The Tucker Carlson Show - Bill Gates, Truth About Vaccines, & Big Pharma’s Plot to Destroy Doctors Who Question ”The Science”

Episode Date: September 8, 2025

Post-Nazi medicine is based on informed consent, so naturally Dr. Kirk Moore allowed his patients to decide whether or not they wanted the Covid shot. For this, federal prosecutors tried to put him in prison for life. (00:00) Reacting to Donald Trump’s Message to the Pharmaceutical Companies (10:40) How Dr. Kirk Moore Spotted the Covid Scam So Quickly (21:17) The Censorship Campaign to Silence Good Doctors (31:31) Bill Gates, Anthony Fauci, and the Suspicious Push for Vaccines (42:24) Why Dr. Kirk Moore Told His Patients Not to Take the Covid Vaccine (50:49) Why Dr. Kirk Moore Decided to Administer Fake Vaccines (1:09:32) The Ridiculous Indictments (1:22:32) The Moment Dr. Kirk Moore Found Out He Might Go to Jail for Life Paid partnerships with: Eight Sleep: Get $350 off the new Pod 5 Ultra at https://EightSleep.com/Tucker PureTalk: Go to https://PureTalk.com/Tucker to and save 50% off your first month. Cozy Earth: Go to https://CozyEarth.com/Tucker & use code TUCKER for up to 40% off joggers, pants, shirts - everything. TCN: Watch the full series as soon as it premieres: tuckercarlson.com/the911files Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So thank you for doing this. I think you're a hero. I just want to say that this is not going to be an objective interview. I want to thank you for everything you've done and I want to hear a story, but I want to begin with a statement from the president just out now. This is Donald J. Trump on Truth Social, and I'm quoting, it is very important that the drug companies justify the success of their various COVID drugs. Many people think they're a miracle that saved millions of lives.

Others disagree. With the CDC now being ripped apart. over this question, I want the answer and I want it now in all caps. I've been shown information from Pfizer and others. It is extraordinary, but they never seem to show those results to the public. Why not? They go off the next hunt and let everyone rip themselves apart, including Bobby Kennedy Jr. and the CDC, trying to figure out the success or failure of the drug company's COVID work. They show me great numbers and results, but they don't seem to be showing them to many others. And I want them to show them now to CDC and the public and clear up this mess one

nor the other. I hope that Operation Warp Speed was brilliant, as many say it was. If not, we all want to know about it and why. Thank you for your attention to this very important matter, President, DJT. Wow. What does that mean? That's a total reversal from what, I can't say it's a total reversal. I'm really, I'm encouraged by those words, significantly encouraged. It's been a struggle with this whole operation warp speed and with what we know. Yes.

Being physicians practicing. Being physicians practicing, but not all physicians practicing. We talked about this earlier, you know, where a very small percentage of us actually, quote, unquote, no. Okay? Yes. And but to hear that coming from him where he may actually be questioning the Operation Warp Speed numbers that were put behind him and that were given to him before is a really, really interesting twist. It's pretty unbelievable that he has to send something like this out, considering that companies like Pfizer and Moderna and their executives are all billionaires because. of federal tax dollars.

So, like, these are not really, I mean, they're publicly traded companies, but they're not in some kind of private sector business. They are government contractors. We're forced to take their products. We have no recourse of those products hurt us because they have full immunity. And so they're getting rich from our tax dollars,

but we don't get to see the numbers. Like, maybe someone should go to jail, like, right away. What numbers is he seeing that he says have been really impressive numbers that we're not seeing? Well, this burla, the veterinarian burla guy? Right. who I think is not a, he's a vet, right? He's a vet, correct.

And you're a surgeon, but they try to put you in prison for the rest of your life. But Burla is now a billionaire because he is involved in a scam where U.S. tax dollars go into his pocket, and there's nothing we can do about it. Right. And if you complain about it, by the way. Then they shut you down and censor you and they try to arrest you. So this Borla creep, this ghoul has been showing up at the way. He's been at the White House a bunch, I think.

Right. and he's been spinning. Well, and Donald Trump has called him out saying, hey, this is my best friend or not my best friend, but this is a really good friend of mine, you know, Borla and, you know, and kind of praised what they've done. Yeah, how about I call you when my dog has puppies, okay?

Like, what are you doing? What is this? Anyway, sorry, sorry, sorry. So, but Trump's position up until apparently this morning, as far as I know, has been Operation Warf Speed, which he saved millions of lives. Saves millions of lives.

It was like Jonas Salk's polio vaccine. And so this does. So the last line in here is it was, it was brilliant. As many say it was, if not, we want to know what happened. And that's, like I said, that is the first time that I've heard him maybe somewhat question the effectiveness or, you know, what actually was behind Operation Warp Speed. You know, Operation Warp Speed was a DoD operation. It was run by a general, okay, General Perna. And, you know, there's a lot of evidence out there,

and Sasha Latipova and Catherine Watt, and a lot of people have put out information that essentially the DOD is who developed these jabs, these COVID vaccines. And then they, in turn, asked Pfizer and Moderna to slap their label on it for money and then distribute them because it was a military operation in terms of this whole...

What's the U.S. military doing in my health care? Look, there's all kinds of agencies that are out there. And they have all these acronyms, Asper, Barta, DARPA. I couldn't begin to tell you what they stand for. But it's crazy how much it was a change in biological warfare. When we back, I think I want to say in the 70s, when, chasing or biological warfare became a crime and we said we were going to get rid of everything that we do and all of these biological weapons and all of these things here that we could use

to kill people by you know with clouds of you know kind of germs okay lime disease Lyme disease yeah excuse me sorry oh sorry but when so when we change when we made we actually passed a law it's a federal law that says we're not a lot allowed to do that. Yeah, yeah. We signed the convention, I think. Yes. But what happened is just like the scientists from Operation Paperclip went to the tobacco industry, and then from the tobacco industry to the food industry, the scientists that went from these biological weapons development programs went to essentially an umbrella organization that was used to combat biological warfare. So they used it under the auspices of, we are going to develop these things as an antidote or as a

treatment for the potential bio-weapons that somebody else. Yeah, we're going to keep our research going to defend ourselves against the Russian bio program. Right. And that's why we need all these biolabs in Ukraine and shut up conspiracy theorist if you ask about them. Right, right. I will say as someone who smoked for many years and also got Lyme disease, that I got a lot more out of smoking than I did at a Lyme disease. Okay, so those were like, I guess, two products of government programs,

and one was a lot better than the other from my perspective. So, okay, I just had to, I want a perspective of this. So that was my impression. Yeah, I mean, you said that came out this morning. I had not seen that. Yeah, I know. Everything up until this point was, you know, Operation WarpStreed save lives. Operation WarpSpeed, save millions of lives.

You know, it was the best thing, you know, the best thing that ever had. happened. I'm so proud of what we did and, you know, and everything else. And like you said, he's been pushing, you know, the Pfizer and Moderna CEOs and everything else. And what a great job they did and everything else. I'm really interested to see what numbers it is that they're showing them that they can't show the public. We could fix all of this just by stripping them of their immunity. I don't. Do you have blanket immunity in your job? So I don't have blanket immunity. Oh, you don't. I don't either, actually. So I get sued or whatever. Look. So why do they have blanket immunity?

Well, one, vaccines have blanket immunity from the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act, and then the PEP Act in 2005. So the PEP Act in 2005 further extended that, that when they declare a state of emergency, then everybody, there's no liability. So now everything done under EUA has no liability. And as a matter of fact, the law even says that our judicial branch can't even review that law. So how is that constitutional and how has that not been challenged? We're talking 20 years here, where we had a legislative body in 2005 and signed by the president, George Bush at the time, that basically said that anything that's passed under emergency use authorization has no liability and the judicial branch of our government can't review it.

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And there's literally nothing we can do to them. Yeah. Okay. Okay. None of this is. I'm glad you figured that out. It's dawning slowly. I knew that I committed some kind of blaspheme, but I wasn't exactly sure against whom,

but it's against Albert Burla, the vet. And I am going to call him next time my dog gets distemperer, you know, who eats another mop. I need someone to pull this strands out. Swallows a sock or something. Excuse me. I love vets. He's a discredit to the business.

Okay, your story. You're a surgeon. You live in Utah from military family. Your dad was a test pilot, flew over 100 missions in Vietnam. So you've been around the government a lot. Obviously, you grew up in a government world. COVID happens 2020. Let's begin your story there.

So, yeah. What were you doing? What was your reaction to it? So COVID happens. I'm operating. I operate two days a week. I see patients two, three days a week. I operate Tuesday, Thursday.

I actually listen to podcasts. Probably listen to a lot of your shows. You know, 2020, I was probably listening to a lot of Dan Bongino. And, you know, and I also follow a guy that I used to do a lot of options trading with, and he used to trade his options based upon current world events. And so he was talking about the whole COVID thing. So all through January, February, and early March, you know, he's doing trades and he's talking about, you know, all of this stuff that was happening with COVID

and all of the people that were killing over in China and all the lockdowns that were happening and how it expanded into Italy and now it was into Spain and all this stuff and I had, I'm busy and so I don't have a lot of time to do a lot of my own research and look into

all of this stuff. I mean, I'm conservative by nature anyway. I mean, I'm Republican, probably more libertarian than I am Republican. But you know, I had no reason to doubt what was going on. So on March 17th, Tuesday afternoon, I get home. I must have seen something on the TV. We'd already had some lockdowns in some of the states in this country. We'd already had Italy had gone into complete lockdown in Spain. And so at that point,

again, without knowing anything anymore, I called my office manager and I said, hey, we're not going to, we're going to cancel all surgeries, we're going to close the doors. I can't risk getting sick, bringing it home to my kids. And so let's just have somebody, just have one person in the office. Let's lock the doors. Have one person there answering the phones. And so we did that on March 17th. In other words, you took it very seriously.

I did, because I didn't know anything about it. Me too. I agree. And I tell this story all the time. It wasn't 24, 36 hours that I had done a total 180, a complete 180. By Thursday morning, March, so 19th, okay, I was like, oh, my gosh, I got to open the doors back up. By this time, I'd already cancel my surgeries. I couldn't really just turn around and, you know, do everything.

So, but by that time, I realized that it was all fake. In two days? In two days. How? I got online and started reading articles. I got online and started reading about viruses and refreshing myself on microbiology. and going back to kind of basic what I felt was basic science and trying to understand, hey, how do these things work?

How does an epidemic happen? How does a pandemic happen? And then you realize that they changed the definition of pandemic some time before that so that it would apply. I realized that at the time that they declared, it wasn't the pandemic yet, but they declared some sort of kind of international emergency in like in the middle of January.

And then the WHO declared their fake PHEC, pandemic, okay, the public health emergency of international concern, okay? And that's what that stands for. I think they do this all on purpose, okay? But when you sound it out, it's fake, okay? And, you know, I realized that there actually were only 44 cases of COVID total in the whole world by the end of January. And there was one death due to that. And the one death was to, I think he was a physician, actually an ophthalmologist in China at the time. And they supposedly had isolated this. I don't know how they isolated it.

They didn't have, you know, they didn't have a test. They didn't have anything that was available for them to isolate it. So again, the whole thing just kind of started falling apart. You knew there was lying at the center. I knew there was all kinds of lying going on. And then I started, so then I started going, okay, well, what can I do about it? So I knew it was a lie, but what can I do about it? And the first huge flag to me was when we were told that as physicians, there's no treatment.

You can't treat this. Well, last I'd heard, COVID is a flu-like illness. Nausea, malaise, fever, chills, lost the taste and smell, which happened in the flu anyway. Nothing was pathonomonic, which means nothing was directly attributed only to this one disease. And so what did we use to do for the flu? Treat them symptomatically. Give them, you know, give them something for their fever, give them something for their flu symptoms, give them something for the sinus infection, give them something for the sinus infection,

give them something for whatever it is that, you know, whatever their problems were, if they're having diarrhea, then you give them something to help with their diarrhea, whatever their symptoms were, you would treat those symptoms. Well, why weren't we treating those symptoms? We just weren't. It was like all of a sudden there's no treatment. So can I ask, I mean, and it's especially relevant to you, so the rest of us just trying to figure out what the hell's going on.

You're a doctor in practice, clinical practice. You're seeing patients, you're a surgeon, and you're a licensed physician, how do you get that guidance? How do you know that? Like who tells you we just don't have treatment for this? Well, I mean, the media was telling us we don't have treatment for it, right?

And Fauci was telling us that there's no treatment for it and just wait till you're turning, you know, you turn blue in the face, you can't get up, you're, you know, on death's doorstep and call an ambulance and then we'll treat you and we'll take care of you.

