The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - 6: The Long Earth Part 2 (Potato Thoughts)

Episode Date: July 13, 2025

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan and Francine Carrel have emerged from Discworld and are now exploring the worlds of speculative fiction. This week, The Long Earth Part 2!  Elephants! Elves! Evolution! Extinction? Find us on the internet:BlueSky: @makeyefretpod.bsky.socialInstagram: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretFacebook: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: [e-mail]: www.patreon.com/thetruthshallmakeyefretDiscord: https://discord.gg/29wMyuDHGP Want to follow your hosts and their internet doings? Follow Joanna on BlueSky @2hatsjo and follow Francine @francibambi Things we blathered on about:The Album - Only You Can Save Mankind Soundtrack Tracklements - Oxford Reference  I Made a Massive 14,000 Page Book - YouTubeArchaeoacoustics - Wikipedia history of the entire world, i guess - YouTube Is there a similar word to 'twain' but meaning 'three' instead of 'two'? - English Language & Usage Stack Exchange    Music: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.com 

I built a new support system for my tomatoes today. Because they're quite... Like psychological or? Yeah, yeah, psychological. Has there been any... I feel like I should have looked this up before we did it. Any Discworld news we should fill people in on? I don't think I've seen any major Discworld news.

I know. I'm not on social media as much as I was. That's the only thing. I've been very not on social media recently, and it's been really fucking nice. I quite like it. I don't need to go back on so I can remind people that I exist and write books and they should buy them. Hey listeners, I exist, I write books, you should buy them. You one coming later this year? What's that one called, Joanna?

American teen dramas from Sunnydale to Riverdale. I actually just got the type set proofs, which is very exciting, except now I need to commit a day to reading and looking for mistakes and typos and things. I'm not looking forward to that. I've clicked on a piece of Discworld news under the tab News on Google. This is the level of my research today. Somebody has put together a rotating book wheel of Discworld. Oh, I saw that book wheel of Discworld. Ooh, I saw that a couple of weeks ago. It's very cool.

That is extremely cool. So I'll link to that in the show notes. And now... Now we've done our job. Now we've done news. Look at us. And now for the weather. And now for...

It's hot. Do you ever listen to Welcome to Night Vale? No, I didn't. Now for the weather is like a link to the random music section they put in this very surreal radio program. And now the weather. At some point I will get to Welcome to Night Vale, but I have a feeling it's going to be a bit like Magnus' archives and swallows my life up a bit. Yes. Magnus Archives and swallows my life up a bit. Yes, it's not quite as...

It wasn't quite as absorbing as Magnus Archives for me. I think that's honestly partly because of the music section. It's in the middle of the episode and I go to just a random song chosen by Iseam the Show writers and sometimes it's really good but it takes me out of the immersion. Yeah, I get what you mean. It doesn't seem to for a lot of people, but you can like go on YouTube and get non-music versions, but I feel like the creators did not intend, in fact, I know the creators didn't

intend for that. I've said so on Twitter a long time ago. Yeah, if I am going to listen to something, I'll listen to it the way the creators intended. It sounded slightly religious, doesn't it? Yeah, it does sound a little bit. Let's not start a cult, remember. Definitely not a cult. Well, you saw what happened to that one cult. Yeah. Good grief.

That was definitely a thing that happened to a cult. Elves. Should be specific, we are talking about events in the book, The Long Earth, and not some horrific news thing we've decided to make jokes about. Yes, yeah. As far as I know, touch wood, touch iron, elves have not yet infiltrated any religious cults on Datum Earth. No. Round world, whatever we're calling it. I suppose we call it Datum today.

Today we call it Datum, not round world. Although it is also a world that's round, but that doesn't really differentiate it from the other Earths as far as the long Earths concerned. Yeah, no precisely. All right. Speaking of the long Earths, do you want to make a podcast? Let's just make a podcast, yeah. Clearly raring to go. Hello and welcome to the True Show Make You Fret, a podcast in which we were reading and recapping every bit from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series and now we're doing all sorts of stuff. I'm Joanna Hagan. I'm Francine Carroll. And this is part two of The Long Earth, chapter 26, up through to the end.

And what a ride it was, goodness me. I'd forgotten just how good that pacing was. Thrilling conclusion indeed. Yeah. You don't get cliffhangers like that on Discworld, do you? Well, you get one. Yeah. But yeah, it's generally not. Yeah, there's one literal cliffhanger and then after that, it's all very contained. It's fun reading like a series. I know Discord is a series, but this is like a serial. Yeah, this is like you need to read the next book to get the rest of the story one. Yes, which is fun. No spoilers before we crack on. We're a spoiler-like podcast. Obviously, heavy spoilers for the long Earth, but we'll try and avoid spoiling major stuff from the future books in this series. We probably won't be spoiling any major Discworld stuff today either, and that includes The Shepherd's Crown, so that you, dear listeners, can safely be on this journey with us.

Safe as long as we don't accidentally fall into the gap. Yeah, keep an eye out for that. Follow up, couple of bits to follow up on. Yeah. Claudia, thank you for email, sending us the link to the Long Earth fan wiki, which I haven't clicked on yet because I thought if I did... No, Francine, I know what will happen. This is the

history of espionage Wikipedia page all over again. Listeners, Joanna just saw me reach for my mouse to open a tab and open Gmail. Very well. You're not wrong. We'll do a bonus episode on all that then, Charlie. Yes, you can have the link when we've finished after dessert. Fair enough. Oh, and thank you for more Stephen Baxter recommendations, Flood and Arc, which I might give a go. Do you know I've had those on MetaReadlist for a very long time. Should we have a little Stephen Baxter, maybe a little bonus episode coming to you, dear listeners. Ellen sent us a nice message on Patreon. One of the things Ella mentioned is that there's an there wasn't only you can save mankind musical. In like earlier prints of the long Earth, there

was a link to the website for it, which is an incredible vintage looking website that still has apparently available the only you can saveankind soundtrack. So I'll put that on the show notes dear listeners, because we all love a website from 20 years ago. I adore them. Yeah. Delightful. And Son of Ogle, whose name I'm probably still not saying right from Discord, linked to the Oxford reference for tracklements. According to Oxford, this is specifically from an A to Z of food and Drink by John Aito, who's interesting bloke among other things worked on one of the revisions for Brewers

Phrase and Fable and has worked on some other Brewers Guides. All right, so probably time to get that book. Yeah, I'm going to get a copy of this at some point. Tracheolments is a cover term for a wide range of condiments that go with meat, mustards, relishes, pickled green gauges, apple jellies, spiked with rosemary, rowan jellies, infused with port wine, the sort of items, in fact, that in the latter part of the 20th century became widely available in small nostalgic looking jars at large prices. The English food writer Dorothy Hartley claimed to have invented the word or rather its culinary application.

I forgot to check, but I think Dorothy Hartley is the one who wrote the English food book that is mentioned in the first half of the math. I expect so. Perhaps it's generally pretty good on this sourcing. According to her, she was reviving an old term for impedimenta in general. However, no trace of such a word has been found before she first used it in the early 50s. Ooh, a mystery. And its origins remain a mystery. All right. Okay.

And its origins remain a mystery. All right. Okay. One possibility is that Latin tragamata or Greek tragamata, not saying those right, spices, which also means spices or condiments, may have been present at its birth. Such a wonderfully written paragraph alone that I need to get a copy of the A to Z of Food and Drink. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

I love this. Very engaging. And also, we've now got a Scooby Doo style mystery. Yep, let's say... Pulling masks off words until we find trackament. Yes, which is definitely a normal thing that I will, you know, possibly engage in and not an odd way to spend my time at all. I've not yet recovered from the time I tried to find the ultimate origin of the iron enough to

make a nail, etc. Yeah. recovered from the time I tried to find the ultimate origin of the iron enough to make a nail etc. However, always a new breakdown. Do you remember when for a rabbit hole I looked at the origins of the Puss in Boots story and went into a whole weird side conspiracy theory about the Princess and the P and Hans Christian Andersen? Yeah, I hugely enjoyed it. More of that. Yeah, loved doing that. Haven't done one of those for a while I might crack one of those out again. Anyway, um, I just ripped my calf turn This just leave because I was gesturing so impassively Careful Joe don't rip your calf turn

Dude, it's like a really mean insult Francine do you want to tell us what happened previously on the long earth? Fran-Cine-Certainly. Previously on the long earth, an open source blueprint opens a seemingly endless string of nearly earths, reachable by almost anyone and reached almost immediately by the young and unprepared. Luckily for them, reluctant hero Joshua Valiante knows how to follow instructions properly. As it turns out, he's uniquely qualified to explore these brave new worlds. He doesn't even need a potato.

