The Tucker Carlson Show - Billy Bush: The Infamous Trump Tape, Secrets of Corporate Media, & Megyn Kelly v. Harvey Weinstein

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

Eight years ago NBC News secretly colluded with the Washington Post to derail Donald Trump’s candidacy. Billy Bush was there and tells the story for the first time.  (00:00) Why Corporate Media Management Is So Corrupt (04:57) Megyn Kelly vs. Harvey Weinstein (09:59) What Al Roker Is Really Like (12:33) Billy Bush’s Rise in Media (28:30) The Infamous Trump Tape That Got Billy Fired (44:00) Why Trump Was So Good at TV (55:53) The Beginning of Trump Derangement Syndrome Paid partnerships with: Public Square: https://PublicSquare.com/ Jase Medical: Promo code “Tucker” for extra discount at https://Jasemedical.com Starting January 13th, you can listen to “Hot Mics with Billy Bush" at TuneIn.com/hotmics and watch the show at YouTube.com/@HotMicswithBillyBush Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When you realize, I mean, you obviously learned the hard way, I did too, but the people who run the business are just not good people. There's some friendly people, there's certainly some smart people, there are some people who are good people, but in general, I worked at three different TV networks full-time and then two others part-time, and I just found as a rule management, they just weren't people you would make the godparents to your kids. A lot of people are afraid. I mean, I just think it's like... Is that what it is? Well, certainly linear television, you know, now the big companies, I think people are terrified. You know, you see management,

they don't know where they're going to be the next day. Welcome to the Tucker Carlson Show. We bring you stories that have not been showcased anywhere else. And they're not censored, of course, because we're not gatekeepers. We are honest brokers here to tell you what we think you need to know and do it honestly. Check out all of our content at TuckerCarlson.com. Here's the episode. So leadership is hard to find and gutsy leadership. You look back at the days of great sitcom television.

You look at Brandon Tartikoff and Grant Tinker and some of these great legends that said, you know what, we're going to stick with this Se it's he's not the ratings are terrible but that's right what a there's something there and we're gonna hold on to it and we're just that you know as your audience is shrinking and the gains are shrinking people are just terrified they're looking over the shoulder they're wondering you know am i the next to get fired? I mean, that's absolutely right.

I forgot Seinfeld was a bomb at first. It was not doing well. I totally forgot that. Imagine someone pulling that off the air. They would do it now. Didn't work after two episodes or three episodes. This didn't work after a year

or two years. No, it's incredible. Right? They had the runway though because they were making so much money. NBC was making money in every category then.

And it had some good lead in and all that stuff, and then they stuck with it, and now it's, you know, makes more money in reruns still than most original shows. That's incredible. Yeah. You've been in TV for like 30 years, or in broadcasting certainly for 30 years. Yeah.

I still think, though, even when the business was making a ton of money, it was a dishonest business. That's the way it felt to me anyway, when I started at CNN. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, I look at all the places I've been, it's, I think of what I think of our, I think of the moral high ground, like it doesn't exist. What does that mean? People grappling for the moral high ground. Like, it doesn't exist. What does that mean? People grappling for the moral high ground. Anyone who gets fired based upon, you know, for moral purposes. They try to use the morality clause, which every talent has in their contract.

The morality clause. They lunge for it. This is coming from people who don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to that. It's like, it's just a big laugh. Everyone, you know, the firers are all completely morally compromised. So, well, that's, I mean. I would just look at each other.

Let's all look at each other for a second. Really? Do any of us belong standing on this? This is all about gain. Okay, who's up, who's down? Then why? No, of course I know what you're talking about. And I think that from, I'm obviously long out of it,

but I think of that from afar when I see these people getting all huffy about this or that moral transgression. I'm like, wait a second. You know, you slept with my intern. You killed your own intern or whatever. You know what i mean let's call the whole thing off no that's right but um why i'm just like general question but why why not just call you in and say you know this isn't working for us financially why do they feel

the need to dress it up not not i'm not speaking specifically of you but it's always like well that's the megan Kelly situation, right? I mean, I love Megyn. Why not call her in and say, we gave you way too big a budget. This is giant. And the ratings aren't there. And also you're doing something different. Megyn, I love Megyn.

She's a friend. She was a ferocious attorney interviewing people at nine o'clock at night. And then, you know, the daytime show with, you-da-da-da, it's, you know, like here's the fresh muffins, everybody. And, you know, it just, all of a sudden, it's like, well, it's like Martha Stewart years ago had a version of The Apprentice after Donald Trump had The Apprentice.

They gave one to Martha. They thought that would be great. But Martha had a different idea. Her idea was, I'm going to write sweet handwritten notes on pink stationery. I'm sorry, we have to let you go. No, that's not the Martha we want. The Martha we want, the Martha we love is cold and tough.

And a nut cutter. Yeah, nut cutter. You're out of here, bitch. You're gone. That's the Martha we wanted. So, you know, this is, it happens that you have to stay, I guess, you know. But Megan is such a great example, though. So they hire Megan.

She's, you know, got a kind of... Fired by the same man that fired me. And instead of saying, hey, the ratings don't match the $40 million a year budget or whatever it is uh they fire megan for asking a question about when blackface uh fell out of vogue or was not acceptable at all for halloween and things i mean remember think of all the late night comics who are working today that used to regularly do blackface on their shows okay uh and there was a time where if a girl dressed up as diana ross it was like she legitimately loved diana ross but then you know it it she's all megan did was ask the question when give me a a year or a period when that became absolutely unacceptable to the point that your

career and everything will be taken. So asking that was the equivalent of like lynching a bunch of people in Mississippi. Yeah. And then they trucked out, you know, different people from the network and, you know, Al Roker and Craig Melvin came out and they did a show and they talked about how horrible it was. And so they sent Megan on her way. What Megan did, I think is what you did and said, absolutely not. You'll pay me out in full. My contract will be paid. And I think Megan got all 60 some million dollars or whatever it was to then go off and build what she's built, which is pretty awesome. She's tough. She's a tough woman. She's tough. And she got tougher going through that.

And I think like a lot of people I've known, you either become a better person or a worse person. And she became, I think, a better person. She's a wonderful person. One of my favorite people, actually. So I think it was, you know, a huge victory for her on every level. I was proud of her. She didn't do anything wrong, but ask a question.

I know. She never said, we should be allowed to do blackface again. She didn't say that. Yeah. She said, when was the, all she did was raise the question. Now, remember, this is also retribution. The man that was the chairman of NBC News at the time who fired her, she had recently put out, you know, an email calling him a liar.

Who was that? To the staff, Andy Lack. She called Andy Lack a liar because, you know, an email calling him a liar. Who was that? To the staff, Andy Lack. She called Andy Lack a liar because, you know, she said, wait a minute, we have someone who has corroborated, you know, Rose McGowan, the actress. We have a, who corroborated that, you know, this in the Me Too movement with, in this whole Weinstein case.

So just to refresh for people who don't recall, the allegation was, and I think it was true, that NBC had the goods on Harvey Weinstein, that he was behaving in an abusive way, in a legit abusive way toward women. Yeah, Ronan Farrow was doing his report. Exactly. Yeah. And they sat on it? And Ronan alleges that they sat on it and said, you know, you don't have enough. You don't have anyone who's on camera and in name. And Megan said, wait a minute.

Yeah, Rose McGowan in camera, on camera, in name. She's we've got a name. She'll go. And they, I guess, overlooked that and refused to acknowledge it. And so, but the idea was that, you know, the guy who was president of NBC News at the time is Noah Oppenheim, and he's a script writer. He's really a script writer. And he's so, you know,

does he want to write scripts for Harvey? Who knows? But there's that relationship, and Harvey, you know, was never afraid to pick up the phone. I've had Harvey Weinstein call me, this is a great film, you should have this on your show on Access Hollywood when I was the host, you know, hammering me to have a, he was a, you know, an animal. So he, it seems very likely that he was applying pressure to executives at NBC, including Noah Oppenheim. Yeah, it seems likely.

You have to assume. Well, he would apply pressure to anyone. If little Billy Bush over at Access Hollywood is getting pressured, then you know that today's show is. For sure. So Megan pipes up and says, actually, Andy Lack, her boss, what you're saying is not quite right. And they decide we got to kill this woman. Yeah. So it's retribution clean and simple

retribution and i'm sure megan's lawyer brian friedman who's one of the best you know lawyers in this game turned and said oh no you're not gonna just yeah she has done absolutely nothing wrong nice try you can try and brand her a racist, which she is not, for asking a question, but you are going to pay her out in full. And then she's going to go build her own network. And, by the way, I saw last week that Megan surpassed NBC News and YouTube views on her own. That's so great. So she was crowing about that, and I have to say I smiled. I'm in the comments section if you look down, by the way.

Way to go, girl. I love it. So why, and I'd forgotten this part of it, Al Roker and Craig Melvin are two hosts on NBC, both black, and they torpedoed Meghan? Look, play ball or not, right? I mean, they were asked to appear and talk about the severity of it. The severity of it. The severity of blackface and appropriation and all these things. Look, these types of situations are offered to you, right?

I mean, play ball with the big machine or maybe you're out next too. I will say this, Craig Melvin is a really good guy. I like him a lot. For the two months that I was at the Today Show, he had the office next to mine and we would call in response, sing. I liked the guy so much, I would go, it's a beautiful morning

and then he would finish the lyric and he was just a charmingly lovely guy. Roker, on the other hand, is a bit vindictive. He's not jovial. No? Because you do think fat people are jovial, just by definition almost. Well. I mean, I always assume that.

Don't you? Well. Like Santa Claus, kind of. Yeah, you're supposed to be. Yeah, you're supposed to be. Maybe that makes you mad. But although Al got himself in shape, however he did it, and. Oh, did he?

