The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - 55: Soul Music Pt 2 (Jail For The Co-Host)

Episode Date: June 14, 2021

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan and Francine Carrel, read and recap every book from Sir Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series in chronological order. This week, Part 2 of our recap of “Soul Music”. Birthday! Mockery! Eventually, Music!Find us on the internet:Twitter: @MakeYeFretPodInstagram: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretFacebook: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: [e-mail]: www.patreon.com/thetruthshallmakeyefretWant to follow your hosts and their internet doings? Follow Joanna on twitter @joannahagan and follow Francine @francibambi Things we blathered on about:Download Festival - WikiFrancine and Joanna at Download 2011The Meaning of Liff - GoodreadsThe Shakespeare Programming LanguageThe Magnus Archives – horror podcast | Rusty QuillHis Master's Voice - WikipediaFat Les, Vindaloo on Top Of The Pops and the Eastenders set - YouTubeMusic: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.com

Happy birthday. Thank you. Just in case we're now in the podcast. Is this the show? This is the pre-Ambly show bit? This is the show. We're in the show. We're in the podcast now. We're in the episode. We're in it. Well, I mean, who's ever... It's a reality. Can you ever know if you're really in a podcast? Can we not do birthday existential crises? I feel like you took us there. Yeah, all right, fair. I've got quotes here. I just wanted to make sure you weren't going to flash your tits again if I was going to be recording. Look, I can't walk away. I don't mean again, listeners.

I'm trying to keep the camera just up enough that we can't fully see my... Joanne, it's very beautiful dress. It's very hot. I know, no. I always sound sarcastic, but you do look lovely. Thank you. That's what I was going for. I'll look even more lovely later. If Francine's coming round tonight, do your business. Yeah, I'm coming around. Callum said he'd wear a shirt if I wore a dress, so we will be smartly attired. Excellent. I'll be overdressed because... Because it's you, yeah. Yeah, I have no other way to be.

Yes, it's my birthday. It's very exciting. 29, 29. There's so nobody's under any illusion. Joanne is the young one. I am. I am the youth of the podcast. We're both 29. No, we're both 29. The last month we'll both be in our 20s. Oh, my God, no. Why did I say that? Okay, you caused that existential crisis. Yeah, no, that was all me. That was all me. That was you. So at some point...

We look much better than we did at 21, I guess. We look and feel much better than we did at 21. My mental health is a lot better. Psychology also good, yeah. I'm having a ridiculous coffee. It's making me very happy. That looks fantastic. A little iced coffee there. Is it just my coffee, or have you put flavour in that? It's coffee and tonic. Okay. It works.

I've learnt better than to immediately judge you, unless it involves marmite. That's nice, is it? It is nice. I'm not a fan of tonic, but I will have tonic and... Very sweet things. It works with... I'm just using instant coffee right now, because I haven't got any proper coffee, but it works with sort of fruitier blends. I'm learning lots of that coffee at the moment. But also, I broke yet another French press.

The one that you ordered after you broke the last two? Yeah. I don't know what happens. They just keep breaking. Like, spontaneously, or are you knocking them onto the floor? Because if the latter, then I think I know what's happened. The first one broke. I think I must have caused it, and it cracked slightly while I was doing the washing up, and I didn't notice until I poured hot water in it. Luckily, I was using it to pour hot water into polished cutlery

and not making coffee in it at the time, so I didn't have to clean up coffee grounds, just boiling water. The second one, I knocked over while I was doing the washing up, and the third one, I knocked out of the cupboard, because I was trying to put something in the cupboard at the other side. Oh, I fucking hate that. Oh, that's the worst. That's so anger-inducing, isn't it? Yeah, and it landed on my foot as well before smashing.

Oh, that's the worst. Oh, no. Terrible. All right, now I have complete sympathy for you then. Yeah, I need to rearrange all of my kitchen cupboards. That's a little top. It's all just a bit accident prone, is it? It's all of it. I'm too short for most of them. I can't reach the top shelves in any of my cupboards. I could barely, actually.

Yeah, and I did have a handy little stool, but it turned out it belonged to the maintenance guy, and he found it while he was doing a visit, so I sort of had to keep it back. So, again, I'm going to get you that for your birthday. You never think of stuff until it comes to it, does it? I'm very bad at thinking of things I want. No, no, no. I'm the same. I'm the same.

I can't think of anything to ask for this year, and as soon as it comes to it, I'll... Yeah, because I am not in kitchens now for a bit. I have got my sister getting me a gels kit for my birthday, which I'm very excited about. I can have pretty nails. Yeah, it was a very exciting week, isn't it? Because it's your birthday, and can we tell listeners? You're no longer a chef.

We can. We can tell listeners, because I'm pretty sure no one I work with listens to the podcast. Yeah. Yeah, I am no longer a chef. I did my last shift at the restaurant I work at. Last shift. The restaurant thing I still work there, and we'll do for another month,

so that I can make sure they pay all of my holidays. Ah, right. Okay. Well, it's probably fine. Yeah, no. I am 90% sure no one I work with listens to this podcast. No one has read my Terry Bradshaw. That'd be much cooler. Oh, no, like Alex, I could imagine. Your head chef. I have been trying to convince him to try it.

He's not a big fantasy fan. He's more into sci-fi, but he said he's going to get the Tiffany Aking books for his daughter. Oh, well, I'll get into it through that one, yeah. Yeah, we'll get there. I've only met him once, and I scared him, but I understand he's quite a nice person. How did you scare my head chef? Because I was looking for you,

and I didn't make it clear who I was, and I'm just generally quite unapproachable, unless I'm trying quite hard, and I think I was wearing a mask. Oh, right, yeah. Like, because of pandemic, not through threatening behavior masks, you know. Yeah, you understand that. It wasn't like a Maggie Thatcher rubber mask or anything.

Yeah, you never do wear your Margaret Thatcher rubber mask, Francine. Why is that? People just take it the wrong way, I don't know. I mean, you should probably stop taking milk away from children and ruining the livelihoods of coal miners. The truth should make you fret, but I'd like to make it clear that we do not, in any way, condone the actions of Margaret Thatcher.

Indeedy. But yes, it's been a bit of a week, and at some point we're going to get interrupted because I am very cool and ordered myself flowers for my birthday. Oh, nice. Pretty, pretty good. I really like being given flowers, and it just suddenly occurred to me

that I can just buy myself flowers. I ordered a little vase to come with flowers, because I don't really have... I've only got one vase, and it's full of dead flowers. Are they important dead flowers, or do you...? Oh, yeah, no, they're like commemorative. They're from the first time I saw the Dress and Dolls. Amanda Palmer always had flowers tied to her keyboard,

so I got some of the flowers afterwards, and I've dried them and kept them. That's nice. Yes, they're sentimental dead flowers. I'm not just very... I'm also very bad at looking after plants. Tied slightly to the book. We spent quite a lot of time at gigs on your birthday

in the past, haven't we? We used to always... Or I can remember at least one. We used to always be at Download Festival. Yeah, definitely. Death Leopard on your 18th is the one I'll... 19th. 19th, sorry.

It's about to say the one I'll always remember, to be not very accurately, but I remember it. Were you there on my 18th? What happened? No, you couldn't make it on my 18th. Were you in Australia? I think I was in Australia for years. I think you had just moved to Australia.

Yeah, I was at the Download on your 17th, but I wasn't hanging out with you that much. I was in Australia or just about to ghost and have the money, and... My 19th, we camped together. We shared a tent. Yeah, and I really needed a wee, the entire set. What, for Death Leopard?

We didn't even last the entire set. We stayed through, pour some sugar on me, and then we both left because we needed the loom more than we wanted to watch it. I'm so bad. We needed it all through whoever the fuck was on first, and then... I'm trying to remember who was...

Finn Lizzie was on that day as well. That's it, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I remember gluing up false eyelashes on Turing Finn Lizzie, and the darkness. Yes, that's the year we've got picked to be drawing on me when I fell asleep. We'd both drawn each other to be fair. Yeah, but it would, you know, we're nice.

They were nice, like little designs. We aren't actually on each other's face. No one drew a willy. No, no one drew a willy. I don't need that in my life. I remember using like a Sharpie type eyeliner, and it did just stay on for the entire weekend, but I still couldn't get it off when I got home.

Yes, yeah, that happened. I slightly miss going to festivals. Considering download next year. We said it before. I missed being 17. I don't want to be at a festival now. I don't... I don't want to do it.

Sorry, Bajo. I can't do it. I'll do a day. Yeah, well, I... Download specifically, I don't think I could necessarily do. I would have to drink so much, but like, latitude or...

I was hoping to go to Green Man this year. Obviously, they don't work out. Yeah, I come to a little hippie one or something. That'd be fine. As long as we pay for the nice areas. I'm not doing fucking boiling noodles and beer anymore. That's... Yeah, no.

VIP, glamping, shit, all of that stuff. Yeah, fairy lights and crap like that. Elvlar cordial. Let's go to a gentrified festival. A neat bullshit, yeah. White girl bullshit, you know. Gentrification is bad, but also, I don't want to camp that near this moment.