Years down the line, a motorcycle mechanic reincarnated as an omniscient supercomputer scoops up our protagonist and hires him as a failsafe on a corporate-backed exploratory mission. The unlikely pair step west in an opulent airship determined to mine the mysteries of the long earth. Oh, name of the thing and the thing. Nice. Excellent. Do you want to summarize the second half of this book? Yeah, summarize is definitely a word you could use. As I mentioned, chapter 26 through to the end, Josh attempts to go for a swim, swiftly thwarted by an oversized ichthyosaur. It's getting lonely on the airship. Lobsang and Joshua discuss the apparent migration

of the trolls heading east back towards Datum until they come across the remains of a church and its attendees. Elves appear to be afoot and a step. Joshua negotiates a calmer pace, tries to stop for a holiday, only to be attacked by hogriding elves, and as he recovers, Lobsang does his best to be reassuring. As the ship steps on westward, there are many signs of humanoids, but not so many humans. Stepping through a new inland sea belt, Joshua makes a friend who disappears in the blink of an eye at an approach of some horrific wasps. Joshua considers for a moment, jumping ship, and makes some new ground rules, but he's certain he's going to see Sally again. Meanwhile, back in Madison, Monica Janssen watches misanthropy blossom. I'm particularly proud of that sentence. Sally sends up a signal, comes aboard the airship for dinner and directs Joshua

and Lobsang to the strange little townships of happy landings where humans and trolls live in disturbing harmony. Sally is aware of the great troll migration, wants to know why, and offers up her knowledge of soft places. Another Jansson interlude shows the growing fear and hate spread by humanity first, back on the datum, as Joshua and Sally get personal in each howder. On a visit to a moonless earth, Lob Sang speaks to trolls. The trio discuss the building pressure, the sound of something big, and when the ship speeds up to find the cause, it plunges into the gap. Stepping on carefully in the almost ruined airship, a message comes. Lobsang and Joshua speak to a vast intellect. Lobsang takes his leave to join First Person Singular, and the crushing noise stops. Joshua and Sally make plans to travel on

with the airship in tow. They make it back to happy landings and then reboot and intend to get back to the original Madison. But Helen Green gives them unhappy news. With data Madison destroyed and lives saved, thanks to Monica Janssen's best efforts, Joshua and Sally stand reeling in Madison West One. Lob sign calls. Yeah, I mean, that was, as I said, right at the top, a hell of a pacing. I really, really enjoyed the kind of, it almost slowed down as we reached what seemed to be the ending. Yeah, like Lobsang taking his leave almost feels really anticlimactic in the end. Yeah. And then you remember it's because, oh yeah, there's still a nuclear bomb to go off after that. Yeah, yeah. I had honestly forgotten that was in this book. I thought it was the start of the next book because obviously the start of the next book is the aftermath of this book. Yeah. And so I was like, oh yeah, there's a bit of an epilogue here, something, something.

Yeah. Oh no. Oh. It's been so long since I've read this as well. I kind of forgot what the next book was about. I cheated because obviously I'm not rereading it yet until September when we talk about it. And had to go look up the plot summary because it was bugging me that I couldn't remember what happened. Oh. I am that sort of person.

God, you're even worse than me when it comes to not caring about spoilers. I am actually going to reread it without reminding myself first. No, I was quite happy to remind myself first. Anyway, I won't be spoiling any of that in this episode. I will, however, quickly mention helicopters and wind cloths. MS. Oh, please do. MS. I know there are actual helicopters and stuff, but more importantly, as Joshua is traveling and discovering all sorts of wonderful wildlife, at once a flopping squirming thing that looked for

all the world like an octopus spinning like a frisbee through the canopy trees. It's my favourite creature in the entire book. I want to be friends with the frisbee octopus. Have we had one of these on Discworld? We've had something like that, haven't we? There's a lot of odds. I'm pretty sure there is a tree octopus in this. I feel like that came from Pratchett. In Pratchett. Yeah. Clutch seems like, oh, maybe Haunderland. Yes.

Alas, still lacking in loincloths. Although I feel like those elves that specifically were sporting skinny erections could have done with some loincloths. The absence of loincloth was, as it were, almost a loincloth. Yes. Maybe the real loincloth were the skinny erection dolls. We prefer that. No, right. Never mind. There's plenty, there's a lot of elephants. To the point where I gave up on highlighting the elephants. But Francine, have you got a relevant elephant? Yeah, I thought I could narrow it down a bit because we had a case of an Australian riding a dwarf elephant. Yes. I think he was Australian. He

certainly wanted to get to Australia. He sounded Australian to me. Yeah, he wanted to go to the pub. That was a horrible stereotype. But well, I think it's fine. Anyway, the there was a population of the Colombian mammoth that lived on the northern Channel Islands of California during the late middle Pleistene. So I guess that might be related to this little fella and they were about 150 to 190 centimeters at the shoulder. I've never wanted to meet an animal so badly in all my life. Yeah unfortunately it seems like people arriving and meeting the animals was the

the end of those animals. Yeah, upsetting, but doesn't really surprise me. Yeah, I also did highlight, I said I might try and choose my favorite elephant of the bunch. Yeah. And it's impossible to say for sure, obviously, but I think I like the concept of the camouflage elephant. Yes, that's fair. I feel like this is when we were asked your favorite Discworld book, like we accept it's

just your favorite today and could change at any moment and picking your favorite elephant from the book is very much the same thing. Yeah, definitely. Jessica, it coincides with my love of the whole veterinary camouflage topic. Camouflage and elephants, two of your favorite things. Yeah. I know. Which they're not very compatible usually, but finally.

Yeah. That's why Francine and I don't see each other very often. She's there. I just can't help but see her. Camouflaged. Tragically, I can't bring an elephant with me. Quotes. Do you want to go first?

Yeah, sure. Please note, I offer a nice, shiny ball. Good. Joshua observed the sounds of appreciation and interest. See, the pretty shiny thing. And now I take it away. Ah, the sounds of sadness and privation. Very good. But note that the adult female is alert, emitting sounds of uncertainty

with just a subtle hint that were I to try anything really nasty with her favorite bag of wooliness, she would quite likely rip off my arm and beat me to death with the wet end. Splendid! Joshua, see, I give the ball back to the pup. Now mother is less apprehensive and all is sweetness and light once more." Beautiful. I think that made me laugh so much. I love lobsang. How about you? Have you picked something slightly less nonsense?

I went a bit dramatic. This is from having stepped back, quickly passing through the gap again. Ah yes. Mind the gap. Fucking mind the gap. Didn't we talk about mind the gap recently? Quite possibly. Can't remember in what context. Didn't the woman who originally recorded the mind the gap message pass away or something? Yeah, no, but it was in a Pratchett book. Sure it was. All right, sorry.

Please read your story and I'll try and remember. Oh, Raising Steam. Raising Steam, thank you. Yeah, it was the one with the trains. Yeah. Yeah. No, there was a sci-fi thing. Sorry, please continue.

I will come back to it. Did he really feel the stinging cold of space? Did he really hear the sloughing of the wind of oblivion between the galaxies? Nothing seemed real, not until he found himself gazing out at a clouded over sky and heard rain beating at the gondola windows. That's me. Just that brief moment of, did I really just? Yeah, yeah.

In such a huge epic, oh god, I was in the cosmos for a second kind of way. Yeah. Also, unappreciated word, sloughing, I think. Yes. Love a slough. A slough? A slough? Slough. One of them. I certainly don't say I didn't have to know how to pronounce it, but it's a relative of sighing, I suppose. It's a susceration, it's a whisper. Either that or the word was meant to be sighing

and that was a misprint that I copy and pasted. No, something works very well in that context. Yeah. Right, should we talk characters then? Sowing, I think. I think it is. Sowing, I think it might be sowing. I think it could be.

All right, do you know what? Listeners, answers on a cosmic postcard. Thank you. Characters then, should we start with Joshua? We shall. We shall. I really like in this section, we see all of these ways in which he's actually an incredibly caring person, which considering he's such a loner, I like the little detail of choosing

to wear the bracelet and have this little connection. His attempt to help the elf that's giving birth and again it sort of connects to his mother and he doesn't want this elf to have to go through alone what his mother did alone. Yeah, it's a real painful parallel for him there, isn't it? Yeah. And even the little things like he wants to get back home because he's worried about the nuns because he has now taken on the role of caring for them in a way they used to care for him.

Yeah. Yeah. And you've seen him reach the end of his introversion as well. Not the end of it, but the limits of it. Yes. He's finally found the need to be around another human being. Yeah. And I wonder if that was sped along somewhat by being in the

constant company of Lobsang. Yeah, well, technically human, I said, are we going to agree that Lobsang's human? I think I'm gonna say yes, Lobsang's human. Go with him. Yeah, okay. But I imagine also, you know, when like, you are a bit of a loner, and you really want introverted time, but you're, you cannot feel 100% alone. Like being alone with one person for a really long time is almost worse than being by yourself for a really long time.

Yes, yes. Apart from a few very specific people, yes, definitely. Yeah, there are some people I can't tolerate for much longer, but yeah, it's a very short list. But yes, no, definitely. And yeah, just his his perspicacity as well. Like, he's better at reading Sally than Sally would like.

Yes. Considering he is, again, pretty introverted, but he had to learn to read people, of course. And also, I feel like Sally is such a kindred spirit to him. He's able to read a lot of her because it's things he knows about himself. I like that he's very self aware. I don't think you really ever get an impression of him lying to himself. No. He has also got this kind of this resilience that you see in that like the real extreme situations like the walking into this church full of, you know, dead people. walking into this church full of, you know, dead people. Yeah. Um, and while you can't, you know, we don't get a huge amount of feeling explanation from him.

You get enough, but not a lot, but you know, that would be incredibly, you know, adventure stoppily traumatizing for almost anybody, but he is very much the perfect adventurer and that that he can learn from and feel empathy, but also not just be stuck. Yeah, not be drowning in it. He's got this, alongside this caring thing, this overwhelming urge to fix things as well. And they go to the moonless planet and he's like, we could fix it. Get a snowball out of the Oort cloud and a fairly small spacecraft on the right trajectory could tip one of those and get some water onto the planet. Yeah, he never stops for a second to think do we need to? Dust is definitely fixing, there's plenty of others. But I think there's something of that in his ability to empathize and to really care. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And like respectfully shutting off the radio at the place. Yeah.

