The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - Bonus: Supplementary Books (A Podcast In Which We...)

Episode Date: November 11, 2024

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan and Francine Carrel, read and recap every book from Sir Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series in chronological order. This w...eek, a bonus episode! We’re looking at World of Poo, Dodger’s Guide to London and Mrs Bradshaw’s Handbook.  Lavatories! Naughty Girls! Shirtless Vimes!Find us on the internet:Twitter: @MakeYeFretPodInstagram: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretFacebook: @TheTruthShallMakeYeFretEmail: thetruthshallmakeyefretpod@gmail.comPatreon: www.patreon.com/thetruthshallmakeyefretDiscord: https://discord.gg/29wMyuDHGP Want to follow your hosts and their internet doings? Follow Joanna on twitter @joannahagan and follow Francine @francibambi Things we blathered on about:Beauty, what it is and how to retain it - Internet Archive Music: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.com

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 Sorry, Americans. We feel fucking terrible for you. And you know, a little bit scared for everyone else in the world, but mainly, I hope you're doing all right, guys. I want to do a very honest, heartfelt, you know, everyone ever is always welcome here in our podcast space and family, but it's just not I'm not an honest, heartfelt person. I posted some hashtag hope core memes to our podcast discord, which is my online equivalent of when I kind of come up to you and you're upset and pat you awkwardly on that. We can't really do honest and earnest and, you know, our hearts going out to people. But this is, you know, always going to remain a safe space for people and we love all our listeners and all that shit. That was horrible. Let's not do that again. Well, I think I could probably make something out of that half an hour of us talking nonsense. All right, cool. Do you want to make a podcast then?
Starting point is 00:00:51 Yeah, let's make a podcast. Hello and welcome to The Truth Shall Make You Fret, a podcast in which we are usually reading and recapping every book from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series, one as time in chronological order. I'm Joanne Hagan. And I'm Francine Carroll. And today we're talking about some of the supplementary books that came out alongside the last three books we covered. We are talking about The World of Pooh, Dodgers Going to London and Mrs. Bradshaw's Handbook.
Starting point is 00:01:17 The big three. The big three, as they are commonly known by no one at all. Mm-hmm. Note on spoilers before we crack on. We're a spoiler-like podcast. Spoilers up through raising steam, but we will avoid any and all mention of the final Disco World and of all the Shepherds' Crown until we get there, so you, dear listeners, can come on the journey with us. Either by train, overland, collecting various poos as we go,
Starting point is 00:01:42 or through the dirty streets of old London. However you want to approach it. Yes, we're going to go through these in order. We've had three books in a row on the podcast that will have little supplementary things come out with them. So we're going to start with World of Poo. So this book was introduced, or the concept of this book was introduced in snUF. This is of course the wonderful book by Miss Felicity Beadle that brings young Sam great joy. It was published in June 2012. So SNUF came out in October 2011. The common thing with all of these books is that they seem to be tied in with paperback releases for the main books, which makes a lot of sense. As with all of today's books, this was co-produced by Bernard and Isabel Pearson of Discworld Emporium. And this
Starting point is 00:02:31 was illustrated by Peter Dennis, who does lots of interesting sort of historical stuff and game stuff. He also illustrated the Aintmoreport board game. He's also the illustrator for Mrs. Bradshaw's handbook, which we'll be talking about later in the episode. Did I name all three books we're doing actually? Maybe. Today, we will be talking about World of Pooh, Dodger's Guide to London and Mrs Bradshaw's handbook to traveling upon the Ankhmore, Palkins, Stow Plains Hygenic Railway. I think three, if they're called.
Starting point is 00:03:07 Don't edit any of that. Anyway, please, Dennis. He also illustrated. And he also did lots of the wonderful full color illustrations in the complete Discworld Atlas. Oh, cute. Ah, nice. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:03:23 Title wise for World of Pooh, I don't know if this is meant to be a reference or not, but world of poo with an H was how the combined volume of the two sets of Winnie the Pooh stories were published. The combined volume of Winnie the Pooh and the House at Pooh Corner, the A.A. Milne stories were published as World of Pooh. So I'm choosing to believe it's an intentional reference because you know, I love me a little bit of A.A. Milne and I'll squeeze it in wherever possible. Absolutely. I couldn't shoehorn in an actual A.A. Milne poem, although I did try. No, you couldn't find any that were about feces, oddly enough. No, strangely did not write a lot about feces. Disappointing that man. So broad thoughts, how do you feel about World of Pooh?
Starting point is 00:04:14 It's quite cute, wasn't it? I liked it. I thought it was a delight. Yeah, I mean, is it one of those ones that people actually read to their children? Is this like a... Is it one of those ones that people actually read to their children? I feel like of all of the like supplemental like the well I say all of the there's two basically is this and Where's My Cow? This is I'd say the most readable to children. Where's My Cow is very much for fans of the book and has all the sort of weird meta stuff in it but this is like an actual story I would enjoy I would give this as a gift to a certain flavor of kid. Yeah, I think so. It's um, like it does it works in its own right.
Starting point is 00:04:50 Yeah, I agree. I think it's there are various things that I think make it a particularly nice one. Just I think this was probably mentioned in snuff. Now I think about it because I'm pretty sure I've seen Pratchett mention it, but that not a lot of books have things like washing your hands in them in the story. And there's a lot of hand washing in here. And of course, I've noticed every time he uses the lavatory. But yeah, obviously. I thought it was going to be more of the factual stuff and less of the story. I didn't really think of think about how it was going to be arranged. But the fact that it is a story with the nice factual bits put in is it's really
Starting point is 00:05:25 nicely done. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Also some odd ones, like having the disc wells flora and fauna alongside the like the actual stuff that would be educational for the round world as well. Yeah. It's nicely balanced. And I can go on a whole rant about how terrible children's books are today, but there's not a lot of like nice books like this that take something rude, but also tell a
Starting point is 00:05:50 nice little story and do it in an educational way. And this is something I've seen lots of people ranting about recently. I was about to say you're just going to pick someone else's anthology here. No, there's been a lot of like talk,, especially on Twitter recently, because an article came out talked about how children's reading rates are down and it's like, well, maybe if books weren't all just cash-ins by celebrities with things like The Fart That Saved Christmas. Yeah, I do feel like the fact that phones exist has got to be a big part of it there, right? I do think that's a thing too. But yeah, they do look pretty shocking to be honest.
Starting point is 00:06:32 Well, the, the, the celebrity cash in children's books thing is a particular like bug bear because they get lots and lots of money and attention that children's authors who are writing it for not just a oh I guess I'll do a kids book now because that's what you do. Don't get that same level of attention, marketing, publicity, any of that. Anyway, World of Poo though, I like World of Poo. Yeah, starting with the list of also by Miss Felicity Beadle, do you have any on there? Obviously I would like to read The Little Duckling, who thought he was an elephant. I'm also intrigued by Gaston's enormous problem. I mean, I'm worried about Gaston. I'm flicking through the physical
Starting point is 00:07:19 book, which I often avoid on the podcast. I'm going to be doing that with Mrs. Bradshaw's book. Don't worry. Oh, yeah. The War with the Snot Goblins, I'm interested by. And I want to know more about Geoffrey's magic pillowcase. Yeah. The War with the Snot Goblins actually could be quite a deep cultural story on this world, of course, because it the goblins. So some starter questions, how much did you want this book to exist after reading Snuff? Low to medium.
Starting point is 00:07:56 You weren't desperate for a children's book about faeces? Not hugely, no. I'm one of the people who complained about it in the intro. I don't particularly have any wish to talk about it. Fair, I respect that. How about you? I mean, I can't say I read Snuffin was like, oh yeah, I really want World of Pee now. I need that in my life. But Pratchett writes children's stories so well, like it's literally where he got his start. So it was unlikely this wouldn't be a delight. It just wasn't one I was desperately clamouring for. That's true. But if that's your answer for all three, that's because Pratchett's a good author.
