The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret - Hogswatch Special 2019 - Xmas Egg Dress

Episode Date: December 23, 2019

The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret is a podcast in which your hosts, Joanna Hagan-Young and Francine Carrel, recap and discuss every book from Sir Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series in chronological order. This week - a special bonus Hogswatch special! We discuss the 2008 TV adaptations of “The Colour of Magic” & “The Light Fantastic”.A Surprise Festive Guest! Mulled things aplenty! A sword! The pGloybe! An attempt at positivity! Incredible CGI! Some rants! F: It’s Christmas, and I can’t be bothered to edit this down to its usual length. So, please enjoy this BUMPER BONUS FESTIVE FEATURE LENGTH EXTRAVAGANZA.  Things we blathered on about: The Watch Adaptation details (Radio Times)The GlobeThe DyskAo3 (archiveofourown.org)Effulgent - “Shining brightly; radiant.” (Lexico)The Colour of Magic (IMDb)Noma Dumezweni Rosie & JimThe Jim Henson Company Figwit (Fanlore.org)F: I got my plays muddled. The Mousetrap is the longest-running West End show. People are asked not to spoil the ending, but it’s the same. Shear Madness, a Broadway show, is another long-running production that does have different endings. What About Dick? (IMDb)Music: Chris Collins, indiemusicbox.com

Hello and welcome to The True Shall Make You Threat, a discworld podcast where one of your co-hosts makes the other one watch a godawful TV adaptation of her favourite books and then doesn't turn up to the fucking recording. So hello, my name's Francine Carroll and I am sitting opposite a mug of mild wine that's going quite quickly. Cool! Today we're... oh fuck me, what's that? Ho, ho, ho! Happy Hogs One! It's the Hogfather! The mild wine must have attracted him into this dimension. Hello Francine. Hi Hogfather, what are you doing here? First of all Francine, why don't you tell me what you're up to? Oh well, I'm meant to be doing a podcast about the TV versions of the colour of magic and the light. Fantastic, but I suppose I can put that off for a bit.

Excellent, that sounds like great fun. Now Francine, what would you like for Christmas or solstice or hogwash deletes appropriate? Oh I'd like a sword please. A sword? Yes a sword. Oh thank you! Look what I happen to have in my bag, it's a sword. Oh it's very sharp. Excellent, don't hurt yourself with it or do, that's how you'll learn. And you will be good? I will try to be good. That is the contract. Excellent. Very well. Have a happy Hogs Watch Francine. I will. I must be off. On Gouter, on Router, on Tusker, on Snout. Oh well, that was a festive interval. Now I suppose I'd better... Hi, sorry, didn't need to be late. Joanna, you're finally here, where the fuck have you been? Well, I'm definitely not finding a sword.

In this economy? A sword? In this economy? Probably Waitrose. Yeah, no, Waitrose didn't have any luckily, M&S still had a perfect stock in. You said you wanted a sword, I brought you... Why have you already got a sword? Well, do you know what? It's a long story. Shall we make a podcast then? Make a podcast. Do some more jingles. Hi, do you want to introduce us properly then? Hello and welcome to the Tooth Shall Make You Frat, a podcast in which we read, recap and discuss all of Toby Pratchett's Discord Novels in Chronological Order. This is our Hogs Watch special. Hooray! It's a show we can get the Hogfather to pop in, ready? Yes. I don't know why I'm keeping this a secret from you in this bit.

I guess I'm just a chat. You don't want me to be sad that I missed the Hogfather. That's it, that's it. Yes, no, I'm considerate. Anyway, this is our Hogs Watch special and we are not talking about the book or movie Hogfather because we're trying to stay spoiler-like. Yeah, it's a little well off, how far off? Like, if we stay in schedule, we'll hit it, not next June, but the June after, so that's why we're stretching. That's why we're adding in other books. Anyway, are you saying you're adding in complete, like, sets of episodes just so we can line up Hogs Watch with Christmas? Yeah. That's commitment, I like it. All right. Me? As long as you're the one working out the schedule, that's fine. Yeah, it also means we

can take a month off at some point if we get bored. And we're going to cut all of this while it's over. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's fine. Cool, great. Anyway, so today we are talking about the Sky TV 2008 adaptation of The Colour of Magic and The Light Fantastic, which Francine loved. Yeah, so thanks, I hate it, is my executive summary. Excellent. But before we get to that, shall I look in this marvellous sack of letters to the Hogfather that's been mysteriously left here. As if we've got any notes from our... Sorry, I did a really good job at this. Look, we commit to the bit for long enough. I feel like... Yeah, anyway, let's read some letters. Notes from listeners. First of all, Alex, thank you for emailing us and pointing out that it's

Nigel Plano who reads the audiobooks because now I have a really good excuse to go back and re-watch the young ones. Also, it meant I spotted that Nigel Plano had a cameo in the TV movie as the arch astronomer, the weirdly racist moustache. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that guy. That's Nigel Plano. Or Neil. But yeah, watch the young ones. We had a really lovely listener email with a couple of questions, which she wanted to know if we'd be watching the Watch TV series and what we thought so far. Oh yeah, I think we talked about that in an episode that we've already recorded but which will be published after this one. Yeah, I think so. But I think basically I'll watch it and you will watch it if I tell you it's okay. Yeah, basically I'm really excited for

it as a TV series and really not excited for it as a discworld adaptation. Yes, and if it's far enough removed that I can enjoy it as a completely separate thing, I think I'll enjoy it. Yeah, they have said it's really loosely based on, I think... I'm less annoyed that this adaptation exists, but it feels like this adaptation is removing the chance to have a really direct adaptation of the watch books, which makes me a bit sad. It looks for a few years, yeah, probably. On the plus side, hopefully it'll die on its ass take a few years and then I'll get chosen to either write or be in the new very direct adaptation of the watch books. Yeah, yeah. Aiming to be a showrunner by then. Who do you want to be? Oh, if I'm in it? Yeah. I don't know, I'm not hot and

blonde enough to be Angua, so I would accept like a bit part if I'm also just working on the show and play like Mrs. Palm or something. If I give it 20 years he could always be Sibyl. Yeah, I mean, I feel like long term I want to be Sibyl, but I don't think I'm there yet. I can't think any character I want to be apart from Sibyl either, to be honest. Yeah, but I've got the ass for it. Yeah, you do. It's out of the two of us. One of us has the Sibyl body type. Um, a second question for my lovely listener. I would like to know how we would spend a day in Ang Moorpork. Yeah, I actually found this really difficult to answer. Um, as I thought I wouldn't. Yeah. What was yours anyway? Well, this is part of the reason I found it difficult to answer

is that I think it's very likely I'd get stabbed, which is not how I want to spend a day. I'm just being realistic about my chances, clumsiness and likelihood of bumping into a thief or a mugger. Yeah. How is it worded exactly? Is it how would we spend a day or how would we want to spend a day? Because that's a good point. Yeah. Um, let me double check the email. I like to be pedantic about these things. Other details, which would be useful, but I assume aren't in the email would be is somebody forcibly going to take me back at the end of the day? Um, I feel like you can't make it permanent. Can I speak Moporkian? Yeah. Based on the color of my dress, like if you could spend a day in Ang Moorpork, how would you spend it? Okay. Okay. So I feel like

you've got a lot of freedom of choice. I'm just saying if someone's forcibly taking me back at the end, then the answer might be seeking asylum within a watch headquarter or running off to I feel like you're putting more thought into this than necessary. Well, yeah, that's what happens. I was trying to procrastinate doing the hoovering. So fair enough. But yeah, so I'm sorry. What was your answer? Yeah, it probably gets stabbed. But I would like to visit the, the disc where they have all the theater. Disc with a Y. Disc with a Y because it's oldie fashioned, ye olde. Like the globe also spelled the Y. Yeah. The P is silent.

I just said it's silent drama. Yes. But the phonetic pronunciation of the globe is the proglobe. I did almost a whole drama AS level to learn that. Theater studies. Sorry, theater studies. Gosh, Joanne, you sound an awful lot like the Hogfather today. What's wrong with you? I've got a sore throat. I genuinely do. That has nothing to do with it. Hang on. What do you mean I sound like the Hogfather? Oh, well, you know, like he always sounds on those, like maybe they haven't watched or whatever. Okay. Okay. But no, I genuinely have a really sore throat. But I am I know you don't want to point these things out on podcast. I, because you don't notice nice you do. But I feel like people are going to notice because you do sound pretty ill. It's, I don't

even feel ill. I just, my voice has gone a bit husky. See, I wish I got like- Sing me Santa, baby. Santa, baby. No, see, I feel like- Oh, we need to write a disc world version. Okay. I did work on a satanic version last year. But I think I got as far as Satan, baby. Uh, God, I can't even remember now. There was something about goat sacrifice. Opening up portals to the dad of the world. Is that what turned into you? I was, I think it was because I was watching the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. I thought Satan, baby would be a really good song. I might still try and do that before Christmas. Okay. If so, we'll throw it at the end of the podcast. Well, I'm going to try and write Hogfather, baby, even though it doesn't work. Yeah, I mean, that doesn't scan. Yeah,

that's all right. I'll work it out. I'm good at this shit, man. Hogswatch, baby. Hogswatch, baby. There we go. Poet, motherfucker. Poet, motherfucker. There we go. So, if I could spend a day on the disc, I would probably get that, but I would like to go, I'd like to go to the globe, to the globe. And I feel like I had another answer, but it's just kind of, I mean, I want to go hang out with all the watch people, but like, I just sort of be on the phone. They wouldn't want to hang out with us, let's be honest. Yeah, it's like, yeah, my answer would be, I want to hang out with this person and that person. They wouldn't know that. Why would they hang out with me? Because even my answer, my proper answer, would possibly fall afoul of that, which is I want to go hang out in

the library in the on-scene university, but I'm going to need, yeah, I'm going to need some kind of, I suppose I could do an escarina. Yeah, you can sneak in as a cleaner, or you can just like, stick a big beard and a hat on. Yeah, I mean, how closely do they check? Probably not that closely. I reckon beard and a hat and you're away. Yeah. And the library on my mind. No, the the librarian seems like a, a banana. Yeah, they're kind of, they're from a shifting tree. That's what I mean, what's the word I'm trying to think of? A egalitarian type. Yeah. I write and they're famous for their egalitarianism. Yeah, why not? I'm not going to check that. Please don't check that either, listeners. Anyway, other notes from our lovely listeners.

Ellen on Facebook, look, it was appalled at the Vimes and Veterinary Shipping, but we had to picture it. So, so do you. Although, until I, sorry, can I say that I really want to reiterate, it was your fault. Yeah. That was sending the kind of tone of voice that made it. But like, that's because I came across it on the internet, so it's the internet's fault. Also, I hadn't really pictured. What corners of the internet were you in, Joanna? Dirty fanfic ones. Where else would I be? Wait, is there more internet? I haven't found my way out of adult fanfic on that. Okay, no, I'm classy. I'm going with AO3. AO3. AO, like the letter? Yeah. They got a Hugo award. Did they? Yeah, it was like contribution to something. I can't remember

the award. To what? I can't remember the. The weird masturbation. The archive of our own or AO3 got as a collective a Hugo award. So if you've ever published fanfiction on there, you're technically a Hugo award-winning writer. Noice. Anyway, the point is, once I wrote down, we had a picture of Anne's Veterinaria, so you do too, and then actually pictured it, which was a mistake, because that's all very angular and jutting. My brain's just not doing it. It's not going there. It's just so many angles. I've got a wall up there. Okay, we'll move on from the, that way. I don't know. Yeah. And I'm going to remind you of this when we get to these characters in the books. Like, why do you want to ruin everything for me, Joanna? Because I thought we

started this because we were friends and we liked the same thing. No, I feel like you're just trying to slowly break me down psychologically. Is this like a really long-term revenge, something I didn't didn't realise? No, I just like it when you sigh. I don't know why, it fills me with joy. Yes, you've got a good sigh. I'm just making it happen. All right, all right. Shout out to Hailey, who I met down at the pub. Is that relevant? Yeah, no, because I brought up that I have this podcast and she subscribed and she was like, oh, I met Harry Pratchett and it turns out she was a production runner of the tele, the colour of magic film. Oh, wow. And brought Harry Pratchett and egg and crest sandwich. So I was a cool little anecdote. And that's how the world began. That's how the world

began. Oh, no. Yeah, that's so meta. It was all a bit odd. I want to point out that because I was slightly tipsy when I met Hailey, the note I made in my phone was shout out Hailey Xmas egg dress. Yeah. From that note in my phone, that that was what I needed to say. Xmas egg dress. Xmas thing. Well, I think dress was meant to be crest. Yeah, no, I know. I know. I know. I got that from the contacts. With me, it's never sure. I'm just writing down new band names. Well, thank you for everyone who has left us lovely reviews. Better than fax tape. Oh, my gosh. But I am trying to thank our listeners.

Yeah, well, you know, I don't like that. Thank you very much to people who have left us lovely reviews on iTunes. Yeah, no, that is quite nice, actually. We appreciate it. Yeah, we absolutely do. Yeah. And if we haven't reviewed it yet, then go do that. Give this episode five stars and listen to it. Do it in that order, please. That is safer. Well, I like how much faith you've got in this episode, Joe. I mean, like, I'm already on my second Mold wine. And there's an election. I gave you a big mug.