But is there a special doctor website you go to? I mean, your neighbors are probably like, hey, you're a doctor? What should I do about this COVID thing? Well, that's right. So people are calling me. Yeah. So I'm treating them the way I would have

treated any other flu-like illness. That's what I was doing. I have a lot of primary care experience. In addition to my plastic surgery, I was in the military for three years, so I took care of flight squadrons for three years. I was a primary care doc for pilots in a squadron, in addition to taking care of people in a clinic. And I moonlighted in emergency rooms at least twice a day or twice a week for 12, 24-hour shifts.

So I did that for eight years, okay? I was going back during my residency. I would leave for a weekend and I would go back to Meridian, Mississippi, and I would work from 6 p.m. on a Friday night until 10 a.m. on a. on a.m. on a. on Sunday until 10 a.m. Mississippi night. And I would work in an emergency room until 10 a.m. on Sunday and get on a flight and go back. Damn. So I did that in order to supplement my income. But it also gave me a lot of experience. And they gave me, you know, a lot more primary care experience than what we typically would have gotten out of, you know, another surgery residence or plastic surgery resident. So I just fell back on my experience. But again, I hated microbiology in medical school, okay? I despised it, didn't like it, looking at, you know, bugs in a microscope and reading. And so I always relied on the pathologist to say, hey, this is your lab test, this is what

we grew out of your microbiology sample, and then this is what it's sensitive to. And so I go, okay, well, you need that antibiotic. Here you go, okay? That was my microbiology experience through practice, okay? But I had to go back and review all that stuff. So I did. And I just got online because nothing was online back then when I was in school. But I was just able to get back on there and read articles and read journal articles and get on. I was pulling things from libraries, you know, because I have privileges at a hospital.

Or I did then. I did then. So I had access to their library. So I would send them, hey, I want to see this article. Because I would read the abstract online. I'd go, I want to read this article. So they would send me the article. And I'd usually get it within 12 to 20.

24 hours. And so that's what I was doing. I mean, I did that throughout this whole time. And I realized that there were a lot of, you know, a lot of discrepancies, let's say, and a lot of lies that I was getting out of Fauci and Burks and all the people that were, you know, that were talking about it. Every once in a while, you would hear something, you know, like a little bleep from Scott Atlas or Paul Alexander who was in the White House at that time, who were kind of like, you know, like they're on our side, I guess, where they would say, hey, this, this really isn't what's happening. So, I mean, I use the analogy a lot with what they told us about COVID with what I had a lot of experience with at that time. and that was breast cancer. So the analogy to me about no treatment for this disease was analogous to somebody coming to me as a plastic surgeon, as breast cancer surgeon, saying, hey, you have a lady here who's got a small little nodule on her breast that we've either seen on mammogram

or we've felt through a physical exam, but we're not going to do anything about that until it's a big fungating wound and it's eroded through her skin. and now you see and you can feel lymph nodes in her groin and we can do a CT scan and see, you know, that she's got metastases to her brain and to her, you know, to her lungs. That was the analogy that I was using in explaining this to people when we're telling people that there's no treatment for it.

That's when you put it that way, it's horrifying. It is horrifying. It was an absolute lie because, you know, there is treatment. We've always treated the flu, okay? Just because they supposedly found a new strain of the flu doesn't mean that you don't treat it, right? And so that led me to understanding that, hey, there's something nefarious going on here. People don't generally brag about their wireless companies, but what if you have something to brag about? Imagine that your wireless company was so great that you told random people about it.

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They've also raised almost half a million dollars to prevent veteran suicide. So they're decent people working there in a great 5G network. You get unlimited talk, tax plenty of data, just $25 a month. a month. That saves the average family over $1,000 a year. It's time to switch your wireless company, PureTalk. Go to PureTalk.com slash Tucker, save an additional 50% off your first month. Again, puretalk.com slash Tucker to make the switch today. It is wireless. You might actually brag about. But that's a, even I can understand your reasoning. Yeah. Why didn't 90% of doctors say, hey, we're in the treatment business. That's what we do.

and all of a sudden they're telling us on CNN we're not allowed to treat this illness, that's a problem. Yeah, it's actually more like 99%. It's a very small percentage of us. Yeah, I've never been to the doctor again, and I'm not going. Because they so disgraced themselves, and I would very much like to see a lot of doctors stand trial for that. But that'll never happen, of course. But anyway, but why didn't, I mean, that's so obvious. So because they shut us down.

I got kicked off of Facebook. I get kicked off of Twitter. I was, you know, posting articles of things that I was reading that at the time I could find. I've since gone back and without going back through the Wayback Machine, it's not there. So they've taken things. They've just completely whitewashed a lot of this stuff. And they were doing that. They were shutting us down.

All these docs out there, Vladimir Zelenko, you know, who passed away from a, you know, a pulmonary angiosarcoma. But, you know, he was one of the. first people that I listen to. He's the one that sent that video to Donald Trump. He's the one I believe that Donald Trump saw the video of and came out and spoke in favor of hydroxychloroquine. And then right after that, Fauci, the little gnome, gets up there and goes, oh, this is just anecdotal and hydroxychloroquine doesn't work. Do you know that he wrote an article back in 2007, 2008, espousing the benefits of using hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine in the treatment of SARS? Okay. And SARS-1, which is the disease in the early 2000s, has a 73% homoids.

with SARS-2, the virus that they claim that is out there right now. So 73 percent, they actually did a study back in 2020, and they took a number of people. I want to say it wasn't a very large number. It might have only been 10 people. But they had 10 people, then they checked their serology. They checked their blood for antibodies to SARS-1. And they found out that all 10 of those people also had immunity to SARS-2. There was an article that was published out there. I can't find it anymore, right? But they checked their blood and they checked antibodies and they checked to see whether in a lab test, obviously, okay, they didn't infect these people or find a virus, but they checked it against a blood sample with somebody or a blood sample of the COVID disease. And they found

that they killed the COVID disease, all 10 of them. So if you survive SARS-1, okay, and you had antibodies to it, which I'm sure it was circulating widely, okay, and that's a reason why not a lot of people died, they had immunity to SARS-2. But they didn't want that out there. And that was the whole objective is they don't want that information out there. Because if there's treatment, okay, you can't announce for you can't declare a state of emergency and get the emergency use authorization and then launch the COVID vaccine. I mentioned before that I had three things that I saw that were red flags to me. The first one was the treatment. Okay. The second one was every single country, every single government in the world was doing the exact same thing. You and I can't agree

on whether you want baked potatoes or sweet potatoes for Thanksgiving dinner. But yet you have 208 countries that are going to do the exact same thing when everybody was in lockstep. Absolutely, everybody is doing the same thing. They're taking these drugs off the market. Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine are over the counter in France and they got taken off the market. Oh yeah. And, you know, we got the heart i i was ordering hydroxychloroquine for my office okay and for about six months eight months i couldn't get it it's gone just i couldn't order it i was on back order um it was you know i i i had ordered some because i was having my patients come in and i was treating them in the office with hydroxychloroquine um and i'm not a lot of dispense medications but i was having them come in

because they couldn't get it i i was writing so many prescriptions for hydroxychloroquine in and in in March, late March, early April of 2020, that the pharmacies, the Walgreens pharmacies that I used a lot of in the town that I'm in right now, they called me and it said, we don't have anymore, we can't get anymore. I'd wipe them out of all their hydroxychloroquine without just writing it from my patients, my family, my friends, and everybody else. Because I was just like, hey, here's Zelenco's protocol, okay, hydroxychloroquine, Zithromax, vitamin C, vitamin D, and zinc. And I was, and I was just telling everybody, I took exactly what he did. and what he was treating, because I think he'd treated 800 patients by that time.

And he'd only had one patient die, and that patient had only come to him more than three weeks out from starting, you know, from getting sick. None of his patients had died. None of my patients died. Everybody that I treated, and I treated people from 2020 until 2020, 2022, 2023. Okay, and I'm still treating occasional patient for COVID. I'm not sure it exists, but I treat the symptoms. And I treat them all the same way.

not one of my patients died, not one of them went to the hospital, not one of them got intubated, okay, not one of them got any more sick. As a matter of fact, I can't tell you the number of times that somebody would call me and they would take a dose of ivermectin or take a dose of hydroxychloroquine and within hours, they're like, I can breathe, I can feel better, okay? Is it a placebo? I don't know, but my point is it happened over and over and over again. And like I said, none of these patients got sick. I've heard that from other physicians, the small number who prescribed that protocol and had similar results. What's interesting about what you're saying is that you believe that the treatment, specific treatments for COVID, were banned by governments because they were effective. Yeah, because if they have a treatment, then they can't announce or they can't declare a state of emergency and have an emergency use authorization.

That law requires that there is no treatment for them to then put the third flag to me was the vaccine. Nothing's going to get back to normal until you put a needle in everybody's arm. 8.4 billion people on this earth need a needle in their arm in order to survive and to be a member of a contributing member of society. So that was strike number three for me. I remember very early in 2020, there was a study out of China that showed that heavy cigarette smokers had a lower mortality rate, which was like kind of unforgettable. I mean, what?

This is a respiratory illness and smokers are doing better than not, like, what is that? And the conclusion that they reached was that nicotine has some kind of prophylactic effect. I never followed up. But I did notice that the European Union

almost immediately banned online sales of nicotine pouches. What? What is that? that? I mean, you don't want to let your brain go there, but like... Well, again, they'll call it a conspiracy theory, but it's not. It's an actual conspiracy. Well, that's a fact. I mean, that's why I'm just saying what happened. But like, what is that? Right. And it's done on purpose because they want to launch this vaccine. That's what they're trying to do.

Man, well, that just raises a whole bunch of other questions that I've been mulling over for the past five years. But anyway, I'm sorry, I'm stepping on your story. So, okay, so you're, Within two days of taking COVID seriously, now you flipped your view based on the evidence as a practicing physician, you start prescribing the Zolinko regimen to people, it works. And then the final red flag, the vaccine. Right. What happened? Well, we start hearing about the vaccine, probably, I don't know, late spring, early summer,

you know, May, April, well, you know, late April, Mayish of 2020 was when people are like, hey, I think we're going to get a vaccine and we're going to have something, you know, in short order. And before I knew a whole bunch about it, I don't even know if I'd heard the term Operation Warp Speed yet. But, you know, I mentioned earlier that I don't really like vaccines. I don't think they help. I've had arguments with friends, family. I've had arguments with colleagues that I no longer talk to over vaccines. I mean, it's a cult.

And they say that we're a cult. People that believe in vaccines is a cult. it's a belief system it's not based on science it's not based on anything i got my hepatitis b vaccine when i started medical school in 1989 i got one shot within hours i had shingles i mean a real bad patch of shingles in my left armpit and i hurt like hell um and i just but i remember it very distinctly i didn't get the second one i didn't get the third one nobody was chasing me down okay nobody so just because i didn't get it. I wasn't like some pariah somewhere in there. But you had a demonstrable vaccine injury. But I had, well, what I felt was a, you know, vaccine injury. I mean, I'm just starting medical

school. I don't know. But I have enough common sense, okay, to know and to think that, hey, you know, the timeliness of this, that I, you know, what happened to me? Why am I getting a shingles, you know, eruption when I've never had shingles in my past. And you're a healthy man in your 20s. And I'm a healthy guy in my 20s. I'm playing soccer three days a week. You know, I don't have immune suppression that you're aware of. I'm aware of. I don't have any problems. But I get this huge patch of shingles.

That hurt like hell. And, you know, so I just, I refused any other vaccine. And, but at the time, we're talking, you know, 1989, nobody's chasing me. Now you see people that are kind of like, you know, you see the military, you know, you see hear stories. I just heard a story the other day of a guy who was in the Army, ROTC, did nothing but want to be in the Army for his whole life. and he joined the army and he was kicked out of the army because he was standing there with his

CEO with paperwork that said if you don't get this vaccine and we have to fire you or kick you out of the army you are going to owe all this money back or you can take this needle okay that's that was exactly the state that what they you know bow down before me and all of this will be yours all it's correct you know look and to his credit he said no and he signed the papers and he left a funny story they called him back um you know just a year ago and they're down on some deployment in mexico with his unit and they called him and said where are you like they expected him to be there okay we got to go fight the hoothies come on so anyway but because he's so into the army and really liked him he actually ended up joining again um but

my point being is what a nice guy It's, yeah, I mean, certainly nicer than me. But, yeah, but that's the, you know, that was the, that was the mentality back then where there was just kind of, okay, you don't want it, you don't have to have it. We're just trying to do it for your best interest, you know, but there was no coercion. There's nobody's forcing me to do anything. You know, flip that around, okay, where, you know, the first person that I see is Bill Gates saying that, well, nothing's going to be back to normal unless you get a needle in your arm. Well, who the fuck's Bill Gates? Exactly.