I haven't seen, I don't have a TV. Well, he's, listen, when I was at the Today Show and I just got there, a producer of mine called me and said, Hey, Al Roker just liked a tweet from someone calling you a white-splaining racist. I said, what? So I looked and said, wait, I'm on the air with him every day. You got to be kidding me. So I went to my boss, the head of NBC, the head of the Today Show Noah Oppenheim and I said hey dude I can't sit on the air with someone who's going to be liking tweets that call me names that are

insane I haven't done anything of the kind I don't know what that even means like what are you talking about so he's like oh my god I'm sorry. And he had to go talk to, you know. He talked, I'll talk to him. But you get to file him under the group of people who did not want me there, right? So there's a group that didn't, and you know, Matt Lauer. Did Roker ever say, I think you're a racist? No.

To your face? Oh, hey, Bushman, how are you? But like this thing. But I could feel like when I got to the Today Show, there was definitely uh wait where'd you been just get access hollywood for 15 years okay in la let me give you the brief of how i got to the today show yeah um i built some leverage i made i got a relationship with the woman who was the head of talent for ABC News, Good Morning America.

Who was that? Her name was Barbara Fedita. She ended up offering me a job. Ben Sherwood was running ABC News at the time. They offered me a job for Good Morning America to leave Access Hollywood and become like a national correspondent, but rotating in in the studio and get your shot, basically. Getting back to me a bit more, how'd you wind up on Access Hollywood? I was, I did something local.

I did some local feature reports back at WNBC in New York after doing radio for six years. Started in radio in New Hampshire, of all places, right out of college. Then I went to D.C., had my own morning show there for five years, like a morning zoo type of morning show. And then I did this local thing on television, just my own feature reports, fun stuff that I would write and edit and like that made me laugh. And people liked it. And so ultimately, they came to me and said, what's your deal? We'd like to have you, we're looking for an East Coast correspondent for our show Access Hollywood. You'll get to do red carpets and meet all kinds of movie stars. Okay. Sounds good to me.

So that I started doing that in the end of 2001 and moved to the Today Show in 2016 and was there for 15 years. What was that like? I mean, it was really fun in the beginning. It was just awesome. Back when must-see TV was on Thursday nights, so the ratings were big. There was car service.

It was super fun. I got to do all these events and I sort of moved my way up. And in 2004, they moved me to Los Angeles to become the host of it. And I'm out there, you know, until I said, God, am I going to die doing this? Like I got to change it up. So I put this like plan into effect to make some inroads but you could have stayed forever right oh i could have stayed forever yeah but i really wanted to get to like a regis philbin style you know morning show yeah fun warm and that was when i made the move to good morning america then nbc said wait a minute, leverage is that thing. They know when you have it or you don't. They knew I had it. They knew I was moving. And so they said, okay, we'll give you

the nine o'clock hour at the Today Show. It's yours. Come on in. When was that? And that was 2000. So I made the move. My first day on the air at the Today Show was at the Rio Olympics. Yeah. Yeah, in Brazil. In the summer of 16. In the summer of 16, and my last day was October 7. Sorry to laugh. Yeah, it was exactly two months. In the interest of honesty, we went to high school together and dated sisters, so we've known each other for a while. We should get into that. We don't need to get into that, but I'm just saying. Your wife's younger sister, my first love. Yes. And so, obviously, I was watching all this carefully as it unfolded.

I felt phony not saying that. So, you're living in L.A., wife and three kids. You plan to move them back to the East Coast. You go to Rio. Big deal. It's the Olympics. NBC has the Olympics. This is how they're going to roll you out.

Yeah. Right. Heck of a rollout. Heck of a rollout. Viewership's always up, the whole thing. It's the craziest viewership of the cycle, yeah. Yeah. And you get to Rio.

I'll never forget this and you got basically under like right away the knives came out for you on staff right away what happened

well remember the Ryan Lochte story the Ryan Lochte story broke it was big Ryan Lochte was held at gunpoint

overnight they went after swimming competitions he and some other swimmers went out, got drunk, partied, and then they were at a gas station in Rio, and they were held at gunpoint. Anyway, we wake up the morning after this, read it. I'm like, oh, my gosh, this story about Ryan Lochte. Two hours later, somehow, I run into Ryan Lochte, and he's just bumbling down the street with vodka breath.

But he's by himself and just bumbling. And I've got an iPhone on me. And I'm like, this is a huge story. We're just walking down the street in Rio? One of our major athletes held a gunpoint in a foreign country at the Olympics. This is massive. I only have this. So I give it to my co-host and friend who's

with me. I said, roll this. Lottie, come here. And I pull him over and I said, roll the camera. I have a minute and 42 seconds still on here. It's all I got before the Olympic Committee, U.S. Olympic Committee representatives saw me across the street talking to Ryan Lottie on an iPhone and they buck over to stop me. But I get him to tell me what happened. Amazing. And I'm like, wow, because the second week of the Olympics is always a little slow. You got swimming and you got gymnastics and all the big things in the first week.

And it's only track and field. It's like pole vaults. And it's like you need something else, like a storyline would be great. All of a sudden we have Olympic athletesic athletes at gunpoint this is incredible and lochte tells me this story and i go on and well it becomes something else i mean first of all al roker goes crazy on me and he's like no this american apologist stuff begins and the narrative is like what i don't understand so this seems like a legit how could ryan lo Lochte do this? He's a terrible American with this entitled American bravado and his friends because he had torn down a poster outside of the bathroom of this gas station

and all these terrible things that they were doing. No, they were held at gunpoint by terrible people. And I said, wait a minute, we don't know that. This is live on the air. Yeah, live on the air. I said, wait a minute, we don't know that. All we're getting is that Ryan Lochte did all these terrible things from the Minister of Information of the Rio Police,

not known to be the least corrupt police organization in the world. Hello. So I said, hang on for a second why would we take that it's like taking the minister of you know you know what the of uh in gaza they're making the minister to get his statistics you don't someone who's obviously biased so i said uh okay uh just calm. We don't know anything about what these guys did. In the end, when everything came out, Ryan Lochte didn't lie about anything but one thing. He said he was sitting at gunpoint. He was actually kneeling at gunpoint. That's it. So in other words, everything he said was totally true. And the entire US media organization, led by NBC, because we're on the ground totally savage

this guy ryan savaged him how a horrible american entitled you know this this apologist attitude has come you know to uh to think he can do anything he wants victim of a violent crime the victim yeah is you know why do you think they did that and by the I want, and he capitulated and he like did this whole apology thing. And he did an interview with Matt Lauer. He apologized for being held at gunpoint? Oh, he was like, I'm sorry. I guess I did pull the thing down or the, I don't know what. He just apologized for what they told him to apologize for.

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Right, exactly. I mean, he did a reality show for a minute or tried to. Did he dance with the stars, Tucker, like you? I don't know. I never did that, Billy. Yes, you did. That's bullshit. And you were terrible. know i never did that billy yes you did that's bullshit um and you were terrible i didn't do that i think actually i had i was staying at your house during that tom delay

was worse if you were bad well that that's something um but i still don't understand like this this was basically a decision by this was from a viewer's. Al Roker decided to change the story and everyone followed him. Well, he was sipping caperanhas in this cocktail and he started going after me like I'm defending, you know, this Ryan Lochte who behaved like, we need to be able to call out our own people who behaved terribly and poor Ryan. I said, we don't, you can pull it up on YouTube. We don't have the information. We don't know. Just wait.

Wait. And then two weeks later, when the breeze blows through and everything's done, it comes out. Absolutely. Ryan Lochte told the truth. What do you think Roker's so angry about? I mean, he's like a weather guy on some morning show

and he gets paid all this money and everyone's, you know, thinks he's jolly. Everybody wants to be more. Everybody wants to be a great interviewer but you have to prepare for those and you have to be curious and why but what's he mad about he seems to have succeeded far beyond i don't know people in the people in in network you know these big organizations are territorial very territorial you can look back at the stories of, you know, Ashley Banfield's story of, you know, the big wigs ahead of her, keeping her down, not wanting her to rise up. I was always very close to Matt Lauer and Al Roker until I got to the Today Show.

And then I had like targets on my back from the moment I got there. Both of them. There's two worlds. There's the, yeah. And, you know, remember my relationship with them before was as the guy on Access Hollywood who basically would promote them. Right. Right. Our job was to promote everything on NBC. Whether that's The Apprentice or whether that's The Today Show. I am the chief rabble rouser entertainment guy.

We cover everything, but NBC stuff is first. Yes, you can cover 24 on Fox, but first cover Seinfeld because it's on NBC. So we promote our own things. It's just like a football announcer saying, and tonight, don't be a, make sure you catch NCIS LA tonight at something on CBS. It's a lot of promotion. Access Hollywood was basically a promotional vehicle. So when I showed up as, no, I'm now one of you who could potentially replace you one day because you're old, older than I am. And that's just the way it works.

Then, you know, you can feel the energy change. So when I ultimately got fired from NBC, it was a lot to do with the inner workings, the politics of being the new guy there. Did you, what I find so interesting about it, everything you're saying makes sense. Of course, I've seen it a lot. But what's interesting is that nobody said anything to your face that it was all feline passive aggression treachery yeah i've written a i have a great chapter that i wrote and i wrote it years ago so i wouldn't forget any details of what exactly happened with my firing. And it was just, it's unbelievable. I was playing catch up the whole time.

I found out that the Access Hollywood bus tape was in the NBC News building by Matt Lauer. Matt Lauer came to me after I got off the air at the Today Show on a Tuesday morning and he said, "'Hey, what are you gonna do about the tape?' I said, "'What? What do you mean, Matt? He said, the tape, the bus tape, you and Trump and all that. I said, what are you talking about? I said, what do you mean? And I knew what the, I remembered the tape. It's 11 years old at the time. So back up. Just start at the beginning of this story. What was this tape?

When was it shot? It was shot in 2005. It was the end of Access Hollywood was rebuilding a studio, so we had to find a reason to get out of the studio. So we did Access Across America. It started in Miami, and it goes to whatever, to Atlanta, and then it goes to – it works its way back to Los Angeles, giving the studio people enough, the workers enough time to finish a new studio.

