The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - 9: Equal Rites Pt.3 (Crumbs All Up In There)

Episode Date: January 20, 2020

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan-Young and Francine Carrel, read and recap every book from Sir Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series in chronological order. This week, Part 3 of our recap of “Equal Rites”. Vocal Warm-ups! Coruscate! Confusion about the Universe! Cabbage! Quantum! Sub-Atomic Particles! Scones! Content Warning Misophonia. We do eat on this episode of the podcast (while performing important scientific research). While we’ve made every effort to reduce noise, this may be difficult for those who suffer from Misophonia. The chompy part of the segment starts at 50:40.Find us on the internet:Twitter: @MakeYeFretPodFacebook: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: [e-mail] to follow your hosts and their internet doings? Follow Joanna on twitter @joannahagan and follow Francine @francibambi Things we blathered on about:Illustrated Ocean at the End of the Lane (Wordery) Jörmungandr, the world serpent (Wiki)Yggdrasil, the world tree (Wiki)Albatross! (Youtube)Tag (Wiki) - check out the names and variantsMiriam Margolyes (IMDb)The Sudden Appearance of Hope, by Claire North (Goodreads)/r/BobsBurgersCloud of atoms goes beyond absolute zero (New Scientist)How do you do take your cream tea? (BBC)The Queen Settles Scone Debate on Whether Jam or Cream Should Go FirstGormenghast (series) (Wiki)Music: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.com

Me me me me me. you you you you.berry... men men men men men men men mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana cola mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana mana men, men, men, what do you do before your faith? Um, resist the urge to have a point patiently? Oh, you don't do one of these, uh, what was the other one we had to do? Poff's got a head like a bing bong ball, Poff's got a head like a bing bong ball, Poff's got a head like a bing bong ball, like a bing, like a bing bong ball. Sometimes I do up all the apostle possess an epistle that was psychological that made the girls whistle, but I don't say that, that's more for fun.

Ooh, a parcel. Um, there's an illustrated version of Ocean at the End of the Lane, coming out, or it's out, um, but I haven't got it yet because someone's got it for me for Christmas. Hey, I think they didn't, it brought out a really, really limited illustrated Good Omens as well, but I didn't get that because- I imagine these books cost so much, like that small gods was 43 quid. Um, it's worth it, like, because then the illustrator's gonna give money and stuff. No, I, I, I totally like, I'm not saying what a rip-off I'm saying, no. I don't think the Ocean at the End of the Lane, the Illustrator one's quite as much. Um, the Good Omens, the limited edition illustrated Good Omens with Fancy Slipcase and

stuff was like such a limited print run, it was stupid. Like, I think it was like a hundred quid a copy or something. Yeah, yeah. So I looked at it and I couldn't justify it at the time. Oh well. It was tempting. I'll probably pick one up at some point, because I actually, I, I like looking for these things and collecting and stuff. Yeah. That's also fun, isn't it? Yeah. Well, this is the, so Ben had a bookseller friend who was just able to give me a list of all the first edition Terry Bratchett's, he'd get me, I was like, no, that's not that. I didn't just want to look at a list and pick them and say, I have that one. I like being given them or I like finding them. Getting lost in secondhand bookshops. Yes. It's such good fun, especially when you

lost in secondhand bookshop and you find it and it's run by someone who doesn't know Terry Bratchett that well. So they've just priced it as a fiver in the weird fantasy section. Yeah. Which is how I got my signed first edition paperback of Weird Sisters. That's been a lot harder since Bratchett's death, I must say. Yeah. To be fair, they're still not usually silly like that. I haven't seen one for more than a hundred quid. A hundred quid is a lot of money for a book. But that was like a signed first edition. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I don't usually seek out. In fact, I didn't buy a signed one someone offered me because I wanted to meet him and get it signed myself. And then that never happened. So I now have the one signed one.

But that was, yeah, that was a signed paperback I found for five quid at a book fair. Noice. Yeah. I understand the appeal of collecting them, but I must say personally, the idea of having a signed copy of something for me has always been very much. It was signed because I met them. Yeah. Oh, yeah. This is why I won't seek out more signed copies. It's just nice to have that one because I never got to meet him. Yeah. Whereas like my signed Neil Gaiman book is from when I went to Bath and had a lovely holiday and got to meet Neil Gaiman. Wasn't it a nice holiday? That was a lovely holiday. Even if he then was like a lot closer to us the following night and we shouldn't have gone on the holiday,

we should have waited for the Cambridge signing. Yes. But it was a lovely holiday. It was a lovely holiday. We stopped off at the big cave. Wookie hole. Yes. We ate a lot of cheese. We did eat a lot of cheese. And there was a strange shop with giant automatons. The man gave us pre-Iranian Cheetos. Yeah. And I found that weird Cuba Libre favoured Mike Tyson branded energy drink. Are we sure this happened? No. The more I try and describe that we can pop next door with the Skittles Lane. Yeah. We tried doing darts but you and I had to be taken away from the dartboard because neither of us can throw darts. And then I got Skittles. They're stuck in the Skittles Lane.

Jesus. The more I try and describe that holiday the less I think it genuinely happened. Yeah. Well, should we make a podcast then? Yeah. All right. Let's make a podcast. Hello and welcome to the true show fake brown city. Sorry. I should know not to look at your face. All right. It's fine. I'm not developing a complex or anything. It's not your face. It's the eyebrows reaching your forehead. Why should they read? They're not that high. I'm being enthusiastic for all this now. Okay. I'm prepared now. Hello and welcome to the true show make you frat a podcast in which we're reading and recapping every book from Terry Brouchett's Discworld series one at a time in chronological order. I'm Joanna Hagan Young.

And I'm Francine Carroll. And this is part three of our discussion of equal rights, the third book in the Discworld series and the first feminist you on. Hooray. Yay. Feminism. Notes about spoilers. We are a spoiler like podcast. Obviously major spoilers for equal rights. The book we're on, but we will try and avoid discussing future events in the books and we're saving any discussion of the final book, the shepherd's crown for when we get there. So we can all go on that journey together. You can't provoke me anymore. Journey. I'm over it. Journey. That's fine. Just a small town girl. Oh, I miss rock band. I miss rock band. Right, sorry. Francine, would you like to tell us what happened in the last part of the book?

