The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - Bonus Pandemic Special - Extra by Default

Episode Date: April 2, 2020

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is usually a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan-Young and Francine Carrel, read and recap every book from Sir Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series in chronological order. This week, a bonus pandemic special! Your hosts take the time to interview each other - making the absolute most of our lockdown time.Weapons for Hands! Country Dancing! Sequins! Onions!Find us on the internet:Twitter: @MakeYeFretPodInstagram: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretFacebook: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: [e-mail] we blathered on about:Francine’s quarantine podcast recommendationsPerchance.orgLevellers - What A Beautiful DayDo by FridayOn Sundays we self-isolate in sequins. #distancebutmakeitfashionShantaram by Gregory David Roberts (Goodreads)Fragile Things: Short Fictions and Wonders, by Neil Gaiman (Goodreads)Joanna Hagan-Young - Spoken Word (Facebook)Music: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.comP.s. Reach out if you need to chat about sobriety in quarantine or whatever @francibambiIf you want recipes, poetry and extra-ness you’ll be better off @joannahagan 

have you been I'm good my brain has totally turned to mush good after three yeah well to be fair this is only day three of no work whatsoever yeah um so how was how's Susan Susan is good Susan is growing beautifully I'm so proud of her I can bake with her from Saturday and you've had it you've added rye flour to her now so it's a white and rye bread it's a white and rye blend so I use less of my precious blood for bread flour I can't speak today I haven't spoken to a human being yeah my husband and I've barely barely to him sorry I'm just gonna eat a few more we've run out of crisps so eventually I'm trying to

work out like how to do as little shopping as possible now I know we've got three of us I'm gonna have to do some kind of meal plan I think well this is think I know I can live off what I could probably do another week with what's in my house but I'm nearly out of alliums I've got no onions no leeks no spring onions I've got a head of garlic and that's it Jesus that's pretty dire yeah I don't know what I'm gonna cook tonight even I do have garlic no I'm like I said I reckon I could could get through another week but it would without stuff like onions it will start getting really depressing really quickly and I'm nearly

out of booze which is fine for some but not for me not on the weekend have you been reading I haven't I've genuinely I'm stuck I'm the thing is I'm still in that book I was telling you about that I was kind of stuck on before the new year because I have the pandemic one yeah yeah yeah I don't want to stop it stop reading it it's fine but it's such a good book and I want to know what happens in case it gives me guidance on what's gonna happen to us it's too late now but I did offer just to read you the next chapter so you were through on it and now I just need to go home and do it I'll go home and do it tonight you said

it just needs to be separated for weeks and weeks I miss you so much I know it's weird like I wouldn't normally like obviously you know what I mean this in the nicest way I wouldn't normally like start missing you after a week of not seeing you well no I mean we've gone weeks without seeing each other in the past you lived in Australia for a bit I did I did do that and that was quite far away for quite some time although I did miss you it's knowing that I can't see people yeah it's I can't have it and therefore I very much want it it's yeah it becomes very much how dare you how very dare you pandemic

so so so why are we here today Joanna well I think we're gonna make a podcast aren't we bonus podcast a bonus podcast bonus podcast yes um I'm not sure if we're like saying should we make a podcast should we make a podcast yeah let's wait Leo let's make a podcast okay this is all very unstructured I'm getting we are doing this podcast remotely yes shall I do it shall I do a hello and welcome to are you gonna like introduce this properly okay yeah yeah is that all right yeah I think that's within the government regulations I'm not entirely sugar I'll have to ask Boris hello and welcome to the true shall make he fret a podcast in which we are usually

reading and recapping every book from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series one of time in chronological order I'm Joanna Hagan young and I'm Francine Carroll I'm 100% that usually is accurate like of the percentage of episodes we've done how many have actually been in the the reading and recapping the actual discworld books well okay so we've done 16 episodes so far four of those begatomans and one was the bonus hog swatch episode yeah so yeah out of 16 episodes 11 no okay nine hang on 12 okay yeah no that's usually that's fine okay okay anyway this is our special bonus pandemic edition yeah because we're in isolation slash lockdown whatever you want to call it we need to figure out if we can record remotely yeah and remain indoors

remain indoors uh do not think about the event please don't think about the event just listen to the apocalypse playlist over and over again until you feel better or stop being able to think properly at all yeah that's what's happened to me yay very much we've been keeping ourselves entertained during the pandemic by well in my case actually just continuing to work um and watching The Simpsons with my dad I've also been watching The Simpsons because Disney Plus was out now and has all of The Simpsons um plus it was really fun today I watched the first ever tree house of horror episode oh which one was that what was in there it had a haunted house thing it introduced it had an alien thing with kang and kudos for the first time oh the cooking yeah yeah with the