So it's just, you know, it was sponsored and the whole thing. But the last stop- How long was it? Was pick up Donald Trump at the Beverly Hills Hotel in Los Angeles and drive him 20 minutes to the studio, deliver him because he's going to make an appearance on Days of Our Lives.

And he's going to be playing him. He's going to be playing a big, gaudy billionaire who gets hit on by, you know, a young starlet. That's his character. Oh. I figured Donald should be able to pull this off so the bus is pulling in and the cameraman okay wait the cameraman get off the bus we got to go down to the end so we can catch your arrival so the cameraman get off and they run 300 yards ahead while the bus is waiting stopped waiting to you know for its to film its approach because this the woman

who he's going to be acting with is waiting and there's a there's a welcoming crew from days of our lives are all waiting and this is the arrival shot so the cameraman gets off he never stops recording they never we're still we're still sitting on the bus with the microphones and he never stopped but they but it's the red light still on. So the audio is still recording as the cameraman runs away. Can't imagine worse luck, right? But who cares? It's just Donald Trump from The Apprentice. And you're just doing this silly little thing.

This is 2005, and we're doing this silly arrival shot. Well, the Donald at that point, while we're waiting, he gets into what he likes to talk about. You don't you don't choose the agenda with donald trump he talks at you and uh you know he started by talking about um my co-host nancy odell and uh and he you know she's so hot. What happened? I handle that beautifully. And he keeps going. I'm sorry.

I'm just too amused. He just starts talking and talking and talking. And, well, everybody knows what he talked about. And then when we arrive to the shot, except for the end part, the most amazing thing about the whole famous line that starts with grab. Yeah. I just can't even say it because it's never funny to me but uh the whole the amazing part about all that is i have no recollection

the first time i ever heard that was 2016 of course days before they fired me because i always remembered it for the personal connection him talking about taking Nancy O'Dell furniture shopping and I thought oh my god that is so funny like he took Nancy O'Dell furniture shopping because he was trying to hook up with her and he's like here let me I'll buy you this coffee I'll buy you an armoire I was like this is so absurd it's oh my god do you think it was true but here's the amazing thing uh oh yeah definitely i got a hundred percent uh i got off the the bus and oh so the cameras are there we return to filming and i'm like hey donald meet the person you're acting with and the whole thing lines up and looks like i'm feeding a wolf to this you know feeding this lovely damsel to this wolf

after what has just been said but no one knows what's just been said. And I don't even recall hearing the thing. Of course. I didn't hear that till 11 years later. So the whole, it's just a giant shit show. Well, but also you work in LA in the middle of Hollywood. Like you hear a lot of stuff every day. I mean, Julia Roberts has said worse to me.

I mean, not really, but like, I mean. Right, I mean, I know the world and you were at the center of the world. So like everyday people are saying things they wouldn't want to be on camera. Right, but you also have this, we worked in this incredibly weird world where you have like 10, 15 minutes, in my case forever,

because it was a drive across town to really talk to someone before you talk to someone. Yes, of course. You and I chit-chatted for 15 minutes before we turned these microphones on. Just like, hey, you know what's going on? We've been chit-chatting for 40 years.

Yeah, but I've known you for a long time. But if you didn't know me, you would have that time. Always, always. To establish a little rapport. Always. And you meet them where they are. Yeah.

So, and with him, you don't have a choice. You know, it's never, how's the wife and kids? There's never that. There's, you know what I did the other day? Great shot over the bunker. You can only hope it's a golf day. But then, listen, here's the amazing thing is, after that, like if you want to look at like, I reported it. I didn't report it like he said terrible things on the bus.

This is awful. I reported it to my ran upstairs to my boss and I go, oh, my God. Every time with Trump, it's something else. The animal. You wouldn't believe what he did. He tried to take Nancy O'Dell furniture shopping and so he could get laid. I was like, this is crazy. And I'm telling you, you're not going to believe this.

The next day, that boss says, oh, no, I heard the whole thing, what you told me yesterday. The guy was rolling. I said, he rolled on the tape? I said, well, you better do something with that tape. And the reason I said that was for nothing that I did, nothing that I was ashamed of. I don't care. The reason was in 2005, Donald Trump was the biggest star on NBC, not news, on NBC, making $100 million in profit a year for the network. Had that tape leaked out in 2005 when it happened, heads would have rolled, including mine, because you just completely tarnished our major cash cow.

But can I just ask, I mean, I've been around, you know, microphones and cameras my whole life. And my understanding to this day is you don't tape people without their knowledge. In the state of California, it's it's well this is what's amazing so in 11 years later nbc news themselves leaks that tape to the washington post of that there is no doubt they never launched an internal invest you have a proprietary piece of property that could affect a presidential election and it gets out of your building to someone else you don't launch an investigation as to how that got out like you've got to you've got to find out how that got out well it would have ended in five

seconds uh and it got shoved off to the washington post i guess what i'm saying is it's unfair to tape people when they don't know they're being taped it's also illegal in the state of california if both people don't know it's litigious that's why they gave it to the Washington Post you got the biggest story of the entire the October surprise of all surprises you've got it in your hands and you leak it to someone else you're a giant news division

this is so many clicks for you this is so much traffic why wouldn't you own that well you can't because Donald is litigious, first of all. And second of all, there's enough reason to believe there's no camera on the bus that he didn't know he was being recorded. But it's also wrong. You shouldn't do that.

I mean, why is it different putting a camera in somebody's bedroom or bathroom? It's wrong. It is wrong. So that's what I fought all week long before I got fired. Okay, so, but let's get to it's actually a more interesting story than I realized. So this happens 2005 now, almost 20 years ago. You tell your boss, he's seen the tape. He has seen the off, the bus portion of the tape when you talked to him?

He heard it that one day and told me, I never heard it. He just said, oh yeah, the audio was on he told me i heard the nancy stuff he never mentioned anything about the word grab never came up who's your boss rob silverstein oh yes oh yes um but here's the crazy thing executive producer of the show executive producer of access hollywood but we'll get to how he's become the executive producer of my new show once again, how that's come full circle. What? Forgiveness, Tucker. It's an amazingly powerful thing. You ought to try it. You ought to try it. He's working for me. Don't think I didn't kick his teeth in. Don't think we didn't fall out for two years. Don't think I didn't take back the Rolex I gave him as a gift when I moved from the peewees to the big leagues.

When I got my big job at the Today Show, I had a party and I said, here you go, baby, I'm giving you a Rolex. Thanks for helping me get there. Two months later, I said, you son of a bitch. If I ever see you, I'm going to kill you and I'm going to, give me that fucking Rolex back. And now he's your producer again. Now he's my producer again because you know what?

We had so many, just sometimes you have, he's your producer again. Now he's my producer again. Cause you know what? We had so many, just sometimes you have, he's, I don't blame him because he was looking to, he asked for permission when he sent the tape to NBC news, he was asking for permission to use it. Wait, so, okay, let's just back up here because I know the story, but others don't.

So you, and Rob Silverstein was your friend too. Not just your EP. Oh yeah. So you, and Rob Silverstein was your friend too. Not just 3P. Oh. Yeah. So. Spent the night together sharing a bed during the blackout in New York in like 2012 or whatever it was. Wow. Because we had nowhere to go. Yeah. Sweating next to this guy. So that's the last you hear of this tape for 11 years until you get off the air, if I'm following this correctly. And Matt Lauer comes up to you and you're not thinking about the tape. No one ever mentioned the tape again.

The tape is just like faded into the past. Before that Monday, Rob Silverstein called me in New York and he just said, hey, just, you know, NBC's asking. I'm going to have a tape with Trump and the whole thing. They like, they may want to like look at the... They're asking for a transcript. I may send it to him because Trump said some crazy things. You, don't worry about you. You don't do anything on it.

You don't even say a thing. I say, okay, whatever. It doesn't mean anything. Then the next day, he says, I'll call you if anything happens. Well, I never got a call from him. The next thing I hear about it is it's in Lack's hands. Andy Lack him the next thing i hear about it is it's in lack's hands

andy lack the chairman of nbc news has it and kim whatever her name is the the legal counsel the lawyer she's on it and laura says you you should probably go see andy lack you know before this thing they have it and i was like oh oh my, okay. So I left the studio, went across up to Andy Lack's office and Noah was there. And I said, hey, Noah, what's going on? And he said, yes, we got this tape. I said, listen, I've never, I don't know what tape. Like I know about the tape.

I just, but I've never heard it. Like I've, so he played it for me. And I will never forget sitting in noah oppenheim's office the president the general manager of the today show as he played the part and when it got to the grab line noah laughed i met who's in the room he laughed oh and i guess i got fired for laughing but there he is laughing because when you hear something that absurd what do you do you laugh mostly laugh it's like a nervous laugh it's a yeah you know i've never heard anyone say what he said i was like this can't be real obviously

so i'm going to laugh uh but i don't recall it so it's just the first time i ever heard it was was that day and i went oh dear and then i watched the tape and I saw the arrival and the greeting. And I said, oh my God, the optics of this are just horrible. I'm the first to admit this looks terrible. And what happened in the ensuing days was, hey, what do you want to do about this, Billy? And I said, what do you want to do? I said, what do I?

And it's crazy. This is from Andy Lack, the chairman of NBC News, who was the only person in the world I'd hit with a tire iron if he was sitting right here. Yeah. And Noah, I wouldn't. I've forgiven Noah. Andy, tire iron. Truth. But in the ensuing days, it was all, what do you want to do? We could do something with this. You know, these things, I remember this quote, these things have a way of getting out. That's what Noah said to me. And I'm like, no, they don't. You can't.

