The Tucker Carlson Show - Charlie Kirk: How Debt Has Radicalized Young America and Why Boomers Deserve the Blame

Episode Date: July 21, 2025

Charlie Kirk on how continuing to ignore the debt slavery of Gen Z will lead to revolution. (00:00) How the Russiagate Hoax Paved the Way for America’s War With Russia (11:42) Donald Trump’s Fight Against the Intel Agencies (17:11) What Really Is the Deep State? (28:51) The New Financial Scam Secretly Enslaving Gen Z (43:10) The Oncoming Radical Movement That Will Change the US Forever (49:39) The Immigration Emergency Charlie Kirk, host of the Charlie Kirk Show and the founder and CEO of Turning Point USA, the largest conservative youth movement in America. Paid partnerships with: Joi + Blokes: Go to https://joiandblokes.com/tucker to get 20% off all products and therapies with code TUCKER Dutch: Get $50 a year for vet care with Tucker50 at https://dutch.com/tucker Policygenius: Head to at https://Policygenius.com/Tucker to see how much you could save Preborn: To donate please dial #250 and say keyword "BABY" or visit https://preborn.com/TUCKER Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It seemed manufactured at the time. It seemed fake. It was confusing. Like, where did this come from? All of a sudden out of nowhere, we all hate Russia and Trump is a Russian agent, something that no one had ever said before. And then it just saturated the media and it was the only topic for a couple of years. And no one ever kind of went back to examine like how, how do you create a story out of nothing

and then convince Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, New York Times to write about it every day? And I think we're going to find out now. Do you think? Well, great to be here, Tucker. Yeah, I hope so. Sorry, Charlie. It's great to see you. You know, as I get older, my manners just evaporate.

This is like Frost Nixon. You know, it's like straight Nixon. It's like straight in. It's like the first question. So why'd you burn the tapes? Why didn't you burn the tapes? Great to be here, Tucker. Yes, I would go even a step further because the war right now happening between Russia, Ukraine, and the West's support of it actually was an extension of Russiagate.

Thank you for saying that. Because part of one of the unintended consequences of Russia gate, I think actually intended, but unintended from our perspective because we were so focused on the Trump component, was how it was desensitized at the Democrat party to hate Russia. If you think about it, Donald Trump was the worst villain ever in the history of the world according to the Democrat party. So they needed to have an explanation as to how this guy won. Because of course, it can't be the fact that they de-industrialized Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, flooded the country with a bunch of illegals and allowed opioids into the

country. There must be another reason. So they tried Cambridge Analytica first. Do you remember that was the first attempt? The Cambridge Analytica thing, that it was Donald Trump's ability to get in the backend of Facebook. That's why he won, but that didn't really satisfy the Democrats. And so simultaneously we know this because the Russia narrative came ex nihilo. It came out of nowhere.

And that's the way it felt. I was completely confused. And Tulsi, Tulsi is getting to the bottom of it. And I'm not going to pretend to know all the details of what she's working on. And I've been cheering her on sending her text messages saying, you go Tulsi is getting to the bottom of it. I'm not going to pretend to know all the details of what she's working on. And I've been cheering her on, sending her text messages saying, you go Tulsi, you go, because it's so wrong what happened to president Trump and so wrong what happened to our country. But when you think about it, it desensitized the entire Democrat party to

then have a very negative view of Russia, even beyond a normative Western view of Russia, as if Donald Trump is an attaché of the Kremlin. And if you hate Trump, you therefore must also hate Putin and Russia. So fast forward to Putin's invasion of Ukraine, you had the entire Democrat Party and the base of the Democrat Party that used to be anti-war, that used to be where the Ben and Jerry's guy was. You had him on your show, it was great. But the rank and file kind of had a subdued response at best to the financing of the Russian-Ukrainian war, largely because of Russiagate, because so many base members of the Democrat Party and the activists were led to believe that Donald Trump only became president because of the assistance of the Kremlin.

So smart. And can I just add one parenthetical note that a lot of them were pro-Russia when it was Soviet. Correct. Because the Soviet Union was above all anti-Christian. And then when the country became Orthodox again, it was easy to hate it again. Yes. And if you, I mean, you know this, you helped lead the, I don't want to say even anti-war, just the skepticism from the West viewpoint

that why are we sending all this money to Ukraine? Is it good for us? That used to be a left-wing thing that used to always be driven from the base of the Democrat party. And from AOC to Elizabeth Warren to Bernie Sanders, they were largely silent on the amount of money that we sent to Ukraine.

So why? Is it because they started to love war? No, it's because Putin became an acceptable villain for the Democrat Party Because they made the archetype of villain and the archetype of Putin and Trump to be kind of one in the same That all goes back to Russia gate. It goes back to the lie of The dirty dossier it goes back to our how our intel agencies Were then used inwardly against us And that has really been the story the last 30 to 40 years and you deserve a lot of credit for covering this

Which is our Intel services are supposed to gather intelligence and defend the homeland and to keep us domestically safe but it turns out they're actually more about picking winners and losers in American elections and the thwart the will of popular sovereignty. So I hope that we get to the bottom of this because we are still dealing with the real world ramifications. You have to wonder how many Ukrainians and Russians, by the way, because people are dying on both sides of this war that are made in the image of God, are unnecessarily dead because of what our intel services did in 2016 and 2017. I don't think that can be said enough. Thank you for saying it again.

That our position, I would say the war itself. I mean, I think the Biden administration provoked Russia into it by declaring that Ukraine was going to be part of NATO. That's my interpretation. I think it's true. But even if you don't buy that, we seamlessly moved from no war with Russia into an actual war with Russia, and very few people said anything about it. And I think the reason they didn't is because they had just spent the last three years hearing about how Putin was the worst person in the world. He was our main enemy, not the Chinese actually, not the Indians, not anybody else. No,

it was Russia. So do you expect that people will be held accountable for it? I hope so. I mean, look, I don't know what's in the details. I don't know what's in the documents. We kind of have a little bit of a teaser. We saw last week what Tulsi said. She said there's more coming. And basically what we learned last week for everyone that was hopefully enjoying your summer, not glued to your phone, you know, nonstop over the weekend, we learned that Obama personally ordered an intel report. It's like, hey, was it true that Russia was behind this election? And from my understanding, the report said, no,

Russia was not behind this election, did not manipulate votes. Trump was not elected because of Russia. This was in December of 2016, in a private classified intel briefing. That is now declassified thanks to Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard. What is even more chilling though,

which goes back to Peter Strzok and Lisa Page and James Comey, is how the FBI and the CIA seem to be working on the same page. The FBI was almost doing the domestic bidding of the CIA. And you have to wonder how much of this Russia gate situation was the insurance policy that Peter Struck famously put in his text messages. Remember, he was going back and forth with his lover, Lisa Page, where he was saying, hey, don't worry, we have an insurance policy. You have to wonder what exactly

was that. And my contention is that that was the Russiagate situation, that they had this dossier paid for by the Democrat Party with Clinton funds to then illegally be able to spy on the Trump campaign as an extension of that create this entire narrative and you know part of what also needs to be said is how much of Trump one was stolen from President Trump and the mandate of the people because of Russia, you know, it's very funny I was thinking about where was I and where were we as a country back in July of 2017, six months into Trump's term back in Trump one, we had Jeff Sessions basically completely sidelined because of his, you know, I have to recuse myself and honestly, an unnecessary

recusal. I think that he never should have recused himself. We had Bob Mueller. Let me just say that, whatever you think of what Sessions did or why he did it or whatever, I'm probably the only person willing to give him credit for a good faith mistake.

I think it was obviously a mistake. He was also great on crime, by the way. Sessions was actually really good on violent crime, but that's a separate issue. Beats up on Jeff Sessions. I know Jeff Sessions very well. Jeff Sessions is no liberal. Jeff Sessions is a really decent man.

Jeff Sessions made a big mistake, in my opinion, by recusing himself, but he didn't do it to sabotage Trump. He was the first senator to endorse Trump. He loved Trump. So whatever, the whole thing was a tragedy. But my point is, wherever you stand on that, it separated the president from his attorney general. And then Rod Rosenstein was running the entire DOJ.

You know what I mean? That true Trump-er Rod Rosenstein, right? So we had Rod Rosenstein- Pride of Baltimore, yes. Right, exactly. As good as it gets. So Trump was without a Department of Justice with his first term at this point, basically. Gosh. We had Bob Mueller, like, lurching back under the surface, like coming back from, you know, they brought him out of retirement. And he was kind of in a Biden state at that point. Oh, remember his interview?

You didn't know where he was or what was going on. Poor man, yeah. I just have a side note. We're learning kind of how the modern technocratic Democrat party works, which is bring an old guy with an amazing biography by DC standards. Who happens to have dementia. Yeah, just put him in the chair and then all of these 30 something lawyers that went to Yale

and Harvard will do all the work. It's kind of how a technocratic state works. But anyway, think about where we were in Trump one, which I think is really important and how we're in a profoundly better position we are today. The first year of the Trump presidency and then year two or three were largely stolen by this whole Russiagate situation is that President Trump was constantly on defense. He was constantly having to defend himself. He had Mueller looking into Manafort, looking into Cohen, looking into all of his close associates, which of course the report came out and showed no collusion and all stemming from a lie.

And that's the kicker. So to answer your question, I hope people start to go to jail. We need perp walks, we need handcuffs, we need mass arrests, because you're not allowed to steal precious time of a presidency away from the American people that otherwise would have been spent on governing. You have such a good memory.

One of the advantages of- And we did no prep on this. 31, no, no, not at all. I just threw it at you. 10 seconds more and you're gonna say, no. I'm impressed. I just threw it at you. Ten seconds more and you said, I'm impressed. The recent threat of foreign wars has turned news coverage in this country away from what's happening in the United States. And we're certainly part of that.

The downside, unfortunately, is that it plays into hands of the worst people. The establishment don't want you focused on the United States because that's a threat to their control. The more closely you look at what they're doing, the more angrier you're going to get and they're getting rich off what's happening here. The health of everyday Americans is one of the issues that we ignore. More and more people seem exhausted, anxious, foggy, overweight. Testosterone tanking in men is one of the causes of that and there are a lot of others as well. The medical system just shrugs this off and pushes, of course, more drugs.

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I also think it's just important to know that federal intel and law enforcement agencies are not allowed to form their own separate unaccountable government and run affairs of state. That's a nightmare scenario that puts you in a dictatorship totally insulated from the public. I mean, voters have no way to control that. That's not a democracy. That's a dictatorship. And that's where we are. And I just feel like it's important to expose that and to punish those responsible.

Without a doubt. And this is now the big fight in front of Trump too. And everyone knows it. We ran on it. We said it. And I think we're now going to get massive action in that direction from hopefully Cash and Dan and Pam Bondi and Todd Blanch, the whole gang, they're focused on this. And I think they're looking for the right place to strike, which is who actually runs this government. Exactly. The first term we were kind of under this very naive idea that the people run the government. That's what I thought. And then we were like, well, it's the lobbyists and it's in your right. Yes, remember?

It's the lobbyists, it's one Santa. It's K Street, it's like, yeah, okay. That is so true. But now, but after I think seven or eight years and it's taken time, we're finally back to where a lot of the Hillsdale crowd has been and Dr. Larry Arn has been to his great credit. It's the administrative state and the intel agencies. It's this fourth branch of government that the founders never created has been and Dr. Larry Arne has been to his great credit, it's the administrative state and the intel agencies.

It's this fourth branch of government that the founders never created, they never designed, there was no intent for and that fourth branch of government is unaccountable, has unknown biographies of people that are running it and they're there for unlimited amounts of time. There's no term limits, they're not elect and they're unelected. There are, and I don't want to put you in uncomfortable situations. You don't need to comment on this just brief aside, but we actually have civilian control, the control of elected leaders over those agencies,

the president, of course, but also members of Congress. We have the committees. We have intelligence boards too. Right. And we have something called the Senate Intel Committee. Right. And the person leading that, you don't have to comment on it. I think Tom Cotton's one of the most sinister people in the US government.

It's like your job is to make sure the CIA doesn't form its own separate, unaccountable government. And yet he's all in on CIA where his wife used to work. Like he is serving CIA. And what about his constituents in Arkansas? What about the rest of us? all in on CIA where his wife used to work. Like he is serving CIA. And what about his constituents in Arkansas? What about the rest of us? Why isn't the guy in charge of keeping the CIA's behavior within constitutional bounds

accountable to the president of the United States? Why isn't he doing that? And I just find it enormous. And I know that there are lots of good things about Tom Cotton. He's a nice guy, he's very smart. But like, what the hell? Why does no one say that?

