The Tucker Carlson Show - Andy Ngo: Cults, Human Experiments & Unsolved Murders Surrounding America’s Biggest Tech Oligarchs

Episode Date: October 19, 2026

The media have ignored the story of a transgender homicidal cult known as the Zizians. They’re linked to a number of violent murders across the country. Andy Ngo has the shocking details. (00:00) The Silicon Valley Zizian Cult and Trans Violence (18:45) Jack LaSota’s Transition (25:06) The Cult’s Ideology, Experiments, and Commune (31:33) The Cult’s First Victims (59:04) The Cult’s Next Victims Andy Ngo is a political journalist best known for covering street protests in Portland, Oregon. He has written for The Wall Street Journal, the New York Post, National Review, and more, and is a New York Times bestselling author. Get Ngo’s book “The Zizians: Inside a Trans Death Cult” here: https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/andy-ngo/the-zizians/9780316599030/ Paid partnerships with: Ethos: Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Get up to $3 million in coverage in as little as 10 minutes at https://ethos.com/TUCKER StopBox USA: Get firearm security redesigned and save 10% off @StopBoxUSA with code TUCKER at https://stopboxusa.com/TUCKER American Financing: NMLS 182334, nmlsconsumeraccess.org. Average savings based on borrowers who save over $199.99. Call 800-685-5696 or visit http://www.AmericanFinancing.net/Tucker. Mars Men: For a limited time, our listeners get 50% off FOR LIFE, free shipping, AND 3 free gifts at Mars Men at MenGoToMars.com Battalion Metals: Shop fair-priced gold and silver at https://battalionmetals.com/tucker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Unlock unlimited free grocery delivery with PC Express Pass. Shop online and get the same low No Frills prices delivered. Get your first year of PC Express Pass for just $2.50 a month. Learn more at no frills.ca. Andy, thank you for doing this. This is one of the most remarkable stories I've ever heard. And so I'd love to start at the beginning. Congrats on the book.

Who are the Zizzians? The Zizzines are a cult that has its origins in Silicon Valley, California. I first started paying attention to what I then learned were parts of the story in January 2025. That was inauguration day. On inauguration day, I saw in the headlines that a U.S. Border Patrol agent had been shot dead. In Vermont. In Vermont, right by the Canadian border, very close to Canadian border. Of course, with it being inauguration day, all of the international and national media coverage was on what was happening in D.C., so it didn't get very much attention.

It was actually not far from that border crossing that day, weirdly, in Vermont, which is not far from here. It's a very rural area in the middle of nowhere. It was icy, cold, super freezing, and two people were dead. one being one of the alleged shooters. Another alleged shooter was injured but survived, and then the Border Patrol agent, David Christopher Malin, was ambushed and killed there. So when I looked into that, I...

So you're just reading about this. Yeah, there were very few details, but then once I found out the names, and I started digging further, and this is in the context of where I've learned that we should come to expect media malpractice when it comes to a lot of details about criminal matters, particularly involving gender and trans.

So you can no longer take, for many years now, take even names and details such as sex at face value when it's being reported. I learned this unfortunately through my reporting on leftist violence over the years is that the media will use preferred names, preferred pronouns, preferred aliases for individuals they report on and oftentimes even on criminal matters. And so you can have all these stories where there are trans killers involved in violent cases and read reporting and come out not even knowing that this woman who did this sex crime or did this brutal killing or did these acts of violence is not a woman but actually a man.

So with the name and I just kept digging further initially. There was a lot of stuff going on in D.C. And I found out that, oh, huh, the surviving alleged attempted murderer in that shooting was, had a, applied for a marriage license in the Seattle area with a man in Seattle who had just been arrested for attempted murder, somebody who was an elderly key witness for a attempted murder trial in Salano County, California, which is in the Bay Area. And then I looked up, oh, that elderly man, several years earlier, has served. survived a brutal attack by trans suspects. He was impaled dozens of times. He had his eye gouged out in the attack.

And after surviving that, he was assassinated by somebody now who has a connection to this person in Vermont. And with all these things coming together, I was like, there's way more to the story. Yes, yes. And it's not just a simple case of an isolated homicide incident, but rather there appears to be a group involved here. And that was the start of my investigation.

But I want to back up a little bit. You know, I have so much gratitude to you because five years ago you provided a book blurb for my first book, Unmasked Inside Antifa's Radical Plan to Destroy Democracy. And my path from reporting on Antifa to writing about transviolence now, On the surface might not seem like there's a connection, but it completely was the logical path. At that time, in 2020, 2021, when there were so many riots going on after George Floyd died,

one of my big projects was documenting those who were getting arrested. In Portland, where I was living at the time, I every night through public records, got the booking photos. got the names and looked them out systematically. And I was seeing that there was a very odd pattern emerging at that time, which is disproportionately the suspects were trans in some way. They could identify as male to female, female to male or non-binary or some type of neo-pronounouns. This was six years ago, and I just put that thought in the back of my head. It was a question.

I was like, this is kind of weird. And you might recall that in 2019, I was brutally beaten in downtown Portland reporting on Antifa. And a lot of people are familiar with that case. I suffered a subarachnoid brain hemorrhage from that. And the people who did it were dressed in black block with their faces covered. And the Portland police closed the case without arresting anybody. but I pursued a civil case against individuals I had ledged that were party to that attack and or a attack that happened also in 2021. I was attacks repeatedly in Portland, which is also

part of the reason why I've been in exile abroad, living in England now for all these years. The individuals that I was able to identify in my civil lawsuit with the help of Harmeet Dillon, is three of the six individuals are trans identifying. So at that time, there was like this other half. Exactly. Another point of like what's going on with like all this trans violence. And in the years since we've had atrocity after atrocity, shooting after shooting, not just in the United States,

but other Western countries where the shooters are trans. And so it was within the... context now, you see now that I explain it, why, when I initially found out the names of the individuals who are alleged to have been involved in that ambush shooting, the Vermont border police officer, I was like, this is, I'm not taking it at face value that it was just a man and a woman who were allegedly involved. Everything requires further digging, and once I found some of the puzzle pieces, I realized this is material for a book. not just an article, because it was so much.

I then learned about this is a cult now who has its roots, ineffective altruism, rationalism. But then they, as they became radicalized, they pulled in bits and pieces of other beliefs, like trans-humanism, leftist anarchist politics. And they were a cult that recruited in the Bay Area and they're alleged to have been linked now to eight violent deaths in the United States and also in another country.

