The Tucker Carlson Show - Chris Cella: Opioids, Robbing the Mafia, Burning Down the Entourage House, and How God Saved Him

Episode Date: May 2, 2025

Like so many other Americans, Chris Cella fell out of the middle class and became an opioid addict. Here’s how he came back. (00:00): Introduction (02:00) Cella’s Opioid Addiction (09:00): Gateway Drugs Are a Real Concern (24:57) Burning Down the Entourage House (39:25) What It’s Really Like in Rehab Paid partnerships with: Identity Guard: Get a 30-day free trial and over 60% off when you sign up a https://IdentityGuard.com/Tucker Tecovas: Get 10% off at tecovas.com/tucker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's a real privilege to be able to travel and to see different places, taking yourself out of comfortable positions and challenging yourself. No one builds a legacy by standing still. Start your journey at Remover.com. You pepper sprayed a member of the Mexican mafia and stole his heroin. I sprayed him in the face with pepper spray and put something to his throat. Don't move. Making me tense, man.

Just telling me this story. And he had girls in his halfway houses that he was giving heroin, giving crack and pimping them out and then sending them back to treatment where they would ultimately fail their drug test and have to go to detox. And guess who gets a kickback from the detox center? No way. It's a revolving door of suffering and just pain for the addict, but they're making money at every stop. This is disgusting. And then she pulls out a handgun. She's like, what the are you doing in my house? My kids are in there. And I'm like, oh my God, you have kids. If you have your kids sleeping in there, you're kind of a shitty mom. So you insult the lady

with the gun pointed at you. because, you got balls, I'll say that. Thanks for doing this, Chris. How long were you addicted to opioids? So I was addicted to opioids from the age of 15 to 23, kind of on and off, in and out of rehab for those eight years, but yeah. 15 to 23. Where'd you grow up?

So I grew up in, I was born in Dallas, grew up in South Orange County, moved there when I was five, kind of bounced around, but all in kind of relatively the same area. Southern California. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Southern California, Orange County. And my sister or my family, you know, addiction kind of just runs in my family. Like my... As it does many. Yeah.

Right. You know, I do believe it is. There is a genetic component to, you know, kind of the addictive personality. You know, absolutely. 100%. You think? How much alcoholism is there in Israel? How much alcoholism is there in Sweden?

You know, it's a big difference. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, you know, my, so, so growing up, my dad was, he was a general counsel at an oil company in Texas. So he was traveling a lot. And he was also a heavy drinker. He would, he is not the type of person who like needed to up and drink in the morning to function, but he would go on benders for days, weeks at a time. And then my mom, she was a long-distance runner, and she had a diving accident that left her basically – she was a victim of Big Pharma's push in the early to mid-90s for Oxycontin and then eventually fentanyl. And this little pathetic pill-pushing quack is giving her just massive amounts of Oxycontin. And she hated the way it felt. And she's like, I don't like this. It's making me comatose. And the doctor's like, well, you need to keep taking it and so she she decided to flush them down the toilet once and uh and she went into excruciating withdrawal and uh you know

i'll touch more on withdrawal later but uh it's yeah she so she were your parents married yes yes yes they were married your dad's a general counsel of a big company your mom's a distance runner so these are like competent people who got their act together. These are not like, this is not the junkie profile. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. Like my father, he was, he graduated college at 19 and he went to Columbia law school. I mean, you know, so. Oh, wow. Okay. I'm sorry. Cause I think that, I think it's important to set this in a socioeconomic frame. Yeah. Cause there's, yeah, because addiction does not, you know, it doesn't matter whether you're rich, poor, black, white, whatever. You know, it's indiscriminatory. Yeah, that's true.

So, yeah, my... So this doctor keeps pushing opioids on your mom. Yes. By the way, to be a distance runner, I admire that, but it suggests like true self-discipline, a high level of awareness of your body. I mean, who's a distance runner? You know, only people who are very, very into fitness and very, very kind of like batting down people. Right. Correct? Yeah.

Yeah. My mom was absolutely one of the most disciplined people that I've ever met. Well, you kind of have to be. Yeah. And I mean, a lot of long running to me is absolutely sounds like torture. Well, it's torture. It is torture. But it's highly impressive. Yeah. No, it is. Absolutely. And so,

you know, she had these multiple surgeries that only exacerbated the issue. A neck injury? Yeah, a neck injury that she got from, it wasn't related to her long distance running, but it was a diving incident. She hit her neck on the diving board. And so, yeah, this guy's, first she's pushing Oxycontin on her. And then he says, okay, well, let's try something different. It might be less, like, you know, less addictive possibly, you know, because fentanyl is brand new.

And, you know, might make you feel a little bit better to where you can function throughout the day. So, he puts her on fentanyl. And fentanyl is so powerful. I'm sorry to laugh. No, no, it's, I mean, it's, yeah, you have to laugh. Otherwise, you'll cry. Because it's like, fentanyl is the most, so powerful that it has to be administered in micrograms. Like the 25 micrograms, whereas most drugs are administered in milligrams. So that just shows you how potent fentanyl is. How many kids does your mom have? Three.