I'm not sure if it counts as gentrification of a field, does it? I don't... I don't know. Lassitude... I feel like latitude was always gentrified. Lassitude just feels like it is the physical form of gentrification.

It is a Waitrose Festival. Saying that, I've never actually been to Lassitude, so I can't really do it. I know, I feel the same for my 21st birthday. Yes, it's your birthday next month. It is, yeah, I'll be 30. Let's deal with that when we get there. Yes, but we're going to go to the seaside.

Yeah, probably. And have a picnic. Yeah. And, I don't know, frolic. I guess we could frolic, yeah. I'll frolic, yeah, I'll frolic. I can frolic, I can still frolic, it's fine. I enjoyed this part of the book more.

Yay! Because it's got ridcully in it. I forgot. Yes. I'm very, always very happy to see ridcully. And... I'm always very excited about ridcully. Minimal amounts of the rest of the plot, so...

Wizzards, I love wizards. We do like the wizards. He's not really in it much, but the raven's still hanging out for this episode. Oh no, absolutely, he needs to be. I tried to make the cuddly toy raven a little birthday hat and then I gave up very quickly. Yeah, that's for the past.

Because I realised there were many other things I should actually be doing. Oh, well, I'm glad you're having such a nice start to your birthday. You deserve it, you deserve it. It has been a year. And it has now been exciting. I think we can see this as the refresh point

rather than New Year's, can't we? Because it's a... You've got a birthday refresh, you've got a career refresh, you've got a small cuddly raven. I've looked over at the other half of my screen where I've got the episode summary and I've managed to misspell Librarian. Excellent, well done.

How have you spelt it? Librarian. Librarian. Librarian. Yep. So we're going to go with that. Yeah, sure. I could fix the typo before we get on to the

proper episode. Am I going to...? No. No, why would you? Who's going to see it apart from you? No one will know. How would they know? Well, I just told them.

No one's going to know. Right, shall we make a podcast? Yeah, let's make a podcast. Hello and welcome to The True Shall Make He Fret, a podcast in which we are reading and recapping every book from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series, one at a time, in chronological order. I'm Joanna Hagen.

And I'm Francine Carroll. And this is part two of our discussion of soul music. Oh, yeah. They're having fun. There's music. It's soulful. There are souls. It does seem to be soulful.

There are souls because death's involved. Yeah, we have souls. We've got music. Or it is his soul because it's taken him over. The music is his soul. Look, it's very early in the episode to get metaphysical, Francine. Okay, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. Before we get metaphysical, note on spoilers. We are a spoiler light podcast. Obviously, heavy spoilers for the book we're on, soul music, but we will avoid spoiling major future events in the Discworld series. And we're saving any and all discussion

of the final Discworld novel, The Shepherd's Crown, until we get there. So you, dear listener, can come on the journey with us. Crowdsurfing across the cabin. Excellent. I like that one. That's Francine. Would you like to tell us what happened previously

on soul music? Absolutely. Previously on soul music. Definitely not a druid in Pleve's Klamados for Ank Morfork, the city where dreams are made of and then sat upon. The budding musician teams up with fellow skint songsters, Claude and Cliff.

Rebrands acquires an eldritch instrument and becomes possessed by a music with rocks in. Meanwhile, the Grim Reaper's granddaughter inherits the role and all bony goes awol again. Susan's logical mind is forced to open as she follows in her father's footsteps, taking up the side and witnessing the not death of the rather elvish bud.

Exciting. In this section of soul music, the middle bit. The middle bit. Section two. At two in the morning and in the rain, detritus guards the Ank Morfork opera house. He briefly chats to a moving piano as Cliff and Buddy work to round out their sound.

At the unseen university, feet are tapping as the librarian starts building and the arch chancellor works at his snooker table and the dean plays guitar. The wizards continue to act weird and the arch chancellor gets concerned. Meanwhile in the Clatchy and Desert, death digs down. Susan tests her ethereal talents with a makeover

as the librarian's handiwork continues and Claude hires the amply talented ape as the band's new keyboardist. Susan heads backwards for answers and learns that the music's taken over but matters will apparently resolve themselves. The band perform again at the mended drum with the librarian on the keys.

The wizards, the Guild and Susan all attend. The band inspire something alive. The piano explodes. Susan stops the Guild from nefarious activities and Dibla proposes a deal with a contract. The band head for new digs as Ridcully consults Stibbins and the students on the nature of the music and madness.

Meanwhile, Blurt Wielder unfinds business booming as Ank Mor-Porkian's shock for guitars of their very own to recreate the music with Roxxon. Ridcully works out a way to record as Mrs Whitlow undergoes a makeover. Dibla gets the guys a gig at a troll bar. Crash, Jimbo, Skars and Noddy form their own band and get a gig as the supporting act.

But he demands to arrange a free concert before the show can go on and Dibla plots a way to make more money out of Mor-Porkian's as he prepares to send the band on tour. Surely not. The band play an encore. The music plays through them. Later that night, Buddy sleeps in the Gritz Hotel

as a concerned Cliff and Glod go back to check the origins of his mysterious guitar. They find something in the strange shop that might not have been there yesterday and might not be there tomorrow that they left behind a few days ago and they head for the street of cunning artificers. Meanwhile, Susan attempts to warn Buddy of the impending doom

but is rudely interrupted by the rite of Ashkent and summons to the unseen university where Ridcully offers a breakfast of burgers before Susan has a realisation. And meanwhile, Death drinks at the drum before remembering how to forget and taking a dramatic tumble. I was very impressed by the description

of the geometric fall. I don't think I'll put that in any effort. I nearly had it as my quote, to be fair. Is that what they had in... Did they describe it similarly in Reaper Man? Was I just remembering this? No, I think it was described similarly in Reaper Man. Death does not sag gently at the knees.

He simply goes from upright to not. Jack would approve. Jack is a connoisseur of a good fall in media. I do like watching looking for people who can do a good pratfall. Unrelated to everything, apart from the fact it popped into my head while you were talking.

Would you call a groupie of cliffs a cliffhanger? I would now. Excellent, well done. Thank you. Helicopter and loincloth watch. Crisis face. The troll is not wearing a loincloth. He is wearing a suit.

Good. Negative loincloth is still loincloth. As artists will tell you, negative space is important. Exactly. So we have negative loincloth. Space where the loincloth is implied. But not there.

Helicopters are also strongly implied. Because Leonard of Querm is mentioned. Yes, Leonard of Querm is mentioned. And he... He does lovely war machines. The librarian appears to be trying to design something mobile. He's stolen some wheels.

Yes. Bit worried about that. We'll see. I'm ready all the way through here. You'll find out, won't you? Obviously, I did years ago. I don't remember any of this. It's quite nice, really.

It's like reading a new practice book. Except I kind of know what's happening as it happens. I've said this before, haven't I? Like, it's one of those... Oh, wait, I remember this. I'm remembering it as it goes on. And it's not quite the same

as reading something new. Yeah. I think I'm going to have that experience next month when we do Interesting Times. So I think I've only read that once before. Oh, cool. Yeah. I think we'll be doing a Switchy then

because I've read that a lot. Yes. Yeah. Right. I believe your quote is before mine. Well, you've got a good amount of post-its this month. Look at that.

That's only two thirds, yeah. Yeah. That's all of them. Sorry, yeah, quite. You're quite right. You're quite right indeed. It is when Ridd Cully is talking to Ponda, the entirety of which I enjoyed very much,

fucking Ridd Cully, he's great. And when he is trying to explain that he's lost his faculty, as in university staff, and Ponda says, which one? Well, for what, Chancellor? What? Sorry.

They looked at each other in incomprehension, two minds driving opposite ways up a narrow street and waiting for the other man to reverse first. Which I just think is absolutely a sublime description of so many of my conversation. No, of that very specific misunderstanding moment, and neither of you are really willing to go, what the fuck are we talking about?

And it's so perfect to Ridd Cully and Ponda's relationship as well, because they both are very, very intelligent men who just come at things from completely opposite directions. Absolutely. I know I'm standing Ridd Cully a lot here, but Ponda's coming into his own as well, this book, I must say. I'm enjoying the Ponda development.

The old student. Sort of old student, and he's a really good foil to Ridd Cully as well. Yeah, yeah. I think he becomes more solid in his foiliness. Foiling. Good. But yeah, as time goes on,

but this is a very good smell for them, Ponda. Early inkling of it. So what's yours? Mine is a very, very short one. There was a pool of light in a grove of bassoons. It's just the one line, I just really, really like that description. I liked the idea of a grove of bassoons.

It is nice. Very good. A more organised me would have probably done lots of research into the silly mythological instruments that did things. The trumpets, the Bible one, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I wrote out, like the rest of my notes was like, I just not going to be talking about that as well. The listeners don't need that from me. No, mythological musical instruments could be a rabbit hole at some point. Oh, that could be a phone one actually. So yes, I might rabbit hole down that. I might go down that rabbit hole another time. I had one mimosa.

One, one mimosa. Two, two, no. And there is no alcohol in my iced coffee. Maybe there should be alcohol in your iced coffee? Yeah, possibly. You need more or less something. That's all I'm saying. Sorry, what are we doing?