And there's an election on. I think myself a nice Mold apple juice with honey and things in it. Yeah. All right, your classy. I sound like I smoke 40 Lambert and Butler a day. Even there, that's no longer technically true. I don't smoke any Lambert and Butler per day. Officially, I don't expect. Right, should we talk about, should we make the actual podcast then? Yes, yeah. Yeah, let's do that.

Wicked. Okay. Onto the episode. Onto the episode. Here's your heading. I like that. I'm very excited about that. Okay. So, yeah, like we said. Do the bells. Do the bells. I brought bells for this specific purpose. The jingles make me tingle. Oh, God, for unseen.

And I'm bad for buns and buttoner eyes. I hate me. I just feel like if we're throwing accusations around, I didn't say I was getting tingly. I just said it was very angular and there was a lot of jutting. Does that not make you tingle? I mean, a bit more today because I just watched a really good episode of Buffy where spikes, cheekbones were, uh...

A particularly jussing. Affulgent. What? It's really funny if you listen to the buffering podcast. Affulgent. Is that a word? Yeah. What does it mean? Shiny, I think.

I should really check. Was he wearing highlighter? Of course he was wearing highlighter. I haven't watched Buffy since I learned how to do makeup properly, so... Oh, definitely wearing highlighter. Like his, but also his cheekbones are just ridiculous. I really don't want to miss use a fulgent on this podcast though, so I'm just going to double check.

Why not? Because... Like, we've got a pretty good friend going. It means shiny, gradient. How do you spell it? E-W-F-U-L-G-E-N-T. So, yeah, a little crossover. I like that.

I'm going to use that in conversation casually with Jack and then look at him weird when he doesn't know what it means. Yeah, thanks. Be able. Anyway, so, a fulgent episode. So, as we said, we are talking about the TV adaptation of The Color of Magic and Light Fantastic that Sky brought out in 2008. Yeah, and it was like, I thought it was a movie,

but it's two movie-length TV episodes, which is the worst of two worlds there. Oh, so yeah, I didn't really... Actually, no, that's not true. I'm just grumpy about it. I quite like that one. I'd rather they did that than they tried to cram, like, the events of both books into one film.

Yeah, I think you'd have definitely had to pick maybe half of the scenes. Yeah. Yeah. Rather than summarising the events of it, because I'm assuming people listening have a very least read the book, and it is... We will talk about the events that aren't like the book in detail with swearing.

I am going to read the IMDB summary for each of the two episodes. Before I forget, well, he's saying about cramming stuff in. I did watch the last bit of it on 1.5 speed. It was going on for so long, John. I warned you that it was three hours long. I know, but I only had the one night to watch it, because I thought we were going to be recording on Monday,

and then I got that gallstone. It's been a week. It's definitely been a week, and it's only Thursday. But anyway, it improved the pacing by my reckoning. Okay, we'll get on to that. First of all, I'm going to read the IMDB summary for episode one, which is The Color of Maddo. Based on Terry Pratchett's popular Discworld series of fantasy adventure novels,

naive tourist two-flower, Sean Astin, Lord of the Rings, is on holiday in Ang Moorpork. A fire breaks out, and he flees the city of an incompetent wizard named Rincewind, Sir David Jason. Winnegade with it. The pair sets out on a magical journey, and aware that the arch-chancellor of the unseen university is trying to track them down to recapture a powerful spell in Rincewind's head.

So these IMDB summaries... I would have said a powerful spell lodged in Rincewind's head, because otherwise... It sounds like he's tricking me down with a head. I mean, these IMDB summaries are neither accurate to the book or the TV episodes. Oh, good. Yeah, no, they're great. That's why I'm reading them out. And then, yeah, the summary for episode two, which is The Life Fantastic Adaptation.

Based on Terry Pratchett's popular Discworld series of fantasy adventure novels, naive tourist two-flower is on holiday in Ang Moorpork. A fire breaks out. I'm not reading that out again. The fire breaks out, and he flees the city of an incompetent wizard named Rincewind. The pair sets out on a magical journey, and aware that they are pawns in an elaborate game played by the gods, which they don't even put in the TV episodes.

All the stuff with the gods, isn't that? Is IMDB like a wiki thing? Oh, yeah, people can edit it. All right, I'm going in there to fix it later, then. Okay, no, IMDB is like... IMDB, fix. I don't even like it, and I'm annoyed that that's been so wrong. I know, it's great.

But anyway, so these adaptations are in some ways very, very direct and in some ways not... Did you watch the intro bit on the DVD with Terry Pratchett? I did, yeah, yeah, yeah, obviously. That was my favourite bit. Yeah, so on the DVD, there's a little chat with Terry Pratchett, and he does talk about the fact that when he wrote The Colour of Magic, he didn't really know what he was doing, so he was really heavily involved in these adaptations.

Because he didn't feel precious about them, like the other books, because he didn't feel as attached. So he let them change a bunch of stuff, and it made the narrative flow better. So they're not all bad. They're not, and most of what I'm going to say in criticism, I will say now, is my personal taste of what I like and don't like in movies and in comedy. And to be fair, mine is similar.

It's not that I feel that precious about the changes they've made, because I don't, like you can see, I didn't even complain that much in the chance you gave me without heading. I don't have any changes we didn't like. It's the, yeah, I mean, we'll get to it, but I just say, anyone who enjoys this, I don't want you to feel like I, like, even if you cared for some reason, like, I would judge anyone for liking this. It's just literally my taste, it's so far from this kind of TV.

Yeah, so whereas I enjoyed it, and I don't think it's a bad adaptation, I think the changes, the basic story changes. So the adaptation moves a lot of the business from, like, fantastic into the first episode. So from the beginning, we're seeing the stuff with the wizards and the stuff. Well, yeah, it takes out the gods thing. Yeah, with, but understandable, that would be difficult to do without being, like, surreal. I didn't mind it too much because it kind of fades away by the second book,

and so you wouldn't be able to carry it through the whole thing. Yeah, which in itself is quite, it's basically like a little artifact from the fact that Terry Bradshaw hadn't planned out the two books all in one go, because, like, that's a weird thing to have. Exactly. So yeah, should we actually talk, rather than me just trying to clarify? But yeah, so I don't think they're bad adaptations, and I get why you don't like them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I agree with you on a lot of points, but we're going to start with positivity. Yes, let's start with positivity, because I'm in a much better mood than I was earlier in the week.

It's good. Well, there we go. Thank God for that ghoul stone, hey? Excellent, that took away all your negative energy. The morphine helped. So things we actually liked about the adaptation. Mm-hmm. Well, why don't you start? Oh well. I am sorry about the fact that my voice sounds like this. All right, I like it.

I tried. I like the bagel fish device they use, because obviously in the books, so they get around, like, it works in the book, because nine times out of ten, two flaments when they're only talking to each other. Yes. So it makes sense. They're talking trope, but it's written in English. You can't do that. No, that would be weird and annoying. Yeah. So you have them talking trope to each other,

and then two flasks start speaking more porky, and he just admits, oh yeah, I speak it. I'm just using the phrase book, because that's what tourists do. Yeah. And I'm a tourist. Yeah, I think that was a nice, simple way around it, rather than trying to. From a filmmaking perspective, I really like it, because that's always the difficult thing in adaptation is, oh, not just in adaptation, but like in writing. Yeah.

For a medium that you can't put a bunch of footnotes and exclamation in. Yes. Finding ways around logic traps is fun. Yeah, and I do appreciate anything just done quickly and cleanly like that. But I can't remember which episode it was now, but I remember talking about anything being over-explained and being like, and this is why we're doing this, and this is like really just annoys me. So that was good. Yeah, I did appreciate that.

So yeah, like that. And I like the general streamlining, especially of color and magic. So the whole, so the character of Frunn is gone. Poor Frunn. Frunn gets taken out, the whole bell shammer off, but gets taken out. Yeah, I'll see. I thought that was a shame. I do and I don't.

They would not have been able to do it justice. Like visually, I just don't think they could manage the tentacled horror based on some of the other scenery. And they didn't really have the right atmosphere to do an unseen horror. Yeah. Like everything was a bit too. And that bit in the book drags. It really drags.

It does drag. All right, no fair enough. Yeah. I probably wouldn't have tried to do it either, but I was kind of hoping I would see it. Yeah. I'm sad that it means we lose a couple of my favorite hurran lines where you sort of talk about like you find choke apples under choke apple trees,

you find treasure under altars. And it's very matter of factness in the Wernberg bin. I just like, it's one of the only farcical bits I would have liked actually, the whole not saying eight. Yeah. Well, that was, that was a point I was, that was a change I didn't like is because that bit gets taken out. Oh, I didn't make it.

I didn't make a note of that at all. Oh yeah. Well, I mean, the streamlining cuts a lot of the dramatic tension. Yeah. Basically. So like because you lose that the number eight isn't significant. Yeah. The explanation of why it's significant isn't explained to the end of the first episode.

Yeah. Which kills a lot of the tension for the entire first episode. Yeah, I fit. Actually, I should have made a note of that. Like I feel like the tension in general wasn't there. Like what I was saying about getting the chills with the red star slowly. Is that like through the whole thing? I felt like that was gone.

Yeah. Well, no, we're doing positives though. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. But yeah, getting rid of the weird tree elves.

Yeah. That was a good, good, because there was no way that would have just been grossly over sexualized. Well, yes. A, that and B, like why was it there in the first place? Well, yeah, I didn't miss that. Literally because Pratchett was playing around in the world he was making, which excellent, but we didn't need to see on screen.

Yes. Yeah. Librarian. Oh yeah, I liked that they made Horace a librarian. I liked that. I thought that was nice. Yeah. Are we going to like do that when we get to the characters?

I didn't really have many notes about him for the characters. No. Okay, but that's it. Rafa is Richard DeCosta playing the orangutan version of Librarian. I liked making the human version, but I did think the orangutan version I didn't like. No, I didn't. They made him so creepy. Active.

That's not how orangutans move. They made him into the pantomime animal version. That's why they did through that. No, I'm trying not to be negative. Yeah, well, like this is the one positive, but then you can But anyway, he was called Horace in the Antion University. And according to the Discord companion and one other book I've forgotten, which rumor has it, the librarian was a Dr. Horace Warble hat, but nobody's quite sure.

Warble hat's a great name, isn't it? That's marvelous. Like that. Yeah, I like that they bothered to dig for the name or whether Pratchett told them or whatever. But I feel like some of that stands at Pratchett's involvement. And he does get, I mean, obviously you spotted his cameo. Yeah, because he disappointed that. I liked Pratchett cameos.

He made me happy because he has, so this was, this was something interesting about this though. It was made after the TV adaptation of The Hogfather. Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay, so I haven't seen that yet. Yeah. Well, we'll watch that. One hog's watch.

I also, I really like that they shifted some of the stuff from the beginning of the life fantastic to the end of part one. Which is, well, the whole change spell, but that was a nice climactic ending, wasn't it? So having that an ending on the image of the red star ruins when actually falling off the world and getting rid of the scruffy little bit. The scruffy little bit was really funny in the book. Yeah, no, it would be difficult to do.

It would be completely, yeah. It wouldn't have worked and it would have, I think, kind of ruined the what tension and cliffhangerness was building up. Actually, it's a good point. The thing, one thing you've mentioned you like a lot and I like as well is that the humor device that Pratchett uses is building up some dramatic description or event and then there's like a scruffy little bit or whatever. Actually, that is not something that will work on screen.

It doesn't. It works really well in writing because it's over and done with quickly. Yeah. Whereas the deadpan punchline being a five minute scene. Yeah. Means it's funny for like 30 seconds and then you still have to sit through for a half minutes of a scene. Yeah.

So yeah. So I'm glad they cut that and that we end on the change spell and the image of the red star because the change spell is a really impressive visual. Yeah, I feel the effects in the show were either amazing or really weirdly bad. Yeah. And it was very much like two teams were working on it or they ran out budget 80% of the way through or I feel like it's probably the latter. I don't know, obviously.

They were never so bad apart from the library and they were never so bad that it wasn't CGI. No, I know. That was a really good costume. Yeah, it was physical. What's it? And it was terrible. Yeah.

It was, it was just too animated. But anyway, apart from him, the effects didn't bother me. But yeah, changes we didn't like. They explained a couple of puns, which frankly I find unforgivable and that is my, I will not budge on this criticism. No, that's fine. That was the thing. I'm with you.

Do you have examples? Did you bring examples for the class? I did bring examples for the class. My God, these fucking notes. I did these like the day afterwards and they're just so grumpy. No, be grumpy. Be grumpy. Karina, go fuck yourselves.

Oh yeah, no, I think I went similar. This is edited. My meds have worn off. I can't deal with Kring. Amazing. Perfect. This is bullshit. Dine Tours was explained.

Oh yeah. The other one they explained. Reflected sound of undergrants. Oh no, Intua Rants. Next, they did, yeah. They did that the way it's done in the books, but he literally just said insurance. Yeah. Like some of that's down on, some of that's on Sean Astin.

Oh, The Circumference. Oh yeah, that doesn't need explaining. That was so weird. Yeah. Like The Circumference. Oh, do you mean The Circumference? No, The Circumference. Like Jesus, how stupid do you think your viewers are?

Certainly. But anyway, yeah, explaining puns is not okay. That is, I think what set me off into my longest weary rant during it. I made Jack watch it with me by the way. Oh great. Yeah. Cool. He doesn't even like Discworld, so.