Sure. Previously on equal rights, our fusion force hero and her definitely a witch companion start their journey to Angmorpork stopping off at the home of Hilda Goat Founders, small town purveyor of contraception and erotic enhancement products. Unfortunately, due to an incident down the pub, Esk ends up stowing away on a barge, briefly using her powers of perception to help out an honest liar and jogging off to join a caravan. Granny follows, aided by a crystal ball and the alarming knowledge that Escarina's staff is distilling power into the young girl. After a shout at the patriarchy, Esk leaves the caravan and Granny catches up. They complete their journey by air and take up residence in the shabiest part of a pretty shady city.

Esk is laughed out of a boys only club, but Granny tells her about the back door. In case I didn't pronounce that. Cool thing on his note is, so in previous episodes, after your fucking book, look at that, we need to get a photo before I go, all right, fine. So when we did, um, like fantastic, I talked about how I tried to take less notes and then accidentally ended up with more. So just to keep track of the numbers. So colour of magic, I had 64 notes, like fantastic, 66 and equal rights, uh, 68. So what we have learned is that I cannot calm down my note taking. Anyway, now we've mocked my tendencies, my proclivities. I like post it notes. Um, yeah, so in previous episodes, I can't remember which episode we

actually had this conversation. I feel like it was one of the colour of magic ones. So we talked about that Terry Pratchett really liked words that sound like things would sound like if they make a noise. And I didn't realise the actual quote is in this book. No, I didn't either. I got to that, I was like, oh. So yeah, so what he actually says is there should be a word for words that sound like things would sound like if they made a noise. Yes. The word glisten doesn't bleed gleam oilily. It doesn't bleed. I'll try that again. The word glisten does indeed gleam oilily. And if there was ever a word that sounded exactly like the way sparks look as they creep

across burned paper, or the way the lights of cities would creep across the world, if the whole of human civilization was crammed into one night, then you couldn't do better than coruscate. I feel like that was mainly a way to sneak in an extra favourite quote, but okay. Yeah. But yeah, coruscate is a very good word. I love the word coruscate. I've never confident enough about it to use it in a sentence. No, I think it's above us. It's classier than we are. Are you getting ideas below your station classie? I think I've noted that as one of my favourites. Anyway, so before we get there, yeah, do you want to tell us what happened in the book? Oh yeah. Okay, so in this section, where are we?

We open on Granny and Mrs. Whitlow having tea after we left off last time. So we left off with us getting laughed out of the boys club, as you so kindly put it. We open on Granny and Whitlow having tea. Whitley. Esk is working at Hogwarts. That's the back, oh sorry, the university. That's the back door that Granny was talking about. Yes. And she's very frustrated that she's not learning anything about magic. She gets to see Simon lecture on the nature of the universe and how nothing's really real, which is cool. I had an existential crisis reading that. As Simon lectures, Esk notices the walls getting thin and that things, capital things, are watching. Esk decides what she needs to do is learn to read. So she talks her way into

cleaning the library. Has a lovely chat with the librarian. Come to the conclusion, there must be a book about learning to read, which probably has kittens and puppies on the cover, gets chatting to Simon, and things try to break through the denim of reality while they're having a little chat because that's what Simon does. The staff knocks Simon out and an upset Esk throws it in the river. Simon's unconscious for three days when Granny comes to take a look. It turns out his brain has wandered off to hang out in the dungeon dimensions. So Granny gets herself into a magic fight with Cut Angle, the art chancellor of the university. Esk borrows her way into the building to get herself back into the university and is found unconscious with Simon. So Granny and

Cut Angle go and fetch the staff, have a lovely little session of boating on the flooded Ankh I mostly go to bounce in a mess. They find the staff encased in a lot of ice and Granny shames it into coming back to the university with him. We also learned that Granny and Cut Angle knew each other as children. Esk is unconscious and in the dungeon dimensions with Simon. While she's unconscious she's made into a wizard and receives the staff. Her and Simon defeat the things together by not doing magic and come to in the library. We end on Granny sunning her ankles and being invited to a lecture at the university. Esk and Simon go on to create an entirely new form of magic that no one understands and drum billet refers to light returns to life as an ant.

Good elf drum. Yeah I like him more as an ant. He doesn't speak. Yeah. Yeah. Quick check in on helicopter and loincloth watch. No helicopters yet no loincloths yet but I'm optimistic for the future. All right. We're keeping the segment. Okay. Because it'll be great when there's a helicopter. It's your show Joanna. Just the helicopter bits one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh I've got joint ownership of the loincloth of a. Yes. Okay. We are part of custody. Very kind. All right. So what's your official favorite quote? You mean the one that haven't just snuck in elsewhere. This ties in with my whole lovely theme of having an existential crisis. Yeah. So back when I used to, Francine unfortunately first became friends with me when I was studying philosophy

which means she had to put up with pretentious drunk teenage me regularly having existential crises because I thought it made me interesting. I mean to obnoxious drunk 17 year old me it did. Yeah. Just so everyone knows that we were both the worst teenagers but I know this is my favorite quote and they're talking about Simon and his magical lectures. Yes. Finally cut angles spoke very slowly and carefully. I look at it like this he said before I had him talk I was like everyone else. You know what I mean? I was confused and uncertain about all the little details of life. But now he brightened up while I'm still confused and uncertain it's on a much higher plane. Do you see? And at least I know I'm bewildered about the really fundamental and important

facts of the universe. And I won't do the whole page. They both say for the strange warm glow of being much more ignorant than ordinary people who were ignorant of only ordinary things. It is very, very beautiful. I love it. It makes me happy because it reminds me of me as a pretentious teenager who was into philosophy who thought I was so much more interesting because while everyone else was just confused about bus routes I was confused about the inner workings of the universe. And at the same time while it is a very wanky thing it hints at the kind of truth of the more you learn the less you know kind of. Yeah. The more you get into a subject of the more you realise that you do not know anything. Yes. Like oh there is just a whole world

of things I didn't know I didn't know. Excellent. All research and trying to learn I do just makes me just broadens my field of ignorance. But I quite like that. Yes. I like accepting that. Yeah. It does however fuel the fire of my desire for immortality. Yeah. Just as everything does. So you want to be immortal so you can learn more things. Learn more things and not have to worry about every time I learn something realising I don't know another 10 things. Oh yeah. Yeah. You see I just I like not knowing everything. I like that there's so much more out there that I can't understand yet. But that's it's the yet. It's the yet. What if I don't get to it is my problem. I mean it's fine you'll be immortal. Yeah exactly. I have to reassure you of this in a very regular

basis. I never really came to terms with my existential crisis. I just settled into it. I see I went through the existential crisis came out this other side and hit nihilism and what's your favourite quote Francine um page 266 when the university is flooding flooded and a cut angle and granny go into the library which is full of wizards who care about their books in the same way that ants care about their eggs and in times of difficulty carry them around in much the same way. I just really like that mental image. It's not a particular discussion point or anything. I just love the idea of wizards scuttling around carrying their books in the same way that when you watch a spilled ant hill way when they're carrying their eggs. That's really quite sweet.