And the one born again every, what's it called? The cosmic confluence trick. Yes. Who believe that there is one born every minute. Yes. The comedy atheist. One born again every minute, yes. Yeah. And there's this code he took, he thinks about this code of the long earth. There was an unwritten rule out in the reaches of the long earth that you helped the other, the wanderer, the community in trouble, which is, you know, going to that radio signal in the first place. And there's something about So they aren't also forced to confront this situation. It's dreadful that my best kind of internal vocalisation of this concept comes from letter Kenny rather than any other source.

But just the phrase, a man asks for help, you help him. It's kind of how I always think about that now. If somebody asks me for help or a favour or whatever, I'm like, yeah, someone asked for help, you help them. I'm similarly redneck. I've been re-watching My Name is Earl and now very thinking much about the context of karma. I'm gonna love that. Where is it? Where can you stream it? It's on Disney+. Oh, do you know what? That's probably tip tip for me. I need to get a couple months of Disney+.

I loved My Name is Earl. Obviously, as this is an official output, we don't recommend password sharing here on the True Shomeiki for that. But like, let me know if you just want to. Okay, cool. Yeah, Josh was like loneliness and that need for human contact and spotting it and sadly as well how excited he is when he sees the campfire and then having to stop and then having to button his trousers up even faster

because Lobsang's there and apparently doesn't feel like modesty very strongly. Yeah, no. You just try and forget the fact he can see everything in the ship and just focus on the knowable embarrassment. Exactly. And they both kind of can't stop talking when they get to each other. And he's like, well, I know she's going to come back because I can feel she's lonely. She's spilling out her guts as soon as we get together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Again, it's on a very magnified level.

It is kind of like me when I was working on my own all the time. I do feel like I did that to Jack every time he got home. Yeah. The problem is I do it to my partner a bit, but my partner is also the sort of person who like just needs to work vomit to a human not connected to a situation. So he'll talk a bit when he gets home from work. And I was like, that's fine. But I haven't done the talk in my turn. So we're both just really obnoxious to each other. So like 10 minutes. Yeah, yeah. Then we come down. And it's fine as long as you don't need to remember what the other one said. Yep. Yep. Then we come down. And it's fine as long as you don't need to remember what the other one said.

At no point do you. Just go. Yeah. Any other Joshua thoughts? Not that aren't going to come up later, I think. Yeah. The pressure in his head, obviously interesting when he actually properly vocalizes it. Like going to a party where everyone is going to fit in except you and like it's a like magnetic field pushing you away. Yeah. Yes. Which by the way, I don't just in case I forget to get to it when we get there, it disappears when he meets when he gets to the world with first person singular, doesn't it? Yeah. And is that just like, do you think like the pressure dissipating when a storm arrives? I think some somewhat and then also first person singular like moving away and not continuing this.

But it stops immediately as he gets there. Yeah. Well, you later with the first person singular stuff, it's explained that the silence kind of is first person singular thoughts. So I feel like he's so close to first person singular and that kind of broadcasts to the thoughts that that takes away the pressure because now he's literally immersed in the silence. Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah, I get it. Sally then. Sally. I really like how Sally's written. I think there's very little obnoxious rising women, which obviously is something reading a sci fi or fantasy book you're always going to look for a little bit is this going to be weird or gross at any point.

Yeah yeah there's a little much of the you know sarky cynical side comments but I feel like that's slightly reflective of the time it was written. Yeah. It's been a bit overdone now not by them. now, not by them. Yeah, it's, it's not quite like that kind of Weedonny, Josh Weedonny, clapbacky, snarky type character. But it's close enough to remind me of it. Yeah, it's in the same family. It's a cousin to it. Yeah.

And yeah, not their fault. It's before, this is before it was really overdone. She's great. And it's nice to have, you know, someone in their 30s allowed to be a protagonist. Yeah. And obviously never a problem practice had there. No, but it is something that doesn't happen that often, especially in genre fiction, or any fiction, especially with women.

An older woman and a younger man as the two protagonists, unusual. Yes. Even if older for a given sense of. Yeah, I mean, it's a few years. It's not a massive difference. But yeah. And there's no I do like the sort of little jokey comment about you don't know what my legs look like. And it's yeah, imagine it's really reminds me of I was an episode of what I like you with Sam Campbell

on it. Yeah, Sam Campbell. there's an episode of What I Like To You with Sam Campbell on it. Do you know Sam Campbell? One of the best surreal contestants on Tales of Master, but he's did a very good surrealist Australian comedian. Oh right, no, I don't think I've seen any of his stuff. But he's, at some point David Mitchell is questioning him on whether something is alive, because that's how the game works. And he just goes, I can see your expression. And he's like, don't look at my, don't try and like, guess what I'm thinking that's private or something. Excellent. I also like the description of what she's wearing when they first make,

which includes a useful looking sleeveless jacket that's all pockets. Yes. Like that's what you need on the long earth. Immediately practical, immediately practical. Like just so many pockets. Yeah. The main thing you need on the long earth. So we obviously we learned that this is Willis Lindsay's daughter or the way I think that well, we learned that in the first half with the little chapter where she goes stepping.

What that relationship was. Yeah. But we get a bit more detail of what that relationship was. Yeah. Part of it being that she's grown up with this sense of ownership over the long earth and it is a nice similarity with Joshua. Like, obviously, he found the long earth when everyone else did on step day, but it was immediately, except he was there before, it immediately felt kind of homish to him. Yeah. And he was better at it. As part, obviously, with the natural stepping and also he was just better at living there because he's good at learning the rules and living by them. Yeah. And then you combine that with her jealousy of Joshua specifically, because he's turned out

to be this kind of the king of the wild, long earth. Yeah Yeah, it's an amazing thing to worry so much about when she's got powers that he at the time genuinely couldn't imagine. Yeah. But I think there is just something about having this ownership of this childhood playground and you can she's had it taken away. Now that it's opened up to everyone. So then to also add in I had access to an unknowable multiverse before it was cool. Exactly. I would get a bit like that. Yeah. Yeah. No, definitely. I can see it. But like you, it's funny how far the irrationality goes. Yeah. I like having resolutely unimpressed with this massive airship.

Yeah. That she refers to as a great big penis in the sky. Yeah. That she refers to as a great big penis in the sky. She was resolutely unimpressed by Lobsang's treasure ship dirigible. Love the word dirigible. Treasure ship dirigible. Dirigible, yes, that should be used more often. Yeah. And her frustration at not knowing the purpose of the long earth? Yeah, again, it's something that Joshua asks a lot, something that she asks a lot. And for a pair of seeming atheists, I'm not sure Joshua was quite atheist, but

Yeah, it was raised by nuns. That does that's gonna leave you with some lingering agnosticism at the very least. Yeah, yeah. But people who don't seem like overly creationist, let's say. Yeah. Yeah. To worry so much about the meaning of it is surprising. Yeah, the nice little run, the long earth is too kind to us, just as we've trashed the datum and wiped out most of the life we shared it with and are about to succumb to our own resource wars, Shazam! An infinity of earths opens up, what kind of god sets up a stunt like that? And Lobsang says, you really are misanthropic, you object to this salvation. CHARLEYY Yeah, no limit to misanthropy. What did you call it? Misanthropy blossoming.

MIA Yes. CHARLEYY Beautiful. Misanthropy blossom sounds like something from one of those Magnus Archives gardens. So always bring it back of those Magnus Archives gardens. Yes, very much so. So always bring it back to the Magnus Archives. I'm sorry, you've reminded me of their existence. And now it's there all the time. I'm just saying my partner is currently listening and that's that.

My partner is listening and really shipping John and Martin, which is as it should be. As it should be. So yeah, that was my Sally thoughts. Any other Sally thoughts? I find it interesting that she is still looking for her father. Not surprising, but interesting for somebody so very practical. Because it seems impossible, doesn't it? But then again, maybe maybe not because obviously there are people that they are drawn to certain spots And it makes sense that and obviously as well like her father was setting up to live somewhere You know the bit where they're talking about all the animals that he was bringing into the house and then no sign of them He was obviously setting up some kind of

Husbandry situation. Yeah, that is true. That is true. Yeah, fair enough Yeah and I feel like there's also because he was the family and natural steppers and he was the one who figured out the stepper box and had such a unique way of thinking things. I feel like what's it for and where is dad are quite intertwined for her. Yes. Because he was the one who made stepping available to everyone. And the long earth opens up and resource guests, he no longer is a problem. I think he might have a different insight into her that she wants to hear. Yes, yeah, no, you're right. Yeah. Yeah. No, she's just a very interesting character. She is.

And you get the sense that you only kind of skim the surface on this bit. And like part of really wanting to read the next book is like, oh, more about her, please. Yeah, I did see like, I said quickly looking at Wikipedia summaries, and this isn't a thing, but at one point, one of the Wikipedia summaries, I think for this book, she got described as a potential love interest. And I quite like that that's not really the vibe between her and Joshua. Yeah, no, for sure.

Yeah. Like it's not completely and totally like 100% off the table and there's lighthearted teasing and possibly finding each other attractive. Yeah. But there's also a sense of we shouldn't like fall into each other's arms just because we're kind of Adam and Eve-ing it out here with the one boy and girl in a lot of these places. I don't think I've ever heard Adam and Eve it outside of a cockney fly. Well it's because it reminded me specifically of in like season one of Lost, there's this whole story arc where they go and find these caves that have got fresh water and

it's whether to stay on the beach and get rescued or go live in the caves. And Kate deciding to not be in the same place, they find like two skeletons in the cave, one male and one female. And so someone jokes says something about them being Adam and Eve. And Kate refuses to go live in the same place as Jack because she doesn't want to be the Eve to his Adam. Yeah, fair. So yeah, very fair, especially when Sawyer's down on the beach. I mean. Gosh, Halloway. Anyway, sorry.