So she's got three kids. She's married to a general counsel of a company. She lives in Southern California. She's a distance runner. All of a sudden, she's on fentanyl. Yeah. company she lives in southern california she's a distance runner all of a sudden she's on fentanyl yeah oh no she well uh she was living in dallas when she became uh addicted to the fentanyl or addicted to the oxy at least um yeah uh and then when we moved to southern california we moved to southern california my dad started his own practice with his brother um they were both lawyers. So, and then, yeah, so my sister, and then my sister, she had a serious

issue with bulimia and anorexia from the age of 10 to 28. Like so serious that, you know, her potassium levels were so low that ambulances at our home were like a regular occurrence. And there was multiple times when they said, you know, your daughter might make it, might not make it to my father. And so witnessing all of this at a very young age, and again, I'm not trying – again, I just want to like preface. This is not an excuse for my actions. Like I own everything that I did and all the terrible chaos that I had, that I, you know, basically I didn't have the necessary things like structure and discipline that I think are so important for everyone, but especially for people with addictive personalities to have that, you know, that rigid kind of, I'm going to wake up, I'm going to make my bed, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. And so, like, my parents, I was never short. I knew my parents loved me. Like, my parents, they, I was never, you know, short on that. But they were so busy trying to yeah good man um yeah and you know she never went to aa or anything like that and so so again it's you know um addiction or you know treatment can be uh as simple as you know going to therapy it doesn't have to include you know rehab and all

these different things but um uh so yeah my so my sister your mom uh she so she um eventually switched over to suboxone from fentanyl and then she weaned herself off of that so now she's yeah totally and suboxone is a miracle drug i mean compared to like the alternative which is um methadone which is so so addictive it gets into your bone marrow i mean the withdrawals from that, I've heard, are much worse than your average opiate or even heroin. Just because it's more drawn out. And, yeah. What a nightmare. So, she got better.

Yes. And your dad got better. But you grew up in an environment where there was a lot of this going better. Yes. And your dad got better. But you grew up in an environment where there was a lot of this going on. Yeah. And so, yeah. And lacking that structure, it made me, you know, I think it led to a sense of low self-esteem and the constant need for the approval of others. Like, I look back now and I'm like, you know, why the fuck do I, did I care so much about what other people thought? And it's, I guess, you know, I can't,

you know, but after years of therapy, they've kind of pinpointed as to like, you know, you know, your quote unquote, inner child didn't get enough emotional nourishment, so to speak. And so yeah, you know, I was so constantly trying desperately to fit in. So, you know, when I got into middle school, high school, and, you know, I was, you know, an honor roll student, very, very, you know, I was very, you know, I have a high IQ, I was blessed with that. But once I got into like college, where you actually have to start kind of trying a little bit like algebra two and whatnot, I was like, was like – because I started hanging out with kids who were smoking weed, drinking and smoking cigarettes. So not that I necessarily wanted to smoke weed, drink and smoke cigarettes, but that's what they were doing.

So I wanted their approval. I wanted to fit in. I wanted to be a part of the cool crowd. And so I started drinking, smoking cigarettes and smoking weed. And so that went on for – I quit the wrestling team. I pretty much abandoned everything that was positive, all the positive things that I was doing for my life and just kind of became a stoner. And, you know, I know a lot of kids who were potheads in high school, you know, that I'm friends with that are more successful than I today. So I'm not, you know, trashing them at all. But I mean, then what happened was it progressed to

the, because I was in, you know, advanced placement classes. So I was in like algebra two as a sophomore where, you know, I was, it was mostly juniors and seniors in the class. And so I started hanging out with the juniors and seniors and they were doing, uh, it's called, uh, oxymorphone or Opana,

Opana. Um, they were, you know, snorting that, taking Xanax pills, stuff like that. And,

um, and my stoner buddies, where were they getting the pills? So, uh, they were getting them. There was pretty pretty much we had like one source and he was uh a guy that just uh lived in down the street in an apartment complex um it's always a guy in an apartment complex isn't it yeah for sure i've been to those apartment complexes and he he um his grandmother was getting prescription drug getting these prescription drugs and just had like a boatload of them. So, you know, he would sell them for 60 bucks a pop and, you know, we would

buy them. But eventually, you know, that it becomes too expensive. The pill habit becomes too expensive. And that's why so many people transition to heroin. But, you know, even my stoner friends were like, hey, you should like you should try to steer clear of those guys over there. And I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm going to take your heaping loads of moral condemnation stoner. But, but in reality, it's like, when the potheads are telling you that to stay away from these kids, you know, that's right. Like, yeah. And so, you know, of course, you know, my, again, that low self-esteem, that desire to fit in started using pills and opiates in particular. They took away that feeling of that, like that low self-worth. I felt I was confident. I, you know, I felt great at the beginning, in the beginning, in the very early stages of my addiction. So like the first, you know, two, three months. And I had a job. I was a telemarketer at a golf club selling, quote unquote, custom made clubs.

They're literally made in a warehouse underneath the call center by illegals. And it was either graphite or steel. And they might give you extra grips on the clubs. That's the extent of the quote-unquote customization yeah but comparable to the tailor-made r11 yeah okay yeah right so you're selling custom faux custom-made golf clubs from a call center yeah and and uh you know go in the car do a line of oponem and come back in and it's just like, oh, my gosh, you know, I have more confidence and I'm pushing harder on the sales and things like that. And my sales numbers are going up. So, I'm like, why would I stop when this is like I feel great about myself, I'm performing better at work. So, you know, I saw it as like, there's like, there's no downside until...

Totally fair question. And by the way, there have been a lot of, as you know, artists, jazz musicians, you know, who used opioids because they thought it increased their, you know, ability, it enhanced their performance. Yeah.