Amazing. I had to stop and stop having opinions because they were all wrong. Anyway, but yeah, now I'm with you on explaining. I mean, I can barely forgive puns in the first place. Like I really like- Yeah, like a good pun. I like a good pun, but you know when you're hanging out with people and there's no one makes a pun and then it escalates into like they just stand there punning at each other on the topic.

I hate that so much. I really do. And it's because I can't think of puns, good puns quickly. Oh, I'm sorry. I do that. No. No, it's fine. It's fine.

I'll allow it. I'll allow it if it's you. But when they like just do it all the time, I think it's because I work with people who, I used to work with people who just everything. Yeah, no, that's a bit- And it's like, can you stop making cheeseburger buns and take this burger to table seven? Yes, no, when it becomes the sense of humour in a group, that's very annoying. Going on the occasional roof, I find quite amusing.

Yeah, the odd cheeky pun roof, fine. Especially if I can manage to join. And if they're challenging, I don't like going down the fucking same ones. You always go down like eggs. Everyone knows the egg ones. Oh, God, yeah. Cheese puns, cheese puns to be done. Yeah, not fun.

Anyway, so yeah, no, I'm really with you. But also partly because I hate puns. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, what I was saying about the cutting, the streamlining cutting dramatic tension. Yeah. Like, like I said, the number eight isn't really explained as significant until the end of the film. Either it's the concept of the colour of magic, which was like the colour was wrong, like it was really purple.

Sorry, would you have preferred it more greeny purple? Yes, it should have been a greenish purple. It's not a thing, Joe, that's the point. Yeah, but it's meant to be the eighth colour is I know it's very- And it's coming off a violet. I think they did the best they could. I think it could have had more green in it. It should have looked swampier.

It should have looked like dirty paint water. But then it wouldn't be magical, but with sparkles. Sparkly, dirty paint water. All right, like when I clean my highlighter brush, after I've cleaned away, I shut my brushes. That's what it should have looked like. Yeah, that's what it should have. That was a really nice image there.

Yeah, see, I should be a filmmaker. Someone give me a job. Based on that. I mean, I watch my makeup brushes, give me a job as a painter. So yeah, so it comes with the tension. As much as I'm glad the gods got caught, it does mean that for the entire first part, the only antagonist is Trimon, the capes-wirling secretary.

So yeah, as much as I'm glad they streamlined it, I wish they'd kept some of that. If they'd started introducing the red star a bit earlier, even, that would have given some tension or made Krull more threatening. Yeah. Because Krull is really quite threatening in the book, because, well, for the final section,

where they eventually end up at Krull, opens with an introduction to Krull that involves someone getting killed. If they... Did they have the whole what's his chaps, no hands, no eyes, no face, no... They didn't, did they? Yeah, there was no limbs removed but naked architect.

Yeah, shame. With his knob out. Yeah, if the... Like, I feel like when I point out flaws, I should look at how I would solve it. And if they just... They introduced Krull right at the beginning of part one. If they, when they introduced Krull,

introduced that they're into sacrificing and enslaving people, like that would have been enough to then have some tension throughout the book. Film, TV show, whatever. And whatever it was, who knows. Like, I get why the book has very little dramatic tension because they're four novellas, but build to it in some way.

I like, as much as I'm glad, like, braved and the wheeze that they've gotten, at least having... Yeah, well, again, it would have just been another unnecessary bit. All right, yeah. There was the sense of being in adaptation rather than it pushing the story for us.

Yeah, it was an exposition bit as well, wasn't it? Yeah, and the book, yeah. There were enough exposition bits in film. There's so much exposition. As you know, Glob. Pogloib. Of the Somerset Pogloibs. Pogloibs.

They're such a good... No relation. So yeah, no dramatic tension, Shane. Because, yeah, although obviously because of the lack of general planning. They didn't have the star-traumatic tension in the book. They could have done the TV show. It couldn't have been that so easy,

because, yeah, this is the other thing. Only the person who made it had bothered reading those halves before they came. Well, they obviously did, because a bunch of stuff in life fantastic is in the first part. All the wizard stuff. The whole thing with Tethys,

like, them taking... Because they took Tethys out, and that whole bit on the island at the end, you don't have the fear of slavery, which, like, Too Flower is so strongly passionate about in the book. Yes. And I've also got it,

because I wanted to see even Tethys when found that he didn't want to be enslaved, rather than... Yeah. Like, he decided not to drop over the edge in the end, but he thought about it. Yeah, I mean, I thought that bit was actually quite interesting,

and I liked some of it. But, yeah, taking that section out, again, it killed what could have been really good, dramatic build-up towards the end of it. Yeah, I understand them taking, like, the aeroplane bit out, but I don't see why they couldn't have had

two minutes of them, like, just having just escaped from a slave ship, even. Like, they fucking over-explained everything else. Exactly. Or having them, like, meeting someone who's telling them

they're going to be enslaved, because the whole conversation where they find out they're going to be slaves is they show up at Croll, and there's this character called the Marchester who says, Yeah, you're going to be slaves. Yeah.

Great. The shout-out, the Marchester is played by Noma. I'm really sorry. I'm probably going to risk pronouncing this. I want to say two words, Ni. Okay. Who played Hermione in the original cast

of Harry Potter and the Cursed Child. That's sweet. Yes. And she's a good fellow on Twitter. She's very interesting. When was the original production? A few years back. Say, four years?

Three years. It's not been that long. Yeah. How old is Hermione in the Cursed Child? She's not old. Okay. I was like, did I seriously misguess this person's age? No, no, no, no.

So Harry Potter and the Cursed Child, they're all adults. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Well, that makes sense. They're children. Because it's after the epilogue and the books. That's it.

Yeah. No, got it. Yeah. Okay. Cool. That's a brief Harry Potter diversion. There'll be a few like, because this was made in England,

so all the actors have also been in like, everything else. They were throwing a stock to Hermione and Harry Potter. This is the star rights. Yeah, yeah, the star rights. Yeah, yeah. This is appropriate to an election day. But they got shifted to like,

the beginning of part two. Yeah, beginning of part two, the star rights start, and the stars in the sky, and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, when is it in the book? It's like third act. It's once they kind of getting back to a city.

Yeah. They then travel from there to at Morpox. So that whole going to another city first and traveling via magic shop doesn't happen. Yeah. Which I feel strongly about as well, actually. Yeah. Well, and so they skip the magic shop.

They skip even the conversation about it. So they skip Two Flower, getting the origin of his like, the origin story of the luggage. Oh, actually circling back very slightly. Because they missed out the slave a bit. Yeah. They also missed out six months

that Rince Wind and Two Flower had spent together. Yeah. Just to know, like, I feel like that was quite a big part of the fact they then were closer by this point in the book. Is this in literally traveled for six months together? Yeah. In the books, like, effectively the whole thing takes place

over, I know, a few weeks to a month, maybe. In the film, you mean? In the film, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I can actually kind of see that working in Rince Wind and Two Flower's favor. Like, as far as the relationship goes. And I have a lot of thought about their relationship. Yeah, me too.

But do your magic shop boot first because that's something close to your heart? Oh, no. It's only that I'm not pissed off because I want to see the magic shop. But I mean, I kind of did. And they didn't acknowledge the trope at all, which I like because I like the trope.

I just write a harmonica about it, which will hopefully happen live. That's the point next year. Because the luggage isn't given an orange in story and this is a fault of adaptations, where they assume knowledge of the source material. He did mention Sapient Powered at the beginning. He mentions that it's made out of something called Sapient Powered, but there's no acknowledgement of how Two Flower has acquired this trunk.

Right. And it's a little detail, but like... I'm going to slightly disagree with that one because in the later books, I feel like this origin story was almost retconned out because it was. Because they these luggages are running around everywhere in interesting times. And like, so he wouldn't have needed to get it from a weird magic shop. That is true.

But just watching this from a film perspective. Oh, yeah, it would have been better in there than in the book even. Well, exactly. Yeah, okay. No, that's not true. So I'm thinking about watching this as a film, having never read the books. I would be annoyed that they never explained where that came from. And that's what I mean.

All right, I get that. As a fault of an adaptation, it assumes that you have that familiarity... Familiarity. Familiarity with you. Familiarity with the source material. The Roros material. The Roros material. It's your star sign.

I'm a Roros material. Familiar Roros, you're right. You're not giving me the hiccups. Chaotic future. Well, did you send me about Chaotic Future the other week that you found the writing one? Writing D&D alignments. Should I find it? Yeah, yeah, I like that a lot.

Obviously, I did not make this because I'm not clever enough. And I don't really understand D&D alignments having still never played D&D. I think the D&D alignments like meme format has moved a long way from D&D. Sorry, I'm trying to find a lot of messages where I just make fun of local political candidates. So I've been going to read the Chaotic ones because I relate to them. Chaotic good, writes in verse of thousand words, has at least three unused notebooks, never knows the time.

Chaotic neutral, almost submits to writing contest but doesn't. Finishes a novel in a month but takes two years and a short story, uses Twitter to procrastinate. Chaotic evil, hasn't slept in 24 hours, writes on phone at stop lights, writes at dinner table with family, writes on the phone while showering. So very much Chaotic neutral. Mine hasn't got me a waterproof notebook. Yeah, I don't really get ideas in the shower. Most of the ideas I have in the shower are about ingrown hairs.

I think I'm too busy like completely being obsessed with my own appearance and how hot I feel I don't do or don't know that day to really think about writing my days. Like my naked body's there, why would I think about dragons? In the context of naked body? Yeah, like sometimes I think about like tatties I want. But that's not writing, that's asking someone else to make a pretty picture. In the bath I'm listening to- There's water in general I think it's quite conducive to.

I don't see in the bath I will like be listening to a podcast and reading a book. Wow. Peaceful. Well that's been I am. Or watching TV and reading a book. I need at least two inputs of noise, light and sound at all times to function. Truly a child of the digital age. It's so bad.

Like if I'm writing I have to have the TV on in the background. Like even a podcast isn't enough because it's not visual. Do you have any idea how difficult I find it writing the show notes for this because I have to listen to it and not be doing five other things at the same time? I mean like- I've had that a bit because yeah because like I as I've said before I find it very difficult to not be listening to something because otherwise I'm left alone with the noise in my head which I find intolerable.

Oh god yeah no I'm not. But the visual thing for me if I'm like just watching Kelly I'll be on my phone at the same time because that's how I've ruined my brain over the course of several years but I can't I can't write and watch Kelly. Oh I have to have like the TV on in the background. I can't write and listen to a podcast because I need A. I need like a visual and B. Podcast requires more concentration because there is no visual.

Yes. But I have the TV on all the time in the background while I'm writing. I do have to be careful to not cross my genres. If I'm writing like something a bit of fantasy I can't be watching something a bit of fantasy. Oh okay. If I'm writing comedy I can't watch something that is meant to be comedy. Interesting. I can watch it for the same reason that you can't like read

the Neil Gaiman when you're meant to be rewriting fairy tales or something. Yeah exactly. Because like my whole Valkyrie monologue I had just read the Neil Gaiman Norse mythology so I then wrote the draft of the Valkyrie monologue which is like a posh valkyrie who's doing a party got spoiled by Ragnarok. It was very good. It rained. It did.

In real life. Then it was performed. Yeah. That might be getting restaged late next year by Helen who was the Crane. Yeah yeah yeah like uh. Oh show me a kid amazing Valkyrie. Not that Nemony wasn't great but.

Nemony was great. Helen is just like. It might not rain this time. Well it will be indoors this time. Good. That's a good idea. Yeah but yeah so the first draft of that I had to completely rewrite not because it's bad but because I had written a Neil Gaiman story.

It was like hot. Ditto like accidental sasiness was written off the back of Good Omens we read and it was like oh I'm going to take out all of Terry Bridges jokes. Yeah. I can leave it a couple of like references because some people watching will be like oh that's a Good Omens reference but I cannot just word for word rip bits of Good Omens. Yeah I write quite a detailed diary for the first 100 days of being medicated for ADHD partly for my benefit partly because I thought it might be useful

to others but I realized I was on kind of a Stephen Fry binge at the time and I just read his or one of his autobiographies and I was watching Fry and Laurie on the telly and reading back the first few entries now I was like wow that is very Stephen Fry and not at all how I usually write and I think it was like off the back of me being really fucking overexcited about like finally feeling better and everything as well and so I was just being really verbose and not editing it down to these like you know I was trying to write news. I try I do tend towards the overlever base by trying to cut it down and I did not after reading Stephen Fry.

Talking about the 20-minute tangent we've been on we both have this problem slightly. So my like all my last points about changes we didn't like kind of go together so yeah introducing the star riots and what they did with the star riots. Yeah again they lost the kind of sinister. They made them funny and they made it like a whole look at these people they're being hysterical whereas I feel like in the book Terry Pratchett's like look at these people being people. Yeah this is a horrible situation and then there were a couple of jokes in that but it was kind of making a joke in a horrible situation.

Yeah but also in the book it was it felt a lot more like Terry Pratchett was saying people can flip to this so easily like this happens whereas in the film it was like look at these silly people with nonspecific real relaxants getting angry about things. It yeah it made it a comedy moment and and because it brought it forward so early it never really had the impact like trying to get through the star riot people to the unseen university at the end did not feel like it was important or a tension point. So there was that and the whole culty feeling of it not really being there. Yeah it was like look at the silly villagers and the fact that they all had silly accents.