Anyway. That was our little lost corner. Should we talk about Lobsang? Let's talk about Lobsang. I love how he's constantly upgrading. He is a little bit, but like brackets affectionate. Oh, yeah, very much brackets affectionate. Yeah, the constant upgrading he is like on this version of self improvement that's very specific. It reminds me of how the god of evolution is described in The Lost Continent, just like popping back into his workshop and coming out with an elephant on wheels or whatever.

Yeah. Or like slightly more competent. Just like making beetles to calm himself down, that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, and eventually getting such an influx of knowledge that he has to shut down for a bit too. Yeah, when he's dealing with the trolls and then has to stop and compile. My particular favorite little shit moment was when Josh gets back from the fight with the pig running trolls and he's had to kick his way out of this den and everything. And Lobsang, the first thing Lobsang says is you kicked a puppy. Just before Joshua is unconscious for three days.

Yeah. They've got a great buddy cop dynamic these two. They do. I like that. Yeah, it's not like a good cop bad cop vibe. It's just two people doing something very silly together. Yeah, yeah. You can definitely see that exchange in the context of the mean streets in New York. Also, he is troubling, I would say more so in this half than the first half. I think you get more reminders, or maybe it's just me picking up on it more, that his ersatz interest in this whole thing is for the black corporation. Yeah, the moment where he... ...is a corporation. Yeah, when he spots the fungi that is like incredibly nutritious, and he's immediately like, really good for fast food.

Yeah, not for like feeding. Oh, I guess there's no resource thing anymore. Yeah. But yeah. And then like, they found this like untouched coastline at this inland sea in North America. And he's like, Oh, it could be of when I used to work on an international real estate magazine. I went on this press trip to Cape Verde, one of the islands in Cape Verde that was still largely untouched. And I was standing on this gorgeous untouched beach and listening to the guy with me talk about how they were going to build hotels on it. I was like, oh, fuck, I hate this. Yeah. It's kind of like that. But on a multi, it's more complicated, obviously, obviously, on a multiverse level. But Yeah, it's it's we're talking about it being sinister. But it's really capitalism being built in and the capitalism bit being the sinister bit. Yeah. And I do also wonder how much of it love sang means at this point.

Yeah, and how much is kind of surely too smart for it. It feels like it's almost like there's a second little personality that just has to occasionally pop, it's like they're like pop-up ads. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a little module in his software. Yeah. It's like corporate.

Yeah. Um, or like how much can I sort of keep paying off the black corporations so that I get to keep lob sang about. Yeah. Um, I really just like his silly little bit of enthusiasm about Sally where he really wants to get her on the ship and says sort of like, tempter, we've got superb cuisine, offer her sex. Can't you beguile her? Beguile her. Joshua, be beguiling!

And the funny thing is, of course, they're sitting there eating oysters around a campfire, which would be quite romantic in most contexts. If there wasn't a lobsang shouting, offer her sex! Condiment tangent. Sally has brought Worcestershire sauce with her. Yes. For oyster reasons. If you were bringing a condiment with you. Yeah. Pick one. It would have to be some form of hot sauce. Okay. Yeah. I think I'd probably go with Sriracha because it's quite versatile really. Yeah. But I felt a lot of meals that maybe would be potentially quite bland or depressing. It would either be hot sauce or soy sauce. Okay. Okay.

Yeah. What about you? I don't know. I said it and now I don't know. Am I going to be, is it terrible if I say ketchup? No? I just feel like I could probably eat most things with ketchup. It's like the rat situation, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. I unfortunately can't eat most things with ketchup. Yeah. Because I'm allergic to ketchup. Oh yeah. But vaguely intolerant sometimes getting wifes. It's not exactly a, I'll eat ketchup and die. I unfortunately can't eat most things with ketchup because I'm allergic to ketchup. But vaguely intolerant sometimes can't, it's not exactly an ugly ketchup. It won't help with the rats. But yeah, it won't help with the rats.

But yeah, I will put hot sauce on almost anything so I feel like I can get through a lot of... I would still struggle with the oysters. Most seafood I'm fine with, but I'm not an oyster person. I've eaten oysters. I've never sort them out since, but I ate them and thought they were fine. They're fine, but I once had to shuck 100 oysters in like an hour. Oh yeah.

Yeah, it made me really hate oysters. Oh, usually something you have to do in a pub kitchen, is it? No, I wasn't in a pub kitchen. It was in a tent. Right, yeah, of course. Yeah, that was a traumatic day for a lot of reasons. Anyway, oh, love saying, like his frustration about space exploration, obviously, he gets really excited about the potential of the gap. He says, we could have been out there applying to join the Galactic Federation, not slashing and burning away across endless copies of the same old planet. I like this is just like this little burning thing in there.

He sponsors the space. He's pissed off that humanity didn't bother with it anymore than it started to. Yeah. But you know, he can now. Oh, he can now? Yeah. Like, way more lifespan on in the most people and all the resources in several worlds. And yeah. There's not a massive spoiler to say that a later book in the series is called The Long Mars. Yeah. I must say personally, I would not be as excited about space exploration as I would be about long earth exploration, but yeah, I think I like life. Like theoretically, I am very

excited by the idea of space exploration. But if I was on the long earth, if this was a real thing, I would be more excited about the long earth exploration. Yeah, I was on the long Earth, if this was a real thing, I would be more excited about the long Earth exploration. Yeah, I can say for me, space is very interesting. I don't find it exciting in the same way that I would like deep sea exploration if we're going to stick to reality here. If we're sticking to reality, I would take deep sea over space any day. I mean, I'm not going to either because of the Colostropogia, but if I'm seeing the results of. So I would still take deep. I mean, yeah, I'm probably not going to either because of the claustrophobia, but if I'm like seeing the results of. Oh, so I would still take, I mean, yeah, I'm probably not going to either either for practical and budgetary reasons. If I had a choice to go to one though, it would be Deep Sea. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Right, Trolls. Trolls. What song would you sing for the Trolls? I don't know. I think maybe Here Comes the Sun. Hmm. That's a nice idea. I like that one. I think it blends with a lot of other songs nicely. It's just for me the first song I think of and I think of emotional but positive songs. I didn't think of something before we started and I was sure something would pop into my head

and so far it hasn't so I'm going to come back. I mean maybe I'll just teach them some Spice Girls. Yeah. Yeah. I can imagine a beautiful coral if you want to be my lover. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Spice Girls. And you've got to think like what would pop into your head in the moment as well. Which would likely be- For me it would probably be like Beatles Spice Girls, something like that. Isn't it? Something catchy. Yeah. Exactly. There's no point me trying to hum a symphony anyway. would likely be... Probably be like Beatles Spice Girls, something like that, isn't it? Something catchy. Yeah, exactly.

There's no point me trying to hum a symphony anyway. Yeah, no, it's not happening. Maybe title of Quicks of the Heart? Just to teach the trolls the 80s power grab? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just imagining the trolls doing the... Yeah, the way they use music as communication, it's really fascinating. Even a sort of checksum in the songs, a self correction mechanism, so that they're all getting the same information reliably. And eventually, it'll spread to all of the trolls. That really fascinates me because it's sort of like, like a checking mechanism on an algorithm. And bear in mind, my understanding of how algorithms work is like super, super, super basic. Yeah, I'm out of my depth immediately. Unfortunately, I think I vaguely understand the concept of a checksum. But yeah, very well. But I liked it. And I like the idea of taking something that we maybe understand from well, again,

using the term understand, really quite generously. And applying it to music, which is something I don't understand in a completely different direction. Yeah. Yeah. No, definitely. And yeah, the idea of this information spreading like that is beautiful. And yeah, it reminds you of like the oral history stuff, which you love. Yeah, big fan of how things spread and how information spread is very interesting. To me, at least. And yeah, then looking at the impact of what happens if they live around humans, the fact

that they have to keep the human numbers under a certain amount, which we assume is a similar thing with Joshua, otherwise the pressure is too high. Yeah. The way that a place gets kind of weirdly peaceful with trolls around. Yeah, it does make you think that humans' brains just must be naturally very loud. Which wouldn't surprise me. I think we're quite a brash species. Yes. Oh, definitely. But even compared to the far more violent elves, the trolls, for

example, the elves obviously not. But maybe they're just more single-minded. If we start thinking back on Discworld, we've got the borrowing experiences and we have the sharp mind of the eagle and the tangled mess of a human mind. Yeah. And the trolls being, I guess, softer and more rounded. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe a little easier to navigate, but in a gentle way rather than the sharp predator way.

Yeah. And then as the opposite, we have got the elves. I like the, again, bringing in the folklore stuff. It's Sally, who points out the distinct iron connection. In mythology, they're afraid of iron and that could be used to trap them and stop them stepping. Yeah, mental, isn't it? I didn't even make that connection until, like she said, spell it out, even though we were talking about the iron thing. Yes. We are incredibly smart people who definitely can make connections on our own without being distinctly told them by the book.

Yeah, and that's like the banging of the acoustic stuff and the... Oh, and yeah, the singing stones and the idea that they actually keep the stepping things away. Yeah. Although that was trolls, wasn't it? Rather than elves, but it could be both. Yes, but it could keep elves away. So the idea of stones, I mean, the whole idea of going, oh, maybe this has an acoustic thing as opposed to just a visual physical thing. I think that is a that is an area of study, isn't it? Yes, acoustics of acoustic archaeology. Yeah. I was trying really hard not to go through, go down too many rabbit holes when I wrote

on my research yesterday or I would now be talking in great depth about acoustic archaeology. Archaeoacoustics. Just going to bookmark that and close it. Thank you. Well done. Thank you. For down the history of espionage Wikipedia page, Francine. And then first person singular, who I don't even really know how to talk about because it's so big.

