for all the rust on the shaft. He eyed her. That isn't some kind of lewd remark, is it, Janssen? Couldn't dream of it, sir. Yes. That made me chuckle. She's the first character we kind of see stepping other than the people who are naturals at it. So the fact that she steps and she's nauseous is a nice way

to sort of demonstrate that the nauseous is a nice way to sort of demonstrate that the nausea is a normal thing for a lot of people. It's not just like a side effect of those being children and scared and confused. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Which just is a nice writing thing. And yes, the fact that she, as Clinchy says, keeps functioning right through all the Twilight Zone shit. Clinchy says keeps functioning right through all the Twilight Zone shit. Yeah, yeah, it's it. There's definitely like room for somebody with that type of brain that can just go, okay, yeah, carrying on then. Guess this is the world now. And here is what I do within the world. It's pretty much only pressure at this point that

can make us consistently root for cops as characters? Yeah, unfortunately so. As in, unfortunately, we must root for a cop. Yes. But Pridget writes good cop. He does. There is good cop. Every character, I think, gets their own moment of... And I saw a couple of reviews here, which I think are a little unfair, but kind of the very obvious expositionary moments. There were some people saying, like, oh, it's too obvious. Show, don't tell this, that and the other. Something like this, I don't know how you show, not tell. Sarah- I think the book actually does quite a good job of it. It tells a lot, but it uses, like I said, these small characters to show instead of telling. I think when it does

tell, it's a case of like, here you go, this is how it works. You don't have to think about it and you can get on with enjoying the story. Which I think feels like more of a speculative fiction, sci-fi thing of just like, here is information relevant to you. You don't need to worry about it. It's not a mystery. Yeah, exactly. When Monica Like when Monica is explaining to her boss, like all the stars are the same, the date is the same time of day, etc. Or when, oh, what is it? Joshua and Lobsang are chatting and Joshua does the kind of infamous, why are you telling me all this, Lime? telling me all this slime. I don't care. Fuck it. You know me. I love an exposition. I love a half page footnote. If you give me a half page footnote, I'll read it. Yeah. The only footnote too long for me is the Silmarillion. And I've admitted that and I'm not proud of it. It's just a really long footnote. The entire book. Wouldn't it be an appendix rather than a footnote?

No, it's a footnote. Okay, I'm with you. Speaking of someone else who has also not read The Cimmerillian and not really willing to. The thing is, is that I do live with a farmer who was a massive like law nerd when it comes to Lord of the Rings. So if I have questions that might be answered by The Cimmerillian, they can also be answered by the bearded man sitting next to me on the sofa and then I don't have to read a whole book. I met someone recently and I can't remember who it is now, which is probably for their

benefit, who said that they enjoyed the Cimmerillian much more than they did the Hobbit, which I thought was very odd. Were they a serial killer? Maybe. Again, I've forgotten who they are, so we'll never know. Unless them becoming a serial killer drops my memory., I've forgotten who they are. So we'll never know. Unless them becoming a serial killer drops my memory. Yeah, well, that's cool. Who else have we got then? Sister Agnes, already mentioned. Love her. She's great. Especially for being a big Meatloaf fan. Yep.

Big Meatloaf fan. We love a caregiver who will beat somebody up with an iron bar when necessary. Yes. I like the way Susan is very different, but I think we'd work together. Yeah, she's got the Susan-y vibes to her in the sort of pragmatic Catholicism is important, but so is having this iron bar and hitting someone over the head with it when necessary. And the way she calls Monica Janssen a good Steinman fan, the way most nuns would have said, good Catholic, I thought was also a nice detail. Emma P Yeah. And it's also nice that Joshua kind of constantly refers back to what would Sister

Agnes say, do feel about this situation. She's like a bit of a compass for him. Emma P Yeah. There's a touch of the Mrs. Cake in her advice. Yes, you can't deny that. Delightful character. You feel the wrong end of my broom and no mistake. And then I just wanted to mention the trolls quickly. Fucking trolls. I love them. Love them. Ah. Because it's fun as a like introduction to this concept, because yes, if humans have learned to step, there

would be other species that step. Yeah, yeah, of course. And they're introduced in these little fits and starts. Obviously, you have them in chapter one with Percy. And I love this idea of Percy just assuming they must be Russians. Fantastic. For decades too. Yeah, fine. There's that whole thing about them trying a monkey and wherever it was. A heartless little monkey. Yeah, fine. That whole thing about them trying a monkey and wherever it was. And yeah, and then after Percy, the next time we see the trolls is the younger members of the expedition that the Green family are on that we're kind of following. We realized

that these kids are noticing them, but not the adults. Yeah, were they trolls though? I thought it was implied. They said we call them greys even though they're orange. I think the description sounds similar. They're not orange, the trolls. The trolls are huge and black. Oh, yeah. I think these are a different species. Ah, okay. In that case.

I think we're going to try and map them onto Icelandic folklore, which I believe we should. These are more akin to the elves or something like that. I think because they were peaceful or at least not really engaging, I think I assumed they must have been trolls. But yes, you are right. They are probably not trolls. I liked that Lobsang decides that the name trolls is very pertinent because the myth of trolls must come from spotting these steppers as

they pass through our world and this, that and the other. I like the idea of this stepping has been going on much longer than humanity has embraced it. Yeah, yeah, definitely. But humanity is the first to kind of function with it in this way. This nice moment of Joshua meeting them and they sing him an old music hall song and him realizing how much bigger and weirder and complicated everything is. Yeah. Well, it's kind of reminiscent of, oh gosh, I can't remember the details, but the