raven yes and now I know because it's really weird watching them because um do you get this where you watch something and as each scene comes up you're remembering it but you still couldn't say what comes yes totally um so I used to watch that so much as a kid I'm like well this probably explains like why I've always loved the raven poems and I read it as a teenager and I probably just felt this huge familiarity with it because I fucking heard it again and again on The Simpsons yeah but yeah so pandemic activities it's been fun I uh I'm completely not working I technically I mean I'm furloughed so I have a job but like I don't have any work right now so I've just played PlayStation and and watched The Simpsons you are uh you do introduce yourself as Joanne

poet and playwright quite often so I mean I'm going to get after this week after this week of holiday you can be Joanne a full-time poet and playwright for a bit which will be super fun except I've got to try and think of something to write about that isn't the freaking pandemic do you have an interesting floaty dressing gown obviously good I mean it's like a it's a short satin kimono but it'll do for the sake of it yeah but I have like long flowing satin trousers that match it say okay I'm wearing really big mix yes now I have appropriate wafting around the house clothes to be a poet I've got to sort of waft airily about in a cloud of gin and perfume and chiffon I think I'm dramatically out of windows I'm not sure what I've been exactly scuttling I think

I've been scuttling around the house cleaning madly cool so what we thought we'd do today dear listeners yes let's interview each other because I heard my two of my favorite podcast hosts do that and it made me happy I think that was uh you're wrong about by the way have I made you listen to that yet no but that's someone from that you're gonna love it so fucking much oh my god Jo I know I say this about podcasts but you will love you're wrong about so much the enemy is always capitalism and the patriarchy okay fine I need to listen to that is that history that's got someone on it who's on Dubai Friday doesn't it no but Dubai Friday repeatedly recommend it which is why uh okay I knew there was a I know there's like a web of how I've got to draw mine out

at some point yeah I got into this through this through this through this through that through them I thought actually I might write out a list of because I listened to a lot of long conversational podcasts and I thought I might uh write out a proper list in description of each of them because it might help people who actually need company to stay sane yeah that would be a good idea replace human interaction for me a lot of the time which was great for me and might be you know enough enough for some people who are struggling see my issue isn't human interaction I I'm not that like I'm constantly talking to people on the internet yeah yeah exactly and I don't get a lot of human interaction in my day-to-day life anyway because I'm quite often

alone in the kitchen listening to podcasts my issue is just that I'm not allowed to leave as opposed to yeah as I was saying before it's a rudely interrupted myself um we are going to ask each other questions but because Joanna doesn't like interviewing people and honestly I probably skew towards accidentally asking you about the property market given my journalistic experience I know nothing about literally nothing what do you think this is going to do to the costa del sol fuck it yes it will yes correct me you're doing great and but anyway because that I used an awesome little tool that anyone can use on perchance.org where you can just give make yourself a random generator I was gonna do a whole proper one

with JavaScript and everything but then I found this and it is fucking easy as so that's what we're now doing and I wrote down a load of questions and Joanna wrote down a load of questions and now you have a tool with a button and you can press the button and then when it gives us a question we're going to ask each other and then I figured because I couldn't work out how to make it to exclude the ones we already had if it comes up twice then we just ask the person who hasn't answered it yet okay cool yeah yeah yeah you can tell we're really planned out today yeah well it's bonus content what the fuck do they want do they even want the bonus content well probably not but they're getting it same everyone else is doing it well people need things to occupy

themselves in this lonely lonely time I'm going to send you the best episode of you're wrong about and I haven't decided what it is yet but I need you to get into this podcast I know I say this occasionally but I mean it this time okay subscribe to like 20 I'm going to start making you listen to a podcast every time I I have to listen to a new one okay but it can't be a TV recap damn it and now Joanna write right into the serious business if you could replace your arms with weapons which weapons would you choose oh I know I'm sorry to go straight to the heart-hitting ones but yeah now it's a lot I think probably can I have like a different weapon on each arm yes okay so can I have a very sharp knife on one hand and tongs on the other

Joanna those aren't weapons those are your work tools when I'm at work I will argue that they are definitely not weapons and never used as such outside of work a sharp knife is a weapon okay fine what kind of knife I'm thinking like a good quality cleaver you can do pretty much anything a cleaver oh okay yeah yeah I mean you can find these shreds garlic you can chop parsley you can even serve portions of lasagna and you can probably you know you can do anything with a cleaver including and up to hacking someone else's arm weapons off okay cool um I'll allow that what what about the tongs how are you going to argue that for a weapon have you ever been nipped by a crab no have you it hurts yeah and a lobster