Is he a doctor? So I, well, I think he slept at a holiday and express last night. Well, so that's like kind of the irony here is that we were told, you know, for several years to trust the science and to listen to people who actually practice medicine. And you're a man of science and you practice medicine. You're a surgeon. So I would think that your opinion would have more weight than Bill Gates, who's like some autistic rich guy who is really close to Jeffrey Epstein. What does he have to do with this? Fall is here.

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Well, that's... You know, look, Anthony Fauci never took care of a patient in his life, okay? He did his residency at the NIH, he did his training at the NIH. He's a federal bureaucrat. And he's a bureaucrat, okay. Deborah Burke's the same way. I mean, she did some stuff in the military, but I think she was all kind of all administrative, never took care of patients. And so all of a sudden, we're supposed to trust these people that never been on the front lines, never took care of patients, have never seen an illness, are just looking at it from the standpoint of reading a book or reading an article or listening to some podcast or listening to some, you know, going to some meetings or something like that. Okay. And we're, and all of a sudden, these are, you know, that they, you know, kind of like the media proclaimed experts on all this. I'll tell you, before 2020, I'd been in practice exactly 19 years, okay? I graduated from, I graduated from, I graduated. So let's count medical school. I'd, I'd.

I graduated from medical school in 1993, all right, and then from 1993 to 2020, I had been to the CDC website to ask them advice on what I needed to do for my practice exactly zero times, okay? Zero. There is never any reason for anybody, at least my perspective, to go to the CDC. I'm reading articles. I'm listening to my colleagues. I'm talking, you know, I go to meetings. I, you know, I kind of review cases with some of my friends and some of my colleagues about

certain things, but I've never, never gone to the CDC. So a practicing physician trying to keep current with the science would have no, which you're apparently doing, would have no reason to consult CDC. No, none. There's nothing that the CDC is going to put out that is, you know, that is informative to me. Now, maybe they put out stuff for maybe some pediatricians or family practice stocks that maybe they follow or something like that, I guess. But, you know.

Well, they're liars. I mean, they can't even admit that Lyme was a bioweapon, okay? Which is very obvious to anyone who pays any attention at all. And all these, you know, so they're liars. So they're just discredited, I would say, right there. Well, and you mentioned, boy, did you just made me think about something. And now I can't think about it. I can't remember what I was.

Because you're making. Oh, oh. the first, even the very first, one of the very first articles that was even put out on the CDC website about COVID, okay, about COVID, said that of all the people that had supposedly died of COVID, okay, only 6% of them did not have a comorbidity, meaning that only 6% of the people that they claimed had died from COVID actually died just with COVID. Right. And the rest was in like a motorcycle accident or at stage four pancreatic cancer. Right. Or had two other comorbidities. The average comorbidity was 2.2. So in other words, they had two other diseases that were going on at the same time. Just happen to have advanced COPD and advanced COPD and heart disease or diabetes or, you know, or morbid obesity or something along those lines. And then they died of COVID. You know, the real answer is they may have died with COVID, okay? But they probably died from something else. And you mentioned that.

Well, but I mean, okay, so you're the, you're the science, professional science guy. If you catch someone lying, I mean, that, like, invalidates everything else, doesn't it? It should. I mean, lying is the one thing that's not allowed in science. It's science. The process is designed to be, for honesty, right? For clarity, like, we can't lie about anything. I thought that was the whole point of science.

Yeah, so the whole point of science is not to lie. and the whole point is to never believe that there's not something that can be improved on it. Science is never settled. Right, including to yourself. You can't lie to yourself. Correct. Science is never settled. And, you know, a number of times where, you know, well, this is settled science.

No, it's not. Okay. And I'll tell you, the, it's a much bigger picture, okay? Big pharma, I call them Big Harma, okay? They own everything. right there's a number of journals that have come out or editors past chief editors of journals and we're not talking just you know like some throwaway journals we're talking new england journal medicine lancet british medical journal okay some of the biggest journals in the world those are

top three out of the top four that i just named journal the american medical association is the other one um but chief editors in the last 20 years at least six of them have come out and said that at least 50% of the science that's published is fake. Come on. Read their quotes. Marsha Angel is one of them that I can remember her name. There's a guy by name of Richard, something or other from the British Medical Journal, who said the same thing. I just read an article about it just the other day.

I'll send it to you because it just talks about it. I'm not surprised. I mean, the depth of corruption is stunning. And the fact that pretty much nothing's been done about it makes you wonder, you know, how long this can all last. So back to your story, which I keep distracting from my, I'm sorry, you're making me mad, so it's hard to keep focused. So the vaccine is announced. How do you respond to that? What happens next?

Well, so for me, the vaccine was fine because I was just telling all my patients, all my friends, on my family, just like I was doing from previous vaccines. So my daughter was only partially vaccinated. My son was not. I have only had one vaccine in the last 20 years, and that was a, um, um, I have only had one vaccine in the last 20 years. and that was a yellow fever shot so that I can go on a humanitarian trip to go to Ghana. That was it. I tried to bribe the nurse

to not give it to me and squirt it in the garbage and she wouldn't do it. But I figured, hey, one shot, maybe, okay, I'll be all right. I think I am. Some people argue. But when it came out, I was just, you know,

I'm just telling everybody, don't take it. It's not worth it. You know, we've been trying to find a vaccine for cancer for 100 years. We've been trying to find a vaccine for AIDS for the last 40. And now all of a sudden, we're going to find the vaccine for the common cold virus in less than nine months that's been with us since the dawn of time. No. So I was just really happy just to tell everybody, don't, you know, don't take it.

It's not worth it. It's too risky. It's experimental. Just stay away from it. And I thought we were going to be just fine. And nobody wanted to give Donald Trump credit for the vaccine prior. to the election. I'm sure you remember that. I do. And then as soon as Biden gets elected, they're like, I'll never take that vaccine. You know, Biden, Kamala Harris, are like,

oh, that's the Trump vaccine. No way, I'm not going to touch it. January 20th of 2020 comes around all of a sudden, oh, it's, you know, everybody should get it. It's the greatest thing, you know, and all that. And then when they found out that people were not, did not want it, they started forcing it. And they started talking about, well, it's free. You should get it. You see, get your free donut, get your free happy meal, you know, all of this stuff that was out there trying to just convince people to get it. California is trying to pass laws so that 13-year-old kids could get it without their parents' permission. I mean, there was a case in Virginia, I believe, where a 13-year-old kid or 16-year-old kid actually told the doctor that he didn't want it. The doctor gave it to him anyway, and they ended up filing a lawsuit, and I think they lost that.

lawsuit, actually. The family won the lawsuit, let's say. The doctor did lose that lawsuit. Good. But, you know, that's, you know, but I was okay. I'm just telling everybody, don't do it. Then the mandates happen. You're not going to be able to go to school without a shot. You're not going to be able to have a job without a shot. You're not going to be able to travel without a shot. So people whose job depended on them traveling, you're not going to be able to stay in the military without getting your COVID shot. And the worst case to me was people that were mandated to get a potentially dangerous. Oh, I already knew it was dangerous.

I'd already met a number of people that had already been vaccine injured. There were 700 VERS deaths that were reported. I knew one of them. In January 2021, I knew somebody who dropped dead from it. And there were 700 reported deaths in the month of January alone, okay, just in one month. And that's fairs. That's self-reporting. That's self-reporting, correct, okay?

Or self-reporting or reported by, you know, a physician. Actually, physicians are actually required to report complications, okay? It's a law. You're required to do that. They'll get around it because they'll say, well, I didn't really think that it was because of the vaccine. We don't know. I mean, we don't really know, so I didn't report it. But there were 700 reported cases.

There was a Harvard study done in the 2010, 2014, something like that, that said that the VERS reports under the veres you know uh vairs under reports things by at least one to 10 percent okay um so that means we could have had in the month of january we could have had 7 000 deaths or 70 000 deaths at a 1% rate um and there's over 40 000 that are not over maybe i think we're right at 40 000 now um dead dead that have been reported since january of 21 okay so that means we either have 400 000 or 4 million deaths okay uh cool just according to those numbers. But again, so the mandates come out,

and I said that the last straw for me, not straw, but I mean, the last thing was when they were requiring people to get a transplant. If you want a transplant, you need a kidney transplant in order to survive. You've got to go get the COVID vaccine. The official story on 9-11 is a complete lie. The 9-11 report is a joke.

You have the CIA following two men all over the planet and then eventually even to America, right? and you don't tell the FBI. Nine and the limit commission cover. So what did happen? What did the government know? What did foreign governments know?

There was a cover-up. Why? It's been nearly 25 years in his time Americans learned what actually happened. We're going to tell you. We're releasing one episode per week. You're not going to wait.

If you remember, you don't have to. You get all five episodes the day it drops right then, ad-free. Our first episode airs Thursday, 9-11, September 11th. You will not want to miss it. Join us now at Tucker Carlson.com. So that's where, so, you know, if I were running things, I would find out who made that decision,

and they'd be punished for it. They'd be on trial for that. I mean, that's the cruelest thing I can imagine. We covered that at the time. I couldn't believe. That's when you sort of lose faith in like your country's systems. Right. Like if that's the result, if someone can actually reach that conclusion and everyone around

I'm like, oh, no, good plan. Let's have people die. Right. Unless they take this Vax, which we're supposedly giving because it's life saving. We're going to just kill people if they won't obey. That's the point where we're like, we need a new system because that's evil. Well, we live in a system where if something works, everybody wants it. If something is good, everybody's going to pay for it and everybody's going to want

to have it. Exactly right. But when you're coercing people and forcing people to do it, there's got to be something wrong. Yeah. And I don't know, we talked about this briefly earlier, I don't know how as a physician, you can feel comfortable injecting a product into somebody's arm that you don't even know what's in it. Okay. The product data sheet, the safety data sheet that comes with it, you unfold it. It's this thing folded up in this box. Origami. Okay. It's like an origami. And you unfold it and it says intentionally left blank on the front and back. And so you have doctors that are taking that vial that's in the same box, reconstituting it and then injecting it into people's arms. What did you just inject? What did you just give them?

How do you know that it's safe? Where's the information? Where's the data? Because we're talking 2021, right? There is no science, no data, nothing has been published, and nothing was going to get published until Aaron Siri filed that FOIA request and that lawsuit, and the government required it to be published over the course of the next nine months. So none of this information was even available until 2022.

And we still don't really know what's in these products. Everybody's talking about the lipid nanoparticle. everybody's talking about the, you know, the product, the MRNA and all of that stuff that's in these injections. All of the animal studies on the MRNA, all the animals died. Okay. And one of the last articles that I read on it said, this is not ready for human use yet. Okay. And now, you know, nine months later, a year later, okay, we're injecting it into 8.4 billion people on this earth.

when it's not ready for human use, and yet we've transitioned, okay, to giving it to every human because Anthony Fauci says that the science is settled, and that he is Mr. Science. He is science itself. He is science. Yeah. So how, okay, so your perspective is really clear. It's obvious you feel a moral duty to do the right thing by your patients. The mandates come down.

Where does that leave you? Well, so that's when I made a decision to do something. And my decision at that point was I signed up with the Utah Health Department to become a vaccine clinic. I've never given vaccines before. But I signed up and said that I can probably treat this number of people. They gave me, you know, gave me the form to sign. We signed it. I became a vaccine provider for the COVID vaccine.

And instead of giving the COVID vaccine, I gave saline shots to kids and I just gave the cards to their parents. How hard was it for you to reach that decision, that conclusion that you were willing to do that? I truly thought that this was just a decision between my patients. They were giving me a product to use that they want me to use, but I chose not to use it because I didn't think that the science supported it. And my patients were coming to me and agreed with my assessment. And therefore, I gave them full informed consent. And I would show them the sheet, a piece of paper, says intentionally left blank, do you want me to inject this into your body? Okay. And anybody who's got any common sense is going to say no. All right. And that's exactly right. So you come to me as a patient and you say, hey, I have questions about this vaccine. Should I take it? Okay. And I give you my opinion. My professional opinion is all of the animals that they treated MRI products with lip and nanoparticles died. They said that it wasn't ready for human use. Nine months later, saying now it's ready for human use in spite of the fact that we don't have any human studies in between this. And we don't know what the studies are that they have done.

And here's your product data sheet that says it's intentionally left blank. Would you like me to inject this into your arm? Anybody with common sense is going to say, no thank you. And so I didn't. And I truly thought that I was taking care of my patient. Full informed consent. I'm abiding by my Hippocratic oath because, like, we just talked about this. We already knew that a lot of people had died.