Yes. Are we giving her Joshua's designated? I'm going to go with the she. The kind of explanation, the silence, what he had been hearing all his life in the gaps between people, huge thoughts like the echoes from some tremendous brass gong. Yeah. It's just so big. Yeah. Yeah. And just the kind of gentle mass extinction of it all. Sinister benevolence. Yes, sinister benevolence. That's how I wrote it down. This is not a malevolent phenomenon.

There's no villain here. This is an expression of another kind of sentience. And it's terrifying. Not even in it, because it's not uncaring. Yeah. That's why I, benevolence as opposed to like, just antipathy. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's not like it's it's almost like but not like that the stories about,

you know, AI accidentally killing humanity on a mission to make more paperclips or something. clips or something. It comes with a purpose and a curiosity and a love and it's not a giant accidentally crushing us but it's almost that just with some good feelings with it. It's like the genius plot twist of Mass Effect that we created these massive sentient AI things called Reapers and had them try and figure out how to stop sentient creatures from constantly devolving into war and destroying themselves and the Reapers go, well that and fighting with AI and the AI going, yeah, no, you end up fighting with AI when you develop AI so every 50,000 years we're just going to come obliterate everything. Yeah.

Yeah. Time out. Maybe don't invent an AI to solve the problem of AI. Well, we'll find out. And if you do, don't give it lasers. Don't give it lasers, right noted. Sorry. Yeah, this is all for you specifically, Francie, in your advice. But yeah, just the one chapter as well, the introduction of one person singular, which is a paragraph long chapter was beautiful. chapter as well, the introduction of one person singular, which is a paragraph long chapter was beautiful. The fact that it starts like it's right at the beginning of the book, and then gets echoed here.

And that's like the big reveal of what that weird thing was at the beginning of the book, I, to what purpose. And that shared thing it has with Lobsang, with Sally, with Joshua of wanting to know why. Yeah. Obviously, it's going about it in a very different way. Yes. It is beautiful. It's wonderful. And also, yeah, just something completely unexpected as a, not a big bad, but a extinction

event. Yeah. I think they've done really well. We're coming up with just, right? And then it being kind of anticlimactic because then there's another big climax to the book. Yeah, yeah. Like you sort of have to go back and reread a couple of times and realize, oh yeah, no, Lobsang is like gone, gone now. Yeah, and it's anticlimactic in a way because it's gentle, but at the same time it's, and we'll talk about later, just the ideas it throws up are pretty overwhelming. Yeah, and then you don't really get any time to process that.

Yeah. I don't want to meet a massive giant intelligence, to be honest. I feel like that would be my limit for curiosity and exploration and the rest of things. Yeah, I'd pop back to the Humpty Landings as well for a bit, for sure. Yeah, and then we'd pop back to the Humphrey Landings as well for a bit for sure. Yeah, a little sit down and a drink. Brian Cowley, I only want to talk about briefly because he's gross. And his whole attitude, I'll talk about his attitude towards this idea of evolution a bit later, because big theme of the book. But there's just something immediately putting your teeth on edge when you just read like the opening paragraph of his interaction, where he's kind of mocking your term stepping and taking his little baby steps across the stage. And then just in case like his grossness doesn't set you up enough, Jim Russo's there, so you just, you know, it's bad. We know this is a gross situation. Yeah, but it's well portrayed as well as to how these ideas get in by kind of picking at actual problems in the world. So some of them even have homes standing empty. You know, how many people

are homeless in America today? Right. Yeah, but maybe trying to band stepping or make that not happen is not the way to solve that problem. Yeah, no, exactly. And obviously not, you know, similarly, populist ideas here, which includes things like, you know, the problems they start with includes things like, you know, there's not enough money in healthcare or something. And the answer is not to stop the people who work in healthcare coming to this country. Weird weirdly. But that's what they go with. And then you have Rod Green, which is this big payoff from the first half of the book. He's been left behind

and he's been left behind and he's at home alone. Sorry, I'm sorry to say two things at once there. And so of course, he's there and he's very much buying into this rhetoric because he has been left. And his life is funded in some ways staying here, despite the people who own maybe those properties or should be paying those taxes not being here. Yeah. And there's like a community, not community exactly, but a class of them, the cops had labeled the home alone. Yes, like lots of people did this to their kids. What a dreadful idea. Yeah, it's a horrific thing. And obviously, once you're left alone and you are lonely like that, you look for community and something to help you justify your anger.

And your anger is very justified. And so it makes sense. This is the big thing that comes into why a lot of young men now fall into these uber right-wing pathways. And it starts by attacking on things like loneliness. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, it's, I think I've ranted briefly about it in the last, not briefly, ranted about it in the last episode, but just the, we see that there's some kind of medicine you can give to stop people convulsing if they're extreme phobics kind of thing. And like, people are working on this already. But the idea that a very clever set of people would leave

their child rather than pour their energy into working out how to bring it with you. Yeah. Now, it is a horrific idea. And then last couple of characters and short, because they're not in this as much, Monica Yanson, who was written in the ranks, no longer a police officer, and has gone from getting a handle on how stepping affects people to specifically focusing on this anti-stepping sentiment. Mm. Yeah, she's a good undercover. Yes. As it turns out. Probably just because of the, you know, empathy being able to understand people pretty quickly. Yeah.

I think she cares. She doesn't like Brian Cowley. She doesn't like Jim Russo, but she cares about how people got here agreeing with their sentiment. Yeah. And not just stopping it. She can see the younger, the younger boys and she's sympathizing towards them, if not towards the older men who know what they're doing. Yeah. Especially older men like Jim Russo who can step he's just pissed off because he has not made a profit. And then her excellent you know, her hero moment. I'll tell people to step and blah, blah, if you turn your car around, not a chance, you're fired. Noted, but I'll stay on the line. around. Not a chance. You're fired. Noted. But I'll stay on the line.

Yeah. Again, yeah, lovely buddy caught moment. Love that she just called spooky now. Yeah, I have a pop culture, like an ongoing pop culture reference in a in a sci fi book as well. Good fun. Yes. Also, just because I didn't have anywhere else to mention it, that idea at the end when she's in Madison West One, and everyone is being stepped over and evacuated, and she sees the city take shape from the people. So the college students in one area and the hospital and the business district and the shopping district where people were having coffee. I don't know, you know my whole thing about Pratchett and like the kind of aerial view writing he does, it felt like a little bit of that. Yeah, but it was also horrendous. It was like a, I mean, it was horrendous. You got the you got the ghost buildings at the end of the three stories, you know, it's a bit 911 reminder, isn't it?

Oh, yeah. It's not horrific. But it's not not horrific. But it's very good. Yeah, it's great. It's great to read. It's just very affecting in a way you don't expect until you get that last bit. Yeah, the tone of everything is so cleverly modulated, I think through this last bit especially. The fear and frustration getting people to step. Getting people to take that alarm seriously and then getting from Rod Green like what the time is, how long they have. Yeah. Yeah. But getting people to take that alarm seriously and then getting from Rod Green, like what the time is, how long they have. And then I just wanted to briefly mention Helen Green because she was like part of one of my favourite bits from the first half and then we actually meet Helen Green, contemporary Helen Green and Joshua meets contemporary Helen Green and that's more gross because he's late teens and he thinks she's cute and age gap. I don't mind age gaps. I

mind age gaps combined with some kind of power imbalance and the fact that he's kind of famous and she clearly has a crush on him. It's not like, ew. Nothing happened apart from him saying she's cute though. So like in his head, I don't feel that. I mean, whatever. It's also I think because I'm reading speculative fiction, I'm always a little bit more sensitive I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I think like visually, like when you get sci-fi on screen and stuff. Oh, that's true. Yeah, you're more into that side of it. Yeah, fair. I mean, I'm not saying that it doesn't, by the way, it happens all the fucking time in speculative fiction, just not in any of the stuff I know we both read. Yeah. I know you were trying to gaslight me into thinking that there isn't sexist speculative fiction out there. Actually, I don't think sexism's ever happened in sci-fi. Wow, I've been just clearly, I've been misinformed for one scene. Anyway, oh, and then also just shoving in with Helen Green, the nice little reboot payoff of it being Franklin Talleyman, who we briefly meet as that expedition's setting out and

he manages to fix up the airship a little bit. Yeah, no, it's nice to see she's having a pleasant enough life, it seems. Yeah. Anyway, yeah. And we find out that her mum died. Yes, that was a bit sadder. Yeah. Especially as she was the driving force behind going.

Yes, and interesting actually that they've stayed in that case. Good point. I mean, I suppose once you're there, like going all the way back, just two of you, if you think it took the months to get there in the first place. Oh, and she's probably married by now. Yeah, quite possibly. Cause wasn't she engaged at 15 or something? No, I think that was someone else. She was like helping with birth. She was studying to be a midwife or something.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. But okay. Yeah. she's a midwife, like you got responsibilities in the community, this that and the other. It's not like a 19 year old. Yeah, exactly. And also, like, you know, she's gonna make this her life now. She's had time to think about it. She is free to leave whenever she wants once she becomes an adult. Yeah, we got formative years here. All right, gonna judge her dad still a little bit for not going back for the... Oh, yeah, no, I'm judging him hard. Right. Anyway, locations. Locations. We've got a lot of locations.