Starting point is 00:08:28 Oh, yeah, I just wanted more books from Pratchett. That's my answer for this one, not for all three. I can see you quickly editing your notes. I was scrolling. I don't love reading type train travel books. Yeah, but I do quite like reading trained travel books. Yeah, handbooks about Victoria in London. We do read those in our spare time. Oh dear. But yes, no, it was it was wonderfully done. I think it was very charming children's book. And it's not it's not a practical children's book in the way that obviously the American Morris or
Starting point is 00:09:04 whatever is, I guess it's this one's angled at slightly younger children. It's almost a pastiche on the genteel genre of old fashioned children's stories, but at the same time it does stand alone, which is quite a Pratchett thing, I suppose. Yeah, it's got the not Victorian-ness to it, but that kind of faux Victorian phase of children's stories that came a bit later. But I like it. Yeah, it's cute. He's a charming child to read about. I'm not sure I'd want him in my actual life. I wouldn't want him in my house, certainly. But it's a cute story. Harry King's here.
Starting point is 00:09:40 I'm always happy when Harry King's here. And there's a puppy. There is a puppy and that's nice. Widdler, little Widdler. There was also, I was thinking about this like as a children's story structure, this idea of the story starting with the child being sent to a new and different place, to stay with a relative in a strange town. So like Narnia has it with being sent to uncles, you have this boarding school stories a lot and it's like a really classic children's book, children's story thing because it's like a... The children's book, children's story thing, because it's like a... The famous five are getting shoved off somewhere new every week.
Starting point is 00:10:08 Yeah. It's a good way to like kickstart some kind of curiosity with the child. Cause it's like, Oh, I might as well explore. While we're here. Yeah. And then while I'm here, I'll start a poo museum. And hoomst among us. Or, you know, become ruler of a fantasy land. And then have to go back and live your childhood. Yeah, and then get judged for growing up even though you already did it once.
Starting point is 00:10:35 It's fine. We're not still thinking about it. Don't worry, guys. I am. While I'm at it, actually. So the thing is with Susan... I don't think the House Queen did anything right now. Okay, so Turkish Delight. I'm trying to think of a hot take I could still have on Narnia. We're not starting the Turkish Delight conversation again.
Starting point is 00:10:56 We do not need the Turkish Delight discourse. No, that's a cold take now for me. That's a cold take. I need to think of something new and controversial. The Thorne had it coming. Right. Right. Right. But got to draw a line somewhere, Francie. All right. But he was also like a turd coat.
Starting point is 00:11:12 Yeah, actually, no, that's a fair point. The thorn had it coming. Yeah. Anyway, sorry. Turnscarf. I've got to actually, yes, thank you. Turnscarf. I've got to actually reread the books before I start having hot takes, I think, because I can't really remember if Tumnus ruined. Yeah. My big Narnia hot take is always that I'm sad that Magician's Nephew never gets adapted and I get why it doesn't because it's kind of a prequel and it was written after the rest of the books and blah blah but I want an adaptation of The Magician's Nephew. Absolutely.
Starting point is 00:11:35 For me it is on a par with The Dawn Treader. Yeah. Go to The Dawn Treader. Those are the two best ones for me. Sorry, we're meant to be in Discworld. Yeah, not in Narnia. My fault. Hello and welcome to the Dutchan Make Your Bread podcast in which we're reading and recapping every one of CS Lewis's Narnia books one at a time in Cromwellge Claude. The big seven. No, world of poo. So yeah, little details we liked. What did you like? Oh, you know, all sorts. No, I like, all right, one little detail I liked is that apparently paperwork is the word for loo roll if you're in the poo business.
Starting point is 00:12:11 Excellent. Love that. And dwarves use chainmail occasionally. That was a good one. I like all the little like, this is a real book details as I did with Where's My Cow? So the the like the little autograph for Sam at the beginning. Yeah. And as we mentioned, like the also by Miss Felicity Beadle list, and the fact that she dedicates it to Harry King. Yes, he's in the book. Isn't that nice? Yeah. He must he must have been do you think he was he was thrilled? I hope he was. Yeah, well, there was something I was thinking about here is this kind of this book shows a soft
Starting point is 00:12:48 side to Harry King. And he sort of in the book, but he also exists in the world. So he's been fictionalised by this lovely young lady who I'm assuming, met him to do some research. Yeah. So a it's quite cool to actually look around the world of Harry King, because we don't spend much time in his empire, physically. But I think there's like a burgeoning bit of raising steam stuff here, of seeing this like soft side to Harry King. Yeah, oh yeah, definitely. And I mean, I think SNUF kind of set the groundwork for it, didn't they? Yeah. Yeah, okay. I'm sorry, I just grabbed the book of superstitions from behind me because I thought fuck, I meant to look up lucky
Starting point is 00:13:27 bird poo. Oh, yeah. Before we got to this bit. And then you may have seen my face go slightly horrified because I can't find bird poo. But the best one is always bird comma dead. So, you know, nevermind. When we see a dead bird lying on the road, we spit on it. So we don't get it for our supper. Right. Girl 13 1957 Dumfries. Yeah, I do have more books on superstitions. But I think at this point, I'm just asking coming from Horace. Yeah, did you did you go out with that same superstition or being told that superstition? It does seem like a consolation, doesn't it, Modena? Yeah, I remember the first time I got told that superstition and it was when
Starting point is 00:14:09 I burrowed a chat on my head. But I didn't grow up with it. I remember very specifically that happened just as I was on my way to work at a pub I used to work in. And it was the landlady of that pub who was telling me it was good luck. And I was in a foul mood already because I worked at that pub. That landlady. And I really wanted to hit her at that point. I had to settle for going and rinsing my hair off in the sinks because she wouldn't let me go and rinse off in the... Did you have a lucky day? No, no, because I worked at that pub. Well, yeah, but sometimes there were good days there.
Starting point is 00:14:42 There were. That wasn't one of them. No, okay. I don't think it is a lucky thing. I do think it's consolation thing and I don't think it works. No, no. I mean, yeah, there's a conversation to be had about how many of good luck charms work, but this one definitely doesn't. We're putting this in the... Putting this in the thumbs down from the true show make you fret. Bird poo in here. No, this is the thumbs down from the true show make you fret being in here. One time I remember being chatted by a bird, I was like 13 or 14. It was at school. And I was in that very specific
Starting point is 00:15:13 time period where existing was mortifying. Yeah, like being noticed. Yeah, being perceived, being seen any comment about myself, whether it was meant nicely or not, would not have been well received. And I realized it happened. And luckily, luckily, I had a hairbrush and I went to the sink and I managed to brush it out and it was all wet. And someone was like, oh, wet hair. And I was like, that was bad enough. Just noticing I had wet hair. Imagine. No. Anyway, yeah, this is my trauma session. Therapy with Joanna. Hello, and welcome to the Tree Show Make You Read, a podcast in which Francine do this instead of getting therapy because it's cheaper. A podcast in which we go through every one of our traumas one at a time in chronological order.
Starting point is 00:16:00 I'm Joanna Hagan and barely keeping it together. I'm Francine Carroll and I fell apart a long time ago. Incredible. Going back to little details we liked for this book, I think a very important detail is, well, the visit to the Dragon Sanctuary in general, specifically actually getting to interact with the interchangeable Emma's idolise. I know. Oh, in actual Emma, it was an honor. It was an honor. A privilege. And having a baby dragon shitting Emma into your hand does sound weirdly adorable. It does. Also, there was a picture of the dog in his little helmet.
