The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - Bonus: 150 Episodes Celebratory Mailbag! (There Will Be An Adventure)

Episode Date: September 29, 2024

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan and Francine Carrel, read and recap every book from Sir Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series in chronological order. This week, we’re celebrating 150 episodes!  Questions! Answers! Uncomfortable levels of emotion!Find us on the internet:Twitter: @MakeYeFretPodInstagram: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretFacebook: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: [e-mail]: www.patreon.com/thetruthshallmakeyefretDiscord: https://discord.gg/29wMyuDHGP Want to follow your hosts and their internet doings? Follow Joanna on twitter @joannahagan and follow Francine @francibambi Things we blathered on about:JOANNA'S BOOK! Friends and the Golden Age of the SitcomNote: My very quick attempt at adding the podcast episode durations together in Google Sheets gives me a total of 240 hours and 27 minutes. Is that right?! That can’t be right.  - F7A.1 Discworld Podcasters and Eric - Desert Island DiscworldWatch Nothing Like A Dame - Prime Video  Buffering the Vampire Slayer chimpanzee riding on a segway Frozen Charlotte (doll) - Wikipedia Joanna's tiara falls offMusic: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.com 

Sorry, I brought my spare mini bottle of Prosecco in case we don't take a break. I've gone prepared for the important things. Hello and welcome to the True Shall Make You For Us, a podcast in which we're usually reading and recapping every book from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series one assignment in chronological order. I'm Joanna Hagan. And I'm Francine Carroll. And today is our 150th episode bonus extravaganza celebration. An extravaganza, Joanna. It's an extravaganza. My tiara has fallen off, but trust me, it's an extravaganza celebration. Extravaganza Joanna. It's an extravaganza. My tiara has fallen off. But trust me, it's an extravaganza. I didn't even notice what happened there. I took my headphones off, it came off. I think we've got it captured for posterity on camera.

So Fantastic. That'd be delightful for everyone. We should really get a permanent tiara attachment for those headphones. We should honestly. It's quite offensive that I don't have one. Listeners, get on that. Thank you. So yeah, so we hit 150 episodes a couple weeks ago and we thought we'd have a little celebrate and we're going to answer a bunch of questions from our dear little listeners. We are. We have a mailbag full of things.

We've got a postcard full of albatrosses. Postcard full of albatrosses, a castle full of snacks. And all the snacks are letters actually. Sarah It's quite impressive how everyone's done that. Thank you to the people who baked their questions onto individual biscuits and sent them to us via albatross. However, the albatross did eat those. Niamh Yes, but he informs us they were very thoughtful. Sarah Delicious. Thoughtful, delicious questions. Niamh Thoughtful and delicious questions.

Sarah Anyway, no spoilers before we crack on. We're a spoiler-like podcast. No heavy spoilers for any books, but we'll definitely avoid mentioning what happens in Raising Steam or Shepard's Crown, which are the only two books left, which we're not thinking about. You're just upsetting yourself now Joanna. It wasn't even my fault that time. I know. I'm very easily upset. I'm very highly strung, Francie, and I'm very fragile. I'm a writer, don't you know? A writer, sans tiara, what to do? Goodness. 150 episodes. Wow.

That's a few. When we hit 100, I worked out how many hours we've done. I'm going to have to do that again for this and edit that in because I completely forgot about that. I don't know if I want to know. But you're going to find out. Fantastic. How do you feel about hitting 150 episodes, Francine? Yeah, pretty good actually. It didn't creep up on me like the 100th did. Yeah, the 100th was hitting triple figures. The 100th was a surprise.

That's good. I think it's more frightening to me that we're close to five years. And so obviously, this is like a little combo for that, I suppose. But yeah, it's been a long time and a lot of episodes. We'll get more, I think we'll get more retrospective-y when we do a proper retrospective episode. Yeah, I think so. I think we've both been practicing our Oscar speeches. We have. I mean, I practice Oscar speeches on a regular basis anyway. I just walk around the house doing it. What do we call it? The orbs? The... Ugh. For the good omens. Oh, God, I can't remember what we named the orbs for. Whatever. It'll have to be a different what we named the awards for. Whatever.

It'll have to be a different one for this anyway. The PORBS, I suppose, podcast orbs. Yes, podcast orbs. Those are the ones. So shall we jump in the mailbag? Yes, let's jump into that interdimensional sorting machine as featured in going postal and if we come out in three dimensions, then we can continue. So we split your lovely questions up. So we can talk about the sort of Discworld,

general Discworld questions, we'll talk about some podcast specific ones. And then we have some odd ones at the end, which I'm really looking forward to. Lovely. Delightful little odd ones. We'll start with Discworld. Yes. And Peter has asked us about Headcanon. And I feel like Peter thinks we know something. Okay. That he doesn't. Probably concerning.

Almost certainly inaccurate. I would like to make it very clear at this point on the truth shall make you fret that I don't know anything. We've never claimed to know anything, I believe. Our legal team was so clear on that. Yeah, our legal team being us putting voices on. Yeah, yeah. And a funny moustache, too. And a moustache and a hat. Anyway, Peter asks, Carrot's adoptive parents are from Copperhead, as Margaret is mentioned as their local witch in God's Guards, and there's a good chance that they were among the dwarves invited to Margaret and Ference's wedding, which puts

them in the range of Granny Weatherwax's influence. So my questions are these. Was Granny aware that Carrot's parents had adopted a small human baby, an orphan during a bandit attack that left him with no possession save for a very old sword mysteriously hidden in a cart. Did she recognise the heir to the throne story that was playing out, and would she have felt any urge to meddle or keep an eye on the situation? Did she ask after Carrot off camera during the events of Masquerade? C. Interesting. Now, I'm trying to remember who Now, I'm trying to remember who my grats predecessor was in this area. Goodie Wemper. May she rest in peace. Goodie Wemper. May she rest in peace. Yeah. Now she was a story. She knew stories, didn't she?

Or she knew books. She was a research witch. Yes. Big godmother who knew the stories. So yeah, Granny Weatherwax would have had to, but of course she would have heard the news. Nanny Og would have heard the news and made the mention. Because her baby was born, yeah. Yeah, but do you think Nanny Og would not have meddled? See, I feel like Granny Weatherwax did know sometimes when to leave well enough alone. And I feel like-

She never put herself forward. ...wasn't one to put herself forward. The humblest witch of all the witches, definitely the most humble. But Carrot's a city problem though, isn't he? He's heir to the throne, but he's not heir to the throne of Lanker, he's heir to the throne of Aincmoreborg. So I feel like she would have kind of left that for the city. Yeah, I think she probably did keep one eye on it. And then when he left for the city, that was fine. I think probably Nanny Og asked off camera how Carrot was doing. Reported back to Granny Weatherwax who pretended to be disinterested, but was actually a bit relieved.

I like that. I like that as a headcanon. Yeah. Well, I think we've solved that. All right, good. I'm glad that's wrapped up. Lokzera asks, now that you've done nearly all the books, any thoughts on the top five? And Cheryl also asked what's the least favourite book? So yeah, thoughts? Has your top five changed at all? I don't know, because I can't remember what I said before. One of my problems with this podcast, now we hit 150 episodes and quite a long time before we did, is that I can almost guarantee

I've not been consistent in some of my very strongly held opinions. Not just ones that are obviously going to change what my favourite book is that day. But I think also things like I'll have proclaimed some very arbitrary but strongly held boundaries and then completely stamped over them two years later. But for now, this might be the same as I said before, my top five that I've written down are in no particular order, Witches Abroad, Reap Man, Thud, or Fifth Elephant, Landing on Mood, Night Watch, and Winter Smith. And I'm going to have to make a commitment now, so I'm saying Fifth Elephant instead of Thud. I would, between those two, I think Fifth Elephant would win for me. It's got the gloomy trousers of Uncle Vanya.

It does, and those gloomy trousers count for a lot. They really do. I can't remember what I've stated as my top five before, but I know various books I've stated are a part of it. Monstrous Regiment has remained very much in there. It's often in the first or second spot for me. Amazing Morris has stayed in the top five and I was worried it wouldn't. I thought a lot of my love for that book was nostalgia and then we got to it and I realized it was as good as I remember. That's a really good book. Soul music's consistently, I think in the past, been part of my top five. But I think

that one was more nostalgia and I think if I've got a season entry in there now it's Hogfather. Ah, yes. Because, like, belief and stories and can't really do anything. I'm still right that Carpe Dregulam is the best witch's book and it's my top one. All right. Audience disagree with that. To be fair, that's actually an opinion that happened after we covered it or as we covered it.