are you going to have like a crab claw so that's actually yeah tongs I my tongs are not the same as a crab claw no but you could do some damage there's pulling and twisting and bop it but yeah no can we left on just be bop it yes okay let me generate a question what was the last song you listened to oh um I think it was a beautiful day by the levelers because I've had that half in my head ever since you mentioned it in the um uh the episode of the the montages the many montages oh yeah you were saying that uh mort's makeover should be to level as beautiful day which I didn't realize quite how uh commie revolutionary it was I guess I'd only really tuned myself into the chorus before um yeah so all about gavara and the guy forks and

well that's nice for them yeah yeah I thought so right have you ever been in a fight not really elaborate oh I've gotten a little bit scrappy but it's only ever been in a full fight well I mean you know hockey rugby they were a bit scrappy too there was one girl who still got a scar from me from what that involved a very very very vicious slap and I kind of caught her with a nail and apparently the scar lasted she's surprised why did you slap her is this hockey no no this was just in the school bathrooms but it would run my you're jumping around a lot my dad had just died and she said she cared more about her dead hamster than I cared about that girl yeah no she does that yeah yeah no I'm really proud she's still got that scar

all right uh we've kind of done this already but you can recommend one podcast not ours to get a random person through this quarantine which one and why um honestly actually probably wouldn't be you're wrong about if I can only recommend one to get someone through a quarantine now see as I wrote this I should have actually thought about it but I didn't I stuck to it I said I wasn't gonna think about them and I didn't I think I think it's gonna be due by Friday because A it is interesting funny nice-ish people having like chats chatting it makes you feel like you're in a group of people which is nice and yeah be because it comes along with challenges um so you need the patreon you need the patreon so you can listen to the aftershows and get the

challenges and then do it and then listen to the listen to the thing I think so I would say that runner-up would be Roderick on the line which has one of the same host Merlin man but also has John Roderick and that is largely because it's been going on since 2011 and there is a lot of back catalogue and uh there's quite a lot of chat about mental health and stuff which is nice and they're all they're very open and yeah awesome those are my answers and I will I think I will write out that list of good podcasts and put in this I'll put a link in the show next awesome what do you sing when you're alone oh oh oh lots of disney and musicals oh yeah do you belt oh full belt I have a belt as playlist on my phone I mean obviously there's

some a manaparma on it because there's a manaparma on all of my playlists uh Reigns of Castamere from Game of Thrones specifically the version sung by Serge Tankian from System of the Down we have maybe this time and Cabaret from Cabaret the lightning early version obviously a cover is not the Burke and Tripp a little like fantastic from the new Mary Poppins film Amsterdam by David Bowie it's so fun I use it when I have a show coming up I listen to it a lot like a home alone or kitchen own uh because it helps me get used to um like pushing out sound from the diaphragm better it's all the same muscles and uh stuff that you're using to speak loud in theater as if you're singing so that helps me remind myself how to do it and breath control and

stuff yeah also it's just really fun to sing to Moana really loudly what opinion did you once hold but now embarrasses you oh oh no I was hoping you'd get that one uh okay oh I used to think feminism was stupid and would call myself an equalist oh I love you 14 15 all right yeah maybe into 16 I don't know um because I heard someone say that and it sounded small and yeah yeah no that's pretty embarrassing I still remember in an interesting you know how sometimes you still remember tiny little things from fucking years ago tiny little exchanges that really don't matter anymore and the other person definitely won't remember I remember one from online like a deviant heart forum exchange where I said something along those lines to someone clearly a bit older and smarter than me

and they went oh yeah no you've really changed my life with that opinion well done like the sarcasm dripping from a forum post in a way I didn't realize it could until then and I think possibly she was then nice enough to link me to something to read because it was from then that I started actually learning what feminism was and why it's still pretty fucking useful yeah I remember going from a similar attitude to hardcore feminist very very quickly and Twitter was definitely involved in that transition but I did kind of go I went too far the other way and I've had to I found equilibrium since I think we based on that oh this is a good one for you what's your I cannot be fucked to cook but I will cook meal oh I actually have a bunch

for these like it does depend on what's in the house and in the cupboard good because this is necessary this is partly just me asking for ideas for dinner to be honest pasta generally features heavy in all of these uh so and again for me it's not even so much can't be fucked to cook it's can't be asked to acquire ingredients and put thoughts in yeah yeah uh so my go to is my bad brain pasta chopped onion and garlic cooked out maybe throw in like some chili flakes or whatever whatever herbs I've got lying around that are looking on their last legs um tin of tomatoes tin of white beans splash of red wine if I have it um pasta in yeah pasta in and then if I have any day if I've got some creme fraiche or cream or maybe throw a splash of that in I'll throw a big

