The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - 69: Hogfather Pt 2 (Wassailutions)

Episode Date: December 13, 2021

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan and Francine Carrel, read and recap every book from Sir Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series in chronological order. This week, Part 2 of our recap of “Hogfather”. What Fun! Chins Up & Smiling Faces! Shall We Play A Lovely Game?!Find us on the internet:Twitter: @MakeYeFretPodInstagram: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretFacebook: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: [e-mail]: www.patreon.com/thetruthshallmakeyefretWant to follow your hosts and their internet doings? Follow Joanna on twitter @joannahagan and follow Francine @francibambi Things we blathered on about:My Chemical Romance - All I Want for Christmas Is You - YouTubeLocally-curved geometry generates bending cracks in the African elephant skin - Nature CommunicationsWren Day - Smithsonian Mag King of the Bean - The Free Dictionary Mistletoe Traditions - mistletoe.orgRitual and revelry, the story of wassailing - National TrustGeorge's Marvellous Medicine - Roald DahlAntonymic Misinterpretation / X Implies the Existence of Y - Know Your MemeAsafoetida - BBC Good FoodMusic: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.com 

and breathe. I have been in a ridiculously shit mood all day, which culminated in the amazing catching the cardigan in the door and falling over and landing on my arse thing. So my bum hurts, that's how I'm feeling. It was such a weird set of emotions to experience in one go because there was the cardigan in the door handle rage, obviously, combined with just that I've already been in a shit mood and now I'm in pain and therefore I am sad, combined with this is so ridiculous I can't stop laughing. It was a very intense try out of emotions to feel, especially as someone who rarely experiences one emotion a day. I don't know, you usually find something to be angry at, don't you? Well, I don't really think of anger as an emotion so much as a base level.

Now, Francine, don't be reverse sexist. The devil, I won't. I just mean that I'm generally a very grumpy person, so I feel like anger's not really like an emotion so much as sort of where I'm starting from. Right, sure. Yeah, that makes sense. Also, I live in the UK and the news exists, so I feel like we're all kind of starting from that point at the moment. Not to first world problems us, but at least it's just a normal shit at the moment. Yeah, good point. I say that. Are we in lockdown again yet? I haven't looked at it since lunchtime. We're in plan B. I hear Boots is going to have to sell that cheaper. So plan B, that just got announced at six o'clock this evening for listeners. If this goes in,

we're recording on Wednesday before this comes out, so obviously this will all have changed by the time this is released. Currently, the Queen is still alive, but fingers crossed. I'm confirmed through primary sources. No, I haven't actually physically checked where she is in the metamorphosis. Anyway, plan B is mandatory masks almost everywhere, but not in hospitality venues, which makes perfect sense. So after wearing a mask in the shop, at a gig, at a theater, at a cinema, but not in the pub where drunk people expect to rate on each other. I mean, I guess it always seemed a bit stupid in the pub and restaurants anyway, because as soon as you sat down, you took them off and it's not like standing

up made you more virulent. Oh no, I'm fully aware. Everything is just silly. What's the thing? Oh, vaccine passports now for shows, gigs, that sort of thing. Do I have to get one of those? It's just an NHS app, and it'll automatically be connected to your NHS number. I'm supposed to be going- Thank you for doing the news for me. That's cool. Oh, and work from home from Monday. Sorry, I should have probably started with that, because that's the one that affects you the most, since you don't really go places. What do you mean I don't go to gigs every night? And what was the other thing? Vaccine passports and masks, yeah. Yeah, apparently. I'm always running around maskless in huge events. I don't know what you mean.

I'm supposed to be attending an event for my freelance thing tomorrow, and the venue wanted to cancel, but it's going ahead. They've really restricted the amount of spectators that were allowed. I'm supposed to be live streaming this thing. My client slash boss is very, very determined to act like nothing's wrong. I don't think he's going to enforce work from home. Blind. Yeah. I don't think he's even going to- I mean, there's not many people. It's a very small company, and out of the small company, there's only one or two who could potentially work from home, but I think they just won't. That's the thing, yeah. I technically probably had to go into the office twice between now and

Christmas. I can't get out of this week, but after that, I won't be in the office again until January. Yeah. But I'm guessing for you, that means, depending on how insistent your bosses are on enforcing it. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. I'll check my emails after this. Well, we're still pretty near the beginning of December, so I feel like more restrictions could still come in between now and tomorrow. Yeah. I'm just mentally rescheduling some meetings in my head, which I should probably stop doing because we're doing something else more fun. Right. Yeah. The work from home order is really going to affect the podcast

that we haven't recorded in the same room since Equal Rights. No, Good Omens. We did Good Omens between Equal Rights and Mort. Yeah. I think that was the last one, and then we went into- Yeah, January, wasn't it? No February, whatever it was. Yeah. The point is, we haven't recorded together for a while. No. I miss you. Not only because it's much easier for me to edit it like this. But that is- I miss you too. But like Coffee Saturday before you'll get locked down, yeah. Yeah. Let's do Coffee on Saturday. All right. I'd rather not repeat how we celebrated Christmas last year under dubious restrictions,

which was the three of us- Oh, dubious restrictions. Fantastic band name, writing that down. Yes. Which was the three of us freezing our arses off on my balcony, which has no lighting trying to- Is that a year ago? That was a year ago, trying to huddle under a single umbrella and open our Christmas presents in the dark. I'm really quite upset by the fact two years has passed since all this kicked up. Not quite two years. Nearly. I know it's a bit old hat to even mention it now, but it really does feel like two years has dissolved. Yeah. Washed away like tears in the rain. All right. That's not- I was trying to make it more COVID-appropriate, but I couldn't think of anything. It wasn't gross.

Yeah. No, that's fair. Let's not talk about snot on the podcast. Yeah. I already managed to get expectorating, which I'm- by the way, you didn't even like acknowledge that. I was very proud of that. Oh, fact what? What? I just- I managed to get the word expectorating. I never get into that- into conversation as often as I'd like. Oh, I don't remember it. I'm sorry. What did you say that? That people do it to each other in pubs? Oh, sure. Please take that one out of context. People- it's time stamping that. Yeah. Good. Well, apart from all the infuriating things that have happened to you today, stepping back,

looking at the slightly bigger picture, but not too big a picture because then we get into the national news stuff. Yeah, let's not do that. Find the nice blurry distance and tell me about something nice. Oh, my Christmas lights are up. Yes, they are. Tinkly, tinkly, tinkly. You can't see many of them in this video. I'm not trying to put anything up yet. And I've started making my dress to wear on Christmas. Yeah, you show me the fabric. Very, very pretty. Yes, I found the pattern. What kind of cut? It's going to be like an off the shoulder, so it kind of- it sits here and then comes like here, which I thought would look really cute till I started designing the pattern and fuck me. That was a ballache. There was some maths.

Oh, I'm sorry. To figure out the fucking downward curve of my own tit. You could do with a hex, although we do have calculators, don't we? I do have calculators. I managed it. And then I made a twirl based on the very carefully, mathematically calculated pattern I'd made. And I fucked that up massively. So, what are those biscuits called that are like tubes of- Twirl. Twirl, okay. It's twirl for biscuits, twirl for a knockup dress. How do you spell that one? T-O-I-L-E, I think.

And teal is T-U-I-L-L-E? Yes, twirl. Okay, good. Don't get them mixed up. And the fancy layered pastry thing is a mifui. Mifui, mifui. Mifui. Oh, a really fancy one. Mifui, mifui. They foy. Mifui to you foy. We hang-glided. We did.

But yes, so that's some better news. I'm making a nice dress and I didn't really think about it when I thought about using this fabric. I just thought, oh, that's nice fabric, but it's clearly Christmasy. I'll make a nice Christmas dress. And then I started cutting it and I looked over to the thing where I keep my iron and my cutting stuff, which is also on the bottom row of that little bar cart, where I keep all my stuff for dressing the table and realise that my blue placemats and gold snowflake placemats mean that I'm going to be dressed to match my table on Christmas day. Oh, I thought it was deliberate.