So there's a trail of bodies and the Zizians is a two-year investigation, a year and a half investigation. The Zizians is a year and a half investigation to what I discovered, the secrets of the group, the ideology. And the more I kept digging in, it became more and more gruesome and disturbing. And I've seen a lot of very ugly, horrific things in my time reporting on the violent far left. I've experienced it myself. I've seen people who have been named. I unfortunately was around deadly violence in Portland in 2020. So I thought I was prepared for what I would find. But this call, use human experimentation. They had hideouts across the U.S. They made their own labs in sort of like medical environments in the hideouts where they had. They administer their own hormones and medication.

So, the Zizians is really a story of what happens when rampant cross-ax hormone use radicals. ideology, protection from media and institutions, all these things merging together, then allowed a cult to allegedly carry out deadly violence over a course of nearly a decade now. Most people don't like thinking about life insurance. It's one of those topics you tend to kind of put off. But if you're married, you've got kids, you've got people who depend on you, you probably should think about what would happen if you weren't around. And that's why we've partnered with ethos. They've made getting life insurance super easy. You can do the whole whole thing online. You don't have to sit down with an agent or go through a medical exam.

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Where does it begin? Who led the cult? I'll start with the person that ended up being the leader. So on the cover, this picture is from the mugshot of Jack Almadeus Lasota. He was born in Fairbanks, Alaska, raised in a very liberal family, his father was and is involved in Democrat politics. But he otherwise had a somewhat normal upbringing him to younger sisters. He was very smart growing up and had an interest in Dungeons and Dragons and geeky stuff, Star Trek. He was very good at computer science. That's what he

excelled at in school. And he studied at the University of Alaska Fairbanks. graduated Magna Cum Laude and then was accepted into a graduate program at University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign for their prestigious engineering program there. Jack, like many of the people who ended up joining the Zizians, they can be described essentially as geniuses or very brilliant people and who come from STEM, educated backgrounds and or careers, those with degrees in engineering and bioinformatics. They include on their resumes, workstens at NASA and at Google. Some of them were making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in quantitative trading. So this was a highly selective, small group of people and ended up joining the Zizians.

But back to Ziz, or I should say Jack Lassota, as he was known. When he was a student, he became interested in rationalism, effective altruism. We're hearing about that a lot now. These are somewhat niche communities that are quite active in Silicon Valley. Rationalism is just a modern philosophical movement. It has its origins from centuries ago from European thinkers, but in the modern form, it's about to simplify using logic, reason, evidence, in the course of seeking and finding truth,

and then a related movement within that is effective altruism, which is using rationalist thinking to maximize good. So in the Bay Area, a lot of the people who work in, tech and AI programming are involved in rationalism, effective altruism. They are atheists and they believe that, and they're highly educated, they believe that we can find the best ways to maximize good in society, but their whole moral system is different than it's in opposition to, let's say, traditional Christian values or religion, just morals. So a lot of their debates were really kind of nonsensical in a way with some of the

effective altruists. For example, they spent and still spend a lot of time talking about the welfare of shrimp, prawns. You know, they're thinking that if, for example, if let's say 10% of them have some type of sentience, we're talking about billions and billions of shrimps that are being farmed and they're needlessly suffering. You know, these aren't Christians, so they view the life of an animal as equal to a human. So these are the type of a lot of these weird debates that were happening in the EA and rationalist community. They were very active online.

A lot of them are autistic. A lot of them have Asperger's syndrome. There's a lot of research showing that for those who have Asperger's. It does correlate at the tail end with really high intelligence as well. So for Jack Lissota, his original research interest when he was at university was studying Corona expulsions from the sun. That was the type of research that he was doing at NASA. But he became involved in these online forums and about rationalism and effective altruism. and he was reading it a lot, like a lot of people.

Less Wrong is one of the main forums where it was a large community. People discussing all these things I just talked about, debating them endlessly and coming up with mathematical algorithms and models for how this could be the best outcome, that could be the best outcome. And so he dropped out of his engineering program and moved to Silicon Valley and became involved in the rationalist community there. There were hundreds of them, around 2015, thousands that had moved there specifically so that they could get involved in the rationalist community.

And in that backdrop, he met other rationalists who were also very intelligent, and he convinced at least one of them that that person was trans. and he started recruiting people to his particular beliefs. So eventually, Ziz's ideology was more than just mainstream rationalism and effective altruism. He started pulling in things like aspects of trans ideology. In fact, he kept a very active blog online called Sin Seriously, a portmanteau of Sin Seriously. And on there, he wrote extensively about how he believed that trans people, particularly trans woman, has special cognitive abilities. And we're hearing a lot about EA now because there are the AI engineers and researchers who worked for Open AI or Anthropic who have spoken out quite recently and done a lot of media about existential risk, AI existential risk.

So even though the public now is just hearing about this, this has been a debate that's been going on for over a decade in Silicon Valley, those who believe that AI is going to become a super intelligent being, and if it's unaligned to human interests, is going to destroy the world, kill everybody. So Jack, later Ziz, winds up in Silicon Valley. He's dropped out of school. He's moved there.

in order to commune with other rationalists and affect your altruists and while there gets caught up in the debate about AI risk. Yeah, the Bay Area has a long history of weird people going there. And in fact,

the Zizians are compared a lot to the Charles Manson cult. And decades ago, Charles Manson also had his journey moving to the Bay Area and his start in California before he gathered members to form a cult that murdered nine people. And Charles Manson himself,

and we learned through the trials a long time ago, that he didn't do the actual killing of anybody, but he influenced other members within his group to carry out these type of attacks. So if the allegations ultimately are true about Jack Lesotho, also known as Ziz, that's also similar to what he did. So he went through quite a big transformation

once he moved to the Bay Area. He transitioned, started taking cross-sex hormones and testosterone, suppressors, met other trans people, and there were a lot of weird people, and there was also an aspect. Can I ask you the question? Do we know why he did that? That's a big step.

Within the Zizian ideology, based on his writings on his blog, he believed that trans woman in particular had certain special cognitive abilities. And he believed that all of the world was at an existential risk from AI destroying everything and that he thought he could be part of the vanguard of those who would save the world.

That was his world. That was his words. And he'd be more effective living as a woman doing that. Yes, but he also had this. this is where the trans ideology comes in in his writings. He believed that he was also born that way, that trans people were born that way within the brain. So he misquoted and misused certain research on his blog about trans brains.