handful of cheese in I also do a version of that that has double the usual amount of onion and sausages in it works with veggie sausages too uh that one has to have the cream in and then bake it at the end with breadcrumbs that's if I'm like fancy yeah and then if I if I really really can't be fucked then either carbonara or cacio pepe which either way is basically just making a sauce for pasta out of eggs and cheese that's the one you gave me the recipe for and I've made isn't it yeah yeah just three times as much black pepper as you need yeah I love black pepper so much is it good for you tell me yes do you enjoy it yes then it's good for you I am I always feel slightly virtuous when I add chili to stuff I'm like I heard this was good for me yeah I'm not

going to examine that very much but as long as I feel it somewhat then the placebo effect works I think whereas I've put quite a lot of mental effort into separating moral values from food and if I enjoy it then it's automatically good for me because at the very least it's good for my mental health yeah no exactly I try and I've tried to change the kind of moral attachment to it so that the the morality is like a service to my body not because in any way oh I'm being good I'm being good yeah yeah I know it's oh my body will like this this will go towards my aim of being able to jump over that river by summer which is my current aim goals how big is the river Francine very narrow I can almost do it now I just okay I just got wet foot last time so I was like okay

no do you know what because you know how Adrian and the yoga videos always say set an intention it's like okay by summer I'm going to jump that fucking river oh my intention is to just like be slightly more cheerful yeah see that's always the kind of stuff I used to do and then I'd kind of lose grip of it when we meant to be doing the meditation on it whatever so I was like right now I'm going to pick something solid jump that fucking river no wet feet boom yeah no I'm saying about a meditation every time I try and meditate I just go to I just start kicking through whatever script I'm working on and start working out the the floors yeah oh this is actually on theme for the podcast what single disc world book the most excited for us to get to oh okay

that is a very good question because it's not necessarily my favourite but I think it is Morrison the amazing Morrison has educated rodents because I've only read that once and I remember it's fantastic and I know you have lots of interesting things to say about it and it's got like a whole thing it's like huge societal undertone messages and I think we will dig our teeth right into that and it was going to be great that one's so good I'm so excited for that one that one is like one of my top five disc world books yeah um I'm asking you something now yeah what was the first disc world book you've really truly loved well this is now a bit crap coming after your question because it is amazing Morrison has educated rodents cool well tell me

about it because it's good well it just I don't know what it is but it just went right into the right part of my brain all of the characters the sarcastic cat I loved it so so much and I've always like I quite like the Pied Piper story and I was how old do you think I'm trying to work it out because I remember reading it while I was in America so I think I was probably 11 possibly 12 but I didn't realise it was part of the disc world series and it wasn't it was years later where I properly started reading disc world and kind of went hang on the place names are the same that was a disc world book all along gasp and then went and reread it once I'd like read more of the disc world I then went back and reread this book I'd loved as a child and found all this extra

nuance in it uh what place do you have no interest in visiting again oh Sydney easy yeah I have no intention to go back Sydney it was I'm sorry anyone who lives there um brave enough to think we might have australian this is we do we've had a couple of ratings on australian itunes oh that's nice hi australia hi I hate Sydney um that is largely because of the company I kept while I was there to be fair I'm sure yeah you didn't have an easy time of it no um there were beautiful parts of the city really truly I remember very clearly walking around uh the docks and the botanical gardens and the harbour and it was all gorgeous and sparkly water and a lot of people were super racist and everything was expensive and I had a bad time so I'm not interesting going back I think

that would be quite traumatising for me plus didn't parakeets keep eating your herb boxes they did yes um I was in a tiny flat that didn't have aircon and it was 40 degrees all the time Celsius oh yeah you you were there in the summer weren't you check that out what's uh I was 104 it is 104 yeah it was hot and I didn't yeah I used to have a cold shower and go straight to the bed without drying off because that was the only way I could be cool enough for two minutes to go to sleep and I was trying to sleep during the day as well because I did night shifts and yeah fucking parakeets kept coming through the window which I had to keep open or I would die and yelling and then they knocked my basil off and I could see it growing really well on a rooftop far below

I'm sorry I like the little ibises ibises are like pigeons really they're just fucking everywhere going through the garbage seagulls very small in Australia yeah I might keep some of the video content from this and make clips for our dear listeners that seems fair oh and maybe not because you can see all of my chins in glorious abandon you look good that's why I can't make up on this is the first time in three days I've worn anything other than an oversized t-shirt and baggy jeans that's good something about putting jeans on that makes me feel like a more functioning human it's like I have passing trousers on now I'm being a person and I'm yeah for sure still just playing PlayStation yeah I've

got like three levels of trousers so I've got like pajama trousers whatever yeah I've got jeans or floaty semi trousers one of the two casual and then you've got like structured work trousers and that's a real people days but I don't own any structured work trousers because I haven't had to work in an office for eight years they look really good and like straight seat trousers so you like cigarette ones maybe I'm working on a pattern for some actually I want to learn how to make them because I've got some absolutely ridiculous curtain fabric that looks like an old medieval tapestry and I want to see if I can make a pair of like high-waisted cigarette trousers out of it I very much look forward to the results of that I just think not that maybe