We're doing our characters. Characters. People, what we've seen. People, what we've seen, we've seen. We've seen detritus. It's nice. We have. Hi, detritus.

He's trying. He's trying his best. There's just something very sweet about, I decided, well, I like that he's learned the lesson from Colin of being a not always brilliantly efficient policeman. And if you've got to guard something at two o'clock in the morning, choose something very big like an opera house. Yeah, I get the impression that he's also slightly more earnest about it than Colin,

although obviously he's still skiving off a bit. But somewhere in his head, it's like, well, someone could steal it. I don't know. Yeah. Colin had pursued this policy for years as a result of which no major landmark had ever been stolen, apart from the unseen university, but it was a student prank. But I like that he's just not entirely sure if the things that are happening

should be happening or not. About an hour earlier, a 64-foot organ pipe had dropped out of the sky, but he wasn't sure if that was criminal, and maybe that's just where you get organ pipes from. Yeah, who knows? I don't know where organ pipes come from, probably not the sky. But probably, not definitely. He doesn't know what noise the opera house makes at 2 a.m.

That might be correct. Yeah, opera houses probably do make quite weird noises at 2 a.m. Yeah, it depends on the opera house, but it might more folk, certainly. It's all the phantoms. I mean, if you get phantoms in your opera house, it's a nightmare. You have to get the extermination room right away once they get in the walls, you're fucked. Yeah, don't talk to me about the chandeliers.

All right, we shouldn't be making these jokes now. We've got an actual book where we can make these jokes before the end of this year. Someone's done this, haven't they? And then who have we got after Detroiters? Ah, yes, the faculty of the Unseen University. Let's talk about a few of them. Which ones have you pinpointed as our stars?

Well, I always like to pick one of the more ridiculous titles, and I've gone with the reader in esoteric studies. Yes, he must be a friend of the reader of Unseen Runes, I'm guessing. I believe so. But the sort of joke is that the reader of esoteric studies is one who basically reads those weird little books that you get in toilets. Yeah, I would like this job.

But this is a weird little thing. So we have this growing up. We have like a little shelf of silly books in our bathroom. I don't do this at home now. Is this something you haven't... Yeah, why don't... Yes, actually, I don't know if we did, but certainly it's something I've seen in a lot of people's...

I think it's quite an upper middle class thing. Yeah, a date, no, that's fine. No, that's fine. I think we always rented, so you can't really put... You don't often get built-in shelves in bathrooms, usually. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, no, it's quite normal to me to see a little thing of just random... Are we funny street signs or...?

Yeah, the reason I remember it very clearly is because obviously I'd pick one of these books to sort of read in the bath or something, especially when I was a kid, and no one was really worried. Oh, what if she reads something inappropriate? I know Board of the Rings was there. Yeah, let us to the telegraph, usually something like that. We had...

What I still maintain is one of the greatest comedy books ever written, The Deeper Meaning of Lyft, which Douglas Adams worked on. It's a long-running thing, so there's an original one, and then it's been added to over the years, but it's a book of words for things we don't have words for, and all the actual words are place names. Oh, fun. But obviously they're quite ridiculous place names,

and I cannot think of an example now. I remember one that always made me giggle, especially because there was a little diagram and it was a word for the fold over an ill-fitting bra. I can hardly recommend picking up a copy. Meaning of Lyft. If you come across it. I enjoy writing down the funny place names

that come across while traveling in the UK, actually. We do have some crackers. We do. I think I've got a blog post of some that I saw of just going from Staffordshire back to Berry or something. It's not even the rude ones. It's just the ones that are somehow just a hilarious set of syllables.

Yeah, absolutely. No billed on. Yeah, crap like that. Colin, I'll find what I'm on about, actually. Well, you tell me about the next one. Yeah, who am I going next? Oh, no, I'm going to go on about Ridcully. Fucking Ridcully.

Oh, he's brilliant. Oh, I love Ridcully. Honestly, contender for my favourite character in the desk world. He's definitely in my top. He's in the pantheon. He is aggressively competent, which I enjoy, and a person. He has a lot of characteristics that in a different character

are written in a different way. I would hate, especially if a person in real life, he's very stubborn. He's not willing really to listen or learn. He's quite patronising, but I think it's late in the section. When he's speaking to Susan and she finds herself quite charmed by him. Yeah, yeah, he's just he's got charisma in it. Yeah, Susan had never experienced charm before.

Ridcully possessed quite a lot of it in a twinkly-eyed sort of way. Yeah, I think we've all met him, possibly not quite so. He is the distilled version of this man we have all met. Yes, he's sort of loud and brash and very excitable, and you can't help but be quite entertained by it. Yeah, yeah. The fucking wizard's dialogue with Ridcully and it's just, I'm going to have to try and explain it properly one day.

I don't know what it is, but it's just the fucking funniest thing, honestly. It is some of the funniest stuff in any of the Disciple Books. And I think it's just the comedy of refusing to understand. Yeah, I think so. Something in this communication. It can't just be that, because I hate comedies of areas of miscommunication stuff. I can't stand that stuff on TV or whatever. I think it's not miscommunication as a lazy way to drive plot.

It is simply people saying lots of words at each other and then accepting it. And that's not a particularly good description either. Yeah, there's also like the, I don't know, it's just that it is the pacing and the sentence structures and they're just bad show old man or bad show that man. Well, that's from the last continent, but yeah. Oh, it's great. There's this, there is a really, I wouldn't normally like this, but Pratchett's allowed to do it.

I'm not normally a big pun person, but there is a moment where there... You always say that. You always fucking join in when I go, though. Yeah, I know. You try and take the moral high ground, but I see you. I see you there with your pun section of your brain. I'm not a pun person, so I'm not quick enough with them. Well, I'm not very quick with them, I must say.

I can usually rattle off one or two, but we did used to hang out with pub regulars who could just... Yeah, I think that's why I stopped liking them because you'd get like, especially there were a couple of men that I used to work with who would stand there and they could just five minutes of rattling fish ponds off at each other. Yeah. And I maybe come up with by the end of that, oh, I'm sorry, I didn't quite catch that. Yeah. But the moment where...

At least you knitted one. Sorry, I can't help it. The lecturing recent runes has got carried away playing drums with a bunch of kitchen equipment. And then people sort of say, oh, he's kind of smart for hours. It's hot as mustard. I'll take that as a pinch of salt. And there's something about red coli going, I hope that someone's going to say something.

I bet you're all trying to think of something silly to say about pepper. And I just want to know what's the difference between this faculty and a bunch of pea-brained idiots. Yeah, yeah, I just... If somebody who has the linguistic capacity to explain comedy properly can explain to me why I love wizard's dialogue so much, then I would be very grateful because I wish I could explain it to people. I don't need to explain it to you lovely listeners, although it probably would be helpful as its podcast because you get it, you get it,

you're reading it. It's fun. You'll practice it too, I assume. If not, this is a weird thing for you to be listening to. But we support you anyway. Thank you for listening. I guess, yeah. I mean, not really.

I want to know the motivation of anyone who listens to us who doesn't like Terry Fratchett. We're just really... Like a hate listener. I don't want to be a hate listener. That ends badly. Yeah, all right, fine. One of the... Going on to the wizards and red coli and things I love about it is

this has really come through more with the Dean, is that he is the one that gets caught up in this thing. The most. He was so excited about the movies and now he is doing his hair, trying to learn to play guitar. He's got his live fats die. He tries. He tries.

He's riveting jeans by the end of it. I know. It's just so sweet. He's got his crepe shoes. Yeah, I meant to look those up. I don't really know what crepe shoes look like. Well, it's a reference to the blue suede shoes thing, I think. What?

Because obviously there's another reference to this one. Yeah, we're also a type of shoe. Yeah, no, they're like the thick sports. Everyone wore them, right? Like creepers. Oh, because creepy. Yeah, creepy paper. Sorry, I read that whole section twice and all I could think of was Nandor

and what we do in the shadow shopping for creepy paper. Yeah. I might have watched too much what we do in the shadows recently. It's a good show. It's a very good show. Yeah, it's from a movie. I've never seen the movie. The movie is also very funny.

Different cast. Yeah. It's Taika Wattiti, who is one of my favourite people. Oh, okay. I do love the Matt Berry, but I will try that out at some point. Have you watched the Bowe Burnham special yet? Sorry, I'm not getting back on topic. No, I've heard a million people tell me I should,

but it looks like something I really need to be in the right mood for. Yeah, I'm going to watch it soon. I'll tell you. It's anything like made in quarantine. I generally like made in pandemic. I'm not annoyed that those things exist. I think they're. It's not ready yet.

It's not even not ready yet. It's just it's rare. I find them entertaining. One of the ones things that did do it incredibly well was Mythic Quest, which is a show I'm really into at the moment. They had a pandemic or recorded on Zoom episode, and it just had the exact right balance of taking the piss out of people who did the Imagine video, actual massive emotional vulnerability,

and the episode ends on a brilliant high note. I do really want to see that, but I'm not paying for Apple TV. Yeah, I mean, I probably wouldn't. I would honestly recommend Apple TV just to watch the show because I really love it. But I'd like to wait till the second series is done, get a free trial, binge it, and then get rid of it. If you wait till July, then you can do it. So the new series of Ted Lassai is out and binge that as well.