Okay, you knew somebody personally in January 21 that, you know, killed over dead. I didn't know anybody personally at that time. I knew some people that had been injured from me. I did not know anybody person, but I'm looking at the numbers, okay? I'm like 700 people. I mean, the average number of people, I think, that have been reported, deaths reported for all vaccines combined per month was probably in the low double digits, okay, prior to January of 21, all right?

In one month, we have 700 that are reported, 19,000 adverse events. by April, that number was 1,700, okay, and I went back dead, dead, okay, reported to VERS at a 1% to 10% number, okay? So we're talking about 17,000 or 1.7 million people, or 170,000 people, sorry. So 17,000 to 170,000 by April of that, just three months later. Can you explain informed consent? My understanding was informed consent the idea came out of or was certainly bolstered by the experience of the Nuremberg trials. And we learned that the Nazi medical program, which really was one of the worst things about Nazi Germany,

was the way physicians treated patients, murdered a lot of them. But after that, the American Medical Association made a really clear statement about the moral requirement and legal requirement for doctors to tell their patients the potential consequences of the treatment. Is that informed consent? That's informed consent. You have a right to know. Well, you, I mean, you have a right to know, and I have a right to tell you.

I mean, I have, I have to tell you. You have an obligation. I have an obligation to tell you, not just the right. I have an obligation to tell you, hey, look, this is what I think your treatment should be. Okay. First of all, you're coming to me with these symptoms, okay? And I'm telling you what I think that it is. And then this is what I propose as a treatment, okay?

And this treatment has these side effects and has these potential benefits. That's informed consent, okay? across the board. And I've been doing that for years. I mean, I can't go to surgery without informed consent. Okay. I have a five-page informed consent form for my surgeries, whatever surgery it is that I'm doing. This is the risk. This is what I'm, you know, this is what I'm doing. And this is the reasons why we're doing it. This is what you agree to doing. But these are the risks that are involved with that. Okay. I do it every single day. And that's part of medicine. That's part of what we were taught. It's part of the legal side of medicine, too. If I don't do informed consent to my patients and then

they have a complication and they sue me and there's no informed consent on the chart, well, I'm screwed. As you should be. And, you know, but why aren't we, why was nobody in this case? Nobody's given informed consent. How do you give informed consent on something that you don't even know what's in it? I mean, that to me is the one of the number one things that I'm just sitting here going. But where all the other doctor?

I mean, so you're describing a system that was in place pre-COVID in which informed consent is the very center of the process. Like, you don't get to cut on somebody ever without this formal process. Like, you're the potential consequence. But everybody, every doctor knows this, right? Right. And it's supposed to be for medications. It's supposed to be for vaccines. It's supposed to be for any treatment. Correct. But every doctor does this. They're supposed to. It's required by law. It is required. So all of a sudden you have every doctor participating in this vaccine program effectively. right and this is the one treatment that doesn't require informed consent and you're you're the only one who notices this what um i'm not the only one that notice that there are a lot of people that no i know but i but no i get it um but you know

what this is the problem with vaccines okay you don't get informed consent even with any vaccine you go in and talk to your doctor about the dpt vaccine or you go in and talk to them about the hep b vaccine that but now by the way i talked to you about before hep b vaccine okay was given to me and when I was, you know, 20 years old or, sorry, 24 years old when I started medical school, okay, because I was an at-risk person. You know what it's given now? Day one of birth, okay? Day one of birth.

You're an at-risk person because you were dealing with body fluids as a physician. Correct. Right, and you can be infected. But why? But now, in the 35 years since, it's required for every child born in the United States. Yes, they get one on day one at birth, they get another one a month later, and they get another one six months later. And that's because it's a captive audience.

That's the only reason. How many babies are going to be IV drug abusers or go out have unprotected sex or get a blood transfusion from somebody who's infected? And by the way, some of the pediatricians will tell you, well, mom could have had hepatitis B and therefore you're trying to prevent the baby from getting it. Well, mom was tested for hepatitis.

during a pregnancy so you would have known if they had hepatitis and hepatitis B and so then you would have been able to either treat it or do something about it or maybe prophylax the baby

at that point. Why would pediatricians go along with that? They um um to put it bluntly money but why are they allowed

to practice medicine with those attitudes um no I'm serious Why doesn't the FBI raid their offices? If they're giving infants treatment that the infant doesn't need that has potentially harmful consequences and they're doing it for money than their criminals. You're absolutely right. And not only are they doing it for money, but they don't even know what it is that they're doing.

Do you know the average, there's two hepatitis B vaccines that are in the United States right now that are in use? Do you know what the long term, the follow-up study on those two hepatitis B vaccines is? four days for one five days for the other four day follow-up on one five-day follow-up where's the longitudinal study they haven't done it how can that be that's the vaccine industry in 1986 when they got liability okay um starting in about 19 liability liability protection liability protection correct sorry um when they got liability full liability protection okay the one that you don't have that i don't have but only albert boerla has nobody else that of has this right in the world in the world in any industry okay nobody but the pharmaceutical companies

do on all vaccines because it's life-saving but you can live without vaccines you can't live without food i've never known of a baby that was born of the vaccine deficiency okay right but i'm just saying like why don't the food you know one of the big ag companies why doesn't your family farm have full liability protection because i mean talk about a life-saving industry right but they don't have it no only The vaccine makers have it. Correct. Right. Okay.

And Ronald Reagan, I think he, there's a quote saying that it was probably one of the one, one of the one laws that he signed that he regretted signing. For what it's worth. It wasn't a great second term, I would say. It was not. No. Yeah. Anyway, I don't want to be mean. I like Ronald Reagan, I guess.

No, I do too. I'm not, again. Yeah, but nobody's perfect. What is that? What is that? A lot of these laws were signed by Republican presidents. Yes. the prep act was signed by it does make you want another party actually um whatever but that that's not

the scope of this interview doctor um okay so there's no informed consent for any vaccine given is your point so correct because um there's never there are no long term studies on any vaccines and and and there are actually no placebo controlled studies on any current vaccines that are on the market right now. Come on. Not one current vaccine that is on the children's schedule has ever been studied against a placebo. But I thought that that was a prerequisite. It is a prerequisite.

For science. It is a prerequisite for science. And it's not been done. Why? In a nutshell, they put out something. They will do a short-term. study on something they will proclaim that it's safe and effective and when they put it on the childhood vaccine schedule they will then use that fact that it's on the schedule as an ethical

moral foundation that if you don't because they've declared it's safe and effective they will use that as a moral foundation to say you cannot withhold you cannot safely or ethically withhold it from getting it's logical it's safe because it's safe it's safe because it's safe and it's effective because it's safe and it's and it's and it's and it's and it's and it's effective because it's effective okay and you can't keep it from babies and you can't keep it from anybody this is why logic needs to be a requirement in school right it's safe because we said it's safe correct therefore it's so safe by definition it's safe because we declared it safe that we can't testing for its safety would be a violation of safety well it would be a it would be an ethical

and moral, you know, threshold that we do not want to cover it. Right. It would be immoral to find out if it's actually safe because the process of finding out would require us to withhold it from certain people. Correct. Which is immoral. Holy shit. That is, okay, so I always say of doctors, and again, there's probably no group I dislike more in the world than doctors just because I think they've really misused their authority and fall in social

short. But I always say to myself, anyway, having known a lot of doctors, they're all, they're all smart. I mean, it's pretty hard to get into med school. It's hard to go get through residency, all the rest. But now you're convincing me that a lot of them must not be smart because that's just like basic logic right there. It is basic logic. Unfortunately, they've been brainwashed, okay, into believing that they are safe and effective. And not all of them will go back and look at the science. It takes time. It takes effort. It takes effort. It and ability, you end up, you know, you kind of get into this, you get into this routine in your life where, you know, you trust the people that are coming to you and trust them that the

studies that they're giving you are appropriate and that they're true and they're not fake and the evidence that they're showing you is, you know, is the correct evidence. We already talked about, you know, half of the evidence, at least half of the evidence that is being published. Look, it's a, it's a captured industry, okay? The people that are making the drugs are the ones that study the drugs and then are the ones that publish the results. The New England Journal of Medicine,

the Journal of American Medical Association, the British Medical Journal and the Lancet, all those top four journals from 2020 to 2020, when you go through a peer review process and you submit your journals to them to be reviewed to get published, those reviewers were paid $1.06 billion in three years. Okay, by the pharmaceutical industry.

And that's a number that's out there that's just recently been published. $1.06 billion was given to those people that reviewed those journal articles for publication. Those are the peers in the peer-reviewed study. Correct. The peers are all on the take. They're all on the take. And they were also given research grants, and the average research grant was $153,000. Okay.

By pharma. By pharma. so they they do the study they design a study they pay the study investigators they collate the data and pay the people that are reviewing it for publication in the journal that they own essentially they own because the journals get money on the majority of their money they get money is on preprints or on reprints so the pharmaceutical companies companies will pay the journal X amount of money for a reprint. And they give those reprints to then give them out to doctor's offices through their

pharmaceutical representatives that go out to the offices, go walk into a pediatrician office and hand out six preprints or, sorry, reprints. And they give them these reprints that they've paid for from the journals. And that's how these journals, the majority of their money comes from these reprints. it's it's such a closed system it's just astonishing and it's astounding but you're the criminal here I just want to remind you I know yeah thank I don't please don't just want to reorient your moral universe a little bit you doctor are the criminal so so the mandates come you're registered with the state of Utah as a vaccine dispensary for so physician vaccine provider yeah provides

vaccines your patients come you give them to the extent you can all the information that you have about these products. There's not a lot, but you tell them what you know. And then you give them the option, because it's their body, their choice, about whether or not to take the VACs. Where's the, okay, so this is, obviously you're serving your patients. I wish you'd been in my neighborhood at the time. How do you get in trouble for that?

Well, because I didn't do what they wanted me to do. Who's they? The government. So you made a very good, you know, astute comment. I went to the state health department in Utah to become a vaccine provider. But yet the federal government came after me. So in January of 2023, on January 11th, I had 10 or 11 officers show up in my office. They didn't have their guns drawn like they did with Roger Stone.

What kind of officers? FBI, HHS, it was the OIG's office of the HHS and DHS. Department of Homeland Security. They love having their task forces. So they established a task force. Such a buffoons. So they established a task force sometime in 2022 because they heard about me providing these saline shots

and COVID cards without a shot. So they showed up in January, served in January 23, and they served a search warrant on me and on my office manager for our phones. They confiscated our phones. Like your cell phone? It took your cell phone?

It took my cell phone. What if you just say no? Well, they had a search warrant, so they had a legal. Well, how about no? This is all fake. I guess. They have a search warrant. Okay.

You and your fake government, back off. Well, I tried that, and I'll tell you that later. Okay. I have a search warrant. Right. Safe and effective search warrant. Well, and then they tried to get me to open up my phone so that they could access it. They actually never did get into my phone because they didn't have the password.

And Apple would never tell. So what did you say? I just said no. I said, I don't know my password and I'm not going to give it to you. What did they say? They said, well, they actually said, well, it could go a lot easier on you if you give you access.

I said, no, no, thanks. It's going to be hard enough. It's going to be hard enough as it is anyway. But it was funny because I... I'm sorry, I just want to linger on this point for one second. So you're like a physician practicing medicine. The FBI shows up with a task force at your office. What did you think?

Well, my office manager came back to my office all in a paper. panic, you know, completely, you know, white-faced, said the FBI is here, and I said, what are they here for? You had no warning. No warning. And she said, well, they're here to serve it. They want your phone and my phone. It's a search warrant.

And I go, oh, okay. Did they tell you what it's about? And she's like, no. And go around to the front, and they're sitting there talking to Sandra, who was, that was Kerry, and they were sitting there talking to Sandra at the front desk. and they were trying to get her to, you know, to spill the beans on stuff. They were just questioning her. And, uh, and Sandra was just, you know, I don't know, I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. Just, you know, doing, you know, doing the right thing, really, just not answering any questions. I like Sandra. Just hearing. Go Sandra. Um, and, uh, and so anyway, so, um, they served a search warrant. They took my phone.

They took Carrie's phone. And you never gave him the password. I never gave him the password. and there is a they just walk out they can just show up and walk off with your phone yeah people keep a lot of personal stuff on their phones a lot of personal stuff i do not but i'm just saying you don't anymore the average i don't know i've had my phone taken so i know but um yeah just just a quick sidebar if you're involved in any job that's even remotely controversial do not keep personal stuff on your phone. Sorry. Everyone should know that. Anyway, don't go to any website that you wouldn't

want your mom to know about. Just stay clean digitally. That would be my strong advice. So, wow, that's totally crazy. So how did you respond to these? Come in. They take your phones and then... So I called my attorney. My attorney showed up. I mean, he's not a criminal attorney. He was just my real estate guy. He shows up. Doing a title search. So he's kind of like, hey, what's wrong with this contract here? But, you know, and he was good. He was just said, hey, look, Kirk, don't say anything. Just, you know, and so he gave him my phone.