Starting point is 00:16:35 Yes. And that was important to me. Yeah, no, 10 out of 10. Dog in a little helmet. Honestly, seeing the little illustration, I got a Kindle version of this one. I bought the physical version of Mrs. Bradshaw's handbook, but I got Kindle of the other two. And seeing the little illustrations the dog made me wish I got the physical one of this because very, very cute. Pictures. Yeah, it is very cute little dog. Not quite enough to go out and buy one now. But you know, it's done now. I like gargoyle world building. Yeah, learning more not just wild, like, you know, species building.
Starting point is 00:17:06 Yeah, more more details about how gargoyles exist and function and how they've evolved. The anatomy of like filtering minerals through their ears. Yes. And why they can talk now when they couldn't. And the way that yeah, they no longer sound like a I-o-r-k-ick. Yeah, I thought that was all really nice. And there's one of them that likes toffee and cake and that's cute. And he's got a decoy pigeon on his head.
Starting point is 00:17:28 Yes. And you know, let's not think about that. But it's mildly entertaining though. And they poo gravel. And they poo, well, I'm not surprised. But I am delighted. It's got to be one of the few troll species actually that consumes organic matter like that. delighted. It's gonna be one of the few troll species actually that consumes organic matter like that. Yeah because mostly they do just eat nourishing minerals. Yeah it's been mentioned a few times that you know trolls elite humans just out for the sake of it in the old days but they didn't really get any
Starting point is 00:17:57 nourishment out of it. Yeah. But you know I suspect in the same way the seagulls have evolved, we fucking everything. Yeah, very much so actually. Gargoyles are kind of the seagulls of the... No, I don't know where I'm going with that. Let's leave that one there. The seagulls of the gutter. Yes, perfect. Those are kind of the seagulls of the gutter though, aren't they? Should we leave this comparison and move swiftly on? Yes.
Starting point is 00:18:25 Did you have any other little bits you liked in the world of poo? Oh, obviously I loved all of the menagerie animals. Oh yeah. We've got the hermit elephant from Hwanderland. The smallest is the Chlamydos swimming trough. We've got acrobatic meerkats counting camels, a ring-mane lion, a reciprocating ocelot, be very careful there, and dancing bears to name but a few. I love that the acrobatic meerkats do a little show and that the zookeepers are so unimpressed by it. Sometimes they miss a performance.
Starting point is 00:18:56 Don't applaud your line, encourage them. I also like Geoffrey's grandma, grandma offering some advice on mating the pandas. Oh, yeah. I'm not sure what the gist is, but I am a married woman. Yeah, stop being weird about it, guys. Just the grandma in general is a character that's lightful. She's encouraging. Yeah, because you sort of you start the book thinking that of course, she'll be the horrible
Starting point is 00:19:23 stern grandma because that is the shape of these books. And then she's lovely and has the rubber lined pockets made in the jacket for him. Yeah. I suppose in a slightly longer book, the shape of it would be that she was the stern grandmama who turned out to be very supportive. Yes. Academic grandmama, but in a short book and a, you know, a cheerful book throughout really, there was very little crisis. Yeah, I didn't really feel any conflict or any point. It was love. And you know, a nice little detail is that we got to see his mum reunited at the end
Starting point is 00:19:56 and she was so happy to see him. Yep. That was nice. And yeah, the nice little punchline of going to change his younger sister and he toddles along with his little bucket and spade. Oh, one thing he has a collection of before this starts, a collection of interesting sticks and potato shaped objects. I will note that there is a god of potato shaped objects specifically, of course, epidity. Ah, and we also see her in Mrs. Bradshaw's amdic. Excellent.
Starting point is 00:20:28 Any other details for you? No, I think we've gone through all the little bits I like. I mean, there's lots of more I could point out of just, ah, delightful illustration, delightful footnote, but also... Yeah. Oh, do you know what? No, we do have to mention one thing, which is that we find out how the fish dealt with in BS junk. Oh, the very thin trout like. Yes. Finally. There's a man whose job it is to turn the fish around.
Starting point is 00:20:54 No, in fact, I found the exact little bit we like to finish this section, which is by law, a nasty boing must be the last noise you hear when any humorous search is made in piles of junk. It's the law. No one knows who the law is, but nevertheless, it is the law. Yep. Now I respect that. Which goes nicely with some of the very earliest things we liked, which is the spinning plates and so on.
Starting point is 00:21:15 Yes, the single spinning spinning plate. The man who knows the law. Yep. Tangled hosepipe in a shed. Yeah. Regardless of whether or not you put a hosepipe in the shed, there'll be a tangled hosepipe in the shed. And ignorance is no excuse. Breaking the law. Everybody really should be adding the boyoyoyings into things. I've put a spring in my shed purely so that I can make a humorous boyoyoying on my way out. Yeah, you know,
Starting point is 00:21:41 it's just a little detail. It doesn't take much, Lance, to be a good citizen. Yeah. Yeah. And not interfere with the narrative causality of the universe. Okay. All right, what's next? On then to Dodger's Guide to London. Dodger's Guide to London. So this obviously came out as a companion piece to the book Dodger, which we talked about a couple months ago. It was published in November 2013. So to tie in with the paperback release, Dodger came out in September 2012. And this one with artwork by Paul Kidby. And this was another sort of co put together with Ben
Starting point is 00:22:16 Isabel Pearson from Discord Emporium. Something I was wondering as well. And so I thought I had a physical copy of Dodger's Guide to London and realised today, yesterday that I did not, couldn't find one and got it on the ebook. I can't hold them up for comparison, but Dodger's Guide to London and World of Pooh do have the same cover design. I'm wondering if there was a plan for it to be more of an ongoing thing because we have these three supplemental books in a row. And then you have these matching covers for the first two of them. I don't know if it was like Double Day or Transworld were kind of pushing for more of this stuff
Starting point is 00:22:53 or if it was just a phase of, oh, there's two in a row, we might as well make them look similar. Yeah, I think we were kind of hitting the part in Discworld's chronology where it was, and I know one of them's dodger, but where it was more possible, isn't it? Because this timeframe suits little spin-offs better like a travelling handbook. And also that books literally can exist functionally in the universe in a way. Yes, that's a good point. I mean, they did before, obviously, and these aren't the only supplemental books. Nanny
Starting point is 00:23:22 Og's cookbook was one, obviously that was a thing. Yeah, but yeah, I think having the more regular starts making more sense here. Yeah. And having like new children's books being written because obviously we have like the terrifying fairy tale book, but assuming that existed on the disk sort of pre-printing press. Yeah. That would be the sort of thing that like a family has and passes down. I think that's probably one of those books, but nobody really knows who bought it. It just appeared on the shelf. I think my grandma had it. It insinuates itself. Yeah, the books are fairy tales, just turn up.
Starting point is 00:24:01 Again, narrative causality. Don't mess with it. Do not take them to the charity shop. Or you can take it to a charity shop if you're pretty sure an overly curious child is going to come in right after. Yeah, that's good. With main character energy. Yeah, you do need to make sure someone with main character energy picks it up. But you have to hustle out looking haunted as they come in.
Starting point is 00:24:21 Yeah, and preferably if you are going to take it to a charity shop, take it to that weird one that like wasn't there yesterday and probably won't be there tomorrow, obviously. And again, I realize this isn't the most convenient way to run errands, but come on guys, a little bit of effort. Yeah, and we don't interfere with the narrative causality, which is very important. So yeah, Dodger's Guide to Learner is more of a broad
Starting point is 00:24:41 historical stuff. I feel like this is very Terry Pratchett going, I did all of this fun research and I could put it all into my Victorian book. So I'm going to put it all into a book. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, when we started talking about Dodger, I said, didn't I? There was an interview with him and he was like, I had to really rein myself in. And this is, I guess, the devalve, the steam valve being let loose. I should probably admit at this point that I forgot I was meant to read this book. And so I got about halfway through it this afternoon. But Joanna's being
Starting point is 00:25:13 very polite and not mentioning it, I feel I should at least mention it, if nothing else, because it's a nice expansion of the I forgot to read that one chapter bit of three years ago. Yeah, and this time you forgot an entire book. Yeah, which is, you know, pretty good to me, I think. Yeah. It is impressive. I will say that of the books of the three we're doing today, this is my least favourite of the three. Oh, really? Least favourite of three project books is still like a good book, obviously. It's just, I think
Starting point is 00:25:43 it's got a bit of a weird... I do read a lot of history books, but it's rare I read something that jumps around this much. I think the fact that I was reading it as an ebook didn't help because it feels very jumpy reading it on a phone screen. I think if I was looking at it the way it was meant to be presented, it would work a little bit better. I'll tell you what also might make you enjoy it more is if you read the Henry Makey book. Yeah, that is true. But I was also just had this weird feeling of like, I don't really know who this book is for. Because if you're a Massatir Pratchett fan, but you're mostly a big Discworld fan, like I know Dodger isn't the most popular of the non-Discworld books in the first place.