That made it my favourite witch's book and well, the best witch's book. My favourite is sometimes Witches Abroad instead, because fairy tales. Because fairy tales. But then gothic literature. I do understand. Yeah, it's a tough call. And then the fifth spot is, yeah, for me, it fights between Nightwatch and Fifth Elephant, but with the caveat that like, I know Nightwatch is the best Discworld book, it's just not always one of my top five favourite Discworld books. That's it. And I mean, honestly, Nightwatch and Thud again might have a bit of an argument. I feel bad not having Thud in there, but I think Nightwatch is so formative.

The problem with Thud is that there's that little bit that makes me emotional and I don't like it if a book does that to me too much. Yeah, not like Nightwatch, which has just platitudes and no... Well, no, Nightwatch makes me emotional in a consistent way, but Thud, I'm sort of going along like, yeah, this is really good and the story is great and blah, blah, blah. And then little Sam's lip wobbles because his dad's not come to read him the book. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. It's like that one single pinpoint of pain as opposed to the full dalek of pain is Night Watch. Yeah, I like a little pinpoint pain. Yeah. All right. Well, ask us again when we're less, more or differently emotional. How about your least favorite? Oh, yeah, that's a lot harder because even the ones I've kind of not liked in the past, I've mostly found a new appreciation of doing this podcast. Yeah, definitely.

I know it's super basic to say Eric, but I think that's probably the one I struggled the most with us covering. That and Sorcery I think are kind of low on the list for me. I'm just going to say Soul Music, I think. Sorry, it just didn't have the nostalgic attachment and yeah, I just didn't get as into it. I think Eric probably would have been there, but I've now got a new found appreciation for it because of the Illustrated version and just because we had a lot of fun doing nonsense like summoning demons then we did the joint podcast on Desert Island Discworld. I do, I have some fond memories around covering it but just if we hadn't tried to get three episodes out of it I'd probably appreciate it a lot more. Yeah that's fair, yeah we should have made it a double feature.

I think sorcery I just I can't bring myself to not be anything more than meh on. Honestly the half-brick and a sock did a lot for me though. That's fair, that half-brick-in-a-sock did a lot for me there. That's fair. That half-brick-in-a-sock really did carry that one. Yeah. It was the protagonist. And the Oscar goes to... Long enough on to stage, knocks out the announcer.

I was trying to imagine what a half-brick-in half brick in a sock voice would be to do the speech. And I don't know. I think it's communicating the same way as the luggage. It just sits there kind of projecting silent rage. Yeah. Yeah. Which, you know, a little modesty and embarrassment at the end. Shella also asks, favorite and least favorite characters.

Um, you go favorite. Uh, I have even more appreciation for Mois von Lippig this time around. Yeah. Um, obviously again, the entire cast of Monsters of Retriment, uh, is close to my heart, cheery little bottom. Um, and I love Cohen and the Silver Horde so much more, having done The Last Hero. I think that made me love Cohen. I love Cohen in the other books, but interesting times alongside Cohen, there's so much that's difficult

about that book and problematic. Yeah. They get pure anger at the gods. But yeah, raging at the gods and again, what that book says about stories and legacy. I love cut bit. And getting to be more than because he's a comic relief character in Light Fantastic. Yes. And that's something Fratchett does amazingly. His takes like, okay, I've put this character in as a one note joke now. Yeah. Yeah. Although even in Light Fantastic, he had those poignant moments didn't he that made it.

I'm a legacy in my own lifetime. I'm not going to try and do the Cohen Lisp. Legacy. Legacy. Legacy. Instead of Sean Connery. What about you, favourite characters? Well I'm going to go more basic and it's got to be Vimes or Granny and I've got here written down in my notes, okay, fine, time to make the decision. Vimes or Granny. And then I've

got Vimes and Granny written underneath and then I haven't deleted one of them. I feel like... But I didn't make that decision. Saying Vimes or Granny is a bit like saying Nightwatch. It's like best characters, yes, but not always my current favourite. Yeah, see they are. They're always my favourite. And I don't know, I feel like they are just two sides of the same coin, just very much. They are almost one entity in my head, like we've talked about before, sometimes I can't remember where I get a snippet from that lives in the depths of the filing cabinet in my head. But it's almost always Vimes or Granny. I mean, sometimes it's Tiffany. But

I just think of Tiffany as granny. Yeah, Tiffany is small granny. Yeah, small granny. Yeah, small granny. I think Vimes just edges it for me. Mm. Maybe. If I have to pick between Vimes and granny, I think I would just pick Vimes. Just.

Yeah. I think I might just pick granny. I think for me it's because we get Vimes. Vimes is on an arc, like in the gutter and coming up out of it. I love an arc. I is on an arc, like in the gutter and coming up out of it. I love an arc. I do love an arc. I love a character on an arc. Whereas Granny does a lot in each individual book, but she is kind of in that consistent place in her cottage the whole way through. Yes.

Not that she doesn't learn and grow and change, but she'd never admit to it. No, absolutely not. Not want to learn or grow or change. No, that's for city folk. That's for youngsters. What would I do changing and learning and growing at my age? All my pedagogy. But yeah, I do definitely see what you mean. And I think it honest to God just depends which book I'm reading at the moment. Yeah, when it's Vines book, it's V. When it's Vimes' book, it's Vimes. When it's a Granny book, it's Granny. It's not been either of them for a few weeks now. But we did Snuff more recently than I Shall Wear Midnight. We did, but Snuff, Vimes is moving into the reason why Granny doesn't win out right for me,

which is that she's too good sometimes. Yeah. And that's not a criticism. It's just a, oh, I don't doubt you, granny. I don't doubt you. I know I meant to but I don't. Whereas with Vimes, even if you know the story, like, oh, you're, you're fucking human you are. And that's where I think you've self actualized. Yeah. Or close enough. Yeah. And that's where I think he's self-actualized. Yeah. Or close enough. Yeah. It's actualized, as you can get in a city that still plays poo sticks with real poos.

Yes. And then least favorite. Right. So I've got Crane, obviously. That's like my top of the head answer. What's your top of the head answer? Well, it's really difficult because even like the villains are so well written that I really enjoy them as characters. Like obviously I don't like Pin and Tulip as people, but I love them as characters. But Lord Rust because-

Oh, okay. He's infuriating, you're right. Yeah, and Gravid, his son obviously, but mostly Lord Rust. Yeah. And Gravid, his son, obviously, but mostly Lord Rust. Yeah. See, I don't remember Gravid apart from as an explanation of a frog. Oh, hang on. I've said it. Are there any other Poshfuckers I don't like? Probably, right? I think Rust is, I think the worst of the Poshfuckers. I think he, all the rage at Poshfuckers mostly gets put into the Rust bucket and the other one, apart from yeah, William DeWard's dad. But all the other ones, yeah, are sort of there for a book and antagonistic. I think it's the fact that Rust is ongoing, that we have him in Nightwatch and we have him in

Monstrous Regiment. Yeah, yeah. Breacher guilt. Because I'm going to pick a villain to hate. Again, not because he's a bad character, but because he's corporate nonsense bad character. Yeah, the capitalism of it all. I see that. But then I thought, let's not be cowards. Can you pick a main character or at least a very prominent side character? Oh, that's way harder. Does it count if they're only a prominent side character in one book as opposed to like a... Yeah, that's fine. Yeah.

Okay, I'm going with Sally from Fudden. Oh, okay. I think she's just a bit too girly girl. I'm not like other girls. It is not Pratchett's best writing women. For that reason, it didn't come up to me. It didn't come up for me. But actually, Tracy might be that for me. That was definitely before he got good. Yeah. that was definitely before he got good. Yeah. Not before he got good, but before he got good at like writing that sort of character. Yeah, which is again bizarre because equal rights was right there and it was perfect. Yeah. No, that's the thing he can write like young women really well,

and then he could write old women really well. It was it was the everything. The mysterious middle bit. He got good at teenagers because if you think of Margaret as like late teens, early 20s, that wasn't the strongest characterization in Weird Sisters. But there were so many tropes to play off. It worked. But it wasn't until Tiffany, I think he managed to, like, Wintersmith, I think he managed just to hit the that age well. Obviously, Tiffany and Wintersmith a bit younger than Tracy, but you know what I mean? Absolutely. well, obviously Tiffany and when Smith bit younger than Tracy, but you know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, cool. Cool. I think I'm going to stick with Tracy then for doing prominence on our character. I'm still too much of a coward to go for a proper main character, I'm afraid. I can't think of one that I don't like. Yeah.

I guess, like, I can't even, if this was at the beginning of the podcast, I'd have probably said, like, Rincewind, because the Rincewind books aren't really my favourite books, but then I've had so much fun talking about all the books that star Rincewind with you. I can't say that now. I love Rincewind. He's a good boy. He's a good chap. He's a good boy. The Dean pisses me off sometimes, but not in a way that I could have said it's like him.