Listen, what if I become the guy whose preamble before interviews gets used, whoever that public figure is, is never going to talk to me. I'm going to be the guy that no one wants to talk to because don't talk to Billy Bush before the interview. The cameras are rolling because he's probably secretly rolling. It's journalism 101 and no one came to my defense on it,

of course, because it was such a hot time. Everybody was just, you know, their heads were in the sand. But that whole week was what do you want to do? And I said, you know, their heads were in the sand. But that whole week was, what do you want to do? And I said, you can't use this. It's illegal to do that to him, to anyone.

I wasn't defending Trump. I'm defending my reputation as a journalist and someone who wants to interview other people in the future. And just basic fairness. Yeah. And also, by the way, you were paid to interview Trump and to do this set piece within the scene with him that was your job like you didn't it's not like you and trump were like

in a bar or something it was like this you were you were working for the same company it was a primary job for me then remember this the apprentice was the biggest thing on tv and trump every other celebrity had a publicist that followed them around and said, you can't say this, you can't do that, you can't use this. They'd try to shape your message. Trump's publicist literally just carried like a bag for him because Trump is going to do what Trump's going to want to do. He doesn't care. So he was a soundbite machine. I was with him three days a week. And when I wasn't with him, my boss would say, how do you get the next thing with Trump? We got to, Trump's, we need him for, we need him every day if we can have him. Because he's saying things like, remember the horrible stuff he said about Rosie.

But every entertainment show couldn't wait to run that as a headline. Of course. Right? No one does this. Except Trump. He's gold for ratings. He's unbelievable. In fact, he's helped. So I was constantly tasked with get on his plane, get into his apartment, go on a house tour with him. One of the great things I did with Donald Trump, still available online. Check it out. We went voting together in 2004, Bush-Carrie. And we went voting together and we went to four different polling places and he wasn't registered at any of them. It was hysterical and he kept getting furious. So I just did all these things. Did you have fun? It was part of

my job. I got promoted. I ultimately became the host of the show because of the amazing things I did with Donald Trump. I dressed up in disguise and snuck into the season two auditions of The Apprentice. And I auditioned as a mustache and I had a cowboy hat on. I called myself Richard Broom. And I made my way over to a table and Donald was sitting at the table and I sat down with eight other strangers. as he asked questions of everybody see if they'd be a part of the cast no way and he looks at me and he goes you're a weird looking fellow he's take off your hat and took it off he goes if I don't know that's Billy Bush I don't know we had a huge laugh I mean let me tell you something Donald Trump was the greatest reality television host ever ever

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Sarah, you look like a nice person. Why would you do that to Brandy? And he would just pit these fights, right? And people loved it. Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. It was five years ago this month that people started to drop dead in the central Chinese city of Wuhan.

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You will too. How was he regarded at NBC? Oh, he was, this is a story that'll blow your mind. My brother is a great healthcare executive. Yes. Built a company called Athena Health. The chairman of his board at one point became Jeff Immelt, who became the chairman of my brother's board. My brother reported to him. From GE.

As the CEO, yeah. And from GE, and GE owned NBC long before when The Apprentice was just coming on. And Donald wanted his contract renegotiated and he demand, forget Jeff Zucker and the NBC people. I want Immelt to do this with me. I want the CEO of GE to do my second year deal. And Immelt told my brother, he's like, if there were cameras at that lunch

or a little hidden microphone at that lunch i guess i would have been fired because you just go with what trump wants to go with yeah and they were similar uh yeah i mean you know what i mean because here's one thing about trump he is his loyalty isn't long if you like if i were to say to him hey how dare you talk like that like i'm not gonna be on this bus you shouldn't say such terrible things i will i'm leaving and i took a moral stand and walked out or whatever i did get rid of billy bush we don't like him we're doing entertainment tonight only now that's it and then you're done so literally my job hired to was to make sure we

had him as often as possible and get great soundbites and kick ass. Did you ever hear any NBC executives complain about him? Or his politics? No, but I do know that, look, he was placated as every big star of every big show in the business is all the way up to the, you know, ivory tower. 100% from Jeff Zucker to Jeff Immelt here's a beautiful irony Jeff Zucker, who I like was running the show at NBC Entertainment he's the one who put, he built if Trump is Frankenstein, he built him in the laboratory

and they built this apprentice and they made him the wheeling and dealing machine on his helicopter this incredible image. Can you imagine a better image on network television crafted for you than that one? And Zucker then became, years later, the head of the resistance. The guy that built him then became the head of the resistance in CNN. It's amazing. It's amazing in a matter of 10 years.

Like this recording of this bus tape that was a, I would have been fired if it had leaked out then for hurting the star. 11 years later and a lawsuit over Miss Universe and whatever else, NBC feels completely differently

about Donald Trump and now it's get him at all costs. Get him out of this presidential race at all costs. I don't care who we have to kill or shoot in the head on the way including billy bush no problem get rid of him so that's it's an incredible um it's an there was so much going on during that period that it it you know of course the the tape and that one phrase still kind of hangs in the air, but the actual story never really got told. There was too much chaos.

No, it's never been told. It was like the opening salvos of a war and like an atrocity was left unexamined. No, and look, I was a sitting duck, right? It was a hot time. People were feeling really strongly, you know, as they still are. Trump is, it's like country music, love him or hate him, right? I mean.

So what was that? Did you, okay, so you move over, and just to be, I just want to say this for the third time, that tape after you spoke to Rob about it, to your EP about it, the next day, was never mentioned again for 11 years. No, never mentioned again. It was, no, intermittently over the years,

you'd be like, God, that reminds me of the time that Trump told me about that, but it was always about Nancy O'Dell, maybe every three years or something. Right, right. Maybe five times total between 2005 and 2016. The Nancy O'Dell part has been lost in history. But always as a reference,

because Trump said something that reminded me of the whole thing. Was Trump political, by the way? Was he regarded as political when he was the host of The Apprentice? No. God no. No. The idea that this, if you want to talk about just bad luck in general, the idea

that Donald Trump in 2005 would one day run for president, and he's talked about it forever, but he would do it to just mix things up. He called me right before he announced and said, I'm going to announce. And I laughed. Yeah. Because I'd known him all these years.

And I thought of Trump as a person who was not serious about politics, who was going to use it to sell a book or promote a show or whatever. Or reboot the image after The Apprentice had run its course. That its course. It was very successful. So I literally laughed at him when he called me. I was in the car. I'll never forget it. Yeah. And he was totally calm. And he said, yep, I see what you're saying, but I think this time I'm going to surprise you. And he sounded totally different. But I agree with you. You knew him much better than I did.

When he came down the escalator, I said, oh this is gonna be unbelievable this is gonna he's gonna he's having so much fun exactly this is a joke he's having fun and all of a sudden everything he said that people didn't like he got more popular and he's like what i don't think he he he was surprised more than anyone like wait a minute they like me more okay and he just steamrolled everybody so do wow it's also it's also amazing in retrospect but did he and all the time you spent spent with him did he ever say anything you thought was political at all no yeah interesting never no he was it was not a chance. We went voting in 2004, the beginning of The Apprentice. And I remember him laughing. I said, have you endorsed one of the,

have you given money to one of the candidates? Are you behind one of them? He goes, I am. I said, which one? He goes, I can't tell you. I said, is there a chance that it's both of them he goes i am i said to which one he goes i can't do that i said is there a chance that it's both of them and he said there is like he had given money to both guys you're my guy here's a check you're my guy here's a check remember trump was open about that back in the day he was like look i needed to build i wanted my businesses to thrive so i played

nice with everybody on both sides. Remember his wedding in 2005 with Melania, there's Bill and Hillary Clinton and you know, everyone's there kissing the ring. Amazing. Yeah. Okay. So you go up to Indy Lack's office, Noah Oppenheim is sitting there, you screen the tape and they say to you, Billy, what do you want to do about this? Yeah. What do you want to do about this? Like, do you want to get out? It's your problem. I mean, I could have done what the little minion who wants to save his butt. And I might have if I had been, if I wasn't so stupid or I didn't get what they were saying.

In other words, they're saying, do you want to get out in front of it? What if I had taken that tape? And the most disingenuous little save my own ass move, I get on the air and I say, OK, look. Yeah, I know this was recorded before the interview and it was off camera. It's an off mic thing and the whole thing. And, you know, don't read into how bad that is as a journalist to be doing this, but because this is such a serious election and in the interest of all information and candor, I want to present this. And I want you, the American people to hear this because you're about to vote on the president of the United States. You should know this.

And so it's just, these are extenuating circumstances. And here I go. And I don't look good on this tape because I have to greet this greeting at the end. And it looks bad. And, you know, but I really, it's important to me to do this. And then I put it out there for people. I might have been the, wow, Billy Bush is courageous by the media establishment. What a courageous guy. He had to do that. That will give him a pass because, look, he brought forward this beautiful thing that will take out the enemy.

Because he's screwing Trump. Because he's screwing Trump. Because he's screwing Trump. And in the end, this is the very beginning of Trump derangement syndrome. No matter what, screwing Trump is paramount above everything else. Yes. So I would have gotten the pass from the media

and maybe still take a little vacation, but be back still at the Today Show making lots and lots of money for, you know. said no no it's wrong i can't have people look at me that i've got to be i'm not the guy that's doing that to anyone yeah i know the stakes and i know what you how you want this election to turn out i know how you want it to turn out but i can't do that i wouldn't do it to anyone and they said okay we understand and then they tried to get access hollywood okay why don't you guys do a little version of this and put it on and then i made a huge mistake and i said to my executive producer i said trump didn't know that this was on any other guest would know I have no protectionism of Trump I don't, you know, whatever

it's just wrong and they're setting you up you're going to become the fall guy Trump's going to sue NBC for putting this thing out there because he didn't know he was being recorded and you're the fall guy, you dummy and they're going to fire you and he went, oh my god, you're right

so he called back Andy Lack and he said, no I'm not putting it on access hollywood tonight that was a friday night no thursday night remember that sunday the ninth was the second presidential debate with hillary hillary clinton they needed this out there before the debate so anderson cooper's first question could be about sexual assault and Donald Trump perpetrating it. This is insane. So wait, hold on.