And let me say this also, there are whispers that this next bill is going to be passed, whatever like perfunctory bill they have to pass, is going to try to neuter DNI. Is that they want to try to wall off Liberty Crossing. CIA wants Tulsi Gabbard, Joe Kent, and the other people, the director of the director of intelligence and that whole apparatus which was created after not which is hilarious because it was created by the worst people exactly and now it's actually a Center, it's a central nervous system for us to look under the hood and they know it Right. And so I don't know all the details this I just someone texted me yesterday and they said hey We have to make sure that Tulsi does not get

details of this. I just, someone texted me yesterday and they said, Hey, we have to make sure that Tulsi does not get basically, you know, neutered in this whole process that it just kind of becomes a ceremony. She's the one person you shouldn't doge. No, in fact, Tulsi, and this is very important. The Intel agencies by far have the least proportional civilian control versus careers. That's exactly what CIA has like three or four. And Ratcliffe is, you know, fighting for his life there.

And it's like, who runs, you know, you have all these unknown amounts of people and what are they doing? And it's a black box budget. And I believe that all roads lead back to the intelligence and all this stuff. And so, but Tulsi is now getting under the hood. This revelation of Russiagate is massive. It's huge. I know.

And God bless her for doing this. And I know the president cares about it personally as he should, because how much of his life and his energy was just spent defending against a fabrication, not a fabrication of the Chinese Communist Party, by the way, not a fabrication of our adversaries, a fabrication of our own government. That's what makes this so sinister is that our own government was turned against the duly elected president.

So here we are now in the year of our Lord 2025, who's running the United States government? And President Trump, he is now the hunter. He was the hunted back in the first term. I know what the grassroots want. I know what President Trump wants. We need perp walks, we need arrests, we need accountability. And if we do not smash the administrative state and the deep state in the coming six to 12 months, then we're actually not gonna,

we're not gonna bring this entire intelligence apparatus to heel. We have to lance the boil because it's gone so out of control. And I can tell you, they are deeply fearful of this movement. They know that we are aware. They notice that, they know that we are noticing things, that we're seeing patterns,

that we know how powerful the intelligence agencies have become. And so that's why I think Russiagate really matters, is that it's a way to hold them accountable, to see how dark and honestly demonic their activities have become. And hopefully an opportunity to fulfill a mandate that President Trump ran on,

and I still know believes to this day, which is to bring the deep state to hopefully smash it or at the very least bring it back into balance. And the deep state is the intelligencies. Well, that's the shadow government, right? CIA, DIA. It's not the education department. If I could chime in. So there's two types of deep state, right? There's the department education, deep state. They just slow things down. That's their only, they leak and they delay. That's it. That's the deep state of the Department of Labor. So they, oh, you're getting some sort of executive order

we don't like, we're gonna leak it to the Washington Post. We're not gonna do what you tell us. We're just gonna delay and we're gonna last. Okay, fine. We can deal with leaking and delaying. The third of which though, which the Department of Labor is not doing, they're not configuring their agency against the sovereign.

No. They're probably not killing anyone. No, exactly. So the intel agencies in its inherited composition from Joe Biden and how it's been for the last 40 years, leaking and delaying, they're like, that's child's play. We're gonna go do dirty dossiers, we're gonna spy, we're gonna employ feds, we're gonna use special agents,

double agents, we're gonna use Five Eyes, we're gonna rely on our foreign partners to spy on Americans domestically because we can't do that and they'll, they'll share the intelligence. And so a lot of focus kind of goes on, let's just say the lazy slop of the people at the, you know, department of interior. Okay, fine. We can clean that up. God, you know, God bless the people that want to do that.

But if we do not focus the energy of this movement on the administrative state, then we are going to have elections in name only. And I know the president understands this because he lived through a thwarted first term largely because of the intel agencies and what we would like to call the shadow government. Trump, 97 charges against him all in.

Yes. And we still don't know what happened on July 13th. We certainly don't at Butler. That's exactly right. Why don't we know that Dino? I don't. I don't know. And I know that we have the right, we could not have better people

in those positions. At the top. You know Dan Bongino well, I could speak very high for his integrity. Oh, I love Dan. Yeah. And so I'm going to, they need to act on this. Yep. And I have no, I don't have much more to say than that, but I don't know.

FBI needs to, and, um, I think specifically the FBI on that. Yeah. And the FBI stonewalling and it's not Bongino. It's not Cash Patel. It's that I know of. I don't know actually, but I know that there's stonewalling and it's not Bongino, it's not Cash Patel, it's that I know of. I don't know, actually, but I know that they're stonewalling on that and I think it's very weird.

They still can't get into Crooks' devices? The whole thing is so bizarre. Really? Because they can read my text messages, I notice. They can read your signal messages. And they have. Which is even worse than text messages. I haven't even shot anybody.

I will. Yeah. You're not Dick Cheney. Um, I will, I will go a step further. I try to not spend too much time on July 13th because it's bad for my brain. Totally agree. It's so weird. It's so bizarre. I like spending time with my wife and my kids.

And I try to have a very focused subset of issues that I get passionate about. So I feel things that I can't about. That's how I feel. Things that I can't get to answers on will drive me endlessly insane. So I want one day to find out what happened on July 13th because by only the grace of God and by a millimeter is Trump alive and is Trump president. If you can murder presidential candidates,

it's not a democracy, obviously. And get away with it. And get away with it. And get away with it, right. But they just can't get into his devices. I mean, he had no social media profile. How did he get on the roof and how was it unguarded? And then it was two days before the Republican National Convention.

It felt, again, if you were to kind of go in a dark place, which again, this is all speculation, it felt like, well, this is our last chance before he's the nominee. Because you know what happens once you're the nominee, you get secret service protection and this is an unknown element of this literally, as soon as you get to become the nomination by bylaws of secret service, whatever you get equal presidential protection. So he had a bunch of like DHS hangovers, you know, no offense to the people that

were protecting him on the day of Butler, some of which had a bunch of like DHS hangovers, you know No offense to the people that were protecting him on the day of Butler some of which had a great job Some of which are not people I would necessarily, you know go to war with no Just you know more more of the TSA agent mold than the Secret Service agent mold and again That's not a criticism of them So if you want to get like really dark and go in that direction you have to ask those questions But I try not to focus too much on Butler because I think it And actually it leads you in a place where you ask more questions and we have answers. I have the same instincts.

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you're way more effective than the RNC, though I think they have a bigger budget than you. We get along great with them. I'm not quite sure what they will then. I don't want to cause you problems. I have no idea what to do. Back when Ronna was running things, we did not get, we were very vocal about getting rid of Ronna McRomney. But I think you're the most effective Republican organizer.

Certainly among young people you are and you deal with them and you wait into the crowd and you go to college campuses and you debate people and you have a tactile sense, I think, of what younger voters care about. And so I'll just ask you the obvious question, what do they care about? So there's a race against the clock that's happening right now.

And I think President Trump is uniquely suited to fix it. He has to fix it. He has to fix it, which is can we reorder the economic reality of under thirties before dark political radicalization sets in. The economic reality. Correct. It's there's a topic that's never broached. Well, here we go.

No, but it's just interesting before you, it's interesting. That's your first answer. The economics. I have always noticed, and I am insulated from a lot of that stuff. I'll admit, I don't really notice. I would be otherwise if I didn't spend as much time. Because we're, we do very well. We're in the top income bracket. So, well, I just noticed no one talks about it. So I think that's weird. People

just talk about economics, they don't anymore. So you think that that's economics is the number one issue for young people. If we don't address it, we go to dark places. What does that mean? So a couple things. Number one, the rise of Mamdani should be a it's a coming attraction of what is coming next. Mamdani, Zoran Mamdani, the the Muslim communist that is running for mayor in New York City, who obviously there's a whole rabbit hole we can go down there.

He just looks kind of be like central casting and his ideas are terrible. He wants the city to run the grocery stores, all that. But I think everyone's kind of, not everyone, but most people are missing the point of really what this is. This is yet another distress signal by young people to say, hey, if you're not going to fix our life economically, we're going to get very radical politically. But let's take a step back. President Trump won the youth vote in many states across the country, in many battleground states. Now Tucker, 12, 13 years ago when I started Turning Point,

if you would have told me that a Republican running for the presidency would be winning the youth vote in Michigan and in Arizona, I'd say, no way. It's an incomprehensible accomplishment of what President Trump was able to do. One of the reasons he was able to win younger voters and younger men, especially in big numbers, is that they were trying to get their leaders' attention.

They said, hey, this guy, Donald Trump, he is pledging to go fix our economic anxiety. He is loud. He is going to get your attention. Donald Trump was a distress signal by a lot of young people, especially young men, that were stuck in a credit-centric renter economy. And again, this is what is the rise of Mom Donnie.

It's just another iteration of this only from the left, which is- A credit centric renter economy. Yes, which is the way that we need to focus, that we need to kind of frame this. And conservatives, I think I know why, are just so unwilling to have this conversation. And I'm not even to get into what we should do about it.

I think I have some good ideas. Trust me, I'm not a socialist. I'm a market guy. I like capitalism. I think markets are good. I think entrepreneurship is good. But we need to kind of paint this picture first because I think so many, I know this for certain.

So many people in DC have no idea what I'm talking about when I bring this up to them. And secondly, a lot of people over 50 think this is a foreign concept and they think quite honestly this is just the complaining of young people that don't want to work. So let me kind of paint this picture. It is harder than ever to own a home. We know this, but how much harder?

Back when my parents had to go own a home, the price of a home- How old are your parents? They're early 70s, so late 60s, early 70s, so baby boomers. And great parents, by the way, phenomenal upbringing, great values. So back when they wanted to go buy a home in their beginning income years, 1970s, 1980s, home prices were on average about three times the average income in America. They are now seven times the average income in America. They are now seven times the average income in America. Rents have gone up inflation adjusted

from about $900 a month to now about $1,500 a month. Inflation adjusted. Inflation adjusted. The age of a first time home buyer in 2008 was 30 years old. It is now 38 years old, first time home buyer. So when we have a picture of a first time home buyer. So when we have a picture of first time home buyer, that's scary. You think of, you know, kind of a toddler in one arm,

a dog, you're trying to figure it out, 38 years old. So what is causing this? Well, number one, I don't want to get like too Ron Paul libertarian, but the Federal Reserve pumping in cheap money post 2008 has just been a catastrophe. We have spent too much money, borrowed too much money. We have deteriorated our currency

and the purchasing power every generation is getting weaker. So your dollar is actually going, it's going less and less as far as it has year over year. So then what is the consequence of this? So you have a generation that is renting a lot more than it's owning. So when you do not own something, why would you defend it? And so you find then political radicalization start to seep in because an entire generation

is getting routinely cynical year over year as their net worth either stays at zero or goes into negative. Now my question for every Republican senator and congressman watching this, if you do not know these four letters, then you are not doing your job. BNPL. Do you know what that means? No clue. Buy now pay later. Buy now pay later is how 60% according to surveys of Generation Z is paying for things month to month. They're not credit cards. So this is not regulated by credit bureaus. It's not regulated with credit checks.

It's basically anything from Amazon to Instacart, groceries, clothing, furniture. You can finance anything. It's BNPL. It's run by three main companies, Klarna, Affirm, and Afterpay. And essentially you're 21, 22 years old. You can split a pizza into four payments.

Sounds great, right? This is the modern tech economy. Buy a pizza on credit? Yes. You right now- What's happening now? You can go to Instacart right now and either through Klarna, Affirm, or Afterpay.

Those are the three big actors. These are non-credit regulated bureaus. Shut those fuckers down tomorrow. No, I'm serious. I'm so offended. Here's a depressing but true statistic. Nearly half of American adults, they would suffer financial hardship within six months if they lost their primary income earner. That's a telling sign that people are living on the edge. Many of them. The economy is fragile. That's true for millions and millions of people. What do you do about it?

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One is a Swedish company and one is an Australian company. I did a deep dive into this. You can buy a pizza on credit? Yes, you can buy almost anything on credit. Concert tickets, you can buy. So when I, I'm like, I'm a big sports fan, I'm a huge Chicago Cubs fan, you know, it's just fun. I grew up in Chicago.

When I go to buy tickets at Wrigley Field, they say, you know, finance this over the next three years using Klarna. Actually? Yes, they say, you know, finance this over the next three years using Klarna. Actually? Yes. Concert tickets, Taylor Swift tickets. I mean, so what you have is a workaround. What's the collateral?