And like I said, they never got into mine. They do have a program that can kind of get into phones. But it takes probably three or four years of the operating system in order for them to hack into it. So my phone was still new enough to where. they weren't able to get into it even up to the you know up to january or july this year um so i think we need some way to like blow up your phone the second the fbi start knocking well there is a way that you can do that now not blow it up you can't no you heard about that once in in was it israel whatever where they had the where they actually had something in it where they could

actually make the thing catch on fire no but i want that so there was something that they did that they put in in the cell phones i don't know if it was apple phones or if it was the android versions or what but they had something in there that they had um that they supposedly put in the phones and then giving them to some terrorists or something and they were able to kind of make the phone blow up you didn't hear about that well they're the the pagers oh was it pagers i thought it was the pagers yeah yeah it was the pagers okay sorry about yeah yeah so blew the genitals off a thousand people simultaneously. So no, that, I don't know that there's any, like, domestically available.

Well, but you can actually erase your phone. You can, if you lose your phone, you can get, if it's an iPhone, then you can actually get on it and you can, and you say, I lost my phone, it's permanently lost, and you can erase everything on there. Did you do so? I did not, because I didn't want to get in trouble for that, for tampering with evidence or, you know, whatever. But I did not do it.

So when did you learn what you're going to be charged with? A week later, I learned about it in a email that I got from a reputation website that published a article by heavy.com that had seen something on the DOJ that the DOJ had announced the indictment. I never got served. I never got paperwork. What? What? No. And I, you know, I actually, none of us did.

So you first heard from some company that, like, repairs damaged reputations? Yes. From, like, Harvey Weinstein's publicist, basically. It's like, hey. Now that you're a bad person, you should hire us. You should hire us to help you. Are you serious? Yeah, so it was a heavy.com article that was kind of regurgitating what the DOJ had said in their press release.

But no one had ever sent you the press release or informed you. No. What country is this? I think we still live in the United States. Barely. Yeah. Wow. Wow.

Wow. Yeah. By the way, do you have any patients in the office when the FBI barged in? We, oh, that's a good question. On Wednesday, yeah, we would have had patients in the office. They must have been surprised. Yeah. Well, you know, as a plastic surgery business, I typically don't have a lot of patients in there all

once. So, you know, it's a pretty private kind of, you know, scenario. We have, you know, one or two patients. per hour that kind of come in at, you know, at any given time. Sometimes we're a lot busier, but on a Wednesday, on our consult days, you know, it's typically pretty slow. So I, I don't remember, but they're probably only... I bet they remember. I bet they'll never forget it. It's hilarious. Sorry, I know not for you. So what were you charged with? So I was charged with fraud, conspiracy to commit fraud, because there was more than one of us. And,

and counterfeiting counterfeiting counterfeiting because I filled out cards when I didn't put the COVID vaccine lot number and the date

that it was supposedly injected and then signed it so this was like there were a lot of cases like this in the 1850s where like a runaway slave would show up at somebody's house and they'd harbor the slave

and they would get charged and there was a huge theological debate about this at the time of course culminating in the John Brown murders And, I mean, there was a lot of debate. It wasn't just John Brown, but about whether it's ethical to violate an immoral law. Right.

And that must be a conversation you had, at least with yourself. Well, the conversation that I had with myself was, I'm taking care of my patient. There were no COVID laws. There were no laws that require me to inject anybody with anything. And so my discussion with myself was exactly that, said, I'm not breaking any laws, so I don't really understand why they're coming after me. That's one. And then two, there was never a law. You're right. It's never a law. And two. So what law did you violate if there was not? Well, they were claiming fraud that they had given me $28,000 worth a product. And I had, and I was told to use it in a certain way. and I didn't use it in the way that they wanted me to. What'd you do with it, by the way?

Just throw it away. How big is a 28,000 item lot of COVID fax? It was 2,270 doses is what I had ordered. Okay. So was that, like, could you fit that in a duffel bag? Yeah, they're small vials. They're about an inch tall by, you know, three quarters of an inch. And you just tossed them in the garbage.

Yeah. Yeah, we discovered him. As a matter of fact, I mean, Carrie, my office manager, she would order the product. It would get delivered to the office by UPS or FedEx or whatever. She would sign for it. And then she told me, and I didn't know this at the time, but in order to keep anybody from actually using them, she would take them home immediately. and then from home she would just throw them away.

So we had, there was another employee of mine that supposedly had told it FBI in something or interview that she didn't agree with what it was that we were doing and thought that her daughter should have gotten her COVID shot. And so she went in there and drew one up and gave it to her herself because we weren't going to give it to her. And that was a total lie because we never had any of the COVID vaccine in the office. So how did you, is she the one who ratted you out to the feds in the first? No, so the way they found out about it is a lady was completely anti-COVID, anti-vax, told her office, told her staff, told everybody that she worked with, her HR department, everybody, that she would never get the backs. She'd rather quit, get fired, whatever. And then one day she shows up with a card from my office. And so then they called the Utah Health Department and said, her office did.

Yes. What kind of office was it? I think it was a utility office in California. I'm not positive about that. And so they called the Utah Health Department and the Utah Health Department then, I guess in turn, called the FBI. And we found this out during the trial that the first thing that the Utah Health Department was supposed to do upon hearing that somebody was not using their COVID vaccines properly was they were supposed to shut us down. and if they weren't going to shut us down, then they should have at least done a site review on us. Or call you and say, hey, is it true that you're not dispensing the company? But they didn't do anything.

They got a hold of the FBI right away. And so then that was, again, part of the whole scheme on their part. So they're claiming I had a scheme. Yeah, and my scheme was to save, I didn't want to murder or maim my patients. Okay, that was my scheme. Good scheme. Their scheme was to try to catch me. And that's what they did.

They ran a sting operation on me, had two police officers come in and get a COVID card, both of them without a shot. They had to, you know, so. Did you consult with them? No, I did not. I didn't see. I hardly saw. None of these patients came in to get a COVID vaccine. They all knew what we were doing.

It was a word of mouth thing. I never kept any patient from getting a vaccine if they wanted it. Okay. And I never gave a vaccine to somebody who didn't want it. but everybody that was coming to me was coming to me because I was giving fake cards they knew it they wanted it I wasn't I didn't have to talk to them

they'd done all their own research if they had any questions they would ask me and I wish I'd known I had I had a friend who printed a bunch of fake fax cards I was proud to carry a fake fax card around the world in the various countries and well you did an interview with that doubt about that in January of 23

January February 23, I think it was, on your Fox Nation show. Yeah, I felt guilty about, I actually only showed it one time in one country, but I felt guilty. I felt like I should be man enough to be like, I'm not getting that. And, and just, but I, but you can't. You know, you have the whole system that's out against you. I know. I just felt like it was for doing that. And I felt like a real man would just stand up. I can't imagine my father, like having a fake Vax guard to be like buzz off. I did. Anyway, but I just, God bless everyone who provided fake fax cards. And I just want to thank you to your face for doing that. It's what a wonderful service and a truly ethical thing to do.

But you're facing life in prison for doing it. So you get indicted. When do you find out that the penalty is life? Well, so originally the penalty was total of 15 years, max, if I had been convicted on all charges. They were also accusing me of making money. And they, I, I wasn't doing anything. So initially in the summer of 21, I was just giving cards out. And, you know, anybody who wanted him was giving them out. If they came in with a kid, then I would do a saline shot on their kid. Eventually that kind of changed, the routine changed a little bit where some people get nervous.

Hey, you're just doing this so freely you're going to get caught. And somebody's going to say that you did something wrong or whatever and you know you run the risk. And again, I still fell back on what am I doing wrong? I'm taking care of my patients. This is what they want. They're coming in. They have full informed consent, you know, and everything else. There's no COVID law.

And there's no COVID law, right? But eventually we got convinced that, you know, look, we got to start screening people. And so that's where Chris comes in, my other co-defendant. And so she starts screening people. And in addition to that, we had people that were saying, hey, you know, Kirk or Dr. Moore, you know, you're not taking any payment on this. what can we do to help, you know, help you. And I said, well, look, there's this organization that is trying to change the laws here in the state of Utah to prevent this from ever happening again. And I've been to their meetings and I was kind of doing what I could to help.

I was testifying in Congress or at our state, you know, state house and Senate committee hearings to try to get laws passed to take away the right of our health department and our county council to force mandates. indefinitely on anybody. And so we had passed some laws. And so I knew what this organization was doing. And so I said, look, if you have a, if you want to do something, please donate to this organization. And they said, well, how much? I said, well, typically people are charging their insurance companies about 50 bucks for a shot. So just donate $50 to this organization. And I would have them put a little orange. I don't know where I came up with an orange. I haven't put an orange in their Zell or Venmo payment or whatever so that, you know, so that HIA, who was the organization, would know what it was.

And so we did that. And the government claimed that I did that for everybody. So all 1,937 patients that got listed to the Utah State Immunization Information System uses were claiming that those were people that had come to my office that we had put their name on the list and said to, that they got a COVID shot. So they were saying that out of that, at $50 a piece, it's like $96,000, plus the $28 grand that they gave me a product was $128,000 worth of $124,000. That money you said it went to charity. It didn't go to you.

Correct. I didn't get a dime. Okay. But they were trying to claim that I was making money somehow. Okay. And they did. And they, you know, they did that. But then they had to take that charge away.

Okay. So here's a funny story. The second police officer that came in to do the sting operation on me, to confirm what it happened to his quote-unquote girlfriend, okay? He got busted for selling bath salts. So he was an FBI agent that was stealing bath salts from a confiscated, you know, raid and then taking some of it and then turning around and selling it. No way.

He's a drug dealer. He's a drug dealer. Okay. So they had, he was an FBI agent? He's an FBI agent. Yeah. I'm not surprised, actually. I mean, you're an FBI.

I couldn't have a lower opinion of FBI agents in general, not all, but most. But if they tell you, okay, we're going to do a sting operation on a physician who's decided as a practicing medical doctor that he doesn't want to give the COVID vaccine, your job is to bust him. If you're going along with that, it's voluntary. You don't have to do it if you don't want. You're a low person. Like, you're a disgusting person. Like, check yourself, is this why I got into the FBI to bust doctors for not prescribing an untested vaccine? Yeah, I mean, they don't look at it that way.

Yeah, I know they don't. I mean, the whole government scenario, everything that they're, again, this is not about justice, okay? It's not about the truth, okay? It's just about winning. And it's about, when it came to me, in my case, it came to be about proving a point, okay? They wanted to prove that to other doctors, this is what happens to you, okay, when you mess with us, when you fuck with us and everything else, this is what's going to happen to you. It didn't matter whether it was the right thing. it's a display of power it didn't matter it didn't matter that i had not hurt any patient it didn't matter that i was um that i'm a plastic surgeon doing house calls and i'm saving people's lives okay and that i

literally take people out of the hospital get them off the remdesivir that they were in give them high dose steroids give them ivermectin and everything else and now they are still alive and not six feet under okay and i did that on two or three occasions and i didn't charge a dime to anybody for doing this that doesn't matter to them okay What mattered to them was you didn't do what we told you to do, and therefore we are going to hold your feet to the fire, and we are going to prove, and we're going to make it hurt so much to you, and we're going to show the world that if they ever were to try this, that this is what's going to happen. It's sadomasochism. They're in the dominant position. They've got the whip hand, and they want you to know it. And they ruin you financially. They spend all this money. They make you spend. I had to hire an attorney for my business. okay for my business does my business speak okay do they get up can you can i take my business and

put my business on the stand and ask them why my business did this okay but no i had to hire an attorney and spend a buttload of freaking money okay to pay my attorney to just sit there in trial okay that's our system what do you get cost you um if i add up the bills it was somewhere between 7 and 800 grand, which is not as expensive as what some other cases are, but I lost a lot of money out of my business too. I mean, just think about the time and effort and the loss of, you know, the loss of focus. I mean, I used to just work, right? I mean, I'd go to the office. I'd take care of my patients. I'd advertise. I'd market. I would, you know, be there for them and do everything. I didn't have anything else. I didn't have all

this extraneous stuff that I'm thinking about. But now I'm the only thing I'm thinking about is how do I keep myself out of jail? How do I provide for my family? So, yeah. Oh, so you asked me before. So, and we got off subject. So when that officer got caught, all the data and evidence and everything that they had in the original indictment had to be removed. So what they did was.