And I write about in this book where the research on it actually doesn't show that trans brains on average are different because some of the research that was done, which did actually measure some average differences, was looking at people who, males, who were same-sex attracted. And I believe that's potentially what was being tracked in the differences that was being noted, very minor ones on average, rather than the fact that these were trans people, so-called trans women. Was he gay before he became trans? He wrote about experiences that he had sexually with another man,

on his blog, but otherwise he described himself in quite asexual terms. He described how he viewed his penis as like an alien appendage that and that... I'm going to stop right there, Andy, and say that's not a healthy world view. No, no, not at all. And he believed also that, and this is what he wrote about, that going through puberty was like part of his soul dying. So you can see how there are elements within some of the statements that are kind of repeated in mainstream trans ideology, being born in the wrong body, being born this way. If you prevent, if you allow, for example, a gender-confuse boy or girl to go through puberty, that you're setting that child up to a life of suffering,

because they're developing into a body that doesn't align with the gender ideology. Ziz named himself after Ziz, a fictional monster creature from an online fictional serial. And in that story, the monster influences people to become essentially walking time bombs that are destructive later. Looking back now, I mean, he picked, Lassota picked the name almost a decade. ago, I wonder, with the people that ended up dying around the group that he formed, that that name was actually quite intentional or not. Imagine it's 3 a.m. You're dead asleep. You wake up to a weird noise. It sounds like it's

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Learn more at no frills.ca. Right here on this show. So he starts living as a woman. Does he take hormones? He wrote about taking cross-sex hormones and testosterone suppressors. And he met other trans people. There was an element also in the Bay Area then and now within some in Silicon Valley of trans-social, trans as a social contagion. Of like where just suddenly a whole bunch of people began transitioning at the same time amongst similar social and friendly circles.

So he was developing his own ideology in parallel and ultimately in opposition to a very well-known rationalist and effective altruist thinker elites are Udoski. And Udoski is really seen as like one of the big forefathers for modern-day contemporary rationalism. He has a very large following. Many people move to the Bay Area, particularly because he has established two non-profits, Miri, Machine Intelligence Research Institute, and Seafar to research AI safety and rationalism. And he's for many, many years, most well known as one of the big AI Dumers. Earlier this year, he met with Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders and others. So he's been very influential in his career.

Ziz was a follower of Yidoski, but eventually believed that Yidoski wasn't doing enough to save the world. So Ziz then met another person who he recruited to his cause, Jasper Danielson, who used the name Gwen. And that was his first recruit. From there, the two of them really established sort of the groundwork of Zizians. And it's very big and complicated and hard to explain, but to summarize. Their main theory is that the brain's two hemispheres correspond to different identities.

One can be male, one can be female, it can be different sexes, it can be in opposition to one another, and one could, and they could be good or evil. Ziz, in his writings, described himself as being female in the brain and that both of his hemispheres were good, that he was one of the exceptionally rare people in the world born with this gift of being double good. So he had like a whole vocabulary around it. And then his goal then was to find and recruit people to his ideology and cause who he believed how. had at least one good core of the brain. And so in their ideology, because the two hemispheres of the brain are linked, they believed

that they needed to be separated and that they could do it through experimentations. And this is like the early formings of the cult-like elements of the group. So people that they were recruiting, so-called trans woman, men who identify as women, they would introduce them to the ideology, let them know how they can be part of this world-saving mission and being part of this vanguard, but you need to go through these experimentations. You need to jailbreak yourselves.

So this is particularly sought out other rationalists who were trans. And then from there, the line of inquiry would be to try to find out if they were open to these type of experimentation. And so I document... Were they separate? the two hemispheres of your brain? Yes, and the Zizzians believe that they could do it through sleep deprivation.

In Ziz very intentionally kept the details of how these experimentations were done secretive. He alluded to some of the steps in his writings, but never outlined it, and I believe that was part of sort of the intrigue with the group. It would get people curious to inquire it with them, and some did.

reading through some of the correspondence that I was able to gather as part of my investigation for this book. The experimentations was various kinds of sleep deprivation and manipulating members into essentially a state of psychosis

where they could be more easily manipulated through the extended sleep deprivation. Sleep deprivation has been used by a lot of cults, by the way. Of course and governments. Exactly. So part of what makes like the story quite unbelievable was the journey of Zizians from Silicon Valley and then ultimately many, many years later, being arrested in February 2025 in Allegheny County, rural Maryland, in Appalachian, Maryland. The Sisyans incorporated in leftist anarchist politics. So they did not want to submit themselves to the capital. capitalist system. And part of that included then coming up with really bizarre arrangements for how to live their life as essentially a commune. So one of the first projects was establishing a rat fleet, rationalist fleet, literally buying old boats. And the idea was to live on them so they didn't have to pay rent. And there's lots of really crazy stuff that happened. For example,

they bought an old World War II tugboat from Alaska and drove it all the way down to the Bay Area, but they didn't have any of the permits to be able to park it at a dock in Half Moon Bay. But they were allowed to go there on humanitarian grounds because they claimed that they were running into difficulty. And then they became squatters for years and years. They stayed there. they recruited people, they bought more boats, and there were people and then eventually who left the group. Do we have any idea where their money was coming from? Yes. So Ziz himself was bouncing from programming job to programming job,

and some of the other members were doing various other type of part-time employment things as well. So they were pouring in their own money into these projects. They really thought that they could create this. fleet of rationalists who would end up saving the world. And eventually, as you can imagine, that whole type of arrangement ended up

collapsing. It's unrealistic. And so they moved after gathering several members, including one who was a Google engineer, Amir Bohanian, who used to name Emma. In 2020,

they, at the end of 2019, they moved to Vallejo, California. There was a plot of land from an elderly man that they befriended when they were in Half Moon Bay by the water. He was very kind to them. He helped him a lot. Curtis Lint. And they lived on his lot and how they

repaid his kindness was they used the laws under California governor Gavin Newsom related to the pandemic to not pay rent for years. So they squatted on his land and it was there that they did more of these experimentations. They lived in these box trucks. So they lived a really weird lifestyle that was completely isolated for mainstream society. And in the meantime, two of the members who had joined their group and then left, didn't actually end up escaping the group's influence, and they killed themselves in very brutal ways.

The first victim jumped off a building in Poland, and then the other person ended his life very violently in Colorado. And how? A shotgun through the mouth. Yeah. So even early on, in the rationalist community at that time, this was before there were actually any murders with these deaths, there were rumors that this is Ziz and his group, there's something odd about it among some of the rationalists. Owning a home has always been the core of the American dream. It's the asset that families work their lives to build, a place of stability, security, and actual wealth. But too many homeowners right now are stuck swiping credit cards to cover groceries, paying a survival tax of 20% interest or more. So we're against debt.

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on a lot, and then people who had crossed past with them dying suddenly, taking their own lives. Yeah, those are all indications. It's not conventional. Yeah. And the story of violence through here, it just, it continues to escalate. I'll just go through a brief timeline. They were by the end eight known victims. So two people who joined the group ended up taking their own lives. They had gone to the experimentation. Allegedly, their brain hemispheres were separated through these forms of sleep deprivation. Zizians had a word for it.