various places in the world where a Western explorer rocks up and is greeted with a fragment of his own language or the sound the other from previous explorers who they'd never heard of. Sarah- Yeah, yeah, exactly. And Lobsang kind of admitting that creatures like trolls were part of his motivation all along to find the other creatures that are out there, because there's no way all of these Earths could exist without another creature developing the ability to step at some point. Yeah, absolutely. And if they manage it, earlier point in their evolutionary journey, then

their life and their habits revolve around it in a way that it doesn't for humanity. We're stumbling around vomiting every time we step. But you can see humanity already figuring out the basics of making stepping and traveling the long earth part of human nature. Yeah. Until it becomes completely the norm. And then a couple of location bits I just wanted to talk about. I mean, not the long earth as a whole because we'll be here all day. It's quite big. There's a lot of it. Name of the Thing in

the Thing definitely happens a fair bit in this book. It also had a Name of the Thing in the Thing moment when someone refers to the high megas. I remember that was the early story name from Tony Brunett. Name of the original thing in the thing. Madison being this kind of center for stepping, it was kind of where stepping started and where Willis Lindsay lives and people still traveled to Madison and then stepped from there. started and where Willis Lindsay lives and people still travel to Madison and then step from there. Because it's this very old still bit of land. Yeah, I know. I love the geological considerations when you're thinking about stepping. That's a really fun part of it.

I love the idea of just land being like old, old bones of the land. Yeah. You want to be like stepping around the Atalachian mountains, not around the Himalayas. If this became a thing for us, I would go over to mainland Europe before starting to step. I wouldn't try and step from England because this is a very small island. I imagine there's probably a fair few Earths where there isn't. Oh, you'd go as far inland as you could first, for sure. Yeah. Definitely. Oh, but the reason Madison, Wisconsin was used is this little afterword in the book. We chose to use Madison, Wisconsin as a location in this novel, partly because as we were developing the book, it occurred to us that in July 2011, the

second North American Discworld Convention was to be held there. And we can get quite a lot of research done on the cheap. Now that's just efficiency. And that convention became a kind of mass workshop on the long earth. And I like the idea of like, oh, we're going to be there anyway. We want to set it in the States. Yeah, definitely. I love that. That delighted me. We should go there as a pilgrimage one day. I've said, as I said that, remembered that we can't go to the US for quite a long time.

If the US gets a day for us to travel in again, then yes, we should go on pilgrimage to Wisconsin. I've heard they have good... The best place to pilgrimage. Of all the pilgrimages, and I've been on one. Anyway, the airship is the other location I want to mention, just because I have never wanted to travel in something so badly in my life. I know the Mark Twain, excellent name of course. With the little story of Mark Twain and the riverboat captain. I read an annotation of this book mentioning that some of the terms used are kind of based on another sci-fi book called the Riverworld. And without trying to go into detail about it,

people do, there is something called stepping there. And also there are lots of airships. And I think one of them is actually called Mark Twain. Oh, nice. It's like an intentional reference. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, a gondola like an art deco fantasy. Several decks deep, all polished wood and portholes and plate glass. I wantondola like an art deco fantasy. Several decks deep or polished wooden portholes and plate glass. I want to go on the airship so badly. I want to go on the airship. Yeah. Yeah. I want to hang out on the airship. I feel like I would do really well on a journey like this. Why?

Because I would really enjoy being on the airship and then also having a kitchen full of food, but also kind of being able to go do a bit of hunter gatherer to get random food. full of food, but also kind of being able to go do a bit of hunt together to get random food. Yeah, yeah. I think I'd like it. I think I would. Yeah, it's not claustrophobic, like some traveling can be because you're in the sky. Yeah, like not in an airplane way. Airplane way. Exactly. You can hang out the window probably. I don't think you can pressurize Kevin. You know, it's fine. It's massive. There are ballrooms. There are ballrooms. There's a cinema. There's a cinema. There's an observation deck. I'll be hanging on the observation deck. I'm always hanging on the observation deck. Catch me

not on the observation deck. That's what I say. Yeah. That's what they say about that Francine. She's on the observation deck. Where else would she be? I'm not making any sense today. I'm so sorry. I love you. Should we take a break? Mm hmm. Little bits we liked. We liked some bits, that's for sure. I definitely like quite a lot of bits.

You have a little collection, a little collection on your first bullet point. Yes, Pratchety moments. I know it's a bit, a guy who has only read one book to read a book by Terry Pratchett and go, hey, this feels like Discworld. That's our whole thing though, Joe. We can't stop being self-conscious about that now, God. No, no, it's fascinating. But yes, I had fun pointing out little bits that sort of remind me that we're reading a Pratchett book. Such as, I think we already mentioned that books were quite handy if you didn't want to read them again, there was always a use for reasonably

thin soft paper. Yes, yes. I mentioned that only in the context of your notebook, of course. Yes, and here it's very useful in the context of almanacs and such in Discworld. The idea of the scientists trying to work out kind of how the long Earths exist and getting a bit quantum with it. Perhaps there are times when a volcano stirs, a comic kisses, a true love is betrayed. We can get a separate experiential reality, a braid of quantum threads. that, isn't it? It's very whimsical quantum and it felt very reminded me of Granny and Ridcully arguing about the trousers of time. Yes. Although the kiss of a comet sounds a bit like Magrat before she gets slapped around

the face by Granny Weatherwax's view of the whole thing. Yes, that's very true. A braid of quantum threads. A braid of quantum threads. That's Ridcully before Granny again shuts him up. Yeah. Monica's reaction to stepping. She opined, oh, this response seemed inadequate in itself. After some consideration, she added my and she concluded, although in the process, she was denying a lifelong belief system of agnosticism shading to outright atheism. God. Yes. Very nice. Yeah. Percy Blackney, specifically remembering boots. Look after your boots and your boots would look after you. And especially as I have monstrous regimen on the brain because of who I am as a person. That felt like something that once been shouted at Percy Blackney by