And I think, you know, to an extent it can, but that is short-lived. It I think, you know, to an extent it can, but that is short-lived. It is not, you know, it's temporary. Because especially with opiates, they, again, they literally erode your soul. And you're eventually going to run out of money. And you're going to have to get desperate. And so. So what happened in your case?

You started by doing a line in your car during work. Yeah. And it kind of just progressed. You know, I was like doing like, you know, one pill, 140 milligram pill every couple of days to two every couple of days to, you know, just going up and up. And the cost was getting too expensive. Why did you use more you developed a tolerance yeah yeah yeah you you you quickly develop a tolerance and uh yeah and you just need more and more to get to that because you're always chasing that first high there you know you're never going to get it again but that's what like you know the chasing the dragon um you're always trying to get to that level but you're never going to get there.

Right. No, I think it's, yeah. I mean, I think every childhood weed smoker remembers that first time when you just like burst into laughter hysterically with your buddies. And it's like the funnest, funniest thing that's ever happened in your life. And it's like, it is fun. I mean, that's truly fun. But that doesn't ever happen again. Yeah, no, it's and you're so fun. I mean, that's truly fun. But that doesn't ever happen again. Yeah, no.

And you're so desperate to try to get back there. And that kind of, you know, the whole like, you know, addiction makes you insane. It's like, you know, you're never really going to get back there, but you're still trying. And so... Addiction makes you insane. That is true. Yeah. I mean, you know, like the definition of insanity, trying things over and over and over again expecting the different result especially when you get into the point where

you're like you're trying to get sober um and like okay yeah this hasn't worked 15 times maybe it'll work the 16th why um and so but yeah that so i was yeah so it progressed very quickly so you're in like 10th grade at this point uh Yeah, 10th grade, yeah. And progressed within, I don't know, maybe like two, three months to buying heroin up in, you know, South Los Angeles. What was that like? Wild, dude. So, you know, basically what happened was we met this guy. I think he was at like the continuation school down the street from, uh, the, our high school and, um.

What's continuation school? It's like, um, basically if you get like booted out of, uh, you know, a regular high school, it's kind of like, it's kind of like a way to get a, get a diploma without having to get a GED. But like, it's like kind of like a, it's like a bootleg get a get a diploma without having to get a ged but like it's like kind of like a it's like a bootleg diploma nice um so some of the kids who've had a bumpy rotor in the continuation school yeah yeah for sure for sure yeah i mean i mean they even like they like even though there was like mostly kids under the age of 18 they had a little smoking section

at the school it It was hilarious. I grew up with that. Yeah. And, yeah, I mean, I'm still a nicotine fiend. I vape. But I quit smoking cigarettes. I was like, you know, I – and I was honestly – I was pretty impressed with myself that I was able to do that because that was almost – I don't want to say almost as hard, but very difficult in, you know, trying to get rid of that addiction, you know, compared to my opiate addiction.

But, you know, just- I quit drinking and drugs at 33 and I quit cigarette smoking at 45. So, that tells you. Right on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, yeah, it's hard. It's really a hard addiction to break and I'm still addicted to nicotine, you know. Yeah, me too.

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What's he like? Just some – just like slimy, just dirt bag. I mean, I don't – yeah. I mean, just some guy that we were only – the only reason we associated with him was because he had that connection. Yeah, not exactly. He's the type of guy who would steal your wallet and help you look for it. But again, that's what most junkies are. I became like that.

Was he using heroin too yeah yeah yeah yeah he was um he was a big user and he was actually ripped i found out he was ripping us off when i got a direct connection and he was basically saying it was double the price for the amount because you get like a you get a little package with 12 balloons in it and it was 45 dollars and he was saying it was 90 so he's able to like get to pocket one and give one and give one to us. So did you have to go with him to South LA? Yeah, we would drive him. He didn't have a car. So, you know, I would drive him in my 1998 Jeep and we'd all just pile in there. And this, the feds were watching like these, like they literally, there was an article in the OC register um

I think it came out while I was in rehab but uh basically just kind of giving an overview of the whole thing the number you call the guy's name was boss you call this phone number and and this guy goes all right how what do you want and you tell him how many packs you want and then he's like all right meet and it would be like one of three freeway exits right in that area and always like a fast food parking lot, something like that. What town? South Gate. Boy, that's just depressing, that area. So, yeah.

So, you're meeting at like In-N-Out Burger or Wendy's or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just, yeah. Some, yeah, we can just pull in real quick. And then they'd, you'd meet the, they would always send a runner and usually it was a different person. But I started, you know, so yeah, they'd meet you. They'd say, all right, you know, come into the car. You'd get into the passenger seat.

They reach into the air vent, pull it out, give you the dope, give them the money. You have to get into their car. Yeah. What were the guys like who were selling it? This is kind of one of the crazier things about this whole experience. So the runner that I had the most contact with, he was, you know, he's a cool guy, just this little Hispanic guy, you know, I mean, obviously a gangbanger who would, you know, shoot you as soon as they look at you, but he was very, you know, very nice to me. And, you know, he would

give me discounts occasionally. And he actually, finally, he was like, hey, you know what, you no longer have to call boss, you can just hear, I'll give you my personal line. And you can you can just call me and then, you know, have to save, save you the hassle of going through the whole, the whole process. I was like, oh, cool, man. Thanks. And so, you know, we developed a kind of, you know, friendship, I guess. And, uh, probably the wildest story that I have. So we, uh, so my friends from South Orange County, again, very affluent, you know,luent. I don't know if you've heard of Nellie Gale in South Orange County. It's like one of the ritziest neighborhoods in the country. It's got horse trails running through it. And the houses are like at a minimum $5 million.