They called it debucketing. They recruited more people onto this lot. There were at least six of them that were living on the property belonging to the the elderly man. And eventually he took steps to try to evict them. They didn't pay rent for years. They originally offered pay $2,000 to rent a very large part of this lot, to park all their vans where they were living out of.

And they were creating like so-called tiny homes out of these vans, which they called Slackmobiles. So they would put solar panels on them and try to make it like completely autonomous living. They rejected everything about society. So they thought they could really live autonomously completely. But he took steps to evict them finally after years of non-payment. And in 2022, November, several days before they were legally scheduled to vacate the property through an eviction,

he Curtis Lent who at that time was 79 years old was lured out to one of their trailers and he was bashed on the head his skull was smashed in he actually regained consciousness and this is according to his testimony and police reports when he stood up kind of got a sense of what just happened, so he just had a serious brain injury at this point. He was surrounded by several of the Zizians, and then he was repeatedly stabbed with swords. He was impaled through the chest. They actually stuck a long sword all the way through, and he looked down. He described about how seeing the blade was protruding through his chest. He had just very narrowly missed his vital organs. He had a gun for self-protection and he shot one of them dead injured another one and he ran out of

ammo and the third one backed off and so he very narrowly survived that he rushed to get help he was taken to hospital he ended up losing an eye criticism it was a miracle that he survived they stabbed him in the face it was in the course of the attack on the ground that he was cut all over so his was cut up and mutilated in that type of attack. So this happened in November 22, 2022. It got no attention. It was just treated as a case of tenant-related violence in California. And the reporting treated the arrested suspects as she, her people, or lay them,

and used the aliases that they are known by. So that was like an escalation of the violence. But he killed his zizian at that confrontation. He did one of them. Amir Bohanian was shot dead. And here's the very sick outcome of that. So the family of Amir Bohanian started a go-fund me and framed Bohanian as a victim of transviolence.

Anti-transviolence? Yeah, they raised tens of thousands of dollars, and the various trans organizations also eulogized Bohanian as a trans victim in this so-called trans genocide that's happening. Yes. And U.S. Senate Democrats actually honored Bohanian, amongst other names, officially in the capital as well. So that was sort of the false history. that was the narrative at that time amongst trans actors. And there was no evidence that he was shot because he was transgender. He was shot because he was stabbing an elderly man with a sword.

He was shot because there were people trying to kill Curtis Lent, he had a gun for self-protection. But of course, it's of no surprise to your audience that trans activists are able to frame every grievance as a very, very big slight in offense and attack on them. Yeah, it's like passive aggression taken to its logical terminus. I try to kill you, but I'm the victim. Yeah.

Yes, that. And literally we're, I mean, talk about gaslighting. They say things like we are living through a transgenocide. And, you know, it's one thing if it was just radical rhetoric. They, and also Zizians believe this. They written Zizian members wrote about their belief in the ongoing transgenocide. They would have been encouraging one another to take up firearms, stockpile firearms, and prepare for violence. And in fact, as we do this interview, it was just last week in Huntsville, Alabama,

of that three suspects part of a trantifa cell were federally charged in connection with stockpiling and making 3D printed firearms for the purpose of violence and murder against federal agents. Also on the same week, last week there was a trans suspect out of Washington State, an American, who was federally charged for allegedly helping the trans mass shooter that killed eight women and children in Tumblr Ridge, British Columbia, Canada. The suspect in that case, the American is named James Melody Bryant. So a lot of... The citizens is not just a meticulous detail of their history,

of a violence in extremism. It's also an indictment against this media and institution context where we are constantly lied to. So going back to what happened in Tumblr Ridge earlier this year in February when a trans shooter killed eight women and children at a property, including his home, and then at a school,

the Canadian authorities described the deceased gunmen as a female in a dress with brown hair. That was how they reported it. And they didn't release any of the pictures that the American authorities released last week showing that on the guns that were used to kill women and children were trans pride symbols. So the people that were slaughtered in Canada

were literally killed at the barrel of trans pride. And these were facts that the Canadian authorities omitted. And it was only because an American allegedly helped in the planning of that provided money that this type of information came through in the criminal complaint. But that is just emblematic of the lies that all of us are subjected to when it comes to hiding and obscuring the truths about transviolence. So going back to Zizians, they allegedly attempted murder on this man. And then this is 2022. I'm speaking to you now towards in late 2026.

None of the two suspects in that case have been convicted of anything. And trial hasn't happened yet. The trial hasn't happened? No, the trial hasn't happened. They ran the man through the sword because they didn't want to pay rent and no one's going on trial? So the Zizians are, one thing they're brilliant at is learning the rules and using the rules against you. So they used every tactic they could think of to delay the case, delay the case, year after year after year. Curtis Flint was 179 when he was attacked.

So he's getting very old. By 2025 last year, now he's in his 80s at his property. You know, over years he left the property, but then eventually he returned. You know, people who live through traumatic experiences, sometimes still kind of revert back to the environments where maybe the violence had happened because they think enough time was past, say, you know, the two suspects were still in custody at that time. He likely had no idea the extent of how this group was much larger than just the two people who were in custody. So this is how easy it was for Ziz to escape.

He was found by law enforcement responding to the shooting. death of Borhanian as well as the attempted murder of Curtis Lent. They took him to the police station and while Ziz was waiting to be questioned in like the lobby area, he just pretended to be unconscious. He just closed his eye and collapsed in his chair. So these law enforcement officers thinking that there's a medical emergency send them off to hospital to be checked out. They didn't send a police officer with him. They didn't place them under formal arrests. So once he was in the hospital, he regained consciousness and just slipped out and then disappeared and then became a fugitive completely. He was gone for years and he would reemerge several years later in

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your hockey equipment locker, your recording studio. We make a Chevrolet, but you make it a Chevy. Discover yours at Chevrolet.ca. So the elderly man is almost murdered, impaled on a sword, blinded in one eye. Ziz, the leader of the group, escapes from the hospital after faking a medical emergency. and what happened to that. So that wasn't the first time he faked a scenario that allowed him to help escape. So there was, and this is getting a bit into the weeds, but I just, I bring it up just to show like how insane the story was and how badly law enforcement effed up.

So before that, Ziz had faked his death through pretending to have drowned. in the waters, in the Bay Area. In official court declarations, one written by Amir Emma Borhanian, who at that time was still alive, and another one written by his sister, Naomi Lesotho, they testified, or they declared officially

that he had fallen off the boat that they were on. And there was a huge air and water search effort involving all these different departments and agencies all across the Bay. like all hands on deck to try to save him. They didn't find him. And so there was this belief that he had been dead and that the body hadn't been found yet. And then he was found by law enforcement in Vallejo, California after this brutal attack.