No, I didn't go out and buy fabric that matched my table. It's just I have this fabric and the blue and gold stuff and now it's happening. Good, I'm glad. I'm also trying to make a TikTok of me making my dress. I need to- What song are you going to put it to? I don't know. That's not one of the terrible tingly ones you have to put for business. Do it like-

I feel like it needs to be Christmasy, but I'm thinking like, can I come home and romance all I want for Christmas is you Christmasy. Perfect, there you go. Or maybe it's cold outside, but Tom Jones and Sarah's Matthews version. No, because then you'll get Gen Z whingeing about it being rapey. Oh, no, right. Oh, no, I'm too old now, sorry. I've given up. The only baby it's cold outside discourse, and I already tweeted about this,

is why is Tom Jones and Sarah's Matthews version the best one? And the answer is the video, which gave me a queer awakening at five years old. I liked it a lot a long time before I'd seen the video, so I think there must also be other reasons. I think it's just Sarah's Matthews. I think it's her voice. Yeah, God, I love her. I think you could have a queer awakening with the voice without even having the visuals.

Yeah, good point. I got my dad's old Christmas playlist out. Listeners, write in. Tell us why you fancy Sarah's Matthews. That is the only discourse we're interested in on the truth shall make you fret. If you fancy Tom Jones, don't tell us that, that's too personal. Yeah, we don't need to. We don't need to.

Look, it's fine. I'm okay with people fancying Tom Jones. I just don't want to shove down my throat. Like, I just don't think they should do it in public. It's the lifestyle, you know? Exactly. And I think you're going to make that choice to be attracted to Tom Jones. You know, you've really got to keep it out of schools.

Yeah. What would children think? Like, how do you explain that to children? People fancying Tom Jones. Oh, no. Right. Okay. Okay.

Jay, I can see this drifting off and we need to get through the podcast because I need to eat. Yeah, good point. Right. Shall we make a podcast? Let's make a podcast. Oh, fancy. I forgot to mention, before we start properly, that it's our 69th episode. Nice.

Okay. I can intro this properly now. Hello and welcome to the Two Shall Make You Fract podcast in which we are reading and recapping every book from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series one at a time in chronological order. I'm Joanna Hagan. And I'm Frithing Carroll. And this is part two of our discussion of Hogfather. Hey, things are getting going.

Plot points are popping. Nice. I will have tweeted this before the episode comes out, possibly even more than 24 hours this time. But we are starting on page 154 in the corgi paperback with the line, don't tie it so tight. And we are ending. Squeak.

We are ending on page 313 with onwards and downwards then. Speaking of that first line, I don't think either of us have nature down anywhere, but can I just express my desire for wrapping paper covered in festive ravens? Yes, yes, you can. I would also enjoy that. On the record. Okay, cool. If someone could get on with that, that'd be really great.

Thank you. I mean, let's be honest, I'll probably just do that. Yeah, good point. I've got so many things I could put off. This seems like a great thing to do. Update. I'm not very good at piano chords. Who knew?

But I can tell you what the chords are if you want to put them into that thing. They can play the tinkly bit on the top. Don't spoil the surprise for the listeners. Before we crack on, note on spoilers. This is a spoiler light podcast, obviously heavy spoilers for the book Hogfather, but we will avoid spoiling any major future events in the Discworld series. And we're saving any and all discussion of the final Discworld novel, The Shepherd's Crown, until we get there.

So you, dear listener, can come on the journey with us. Dragging an invalid god trying not to throw up the whole way. Perfect. I must mention that if you hang future events out the window in winter, they don't spoil. Oh, that's good. I'm thinking about getting a cool box for the patio, actually. I might try putting future events in there. Good.

Right. Do we have anything to follow up on, Francine? No. That was good. That was quick. Thank you. Just general, I've looked at my document and I don't see anything, and that means they can't exist because I don't subscribe to object permanence.

Perfect. But general high listeners, we like you. You're lovely people. Well done. Thank you for being here today. Thank you. You could have been anywhere else. But you're here with us.

Don't think about that too hard. Stay here. It's fine. Stay here. Listen, don't wander off. Stay well. Sit comfortably. You, come back here.

Come back here metaphorical fire. Francine, would you like to tell us what happened previously on The Hogfather? Surely would. Previously on Hogfather. It was the night before Hogswatch, and as goes the song, the city was silent, but something was wrong. Two children slept sweetly while Susan stood guard, meeting all kinds of monsters and hitting them hard.

But the audit is asked for a treacherous gift, and assassins delivered, creating a rift. So Susan's sojourn into orderly lives was brought to an end by a rat with a scythe. Her grandfather, Death, had put on a fake beard, which even for him is a little bit weird, and in a fake tower somewhere out of sight, a maniac cackled with dreadful delight. We can't tie this story up neat with a bow,

but don't tell Death yet. He's enjoying it so. I love so much that you did that. Glingle, glingle. I didn't need to make myself a tongue twister there, but it's one of those things again where I didn't try and read it loud. That's fair. I haven't practiced this summary at all and a lot happens.

Yes, it does. Did you stick to a page? Is the eternal question? Oh, no, I had two lines over. Oh, barely, barely. Also, it's on Google Docs, so the margin's quite large. Oh, yes, the large margins. Yes.

And it all bends on screen size as well, of course. Yes, and I am only using up half my laptop screen. Definitely, doesn't it? No, not even a little bit of France in. That's not how that works, no. We could have just, no, we would have got a tweet. It's fine, gloss over it. So, Joanna, what happens this time?

Well, this time in The Hogfather. Quote, the raven ties on a Robin look as Susan reads The Hogfather's book. Gods may not die, but the last chapter lashes out, and the bone rat suggests a visit to the castle of bones, The Hogfather's home. The rest of it doesn't rhyme at all. I would have been so impressed if you'd done a full page of that. And a bit appalled, honestly, considering I know how busy you've been this week anyway. Meanwhile, chicken wire and medium-dave wonder about the nature of the strange house

in The Stranger Garden they find themselves in, while banjo runs about happy as a clam following tea time like a puppy. At the castle of bones, Susan finds an ogre unconscious in the snow, while at Crumley's Mall, the watch arrived to calm down the grotto as death dolls out a pony and knobby dives into the fray. At the university, Ridcully speculates about mistletoe until Susan interrupts with Billy as the ogre of hangovers in tow. The wizards concoct a horrific hangover cure for the distressed deity,

who somehow survives the imbibing, sending his hangovers back down a link to Bibulus, the indulgent god of wine. A spontaneous incarnation seems to be the reason for the season, as a hair loss fairy works its magic on the dean, and the existence of the eater of socks is posited. Knobby loses his tongue and gains a crossbow after taking a seat on The Hogfather's lap, and death heads off to a different job. As Susan explains her family tree and inherited talents to a temporarily sober

Bibulus, death finds himself meeting a poor little match girl, empty lifetimeer in hand. But he performs a Hogswatch miracle and hands her to Knobby, rather than the angels. At the High Energy Magic Building, Hex goes just a little bit bursa, but after some dried frog pills, the magical machine rallies and manages to explain the nature of implied creation. Death ponders the meaning of Hogswatch as the pencil eater manifests,

and Susan begins to slip into death's character as he slips further out. The god of indigestion drops in, as Bibulus remembers far too many teeth, and the Raven and Rat arrive to speculate about the Tooth Fairy. As towel wasps whizz by, Susan goes looking for Violet. They find Banjo's name in her collection ledger and wonder where the teeth go, as death collects Ernie's soul. An old man with a dinner of beans receives an act of charity from a king, and death intervenes, as Albert reminds him of his duty.

Susan goes to Banjo's place and finds him missing, but there's a half dollar left from the Tooth Fairy and back at death's domain. Susan searches Violet the Tooth Fairy's biography to discover she's been kidnapped and taken to a tall white tower. At a sad shack, death learns more of socioeconomic disappointment and gets unhappy about the state of things as Albert reminisces about a rocking horse. Susan grabs a very sharp sword and heads for somewhere with an overhead sky. Hex posits that spare belief is missing from the Hogfather and being adopted by new household gods.

The wizards argue until the cheerful fairy manifests and gets emotional. Ridcully wants to contact the Hogfather and the wizards head to the library, where an early-to-bed librarian has a stocking hung with anticipation. Finally, Wersailers Wersail until Fowler, Ron and Fellow beggars take over. Death delivers a delicious dinner to the beggars, adopted from a nearby fine dining establishment. It's very well done. I still don't really know what the word Wersail means.

Did you look at that? Wassle. Wassle. I know it's to do with like... Did we look it up last year? Did we do this already? Yeah, probably. Or is this just something I feel like I've googled at some point?

Either I've googled it in a pub at some point, or we googled it on the podcast. I don't retain shit. Listeners, sing us the answer. Wersailers with your... Wersolutions. Hate myself a little bit. Well then, Joanna, I did not clap directly into the microphone for everybody's sake.

I was applauding. So, helicopter and loincloth watch. Binky is taking helicopter duty. Which is good of him. He's a good horse. What is? What a good horse. He's a good horse.