So which characters get introduced? We don't really meet any new characters because it's the last thing in the book. But I like that the librarian gets explained again. This is like a little theme because all the books kind of can be read a bit standalone. It is kind of a theme that whenever the librarian gets introduced there is a brief explanation that there was a magical misfire so the librarians in orangutan wouldn't like to be changed back. Thank you very much. And also that when he gets introduced they sort of explain the way the books of magic react with each other and it does it ends up building into what happens a few pages later but at the time it seems like it's just explaining that therefore there was a magical misfire that made the librarian

in orangutan. So I like the way he sort of hints those things in. So we have the librarian, we have cut angle who we met at the end of the last section who's like the arch chancellor. But he's not really a spoiler for a future book to say we have a different arch chancellor in future books and this feels a bit like when we met the patrician in the colour of magic if it's like a proto version of a character still to come. And he feels like a rough draft of what will become this character with Cully. Yes there's definitely some similarities. We're all saying that and there's a whole thing of him and Granny knowing each other as children. Oh yes that's right yeah. Yeah so I guess where Granny comes from is a good source for wizards.

This is quite a high magical area itself. It is isn't it as as again we will revisit in future books although the village changes. But I think badass as a village still turns up in future books but it's not the main place you see Granny hanging out. And yeah the only other thing is not really a introduction of a character but we do see drum billet again who has been reincarnated as an aunt. Yay. And it couldn't happen to a nicer fellow I hope he gets stepped on. Does that mean to pour drum billet? The wizards are the whole thing when he's a tree and he's mansplaining witchcraft. Granny means I'm allowed to want him to get stepped on as an aunt. I mean okay. I have decided and therefore it's fine. Okay. So yeah so that's the only real character

entrance because like I said it's the last third of the book. Yeah. No one new really turns up. There's no one new and important and exciting. Yeah. In my opinion. In which case we go on to the some of the small bits you liked. Small things. Little bits. Little bits. Lovely little things. Is this just I only link that scene in the show notes for people who don't understand that. I only put this segment in so that I can make up for references. Well mine kind of links to one of yours but I didn't put the quoting because I was trying not to just cheat and put all the quotes I liked in. You've referenced the quote so now I get to. I'm just trying to find the right page because there's so many posted notes.

I can see you've been getting ideas below your station. Yeah. Sorry I've stolen your note now. I wish I had like one eighth of Granny's confidence. Yes. Like that absolute confidence in the face of possibly being completely wrong. Yeah and the confidence to walk through the rain and it's not going to hit you and you're the scariest thing in the forest and bursting into a room full of men that you've been told you're very much not allowed into. Elephant's kind of badger. Yeah that confidence purely in the face of being wrong sometimes like yes an elephant is definitely a type of badger and when she's right I wish I could do that. Yeah me too. I feel like I'm slowly getting better at it through the years. It's kind of a fake it till you make it thing

isn't it? It is. I think Granny Weatherwights probably definitely spent her 20s in the kind of I'm just going to do this until I feel this. Yes. And that's what I've been trying to do now. I mean Annie Og I think was probably born with it. Granny Og has the excellent subtle confidence of not really needing any confidence it just hasn't occurred to her that she wouldn't be welcome anywhere. Yes. I can't wait for our readers who are new to meet Annie Og. Yeah who is pretty again talking of proto characters. Granny Nanaffle I think has mentioned a couple of times in this that's pretty much the proto Granny Nanaffle who uh nearly lost her mind in a vixen. Yes. Which I think is definitely Annie Og. I think yeah I think there's definitely a bit of a hint there.

But yeah I just love the idea of her bursting into a room and saying no I belong in here. Yeah. Excuse me that's lost but it's that uh because there's two different types of that confidence. There's the charismatic confidence where you burst in and you assume you have a right to be there and it's kind of fine because you're everyone enjoys your presence. My spine looks like. Yeah and I'm thinking about people I actually know as well. Yeah yeah. And then there's the kind of confidence of I'm going to walk in despite and you're going to then make allowances for me and it's a bit like asks if you quietly ignore the rules people rewrite them. Yeah. And Granny's very much the latter form of confidence. She's not the charismatic likable confidence. No. She is the

I will not be enjoyed here but I will be tolerated and the world will rearrange itself to suit me. Yes this is how I would like this next few moments. Yeah this is how I would like this next few minutes to go and you guys would better make that happen. So yeah so there was that I like when he's uh when Simon's in the dungeon dimensions and he's got all the little shapes with all the different little worlds in. A there's one that's earth and there's some comments about people being stupid enough to live on a ball. Yeah right. Yeah god who'd do that. All right. Discs all the way flat. No we'll get flat out there us again. But there's a couple of discs that again sound a bit Norse mythology linked. Right yeah the snake that obviously the world

tree and the ice thingy is Norse. The snake sounds a bit Norse around. Yeah Yomender the serpent that intacles the world is one of Loki's kids. Right okay so it's basically Norse mythology split in two. Kind of yeah. I mean I think that's where some of the inspiration must have come from but yeah no Yomender's the world serpent in Ragnarok Thor cuts his head off. That seems unkind. As in like the Norse tale of the apocalypse not the movie Thor Ragnarok. Oh yeah no. But I have read Neil Gaiman's Norse mythology thing but it's uh mythology is one of those things that goes in and out of my head. It's one of the few things I am pretty good at retaining facts on she says I know a few weeks ago I completely forgot the name of Odin's Ravens.