Him being irritating is also greatly enjoyable to read. It's very important to us. All right, we'll leave it there then. We can't be too hateful. We're very sorry. We tried. We did. We tried really hard.

We tried for five years. We have tried very hard to be critical and not just overly loving on this podcast. We always feel bad about it. Yeah, we are still bad. Prachi can get away with a lot with us. Last question from Shell, nice open one. Why Discworld? Why Discworld?

It influenced a disproportionate amount of my thinking, probably most of the good parts of my thinking. Probably most of the good parts of my brain. And so I never really wanted to stop talking about it. So we didn't. And we won't. How about you? There's a lot of it. And it's all quite good. Yeah, there is a lot. I mean, yeah, we you know, we decided to do a podcast about a book series. If we'd done Narnia, we

wouldn't have got a year out of it. Yeah. And the thing is, we didn't decide to do a podcast about a book series. We decided to do a podcast about a book series, if we'd done Narnia, we wouldn't have got a year out of it. Yeah. And the thing is, we didn't decide to do a podcast about a book series. We decided to do a podcast about Discworld. About Discworld. Yeah, it wasn't we wanted to do a podcast or we wanted to talk about books on a podcast. It's we wanted to talk about Discworld on a podcast. Or we talk about Discworld so much, we might as well record ourselves doing it and see if we can make it coherent. The answer was no, but it was a fun experiment.

It was a fun experiment and it continues to be a fun experiment. We're having fun, Francine. This is fun. I know, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Enjoy yourself. I'm just, it's fun. It's just not coherent.

That's all. Anthony asked, did we sign up for the Modiphius Discworld RPG and get the quick start, which I did not, because I'm really short on time right now. I'm really looking forward to this new RPG. I think it's going to be really fun. I just have to wait until I have hit deadline and then I can enjoy my life again. Yeah. And you know, then we've got a nice bonus episode lined up for after the schedule stuff's done. Yeah, we may even like try and record ourselves playing it. I'm sure that will go well. Yeah.

Possibly, maybe. Might need to find someone else to join in with that. Alan didn't take us to Graff with audio equipment. That's a thing for the future. Dennis asks, do you have any actors cast in the multi-billion dollar adaptation of the books that you'll inevitably helm after the podcast finishes? Narrativia, call us, we have thoughts. Well, the thing is, yes, I fucking did. I had one. Yeah. Very much in my head. And she literally just died. Was that Mackie Smith? Mackie Smith is Granny Weatherworks. This is a RIP Mackie Smith who passed away the day we're recording this, which is very sad.

I know. I was on a team school with one of my colleagues, most of the afternoon, we were doing some auditing stuff. And she opened the news halfway through and she's like, right, okay, stop what you're doing. We're having a break. Maggie Smith has died. I'm like, fuck. Close the window. I thought that we were working on. Shit. What are we going to do? There's nothing we can do. Oh, God. It is, I know it wasn't her favorite thing that she'd ever done, but I did go and watch a compilation of like her best moments from Downton Abbey because I love her on it. Oh, yeah. I mean, she was fantastic. She was the best part about that. There's a thing called Tea with the Dames, something like that.

Oh, and it's Harry Chitty Dench. Yeah, there's a British title for it and I can't remember what it is, but when I remember, I'll link it in the show notes. I've seen a bunch of clips from it. We showed it at the cinema, I was working at the time, and that kind of thing was the sort of thing that the particular crowd of customers we had at the cinema loved. This was the place where we would put on extra staff when our best exotic Marigold hotel film came out. Not so much a new Marvel movie.

I ended up seeing odd clips of it because I'd go and watch a little bit if I had a bit of time to kill. I've not sat and watched the whole thing. We should do that. Jack was telling me, because he listens to Radio 4 while he's working, somebody told him an anecdote about Maggie Smith. And it was one of the many shows where she was working and she was actually in Stately Home. And everybody was turning up to the Stately Home and Leonis had been very kind and let them film in there.

And they said, you know, please don't fuck up the gardens, but poshly. Yeah. And everybody was queuing very respectfully all the way up this long, long driveway. And then the producer saw a car kind of speed over the lawn, cutting the queue. Like, who the fuck is that? And out of the car, of course, gets Maggie Smith. Incredible. And Lisa goes, of course, it's Maggie. Fantastic. Maggie, Maggie Smith. Of course it's Maggie. I put two Oscars, I'm not waiting in a queue. I don't think she actually said that, but that was definitely implied. But yeah, Maggie Smith as Granny Weatherwax and Miriam Margulies as Nanny Og is kind of the, I think the most popular fan casting for Discworld.

I refuse out of respect for Maggie Smith and because I didn't write any more answers, I'm going to ask you to take over now. Out of respect for Maggie Smith and because they are such popular fan castings, I've not suggested anyone else for Granny Weatherworks on Any Og. One, I have noted a few down. I've been, as I might have said in the soft open, rewatching Once Upon a Time recently, so a lot of the people on my brain are from that because that's how I remember actors is what I've watched most recently and honestly I've also been watching Agatha Roll along

but I couldn't think of anyone that Catherine Hahn could really play in the Discworld apart from maybe Sakurissa Crippslock. What about, oh what's her name? Oh, Diamandotoclu. I think she could do that. But no, the older one. Do you mean Mrs. Ewig? Yeah, Mrs. Ewig.

Oh no, I have a different suggestion for her, but Catherine Hahn would also be really good in that. If we had to cast her as something. Yeah, if I had to cast her as that. I think she could maybe do a saccharistic ribs lock. Or the Duchess. Oh, she would actually be amazing as the Duchess.

Okay, there we go. We found her apart. Now tell me who. One I've said a lot in the past and I'm obsessed with the idea of is, hang on. I've got signal open listeners so that Joanna can send me pictures of these people because as we all know, I'm incapable of remembering anybody's face. So yeah one I've mentioned a lot is Giancarlo Esposito, this guy as Lord Vettinari, I think he would be amazing. Yeah he was in community right? Yes he was in community, he was in Breaking Bad which I don't think you've watched, there's Gus Fring, Mandalorian, he was great in that. He was also in Once Upon a Time as the Magic Mirror, but I've been obsessed with the idea of him as Vesenari for a very long time.

Yeah, now I can see that. And then I thought if I'm casting a drum knot, if I'm casting a Vesenari, I need a drum knot. So I have gone with Ismael Cordova, who plays Arundir in Rings of Power, because I think he's got that really good like, A, he's kind of ageless because Drumknot seems like young but also a very old soul. He's got that kind of ageless look. And he also looks like he could look nerdy but secretly slussy. And as we know, my favorite head foundation, this headcanon is that Drumknot's a slag. head foundation, this head cannon is that drum nots a slag. Yes, yeah. I choose to ignore that head cannon. But I understand your need to fan cast it correctly. Yeah. And then again, because of Once Upon a Time, Lana Parrilla as Mrs. Ewig, this is her as the Evil Queen from Once Upon a Time. And she just very much has that vibe and she's just really pretty and I want to see her in more

things. And Emily de Ravin, I think, would make an amazing Magra. She was Claire in Lost. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think she has the right vibe because she looks like she could be a bit kind of lost with wilting flowers in her hair, but then could also strap on armour when she needed to. Yeah, yeah. her hair but then could also strap on armor when she needed to. Yeah, yeah. And then, oh, and then one last one. I was mostly thinking about women for this obviously.

But Pedro Pascal is in like everything at the moment. He's doing lots of IP stuff. So I felt like we needed to get Pedro Pascal in somewhere. Okay, sure. Yeah. I feel like I don't- You can fucking Disney about it. What?

If you want to be Disney about it. Well, I mean, he's doing Marvel and I didn't really need to send you a picture of Pedro Pascal. He's just pretty. No, but that's fine. Thank you. Well, I mean, yeah, he's doing like Star Wars and Marvel for Disney and he's doing Last of Us. He's really good on Last of Us. Oh, no, what I mean is it's Disney's thing to go, he's been a lot of IP, let's get him in everything. Yeah, no, that is very much what they've done with Pedro Pascal. So I feel like we need him in this. So I think him as human Grebow. Yeah. I can think of anyone else.

He's not sloopy enough. I think he could have you not seen Game of Thrones? Well, surely David Tennant's human Grebow. David Tennant could also be human Grebow, but I wanted to put Pedro Pascal in somewhere. And actually, I've now decided Michael Sheen is drum-knocked. Okay, yeah, no, Michael Sheen is drum-knocked. I was hoping this conversation would spark my memory of some other people who existed. So this is going well. This is good.