And I feel like there's something in Billy, it's his outfit that implies a hint of loincloth. I think his toga's probably torn up enough. Or he's got a loincloth under the toga. Has happened in the festive spirit. He's got a what? Loancloth under the toga. I don't know.

I feel like he's less likely to have it than most gods. All right. Well, if he doesn't, then Billy doesn't mind. There are scantily dressed young women. Oh yeah, that's definitely a loincloth thing. Loancloth, yeah. And that Tooth Fairy's underwear was hanging around. Yeah?

Hanging around, hanging up. There you go. That's a loincloth. Underwear's definitely a loincloth. Yep. There you go. I'm helping. Thank you, Francine.

And for other things we're keeping track of, librarian sort of kind of explained, but not really? Yeah, it said he was turned into an orangutan, he was an adult. So I guess that at least explains he wasn't always one, but... There's hints of it. We'll allow it. We'll allow it. Yeah, we didn't have the full back story.

But we know it, don't we listeners? We know. If you don't, this is a very odd place to have started. But welcome. But maybe go back a few. Or just read the library. Or just read The Life Fantastic, your phone. Yeah.

So Joanna, quotes yours as first. The path to wisdom does, in fact, begin with a single step. Where people go wrong is in ignoring all the thousands of other steps that come after it. They make the single step of deciding to become one with the universe, and for some reason forget to take the logical next step of living for 70 years on a mountain and a daily bowl of rice and yak butter tea that would give it any kind of meaning. While evidence says that the hotel is paved with good infotensions, they're probably all on first steps.

Do you know what? Kind of surprised you picked that as your quote, because I just because I read that three times trying to pass it, like I get the metaphor. It took me a second. Honestly, I found it really difficult because there were like three or four quotes I liked, and that was just in this section, imagine. I also thought you were going to pick the footnote about ignorance.

Oh, I have that. I think I put that in little bits. I liked Samara. I was going to shoehorn it into characters. Okay. Yeah. But I also didn't want to just read out the entire footnote. But also fun callback because in Eric,

we did learn that the road to hell is definitely indeed paved with good intentions. Oh, yeah. That was a long time ago. That was a very long time ago. That was over a year ago because that was the first episode we recorded when I moved to this flat. There you go. Anyway, what was your quote, Francine?

My quote is a little later on. There's page two and three. I meant, this is how it's supposed to go, master, said Albert. No, you mean this is how it goes. And I'll leave it at that because I think we'll talk more about the subject later. But I just thought that was very good. Next, Jane. At length, to be perfectly honest.

Yeah. So onto characters, onwards and downwards. Onwards and downwards. Or slightly diagonal. Fagely towards. Into another dimension for this first one. We don't know where he is yet, of course. Of course.

Onwards and downwards. The Hogfather. Hogfather. He's old. Old, old, old God. At page 155, we sort of meet, well, his book, The earliest volume seems to be written on a roll of animal skin. And he sort of appears to have been...

Well, the Raven is a very handy exposition machine for putting it all into simple words after some beautiful description where Susan runs her hands over the parchment and feels the smell of snow, the sounds and hooves, and snapper branches in the freezing forest. And then Raven's just like, well, it was your basic winter demiurge. And then you had to find a new roll. Gotta make sure the sun rises. Yeah, gotta make sure the sun rises.

Now, a bit later on, I think Susan's definitely got the picture because he says something like it's all about the red on white, the blood on snow or something. That was Susan who said that, wasn't it? Yeah, which is a much cooler idea of an origin for the Santa outfit than the coca-cola rads. Although without a hat, how will you know it's not just a football game? Listeners, we...

I'm gonna have to cut that out as far to break. Oh, no, leave it in. Just... Marlily wise. Speaking of ridiculous things. This is the mother of... Obviously, we don't meet her, but the mother of Median, Dave and Banjo. And we started getting more and more...

She's sort of vaguely hinted at in the first section as well, but there's a good build-up of sort of a subtle horror around her. Around the woman who mothered Median, Dave and Banjo. Very unique characters, their own. But I also like this particularly polite way of talking about her. This... She was very straight lady, tough but fair. I remember that time she strangled Glossy Ron with his own leg.

Yeah, for sure. I'm not gonna offend you, but let's not. Let's not. Yeah, we'll use insinuations rather than... And the sort of lovely line of... It was a very lovely funeral, very respectful, that everyone looking so happy but in a sound way, of course. And it kind of makes sense that you're kind of getting the idea that

Banjo falls into line behind violent sorts, which kind of backs this up. Yeah. And then we go to Billius, who's not feeling very well. Poor Billius. Lessons, Cotton, Toga. The Oh God of Hangovers, who manifests around the Castle of Bones for some reason. Yep. Which, apart from plot-wise, doesn't make any sense,

because all the other things manifest where people talk about them. Yeah. Ish. But oh well. Yeah. We'll ignore it. It fits in the narrative. Poor boy.

Poor poor boy. He's had a rough time of it. He's got a very sore head. And this is a nice way of using this. I am the spare belief around random gods being created. And then having a handy character to help drive the plot. And again, kind of act as an audience proxy. Ah.

You have frozen. I've connected to the phone's hotspot. Ah. I thought you might have ended up doing that. Which wasn't going to be a possibility, but last night I managed to argue. Are you knitting? Well done.

Anyway, sorry. I was talking about Billius. I really like using this, okay, random household gods and anything we suggest is manifesting thing as a way to bring in a character that can exist. Partly as an audience proxy, because I was talking about last week, the fact that this is a really nicely set up book. It's not clumsy with exposition. And it's readable without having read a bunch of the other disc world.

Having Billius there for Susan to explain things, especially when it comes to death, is really helpful. Yeah. Yeah. And kind of backwards a couple of times as well, isn't it? Like he says a couple of useful bits back. Yeah. Yeah.

The fact that he's sort of so, I'm not sure what the word is, because he's got that whole thing. You can use his character as the defamiliarization technique, because he's technically just kind of floated about in the ether. So, of course, he's not sat on a horse before. Yes. He's the newbie. And then alongside him, of course, we've got a few more.

We've got the Varucanome prepping to pop in. The Varucanome has been kind of building up since the very first book. Not the first book, the first section. Oh, right. There's been hints of, there's a glingal, glingal, glingal, which is the effect happening before the cause. When Ridicully first mentions the Varucanome right at the beginning as he's opening the bathroom up.

And then there's little hints of the Varucanome reading Jack Frost. And it builds up into here. And then you've got, as Hexes explaining this implied creation thing to Ridicully, this is all 2-2-5 in my version. Ridicully's kind of come to the conclusion, if there's a tooth fairy, there has to be a Varucanome. It makes sense, because it's bringing something as opposed to taking something away. It's kind of a balancing.

And I just like this idea of, like, Billius being the counterpart of Bibulus, this idea of the existence of one type of supernatural being slash lair, penit or household god, delete as appropriate. And then we see some of the watch. Well, not minor characters. Nobby's a fairly major watchman. We've got Nobby in a comfortable visit.

It's a nicely comfortable visit again. Yeah, where's the colon gone? Well, colon's probably spending Christmas with his wife. Yeah, I suppose that's true. Visit doesn't drink and isn't out celebrating Hogswatch because they don't really do that as Omnions. No. There might be, he said with a whisper,

special pamphlets for the children. God, I made that way creepier. And Nobby is very willing to work on Hogswatch Eve on the basis that he expects decent tipping, which one of my favorite descriptions of him, even Nobby's ears could look suggestive. What a thought. I listened to some of this instead of reading it this time, by the way, because I've been having to do a bit of commute reading.

Yeah. And obviously, you can't really do that with a book. Nigel Plainer does very good Nobby. Nigel Plainer does some very good voices in the audiobooks. I like Lenny Robinson as well, but he always does the abridged, so that's no good. No, not very useful. The pre-orders are now available for these other ones, and I can use audible credits on them, so I might pre-order a few of them.

I just, I know I won't make time to listen to them. I'm not really a big audio book listener. No, well, I'm not, as I said last week. But this week, I have been listening to someone on my commute, and I kind of forgot about that, although we're working from home now at least. Well, hopefully we won't be next year. Yeah, I didn't have any mobile data on my drive home the other night, and I had to make my own entertainment.

I sang. I sang Christmas carols. That was pretty good. I hit the high note on Oh Holy Nights, though. Nice. It's amazing what you can do with complete lack of audience. I have had God rest you, Mary, gentlemen, stuck in my head almost constantly for like a week now.