Starting point is 00:26:22 If you like history, but you want a bit of comedy with it, then like I can see it being like appealing because I grew up with sort of horrible histories and stuff. But now if I'm reading history, I probably want like more history and less comedies. There's lots of stuff in this book where it's like, oh, that's interesting. And now I want to go read a different book to learn more about it. I said, I don't think it's a bad book. I just think it's a weird one to sort of pick what the audience is meant to be. Yeah, it's, um, yeah, it's a very accessible version of the old dense Victorian books, I think, basically.
Starting point is 00:26:56 And I agree, I think it's hard to pin down an audience for it because it's got the overlay of like Dodger on it. It would be quite difficult to market it to like people who aren't existing Project Vans. Yeah, I think it only really works if or it works a lot better having with having read Dodger. But if it does only work in that sense, I'd almost like it to be more dodgery. Yeah, yeah. But I understand that would also be very hard to write, especially when it comes to I also want to get across lots of very interesting information. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I see what you mean. I like it a lot because I think at the moment I'm
Starting point is 00:27:37 you know, neck deep in this era of English history. And so it's just nice to read a few more two bits filtered through Pratchett. But I do agree, it's the odd one of the three. It's definitely but but but nonetheless, I bet I bet we have some fun bits. There was lots of just Oh, I really like these fun fact bits. The nice about the great exhibition of 1851, the Crystal Palace exhibition, because that's something I'm already quite fascinated by and at some point will probably dive a lot deeper into. And some of the subsequent big exhibitions and the World's Fair stuff in the United States as well. But I really did like the mention of the Tempest Prognosticator, a barometer that used leeches.
Starting point is 00:28:21 That's so cool, isn't it? What a name is that? Yeah, I could easily just get very obsessed with the barometer that uses leeches. That's so cool, isn't it? What a name as well. Yeah, I could easily just get very obsessed with the barometer that uses leeches. But I think I'd rather get obsessed with the idea of the great exhibition as a whole. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. There's only so much you can learn about leeches, but I was trying to itch a bit, you know? There is that. But yeah, I really like the interspersed adverts and things in it. Yeah, however, I'm sorry, I think some of them are redrawn on that, aren't they? Yes. I think I think the wording is the same, but all
Starting point is 00:28:57 Kid B's had a crack at it. Yeah, because they have got some genuine ones. Yeah, sorry, this is if I didn't say this is sorry, I see fast off our notes. And I love Paul Kippey's illustrations. Obviously, we like them all the time. And yeah, his sort of tapes on the Victorian adverts and stuff are very fun. My favourite one of them is on page, actually, there's no, I've got an ebook as well, page 63 of the ebook, which was just like aggressively enthusiastic wording, which is Ruben Holmes' peripatetic tin and pan Smith wire cages as speciality respectfully invites attention to his personal and most immediate response given to any household that maybe you need a repairs to any of the following kettles, band buckets. I also on that note, there was a Punch magazine that was published that was included in here, a Punch illustration that had all of the market traders yelling out various things and the market traders were labelled pay particular attention to or something like that.
Starting point is 00:30:05 Particular notice. Particular pay particular notice to and yeah, is that like a, I guess that's like part of market pattern? Maybe? Yeah, take particular notice. Take particular notice madam of this, this frappany pear. Yes. Frappany pear eh? I was trying to think of any fruit that wasn't suggestive and I couldn't.
Starting point is 00:30:28 Failed. Yeah. I was gonna start with peach. Definitely suggestive. I had like a little fucking fruit machine going off in my head there trying to think of anything that wasn't suggestive. You started with the two most suggestive ones. Exactly. I can't. I only had so much time before you started thinking I'd frozen again. Anyway, no, it's fine. A throppany pear is a type of donut. Yes, that's right. What little bit did you like?
Starting point is 00:31:00 Oh, the conversation reproduced between Gladstone and Disraeli. Oh, the conversation reproduced here between Gladstone and Disraeli. Oh, yeah. Because this is possibly one of my favourite comebacks of all time. Gladstone, Disraeli's political rival repeatedly once reputedly once told him, Sir, you will probably die by the hangman's noose or vile disease, to which Disraeli is rumored to have replied, Sir, that depends on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress. Ooh, ooh. Which, incredible ban.
Starting point is 00:31:30 Love that. There was a book mentioned in here called Beauty, What it is and how to retain it. Oh, yes. Which is insane. It's absolutely insane. You can rent. What's it borrow it in the library. And just literally, from the beginning, I think this is chapter, chapter one is like going on about classic poetry and saying how the you know, the Greek version was all well and good. But obviously, the Romans were a superior civilization and now it's, you forget sometimes when you're reading so much Victorian stuff that's centered around like industry and all that stuff, how mad the Victorians were.
Starting point is 00:32:13 Yeah. I mean, they pretty much came up with druids. Yeah. Which I really think says a lot. I think we've been giving the Victorians a lot of respect lately because of the the research we've been doing into the industrial revolution and trains and all that stuff. And I think it's good to remember that they are that shit. We've got here. England has been justly styled the land of beauty into this good gift of God she has been infinitely indebted. For it was to the beauty of sex and children that she owes her Christianity. And assuredly up to the present day this good gift has not failed us.
Starting point is 00:32:47 No race of men equal the stalwart sons of Britain. No maidens are so fair. And in no country is beauty more lasting. An ugly English girl is an anomaly." And going on like this, like, was that the prevailing thought at the time? Doubt it, anywhere outside of England, to be honest. Yeah, I think a choice was made there. But yeah, they she does at least. Well, I say she it's repeatedly written by a dot lady. A lady. But I'm of the
Starting point is 00:33:17 Somerset ladies of the Somerset ladies. I'm personally skeptical as to whether this was written by a lady. It's got the reply guy feel to it. Yeah. And the oh ladies, you're beautiful without this, that and the other. Which does at least say that your neck, your waist shouldn't be the same width as your neck, no matter what fashion demands, it should be at least twice as big. That's good. I support that. I support that specific one. I haven't borrowed it from Internet archives since you linked it to me. I will at some point but I really need again, I need to set aside some time. But just from the back page, obviously
Starting point is 00:33:51 it has the thing that's mentioned in this which is at night the teeth should be cleaned with very soft brush of bandage hair. It also suggests that gin may be used instead of Oedocolone. Oh, good to know. Yeah, I might, might start doing that. Slapped gin on your face every morning. Yeah, I can't see a problem with that at all. Well, that's what my ex and your ex boss used to use like, got a rag to go and clear out particularly bad toilets. Yeah, that's a good point.
Starting point is 00:34:18 Gin sake rag. Again, I did not love working there. The occasional look into our fast is... I'm not going to say cathartic. The other quote from the back page. Painters used, we believe, by some absurd women on the lips, We need scarcely say to their ultimate injury and always at the user's peril. Oh, my peril, I do apologise. You and your painted lips, Francine.