So yeah, it's a very nice area, very affluent area. And that's where pretty much all my friends lived. And, uh, but, uh, this girl we knew, um,

her uncle was, uh, he owned the house. Have you seen the show Entourage? Have you heard of it? Yeah. Uh, yeah.

So, um, he owned the house that, at least like two seasons of the show were filmed in. And she's like, yeah, we can go up there for the weekend. I was like,

oh, awesome. And so it's funny. We drive all the way to Beverly Hills with like two and a half hour drive and up this private road to this beautiful mansion. The door's locked. And she kind of lied or misled us about having permission to go to the house. And so I'm like, are you fucking kidding? And anyways, excuse me.

So I ended up finding I saw like a door window, like on the side of the house. And so I maneuvered my way up there, pushed on the door and it just popped open. I was like waiting for an alarm to go off. Okay. So I walk in, open, man, I really need some heroin, but I don't want to drive down to Southgate. And so I called the guy and I was like, hey, man, we've got a huge mansion. There's only like seven of us. This is why you don't let your niece bust into your house with her junkie buddies. We'll just wait. And I was like, yeah, if you want to – I know you don't typically do deliveries, but if you could bring me an order, you know, you're welcome to stay and bring whomever you want. So he brings like two big Mexican dudes and like 10 big booty Latina beautiful chicks. Like, yeah. Yeah. And a candy dish with all these different pills, Valium, Xanax, you know, oxys, just all that.

And at least an eight ball of Coke, a giant bag of Coke. And that was those were just party favors. And he brought me my order, obviously. But and so we spent the night partying, you know, hanging out in the indoor pool, you know, doing lines off of, you know, girls' stomachs. And it was a wild, crazy time. I mean, it was like literally like the show Entourage, but like junkie version. It's just going on inside. Yeah. Did the uncle ever come back?

Well, so the next morning, and thank God. Were you in high school at this point? Yeah, I was 16, I think. It's so, like, because I was going back and trying to, like, remember things. And it's like, some of it is so blurry that it's hard to, like, wait, when? How old was I? And I have to, like. Yes, I grew up in that area, so I know what you're talking about.

And so, yeah, the next morning, myself and a few other people leave and – Did you sleep at all or just play through? No, I didn't sleep for a second. And, yeah, I left the next morning with a few of my buddies and the gangbangers departed. And the big booty Latina girls too. Yes, yes, they left the next morning with a few of my buddies and the gangbangers departed. And the big booty Latina girls too. Yes, yes. They left as well. And so, you know, I go back to Orange County and the next day, a police officer comes to our house. And it's like a female investigator and she's like asking me questions like, were you at this house and blah, blah, blah.

And I was like, I was there on, she's like, were you there like Saturday? I was like, no, I was there Friday. I was like, I was there Friday. I was told we were allowed to be there because I thought it was breaking and entering. That's what I assumed. And so I was like, I was told we were supposed to be there, allowed to be there. And she's like, well, you're not aware that that portion of the house was burned down? And I'm like, no, what are you talking about? And so she proceeds to tell me the story.

Apparently, some of the other people that the girl invited out for the next night one person got really high fell asleep with like a frozen pizza in the oven or something like that and started a fire and instead of like trying to put out they just left and drug addicts are all the same

aren't they and so there's like literally smoke billowing from this and it's like on a hill like too so like you smoke billowing from this and it's like on a hill like to it. So like you can see it from like, like a very far away. It is called Beverly Hills. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And so like they're driving down the hill as the fire, you know, the ambulance and the cops are coming up the hill, and the cop flips a U, and he's like, because it's a private road, and it only leads to that house.

And so they're like, are you leaving that house? They're like, no. You know, idiots, no, of course not, we weren't there. You know, lying, lying, lying, and then the cops are like, come on. So, you know, and the, I think one of them ended up getting charged with, like, fleeing the scene of a crime or something

like that but nothing serious came out of it uh but yeah it was wild and like when she told me that i was like how did they know you were there because the the house owner basically gave her a list of everyone who was there like the girl who took us out there basically gave the investment. But it was her uncle's house. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he owned it. So as you're doing lines off the navels of Big Booty Latinas with your gangbanger heroin dealer buddy in some girl's uncle's house where Entourage was filmed.

What are your parents thinking at this point of what you're doing? Well, my parents, God bless them. They're so naive. And my dad had this consistent belief that our kids will do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, not because of the consequence that could come from it. And, you know, as noble as that is, it's just, it doesn't work. You know, you have to have consequences. Otherwise, you will run rampant and think you can do whatever you want.

And that's how it is. I don't judge them. I grew up around, I mean, they sound like Southern Californians and their attitudes that way, yeah. Yeah, and, you know, yeah, my dad was just, you know, had a very strong moral conviction that, you know, he believed just was passed on to us. And so my parents were, again, you know, had no idea what was going on until um kind of another story basically long story short i had a friend who was put into a coma um we were at a party and this guy this guy came out really angry and just punched my friend in the face he fell hit his head put into a coma and um he wakes up three weeks

later and my mom is there i wasn wasn't there. My mom was there. And he says, Patty, you need to get Chris away from – and she named out – she named some of the kids that I was associating with. And she said, why? Because they were at my house. That was the first thing he said when he came out of a coma? Yes. Yes. God exists.