It's really annoying because I don't know the words past the first tidings of comfort and joy. I'll let Pentatonix version of that too. I do. That's a good version. Anyway, characters. Yeah, Mrs Whitlow and the fear thereof. Yeah, I know she's not actually here, but I just,

she's another one of my favorite sort of very cool old lady characters, and I enjoy how a feared they are of her. Yes. Oh yes, no, she doesn't like us going downstairs, but she's away. Oh, then it's fine. Screw her. I love the way it's the sort of,

I believe she's gone to her sisters. We certainly don't have steak orders or any sort of housekeeper. I have great respect for the fear Mrs Whitlow can inspire in men's hearts. Luckily, she's on holiday. With her sister. To the laundry. Do you think Mrs Whitlow likes Hwasaling? Yes.

Equally important as a character, possibly even more so, the eater of socks. Yay, tiny little elephant. Tiny little elephant. Do you have an irrelevant, an irrelevant elephant fact for me as he's a little elephant? Not on hand, but if you remind me after the break, I'll drag one up from my notes file. I've always got a couple. I like that you keep irrelevant elephants handy.

Well, they're so often relevant, ironically. Have you seen some of the illustrations people have done of the eater of socks? Yeah, I love it. It's one of the best fanfic, not fanfic fan art subjects. I've got obviously the colouring book with him in. He's the only one I actually bothered colouring. And then. That's more than I managed in the colouring book.

I don't like colouring books. I thought I would. I might give it another go with paints. Don't be quicker. I just, I don't need that sort of thing. I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a fidget. It's a, yeah. Yeah.

I'm not judging those who enjoy them. Kind of seem like a bit. Yeah. Well, I'm a terrible person. I'm just, I'm just, are you judging me for judging? I'm trying to provoke you. That's fair. Shall we talk about ponder stibbins?

Don't yuck people's people's colouring yums. They're weird. They're ponder stibbins. Adding an adjective makes it worse, doesn't it? Ponder stibbins. Ponder stibbins. Ponder stibbins. Let us ponder stibbins.

I am pondering stibbins and his good pal hex. Yay. What a lovely little watsit. Much bigger watsit now. Hex that is not stibbins. I've seen these around the same size. Side note that we learned that hex's data storage is bees. Bees.

Bees. Bees probably right. There's probably quite a lot of data you could keep in a beehive if you were built to read it. I feel like there is actually quite a loss of sensible science there. I really like bees enough that I might start putting some fun bee facts in wherever bees are mentioned. Okay, good. I thought you were going to say get a beehive. I fully support you in your endeavor to add bee facts to the podcast.

I might have to have some supplementary questioning if you decide to put a beehive on the balcony. You were encouraging me to build a forge the other day. That won't sting me on my way into your house. It will when you accidentally trip over and hit it. Yes, all right. Well, in all honesty, Joanna, if you did build an actual forge, I would also question you. Yeah, but it could double as a pizza oven. None of this is on topic.

One of those things I felt I could be encouraging about without any real risk of it happening. It's like virtue signaling, kind of saying. Look how supportive I am in your absolutely impossible desires. Not like getting a bird. Look, that was a very, very brief idea. I am not going to get a bird. I might put more entrails on my balcony to attract some crows. I'll just never forget you saying you wanted a bird because I think it was the first,

like, non-supported thing I'd said after you'd had that horrible summer. I said, don't get a fucking bird. It's very much like Francine is calling me out on my stupidity. Nature is healing. Okay, speaking of stupid ideas, ignorant, a state of not knowing what a pronoun is or how to find the square root of 27.4. This is Ponderings. Five in a bit.

Yeah. I don't know what the square root of 2.4 is. No one can really calculate square roots in their head. And if they say they are, they can, they're lying. Yep. But this is Hex wondering he'd sort of accidentally started this cargo cult thing around Hex and that quite possibly building it in a magical university where the border between real and not real was stretched so thin you could almost see through it meant he'd created something he no longer had any control over.

Yeah. So it's an interesting concept, isn't it? I was, I noted it later, but I don't really have anything to back it up. So let's say now, it's not quite morphic resonances. It's almost backwards from that. It's like if you build something, I don't know. It's like a pleasing idea. Like if you built something in the shape of a library, it would fill up with books or something.

And you can kind of, there's got to be some kind of architectural concept or like city engineering concept that this is, isn't it? Like if you build it, they will come. It's like, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Building things in the right shape for things to happen. Listeners, someone must know what I'm trying to say here. Help me.

Thank you. I also enjoy that Hex is requesting electricity. Yes, but it's so hard to ladle it in there. I like these moments of, you know, they built a giant computer, but electricity doesn't really exist on the disk. And of course it doesn't. They don't know how to use it. Hex is just very pleasing, isn't he?

It's, I think I talked enough last week about how much victory I find Hex. And I still find Ponder very sweet, especially as he's sort of almost beating himself up about the fact that they're waiting for the Hogfather. Oh, yeah. He's trying to be grown up. He's at that age where you're still really trying to be so mature about things before you reach, like, I think it's like a late teens, early 20s thing where you try extra hard to be. Well, I think for us, that was like the height of being really cynical about everything. And now we're back through to the other, I think we've gone through that and out the other side a bit.

That's true. Probably happens a bit later if you're in a university where the average age is 73. Yes, quite possibly. Why am I complete lack of calculations? My reckoning is Ponder's about 25 at this point. Yes, that makes sense. Which to me puts him in university, in university is the equivalent of a late teenager. Speaking of people growing up before our very eyes, we have Susan.

Ooh, nice segue. I thought we'd quickly revisit Susan A because I quite like, as she turns up at the university, Ridd Cully notices that the robe has lace around the bottom and her is a bit more stylish than usual and realizes that it's Susan. And I like that for all she has sensibly matured, she still likes to tweak the look a bit. I'll tell you what, nobody but a supernatural being can walk around for the lace-bottomed touching the floor cloak in the middle of winter and not get ruined. Yep, definitely supernatural.

The cloak is not actually touching the ground. I need to make a cloak. So yes, I enjoy that she's still got that bit of... Is that what you were trying to knit when I went offline for a second there? Yes, a giant cloak. I'm not knitting a giant cloak. Nice. Oh.

There's only so much wool in the world. But I like this idea of she kind of finds herself without... Well, we have this in soul music as well. She slips into death character as he's slipping out of it. But whereas in soul music, it kind of happened all at once. Here it's happening bit by bit. She can feel him gradually sliding over more towards the hogfather, which means she's got to slide over more towards death.

Yeah. It looked like you were wearing really heavy eyeliner. Shadows Billy is not known what a horse is, but he knows what eyeliner is. Look, that's just what happens if you're a god of hangovers. Can you really have a hangover if you don't have eyeliner smeared all over your face? I don't need to hangover to have eyeliner smeared all over my face. No, no. But it's like the umbrella concept, isn't it?

Not all eyeliner smearing is a hangover based, but all hangovers include eyeliner smearing. Even if you think you don't have eyeliner smudged all over your face, listeners, it metaphorically you do. Yes, yes. You have eyeliner on your soul. Ouch. That is absolutely something I would have put in a poem when I was 15 years old.

Yeah, I'm writing that down. Thanks. We should write emo poems one day, not for Christmas. For Hogwarts, because that's not somatic. But at some point, we'll write some bad teenage poetry. Yeah, maybe Valentine's Day, yeah. We meet Violet. Well, we've got Violet Butler the Tooth Fairy.

We meet her boss who's meant to come in. Does he have a name? I didn't notice her name. I didn't spot it, yeah. But this is one of my favourite very well-written bit characters. This is how much you can do in a couple of pages if you're as good a writer as Terry Bratchett and he's Susan being almost hypnotised by the fringe of worried hair

and a small worried voice. And a voice who suggested exactly that here was a man who, at the end of the world, would worry that it would be blamed on him. Oh, no, Charlie. Charlie's his name. Charlie, there you go. Well done. Yes.

He runs Bulk Collection and Dispatch. He sees that it gets on the cart and Ernie signs the GV19 for them. Oh, yes. Yes, we know that. Of course we know that. Of course we know that. And I love that as he's ranting about the fact that Ernie's gone missing and Violet's gone missing and he's had his head turned by $13 and a pretty ankle.

And he gave Susan the stern look of one who, if it was not for the fact that the world needed him, would even now be tiring of painting naked young ladies on a tropical island somewhere. And haven't we all been there? Yes, I'm going to say yes. Uh, then we have the cheerful fairy. The cheerful fairy or bless her. Rainbows and sunsets, that kind of thing.