There's no credit score. So it's just you. It's like your social security. They're collateralizing you. So it's very high risk for the quote unquote lender, but they have the late fees and the penalties make these companies eventually hold because they know they got you. And again, this is not regulated by traditional credit bureaus.

So the federal government has not really weighted in on this yet. And again, you could, I mean, you're younger folks can affirm everything I'm saying. Right. I mean, am I correct? I'm not making any of this up. It's BNPL. So when I sit down with a Republican Senator...

Wait, I never think if myself is out of it or not in touch or whatever, I flatter myself that I've got my thumb on the pulse of the country. I am shocked. I've heard people refer to this. I didn't realize you could, if you can buy a pizza on credit, someone needs to... So, but here's the kicker and your groceries. The belief is that Gen Z is doing this to live above their means. Some, most are actually doing this to meet their means. So that's the definition of predatory. Right. And so again, this is not structurally healthy debt. So there's an argument for debt if you have a mortgage, because the whole system is kind of rigged

towards mortgages. Of course it is. You could deduct the interest, the asset price goes up. It's hard to get off the mortgage addiction. I did it, but- There's an argument for it. You take your lumps if you don't have a mortgage. And I think there's an argument that's actually an okay

and reconcilable type of debt. I know smart people have mortgages. If you are in investment banking and you have student loan debt and that student loan certificate, that credential got you the investment bank, okay, you bet on yourself. Maybe that's just a foul.

Again, I'm very anti-college as you know. There's really no place where you can make an argument that financing your whole foods order is good for you. But to do that to young people who really, I mean, I'm 56 and I'm still terrible with money. I mean, it's hard. And I don't think I'm lazy. I'm not lazy.

And I don't think I'm profligate, but I also think I'm easily fooled because I'm distracted. And if I was 21, imagine how much more unsophisticated I would be and how much more vulnerable to predatory behavior like that. And everything is so easy because everything is digital now. I mean, that's an awful thing to do to young people. And it creates a subterranean debt market that a lot of these young people think this is how you pay for stuff.

They haven't been educated else otherwise. They'll go, yeah, I'll just, you know, pay for that meal in five installments. What are the interest rates like? They can get very high. I don't want to speak out of turn, but they can get to be double digits. Right. And so that's really where they get you is the late fees. This is bonkers.

And so it's not, it's not regulated by traditional APR. So this is a very, it's a gray area. And I think people are finally waking up. So, Hey Republicans, can you tell me the name of the three companies again? So it's Affirm. Affirm. Affirm, Klarna. Klarna.

Klarna and Afterpay. Afterpay, which is the American one. I believe so, yeah. So one of them was bought by Box and is operated by Square, which I believe is Klarna. I don't want to speak out of term here. One of them was, it's still Australian run, but it's run by box. It might be after pay.

Someone can fact check me on this, but those are the three big actors and they've kind of just gone below the surface. So we create all this economic anxiety by pumping the system with cheap money. Everything gets more expensive. Meanwhile, we have millions of young people that are financing their Coachella tickets, but it's not through credit cards because in credit cards, we have a very regimented regulated system. I think the card of credit cards are a disaster and we need to kind of figure that out. But this is a totally different thing.

And so what they've done is they've tried to create a loophole and federal regulators are slow as they typically are. And they're like, oh, no, this is not credit cards. This is something else. This is like a repayment thing. It's like buy now, pay later. And it's the opposite of what built the West. What built the West is work now, pay after. So you're going to pay, meaning like we will enjoy things later. That's what built the West. This is like enjoy things now and pay for it later. It is a... You know what I don't like about conservatives and I am one,

is that it would never occur to some of them that there are two sides to the story. It's like immediately, you know, they blame the people who are, you know, buying Coachella tickets on credit, which I get. You shouldn't buy Coachella tickets on credit or your pizza or your Whole Foods order. I totally agree with that that's stupid But they never it doesn't occur to them that there's another side to the people loaning the money You are taking advantage of the dumb people borrowing the money They both are culpable and by the way I think the people with more power and more wisdom

Probably more culpable act morally than the people who are. In other words, like, do we matter at the drug user or the drug dealer? And then also typically the dealer, but conservatives look at all economic arrangements and they never blame the dealer. And I don't know what that is. Like, how about we'll blame everybody. It's bad. I think the reason and it's a tick within the conservative movement is that all of a sudden we're Marxists if we do that.

And I think that they're, no, I'm not saying, I don't believe that. No, no, but you're absolutely right. I think that there's a- It's like I'm a racist if I don't like mass immigration. Well, I don't like mass immigration, but I'm not a racist. I don't like this and I'm not a Marxist. Like, it's just name calling to stop you from raising the question. It's thought terminating cliches is what it is.

So good. Right? It's stop thinking it because we we're gonna terminate your thought by calling you a Marxist or whatever. And do I think this should be illegal? I don't know, probably. I need to learn more about it. All I'm saying is I am here as a messenger

of the next generation. I'm telling you, this is bad. This generation can't own anything. They owe so much more money than generations prior. This is the most indebted generation in history. And I double checked that. Gen Z owes the most money in any generation in history. So we wonder why then all of a sudden,

hey, you want to go buy a home. Now at the age of 38, your credit score is destroyed. Your spending habits are terrible. You don't want to save and you don't think you should save. And you know what I hear from some of them is they say, well, why should I save when what I saw around me is that you need to get into this economy and spend, spend, spend because the savers got wrecked in 2008. Again, that's an oversimplification, but there is economic nihilism that is set in to a lot of this next generation where they're not participating in any of the upside right now,

any of the upside of the last five years. In fact, they're only seeing the downside. They're seeing their apartments get smaller, their rents go up, their groceries get more expensive. Now mind you, I think President Trump is, again, he's uniquely positioned to solve this. I think that his one big, beautiful bill is gonna help, and I think growth will help this

in lowering interest rates. But let me just say though, why do I say it's a race against the clock? And here's why it should concern conservatives. Because when I'm at dinner parties raising money, some of our donors are a little indifferent about this, they'll have kind of like a hey, pull yourself up by the bootstraps attitude. That's hard to shake. I don't have that attitude. I actually have a lot more compassion for the 23 year old that is working a double double shift and can't afford anything. But even if you don't care about them, you're not

going to like the politics that comes next. But how do we wind up on the side of the money lenders? I mean, at no other time in history has Epic considered a virtuous business at all. I know a million people in that business, finance we call it, but I don't understand why they became immune from criticism and that's, I mean, there are places where, you know, loaning my bar, a lot of money in my life and I'm grateful for it and all that, but I don't think it's virtuous and I don't think we should say that it's virtuous. I don't think the people who should do it, who do it should be above criticism. I don't know why is the right participating in basically a cover-up

of a crime against people? Or even like from my perspective, why is the right so blind to the suffering of the young people that just gave you a Senate majority? Oh my God, a fair, good question. So Roe v. Wade was overturned three years ago and people celebrated, but the battle over abortion is not over.

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You should be saying thank you, younger voters. You voted Republican in overwhelming numbers. That's one of the reasons, again, I like Dave McCormick a ton, so I'm not throwing him into this, but younger voters helped put Dave McCormick as a US Senator. And I think he gets this more so than most. Donald Trump built this movement of younger voters

that galvanized the nation. Again, this is the untold story of the 2024 election is how Donald Trump won the youth vote in so many parts of the country. Okay, so what are they experiencing? They own nothing. They're renting constantly. And they're involved in this scam of a credit based economy. Everything is based on credit. And so then what it does is it deteriorates your capacity of equity. And so, again, I'm not here to propose

like a solution of all these different policy requirements. All I'm saying is how about some national attention for this? How about there's going to be a conversation about it? There's going to be a policy solution imposed on the rest of us, which is just stealing your stuff. Well, that's the thing. So that's what I'm, this is where the continuum, whatever you want to call it, the spectrum, you know, whatever DC term we're here in kind of, again, I am a market guy. I like private property. I agree. I like trading. I like when I meet someone good at their craft and they're a carpenter or they're a small business owner. I actually want to save markets. And if we don't do something about this, you're going to get a

Venezuelan style youth led revolt. And I am not exaggerating because what I see right here is with this next generation, younger voters, young men in particular, they're going right. They hate all the cultural stuff. The trans stuff is driving them crazy. The hyper feminization of the economy, which we should talk about because I want to talk about that. The whole economy has become feminized the last couple of decades and no one has the courage to really talk about it.

That's not just female empowerment. It's more than that. No, because we went from blue collar jobs to pink collar jobs. I don't want to, I can't wait, but I already interrupt. We can talk about pink collar in a second because that's super important because that's because male unemployment is significantly higher than female unemployment. But let's put a little button in that and just revisit in a second. Political radicalism needs a catalyst. Political radicalism does not come out of peace, prosperity, rising wages, stable families, church attendance, and happy people. Happy people, grateful people, do not get behind Vladimir Lenin

and they certainly don't get behind Chavez or Castro. That's right. People that own nothing, that feel like their property is diminishing or they don't have property or their dollar is diminishing in value, they start to look for alternatives. And so the political project in front of us

as conservatives should be, how do we actually de-radicalize the country in the next couple of years? That's my obsession. That's why I say I try not to think about all this other stuff, because it's just, you know, it's such brain space. My number one obsession is I know what is coming next because nobody spends more time on college campuses than me.

I hate to like pull rank on that, but I spend a hundred hours a semester on college campuses. And you're getting no credits? No, I get no credits for that. I still I still don't have a college degree. No, I love that. No, but I but I listen more. And that's the thing I know you say, you know, people ask all the time, Hey, why do you do these campus events? Why don't you just give a speech? Because I listen as much as I talk. And I, I put my microphone down and these videos have been seen around the world and people have grown

familiar. But almost all of them are like, Charlie, I don't know what to do. Like trading crypto till 2am and kind of, you know, betting that the Green Bay Packers are going to win the Super Bowl. That's not enough for me, Charlie. What can we do? And one of the reasons they voted for Trump is they said, President Trump, please reorder this economy for us because it's severely disordered. And so the Republican Party currently is focused on a lot of stuff. I get it. You have a lot of constituencies to serve, but we have participated, we being the body politic the last 20 years, especially the last 10, in a concerted effort of intergenerational

theft. And if you don't care, Mamdani is just the beginning. So someone in the next 10 years is going to shut it down because the public doesn't want this at all. They don't want shut what down shut down just the parasite economy. Oh, yeah, you know, it's going to get shut down. This is and everyone participating in it knows that they're trying to steal as much as they can before it gets shut down.

So the question is, is it shut down by Teddy Roosevelt or is it shut down by Hugo Chavez? Well, here's here's the brilliance of Teddy Roosevelt. So there's a lot of anti-Roosevelt fervor on the right. There is? Yeah, yeah. Why? Well, not a lot.

I should say amongst the intellectuals. They're the worst. Why do they dislike Teddy Roosevelt? So part of it I get, part of it is that he was- The war craziness? Well, actually it's funny. He actually ended the Russo-Russo Japanese war. I think he got a Nobel prize for it, if I'm not mistaken, right?

Yep. Did he get a Nobel Peace Prize for it? I don't know, but... But anyway, he deserved one. It was a bloody war. No, some would say that Roosevelt began the progressive era. I think that's an over description. I don't want to get into that because I'm not that interested in that.

What I'm interested in though, is how Roosevelt was one of the few... We were one of the few powers to successfully manage the transition from the farms to the factories. And that's hard when you think about it. You have your entire population that is moving into cities, that transition, if done incorrectly, creates a ruling class that is untouchable. So Roosevelt was like,

actually I'm here to save capitalism. I'm here to save markets. And he did. And he did. And that is the enduring legacy of Roosevelt. Obviously the national parks, which my wife and I are enjoying right now and Untouched Beauty, which I think is amazing.

And just the fact that he was a hunter and outdoorsman and like a man's man and super masculine and all that was awesome. I don't love the fact he ran for president in 1912 out of bitterness, but that's a whole separate thing. He gave us Woodrow Wilson because of that. It's hard to decelerate for guys like- No, I mean, he's, you know, I know the type. Yeah, I do too.