A little background context. You said this was the beginning of Trump derangement syndrome. Did you sense that at NBC? Oh God, absolutely. I mean, anything. Remember this over at ABC News, they did at the same time

when Trump became president, they launched a 70. They built a 75 person investigative unit. I know the guy who was head of it dedicated to anything negative on Trump. Find stuff on him and get him out. This is not journalism. This is not news it is activism when you're when you're when you're calling journalism it's total activism so that's what do you think that all the major networks that's why by the way when when nbc does the shitty thing that they did abc and cbs don't call it out they don't say of course you know hey what you're competing with each other i would want

to pound my competitor yeah like look Like, look what you did. That was dirty because all of them would have done it too, probably. You know what I mean? What do you think? They all shared that mission. I mean, you know, even at the, you know, channel I worked at, which was the one conservative channel, a lot of people hated Trump, really, really hated Trump. But you were in such an interesting spot because you knew him so well

for so many years yeah totally different met like hosted eight pageants for him all over the world I went with the Donald to Ecuador to Bangkok to Panama as we try to take back the canal I was with him all the time I flew on his plane and hosted the Paley Center panel on this incredible phenomenon, The Apprentice. And I, you know, Donald said, you can fly with me. And if we flew on the plane, I'd never seen Donald without a tie on. It was this night, rolled up sleeves, button, you know, the white shirt unbuttoned, no tie. It was incredible. Never have I seen that uh i didn't know what to make of it i was like he's so relaxed this is weird uh but he hung out and we told stories but i had spent more time with him i still think i've spent more time with him on camera than anyone i bet that's right oh for sure and i i've spent a lot of time with trump and i i'll just i'll just say i've enjoyed pretty much all of it fun guy to be wildly entertaining wildly wildly entertaining and i have to tell you one of the funniest people that I've enjoyed pretty much all of it. Fun guy to be. Wildly entertaining. Wildly. Wildly entertaining. And I have to tell you,

one of the funniest people I have ever... Yes. The laughter that I... I'm splitting my sides laughing at the things he would say. And some of it's because he's almost like a caricature. You know, the third person speak and all that.

It's just... It's wildly funny. So you don't really take much of it seriously. You know, when he said what he said at the end of the tape there that i i never for one second thought that that was a serious thing i mean who would say that and i just but you just laugh yeah the funniest i agree the funniest the funniest. I once took someone, I went to dinner with him and I brought someone who was, you know, politically on his side, I think, but was like, really, Donald Trump? And at the end of the meal, this is where I got in the car with the person who goes, that's the greatest dinner I've ever had.

Yeah. I've never had a dinner like that in my life. Anyway. But so given the fact, I think you actually have spent way more time on camera than anyone in the world with donald trump so it just puts you but again as you've said not in any kind of political context so now you're working on the today show biggest biggest news show in the country and they put out an apb to all properties. Find us something that shows, because a woman who was a Miss Universe contestant, this is early end of September, had come forward and said he was disparaging towards me. And Trump said, I've never been disparaging towards a woman in my life.

I've never done anything like that. So then NBC said, okay, find something of, look at all your tapes, everybody, every division of anything he might have said disparaging about a woman so we can prove him wrong. Ha, we gotcha. And then Rob Silverstein, my executive producer at Act, was like, oh, wait a minute. That tape that's collecting dust in my thing. He said something about Nancy O'Dell that was disparaging. Remember, this has always been about nancy odell and so he takes the tape out and he's like then he calls nbc to say hey i may have something i could use it i'm not sure i need your legal approval because although a very small division it's a division of nbc news access hollywood so i need legal

permission here. I don't want to go out there because I don't think he knows he's being recorded. I need a blessing. And then they sent it. And from there, they said, OK, we'll take it from here. What do you think that was? Why? I mean, it's just so especially strange for NBC, which, as you've said a couple of times,

was the recipient of like all this profit, $100 million a year from this show. So like they love Trump, but they pivot so fast to hating Trump obsessively. Why? Well, 11 years, a lot can happen. Like the bitter negotiations over the Miss Universe pageant and the fallout and lawsuits and countersuits.

And, you know, after he left The Apprentice, they replaced him at one point with, you know, they tried to replace him with Arnold Schwarzenegger. And he denigrated them. Schwarzenegger's terrible. Those two hated each other. They fought. You know, Trump's a street fighter. He's the king of the concrete jungle.

Yeah. You know? And so he's like, once The Apprentice had died, he blamed them for it. And, you know and so he's like uh once the apprentice had died he blamed them for it and you know he fights he fights dirty and they yeah you know and i think they had you know that big lawsuit over over miss universe kind of bummed them out and they they ended up hating each other it happens oh yes in some of you know uh and so a falling out. And then when he decides to run later, now it's like, get him at all costs. And they want Hillary.

They just... Yeah, they want Hillary, but you didn't see that. But with such vitriol for Trump. Yeah, it was great. And it wasn't just NBC, it was everybody. But it was everybody. But looking back eight years later, any idea why? It's not like Trump is super right wing or anything. Well, back in the day, look, I'm going to confess myself. I said, listen, I spent a lot of time with Trump. He'd be a terrible president. This is a crazy idea.

And I said that on the air in 2015 on my live daytime show. I said, as a man who has spent probably the most amount of time, this is a terrible idea. Now, to be clear, you know, I'm the nephew of George H.W. Bush. You know, this is he was a real. Steward and by the book sort of guy and felt, you know, he was a character first, all these things. Trump was something we'd never seen. Well Well, and also he was, since you brought it up, he was running against your cousin. And he's running against Jeb, low energy Jeb. Yeah. Is what he called him. So this puts you in like the weirdest position of anybody in the media.

Yeah. Yeah. When he started saying the low energy thing, I was like, oh man, really? Donald, Jesus. You're so brutal. But God, that works, doesn't it? What people misjudged was they were sick of everything, the way things had been done, and that he knew that.

And that's why Trump is smart, just because he knows where people are. And he met them there. So, you know uh genius in that regard amazing amazing story and you're i hadn't really this whole time we're having a conversation and i sort of forgot that it's so much there's so many crazy unbelievable details right but at the end of the day i think it been handled. I think it's like they have had a moment with their conscience and realized you can't do this. This is a part of the recording nobody knew was being recorded.

You can't do that to someone. You can't do it to me as a journalist to, you know, out somebody like that. And you can't do it to someone like Donald who's going to sue you. So it's dead. Okay. And as soon as Access Hollywood said, they're not doing it either. We're not touching this.

NBC didn't want to touch it. They knew that Trump would sue them. They slid it to the Washington Post. How'd they do that? I'm on a plane. I'm on a plane that Friday, two days before the debate. I'm going home to Los Angeles to see my family.

And right before the wheels go up, I look at my phone one last time, and bang, there's the story in the Washington Post. And I go, oh, my God. And the next week is the most chaotic week of my entire life. Did you have cell service on the plane? I got Wi-Fi 15 minutes later, and I had a million messages from Noah Noah you're going to be fine, you're okay, don't worry we'll take care of you, head of communications at NBC, don't worry, you didn't do anything you did nothing, we've got you

don't worry, we've got you security will be waiting for you at LAX we have a car, security guy will take you to the car, car will take you home don't worry, we've got you, we've got you next day, we've got you, we've got you got me to the point did your wife text you on the plane uh my wife texted me on and and we had a dinner at a friend's house that night and they're like hey are we still on and i'm like yeah of course what do you mean

are we on like this is sort of big i think i mean it's kind of huge it's kind of everywhere and i'm like no no they got me we're good they got me because i didn't do anything they got me. We're good. They got me. Because I didn't do anything. They got me. We land. TMZ, paparazzi. I get home. Wait, they're waiting. The next day, I buy $5,000 worth of new suits because as much as they give you,

pay you on the Today Show, they don't buy you clothing. And I'm like, I got to get some new suits. I mean, I got a fancy new job. I'm an important little guy. This is great. I buy a bunch of suits.

I have someone tailoring them in my living room. I'm doing all this. The next day, Sunday, I go out and there's a car and driver in the driveway. And as I'm about to open the door with my bags, the driver says, hey, they just canceled the car. I said, what? It's got to be a mistake. What are you talking about?

No, they canceled the car. And oh, God. I called my lawyer. I said, what's going on? He said, yeah, they canceled the car. And I'm like, oh God. I called my lawyer. I said, what's going on? And he said, yeah, they want to suspend you tomorrow. I said, I need to be able to talk tomorrow. I need to be able to say something. They can't suspend me.

He's like, they're suspending you tomorrow. And then from there, just this shit unfolded. I think I did call you on Saturday and said they're going to try and screw you. I think you did. As a man who knows what it looks like when it's coming. I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. I said, Hey buddy, you're fucked.

Yeah, I did say. I said, they're going to try and fuck you. And you're like, no, no, no, I've been here a while. I've worked for this company. No, no, they love me. This is the network that raised me. No, no, no. They couldn't do that to me. I didn't do anything. So my advice, I'll never forget it was, because I still think it's good advice, march into any lax office and say, listen, bitch, can I call you a bitch?

You may have some thought about destroying me. And I'm a father of children, so you can't do that. I just didn't see it. But if you do that, I will go on Good Morning America on Monday, and we're going to talk about your marital infidelity. Just so you know. No, no, no, because you're not allowed to destroy me. So how about don't do that?

All your sexual harassment claims from everywhere you've ever been. Right. You who would later go on to fire Matt Lauer and claim you knew nothing. Exactly. Please. And by the way, Andy's landed at PBS, apparently. He's producing a new series at PBS.

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Oh, excuse me. Why are you walking so close behind me? Well, you're a tall guy. You throw a decent shadow and I'm walking in it to keep out of this bright sun. It hurts my eyes. Okay, well, you know what? Spec Savers, you can get two pairs of glasses from $149. And, oh, you'll like this.