Blackney by a sergeant such as Jackram. Oh, it definitely was. Yeah. Oh, there we go. You did manage to bring a sergeant into it. There we go. I got a sergeant into the episode. Joanna was worried earlier listeners because I clicked into the Google Doc containing her notes and she's been traumatized by the time I watched her try and spell sergeant in real time. Yeah, it was unpleasant. Now I'm always really scared I'm going to have to spell something

sergeant. Oh, and just more on the speculating over Lobsang's humanity. Maybe the only significant difference between a really smart simulation and a human being was the noise they made when you punched them. The short phrase, steely-eyed folks, some of them, with serious shorts and determined knees. Oh, yeah, I did have that one highlighted. Of Woodhouse as much as it did Pratchett, to be honest. A determined knee is definitely something that a Bertie Worcester friend might have, but it's definitely also a Pratchettian thing.

A Pratchettian thing. Yes, that one made me chuckle. There were lots more I could have done, but I thought you maybe didn't want a three hour episode to edit. No, no, no. What about you? What little bits did you like? Well, I rather liked, and we've already talked about a little fairy tale parallel there, but the fact that you can't take iron from one place to another. Yes.

Because as we all know, that is impossible, trying to go from one dimension to the next with iron. Not because of quantum, but because of fairies. They don't like it. Something like that, right? Is that the reason you can't take it? Maybe it is quantum. Maybe it is quantum. But it's another nice in this round world where the myths about fairies are pouring iron might have come from, which is the iron transfer with stepping. Yes, of course. Yeah. But yeah, and then of course, Thomas the Rhimer mentioned. Yes.

And as we talk about fairyland. And yes, just I like the fact that we managed to get the fairyland in. Yeah, I also like the iron not coming across as like a position, it adds a difficulty. It makes the whole expansion into the long earths and the pioneering and stuff. Yeah, definitely. It gives it more stakes and it means that the worlds have to work differently out there to how they work and you can't just spread the internet across the infinite chain of long earths and such. Yeah, it's definitely an obstacle put in there by somebody who enjoys a video game. Yeah. As made me think of it as well a bit later when one of the characters says something like

it feels like cheating if you're doing that. Yeah. Like, yeah, this is somebody who wants to play survival games. Very much so. I recognize that instinct. But yeah, no, I just, it's nice because you like the idea of going back Bronze-Aid a bit, but then also you kind of see them rooted almost immediately because they're so used to having iron and that. It's a great extra layer. Yeah, taking this one element and then suddenly discovering how common that element is as a part of everything. And even again, we talk about the sort of little expedition or bits but having a brief conversation about why iron in blood is not affected.

Yes. Yeah. Before you all write in. You can almost see them going like, is our version of before we get emails? It has at least been thought about. Yes, absolutely. So how do we extract iron from it? No, actually, no, this goes horrible immediately. Yeah, I got dark real quick. What else did you like? I also liked the four horsemen Pratchett loves a four horsemen. He does love a four horseman.

Here we go. In Joshua's opinion, if you wanted to extend the biblical metaphor, then this I also liked the four horsemen. Pratchett loves a four horseman. He does love a four horseman. Here we go. In Joshua's opinion, if you wanted to extend the biblical metaphor, then this apocalypse had four horsemen of its own, their names being greed, failing to follow the rules, confusion and miscellaneous abrasions. I think I forgot to mention when we were talking about Joshua, you know, his whole doing things a certain way, not just varnishing the box, but letting the varnish dry. His idea of there being rules that must be followed. Yes, you have to follow the rules. Otherwise, it'll all go wrong. Yes, he'd have made a great engineer. Very much so. But yes, I like that whole idea of four horsemen and those being the most important things in this new age. If anybody else, as I think we talked about in good omens, but I'll offer it up to the crowd again. If you would like to come up with your own four horsemen of a similarly

unimportant nature, although I'm sure Joshua Valiante would not agree with me that they were unfortunate. Sarah- Answers on an iron free postcard. Emma- Yes. Please stop sending in those ferris postcards. You must be paying so much for the postage. It just seems unnecessary. I realize you're trying to ward off the fae fight. I think the post office has it covered. Sarah- No, I would take the post office over the faith oak in a fight any day. Mm hmm. I like the little I like that we've already got a postman character, by the way, might talk about him in a bit.

Yes, the postman going like 100,000 worlds and back again. Neither rain nor snow nor glom of knit nor 100,000 parallel, nor whatever they are, nor whatever that is, nor several hundred miles of ice apparently. Anyway, here's your letter, non-ferrous. Lastly, I just wanted to mention tracklements. This is when Joshua has been gifted something like a salmon by some trolls. What was that lovely exchange by the way? Yes, and this giving them the knife and how attached he was to it. Lobsang explained, no, it's really, really important.

You have got to do this. Yeah, this is a diploma. I know you're not big on company, but this is diplomacy and they did just give you what is a lovely salmon. It sounded like a lovely salmon and what he cooked with it sounded lovely as well. Have you looked into that book, by the way? Which one? Food in England, which was mentioned, I think, during this passage.

Oh, no, I haven't. But I am going to add that. I also... It looks really interesting. This tracklements conversation. I'm sorry. Yeah, tracklements. Lobsang says, we have all the relevant condiments. We also have tracklements. And I bet you've never heard of them before. Tracklments are those things which complement the main ingredient of meal and traditionally, at least may be found in the vicinity of the said ingredient. For example, horseradish root in good beef country.