Okay, amazing. Anyway, yeah, that's all I've got for now. There's plenty of other ideas I could have, but I'll not subject us to too many. But yeah, no, no. Maybe if on bonus episode one day we could do like a full fan casting, but like argue our case for each. I have somewhere a full like, not script, but outline of how I would adapt The Watch Books as a TV series for like a first season because I was really annoyed at that TV

series we don't talk about. Yeah, I remember you telling me at the time. Yeah. Yeah, I got far too into that project. Or rather, I remember you telling me you were about to do that and then I seemed you had because that isn't something you would decide not to do suddenly. No, that is the sort of thing I would do when I should be working very much when I should be doing literally anything else. It's the nice thing about having far too many interests, but at least something gets done. Something happens. Something always happens. Tamsin asked us, are there any characters that you would have liked to be more fleshed out? I mentioned she would have absolutely loved a Sybil spin-off. How about you? I would have liked to see some Luce backstory.

Oh, that would have been good. And also, as we were talking about earlier, I would have loved to see Cohen the Barbarian's POV. And so the same kind of weird from his narrative perspective, as we got an interesting times, but written by like peak Pratchett. So like last hero era. But and I loved the last hero and I don't think it should have been written in that way because obviously it is what it is. But I would have liked to see. Yeah, I would have liked to have another barbarians book maybe.

Yeah, I can see that. I know we got maybe a couple short stories around that time. I can't actually remember what was written when. But yeah, more of him. More him. I like that. How about you? I would love some time in Adora's point of view. Because I like her going off and having an adventure without Moist and something from that. Okay, yeah. Because so much of what we see of Adora is from Moist's point of view.

That was nice, yeah. More time with Angua as well, just in general. I liked the fleshing out of Angua we got. Yeah, it would have been fun to continue with that. But then again, I suppose keeping her a little mysterious is fun. It's also fun in the latest age book seeing her playing on the werewolf mystery. We see her do it with Polly in Monster's Regiment and then we see her do it again in I Shall Wear Midnight with Tiffany. And the same in my head. I was going to say Madame Sian and, oh, what's his name? Pepe. Pepe. But again, I feel like that slight mystery is important for them. Rick Kelly maybe?

Yeah. Again, is he flashing out or is he perfect as years? He is important for them. Ridgely maybe. Yeah, again, is he flashing out or is he perfect as he is? He is perfect as he is. He's perfect as he is. Oh, maybe he's my favorite character. All right, he's up there. He's on a slightly different level, but he's up there. Yeah, he's definitely on the shelf. He's built his own podium withdrawals for his trophies. Yeah. his own podium withdrawals for his trophies. Yeah. And flasks. And he's running up and down the stairs in a helpful manner. Also, because I would really feel sad if I didn't make this pun. Death, of course. Needs more fleshing out. My apologies. Fancy.

Moving on. Another question from Tamsin. Pratchett kept tackling moral issues through different Discworld characters and plot lines, which is one of my favorite things about the books. If there were more books, is there anything you would have wanted him to cover? Right. You go first on this one. I feel like AI would be the big one, something about soulless artwork being created and the ramifications on Lspace. I think I may be thinking almost more in the direction of science of Disco with that, but I feel like something about where we're getting to and the culture

of using language models and some of these art models a lot is something Prachat could have potentially written about well. Yeah, it's weird to think how much the conversation on that's changed because I mean, you could easily say that the Golems, him talking about AI, it is an artificially generated intelligence. But obviously, what we are now calling AI is not really AI. It's that as you said, large language models. And yeah, seeing that. Yeah, seeing like, yeah, hex or something, deciding to write all of the books of the next century. And yeah, yeah, that would be cool. I'd like to see him do unions. Yeah. I think he would have definitely done that eventually. And also I would have liked to see more stuff on and I know we got some more gods but in Antmoor Pork, I want to see more gods airing their dramas. And how people who I would think of as natural atheists who can't be because of where they are would deal with it. How do vines and veterinary deal with like, what is the Zeus equivalent, blind eye or whoever coming down and making a fuss in their city? CHARLEYY Yes. I love that idea. MIA Yes. How do the priests and the wizards and the police interact and piss each other off for a

book? CHARLEYY That would be fun. And this is the Vimes who once arrested veterinary and the idea of Vimes arresting a god. MIA Yeah. CHARLEYY All funnier, knob Vimes arresting a god. Or funnier, Nobby Nobbs arresting a god. Yeah. Yeah, I think it would have to be. Which god are we going to arrest? Yeah, no, I think blind IO, you'd have to go straight for the top, wouldn't you? Or Ofla. Ofla would be funnier. Yeah. But I think blind IO appearing in various forms also just a delight background of a book.

Yes. Yeah, trying to seduce an ankle for key and woman by turning into a swan or a shower of gold and they're like, what the fuck are you doing? What are you?" Getting kicked out, getting kicked into the pond by Mrs Palm or something. Yeah, or kicked out of the mended drum. Carrot trying to arrest a swan definitely goes into hot fuzz territory, so we'll leave that one there. But yeah, unions I think would be a really interesting idea, especially because you already have the guild system in place, so you have the beginnings of unions there. CHARLEYY Yeah, yeah. Cool. I definitely had more of these. I had a list somewhere but unfortunately I think I might have written it on paper like a champs I'll never find it now.

CHARLEYY Oh god definitely not. No, not at all. Yidian, whose name I'm probably still not saying properly, I'm very sorry, our condiment correspondent. CHARLEYY Condiment correspondent, very important. CHARLEYY Actually, we haven't had a briefly, very important. Actually, we haven't had a... briefly before we go into this, as we haven't had a condiment chair for a while, any thoughts on condiments recently? Any new ones you're into? Oh, it's a sort rather than something I'm into, but somebody told me they were doing a roast potato mayonnaise now.

Oh. That doesn't sound good, does it? I can only imagine it's just rosemary flavored. How else would you make a potato mayonnaise? Yeah, no. I mean, technically, you can blitz anything into mayonnaise. But just because you can doesn't mean you should. Also, I watched somebody make a Blackberry curd on TikTok. And I'm quite fancy at that now.

Oh, I made a curd condiment. I'd say a curd's a condiment. I made big batches of orange curd and lemon curd for my partner's birthday cake earlier in the year and it put me right off curd making. I had to stand on whisk for so fucking long. Oh yeah, no. Yeah. I forgot about that aspect of curd making. This is why I buy curd. I was showing off and I made my own. I'm very into grommelata at the moment.

Remind me what that is? It's like parsley and garlic and lemon with a little bit of olive oil and you can sort of put it on anything but I really like it on little roasty potatoes. I'm not even sure, is it condiment or is it sauce, is it a dressing? Yeah, there's a little bit of all of those. It's in the family. It's definitely in the family. Anyway, those are our condiment thoughts for the day.

Actual questions from years the end and ask about condiments. How has the podcast affected your friendship, if at all? All right. Nice easy one to start with. Yeah, diving in in the shallow end. That's a terrible place to dive in, Joanna. Yeah, no, we don't recommend that. There are signs up for a reason. All right, sorry. It's hard to say, I would say, because we're very different people than we were five years ago. Merle We really are.

Sarah-Jane Deeb I'd say it's probably removed the possibility of those changes making us drift apart. Clearly, I've done a pre written statement, if you can't tell. Yes, but removing the possibility of those changes making us drift apart. And I've always thought it a shame that we didn't know each other as children. Because we're so similar. And so it would have been even more of a shame for us to turn into very specific type of odd we are now and not remain close friends. Although I think it's unlikely, I'm glad that the podcast made it certain that we were not allowed to stop talking to each other regularly. No, I mean before the podcast even started, the way we socialised had changed massively.

I do think it's helped keep us close because we are both the sort of person who means nothing by it but just does not reach out and suggest things. I'm delighted to be invited to things but does not suggest things. I feel like if we hadn't had the weekly Zoom call. Yeah. It's difficult once you take pubs out of the equation. And even if you do still leave pubs in the equation, once you stop being, you know, once you stop working in town and just ending up in the same pub after work every day. Yeah, exactly. All right. What have you written in this shallow end that we just broke our necks in?

I think I don't think it's badly affected our friendship at all. I think the thing that I've felt most about this podcast and our friendship is that I would not have got through lockdown without it because we were in touch without the podcast during lockdown. We were writing each other letters and we had a group chat. We were chatting in constantly. You obviously weren't the only person I was in contact with in lockdown and I was doing Zoom pub quiz with a group of people I used to see every week. But there was something about having another point of contact really made a world of difference, especially because I went through quite a rough time mentally in the first lockdown when my life caught fire. It did catch fire a bit, didn't it? Yeah. I do remember that even there was a time that I

cancelled podcast recording literally five minutes before we were due to start because I was like, I can't do it. I can't sit for an hour and talk in a structured way. And then we decided to just log on and talk anyway for an hour, which helps a lot. So yes, it made a massive difference. Yeah. Well, I feel like we're in couples therapy and it's going well. So that's good. Thank you for the long session we've session. Five years of Custle Therapy. But it's helped us. It's unorthodox. Another one from Yezien. What was the moment you really

regretted starting the podcast? I've had a few of these. Oh yeah, you go first then. Yours are going to be less obvious than mine. I think every time we start recording, and at least one of us is really tired and grumpy, and we always manage to perk each other up by the time we get through the soft open. There have definitely been moments where we've logged on and gone, why the fuck are we doing this? Yeah.