This turns out the FBI is it was a drug dealer. Yes, the FBI was a drug dealer. So they had to take all that out. But then what they did was is they added another charge of, of destruction of government property and evidence tampering, which added another 20 years to my sentence. 20 years? 20 years, evidence tampering. What was the government property that you destroyed?

The vaccine. They claimed that even though they gave me a product, so the ultimate Indian givers, okay, they gave me a product and that it was sitting in my freezer that they had given to me and that until I injected it into a patient's arm that they own that product because they gave it to me because they paid for it and they gave it to me as the custodian I guess they're going to put you in prison for 20 years for that they were going to put me in jail for

yeah if I destroyed that property correct they were going to that was an additional 20 years of what kind of prosecutor and you're in your late 50s by this point uh yeah I turned 60 this year right what was the total sentence you were facing 35 years so I put you in prison until 95 you're dead. Right. Right. So what kind of, so at some point a prosecutor had to decide on what the maximum penalty would be. That's a judgment called subjective. Right. Well, no, the maximum penalty is the judge. So if I'd have been sentenced, then, you know. Of course. The judge determines that, but the prosecutor decides which charges he's going to bring. Right. And he knows what penalty is attached to those charges. Correct. So. They hated me.

but like they looked at me with such disdain please name these prosecutors and tell us who they were so todd boughton todd boughton yeah b-o-t-t-on who is todd boughton so todd boughton came from california in the prosecutor's office in california he'd only been in he's only been in utah well at the time that he had me under indictment it had only been there about a year i think he's a federal prosecutor is a federal prosecutor so he was in the uh u.s attorney's office in salt lake city yes Todd Bouton. How old is Todd Bouton-ish? 50, 48. And Todd Bouton was, do you think, one of the prime movers behind this?

He was the lead prosecutor on this case. Lead prosecutor. Okay. So I don't know if it got assigned to him or if he chose it or if he, but he hated me. I mean, he looked at me with such distinct. Why? I don't know. Todd Bouton, does he still work at the Department of Justice?

He does. How can Todd Bouton still have a job at the D.O.D. Jay. I would think draining the swamp would require firing Todd Bouton day one, but that's just my view. Okay. And I'm, again, stepping on your story. So, okay, there was Todd Bouton as lead prosecutor.

Who else? So Jacob Strain was his boss. Jacob Strain. Yeah. So J-A-O-B and then S-T-R-A-I-N. Uh-huh. And he was, he's the senior prosecutor in that, but he was taking a backseat to Todd Bouton. Todd Bouton was leading a, you know, leading the charge.

And Jacob Strain has been in that office in Salt Lake for a long time. Is he still there? He's still there as well. Yes, he's still there. How? This was just one of many cases that they had. Of this kind? Well, they, I don't know if you heard about that one case that they had where they,

there were people that were selling COVID cards on eBay. There was a guy in Utah. Oh, of course I. There was a guy in Utah and a guy in New York. And between the two of them, they sold 140. $40,000 cards on eBay that they had just printed. They'd gone to Kinko's. I don't know if Kinko still exists, but my point, you know, they went to a printing company

or they printed them at home, made COVID cards, stamped them, and we're selling them for $10 a piece. These guys made $1.4 million. God bless them. And they got convicted. They got a year in jail and a $40,000 fine. That was their conviction. They took a plea deal.

Do they actually do the time? I don't know. I think so. Okay. But a year in jail and $40,000 fine. And then the same prosecutor. So Todd Voughton, same guy, took those guys and he got that plea deal. And he's taking me to trial and trying to put me in jail for 35 years.

And you're a physician. I made no money. I made no money. I didn't charge anybody anything. I made no money. I asked people to donate to an organization that was helping pass laws in the state of Utah that we supported as an organization. and everything else. And yet he, you know, they never offered me a plea, ever.

I would not have taken one if they had they, but they never even came to me out for me. They give pleas to job monsters all the time. Yes. All the time. All the time. Yeah. Let's cut it down to a decent exposure and we're fine. Had you ever been in trouble with the law?

So I had a case four or five years ago where I got accused of insurance fraud of filing. a false insurance claim and that I had three of my employees turned me in even though it wasn't true but I had to take a plea deal on that because I had three people against me for me for one

so I took a misdemeanor charge and did you lose your medical license I had it suspended for well on paper suspended for two years but they but it was but so they suspended but they gave it back to me under probation. And so I did an 18-month probation and never got in trouble. I've never been

in trouble prior to that at all. So I got accused of, I had a trailer that was stolen from my office parking lot. And the trailer had a whole bunch of stuff in it, some of which I knew, some of which I didn't. I had just moved into my office. And we were moving stuff in, moving stuff out. I came from an office that was 5,800 square feet to an office that was just under four. So we had a lot of stuff that just didn't fit. And so I had my sister out who's kind of helping with interior design. And so we're moving stuff in and out. And I didn't know what was in the trailer, what was not, and everything else.

And so I put a lot of things on the insurance claim, and some of which I took off later, some of which I didn't. But my staff that I had fired accused me of, you know, fraudulently making claims on my insurance. And I didn't. If I did, it was a mistake because I didn't know, you know, I didn't really, I truly didn't know what was on there. I do know that there were at least, you know, there was a couple of boxes of medical charts on there, and there was a whole bunch of medical supplies and, you know, and those kinds of things. So, but I just couldn't fight. So it wasn't an insurance claim related

to your medical practice? No, no, I had nothing to do with that. Oh, okay. So what happened next? You're facing life in prison for this. They do not offer you a plea deal. You wouldn't have taken it anyway, you said, but how long did this drag out and how did it end? So we, I went to jail twice. You went to jail? I went to jail twice. Why? Remember at the beginning when you said, how to you get a tattoo? Do you any gang? No tattoos, no gang. But remember when you said, why did you give them your phone? Because the government, you're not really, they don't, you know, it's your government. Well, I challenged the jurisdiction of my government and they didn't like that challenge so they threw me in jail um they threw you in like actual jail yep 12 days come on now

yeah what jail uh i was at the logan uh county jail logan uh in the sheriff's department whatever you're the only surgeon in the in the cell block oh yeah i think it was the only white collar there only white collar guy there at all everybody else was drug addicts and there were some murders and rapists and you spent 12 days in jail i spent 12 days in jail i spent 12 days in jail that time, yes. Why? Well, because I challenged their jurisdiction. I filed a motion that said that they don't have jurisdiction over me. And, you know, trying to go, some people claim it's like the sovereign citizen or state national route or, you know, whatever. Basically, I was just saying, you know, you guys are overstepping your bounds here. You don't have the authority to do this. And you

don't have the authority to do this. And they didn't like that. So the judge says, I don't like you, and I don't like what it is that you're doing, and he threw me in jail. Who's the judge? Judge Bennett. Jared, Jared Bennett. That is totally bonkers. What does your family say?

Well, they were like, Dad, what can you do to get out of jail? So in order to do that, I had to fire my attorneys and everything else and go pro se, which means defending yourself. And so then I had to hire an attorney to then file a motion to say that I had, I renege on what it was that I said before. I don't believe in that.

It was, you know, it was a mistake on my part. So please let me out of jail so I can take care of my family. And so they did. They put me on an ankle monitor for 90 days. What? And I was on house arrest and I could go from my office to. Is this true? this is true it's it's true absolutely all of it is i have pictures i was even accused of being a

of being a consider of continuing my conspiracy theory because i i i was told that i said that my ankle monitor probably had a microphone and transmitter in it and i was covering it with a towel so people couldn't listen well your iPhone definitely does so like why is it crazy to think your ankle monitor does. I don't think I said that, but even if I did, I mean, the point is, that's true. But they brought that, they brought that up in court to try to keep me in jail. Because you're not allowed to have conspiracy theories. You're allowed to think whatever the fuck you want in this country, by the way, I'll remind you. Not anymore. So did you ever, because I'm a few years younger than you were basically the same generation and

went to similar high schools in a similar region. So I get, I know what your world, I mean, I know the world that you grew up in. Did you ever think, like, I'm just not going to participate. I'm not going to do this. Like, I'm armed and come and get me, bitch. Well, by this time, oh, no, actually, by that, yeah. Did I think about it? Well, you could see how you could become Randy Weaver really quick.

Yes. Did I think about that? The absolute thing is yes. Of course. So I'm literally thinking, okay, how do I board out my windows? Yeah. Okay, how do I put little holes in it? 100%.

You're absolutely right. Did I think about it? Yeah, I'm not suggesting that anyone do that. Like, they murdered Randy Weaver's wife and child and dog. Like, you don't win going Branch Davidian, but ever. However, I certainly understand the impulse. Right. Especially if you grew up in a free country.

You're like, well, you can't do this. Right. What was 12 days in jail like? Well, the first four days I was in, so they have a. rule when you get into jail at Logan, the Logan County Jail there, that you have to do 48 hours. Your first 48 hours is in solitary confinement because they want to make sure that you're not tweaking on drugs and that you're not going to freak out. And so before you go to your, you know, regular cell block that- tweaking on drugs, you're a surgeon. Like, what the

I get, I get, I get, I didn't get any special treatment there either one way or the other, okay? But the rule also said that it's 48 hours. They did this to me on the Friday afternoon before Memorial Day weekend, so my 48 hours didn't start clicking until Tuesday morning at 7 o'clock. So I was in solitary confinement, Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday night, and Monday night. I got out of myself for one hour a day. And because I was in this, you know, this whatever state, I can't remember what they called it, what the state, you know, what they do for that, that solitary confinement state for that 48 hours,

but it doesn't start until then. So then they gave me a benefit is that on Tuesday afternoon at like 4 o'clock, they said, okay, well, you know, we'll move you to your cell block. And so then they moved me from there to kind of award a pod with a bunch of bunk beds

and 26 or 27 other, you know, cellmates in there, which was obviously a lot better because you can have some communication and talk to people and I had phone access and, you know, and everything else. But what were those days in solitary like? um boring uh you know you got out of you they would bring you out of your cell to eat literally for 20 minutes

and then they'd send you back in um and then they would combine your lunch or your dinner on alternating days with your one hour of time where you could just kind of walk around in the cell block how was the food books um food was i don't know jail food um um just plastic trays with a plastic fork that, you know, if you put too much on your plastic fork, it would collapse because it couldn't be stiff enough for you to use it as a weapon. You know, it was just green beans, corn, hot dogs. I think there were a couple times where we had a burger.

But it was. So that was my first time in jail My second time in jail was I got the Marshal Service showed up So we had So I got my ankle monitor off At the end of the summer of 2022 Okay

No sorry Enkel monitor This is so crazy I just want to like What about the politicians in your state The supposedly Nobody said a fucking word Nobody said a word

At that time It's the most shameful period in American history by far. By the way, if those people ever take power again, this will be every day. Those people are really dangerous. So I get my ankle monitor off, like end of August, beginning of September of 2023. So now I'm kind of like, the last thing I want to do is kind of rock the boat and do anything. Ankle monitor, do you have to shower with it and keep it on it? it's on it's just they strap this thing on and if you cut it off it sends like some sort of

you know it's got a really loud beep and siren or something in it so it's like a dog collar like you're an animal right right they put a tag in your ear not no that not yet they didn't they didn't get to that point yet um so following that um we had a motion to we filed a motion to dismiss my case based upon the Chevron Doctrine and how the CDC was overstepping their bounds, the judge denied that. They have no legislative authority. They have no legislative authority, none. There's no law.

There's no law. There's no legislative authority. By the Pharisees. But the judge didn't grant our motion to dismiss. They had a motion simultaneously to preclude me from using a necessity defense. And basically, a necessity defense is that what the treatment is that I was doing, was less dangerous than the treatment that was the alternative, and which I truly believed was true. Why else would you do it?

The judge granted them that motion, which then meant that I couldn't bring in any patients that came to me and talk them about the reasons why. Wait, they can tell you what defense you can offer? That's another really good question, Tucker. How do they get to decide what your defense is? I mean, what is going on? Yeah. I mean, that's exactly my, I had almost the same exact motion was emotion, which was I laughed and giggled and was like, I thought I lived in the United States and I'm allowed to present any defense that I want to. But no, in this case, a necessity defense was not permitted. So that means I couldn't bring any vaccine injured patients in. To talk about...

Wait, who decides? The judge decided this. So I had a magistrate judge and he was, that was the judge Bennett who threw me in jail the first time. Okay. And then we had this motion to dismiss. So any dispositive motions go to your actual district judge. Okay. So the district judge that heard my case is, you know, is different than the magistrate judge.