One can be a pair of prescription sunglasses. Sounds great! Where's the nearest store? Mmm, not far. Come on. Let's hurry, then. To my count. One, two, one, two, one, two... Visit specsavers.ca for details. We were talking about this off-air, just having spent both of us a lot of time in this business. The television executives are that rare group, and you don't run into them very often,

who don't respond to anything but threats. Whereas like, you know, normal person, your wife, your children, your friends, anybody off the street, the lady at Dunkin' Donuts, like they can all be reasoned with and they're moved by love and, you know, a cogent argument. TV executives, it's like, if you don't have a gun in your hand, well, you just said you got the job

because GMA was thinking of hiring you. Yeah, that's leverage. That's that's the only thing that moves right you know the right thing will never be done exactly wait someone else wants him all right now we want him move it over to here that but that's that's life that you know the leverage i get it um god it's not my life that's not the world that i live in outside it's not the not the world. I'm leaving, you know, I wish I had the wherewithal then to know what was happening. It was so hot and so crazy. And I had to hire a litigator and all these things. And we ended up doing a deal with them to let me go.

And it was not my full contract. And it was. And then the next day there's reports that billy bush got all this money it's not even half of what they reported it's like it's it was a it was a shit i had bought a place in new york that i remember i took a bath i took a bath on that i mean you want a 360 shit show and it happened like that in an instant you're at the highest you've ever been in your career you can't believe it you got drivers wherever you're going you're like dude i'm maybe drinking a little bit of that kool-aid thinking i'm pretty cool and maybe i and here's

the positive part maybe god said you're not ready for life yet amazingly you're 44 years old and you don't know what a struggle looks like you have had a pretty sheltered life i'm looking trying to think of on a bigger picture and i you need everyone in this life no one goes unscathed everyone has to get their doors blown off in some way hopefully it's not cancer with a child or something terrible, but it's going to be something horrible that's going to shake you to the core and you got to figure it out. This was mine.

I'm not extraordinary that I've had to deal with getting my doors blown off. I'm only extraordinary in the details of it that the reality guy from 2005 is now destroying 16 other people to become the Republican candidate for president. That's all very extraordinary.

But I think what happened then was three years of disaster and then getting back to work and slowly putting one foot after the other and leading to, you know, this moment now where I'm... The whole thing is just absolutely incredible um i watched with amazement and real sadness and by the way you you were the one of the very very very few people that you know just didn't give a shit and called it for what it was you were you well i was totally outraged by it and the lying behind it and we talked about this off air but if they were like you know, what you said about Megyn Kelly, if they're like, okay, you know, it's not, the returns aren't what we thought they were going to be. We're going to have to let you go. That's a totally reasonable thing to do.

If they had said, Billy, we're just too embarrassed and like, let's work out some way or whatever. I don't, but they were like morally high handed with you. Like you committed some kind of crime and I was outraged by that. What did you do wrong? I never understood it. And then the small, you know, then I was unhirable. I was just unhirable.

I didn't work for three years. I know, I know. Three years is a long time. I didn't work, couldn't get hired. And to my fault, what I should have done is launched the Tucker Carlson Network right then and there. The technology wasn't ready for it. It wasn't. I wasn't ready. I was like, no, damn it. To my fault, what I should have done is launch the Tucker Carlson Network right then and there.

The technology wasn't ready for it. It wasn't. I wasn't ready. I was like, no, damn it. This big family that had me in it is going to have me back because it isn't right. And I'm going to stick around until they do. And finally, I made it back. You know, an extra at Warner Brothers hired me. I've done it for five years. And I'll forever be grateful to the woman who lives very close to you down here since she's retired. And an extra at Warner Brothers hired me. I've done it for five years.

And I'll forever be grateful to the woman who lives very close to you down here since she's retired, Lisa G., who hired me. And I got, you know, going again. Sue, can you, without, you know, getting too painful, but just sort of linger on what those days. You walk outside and the driver tells you that the car has been canceled. So you call your lawyer. Did you call Noah Oppenheim, Andy Lack? Yeah, I called Noah. And I mean, at that point,

everything goes to the lawyers. Their phones no longer answer. So they're told by legal, you cannot talk to him at all. And so- Because you never had another time? Six months later, I talked to Noah Oppenheim. But you never talked to him there in the middle of it. And he said, here's the beautiful thing.

Noah said to me, if you never speak to me again, if you hate my guts for the rest of your life, I understand. I'm so sorry. It wasn't supposed to happen like this. I'm so sorry. Well, I called Noah because I know Noah and I was, I probably shouldn't say this, but I did.

And I called him. He called me back. Um, I was in the car with one of my children coming back from a college tour. I'll never forget it. And she was driving. She was just wanting to drive cause she'd gone to boarding school. She didn't know how to drive. Anyway, we're in the car.

He calls me back on speaker. And I, she reminded me of this. Actually, last night, we were saying you were coming. And I lost, completely lost control on him. Like, completely lost control. Scared my daughter. Because I was just so, I mean, I've got nothing to do with it. But I just, I was just so mad.

Yeah. That someone could do. Well, I felt it. Like, it's just so unfair. And then you don't call the man directly. And it's, oh, through the lawyers, legal won't let me. It's like, what? Yeah.

You just suspend all humanity and decency because you work for some stupid company it's going to be gone in 10 years there won't be an nbc like all this is passing away all this is fake and what matters is treating other people with decency and they just forget that there's a history of that at the today show if i were still the host of access hollywood and all of that had happened and i never spent two months at the today show i hadn't made that very recent move. I don't think they would have fired me at Access. I think I kind of, I was the

Matt Lauer of the place. It's a smaller place, but I'd been there so long. People looked up to me. I kind of had influence. I could, they wouldn't have done it. They needed me. But remember, I'd gotten to the Today Show where half the place didn't want me there in the first place. So it was definitely inside politics. Mean was mean girls high school shit and now i mean

things it's so long ago and things have changed so much oh that i kind of feel sorry for matt lauer who at the time i was outraged and i laid into him by the way i got to speak to matt lauer nine months afterwards and he and i said you know he fallen yet he had not fallen yet he but he called me with some bullshit about, I can't believe that Trump is president and you lost your job, which is the number one thing I hear from everyone. But I was like, not from you, asshole. And I laid into it.

Please don't try that on me. I'm not dumb. I mean, you're the leader. I said, you're the leader of that place. You could have fought for me and you didn't. And I know why you didn't. Because you didn't want me in my full head of hair in that building. And I get it. I laid,

he's like, no, no, no. I fought for you privately. I'm like, no, you didn't dude.

I know you didn't. And your minions didn't and shut up and save it. And then when he got fired, I was like, Hey, are you okay? I, here's some books.

Try these three books. I did the same. I also texted somebody I never liked him but I always I always text people when they get fired

just because I feel like we should do that we should you don't want to I texted Jeff Zucker when he got fired you did? yes

and you know the funny thing is um yeah I really disliked Jeff Zucker intensely I worked for him and I intensely disliked him

I like the way you say intensely I did and he got fired and I intensely disliked him. I like the way you say intensely. I did. And he got fired and I was in bed. I was in the morning and someone said, Zucker just got fired. And I texted him immediately. Two-liner, you know, because I've been there. And never heard back from him.

This was four years ago, probably three or four years ago. And I was at a lunch in Abu Dhabi last week and guess who sat next to me? Jeff Zucker. Wait, he didn't choose to sit. No, he just wound up. Wait, his placard, his nameplate was next to you. Yes, I sit down at lunch

and... In an official capacity. This is some type of event. Yeah, I was just traveling and... He didn't know he was sitting next to you. No, I wind up sitting at lunch and I'm like, there's Jeff Zucker. And the first thing he says to me is, thanks for your text. Yes.

That's the first thing he said. People remember these things. They do remember them. Always reach out. Someone's down, always reach out. That is, can you say that again? Because that's the truest thing in life. Whether it, like someone gets diagnosed

with a disease or something, you're like, oh my God, I don't know what to do. Maybe I'll do nothing. Would they get fired or something like that? Always reach out. Always. That is. And I can tell you that from a guy.

I had, when I got canned, I had beautiful letters. Julie Bowen reached out. We also went to high school with her. We went to high school with her. You're like, God, did I have a crush on her? Yeah. Jeez. But Suzanne Somers and Cindy Crawford and crazy Dennis Quaid.

And it goes on. But there's many, many, lots and lots of letters. It's funny you remember it all, though. Oh, yeah. Kate Walsh, the actress. And, oh, we know who you are. You're the greatest guy. I'm so sorry.

It's like, oh. Always reach out. Always reach out. So out so you texted matt lauer when he boy talk about a fall too i mean that was matt lauer had one of the nicest most impressive wives ever yeah and that in an amazing person yeah very sweet um very smart but uh what did he respond when you texted him yeah yeah. Yeah. Have you seen him? And then afterwards, I chatted with him once and I haven't talked to him in years,

but... Yeah. You know, I think when they... There was this funny thing that happened in Rio. Like when we got back from Rio in the Olympics, all these people were writing these stories,

like In Touch Weekly, Gossip Magazines were writing, Billy Bush wants Matt Lauer's job and he's gone in for it. And this is just stuff that in no way is true because i'm trying to build a nine o'clock regis style show we were going to do it at the top of the rock the top of the building with like a jazz quartet like a morning live audience it was gonna we had all these wonderful plans it's gonna be the most

amazing show uh so we're i don't i don't want your job but he read all these wonderful plans. It was going to be the most amazing show. So we were like, I don't. I don't want your job. But he read all these things and he thought that I was planting them through my quote unquote team, whoever would be on my team. I'm just a kid that came from Access Hollywood. Oh, you didn't have a team? Oh, my team. So he called me to his office. This is while I was like, this is after my first month. I'm still there. And he's like, hey, I need to talk to you. These reports that have come out, like you want my job and all this stuff and all these things that started in Rio and all this. I need you to know that they have to stop and they got to stop now.