Like 100% what is this? I'd say going back to the friendship part, if we hadn't already been close friends, with a fear of disappointing each other, we would have never made it through some of the, oh my god, how are we going to do this moments? GER The biggest moment, or regressive start in the podcast, was when we recorded a whole episode but we didn't hit record. I think it was one of our Small Gods episodes. STACEY I think this has traumatised you more than

it has me. I don't really remember feeling. I mean, obviously I was pretty cross about it. But I think it was one of those where I was like, because there was nothing to fix, I was like, well, I guess we're doing it again. Whereas for me, my big moments come where there's been a huge audio issue. And I've got an episode and I then have to spend the whole weekend fixing it. Yeah. That is understandable. Whereas if it was gone, I was like, okay, well, the solution is to record another one. Yeah.

Whereas I'm sitting there going, there must be a way to fix this. I also, I know I'm not the one doing the fixing, like you do amazing work with our audio, but I also regret starting the podcast when I do that, because I start having this feeling of like, what if Francine hates me forever, because I made her do this podcast with me and now I've ruined her weekend. I think the important thing is I would quit the podcast before I hated you. Yes, no, I am fully aware of that. Oh yeah, no, rationally. Rationally, yes.

Emotionally, everyone hates me. Emotionally, we're a mess. Yes, emotionally. Which is weird because actually my life is really good right now. I just have a deadline. That's just really pre-mess now. I just have a deadline. That's just really bad. I just have a deadline. I have to go clean tomorrow and so I'm in turmoil.

I'm slightly hormonal. I realized I was out of rice once I'd started making a dish that required rice yesterday and just lost it. I had also instead. It worked fine instead of rice but I didn't want also. I wanted rice. It was the worst thing in the world possible. It's different just because it's the same size. Yeah, it's not the same thing. It was horrible. I know it also in ages though. That would be nice with that thing you said. What, gremolasa? Oh yeah, like a nice orzo, some of that on top, maybe some like grilled prawns or something.

Oh yeah, I was thinking like fresh chopped tomatoes in it as well. Oh yeah, that would be good. Anyway. I have eaten already believe it as well. Oh, yeah, that would be good. Anyway, I have eaten already, believe it or not. So yeah, times you regret starting the podcast? Oh, yeah, no, just the audio issues, really. What have I got here? Yeah, no, literally, I've just written down when there's audio issues. What was the moment you were insanely glad you started the podcast? I've written down during lockdown, was the first thing I wrote. Yeah. At the Discworld con. Yeah,

that was amazing. And whenever I listened to an older clip that I've forgotten, because I listen to it and I go, we've had a lot of fun for five years to the point where I don't remember 90% of it. And you know, we've now got that forever. Yeah, Like all of that shit's just out there now and other people listen to it and we've listened to it and it's really fun. I definitely had that feeling that when you found the clips of us trying to summon a demon over Zoom. Yeah. I should do I should share stuff like that more with you because quite often I'll be digging through for something or other. because quite often I'll be digging through for something or other and I find three of... It was like when we were at the Discworld con and I was searching for something we'd said on a topic. It might have been folklore, it might have been one of the Tiffany books before we went down for one of the live bits. And I was skipping through very old episodes and like doing the 30 seconds forward bit on Acastle or whatever it is, Pocket Casts. And yeah, just like five seconds snippets of us,

it was like a fucking comedy sketch of like... Completely out of context, no segues, nothing makes sense. Ah, that was fun. How about you? I think obviously the same as you, Lockdown Yes and then doing the convention was amazing and getting to meet listeners and things, but also just every time someone said like the podcasters helped them in even the smallest way, just like you guys made me laugh or it was nice having you guys during lockdown, like that's sort of a, oh yeah, we're not just screaming into a void, we're doing something and there's a meaningful connection with people and that's really wonderful. It makes me really happy we do this. We did at one point, somebody sent us a message talking about alcoholism and that I had talked

about alcoholism in a certain way that they not enjoyed, but you know, were grateful for. And it was almost word for word, an email that I had sent somebody else, one of my podcast heroes a few years prior. And that was the very moment. Yeah. That was one of the moments of all time. Similarly, we've had emails from a couple of listeners where they've said, you know, the way I've talked about gender identity and things has been really helpful. And as someone who has literally gone on this sort of journey.

and as someone who has literally gone on this sort of journey. And you fucking journeyed you on a journey. Through gender and beyond. But I've been figuring out my gender identity, like as we've been making the podcast. That's what I mean with such different people. Like, how can I say what our friendship is compared to five years ago when we were fucking out canvassing for not quite five years ago longer, but out canvassing for labor and like extreme, you very much identified as a woman or at least outwardly. And like, yeah, it was, we were so young.

It's weird, it's so weird to think about, like literally you were basically the first person I came out to and all that happened was I made a comment and you went, ah, gender fields. And I went, yeah, and you went, all right. And that was it. And that's turned into this whole thing on the bus. So every time it turns out something I've said might have helped someone else. It's like, well, these little things I've heard have helped me so much. It means a lot, like personally, if any of that's helped anyone ever.

What kind of do any like podcasts that you listen to stick out as helping you in that way? I mean, less on gender, but on queerness in general buffering the vampire slayer is such a great one to listen to because you know, both the hosts are queer and just really out and open about it. So that's been that's been a lot and through that podcast, then like finding a little community of sort of, okay, 90% of the people here aren't straight. Yeah. And there's especially getting to go and be in the physical space going to a buffering event for the first time

this year. And it was just like, I and be in the physical space going to a buffering event for the first time this year. And it was just like, I mean, it's hell of a podcast. You go to New York for Yeah. Use my books and excuse totally an excuse. I just really wanted to go to the prom. We all knew that. But yeah, it's just it's so rare I get to be in a space where like, I'm definitely not the only queer in the room. Most of the people are, it doesn't happen often. No, not where we live. No, definitely not where we live. And I'm going to do this unsmoothly, but going on to the next question,

what's the weirdest segue you can record in a podcast? That's from Dennis. Well, do you remember any specific ones? Literally all of these have left my brain forever. I'm so sorry. This is like when you ask me, you know, Oh, what's your favourite singer? Never heard music in my life. Fuck's that. I think the problem with weird segues is that because they barely connect to the episodes, I'm even less likely to remember them than usual. I know we've had some ridiculously bad ones. The moment that amused me so much, I made it into a promo clip. And therefore, I do remember because one of my favorites and I've reposted it was when we were talking about, oh, goodness me, one of the

Wiches books, the one with bees. And we were talking about Hodgach, and then going on to Mr. Brooks, the Royal Beekeeper. And your segue was anyway, so birds exist. Mr. Brooks, the Royal Beekeeper and your segue was anyway, so birds exist. Mr. Brooks, the Royal Beekeeper and it was so bad I had to interrupt you. I go from the birds to the bees Joanna. It was right there. Oh god, I do remember that one. This is just after I'd finished apologizing for being a dick and I couldn't help it. just after I'd finished apologizing for being a dick and I couldn't help it. Things you don't have to apologize for being a dick. It's one of my favorite things about you. I think it's just been one of those mornings.

I can't remember a specific segue. I do remember a specific, it made it into one of our promo clicks was just us going segue, segue, segue. And it plays just that little sound plays in my head, especially there was a tweet that went viral a few weeks ago of like podcasters, did you know you don't have to point out when you do a good segue? And I felt really personally attacked. I know to the point actually that tweet kind of lives in my head. And I may have like avoided pointing out segues since then. Not effectively, but you know, I thought

about avoiding it. Yeah, I do it less maybe. But when you're doing it, so it was really 90% of the time. Why are we trying to change at this point? Yeah, our journey has been mainly segue. Yeah. Not that easy branded segue like the good bit of mine there on the podcast. A song is now playing in my head and I'm going to be really nice to our listeners and not reference it so they don't get it in their heads as well. Sorry. That was enough to do it.

I shouldn't have even done that. That's like saying that, you know, oh, I'm not going to mention anyone losing the game. Yeah. Oh, fuck Joanna. I lost. All right. I've gone full chaos now. You know what, fuck Joanna. I lost. All right. I've gone full chaos now. Do you know what?