Because Ted Lassai is so lovely. It is something that on paper sounds terrible, which is it's a sitcom about a very well-meaning American coming to coach an English football team. But it's really good. Jason Siddicus is really funny. It's written by Bill Lawrence. He did Scrubs.

I like Jason Siddicus. It's very heartwarming. It's got. Oh, I cannot remember the actress's name, but she played Scepter and Ella and Game of Thrones. And she's very funny. She's very stern. Anthony Schuerthead turns up.

You know, I'm always happy for Anthony Schuerthead to turn up in things. Yes. It's the only reason I watched Merlin. God, that was a bad show. OK, right. Right. I know this is my fault that I'm going to drag us back now because he said Merlin.

Speaking of Merlin, he's a wizard. He's a wizard. Wow. There we go. I found our portal back. We got really lost there. You started me talking about TV. You know I love TV.

I know, I know. I'm sorry. I've run out of things to watch. I needed you to talk for a bit so I could find something. I'll give a longer list of recommendations that at the end of the episode. OK, cool, cool, cool. Where are we?

Stibbins and the students. We already kind of talked about, you know, the Stibbins and Ridcully relationship is really coming into its own. I like the students who all got the stupid names like Scars and Big Mad Drongo because it was great. It's the fucking nerd Brigade. It is Adrian Turnipseed.

Yeah, he comes back, right? We know him. I think his name is definitely mentioned again. One interesting thing, I had a look at Annotated Pratchett and apparently the name of the man who caused the accident that killed James Dean's surname was Turnipseed. Oh. It was Donald Turnipseed.

I don't know if it's an intentional reference or not, but it's not a particular, it isn't a particularly common name, but also Turnipseed is quite a funny name. It's going to stick in your head, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, so it may not have been intentional. Well, nice as they. Fun fact.

The, I noticed a couple of Weatherwax Ridcully Powerdolls actually, which is rather interesting. Yeah, just a couple of tiny things, like Ridcully turning someone into a frog for 10 minutes or whatever and Ridcully having no truck with the youngsters' self-given names. I thought it was there.

Yeah, fun little, yeah, the difference being, of course, Ridcully has Chrisma. Yes. I think he also, he has no truck in a different way. He has no truck, but he's also sort of exasperated by it because he's used to students and this is what they do. I like that.

Yes, he's not offended by it. He doesn't think it's like watering down the importance of magic. He's like, yes, all right, but what's your actual name? Thank you. I'm not going to call you a big mad drongo. Obviously, I'm not going to say that with my mouth.

It makes me very happy. I'd also like the fact that the wizards are also horrified to remember that they're students at the university. Yeah, Fonda's like, that's all right, isn't it? This is a university. I was like, that's so close. I don't want to be around someone.

And also to clarify, the students hang out in the High Energy Magic Building, which is a fun location that will crop up again. And they've got an added counter that's a very early computer type thing. Yeah, with a little mini stone circle as an end of the end phase, which is fun. Yes, we would have the whole stone circles

as laptop things as computers. They took it up to this massive early computer. But again, I think we might see you in the future. I think we might see you in the future. But this is, I've read some of how early computers worked with the punched out holds and cards and how it works with binary. I don't really 100% understand it,

but I understand it. But I can see that it is a reference. This is very clever. That was the thing. I think I mentioned this on the podcast at some point, that it's so similar to how knitting patterns are designed that a lot of old women were involved in early computing design.

Yeah, I think you did mention it. I'm not sure if it was... It's because it's a similar kind of binary system. That shakes bit of programming language you found the other day was quite fun. Yes, I want to have an actual play with that and have a bit more of a look at how it works. It's a very clever idea.

Anyway, the book. Yes. Sorry. Staying in Inkmore Park, but going from the university to the palace, we have Vettanari. Yay. Who I just want to...

He's not amused. He's not amused by this thing happening. He's very annoyed that things keep happening in this fucking city. That's how he put it. It's exactly how he put it. That was a direct quote. It's just a really fun detail of his character

that he likes reading music and he doesn't see any reason why it should be put onto violin strings and torches like that. Oh yeah, it's very sweet. Yeah, he doesn't like music that's ever played. It ruined music to torment it by involving it on dried skins,

bits of dead cat and lumps of metal hammered into wires and tubes. It is just a really good character detail. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's not something you'd think of, but it is perfect. And he doesn't have a lot to do in this section. He's just sort of there observing.

It's nice to have him. Again, it's one of those... This is a book that's very of the city and it's nice that the whole stable is there to play with. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, it's notable that Nari is aware of what's happening.

Yeah. Even if he doesn't immediately affect anything. And then obviously we've got Dibbler who's got himself right involved. I can Dibbler. Oh, he's getting worse and worse with his management. I mean, he's effective still, but with screwing people over.

Yes, he is an arse. But I can't find it in myself to be annoyed at him. Oh, no, no. I liked particularly that when he was talking about the trapped music when he practiced that his voice was sick with money. I also like that the magic of the music just does not affect him.

And it was kind of similar with the movies. He has a sort of brain that is never swept up in anything but the profits of something. Yeah, he knew he should be going to Hollywood, but he wasn't interested in seeing the films, whatever he was... Yeah, and he didn't want to be a star. He can smell the profit, yeah.

And the same with this. He knows the music is something that's going to make him a lot of money, but he doesn't at any point enjoy listening to the music. Yeah, stands outside. And then funny little bit characters. We've got Blert Weedown and his assistant Gibson, the guitar makers.

Bert Weedon, I think I've got that I could be wrong, is someone who writes easy how to play simple chords. Yeah. And Gibson is obviously quite a famous guitar brand. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Some people have heard of them. I am not very good with the rock and all role.

Oh, no, no. And instruments thereof. I own a guitar. Oh, good. Well, then you... It's currently unstrung. Yes, I own a keyboard, which is in a box. I am actually thinking about getting a keyboard,

because... Yes, you have been for a year, though. Yeah, I know. But then I get distracted and buy other shit. I know, I know. I know the feeling. We've got the support band Insanity. Yes.

I'm assuming he's a reference to Madness. Yeah, probably, right? I'm quite upset there isn't a one-step-beyond joke in there, just because that song always brings me quite a lot of joy. Yeah, yeah. And they are not very good at... Oh, sorry. I didn't sleep.

I'm not spooring your fancy. No, no, no. I did not get back to sleep. Yeah, same. So, yeah, Crash, Jimbo, Scum and Noddy. Very good. Excellent. Very bad at the...

They've got this narrative, the thing, but they're bad at actually doing it. I like... You see lots of little snippets of people getting into the different music all around the city, but I like that you've kind of got them as the representation of what's happening in lots of places. Yeah.

Like that they're in the coach house, because it's the equivalent of the garage band thing. Yeah. Yeah, they're the upper middle class boys being the grunge. Yeah, trying to be cool in their garage. They're fun. I like them. Asphalt.

The roadie. I get it. Look, I've read this book a lot of times, and I like just got the joke this time. So, I'm glad we explained that to the listeners. And then I want to talk about Susan before we go on to the main bit of the what's it. I suppose we should talk about Susan.

The main character of the book. Wow, kind of. She is, I would argue. I'd say Rick Cully. Rick Cully is not the main character. This is our book about Rick Cully. Just because he's your favorite character does not mean he is the main character.

That's not how this works. Oh, well, I've been doing this very wrong. Yes, anyway, Susan, she's fine. My Raven's upside down, sorry. Good, well done. I like her sort of identity crisis, thinking about her name and her appearance. And she's sort of a bit bored of being a resolutely dull Susan.

And manages to at least make herself an unsusan-ish dress to where she's working as death. And I like that as much as she's determined not to be woolly thinking and to not be one of those girls. Oh, but I might make myself a nice little place. Maybe a bit more bodice. There we go.

There you go. Yeah. Actually, she's 16. What are you going to do? Oh, no, I think it's again, it follows on from what I was saying last week. I think it's really, really good writing. That's what 16-year-old girls are like.

Yeah, she was very kind of dismissive of basically a description of her mother. Yeah. There's some good stuff about both of her parents, but I'm going to talk about a lot of the callbacks in a bit. But you've got later on, she gets called the fuck out. Yeah. This is when she is in the...

It's not really a flashback, but when she's gone back in time to speak to death. And this is not the current death. This is the death of Mort. So this is the death that hasn't been through the character development of Reaper Man, although he remembers it. Yeah, it's a thing.

And she accuses him of being scared to change the world. And he's just saying, oh, you say that to me, you stand there in your pretty dress and say that to me. Could you find the courage to accept it? And I... He did a nice little nihilistic rant, I must say that.

It's a very good nihilistic rant. And I think it's really important for her, because she hasn't really thought about much more, but she's been very arrogant. And I think she did need that bringing down to earth. Yeah. Not that she's not still going to try and change things, because she's very...

Because that's the human side of her. She does need reminding how very different she is from the real death. Yeah. How lacking in power she is comparatively. And she's still, even after that, she's still very proud when she's summoned, when she goes to the university.