Yeah. Yeah. God bless him. Really, it was, and then, of course, you know, at the time, I was like that, you know, snitch, you know, that kind of mentality. It's like, why are you trying to rain on my parade? You know, I'm just having a good time. And, but yeah, you know, I mean, my friends tried several, like, you know, my quote-unquote stoner friends tried several interventions, and I was just, like, you know, extremely defensive and, like, who are you people to tell me anything, you know? And, you know, but again, they had my best interest at heart. Of course. And, you know, many of those people I'm still in contact with today. And I'm so grateful that they, you know, took the time and the effort to try to save me from myself.

Incredible. Are you still in high school at this point? Are you going to class? Yeah, going to class, you know, leaving early, stuff like that, you know, ditching, you know, like fifth period, fourth period to go hang out. How often are you doing heroin at this point? Every day. Every day. At what time of day?

Like what's the schedule for heroin addiction? So wake up. So I wasn't shooting it up yet. I was, I was smoking it at first. And, uh, how did you smoke it? So it's, so in California, um, heroin is mostly black tar heroin. Yep. Yep.

And, uh And so basically – From Asia, correct? Not sure. Okay. But yeah, it's like this little black, yeah, like square. And so you put it on a piece of tinfoil. You put a lighter underneath it and you get a straw. And it makes like – it'll like trail down the tinfoil and you're and the smoke's coming up

and you suck it through the straw with the lighter and uh yeah that was the what's the highlight from it uh i mean just total euphoria again you feel like you're on you're on top of the world you can it doesn't matter if you're literally your life is falling down around you you don't care it's like you're fine everything is fine everything is great wow yeah again then the insanity how long does it last um i'm just smoking it and again it all depends on like your tolerance level and things like that things like that that. But I would say like, you know, probably three, four hours, five hours. So while you're in high school, when are you smoking heroin? So I would do it before school, you know, at home.

In your bedroom? Yeah. Yeah. And your parents had no idea? In my shower. Yeah. And yeah, had no idea? Or in my shower. Yeah. And yeah, no, they didn't. Yeah, they didn't.

So when my friend got out of the coma, they started to kind of try to keep a closer eye on me. But I was still, you know, I was incredibly deceptive and very manipulative. Of course. Very manipulative and deceptive with my parents, making them think that, oh, these kids are great. No, they're actually the good kids. And when I think about like the torment that I put my parents through, it's just. Where were you getting the money to buy all this heroin? So I was.

I still had that job at the, um, uh, golf or selling golf clubs. And, um, and then I, you know, I would occasionally take money from my parents, um, whatever I needed to do. Um, and then things I'm, you know, not proud of. I bet. But yeah, that's the nature of the disease is you will do anything to get that next fix. Yes. it quickly deteriorated to shooting up because, you know, I'd say within like a month of smoking it, I started shooting up because, you know, a couple of my buddies started doing it, and they're like, oh my gosh, dude, you only have to use like one-fifth of the amount, and you get like a high that's like ten times better. I'm like, oh, great, save money. And, yeah, I remember the first time, like, I remember the first time my buddy and I did it.

We looked it up, how to inject, you know, great Google search, how to inject heroin into your body. You Google searched it? Yeah. And they have, like, images of, like, because you're supposed to go, like, diagonally. Like, you have to, like, just go straight down. Right. Because you want to go into the vein. Yes. Because you want to go into the vein, and then you basically draw back the syringe.

And once you see blood, because you know that it's in the vein, then you inject it. But if you miss, it's really painful. Basically, what happens is you don't get that immediate euphoric rush that comes with shooting up. That doesn't come with smoking. Like smoking it, yes, you get euphoria. But shooting up, it's instantaneous and it hits so much harder. It's like crack versus cocaine. Yes.

Yeah. And yeah, it was just a very, very – Can I just ask you for perspective? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can I just ask you for perspective? So how long between the moment you first crushed a pill and snorted it and the moment you first shot heroin? How long did that progression take? I would say less than a year, probably about nine months. Damn. That's a pretty speedy...

Yeah,ive illness. So what was it like the first time you shot heroin? Where'd you do it? It was at my buddy's house in Laguna Hills, in that neighborhood that I mentioned, Nellie Gill. The $5 million house neighborhood. Yeah, exactly. And so, yeah, we were in his room and I did it. And yeah, again, it's that just this overwhelming sense of euphoria. And yeah, everything is wonderful, even if, you know, your, even if your life sucks. And, and again, I understand why a lot of you know like homeless people do drugs it's like because their life is literally just in shambles and you know so i mean yeah they're so broken

there's no way to fix it this is their thinking so like this is the escape yeah so what's the point yeah exactly why not just live in like a you know almost like a metaverse you know yes Yes, exactly. Nicely put. Thank you. So, yeah, so I went to like, probably, I would say, not exaggerating, over 10 rehab centers in California. Wait, so how did you get, okay, so you start shooting heroin. How did you a daily basis, and I actually started going to a continuation school because I was just – I stopped going to class. My grades were too low, and I basically got kicked out of school. And so, I was at a continuation school. So, you wind up in – Yeah, the place i would ridicule and mock like and then i'm now i'm one of them uh was your junkie friend still there um the guy who

first turned you on to the deal because he was um he was like much older yeah or like yeah he was uh yeah he was a senior when i like i was a sophomore and he and he barely attended like i saw him a few times on campus but he barely went to school even when he was at continuation school. So yeah. And yeah, we really didn't associate with that guy other than just to go buy drugs, but, cause he was not an exactly, you know, a fun person to be around. And so I doing drugs, doing heroin or doing it, shooting up heroin before school, and for some reason that day I decided to take all my drugs with me. I had a little Ziploc packet with my syringe, what I use to tie off, all my equipment. Where did you get the syringes by the way so uh there are certain pharmacies that will you know if you say uh you know my my grandmother's a diabetic or whatever um that and

i think nowadays they just give them to you in a lot of places especially like northern california um anything they can do to encourage a drug addicted population therefore yeah 100 it's disgusting gavin newsom makes me sick the money like you know he talks about this multifaceted plan to attack the opioid epidemic it's like yeah you've spent billions of dollars and it's only gotten worse right encouraging people to be addicts yes absolutely um and so i got uh so i decided for some dumb reason to bring my uh drugs to school with me that day. And I also did something that I would never normally do. I told some random person that I'd never met that I was high on heroin, like in class.