This just seems like something that Pratchett really feels like everyone should know, and is a bit annoyed that nobody does. And so he's going to keep explaining it in different universes until somebody fucking gets it. Niamh. And I feel like if you actually drill down into etymology and things and the difference between condiments and tracklements, you could go quite far. And I left doing my notes a bit late, so I didn't start. Emma. It's so hard to drill down into condiments as well, just by their very nature. Niamh. Which is why as a podcast, we do have our own condiment correspondent, Yozien. So Yozien,

if you're listening, I expect your thoughts on tracklements forthwith. Forthwith. If you have time, you don't actually have to email us about tracklements. It's fine. I also advise on drilling down into condiments. Does one use a probe in the same way that you kind of get the structural integrity of a tree or are we looking more the kind of probe you put into ice to get out the climate information. I'd go like the probe you put into ice, you need something that's not going to send things splashing everywhere because if you're not careful about how you drill down into condiments, you do end up with mustard all

over the shop. Yes. But of course the question... In a pickle and in a more real sense covered in a pickle. Very much so. The reason I wanted to bring this up is I love the word tracklements. It's lovely. It's lovely to say. Tracklement trolley. It goes with, you know how I really love, I've definitely brought this up a few times most recently in Dodger, the phrase they set to when it comes to eating some kind of meal. And I love when a meal is referred to as a repast. It's in that category of ways I love describing food. So expect at some points and follow up where I talk more about the difference between a condiment and a tracklement

because... It's a blighter moment in the same way actually I remember there was a blighter moment with Helen Green later on where she said she paled up with somebody. Oh yeah. And that pleased me in the same kind of way. Yes. If they get out of tin of peaches anytime soon, then I'm going to be expecting some dodgy looking smugglers to pop up in that nearby cove.

But fingers crossed we'll end up with lashings of ginger beer. Lashings of it. Which is not very difficult to DIY. So hopefully ginger beer becomes commonplace across the long earths. That's not something you need industrial processing for. Anyway, should we talk about the bigger stuff? Or otherwise I'm just going to talk about... Bigger than trackments. There is nothing right? Yes. infinite space. Okay.

Not as important as horse radish. Trackments are I suppose contained within the longer space. And so while they do take up quite a lot of space in your heart and mine, it can be seen as a part of the whole alright. Should we go big picture? Let's go. Let's go big picture. The biggest picture you can get. Basically, oh, isn't this fucking great concept? I love this so much. Isn't it so pleasing in a way that's very hard to vocalize, but we're gonna have to try because it's a podcast, not kind of a vise cast. Oh, it's getting late at night. That's good.

I'm waking up. You've just managed to mute yourself. Good. Yep, I can hear you now. Anna Chisholm Okay, excellent. Heather Hyslop Did you knock your microphone while gesturing emphatically about how much you love the concept? Anna Chisholm I did. Yes. Yeah. As I've done so before, and I'll do it again, god damn it. Not tonight, though, hopefully. Heather Hyslop It's a great idea. Anna Chisholm

It is a great idea. I love it from the first kind of metaphor that he used, the pack of cards. Heather Hyslop Yes. Anna Chisholm Isn't that wonderful? The idea of actually drilling down. So we've already got that on the brain here. But yes, one can drill down into this pack of cards. Here it is. The long earth is a pack of three dimensional sheets stacked up in a higher dimensional space, each card and an earth entire unto itself. And most significantly to most people, the long earth is open. Almost anyone can travel up and down the pack, drilling, as it were, through the cards themselves, people expanding into all that room. Of course they are. There's a primal instinct. We

claim the apes still fear the leopard in the dark. If we spread out, he cannot take all of us." Yes. Which is an interesting concept, because I feel like humans as a whole tend to clump together more than one might expect. Yes, but then given the option for space, will they go and seek it out even if they eventually look for the company of other humans? I don't know because later we look at the community that ends up staying in one world for the convenience of iron. And I feel like it's as much an excuse as anything else, because you can make bronze. Yeah. You're not living like a life that requires

this is the reboot community. They originally spread over like a couple of worlds either side and then come back into one place because it makes the iron thing easier. Yeah, I do think there's a certain amount that you would seek out other humans. Yeah. Somebody really, really likes my own company compared to almost any other company. That sounds, I said that in a very self absorbed way, but... You are quite an introverted person. Yeah, I'm reasonably introverted. Even so, after a certain amount of time, I do start

going insane. And I think most people do. I am a person who is, I'm very used to routine. So I'm used to being solo most of the time because I lived alone for like five years. And so I get slightly frustrated if I don't get alone time. But I'm also, you've seen this, I'm quite an extroverted person. What happens is things like when we went to last year's Discworld convention, and I had tons of social battery charged. Because I work from home by myself most days, which means then when I get to people, I am very enthusiastically around people and accidentally don't go to bed till the sun comes up.

Jessi Yes, which works quite well because I sleep with airplugs. Very glad of that. But yeah, so something like this, like I would go insane if I couldn't, I couldn't be like Joshua. So you don't think you get the long earth syndrome, as they call it, which I also love the concept. I love all the tiny baby concepts that are mixed up in this concept. And because there's so much in this concept to explore that you can't stop at just one person's story within it. We've talked about horizons extensively in the past. I can't really remember why at this point. Just sort of going mad staring at a horizon. Yeah, yeah. The idea of infinity beyond it. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, Long Air Syndrome has brought up a couple of times and I like that.