So there was already another pending felony cases against this involving a Zizian protest in Westminster Woods, where they allegedly donning robes and masks had created a hostage situation where children at the camp thought that there was an active shooter situation. So they were facing a whole bunch of charges related to that. And then this faked his death. There was a warrant out for his arrest at that time. This is 22. and then when he was found in Vallejo, apparently no police officer ran the record on him to see if they had any active warrant.

So he wasn't arrested at that time. They just sent him off to the hospital. And of course, he had a chance to escape. And then when he would reemerge again, it was in the context of an investigation into a double murder that had happened in Delaware County, Pennsylvania. on New Year's Eve at the very end of 2022, involving the victims there were the parents of one of the members,

Michelle Zyko. So the Zizian's groups were, even though he had Ziz had escaped and left California, there was still active recruiting, and the group was growing and people were joining across the U.S. How and why was this couple killed, the parents of the Zizian member? On what is believed to be New Year's Eve 2022, and this is according to the police report,

a car pulled up at their home at night. Individual or individuals could be seen going in according to a neighbor's ring camera footage, and there's some yelling that occurs inside the house. and then two figures I've seen leaving the property going to a car and driving off. Those individuals could not be definitively identified on that blurry ring camera footage. Several days later, during a welfare check, because the elderly Richard and Rita were taking care of Rita's mother, who was very old at that time, and they weren't showing up to just.

check-in on her. So somebody called for a welfare check. And so state police, Pennsylvania state police, came to the property, went up and found the two bodies in pools of blood in Michelle Zyko's former childhood bedroom. They had me shot execution style in the head. In that case was from murders in 2022. It was only just a few months ago. that finally Michelle Zyko was charged with the murder of her parents. However, at the press conference,

the prosecutor said that Michelle Zyko was not alone. But he stops short of saying who she was with. We do know that there's video of two figures being seen, leaving that property on the time that it's believed that Richard and Rita were executed. But Ziz has never been charged. with attempted murder. After the double homicide, Michelle Zyko became a person of interest, and then she was questioned, not charged, let go, and disappeared. She was with another Zizian at that time, Daniel Blank. Is she trans too? Yes. She is a woman who, biological woman, who uses the name

Jamie or Alex and at various times has used different pronouns including they them. What happened to the elderly man who got the sword run through them? I'm jumping through quite a large timeline now, like a decade of all this. So it may get a little bit confusing as I'm describing because it's involving different geographic regions in many different characters at this point. What people need to know is that, so Curtis Lent has survived the attempted assassination He was blinded in one eye, wore an eye patch, and eventually returned to his property. He had spent a long time away, but against the urging of his children return,

he wanted to live out the final years on this property that he bought, and he lived in trailer, and he was used to it, and he liked it, he missed it, he came back, it was a mistake. In January 2025, somebody was waiting in the shadows for him outside that property, And when he pulled in, that person went up with a blade and repeatedly stabbed him. And according to witnesses, Boldest head back and slid his throat. And he bled out. He died there on the spot. So at that time, he was 82. Was he ever able to testify against the original assailants?

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Zizian was arrested. Yes. And then after that, so in total now, all of that, that's total of eight victims of this group. As of this interview, not a single one has been convicted. Ziz himself is in federal custody in Philadelphia. He's only in charge with a federal crime of being a fugitive in possession of firearms. So this story kind of documents this whole process of how they were, what happened during the times they were fugitives, the bases that they had established across multiple states.

and I traveled to where they had lived formally. So I went to the Bay Area. And I went to North Carolina, where their last established hideout base was. And I got to visit the property. And let me tell you, I'm not a spiritual, religious person, but when I was there, I was Latin,

I felt really unsubtle. I felt like I would describe as an energy in that type of space because you can see how they lived their lives. And I found, for example, some of their clothes, and this is part of what makes the Zizians really scary, is that they were always dressed in black, very similar to the Antifa Black Block, Anarchus that I've encountered a lot. I found their clothes, I found their hair, and they had all these, and I found remnants of their so-called lab or workstations where they were building things and doing things on one another.

And in the book, part of the big reveal is a very large section in the book of pictures that have never been revealed before, the hideout bases, pictures of the Zizians in their past. And part of the big investigation here for me was making sure that every single person and associate is identified by their birth name. How hard is that to get their names? It's easier once somebody's been charged with a crime, but there's lots of people in the Zizian circles who have never been formally accused of a crime. So they're only known by the aliases that they use online and screen names

and such. And this is actually part of a wider issue encounter to my reporting on transviolence, is that a lot of times it's in the absence of booking photos being released. And more and more police departments in agencies are not releasing mugshots. So you have the name, but in most liberal jurisdictions they've adopted laws that make it extremely easy to change one's identity it's literally just one document that you file in the court

and you get a legal name change and that process can really obscure for example in my crime reporting the criminal history of certain suspects because now they've adopted a new name and simultaneously making it harder even as it becomes easier to change your name

to get their mugshots. Exactly. So back to Portland. So we're seeing a theme here, which is a flight from physical reality. We don't want you know what the physical reality of anything is. So Oregon was one of the states that actually did where law enforcement was allowed to release mugshots.

So people might remember that I was releasing the anti-film mugshots back in 2020 from all the nights of riding. And it was true there that I was able to find out, individuals who are trans because then a photo of the suspect then you can link to like for example their social media. If you only had a name it's harder to identify

that this is a person's social media. Oregon Democrats, in reaction to my reporting, and actually those who testified at the state capital in Oregon in 2020 brought up my reporting said that through

my work that they were subjected to allege harassment and things like that after being identified. So then Oregon Democrats passed a law banning all law enforcement agencies

in the state from releasing booking photos in the absence of a conviction, which on paper sounds okay, you know, don't release their picture until they've convicted. But in Oregon,

where Democrats have had control for decades in influence on the courts, not very many criminal suspects, particularly those involved in political violence, ever end up getting committed, speaking as somebody who's been the victim of that violence. Well, this is the youth wing of their party,

so they protect it assiduously. I remember those mugshots that you released very well six years ago, and the first thing I thought, well, the first thing I felt after fear and evulsion was sympathy because there was something wrong with almost every person was on their, faces. They all looked defective in some way. They all looked like there were something really, these were not healthy people at all. They all looked

like crazy and unhealthy. I think you would have that same type of feeling if you look at the mug shots of the Zizzians and that I was able to, there's a certain look. Like don't go outside, filled with weird chemicals. These are just not robust looking specimens. They look like they're dying actually. Yeah, I mean, this. Zizzisians, the members, I dive into their autobiographical backgrounds, and some of them are alleged to have gone through some abuse. There's also confusion because all of them have alleged abuse as well. It's kind of, it's a pattern by a lot of trans activists, and particularly the Zizians. They would recast normal childhood experiences as extremely abusive situations. involving their families and then use that to justify why their parents and families were evil and why they were due justice. The parasite, the killing of one's parents was actually another

part of this is in ideology that made them different from mainstream rationality. They pulled in all these types of grievance politics. There's a thinker in the past who used the term wound collecting, and I forget his name. But that's what the Zizians did. Well, sure. And the more that you believe you're the victim left empathy you have for others, and that's true for nations as well as people.