And then his name is Howard Nielsen. And so Judge Nielsen heard my motion to dismiss and heard their motion for necessity. He denied my motion to dismiss and he upheld their motion for the necessity defense. So that means I could not bring in any patients that wanted the treatment that they got and have them tell their story why they came to me. I could not present any data or evidence in support of the reasons why I treated people the way I did. I couldn't bring in any experts to also support all that. So I couldn't bring in the Peter McCullas and the Mary Talley Bowdens and, you know, Pierre Corrie's and anybody else in there to help me with my case.

And, you know, a real good friend of mine, Jim Thorpe, wouldn't, you know, none of these people. I couldn't bring anybody in as an expert witness on my behalf. And then I couldn't bring in any patients that had been vaccine injured. So all the people that I know that were vaccine injured to kind of help prove my case. So I was precluded from doing any of that. So that was on the 19th of October. So they just, just to restate, they charge you with these crimes, they threaten you with life in prison, they throw you in jail for 12 days to start, and then they decide what your defense can be. Correct.

That's our system now, right? So the day before we had trial, sorry, the day before we had the hearing, so on October 18th, I sent a text message. to two of my co-defendants because I knew that they were struggling with their attorneys. They weren't, you know, communication wasn't the greatest, and they didn't know about the hearing. And so I texted him and said, hey, we have a hearing tomorrow. It's our motion to dismiss their motion for the necessity of defense. I think you should be there with your attorneys. Ra, rah, let's go, our case can go away, you know, whatever, okay?

That's it. All right. We go to the hearing. They are at the hearing. I told you, you know, we lost both motions, essentially. The day after Donald Trump was elected, I had two marshals show up in my office and Perp walked me out of my office for communicating with my co-defendants about the case.

How did they know? One of the people that I was communicating with turned me in. So my ex-office manager gave them a copy of the text messages. Why did she do that? Because she wanted out of the case. So she took a plea deal. And she took a plea deal for... Well, she's going to have to live with that.

She's going to have to live with that. She's ultimately not a very nice person, and so I don't know that it's really going to give her that much heartache. I hope it does. So what happened? The U.S. Marshals show up. So the U.S. Marshals show up, put me in chains, ankle chains. Actually?

Actually, ankle chains, and cuffs behind my back with chains connected between my ankles and feet because I was such a flight risk, took me to jail, and I spent 30, I spent 22 days in jail that time. Are you serious? Same jail? No different jail this time. So I had to learn a whole new routine. What was your family saying at this point? Well, what are they saying? You know, they're they're struggling obviously um it's uh you know i'm the breadwinner in the family you know i'm you know i'm not making any money um and you know my fiancee now was kind of trying to keep things to float um my parents are doing whatever they can to kind of communicate with my attorneys and do

anything and you're like 59 years old at this point 59 years old um and uh you know like i said I'm barely surviving in my practice anyway. And with a federal indictment hanging over you, nobody wants to really have a lot to do with you. So it's, you know, it's, it was hard. It's really hard. Had to sell. I owned a house, summer house with a really good friend of mine,

and had to sell out my partnership on it that I'd owned for 17 years. And it was, you know, it was a getaway for us. We loved it. It was a place up in Bear Lake. And, you know, I had to sell out from that. But, you know, the money that I got from that went, it was all gone in like three weeks. To lawyers. All to lawyers or to pay off my business expenses.

I mean, I was in jail for, you know, 22 days. I didn't get any income, none. I'm not able to advertise. And so I can't, you know, all my money, all my discretionary money was going towards my attorneys or fees or this or you know running my business or you know anything um and uh you know so it was um you know it was those 22 days were really hard um i got out the so here's more here's more of an example of them coming after me okay i told you that in may of 20 23 i found that motion kind of as a state national sovereign guy, you know, government doesn't have jurisdiction over me.

I filed the same motion as, as Carrie did, the exact same motion. We just changed the name on the motion. Both of us filed it. They put me in jail for 12 days. They let her go home. Carrie would be the woman who ratted you out. Yes. Okay.

And then later, when I went to jail the second time, and it was Carrie and Chris and myself in this three-way text, okay? And Carrie was the one that turned it in. so obviously she's not going to go to jail, but they arrested Chris too, okay? And two days later, we had a hearing in terms of the disposition. Are we going to let them go again or, you know, are we going to keep them in jail? Well, they let her go and they kept me in jail for the exact same violation. But because I'd had that previous violation, okay, I'm now considered a flight risk and a danger to the community. And so now I need to-

A danger to the community? The prosecutor said it in the hearing. Which prosecutor? Todd Bouton. Todd Bouton, who is still, I'm really going to try to make a note to myself to just say his name as often as I can until he loses his job and doesn't get hired at a big white shoe law firm and rewarded for this Todd Bouton. Okay. Yeah. So I was a danger of the community and I'm a flight risk in spite of the fact that, you know, I've got no property anywhere else.

The only property I have is in my town. I have my kids going to school there. My mom lives with me part of the time, you know, everything else. There's no, you know, flight risk for what? So who cares? I don't have my passport anymore. You didn't do anything wrong. We got 50 million illegals in the country.

Drug cartels control huge parts of the southwestern United States. Like, this is so crazy. I can't even believe this is real. Right. And look, and I'm not the only one. If you fled the United States, the only loser would be the United States. We need people like, no, I'm serious. Like, flight risk?

Flight risk and a danger to the community. What am I going to do to the community, right? So you think Todd Bouton still works at the U.S. Attorney's Office? As far as I know. I mean, I, you know, but yes. I do think your senators should know that. I think if Senator Lee knew that. Well, he does know that.

He was at my, so he was at my meeting that I had with, you know, Attorney General Bondi, you know, a few weeks ago. So he knows. okay well i think they should fire tub out and immediately because this is such an abusive power just crushing a man no one comes to your aid right what was the 22 days in jail like the so this time was actually a little bit harder the last time i told you remember i had like four days in solitary and then i had the other eight days or so kind of an award where you're out and you can talk to people um this time i was in um i was in the salt lake county jail system same same sheriff's

department, but they just had different rules. And all federal inmates in that jail can never get below medium security. Medium security is four hours a day out of your cell, and the rest is in your cell. And you can't go outside. You get books delivered once a month. You get commissary. that you can order online or whatever you have a tablet that you have access to during your four hours of out time. But they had some sort of an electric problem in the grid with control of the cells, doors, and everything else that they had cut our time down to two hours a day. So I was in my cell 22 out of 24 hours for those full 22 days. In a cell with like in a cell, in a cell, an by 10 so seven by 10 so yeah 22 out of 24 hours what did that do to you um two things i think um

uh the first thing that it did to me is it um built up my resilience that i wasn't going to let them mess with me anymore good you know that that it just didn't matter what they're going to do to me that I'm going to fight back. And then the second thing that it did is it made me realize how much of a scam the fucking jail system is because my first cellmate in there was an illegal, nice kid,

didn't speak much English, he was only myself for 24 hours, but that poor guy had supposedly had two DUIs that he didn't even know about. They never pulled him over for driving they just issued a DUI warrant out for him. He didn't even know that those DUI warrants were out for him.

The third time, he did get pulled over for DUI. And for some reason, they felt like he was a maximum security guy. They put him in maximum security where he was in lockdown for two and a half months. A guy who's 23 years old who made some mistakes driving a car once, don't even know about his first two cases they're not even cases that they he never got pulled over he just somebody said hey he's been drinking

and that's the car that he was driving but they put him how is that guy a max security risk okay it's a scam these jails go around and all they do it's a per capita count okay and morning and night

they want to know how many people are in each ward and in each you know medium I mean, you know, minimal security, medium security and high security or max security, whatever. And they get more money. That's all it is. It's just a money scam and a money grubbing operation. That's all it is. The day that I got released, there were 17 people in my time block. And I think, I want to say there were about two hour time blocks for get released because they get, they let you get out of your jail. They take you to this desk. You sign your forms. You get your clothes. You get the stuff that they arrested you with and all of that stuff.

it takes about two hours to process a certain number of people. There are 17 of us total, okay, in that two-hour time block. 13 out of the 17 of those had nowhere to go. Nowhere. No family, no friends, nothing. They got a bus pass to take them down to wherever it is they want a single one, like a one-way bus pass. Where do you think those guys are going to go?

Right back to where they were before, you know, right back to what it was, and in 48 hours they're going to be right back where they are. There was no attempt at all. all to help these people to do anything, nothing, okay? And that's why I'm saying you just realize that it's just such a scam for these people just, they want the recidivism. And if the recidivism rate drops below 90%, then they're hurting. So they want to do whatever it is that they can to kind of make sure that those people is too big. You can't treat people as human beings. The government's too big. It's all unsustainable. It's like this scale is just not. You either have to go full

1984 and just facial recognition to go to the bathroom. Like you have to have like totalitarian control or, you know, you wind up with this where it's just people get crushed right in the gears. And now it, wow, this is a really racing story. So you get it at jail the second time. Again, I just want to remind anyone who's made it this far in the conversation, your crime was not prescribing the COVID facts, not giving. administering the COVID facts.

Right, right, yeah. Then what happens? Then your trial is still in progress. So we get out of jail, or I get out of jail, and now we're planning on going to trial. I mean, there's a whole other story behind it, but it's, you know, it's kind of long. And we finally are scheduled for trial to go in July. They do that superseding indictment. This July.

So July, just last month. Yeah, like six weeks ago. And they did that superseding indictment where they had to take out that other agents, you know, kind of evidence. Because he turned out to be a drug dealer. Because he turned out. But you're the criminal. Criminal. Right.

Okay. So they do the superseding indictment, add the 20 years to the evidence tampering charge. Todd Bouton is the one who added 20 years. Todd Bouton added the 20 years. Someone's got to pay for this. And I think it should be Todd Bouton. And, but they do. did all of this before Donald Trump was, you know, inaugurated because they were worried.

They actually wanted me to go to trial before the inauguration, because we were originally scheduled for to go to trial on January 15th. So they wanted the trial to start before Trump was going to be inaugurated because they felt that Trump was going to pull the plug on this. Well, Donald Trump gets inaugurated after the superseding indictment, and he announces that weaponization work group that was for the January 6 people. And then Pam Biden, Bondi comes in, and she kind of puts the weaponization work group together. And she assigns the people that are supposed to go on this committee. It's the deputy attorney general.

It's the assistant attorney for civil rights, the assistant attorney for legal services, and then a number of other people that are on this committee. Okay. So as soon as they do that, we submit a packet to them to this weaponization work group for because one of the things in that um it wasn't an executive order but the announcement was that we're going to go after any of the weaponization you know cases of the previous administration and i was just like well we fit in this category there i mean they've weaponized the whole yeah you think um so we go through that um we submit this packet we get an answer back um we had to then go to

the acting U.S. attorney in the state of Utah to ask him whether he would dismiss the case voluntarily without sending it to the weaponization work group. He said, no, we're not planning on dismissing it. So we sent that off to back up to the DOJ in Washington, D.C. The assistant attorney general of Utah was not going to dismiss it. So the acting attorney general, John Vitti, was not going to dismiss the case. He says, no, we think we have a good case. We think we can win it. We're not planning and dismissing the case. Who is he? Well, he's the acting attorney general that, you know, took over for Trina Higgins who got fired. U.S. Attorney.

Yeah, the Fed Attorney General. Oh, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Acting U.S. attorney, the head federal prosecutor. The head federal prosecutor. Sorry about that. So the acting U.S. attorney said, no, we're not going to dismiss the case. Is he still the acting U.S. attorney? He's still the acting U.S. attorney there, yes.

How? None of these people get fired. What is going on? None of these people get fired. they don't this showing this level of cruelty to a fellow american to an american citizen is just disqualifying what should be it should be i you know i've had this conversation with friends of mine what happened to the humanity right of our society what happened to crushing people and they're not even bad people i mean in a world with a lot of bad people by the way there are a lot of bad people out there and but again

This is a system that's built on winning. It's not built on the justice. It's not built on truth. It's built on winning. And when they see a case that they can win, then they're going to go after you. And they really thought that they were going to win and they really wanted to win

because they really wanted to show, don't fuck with us because this is what's going to happen with you. That brings up levels of hostility in me that I feel guilty about. So, okay. so as of six weeks ago you were on trial for your literally for your life yes so we filed this with the weaponization work group eventually the weaponization work group said no we're not going to we're not going to we're not going to intervene in this case what right why uh that's a really good question

i don't know why um it was i got my email from the doj and dc or my attorney got the email uh Um, probably within a, within a few days or within a week of, um, and I don't know if it's just coincidence. I don't think, do you remember, um, Ed Martin, right? Ed Martin was nominated, was nominated for the D.C. circuit court. That's right. And, and one of our senators, Comer, I think, said he wouldn't vote for him. I can't remember who the, who, who was. Yeah, no, he's been in this room telling his story. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, so he got, you know, his nomination gets pulled. And then the very next day, he gets assigned as the pardon's attorney at the DOJ. Right about that time was when I got notified that they weren't going to take my case.