Yeah but it was just you know it's the feel of the whole thing if they'd put in that bit and been serious and done it well it would have been weird in congress with the feel of the rest of the thing because they left out all of the serious bits. I feel like that could have still fit or I feel like that could have fit better. I think part of what annoyed me is I don't like the rural accent as shorthand for stupid commoner that comes up in film a lot because I know it contributes to like genuine printed issues where people sort of hear a Yorkshire accent and think like well you must be an idiot. Yeah and part of that is like learning to unlearn that own prejudice myself.

Yeah um um but then again they were out in the country were they out in the country side and I don't know it was a city wasn't it yeah they should have said that. It was at Melbourne but that being said a lot of the extras and people were like online were Discworld fans. Oh really yeah like they put out casting stuff on like Discworld forums and a bunch of fans got to be extras in the lot of the big crowd scenes. Oh that's nice though. So that was pretty cool I do like that. So I now feel a bit bad mocking the accent in case it's just like. But it felt choicey it felt like a choice yeah um and yeah skipping the magic shop again it was

fine but that's a fault of adaptations where they assume people either won't care about a piece of information or will have read the source material and already know it. And Two-Flower the whole Two-Flower and Rinsewind relationship. Yeah I've got nothing on that. Yeah all you were saying about like that six months isn't there where they're sort of lost at sea together hmm means their relationship doesn't regress naturally yeah so instead some bad yeah that's fine. So some of the changes that happen are obviously changes where Terry Pratchett's either like I don't mind doing it like or actually change it like this because

I didn't think about this when I was writing it yeah but you can tell there are also some change like that's one of the types of changes like cutting front yeah or Belchamberos or truncating the Wamburg like all of that kind of makes sense some of the changes feel like an exec somewhere going hey we need to care about this so do this. My note on that was Two-Flower all the trade boo who that bit exactly yeah um what the hell the whole oh you lied to me you rar and like you're just trying to put in some late-stage drama because you forgot to put in any actual narrative tension and you cut all the bits from the book that would provide narrative tension about from Tim Curry doing an evil laugh which is great not in the book that's all what Trimon

would do. Yeah Tim Curry does a very nice evil laugh I just wish you'd not done it in this but yeah uh I it's false tension and it's false conflict and it's the same reason I don't like cringe humor cringe comedy or even cringe drama where the entire point of tension or conflict is based on a lack of communication yeah because I just scream at the tv like but just fucking text them yeah like literally just tell them this one piece of information and none of this would have happened this whole film could have been done two hours ago and I could have had a cup of tea by now yeah uh so yeah also on this note the fucking hug bit at the end

I have the overly obvious oh no I don't do hugs twice during a film and then obviously they left it with a hug because go fuck yourselves that's why oh right but this is so they spend this whole film building this relationship and crossing my arms and a huff now they're trying to make a buddy movie and unlikely people becoming friends yeah and building this relationship between them so by the time Two Flower feels betrayed Rinswin would feel guilty about betraying him or whatever yeah which he wouldn't like yeah that's huge mischaracterization we're going to the characters bit but right at the end they have this whole oh I don't hug oh we'll hug then while Two Flower is leaving on the ship Rinswin has already fucked off and Cohen and Bethany just stick their waving

at the ship yeah which is more in character for Rinswin yeah exactly especially the Rinswin they put in this yeah but that's because they wanted to do the Rinswin in luggage bit and they kind of went okay so Two Flower gets on the ship Rinswin luggage bit which means Rinswin has to walk away fuck we forgot to do anything with Cohen and Bethany so I guess well they'll just stand there and wave while Two Flower fucks off and it's like Rinswin would have stayed and waved especially if they were going to he'd have probably gone for a pint with them afterwards they've just got married like yeah he's only walking off by himself so they can do the luggage bit oh right yeah no I mean I don't know I'm not sure he would have stayed there unless Two Flower

and unless Bethany and Cohen were there if that makes sense oh yeah I'm not sure he'd waved him off into the sunset you know maybe just to make the rid go why would he just wave from Cohen and Bethany without saying goodbye yeah and doesn't make sense for those characters to wave Two Flower off and talking about the Rinswin in this book Rinswin book Rinswin like fucking loves this guy now and would have stayed to wave him off yeah yeah because why put in the bit where he's disappointed that he's leaving us you know he don't care again yeah you're gonna stop caring because you're I didn't even notice he didn't wave him off to be honest for that because they over everything because he wandered off with the luggage it was I noticed it because I know

it was Cohen and Bethan stood there waving him off yeah and that's obviously we forgot to remove the actors so now they have to stand here and wave a Two Flower like we forgot to write an exit for them what's the exit in the books they just kind of go off yeah they say goodbye when did they say goodbye at the dock still yeah but they don't stand there and wave him off yeah they say thanks and they bugger off to founder kingdom then Rinswin and Two Flower have the chat where Two Flower gives Rinswin the luggage which is what they should have done in this yeah so no one should have waved him off yeah sorry Two Flower but like you're a big boy yeah you can leave without being waved off yeah um speaking to someone who has never left dramatically on a ship with someone

wed me off I'm sure by the way not through lack of trying no I mean at some point I would like you to wave dramatically to me for I'm sure while I leave on a ship but okay yeah that's fine I'll do that I felt like getting where are you going I don't know I mean there's no ports anywhere near here how far do you want me to go can we do it in like the broads we could I mean get on the barge and I'll wave you off do you want to like go down south I'll get on a ferry to jessie and then you can go to an airport and get a plane to jessie and then we'll meet up in jessie logistics but yeah it's fine um also yeah we can do that I mean along those lines like along those specific lines one of my first notes was god doesn't english water look shit it's when Two Flower was arriving on

the boat like and I know I'm all for water like shit as well but it's just like it just brought me back to watching the rosy gym on their canal in the kids tv show like oh the grim realities of English water is so great there is nice fresh water around and I mean it's not ready we don't have gorgeous clear oceans and beaches and water anywhere really no no I don't there are lovely bits of things and lovely riversides and everything but it's just canals specifically yeah especially if it's not sunny always looks like that and it's no fault of the the movie or uh anything like that it's just it's just what it looks like and it's terrible and it brought me back to being a kid watching terrible kids tv oh rosy engine love rosy engine

rosy engine don't say anything did you watch tv as well with the french one mm-hmm yeah anyway what did you say something about uh la sac magique sac magique so we thought you had too much laugh at the volume but now it's that ah oh wait no I've got the husky voice la sac magique

fine we've got to stop doing that on the podcast so yeah the whole two of our friends went like they didn't need that many emotions between them the book is funny because they never expressed that much emotion I'm putting in the whole wah third act I've been betrayed to throw in some false tension while they're in a troll's mouth yeah which by the way weird handling of that whole bit very weird handling of that whole bit as you know Bob so much as you know Bob I do it at of the bits they cut to streamline I wish they kept rinse wind onion hunting and the patrols yeah like effects I seen was the I would assume partially effects and and some of it was trying to get the action back to it

which I get but I wish they hadn't um but there's all the changes I really didn't like I think okay I've got okay I'm deciding when to do my general complaints and I think probably general talking points is there for that yeah my general complaints because I have more complaints there was just like changes specifically that I didn't like yeah just having a look and bum bum bum oh the octavo isn't badgered or foxed or foxed not even raveted it looked very like I don't know it was really silly yeah like it was very Jim Henson which like I'm into laughter man's henson studio like studios the puppeteers sass me street the muppets oh yes yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

I don't know what the hell you're sorry I've been around for quite a while Francine the muppets are quite well made yeah well I don't I don't know if you've had who knows who made the fucking muppets whatever who knows the henson company made the market muppets do they do they though I genuinely think that's quite I think your scope of general knowledge might be different to a lot of peoples mine involves more puppets yeah yeah yeah and more things I didn't like um why does Jeremy Irons suddenly have a speech impediment I've got here I didn't realize it was Jeremy Irons um because of the speech impediment because I'm really bad at recognizing famous people but I genuinely did not notice that was Jeremy Irons they've taken out just a lot of the dry

patchity humor like um like just the absurdist stuff that was subtle like the good tarot cards or carock cards whatever we were calling them yeah like they're doing the washing up whatever they just went rrrrrr yes yeah I feel like it's it's unfair but commonly said like oh it's simplified for American audiences so I'm not gonna say it's simplified for American audiences I think it's simplified for audiences yes because filmmakers often assume people are stupider than they are yes I think there's more freedom in books to use that kind of humor but I feel like being made in 2008 is a sky adaptation and so we're talking this is made 11 years ago yeah she's not really that long on the grand scheme of things no it's not not when we're

talking about geologically son yeah I was 16 and like this wasn't huge budget this wasn't tiny budget no I do think um sorry um yeah so characters casting yeah so Rinswind as David David Jason as Rinswind that was a choice do you want to do your bit first before I go off on one yeah so A I want to clarify that the hogfather adaptation was made first and David Jason was in that and he basically said he had always wanted to play Rinswind yes so while I dislike it as casting it was nice that it was genuinely something he cared about and wanted and yet not enough to research the fucking character apparently well or at least trying to get a decent I feel like it's this research and more he wanted to play it and he thought of himself as an age he appearance wise very much

wasn't because David Jason well no it partly is because Rinswind is quite young in the books he's younger than two flat yeah okay yeah fair enough but I could have forgiven that if it wasn't so badly played it is he well I think some of that's the writing I mean the whole fucking weird suicide bit yeah I got that oh and he's suicidal at the beginning just casually fuck off that's like the opposite of his character motivation yeah like the whole point of Rinswind is that he doesn't want to die yeah he keeps almost dying but he consistently does not die yeah and apparently he's suicidal enough to step into a dock but then because he steps on the bio we've forgotten about that and he's not depressed anymore yeah like that is I feel like that is a portrayal of

casual suicide there yeah I feel like that is a portrayal of suicide that would not happen now like 11 years being a short time but and he's also kind of a lifetime in things that aren't casually doped about anymore I guess yeah so yeah so I hated that bit and I you could have made him older and it could have worked but it didn't work and they make him and I'm not saying that being not thin means that you're lazy but he has written a super scrawny in the books yeah and there is this implication of laziness that I think partly comes to do with the fact he has played by a not scrawny actor yeah which again is I know it's only 11 years ago but of its time and the fact it's still used at shorthand for

lazy in tv so much now which bits are you thinking of when he's portrayed as lazy oh he's just he's constantly out of breath whenever they're adventuring anywhere and he's always like oh where is in the book it's oh do we have to because oh something is going to kill us yeah he's older we have to because I'm tired and I want to sit down and have a bit more in the film yeah I think that's partly that and partly ties into my main complaint my overarching complaint about the whole thing which is this particular kind of British low-grade pantomimey hammy comedy yeah that makes my fucking amusement gland shrivel up they make him stupid they made me mr bean oh right from the beginning oh he stumbles up and he's all late and out of breath to whatever the fuck's

going on who can remember because it was very boring and there was just um some random fit wizard in there by the way remember fig went everything what what you want about what do you know oh okay there's a fig with his shorthand for is one of the flight of the concourse guys was an extra in lord of the rings during fellowship with the ring in one of the Rivendell scenes and he went like viral big with the term fig wit which stood for like Frodo is great who is that because he is really hot in the background and then like and then he went on to be one of the flight of the concourse guys he was obviously an extra because it was like New Zealand this is all filmed but he was first famous on the internet as fig wit and so again we again we inhabited

different parts of the internet 10 years ago i only know this because we did it because we were doing postmodernism in media studies so we did flight of the we did a unit on flight of the concourse and i bear in mind i was 16 17 i didn't know about it my media studies teacher who admittedly was also from New Zealand yeah was very aware of the fig wit thing and had us all research it this happened before i really lived on the internet because fellowship of the rings came out when i was like when we went outside how old was i when fellowship of the rings came out oh you would have been young young young eight or nine i think yeah because it came out around the same time as the harry potter movie and parts caribbean yeah i can remember that being like the

three things that everyone had crashes on all ando bloom for some reason even though they go more times than was way hotter in the love of the rings films which one oh arogo yeah yeah i agree like would definitely get it anyway so hot wizard in the background while rince rindabra sorry right yeah anyway yeah so sorry we have to put thirst traps in my overarching hatred of this kind of comedy and it's so difficult to explain especially to people who don't have the long experience of watching this shit on british telly is that everything is overdone in a low grade way so like the background music is just overly dramatic but not very good and everyone's expressions are overdone and their eyes are rolling into their head whenever anyone does anything and there's no question

about what you should be feeling at any moment they are telling you with their eye rolls and gurning and like fucking david jason playing rince what david jason is not a very good actor i'm sorry no like rincewood has these unique qualities and although he is a simple character and some of his like the appeal is that he's quite two-dimensional um he does he does yeah he's not stupid and his his motivations might be simple but they're not the generic stupid protagonist ones that they've kind of yeah he doesn't want power he doesn't want like the things of stupid protagonists were one i think the whole summary of how much they messed with rince rind's character is that the end of part one it is rince wind's idea to put the fucking cellar

nought suits on yeah no terrible idea yeah like and it's kind of that whole clever little thing of almost breaking not quite breaking the fourth wall but just being very meta if i put this in this is what happens next in this kind of story yeah it's just turned into that yeah like they've just done the thing yeah and and like yeah they've just fucking david fucking jason man he's just this such old old-fashioned outdated kind of the only protagonist it is that era of like i don't want to hit it i don't want to sit here on a on a podcast and say i hate only fools and horses but i do uh i've tried to i'm gonna sit here on this podcast and say i hate everyone it's a british institution that i can't stand i don't get the appeal i've never i thought it was funny when i