But if you... I mean, it's like classic narcissism. Like, if you think you are the victim, you don't feel bad when you hurt other people. Can I describe how Zizzians were actually, how Zizz himself was finally caught? Yeah. So in their latter years,

so I talked about the double homicide of the parents in Pennsylvania, and then there was the brook slitting and killing of Curtis Lint in the second attack on him, and then there was a shooting murder of the Border Patrol agent. So by that point, then, it was eight people who were dead. Ziz, Michelle Zico, and another member, Daniel Blank, were still on the run somewhere,

and there was a multi-state search for them last year in January and February. And when they were finally found, they were found in a super rural area in Allegheny County, Western Maryland, in the middle, essentially a snowstorm. So they were hiding out in their box trucks. And in the videos, when they're being arrested, the police body camera video, they keep saying, I haven't done anything wrong.

And I believe that that's really, that's kind of really. summarizes the Zizine's belief. If it turns out that all the state and federal accusations against them are true, and that process is still playing out now, nobody's actually had justice yet. But if all the accusations are proven, the Zizzines really do believe that they have done nothing wrong, because in their worldview, this effective altruist view about maximizing good, it is for them the rational decision to take take out this person, kill that person, murder that person if it gets in the way. I mean, they viewed themselves as really the vanguard of saving the world.

Anybody who gets in their way, who tries to imprison them, who tries to extract money from them, take him out, take her out, their due vengeance. And what showed me that this is more than just an isolated case of a fringe group becoming violent, is that with some of the actions that the group allegedly took, the murder and such, they received praise from mainstream leftists and trans activists, who were sympathetic, for example, of the Border Patrol officer being murdered. So why was the Border Patrol, I should have asked you, my apologies, why was the Border Patrol officer murdered?

So two Zizine members, Felix Balkholt, who used the name Ophelia, a German national, and Teresa Youngbloot, she was the youngest member at that time, 20 years old last year from Seattle. They had been observed acting suspiciously in Vermont. For example, they pulled into a motel, and they were dressed all in black and wearing tactical gears and had firearms with them.

So in context, in rural, in the northeastern kingdom, really rural area of Vermont. It's not unusual for people to carry a handgun. You're out in the woods, you're out in the country. But the fact that they were masked in black and wearing tactical gear, that did make some of the hotel staff question what was going on and made the decision to call law enforcement. And when law enforcement, federal law enforcement responded, because this is very close to the Canadian border where they were found, they were completely evasive. They were let go.

They weren't accused of any crimes at that point. And they went to another motel. And when they were driving on the road, very close to the Canadian border, it's unclear where they were going ultimately, but they had packed up all their stuff again and they departed after they had been questioned. They were pulled over by a U.S. Border Patrol officer,

David, Christopher Malind and according to the investigation once he approached her vehicle and asked him to come out he was fired upon and shot dead on the spot he had backup there was a shootout Felix Balchol shot dead

Teresa Youngblood was injured in the arm but she survived and she is the only one who's been federally charged with murder. The way the story concludes in my writing is bleak. I mean, you can say a lot about the citizens, but one thing they're not

is stupid, and they were very strategic with their decision-making. And it took state prosecutors in Pennsylvania in nearly four years to charge Michelle Zyko. And they, at this point, don't have apparently enough evidence to charge anybody else. Ziz himself has to date never been charged with murder or attempted murder.

Even the felonies that he's facing in Maryland when they were finally found and arrested after the manhunt. They essentially amount to firearm possession offenses. And he doesn't have a criminal conviction history. He has a whole bunch of outstanding cases, no convictions. So we really could see an outcome where he's zizz and the other zizzians are let out. In fact, the Maryland state case against ziz, Michelle's icon Daniel Blink, was suspended recently for reasons that are unclear. So one of the zizzians, Daniel Blank, is completely out free right now. and there are people online who continue to be radicalized by Ziz and his writings.

So what's the appeal? Why would, if the pitch is we're going to cut your brain in half and deprive you of sleep in order to do that, it's hard to see who joins a group like that. Like what is the pitch that they're making? So for people who are drawn into the rationalist and effective altruist community, they're not normal people like you and I. They really view that all of the world is facing this existential risk of being completely destroyed by AI. We must do something.

So under that sort of environment with several other variables, such as many of the people who have been attracted to the designs are autistic. Several of them are documented diagnosis. Asperka's syndrome. Their thinking is not like normal people. It's much more systematic, ordered, and about using various mathematical models to map out the decision-making and what they believe are the best outcomes. So when you have that with then sort of a grooming process by Zizz and Zizians and his writings of pulling in certain people, you do eventually get some people who are drawn in and believe they can be heroes. And if it takes killing one

person to save the animals on earth, the billions of life form, the billions of shrimp that are out there, they're just using a calculation model. One life versus the life of billions. and life of billions includes all these animals. All the prongs. Yeah, exactly. So that's the type of people that have been drawn, and you have to think of them within that context. People have been so damaged by modern technology

that their brains don't work and they lack empathy toward people. Yes, and another thing about decisions, like stepping back and looking at, at sort of the broader picture. I also write about, there's a chapter in here called The Rise of the Trans Killers. So this is one example of alleged trans killers carrying out a campaign of violence across the United States. But in the past decade, there have been so many others. And in fact, one difficulty was finding contemporaneous reporting at that time. They even described some of them as trans.

and because it didn't it would refer to them by the preferred pronouns and preferred names so you get this completely false impression that these incidents are not involving trans people when in fact they are

and as part of my research for this book I went to Nashville Tennessee and I went to the church where there was the mass shooting attack by Audrey Hale a trans shooter who used to name Hayden

a trans shooter who used a named Aden and the FBI release scans of the journals so-called manifesto left behind by this writer and you can see how she was completely radicalized by this inability

to accept the reality of who she was and she took it out on children at the school and so like standing outside of there and it was important for me to go because I really I wanted to go to some of these places where the trans violence actually happened, going to Vallejo, seeing the area on the ground where Curtis Lent died, bled out. It's, the Zizians is about this whole, not just about the trans death cult and all their secrets, their human experimentation, their victims.

but also what we're witnessing and experiencing across the world of rising transviolence that's being completely denied, denied by institutions like in Canada, denied by law enforcement through them erroneously giving us the preferred names, preferred pronouns, even preferred sex of suspects and criminals and convicts through the courts. I mean, the Zizzians were able to drag out their case for years until Curtis Lent was assassinated by making accusations in court filings and civil claims, alleging that their civil rights as trans people were being violated. And they were backed up in this by organized trans groups? They were backed up by trans groups, leftist attorneys. they were even soliciting for donations from people to pay for their legal fund.