She's very pleased that they want to ask her things. Yeah, so people are listening to me. And that's totally understandable. If you're a 16-year-old girl, and you find yourself in a position of power for the first time, you'll listen to. I'd have been terrified. I would have been drunk.

I was not a healthy teenager. But I understand that feeling of pride. Getting that power and being listened to when you're a young woman, and you don't get it very often, is a very heady thing. And it's immediately followed up with... I did use a purple post-it for the occasion,

the fun little patronising moment on the wizards, which they sort of get a bit scared of her after they've called her some girl messing about. And they're sort of saying, oh, it's about time girls got a chance in professions. There's no reason death has to be male. A woman could be almost as good as a man in the job.

And Ridgely... Ponder the progressive. Ridgely says, you're doing it very well. Very well. And it's one of those things that probably should film me with rage, and if it happened to be in real...

It has happened to be in real life. Cooking's very male-dominated. And it has filled me with rage, but somehow this I just think it's really quite sweet and funny, because I think they all mean very well. And it's very accurate. It's very accurate.

It is exactly how people like this are. And like I said, I don't think it's mean. No. It's just something that... They're saying something nice. It never occurred to them that... And I mean, from my book, it's probably very progressive.

I mean, as we discussed last week, you're still not really getting women's live much, are we? Yes. We haven't quite had the Suffragette movement in Anc-Morpuk, but considering it's the one man, one vote, and the one man is veterinary voting for himself,

I don't think we'll get the Suffragettes for a while. No, no. Probably a little whale for that. Of course. Imagine if Anc-Morpuk did have a Suffragette movement, it would totally be led by Sibyl. And I want Sibyl if I'm singing Sister Suffragette from Mary Poppins now.

Yeah, that'd be... That'd be pretty fucking cool. But with the dragon? Yeah, yeah, with dragon. Sorry, okay. That's totally no edge. Sibyl's not even in this fucking book. I liked how Susan couldn't get out of the circle,

but if I remember correctly, death is really in there as a matter of politeness. He's walked behind the wizard who summoned him before. Yeah. In the circle, but my apologies. And I think if Susan stopped and thought about it for a second, she could probably get out of the circle. I don't know, maybe not.

She's important to note. She's not death, I think, still. She's not death, but I think she's enough in between. Maybe. I don't think this... I think the circle's more about believing that you are stuck in the circle. But she didn't know she was till she walked into the wall.

Well, true. Okay, yeah, maybe I've thought about this in the wrong direction. Yeah. And I reckon that if she thought about it, she could get out of there. I think you're giving the little teenage ghost too much credit because you're projecting. I feel very attached.

It's my birthday. It's my birthday, Bronson. Am I wrong? Am I wrong? Can't just attack me like that on my birthday. Jail. Jail for... Jail for the co-host.

Jail for 1,000 years, I'm sorry. You kicked Johanna? I'm fine. You mocked Johanna? You mock her like the teenage ghost. You mock her like the football? God, okay, we are broken humans. We need to not be on the internet.

Oh, my gosh. So... Yeah, locations. There's not really any major locations to talk about, but I thought I'd mentioned a couple of the places we go. We've got the cavern, which is the Troll Club bar, which is named for a bar in Liverpool, I believe, that I think is like near Penny Lane.

I think the Beatles used to play that, didn't they? Yeah, it's got a link to the Beatles, and it's on Quarry Lane. Okay, yeah. Although I don't know if it's actually mentioned in the book, it's on the more book Mac, but it's on Quarry Lane. Okay. But that's like the Troll area.

Yeah, yeah. And the grits instead of the rits, which are just... It's quite nice. I'm quite sad though. Angels dining at the grits. Putting on the grits. Putting on the grits. If you're blue...

No, sorry. Right. Shall we take a minute before we go on to the little bits we liked? Yeah, all right. I'm right about the projecting, though. Oh, yeah, no, you're exactly right about the projecting. I'm going to play the birthday car. Right, where are we?

Who are we? What do you find funny? The little rat's footnote. And this is just one of those things where Pratchett is very good at making something so of a character and just can land a punchline with a thud. This is a footnote explaining about rat problems in the history of Angkor Pork and the offering money for tails.

And suddenly, lots of people were bringing rat tails, but there was still a rat problem and veterinary... Listen carefully while the problem was explained and solve the thing with one memorable phrase, which said a lot about him, about the folly of bounty offers, about the natural instinct of Angkor Porkians in any situation involving money. Tax the rat farms.

I think this actually happened, you know. Yeah, no, I think there is some... I think the colonial Americas or something like that. Well, it's happened... Oh, it's happened several times. It's called perverse incentives. So I'll let listeners look that one up. Apparently it happened with Cobras in Vietnam.

That's from a quick glance that Wikipedia paid. That sounds interesting. Yes. Yes, Betonari's ability to immediately work out what's going on and go... Yeah. Well, come on, guys. But just the way that sentence is structured with that thud of tax the rat farms at the end.

Yeah. That's a beautifully written joke, as it has got basis in history. And we'll get to more about what people do with rats in a later book. All right. That sounded much worse than it needed to. We'll talk about rats again. Okay. Wordplay.

One of it. Oh, that's me. Yeah. Pratchett, I thought, as well as the puns, Pratchett just had a lot of fun with wordplay in this section, I think. Because, God, it's just a book full of him making little jokes, isn't it? Because he's, like, chock full of references and full of, like, etymology and puns and everything. Yeah. But it's just a very rapid fire Pratchett book.

But, yes, when Rick Kelly is talking skeletons... Skellington's. Skellington's says there's an animate anatomy. Oh, yes. I say, what's one of those? I was like, well, you know, it's the skeleton because you've got anatomy, which is whatever. I was like, I guess that kind of makes logical sense. But what does it actually mean?

And it is, anatomy comes from the Greek ana, which is up, and tomia, which is cutting. Which isn't as fun. I was really hoping to discover that it did just mean lack of skeleton or something. And then he was talking about killing, death, killing death would be a sidey side rather than suicide. Sidium coming from the Latin. Side coming from the Latin. Sidium, slaughter or killing.

So I think that's inaccurate because death does not kill. He is a, as we've talked about before, he is a psychopomp. So I think it would be perhaps a pompous side. Which is an excellent word. Yeah, pompos being a conductor again from the Greek. I enjoy that. And then we've got glod. No, yeah, glod.

Glod talking about gold. Yes, there we go. I got it. He said, gold should just sit there being oraceous. So I was like, oh, it's another good word. Another good word. And asius is resembling having the nature of back to Latin. And ore is metal.

Or obviously, I just kept looking up these words to see if they were real. Or if they even made etymological sense and so far, zero for zero. And then, yeah, the last one in my little list of things I looked up all in one go was music, which does, thank God, come from the, come from the Greek word muso, which means muse or music, techni, is techni being art, art of the music, music, which is quite cool. I think you looked at muses as well. Actually, didn't you under different aspect?

Yeah, I had a look at, Buddy thinks that Susan might be his muse. And she's obviously heard of them, heard of the muses as written about by the ancient Athenophobians or standings for the ancient Greeks. And she's sort of like, I think that, yeah, there's eight of them led by cantaloupe. Yeah. In actual Greek mythology, there was nine. Obviously, it becomes eight here because eight is quite an important number. And calliope, I believe is.

I believe it's pronounced calliope. Fine. Sorry, that's a Magnaz archives joke shit. Okay. No, that's fine. I'm just going to stop. Oh, that's my recommendation of the week. I binge, binge the Magnaz archives and it's fucking broken me.

So everyone don't do that too. I feel like I'm just 16 hours. I fell in love with the main character. Like I'm properly in love with him. And I'm very upset about it. I, you said maybe don't listen to it for me because I'm scared of spiders. There are too many spiders in it for you. And no, there's not.

No, there's enough. It's got content warnings on the episodes, but. Yeah. I might give it a go and see how I feel. Yeah, give it a go. It's good. I love this guy. Oh my God, I love him.

It's the first real crush on a fictional character I remember ever having. It's like an audio only one as well. I guess that's probably more likely. You know me and actual people. So like. I'm doing some research at the moment of sort of podcasts, like serialized dramas and radio plays and things for something I'm hopefully working on.

Very excited about the thing I'm hopefully working on. You're being very vague about it, but I feel like maybe we've talked about it already, but did we just talk about it in person? We talked about it in person. Okay. Okay. Okay. Cool.

But keep vague posting them. I'm keeping vague because I don't want to tell people I'm doing it and then not do it. Sure. We don't ever do that. Oh yeah. No, let's not discuss the follow up section. And then yeah, general, general references. General references.

Starting with some of the fun Blues Brothers moments. The most obvious one being as they're stealing the piano and I'm saying he can't stop us. We're on a mission from blood. Yes. Which I like that one. I got that one. Yeah.

I watched that. You made me watch that. I still that. We're on our mission from God. Like I've got to stop trying to do the Danakro accent. But I like the self awareness of he says that and then they keep walking. He's like, why did I just say that? That makes no sense.