We're going to ruin everyone's day. There we go. Fine. There we go. I'm not even going to edit that out. Amazing. Um, Sonder Vogel asks, what's your favorite rabbit hole you went down because of something in a Discworld novel?

Okay. So this might have been before, I was into folklore before the podcast, like a section of folklore books that I've had for years and years and years and years. But surely it was this world that sparked it was my thinking. Yeah, because when I'm trying to answer this question, I literally just looked at my bookshelves. I was like, right, I'm one of these right. And I was like, I thought it must have gotten me into this stuff. It's all very, you know, the kind of stuff we'll be interested in anyway, but there are specifics that I definitely like, sort out. Yeah. But then I guess, otherwise, we've got nuclear semiotics, we've got bees, mirrors superstition, long time ago, but it was very cool. I enjoyed looking into like, looking into looking into whether you wear people covered mirrors with sheets and during a storm and things like that. I just remember really enjoying that little rabbit hole because it's like spanned the entire world.

Yeah. Superstition. Yeah. How about you? I mean, similar to you in that a lot of the story, like fairy tale and things stuff I was already really into and I don't think that was 100% Pratchett. I think I was always very into the idea of like, weird fairy tales, you know, when I was doing Gothic literature, we did Angela Carter's Bloody Chamber and that sort of thing and there's other authors I've read that like to play with fairy tales. you were you were you got into this world a little bit later didn't you like your literature taste was already there. Yeah, I find it hard to remember like a time we went into Pratchett. But yeah, going into a lot of fairy tale origin stuff in more depth was really fun. Yeah. The

especially like, it's not quite fairy tale really, but the Pied Piper history when we're doing Amazing Morris, that was really fun. That really enjoyed that rabbit hole. That was good. Putting together the history of vampire novels and going more deep into it. Because I say studying Gothic literature, it was like half of an A-level course that I didn't finish. I did not technically finish school. But I've got more into it again as an adult and I have that little foundation from the bits of school I do remember. So yeah, going into the history of vampire novels and gothic literature for Carpe Jugulam was so fun. I think not quite a rabbit hole, but my favourite book I bought because of the podcast and then had much fun diving into is Brewer's Guide to Rogues Villains and Eccentrics. So fun. Oh, we should do another stuff and nonsense based on that.

We should do another stuff and nonsense based on that. Now we both have copies. Okay, cool. For more of our rabbit holes listeners, check out the Patreon. Yes, and we'll have full PowerPoint presentations as we always threaten to do. Hopefully there'll be a new one soon. There will. There will.

I've got pages of sewer research. That doesn't sound as entertaining as it is, but it is. Oh, I can't wait to hear you talk about sewers. Yay. I do think my favorite rabbit hole you've done that wasn't even really connected to anything we were talking about on the podcast is the nuclear semiotics one. I don't remember how I justified that. You didn't. You just really wanted to talk about nuclear semiotics and I really wanted to hear you talk about nuclear semiotics,

so we talked about nuclear semiotics. I also hate being that guy, but we did that literally a couple of weeks before nuclear semiotics became a meme. No, we did. We did. You and I had been texting about nuclear semiotics for a few weeks. Really? I wasn't annoyed at the time. I was like, fantastic, everyone else is on this now. But now I'm worried it's long enough that the time bleed makes people think that I did it because of the memes. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. But I just want people to know. We were into it before it was cool.

Yeah, we were into nuclear semiotics before it was cool. It's possible I learned about it first through no such thing as a fish. But that's fine. Because that's where the other half of my brain comes from. Yeah. All of your brain that's not fractured. It's fractured or that. There are five people living in my head. Those four presenters and Terry fractured. It's fine. my head. Those four presenters and Terry Pratchett. It's fine. It's completely fine. Sorry, Francine's eyes twitching there a little bit for those who are listening. And then Laura asked, and obviously we're going to have this question, what are you going to do after you've recorded your last Terry Pratchett related podcast? Any great plans? I mean, immediately afterwards, I'm going to check the audio.

Yeah. Make sure it's... Now I'm going to check the audio. Yeah, I'm gonna edit it. Well, the thing is, we'll never have recorded our last Terry Pratchett related podcast, we'll always be podcasting about Terry Pratchett. That's true. And our hearts have nowhere to go. Oh, fuck. All right, yeah, but like the last one on our schedule, I guess.

Yeah, the Shepherds Ground is kind of, kind of the end. Yeah, or the retrospective, whatever. But yeah. I mean... Gormunghast. Oh, fuck. I forgot about Gormunghast. Literally, I forgot about Gormunghast. That just hit me like a work task I'd forgotten to do. For listeners that have been with us from the beginning, no, I have still not read Gormunghast. We're not becoming a Gormunghast podcast. No. Oh, rhymes though. Gorman-Garce. All right, we might have to make a Gorman-Garce podcast just so we can call it Gorman-Garce.

Yeah. Okay. But I would like to spend some time organizing the annotations we've done. Yeah. And making something proper out of the website. Like we have got so much stuff. Like we've got so much stuff from the last five years, the research we've done, like the annotations we made of every book, I think we have pulled stuff, especially after like, the annotate ratchet started winding down, we've pulled stuff out that I am A, confident about and B, have not seen anywhere else. Yeah.

And like, I think it would be cool to get that up somewhere. Yeah. But I mean, I think the longer term, once we finish The Shepherd's Crown, and we sort of do, we're gonna do that and then some wrap ups. That's kind of November and there's some wrap up stuff in December. And some possible other bonus stuff coming that's very exciting that we can't talk about. Sorry, I just want to say that there because I'm really excited. We're going to take a break. We have earned a break. We're going to take a few months off. Because I think we need that. Not to say there probably won't end up being the old random bonus episode in those few months because we are. Yeah, but the spreadsheet is having a rest. The spreadsheet is resting. We're resting. Francine gets a break from audio editing. I might put the post-its in a cupboard.

Where do they live now? On one of my little barcards next to where I'm the spot on the sofa I normally sit when I'm doing my podcast notes. We obviously thank you very much. We used all of your old moving boxes to move house with. And one of the ones like with all our living room stuff in was originally labeled bar cart. And I crossed it out and wrote like Misk living room. And then I loved myself like, oh, in case I accidentally get it mixed up with our bar cart. How many people have bar cart books? Well, I like having them because then you can put little baskets on them and you store little things.

They're great. It's a great idea. But I just had a little like chuckle to myself. Like, don't forget the hostess trolley box. And I do now have my dining room arranged. So I actually have a bar cart that has like all my drinks and things on it. Oh, lovely. Oh, I'm glad.

Are you ever gonna get a glazed with a... That's what Jack wants. We don't drink anymore, but I think I know, put some I ambrute in there for him. Yeah, I would quite like to get one for up here, but I've got quite limited floor space left in this room. And I'm trying to work out if there's a way to have any kind of bed in here for guests. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, podcast, podcast. So yes, we're to take a break. I think our vague, vague plans at the moment are over the next year once we've had a break is that we are possibly going to have a look at the Long Earth books because we haven't done those yet. We're

also going to probably revisit some big themes of Terry Pratchett's, maybe even spotlight a couple of individual books. Now we can sort of talk about them with spoiler context. I would like to talk about some of the documentaries. Yeah. We haven't really talked about a slip of the keyboard in any depth. No we've talked about odd essays from a slip of the keyboard but not the piece as a whole. Lots of short stories we haven't really talked about. Yeah like the longer term plan, I think, not as long as work and life and everything allows us that we'll keep podcasting about books. Whenever there's new things in the world of Disquad and stuff to talk about, we'll talk about those and we may pick another book series to talk about alongside that that's not a Pratchett series, which we have a couple of ideas in mind for what that book could be. Not the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy before you reply to this. I love Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

I think pulling it apart would ruin it for me. Yeah, I don't think podcasting about hitchhikers guide to the galaxy would be fun. I think that's best left as it is to be read and enjoyed. So it's like it's similar to like Woodhouse in that respect for me. I think because it's just a perfect comedy to me. I'd love to do a Woodhouse episode, but it would just be us reading the funniest bits out of each other, which I think would be fine. I think we should do a Woodhouse episode. You're not getting rid of us that easily.

We're not going away once we've finished The Shepherd's Crown. You could always just unsubscribe if you needed to get rid of us. But don't do that. Don't. We'll be sad. We won't know. But we'll be sad. Every time I listen around subscribes, Joanna's tiara falls off. I'm putting it behind my headphones. Thankfully for all time, you do now have on video the bit where I took my headphones off but had the tiara in front of them and hit myself in the face with my own tiara.