Whoa. And I went, oh, my God. Are you a crazy person? Have you been in this business and you're so psychotic and it's gotten you to the point where you think I'm planting stories to get rid of you so I can have the number one chair? Oh, my God. Like, do people do that? Like, I'm just I just want you to like me, dude. I just want you to take me out to lunch and say, welcome. Yeah. Like I have to every new person that arrives to a show that I'm the anchor of. Of course. Of course. Welcome.

Did Roker ever confront you directly? Confront me about anything? Oh, I mean, he's just like attacking me. Well, he attacked me on air about the Ryan Lochte thing. And after that, it kind it kind of brushed away. Rokers, it was very difficult to deal with in that you just have to kid gloves. You know what I mean? Yeah. Walk on eggshells.

Did you ever talk to him again? He left me several voicemails. I still have them, by the way. Really? An Al Roker voicemail. Hey, Bushman, I'm coming to town. Just, you know, feeling so good that you're fired.

I mean, not really, but like, I'm so glad you're not here so now I can like you again. I just can't like you here. It's too close to my stuff. I was looked at as a predator by the men. I will say this, the women on the show? Terrific. Delight say this, the women on the show,

terrific, delightful. Really? We had the best time. Hoda Kotb would put her arm around me and say, Bushman, you and I are the future. And it turns out, Bush and Kotb are the future, just not this Bush.

And so, yeah, I mean, the women were great. I totally forgot. Two separate worlds in the Today Show, seven to nine. Wait,, you know, I totally forgot. Two separate worlds in the Today Show. Seven to nine. Wait, they hired another... I totally forgot that. Yeah, that's them.

Denump them. But... Wow. I have trouble connecting dots sometimes. Yeah. But look, here's what happens. This all leads... This leads to...

Hilarious. Yeah, the irony's... I never thought of that till right now thank you neither have i what's it like uh in i mean so do you ever talk to her about it oh your cousin yeah jenna uh no uh not yes we talked once at my bar at barbara Bush's funeral in Houston about it. But I remember when I was coming in or making my moves and things were going really well for me and I was making that move to the Today Show. She was like, how do I, like, they just keep having me do the same things. How do I get out of this?

And I gave her some advice and, you know, I said, well, just stop interviewing your dad, like, every week. Don't do that. That's a start and then but she's um done incredibly well and and she you know i love her and she terrible situation for her to be in while they're you know totally defenestrating your cousin and you move up yeah that, that is- Poor thing. I mean, I felt as badly for her because it's just, you know, it's just awkward.

She didn't want it that way. Of course not. Of course not. Wow. And we have great fun today. I mean, I saw her recently and we always have laughs and everything's wonderful.

And recently ran into Phil Griffin. No way. From MSNBC. Buddy, as we ran into Phil Griffin. No way. From MSNBC. Buddy, as we called him. Who I thought, I thought he was behind all this and I was ready to lay into him. And I started to. And he was like, no, no.

The man that fired you, I hate him too. Lack. Yeah. Everybody hates Lack. The one thing everyone agrees on is that Andy Lack is a very bad guy. You know, it's's funny Phil Griffin fired me and

it's one of the very maybe the only firing I've had a lot of firings but it was the only one where I had no hard feelings whatsoever and he called me in at Thanksgiving I'll never forget it and I was about to take the train back to Washington he goes hey can I talk to you for a sec buddy called everyone buddy probably still does

and he goes um hey you know I talk to you for a sec, buddy? Called everyone buddy. Buddy. Probably still does. And he goes, hey, you know, we hired you here at MSNBC. We were hoping to move the channel right to compete with Fox. That didn't work. And then you brought in Rachel Maddow onto your show and it turns out she's way more popular with our audience than you. So we're going to let you go because it didn't work. But we'll pay out your contract and it's totally fine. And he was so direct with me

and honest with me those that's exactly what i mean first he started he was like attacking me in the new york post page six and i called him up and i yelled at him we have to do it this way like this way news people have to do it they have to because they have to use the gossip pages in new york exactly to crush you and whatever. But once I called him on that and he stopped, he was totally honorable about it. Good. And, you know, I obviously don't like or approve of MSNBC, but I've never attacked Phil Griffin because he paid me the honor of directness. I like that.

Me too. What he said to me in June was when I was coming after him or I wanted to corner him. He said, no, I asked Andy, hey, you know, you've helped, what's his name? Brian Williams before. You stand up for people that we like and Billy Bush is a good guy. What are you going to do about Billy? And Andy said to him, he told me, fuck Billy fuck billy bush who gives a shit who cares billy bush what doesn't matter he's nothing forget him and so literally just and i thought oh my god but it endorsed that everybody uh yeah there's reason andy lack is a terrible guy my dad

called two people on my behalf but my my father bless his heart you called noah oppenheim my dad called andy lack and he's like a really in high integrity clean fighting guy only tells clean jokes like you know calls up and says uh he says andy i don't know if you know this you no he wrote him a letter he says i've recently had a case he says, Andy, I don't know if you know this. No, he wrote him a letter. He says, I've recently had a case of the shingles. I don't know if you've had a case of the shingles before, but they're very, very painful. And I just hope that one befalls you soon. You're a horrible person.

Jonathan Bush. He's since died three years ago. But then he also called Steve Burke because back in the day dad knew his his father not well but his father was dan burke who ran cap city's abc so steve burke who was the ceo and chairman of nbc at the time dad called him and said there's no way this apple could have fallen far from the tree you're what you're doing to my son is unbelievable. It's a character. So you're killing this guy and he didn't do anything. And shame on you. There's no way the apple fell that far from the tree. Your dad was an honorable, honorable man. And he was like, I'm so

sorry. I don't know what to do. And I just had it in my hands. I'm sorry. So sorry. And I was like, that was it. But of the the people always reach out when someone's down and always call to tell someone an asshole that they're an asshole when they are exactly right be direct I think that's and that's why you'll never hear me attack Phil Griffin even though

and me neither because it like cleared so I wanted to like him so much and then I was like but he I remember his face like walking out of Andy Lack's office when the plan was in motion to fire me. MSNBC was never first on the air with a story. And they were first on the air with the bus story because they knew it was coming. It was a setup. They colluded. I lied it over, which is how it got from the vaults at NBC News to the Washington Post. Who did it go to? We don't know exactly, but if you want to begin the internal investigation, Noah Oppenheim is the president of NBC. He's the head of the, he's general manager of the Harvard Crimson newspaper, back when he was a Harvard man, was a writer named David Fahrenthold from the Washington Post. And Fahrenthold is the one.

They ran the Crimson together. They were both groomsmen in Chelsea Clinton's wedding. Actually? Co-groomsmen. Oh, yeah, because one of their other buddies was the guy that Chelsea married. married so they were groomsmen in the wedding together anyway that guy's the one who released it's like the paper trail is terrible i mean i could start there wait so the college buddy of the nbc press is now a writer at washington post and then two years later a year and a half later he gets his own nbc news contributing gig and he gets a sweet gig over at msnbc so they

they pay him back for the for the hustle is what that's where i would start the investigation i'm not saying that that happened but i would begin there and just see if it saves you some time i don't know now i can guarantee you that here's the good thing about no that noah didn't want to do this i'm his only hire he was new on the job and he made one move i'm gonna change that third hour i'm putting billy bush in there he's got personality that's the guy we want boom he makes his one hire then this thing blows up on him and lack no question turns to him and says get this tape to a hot out into the world. Find a way to do it.

He did not want to, but this was the obvious way. So, you know, his only choice was to say, no, Andy, I'm not going to do that. It's wrong. I hired the guy and we shouldn't do that to him. But he didn't. What happened to Andy Lack? Andy eventually got fired.

Oh, he did? To be fair, everyone who was involved in all of this has all since been fired. This is... Everyone's been fired. This is like the Soviet Union where, you know,

all the early Bolsheviks commit these mass murders. It's not worth it, folks. Then they're all killed. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Kamenev, Zinoviev, Trotsky,

all die. But Lack is now, I've been told, at PBS somewhere producing some series. Why was he fired from NBC? Just one bungle after the next. The Me Too movement came and the Harvey Weinstein thing he bungled. And then he bungled the Brian Williams, that disaster.

And then the Matt Lauer disaster. And I think at the end of the day, they're just like, this is not a good guy. Was Brian Williams on your side? He wasn't. He never reached out. I mean, I like Brian. I have no reason not to. I always had fun with Tom Brokaw,

was on the same floor as me where my office was. Craig Melvin was right next to me. Loved Craig. Craig came up to me at a country club. I was having lunch with an old agent of mine out in Rowatan. I went out there to have lunch with an old agent who was kind of in poor health. So I just went to see him. And I ran into Craig and his wife and their kids in the parking lot.

And he said, I'm so sorry. What happened to you? Like, you were such a good guy. And I just, it's terrible. Is he still there? He just got the big promotion. He's in the Lauer chair. Maybe he planned this whole day.

He took, that's a long plan, Greg. That's an eight year plan. Great guy, lovely, decent singing voice. And amazing. So the people you know, you still must know people in linear television Great guy, lovely, decent singing voice. Amazing. So the people you know, you still must know people in linear television at the Today Show or other places. How are they feeling about the prospects of their business?

There's a few big, there's like a few big contracts left, but they're all shrinking. Like Stephanopoulos just renegotiated to come down. Everyone's coming down. They're all coming down to earth. Hoda left, but there's still plenty of 20,

$25 million a year people like everyone on Good Morning America. But all their renegotiations come down. The whole thing is slowly. The low is for the next five, 10 years, I think there'll be a place for that morning TV, right? But not at these astronomical. It doesn't feel like it drives anything anymore.

Well, it's so scared. It doesn't take an opinion. It doesn't take a position. It doesn't... It's... The competition... They're not... Today's show and Good Morning America

are not competing to win or to grow. It's who can die the slowest. Yeah. That's the fight. But it doesn't, I mean, it used to be for decades, you know, if it appeared in the first hour of the Today Show, it kind of defined the news. 7.35 a.m. was known as the money slot.