So we go to a lot of places. I just wanted to highlight a couple. So the entire of Long Earth. No. Happy landings. What Earth by Earth? Yeah, we've got plenty of time to go through the high megas. So happy landings, which we get to a little bit after a million, right? A million and a third, something like that? Yeah, a bit like that. We're definitely in the million in the millions, the megas. I really love this idea of, so this is this place where people end up and now it's understood to be part of this long earth chain. But when people first started ending up there, it was this sort of weird, people

just sort of accidentally step and end up here, this combination of natural steppers and soft places and this being like a well. And the fact that it's been so long, the fact that they have, you know, evidence that Romans were there, it's like this tiny little bit of all sorts of history. Yeah, just this settlement that must have fluctuated in size. And obviously, it talks about the increase in people as population increases exponentially. But if you think of like how much must have fluctuated in the early, early days. Yeah. Actually, how did Romans get there? Romans weren't in America.

Well, if I suppose it would move, people don't necessarily end up there geographically. Oh, no, you're quite right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The long the soft places you go place to place yet. Sorry. Quite right. But yeah, mental like you think there must have been times where it was two or three people and some other guy turns up and they're like, Oh, hi. Yeah, no, this is happening. And it's spread out into like a series of townships because of the trolls. So they can't have more than a certain amount number. It also is the best example of stuff that gets talked about later of you do not need to have like really intense agriculture and farming because you're supporting a small amount of people from just an incredibly generous bit of land. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's cool. It's very interesting. It is cool. I know we're going to talk about evolution and stuff a little bit later. Do you want to

mention the kind of weirdness of the sieve? It is weird. I'll talk about it later. I have a couple of notes in it, but it is definitely weird. And then yeah, I just wanted to talk about the gap. Because there's a really great bit of writing when they go into the gap, because the plot's kind of meandered and almost slowed down a little bit. And then it's quite a slow meandering plot in the first half of the book. You're going between this journey starting and all these little vignettes and stuff. And then you finally get to the point where they've got purpose and I'm saying speeds up the shit because we're going to go and find out what's causing this migration and what's hurting the trolls so much. And they're just out of no way stuck in space.

Yeah. Yeah. And then like this sort of reaction of this bit at the end of the chapter or beginning of the next chapter as they plunge into the gap and Josh should have been paying attention. The last couple of hundred worlds were broken up by craters, should have stayed alert and should have raised the alarm. Yeah, but God, fuck. But how would you know that? No, of course you can't. But obviously Joshua is massively self critical. Yeah. Yeah. To the point where it's like, oh, why didn't I foresee this completely unforeseeable circumstance? There's an interesting conversation in our discord actually about reading Joshua was quite autistic coded. I don't really have any way to weigh in on because I'm not autistic. But yeah, I can see it definitely. But again, it's hard to map that onto him because he's got us completely separate set of experiences. Yeah, exactly. How much of this is autism and how much is this is what a person is like

when this particular life happens to them. Yeah, it's like when you try and kind of map one queerness onto historical figures. Yeah, it doesn't quite work. I get it. I get what you're saying. However, how do we know what this does? But yeah, I would not be surprised if there was like a bit of intentional autism coding, but I wouldn't be surprised otherwise. That's a real good fence sit there, Francine. Well done. Excellent. Well done. And yeah, I just love this, the way it's described. The blue sky, the green world was a stage set that rips away to reveal darkness. Just what it does to you existentially

to suddenly go like, shit, there's no, there's no worth there. Literally no worth. Oh, fuck. Yeah. When you think of like the impact that people talk about when they see us from space for the first time. Yeah. Imagine if that and then it's not there. Yeah. I just thought that was very cool. It was very cool. You're right. Backtracking slightly to Taffy Landings, by the way, kind of loved the Stepford Stepford Wives idea, like this whole like, I am uncomfortable with how comfortable you all are. Yeah, I feel like I would be the same. Like when Sally's talking about wearing, she's the snake in

Eden. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is always like the trolls get out this kind of opiate feeling. Yeah. Which is, yeah. And I feel like I would, I would be uncomfortable with the comfortable. Yeah, definitely. All right, little bits we liked. Shall the comfortable. Yeah, definitely. All right. Little bits we liked. Shall I start? Yeah, do trees.

Trees. What are the massive tall forests that the airship is gliding over is great. But mostly we talked about this little bit already, where the two guys are experimenting with the standing stones and singing stones. It's a nice little reminder in that section of how Britain's getting on compared to America. Most of the stepwise worlds are basically people baking second back gardens and allotments and then getting attacked by wild boars, which not surprising. CHARLEYY But Occasional Savage, fine, whatever. CHARLEYY But lolz little rant. Trees root us, they

nurture us. There've been trees on this planet for 300 million years. Great huge tree ferns back in the Carboniferous. A tree is defined by its form, not its species. Once we lived in trees, trees are at the center of all our myths. And there are stories from all over a world trees like ladders to the sky. And I just thought, it's true. Trees are great. And also sidebar, but dendrochronology is one of my favorite little side interests, which is identifyingrochronology is one of my favourite little side interests, which is identifying how old something is if it's made from wood and how old the tree would have been when it was cast and that kind of thing. Which is how Brisson's

oldest road is identified as oldest through dendrochronology. Dendrochronology. My old friend. It's trees. I agree with the book. I agree with the book. I agree with lol specifically. Trees. Very fun thing to be excited about. The two seconds of, was that a fucking tree brushing on the bottom of the airship? Yep. From some kind of joke world with massive trees. I just quickly control F on my notes, on my highlights to find tree in case there was another

one. The only thing that's come up is unicorns getting their horns stuck in a tree trunk. Sally's immediate like, yeah, they're unicorns, they're not worth it. Dumb shit. Bloody great slabs of battering ram. What about you? What did you like? What about you? What did you like? So I liked, well, I liked, but also I wonder, what are we doing with potatoes here? What's going on here? I need to know a bit more about the potato logistics, basically. The potato in the stepper box. Yeah. I was trying to think about it in the last half, but this reminded me in this half

when we were talking about growing potatoes either side of happy landings. Now we've got some stepper technology. I don't know that we've talked about potatoes enough in the first half of this book, because obviously they're very integral to the stepper. How long does a potato last in a stepper? When does it stop working? I suppose this would probably map onto what we know about potatoes and batteries, wouldn't it? Also, do we have, we didn't talk about the seed potatoes, everybody must have brought with them. Yeah, as they were going. What happens if, if, if the potato blight happens? Like they talked about in reboot, how they weren't bothering growing things on separate worlds, which obviously I think they should have done. Side note, biosecurity as a problem in these communities we haven't really touched upon, as in making sure you

clean your boots off pretty fucking well so you don't bring an invasive species and ruin the next door world. Not relevant here, but can potatoes grow everywhere? The type of soil that they need. I feel like potatoes are quite versatile also. They are, but on earth. I don't know if you've got this on your list of questions. Does it have to be a potato? I've got Will an equivalent potato like tuba suffice? Exactly. One of the things I noticed is when Joshua's talking about all the food he can

find is that there are things called catlips, which are also known as catniss and that's a whole thing in the Hunger Games, which I've been rereading. Her name is catniss and she's named after these little water potatoes. Would they work? Would a sweet potato work? I don't think a sweet potato would work on instinct. Yeah. They just seem like they've got different density. I guess this goes back until we don't know enough about potato batteries. Yeah, I mean, I've clearly dedicated quite a lot of time to thinking about this and not five seconds to finding out about the bits of it I could.

So I would assume it's down to water. If it's conducting electricity, then it's got to be down to water. If it's conducting electricity, then it's going to be down to water content. Yeah, like how you can use a bit of potato to work your phone. Yeah. Okay, well, we need answers. Well, I'm glad you've asked the questions though, Francine. These are the kind of questions that need to be asked. Maybe this fandom website will help us. Or maybe one of the later books. Or maybe just

a bit of basic physics knowledge. We'll find out eventually. You wait, listeners. Or please send us a postcard decorated with potato stamps. The thing is, I'm also now quite hungry. And I wasn't planning on having anything potato related for dinner, but now I'm not going quite hungry. Yeah. And I wasn't planning on having anything potato related for dinner, but now I... I'm not gonna, because you have to cook them. Yeah, there is that. Like there's gonna be a hot stove involved.

Yeah, no, that's fair. Sorry, any potato thoughts? Oh no, no, I'm done with potato rant, sorry. Okay, okay. Please carry on. I just wanted to quickly talk about some of the movies and books that are referenced, because there's so many references, especially in this section.

Media reference section. The media reference section. One of the, obviously earlier in the first half, we had one of the first movies they watch on the airship is 2001, A Space Odyssey. Highly understanding the parallels between Hal and Lobsang are very fun to think about. I want to watch 2001, A Space Odyssey again now. There was a lot of I want to watch that for the first time or I want to watch that again. Reading this. They watched Galaxy Quest, which is a great movie. It's like a Star Trek spoof sort of, it spoofs lots of sci-fi, but especially Star Trek. It's very pratchety and it's about stars of a fictional show caught up in an alien invasion because aliens have seen the show and think that it's real and think it's a

documentary. It's got Alan Rickman in it. It's got a great cast, but Alan Rickman especially. We like Alan Rickman. Sadly, it's also got Tim Allen in it, who's kind of a dick, but it's got Alan Rickman in it. But I like this taste because I mentioned earlier, Lobsang's fascination with the space race, this taste for the sci-fi movie specifically. We also get The Mouse on the Moon, which is the one

with David Kossoff, the Jewish actor that Lobsang is specifically trying to sound like, so it's the right sort of reassuring. And that's another, that's a space race Cold War spoof thing. Yeah. Yeah. We've all been using wine to power spaceships. Hmm. I should watch some of, or get Jack to watch it. I haven't seen it, but I read the summary of it and now I think I might need to acquire it as the third in the little trilogy. There's a reference to Joshua doesn't want to admit

to Sally that one night he and Lobsang dressed up together as the Blues Brothers. I feel like a lot of this is Stephen Baxter and Terry Pratchett's tastes, but I feel like a lot of this just is Stephen Bratchett, the Stephen Baxter and Terry Bratchett tastes, but I feel like I've got very similar tastes to them in a lot of the what I'm enjoying and the spoofy comedy sci-fi of it all. Yeah. And then lastly, on movies, when they're going down to visit that abandoned civilization and Lobsang comes out wearing a fedora hat carrying a holster revolver and of course a bullwhip. Indiana Jones reference and Sally saying,

what you passed my personal Turing test. Pausing on that, a little call back to the research we did on nuclear semiotics. Oh yeah. A big black building. Yeah, and the fact that maybe there was an attempt at nuclear semiotics with that, or maybe not. Yeah, I noted the same thing when we got to the radioactive civilization. And going right back to the start of your list, the the how reference Yeah. Because he talked about the daisy daisy. They said I don't even have a bicycle major too, whatever. I only recently learned that, because in 2001 Space Odyssey, the housing sets are very creepy. I only recently learned that in 1961, there was a computer program to sing that in like the earliest demo of computer speech synthesis. That's what it is. Yeah, I. I listened to that and that's similarly creepy, but only because of that context.