Starting point is 00:34:53 Sorry. Speaking of ladies, actually, part of the weird kind of this book doesn't know who it's for means it talks about prostitution in a very awkward way, whereas obviously trying to still be suitable for the young adult market. So, which is why it does well works because they're seamstresses. What do we call them naughty ladies or something? Yeah, naughty, which made me cringe. But we do have the wonderful little sketch here of two possibly quite naughty ladies at time midnight, a sketch
Starting point is 00:35:27 not 100 miles from the Haymarket. Bella says, Ah, Fanny, how long have you been gay? And I'm a child. So I laughed for a long time at that. So I didn't know gay used to be like a euphemism for sex worker. No, I didn't. Is that eventually how it ended up being used for gay people as like an insult? I don't know. I don't think because it went from that to happy. No, I think it was happy first. Was it happy before sex worker? Oh, it must have been. Yeah, so happy, free, very free with your what's it. With your what's it? Well, yeah, some people just say, free with your thruppany pair. God, try and say that
Starting point is 00:36:10 three times fast. Although with all Pratchett, as with all Pratchett, very appreciative of the fact he does not talk down about sex workers, even if he does call them naughty ladies. Yeah, he's using cringy vocabulary. He's not pretending they didn't exist. Yes, yes. And is not disapproving of them particularly. No, but quite realistic about it. But yes, this particular image, which is not one of Paul Kidby's, this is like a something from one of the Victoria magazines does say the great social evil, which is how I feel about naughty ladies. And painted lips. And painted lips, great social evil of lipstick and a bit of mascara.
Starting point is 00:36:49 Talking about actual social evils, obviously the workhouse stuff is always very depressing. This is the thing, isn't it, again, about reading anything about Victorians, is you read the interesting stuff and the progress made and this, that and the other, and then you remember how much it seems like that almost everybody of a certain class just really didn't think that the underclass was what they thought the underclass was an underclass and they were subhuman and Yeah, very much so. all the rules about the workhouse and the
Starting point is 00:37:19 Oh, yeah, the workhouse rules bit was upsetting to read. No making noise if you have not been permitted to make a noise. Never be seen in a ward other than the one you've been placed into. Yeah, yeah. Because there obviously there were substratas of class even within places like a workhouse because of course they emerge everywhere. And the Bedlam stuff is obviously very hard to read as well. emerge everywhere. And the Bedlam stuff is obviously very hard to read as well. Yeah. Yeah, that's always a fun one. I liked the bit on, and I've forgotten her name immediately. The, you know, the one we like, the charitable lady.
Starting point is 00:37:59 Angela Coots. At Coves. Yeah. I like Coots. Yes. I don't know if it's Coots or Coats or Counts. I'm gonna say not Counts. Yeah. But I guess, yes. I don't know if it's cute. So courts or counts. I'm gonna say not count. No, I didn't think it was counts. I think it's cute. But yes, I did like that. And I think we I'd like to read more about her. I'm just out. She was, I think I can't remember if we talked about this on the podcast or if
Starting point is 00:38:22 I just texted you about it. But she was president of the British Beekeepers Association. I'm sure we talked about this on the podcast or if I just texted you about it, but she was president of the British Beekeepers Association. I'm sure we talked about this on the podcast. A patron of the Goat Society. Yeah. Set up drinking fountain for dogs. We definitely, I think we texted about this and talked about it on the podcast, but yes, she was very cool and I want to get really obsessed with her.
Starting point is 00:38:39 Yeah, we stan her for sure. Big fan. I liked that, I liked the little list of Victorian slang. I always like those. I like those as well. I like the Interval histories. I like it here. Yeah. Did you pick out a couple that you particularly liked? I picked a favourite from the slang guide in Seven Curses of London by James Greenwood, Forge Bank Notes, but known as Queer Screens. Oh, lovely. And I'm going to bring back just using queer screens as some kind of tenor phrase. I've got for Piccadilly weepers, the type of gentleman's
Starting point is 00:39:12 whiskers. Yes. Excellent. Look at the Piccadilly weepers on that man. I'd give them a Throppany pair. Absolutely. Oh, I'm sorry. I've got another one that I can't not. Woolly bird stealers who stole sheep. Yep. So feagles. That's so Woodhouse. It is. I've met a sheep this morning, but it's quite a woolly bird. Bit of a woolly bird. On the other end of the class spectrum, by the way, from Miss Angela, another I would say equally
Starting point is 00:39:46 important icon is the notorious female mudlark who whenever she was caught, would resist and roll around in the mud determined to make the police as dirty as she would. Icon, absolute icon again, we stan. 10 out of 10, well done that woman. Stan. 10 out of 10. Well done that woman. Just a random detail, fun fact that I liked, because the history of department stores also really fascinates me. I have to borrow my book. I do actually need to borrow your book. Harrods introduced the first moving staircase in 1898. And a glass of brandy was offered at the top to help calm nervous customers. Do you know what, I walked up a stationary moving staircase the other day, I've forgotten
Starting point is 00:40:30 the name for it now, Escalator, the other week when I was in London. And that was weird. Yeah, it is. I've had to do that a couple of times. It feels odd. It does feel odd. It feels like when you're expecting another step in there isn't one. But the whole time you're going up it. Yeah. I had one the other day. I, not the other day when I was, came back from New York and I had to go through Gateway Carpool, one of the, you know, like the moving walkway
Starting point is 00:40:59 things wasn't on, but I was obviously on the moving walkway track. So I still walked across it and that was a very weird feeling. I didn't like that. I'm not sure what that feeling was, but it felt wrong. And I very nearly fell over when I walked onto it because I was just expecting my foot to move a bit and it didn't. But yes, no, I think glasses and brandy should be given out more often in department stores. Okay.
Starting point is 00:41:21 Mostly because I'm fascinated by the history of department stores. I don't like going in them. I used to love it. I loved Debenhams actually, as long as it wasn't absolutely packed. Busy. Yeah. I used to go to department stores. I liked it when I was younger. I still love a haberdashery section. If there's a little food hall bit, I love a food hall bit.
Starting point is 00:41:46 The problem with going into a little food hall bit is they always have all those different interesting jars of nice things you can buy. And I look at them and go, well, I'm not going to buy that because I can make that at home, but I never make it at home. Yeah. And also I don't want to carry jars around. Yes. Come out shopping, you know. Yeah. Jars is a specific type of annoying. You've got to be real careful and it's real heavy. And you can hear them clink. Even if you've carefully padded them, you'll hear them clink and it will be ominous every time they clink. Is this the clink that sends chilli jam?
Starting point is 00:42:14 Yeah. Or has the pickle come alive? Or is the pickle alive? Yeah. Sorry, do you have any other little bits you like from the Dodger book? I have an extra reference reference for this one. Oh, amazing. That's helpful. One of the little chapter X is called Aspidrata Land, and it's talking about the suburbanites
Starting point is 00:42:37 in middle class. Oh, yeah. I didn't know what that was, so I looked it up. It's a popular house plant, and it was such a popular houseplant in late Victorian Britain that it became a symbol of dull middle-class respectability. Incredible. That's what that is. Love that. A couple of just little moments. The most terrifying bit of this whole book is the,
Starting point is 00:43:00 did you know pantomimes could last up to five hours? I didn't. I don't think I got to that part in the book. Oh my god, tell me about it. It was literally like that as an isolated thing. It was to do with a bit about theatre and musical and all of that stuff. But yeah, just that as an isolated line struck terror in my heart. Yeah, I bet. Did you get... I take it you didn't get to the section that talked about newspapers and Fleet Street either then? No. Oh, I take it you didn't get to the section that talked about newspapers and Fleet Street either then?
Starting point is 00:43:26 No, oh I'm sorry. Oh no it's fine, but the on newspapers bit opens with, in which we meet those who specialise in the most heinous and extravagant usage of the English vocabulary in their extraordinary efforts to report on recent events and activities in order to acquire for themselves the highest pecuniary renumerations. Pecuniary renumerations? Renumerations? Oh god, I cannot say that word. You got it the first time. No, I said renumerations. It's not, it's remunerations.