a matching blazer no you can't go on I'm fine yeah okay who am I to cross your dreams of walking around as a tapestry most people can't pull it off me that's true that's true you are extra by default so my base state of being is oh I've won a floor length gold skirt again I really liked that Twitter thing you were a part of the other day by the way I've kind of wished I had been the dress up for distance but make it fashion distance to make a fashion yeah there you go yeah which uh Rachel sime who's a fashion writer for the New York Times is running the hashtag I keep talking to the speaker when I'm trying to address the listeners why do you think it that you think it lives in the speaking area yes the listeners live in the speaker um Rachel sime who's a fashion

writer for the New York Times started this hashtag on Twitter and it's just on Sunday put on a fancy outfit and tweet with the hashtag and I liked it so I put on a floor length gold sequined gown did my makeup had a glass of champagne have you ever won a competition have I ever won a competition oh I don't know I don't think I have not a writing competition right no I mean I've had like my work chosen to be staged which is yeah kind of like quitting a competition yeah that's like a grown-up working competition is it no but I've never really done anything competitive like I didn't do competitions at school because I wasn't in like any team sports or anything did you not do like essay competitions or whatever not really and I didn't do a lot of extracurricular

I remember being in a country dancing competition once but I don't think we won what oh I used to do when I was in primary school like we used to do country dancing what's country dancing so it was kind of like um like country and western swing dancing type stuff but it's sort of an old english folk dancing you do stuff like strip the willow and the arches and you dance down the middle and oh shit you go like swing each other around english country dancing hold on I'm looking at the video here it was primary school it was a different time then I know but goodness me um oh can't say what you're gonna do so yeah so I've entered competitions but not many and I don't remember ever winning one Francine what unimportant

issue do you care deeply about which I'm assuming we can rephrase this what hill will you die on everybody should walk faster than they do I don't know why the default speed of walking is quite so slow I'm not particularly athletic I'm not hugely above average height wise and yet I would quite easily I think conservatively I can say I walk faster than 90 percent of people I assume there was going to be something about apostrophe usage in there do you know it would have been something grammatical some time ago but I've become less aggressive about grammar outside of my working life I was going to say as a copy editor you kind of have to be fairly aggressive about grammar I believe very strongly that correct grammar has its place in published writing

and that we should keep to that because it is important that we have a consistent language so that as many people as possible can learn to read it and communicate with each other effectively however I'm not going to be that twit on Twitter who seems like they've won an argument or even has contributed to an argument by correcting the other person's grammar because frankly they have not and I used to be that person yeah I used to be that person and then I was I don't want to get stupidly into cancel culture and call out but I was called out for it you were slapped down in that feminist group we were in I was like but to be fair it wasn't an aggressive thing people very politely said hey

don't do that because of this reason and I went I hadn't thought of it like that and I haven't done it since which yeah that was one of them nicer okay what do you like being complimented on yeah you can have two answers here one one about something physical one about something else okay so physical I really like it when people notice my dress sense because like okay I spent a lot of time in jeans and t-shirts when I'm just going to and from work but whenever I'm not I put quite a lot of thought into what I'm wearing you do how I'm wearing incredibly put together that's because and I make stuff and like I will pair a t-shirt with a floor length gold ball gown and trainers uh so yeah so physically good because you've thought about it yes and I've

worked very hard to cultivate a reputation for being overdressed at all times because then I don't have anxiety about what to wear for things if I'm like not sure how formal it is it's like well it's fine because everyone knows I'm overdressed so if I'm not sure how I formal I need to look I'll err on the side of massively overdressed and everyone will be just be like oh it's Joe it's fine that's very good I like that doesn't work quite as well in places where people don't know me but we're getting there I think about something non-aesthetic oh non-aesthetic definitely my writing yeah I'd like any like what's a compliment you like getting about your writing though because like you're a good writer it's nice but it's not like sometimes you get those

compliments you're like thank you thank you for noticing when someone gets like the real undertone of a piece I've written and picks up on so like one of the pieces I'm proudest of which was staged last year was this piece called The Crone and I love that piece so much like I'm really attached to it it's my baby and it helps that like it had an amazing actor for it but there was a difference between people coming up and saying that was really good writing and people coming up and saying I really like how you interrogated a woman's place in the world and how much she loses social currency as she ages yes and the second one was the ah you get it yes and that feels like it that makes it feel like it's worth writing stuff because I'm put a thought into someone's head