And the, let's not forget the bluebird of happiness. You look something saying if it was up for me, I don't design a more streamlined, but don't worry, don't worry. The, uh, she's got word games and suggests we go outdoors for her health. Oh yes. She is, I feel bad because the cheerful fairy automatically reminds me of the sort of people I've had to work with occasionally who, without meaning to, were just incredibly patronizing and never want you to look sad.

I'm thinking specifically of a certain retail job I had about 10 years ago. Never work at a department store over Christmas. Okay. It was a bad time, Francine, it was a bad time. But yes, the extra exclamation marks born of a sort of desperate despairing jollity. Yes. These are not the extra exclamation marks of masquerade in a disturbed mind.

So chins up everyone and let's see a lot of bright, shining faces. I love the idea of this manic teeth, teeth wide, eyes wide. Teeth wide, teeth wide, teeth wide, eyes wide. We all fall down, no. But I do, I feel sorry for her. She's, uh, she's very sad and, and, and damp. She's like, Julie Andrews gone wrong. Yes.

She's Julie Andrews. And then Professor Eutonyam accidentally added an extra ingredient to the concoction. Sorry. I'm not sure why the powerful, Powerpuff Girls reference sneak, snuck itself in there. And then yes, all the sailors and beggars. Covered them, aren't we? Well, the sailors have very carefully rewritten the words to some potentially controversial songs.

So they're singing about the red rosy hen. And no one's really questioning why, uh, it's greeting the dawn of day. No, no, because we wouldn't. Let's see what we say wrong with the word rooster anyway. No, absolutely not. And yes, the foul old Ron, coffee and Henry Arnold sideways, the duck man, the whole gangs here. And if you haven't got a penny, then no. That's been stuck in my head since I bloody read this as well.

And I was trying to remember what we actually used to sing after, if you haven't got a penny, because there was the not rude version that we used to sing in primary school. If you haven't got a penny, then it. I think we used to pretend to sneeze. It was. Except for me will do. If you haven't got a penny, then God bless you.

Yeah. I think we used to sing a tissue. Bless you. Why? I don't fucking know. You were Catholics. You can just sing God bless you. I don't fucking know.

God damn. I was primary school. Right. But like, come on, Catholics, get it together. I feel like there are bigger problems in the Catholic church than how we saw Christmas is coming. The goose is getting fat. All right.

Apart from aqueducts. Well, the music's terrible. They need to, uh, they need to update it somewhat. I've got a. Oh, bollocks is it? Have you ever fucking been to a Methodist service? I used to go to Methodist church. They've got weird hints.

Oh, no. I was just leading up to doing a Tom Leroy reference. Oh, sorry. I have a modest example here. It's called the Vatican rag. Anyway, sorry. Do you want to reflect? Do you want to reflect on locations?

Make a cross on your abdomen. The castle of bones. I moved us on. I moved us on, Joanna. Don't go back after I moved us on. The castle of bones. We visit the castle of bones where the hog father lives. Rackets, rest in peace.

Well, yeah, we did visit the castle of bones, and then it collapsed according to narrative convention. Yeah. Well, at least that's how it would have wanted it. I feel like structurally. I like doing what it loved. Yes. Being narratively convenient.

I like the idea that you have this Santa figure with this led pulled by pigs. So, of course, he lives in a castle of bones, and that these poor illustrators down the years have had to try and make a castle of bones look jolly. But it's actually made of ice. Yes. If only they'd known.

But it's still like Superman. Yes. He has a castle of ice, doesn't he? Yes. The fortress of solitude. Yeah, that's what I thought. But it looks bony enough to be called the castle of bones. Yeah, yeah, well, well, anything sounds sinister

if you say it in that voice. The castle of bones. It's all about tone. It's all about tone when you talk about the castle of bones. And now from the castle of bones on to death's domain. Death's domain. Which we didn't really need to mention, but I wanted to simply because of this rather fantastic run on sentence.

Death lived in a black world where nothing was alive and everything was dark and his great library only had dust and cobwebs because he'd created them for effect and there was never any sun in the sky and the air never moved and he had an umbrella stand. That was nearly my quote. Cool. He also has skeletal fish, which I didn't think me knew before.

Skeleton fish. I feel like the skeletal fish are a little bit part of a foreshadowing for when we go to a new location next week, like it's a parallel. If I remember, I will. I will follow that up when we talk about stuff next week. Okay. Cool. Cool.

Cool. Fish parallel. Remember it. Fish parallels. Elephants. Jesus. Yeah, I know. Everywhere.

Everywhere. Again. Yeah. I'm sorry. Did you know that elephants like foalty skin helps cool them down because it can retain water? Like when they wash themselves, cool themselves down. They can store.

Well, not store, but you know, water stays in the folds and helps cool them down. That is an elephant fact. Thank you for that irrelevant elephant. Looks right. Welcome. And now onto little bits we liked. Little bits we liked.

Shall we talk about some solstice traditions? Yeah, I have a feeling this isn't actually a little bit, Joanna. I will go through it quickly. Having looked at your notes briefly. First off, I like that there's a small vestibule, arch chancellor bowls, remembrance. An extant bequest plays for one small current bun and one copper penny to be placed on a high stone shelf on one wall every second Wednesday.

Yeah, don't you do that? I don't have room for it. I thought that was pretty obvious reference to like a British tradition. I don't have a vestibule, Francine. I don't know. Gosh, sorry. I've spoken to the doctor about it. But I like this.

If you don't have a vestibule, how do you stay warm in the winter? I don't. I'm very cold. The ceremony still carries on. Yes, well, in vestibule, sorry. If you leave off traditions because you don't know why they started, you'd be no better than a foreigner. So I thought I'd look at some of the traditions

that we don't know what they are or why they started. So according to the Raven, some people on the ramp tops, kill a ren at Hogswatch and walk around from house to house singing about it. True. This is real. It's an old Irish tradition. It takes place on Boxing Day, which is also St Stephen's Day. So originally, a group of small boys would hunt for a ren, chase it until it dies,

tie it to a top of a pole or a holly bush decorated with ribbons. And then early in the morning on Boxing Day, they'd carry it from house to house like a weird penny for the Guy tradition. A horrible tradition. Yep. There's lots of theories. Obviously, the actual ren killing bit doesn't take place anymore, but this kind of walking around house to house on Boxing Day morning,

singing for a penny thing still sometimes does. A little villages and things. One of the theories is that it exists because St Stephen hiding from his enemies in a bush was betrayed by a chassering ren. Sounds like an excuse to make after you've killed a little ren. Another legend is that during the Viking raids of the 700s, Irish soldiers were betrayed by a ren as they were sneaking up on a Viking camp. I think it's more likely that Pratchett had it right,

and they just thought it was an easy bird to kill. Well, yeah. I mean, I would rather fight a ren than an eagle, but also, ren's are more common than eagles in Ireland. Are they? I believe so. Are you sure about that? Well, now I'm doubting it.

Thank you, Francine. I'm pretty sure you're right. Yeah, no, that sounds right. That sounds like one of those like QI facts, though, doesn't it? It's like, actually, the ren is now an endangered species in Ireland, whereas the Irish eagle is the biggest minority population in Dublin. Yes, and a popular extort to the United States of America, who are themselves running out of their patriotic eagles.

Are they? Yes, I don't fucking know, Francine. Oh, sorry. King of the Bean. Did you know that the scientific name for a ren is a troglodyte day? Troglodyte day. Same root as troglodyte, anyway. King of the Bean.

Why? That didn't even scam. Why would you put that back in my head? You monster. You festive monster. You there in your Santa hat pretending to be all good cheer and happy fairy. Really, really, you're getting songs stuck in people's head, Gremlin, which I didn't write down on my things later, but that's a good one.

That's a good one. I like that. OK, so the king. Could do with the snappier name. I went a bit BS Johnson there. Oh, no, you went a bit Leonard De Querm. He's the one who did inventions that can't name them. Right, King of the Bloody Bean.

King of the Bloody Bean. It's a 12th night tradition. So the final night of Christmas. A bean would be baked into a cake, and whoever found it would be king for the night. And this was never a thing where that person would then be chased down in the snow and sacrificed as far as I can find. It was sort of a fun party thing.

Of course he can't find it. They didn't live to write it down. It was only medieval times. They had pens. So it'd be done at parties. It kept being celebrated all across Europe as late as like the 19th or earlier 20th century. Sometimes there would also be a cake for the women with a pea baked into it, and then the woman would be queen, or sometimes the king would choose a queen.