I like when they're self aware of the silly things they're doing. Yes. And then you've got the sort of the moment of the band staying in the hospital while the musician's guilt wait outside. Gloves digs is a sort of reference to a moment from the film as well. And when Blurt selling Blurt. Yeah. Is selling his guitars.

He offers to throw the space between the strings in for free. Which is Ray the music shop owner says he'll sell the keyboard and throw in the black notes for free. Ah, very good. I didn't catch that. I caught that one because the moment with Ray Charles is my favorite song in the whole film. Yeah, I think I was kind of paying half attention and then started paying attention again when Ray Charles started. Yeah.

Look, my sister and I worked very hard to learn the dance routine to shake your tail further and have done it almost every time. Oh, oh, oh, well, I want to see that. Anyway, yeah, I'm not going to do it while I'm on the sofa and wearing this dress. All right. That's yeah, that seems sensible. Actually, another day. I am not doing the twist in this dress for water shed.

I'll listen to what the water shed is now if they listen to our bonus episode. Fuck yeah. And then song titles and those moments. When Cumbling Michael is reporting to Vesenari, he mentions that the band were playing, singing something about great fiery balls. Yeah, something like that. And then the piano exploded. It's gracious.

Yeah, great. Arls of fire. But what's his name? Jerry Lee Lewis did used to actually set fire to his piano while performing that song. Really? Yeah. Using like Lysa Fluid or Salinas or something. Yeah, good grief.

So that's a fun extra reference. Some of the other songs they sing, if you don't tread on my new blue boots. That's not very obvious. Can I get that one? Don't step on my new sweatshirts. Good gracious, Miss Polly. I like how he's not really trying to be subtle with these. Oh, no.

Stowe Hellet Lace, something called Chantilly Lace. And that's why they're asking why Buddy is saying hello, baby. Because that's the opening to Chantilly Lace. It's this big, dramatic hello, baby. And I think they're any infants allowed in the drama. My favorite one, just because it is a recurring joke, is the song Pathway to Paradise.

Yeah. Being a reference to Stowe Way to Heaven. But it's specifically Blurt in the music shop saying, no one is allowed to sing that song. And it's very common in music shops to have like no stairway signs because people will come in and try guitars. There's like a lot that will have like no stairway, no smoke on the water. I was going to say like, yeah, my music teacher used to get very annoyed

if anyone came in and played smoke on the water on any instrument. Yeah. It was stairway to Heaven, smoke on water. And I think the opening to Sweet Child of Mine are the ones that music, people who work in music shops, hate and usually have signs up saying, please fucking don't. Yes. So yeah, so those are all my favorite little references in this section.

Good. I liked them all. Yes. Go on to the bigger stuff. And I want to talk about all the parallels with this and other Discworld books, which is you've written down about some parallels between Reaper Man as well, haven't you? Yeah. No, I just, I liked the Field of Wheat.

Yeah. That was one of the bigger ones I mentioned. Yeah. I noted even. Yes. Because that was one of my favorite moments in Reaper Man, just imagining the gold on the black and the blue and the, yeah, my, like, my favorite color scheme-y thing and just because I'm fucking touching and,

oh my God, Reaper Man is such a good bird. God, the hell. Since the moment at the end of Reaper Man goes back to his domain and he creates beautiful fields of wheat across the different distance surrounding it. Yeah. And Susan mentioning that it looks like he'd actually put quite a lot of effort into that, as opposed to some of the stuff he's just kind of fudged in the rest of the garden. And yeah.

And the fact that when she goes back to the time of Mort, the wheat isn't there. Yeah. It's that nice delineating. Oh, yeah, yeah. And the only other one I noted was that Richter comes back up as a, because Richter was mentioned as the guy who made the seismology, but it's for Tham, for magic. Ah, yeah, yeah.

The, you know, the little- The Thameter. Yeah. But anyway, he's mentioned here as a numbers guy, so. Ah, cool. That's nice. Yeah. I assume you, I assume you-

Oh, sorry, what? It was the elephant penalty spitting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Was that in reefer man? I'm pretty sure that was in reefer man. Yeah. I think it was, wasn't it?

Yeah. Because it started spitting them everywhere. Yeah. Because there was too much life force around. Yeah. That's it. Life force. Yeah.

Yes. Good. Well done, us. We got that. Numbers, Richter. Yeah. So, a few more things I noticed and something I like about this book. I've talked before when we covered some of the other books,

getting into the mid-stage disc world, that there are a few that kind of feel like, feel like re-dos of the earlier books. Men at Arms, you can see a lot of parallels. It was like, okay, I did Guards, Guards. Now, let's do it better. Slight hints of it, which is broad, although not quite as much. What were the other ones?

I noticed small gods as a kind of much better version of pyramids. I think we talked about it every episode. Yeah. Yeah. I think I've found a lot of these. What I like about this is I think it's one of the first ones. I mean, lots of ladies to a certain extent, but this is one of the ones where he's gone,

okay, I have all of this material from other books. Yeah. How can I use it to make this book? He's not taken that material and then tried to do it again, but better. He's just really, really led it informed this book, and I think it's beautifully done. Yeah, it is, yeah.

And the relationships to Mort, you have really early on in this section where Susan's kind of pressing about what to do because she's realized things have gone wrong and she debates going to Albert and describes not to. And that parallel to Mort and not knowing what to do about the fact he saved Princess Kelly. Yeah.

In fact, the whole plot point of Mort saving Princess Kelly and Susan doesn't save Buddy, the music saves him, but she was going to. Yes. So she kind of almost feels as responsible as if she did. Yeah. But we do have to get a different plot instead. And then you've got the flashback,

which we've talked about quite a lot already, to Mort, where to bring out Mort. That's a special guest. We've got a special guest of a previous book. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. This is when Death has the dual with Mort. He says, you don't know how sorry this makes me.

Then looks surprised and starts to laugh and turns over his lifetimer. Yeah. In fact, Death gave him a surprise look for several seconds, then started to laugh. Blah, blah, blah. He saw the Mort try to focus. He saw the last grain of sand skid down the glossy surface,

teeter on the edge and then drop tumbling in slow motion towards the button. The light in Death's eyes flared until it fills Mort's vision and the sound of his laughter rattled the universe and then Death turned the hourglass over. And that's in cuts and goes to the Great Hall of Stolatt and Mort on Isabel's wedding. Yes.

Yeah. And then we see it from the slightly different perspective in this of Death says, you don't know how sorry this makes me. Mort says, I might. Death looked up and looked straight at Susan. Look down at Mort, at Isabel, back at Susan, down at Mort, laughed. Is that my turn? And turned the hourglass over.

Informed his decision. Yeah. Retcon. That's a retcon, that is. That is absolutely a retcon. I don't think that Pratchett had this in mind to wait any stretch of the imagination when he put that in Mort. He might have thought, well, I've left that.

I can come back and use it if I need to. Yeah. I mean, he left ambiguous as to why Death made that decision. Yeah. He kept his toys in the sandbox. He didn't throw them away. Yeah. But to have that flashback and then you go to speaking

about human emotion and this to Susan, it says, as I said earlier, this is a different death. He might remember Bill Dore, but he hasn't been Bill Dore yet. Yeah. Yeah. And it was the experiencing it that made it important, wasn't it? Yeah. He says something along the lines of, OK, fine, I have emotions,

but I can give them up anytime I want. Yeah. He's very angry still, isn't he? I think it was a very good callback to earlier Death, as in he wrote him as he did then. Yes. He managed to write it as a very different death to the death. He didn't give him the soft edges, yeah.

Yeah. And then you have another later moment as Susan's walking through the lifetimers and she's trying to work out what's going on and find Impp's book and his lifetimer. And she's thinking about her father being a bit wet, soppy and dull. And he never fought anyone. He just travelled and tried to get people to talk to each other.

And thinking of herself was so different when her father, when she is so like her father was at the same age when he was being death's apprentice. Yeah. Yes. Pratch is writing a teenage very well, which is to say unbearable. Yeah. He's writing a teenager very well, but he's writing his own character.

He's writing his own characters very well. What a surprise. He's using what he's written already in such a clever way. Yeah. And I think it adds so much to this book too, because the first time I read this, I hadn't read Mort, I hadn't read Reconman. Oh, yeah, of course, yeah.

Yeah. And so having that reading really informed by it, it's really lovely to see how much Susan is repeating the mistakes of her father while not realising how her father became the man he became. Yeah. And on a much lower key way, her mother. And yeah.

By, like, accidentally slagging off her mum and then going, all right, a bit of a gossy dress, maybe. Bit of lace. All right, a little bit. No swooning, though. No swooning. No swooning, no. No fluffy dressing gowns, I think.

But then, so, the other sort of parallels to previous books that I really enjoy about this is the thing I've talked about before, one of the other reasons is my favourites, the same reason I love moving pictures. And you've got the really direct moving pictures comparison of Dibbler's doing the thing again. He's seen the new thing, and so he's getting into it and trying to make a profit.

Yeah. But it's the speculative fiction aspect, or the, to use the technical term, what happens when thing happens? Oh, thank you, yes. If you could please cut down on the jog. Something I really like when Pratchett does this is he goes, what if this thing comes to the disc world?