Just if you need that for anything, we'll try and make a gift. Print out a still and put it on the fridge. Yeah, we'll make a gif of it for the listeners. That's the modern day putting on a fridge. Anyway, random non podcast questions. Yocien asked if I'll be buying slash playing Dragon Age Veilguard, eagerly awaiting the sequel when apps coming, I've had second thoughts. Also, Yocien said, do you ever play the multiplayer? I often play it with my friend Francine, down in the Twilight Zone. I don't play the multiplayer, that's In it with my friend Francine, the Twilight Zone. I don't play the multiplayer, that's Inquisition, because I don't really play a lot of multiplayer games,

because I don't like people. But Dragon Age Veilguard, I am very, very, very excited for, and that's why I haven't asked my publisher to push my book deadline back any further than the end of October, because that's when the game comes out. So I'm planning on having the book finished so I can play the game. Oh, smart. Yeah. Yeah. I have motivation more compelling than your career. For context for listeners, you want to wear Dragon Age is a series of games from Bioware that I am deeply obsessed with. And this new one, it's been 10 years since the last game and now the new ones coming out. I'm very excited.

These games mean a lot to me. They're some of my favorite video games ever. They're the video games that got me into RPGs. Literally nothing that could have come out pre this game or the advertising and stuff could have put me off it and so far almost nothing has. There's been one minor bit of controversy in the last couple of days. Basically, the devs have come out and said they've released early Act 1 footage of the game. Lots of people watch play and basically there's only a few choices from the last game that carry over into the new one. And so there's lots of people very upset that all their choices from the first and second

games won't be relevant at all and that they're not doing anything more with all the different choices you can make in the third games because these are games that can have very different choices and endings based on what you do. Which I don't mind that much, but people are very up in arms about. But from a writing perspective, it makes a ton of sense to not put in things like, for example, there's a character from the second game. And it would make sense for that character to have some kind of cameo in this game because of where this game is set in the world. Sidebar that my favourite detail ever, so the world in Dragon Age is called Thedas, which is the Dragon Age setting and was a placeholder

name during the early dev cycle that they just never took it. Delights me. Delights me. My second favorite game, in fact, my first being that the train in Fallout is just an NPC with a hat. Oh, yeah, I love that. The immovable fly in Skyrim. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, so there's like a character in the second game. And depending on choices you're making that second game, there would be 16 different options for how that character could or could not be presented in this game. And if you think that's like a really, that's one small detail if you think about that, that many times over. I don't mind that these characters aren't being mentioned. Yeah, I think that seems fine. I think it's okay. But yeah, apart from that,

yes, very hype for Veilguard will be playing on release day. Apart from that, yes, very hyped for Veilguard will be playing on release day. And then more from you, Zien. Francine, what is your favourite thing that Joanna cooks? Either Christmas breakfast or that honey cake you make. That's fair. The Christmas breakfast, I should probably elaborate because I'm talking to people other than Joanna, as I recall occasionally. Was it brioche toast or just normal toast? I don't remember.

Brioche toast. I think Christmas breakfast I made for you would have been brioche toast and smoked salmon. And poked egg and hollandaise. Yeah. Yeah, but like homemade hollandaise. I get my night out. Yeah, it was amazing. I was so good. I still remember that. And I was like quite drunk already, probably by then. Yeah, I am quite, I'm quite heavy handed with the Bucks Fizz on Christmas morning. They're introduced as more of a suggestion.

I'm glad I've spent my last Christmas drinking with you. I've got so used to soloing Christmas morning. That's been the case for the last few years is I've kind of had a solo Christmas morning and then like people over for lunch or dinner or whatever. And this year I won't be because I've moved in with my partner and that's going to be very weird. And I have to think about the fact that I now have to buy enough like, smoke salmon and champagne and clementine juice for two. Hmm. That'll be nice. Oh, no, it'll be lovely. And I'm very much looking forward to it. But I'm currently

thinking- It's an excuse to accidentally buy enough for four. If you think I don't do that already, Francie, then we're not as close friends as I thought. I haven't done the honey cake this year, actually. I need to find someone to make the honey cake for before the end of the year. Oh, whose birthday? Most of our friends' birthdays are spring, aren't they? Yeah. My sister's is coming up, but she's lactose intolerant and that cake is like 90% whipped cream. I still made it for one of her birthdays in the past. How about you pick a man up and eat it? Fuck.

Oh no, she did. I made it for her birthday and she ate it. But I'm not going to do it to her again. Fair enough. Then I've got, what's my favourite thing that you cook? Which I've not eaten much of your cooking. No. The thing is, I was wondering what you were going to say here because I know we joke about it, like Joanna will talk about with the elaborate food she's making and I will often have gravy on chips. I can cook. I can cook quite well. I'm not talented. I'm me. But Joanna is controlling. No, I'm raging control freak.

I can't think of any nice way to say that. No, no, no, that is completely accurate. I am a control freak. Joanna is particular. That's the word I wanted. Joanna is particular about food. And therefore, there is no reason for me to be cooking at one of our get togethers. I think even when we live together, if I was contributing, I was getting a takeaway. It's not that like I don't want to be cooked for or I wouldn't go over if you invited me. It's just, I also know I enjoy cooking for like a large group of people, whereas other people will find that stressful. So of course, I'm going to offer to host because I will have fun spending a day in the kitchen beforehand. And for most people that's not the case. I've made a homemade picnic for my Hindu. I don't know if I've ever talked about that on the podcast and like half of it was vegan. That was so good. That was like a lot of my friends vegan, vegetarian-ish, pescatarian. And yeah, who knew that many picnic items

were available? They weren't even acorns or whatever else they eat in Red Bull. There was a lot of falafel. I'm not gonna lie, I was not the only person who brought falafel to that picnic. Yeah, the thing about vegans is falafel. It is falafel and tofu scrambles for something hot. The thing about Brighton, though, is that there are so many vegan places now. I didn't eat falafel one when I was there recently.

That's a shout. It looked like there was no sluffle around, but there were so many different options. That's a delight. We were talking about fantasy foods the other week, whatever. We didn't talk about the Turkish delight from Narnia. Oh, I thought we'd like put that on a band topic list because we've had that conversation. Oh, yeah, no, possibly. Somebody at work had Turkish light the other day. And that sparked my wish to talk about that several months ago.

Yeah. Why would you betray your family for that? Well, he's lived in Walter and Rushing and has no sugar and it's enchanted. And we probably could have got a year out of the Narnia books actually. Yes, but I really like CS Lewis as a vaguely recognised character in my head and I don't want to look into him any further. That's not true. I love reading about CS Lewis. You once did a whole bonus episode. I don't want to pull apart the allegory. I don't want to pull apart the allegory. I don't want to. I don't want to pull apart the allegory. I will say, favorite things that you cook, though, there was one time quite early in us making the podcast where I went over

to when I used to go to your house to record and I went over and you had just made bread. And we sat and before we started recording, we ate bread fresh out the oven and you make good bread. And just turning up to anyone's house and being given hot bread from the oven with butter. That was a good day. Yeah. I didn't even have to argue about that like we did with the scones. I didn't even make those scones. I think that's probably... I feel like we'll have to have a second scone off where I make scones. Anyway. I already told you you won.

No, I did win. I did win. I was right. And the Queen's dead so I can't even use that as an argument anymore. Rude of her. And yeah, last one from Yeojin. What's your favourite thing about each other? I'm gonna let you go first. Right. So unfortunately, we can't make eye contact at this point. We can't be sincerely nice to each other. So my combination, speaking of not being good at things. My combination favorite, least favorite thing about Joanna is that she's pretty good at pretty much anything she tries. Which I like, I like being around people who are good at things. I like the result of Joanna

being good at things. But I don't like it when she says, Oh, no, I'll be terrible at this. Because it's kind of like granny playing Prickle Mr. Onion. I'm not sure you know it as much as well as granny does. But I think there's a large part of your subconscious at least that goes, oh, no, I'll be terrible at this puzzle game that you just barely managed to do the first level of come back five minutes later, you have one level 50. I also like your willingness to be into whatever I'm into. It's very important to me to have a friend who's delighted when I send her a link to the Frozen Charlotte dolls of Victorian weirdness.

I want to say into is maybe not the right word for the Frozen Charlotte dolls. No, Frozen Charlotte dolls is a bad example, but it's the most recent bit of Victorian esoterica I can think of. Yeah. But yeah. And you're very patient and kind in practice, even if like me, you are internally seething much of the time. And I feel like granny would say actions do matter more than internal seething. Yes, we can all have an internal seething when we need to. That is very sweet. And again, very awkward about being nice to each other. This is horrible. Why are we doing this? Oh, that's fine. I'm looking at the night spot on the screen. That's cool. Also, that was all a bold face lie. And I'm not good at everything I put my mind to. I just don't let me see people be bad at things. That's why we don't go bowling together, Francine.