Otherwise, it's quite sweet. Yeah, there's this little side plotline in Marvelous Mrs. Maisel because the father in that show works at Bell Labs and teaches at Columbia. He's a scientist and he is listening to her son's records trying to find a song to try and teach a computer to sing. Oh, okay. So he's listening to these records for a records trying to find a song to try and teach a computer to sing. Oh, okay. So he's listening to these like records for a three year old kind of thing. So actually, that was a reference to that actual program. So I think it was Bell Labs that did the first computer speech synthesis.

Yes, it was. Yeah, yeah. And Arthur C. Clarke watched a demo of it. I think maybe not the very first demo and then put it in his book, which then got in the way. Yeah, on books, there was a specific reference to an Arthur C. Clark book. I haven't read the city and something City and the Stars. Oh, yeah, that looked good, didn't it? I don't think I've read that. I didn't try and note enough. I read the summary of it. And I thought, can I note that down and then explain the reference and realize that I can't. Not without spoilers. Yeah. And also I need to actually read the book, I think, to I note that down and then explain the reference and realize that I can't. Not without spoilers.

Yeah. And also I need to actually read the book, I think, to really get that reference fully. So throw some Martha C. Clarke on my reading list. On the other books though, Ruffing It, obviously there's lots of Mark Twain stuff and the ship is called Mark Twain, but Ruffing It specifically. US astronauts Frank Borman and Jim Lovell read roughing it aloud to pass the time when aboard NASA's Gemini 7, a 14-day long Earth orbital mission in 1965. Say those astronaut names again. Frank Borman and Jim Lovell. Isn't Frank Lovell the name of the postman?

Oh! Is that right? Hang on. I think so. If so, that's a really cool extra detail. Bill level, bill level. Still, maybe. Still could be a reference. Yeah. But yeah, that is an extra detail about that particular Mark Twain book. And then just Sally talking about the books she grew up with. Tolkien, obviously, Larry Niven, who created Ring Ringworld and she mentioned E. Nesbitt.

Oh, she mentions Narnia as well, but I love an E. Nesbitt shout out because I don't think she gets enough credit considering she kind of created a genre and now I want to read... Yeah, we've got to add that to the classics list, haven't we? Yeah, the Samyad, Five Children in It, one of my favourite books from when I was a kid, now I want to reread it. So pulling that out. And quickly, music as well. There's a nice reference to Thomas Tallis in there talking about the Trolls singing and it all ends on one great chord. And we know Tallis was a particular favourite of Pratchett's.

Also, I've noted the French and apparently didn't put that on my list. So just quickly, the French deciding that anyone who wants to be French now can be French, but we have to discuss what being French means and so we're going to argue about it. Which is of course in itself a sign of being French. So I said, didn't I in the first half, if this opened up, I would go to mainland Europe rather than stepping from the UK because small island what if it's not there so I'm just gonna be French. Yep and if you say you're gonna be and argue with everybody else convincingly enough which I know you can. Yep you know I'm willing to argue. Well done you. I'll find a hill and die on it

probably quite literally if I try and go eventually through the longer. I don't know how to say hill in French, fuck. Sorry what else did you like? Jokers I just just thought a little shout out to the joke worlds again, because they're just such fun. They're just these tiny little flash fictions that Backstrum Fracture get to play with just the idea of okay, fine. Okay, okay, we don't have to explore this. But like, okay, so here's a locust world and airship appeared right in the middle of a flying plague of big heavy insects. One world where, love saying suspected, the Tibetan Plateau had never formed, sure. Obviously, he would notice that. And then there's something you can't understand at all. A world immersed in a perpetual crimson red dust storm, a world like a bowling ball, utterly smooth. And then one within the Inland Sea, which we've talked about before. And then one they stuff at for a little while,

which is what if no moon? Sarah- Yeah, the moonless world was a great one. And like, Josh will kind of being that's the one that Joshua wants to fix. He's disappointed that he even sees a beetle and the beetle is just a sad looking colour as well. I know. But it's amazing isn't it? You lift up a rock and see a beetle in this world. And you're just like, oh, that's not cool. This man is too jaded from the wonders of exploration. That's the kind of shit if you saw that on Mars, obviously that'd be it'd be very cool if you saw a beetle on Mars. The implications.

Implications of Mars people. The implications of Mars beetles. That's the title of my sex tape. Oh no. Sci-fi short story. I don't like how interchangeable the titles are for those of you. Right. So that's the end of the joke, as I've noted. So let's move on to talking points. Should we talk big stuff? Let's talk about evolution. That's a hinting I really want to. It's a very practice thing. And I'm assuming a very backstory thing as well. To not let a good story get in the way of diving into the depths of what it means to be human. And yeah, this idea of looking at how human the other humanoids have evolved versus humans and how stepping affects evolution and what it means to be evolved, italicised and air quoted and all of that. It's really cool. So you have this stuff actually jumping right back to Moonless World, the things that make life and evolution happen or not

happen, because the lack of tides make the ocean water stagnate so you don't have the intertidal zones that create complex life. Sidebar that reading that bit kept making me think of the history of the entire world, I guess, video specifically. Yeah. For the last couple of days. The sun is a deadly laser. The sun is a deadly laser. I will link to that in the show notes, but that the sun is a deadly laser kind

of always lifts in my head, I just say it to myself every now and then have a little chat. And all of that kind of sets up for first person singular, this this idea of a creature who evolves alone, because evolution happened cooperatively instead of competitively. Yeah. So the you end up with this single global organism and describes a distant branch of the contingency tree, this idea of the contingency tree running through the whole book is really cool. And the fact that first version singular has evolved in this very unique way and is now a threat to evolution and could bring the end of elves. And these ways where they're described as being not just animals,

they have not humanity, but they have evolved beyond just the base animalistic need. So in the aftermath of the elf almost giving birth and the child stepping out and people coming for her, Joshua realizes they care for their ill and I can't remember exactly where it came from. But there's a really interesting anthropologist who spoke about what is the first example of humanity and it is like archaeologically finding a bone with a broken bone that was set a set leg. Yeah, somebody who died a long time after they broke their leg. Yes. And that means that that person was cared for. Yeah. And then all of this stuff about you

have the conversation where they talk about how trolls treat their dead, they bury them with flowers. Yeah. And again, it kind of comes back to the thing from the first section, Joshua doing his best to cover the bodies with stones after that like disastrous expedition he went on. And there's a few different examples. There's something about treating the dead with respect that seems like an example of being advanced, which I thought was very interesting. And when you think about how early these other humanoids are speculated to have branched off from our shared ancestry, it assumes that either that's convergent evolution to treat one's dead that way or... Yeah. Or that's how you's how it was that early.

Is it is that how you define advanced civilization caring for the dead? And the remains they find on that abandoned civilization earth, the one with the nuclear the like nuclear radiation stuff. And finding a finger bone that had a ring with sapphires and says, they were like us, they were sapient because they chose to decorate. That was another example of sapience in advance. They're both kind of saddened by it. Sally describes it as, I feel I had a stillborn twin brother, that this whole civilization could exist and then no longer be. Yeah. Yeah. It's a big old trauma for them considering again, like how much shit they see. Yeah. The real existential moments.

Yeah. And then what's great is, well, great. But through the background of all of this, you have trans-earth, this sinister corporation, I mean, sinister because they're a corporation that's all got lots of things and it's sinister it's because capitalism is the villain all along, who want to keep stepping for themselves first, like that's the whole thing of Willis Lindsay running away from them. And this with that is this interesting idea of stepping for all these other creatures has kind of come about as part of the revolution. That evolution sorry, not the revolution. Yeah, it's just easy to assume I'm talking about a revolution.

Generally. But for humanity, it's evolved after capitalism. So it creates this marked difference of how stepping is treated, how living in worlds is treated. And so you have stuff like trans-Earth would be interested in this mushroom that can feed people in this way. And Willis Lindsay deciding to give stepping to everyone before trans-Earth can try and effectively claim the entire long Earth for themselves. Yeah. Yeah. And there are a few examples of that in history, aren't there? Like the guy who discovered insulin for diabetics made it. And made sure it was public. Then obviously America then managed to privatise it again.