What if this very human thing? And it means you get the fun, de-familiarisation thing we've talked about where we see something we know very well through completely fresh eyes. Well, I'll remember it. I double-checked it, looked it up and put it in my next before the show.

Excellent. It's determined to have a conversation about it where I could remember the fucking words. Oh, and I brought it up anyway, I'm sorry. I was going to sound so clever. Well done you, well done you though. But he does it really well. It's really fun because you've got this big world to play

and it means you, and he does it differently every time, you know, moving pictures comes about because of some weird religion and then the dungeon dimensions happen. The music happens and it's very supernatural and you don't know where it's going to go and we'll get... And Dibble never learns his lesson.

And Dibble never learns his lesson and we'll get more, not every book, but there are definitely a few more books in the series and a lot of them are ones I count as favourites where something reaches the disc world. Yeah. The book we named our podcast after is probably my favourite example of it.

Yeah, yeah. He's a peak practic by then. And then just a little side note of, because I was kind of caught up in the moving pictures callback, I remember reading, especially in Mark's book, I think Pratchett talking about how his characters like Victor and Tepik,

he kind of thought of as all played by the same actor. He started to move away from that by this point. But there's something of Victor in Buddy. Do you think? I think he's... I mean, Buddy's quite a passive character at this point. He's been so overtaken by the music. I mean, he's nothing now, isn't he?

Yeah, he's kind of nothing now. I think he's a lot less personality than Tepik and... Than Tepik, maybe. I think the similar kind of feeling of it could be the same actor. I don't mean he's a really similar character, but I mean, he's come to do this thing. He's been completely swept up in it.

Yeah, no, yeah, no. He's the young, good-looking man who is... Yeah, yeah, no, you're right, yeah. He's just so zombified by this point. Yeah. But yeah, definitely the first section, possibly slightly less at this point, just because he's got no personality.

Yeah, I think as we get into this. But then if we go, yeah, later on. Yeah. So, yeah, so that was my accidental essay on Pratchett. I think Terry Pratchett might be quite a good writer, you know? Oh, again. Do we still think that? All right, well, just as well.

We've only got a few books left. That's a very good essay, though. Lots of points there I didn't pick up on. I just like the wheat field and the elephant thing. The wheat field was the first thing I wrote down, and then I went back to look for more things. Smart, yeah. Oh, with the fucking slap.

Oh, yeah. I had to hit myself there for illustration, which did nothing for anybody. Especially the audio podcast. Yeah, no, I just made an annoying thud. Yeah, sorry. Quite interesting. Yeah, the hereditary.

Because I was reading the first bit with good foreshadowing, and I was like, I can't imagine death ever hitting a child. Not a child child. I assume it was kind of a child. But like, what scene have I forgotten here? I know that's a... She has inherited the mark of death slap. Which is very cool, actually, isn't it?

That's a really cool... What do you call it? Morphic resonance? Yeah. Yeah. Which I looked up, by the way, the term, and it's a pseudoscience-y thing. But it wasn't interesting enough for me to go down the rabbit hole,

but it is a thing. Yeah, that's not going to pseudoscience. It's a thing that people look at, yeah. Let's not go into pseudoscience. To the silly place. Let's stop making Monty Python references at the same time. It is a silly habit. Let's talk about fame.

I want to live forever, but I don't want to be famous, really. Do you? I don't know. And I intentionally tried not to think about this too much when I saw it in the plan, because I thought my brain would have worked out for me the time we got here. Did it?

No. Oh, cool, yeah. We had that turn out. We kind of addressed this a bit. Back when we did our existential crisis Q&A bonus episode, Oh, with the legacy thing. We talked about the legacy thing. I don't think I want to be famous, famous.

I don't want to do the paparazzi, and I'm just trying to walk along the beach with my discreetly pregnant Swedish model girlfriend. Sorry, that was a black book's reference. I do not want to be famous for the sake of being famous. Like, I do not want to be famous. I would not be upset if I became well-known because I was good at something.

I think there is a level I would be comfortable with, and I think it's probably a lot lower than yours. Definitely because you're better with people. I really like attention. I really like praise. I am really vulnerable to flattery and praise. But I also have big chunks of time where I need to be invisible pretty much,

and I can dress a certain way and act a certain way to make that more so. I never ever want to be recognizable on the street by a lot of people famous. I would never want that. I could cope, I guess, with being slightly a public figure, like a slightly well-known author. Even then, the pressure of tweeting anything.

Have you listened to the latest you're wrong about, about cancel culture? I have. Oh, it's such a good episode. That's a big recommendation of the week. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, Michael Hobbs and Sarah Marshall level well-known, I would find difficult, I think, because the pressure of not being able to shitpost

in a certain direction, I don't know. I'm not knowing what the direction is. I don't mind. Obviously, we are not famous on the basis of this podcast, but we do have a fair few many listeners, and we love our listeners to bits, throwing that in there. I don't mind that there are people who are more aware of me than I am of them.

No, it's weird to think about sometimes, but I don't mind it. Yeah, saying that, obviously, our listeners are lovely, and any of them that even mildly get in contact if we normally end up fully aware of. Yeah, yeah. As aware of who we are of anything. I could cope with, say, having a larger Twitter following. I'm kind of with you on like,

I wouldn't massively like the idea of lots of people being able to recognize me in the stream. Yeah. I wouldn't mind if I was mildly recognizable. Yeah. Would it bother you if you were well known for something you weren't that proud of, like if you accidentally became an influencer?

I don't know. It wouldn't bother me, but I'd want to sort of go, oh, okay, you're aware of me because of this. In that case, by the way, just so you know. Well, here's my soundcloud. Anyway, here's my soundcloud. I can't imagine me accidentally becoming an influencer. No, no, I was trying to think of a better example than that.

I mean, actually, you know what? Fuck it. Let's try it. My new shorts from Snag Tights came, and it turns out they're a godsend. So listeners, buy the Chubrub shorts from Snag Tights and tell them I sent you, and let's see if I can become an influencer and get free shit.

They're not very expensive, actually. Yeah, I was like, this is genuinely not an ad. Like, I could do some types that don't fuck. Types that don't fuck. Types that don't fuck up very quickly. I just stopped from the sentence. That's fine. I haven't tried the actual tights.

I've just tried the shorts so far, but they are a godsend. Apologies for listeners of a delicate disposition, but as a woman in possession of what some might call thunder thighs. As a woman in possession of legs. As a woman in possession of hefty legs. I've got strong, sturdy, peasant legs. The anti-Chubrub shorts are literally a fucking godsend,

and they're probably quite good if you're less hefty than me as well. I'd like to point out this is not me, like, bragging myself. I think I'm marvelously wonderful exactly as I am. I just happen to also, I would be very good at working in a field. Legs that touch each other. Good God, I've got legs that touch each other. I'll never be famous. Yeah, these shorts are really good.

Get them. And they're only like six foot each. And the other aspect of the fame thing or this area of it is something you don't seem to have as much as me, but I think you do still have a bit which has stayed right. I did a lot of theatre as a kid and like a teenager, and that was always fine. But then as an older teenager and young adult,

did some open mics and things and singing, and I hated it. I did it because I really liked rehearsing with my friends, you being one of them. But whenever it came to performing live, I was shaking. I was visibly shaking. Even when I was very drunk, I was just clearly extremely unhappy.

And I can't get over it and I don't know why. Yeah, I have a certain amount of it. I mean, I love performing. I miss performing again. I really like attention. But I have always suffered with really bad stage fright and I've found it gets best. I mean, with it, it gets easier the more you do something.

So like with acting, I learned to deal with it quite well because it was no matter how nervous I was, the character wasn't as they were. So it was very easy to get. I would still have the stage fright, but it wouldn't affect me once I was on stage because I'd be in character. I used to get it quite badly with poetry

and I just did so many open mics that it went. It helps like I had a short poem I always open sets with and it would normally get a laugh from people. And once you feel like the audience is on your side, that really helps get rid of a lot of it. I do still get it when I sing. Yeah. That's probably where I get the worst stage fright.

I think that's the... Yeah, I agree. It's probably in the same order for me. I think you're just better at coping with it than me. Theatre is fine. I can deal with theatre. I've read out poetry before as well and like I'm... But I can do it.

And then, yeah, singing. I just fucked. I can't. I can do it. I've done musical theatre and that was okay. I think there's a difference between singing on stage, like even if you're doing a solo as part of a play, again, it's some of it's that...

Yeah, you're being someone else, yeah. No, not judging me. You're judging. But performing as a singer when it is sort of... I mean, it was... When we first performed, we had like musicians we performed where there was never just us. It's a weird combination of vulnerability.

And I think part of it is obviously it affects how you sing. If you're nervous and you're short of breath. Yeah. Yeah. And I was bad at it because of that. I've always been much better singer. Everyone says this, obviously, but much better singer on my own or with friends on the sofa, yeah.

Yeah. And that was something I think that why I struggled to get over the stage right with singing is because I would panic that I wouldn't... I would be nervous and then I would panic that I will sound bad because I'm nervous and it wraps itself up into a horrible ball. Saying that, I do miss performing and I would quite happen. You do it again. Yeah.