Like someone I'd sat next to the first time seemed like a cool person, cool guy. Like, yeah, I'm on heroin. Yeah, and he's like, oh, really? And like, didn't seem like he was going to tell on me. And, uh, and so I'm in, I remember like two periods later, I'm in class and, uh, some administrator comes into the room and says, um, Chris Chella, can you come to the office? And, and I saw a cop behind her and I was like, oh, fuck. And so I go down to the office, and she's like, yeah,

we heard a rumor that you were doing drugs. And I'm like, who said that? She's like, well, I can't tell you. And I was like, well, it's not true. Deny, deny, deny, deny. But she's like, okay, you know we're gonna search you and i was like i don't think you guys have the i don't think you guys have the legal right to search me and she's like if we have probable cause and like you know the basically i i allowed it i

wasn't sure if it was legal or not but um i was hoping that and and so they searched me in pants you know belt all that stuff and she was about to turn away and then she says wait let me check your socks literally like last thing she did and i was like oh fuck and so of course got caught got arrested so you had the kid in your socks yeah yeah it's just like high socks with it just like right here and um so i get you know arrested or detained and my you know the cop releases me into my mom's custody uh and my mom drives me home she says you're you're going to rehab like uh you know i don't want to hear anything about it you're going to to rehab. And I was like, okay. And your mom is like someone who knows opioids, like how bad it is.

Yes, yes. And that's why she would, you know, at times, you know, when I was like, I was in terrible withdrawal. And I was like, Mom, I'm dying. Like, I need, like, please just give me like, you know, and, you know, she would occasionally give me a little bit of money just to, because she felt, because she knew,

she knew. And God bless her, you know, she just, I put so, I, you know, I rained down so much terror and chaos upon my parents.

They just, they were just trying everything they could think of. And, you know, some things they did really well, some things obviously, you know, some things they did really well. Some things, obviously, you know, again, being a parent is hard. Especially a parent of a wild, psychotic, fricking addict. And dealing with, you know, obviously, you know, my sister's issues as well.

You know, just, goodness. But as soon as my mom turned her back, I stole the $80 she had in cash out of her wallet and drove to LA. And obviously, um, oh, so the gangbanger that I left this out, the gangbanger that I was partying with, I really regret doing this because, you know, I consider him a friend, but I was desperate at the time. And so I was like, all right, I'm going to rob him. And you're going to rob the time and so i was like all right i'm gonna rob him and you're gonna rob the gangbanger yes yeah um and so i i guess that doesn't seem like a good decision no no um again but you know so desperate in in agony and like what else can I do? So I got this like 225 pound Scottish kid and this big kid from the football team. And I'm like, yeah, we're just going to rob this little skinny Mexican guy. It's like, no problem.

And they're like, all right, cool. And as we were getting up there. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Like super dumb people then. Yes. One of them became a meth head. He mocked me for being a heroin addict and like, you know, shunned me. But then he became like a hardcore meth head.

But you just go to them cold, hey, we're going to rob some Mexican kid. Yeah. And I failed to mention that he was, you know, a gangbanger and, you know, had associations with the Mexican mafia. And so I kind of let, I accidentally let that slip on the ride up there. And they're like, we don't want to do this anymore. No. Yeah, and so like we get there and I'm like, you fucking pussies. And so I just, sorry, cursing.

So I just get into the car myself and commit it, commit the robbery. How do you rob him? So I sprayed him in the face with pepper spray and put something to his throat. Don't move. Just reached into the, because I knew where he kept it. I just reached in and grabbed it. And then jumped out. My friend was in the driver's seat.

And I was like, go. And he's driving like a maniac. And I'm like, dude, calm down. Slow down. Because it's very narrow streets in that area. Things like that. And so, we're driving. You're making me tense, man.

Just telling me this story and where were you what town was this uh this was in like southgate like the same same area that you know i was going to pick up the stuff before and um you pepper sprayed a member of the mexican mafia and stole his heroin yes you got balls i'll say that um again have you apologized to him by the way, years later? I haven't had the opportunity. You haven't been back to Southgate.

No. Yeah. Uh, if, if, if, if you're watching, I apologize,

man. Would you like to say sorry? Yeah, no, I, I do regret it. but, uh,

so yeah, so my friend's driving down the street and we, I see him driving down the like perpendicular street behind us. And I'm like, how the fuck is he driving? I just like unloaded a bunch of pepper spray in his face. He's armed too. What? He's armed.

Yeah, probably. Yeah. And so we're like my, so I'm like, all right, just keep driving. And he – for some reason, he like just does like a wild turn onto a very narrow residential street, crashes into an oncoming car. Oh, come on! Yeah. And I'm just like, you fucking idiot. Do you go to church?