was like seven yeah like when i was a little kid yeah and someone always have a bit of a soft spot for the theme tune but like last uh oh actually okay yeah last episode that came out before we recorded this i talked about talking being overrated now i'm gonna say that only fools and horses overrated yeah and also god i hate mr bean like that's nothing to do with this i just i really hate mr bean i and that i hated as a child like we'd be forced to watch that as kids and i would like cry and cry and cry until i was allowed to leave the room i hated it so much all of the cringe and falling and of course if you do that with the bath the room will be full of bubble bath and everyone go exactly and like there will be grubby villains in everything and this as well

everything has an overtone of mr bean to be honest and panto and panto i got it hate panto i had to wait what i hate panto oh my god oh he knows okay like he knows and i've still sat through a couple from i was in one yeah that's what i thought yeah okay that was just you know i wanted the acting work and it was there and god it was awful yeah like the biggest laugh we got was the fact that the dame was a fat ginger dude with a bit in a coconut bra like that was the funniest thing about it and like it was fairly funny i don't know i mean a coconut bra yeah all right fine it was but god it was faithful because we did panto but we didn't do the principle boy thing so i had to play girl as a young woman poly yeah i don't want to be poly i wanted to be robins and gruse

but god the whole thing was awful and the only thing worse than panto is panto with stupid actors that don't get panto yeah and i was working with a couple of actors that did not get this is funny because you say it like this like just fucking do it the audience leaves out i had a director who thought that singing a really weird version of the banana boat song would be a good ending it wasn't yeah sorry sorry that's really mean no no it was deo deo robinson home from the isle of white bear in mind the whole cast was white like singing in a bad Jamaican accent to the tune of the banana boat song robinson home from the isle of white yeah that is you know how much i got paid for that it was like a three night run no i got 20 quid oh my god that's

so bad yeah and all the chocolate coins i could throw at children that was the only good bit is i got to throw a chocolate coin at the ex mayor did you concuss him no it was a very small chocolate coin this is so off topic again but anyway not really though it isn't because it's panto bullshit and it's david jason with this this it's not even slapstick it's not good enough to good slapstick is good oh yeah this kind of high voiced gurning incompetence and at the same time when two flower does or says anything david jason then suddenly snaps into this dry eye roll character it's like two completely separate badly acted characters rolled into one are we tuts as well he tuts when he rolls his eyes yeah i fucking hate it i hate it so much dough i was so cross anyway sorry no i'm

with you it doesn't work it doesn't work as casting which brings me on to my next point which is trimon trimon casting that was great i think so so in the books trimon is we talked when we were talking about the life fantastic about the fact that trimon is so so evil and terrifying because he is so blank and so gray and he is motivated by nothing but order he is not motivated by power he only wants power so he can bring more order which makes him a terrifying villain now i get you want to make the villain less terrifying this came out around christmas time it was like a family film to watch on telly but but you didn't need to go this far to the other way because what the fuck is this motivation now they make and i mean about this endlessly on the podcast when

we were talking about the life fantastic that in this they make trimon a cape swelling villain in tim curry but why also not only that but they've left some weird little artifacts from his original motivation because he keeps saying about wanting order three times three times he made random comments about things being organized but it's bullshit because they haven't given him that personality so why did they even include it yeah it's like they're trying to keep that as his motivation but really his motivations used to be some weird combination of power and knowledge and it never explains why he wants power like villains are interesting from he's the wizard okay yeah so all the wizards want power to a certain extent and they do the sort of

dead men's put curly shoes bit kind of well i like that they do the literal visual of him killing a wizard and stepping into his shoes yeah no that was all right but he is meant to be motivated by order they kept like three lines in where he would talk about the wanting the world to be organized and they gave him this kind of weird camp secretary personality yeah but for a large chunk of it it's like well he seems to just want power yeah and the gunning again oh the gunning i mean it's like the bit where he's actually angry and doing this with his face i mean again it's tim curry so i would expect that if he's playing villain like that's what he does and it's kind of a hate him i kind of like it because it's him but i hate it in this yeah yeah um but yeah i

hate that in general but it's bad writing him a villain like so in the lion king scar wants power scar wants power because he was treated like crap by their parents where his brother has all the power scar wants power because scar is jealous yes that is a clear motivation i mean his motivation isn't just wanting power he's he wants power because he is jealous of his brother like that's a huge implication of the themes of the 90s disney animated classic which was based off hamlet yeah yeah where dude wants power claudius sorry that's him a second claudius wants power is jealous of his brother kills his brother gets power he'd have sounded much more hybrid started but that's an example instead of scar my main point is i don't want to bang tim curry in this because i don't know

why he wants power yeah um i don't even care about that honestly because he just annoyed me so much the fucking gunning i hate it is it's an extension of the phantom i'm saying that mm-hmm yeah no it was annoying like you're an actor use your face in a normal way but it's kind of what he does and it's fun like he's got such an expressive face and he he does that overacting thing and it's why he gets cast in certain roles it's why he was i know that's why i've never seen him in anything apart from rocky horror because i hate those kind of films wait have you seen clue though no okay see clue is does that in a fun way like it's a camp city film but it's not panto it's just dramatic it's very self aware like it's aware that it's dramatic because it sounds

right it's aware that it's a murder it's a yeah it's tim curry it's it's based on the board game yeah um but it has like yeah well in america the the board game was clued but it has like 15 different endings yeah i always got a different ending for if each of them did it with a different thing i would say like if you get the dvd can you watch it oh all of the innings are on there yeah i think they i think they were like different cinema releases had different ones or something oh that's quite fun like the like that famous play that had different endings what mouse travel mouse mouse something else oh i don't know all right now i'll get back to you on that okay okay see us so that's like the longest running play okay i i shouldn't know this this seems to be a massive

gap in my knowledge we can we can do all this one next to a break um anyway yeah yeah i hate it and now i understand why i've never seen tim curry anything but rocky hara it's because he's in the kind of shows i fucking hate yeah i mean that's kind of fair yeah sorry sorry god i mean negative although there is that other thing i suggested you watch that he is comparatively subdued in which is uh oh god what's it called is this really funny it's like a live recording of a radio play that you can watch on netflix and it's like eric idol tim curry russle brand uh what's the name who was big sues in peep show yeah uh it's an amazing cast it's whatever happened to something and it's so silly like i said it's but they're doing like physical comedy on stage as well as it

being the recording of a radio play and others going to drive me mad but i can't remember what it's called because i can i can never remember the name of it until i get drunk and watch it like i have to get drunk and go i want the piano film on the thing when they say piano and then and the posh lady goes pia pia piano piano it's a musical um sorry i'm yeah so i'm really specific about my stupid comedy because obviously i'm enjoying monty python um i quite like uh i like surrealist stuff i want stupid comedy to know that it's stupid comedy yeah i like surrealist stuff i don't like obvious stuff where it thinks it's being clever in some way i don't like panto and yeah i should have such a fucking grumpy no no i'm what about dick that's

what it's called hi he's got milly connelly in it and tracy oldman i like all these people yeah no what's that you'll love that about dick but netflix that's gonna make sense netflix um what about dick netflix yeah that's not gonna confuse me in a month okay no i'm with you on it because like i'm very i love silly comedy that knows it is being silly so like clue is great because it's very self-aware that it is a silly amount of mystery monty python is great because you can see them all on the verge of cracking up uh well i like him all because it's unexpected stuff and do not oh yeah this is maybe a better summary but it's the kind of english humor that this film is and the kind that i hate in general is we all know exactly what's going

to happen next yeah because it's and somehow that's funny to some people the formulaic like i'm with you and like and too fast sticking his fingers up in the bar and the fucking like if i can guess every other line go fuck yourselves like jesus do a better job writing a lot of the lines are the right from the boat so well yeah i know but like the ones that aren't i could guess better than the ones that are yeah well okay let's talk about two flat uh because like shore nustin i thought was interesting casting so shore nustin was i thought he did all right actually that's one of my few positive bullet points no the reason i found this interesting um but i did love him the way he did the lists i thought was really funny yeah like i just enjoyed genuinely enjoyed that the

reason i thought this was interesting so we talked way back when we were talking about color magic about the fact that it wasn't really a discord allegory for america um so someone who listens to the podcast that is uh someone i sort of know pointed out that he thought where two flower was from was say this person has not read interesting times but has read color magical life fantastic and i'm pretty sure has seen this he thought two flower was meant to be from an allegory of america and he was written as an american tourist yeah and the way he's portrayed in this tv adaptation is very much an american tourist yeah there is also and especially there was very much when color magic was written this stereotype of the asian tourist and then if you look at

and i guess mild spoiler but when we get to interesting times we find out the area that two flowers from is like a parallel of china very specific part of china's history i kind of get that what happened with shone astin is a lot of the reader and there was controversy with the casting a lot of the readers were like but is he's meant to be an asian tourist he's meant to be like one of those funny asian tourists we see in trafalgar square yeah and i think he was kind of written as a racial stereotype that i didn't pick up on because it's not like common in comedy now and because i thought of him as american i'd seen this but i think that was very much a choice to cast him and make him more american than he was written

do you think he was meant in the color magic then do you think he was meant to be american no i think he was meant to be an asian no i thought he was meant to be american for sure i thought that was like a retcon thing i can't see anything that would suggest him being an asian stereotype in his works i'm going very much from the stereotype of asian tourist yeah but it's the same as the stereotype of american tourist true but i a lot of people read it as that asian tourist stereotype more than american tourist stereotype so i'm not saying i really pitched it either way because i don't remember my early readings and all of all of my readings of this apart from my first one happened after i saw this so i thought of him as american yeah but i would say the fact that there

was some controversy about casting shawnastin means that somewhere a choice might have been made and he may have been written as something of this because well to be fair there is controversy about fucking everything when anything comes out of magic but also it's the if there is one someone will make one okay so i might be completely wrong on this let's look this up in a bit and come back to it that's that'll be an interesting bit of that was that was based on the the reading i did in the background around the casting is that shawnastin's casting was vaguely controversial because people expected it to be an asian tourist i feel like that would have been a lot more controversial if it had been oh yeah but it was what i mean i don't want to be mean about people

who read terry pratchett on a terry pratchett podcast yeah i know it probably does not no i've just known some people to feel very anything that changes from their imagination they will call pc game mad oh yeah but i mean that's just fucking everybody isn't it oh that's everybody about everything literally every fandom there is a group of people who will make a controversy of nothing and there is a group of people who will ignore straight up bad things that could actually change them see well i thought it was interesting and obviously i would consider myself on the right side of it but i thought it was interesting especially as someone like pointed out to me that he thought of the egetian empire as being the allegory for america but hadn't

read the book sat there or anything so yeah so i thought i thought that was an interesting way to look at it because i hadn't really thought about it actually that's a good point of fact he was from the egetian empire with that round nation stereotypes in it okay no you're probably right yeah the fact that the egetian empire is like literally based on china yeah even in that early book i forgot about those references yeah yeah okay you're right because that they have the grand vizier um so that whole that whole thing yeah so uh all right i take it back you're right let's just meet i'm still gonna look it up in the same case but yes and that was that was what i thought was interesting about casting shaw nastin there's two flowers but i do like him because i have a

huge soft spot for shaw nastin mostly because he was sam wise gamj who's the best character in the rings mostly because he loves potatoes next bit of good casting is christivally as death yeah very good agreed perfect because he'd already voiced death in the soul music cartoon and i think i think weird sisters but that might have been like a tiny cameo yeah if anybody can do a voice like crashing tombstones or crash a coffin door than it is christivally he is he is perfect and i like that they didn't death's like a little bit vindictive in this because they needed to have some yeah antagonism around and some conflict around but he's not as vindictive as he is in the first bit no like he's closer oh this is what i meant as the other um amalgamation character i wrote down

a fetanari and someone else i couldn't remember who and it was death yeah they're kind of a mixture of their original and later incarnations it doesn't look like i really liked the death's house bit i thought the the visual with the black and white and the muted sepia tones of the people was really good yeah i know they did a nice color i'm annoyed they cut isabel yeah for feminism reasons yeah not surprised but yeah i'll get to that uh but yeah the visuals are amazing but yeah so you talked about the patrician and didn't know it was jeremy irons because i'm so bad at spotting actors and because i mostly recognize jeremy irons for a voice rather yes yeah and he had the voice but so they don't name him but all of his mannerisms including the tiny little dock he's holding

is very much taken from yeah he's got an ari who's the patrician in the later berks yeah and his appearance because the one in yeah because originally in color magic he's described just grossly fat which yeah i'm glad they didn't do another opportunity to play large people up for comedy uh but they don't know because not being funny like would that not have just been a this is a fat person in this role i mean yes and no i from the rest of the pantoish tone of the film all right yeah no fair enough yeah he wouldn't have done it well i i'm glad they made it more of a veterinary angular jutting and i like that they use the don't let me detain you yeah that was nice yeah because that was but i don't understand why they're getting the wage speech impediment where

i can't use double use properly uh because they're terrible i think it was meant to make him seem like more of a villain but there was no motivation because they didn't have the second thing where two flowers meant to actually be killed with the letter from the grand vizier there was no reason for him to really be that villainous and i feel like again a speech impediment is used as like a silly comedy shorthand for villain so that bugs me yeah saying that i i could quite happily watch watch jerry eyes just stalk around looking stern while holding a very small dog i thought he did pretty well actually i was a bit confused as to why they gave him a speech impediment i didn't see it as a pistachio thing honestly yeah because it wasn't like weirdly over done that's possibly