Yeah. I wouldn't mind being possessed by the spirit of music while I was doing it. Like that might make a difference. That would really come in handy. Like in my dreams, I am obviously an incredible rock star. Obviously. Like I know that potential is very much within me. It's not.

The dancing is bad. Do you need to dance to be a rock star? Well, you know, I mean, I'm not very good at moving on stage, which is fun. Well, no. So like if you're doing like an open mic night and you're standing at a microphone very earnestly singing. I think that's part of the issue though, is it? I'm not very good at moving either.

Yeah. Like I'm better with it, with poetry and theatre now from doing it. And also I had an actor friend who I worked with quite a lot. He's a very good actor. He did Accidental Satanist for us, AJ Dean. Hi. Hi, if you're listening. By the way, you can sometimes listen.

Who pointed out to me something I hadn't realised, especially when I was nervous and on stage. I do this with my arms. Because I just forget how to do it. You do the Alexa from Schitt's Creek. You did it. If it was before I'd seen Schitt's Creek, so it was just T-Rex. It's very cute.

But I would just, I just would forget how to have arms. It's like, I know how to walk in a straight line, but if someone tells me I need to walk across the stage in a straight line, like how do you have legs and arms? Walking, walking. I've done this before. I'm sure I've done this before. Yeah.

With arms, it's terrible. Behind my back looks like a choir girl, lost in front of me as is my instinct. It's obviously very defensive and all right. Pockets. If I ever had pockets, I would put my hands in them when I was performing, which I'm sure isn't great, but it's better than all of my alternatives.

Honestly, with poetry, I would pass beyond really needing to have my poems up on stage with me. But I would have them because I'd have it in my hand. Because it gave me something to gesture with. Yeah. I mean, it was part of it as a security blanket as well, but it helped to be holding something. So I'd be holding that in one hand.

I'd maybe have a drink in the other, and I'd just sort of gesticulate wildly with both, and it would work. All right. Good to know if I ever have to perform again, hold things. Yeah. Doesn't matter what, just objects or coffee in the book. T-Rex.

Or T-Rex arms. You're saying that was a success. No. Okay, right. AJ pointed out to me and then was very good about pointing it out every time I fucking did it until I stopped out of sheer embarrassment. Well, it worked. But yeah.

It was necessary. I quite like the T-Rex arms. Was it? Was it? I like the T-Rex arms. Yeah, but imagine watching. It's not traditional, but maybe you're breaking out of the mould. I was just trying to play a regular human person.

Hi, I'm Jackie Daytona, regular human bartender. Still one of my favourite tops. Thank you. Okay, right. We've gone wildly off topic. We were talking about a book. Yeah, with this part of the book, they're performing. This is the topic.

Okay. The entire topic was a tangent, I'm afraid. Excellent. We got that. Have you got anything else on this topic of fame you'd like to say? No, not really. Okay, cool. Do you want to see a reference video for me?

Yeah. I've got a birthday finial. Yeah. So when the little music crafting machine is left around and about, a little terrier comes up and looks into it. And then I think says he feels very silly. And goes away again. Yeah.

And I seem, said terrier, is meant to be gaspowed. But also said terrier, I think is meant to be the little dog in his master's voice, which is the painting of the little dog looking into a gramophone, which was painted by Francis Baraud in 1898. And then acquired by the Gramophone Company in 1899. And then that led to the Gramophone Company being informally known as HMV, his master's voice. Which then became a chain of... HMV, yeah.

And I think might have, I'm not, there's a lot of corporate restructuring. I'm not really sure if it stayed as part of the record label. I don't think it is now. But anyway, the first shop opened in London in 1921. That's a big high street name, certainly in England. I don't know if HMV is a big name anywhere else. But most of the shops, I think, in our clothes, but it's still taking you along in some places.

Yeah, it's a big English high street CD and records and music and things. Shop and the logo is still the little dog appearing into the gramophone. Yeah. Did HMV buy out MVC? Yes. It sounds like I'm trying to make a joke. HMV did buy out MVC. And I miss Andy's records.

That was a very good little music shop I used to have. I just miss all of it. I miss going into MVC as well and just looking through the posters there and then the £1 CD bin. This is something, it doesn't just happen in the UK, but it is something very much of my teenage years that you would go for a walk around town with your mates and you would go to HMV or this other one, MVC,

which was a chain of the same nature. And there would be a big thing of posters and you could look through the posters. And you'd never buy a poster. I can still feel it. It's one of those very sense memories, isn't it? I can feel and hear that. Yeah, I would never buy a poster and pay 10 for a poster.

Printed out. We would go to Woolworth's and we'd buy... I look like I've made of money. Oh yeah, you go to Woolworth's, yes, and get the ones rolled off in the slightly inferior but... Oh, do you know what I really miss? Some vegetarians pick and mix. Everything's made of gelatin.

Yeah. Which, before we round out the episode, something I meant to ask last one we've got, can you remember what the first ever CD or cassette you bought was? Yeah. Well, first cassette I had was a now one. I can't remember it's out. It might be now 48.

I definitely had that one cassette, so it's probably that one. And then the first CD I had was a Britney Spears one. So my first cassette was Fat Lez Vindaloo. Great. I'm not sure why as a child I'm really... Bit less basic than me. This was... Yeah.

Not in UK, this was... This was like some weird English football song called Vindaloo. Pretty demonstrating my open mic credentials here. Dave Bedeal or someone did it? Yeah. Can I introduce you please to a lump of cheddar cheese? Knit one pearl one. Oh my God.

What is that? What was that song? It was... I'll link to it in the show notes. Probably football's fault. It was something to do with football. I don't know. We used to watch Top of the Pops as a family

and I was very caught up with the excitement of it, so I bought it on cassette. That's adorable and I love it. First CD, can you remember? Yes, it was a single. It was Busted Year 3000. Oh, fuck yes. Yes, correct.

Which is Busted Jimmy Fancy Mouse. Charlie. I did too. Fancy Mouse at first and then moved on to Charlie. No, it's Charlie. It was the brooding in the eyebrows. Yeah, so I wasn't into eyebrows until I was...

No, I was going to eyebrows. I also handsome Duncan from Blue. Oh yeah, Duncan from Blue. That might have been what brought me around to the idea of eyebrows. Right, again, we have not stayed... It's kind of... You can see the teen to teen slight transition

when you go from the very young looking boys, like the Gareth Gates and the... Okay, I never fancy Gareth Gates. I did. Judging you. That's fair. I'm judging me too. I was not a cool child, surprise listeners.

Joanna was a very cool listening to The Clash and Bindaloo. Well, yeah, I mean, I was listening to... You've shattered my illusion of you. I was listening to my dad's music. I was listening to The Clash and to a song by The Who that I definitely know is called Barbara O'Reilly and not Teenage Bracelet. Absolutely.

The scene in House with Barbara O'Reilly is one of my favourite parts of that show. It's a really good song for a TV show, Needle Drop. What are we talking about? We're trying to finish the fucking episode. Oh, right, yeah, sure. Because I've got going... I've got you not coming over in three hours.

I've still got to finish making dinner. I'm just going to hang up and go over there. I need to iron my napkins. Sorry, I got shower and change. No, you don't. You're not going to bother ironing your skirt. You can't iron the napkins. I'm going to iron the skirt as well.

All right, well, you said you might not bother. Okay, if I don't bother you... What skirt is it? How fancy am I going here? I've got a few dresses I could wear. You don't have to go over fancy. I'm just dressing up because I'm extra. I haven't been to anything in so long.

Okay. I want to fit the tone is what I'm trying to say. I'm going 50, so it's like a dark blue, 50 star top with lemons on it and then a yellow circle skirt with dark blue peti cape. Okay, cool, cool. Okay. That's cool.

Right, can I finish the episode? Probably just going to wear a little black dress. It was always going to happen. Yes, no, you may. Yes, please. This is not normally me, the one trying to get us out of the episode. I'm very tired and in a very good mood,

which is an interesting combination. It's why you're the one who's got to edit this. Oh, yeah, fuck. Am I going to have time for that? All right, well, yeah, I'll get this to you at midnight on Sunday again then. You mean hoist by your own what's it? Right, thank you.

Negative space where my long claw should be. I'm seeing, let me do the outro, please. My crops are dying. My belly is my raven. She's very sick. Oh, oh. Okay, right, fuck. I'm crying.

I'm sorry. I'm more sick. I'm going to have to like wash all my makeup off and redo it before we come over. Okay, right. Thank you very much for listening to this episode of The Two Show Me Key Fret. We'll be back next Monday with part three

of our discussion of soul music. In the meantime, things. Literally, I don't know. I haven't finished the work yet. Oh, cool. Stuff, things, events, music, souls. In the meantime, however, you can follow us on Instagram at The Two Show Me Key Fret,

on Twitter at Make Key Fret Pod, on Facebook at The Two Show Me Key Fret. You can join our subreddit community, r-t-t-s-m-y-f. You can email us your thoughts, queries, castles, snacks at The Two Show Me Key Fret pod at gmail.com. You can support us financially on Patreon

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That's going to kill us in the algorithms. And in the meantime, dear listeners, don't let us detain you. I'm very sorry for all of this and happy birthday.