Yes. Good. I've – yes, I've gone to confession so many times. Good. And yeah, spirituality – But just to say thank you too for being here, for being alive. Yeah. No, I should have died so many times over.

You think? Like, yeah, I mean, the amount of, not just, you know, the stupid things that I was doing outside of my use, but, I mean, the, like, if I was an addict in the age of fentanyl, where, like, is laced in i probably would have died um just because i stopped in 2016 when that was like when it started to really get like when when they started to put heroin into fentanyl or fentanyl into heroin and other drugs because when trump got elected and the chinese decided to just like kill a huge part of our population yeah flood our country with poison, basically. Yeah, I remember that. I'm sorry, I'm stepping on your story again. No, you're fine. You're fine.

And by the way, can I just make one other editorial comment? As a product of Southern California, it's really a decadent society. I'm like for real decadent. Yeah, I'm sorry. And I grew up there in the early 80s

was when I was your age. The age you describe. And it was so decadent that I almost never think about it. But you were a product of that society. I mean, I'm just telling you that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 100%. Here's a fact of life you may not learn until you're

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And you see him perpendicular. Your friend swerves down a narrow road and head. Head on. Yeah. With some, you know, driver by. And so I jump out of the car, stash my drugs. Have you, have you used the heroin yet? No, no.

So you're still like jumpy withdrawal guy at this point. Yeah. Yeah. I jump out of the car, stash my drugs. Have you used the heroin yet? No, no. So you're still like jumpy withdrawal guy at this point. Yeah, but I stashed it. And this one, there was like, because there was a bunch of people, they immediately started to like, and my two friends take off, by the way. They just start running down the street. I'm like, why? Running down the street? Yeah, yeah.

In Southgate, LA. And this is not an anglo neighborhood so like they stick out yeah yeah yeah like sore thumbs like a big yeah i mean well one of them was hispanic so maybe not so much but um but the scottish guy yeah like um and uh so we uh so uh so i jump out of the car i stash my my drugs, sit down on the curb, and wait for the police because there's so many people there, so many witnesses. But again, no one knew that what had just transpired, all this – again, like it was just a car accident as far as they were concerned and as far as the police were concerned and so uh yeah my friends run and the cops the cops come they show up they're like you know hey what are you doing out here i was like we were trying to find a friend's house

we got turned around um uh yeah made up some bullshit story trying to find a friend and um and he's like well do you need to go to the hospital? And I'm like, no, no, I'm good. I'm good. I'm fine. And he's like, okay, well, do you have a ride? I was like, yeah, I'm going to call somebody to pick me up. And he's like, okay.

And so, you know, I wait for them to depart and go back into the little bush. Of course, grab my drugs. Can't forget that. And then I ended up getting a ride from a buddy, another user. And I was like, hey, I'll give you some dope if you pick me up. Because I was very concerned that they were going to, like, I was like, I need to get out of Southgate fast. Yeah, like right away. Yeah. And so I was like, dude, just please come pick me up.

I will make it worth your while. And so I get picked up. So you had to wait on the sidewalk? Well, I was actually this nice lady. She was like, her house was like right next to where the accident took place. And so I was like, do you mind if I just like post up on your front step? Like, I was like, I'm, I just want to wait for my ride. And, you know, it's kind of,

I'm kind of scared. I'm in a dangerous neighborhood, you know, played like the little, you know, uh, and, uh,

she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, you know, very kind. Uh,

and so I just sit there and wait. And, um, and you know, I have like the drugs in my fist ready to like toss them at a moment's notice if I need to or whatever. Um, and,

and then I get picked up and that's that. But what transpired after, because thankfully, they only knew me by CJ, like Chris Jr., my initials. That's what I went by, my nickname from like kindergarten through, yeah, through high school. And then they knew I lived in South Orange County and, but they didn't know anything else. And so they would, so they, they switched up the way they did their, like the way they did the process of selling the dope where they would now you had to, so you had to meet up, then follow them down like this empty street or an alley or something like that, then stand up against a chain link fence and get

searched. And then you could get into the car and get your stuff. And they would ask every single person, do you know CJ? Do you know CJ from South Orange County? Do you know where he lives? And yeah, so for a very long while, and you know, I was like, so grateful when I saw that OC Register article, the fact that they had and I saw saw his picture in the – his mugshot in the article, wild, and his name listed – I'm just not going to say it. But yeah, I mean, crazy stuff. Let me just pause to ask you, the guys who you were with on that caper where you assaulted the member of the Mexican mafia, did they turn out okay? Well, one of them became a meth head. Yes, as you said. Yeah.

And it's ironic because when they got caught, they got caught at like a Starbucks. Cops picked them up and they immediately just spilled everything told them the whole story for no reason and i know for a fact because my father represented him in the hit and run and the the the it took the uh da like until almost the end of the trial to figure out that I was also associated and like he's like wait your son was involved in this and my dad was like trying so hard to thread the needle you know to not get me not expose me to any potential criminality and also you know defend my friend and uh yeah it was uh one became a drug addict and the other one uh i kind of lost lost contact with have no how many of the guys that you partied with in high school

are sober now how many are dead do you do you keep track um from high school uh most yeah i one friend passed away um opiate user good good guy, but, you know, he wasn't like a particularly heinous junkie. I mean, he just was a junkie, but he was a good, I like, you know, good hearted. And, but he passed away. Of an OD. Yeah, overdose. And, you know, I had, I met a few friends in rehab, one whom I was very close to lived in New York and, you know, we stayed in contact, met in Florida, stayed in contact. And for, you know, like four years and then, you know, I got a call from his mom saying that he had OD'd, you know, relapsed and, you know, it was just heartbreaking. heartbreaking uh but uh yeah most but no most of my friends like the like the stoners from high