and they might not have interrogated that themselves before good yes I like that and I managed to do that without sounding like too much of a pretentious wanker you actually did I'm not even gonna disagree with you today oh thank you uh what subject do you wish you knew more about so many fucking everything um one's very very niche and fleeting I just thought today I really want to know about like the the design behind like sirens and tornado warnings and stuff like that because you know how uh tsunami and tornado sirens are really fucking haunting and they're just off yeah and they're like really discordant yeah yeah discordant that's the word and just like they make perfect lovecraftian background noises I'm like oh how do people work out how

to do that and like why did what what made the different countries settle on different sirens for their quarantines and stuff so that was what I was thinking about while walking today what can turn your day completely around uh for the good and for the bad uh okay uh for the bad it can literally be the tiniest fucking thing yeah um because I am very very sensitive and a delicate sensitive person to be fair most of the time I'm I I do put out an exterior of not being a tall sensitive but tiny things are in it I just need to drop something literally it yeah like into that do you think that would turn around a genuinely good day or would that be uh I was kind of on the edge anyway yeah I mean that's more so like if I'm hormonal I'll cry at a drop

speed for two hours very much so if I'm having like a genuinely good day I don't know so many little things can ruin it um again sensitive someone's saying something mean on the internet will haunt me for hours saying something slightly wrong in a conversation that doesn't get like a laugh I expect haunting stays in my brain will not leave my brain and it will ruin every other uh reaction for the day huh that sounds enough of my brain how about for the good then you're having a bad day what turns it to be a good one uh again it there's generally little things really really good food there is very little in my life that the right meal and it has to be the right thing and I won't know what the right thing until I I have accessed it yes uh which

will lead like an hour of trying to decide what takeaway to order because if the takeaway then like isn't exactly right my day was like tiny things tiny tiny things um but yeah generally food food improves all things what book do you think made the biggest impression on teenage you probably shantaram did I ever get you to read shantaram god no but I remember you like everyone I know talking about shantaram you had read it Callum had read it Ali had read it everyone tried to get me to read it which put me off reading it yeah that's fair so shantaram is like this book about it's half autobiographical like it follows his vague life story but he adds in the detail like the characters and that um about an Australian

ex-convict or possibly continued convict he might have just escaped from prison yeah that's right who goes to India and it's about his living in India and becoming a doctor in the slums and eventually becoming like part of a mafia in Mumbai then Bombay and it is incredibly purple prose and beautiful long descriptive passages about the woman he likes and the and it's all very emotional and the characters are very well fleshed out and it is a very very beautiful book yeah I like a bit of ridiculous purple prose it's it's always lived on my to read list yeah I've just never got around to acquiring a copy and reading it I got a copy at the moment I often don't have a copy of one of my favorite books in the world

because I am thread of fucking lending them out um yeah classics that I never have a copy of a great Gatsby and Doreen Gray David Roberts so would I put that under D or under D you put that under D you're a serial killer Francine well I think who out who alphabetizes books by first name Gregory David Roberts it's his middle name who alphabetizes by middle name I can't believe he didn't read it when I was making everyone read it yeah the thing is there were I think at the point where you read it there were five different people who had read it who were recommending it to me now I read it way before I met you um this is Craig's older brother gave it right I remember a period where like you were recommending it Callum Ali possibly Alex Kate

did I make Alex read it yeah it's quite possible yeah between you and Ali Alex read it because he'd read passages out to it occasionally in the kitchen and if too many people recommend something to me it puts me off and I won't do it I'm very stubborn they'd lied to me and betrayed me leaving jagged edges where all my trust had been and I didn't like or respect or admire them anymore but still I loved them I had no choice I understood that perfectly standing in the white wilderness of snow you can't kill love you can't even kill it with hate you can kill in love and loving and even loveliness you can kill them all or numb them into dense sled and regret but you can't kill love itself love is the passionate search for a truth other than your own and once you feel it

honestly and completely love is forever every act of love every moment of the heart reaching out is part of the universal good it's part of god or what we call god and it can never die yeah okay so a bit wanky yeah there's one of the reasons I can't ever edit fiction because I would cut that to about 10 words but I enjoyed it very very much and it doesn't feel wanky in the story well that's like a really love portrait Dorian Gray because like it's beautiful beautiful writing that works in the story it is very oscar wild in parts I've just spotted another very quick quote in there which is sounds very oscar wild which is uh you know the difference between news and gossip don't you news tells you what people did gossip tells you how much they enjoyed it

that is so oscar wild yeah what book made the biggest impression on tina you oh that's really difficult because like on the one sense we were talking a couple of weeks ago about those georgia nicosan books and I think they had the biggest impression on my sense of humor yeah but I think probably uh fragile things which is one of the Neil Gaiman short story collections because I was like so I was aware the book american gods existed because a friend of that my first memory of being aware of Neil Gaiman's existence was a friend of mine in philosophy class reading american gods and asking if I could borrow it when she was done um and then I was eventually yes but I ended up reading fragile things the short story collection first