because it was jeremy arms doing it and he's a good actor yeah i think i was yeah i think that was good actor in the bad ways oh no there aren't really good actors in this um is it yeah i think there are some good actors i mean yeah samwise did all right shawna i think shawnas hadn't made that part his own very well i liked gulder yeah it was going to go which by the way try and kills gulder in this one yeah which is a change i don't like i should have written that down oh where he pushes him off wait he actually kills gulder this is bullshit oh no it's fine oh wait no this is bullshit he did kill him yeah i like they made gulder a bit more intelligent and competent like he's very sharp well no he's very sharp in the book but he he catches himself

out they make him a bit more actively competent here like you see him shewing the the arrow himself and doing a bit of his own smithing yeah and you see him being a lot more aware of trimon not being trustworthy from the start and i think he's just um i think they kind of make him a bit more like an arts chancellor we meet in nata berks yes he's got hints of him yeah definitely which is also putting out that gulder he's played by james cosmo who was jayle mormon in game of thrones i see the big big boy old old boy at the wall uh oh yeah i guess it's ten years later yeah yeah yeah i mean yeah no i remember he's not young in this no um it's just like oh as it's made in england therefore we're looking out for

actors there's a few actors in this they're in game of thrones um but yeah i i i really liked what they did with the character because he's incompetent in the books but he's physically very he's a bit more frail yeah and he catches himself out i kind i i really prefer that to try and be killing him because like it's such a crap end it's just like oh i just pushed him off a roof yeah after all this stuff about him like having foiling a bunch of assassination attempts they just pushed him off a roof yeah but then it does serve to make the whole red star thing because he's distracted by the star and the chainspell yeah it does serve to make that give that another purpose to make that a better cliffhanger ending yeah than that literal cliffhanger of

rinse when chatting to scruffula disagree i liked that i liked that no i like even as good even though i agree dropping the scruffula bit i liked the literal bed him hanging off a cliff as a cliffhanger i did like that yeah i i think i will say in the change where the chainspell makes great art here and literally swoop under rinse wind and catch him i hate yes like because in the book the chainspell happens and then rinse wind is just in a forest where he was falling off his book rather than a swooping space turtle like that was probably what killed so much the cgi budget that they couldn't do good troll work but yeah so yeah i did great tattooing there positives trunk turtle uh yeah i i thought that was one of the less good

bits of cgi i didn't know it wasn't great but i loved it i did have like i think did you make also waggy waggy wolf boys i quite liked the german chef and playing the the wolves the really waggy cute little dogs playing the vicious wolves i do like that they didn't bother trying to make the wolves look that fierce like i love that you like dogs always have like wagging tails in films because oh yeah because if they're not they're doing a good yeah they're doing a good job and there is someone over there with a bit of sausage like uh there's a bunch of films that had to use cgi tails for dogs because the actual dogs were wagging their tails i love that no it makes me really happy you know i mean also i wish there were more real wolves i could just look at

but that's just because i really like wolves yeah they're so cool yeah i wish they were still wild in britain i felt like i'd have less i think you'd have been eaten how many times have you walked home in the dark drunks were random bits of countryside good point you'd be dead yeah no i mean i want wolves but like not here and something one of them would have eaten my puppy yeah look at it that's a wolf snack if heavy is the one yeah i mean that one bite it's a very cute puppy but one bite okay so we were talking about wolves um sorry what yeah proof know that cring the asshole sword is voiced by a guy called andy robb i couldn't see him doing a lot he's like like i was kind of a cring apologist in the books but i've got nothing here crings it irritating and the bit where then

like liessa's got a talking son is like i'm a talking son too and there's even more annoying voice yeah it's like cring violence oh it's like the woman has the one with the fucking kazoo voice does she cool no sorry i'm saving voice i'm sorry are you saving your feminism all for one rant at the end because if so i'm going to need another coffee for it let's get through the characters guys but we don't well uh go to weatherwax and that's james cosmo who's in game of thrones and let's get to cohen who's played by david bradley who was in game of thrones whoo whoo he did a great job and dodger who he was such good casting i liked that he was good he was him even jack watched it jack who doesn't give a shit about anything this well and he went oh look that's

your chaffey off the front of that book you got yeah uh that that book you got being the last hero and that chaffey being of course cohen the barbarian looks wise characters wise everything apart from one shot where he's talking about not having any teeth and you can see his teeth that's not his fault yeah but it's perfect casting and it's really nice to see david bradley play someone who isn't a villain because he was a villain in game of thrones he was in game of thrones he was walder fray oh yeah yeah he was very good as walder fray but it was it teens a villain in harry posse he was filch who is arguably a shit villain but a villain like he's not good he's not a hero yeah he's a mile-down haggardist yeah and in doctor who he played a villain in a really weird episode of

doctor who that has like everyone in it so is it from the matt smith series and it's the dinosaurs on a spaceship episode where like hijinks and she went in up on a spaceship and there's dinosaurs and it has david bradley in it who's also been in game of thrones in harry potter it has the guy who plays ron weasley's dad in it oh he's in a bunch of stuff though yeah he's one of those omnipresent British characters yeah it has the guy who was lestrade in sherlock in it and the woman playing queen nefertiti in it was yeah yeah yeah no so it has like a bad victorian explorer queen nefertiti uh a boring english man amy and rory which is you know good actors playing badly written characters and it sums up a lot of recent doctor who i feel strongly about this

i'm sure you do uh the woman playing nefertiti i'm gonna do a podcast about that with somebody else fine i can't do a doctor who spin-off no it's okay for me to do if it involves david tannin i'll talk about it but anything past or before that i don't really care it's what i'm like yeah so the woman who plays nefertiti was in a Shakespeare play with david tannin i forget which one now i think he was lovesavis lost okay cool anyways there was a bunch of cross i was in that dodger here episode right but yeah so it was nice to see david tannin play someone who isn't a villain okay that's the point i'm trying to make okay you got that you got that you're sweating it felt like i just ran a marathon um but the scene about um i like his eyes they see for 50 years

which was your favorite quote from they did keep in they did it well i that had jay didn't ever play he didn't overact he was so good in it and you could have hand co-in up yeah and one criticism of the co-in thing and it's not from him um what did i take this from uh wikipedia of other looks of it i've copy pasted this quote from uh lismay brice brackets herriner yeah noted the contrast in the fairy fight sequence saying the way we've done the fight he brackets co-in the barbarian is almost brackets winning by mistake it's sort of fun whereas herriner is very deliberate well that's rubbish isn't it the point is that he's good yeah like that's why he's been a lot he's alive yeah that's why he's a lifetime in his own legend because he is good and it's more of this

bullshit yeah they make him clumsy and they make him like there's one bit where he jumps on a bunch of attackers and then his back goes isn't that how it works i don't say no no his back goes after he fights off a bunch oh that's it yeah yeah quite right yeah whereas this is like a bethane has to save him which right you talk about bethane yeah you want to talk about bethane do you want to talk about bethane i want to talk about like laura haddock fine she's not bringing much that i could really find yeah the name like laura haddock are we surprised i thought i mean i thought excellent name by the way excellent name but if you want to be the the put in generic pretty girl role you have to change your name uh you say that like bethane in the book isn't just a generic

britico role no i know a bit of the film it was always gonna be yeah but she's an overexcited child in this film yeah she's so competent and also she's 30 yeah and like no events laura haddock she doesn't look like a teenager no and that's fine yeah that's totally fine but don't have her write her as a teenager actually no i think they did at one point specify in her 20s and at the time actually i remember thinking actually that's probably not a bad choice if you're going to do oh yeah for that relationship fine but then they still wrote her actually in my kateen age yeah yeah yeah which they didn't need to do in the book she's quite competent uh she's very practical she's very roll her sleeves up shoves her knee and his back tells him to stop there we go someone

get the lineman yeah exactly and then she's like oh the the smile when she has the dine he has the dine she is i watched about three times because it's the most fucking hammy ogre the top wait how's it go yes i can't do it without looking like i'm some kind of horrible undersea fish but so again undersea fish deep sea fish again a lot of it's the oh god that's terrible i'm not even gonna take a photo of that oh please don't no this is our christmas episode i'll listen the same to that for christmas but she's written a so simpering she said giggle in i was like simpering at the word yeah simpering and like where she was very practical yeah like cool it's going but like lineman fine and then she's oh oh it's him and then they do this bit where she's sort of

gossiping and whispering with two flower and it's this because two flower is not is young but not a particularly masculine hero yeah they feminize him in a weirdly camp way so he's it was like too when they're both giggling and pointing at cohen it's like two teenage girls giggling together and considering the way two flowers sees cohen is so meaningful to cohen and like the way that the eyes that see for 50 years makes me well up for that line to come from him simpering and giggling with rather than being like overall yeah like yeah there's a there's a there is a difference and there was a way they didn't hit it yeah yeah and there was a teenage girl next to both of them in those scenes that i didn't like as much as i deserved nearer and up not even actually the

yeah the the stereotypical teenage girl we should say because yeah an actual teenage girl next to it probably would have been pretty cool yeah because i mean an actual teenage girl is times person of the year it was just an outspread to chinberg good effort boom boom she's so cool she is so cool uh you know what we're like at 16 something i would not have been times person of the year we were just talking about me at 16 when i first saw this uh anyway i feel like this this comes to uh so it's the final character slash casting bit i want to talk about oh i can tell by the time of your voice that's herana is it that is herana the henard head oh i've seen before we get there before we get there and give you a chance to warm up those tonsils oh gross no cut

that uh sorry um oh um i forgot what i was saying now i hate myself let's get to it um before we get to herana oh yeah before we get to herana let's introduce your feminist brand with a small revisit to the lost the color of magic feminist brand which is uh liessa how do you think that was i mean i think pretty comparable to the work rate well so i was going to bring this up i might as well bring this up now and put all the feminism in one place here yeah right so should we make a coffee then let's pause and then let's get into some yeah let's pause and then we'll have like the angry feminist third act of the podcast yeah cool okay shall we uh purple post it for feminism then yeah yeah um obviously because of the medium i haven't managed to put any purple posted notes

anywhere that if we could imagine the purple post it for this bit i i was as soon as i wrote feminism time i i imagined your purple post it darling okay so when do you think a woman speaks on screen for the first time in part one rough guess honestly i'm fucking banging minus an hour and a half long minute 45 yeah 52 minutes 16 seconds uh the next one i'm not surprised after that and that is so you asked me about liessa dragon lord that's when we uh no yeah no that is the first time she speaks and they've chickened out trying to pronounce it some age mark and i just yeah she only briefly was that they cut a bunch of her story which actually i don't really mind no i found that bit quite boring in the book so um the next woman on it in it speaks at

one hour 22 minutes and seven seconds unless you count the dragon two flowers dragon which is voiced by a woman uh so that's that's kind of another speaking woman but it's an imaginary dragon yeah i did like the dragon by the way the look of it oh yeah actually i thought all the visuals with the dragons of the wonderg like i thought that was pretty cool do you know the fight they did uh they were actually hanging out to down for it oh were they yeah uh they had to keep stopping because like liessa and uh uh rodin actors were both like nearly passing out yeah i somehow failed to note down who plays the essa um i forgot but she's good at it i guess she's pretty good and actually she makes the best of a pretty bad character she's wearing a lot more than liessa is in the

books well yeah i think out of uh necessity for showing it on the telly but yes but quite a lot more um i don't know i don't hate the whole liessa bit it's a very weird thing so only two women speak in this whole film apart from the dragon but the two women that speak are both women of color and it's this really weird thing we're like you don't even get to see women of color in a fantasy setting so it's like oh this is somehow progressive and terrible at the same time like the woman doesn't speak for nearly an hour but it's a woman of color when it does yeah so like are we grateful for scraps or i mean we're not i was never expecting these films to pass the back to us or anything yeah because the books don't the books don't and they're in no adaptation and i'd rather they

didn't than they like made it there was no character to make female no like out of the main characters like it it wouldn't have really worked for coen to be female if you were then going to have the hair and a character at all it doesn't really if if two flower or rinse room was female there would be a fucking romance and i'm really glad that there is little to no romance yeah i can't be after that yeah the coen and bather romance is fine like actually that is one of the few main asemba romances in a film that has never discussed to me in the slightest it's slightly grosser in the film than it is in the book just because you're seeing it and no because bethan because she's all sympathy because so much of our agency is removed um

but also she is made a bit older than the character in the book so it kind of yeah yeah because she's in her 20s i feel like it's okay for it to make that choice uh so yeah i actually weirdly that relationship doesn't all graze me out yeah um i'm glad they cut all the run and the s of stuff oh yeah that would have just been tedious wouldn't it yeah kind of would have been cool to have a little bit of backstory there yeah considering they went so much effort with the really cool effects and everything like not flushing it out at all with a tiny bit of exposition was a bit weird yeah like considering they're not scared of exposition no and just the conversation with her and her father yeah but then i feel like it would have said then if you

didn't know the father that would have been a whole thing but i thought it was i thought i'd have the half dead father would have been a bit weird yeah but i thought it was interesting to note like so in this we don't get a woman speak a like a named woman speaking on screen until 52 minutes 16 seconds you might hear a female extra shout something before that is that about page 100 you're probably yeah uh so in the life fantastic we see a woman on screen for the first time at 14 minutes and 13 seconds and she speaks for the first time i mean we're still watching yeah yeah um well because i'd noticed it for the first part i thought i'd notice it for the second was this better this was better and she speaks for the first time uh 16 minutes and 54 seconds