I still can't remember. I much prefer folk lore to mythology. Mythologies all of it fucking grand design, airy fairy, rapey god, bolter. Well mythology I like little stories. I like small folkloric stories but mythology I love it coming from people trying to work out why things happen and I like the stories that come about of well of course this is how the world got made. Obviously. Yeah I know it I find it really fascinating. Oh yeah there was another which has nothing to do with mythology but just went esk sweeping in the school corridors in the description of the colours of the school corridors and it just it took me it took me back to a simpler time in my life. Um yeah there's a little name it's a fact known throughout the

universe is that no matter how carefully the colours are chosen institutional decor ends up as either vomit green, unmentionable brown, nicotine yellow or surgical appliance pink and then sort of always smell faintly of boiled cabbage. It's true and I don't get it either. It took me so much but it took me back to primary school. Yeah the boiled cabbage as well like yeah but it's so I've spent way too much time in the hospital recently and that smells like cabbage I'm sure they don't give anyone cabbage. No there's just a faint cabbage-ness in the air at all times. Maybe it's a British thing we need to ask some international people whether they're hospitals and schools and things smell like cabbage. Yes if we have any international listers what

colours are your school hallways painted and does it smell of cabbage? And if not does it smell of any other boiled brassica? Hansel and Postclub? Oh actually it's your signing internationally I guess you can email us. Or Abatross. Do Abatrosses fly from uh fly cross Atlantic and either go a long way? Well they flew from the counterweight continental bank Moorpork so I reckon one could fly like via the Atlantic or across Europe. Okay sure that sounds fine. Also like I just want an Abatross so please answer some on Abatross. Ben wouldn't let you have a pet of any kind what makes you think he's gonna accept the Abatross when it turns up? Well I'll have to keep it. Well it even fits through your picture wouldn't it? Probably. I don't know how big an Abatross is. Quite big. Once I've got

the Abatross I can't get rid of it like that's the point of it. It's a whole thing. The Abatross Yes you're Abatross. Anyway. No return. I think a really sad game of cursed it. Did you call it it? Yes. Okay. Yeah it was playing it. Um I think it's tag in America and TIG we used to fly as well in the Midlands it was TIG. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah no some of the kids are out of now who were teenagers never thought of it as it. Yeah. Did you play 4040 as well? Yeah. Yeah. And then there was like a violent version of it called Commando. Yeah and I mean I would just kid sometimes. I miss playing games on the green and all of that stuff. There's a nice bit about I don't think actually many nice bit but there's a nice bit about reminiscence when

when Granny and Cossangler and the boat together and saying there seem to be more young people now and there seem to be so many old people when we were younger. And the air is wrong. Yeah it's wrong and the grass isn't quite as green and and I really love that. Sounds like a lot of redder. Yeah because I do reminiscence like that now and it's just like oh there aren't nice commons anymore. Yeah. There's no nice green to go and play on. Yeah it's um well I mean a big part of it is literally that you do just feel things more acutely as a teenager like just chemically. Yeah which means everything is sharper and brighter and yeah more intense. Probably why we've got more headaches. Yeah that was the reason I had headaches as a teenager.

Anyway totally unrelated to that no there's just a line I really like which Simon says to us how did you get here and she says Granny won't tell me I think it's something to do with men or women. Just S throughout is being really quite stubborn in her naivety. Yeah she refuses to learn that one thing and remains very naive. I like it. Also I make that joke every time someone says like how'd you get here? Well where did that come from? Yeah I mean the daddy love each other very much. Yeah when I um which is alarmingly common when I walk into a room I go why am I here? Jack likes to shout through. Well there's some theories about the philosophy of the universe. It was something about my coffee.

Um yeah one of the other little bits he likes to shut me up. Sorry sorry um I like uh he's not called is he called treacle? Treetal. Treetal sorry I've written down treacle. All right treacle. I've written down uh just treacle comforting building I thought was very sweet when Granny worked out some time ago that the building has a personality and a kind of mind of its own cut angle and really thought about it before and off but then come to think oh yeah fine and uh just when they met treetal and they're running off to the library and they go and the building is frightened of some of the stalls so it's Granny it could do with comforting and then treetal after they run off. He wasn't going to be accused of disobedience and so he

carefully without knowing exactly why reached out and gave the wall a friendly pat. There there he said strangely enough he'd had a lot better. Well that's lovely. It is nice. I don't know. Showing that not even absurd representations of the patriarchy are beyond redemption. Yes treetal is not the one I most want to step on. See that surprises me because he's most explicit. Yeah but this is the thing he's explicitly nasty and has something of redemption and is proved wrong whereas drum is just so self-assuredly right. He has the third kind of confidence the bad kind. Yeah he has the undeserved and unnecessary confidence. That's the middle age white man. Yep and he doesn't really I mean yes all right he gets reincarnated doesn't that but he doesn't

really get a redemption in any way. He doesn't get an opportunity to learn in quite the same way. No although I suppose we can assume he will as that's the whole point of the work anyway back up. I still want to step on him. Yeah. I feel like that'd be part of it. Yeah anyway. This is part of the learning curve and therefore you can feel good about it. Yes. So we're now at the main talking points. Our key points. Our key points. Our important parts. Important parts. You know I mean stuff we like. Stuff we like. Bigger stuff we like than the small stuff we like. Yeah um all I actually wrote down for this note was granny not feeling witchy enough. There's right at right at the very beginning of this section where granny and mrs quicklow

are having tea together and granny's just piling sugar into her tea. Yeah. And she's talking about how she doesn't feel she looks witchy enough. Her teeth are too robust she can't get any warts. Yeah. She's comparing herself to. Although I was going to say early in the book it is noted that she has a walk covered hand that is a continuity problem. Oh no. Continuity errors. I think the character developed so much as he was writing the book. Yeah. Yeah. We talked about it in color of magic and like fantastic that there's points where looking at it now with an editor's eye you can't change and point these out. Yeah. They probably didn't have a powerful editor's eye on them at this point. However I must say of all the characters that kind of develop as they go