But, but, but his legacy that I want us to the Rooseveltian, whatever, I don't think that's the right term. You know, let's coin it. Let's coin the Rooseveltian energy or aura to use a Gen Z term is, Hey, don't be ideological. Have a prudential aim. What do we want? We want an ownership economy, want people that feel invested, that have real equity. So how do we get there non-ideologically? Because we actually want to preserve markets because

we want a country. What I commonly say- Are people listening to you? I hope people in charge are listening to you. Well, the president listens to me. He's amazing. People in Capitol Hill don't listen to me very much. They need to listen to you. What you're saying is true. Well, thank you. And I, again, I am, this is gonna sound really cringe, but like in some ways people have compared me

to like Paul Revere and it's like I'm warning of something that is coming. Like the Bolsheviks are coming, the Bolsheviks are coming. I wrote a book on this and no one paid any attention. Well, I did. No, but I'm saying it's gotten so much worse and your explanation is so much more vivid than anything I came up with.

And you have the credibility that I did not have, which is someone who's, well, doesn't have a college degree and is constantly on college campuses. I just hope they're listening, because this is the story. This is the biggest story happening that has not yet happened.

And that's what I always say, is that it's happening, but it hasn't yet happened on the front page. And what it does, don't be shocked when all of a sudden people are calling for a 75% wealth tax. That's happening. And they want a 50% tax on capital gains. Totally right. And so what Roosevelt, just to complete the Roosevelt point, is that when you know what you want and you can aim towards it, you can shed yourself off the bumper sticker logic. Yes.

And you can get towards something practical and prudent, real and beautiful. The best leaders in American history, the ones that are underrated honestly, the Roosevelts and the Eisenhowers, they were non-ideological. Exactly. They were nationalistic, they were America first, they loved the country, and they weren't caring about whether or not they were fitting a mold of a think tank white paper. And TR was a sincere Christian. Yes, and I believe Eisenhower was as well.

I don't actually know. So the statesmanship dilemma of today is, can you either challenge or convince? Because one of the others, the ruling class, that this is necessary. And I don't think convincing is going to work. No. So you have to challenge them. And hilariously, it's actually the best thing for them because otherwise they're coming for their mansions and they're coming for their assets and they're

coming for their companies. And I don't want to live in that country. I do not want to live in South Africa. I don't want to live in a resentment bitterness country where I have to drive around in armored cars all the time and I can't leave my house after 10 p.m. We don't even know who lives here. Well, that's a whole other component. No, but I'm just saying that makes it more volatile. So if there is a horse severe economic contraction, and of course, at some point there will be,

you're not going to have a civilian conservation corps. It's like because the country is inherently not united and citizens have nothing in common with each other. And like, who are my neighbors? They don't even speak my language. They don't know what the civil war was. We're not on the same page on any level. And they have expectations that are totally unrealistic because they were getting free stuff the second they got here. So like man, you could have this is an emergency, I think. Yes, and it is a volcano waiting to explode. I mean any one of your metaphors that you could put in, but we are a nation of strangers.

The ties that bind us together are purely economic. If you think about it, it's not language, it's not culture, it's not religion, it's not, you know, shared history, it's not any of that. We are basic, we have, and this is the distinction, it's that economy, I ask Republican leaders all the time, because voters get it, that's the thing. Do you want to be a country or a colony? What do you mean? Tell me the difference. Because I could tell you what a colony is. A colony is a place where everyone just kind of comes and they trade stuff and you have a good time, and you kind of go in your own little corner, but you know, you have nothing in common We are it is the it is the reverse colonization of america, which is the greatest of all ironies, right? Because we tried to do the colonization thing

But we are colonizing ourselves you think about it because we really don't have much in common anymore We're kind of in our own little corner and all that unites us is The dollar bill and we're told that that is the most important thing. Well, what happens when the dollar bill then shreds? You see, economic volatility is survivable if you're a nation of neighbors. Exactly. Because then you go to church and then you have commonality

and you're like, you kind of bind together and you figure it out. Like the Great Depression, for example. We survived that because we were a different people demographically, we were different religiously. But when you're a nation of strangers, filled with third-worlders that don't really understand what this country is about,

and they're just here for free stuff socialism, watch out. Again, I don't like the term emergency. I'm not challenging on it only because I don't want to do the Greta Thunberg thing where like the sky is falling. You know what I mean? It just drives me crazy. The over-catastrophization of American politics. It's a problem that needs to be addressed immediately. But it will become

an emergency. Like it is a canary in the coal mine, it's a harbinger, it is a sign, it's a warning of things to come that if I get 10 minutes with somebody, I think I can convince them it's kind of a problem-ish. But then as a step further it has all these other secondary problems and third and fourth tier problems like birth rate collapse and marriage issues and young men not participating in the labor force. And then you don't have a civilization. And so I guess that's a long-winded way to say that almost every politician when they run for office will give some sort of euphemism, some sort of thing.

I'm doing this because of my kids and they bring up their beautiful family up on stage. You've seen this, what, 500 times. Are you really doing this for your kids? Are you really doing this for the next generation? Because if you were, you wouldn't be doing what you're currently doing. This is just settling hard on me because you've confirmed and put a much finer point on a lot of things that I can intuit, I can smell, and to some extent see. But so when you talk to college kids, the first thing they bring up is money. No, not always. I shouldn't say that. Sometimes it's abortion, sometimes it's trans, sometimes it's foreign policy. But the undercurrent of anxiety is economic.

I do get more economic questions than anything else for sure, but I don't want to oversimplify. But let me also divide this into two different categories. So young women are doing much better in this economy than young men. For the first time in the last 30 years, young male unemployment is around 7%, young female unemployment is around 4%. So we are seeing the creation of kind of the lost boys. They're disappearing, they're leaving the workforce, we don't really know what they're

doing all day long. You and I can speculate, but they're not reading Montesquieu. They're not reading Montesquieu. If you know a whole society organized around hating white men, should it shock us that they're being destroyed? No. How is this an accident? No, it's a deliberate intentional campaign.

And so what I find, young men are flocking to our events, and they want meaning and they want purpose. And some of this is values. I don't want to say this is not all economics. I want to be very clear. But some of those, it's- You're making me so radical. That my first thought was, make them a militia, Charlie.

No, no, no. Harm them. No, sorry. Disavow. No. Disavow, you disavow that completely. I'm the lunatic here, not you. You are very, you've got a future.

Yeah, okay. But so I mentioned this earlier, I want to dive into this. The entire economy has become hyperfeminized. The entire economy has become hyperfeminized. The education system has become hyperfeminized. I'm sure you've heard those arguments. Well, yeah, I've got a lot of kids. Yeah, again, sit still, do what you're told, right?

Read the hyper feminine books. But you think about what are the jobs that have had the greatest emphasis of the credentialing, which basically is what college is. It's just a massive credentialing exercise. They're not the more masculine of the credentialing, you know, which basically is what college is, it's just a massive credentialing exercise. They're not the more masculine jobs that we need, which is like industrial engineering or they're HR managers. They're norm enforcers.

They're empathy driven. They're sociologists or DEI czars. And so thankfully, we're finally pushing back on DEI. But a young man doesn't want to go be an HR manager. I mean, they would rather go to a WNBA game than be an HR manager. I mean, it's that's that's a strong thing to say. It's, it's, we don't, it's a it's a coin toss. But I don't think they're allowed to be HR managers, are they? No, but that's a straight man. No, of course not. And so the entire economy, the push, the thrust, the last decade has been the growth has been in what we call pink collar jobs,

jobs that men would rather sit at home and kind of just be, you know, slovenly than be caught doing because it's just so demeaning to how we as men are wired. They're not about creation or risk taking or value proposition or, you know, boundary pushing. They're kind of about, well, here are the rules and the norms and we must enforce them. By the way, there is a rule... They're mom jobs. Exactly. And you know why they're mom jobs? Because these women aren't moms. Okay, now I think we need a militia, but whatever. Okay, that's sorry.

Now this is... No, because you think about it. Yeah, I have thought about it, but whatever. Okay, that's sorry. Now this is... No, because you think about it. Yeah, I have thought about it, but I haven't thought about it as deeply as you thought about it. You are connecting the dots though. Because why are these women playing mom at work? Because they don't have kids at home. That's dark, man.

It's true. So the effect is, I mean, the effect is obvious. And all of this comes from economics. Not all of it, there's values too. Of course, but to some extent, I just noticed that living in a predominantly black city and then spending part of the year in an entirely white area that had been deindustrialized, you saw kind of similar, you saw lots of million differences.

Well, there was no violence in the all white area for one thing, which I'm grateful for, zero violence. But you did see similar family formation patterns where as the jobs for men disappeared, people stopped getting married. That's right. And so what I thought was purely about values, like decent people get married when they have children.

I totally agree with this, yes. Turned out to be partly about values, but also the values were shaped by the economic realities. And women don't want to marry men who make less than they do, so they didn't get married. The same reason why women don't like dating guys smaller than them. Exactly.

Because they know intuitively at some point, they're going to be pregnant, and they're going to be vulnerable, and they want a man to be able to defend them. And so again, women have been, my wife is right here, they have an interesting way of communicating. They won't put it as bluntly as I am right now. So let me just kind of put it all out there.

Women deep down want to be protected and served. And so they don't want a guy that is earning less or that at some point they feel as if they're gonna have to provide for. That is very off-putting. So Scott Galloway, who's a man of the left, he's actually done some really good scholarship on this. He's from NYU.

He has a really important point that I think is necessary to hone in on. When women get disenchanted in the dating pool, they focus on friendships and work, which is totally true. They pour all their energy into either friendships or in work. We see that when men get disenchanted with a dating pool, they pull out from society basically altogether. Because you know why? There's like a hint of embarrassment and shame. Not just a hint.

It's the definition of shame. Yes. You can't provide, you failed. So the women are more likely to graduate college, they're more likely to close on a home, they're more economically secure. They're also simultaneously many of which are miserable. We know this, they're the most incredibly addicted antidepressants and suicidal ideation. The numbers speak for themselves.

The most miserable women of the West are those that are unmarried without kids. The numbers know that, they speak it out. And again, this is materially true. We see this in our life. Well, the rate of diagnosed mental illness is like off the chart. Yeah. And I think part of that is just confirmation bias. I think we're looking for more of it so people think they have it more.

But I will also say that people are, we and I both see it, they're unhappier. This is an unhappier generation. Yes. And let me just be clear. I think most diagnosed mental illness is a total lie. Some of which is legit. Of course. You and I both feel the same. Sofreni is real, but I mean, whatever. That's a whole separate conversation.

And I would refer everybody to Laura Delano, who was diagnosed with profound mental illness and recovered. I had a conversation with her earlier this summer that was one of the most, I'm still thinking about it. Let me just put it that way. Laura Delano as in Franklin Delano Roosevelt. I'll have to check that out. It's worth it. It's worth it. Anyway, sorry to interrupt. No, and so the entire configuration of the West has been to put men down and to put women up. And so what are the consequences of that? Declining marriage rates, declining fertility rates, and then a disordered mess.

So I keep on going back to that word disordered, and it's a very important word. We could use chaotic or we could use bedlam, but that is what young people are feeling. They can't always put it into words, but they're like, Trump, MAGA hat, something's wrong. Let's go to the Charlie Kirk event. And they're trying to like piece this all together.

They know something is just so off. They're like, women don't want to date me and I don't want to date them. And everything's expensive. And what's going on here? So the task in front of us is conservative. And we're perfectly positioned for this because we're not people of the left. We don't seek the destroyer to burn. We're arsonists.

Is to kind of reorder this, put it back together to say, okay, how do we go wrong? Too much emphasis on pink collar. So Larry Fink, who I'm not a fan of at all, from BlackRock, he said something very interesting that no one decided in the mainstream media cover. He said, there's an urgent need right now for 500,000 electricians. 500,000 electricians.

So here's a guy, the $10 trillion man, he's one of the largest funds he controls. By the way, he's also purchasing single-family homes which are pricing families out of buying homes. We're going to get into that, I think, in a second, which I want to talk about. But here he's saying that there's a need for 500,000 non-college-educated jobs.

You're trying to tell me that we don't need more sociologists? We don't need more communication majors? And then how... how about media studies? Yeah, exactly. Media studies or North African lesbian poetry. And so we peel back this a little bit. We realize that one of the other reasons why men are being checked out of this whole system is that parents and the whole momentum behind young men

have pushed them into a feminized system when in reality it would have been better for them to just not go to college in the first place and pursue just normal blue collar trades of which we have the greatest deficit in our country. But it goes, that part is all, it's very, this is not economics as much as it is social status. And you said this on your show once,

it was a one sentence thing I'll never forget. And I've repeated it like a hundred times. Upper middle-class suburban parents do not wanna tell their friends their kids are working construction. Yeah. I don't know if you even remember saying that, but. No, but I've seen, I was forced to work construction

by my father as a child, and it totally changed my life and my outlook on everything and I made lifelong friendships, literally lifelong. And I remember I didn't force my own kids to work construction, to be honest. It's not even a matter of forcing them. Society changed so much. Yeah, but it's almost... When you destroyed the white working class, which they did on purpose because they hate them above all for some reason. When you destroy the white working class, then you have immigrants running everything at the bottom. And I'm not against immigrants.