And then yeah, just all these, as I say, the little concepts within that almost well are foreshadowing in cases. So the jokers, which yes, love an extended metaphor. Just one world's thick everything is ash or desert. They're usually signposts. Oh, another thing I love the concept that we've got this multi dimensional trail going on. Because of course, we didn't even put little signs down saying ice ahead, watch out. course we didn't put little signs down saying eyes ahead, watch out. Yeah. It's a, you know, your people are helpful. Yeah, I thought it's such such a pleasing concept in a way. Again, I do find hard to vocalize because there's something specific it does scratch specific itch. Yeah. In the same way that the Narnia Chronicles do when you're young, like there's another world there. There's a fresh start. There's a fresh page

on the notepad. Yeah, there's this sort of clean sheet idea that we both really like. We both love a fresh page in a notepad or a sketchbook. Yeah. In the long earth, there's just more and more. It's such a long notepad. There's one description, I actually can't remember if it's in this half or the next one, but it's something to do with early days of stepping. And at first, when people are earth, there's just more The grownups are ruining it. Which I like the idea of with the American one, it's kind of like, yep, okay, we're doing certain amount of that. We're doing the ageist thing. We're going to make people pay taxes. And then you get far enough in the earth and you realize how pointless

that whole idea is and that it's not really enforceable in any way. And it works a lot better than the British idea when you get those little shots of the British response, which is, can we ban it? Can we ban it? Probably not, right? So, this never stopped us before. Oh, yeah, no, very, very realistic that the government would have absolutely no idea on how to keep up with the, in this case, a bit unfair to expect them to, but keep up with the technology. Yeah, the economic collapses are very interesting as well, how this is all affects the economy and things.

Yeah, the fistfuls of gold. Yeah. Was there an expedition, the Spanish expedition perhaps, that brought back so much gold, it genuinely did devalue it to quite an alarming extent? Or was that a fear that wasn't recognized? But yes, it's very much like that, but to a much, much larger degree. But yeah, just the idea that resource scarcity is no longer a thing. That's the big thing that we've all been worrying about forever. And now we don't have it. So it's got to be an existential crisis as well as an economical one. It's like when somebody who hasn't had money for a very long time suddenly has money, they don't just start living like they do. No, they're very existential, they're even more careful about things than they might

have been before. It's also really fascinating looking how humanity reacts to it. When this book takes place, and obviously it's not a spoiler to say this is a quintet, there are five books, early enough in the days of Stepping that you're still seeing the first generation processing this idea. Yeah. So everyone is so caught up with yes, we have infinite space and effectively infinite resources. And now it's about survival and establishment, setting up these pioneers going out and setting up these communities. So you know, there's still a lot to come. Like the the existential shoe, the other existential shoe hasn't dropped yet.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you can have the stepping equivalent of iPad babies, aren't you? Yeah. And it's quite nice talking about because this is like near future. So technology is well established enough. And you have these kids who are reacting to not having the technology for the first time and actually kind of enjoying it. It's interesting reading rereading this near future books that was written in 2010 to 2012. And we're now coming up to 2026. Yeah. It's always a weird thing with reading sci fi. Like obviously 1984 is the really obvious example,

but anything that's kind of near future ish. And then you realize like, we're about to be there. Why don't we have the hoverboards yet? Yeah. Yeah. And indeed, why? Where's my where's my potato based escape from reality? Yeah, I mean, I assuming you are like, you'd be going out there quite quickly. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think now I'm this age, I like to think I would be sensible enough to take Jack with me. My husband is much better at EG, almost anything to do with common sense or survival. Yeah. I would have to think about things like glasses. Yeah. I guess I would, you know, take the plunge and get the laser eye surgery. Yeah, I mean, that's one thing I'm very glad of is having had the laser eye surgery like

a situation like this or like an apocalyptic situation, I don't need to worry about glasses or contact lenses. So another thing I don't know if we mentioned or whether the technology gets to a point quite quickly in this series that we don't need it, but things like, obviously, there's the portion of the population that can't step, but is there then a portion of the population who can step but are stuck in or very close to datum for medical reasons, you can't be too far from an insulin supply, for instance, and people in wheelchairs, etc.

Sarah- Yeah, pioneering them becomes a lot more impossible. Sarah. Yeah, pioneering them becomes a lot more impossible. Suddenly, you get a really cool bronze wheelchair industry, of course. Yeah. Cohen, the barbarian springs to mind. Yeah. Even simple things like birth control, I imagine that would become a very risky thing. I wonder if then the medical industry is back on datum.

You end up with weird people hoarding so that they can travel. Yeah, definitely. I guess lambskin condoms become a thing again, quite quickly. But yeah, and then you see in this this new pioneer land, you know, there's some youngish teenagers being pregnant and getting engaged immediately. Yeah, which is kind of going back to earlier pioneer age stuff. So I'm assuming it's partly meant to be a reflection of that. But also like, yeah, you maybe will have a shorter life out here. So you start living earlier, or it becomes

your duty to the community to help the community grow. Which all feels very grace and icky to me, personally. But it does. Yeah. And I want to talk more about that. So can we talk about It does, yeah. And I wanted to talk more about that. So can we talk about vignettes and things? Oh, yeah, cool. I've been touching on this throughout the episode, but this is the opening book of A Quinta. It has to establish a huge concept, a concept that we love, as we've said. I think the way this book establishes that context is a really beautiful way to do it. This is what we were touching on when we were talking about the expedition. Threaded throughout the book, especially in this first half, there are all of these little stories and vignettes of small characters. We see these interconnected people spreading across the long earth. A lot of it,

not through the eyes of Lobsang and Joshua, although we get into the eyes of Lobsang and Joshua later on. I just think it's really well done. This is why I want to read more speculative fiction after reading this, because I love this idea of being told a story in this way and learning how things work in this way. So you get moments like chapter six through nine, you have like the Jim Rizzo story, you have Sally Lindsay stepping away and then you have these Joshua flashbacks and Monica stuff as well. And it all exists to show like how the long earth works, especially in the early days of opening up. Not from a physics perspective, from a really human perspective. I will say Baxter is very good at that. So I think he will enjoy the finger-turning the rest of his works,

definitely. Yeah. And we know Pratchett is amazing for very human perspectives and looking at things in that very gritty way. So yeah, the combination here is fantastic. It's like this lightning in a bottle to people who really gel with creating something like this. So you have stuff like Percy Blackney's story, we've already talked about a lot. And he's really great because he's the first person we see go to the Long Earth. He's our opening character. So it starts with defamiliarization. It's this weird Narnia type place that slowly opens up more and more to us as it opens up throughout the book.