Starting point is 00:43:54 Remunerations? Is it? Yeah. I get that wrong all the time. It sounds like it should be, but renumerations, but if it's numera, like being paid, like number, money, that's not our fault. That's theirs. Theirs being the people who made language. And there's obviously there's a section at the end of the book that talks about sort of post Dodger era Victorian stuff and things that were coming and there is a nice little
Starting point is 00:44:15 bit about the approach of the steam industry. So I think Pratchett probably had raising steam very much on the mind by the time this was happening. Yeah, definitely. So it's very nice thinking about going from Dodger into raising steam because we are moving from that Victorian era to the Discworld equivalent of the latter Victorian era and the Industrial Revolution. I did send you a screenshot of my favourite advert, I think, from Dodger.
Starting point is 00:44:43 Oh, you did. And I just go to London, which is, do you wish to avoid being strangled? Yes, the antique, garroting collar. The antique, garrote collar, which looks like a hardcore, goss bit of jewellery. Yeah. So I would like one. Any blacksmiths listening? Mm hmm. And of course, I would like to avoid being strangled.
Starting point is 00:45:11 Well, yeah, I'd also like to not be strangled. I just don't normally think about that when selecting jewellery. And I feel like maybe that's, you know, I don't get strangled a lot, but maybe that is where I'm going wrong in my life. And these are warranted to withstand the Griffiths most muscular ruffian in the metropolis. Say that three times with a gin aftershave. The most muscular ruffian in the metropolis. I'd say that three times with a gin aftershave. The most muscular ruffian in the metropolis. I haven't put my gin aftershave on yet to be fair. I'll go and do a shot when we have a break and then I'll come back and try and say it again. Right. The last of the three books we're talking about today is Mrs Bradshaw's handbook.
Starting point is 00:45:45 Yes. This obviously comes from Raising Steam, it's also inspired by the actual Bradshaw rail travel guides. This came out in October 2014. So again, alongside the Raising Steam paperback release, it's definitely my favourite of the three that we're talking about today. Yeah, same. The show. The railwayway Traveler's Handy Book of Hints, Suggestions and Advice that I've been reading for the Rabbit Hole, I haven't finished it. And for the books on SNUF, not SNUF, the other one, Raising Steam has something to say about Bradshaw. Oh, really? and steam has has something to say about Bradshaw. I really thought it was quite good. And well, first
Starting point is 00:46:27 of all, there were two in common use two types of railway guide, there was the ABC, which was a work of easy reference, just kind of direct to the point, whatever. And then Bradshaw is also says the well known Bradshaw is the other guy taken into the railway, travelled as confidence. It contains a mass of information compressed into the very smallest compass, but on that account and by reason of various signs and symbols having to be made use of, it is not so easy of interpretation as it might be. This fact has given rise to innumerable witticisms on its unintelligibility. And we must confess that although we are acquainted with with a few of the initiated to whom Bradshaw is as easy as ABC, we have never yet met with a lady who did not regard it as a literary puzzle. Incredible. While the majority of the sterner sex has failed to master its
Starting point is 00:47:18 intricacies. Every now and then, again, I remember it's terrible people writing these. But yeah, he has a whole bit about how to read Bradshaw. And there were like, yeah, he's got like a thing about the various symbols. He's saying, beware of mistaking the up trains for the down trains or vice versa. But it does have things like reference to the market days and other local extintions, which we see in the Mrs Bradshaw's handbook, obviously, and bits about the information you get in the boarding houses and hotels. The glowing terms in which every proprietor speaks of his establishment was not, of course, being interpreted literally. Of course.
Starting point is 00:48:10 Of course. And yeah, I don't own the Bradshaw's Handbook. I believe they're still publishing the Railway Timetables, but I'm going to try and get my hands on an old. Yeah, I might look out for an old one at some point. But yeah, no, I really love this one. I was thinking about it like in the context of Raising Steam as well. I mean, talking about like how much I want these books to exist after reading the book they spin off from, this is definitely the one I wanted the most. I feel like this is the reason you wrote that question. Yeah, also that. This is the only one I wrote about and thought, oh, I want that. Yeah. But also, you know, when we talked about Raising Steam being written and, like in Rob's words, he said Terry Pratchett was still downloading as he wrote it. And I think, in a sense, like in Raising Steam, the plot does
Starting point is 00:48:49 get quite rambly in the middle. And there's definitely this sort of vibe that Pratchett was less interested in plot compared to quite literally playing with this new train set he's invented for himself. So this book is like where he gets to, it's like this, all the kind of like with Dodger being all the historical stuff that he didn't get a chance to put in. This is just all the fun world building how steam gets to affect all of the disk. And so many callbacks as well. Yes. It's like very, yeah, big mix of future and past in this one.
Starting point is 00:49:18 And callbacks to things we haven't heard of. Well, same with SNAP. I can't get them separate in my head. Same with Raising Steam really, wasn't there? They were, you know, callbacks to places we haven't been for 30 books. Is it because SNUF was so, it was obviously a Vimes book and all you can really remember from Raising Steam is Vimes ripping your shirt off on top of the train. Was there anything else in that book? No, it was just Vimes ripping your shirt off on top of the train. It was just that. Yeah, is that recall?
Starting point is 00:49:42 Imagination. I can't remember how we got three episodes out of it, but we did somehow. By devoting much of our time to talk about Vimes ripping his shirt off while on top of a train. Sorry. I've distracted you now. Hello and welcome to The Truth Show. We're here with Fran, the book in which we're reading and recapping Vimes ripping his shirt off on top of a train. The only thing that happened in 41 books.
Starting point is 00:50:08 Yeah. Can't remember why we care really. Who's Vimes? Who is this Vimes guy? Why is he ripping his shirt off on top of a train? And why is he so mesmerizing? That's what we're here to find out. So we spent five years doing it.
Starting point is 00:50:21 I was watching Life on Mars and Ash's edits the other day on TikTok. As you do. Yeah, as you do as I do occasionally. And I thought, oh shit, what's his name? John Sim. Yeah, no, the character's name though. Gene Hunt. Yes. Yeah, I thought, yeah, Gene Hunt had a bit of the vimes to him occasionally, not very, you know, vimes in a dodgy copper, but the kind of gruffness and the heart gold at the end kind of thing. And I thought actually,
Starting point is 00:50:49 love to see a Discworld, Life on Miles, Usher's Trash has been going on by Vimes. Well, I mean, that's Nightwatch, isn't it? In that he's kind of gone back to the past. Yeah, I guess it is. Yeah, no, it kind of is. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I never actually probably watched it. I guess what I'm saying is I want nightwatch again. But where Vines takes a shirt off on top of a drink. Wait, didn't he? He got a nightwatch.
Starting point is 00:51:14 Oh, what happened then? Something with some ginger beer, I don't really know. Revolution, I guess. Not as important as Vines taking a shirt off on top of shirt off. Should we talk about Mrs. Branshaw's handbook? Yeah. The first thing I learned... Sorry, in which sadly, no one takes that up off. Well, not that she wrote down. Mrs. Branshaw, I think is a little more genteel than that. Good point.
Starting point is 00:51:38 I did learn that train bashing is train spotting, but you're on a train. That's cool. I do like that. I also love that the train spotters are known as anoranks. Yes. It's a terrible little pun. It is. And there was also there were two anorank puns, weren't there? Because there was an advert for something called orak or something like that. Yes. It was like a waterproof jacket. And so you can always rely on anorak. Yes. It was like a waterproof jacket and so you can always rely on an Aurac. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Roll.