Whatever airs, still to this day, whatever airs at 7.35, folks, that's the best thing they got. And after that, you can move on. But it doesn't seem like it determines what people are talking about at 8.35 anymore. No. No. No.

The internet is... Just ate it. Ate eating, destroying everyone. It's an insatiable belly. It can't get enough. So what'd you do after, so you get canned and then what happens? So I get canned and my life falls apart and I start drinking heavily. I, I, I pathetically cry and cry and cry and, and, and, and I can't get, I just have like anxiety and panic. And I

end up going to this place called the Hoffman process. The day that Donald Trump walked in for his first day of work as president of the United States was the day that I walked in, turned in my phone and checked in for nine days in a mental health retreat for, because I couldn't, I couldn't sleep. I couldn't, the panic and the anxiety was just cancellation like at that level is it's it's severe the mental toll you know we're fortified now nothing could happen like that again to me i had to learn the hard way and i was maybe especially weak at the time so far so so far from marcus aurelius that i couldn't handle that but i wanted to like suicidal ideation i had like i was on a balcony in this place i was renting and i was like and i had to lay down on the ground because i felt myself like wanting to

go to just get away from i had paparazzi everywhere outside following me, saying shit to me. And I just got so bad that I went to this place and that was my first, that was in January of 17. And that was my first step in putting myself together. I walked on the flames with Tony Robbins. I read every book you could read. I started, you you could read. I started yoga. I found this amazing pastor

who became my friend. I have this wonderful photo of me in church at this church, Zoe Church in Los Angeles, Pastor Chad Veach, a really great guy. And I didn't know he was doing it when he said everybody, he said a prayer for me out loud. Everyone in the congregation reached forward and put their hand on my shoulders. I like fell apart crying. And I was like, okay, I'm going to put myself back together. This is, we'll fortify here. And then you just one step after the next and step after the next. And then you get going and life gets better. I didn't think it would, but it's like now it's about to get much better

as I follow great pioneers like you and Megan and others and do things my way. People who have been fired. Yeah. So, you know, I mean, it's probably hard even to think of it, but I wonder if like when you're 70, you won't think, you know, it's probably that to work out in the end. It's all going to be a reason. It's all, believe me, once you get through it, life will never be. And I think there's truth to that. You just got to get to the other side. I wasn't ready for anything bad to happen to me.

And now I'm ready for whatever comes next. Yes. I really am. I'm very, I'm not, I can handle it. Whatever it is, I can handle it. Whatever it is, I can handle it. And also to go and do the show that I'm about to go do on my own, I think it's helpful to know what it feels like to be down. No matter who you're talking to, if you're a professional communicator, to know what it feels like to be down is a really important tool.

I strongly agree with that. I also think I've noticed, certainly noticed it in my own life, that success isn't necessarily great for men and especially men. And it does, you do get filled with hubris, actually. Yeah. Oh, I thought I was a cool guy. Yeah, I've been there. I've been there. I'm not mocking you cool guy. Yeah, I've been there. I've been there.

I'm not mocking you in any way because I've certainly been there. And in fact, I've been there so much that when I got fired the last time, Susie, my wife, she was like thrilled I got fired. Absolutely thrilled. She didn't like the employer anyway. She thought that they were.

That's interesting. No, no, she was thrilled. She was actually walking the dogs. And I called her. I was like, I just got fired. And she goes, why? I said, I don't know. They didn't tell me. She goes no, she was thrilled. She was actually walking the dogs, and I called her, and I was like, I just got fired. And she goes, why? I said, I don't know. They didn't tell me.

She goes, I'm so glad. Oh, my God. I love you so much, Susie. Oh, that's great. Well, you know what she's like. She's the best. Yeah, and she never said it or would say it, but I do think she, on a gut level, understood. It's like it's important for a man to have setbacks once in a while because it it reminds you what's

important these are all cliches for a reason but it reminds you that you're not god and you need to know that that's really important to know that if life was just one rosy contract after the next and look at me look at me what kind of textured life would that be you have you can't come back and triumph over something if you got nothing to triumph over. So that's just the way life is, right? Well, you look at Lauer and Roker and they're hardly alone in this, but they're like legitimately successful people in television. I mean, they're the most successful people in television.

Very, very rich and in the long run. And very long run. Lauer's run. Unbelievable. Roker's even longer. By the way, take me out, but not after two months. How about after 20 years when I'm sitting on a giant pile of money?

Right, when you pay off the mortgage. But why are they so unhappy? Like, I've wondered this. I got on a TV in 1995. It says 30 years. I've always noticed that,

that the most successful people are like miserable. Someone yesterday told me, knows Larry Fink, who's like one of the richest people in the world, runs BlackRock. He said, Larry Fink, really smart, complicated person, not all bad, but the marker, the distinguishing characteristic of Larry Fink is he's miserable. He's truly unhappy. What is that? Why are so many very successful people miserable? I don't know,

but I do know that i don't want to be a billionaire i'm not interested no no thanks amen i want to have enough to do the things you know that that that i want i want to be able to say that why do you why do you because there's i mean not to say more money more problems but i i it's it's a drug like anything else keep taking it keep taking me more give me more give me more it's never going to satisfy it's a drug like anything else. Keep taking it, keep taking me more, give me more, give me more. It's never going to satisfy. It's just never going to satisfy. And you've seen that.

I'm not doing what I'm doing. I'm not launching my new show to become rich on my own and make a lot of money. I want to be stimulated. I want to have conversations like this. I want to look at you and be honest with you and talk to every person I talk to

in a completely honest, authentic, funny way. And I don't, the truth isn't going to appeal to everyone, but the truth matters. Yes. I care more about that. I care about being stimulated every day. And if we do well, that's awesome. So it sounds like just in your telling, the three years of not working were, it's not good not to work. It's not good not to work. You got to get up and have some place to go. You need to have something you're doing. Yeah. And not, you know, I just kept thinking, how could they betray?

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. How could they betray me like this? Oh, I couldn't get out of my own way. I was like, just so mad. My brother said something beautiful. He said, when you get over all this, you're going to get over it. And when you do, you're going to get the opportunity to come back as yourself. Well, your brother, speaking of getting screwed, totally different line of work. He got screwed. He knows what it feels like to have an activist investor throw

you out of the company you built. And I talked to him the other day about something random and sounded totally happy in a piece. Totally. Now, he's overcome that, and you know what he did? He launched, he started another one. Amazing. Yeah, he's got a new healthcare company called Zeus Health. So he started Athena, and Zeus is the father of Athena.

So he's reminding everyone who built it. It's also A to Z. Yeah, A to Z. How did you get over that? How did you forgive? Because you actually, I think it's fair to say at this point, we're almost two hours in and anyone who's followed this, I think would agree you did get shafted. How did you forgive? Because, well, my executive producer who sent the tape, he was only looking to cover his ass in case he used it and they, and Trump sued. So I, when I really thought about it, I'm like, he wasn't, he was trying to cover himself. all over the world to Olympics and all these different things and covered so many things together and we really work well together. So we healed the friendship and now he's going to be the producer of my new show and we're back together again. That's amazing. Am I a big person or what? I mean, come on.

That little shit. But I love him and now he works me, and I don't work for him. But with Noah, I knew that Noah was just doing what they told him to do, and he just arrived to this giant machine, and he didn't have the guts to say no. Yeah. We're doing the right thing. I'm not doing that. Most people would have done what he did. Most.

Yes, that's right. It takes a really big person of character to not do that, so would have done what he did most yes takes a really big person a character to not do that so i forgave him uh and what's he doing now the only one i don't forgive is andy and i could if he came to me and asked for it but he doesn't return you know he's just a he's just a shit i tried calling him once and so i'm fine not forgiving him like i'm fine like i can like i'm like my soul won't rot if I can just live and hate one person right it's just one Tucker it's just one you may look I'm no theologian but I think you it's possible you get the anti-lack exemption I don't know I don't know I just I kind of like hating him anyway and what so what's Noah Oppenheim doing now I don't know

yeah I don't know I'm gonna rush to should we call him yeah let's call him Billy Bush that was thank you for doing this okay

now will you tell people to tune in to my new show 100% January 13th is Monday we begin and guess what the name

of the show is just to bring everything A to Z Hot Mics with Billy Bush the mics are still hot except for Just to bring everything A to Z. Hot mics with Billy Bush. The mics are still hot, except for we know they are. Where are you doing it from?

I got a great little studio over by that Howie Mandel, a little corner of Howie Mandel's operation that he set up for me. And then ultimately we'll build out. In Los Angeles. In Los Angeles. While we're doing then ultimately we'll build out our- In Los Angeles. In Los Angeles. While we're doing that, we'll build our own. So how long, so it's been your whole life you've worked for companies. Yeah, I work for myself now.

And the Hot Mics is like, it's the zeitgeist. Sports, politics, entertainment, pop culture. Are you excited? Everything that's happening in the, that's hot. Yeah, I'm really excited. Really got a great team of people. I'm learning this incredible world that you know so well. No makeup required.

Did you know that? I don't need any makeup. Right, but I'm saying you beautiful. You afford makeup. You look the same. You have no gray hair. What are you doing? Do you do rinse out?

Do you do a little rinse out? I actually, honestly, wash my hair with Dr. Bronner's bar soap. So, and I shave with it. And I use no products whatsoever. Yeah. And I am Scandinavian, which helps. Can I compliment you? As a man of good hair, your hair is fantastic.

And hair, to the Hair Hall of Fame, we have a shot. There you go. I have a picture of us in high school. Same hair. Big hair. Big hair. It was bigger than the 80s.

Yeah. Yeah. You were an animal, man. This guy, this is, you got yourself going on the right path. Yeah.

Well, that was wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to the Tucker Carlson Show. If you enjoyed it, you can go to TuckerCarlson.com to see everything that we have made. The complete library. TuckerCarlson.com.