So there's this whole... Did they get them? I don't know how much money that they were able to get, but they did get legal representation, private retain legal representation, and that doesn't come cheap. Amazing. How are they seen in Silicon Valley? Does this seem to be sort of like a dirty secret

that a lot of the rationalist and effective altruists in Silicon Valley. want to talk about because it came from them from their community. Of course, I need a caveat that the EA effective altruist community, rations community is diverse in the sense that as belief systems, it can be apolitical in the sense that it's not partisan. You can have those who are libertarian or maybe even conservative, and those who are on the radical left as well. and the Zizian's beliefs are not widely endorsed by the communities there.

But at the same time, I wonder if there's any sort of retrospection about what that type of environment produces. I mean, you would think it would be in the interest of trans groups to distance themselves from trans murderers, but they haven't. Not only have they not, in fact, some of them even celebrate and support the actions of convicted trans killers. For example, earlier this year, a man who uses name Mia, sorry, named Bailey, was convicted and sentenced in Utah for the killing of his parents. and in the police interrogation video that was publicly released as part of that investigation, he talked about how he didn't believe that his mother was supportive enough of his transition that she had allegedly contacted the hospital before he was supposed to have some type of trans surgery, informing them that her son was dealing with a lot of issues.

Typically, people show up for a self-castration or, quote, dealing with a lot of issues. I think that's fair. He shot his parents dead and attempted to kill his brother as well, shot through the door, but the Browns didn't hit his brother. So he was sentenced this year to decades in prison for that double murder. And as part of my research, I track what leftist activists say online and what I saw from a lot of trans activists, the trans-antifa-aligned type people, I call them Trantifa, that's the term I use.

They thought that what Mia Bailey did was justified and right. They believe that those who are not supportive of one's transgender identity should be limited. That's a lot of their view. And with the ongoing criminal case against Tyler Robinson, and according to investigators, he was motivated to assassinate Charlie Cook out of love and support for his trans-fury partner. There are trans activists online who have been highly sympathetic to that. And so week after week, there's cases of trans-identified individuals who are being arrested in charge,

and it's getting really no media attention for a number of reasons. One, a lot of people aren't even aware that the suspect is trans. And two, in legacy media, there's people essentially train and cover up. I mean, if you read the AP Style Guide, and that's the guidance for print journalists, I was trained in AP Style, their recent style guides have all been updated to where you don't use terms like biological female or biological male. You don't mention that somebody is transgender unless it's somehow really relevant to the story. You use their preferred name and their preferred pronouns. You pretend it's all real.

You go along with a lie. And mislead people. And so the Sisyon is a very comprehensive telling of what that group did and the truth of who they are. If you read the legacy media reporting on the Sisyans, and there hasn't been very many, but it's referring to Ziz, she, her, and this woman who wanted to just save the world from AI risk, and somehow in the end,

they're now being accused of all this violence. Some of the reporting has been oddly, actually not oddly, it's predictable, sympathetic to some of the Zizians. If you're concerned about AI risk, it's because you'd want people to be hurt by AI. So, I mean, consider the irony of murdering people who were not even connected

to the development of AI, because you're worried about AI. It doesn't make any sense at all. And by the way, these are all people who directly or indirectly have contributed to the rise of AI because they work in Silicon Valley. So, like, they're the perpetrators.

They're sort of an adjacent analogy or anecdote that I can draw that. I think maybe viewers might understand a bit more. So think about... Consider, like, last year, the death threats that... Elon Musk got after there were various cuts to USAid. And that was actually quite,

there was a significant number of leftists who were actively calling for his murder. And in their view, he should be murdered because his agenda with cuts in the federal government is causing people to die. So therefore, he should be stopped, he should be killed. So it's just very simply this sort of this in their calculation, and this is not a fringe belief amongst radical leftists, is somebody who is harming our agenda should be taken out. Are they all atheists?

Any of these people believe in a god of some kind? The Zizians and the rationalist and effective altruists are atheists. However, what I discovered in the course of my reporting, investigations is that Dezisians took on various occult-like elements, such as cursing people with spells and hexes. That was a surprise to me, but the more I thought about... It's also obviously witchcraft to me. Well, initially, I was surprised when I found out evidence of this that had been documented, but then I thought about all the Antifa militants, that I've reported on, who professed to be radical anarchists and atheists,

will embrace witchcraft and pagan beliefs as well. So there's this connection between... Well, they're being motivated by demons. So that's all real, in my opinion. So I'm not surprised at all. I am surprised that two years into this administration, we still haven't seen a systematic attempt to understand what Antifa is and who pays for it. Where's that? I actually think the administration has done a good job.

I'll name out sort of the things I've been taken by the federal government. A lot of people forget or don't remember what's happened. So in the autumn of last year, Donald Trump announced that his administration would be treating Antifa as domestic. terrorist. It was a big executive order. In executive order is just a statement. He had said something very similar in 2020 when the riots were happening and no action was taken at that time.

But from there, then the State Department prescribed banned for European anti-folk groups. So making them designated foreign terrorist organizations, meaning that if you provide support for them, you can be criminally prosecuted in the United States. That was the first time an international Antifa group had ever been prescribed by the U.S. government. And then there was the White House Antifa Roundtable, which I was very fortunate to be part of that, where I spoke to the president and members of this cabinet about the threat of Antifa and left-wing violent extremism in the United States. And more recently, there was a international summit held.

by the State Department in D.C. on the threat and rise of left-wing terrorism. And that had officials from dozens of countries around the world to participate. And the State Department then also prescribed some more Antifa-aligned groups, in particular, an Italian one that provided the online infrastructure for dozens of Antifa websites where they post tactics and strategies for attacks, targets of attack, claims of responsibility for terror attacks. So the federal government has done a lot. I think, of course, they can always do more.

Has anyone been charged for sending money to Antifa? For sending money, I'll tell you what they've been prosecuted. Because if I gave money to Hamas or Hezbollah, I'd get a FBI raid at my house. What makes it difficult in the law is the fact that Antifa is a movement and ideology and it's made up of organizations, groups, and cells. It's like all of the above. It's kind of like think of it how you couldn't prosecute somebody, for example, for donating to a neo-Nazi cause.