Does he remind you a little bit of, oh, what's his name? The brother from Monstrous Regiment? Oh, Paul. Paul. Just a soldier with his paint box. And there's a lot of bird song mentioned. Very much so. And then when the Black Knee story is paid off later on with Joshua being told the story as best as Lobsang can reconstruct it. But when Lobsang is telling Joshua the story, we're seeing it from Percy's perspective.

And the small details of like, assuming he's been robbed, but why have they gone to all the effort of unraveling the metal bits of my paintbrushes? This is the weirdest robbery I've ever experienced. And then just kind of deciding it doesn't matter. Yeah, it's something you can't really expect. Isn't it interesting that when he you know, he dies when he comes back, he's hit by a tractor because he does the Austin Powers thing of slowly watching the steamroller come towards him. But it's interesting that it doesn't feel particularly tragic. And I want to He got to have a peaceful life.

Yeah, he got those bonus years, the alternative was very much being blown up. And it sounds like he died in like, obviously, he did die of injury. So I'm sure it wasn't that pleasant. But he died like waxing lyrical about his Russian friends and Yeah, and telling the nurses and he had his diary, he got to live a life until he eventually sang his homesickness and the Russians found a way to get him home. And that's really interesting to me. And then as a contrast, you have Jim Russo, who's the worst. Tomato, tomato. But it's a great way to demonstrate this kind of innovative and not innovative human greed that comes with these infinite resources.

Rubby little money people. Yes. So he immediately is like, oh, hang on, so I can go get gold. He travels and goes looking for gold and then realizes it's completely worthless. And gets so angry. He doesn't realize he is told it's completely worthless. And she's partly angry because he's lost so much face in this, is people coming and telling him something he wouldn't have worked out for himself. And we know people like that, that get angry at the person who hasn't even embarrassed them because they've embarrassed themselves. Yeah, those people are mocking him. There's like a smugness to it that anyone would find

frustrating but also like Russo is so unlikable. It's great, not just as a character thing but also for telling us again how the world works that with the earth opening up things become devalued because anyone could get it. And then he's immediately become, not immediately, but within a couple of years become somebody who has indentured labor. Yeah, capitalism is the villain all along. And there are conversations in the book, Monica Jansson thinks about it a lot when she goes to see him of people are trying to create these new sweatshops and things, but it also kind of doesn't work because people can just step away.

things. But it also kind of doesn't work because people can just step away. And that's a lovely thing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Again, it's this conceptual satisfaction. The way that we all think this should work. And that if you are treating your employees like shit, they can just walk off. Yeah. It stops capitalism from getting to be the successful villain. Yeah. Which we haven't really mentioned at all, the trans-earth and the Douglas Black of it all because it's not really very present in the first half of this book. Yeah, we'll talk about that a lot at some point, even if not that much in this book.

It is looming and sinister. Yeah, any big compilation, especially with a name like Douglas Black. It's a powerful name. It's a powerful name. It's a powerful name. And that worries me. Sinistrous. Sinisterness. Never mind.

Sinistrosity. Sure. I'll take it. I'm not going to try and say it, but I'll take it. And then who else we have? Hermione Dawes, I love. Yay. Again, like a really nice bit of writing that we go here's a character and then here is an extra detail about the

character. In this case, she loves Bob Dylan. It's kind of a similar thing because you've done it with Sister Agnes and Steinman and meatloaf and all that. Sorry, I forgot meatloaf for a second. and meatloaf and all that. Sorry, I forgot meatloaf for a second. It's like sausage, crumpet, meatloaf. You had a three in bed. She's our window into what's happening in the UK during all of this, which is unsurprisingly that it's a shit show. I can imagine so many of our recent prime ministers in that scene as well. Rishi Sunak being a particular someone. David Cameron, Rishi Sunak, just the bumbling pot boy. Yep. But even Kistama I could see there as well. Rishi Sunak being a particular someone. David Cameron, Rishi Sunak, just the bumbling pot

boy. Yep. But even Kissed Armor I could see there as well. Oh yeah. And then there's nice details added with the Bob Dylan obsession. She's got this ring that's engraved with a line from Hamar. I can't remember what the name of the song is now. But the line, she thinks about it, it mentions that her ring is engraved with a line and then she wondered if she was too old to get a job with the Masters as opposed to the Fools. And the line from that song, although the Masters make the rules for the wise men and

the Fools, I got nothing more to live up to. Yeah, very nice. And then later she writes a note in her immaculate shorthand before she leaves. And later they've got one of the other secretaries in to translate and it's a poem or a song lyric, something about people criticizing what they can't understand, which is- Even I get that one. As much as they are a-changing. Yeah, and they are. Which is not always so appropriate. They very much are. This idea of this small woman with a very, I don't know, small life, a very specific- Contained.

Contained life, shaped a certain way, dazzlingly intelligent in this very quiet way as well. Again, another aggressively competent woman, one of my favorite flavors of character. Little things like she knows she has her apartment searched regularly and she leaves a crumb of meringue for them to crush. Great detail. And then during one of Helen Green's diary entries later on, Hermione Dawes turns up. She's at EarthWest 100K taking records and writing down the stories of people as they come through, having some real history to record. She's married to a cowgirl.

And she's married to a cowgirl. It's a great quiet win for a tiny character. It overlaps with another character we've been following, which to go on to, you have the Green Family, which is a really great subplot because it's another big window into how all of this is working. Yeah. And not working. Yeah. I don't remember if I felt this strongly about it as I read the first time, but goddamn, leaving the parents here, both of them. I know the mother was the driving force here, but the dad agreed to it, leaving their son behind. Yeah, no, it was horrible to read. What the fuck? I know the mother was the driving force here, but the dad agreed to it, leaving their son behind.