I like them actually, but I'm not going to send my kids to work on a drywall crew where they're the only English speakers. So there's actually, it cuts off that whole, I worked in a factory, I worked at a gas station. I was a dishwasher in a restaurant. I worked construction. That's what I did in the summer for high school and college.

And I was from a rich family, but they made me do that. And it totally changed my life. But I wasn't unusual in that. I hitchhiked, they made me hitchhike too. My parents did, and that was pretty normal. And it wasn't that long ago, it was the 80s. Now you can't do that because no one else working those jobs has anything in common with your children. They're not from here. They're strangers. Exactly.

And on top of that, there is a belief by upper middle class America that those are the dirtier lower class jobs. 100%! But they don't even speak English. So it's like not even a thing. It's a barrier to entry. You have to send your kid to work at a clothing store in Martha's Vineyard because if you want to work, I'm serious, if you want to work in class job, what else is there? Do you know what I mean? I know exactly what you mean.

When I worked in a kitchen in 1985, everybody in the kitchen had a criminal record, every single one. But of course, every dishwasher has been to prison for something, right? But they were all Americans and they all spoke English and you'd like take a cigarette break with them and you could like talk to them and they were part of your country and your culture. They were at the lower end.

I'm from La Jolla, California. I'm with this guy, you know, he's got tattoos on his neck and he's done 15 years or something awful. But like he was recognizable as an American. I'm not gonna send my kids to a kitchen. I'm sure they're better. I'm sure the Hondurans are better people than the people I work with, but they he was recognizable as an American. I'm not going to send my kids to a kitchen now. I'm sure they're better. I'm sure the Hondurans are better people than the people I work with, but they're not Americans. That's right. And so what does all this mean? If, if these young men stay lost and they came out in huge numbers vote for president Trump,

and we don't give them purpose, the civilization will collapse. You, you cannot have a generation of young men just check out. So when Biden says the number one threat are straight white men, which he said about a million times, or what are they? White nationalism or Christian nationalism? He's talking about young white men. That's what he's talking about. He's talking about me and the young men I represent.

Bingo. Those are just dumb euphemisms. This is one of the reasons why. But he's afraid of them. Of course, of course. I get it. I get it. Again, I hate this racialization stuff, but it's true. They forced the racialization card.

For the record, I don't look at people in terms of skin color, but when they start categorizing me and the young men that show up to my events as toxic because they breathe, you force the race card. But the power of young white men in this country, if they were motivated and purposeful, yeah, young white men helped us win a world war and get to the moon and split the atom. You better give them weed and fentanyl

and benzodiazepines and draft kings and porn just to kind of disable them so they don't rise up and eat you. That's what I would do. I'm just saying, like if I were in charge of society, I'd be like, holy shit, I'm afraid of these guys. So you're so right. And I try to, so I listen to your show all the time, Tucker. Sorry.

When you say stuff like that, I try to challenge it. I'm like, is it really a centralized, I'm like. No, it's a conspiracy of instinct. But then I'm like, I got nothing. Yeah, a little bit like. But it's like, you know, if you were trying to make the most, by the way, if you look at just the genetics of it,

like I'm Scott's Irish, I'm like very disagreeable, boundary pushing, you know, like rebellious. I know my genetic type, and by the way, genetics matter. We should talk about genetics more. It's not racist to say that. So my genetics come from all the way, you know, from Scotland, from the Maxwell clan, you know, fought alongside William Wallace.

But if you took, if you want to like kind of calm down that kind of Appalachia fighting spirit, man, you would do what you're doing right now. It's a Protestant spirit. I mean, let's just get really honest about it. It's the people who founded the country were Protestants. I'm as pro Catholic as anyone could be. My best friends are Catholic. Calvinists too.

I'm not against Catholics at all. I love Catholics. However, this country was founded by Protestants because they think for themselves. And they're the legacy, you know, they're the heirs of Martin Luther who took on, you know, the ancient, the 1500 year old church by himself. Totally. You know, they are people who believe they communicate directly with God, that their conscience is more important than federal law. And they're really hard to deal with. And so you have to destroy them first. And they did. Well, they're not done yet. There's still a lot and that's-

Well, I know some, I am one. But by the way, even the young men that are currently lost, let's bring them back in. And that's what I'm saying. You can shed your addiction, you can give your life to Jesus, you can get your aim figured out, you can reorient your purpose.

Again, Larry Fink is getting to something deeper. There's actually gonna be a massive blue collar need for all this AI stuff or whatever. Well, just to import it. Well, that's the kicker. So that's where everyone, I refuse to accept the premise that we need a bunch of H1B workers and a bunch of foreigners. Meanwhile, the men of this country are withering away in a basement because they've been told they're toxic and terrible their entire life. And so anyway, I feel a moral obligation to fight for the young men that show up to my event. And you could tell they're battered down.

I mean, they've just been so suppressed by either the HR department or the pronoun policing or the hyper feminization of their classroom. And they're like, I'm done. I'm not doing this. I'm gonna go play video games. I'm gonna check out. And is that the right move?

No, they should not do that. They should do what you and I do and get your life together, don't be a victim. But they do it because you beat down a group of people so much over so long period of time. They're going to exit. They're gonna cash out. We've just been trained to blame them though.

It's so wild. In all of our cinema too. And I find it also at speed now. I don't think a conversation has pissed me off as much as this one that I can remember. I hope I'm not pissing you off. What you're saying is true and that's why it's upsetting me. But I'll even say that about black people. I mean, I didn't grow up in a black neighborhood. I have a few black friends, a couple of good black friends, but I'm not like the voice of black America. So it was easier for me to like blame, 100% blame black people for all the huge problems,

like the overwhelming problems of black America. But now I'm like, you know, and that's something said fair. I'm for blaming the victim sometimes, but I'm also for acknowledging that there are other forces and like economic forces really do matter as noted before. And I just think it's so interesting in the people I know and grew up around with politically like they will never mention

how this happened in the first place. They'll never blame the company. I don't know how we got to this place we have to defend the company. I've worked for companies, they're horrible. They're anti-Christian. They're anti-human. They're greedy. And, you know, they provide, they paid my kids tuition all those years. I'm grateful and all that, but they're morally neutral at best, at best. So why are we defending them? I don't get that. Well, and at the very least, again, because we, you know, wealth is important.

We don't want to be a third world country, right? No, I'm for wealth. No, of course, we, because we, you know, wealth is important. We don't want to be a third world country, right? No, I'm for wealth. No, of course we want, we don't want to be poor. That's the, that should be like the operative. Don't be poor. Yeah. But at the very least we shouldn't have a gut instinct to defend them. Like we, we defend companies as if we're defending our children.

No, they did nothing wrong. That's so true. Harry did nothing wrong or, you know, it's as if like, you don't even know any of the facts and immediately you're on Exxon Mobil's side. I never even defended my own kids that way. immediately you're on ExxonMobil's side. I never even defend my own kids that way. Immediately you're on NVIDIA's side. I totally agree.

It's like, at least let's have a presentation of what's happened here. How did that... You're so much younger than I am, but you seem to have paid closer attention than I have or been onto this more than I am. How did that happen? I think it's a philosophical inheritance from the Rockefeller Romney takeover of the Republican Party many years ago, well before I was born. That's my best guess, is that there was this anti-Soviet,

anti-communist, anti-Marxist belief that was kind of the connective tissue of what was Reagan's rise in the eighties. And therefore, again, we exist on these ridiculous binaries at times, which is fine. Some things are binary, like sex is binary, male, female. Other things are not, which is there's a lot of steps in between like anarcho-capitalism and like oligarchy-run capitalism, which is what we have right now.

We have oligarchy-run capitalism and Marxism. There's a lot of steps on the continuum from oligarchy-run capitalism to that. And so, but also we, if you look at the tax code, if you look at the whole configuration of the current system, which again can credit the president Trump for finally putting a working class tax cut, no tax on tips and no tax and overtime, finally workers get something. But the whole configuration of the tax code is really rigged towards the big incumbent actors and the top 1% or the Pareto principle. I know I sound like a left-wing Elizabeth Warren person. Who cares? I don't care. Des described the problem, it needs a remedy.

But here, again, let me just kind of complete. The problem should not be, how are we gonna get the 1% to flourish? We shouldn't penalize them. But the question should be, how do we get the bottom 50% to have a little bit better life and their kids to have a much better life

and their grandkids to have an even better life than that. That's the American project is intergenerational wealth building is that you're going to sacrifice a little bit your kids will be better off and this is the kicker. Why is it that these students are showing up in massive numbers to my events? Why do they vote for Trump? This is a fact. It is the first time since George Washington that this generation has it worse off than their parents at the same age. It has not happened, not even during the Great Depression. It's about the same.

This generation is significantly worse off. And the problem, this is what no one mentions. We're not poorer. So you look at all these problems, you would think like if you're from Mars, you're like looking at all these numbers, you would think that the country's gone through like an economic tailspin the last 15 years. Okay, your young people can't afford homes and they're putting groceries on credit and they're killing themselves,

they're socially isolated and they're addicted to benzodiazepines and Zoloft. It's obvious you guys went through like a terrible economic catastrophe. You lost the war, yeah. No, the stock market's at record highs. Our companies are more valuable than ever. So wait, we've solved the tough stuff. We know how to create wealth, but we don't know how to create it

for the generation that needs it most. If you look at the economic conditions, you would think the other conditions surrounding it are like abject poverty. These are the problems that like third world nations have. Our young people can't afford stuff and they have to finance their basic necessities. And yet we're the wealthiest nation in the history of the world on the planet.

We have a $37 trillion GDP. We have the greatest companies and we've all the stuff to brag about. And yet all of our problems would beg the question. And it's like this inherent contradiction. We're super wealthy on one side, like a powerhouse juggernaut. And we are like an economic nightmare on the other side. How did that happen? Answer, the wealth went to older people

at the expense of the next generation. That's for sure. Every single economic growth decision of the last 30 years has been made. I am going to benefit, my baby boomer generation is going to benefit and I don't care if it hurts young people. And I'm not anti-boomer. I get negative hate mail all the time because the boomers are super protective of their generation as if I'm

like attacking Presbyterians or something. They're repulsive. They've always been repulsive. And I grew up in a world, I was born in 1969, the baby boom ended in 1965. So it was 65 or 64, whatever. It was just the post-war generation ended mid-60s. I'm not a boomer, thank heaven. My father was not a boomer, he was born in 1941. Totally different attitudes, right? He was born before the Second World War, our entry into it.

I was educated by them. They were my teachers and they were the worst, the dumbest, most narcissistic, the shallowest. Every sentence had like nine cliches in it. They were all at Woodstock. They remembered when Kennedy was shot. It was the day the music died. Everything they said was like the Don McLean tune.

It didn't make sense. It was just a series of evocative cliches strung together to create a feeling. They were idiots, but above all, they were about themselves. I hated them then, I hate them now. In fourth grade, I remember saying to a buddy of mine, I hate these people. Our math teacher just told us, I was at Woodstock. I was like, how many fucking people were at Woodstock? Like everyone in America was at Woodstock? I thought it was 300,000 people. They made us think it was, they're the worst. They're the ones who lectured us about the civil rights movement for 40 years

as the actual supposed beneficiaries of the civil rights movement, black people, declined. They didn't care. They were only about feeling good about themselves. The only good thing they produced was like the music of 1972. Other than that, horrible people. Horrible. Sorry. Well, and so, yes.

I'm sorry. I grew up with them. That's okay. Everyone can email Tucker your hate mail when it comes to the boomer hate. Oh, they're disgusting. And by the way, if you are a baby boomer, take some responsibility for what you participated in. That is the kicker. That's what I will say. You guys have had it great. You've had the greatest run. You've had what Eric Weinstein would call the ego, the embedded growth obligation, right?

Ego, meaning things just keep getting better. The market goes up, your house gets more valuable, and you guys are trying to squeeze the last of a lemon, and you are leaving a crummy, unrecognizable serfdom in your wake. Of course they are. And that is, it's bad for you. It's bad for your legacy.