Like, that's not a crime. But for example, if they donated to a group that was involved in criminal activity, you could be prosecuted. Well, but if you designated it, I mean, I think the designation is the point. So, like, all these foreign groups have been designated terror organizations

and therefore anybody who's, money winds up in their hands, gets indicted. You've been about a million indictments. Seems like you could do that for Antifa. What's hard about Antifa in terms of the criminal prosecution side of it is that most of the groups in the American context are American and they operate entirely domestically. They might read materials from the European groups and read and learn tactics in terms of like the radical material in text.

But in terms of like coordination on an international level, like money, weapons trafficking, things like that, we don't really see that happen. That happens domestically at the U.S. level. So there have been particular groups who have been completely dismantled. There was a really big case actually earlier this year in Texas, a federal prosecution. It was the first time that accused Antifa members of the North Texas Antifa cell have been charged with providing material support to terrorism, attempted murder, and many, many other felonies. And it was stemming from a shooting on a ICE facility in Alvarado, Texas on the 4th of July in 2024.

So there were 16 people who were prosecuted. So it was not only the cell, but also those who were accused to providing aid, like helping the ringleader to escape from the scene of the attack. They were all federally charged. And seven of them pleaded guilty ahead of trial. Some of them flipped and provide testimony. And nine went to trial and all of them were convicted. Collectively, they're facing around 500 years in prison for all of them. The ringleader of the group was sentenced to 100 years in prison.

And they were charged with providing me to, they were convicted of providing material support to terrorism, among other crimes. This case really received not much media attention at all, but it was the first Antifa federal prosecution and convictions in U.S. history. After that, there have been 15. In U.S. history? Yes. It was the first time that individuals of the U.S. government accused of being part of an Antifa group have been...

After everything, all those people killed in 2020, this was the first time. When the federal government is determined and also has popular support, you can see what the full force of the government really looks. like. I do understand the feeling that we're not seeing those type of resources and tools being used to the same extent by far-left anti-government violent extremists. I understand that frustration at the same time. With my speaking to individuals and travel to D.C. to talk about this stuff, the barriers that they face legally, in terms of prosecuting Antifa militants is really different compared to some of these other cases where we've seen, for example, on the Biden administration with that DOJ was able to do.

I think, you know, in the case of Texas wasn't the only one, there are still ongoing federal prosecutions now against those accused of being part of the Antifa cells in Minnesota that were involved in organizing the anti-government violence and attacks on federal agents and officials back earlier this year against ICE. So there have been 15 who have been federally prosecuted and are accused in charging documents of being part of an Antifa network. So there are things being done. Of course, we want to see more.

We've seen, at least from the president, talk about the truth of what he sees and what, if any of us as I, sees the rise of transviolence. and but with all the laws that are out there and the legal protections like the violent

far less really know how to exploit the laws to protect themselves and I think it's it's a fee and task for the federal government to really

dismantle Antifa because at the end of the day even if they criminally prosecute the cells that exist from coast to coast. And there are a lot of them that are involved in criminal activity, by the way. It's very easy for new cells and autonomous groups to form

because the ideology is spreading and is growing and it has legitimacy from a lot of Democrats. I was very reluctant to come to that view. For a long time, I thought that maybe Democrats which is slightly misguided with their rhetorical and legal support for Antifa criminal suspects. But actually, in many, we've had now, I've had now 10 years of reporting on left-wing political violence

in instances where suspects are carrying out violent attacks and still garners support of Democrats in power, like in Portland, for example, in many, many other jurisdictions. My only conclusion is they are completely... with using these militant Sussar food soldiers. So the Antifa ideology has a lot of support. There's a lot of money as well. You know, there's questions about money.

It comes really through people who donate to what they call mutual aid causes, which is essentially turns for like projects that provide support in one way or the other. It can be in the form of housing or food, or most importantly, legal defense. They have access to a lot of money from rich donors, giving, and large groups of people donating small amounts. I mean, the amount of money that was raised, for example, the Texas Antifa defendants, they raised significant funds.

They've had huge support in left-wing media, particularly after the convictions. All this reporting was treating them as people who were sentenced to decades in prison based on ideology, when none of them were willing to report out the facts of what we learned at the trial because of all the members who had flipped and provided evidence for the prosecution, the type of organization that happened, the planning, the training, the gathering of dozens of firearms where they met at the safe house before the shooting attack.

And that's just one particular anecdote, but it's emblematic of how left-wing violence and transviolence, at least four members, by the way, of that Texas anti-phosol or drones, they are completely protected by many people with money and in positions of power who have the ability to influence. That's obvious. May I ask you one last question? Is there, did you run across in your reporting any evidence that the use of cross-sex hormones inspires violence?

There's a whole chapter in my book looking at all the academic literature. The physiological effect of the stuff. seeking to answer this particular question. I'm going to say that people who want to know what the academic literature says should read my book, but to summarize, there hasn't been enough research that's been done. Seems like it would scramble your eggs to have cross-sex hormones injected into your body, no? I will say that some of the limited research that has been done has shown that in polling of people who have been prone to radicalization, one of the predictors of that particularly violent radicalization has been a transgender identity.

And this was research that was done out of Canada, by the way. Very few people know about some of this academic peer-reviewed research. But it's very limited because, one, academics who seek to ask these type of research questions are not supported in their academic departments. It's all captured. You're very familiar with the status. of academia. Two, the funding for this type of research is not there. And three, those who dare in academia to transgress against transgender ideology get absolutely destroyed. Academic after academic after academic has been hounded out for asking some of these questions about this phenomenon of

transgenderism. Just the fact that we're seeing a huge explosion in people in the last five to ten years suddenly identifying as drones when the numbers before were tiny. Like what are the questions behind all of this? It needs academic research, it's not happening. There's been some, and I dive into that research into this book. Well, I mean, hormone surges make you crazy. That's called the teenage years or menopause

or anytime radical reduction testosterone levels and men affect their thinking and behavior. So it just stands to reason that, massive doses of the wrong hormones, who knows what that does to you? There's been some research on the effects of mood through cross-sex hormone therapy and transgender-identifying individuals. You would not be surprised to hear that increased aggression is something that's been observed. So you think?

Ask anyone who's undergoing treatment for prostate cancer, where very often testosterone levels are lowered. essentially chemically castrated as a man. Yeah, and for medical reasons. I mean, it's voluntary and it may be worth it. But talk to the guys who go through it totally changes you. So, like, I think we should think about the physiological effects of all these chemicals. And also ask questions about what happens when that is merged with an ideology that tells people to collect wounds and grievances and to take up firearms to get revenge.

Narcissism makes you violent, no doubt. Andy, thank you for this. Good luck. I'm sure you've thought through the security implications of writing this book. I'm sure they're real. So, Godspeed. Thank you.