Capitalism was the villain all along. And then Nelson, who we haven't spoken about yet, because it's one little chapter, really interesting chap, who has gone back to religion, and it's very intelligent, and has come from this very interesting background. He's gone back to religion while not really believing it. But he's a very good sort of English countryside pastor because he is a natural philosopher in his own way. Yeah. We talked before how charming the idea of these old country vikas are. Yes. Often more charming in fiction than reality.

Yeah, I know. I've been even just reading the history of science. Oh yeah. But his links to Trans Earth and Douglas Black, he's kind of discovered and has this incredibly high IQ. The line of, he liked the English, they tended to say sorry a lot, which was understandable given their heritage and the crimes of their ancestors. Excellent line. And he decides to go out and find the cradle of civilization in all these other worlds and gave up, he saw the striving but not the arriving. Maybe it went wrong here and the evolution of mankind is some kind of ghastly cosmic mistake. That's it isn't it? It's trying to find the meaning in something and failing to find the

meaning and finding that incredibly disturbing. meaning in something and failing to find the meaning and finding that incredibly disturbing. Exactly. And then you have like, obviously, how stepping affects evolution, how all these other creatures that have clearly evolved knowing how to step and have therefore not become the step of sapience that humans have or have gone in a different direction as far as sapience is concerned. And wondering if stepping is related to the ability to imagine alternative futures go hunting or go back to that hazel clump. And Lobsang pointing out that if humanity disperses along Earth, will there eventually be different kinds of humans or force cross migration. And Lobsang's conclusion, consciousness shapes reality, which is apparently the central message

of quantum physics, I wouldn't know. We participated in the creation of the datum, our Joker world, and now we've met other minds. It seems they participated in the weaving of the long earth, a subtle and marvelous ensemble, a multiverse created by a community of minds which we are now only now beginning to join. Yeah. Yeah. And. You have this idea then of what is life like with scarcity removed. There's an anthropologist who makes this point of we don't need agriculture, do we need literacy and numeracy even? And then you start seeing why the trolls and elves don't appear to have agriculture, possibly not literacy and numeracy. Yeah. Although you wonder how in that case, things like hunting other sentient beasts still come into play, as in why do the packs of

elves hunt trolls, when it is surely more difficult than hunting, whatever stupid deer they find and whatever. And the question is not answered, please present it. Yeah, it's also just interesting to find out at this point that all of them originated on Datum Earth. Yeah. Because I think you could, before that point, assume that they'd evolved on whichever far flung earth and then made their way towards datum. But no, it seems to be the this central point that comes outwards.

Yeah. And then you have such a long time ago, they don't see it as any kind of ancestral home, obviously. Yeah. And then next to that you have obviously the frustration of the phobics and the non staffers and the people you feel left out. Brian Cowley's whole narrative is maybe the Neanderthals should have taken out homo sapiens so they got to continue. And the way you then start seeing how much the frustration is rooted in fear of change, of difference, of what if things aren't comfortable in the way I am used to them being. Yeah. And in this case, it's very much like, you know, a tiny speck raging against a universe, isn't it? Because it's not, yeah, because it's unstoppable. And there is no immovable force to meet this unstoppable object. Apart from like lobsters stopping first person singular. Yeah, I don't really have a conclusion other than it's a really fascinating theme.

And I like that the book manages to find so much time to dive into all of that in what is a relatively short book in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, yeah, it's not a big old sci-fi slab. Yeah, and also tells a really good story and I think part of that, like just jumping onto the writing side of it, is these are two incredibly prolific writers writing this so I think there is a certain amount of security in writing it of if we don't have time to do it here, we can just do another one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because like those are two writers who know I can make time to do another one. Yeah. Yeah. Although this is, you know, 2010 and onwards. So yeah, they said a certain amount of

slowing down already for practice. I mean, he decided not to do three books a year or whatever anymore. But even so he's like, I've got time for this. Yeah. It's great. It's reassuring. It's wonderful. What about you? Because if I try and make a conclusion, it'll just get my brain falling out. No, it's fine. I just, I got a bit emotional emotional about the continued theme of people helping people. The which kind of came to its zenith, its apex, whatever. Do I mean zenith? It's apex at the end. Oddly enough, when somebody is trying to manage its bluff an entire time with a nuke, after being able to get through this wall of, no, everything's fine, I worry about it. Yeah.

The mantra of step and help, step and help, step and help works so incredibly effectively that people are in comas, that babies in incubators, that disabled people, that phobics, that everybody, almost everyone, we think, oh, that's the idea we're getting here, get saved. I expect we might find out otherwise in the next book, I can't remember. Yeah. Oh, that, sorry, just quickly, that was something I meant to mention and obviously cut from my notes somewhere, but you mentioned with happy landings, the witness of the sieve, the difference here in the disabled people and everything helped and don't make it to happy landings.

Yeah. So it's a good point actually. Yeah, yeah, there is a humanity and again, it's helping people who need help. It's what makes humanity and it's helping an injured person and helping a disabled person. It's not about a reward. And it's this macro version of what Joshua did in the first part of the book as well, which I like the kind of neatness of it. It's a different, obviously a very different kind of disaster, much bigger, much scarier, but it, everybody does seem to have this, almost everybody seems to have this instinct to help. And I think that's true. And you read it and you know, I mean, I spend too much time reading about disasters. It does seem to be almost universal. It's helping.

Yeah, in these times of disaster, in times of emergency, people help people. It's just instinct. Yeah, if you look at the stories from Hurricane Katrina, from the Boxing Day tsunami. Yeah, and almost always when you get government, police, whatever involved, they interfere. With the helping. Yeah, not necessarily on an individual level, as know, as much as ACAB, et cetera. Yeah. There are always stories of first responders, police and otherwise being incredibly brave and helping and that's, that is, it's human instinct.

But yeah, you get, and I think in this case, corporations, government intervention is the looming big bad. But yeah, no, I just really liked it. I love the step and help, step and help that that made me feel a bit emotional. It makes itself into a slogan straight away and that it does you say that it works. Yeah, I also thought that the kind of implied harm it could do when Joshua was talking about what he could have accidentally done by trying to help the lollipop person.

Yeah, he might have actually killed her. Yeah, they care for their ill if I'd have opened her up, the mother wouldn't have survived the wound I've inflicted. Lob sang murmured, you weren't to know you tried your best now come home. But it's yeah, this this I underestimated another intelligence species and therefore nearly killed them. Yeah, and that that's a very real learning moment for for him, obviously. Yeah, I don't really have for a talking point. I don't have a lot of talking for him, obviously. I don't really have, for a talking point, I don't have a lot of talking to do about it. I just thought this book left me

with a lot more good feelings than it did bad about humanity, which is unusual for a sci-fi. Gisela Mast, MP, MP3 I think it's great that there is this universal constant because the sapience and true sapience seems to be, in this book at least, largely defined by caring. And then this ultimate end to the book being helping. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a very practical thing, of course, and Baxter and a lot of his books, but a practical thing is, you know, the witches see someone who needs help, they help them. Yeah, exactly. You do what you see them do. They help them. You just do it. Man asks for help, you help them. Yeah, exactly. You do what you see someone needs help, they help them.

You just do it. Man asks for help, you help them. But in an exaggerated Canadian accent. Yeah, I'm not going to try and do it. Not even a tiny attempt. I want to watch the letter Kenny again. But before that, Francine, do you have an obscure reference for me? I do. I thought I'd just quickly look into the whole twine and threine thing. Yes.

Because the mark threine was apparently ready to go. Yeah. Did they call it threin or twain or trine in the book? I would say threin. Is it spelled that way? Oh, no, it is trine actually in the book. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, no, I thought you said threin for some reason. Because that's what I found. But yeah, trine, thrine. Basically, the only answer I could find under a quick bit of research was in the English language stack exchange. Somebody asking, is there a similar word to twain but meaning three instead of two? I'd like to split something into three parts. Can I cleave it into twain but into three basically? And one of the answers, thrine would be the short answer, long answer, it

depends, middle English twain spelt as we spell it now is just one of the 40 something spellings of the word. But it seems like threin or thrin, trin, threen, or lots of different spellings there. It sees much less overall use, but I believe the first two of the following instances contain the usage we're looking for. Burst in Thrine from 1400 or 1300s. So his heart burst in Thrine. Lovely. And then in Thrine, his goods did he split. That's another one from around the same time. And the one he's not sure about he might have split his lands in Thrain again. So that's just quite interesting, Twine Thrain. I want to know now if there's more. Is there one for splitting to four? Can I cleave something in four?

Or five. Or five. In how many parts can I cleave something? Well, it depends on how sharp your knife is. Where are you using a knife? I'm assuming you're using a cleaver. A cleaver, an axe, something. A mental note, etymology of cleave slash cleaver. Yes. Add that to my list.

We need one of those audio memo. Yes. I just feel like it's going to be more satisfying than what we currently do, which is write it in a note on our phone. And then never look at that note again until I open up the note and go, why does it just say cleave? Anyway, there's a poorly explained off but there we are. There it is.

Delighted by it nonetheless. Right, I think that's everything we're going to say about the Long Earth. We are officially taking August off but unofficially I'm assuming we'll be back with bonus stuff for all of you dear listeners and some extra bonus stuff for our dear patrons. We'll be back properly in September in which we will be talking about the next book in the Long Earth series, The Long War. What is it good for? In the meantime, of course, dear listeners, you can join our Discord, there's a link down below. Follow us on Instagram at the true show I make you feel, on Blue Sky I make you feel, part on Facebook at the true show I make you feel, our subreddit r slash ttsmyf, email us your thoughts, queries, castle snacks And until next time, dear listener, don't let us detain you.

You're not signing off for the last line? No, because I forgot that that's something I do. Also, I think the last line was like lobsang on the phone. Yeah, that's not a great ending line.