It's bad for your nation. They're the ones who went right from protesting the Vietnam War to like making all this money on Wall Street. Remember Jerry Rubin was a yippie. I mean, this is before you were around, but like... John Kerry went from, you know, the whole thing. It was all live action role playing rebellion. It's LARPing is what it was.

I would just exclude anyone born between 1946 and 1964 from ever holding any office. And I know a lot of them, I'm sure they're nice people or whatever. But you're generating, oh, I forgot. The whole generation is just rotten. But let's extrapolate one part of it, which is that it's definitely, that generation has not had a regard for leaving an economic. They don't care about anyone but themselves.

That's the whole point. So if you employ that belief into fiscal policy and monetary policy, this is what you get, an intergenerational war. Yeah, their grandchildren, who they don't care about. Yes, and so what I'm trying- Is there on John's Island? Or wherever they'm trying... Because they're on John's Island. Or wherever they are, right?

They're on John's Island, but whatever. Well, yeah, and amongst other places. No, I like John's Island. I'm just saying they're in retirement and they're kind of psyched with what they have. And their stocks keep on going up. Yeah, and their grandson Dylan is like totally zoned out on prescription drugs and they don't really care. Right.

And, but, or if they are to impart some wisdom, it's, you know, when I was your age, we worked two jobs and I was able to put myself through college and we worked really hard. And I'm telling you, this is, there are there lazy people in Gen Z, of course, but honestly, the majority of young people I come in contact with, they're working their tail off. This is not a stereotypical lazy generation. I'm sorry. Like they're no lazier than some of the people I've seen in prior generations. I will die on that Hill. I'll defend this generation. I mean, but young girls, I've got a lot of them,

like they're always buzzing around doing something. They're just self-directed. But young men, I think that's why everyone likes to hire women, because they're self-directed, but young men, I think, that's why everyone likes to hire women, because they're self-directed. You give them a task, they'll do the task. They're micro. 100%. Women are the best micro. Women are the best micro.

And look what the scriptures tell us. And this is a very interesting thing. What did God say? He said, it's not good for man to be alone. Exactly. But he wasn't alone. He had God. What he was saying is that it's not good for man to be without a woman.

Of course. So it's not enough for man just to have God. I mean, some people don't like this teaching, but it's true. Adam had God, he had a relationship with God. Man, if you look at almost every third world country where men don't feel that they are able to have economic prosperity or any romantic future, you get either revolution, gang violence, or complete disconnect.

Or suicide. Or suicide. Or suicide, which is what we have, right? So it's the most suicidal generation in history. Now I don't want to paint like a totally negative picture because there is one really good trend and it's not because of baby boomers and it's not because of our leaders. It's that-

I guess that. Well, no, it's men, young men are going back to church. That is legit. That's happening because honestly, it's the only thing that they can find. It's a life raft in this just tsunami of chaos and disorder. So I get asked all the time, well, why are they going to the Catholic church? Why are they going to Orthodox church more than the evangelical church? And I'm evangelical. I'll say, well, first of all, they want something that has lasted. They want something that is ancient and that is beautiful. Something that has stood

the test of time. Something that's not going to change. Some that's all of a sudden not going to all of a sudden just flip around and have some sort of, you know, transgender story hour. They are. So that's a really positive trend in the midst of all this. So that's my, my great hope is the spiritual hope that the young men that are lost and if any young man is listening to this right now, like stop, stop watching porn, stop, you know, smoking weed, stop drinking endlessly, find yourself back to church.

That will reorient your life and do what the church tells you to do. Right. Find a woman, marry her, provide, have more kids than you can afford. That's my advice for young men. Yes. Don't play the victim. Even though you legitimately can play the victim card on everything we've said, I agree.

The mindset of a victim is parasitic to your soul. I completely agree. I completely agree. I completely agree. And you shouldn't whine. You shouldn't whine. Whining is bad. But that's our job. Just to be clear, so people say,

but Charlie, you talk about this a lot from a whining standpoint. No, what I'm doing is I'm communicating to a very specific audience of people in charge that are ignoring this, and they are ignoring what's coming next. And that's the whole context of this conversation. So I agree with you. I mean, I really hope that people are listening to you, people in charge. Thank you. I mean,

the president does to his great credit. It seems obvious that everything you've said is true. And I just want to say for the ninth time, I really hope members of Congress will listen to what you're saying I think it's the most important thing right now because We are in the last stages of what we had and we're moving towards something new This isn't working and it's not working for the people it has to work for which is the next generation they're the specifically the ones being hurt. And so they're going to be big, big, big changes and people will be punished for what we're going through right now. There's no question about it, either from the right or from the left. And my concern is not preventing them

from being punished. It's making sure the right people are punished. It always, it feels to me like the greatest injustice is when we've solved the crime, but we executed the wrong guy. Right. And I just want to make certain that the predators are punished, the people taking advantage of desperate young people, the people who are, you know, getting rich from payday loans and from, you know, buy now pay later for your pizza schemes, like those people should be crushed and not, you know, hardworking people. How do you, how do you make sure that punishment is allocated justly?

Yeah, well first, this is why the right needs to administer it because we would pursue justice where the left would probably pursue revenge. Exactly. And revenge is bad. So good. So, but first, secondly, I would, I hope you're right. I hope that the people that are doing bad here, which is plenty, will be held accountable. There's no guarantee. No one went to jail after 2008. And I think that was a stain on our nation.

I mean, I remember my family having to metaphorically and literally downsize after the 2008 financial crisis. I mean, that was a real turning point, if you will. I just sell my house. Yeah. And we didn't praise God, but I remember like we didn't go out to eat for like six months. Like it was like a real trimming. And no one. And you you remember that. Did you connect?

I was a freshman in high school. And so you connected what was happening to your family, to larger economic. Yes. And a lot of millennials, which I'm a millennial. I'm the younger end millennial. I'm almost Gen Z has a very similar stories as to mine, where they saw their parents have to downsize, trim vacations, cancel luxury items because of macroeconomic events. And I think it's still to this day a stand in our nation that no one went to jail for what happened in 2008. None of the bankers, none of the people were held accountable. And there's a lot that went into that. Obviously,

the federal government was heavily involved, but we did the worst possible thing, which is we actually created and we codified the bad behavior by making the incumbent Wall Street banks even more powerful through Dodd-Frank. So it's harder for small and community banks to compete. And then we flooded the zone with cheap money. We went to basically zero interest rates, which then depreciated the dollar,

which only hurt the next generation even more. So look, I would have liked to have seen, it's too late now, the statute of limitations is well passed, like perp walks for people that helped wreck the economy back in 2008 and 2009, because there was plenty of material there. So there's no guarantee that justice is coming, but I think this is different.

I think this is far different because remember what I said early on, in 2008, the average first time home buyer was 30 years old. Now it's 38. In 2008, you could have bought Apple stock for six bucks, eight bucks. Now it's like $180, $200 a share or something. I mean, asset prices have ballooned so dramatically

and young people are so priced out of the entry point, let alone the completion point of the American dream, that I think you're right, that there will either be, this could be two way, this is kind of a, this will be a sloppy way to say it, but it can either be a Stormy the Bastille or Nuremberg. And Nuremberg is like orderly, and at least there's some sort of like, you know,

justice component. With a Soviet judge in charge. Well, sure, I mean, I'm sorry, I couldn't. it's not a perfect example, but- The guy who did the Stalin show trials, you put him in charge. Yeah, it's not perfect, but at least there is some, at least there was a pageantry to it

that we're trying to pursue justice. I don't want revolution. My whole temperament is anti-revolution. And so- No, that's such a smart point. Any legal proceeding is flawed. I don't think you should put a Soviet judge in charge, but I think any judge is just a man or person and you're not going

to get absolute justice in this life. That is absolutely right. But it needs to be, I think that's the key point, needs to be orderly. Yes. And sensible and explain to the public there's a reason for this. So another one is I mean again one that we haven't even touched on is are we ever I think Trump is actually doing a great job of this holding these colleges accountable but are someone gonna finally have to be on the hook for the amount of student loan debt this generation has?

Can we seize and raid the endowments? I mean these colleges are hedge funds with schools attached. Exactly. They're growing their endowments by hundreds percent and their enrollment by like three to 4%. So their endowment is exploding and their enrollments are barely exploding. Not to mention all the other problems embedded there. It's the medieval church, it needs reform. Yeah, and so again,

I'm not here presenting all the solutions. Smarter people than me can kind of come through with a buffet line of solutions. My biggest contention is, why is no one even admitting this is a problem? And that's what's so bizarre. And what is that? So we began on that question. I don't know the answer. What's your guess? Again, I'm not doing one of those things where I like I ask the question rhetorically. I have guesses, the first of which is that it's so bad, they're just ignoring it. And I really

think that's part of it, which is that Congress is so filled with septuagenarians and octogenarians that it's so distant from their purview. They're way too concerned to send more money to Ukraine or whatever their primary priority is that kind of representing the next generation like, oh, those kids will kind of sort their way out. We had it tough too, which they didn't compare to what this generation has to go through. But secondly, I also think that the left will eventually wake up to this. I'm telling you. They're all a mess right now. They don't know which way they're going. But the Mamdani thing

is a little bit of a trial balloon. They're like, wow, that's interesting. It's getting younger people interested and involved. And just remember, like Bernie Sanders won the Democrat primary in 2016. And he won it in 2020. If it wasn't for the COVID lockdown, he the base of the Democrat Party has been yelling about economic anxiety for 10 years before it was even nearly as bad as it is today. You're right. And so what we as conservatives need to be really concerned about a cautionary tale is a Democrat

candidate or politician that says everything I've just said, that runs on basically resentment and bitter driven politics. You own nothing because of these people. Let's go take it. And that's a little bit more sane on the trans stuff, the crime stuff and the border stuff. That's exactly right. And that's why I don't think Gavin Newsom has a real shot because he's so transparently a tool of the ruling class.

Totally. AOC obviously wants to run. She's dumb. That makes her a better puppet for a kind of fake economic populism. I mean, she's actually controlled by the banks and the neocons. But I don't know, she's, if you had one, a candidate on the left who was even sort of genuine, it was kind of like a Tim Walz, who without the creepy personal life, who wasn't sending off kid toucher vibes like he is, woo. I'm not accusing him of kid touching, I'm just saying he sends off those vibes like there's an aura there that wouldn't have dinner with him But if you had a slightly more normal person who was an economic populist, oh my gosh That person would be Emperor well, I don't know about Emperor and I don't even know if like I don't know if they'll

Again, they're so off course on the trans stuff the border. No, I agree. I totally agree and they're so married to those three things but just all those things back, something is going to come. And I wonder if they're married to those things because, because I have always sort of wondered like, what is that? There's a lot at stake here. This is running the world. Okay. So you don't just like decide trans rights are central to your platform by accident. There's smart people thinking about this. And I've always wondered, was that a way to tame?

Economic populism is the thing that the donors on both sides fear the most by far. They need a little bit of it in order to stop the revolution from coming, as you have said. You need a Teddy Roosevelt, actually. Everybody needs it. They're too greedy and stupid to realize that. They're short-sighted.

Exactly. So, but I always have wondered, like, what was the trans thing? Why, if I'm running the democratic party, I'm a huge joiner of the party, I don't want, I may, you know, like the trans thing or whatever, but I don't want to put that the center of my platform, cause that's going to turn off all the normal people, like I'm going to lose with that.

It's too bonkers. Maybe that was inserted into the dialogue on the left to really kind of stop the Sanders insurrection forever. Yeah, I mean, that's interesting. Am I being too... No, I mean, I always... Because Sanders is what they feared most. Sanders would have given any candidate, including Trump, more of a run for his money in 2016. I think Trump would have beat Sanders, but like Sanders would have campaigned in Michigan.

Oh, big time. Sanders would have campaigned in Wisconsin. Yeah. And there's a lot of crossover of Bernie Sanders-Trump. Oh, yes. Like that exists, right? I mean, Sanders is a fraud or whatever you think of Bernie Sanders. Of course he is, yes.

A total fraud. However, a sincere Sanders, I think would be unstoppable. Yeah, so the, I'm less interested in the biography or the person of where the Democrat party is going. I agree. I'm much more interested in the movement that obviously is coming next. It's just so, it is manifesting, it's bubbling up. And so we on the right, we should exist to de-radicalize,

to create normalcy and order and a regular America, the good America that you and I miss. And so as far as the trans stuff, look, there's a lot of theories on this. Number one, I think that there's an element of the Democrat party that's into really creepy weird sex stuff that is- And religious stuff. Dark. There is a religious element to the trans thing. which is I take dominion over my body.