because I just I happened to pick up a copy of it and waterstones and I was like oh I'll see if I like this guy's short stories before I commit to like because american gods was a very big book and it was a it's one of the first books where I remember very slowly becoming aware of how big a deal the author was because obviously you're talking this is in the late 2000s and Neil Gaiman has been a very big name for much longer than that and it felt like joining a club and getting excited when I realized other people already knew who he was yeah because this is also around the time I was starting to get back into Terry Pratchett and obviously there was that whole link there so it was like oh this author seems pretty cool and then finding out that like a lot

of people I knew really loved him and I loved the book itself like it's such a all of the stories and poems in it are beautiful in their own ways and it's incredible writing uh right what is the best and worst thing about getting older? Worst thing is of course just the the tiny little constant gradual reminders that this ridiculous fragile meat body is decaying um that's cheery and I need to find another home for my consciousness in only a few decades time the good thing about getting older is I'm not sure how to word it because it is a combination of you feel more secure in yourself and people fuck with you less and I think it goes to a very entwined um like when you're a young woman

a very young woman between what I'm gonna say 15 and 24 probably prime is when a lot of people just really trying to fuck with you yeah and people see how much they can get away with and take advantage and yeah yeah and now I'm getting close to 30 people let's be honest men do not do not seem to automatically assume there is some way they can pull one over on me oh just the asshole without retribution but yeah I mean but partly that and just yeah just generally all that shit that comes with being that young has gone which is nice or is in the process of going and people take me a bit more seriously work automatically and yeah no I like it I'd like I like being this age I would not apart from the physical health aspects of it and some of

the aesthetics that's not trying to pretend I'm above this um yeah I would not choose to go back to being say 19 or 20 I think on the whole getting older is probably better if you get rid of a huge huge downside which is the reality getting older being mortal yeah well that's fine look we're still in our 20s you don't really need to face that until we're like 40 and technology will move on by then by the time we're 40 we're enough to face it till we're 60 and yeah that will hopefully be the case yeah and then cybernetic enhancements what single discworld book are you most excited for us to get to you so you've already said amazing Morris there's a bunch but I think and we've really kind of talked about this but I'm really really excited for

soul music oh yeah partly because it is one of my favorites and it's one of when I've as a like said late teens when I started properly getting into discworld it that was one of the first ones I picked up and I picked it up because I read the back cover and I was like boo blues brothers references and it's one of my favorite films yeah um so I deeply deeply love it I love all the little references I like the ones where he skewers bits of pop culture and I like uh the character that is introduced in it who turns up in a few discworld books um but also partly because I know it's really not one of your favorites and I know you don't know the references and you've never watched the blues brothers I'm so excited the same way like I found a new appreciation for

rincewind when I did color of magic and like fantastic with you who likes rincewind I know I'm really I'm worried about disappointing you here because it's not really just that I don't get the references it's that I don't really care to get I'm not into music I know there have been well no I'm definitely not a massive music nerd movies yeah I'm not a massive music nerd I just really really like the blues brothers but it's it's I'm not saying that I'm excited because I think I'm going to convince you to like it but I think it's going to be more fun to talk about it with someone who is less of a fan of it yeah at least it won't evolve into when we get to both of our favorite books it'll just be us going oh this is good if you had to pick an occupation

totally unconnected what you do now what would it be oh so can't we connect it to any of your many jobs all five of them all five none of which I have right now uh this is really difficult because everything I'm thinking somehow does link back to them um oh no I don't want to work in fashion like designing nice which is technically not one of my jobs it's only one of my hobbies yes no that's good yeah well then because I like like high fashion or like fashion oh I'd want to work in like proper high fashion kitchen stuff and designing concept false it yeah or like yeah yeah so like someone walks down the catwalk with like balloons on them instead of clothes yeah very jump or go to you like if I had to pick a design house that I'd want to work for as well

okay cool until I launch my own brand yeah yeah what do you like being complimented on one about looks one about something else ah two parter a two parter um I like people telling me I have a nice smile uh this kid because a lot of people have but a lot of people have made fun of me for you do have a lot of things smiling reasons uh um so I like that one and that's probably going to be writing again I like it when I get a compliment on a funny piece I've written because that's I enjoy writing that and it's not something I do often or I think particularly well on average but when I do get it right I like it when people tell me it's funny you have got a very good very dry sense of humor but yeah I'm guessing you don't get to be funny in your work writing that often