Women can't cope with beans. They have to have peas. Not under mattresses, though, Francine. Never under a mattress. Such an indelicate legume, the bean. Not like a nice feminine pea. Fuck sake. I felt like this is not the feminist crisis to have today.

Of course, feminine pea is the tagline of the shiwi. Yes, of course. And the king of the bean would be like a sort of master of ceremonies for a gathering or a party. He would be given a silly crown and lead parlor games and things, especially as we get into like 19th, 20th century. But there's a French saying. Il a trouvé la fève au gâteau.

He found the bean in the cake. And that's still commonly used in France today to mean he's had some good luck. He's found the bean in the cake. Nice. So I like that one. I did have a quick look into the origins of mistletoe. Oh, yeah. I believe it symbolises greenery and white berries, am I right?

Well, so the whole idea of it being evergreen, potentially a druidic tradition, it's a fertility symbol. And there's also... The druids did it. Well, this is the thing, because it's a bit bollocks of whether or not druids did it, because everyone... King Victorians muddying up the history. Because Victorians got really into druids and just made up a load of bollocks.

There was this huge druidic resurgence in like the 18th and 19th century. We have covered it at length. I have, because it's one of my favourite things. The earlier tradition of kissing under the mistletoe, like I said, it was kind of a fertility thing. And a berry should be plucked off the mistletoe after each kiss. So when it runs out of berries, you stop kissing under it. Don't eat it.

It's poisonous. It's also sung about... There's a folk song, Green Grow the Rushes O. And it sort of thought of as a song about the apostles. Talks about them clothed, all in green. All the apostles. The reason I bring this up is in the section about where it's been discussed. Riddicully, and I can't remember which of the professors he's discussing it with.

One of the professors mentioned old folk songs. And one of the professors mentioned he likes the lily white boys, which seems to be a reference to Green Grow the Rushes O, because one of the final lines is, two, two, the lily white boys clothed all in green, oh. But I thought that was a nice thing to note, considering medium Dave and Banjo are the lily white boys. What festive chaps they are.

What festive chaps they are. Of course, the Banjo is the most festive of instruments. Yes, Francine. Twang-lang-lang-dingle bells. I like the glockenspiel, maybe has more of a hold on festivity. And is more fun to say. Glockenspiel. Glockenspiel.

Aren't they Banjo, Banjo's? They're both fun in different ways. All right. Different ways. I wouldn't call the Banjo festive. And then I just enjoy in the wizards talking about all the stupid family Christmas traditions and start arguing about who did what and the weird class discrepancies of whether you open your presents in the morning or wait to eat them after dinner.

And whether you'd hang out big pillowcases. And we'd all go and find the object and then we'd have a row. It was a slipper. We'd probably hunt the slipper. And I feel sorry for Ridcully in this section, because he doesn't really get it. They're all arguing about these horrible Christmases they had and Ridcully was like, you always thought paper hats lent an air of festive jollity.

And you feel sorry for Ridcully in this bit. It's like it's in addition to his horrible like, I never get hangover signed or everything character. I know. But I think is, I think because I side with Ridcully a bit. I mean, I don't have lots of fond memories of family Christmases because they were middle class Catholics. I do quite enjoy things like sticking on a silly hat from a cracker

and getting wholeheartedly into all the nonsense, getting excited about opening presents. Christmas morning memories is with you. And we had an earth gun fight. We had an earth gun fight and we had cream eggs because we were appalled. We'd found them in the shop before Christmas. So everyone got a cream egg. Yeah.

And you did also cook like a really nice breakfast. I can't even remember what I cooked for breakfast that day. I think it was salmon and eggs on toast. That's what I usually do for Christmas. That's what I shall have for Christmas this year. Me too. Made it with breakfast. Anyway, yes.

So I sort of feel sorry for Ridcully because I get quite enthusiastic about these silly things like who ray Johnny Tinker and chase my neighbour up the passage. I also like he always very carefully read the messages on Hogs Watch cards and found time for a few kind thoughts about the sender. So anyway, hangover cures. Hangover cures. You pointed out this bit is reminiscent of George's Marvelous Medicine. I did.

I did because it is. The book came out in 1981, George's Marvelous Medicine. So I reckon it's, I reckon there's some nods in there. There's some inspiration. Yeah. I found a little extract from it, which I'll just read a tiny bit of. There was a round cardboard carton labeled flea powder for dogs. Keep well away from the dog's food, it said.

Because this powder, if eaten, will make the dog explode. Good, said George, pouring it all into the saucepan. Was one of my favourite books as a kitty wink. I enjoy the Dean just sort of, why don't we mix up absolutely everything and see what happens? Yep. That's how science works. I'm glad my go-to hangover cure didn't end up in there. What was that?

A cheeseburger, a diet coke, and then a nap. The nap is really essential. Hard to put a nap into the saucepan. And the cheeseburger, to be honest. The diet coke's probably all right. I think that whatever that was was so core stick it would dissolve the cheeseburger. Yeah, that's a very good point. Now I want a cheeseburger.

I'm not even hungover. The expected reaction of the dancing around breathing fire was also a bit rolled up, but also obviously every kind of silly cartoon or yeah. I also like the way the wizards are all like, it's the wow wow sauce is going in. And then all thinking they're really silly and then. Yep. Speaking of wizardly nonsense.

Wizardly nonsense. Wizardly nonsense. You know, I like a bit of wizard dialogue, but the first appearance as far as I can tell were my favorite types of wizardly exchange. I've got subgenres. This sock creature. Does it just steal them or does it eat them?

Said the senior wrangler. Valuable contribution. That man said ridcally, giving up on the dean. Right, pass the word along. No one is to look like a sock, understood? Just anything with comma, that man, makes me very pleased. That tastes that man. I do enjoy any that manning.

Yep. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, that man. Oh, good superheroing that man. Yep. Yep. And that's all I had to say on that. I've been noticing as we go through, there's some really nice little set up and payoff bits.

One of them being banjo getting punched in the first section and we realized that T-Time wasn't just punching him for the sake of it. He was loosening a tooth so they could get the tooth fairy. Oh, yeah. And that's just a really nice little connection. There's going to be loads more in the next section, but that's one of the big ones I noticed. Especially we sort of find banjos.

Oh, Christ. The dog agrees with me. That we see Banjo's name in Violet's book before we go to Banjo's house, Banjo's room. Which I didn't mention, but oh, Banjo's room where he's got the Seaspot Run book with the bookmark very carefully placed between page four and five. Oh, he's too cute.

Oh, he's too cute. He is too cute. So somebody who's really quite terrifying. And all the build up of the place where they've ended up, where Susan is going, this place with an overhead sky, and what it looks like is such a fun little horror thread to be running through, especially in this middle section. We don't really, but from one scene, we don't really have any time with tea time

or any time with what they're doing. Yeah. It's all really focused around the wizards and this extra belief and the sort of layers and planets. But to have that little thread of Susan chasing and it building up to this place is really satisfying. Yeah. It's just this reminder of the kind of darker undertones of the book.

Yes. And interestingly enough, a reminder in the form of a children's drawing. Yes. And you mentioned another small setup on page 285. Was that the sword? Yes, Joanna. It is the sword. When Susan brings out the sword and the Oh God says,

that looks dangerous. And Susan says, I hope so. That's good. So a little call back to the thingy. Couldn't help yourself, could you? I'm sorry, Francine. What have I done? Jumped in as I was saying the sentence.

Swarred. Swarred. Swarred. Swarred. Death stove maneuver. I forgot how to start a sentence. Death stove maneuver. I liked because he is trying to get out of the little

chimney thing he's had to go to. And the way he got out was very difficult to describe, at least without folding the page, which is a little through the fourth wall and also a very good way of describing something we're also saying it was very difficult to describe. That was an excellent little bit of writing, wasn't it? That was a little bit that we liked. That was a little bit that we liked.

And the last one is the banana fish, which is just very pleasing on the subject of, you know, it's not a legume, it's a pea, which is the old. Funnily enough, it's not actually a fruit set. Really? Botanically, it's a type of fish. According to my theory, it's clodistically associated with crullian pipefish there, which of course is also yellow and goes around bunches or shoals,

which is very funny and also reminds me of one of my favorite jokes, which is what's yellow and dangerous? What? Shark infested custard. It reminded me of me a little bit because I have a somewhat sometimes irritating tendency to come out with a, well, actually. About bananas especially, yeah. Fruit in general.