Exactly, I'm God. Where if you think about the Christian element, which is that we surrender our body to the Almighty, our body is a temple, right? God made us in His image, where the trans thing is, no, no, no, I make myself in my image. It's diametrically against every one of the teachings of Christ and of those scriptures. It's against the distinctions between what is holy and profane and what is good and evil, child and adult are blurred in the trans thing, male and female. So I think that there's like

an irresistible temptation amongst the kind of dark base of the Democrat party which exists, that they just had to just like hold on to. Because again, it's the snake eating itself, progress nose, nose limits, right? So it goes from, you know, homosexual marriage to eventually, you know, gay adoption to then finally, you know, to transgenderism. But I think you're getting onto something important from a corporate media standpoint.

Do I think that Pride Month is emphasized more for a reason? Almost certainly. Because I think it's a smoke screen more for a reason, almost certainly, because I think it's a smokescreen grenade to make us kind of be unsure of where we're going. So no one actually talks about economic and wealth inequality. We don't have get out of debt month, I notice. No, if you want to be even more provocative, one of the 613 laws of Judaism and one of the more beautiful teachings is called the year of Jubilee,

which is every 50 years is debt abolition and basically the rectifying of your financial situation for the nation of Israel. It was in law every 50 years. Because the religion recognized, I think as all religions do, that debt is slavery. Well, it says that in Proverbs 7 22, where it says basically, like, if you borrow money, you are a slave to the lender. Of course. It repeated all throughout the Torah, all throughout the Old and New Testament. And so now here we are in a modern context. Again, a little bit of debt is justifiable, mortgage maybe, but when you...

Another one that we even touched on that is crushing people, Democrats are starting to talk about this more, is medical debt. Oh, it is crushing people. They go to the ER for just a broken leg and they have a $7,000 bill and they are just murdered by those bills for the rest of their life. And so you have medical debt, you have credit card debt, you have personal debt, you have student loan debt. There's something kind of sad about the emphasis on healthcare too. I'm all for healing. I've been to the, you know, appendicitis, back surgery. I mean, I've been saved by surgeons

and I'm always, I am grateful. However, if like the most important economic sector in a lot of parts of your country is healthcare, what is that exactly? Shouldn't you be focused on like producing life? 100%. And not just like say, and I say this as a middle-aged person who's past the age of producing life, but I think like there's something, it lacks energy.

It's too inward. Like, oh, what about my healthcare? Oh, shut up. Oh, shut up. It's also inherently bureaucratic. No, but it's also like, shouldn't you be, I don't know. I just, I'll tell you how I feel about my life. It's like getting older, you know,

probably gonna get physically decrepit at some time in the foreseeable future. That's inevitable. That's nature. That's like, I have that in common with every person who's ever lived, I will die. And if you can't accept that, if you're a baby boomer and you think the point of living is to go on vacation, which they do because they're selfish and stupid, I don't know.

That's like you're missing life. Actually, the point of life is to produce new life and then help it thrive. There's an energy there. Teddy Roosevelt died, I think he was younger than I am now when he died. Does anyone think Teddy Roosevelt didn't live a life? The very full life. He lived a life. And I don't think Teddy Roosevelt in his final moments is like, oh damn, I've been cheated.

You know, if only I could get to Barbados. You know what I mean? Yes. Like there's something sad about everything is about maintaining an increasingly declining quality of life. Healthcare, healthcare, healthcare, what about building something? Do you know what I mean? Am I?

I'm not being very articulate. I just hate it. It's sad. And it's all, if you look at, yes, the prior generations had a different moral view, which was far less about getting another 15 years on your life expectancy. It was about, how are my kids doing? So if you just look at it from peer economics, again, I'm not a eugenics guy. Do I have a mission? Am I making something? Exactly. And what are you leaving? And right now, and again, I'm not here to like make people feel bad if you're over the age of 70,

you're leaving a crappy country for your kids. Trump is fixing it. He's working his tail off, but there's structural stuff that he's going to have to fight like hell. So stop talking about your illnesses. I don't like that. Stop that. My father died at 84, like a million illnesses.

That is definitely. I never knew what they were because he never mentioned them. By the way, that's very waspy. Not to talk about. Yeah, he was. No, not to talk about your health stuff. But like 70 plus a tick is like all your health stuff

is like the only dinner conversation, right? Are you joking? I remember thinking, my father always say when he got old, these old people, all they talk about is their health. It's so boorish and self-involved and boring. But it's also, if you think about it, it's not very Christian. No. Because we're just here temporarily in the Christian view.

There's an afterlife for us. There's the next life. Our bodies will actually resurrect, Christ our Lord will come back and reign over this earth in the thousand year millennia. So we shouldn't be overly fixated. But until that happens, they're rotting. We're all rotting. By the way, it's like- So just like deal with it, accept it. Yes, exactly. Like you have an expiration date. Yes.

And God is in charge of that. So what do you do with that? And so if you look at the biblical figures, they weren't like overly interested in like, mastering the back nine, at the Naples country club. It was, God wants us in four words, love God, love people. And we've done a very poor job of that in the West. I agree. I agree.

Wow, Charlie, you've really, really spun me up. So how do you get this message since, so we've had a conversation for an hour and a half kind of on a, on a, you know, on the, what I think and you clearly think is the single biggest and least addressed issue going forward, which is how are we serving the next generation? But you also spend an awful lot of time like in actual American politics and the mechanics of it. How do we get people elected? How do we get people out to vote, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Can you just be a little more precise? You know every lawmaker, certainly Republican lawmaker. Why isn't, like what is so hard about what you just said for them to understand? Well, a lot of them only represent that they only represent their voters. Just as kind of a, as an act, it's not an actual thing that they do. I think of Lindsey Graham and look, Lindsey Graham, I'm sure if we had him here, he'd tell hilarious jokes.

The most charming member of the Senate. I'm great. I'm sure. No, he is smart. He's charming. But great guy. But does he represent like the economic anxieties of a 24-year-old welder in Columbia, South Carolina? I mean, of course not. And but part of the problem is, and we're trying to fix

this at Turning Point Action, is actually the process of how difficult and how expensive it is to get good people elected in office. We haven't figured it out, but we're working on it. So we're engaging in Republican primaries and across the country. So Lindsey Graham is primary. I think Lindsey Graham is up soon. I say this is someone who has enormous affection for Lindsey Graham personally because he's enormously likable. But he can't get, if he gets reelected to the Senate, then it's all fake. Obviously, he has zero interest in America. He only cares about hunky Ukrainian soldiers or whatever his trip is with them.

He needs to lose just in order for the system to stay viable and real. How hard would it be? I'm going to do whatever I can to help him lose because he does need to spend time in retirement. How hard is that? It's going to be very difficult. Why? Well, for a couple of reasons.

He's going to have a ton of money. probably have tens of millions of dollars to spend. Really? Oh yeah. I mean, Senate leadership will most likely pour a lot of money behind Lindsey Graham. His numbers are underwater, but also it's going to be, he'll try to make a mess of things. There'll be other candidates kind of thrown into the mix to try to split the vote. Remember, it's a plurality, not a majority. I don't think they have a runoff system in the South Carolina primary. I don't want to speak out of turn there. But senators are really,

really hard to come by that are decent. Mike Lee is a great example of a decent person in the US Senate. He is a great person. There's not many of them that are actually decent and that... Eric Schmidt's a good man. I agree with you. Eric is a really good dude. I agree. Just like as a person. He's a Cardinals fan. But besides that, he's a great person. But no, look, as far as how hard it is, this is why what we are doing, I think is very exciting at turning point, but also simultaneously a threat to the Republican establishment is that we're big. We're not going anywhere,

God willing. We're loud. We're young. We're energetic. We're principled and we're kind of new right. Yep. Because we're not part of this whole neocon, you know, invade the world, invite the world, and we got to talk immigration too, because that's a whole component of this, because amnesty is going to try to be pushed by some people soon. But we're a different flavor. We represent a generation primarily that is mad, that is angry, but we want to channel that frustration into a prudent way, because again, we don't want a revolution. So we're a threat to the established Republican order and we kind of delight in that

in more ways than one. So look, we're going to be involved. The other one that we're really involved in is Kentucky for Mitch McConnell's empty Senate seat there, Nate Morris, who's phenomenal. He's actually running on immigration moratorium up against kind of two of McConnell's lackeys there in the open Kentucky Senate race. And here's the thing, if we or anybody were able to take out Lindsey Graham, that will send a signal to the rest of the conference. That will be such a definitive signal. And so, look, we're going to involve ourselves in many races.

We'll see if we do Lindsey Graham. We most likely will. We had Andre Bauer at our event. We're also going to be really involved in stuff in Arizona because we got to kind of get some things sorted out there. But more importantly is this, is that there, and this is the other structural problem. What we at Turning Point Action, specifically our political arm seek to do

is try to make Republican voters back into alignment with their elected leaders. Because there's a misalignment that's happening. And Trump was the one that exposed this alignment for the record. He's like, wow, you guys are totally not in alignment on your worldview. And I think Lindsey Graham is a perfect manifestation of that.

That's it. It's not personal. It's not at all. I'm so mean to Lindsey Graham, but it's not personal. It's just that the system is fake if Lindsey Graham keeps getting elected in one of the most conservative states. That's all. And the system can't be fake or else you have a revolution and I don't want a revolution So you did this you're very close to President Trump

I think personally and politically You did this amazing thing the other day where you tweeted out Amnesty is coming people are pushing amnesty You don't have to answer if you don't want, but my sense is that the president was part of your intended audience. You just wanted people to know what was going on and bless you for doing that. But I wasn't exactly sure what you were talking about. Who is pushing amnesty and what form could have come in and how imminent is this threat?

Yeah, and well, firstly, the president said no amnesty, which is great to hear and I'm glad he's saying that. He should keep on saying it because he ran on that. And so I was not surprised when he said it, but he needs to say it. But look at Maria Elvira Elisar, I think that's her name, right? She came out the other day and she is pushing an amnesty bill through Congress. I have a text from a US Senator that you and I both respect. And he said, look, there's whispers that are now becoming real conversations and chatter of amnesty. And think of how sick and dark this is. We passed one big beautiful bill, which is by far the greatest fortification of the southern border, the greatest deportation effort that we need. I mean, it's legit investment to get the deportations that we voted for. And that the ink is not even yet dry of President Trump's signature. And almost simultaneously, we're hearing about amnesty.

And so look, Maria Elvira Salazar, she's saying, well, if they've been here more than five years, it's not a pathway to citizenship, it's a pathway to dignity. Let me tell you exactly what would happen. How about get out? Well, of course, hasta la vista. How about that?

Right? And so, but let me be even more clear. We have no documentation of anybody that's in this country. Undocumented is not the proper term, but it's not totally incorrect. So all that someone would have to do, let's say an ICE agent knocks on the door of somebody and they have deportation order, you are going home.

All they'd have to say is cinco años, five years, and they could end all deportation in real time. So the person's been there for three years and they'd have to just say they've been there for five years, lie, go to some judge that would take them four years to get in front of the judge and they'd hit the five year threshold. It's effectively amnesty and they loop have to just say they've been there for five years, lie, go to some judge that would take them four years to get in front of the judge, and they'd hit the five-year threshold. It's effectively amnesty, and they loophole work around being pushed by Ms. Elvira Salazar. And I don't know what... She's a Democrat? She's a Republican. Which the whole thing doesn't make any sense. First of all, she's from a Cuban district, and why a Cuban district is so worried about like mass illegal immigration is very bizarre to me,

unless she has a bunch of constituents that are doing visa overstays, because it's not exactly like Southern border central there. I think she's just a leftist. I don't know what she is, but I'll just, it's very perplexing. Number two though,

we're winning Hispanics in record numbers because we're strong on the border, because we're strong on deportations. She's like, oh, if we don't save this, if we don't solve this problem, we're going to lose Hispanics for a generation. We're winning Hispanics because we're hard on immigration. We're winning.

Also, what about everybody else? Well, yeah, how about like, exactly. And then that goes to think the core essence of, what about the actual American people that have not been represented the last 50 years in our government? Your ancestors were here for the Civil War, okay? That was, you know, whatever, 160 years ago.