yeah and it takes like practice to write comedy like anything else and say I don't put time for it so I should but yeah yeah that's fine yeah I'm very proud of us both for getting through that question without saying tits yeah which subject do you wish you knew more about and do two answers one which is tangentially related to one of my jobs is I wish I understood chemistry more deeply especially the chemistry behind baking cool yeah because I know because I know some of the basics of it but I'd really like to have a much more in-depth understanding of it and then completely and totally unrelated to my job I wish I knew more about coding especially game design you'd be good at that probably it's very embarrassing yeah but I know how much free

time I have I know I don't have time to learn to code it okay for two months yes but I'm not going to like start a hobby when I have five I can't start another hobby for unseen I think we should do one more each because I need to do some work this afternoon oh yeah I didn't realize how long we've been recording we don't have time as today um if I could guarantee you a lifespan of at least another 200 years how would your plans change oh um well I would immediately borrow the money or get a grant or whatever needed to go to university um I'm not sure what subject I would take exactly but I would go and get some fucking qualifications finally oh that would be cool I would insist on moving to another country quite soon um when there's no travel bans and pandemic

I feel like I'd play it more safe than I would do if I had more life because I like I know we are we being me and my husband are happy here and safe and all of that but I would take more of a risk yeah so lots and lots of ways but my main one would be starting formal education yeah nice which I might get around to anyway we'll see I yeah I'm pretty sure that's not in my future yeah I mean it's I'd say 50 50 for me honestly whether I'll ever get around to it but yeah I feel like quite a few people you've got degrees in like 30s and 40s so yeah I mean if I ever got into a thing where I was like way more financially stable yeah and could take the time off to do it properly that's it isn't it that's it it's the time yeah yes it's a way from who's the best teacher

you ever had oh oh um it's kind of hard to answer so I will say probably just for straight up incredible amounts of compassion uh I was like this is a bit depressing but I was in middle school when my father passed away yes and I have a sister who's six years older so she'd been through the school before me yeah so the teachers like like and it's a catholic school and it's kind of a small community and so they you know they knew my family and obviously the teachers were very caring and looked after us but they were so caring to the point where for some stupid reason on the day the funeral I insisted I was still going to do my science SAT exam yeah because I was a very stubborn child and wanted some normalcy and the head yeah now I'm so not stubborn at all no and the head

teacher the year head of year eight who had been my sister's form tutor and would end up being mine and my teacher all together like took me to get changed and walked me down to the church and the head teacher and the head of year eight who was also the English teacher uh were both from Newcastle similar areas where my dad's from so they both were Newcastle united ties and they stayed for the whole funeral so I think just for straight up compassion they were probably some of the best teachers actual best teacher who made me care about the subject I was doing would probably be that English lit teacher I was talking about because I was in a yeah very very bad state of bad mental health that would lead to me dropping out of school but for a while I did still manage

to kind of give a fuck about English lit I noticed you haven't yet shaved your head by the way do I know I'm so close to it I honorable mention to the head of sick form at the school I did a levels out who bet me 20 quid I wouldn't shave my head and pay it up yeah cool awesome um one of the podcasts I mentioned actually Roderick on the line uh mentioned that some people who are newly sober might really be struggling right now um because there's fuck all to do apart from sit around and think about it and a lot of people will be like well no one's gonna be fucking judging me are they and something's different therefore it's a good excuse and that's how addictive brain works and yeah I've been there guys so if anybody is in that

situation and would like to chat because I've got a few years under my belt now and I'm feeling pretty steady about the whole thing still then please feel free to reach out at uh Twitter's probably easiest on at francy bambi which is linked in the show notes and yeah I'm happy to chat to anyone about that stuff so I'll even be nice to you like like genuine this isn't just for me to be like a dick oh if you've been nice whereas if you reach out to me I'll probably be a dick but I'll try and pass your info into francy she'll have good raspy ideas so yeah no as I said at the end of our last episode if you are struggling with just having ridiculous store-covered ingredients and not knowing what to do with them or you need some stuff read

out for the kids you're desperately trying to homeschool now uh just yeah shout me out Joanna Hagen on Twitter or uh email the podcast and we'll look after you do you have anything you'd like to end on Joe um I mean I can do like a I can do an outro this is a podcast episode oh I guess it kind of is yeah yeah do an outro right thank you for listening to the two show make you fret uh Phillips we've definitely finished talking about more now but we will be back in your ears next week with sorcery yes starting at page one just so you know yeah page one page do you have you decided why we're stopping I haven't started reading it yet okay cool taking the week off front scene oh yes um but yeah follow us on instagram at the

true show make you fret on twitter at make you fret podge find us on facebook at the true show make you fret you can email us the true show make you fret pod at gmail.com as we said come contact your hosts if you need anything in this ridiculous time in this trying time it is quite frankly ridiculous and until next week dear listeners don't let us detain you see that seems kind of rude at the end of bonus content but like whatever I couldn't think of anything else I guess it's always rude I guess that's the point