Granny Weatherwax appeared the most fully formed. Yes. Very little changes to her from her core. Was that from the beginning? Yeah. And Terry Patrick said that's one of his she's one of his favorite characters and one of the ones he most relates to. But I just love the idea of you know she's so invested in the headology and her appearance and being seen as the witch to have that frustration that her teeth are too good and she's not faulty enough. Like she's always depicted very tall and thin and stern. Yeah. Which I had never actually pictured her as tall and thin until I saw some of the illustrations. Really? The book could be done. No. I thought of her as shorter. I thought of her a bit Miriam Margles. Oh. She

was Professor Sprout in the Harry Potter films. Got you. Yeah. Like I know she'd make a perfect naniyog but I pictured Granny as kind of shorter and a bit chabbier and a bit That's interesting. I don't know. More visceral in her appearance rather than very tall and thin and restrained. Huh. Interesting. I think some of it's to do with the way she's written the way she speaks. Yes. Which is probably some horrible classes and lots of hidden prejudices within me and stuff like that. Yeah. I'd expect someone who looks that kind of tall and thin and restrained to speak a certain way. That is not the way Granny Weatherwax speaks. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. I don't I've always pictured her as is and I'm not sure if that's just because it's one of the

few descriptions that stuck with me properly as I read it. Yeah. I just I don't know why the description didn't stick with her because I had such my own mental image of what this sort of which would look like. Yeah. So she's always been a bit shorter and a bit wider and a bit more expressive. I'm sure she wouldn't mind. No. I'm sure she wouldn't. Probably like it. She's described as there being a lot of petticoats and things under there so I just don't think she'd appear very slender. Yeah. I've found she's always to me been like a very yeah very aristocracy kind of looking anyway. Yeah. But but like a kind of aqua line. Well I always sort of pictured her very dignified but in a quite a scruffy way. Hmm. You know when someone's so aristocratic that they come out the

other side and they're wearing scruffy beets. No. Yeah. Yeah. So you know I don't know. I think she's always perfect. Yeah. Maybe that's not quite what I mean. I just don't picture her as tightly bound in her clothes. Hmm. I imagine there's lots of layers. There's many many vests and she's perfectly capable of being to roll her sleeves up. Yeah. Hmm. I think we'll find out which is the broad I can't remember exactly. Yeah. I think she loses a petticoat actually. So yeah. So I like that. Yeah. I like that. Oh the next one to me isn't it. So the next one actually is yours. It's power of belief or not. Oh okay. Yeah. Let's carry on and chronological shall we. Well this is fun. This this carries on from what I was saying about Granny about how

she's so careful to appear a certain way because so much of her power comes from people believing in her power. Sure. Like that's the whole Hedology thing and yeah it's a fun theme that Terry Pratchett does a lot is is how powerful belief is. And what was I thinking about when I wrote that down. That's cool. Sorry. I've given myself very random page numbers that may in no way link to my point. Oh yeah. So it's what Simon's lecturing and the more he speaks the more he sort of explains that nothing really exists that unless people think it exists is like the very very brass tacks of that theme that Pratchett uses of the power of belief. Yeah. So the more you believe in something you almost manifest based on that belief. Yeah. And this is Simon explaining

it in a very theoretical physics way that then you know gives the wizards their lovely highfalutin existential crisis. Yeah. Feeling very vague about the whole universe but also that's where reality becomes thin enough that the dungeon dimensions start coming through to Simon is because he's talking about the fact that nothing really exists unless you believe in it. See I feel like that's a really good way for me to make Jack stop talking about quantum in the future. Yeah. It's like I can build walls of the universe getting thin darling. Can we leave this subject? I do. I wish I understood quantum physics. I would love to learn about quantum physics and understand it but I just cannot make that commitment in my life to understanding quantum physics.

Well it kind of goes on to the the the one I made a note of. Segway. Yes. Segway. It's the the way he... okay I never really understood magic until he explained it. So clear. So well obvious. Only only what only what was it you understood? That's what's bothering me. I mean can you explain it? And they can't and to me that is everything when anyone explains like high concept math or physics to me. If somebody clever explains it I'll get it in the moment. I'll be like yeah okay no yeah I think I'm getting that okay. And then the moment you like step away from that conversation. Yeah like no wait no I don't get it. No I don't get it at all. Okay. Yeah because when they go through and they start keep they keep trying to explain it to each other

and it's like oh so magic fills the universe and every time the universe changes. Now I mean every time magic's in vote the universe changes and in every direction at once and any piece of matter like an orange or a crocodile which is basically shaped like a carrot. So this this must remind you of me trying to explain some of these things to you. Yeah. Very much so. But it always me trying to explain like you find it quite entertaining when I try and explain the plot of something to you. Yeah. Or like trying to explain so in Watchman there's this guy and he created a giant squid to stop the world from to prevent nuclear war and now he's kind of on another planet where there are tomatoes that grow like apples. Yeah another like. Yeah. So yeah I very much get that.

Yeah. And this is why I don't like I'm in the wrong job because I really hate teaching people things because there are things I will have this very innate understanding of that I cannot explain. That's I really struggle with it and I want to be able to because my mum did teacher and she's super good at it and we're so similar in so many ways but I really struggle with getting my words in the right order to explain a concept that yeah just I inherently get. Yeah. So things like I think we've talked about this in the past actually things like why certain writing reads well and yeah doesn't in other times like and this is something I I can explain to the point where I can edit effectively and I can say to a writer this is why I've changed this but I can't tell you

exactly why yeah. Yeah. Now I get that a lot as well. I think I'm not sure if it's just that oh brains are kind of wired so we've just got all the information coming from several directions and it's difficult to kind of get out on one in one stream. Yeah. Oh I don't know. But yeah I like that. Well say I like that. I like that Pratchan accepts very clearly within this book that there are things that are really meant to be understood in quite the same way and sometimes it's possibly better to enjoy that your awareness of ignorance. Yeah. Like what we were talking about earlier. I think yes and I think there are just a few people in the world whose brains are the right shape to kind of get this stuff and make it stick. Yeah. If anyone would like to email us and

explain quantum physics. Don't. I mean I'll read it. Will you? I'll forget it as soon as I finish it here. I will. It's kind of magic isn't it. If anyone emails us and tries to explain quantum physics I will try and understand said email. Oh Jack read a book about a guy who is forgotten as soon as someone's not looking at him. Oh yeah he told me about that one. Oh I forgot the bloody author name even though I love her. I'm gonna have no segue. They keep talking about it's what they're talking about actually so it's not completely unrelated this concept of the magic that they don't really understand this is what is this sorcery and it's in the word sorcery you are I see. And is it sorcery? Well I kept looking at it going oh he's doing foreshadowing

because the fifth book so this is book three book five is called sorcery and goes into this comment and I was like oh clever foreshadowing lots of clever and then I looked at it I was like I don't think that's what he's doing at all. I genuinely think I look for lots of clever foreshadowing and hints and Easter eggs because of the kind of media I consume on a regular basis and I am looking for something that what he's actually done is thought this is a word and then a couple books later gone oh hang on yeah what if I do play with that. I think all the practice clever references and Easter eggs and everything are almost always contained within the one book. Yeah and so yes it's definitely worth looking out for cool little further bits but yeah at this

point he probably wasn't saying and this is how I'll make the magic work in a couple of books because hey I don't think it is if I remember correctly. No no it ends up being completely different yeah it involves wizard cubes. Oh yeah again it's exponential. That's a word we'll use. Oh good I'll have to learn what that means before we get there. It's a few months away it's fine. But yeah but I was thinking about this and this is a really bad habit I've got from watching like I'm watching lost at the moment but from watching Game of Thrones and some of the clever ways things are written in succession. Watchmen apparently is another one. Watchmen's a big one. But that's full of Easter eggs based on the comic and things as well. Oh god.