only three minutes up she appears um and i've already said how i feel about the bethyn character like it's fine i kind of expected that to do that because she's the pretty blonde character yeah yeah but i feel like as a feminist reading and when i talk about like in the first part the next time a woman speaks a woman at 22 it is a woman with one line i mean that woman is noma duesney who who played himione yeah oh yeah yeah sorry sorry my chest is saying you're gonna be slaves great right feminism we're doing feminine yeah let's do like i said you can't do a massive feminist read of this film just because there's not a lot of women in it no there's five five that's the main takeaway isn't it yeah i mean i have one two three four

yeah like i'm not including i'm counting four and that includes heranus henchwoman let's talk heranus let's talk heranus the henna head harridan in a horrendous interpretation on screen what the fuck was she wearing what the fuck you know what this wouldn't even i expected like i'd forgotten a lot of the content of this film coming up to this point i expected that i was going to see a scantily clad woman i expected that they would have lived at the source material and gone right but we've got the opportunity to put in a woman in leather let's put a tits up to a chin like i i fully expected that what i did not expect is that they would do that while still including the narration from the book that calls her unattractive yeah or unattractive

unattractive doesn't that ungroomed yeah ungroomed needs a bath and then there is this woman tits up to the chin perfect her plucked eyebrows shaved armpits yeah by the way you know how corsets work that didn't look like it fitted her it didn't right that was too small that looked painful yeah that was not just up to her chin but squashed in such a way that made me very uncomfortable to look at there was a red head that was good with a sword and i didn't find her attractive i just wanted to give her a hug and well-fitting clothes yeah not like big loose baggy clothes women can wear tight clothes and be very competent i'm fine with that women can be groomed or ungroomed and be very competent but that just was badly made and didn't fit her

and i feel sorry for the actress because she had to have a very uncomfortable day filming where she had to do stunts with her tits there i mean there must have been double sided tape yeah surely but also her random hench woman like okay cool you added an extra female character you made one of the henchmen a hench woman but you put her in hot pants and you put her in a fucking bikini like she was too you know i didn't even register with me i was so upset about the corset army it's like it's like the corset but without the midriff right hot pants and a cape and some boots strong look i mean not for fighting so i mean i'd wear it like i would very much wear that outfit but don't be like hey look we put another woman in she's wearing less but don't that whole point that

whole bit that was a bit Joanna i loved that bit that was a bit in the book like that was explicitly about not doing that so what the fuck it is not parody if you are just doing the thing and don't do the thing while using a piece of narration that is about how you're not doing the thing yeah okay yeah a just it wouldn't have been that hard just to do it as pratchett had done if you really can't help yourself and need to put in the bikini women yeah then leave out the narration yeah and give them points at fit i was expecting that they would make her and the henna head harridan an attractive woman with tits up to which in covered in leather like i i was never not expecting that i was expecting her to be wearing more cover-up clothes that were just

form-fitting to be honest i was expecting i was expecting a skin tight leather outfit yeah i was expecting some kind of scantily cloud or skin tight situation i was not expecting that but to still keep that narration from the book yeah i mean shut by the way segway bit brian cox's narrator is amazing i love his voice because he has an american accent in succession and plays like a character that i hate yeah but he's really good at it yeah but i forget that it's that guy from succession because he's doing the american accent and the main my main recognizable thing about brian cox is his voice yes so it stops being him when he's doing the american accent so it's all very weird because it's logan roy talking about henna the henna head harridan

and how she's not attractive or groomed as she comes on with like straightened hair plucked eyebrows again shaved armpits i can't imagine like anyone not having shaved armpits in i've i've never i've honestly go i've never seen a tv program that has a woman with unshaved armpits i have but it's been very like this is there to show a woman with unshaved armpits yeah yeah maybe like in a safer is making a point in like girls or yeah yeah okay yeah that's true but not in like the character hasn't shaved armpits kind of way yeah i know but not even a bit stubble no which means these women all these women in these things must be waxing their armpits and god like if you ever waxed your armpits yeah i did not care for it no god that hurts

her less than she did than waxing my legs weirdly i very sensitive like skin ah no armpits had a lot more than legs for me like take it and i'm saying this is like i'm not saying it's feminist or i'm feminist i have shaved armpits i'm saying whatever you want with your armpits don't describe a woman as ungroomed and then have her with her tits up to return with shaved armpits and barely plugged up yeah and also don't pretend like shaving your armpits is something you balls are doing when you're out on the fucking road like hunting someone down as a barbarian like yes you can you can be feminist and shave your armpit sure but honestly you're mixing up your priorities a bit if you're shaving your armpits and wearing a corset while

out on the hunt for a when he gave withered with the world ending spell in his head exactly it's not like you have a lot of opportunities for a whole shower here oh what if she dry shaved haha no like looking at them she's clearly waxing what is she fucking waxing i don't know i half suspect they start using they started using makeup on people's underarms probably anyway anyway so yeah one good point i'll make one and did they have to just oh i'm sorry i'm sorry did they have to no god no of course they didn't like could they just have not could you just let a woman not be perfectly groomed on screen like with all the unattractive men in it it's just such a contrast as well like some tv programs you're like well everybody is just weirdly groomed in this fine

whatever this is just clearly so we can all look at the beautiful people but this whole thing was full of ugly ass men gurning yeah like all the women have to be so fucking pretty and simpary apart from her and her who scowls a bit and pouting yeah but she pouts she pouts rather than scowls and she's not intimidating like the fact that a woman is a warrior is kind of playing for laughs a bit yeah um she's shown as really incompetent and she like loses she loses the one fight she has and some of this is like stuff that happens in the book but there are two like where car of magic has no real decent female characters yeah like liessa is the best we have and i and i like although they truncate her story i like liessa and this yeah she's less sexualized

and like i mean cool and fighting in good stance and yeah it was interesting also as a queer woman like she's a hot woman in boots and a sword and i didn't really mind it because she was written as hot in the book and yeah i mean i don't yeah i feel like the fewer women in leather became so bad but i wasn't expecting anything else yeah yeah um i know but i feel like i'm a hypocrite if i'm paving on someone will also complain about women being scanty like but god give us mental and also in that bit actually they did also have scantily clad hot men exactly actually they yeah well that wasn't that was an equal opportunity everyone was a poorly dressed society but that was but caves in damp yo yeah mate you can never get your clothes dry

and leather oh god leather in a cave there's bad choices bad choices sorry anyway i've interrupted you like three times now what you're trying to say god i've forgotten uh no the one good thing oh yeah so there's one good thing um you have the scene where trymon says he sent a hero and they said and they did a bit about why would you send a hero this is very accurate from the book if badly acted like the lines are from the book yeah i was gonna say yeah they use the they actually use most a lot of the dialogue from the book uh they you then get the narration about harana but in the initial narration before it actually cuts to seeing this woman talking about the hero that has been sent and the singular thing is used for the narration until the reveal of

harana and like it's such a tiny thing but it makes me really happy to hear a singular they use when you're talking about a character who's gender you don't know because like i feel like that would be more controversial now like i have so many arguments trying to explain like no the singular they is grammatically correct like it's fine use it yeah it's been used for a very long time it's only recently been accepted by like copy editing associations and like the bigger yeah but it has a bigger publishers but um it has a longer history a longer history than you technically spelling it like so yeah um so just just i've been trying i've been dying on that hell for so long but it's very nice to hear it used in something like this that would have gone

through editors yeah i i didn't notice use fit in a book it was also there was a couple of other fun though moments that made me happy is uh someone who's aware of non-binaryness a lot okay yeah there's a bit where the i have no idea what the wizard's actual name is but the one that makes tyrell plays and that where they're having the meeting and they're talking about um agenda and the wizard says what does agenda do obviously i was watching this at home and my husband says i fuck all mate abolish it i feel very strongly about that abolish all gender and uh after we get the baby world turtles right at the end there's one last little epilogue with terry practically back in his cameo and the other actor says to him does this mean the test of

his female and terry project says it's all a matter of perspective which i like to think is terry project it's quite a way of saying non-binary right so go terry we like it bit of a scratch but okay mate like i'm reaching that's fine reach all you like darling it's christmas we'll reach for a bit you can have that that can be my gift to you i'm not going to argue with you i thought it'd be nice to move on from like the complete lack of feminism to um cheeky bit of terry said trans rights all right that's definitely a stretch but yeah so do you have any thoughts on her and her before we move on no nothing that you haven't said cool i mean general exasperated disappointment and non-surprise

i just i'm only disappointed because they still use the narration from the book really had one i mean if they hadn't i'd have been disappointed but it'd been fun to talk about it'd be like ah isn't it silly that like it says this in the book but they did it like this but like honest no that's the bit that makes me angry oh no see they said this in the book that did it like this i expect so much like i expect women to be made prettier but like they said this in the book but they didn't like this but they clearly did read the book because they're using the bit from the book while they did it like this yeah so it's partly that for me it's yes it's annoying like it's it's stupid it's stupid inconsistency that they did that but for me it's the point

of her was to subvert the trope if you're going if you really can't stand to have a woman not in fucking corsetry then just leave her out i think that character would have been better left out for the storyline oh you could have done the troll bit you could have just had long camp in a troll's mouth yeah rather than the entire fucking point of that character was to subvert and so but then to say beth in the whole point of beth in was to take this infreing virgin and make her alarmingly not alarmingly competent but to make her very non-descriptly i'm just good at things yeah i'm good at these in the back i'm good at lineman i'm just eminently practical yeah but at least she did have those bits on top of this infreing you know yeah whereas yeah her and i was

just like oh we weren't subverting a trait but then we decided to use leather i don't know anyway sorry that just that made me sad rather than angry honestly like i couldn't even get annoyed about this using inconsistency it made me grumpy and i think i stick by more of my grumpyness came from the fact that there was such an awareness that makes me think do you think that that's what an ungrateful woman looks like no they don't because they did the makeup exactly but then why would you still use that bit of narration like because you know this is what you're doing i'm surprised Pratchett didn't kind of stand on a hill for that was it for that one i would love to say yeah he would die on all of these hills but like i'm sure he wasn't paying that close

attention to be honest no i know he was there for a bits of it but he wasn't there for most of it he wasn't actively involved in in every aspect of it and even if he was like that he's gonna argue every bit yeah yeah and that may not have been the most important thing because it is like it's a throwaway joke of overthrowing a trope yeah oh that was a good sentence throwaway joke of overthrowing a trope mate mate it was a throwaway joke of overthrowing a trope uh in a box with some lumps in the book like it was it was a bit and then the character did stuff but it wasn't like a key character so i can imagine it not being a hill to die on like he obviously also didn't die on the hill of jointly mischaracterizing triumphant yeah that's true and the reason i'm more

disappointed about that i've done i mean triumphant was just a fucking travesty but yeah there is no more disappointed about this it's because it personally about all this me it's a yeah it's one of the mate there's a reason everyone left free end of tar thing gave me throwing so much and just the fact that it is really nice to see a woman on screen he like has short hair is big and and doesn't wear makeup or pre dresses yeah didn't they forget she had a scar halfway through it or something yeah massively i'm really glad i didn't get into that show so yeah so that was my big feminist rant i guess um you want to talk about the fact that fantasy doesn't belong on screen yeah i'm sorry it's slightly controversial take probably i think fantasy looks shit on screen

and on stage it's best in books in your imagination the classic fantasy of like the medieval looking costumes and the dramatic fights and that either needs to be done with an astronomical budget our lord of the rings oh just better yet kept in your head because people look fucking stupid walking around in wizards robes and yeah most actors can't do a sword fight that is anything but boring i agree and i don't like i see your point but also i really love fantasy movies and i don't mind bad effects if there's good writing like we thought i think a bit i don't know if any of it's actually in the podcast about the dark crystal and that uses the puppetry stuff but so well like you forget it's puppets until you saw the moment of going why have i not seen

any of the characters legs yeah um i think fantasy can belong on screen it does depend on the fantasy i don't think this really belongs on screen no some of the discworld books like very much so like uh you because you haven't seen any of the adaptations have you no no this is my first one i'm asking okay as you can tell thrilled by the experience so far really looking forward to next yeah this is probably the worst of the bunch i'd say oh good was it there's four so i was kind of looking forward to going postal i feel like going postal will be much better on screen going but it's all like they change around a bunch but again it all works i don't care if they change stuff around if it's not the shitty panto fantasy it's got a couple of panto villain moments but