Do you not remember when I accidentally gave a PowerPoint presentation on the quints? No, it was the first time we met up after the very strict lockdown. We were sitting on a bench in the rain with Callum. And we were eating cake pie jam. Yep. That's a nice memory. You told us all about quints. It was very interesting, which says a lot about Joanna, really.

Yeah, shit like this I can fucking retain, but did we ask this question on the podcast last year? Not a chance. No. And with that, should we go on to the bigger stuff? Yeah, maybe. Yeah, let's talk about death. That seems like what we usually do next.

That is what we usually do next. Can't confirm for 100%. Death gets carried away, does he? By who? By himself and also a sled drawn by pigs. Happens to the best of us. We see this happening in this section of the book, where Death's getting really taken up with this idea of being the hogfather.

But watching it happen and watching him catch hold of this idea really slowly and how it's paralleled with the comments Susan makes about him, and then it runs through the section as a metaphor. So Susan, as she's trying to explain death, the anthropomorphic personification, not the concept of death, she's trying to explain him to Billius and explain how he thinks. And so she says, how would you make sure everyone in the world was fed? And Billius says, you've got to think about political systems

and cultivation of arable land. And she says, well, yes, but he'd just give everyone a good meal. Yes. And then you watch him. Which is of course the base of a post-scastry economy. No, sorry, it's fine, I won't jump in. There is a whole other route I could have gone down, but I thought I'd stick to talking about death.

Yeah, more my bag anyway, isn't it really? Yeah. And it starts with this moment of death. He's come away from the mall, he's feeling really great about what he's done. And that's when Albert Hansen, the empty lifetimer, and tells him to go to the little match girl. Yeah.

And he's not, death isn't prepared for it, because it's Hogswatch Night. Yeah. And so he performs his miracle. And he gets to have a miracle. He gets to have a miracle. I'm not saying he shouldn't have done that. That's much nicer than the usual ending to the little match girl,

the story which gave me nightmares as a small child. I don't remember hearing it as a small child. Who gave you that? I had a whole big book of Hans Christian Andersen fairy tales. Ah, of course. The fairy tale obsession started at a young age. The whole big book of dying children, yes. Yeah, there are a lot of dying children,

normally in the cold and alone. I remember reading it young enough that when I saw the Disney Little Mermaid, I was genuinely confused that her feet didn't hurt more, because in the Hans Christian Andersen version, it feels like she's walking on knives. You fucking nerd. Yeah.

I think you watched The Little Mermaid. I don't know, like seven or eight years old. I definitely already read the book of fairy tales a few times. Nice. I learned to read really early, thanks to each peach pear plum. Yeah, I learned to read the Beano book. Nice. Probably says a lot about me.

Anyway, death is sort of... Death is like self-aware enough to know that he's slipping out of character, and he shouldn't be doing everything that he's doing. But he's sticking his fingers in his not ears, because he doesn't really have ears, because he's a skull. Side head holes. Yes.

And going lala lala, because he doesn't want to hear it. He wants to enjoy this. He wants to perform miracles. He wants to be the good guy for once. And he's almost teasing Albert. He says, no sugar-piggy-wiggy for you, Albert. Because Albert's trying to convince him. And he's...

Death is so determined to change things, and with little miracles, and teach people the real meaning of Hogswatch. And Albert sat there challenging him, and saying, well, you know, do you mean the real meaning, where they light a bonfire, and tell it to stop lurking under the horizon, and do a proper day's work?

Or having... Someone having his head chopped off, because he found a bean, all the pigs and cattle's being slaughtered. And, you know, Albert's just... And he's just turning around, and eventually gets to the point where he very sharply has to tell Albert to be more positive. But this then leads to his actions with the peasant

in the hovel, with the king. And that's such a beautifully written scene, where the peasant is so humble, he's terrified to accept this charity from a king. And so, of course, Death's intervention is to tell the king to fuck off, because the man is clearly unhappy. And Albert finds himself tying up loose ends.

But, of course, then Death plans on doing exactly the same thing, to give this guy a huge pound to your food. And it's Albert who has to explain to him what the kind needs if you're going to give him a bunch of food, which is not just give him a good meal, give him everything he needs, give him the stuff that will last. And Death's whole idea of getting carried away

and deciding to feed everybody only works when he has this really, really human tie in Albert who runs around after him, tying up loose ends and making it work. But he just, he cares so much, it's heartbreaking. Yeah, poor Skellington. Poor Skellington. Yeah, there's all sorts of good points about charity

and the use of it, as in not for your own benefit. And this idea of later on, when they've been to, like I said, the very sad shack and the kids aren't getting what they asked for, because they're from a poor family. And Death is pissed off about this difference between naughty and nice and why the rich get the nicer things

and how it's so much easier to be nice if you're rich. And Albert wants to challenge, it should be, however, we won't go into that whole big class distinction. And Death is just so determined to ignore the way the world works and try and improve it while he gets to be this other character for one night. And you can feel this whole underlying thing through the whole section of Death knows

he's going to have to give it up. He knows it can't last. Yeah. And he really understands what Albert is saying and that he shouldn't be doing what he's doing, but he just can't not. It will be hard not to. Oh no, if I was in that position,

I'd be running around doing all sorts of silly shit. Yeah. It's also nice that he gets to make, like the quote I picked, he gets to make his point well, but as well, but it's like, no, no, this is the way it does happen. That's not the way it should happen. Yeah.

Which is true. Of course, it is not fair that rich people get more things. Yeah. And I'm not in any way, just because they're already rich. Defending the point of view or saying, yeah, I just think it's sweet to watch death care in this way. And the fact that you see this whole section of Albert

trying to teach him this lesson that it's really spelled out with what Susan says, you can't just give someone a good meal. It's almost like the defamiliarization tactic again. That's death looking at economic inequality through the alien eyes. It's interesting, isn't it? Because obviously he's seen all of this before, but he hasn't seen it through.

When he's seen it before, he's very much he's been death, which means he has treated everybody the same. Well, he gets to treat everybody equal, of course, but that doesn't mean that the concept of death has, if that makes sense, the fact that they've died early. Yeah. But it's the fact that you see right near the end of this section,

he doesn't get to learn his lesson. He still comes across the beggars and gives them a good meal. Good. Quite right, he. Good old Robin Hood death. So I don't really have a big concluding point to this round. I just think it's... Oh, sorry, you don't need to.

It's good. Yeah, it's a lovely little character arc. It's a very sweet character arc to watch, and I do want to give him a bony hug. Bony on his part, obviously. I'm rather squished. I was going to say, we're going to have to try hard to match the boniness.

Yeah, I don't think I can get there, nor do I want to fucking try. No, no. There's too much cake to be had, Francine. Too much cake. Anyway, should we go on to a happier topic? Should we have fun with concepts? I'm going to cover it in graphite.

Yeah. I've got a pencil instead of a pen today, and I've been just kind of doodling, and then I'm covering graphite. Sense runes, speaking of doodling. Sense runes. Sense runes, the things that you talked about at the beginning where the Hogfather is encapsulated in the braille for the senses.

Yes, and Susan gets the impression of snow. Yeah, and I was thinking, what senses would you get from modern ones that meant Christmas? I think there's something in the crinkle of paper and string and little bits of sticky tape around the edges. I missed the sticky tape. I was going to see how many we matched. I've got rustling paper.

I'm thinking because when you clear away the pile of wrapping paper and there's bits of tape that always get stuck to you. See, to me, it's like the paper on a soft parcel. So like it's got a jumper in or something. It's that kind of... Oh, that crinkle. Yeah. Nice.

I should have thought about this more before we started. Well, in your defence, I only put this in on my lunch break. That's fair. What else do you have? Give me another one. I've got steam. Oh. Lots of steam everywhere coming out of the side of buildings

and off of their stove and in coffee shops and things. Got sleet because, let's be honest. We're in England. And the feeling of being very full. Yes, that's definitely. I think there's something about an echo of pavements as well. Like if you walk through a town that's normally busy on Christmas day and it's the only time you really see it empty.

I remember it feeling weird during the first lockdown, especially I had to go into town for something once. And it felt like Christmas day. I'd never seen the streets I went to. Yeah, and you put the steps go clock instead of thud thud because there's enough room for them to echo. You hear every step. And I think there's something in the steam as well,

particularly the steam on windows. Oh, yeah, yeah. When it's so cold outside and everyone's gathered inside and so the windows steam up and... Yeah, and glasses. Yes, definitely the clinking of glasses, but that's a Wednesday for me. Oh, no, I meant my glasses steaming.