Yeah, no, it was horrible to read. What the fuck? I don't remember being as upset by it the first time I read it as well. Again, I've matured. Yeah, we were young enough that we had no maternal instincts then, perhaps. Yeah, and I still don't have much of a maternal instinct, but I have enough to be quite happy with my choice. Yeah, absolutely. God damn it. I mean, yeah, just absolutely, absolutely mad. Like, could you not just wait until he was an adult? Yeah, or even then. Absolutely. God damn it. I mean, yeah, just absolutely, absolutely mad. Insane thing to do.

Just wait until he was an adult. Yeah. Or even then. Even then. You know what? Just don't do it. I mean, yes, don't do it. Or carry him. I think there might be a thing where people who can't step do get very, very ill if they're carried to you. That wouldn't have worked. Yeah. So you wouldn't be able to do what they're doing where they're crossing hundreds of worlds a day and stuff. carried. Yeah, you wouldn't be able to do what they're doing with it, crossing hundreds of worlds a day and stuff. Just take them five along. You know what, you can have a really

pioneering life five along. Yeah. 10 along, 20 along. Really, really take like a good few months to travel a bit for to travel close to but not that close to. Yeah, no, it's horrible. But it's again, it introduces another thing of how the world works through Rod, you have this window into the phobic people who can't step and what that means for those left on datum. And he's one example of what I'm sure is millions of people who are left behind and feel left behind. That's something like a fist, isn't it? Yeah. Which is a, I'm not going to do the math. It's a lot of people. Yeah, it's a frightening amount of people. It's enough to put a small splinter of disease, our knees into my head for this thing that would never happen anyway. But what if I was one of them? I would be so pissed off. I'd be so pissed off. They're so smart. They should have stayed home and worked on getting

fucking phobic people. I'm sorry. I just... No, I'm with you. Come on, guys. I'm fully with you. But then a bit of me also likes the green, this subplot, because it's all through the lens of like this young girl writing her journal. So it's this very sweet and kind of innocent, even if it is sad, look at it, although you then go slightly into Jack Green's point of view. And this idea of these frontier ideas and it being very inherently American, because this is a version of something Americans did once already. And this idea of these frontier ideas and it being very inherently American, because

this is a version of something Americans did once already. And this idea of it being mostly middle class types, because working classes wouldn't necessarily have the resources to go on an expedition like this and wealthier people were quite happy to stay back on Dayton with their home comforts. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it makes sense. I like the kind of foreshadowing you get with some of the characters as well. Like that, whatever his name is, Mr. Henry, who's smiling as he clubs a fish. And you're like, yeah, Patrick, right, somebody smiling as they club a fish, that man is going to be fucking trouble.

And there's other comments as well about him saying the women should be doing the chores. And but again, we're seeing it all through the eyes of this teenager who doesn't have that perspective on that being a nasty man. Yeah, because she's grown up with pretty progressive if inherently evil in a specific direction parents. Exactly. Franklin Telly man joining the expedition and again, it's just a nice here is logistics, we have to have a guy who does stuff like this. When you finally get to the point where Helen has become a blogger and is reading from her old journal on this radio, and Joshua and Lobsang come across it. And it's again,

it's that defamiliarization thing, because we know this character much better than they do. And they're getting this little snippet and that makes you zoom out and realize how small this one story is in this grand scheme of infinite worlds. I also like this kind of compressed old meets new tech thing. So it's, you know, steampunk is one thing, but this is like, you know, 1970s tech meeting 2010s tech, and that you're a blogger on a turns tech and that you're a blogger on a pirate radio. Yeah, it's weird. You're a blogger on pirate radio in a pioneer town. It's a great mix of things. And then just a couple of others, sorry, I know I'm really rambling now. The Australian characters, the scene with the Aboriginal guys, and I'm assuming Pratchett was using some things

here that he would have learned during his last consonant research. I talked when we talked about the last consonant about how he wrote very well and very respectfully about things like the dream time. And you know, dreams of the long earth, some dreams were new and at the same time, very, very old. And these guys figuring out, you know, and kind of bugging each other and building each other up. We're definitely going tomorrow. I don't want my face scraped off though. By the end of the next day, the songlines have begun to expand as the Never Never began to become the Ever Ever, although sometimes the blokes came back for a beer.

It was a beautiful idea. It finishes that little tiny chapter with the demographic that went off into the long earth the most. If you look at the context of Aboriginal history and these oral storytelling traditions and these oral history traditions, I thought that was a really beautifully written, but also funny little chapter. Yeah, definitely. And he's done it as well without being the whole, you know, the weird noble savage trope as well. Because these are blokes having a beer and saying like, you know, it was kind of our ancestors who fucked up the giant kangaroo. Are we all right with that? Let's not fuck up the giant kangaroo if we can and learn from our ancestors. Yeah, it was respectful without being preachy in any kind of way. I thought it was really well written. I think that's a white

person so, you know, traditional listeners, if you feel very differently about that, please do tell us and correct me. I'd be very interested. But on a non-Ferris postcard again. Again, non-Ferris postcard prefered. Little moments like Jared Orgill, which is another story Lobsang is telling to Joshua, who's a kid who discovers that he can step because this game they're playing where they like lock them in something and they have to step to get out, which is the sort of thing kids would come up with once this becomes a thing. Jess- There's a lot of claustrophobia triggers in here I've got to say. Sarah- I do not enjoy reading it. Yeah.