I don't think Ed Martin knew about my case at the time. I'd be surprised. And that's what I've heard as well. But I just don't think he had enough time to kind of get in there and figure things out. I mean, it takes time. You take the effective ones out immediately. They know who you are. They can smell it on you. So anyway, and I don't think that my case ever made it to the committee. I think my case was headed off before it got to the committee.

I can't prove that. I don't know that. Doctors have an inalienable right to choose the treatment. They deem most effective for their own patient. Like, that's just a foundational fact of American medicine, and it has to remain that. So, and by the way, they've lectured us on that for, like, my entire life, 40 years. It's between a doctor and his patients. Okay.

All right. All right now. And they not only strip that right from you and from your patients, they threw you in jail twice and then try to send you away for life for exercising a foundational right. So that's all I would need to know if I was on that working group or that. committee or whatever they fucking call it just like no this is outrageous and anyone who prosecuted this guy is fired immediately like that's just not hard this is not a tough one right this is not a let's split the baby well you and i have you and i have common sense and you're right you don't need to

split the baby in this case um i didn't keep anybody from being vaccinated that wanted to be vaccinated right and i and i didn't vaccinate the people that didn't want to be vaccinated exactly thank you and i took care of my patients the way they were in front of me and i didn't fool any anybody. It's not like I was telling him that I was doing something when I wasn't or not. It's not like you told him the vaccine was safe and effective and it would prevent transmission of COVID. Correct. Right. Because there were quite a few doctors who did that. That's called fraud. And none of them has been indicted for it. Right. Right. Okay. Sorry. Whoa. I'm almost going to have to bring this to close because you're making me so mad. I fear of my cardiovascular health.

So I'll tell you that. So in the end, it gets denied. Like I said, I then go to trial. July 7th was the beginning of the trial. This is like a bad dream, dude. So I go to trial. There was a small rally for us the day our trial started. We actually had the Speaker of the House. The state of Utah was there on our behalf.

Good. A couple of other politicians were there as well. Carrie Ann Lisbonie, you know, Kristen Chevroier, you know, gave her support. and you know there were a couple people that had run for um for the house u.s house that were there so people that were pretty well known um and uh they you know they formed a rally for us and um you know with signs and everything supporting us um we had jury selection for three days um during that time uh ed zahl who was one of the producers for the movie died suddenly um was there and he was documenting everything he was doing

video and pictures and cameras. He was writing down notes. He was in the courthouse for all five days. And he published an article midweek that basically accused Pam Bondi of personally prosecuting me because it's her DOJ that was letting this go and she should know better. That article went viral, got picked up by Margie Taylor Green, got picked up by Thomas Massey, and Senator Lee, and then we had a... The three members of Congress, I love. Okay, I'm so glad to hear that. And then picked up, and then we had another larger rally on Friday,

and my son spoke at both of those rallies. One of his speeches went viral, 1.7 million views. And then later, and so by this time we're in trial, I actually got accused of jury tampering because we reposted the links to the rallies that were happening. The prosecutors accused us of jury tampering. Thankfully, the judge shot them down and said, I think we still have a First Amendment in our country. And so then trial goes through Friday. I thought we had done a really nice job.

I mean, their witnesses were the director of this. CDC COVID task force, a guy by name of Chris Dugger, and he called us the enemy. The people that were vaccine hesitant. The vaccine people were the enemy. He said that in court that we were the enemy, that they had to. The enemy. Yeah, that they had to change their policies because the anti-vax people were the enemy. The enemy of the American citizens.

The American citizens were the enemy. The federal agency is calling American citizens the enemy because they disagree. Yes. Yes. You just shut it down. I mean, I don't understand. Okay. We had the director of Barta, Gary Disbrow, the director of Barta, the bio, gosh, I wish I could remember these acronyms or what it stands for.

But essentially, they were the ones that were in charge of, in charge of the pharmaceutical companies getting the COVID shots and determining whether they, you know, who was going to get what. and everything else and looking at quote unquote safety and all of the stuff of these COVID vaccines and giving them the license to be able to distribute these products. And he was the director of that. The interesting thing was

is that he came all the way across from Washington, D.C. to testify in my case. And there was a contract that he said that he was intimately involved in negotiating with between the Department of Defense. Again, this is what you mentioned. earlier, the DOD and the pharmaceutical companies, okay? They tried to submit this contract redacted. We objected, and you can't submit a redacted contract. The judge said, you're right,

get the contract unredacted or you can't do it. They actually got the contract unredacted, and then they decided to not present the contract. I don't know what was in the contract. My attorneys do because it was an attorney's eyes only but my supposition my speculation is is that i think a couple things one is i think that the contract predated covid okay that's my speculation is is that this contract was you know predated this they started in negotiations sometime in 2019 okay just getting ready um and then it showed uh how involved our government was and our department of defense was in terms of development and manufacture and everything else of this vaccine. And I believe that it showed that they did everything and then they just slapped the labels on it for the pharmaceutical companies.

It was called Operation Warpspeed. Operation. Who does operations? Right. Does they do operations? No, they have product rollouts. Does Pfizer operations? I don't think so.

They're not occupying any countries. So the U.S. military does operations. Correct. That's who does operations. Right. And that's why it was run by General Perna. Operation Warpspeed was run by a general in our, you know. So did the, pardon my ignorance, though, in this interview,

ignorance has really helped me because I'm like shocked by everything you've said. And your case got almost no publicity outside of Utah. They didn't want publicity, man. Yeah, well, you didn't get any. I would have been on it a lot earlier if I'd known it was happening. I tried to, at the very beginning of my indictment, I tried to get my indictment pushed back. because I didn't even have an attorney yet.

So we're talking about January 23. So January 26 was when... Had your real estate. Arraignment was January 26th, and I tried to get it pushed back because I didn't have an attorney. And I was told at the time that, no, we can't push it back

because we have media there and everything else and we don't want to change the date. So we will assign you an attorney for your arraignment only. Okay? When I showed up for my arraignment, there were exactly zero mainstream media people there.

We had a rally that day, too. we had a couple of hundred people that were out on the steps that were there supporting us and everything else because we had put out the word but i truly believe that even though we were told that the media was supposed to be there they didn't want to delay it any further because they didn't want to give us the opportunity to get more media publicity to have more people there um so they didn't want media that's why they that's why they were going against the necessity defense they didn't want us to put the COVID vaccine on trial um they didn't want us to put all this evidence that we could have put into the COVID vaccine is the center of the story

The government property you were indicted for destroying was the COVID-Vax. Right. The reason that you didn't want to administer the COVID-Vax is because you thought the COVID-Vax was ineffective at best and poison out worse. Right. The whole story is the COVID-vax. Correct. Right.

But we weren't allowed to talk about. Yeah, in our system, they can indict you, threaten you with life in prison, throw you in jail twice, and then decide how you can defend yourself. Right. So one last thing that I'll tell you, and that'll get your blood boiling going even further. I can't handle it anymore. doctor. Okay. Right before trial started, the prosecution filed four more motions, and basically they were a motion. So in our country, fraud requires intent, okay? You have to intend,

you have to intentionally defraud somebody. You have to have the intent that you're taking money from somebody that you're telling you we're going to do something and you didn't do it or you're going to use it for some other reason. And that was your intent, okay? So they filed four more motions that the judge actually didn't deny to preclude me from if I got on the stand from even me talking about what my intent was. So if I'd had to get on the stand, it's very likely that I wasn't even going to be able to tell the story that I just told you. In other words, the judge was going to keep me from saying, well, Dr. Moore, you're not, you can't say why it was that you're doing it. How about you just say, no, I'm guaranteed by the bill of

rights in fact first line item in the bill of rights the right to say what i think is true it's called the first amendment and i'm going to say this in court what would happen back to salt like city jail probably probably so how are you here well so that friday at the end of court with all of the publicity marjorie taylor green getting a hold of uh she she said i am sending a letter right now to A.G. Bondi, I believe she got on the phone with her. I think... Did you know Marjorie Taylor Green? I did not know her from Adam. Marjorie Taylor Green has helped more people individually than any member of Congress. Of course, she never gets credit for anything. But that's true. So she's just moved by a sense of

justice. She's moved by a sense of justice coming from the state of Georgia with me in the state of Utah. Okay. Thomas Massey put out a really nice tweet about us that went viral as well. Senator Mike Lee did. Senator Mike Lee finally contacted Attorney General Bondi as well. Friday, so Saturday morning, our case got dismissed. Attorney General Bondi put out a tweet and said, you know, Dr. Moore gave his parents a choice or gave his patients a choice that the federal government did not. I am dismissing this case on my direction. This ends now, those three words in.

And then five days later, I'm in her office meeting her, MTG. and Mike Lee, you know, so I, you know, like I said, I don't. So a week before you were facing life in prison, and the next thing you know, you're in the Attorney General's office. Yes. What was that date that that happened? So July 12th was the day, it was a Saturday, which was the day that my case got dismissed.

And so July 17th, we were in her office. So six weeks ago, how's your head now? Like, how's your life? It's been a whirlwind. It's been a big change. We are trying to put our pieces back together. I'm trying to... So just to restate the timeline really quick,

from the day the FBI showed up at your office, scared the hell out of your lone patient until July 17th. How long was that? So two and a half years. So two and a half years just gone from your life at age 60, just gone. Right. And I'm having to rebuild my practice. And as I say start over,

I mean, I'm not really kind of. formally starting over but yeah it's rebuilding your appetite for starting over i can say since i'm 56 diminishes with age so like you don't want to do that at this age it's just like not you should be and why do i want to stay in medicine right yeah i mean that's that's the question that i struggle with every day because 99% of the people out there believe that i didn't do what was right or that I was not that what I did was wrong. So if you got a bunch just a cross-section of American physicians and said, you know, knowing the evidence, does Dr. Moore deserve to be sent to jail twice,

you know, with MS-13 and then do life in prison? How many do you think would agree? Oh, I think that's a different question. I don't know that a lot of them would agree. I think that I, but I would say that there's probably a third of them that would. there's still a third of the doctors that are out there that would say that what I did was wrong. I falsified medical records.

These are the people who lied about the effectiveness of the COVID-Vax. Correct. Right. Okay. That's why I don't go to the doctor. I mean, this is like, this is an, I'm not sure how you fix this. I don't either.

I don't either. But that's the struggle with my profession right now, is that it's so, it's so bought and paid for by the pharmaceutical industry from top to bottom. They own the textbooks, they own the medical schools, they own the journals, they own our conferences, they own our medical organizations, the AMA, the American College of Obstetrics. Look, the AMA has a code of ethics. The code of ethics says it's a printed code of ethics that says that as a physician, you are going to

come into conflict with the law. We know that that's going to happen. You have two things that you need to do as a physician. The first one is you need to try to change the law so that it can comport back into your code of ethics that you're taking care of your patient. And if your second thing is if you can't do that, you have to take care of your patient that's in front of you. I don't see the AMA standing behind me and helping me out. Is the AMA that's for late-term abortion? I mean, shut up AMA. I guess. Disgusting. Right. It is. Lliers. Why don't you go to work for Bobby Kennedy. I don't know if he called me, I'd probably consider it.

But, you know, he's having a tough time right now, too. Yeah, I know. You know, the whole, Dan Bongino and Cash Patel are having a hard time. Okay? The stink is deep. Okay. And, you know, I mean, what was it?

Just a couple of weeks ago, Dan Bongino said that if you knew what I knew, you know um you'd struggle too yeah he told me that i love dan he called me he was upset he didn't give me any specifics no classified information right everything's classified all of their wrongdoings are classified right all of my sins are public but um but it's it's such a rot that goes so deep it's been going on for 250 years and it's only gotten it's only look you know this it's human nature You don't, you can't, if you don't get caught in a lie and you don't suffer the consequences of it, then you're going to lie again. And our government and our politicians and our industry and everybody has been lying to us for decades, for centuries. And it's just, it's lie upon lie upon lie.

And you get to the point where, oh my gosh, you just can't, you can't get to the bottom of it. No. All made possible by secrecy. all made possible by secrecy. I'm really, once again, I consider you a hero. I'm grateful for what you did. I'm grateful you're still here. I hope you recover.

I can't imagine what it must have done to you. And I hope that the rest of your life is spent in a really useful pursuit. I hope that you find that thing. And maybe it's not medicine, but I think you've got a, your example is inspiring. And I think you've got a lot to give to the country. And I hope you find a way to give it. Well, I appreciate you have me on, Tucker. Oh, I mean it. Thank you, Doctor.

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