Starting point is 00:52:10 Fancy and you can't just give sarcastic thumbs up. This isn't an audio medium. I don't know. I feel like people could hear that. Yeah, no, actually, the vibes were strong. Also, at least there's a couple people watching this. Yeah. It's not as bad as it was in the early days where I'd give sarcastic thumbs up to literally no one. I did like all of the I liked all of the food stuff. Obviously, I did try and limit myself to not pointing out every little foodie joke.
Starting point is 00:52:39 Okay, so will you read out some of them? Because I didn't highlight as many as I might have because I figured you would. but will you read out some of them because I didn't highlight as many as I might have because I figured you would. I picked my favourite which is the ad for Verity Pushpram's Winkle stall, which includes Freedermare. Nice. Which just delighted me as a little thing. The fact that we've also got the rat kiosks, Gimlet's Rat to Go kiosk. And that includes a Royale with fleas. You just said Rat-to-Go and now all that's in my head is R-A-T-G-O-G-O. You can sell your rat-to-go. Nice, right? I bet we can do a whole parody of that. You're saying we should do an advert for Gimlet's Rat-A-Goe Kiosk.
Starting point is 00:53:27 You can get me one, get me rat with ketchup. Something, something, something. Yeah, right? Okay. Let's work on that. Listeners, answers on a rat with ketchup. Thank you. But yes, Royale with Fleas, terrible joke. Love it greatly. Absolutely beautiful. And what was, you sent me a link to the wonderful Goblin recipe structure as well.
Starting point is 00:53:50 Yes, yeah. I just thought that you might enjoy rewriting some of your recipes one day in that interesting syntax. I haven't got it in front of me, but it's something like- Of the gill of the Shaggy Ear, add five of the slippery stalk in the rain, one of the blushing toadstool, the caps of many. My favourite line in this is under the waterfall, the drips
Starting point is 00:54:09 of an hour. What a way to measure water in waterfall drips. Yeah, absolutely. So how would you translate that to a fan oven, do we think? Well, I think it's less of a, I feel like the analogy is less fan oven translation, but for the sake of the waterfall drips, it's more like if you're using cups versus doing weight measurements, which you should always use weights rather than volume measurements if you're baking for precision. Yes. But I think if you are going to measure in waterfall drips, it's fine. Just make sure you have some consistency of waterfalls. And this was a soup. Yeah. So you can always just simmer it for a bit longer if you need to.
Starting point is 00:54:45 Yeah. But yeah, you're right. If you're using somebody else's waterfall, you've got to take note of what the flow is like in comparison to your own waterfall. Yeah. Like if the flow is obviously different to your waterfall. I'm assuming everyone cooking these recipes has their own personal waterfall, obviously. Yeah. How else are you making soup? Yeah. I try and write stuff in simple kitchens, but I do assume you have the basics, like your own waterfall. Yeah, yeah.
Starting point is 00:55:07 Massive bubbling cauldron. Yeah. I like your recipe book. It's like, if you don't have a spoon, you can use this, that or the other. But obviously, you've got a huge cauldron and a waterfall. And several dozen types of mushroom. But if you don't have a spoon, you can use one of Jeffrey's interesting sticks, as long as you ask first. I suppose like for cooking instead of measurements, then you could say of the day's heat, three quarters or something, and that can translate somehow to... Yeah. Again, I think this might need some workshopping. It might need some workshopping. Of the wrap, the ketchup. Of the wrap. No, no, no, no, this might need some workshopping. It might need some workshopping. Of the rats, the ketchup.
Starting point is 00:55:46 Of the rat. No, no, no, no. Because the ketchup and the rat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Remove of the rat, the flavour. No, of the rat, the flavour remove with of the tomato, the essence. Yes. Yeah. For God's sake.
Starting point is 00:56:02 Another, another food bit that is less of a actual food bit, but in the Quermian section, we not only have a reference to floral clocks and some interesting developments of floral alarm clocks. But I love Mrs. Bradshaw, obviously reminisces about her time at Querm Ladies College, of course she does. And she mentions that there's a lovely fish and chip shop in Three Roses Alley and it's still staffed by a very handsome man. He must be the son of the good-looking man that was in charge when she used to go to the fish and chip shop when she attended the school. Of course, I'd swear he's elvish. Here's a chance to redeem yourself, Joanna.
Starting point is 00:56:39 Yes, which is a line, the bloke who works down the chip shop swears he's elvish is a reference to the song, there's a bloke who works down the chip shop swear he's elvish by Kirsty McColl not by Kate Bush. There we go. Sorry for sending Joanna emails. How long ago was that? That was song music, that was a while ago and we do still occasionally get emails telling me that it was Kirsty McColl and not Kate Bush and now I'm really scared I've got it
Starting point is 00:57:04 the wrong way around again. See the worst part is that Joanna texted me telling me that it was Kirsty McCollum not Kate Bush. And now I'm really scared I've got it the wrong way around again. Sarah- See, the worst part is that Joanna texted me telling me she realized she'd made the mistake before we even released the episode. But you know, there's nothing we could do at that point, unless we took out that altogether. And yeah. Emma- I think it was either that same episode- Sarah- It was edited already, like I wasn't willing to go back in entirely. Emma- It was either that same episode. I'm pretty sure it was that same episode where I Yeah. It was either that same episode. I'm pretty sure it was that same episode where I got the name of a song by The Who wrong and said the song was Teenage Waste Land and it's not the actual title of the song is Barbara O'Reilly. So yeah, I mean, we got lots of engagement.
Starting point is 00:57:41 Yeah. Yeah. If we were trying for rage bait, rather than being extremely sensitive about criticism. I can finally redeem myself and say that. God, that'd be terrible. We're never going to make influences, Joanna. No, I don't think I should be influential, Frances. No, for God's sake. One of the food bits I highlighted was just the concept of honey roast ham meringue. Yep. I kind of in felt whistle. I want to try somehow inventing a savoury pavlova after reading that. Yeah. And also the in's name is the pig borer's tale. Yes. Oh, there was a bit about pig boring slightly earlier and that's
Starting point is 00:58:19 actually just like a very brief, this is something that is practiced around here. That's with the rolling pigs and the... So yes, shout out Petunia, although she's not here directly, but she's here in spirit. Yes, the combat sprout. I do actually, I did grab a favourite quote from this section because there's a little passage in the choir mouth section that just brought me a lot of joy. On seaside behaviour. Oh my god I think we both highlighted this as maybe our only vote. Fantastic please. I was thinking about asking just to see if we had ended up both noting down this
Starting point is 00:59:00 quote. People do behave in a different way at the seaside. Gentlemen roll up their trousers and paddle like small children, while staid matrons along with giddy girls in service sport broad brimmed hats embroidered with a message demanding that they be kissed and quickly. Troll nannies, slightly comatose from the heat, smile benignly at their charges as they allow sand to be heaped over their bodies. I've even seen a few dwarfs remove their headgear and expose their bearded faces to the sun. There must be a residual magic in that strand between land and sea. Yeah, just that last sentence I highlighted.
Starting point is 00:59:32 Or rather, I typed out because I have the physical book. So that was the only one I bothered with. And yeah, just that there must be residual magic in that strand. Isn't that beautiful? It is wonderful. Yeah, I think altogether, like my favourite part of the book was just the amount of Easter eggs. Like this is such a fan. Yeah, this is for Discworld.