Richard guilt is a panto yeah i mean that's him that's fine uh triumph was not a panto villain yeah the yeah this the the wizard sword and sorcery i hate it but wizards in a university in robes thing yeah doesn't work on screen no not unless you're gonna spend the money to make it look like harry potter yeah like but even harry potter like especially the first couple is like why are they dressed like that like yeah yeah yeah there's no need harry potter the rape stuff works in the books because then in the books they don't understand how to wear normal people clothes yeah and all dress kind of stupidly when they try yeah they kind of get rid of all that in the film and they wear normal people clothes all the time and i hate it because that was one of my

favorite bits of the books is like yeah have that lack of understanding of each other's cultures yeah uh so that was a little thing that sorry that's harry potter there that's not this but i can i can very much see your point and yeah the wizards look silly like it all looks a bit silly and more people doesn't yeah because most of the people address like i don't know presence whatever yeah generic victorian extra number seven yeah which everyone's just so used to seeing that like yeah whatever it's kind of anywhere from medieval to victorian it is all the same bravy british paul person yeah no yeah no i see your point i like your point so yeah so we talked a bit about the cgi already and he's weirdly hit and miss yeah it's like those

the the weird purple spells jumping about look like something they're awful the i think the most incongruous thing i i feel like i'm always misusing that word is i know you liked tronky tattle donkdeaddle tronky tattle and the weirdly plastic looking elephants yeah like that did look like plastic elephants oh i see i like bad cgi animals i know my bad cgi animals what got me about that is the the rim fall like the waterfall okay was solid and didn't move and looked really awful but then there's a shot where rinse wind and two flower like leaning over the edge of the world and you get the shot of the rumbo and the water falling and it's beautiful and it's cgi and it's where you see the eighth color in the rainbow oh yeah yeah that is cgi is it a lot of that i see

yeah well there's uh waterfall without a details it's like why would you make it look so beautiful but from a distance just look like a squiggly bit of cardboard stuck to the edge of a paper plate yeah and i say this is you know a contributors that time we did a pumpkin carved like the disc world where we which was amazing you know the elephants up there like oh yeah yeah pictures on our twitter or our instagram if i make one have you still got the pictures somewhere in the world fabric glue on my jeans that was a good day that was a good day but it i'm not being funny like the cgi disc look like that time we carved a tap we carved a pumpkin like a turtle bought four toy elephants stuck them to the back and then drew the disc on a

paper plate and balanced it on the elephants we did a good job i think i mean half an hour's work that was a good halloween that was a disc world themed halloween yeah you were a great bill door it was a great bill door actually i'll find a picture of that i just wore gold and the false moustache and said it was moist from lip wig i enjoyed it hey my lip wig was moist because i've got beer on it i had a long beer without a moustache all right one of our friends turning up as terry bratchett and like oh that was creepy so realistic to the point i did a double take with it and jay i think that's before terry passed away as well no it wasn't it was not long afterwards and it was like it was that year yeah yeah anyway that that's a huge but yeah that's what

that's what the cgi disc elephants great as you and look like yeah um the luggage looked pretty good but that was a person in a box with legs running around was it i think they used some cgi and like enhanced it what to get all the legs to get all the legs and like they managed to make that would look baleful like i was like the tilting the positioning i thought the luggage was great i thought it was because there was a human in the same person who was playing the orangutan librarian he was also the richard costa was also the luggage yes that was a cool little overlap i'm but they could have easily done some bad cgi googly eye shit on the luggage and i'm sure they didn't i thought the troll looked good as well yeah when they would get stuck in the

troll's mouth i thought that was quite impressive considering how shit the elephants looked that's it it was it was just weird i would prefer consistent cgi to we blew up at it i would much rather it was consistently average than some looked exactly how i pictured it and some looked off and the spells looked terrible any other thoughts on cgi no i quite enjoyed the bad bits fair enough i did have some like kind of links to the cgi i think so especially because it was it was the image of ank morepork and the description and the image of the worm bag oh that's it yeah no i like the worm bag a lot i really like the worm bag and ank morepork burning in the distance yeah see well both of those just static paintings though entirely

possible i don't know enough about cgi it looked like it to me yeah i think the worm bag probably was the dragons though the dragons look great yes the dragons transition from invisible to real and back again like they had good stuff happening there that was such good cgi and the elephant i feel like that all the stuff we saw right i do remember was like an afterthought where like some went guys no we need to actually like just show what this looks like no one is gonna like we we need to see the turtle the elephants and the disc like actually that's quite important that we see the whole yeah and i it felt very afterthoughty but this is um i know they use the narration in the book but this is what i like about film as a medium yeah it's that you can establish in like

a second was it pages of the book to describe one of my big complaints about uh the worm bag and crawl was like i really struggle in with how they're written in the book to picture them and the film it's just it's there and that's that's what's what's described in the book but it works and it's that you have that visual yeah and i like this visual medium as a shorthand sometimes like uh the whole thing with rince when a two-flower have a nice day out oh no yeah i really liked the iconograph i thought the stylized little iconograph things were really cute and nice not yeah i saw that was a really clever little thing and i thought the the iconograph itself looked very cool mm i that was really well done and that was something that works really

well in a visual medium and there's what i like about film and why i try not to get upset about i do still get upset about adaptations and i totally get why you don't like this yeah again it's not from the way it was adapted it's just because it's crap yeah but as a medium like the descriptions of ang moork are lengthy and poetic and incredible but you can establish all of that in like a in an establishing shot if you've got built a good set and got some good CGI like i don't know if you can though because a big part of all ang moork's description is the smell yeah but i think they conveyed it really like i like what they did with ang moork i think how they conveyed it on screen was very good i think they did it as well as they could have done yeah

yeah but i think because perhaps it makes such a big deal of describing the smell yeah i'm never gonna get it get it but that's the point it's meant to be unimaginably but also like i've stood near the Thames i feel like i can not since they redid those fucking sewers fair point it's bad enough as it is now yeah okay you only see a fox riding a dead terrapin or whatever tell you oh god i love england and a sorry on the wall sit here on the wall messing about and that's like most used to boat about on a mess sorry is that the sorry perglobes no relation no relation

did i have anything else interesting to say i have no idea how long we've been recording like three hours jesus i yeah you're editing this yeah i know it seems exactly as is it'll be great yeah that seems like a good idea with all these details about your personal life oh yeah let's not do that final what have we got film of the medium feminism time did the feminism there's a good line that tfrw two flower and spend our philosophies there's a so as much as i'm annoyed we missed tathis in the island but there's a bit where they've washed up at the edge of the world and they stood on a rock and while it is a part of what i don't like which is the weird way the

relationship between two flower and rinse wind is built up it this is the moment that cements their friendship they have this conversation where rinse wind is ranting at two flower and saying ever since i've been around you like i've been i keep having near-death experiences and two flowers says will you see it as near-death i see it as edge of life and it's such a what for one sentence it completely sums up the difference between them is where two flower is very excited to be living life to the fullest and i'm doing my book version as well as the yeah yeah yeah whereas where that line is in there book is it no i do think so no i think i feel like i called that out as being wanky

it is wanky yeah but that's a shorthand for no sorry it works well yeah and i think if you're gonna go with this route of this friendship being so intense for them as much as i dislike the way rinse winds character is changed in this i like the moment where rinse wind looks at two flower and says actually you've got a point let's agree to disagree yeah and then figure out how to get the fuck off this rock yeah but it gives them a nice friendship moment where is where in the book rinse wind is constantly exasperated by two flower yeah i and as much as i don't like what they do with this where they build the friendship a bit deeper only to then create some tension when they have a fight later i do like this moment of going

let's look at each other's point of view and let's agree to the screen let's get on a boat and get the fuck out of here yeah but i i don't know i feel like that was kind of covered in the book and word for word but badly in the film with the whole two flowers stepping on a daffodil true but i think it was i think it was good to have it here at the midpoint yeah okay yeah that sense uh because that's something the book is missing is that two friends when it's very much like done with two flower at the end of color magic when they're falling off the world rinse wind is not thinking about two flower yeah rinse wind is thinking about the fact she's gonna die yes there's one might so when they hook up again in the light fantastic it's a bit like

why are you guys still hanging out like this is just resignation there's nothing else to it yeah uh whereas here it's like oh this is why actually even when they're back on the world they still kind of stick together yeah also take a sidebar and nothing really to do that do like at the beginning of light fantastic you get two flower walking through a forest and he thinks a tree is talking to him but it's too loud you get rinse wind walking through a forest he thinks a tree is talking to him but it's two flower talking to him from up in the trees yeah which is a nice nod to the talking trees without doing some fucking camp talking trees bit yeah all right glad they did it i think that was a clever choice hmm to be honest unless you have anything else i

think that's all my ranting done um i think i've lost my momentum to be honest uh oh uh although they're trying and saying one small step whatever for wizard kind oh there was a cute little bit where they were trying and talking about what to call the big red star in the sky and two flowers suggested death star that that's bullshit that's a forced oh you're all nerds here you're all like this reference that was bullshit i don't like stars and i don't like the implication that i might okay won't find any joy in that one sorry mate um and partly because it came right on the heels of uh another forced fucking uh space pun i can't remember which one it was there were a lot of space puns and i do hate that i think like big bang theory does it all the time

where like because you're good at maths you must be into dodger around game of thrones and all comic books um yeah yeah no i just said you call me a joysack no no no i i i'm agreeing with you i was just saying i liked it because well yeah that's what they're doing they're not doing anything more than that i am aware that you have a certain you feel a certain way about stars and i'm not do you know what no because that's not fair because i i don't feel a certain way about stars and i think that's the problem it's like sports it's just it's everywhere and i people seem really confused that i do not give a fuck i know you've accept it i'm not i'm not including you in this i'm not part of this i i feel like as much as it is a star wars joke it is also a bit of a

like i'm gonna call it the death star like fun i don't know the point i'm making to be honest i feel like i should just i'm sorry i'm not meaning to give you a withering glare here i'm just tired i'm quite tired as well this is my face at 10 o'clock at night yeah sorry 11 it's nearly 11 how is it nearly 11 fuck i'm gonna meet people at 10 well i guess you're not no i mean to be fair i wasn't really gonna do that anyway should we like uh yeah let's start now like i've eaten i need to do sorry i didn't mean to keep you so long um definitely at least half my fault a lot of it was mine i have talked a lot uh so yeah so that was like i think that's that's all we've got to say about it i kind of want to end on a positive like i did enjoy rewatching it

yeah do you know what because you just agreed with me most of the time through here and yet you started out by saying i liked it or i didn't hate it or whatever it was tell me why you liked it try and like summarize why you liked this travesty no sorry that's really me so try and summarize why you liked this film i think a bit of it is because like we talked about this with color and magical like fantastic i struggle to read the books and for me if i'm struggling to read a book it will sometimes help to watch an adaptation of it so i saw this for i wanted to be into terry project yeah like a bunch of my friends where everyone i knew had read at least one this one of all yeah and i felt like i couldn't get into it because i couldn't get past those two

books yeah so people i knew sat me down and watched this with me when it came out it was an intervention yeah more like my in-laws at the time uh in-law to mention yes they sat me down and watched this with me when it first came out and they were like okay well now you can be into it and it helped me read the books afterwards because i like had this context and as much as i get you know you don't like pantoca any acting i dislike more of the casting now i like the books more i don't know i brought dislike into your life no it's fine i like i saw your points when i was watching it i made a bunch of my own angry points you know i didn't love it there wasn't a woman speaking until then and there are a lot of other negatives but i don't know it's fun i don't mind

a little bit campy i think the shifting the wizard story so it's spread across both books worked better yeah i will say my positive actually is i think they did a really good job streamlining it and moving some of the parts of the storyline around yeah so that it made more sense in general and certainly in a film context and i am so used to completely totally terrible adaptations to see one that keeps all of the main essential story points i kind of don't mind if mind if the acting is pantoe yeah so i feel like the base architecture was very well done for me but all other stuff on top i hated so uh the babel fishing like this is very much a the babel fishing in the general skewering of tourists yeah david bradley was perfect but uh they actually as much as they

made beth and simpering did some they made her old enough to have a bit more agency in that relationship than an 18 year old yeah 17 at the end yeah oh the dress was nice and the visuals you know that's how i pictured and more book yeah i think they did a good job with that more book they did a good job with a lot of the visuals not a lot of the scenery was funny because online i see a lot of people going oh beautiful scenery i'm like that is just basic ass english countryside that is something i always find quite entertaining a bit going through the mountains and the hills was pretty i was like where did you find those oh in the forest i mean i didn't know um when there's just a brief thing of rinse one and two flower riding through the forest trying to find each

other and it looks like the forest that's used in every episode that there's a forest in in the x files oh and it's not it's like on a different continent but i was like hey i've been there too many times it's the archetypal forest yeah yeah like i will still stand by and say it's a good adaptation i think this is what uh while keep saying i like it despite completely agreeing with all of your points is that there aren't a lot of good adaptations i feel spoiled now because we've had good omens um yeah no good omens were fucking perfect good omens were so perfect i think we've run out of the band i think we've said everything we can say about this but there's some other important things we do need to say to our dear little listeners

with their dear little legs most importantly happy hog swatch happy hog swatch or christmas or solstice delete is appropriate festive jubilation of joys dingle dingle we'll be back in january to talk about equal rights the third book in the discord series which is fun if you think our feminist rant was fun this time well we don't yeah there's less of the feminist rant and more of the feminist appreciation of the next one uh rant discussion appreciation all sides of a two-sided coin it's going through five dimensions you need to go to bed please feel free to follow us on twitter at make you fret podge uh find us on facebook the truth shall make you fret you can email us lovely christmas messages or angry rants whatever you like uh

the truth shall make you fret pod at gmail.com we have a website now as well oh yeah uh find us the truth shall make you fret dot com the truth shall make you fret dot com oh 800 have you even been disturbed by anything in this episode if we've disturbed you in any way during this episode uh the pvc have a helpline uh and until next time until next year we're here until next decade we're hey which is also going to be the year of the condescending carp yes dear listener happy hoax watch and don't let us detain you probably have a yorkshire accent and has recently been down a mile recently recently favorably look i don't bring well considering the bottle of old wine that's

happened i love you it's christmas