Jess- Yeah, the fridge and the cave. Sarah- Yeah, the cave one messed me up more than the fridge one. I'd a little look, see if there was a corresponding round world 17th century corpse found in Cheddar Gorge, but there was not as far as I can tell, unfortunately. But I did go down a minor rabbit hole relearning some stuff about the ancient remains that were found there. Oh yeah. I was in Cheddar Gorge, like not last year, year before, and we went around all the caves and

got to learn lots of stuff about that. Oh, nice. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, I'd love to do that one day. Yeah. And then I climbed Jepka's Ladder and my knees hurt for like two weeks afterwards. Yeah, I know. That's really unfit.

Yeah. But yeah, that's an interesting one because again, it goes into more of the natural stepping ability stuff and this theory of making the stepper box being like a technological mandala. I can be Tibetan for a moment. Yes. And this idea of it being something innate that is unlocked by this process of creating this thing and winding the coils, that really fascinates me and I love it. It's a little bit Arthident learning to fly in a way that it's kind of the opposite. But in a way that you've got to do something in your brain. Yes, you've got to find the little switch and turn it.

Again, another wonderful concept that you play with a lot more when you're a child but still love as an adult. If I just stare at this the right way, I can definitely fling this pot of paint onto the girl who's been mean to me. And Roald Dahl didn't do anything to disabuse us of this notion. No, between Roald Dahl and then Buffy, I was just really sure I was definitely going to be telekinetic. Yeah, I'm not quite let go of it yet. I've not fully let go of it mostly because if I was telekinetic, like, I'd like just stare at my laundry and it would hang itself up. That's my main thing now. That's the Mary Poppins flavor of kinetic magic. Look, a little bit of me has never

stopped wanting to be Mary Poppins when I grow up. I love her. I love her. Spitzbot. Spitzbot. As we've gone slightly off topic, one other thing I wanted to mention is... Julie Andrews has come up twice, by the way. Both times by me, I think this just says a lot about who I am as a person. Literally unrelated to this book. I really like Julie Andrews, okay? I'm normal about it. Troublesome nun, I suppose. It's less tenuous than Mary Poppins. Anyway, I do like the couple of references to the 14 times as well and lobster and taking

it very seriously. I've still not got myself a subscription. Do you know what I'm going to treat myself to that? Did I tell you I accidentally had one for a bit? You may have done but it sounds familiar but I forgot my story. Tell me again. Do you remember there used to be a magazine called Bizarre and it was like kind of an alt culture and lots of very attractive. Yeah. Yeah. But pierced and tattooed. I got my now ex subscription to Bazaar as like a birthday present. And then Bazaar like the magazine ended, but the company was also the company that

published 14 times. So it was right back if you want to just end your subscription. But otherwise, all we're going to do is transfer your subscription to the 14 times. And because of who I am as a person, I got like six months worth, I think, before I got around to cancelling the subscription. Yeah, nice. I don't have the copies of it anymore, but it was a fun read. Anyway, sorry, the last of the sort of small little vignette stories I want to mention was Sally Lindsay, who we will talk about more next week, obviously. But just this idea of stepping is new to the world, but it's really not new to her. So she's already comfortable with

the loaner mindset that it takes Joshua a bit longer to get to. As in she's confident in it and doesn't think it's anything wrong with her in any way, whereas I think Joshua worries about having that mindset at first. She's the original iPad kit equivalent. Yes. When she does step, her little chapter ends with something that puzzled horrendously since she was a little girl playing outside her father's shed in a stepwise Wyoming. Figure out what it was all for. There's the existential shoe starting to drop. Yeah. Hey. There you go. Run it around in a zaggle.

So yeah, all of that is basically to say that this is a really well-written book and I love how the story is delivered. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. reference for Neil for me. I do have an obscure reference for Neil for you, of course. So when Lobsang and Joshua are preparing, Lobsang talks about the Black Corporation Skunk Works. Yes. You know what that means? The facility

that's off the radar. Fine. Yes, whatever. So I googled that. Anyway, Skunk Works is an official pseudonym for Lockheed Martin's Advanced Development Programs. It's responsible for a number of aircraft designs. There we go. Exotic aircraft platforms was the phrase that I enjoyed the most there. But yeah, it was taken from... I really struggled to walk in. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, it was taken from the skunk oil factory in the comic strip, Lil Abner.

Lil Abner? Yeah. A comic strip I'm only aware of thanks to the New York Times crossword. Yeah, exactly. So yeah. But apparently now it's widely used in business to describe a group within the organization who is kind of allowed to operate on its own without red tape and biocracy. A black ops. Yes. Yes.

Yeah. Mulder and Scully. Specters in Mass Effect. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I thought that was interesting. I'll link to the bookie page because there's quite a lot of... It's a surprisingly long page and there are lots of things about planes that I don't understand, but some of our listeners might enjoy.

A delight. Awesome. Zoom. Right. I think that's everything we're going to say about part one of The Long Earth. We will be back next week with part two, which starts at the beginning of chapter 26 and then goes all the way to the end of the book. Yeah. If I didn't have responsibilities, I'd say we should start recording at half nine during the summer. But unfortunately we do need to... Yeah, we always pack up because we get to the end of the episode.

But yeah. We're very crepuscular at this time of year, aren't we? Very much so. I got... with this lighting as well, I look kind of like I've been caught on a wildlife cam. Which I think, yeah, really adds to the effect. I'm going to dart across with a bowl in my mouth. Right.

Sorry. I think that's everything we're going to say about the Long Earth part one. We'll be back next week with the Long Earth part two, which starts at the beginning of chapter 26 and goes all the way to the end of the book. And the end of the universe. Not yet. No, it's not. Sorry. Yeah, no. Just the universe has got some time left. It does seem like the thing to say. Until next time, dear listeners, you can of course join our Discord. There's a link down below.

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