Which is I need to reread the comic to be fair um but it's a really good show. It is. I want to reread the comic and then I want to watch the show with you on your next rewatch of it because I need someone to. I'm just bad at spotting these things. I'm only spotting stuff because I well this is this is the other thing about I spot this because of the way I consume media especially with TV shows is I get into like recaps and reviews and podcasts about them so it's very rare I'm watching a show and I'm just watching it without also reading. A show is a real time commitment for you. There's the show and then about three times the length of the show and follow up. Not for everything but like for Game of Thrones I mean Game of Thrones was the most

extreme one because I was listening to three podcasts on it and reading one regular recap. I hear from the internet that the last season was terrible. Oh it was. Yeah it was. It was not worth the time commitment I guess but because I re-binged like almost the entire show before it came out yeah I kind of had in my head that it was a better show than it was because before season six season seven it was pretty good like it was a one-way TV show. It is fun going into something like that with the kind of ardent nerdism. Game of Thrones because there's so much in the source material and the history and the lore that it was kind of fun having those deep dives into it and things like Succession just because it was such a good show it was so well

written it was nice listening to podcasts and stuff about it because it was kind of a other people also were seeing the things I'm seeing about like validation. Yeah like this one character is really down and oppressed and his life has gone wrong for the whole series he's wearing these sad brown suits and when he finally comes back to himself he's suddenly in like a sharp blue gray tomford suit. Yeah for certain shows that's why I like going on the subreddit for it afterwards but it really depends on the target audience. Yeah I like Rick and Morty no. Yeah I like Rick and Morty I don't like people who are into being into Mick and Morty. Bob's Burgers everyone's amazing. Bob's Burgers is just such a nice. Shout out to the Bob's Burgers

subreddit everyone there is lovely. I've never been on the subreddit but Bob's Burgers is such a nice program. Yeah and the people who watch it are pretty much as you'd imagine. Yeah no that's great I like that but yeah so I've got so into looking for these Easter eggs and stuff that I think I find it a bit weird coming back to this where it's like oh it's a very clever self-contained book and I need to not be looking ahead. Yeah. So I thought that was interesting. Cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool. Antiboyle. Antiboyle? Antiboyle so speaking of highfalutin scientific concepts I can't properly explain. Thoroughly wrestle. Can I have some context? Oh yeah sure. Before you explain whatever

anti-boiling is please please is this something to do with when the staff the staff is really cold? Yeah okay so I was talking about like uh yeah I'll read out the paragraph. So cut angle and granny seek in the staff and it's like in the middle of this increasingly cold area and they're now walking across ice and they see the staff and the staff wasn't locked in ice but laid peacefully in a seething pool of water. One of the unusual aspects of a magical universe is the exit sorry one of the unusual aspects of a magical universe is the existence of opposites. It has already been remarked that darkness isn't the opposite of light it is simply the absence of light in the same way absolute zero is merely the absence of heat. If you want to know what real cold is the cold's so

intense that water can't even freeze but anti-boils look no further than this pool and well a I've said before I just really like the concept of opposites that Pratchett puts throughout the disc world. Yes. And the uh I looked it up just in case it was actually a thing and totally is. Anti-boiling isn't quite but absolute zero isn't as absolute as you might imagine and I'm not sure if this was like known to be the case or theorized even to be the case in the late 80s um but so absolute zero is zero kelvin yeah which is minus 270 273 very good Celsius and minus 459 fahrenheit um and I googled below absolute zero I think and found a really cool article on futurism.com so he used a kind of visual

metaphor so you want to visualize a group of particles that are very cold um and so not moving very much low entropy. They are in a valley that you want to visualize and now you add energy which is heat to the mix and they start moving more which is as we know what particles do when you heat them up which is why cooking works and stuff yeah um and as they start moving more this starts climbing the mountain uh some of them are zipping right up some of them are left behind it's kind of a little bit chaotic which is kind of what entropy is um and now you add more energy and you have higher entropy and uh they're farther apart some are still in the valley some are kind of halfway up some are spread right up on top of the hill and you keep adding more and more

energy um until basically all the particles are in every place on the mountain it's like proper entropy this is as hot as it goes okay um and then you've reached maximum entropy but actually if you keep adding more energy all of the particles have to go to the top and then they start lining up in order again right and that is apparently the cold beyond heat right and i'm not sure if it's just completely theoretical or what because that's as far as i got before i went oh you know what i should probably do my work no i really that's really cool but yeah um and then the author goes on later in the article to say that uh sub absolute zero atoms also have the interesting quality of acting

like dark energy right um which could be very interesting for cosmologists studying the effects of dark energy in the expansion of the universe they don't really do mean they kind of defy gravity and push against it sorry i'm not going to start seeing defying gravity good thank you cool i appreciate thank me yeah so that's my little so anti-boiling there is like cold beyond heat yeah so pratshit was way ahead of physicists is what i'm saying cool right i mean i understood some of that yeah i didn't again i can't explain these things very well but um i'll link the articles to where the author explained it very well in just the manner we were talking about is that i definitely understood it when i read it now i do i vaguely understand it from that and i like the idea of there is

order and cold beyond heat and we were talking uh back when we were recording the light fantastic we talked a lot about um order and chaos and villainy so i i like the idea of if you go through that chaos you get back to order again yeah when you look at pratshit's themes of order being the villain yeah or order and greatness and a lack of emotion yeah with the characters like trimon and auditors who will get to yeah so yeah so you reach maximum entropy and keep going and then you get back uh we should remember this when we talk about the auditors yeah we should but yeah cool back yeah but yeah so um your point about the whole anti-boiling thing kind of takes me to something i really liked in this which is coming through the other side of magic and not using it and it is