Starting point is 01:00:00 It's so good. The Rincewind spotting, did you spot Rincewind? Yes, he was somewhere around the netherglades. Yeah, he was left behind a worn and very muddy pair of sandals. There was another netherglades but actually there was also a sort of V-stroke thing, there's a moving pictures reference. The people tried to start their own railway line and build a holiday resort in the netherglades. And the workers were very unhappy because they kept finding women in filmy clothing tied to the railroad tracks in the mornings who disappeared as the mists lifted. Litvik was blamed and accused of hiring them from the Pink
Starting point is 01:00:34 Pussycat Club, but he pointed the finger at Holywood. But I feel like this is also, this is like the fight on top of the train, like you've introduced trains now at some point a woman does have to be tied to the train tracks. Narrative causality? Yeah. I don't know about you, but I at least once a year make sure I do that if I'm going to be commuting. I do do it while twirling my mustache, obviously, and someone holds up a card
Starting point is 01:00:57 saying ha ha ha. Yeah, do it properly. Absolutely. And then we all do the constant. You've got the weird piano music next to you as well. So go with a friend. That's what I'm saying. Bring a pianist if you can. Yeah. A word I like to say very carefully when I say it. Yes, possibly the word of need, most need of enunciation, isn't it? Fuck me. But yeah, just the obscure little ones as well.
Starting point is 01:01:26 Like the putters result, the monument put up to the time there was nearly a terrible massacre but everyone found cider. We've got Snapcase mentioned. And then expanded on a little bit. Yeah, just fucking all sorts, right? Yeah, obviously the descriptions of Xemthvis and Ohul and Katash and how that like ties back to equal right so nicely. I was slightly sad there was no Zunes. I was hoping for a Zune mention. I guess they probably moved on from that part of the world after everything went to shit.
Starting point is 01:01:59 That's not a place for a Zune, is it? That is a very good point. It is still sad, you're right yeah but I can see why that happened. Oh and lighting a fire on Big L.O. now that's a callback. What's that a callback to? It's a callback to either the color of magical the light fantastic where Rincewind et al camp for the night on a mountain and it turns out to be someone's tongue. Oh yeah of course and that in itself is kind of a reference to the hobbit and the tracing from the hobbit. Yeah yeah. So there we are. Luckily they didn't light it on the very sensitive area and therefore weren't crushed with what was extreme prejudice or something like that. Yes that was in
Starting point is 01:02:40 colour of magic. Yeah. Bratch wood chairs, another little bit I like. Yeah, and they come and nudge at the back of your knees if they like you, hoping you sit down. And a fratch wood bed might rock you to sleep a bit. Very cute idea. A little domesticated sapient powered perhaps. Yeah, like there's a line in there about this isn't quite as as sapient a sapient powered and less dangerous as a result.
Starting point is 01:03:11 Yeah. We get a little call out for King Olav, Kerry's terrible father. Yes. Just in the naming of a gate. Is King Olav not also the Olav the Unready one? There was Olav the Unready. Oh, that's right. That might be his gate actually. Yeah. But Olav the bastard was Kerry's dad, Kelly's dad. Yeah. Sorry Sorry, I just opened a random page and got the lovely line, I think, talking about
Starting point is 01:03:30 quirm. A gentle breeze carries with it the aroma of fresh coffee and centre floral displays mixed with a hint of scallops on the turn and the evocative smell of the pungent tobacco is made by local inhabitants. There's so many just also wonderful bits of description in this book that all have the joke bits in them as well. Yeah. And practically, his kind of signature, and we talked about it more at the beginning of the podcast because you can't just really go on and on and on, but just the way he constructs these sentences, the internal rhymes and the alliteration and the cadence and the rhythm is all... Oh, it's wonderful.
Starting point is 01:04:10 The way he can squeeze a joke in anywhere. I also like that there is a place called Heyon Anke. Heyon Y is one of my favourite places. On that very same page, actually, which I happen to be on, the retirement clowns is surely one of your... Well, the next page, rather. Oh, I don't think I noted the retirement clowns is surely one of your, or the next page rather. Oh, I don't think I noted the retirement clowns. Page 53, La Sorbam, the Bulls Guild summer school and retirement home. Oh, I missed that one. Mm hmm. I did read this in a hurry. Yes.
Starting point is 01:04:38 But yeah, despite their age and limited mobility, there are a lot of cream pies and banana skins dotted about the place. So it is only a matter of time, Virgil thinks that the four things go terribly wrong. Triflefish and yeah, this is just a lovely little book to have. have. Yeah. And it's very nice to dip in and out of. You can kind of pick it up, read it anywhere and you can spot obviously, it's all in the Discworld, but you can spot these specific references and little bits, you know, there's lots of talk of lumberjack villages, especially towards the forest of Scunnd and all the explanation of how, you know, lives have been polluted since eagles have moved nearby. Yes, you don't put the limbs in front of the... eagles have moved nearby.
Starting point is 01:05:24 Yes, you don't put the limbs in front of the... Svevo? What's his name? Svevo. Yes, the menoli rituals that now have wooden limbs in place. Leave them to it. Yeah, whatever. Oh, and of course, you can't talk about lumberjacks without the joke. And so they talk about having a very enthusiastic little chorus as well. Oh, I didn't even make the connection. I thought it was quite subtle. I think it was good to avoid. Yeah. I put on women's clothing and hang around in bars.
Starting point is 01:05:51 There are many bars to hang around in though. I'm loving all of these. The woodcutter's arms, that's the one, isn't it? Yes. That's the one with the fractured bed. It's and just at the end, you have the little note from Mrs Bradshaw, and she recommends some other books for traveling to other areas, and a sort of pal of hers who's written one for Boomerwald, and her last line of, thank you for purchasing this little book.
Starting point is 01:06:14 Yeah. I thought it was a very nice little detail. It was. A bit of an unusual episode structure for us today. I hope you don't mind listeners, and we really would like to hear your favorite little bits from all three of you. Yes, tell us share your thoughts. Answers on. Nothing to your favourite please. Yeah, yes. Some paperwork.
Starting point is 01:06:37 Clean, please. Chainmail if you're a dwarf. Again, clean please. If it's about London, I suppose it had better be on a chip wrapper. Yeah, or something like that. And if no a pie wrapper. That's right. We had a lot of pies. Yes, three quarter of a million pie the year on the street London at this time. Incredible. That's stuck in my head. Didn't even write that down. That's just a lot of pies. And if you're writing to us about Mrs Bradshaw, beautiful stationary and exquisite handwriting,
Starting point is 01:07:08 please. Or scrawled on the back of an old train ticket. Yes, either is fine. Beautiful. All right. I think that's everything we're going to say about these three wonderful little books. We'll be back properly next week with part one of The Shepherd's Crown. If you keep an eye on all our socials and the usual places, we'll post how we're splitting that book up to talk about it.
Starting point is 01:07:31 If you're in our Discord, we'll probably make a separate spoilers chat for you. And I think we are gonna keep the book discussion. So we only talk about what happens in each section. So if you do want to literally read a section and listen, you will be safe too. We won't talk about the future events of the book. Yes, I'm actually going to be careful and read the whole thing at once and then.
Starting point is 01:07:50 Yes, we're going to be very strict on spoilers. But yeah, as I said, at the end of our last episode, do it, come with us. Come on, come to the final stop on the journey. Don't worry about it. Yeah, the final stop on the journey. We're on the journey. We're worry about it. Yeah, the final step on the journey. We're on the journey. We're steam powered now. Come on. Okay. Until next time, dear listeners, you can of course join our discord. There's a link down below. You can follow us on Instagram at the True Show Make You Fret, on Twitter and Blue Sky, Make You Fret pod, on Facebook at the True Show Make You Fret, our subreddit art slash TTSMYF. Email us your thoughts, queries, castles, snacks, gargoyles, pigeons, old train tickets
Starting point is 01:08:25 and pie wrappers. Gargoyles and pigeons. The Truth Shall Make You Fret pod at gmail.com. And if you want to support us financially, you can go to patreon.com forward slash the truth shall make you fret where you can exchange your hard earned pennies for all sorts of bonus nonsense. And until next time, dear listener. don't let us detain you. I sound more confused than usual there. Don't let us detain you. Don't let us detain you. Don't let us detain you. Don't let us detain you. Don't let us detain you. There we go, alright. One of those isn't normal. I didn't do it normally once. Don't let us detain you.
Starting point is 01:09:12 There we go.

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.