Seems like you should have a say in all this. My family came here in 1620, Alphonsus Kirk. We've been here for a while, 400 years. Yeah, so, I mean, it doesn't, I don't think you should get two votes or anything, but I also don't think that we should ignore you on purpose, which, and it's like, why do't you be quiet, Maria Salazar? Who are you anyway? Stop.

When she does this ridiculous thing, she says, you know, I'm, we're going to try to have this Salamic compromise of splitting the baby, which by the way, it's not even what happened in first Kings. It's a whole separate issue. We could talk. It's. So why would you want to cut a baby in half? You freak. She literally said that. I'm seeing, I don't know if you saw that clip. She's obviously dark. Yeah. But also the fascination of the ruling class

when it comes to amnesty is very, very sinister. And it's like abortion. They just can't give it up. It really is. And I've had amnesty pitched to me multiple times. In every one of the ruling class havens you can imagine, I never get amnesty pitched to me on either a college campus or like in Columbus, Ohio. When I go to a football game, no one's pitching me amnesty.

But they never want amnesty for, there's never amnesty for bank robbers or drug dealers or people convicted of hate crimes, I notice. It's only- Such a good point. For illegal aliens. Such a good point. And why is that? Because they don't like the people who live here and they want to change the population. That's why. It's about mass demographic replacement. Of course. Because if you can't win over the population or if you hate the population, which they do, then you need to replace that population. And again, this is the great replacement reality that is happening in real time. And so we finally

have this mandate and God bless Stephen Miller. He's fighting his heart out every single day to get this deportation effort underway. And the president ran on this and the president has committed this and the president is going to get this done. Unless these people in Congress try to get in his way, which is that we need to deport 20 million people. This all goes full circle, by the way, back to the young people conversation. It's just the 2010 strategy. We need to build 10 million new homes and make sure private equity cannot buy them. And we need to deport 20 million people. We do those two things,

we're gonna be a much better place. However, we voted for it. We have a president office that wants to do it, that is doing it. And yet there are several congressional actors that are trying to undermine him right now. What about the pressure you keep hearing about from different sectors? Hospitality, I think that's real. Ag, I don't know, is that real? I mean, who is

pushing this other than the corporate titans for sure? Yeah. I mean, so the ag one is interesting because we're told that we need to have mass immigration or else the crops will rot in the field, Which is interesting because I thought we're going through like a moment of mass automation right now. I kind of thought that. So what's the argument now for mass immigration if robotics is gonna take over everything? Well, Elon just sent a video out this morning

of a robot making popcorn. So if a robot can make popcorn, he can pick lettuce, I think. I would imagine. So maybe it's not about picking the crops. Maybe it's about the fact they wanna change the demographics of this country. But secondly, the hospitality one, maybe, I guess, sure. How about this? Hire Americans and pay them more. There's a 7% young male unemployment rate. Remember, I said

that earlier. Wait a second, 7% unemployment used to be called a crisis in this country. That was during the Great Recession. Remember, we got up to 8% to 9% unemployment used to be called a crisis in this country. That was during the great recession. Remember, we got up to 8% to 9% unemployment. So maybe we should go hire some of the young men that are on the sidelines of this economy and make this a nation again, not just an economic dumping ground for the third world. So you often hear people say, well, I would love to do that, but the native whites won't work hard. Okay.

I don't know. There's something about mass immigration that degrades the existing population. People get less impressive when their country's invaded. I don't know why that is. I've always noticed that though. The UK is a great example. It is a great example. The Brits themselves, it's like I go to the UK, I have family there, I go there all my life, I've gone there and you see, you know, I was kind of like the Brits, they're weird, but I sort of like them. Creepy kind of, but whatever. But they've gotten weirder and creepier over time. They've, as it's become more Pakistani, the native-born

Brits, the white Brits have become way less impressive. I'm not imagining this or do you know what I'm talking about? But also the morale goes down. It's almost like you're a conquered nation and you know it. London was 95% white in the 1920s. It is now 29% white. Now, again, I don't think whites are better

than other people, whatever, but it's just not London anymore. They're the indigenous population. Exactly, and I thought we're against mass replace, that's ethnic cleansing, isn't it? Well, it's literally ethnic cleansing. I mean, I thought, I mean, we're, you know, lecture all the time about ethnic cleansing. If it was happening in Tibet, which it has. Again, I'm not for that, wherever it is.

I agree, but if you replace Tibetans with Han Chinese, no one's like, they're all Tibetans. They're all Tibetans. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. It's a strategy designed to replace the Tibetans. Again, if something fails, when you change the people, it fails to be what it wants. Of course, but it also, it has a dispiriting effect on the people being replaced and they're not what they were all of a sudden. It's hard to measure, but it's so true. It's so noticeable. It's noticeable. You feel it, you see it. Again, this is what's so important about conservatism in the new era. A lot of what drives us will not always show up on a chart or a graph.

Because look, a lot of this, I talked earlier, is like numbers of home ownership, but something as simple as that is so true. Their morale is down. They believe goofy and weird stuff. They almost have this strange fetish in London that they like being conquered, that they're enjoying the slow motion rape of their country. Invade me harder, daddy.

No, seriously. Oh, I agree. It's like this weird sexual attitude. Yes, Islamist, come into my country. What? No. And it's just, I don't know what that is, but I will say this though. I will make a hypothesis though. It's the immigration cuck, I think we would say.

No, it is though, but a secular nation cucks out. For sure. 100%. And so what does that mean? When you don't believe in a divine power, I mean, they're super secular in the UK, then all of a sudden they need to have some sort of belief system. So they're like reason for being is that their master is some Mohammedan from Afghanistan. And again, I debated Oxford and Cambridge back in May. These are broken, conquered cities and towns. They're completely unrecognizable. London, especially, is just gone.

It's a husk of its former self, as you would say. It's a museum. So depressing. It's depressing. It brings down your soul. I agree. And when I go walk through Piccadilly Square and there's just more Muslims than native-born whites,

or there's something wrong about that, and that is a metamorphosis that, and you have to wonder like, did you vote for this? Did you want this? Did you want this? Did you invite it? And so- Something about the two, it's the way it happened. It's the scale of it.

And what's really, what's really a head trip, which I'd recommend to anyone, is going from London to Riyadh or London to Dubai or London to Doha. I've done all of that. And you're in London and you're like, man, we've got a huge problem with Muslims. Like they're bad.

And then you go to Doha or Riyadh or Abu Dhabi or Dubai, any of the Gulf. And you're like, man, I love Muslims because they're awesome. So how do you- I don't understand exactly what's going on. It has to do with, and let me just say, point of fact, I've never been,

where I am not currently anti-Islam, especially. It's not my religion. I disagree. I think it's wrong, but I'm not mad. And I'm not mad at Gulf Arabs. I think they're amazing. They're amazing. They couldn't be more tolerant, open-minded, kind, just great.

I mean, there are things I don't agree with, but in general, they're great. And I have even said, you know, because you can say whatever you want in their countries, cause as long as you're not attacking the leadership, they have free speech in a way that we don't, which is really wild. But I've said at dinner, like, what is that? Why am I so happy here in, you know, pick the Gulf capital versus London?

And what is the deal with the Muslims in London? Or Cologne or Berlin or whatever? Like, what is the difference? I've never gotten a straight answer, but I do think part of it is mass migration of any kind is a lot. It's a lot. And it has bad effects on everyone involved, the immigrants and the conquered. And also I think that there's just a lot of third world Muslims that have come.

Well, there's also that. I mean, Doha is a very industrial,-world Muslims that are well, there's also that I mean I mean Doha is a very in dust, you know, very well There's 300,000 citizens in first Abu Dhabi Dubai Riyadh or very first but the people are Rachi is not exactly good No, Karachi is pretty intense. Is it I would say crotch is pretty intense. Yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't put Pakistanis up with No, though. I've had amazing Meals with people in Peshawar, Pakistan who are like reading P.G. Woodhouse novels and are super smart

and have all these languages and stuff. I don't know, there's something about immigration, the mass migration that degrades everybody involved. I just noticed it. This is not an ideology that I have, it's just something I've picked up from traveling a lot. And you just become, so you have two options. I mean, and the UK has decided just to kind of just bend over and take it.

Oh yeah. Which is just, you can fight it and resist it. Well, they've been doing that for a long time. No, that's kind of their whole shtick. Oh, I know. Yeah, post-World War II. With a cane. Yeah, exactly.

It's just, that's their whole thing. But in America, we've actually, we're finally having a different attitude to mass immigration, which is we can now talk about it. We can question it. We can vote against it. The question is, can we remove it? And that, again, that's one of the biggest public policy challenges in front of us. Can we remove the 20, 30, 40 million people

that have come here illegally? And what President Trump is embarking on doing is one of the hardest, most difficult things that we could possibly comprehend. Do you think it has a shot? I think we can get to 10 million this term. And that would be huge. If you count self deportations, for sure.

Wow, are we on track to do that? We have a million self deportations already, guesstimated. And I can tell you anecdotally in Arizona, like a construction project happening right down the street from where we live, they said that whole crew of labor you know, kind of laborers self-deported, they hired Americans the next day, or at least people that were here legally. So there is anecdotal evidence of self-deportation occurring.

And the margin at least under Eisenhower when he did mass deportations is 10 people self-deported for every one forcible deportation. And so CNN just did a special of a guy and his family that's self-deporting from Pittsburgh, you know, adios. So look, I think the goal needs to be 10 million this term. 10 million would be a massive accomplishment. That would make the country a considerably and measurably better place. Is there any effort or even conversation about getting the refugee system under control? Oh, without a doubt. Yeah. I mean, I think that first of all, it's a scam. Why do we owe refugee status to anyone? No one's ever explained that.

I don't know if we, again, this is a really important point. Almost all of the excesses, mass migration refugee, is because the left has weaponized inherited Christian principles against us. So we as Christians, we have an open hardness towards refugees. It says what we should do that in the hardness towards refugees, says what we should do that in the scriptures, doesn't mean that we should do that blindly. So what the left does is they take good hearted Western Christian beliefs and they totally weaponize them for their kind of remake the body politic of American.

Here's what I find so unchristian about our refugee system, even before the left distorted it, or maybe they distorted it from the beginning, is Christian charity is the responsibility of the Christian. So all these Christian groups and Jewish groups and lots of different groups, but a lot of Christian groups, Catholic Charities, Lutheran Social Services, all these groups that use the gospel to justify it, bring in families or individuals and then offload the cost onto taxpayers. It's like, how does that work? How is it charity if I take your money and give it to somebody? Do I get credit in heaven for stealing

your money and giving it away? I don't think so. Yeah. And also it says in the book of Deuteronomy, one of the last things Moses says, it's this farewell address like Deuteronomy 28, I'll top my head. Be careful who you allow within your gates within the country because they will soon become your masters. Well, and boy is that not. Well, we're about to find out how true that is. Phenomenal truth from the scriptures as always. But look, yes, I know the Trump administration and President Trump, they're trying to strip refugee status

of the 500,000 Haitians. I mean, that is just grotesque. I would say. And so I think every single one of them has to be returned back to Haiti. By the way, it's like this great contradiction. Haiti is a wonderful place that everyone should go visit, the left tells us, but they don't want Haitians in their neighborhood. It's like, okay, well, which one is it exactly? Haiti is an amazing place. It's the best place ever. It's not a

shithole nation at all. It's incredible. Stephen Colbert actually goes on vacation there. But everybody in Haiti needs to get out immediately because it's so terrible and you have to pay for it. It's so wonderful that they have to be allowed to leave to your community, but not my community. I just hope that this last two hours that every member of Congress sees it, sees what you said.

I was trying to keep up with your analysis, which is the sharpest I've ever heard on that subject. What is the crisis among young people? I think you described it better than anyone. And I really hope people listen to what you're saying. Thank you. And I mean, we cover this on our show every day.

People can follow the podcast. And thank you, Tucker, for your leadership on this. Look, there's a lot of issues to cover, but this one is gonna supersede every single one. I think that's right, because it's gonna be President Mamdani. And he's not even a real socialist. He's just a, like, trans nonsense, lifestyle liberal bullshit, like all of them, you know.

He's a demon Marxist, right? Exactly, exactly. If he was like a wobbly, at least I'd be like, respect. But no. Anyway, thank you. Thank you, Tucker. Charlie Kirk. Thank you. Hit follow and tap the bell so you never miss an episode. We have real conversations, news, things that actually matter. Telling the truth always. You will not miss it if you follow us on Spotify

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