again it's something he talks about a lot with the witches is knowing when not to use magic and the idea of them defeating these things by sort of doing anti-magic not not doing magic because they don't know how to do magic but not doing magic because they can choose not to do magic and i really love that as a concept the choice to not do something you're capable of doing yeah not as a necessarily a saving the world thing but it's you know it's something that you sit back and you look at quite a lot in your own life like i can get into an argument with someone and convince them to my way of doing but i can all into my way of thinking but i can also choose not to do that because really at the end of the day that feels better this is quite rambly i'm not

entirely sure what my point is but yeah so the power of not doing something you're perfectly capable of doing and that being what brings eskin simon back into the world i thought was a really really lovely so it's lovely a powerful thing to have in the book and it's considering what a feminist book this is but just even at the end of this where simon sort of says okay you've been a wizard now and what are you going to do yeah you've got to go through wizardry yeah been through wizardry what's next just what i always say about restaurant managers is that you're going to be a shit one unless you are a waiter first yes you have to go through the other side of it to be able to then apply any logic to it yeah and that takes me on to my final point

farts in what's the fastest cake sorry what's the fastest cake today it's gone hey is it's gone and that's why you call them scones and not scones okay well that's fine that's the first argument done and actually i agree with you it's gone yeah if you say scones you sound like a wanker or american right i wouldn't or a northerner yeah i mean i feel like i should say scones now i don't northerners that say scones yeah well they've got so many dialects per square am i a lot of letters this in this exact patch of land will you say scones if i take one step to the left i have to say scone oh no i'm in no month let's go on let's go on anyway so scones right we get to the end of the book you've subtitled this point which is new with i am right so yes

going in there pretty confident i'm right channeling you where the wax yep except not nope i'm right okay fine i'm not happy about this because well i mean granny being wrong isn't like a completely rare occurrence isn't it like i'm just saying she thinks of elephants a type of banjo so at the end of the book granny is sunning her ankles and being invited to lecture at the university she's eating scones and she puts jam on the scone and then puts cream on it yes granny is no granny is wrong granny is granny is completely wrong the cream goes first and there is evidence in the books that granny is often wrong about little things she'd very confidently barge her head and she wouldn't have broke this argument but girl would rearrange itself to make that the

correct thing so it's not the correct thing right okay right okay i'm getting the scones lay out your argument here do i know why would you put cream on first because you put the dairy thing it is there is similarities to butter not enough structural similarities though yes but it creates a barrier between the scone and the jam if you put the jam first then you get crumbs or sticky enough in the jam this way you have the sensible dairy barrier first but then you get all crumbs all off in the cream well no because the cream is for want of a better word greasier yeah so it comfortably spreads on and then the jam can sit nicely on top of it and you have definition but then you don't get it nicely distributed if you spread the jam and if you spread it properly

you don't get all crumbs off in the jam they're on a jesus spread the jam and then you can spread a nice layer of cream and then with every bite you get the correct ratio of cream and jam the jam spreads better on the cream than on the scone that's just not true please all right well i think we're just gonna have to have a practical experiment do you want to get the scones get the scones right also put the fucking google hole music on are we recording yeah right okay so we have a scone a piece okay i'm just gonna cut this this is amazing visual content yeah for our podcast actually it's not amazing visual content either i made a hatch of that not them i'll get some secret fancy napkins we will tweet slash facebook photographs of our scones oh i would have cut

it more evenly if i knew well i'll just put a face of mine because mine will be right oh my god so right if you're putting the jam on top of the cream you cannot put as much if you're putting the cream on top of the jam you cannot get as much cream on there and i'm sorry but the point of a scone is to be a vehicle for a large amount of clotted cream mm-hmm voila large amount of clotted cream evenly spread to the edges yeah and now i'll see if we're doing this in different ways that makes the whole thing awkward ah fuck sorry do it's very jelly jam well i'm not gonna lie i bought this is a bit for the podcast i did not get expensive jam oh no i mean i don't have anything against jelly jam let's just absolutely this might go against your and then now see because i have

that sensible dairy barrier the jam spreads comfortably without getting full of crumbs but do you notice how i'm also managing to spread the jam Joanna yeah but yours is all crummy and stuff no why does it matter it's all going into my mouth because now you can't get a comfortable nicely spread even though cream on top without getting jam all up in the cream why does it matter you've got jam in your cream it's just an idiot don't eat it take a picture of it i have jam on my cream rather than in my cream why are you insisting you're just better if it's all going into the same place because jam spreads more easily than cream that is literally it no let's see look at that it's a

mess well only because i'm terrible not because the method is inherently flawed no this is entirely because the method is inherently also it's really cold cream well usually you're doing this on a summer afternoon when the cream is already warmed up a bit well unfortunately france in it's december and we don't have that option i'm just saying get a photo oh fuck mine is more aesthetically pleasing i can get you're a chef i can fit more cream on there oh no that's my face uh no now i've just set the timer oh god so i think this conclusively proves that the cream should go on the jam i don't really think it does that well what's your credible argument for the jam going first because it's simply not

true that the spread method my cream spread perfectly well because it went directly on the warm scone because it is easier to spread cream on jam than to spread jam on cream but it is easier to spread cream on a warm scone than it is to spread it on cold jam also your point because france in started the argument in the show notes hello and has said the queen has jammed and cream are we royalists now france in are we doing things because the queen does them because i'm not we were just fantasising about having bonham carter right that's not the same as wanting to do so can you say that again without a mouthful of pastry please no right fantasising about alena bonham carter being marvellous playing princess margher it's not the

same as wanting to be like the cream just because the cream the cream of england cream is a must for the mouthful scone you just did it was marvellous right just because the queen does something and has her scones wrong does not mean i should have to try and emulate the queen she does not always set the best example on a general level i agree but if we're having a stupid argument about british etiquette i feel like the royal family card is one i can play i don't if we're talking about morality or class warfare then possibly not all right in the interests of fairness i must say that during my research i found out that probably as this tradition originated in debon this was it was the original way to do it with

cream then jam there you go however the first iteration of something is not always the best no i can agree with you there i cannot agree that your scone looks more enjoyable than mine because i didn't have jam all up in my cream you did it just goes down in your cream you have cream all up in your jam but your argument that cream spreads better cream literally spreads better on a warm scone than it does on cold jam and that means you can get more cream on and i feel very strongly do you know i think we're just going to have to do this experiment again in the summer yeah all right fine when everything's a bit warmer the physics are quite different i still yeah but can we that's beautiful yeah all right we're taking photos of the entire