Oh, we've been bowling together. Yes, but not since you got sober. Not since you stopped drinking. got sober, not since you stopped drinking. I also used to work at that bowling alley, so I can't go in there and not at least have a drink just to get through the door. Lucky for you, Joanna, I have arthritis now so I can't drink a bottle. My hand hurts for like two days at Otterby Bowl now, so never mind. At least we proved the other week we're both still equally bad at pool. Yes. That's important. Very much equally bad. As your father said to us more than once, entire civilizations have risen and

fallen. The time it takes you to get to the end of a game of bloody pool. I just call that good value for money. I just call that good value for money. Yeah. I'm not bad at pool. I am cost effective at pool. Make that 50p last. Favorite things about Francine, I mean, she's great. Also, obviously pretty cool. Like her. Good podcaster. No, Francine is- You put it in a hell of a shift. No, Francine is- You put it in a hell of a shift. I've got a colleague always that's at the end of the day like in a pretty sarcastic way. I love it. Piedmont Francine, hell of a shift.

Sounds very egotistical to say that the things I love about Francine is that she puts up with me. But I am very grateful because we are. I love having someone who is willing, sort of like you said about getting enthusiastic about the same things, willing to be stupid about the same things as me and communicate in say pictures of frozen Charlotte dolls. Yes, yes. I think there aren't many people I think who would react as well as you did to me contributing to the episode plan only by pasting a picture of a Shiba Inu dog next to the word wow. Which you did while I was taking a swig of Diet Coke and very nearly spit it all over my keyboard. You are also just ridiculously intelligent and funny, which I'm trying to get this bit

over with very quickly because it's going to make Francie really uncomfortable when I'm nice. But seriously, I don't know anyone who is that like whip smart and just really good at stuff and also able to make me belly laugh in such a ridiculous way. It's basically just you and Georgia Nicholson. Hey, that is a compliment. Do you know what that might be the third thing that made my brain, the Georgia Nicholson books? I do feel like although we weren't friends when we were younger, the fact that we both read those books is probably a very key foundation of our friendship. Foundation wasn't there? I mean, just the fact that the phrase X in a skirt. So like, you know, oh, yeah, I did some

did a bit of gardening today. I'm basically a Franciscan monk in a skirt. Like, that phrase is never far from my mind. Just the I'm basically in a skirt. I never wear a skirt. Nippy noodles. Maybe we should do those next on the podcast. That actually would not be that idea. I feel like at some point, and it will definitely. Jacqueline Wilson has just brought out another girl's book, but like for adults. Yeah. I need to read that.

I do need to pick it up. I was obsessed with those books. I was slightly too young to read them. And I don't really want to think about how gross the teacher-student relationship actually was. Oh, I don't remember that bit. Oh no. Yeah, I'm not going to reread them I think. I suppose I better not.

Whatever. It's fine. We're not talking about that. Anyway, yeah, I love Francine. She loves me. That's enough being nice to each other. That was horrible. Hope you're happy, Jozien.

Yeah. Gross. Well, that's enough being nice to each other. That was horrible. Hope you're happy, Yozien. Yeah. Gross. Tamsin asks, have we gone hunting green men in churches yet? Which we haven't. No, I think that was part of the post podcast plan, wasn't it? Post podcast plan, the triple P we have a... Oh God, stop acronyming. Fancying, it's a Friday.

The abbreviation? No, it's not. I feel like it's... What is it? Initialization? Yeah. All right. Fine. I feel like springtime is the time we should go green man hunting. Yes, I think so too. I know we were kind of planning it this springtime, but life got away from us. Also, I will say actually, we've been meaning to do adventure folk-loring in general.

I would like this year if we can try and go to a Winter Solstice something because there are a few nearby us. Yes. I think we should try and do that together. We may try. Oh my god, for fuck's sake. Amazing folklore society thing that we both would have loved but it was on the weekend I was moving house. Oh, that's rude. It was an Ipswich. It was like, it was to do with the sea and like, I'd go around the sea. It was like 60 quid a ticket and it was the weekend I was meeting. The weekend after I was meeting,

I think. I can't justify the expense and leaving Jack to unpack. But yes, we are going to go Green Man hunting. We may try some kind of recording on the move technology and see if we can do a folk lands-esque Green Man podcast. We're not trying to turn our entire lives into content, but I think if we go on a folklore expedition it's worth trying to record something. Yeah, the thing is we're not trying to turn our entire lives into content, but we both write about this stuff and it seems odd not to at least make some kind of record of it. No, we will. We will. That will be an adventure. I think it'll be springtime, but we will try

some sort of winter solstice. It will be an adventure. I think it will be springtime. I love that. That's nice stuff. And last question. Katie has emailed us to say, I've just got a new to me cat. And I thought I had a name, but I'm not sure now. Can I have some suggestions? He is 12, blind, white with light brown patches and a very affectionate boy. So I've got Orpheus as my first suggestion. May or may not be because I've been watching Chaos. And then but if we're going Disworldian, which is, you know, probably on theme, I would say brother.

Oh, that'd be good. Lobsang or Lutze, just because I like those names, or Casananda. Casananda, excellent name for a cat. How about you? I went Disguildian, but I was trying to think of animal names, but not cats, because we don't have a ton of named cats and this boy doesn't sound like a grubo. No, no.

Uh, so I've gone with you bastard on the basis that, uh, it would be, you know, if he's a very sweet, affectionate boy, then it's ironic. And also- And you can call him Ubi. Or no, I was thinking you can call him Bast for short and Bastet is the Egyptian goddess of cats. Okay. Yeah, nice. Yes. Obviously there's some gender confusion there, but we support that on this podcast. It's a cat. Yeah, it's fine.

It's a cat. Gender's confused by cats, not the other way around. Oh, yeah, that's a good point. Cats are above gender. You can walk through the rain if you're a granny weather wax, which by the way, one of our listeners, and I can't remember who it was now, said that they tried walking through the rain a la granny weather wax. And I would like to confess that I also do that. If it's raining and I have no chance of staying dry, I just pretend I'm being granny weather wax and walk through the rain. Obviously, I do get wet because I'm not granny weather wax,

but it makes you feel better for the walk. And that is why I like to wear a wide brimmed hat when it's raining, so it's very difficult to wear that and also big over-wear headphones. Now, does that go on top of the front? Well, it's probably if you put the headphones on top, then it squishies the brim. But if you try and patch the hat on top of the headphones, the hat does nothing, it flies away. All right, well. On that wonderful note, we've to think about listeners send us your thoughts

about how to wear them on a fly away hat and allow it to fly in our direction. Hopefully it'll turn up. Speaking of my tiara is falling off again. Oh no, not subscribing listener. Well, I think that's all the questions we're going to answer today. That's all the questions we've got to answer. That's all the questions on my document and I'm not going any further than this. We will be back next week, week after? Week after. Week after. We'll be back on the 14th with our first episode on raising steam. We have pushed

things back a little bit and we're definitely not us trying to drag things out because we don't want to win the podcast. Definitely not. No, it's literally actually this time, so I've got to go to Devon for a wedding. I was giving you an out there, but fine. Oh, yeah, no, I'm sorry. I just prefer to admit to bad scheduling than to emotion. Yeah, that's fair. So yeah, page numbers forthwith incoming all of that. Goodness me, I'm sorry to hear that. I'm on my second bottle of Prosecco, Francie. They're very small bottles of Prosecco, I feel.

Okay, to clarify that for listeners. Page numbers will be coming. Keep an eye on all the usual places. You can rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts, please do, because we like people telling us we're good at things. Cheeky bit of self-promotion, my book Friends and the Golden Age of the Sitcom is out, finally. Is that? Properly. There are copies. There are copies.

I've got a box of copies sat right next to me. I'd hold one up for the video, but I can't quite reach the box from here. It's out. It's in bookshops. It may not say it's in stock everywhere because of weird ways wholesale works, and I can't quite reach the box from here. But it's out, it's in bookshops, it may not say it's in stock everywhere because of weird ways wholesale works and I don't understand that. If you want signed copies they're available on my website, I will put a link down below for that and for my publisher's website which is probably the cheapest place to get it if you want it internationally and you're not worried about a signed copy. So until we back with Raising Steam

you can join our Discord, link down below. You can follow us on Instagram at the Trueshell Makey Fret, on Twitter at bluesky at makeyfretpod, on Facebook at the Trueshell Makey Fret. You can join us on Reddit at r-ttsnyf, email us your thoughts, queries and castles and snacks and fly away hats, the trueshellmakeyfretpod.gmail.com. And if you want to support us financially, you can go to patreon.com forward slash the trueshellmakeyfret and exchange your hard earned pennies for all sorts of bonus nonsense. And until next time, dear listeners.

Don't let us detain you. Episode title, there will be an adventure, I think. Perfect.