Oh, yeah. But yes, the clinking of glasses. And then the last one I had was coloured, coloured lights. Yes, yeah. Those are nice. I like those. What other concepts are we looking at, Francine? We have the implied existence,

which we've also talked about a little bit, but I had a not relevant enough to go with that bit. But the meme that the... I like how the existence of X implies the existence of Y, which is like there's been a lot of tweets and toddler fights about that for last year or so. Yeah.

So I picked out some of my favourites. Got Hank Green. I like how the existence of fun-sized candy bars implies that normal-sized candy bars are not something to joke about. The phrase basic bitch implies the existence of the acidic bitch. In this essay, I will...

Only two more, I promise. Toxic masculinity implies the existence of... I did it again, masculinity. And hit me, baby, one more time, masculinity. Tag yourself, I'm oops, I did it again. And finally, I think us. Manic pixie dream girl implies the existence of depressive gargoyle nightmare girl.

It me, the girl, but it's only part time, but I'm always a depressive gargoyle. And then finally, finally, last but also least, the little house god slash anthropomorphic personification. Yes. Ah, yeah. So first, a little note on the ones we met today. Sokita, thumbs up.

Yes, agree with that. Towel wasps, three thumbs down. I will grow an extra thumb to further disapprove of these insects. No, no towel wasps, thank you. That is an official statement from The Truth Shall Make You Threat. No eugenics, no towel wasps. Yes, cake. Yes, cake.

Yes, sockita. I'll live without socks if I get a little elephant thing. That's fine. I'll just buy slippers. Yeah. And then I thought, cool, so what other little, what little glingly beings might we have around the house in even more modern times?

Because they were talking about how back in the day, but now. Well, we did mention earlier the getting annoying song stuck in your head fairy. Or we decided that one was a gremlin, didn't we? Speaking of, for some reason, I have had, of all songs, the Maison Derrière song from The Simpsons stuck in my head. Oh, how does that go again? You can close down most of the quickie man

and nobody would care, but the hardened, so long spring fills in the Maison Derrière. Nice. What do you think the little gremlin look like? I feel like. It's a little piano. I was thinking it looks more like a little air pod with wings. Oh, no.

Yes, I like it. And it just flutters in, sits in your ear and puts a random fucking song from The Simpsons episode you haven't seen in a decade and then flutters off again. That makes sense, because how else would it get in your head? Exactly. Airpods. Yes. One of my initial thoughts was coffee splashing fairy.

I'm always fucking spilling coffee everywhere. It does not seem to obey the law of fluid dynamics. So I think there's a little fairy having a bath in my mug at all times. Yeah, that's fair. That sounds about right. Yeah. Feel free to budge in at any point, by the way,

because I've just got a couple of lists there, but I don't want to put you on the spot. I think there are sewing scissors vultures in my flat. They are never where I have left them. Never. These vultures pick them up and put them down again after they can't eat them. Yes, but they definitely swoop and take them,

because I'll put them next to my sewing machine, my little thread-trimmy ones, especially, which also look like a stork, and then I'll sew something and then I'll grab my little thread-trimmy to trim off the machine and they've gone. Bastards. Quite often I'm also sewing vast swaths of fabric and they've actually just got caught up in the fabric somewhere,

but still, vultures. Well, no, the vultures just put them in there. Yeah, yeah. To cover their tracks. Dicks. The vulture tracks. I've got the cable-tangling tit, which is a little bird that weaves nests out of your wires.

Yep. I'm very with you on that one, especially having hung my Christmas lights. And finally, in honor of you, I've added the cardigan sleeve goblin that hooks your sleeves onto door handles and stands again. Well, you catch it and then they're full of rage. Yeah. I don't think I can talk the cardigan sleeve goblin and his little

Yeah, that's right. That's why I did it in your honor. Thank you. I'm honored. That's what I've always wanted. Goblin named after me. Named after your misfortune. If I was going to name a glingly being after you,

it would be a bit nicer. Oh, thank you. It would be the food distraction being trying to think of something, but somebody else goes, ah, yes, but what about a sandwich? I would like to point out that I've been very good today at not derailed us with any food talk. Did you eat before we started?

Yeah, I did. Yeah. I had good. That was a good shout. You've had Pringles. I have had some Pringles. My stomach just started rumbling on cue. I don't think they might pick that up.

I had sea bass with butter beans and chorizo. It was delicious. Nice. Yes. Anyway. Butter beans. Before we go. Butter beans are actually a type of banana.

Common misconception. They're actually an early precursor to the apple, a cousin to quints, if you will. Oh, I will. Thank you. You will, will you? I will. Right, we've gone completely off the rails.

So, Francine, could you obscure reference for Neil, me? I certainly can. When they were worrying that the hangover cure wasn't as explosive as it should be, Ridd Khalidi mentions that they'd had the asa fitida for a while. And it might have gone off or something. Thank you for saying that out loud, because I was wondering how one said it.

Audio book. Yeah. So, as long as Nigel played it, got it right. But I did then have to go back and look up how to spell it in order to Google it. I thought it was going to be some alchemical ingredient, but no. It is, speaking of botanical classifications,

a gum from a variety of giant fennel. It naturally has a strong and pungent smell, rather like rotting garlic, which is where the fetid comes in. Or fetid. Asa fetid. Fetid, fetid. I, okay, do you know what? It doesn't matter.

It's a very useful spice. This is from BBC Good Food. For those who can't or won't eat onion or garlic, as it adds a similar depth and savouriness to food. Indeed, Jane and Brahmin Indians, who were prohibited from eating garlic and onions, which I didn't know, used it a lot in their cooking. It works best when fried for five to 10 seconds in hot oil,

because then its pungency becomes dramatically obvious. So make sure you have a window open and then add other ingredients to stop it from burning. It sounds awful. It sounds like a bad ingredient, to be honest. I really want to try cooking with it. You'd probably be all right, not me. Five seconds.

I don't, I can't deal with that kind of timeframe. And finally, bringing it back to being kind of relevant. Astridia is also a natural defeater of intestinal wind, and Natalin recommends it for inclusion in any and everything that includes lentils or beans. Marvelous. Yes. Full circle, Francine, I love it.

Full bean shape. Full kidney. Full kidney. We've got the full kidney. Is that like top banana? Top banana, full kidney. Eyes wide, teeth wide. And we're all going to have a jolly good time.

Sherrads, anybody? All right, I draw the line at Sherrads. It was bad enough having to play articulate with my drunken aunts. Two words. See, look, you can't help it. You draw the line at Sherrads, I hold up two fingers and you're in.

It's intoxicating. I'm not sure that's the word I'd use, Francine. You can't help yourself, but with guessing games. This is what I was saying earlier with the sword. If there is a chance for you to- I'm sorry. No, no, no. I'm saying you can't help it.

It is a compulsion to guess at guessing games. Very true. Like it is for me to try and read out stupid words whenever I see them, even if you're trying to talk. That's a fatigue. It's a dynamic that works. Speaking of dynamics that works, we're going to leave you now, listeners.

Oh, hilarious, but also true. We do need to go. Francine needs to eat. We will be back next week with the concluding part of Hog Father, and then we'll be back hopefully Christmas Eve with our Hogs Watch Special, where we'll be talking about the screen, the Sky TV adaptation of Hog Father.

Yes. In the meantime, dear listeners- I thought we needed to do that bit as well. Yes. In the meantime, dear listener, you can follow us on Instagram, at The True Shall Make You Freight, on Twitter, at Make You Freight Pod,

on Facebook, at The True Shall Make You Freight. You can join our subreddit community, r slash t t s m y f. Email us your thoughts, queries, castles, snacks, and albatrosses, The True Shall Make You Freight Pod, at gmail.com. Join our Patreon, patreon.com, forward slash The True Shall Make You Freight, and exchange some hard-earned pennies for bonus nonsense.

As I mentioned, we're going to be recording our Hogs Watch Special soon. The Sky TV Hog Father adaptation is available on streaming in the UK on NLTV. If not, I believe the DVD is available worldwide. Also, you have until the 20th of December to get to us, your letters for the Hog Father, any questions you've got for us, any answers you've got for us. Yes, because I know when we're recording it, Francine.

Sorry? Yes, because I know when we're recording it. Please send us your letters to the Hog Father in questions for your dear little co-hosts. And sung answers about we're sailing. And sung answers about we're sailing. Your wha solutions, if you will. Wha solutions, if you will. And in the meantime, dear listener, don't let us detain you.

People do it to each other in pubs.