step this time but i'm still all right most importantly scones are delicious even cheap waitrose ones which is what we have thank you for the snack well podcasting is hungry work admittedly the bit where i get the jam off the knife and onto the scone it's a little bit that's it yeah look at you look at you struggling struggling with that stupid jam all right can we at least oh that's beautiful yeah well done yeah can we at least agree that really the planet i can't argue with you and i take so much drawing your victories can we at least agree that scones are the perfect vehicle to basically you just eat vast amounts of clotted cream i can yeah have you ever tried dunking hop knobs in clotted cream no like i said the people who

run my theorist company introduced me to this and this is like a special treat they get every um but it's now something i've just do and i'm sad but genuinely it's got to be they insist it has to be milk chocolate hop knobs um i have found the dark chocolate hop knobs actually work just as well if not better can't do it with digestives it has got to be about a plain hop knob no it's got to have chocolate what about a jammy dog job no then you've got the jam no have you tried it yeah it's not good that extensive research has been done by my theorist company it's got to be chocolate hop knobs in clotted cream it's amazing though all right well i'll try that that sounds good

clotted cream is fantastic i love clotted cream it's not safe for me to have it around you did that really beautifully yeah yeah it's because i put the cream on first made it nicer oh i'm feeling less strong about my argument but it's a regional thing and i am from jersey and in jersey you do put the jam on first i do not have close ties to a particular region that feels strongly about this because it's a devon thing i've never been to devon it's all right i wasn't missing it yeah i mean this is the thing i agree with your husband about this you don't need to use that expression you agree with him on plenty of things yeah no i know no i'm just mean that you know your husband and i are against you on this front oh i see yeah

well your husband and i are against you on pineapple on pizza so yeah but objectively you're wrong there yeah all right i am willing to admit that no let me finish what's going on objectively you are wrong to treat your unhappiness with hop knobs dipped in clotted cream but well there's like a six month waiting list with the nhs yeah i know for any kind of mental health support biscuits and clotted cream is a lot quicker and cheaper right well anyway that was a good gone interlude yes i hope you can actually use some of the sound from that i've got jam on the episode i don't know how obsessing people might i think we might need for a misophonia warning on it um we'll see how bad the sound is um so yeah so we proved that i'm right about scones fine i'll give it to you

i told you my relentless insistence on being right finally wore you down well you just made me more amenable to your point of view by bringing me food look the point is you said i was right okay yes you win you win Joanna now we're a good winner please fine can i just like gloat a tiny bit you've got to normal a tiny bit you can write on twitter when you post the pictures yay okay um uh obscure oh obscure references all right obscure reference what what is well now you've got me a finial i think i'm gonna give up trying to find different things and just use finial obscure reference finial um page two six one in the book in the book best place for it oh god it's gone on the rampage paper cuts everywhere guard francy sorry right gormand

gas gormand ghast uh holy colleges lived in the endless rooftops of the university which by comparison made gormand ghast look like a toolshed on a railway allotment uh do you know gormand i'm aware that it is a thing that's about it so i've not heard of it it's a fantasy series by marvin peak and i'm not sure obscure is quite the right word for it sounds pretty famous and influential but i haven't heard of it and i couldn't see anything better uh so it's a series of three books um published in the 40s and 50s um and it's about the goings on in this huge decaying castle it's labeled fantasy because of the setting although there's not that many fantastical elements that i believe um but the castle itself is called gormand ghast and it runs over like

several square miles oh and not only that but in the second book a flood drowns the lowest levels of the castle so like kind of goes here um but now i really want to read it i found the um just one of the many descriptions of the castle uh over there a regular roofs would fall through the seasons the shadows of time eaten buttresses have broken and lofty turrets and most enormous of all the shadow of the tower of flints this tower patched unevenly with black ivy arose like a mutilated finger from among the fists of knuckled masonry and pointed blasphemously at heaven that's amazing right it's so overall i really want to read it in dramatic settings so our homework for the podcast now is to read gormand ghast yeah i mean things aren't looking good

considering we haven't done any of the homework so far but yeah well i like set myself's homework for another gonna do um so yeah it reminds me of gcs's oh one last thing before we completely wrap up is that i just really like the ants and their private oh yeah civilization they're hinted at throughout this section and they stole lots of sugar lumps to build a small sugar pyramid they entomb the mummy five body of a den aunt queen and they inscribed in insect hieroglyphics the true secret of longevity longevity longevity longevity and um they would have had important implications for the universe if it hadn't all been washed away when the university flooded yes that is a beautiful it's a nice thing for the book that's a nice note for the book to end on

it is a nice note for the book to end on it would be a nice note for the podcast round on jirana segue segue right i should like to help people where they can find us i think they already found us oh good point now they can get in touch with us oh all right if you think that's a good idea yeah so albatross please send just send us albatrosses no thank you for listening to the truth shall make you and the trossies i was doing so well i've only got the whole sentence out thank you for listening to the truth shall make you fret this is the end of our discussion of equal rights so you are probably expecting us to take a week off and come back in february with a book for mort but the word on the street and by this i mean neil gayman said it at the thing

is that good omen's comes out on the bvc in february this is the new tv adaptation so we are going to take a month off from the disc world and have a good omen's month yay so we're gonna do two episodes on the book and at least one on the whole tv series since how long we end up talking for yeah we'll see if we have to split that into or not so that's coming in february reread the book watch the show if you can beware spoilers will abound for the entire book for all of the discussion and all of the series yeah i really feel like you should not be listening to this if you haven't read the things we're talking about there right well this is on you guys so yeah so next month is good omen's month we're very excited about that in the meantime you can tweet us at makey fret pod

you can find us on facebook at the truth shall make you fret you can email us instead of sending an albatross uh the trees shall make you fret pod at gmail.com and please think about rating and reviewing us whenever you get your wherever you get to your podcasts because it helps people find us and it also makes us quite happy doesn't help us if you just think about it yeah i mean could you actually do it yeah i'm all high off the sugar and until next time is it my go i can't remember sit together don't let us detain you send us all of your opinions on scones or scones whatever you like is this like a masochism thing yeah kind of oh okay now i don't want to know that