school yeah um are very successful individuals college graduates um you know working in finance working in different you know sectors and having a great life what about the opioid users the opioid users kind of like they they have the advantage of like – many of them that I hang out with or hung out with, excuse me, were already – their family was just uber wealthy. Like one of them – one of their fathers was the CEO of a company called AmeriQuest. It was worth like $80 million. So they had a lot of money to fall back on so like they tried opening up like a clothing line different thing but ultimately label what music label no not yet that's kind of the classic one yeah no there were other kids in our in our uh in in

orange county that did do that that started that tried to start a rap group and i'm just like of course yeah i could write this story it's yeah the orange county is so weird um but um anyway so yeah so i've uh well yeah but most of my friends from high school are very successful and i mean my like the one the stoners are, yeah, yeah. But unfortunately, yeah, I've lost multiple friends, you know, people that I actually genuinely cared about, not just, you know, acquaintances. Yes. You know, too many acquaintances to count, but, you know, real friends. It's been like, you know, like five. Do you have any idea what happened to the guy you pepper sprayed?

No. And, oh, this is nuts. When I was in rehab, so the guy boss, right, he had different runners, like, you know, multiple guys who would run to cars. And one time I had this guy, and so I was in rehab, and it was like a, it was in San Diego, and I think it's Chula Vista. Great place to put a rehab. But it was like a... Well, your rehab was in Chula Vista? Yeah. And yeah, it's like you're setting yourself up to fail.

But they had like, it was a mansion. And then it was kind of like a bungalow. They had little like bungalows, like type things. And so it could house of like a bungalow. They had little bungalows type things. And so it could house about 30, 40 people. And so they had me there. And this guy comes in and I'm like, he looks familiar. And I couldn't put my finger on where I'd seen him before. And he goes, hey, man.

He said, I used to run for boss. And I, uh, he's like, I think I delivered to you once. And I'm like, Oh my God. And he's like, and he's like, he's like, he's like, you're friends with Harvey, right? And the guy that robbed, the guy that I robbed. And I was like, yeah, yeah. Great friends.

And, um, I was like, I heard he was locked up though. He's like, yeah, no, he's out now. And I was like, yeah, yeah, great friends. And I was like, I heard he was locked up though. He's like, yeah, no, he's out now. And I was like, oh, okay. And he's like, I'll tell him you said hi when, because you get a seven day blackout and you can't use the phone when you first go in. A lot of treatment centers have that rule. This place did.

And so he's like, yeah, I'll tell him you said what up when I talked to him. I'm like, oh my God, he's like, yeah, I'll tell you said what up when I talked to him. I'm like, oh my God, this guy's going to knife me in my sleep. And I was seriously, I was concerned. I was going to tell my therapist and see what could potentially be done because I was genuinely, because you could easily in that place, sneak out of your bedroom, go and go into someone else's bedroom. Yeah.

If you wanted to, it's not like it's locked down, you know, they have, you know, quote unquote people that are watching at night, but the place is so big. It's, you know,

you could do it if you want. And of course there are no locks on the doors. No, no, of course not because yeah, exactly. Um, people were buying air duster and like, you know, like anything not because – Right. Yeah, it's junkies. Yeah, exactly. People were buying air duster and like anything to get a buzz.

And I was just like, wow. That was kind of eye-opening for me but not eye-opening enough to stop. But it's like, wow. So how many times did you get a rehab? Total between California and Florida, probably somewhere between 15 and 20. 15 and 20? Yeah. I got, cause I got kicked out of a bunch of places for stupid, for, for reasons that were

not related to drugs necessarily. Uh, fraternization. What does that mean? Hooking up with girls that were. Grabbing the girls. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, not again, consensually.

Right. I'm sorry. Right. I meant that in a consensual. Yeah. Just let me, yeah. Clarify that. In a pre Harvey Weinstein sense. Yeah. I mean, not, again, consensually. Right. No, I'm sorry. I meant that in a consensual way. Just let me clarify that. In a pre-Harvey Weinstein sense. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And I mean, I was like 17, 18 years old. Does heroin affect your sex drive? Yes. It lowers it a lot. And then when you come off of it horny 24 7 like yeah yeah because it's like cocaine is like that yeah and and it's it's interesting because like my one of my therapists described um withdrawal as your body basically being in shock because you've been numbing all your senses for so long. Yeah. And then when you stop, your body is like everything is just like taking in light. Yeah. Chewing food.

Everything hurt. Like my eyes hurt. My teeth hurt. Every muscle and bone in my body ached. Like it is, if you could find a way to like inject that into, like find a way to inject that feeling for interrogation purposes, let that guy sweat it out for a day. He'll tell you where all the bombs are. I assure you. It is like truly I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Really? Yeah. It is so bad. Did you have to detox, I guess, every single time, 15 or 20 times you went to rehab? Pretty much. There were a few times when I was like kind of just on and off using. And so it was like the withdrawal was like, yeah, I kind of felt it, but there were, yeah, probably about 10 times when I went through hardcore withdrawal. And yeah, every single time I was like like i never want to feel this feeling again

you know and but i wasn't i still wasn't committing to myself that i wanted to stop i was just like how long does it last the withdrawal agony uh i mean it's they say like up to like seven days typically but i mean mean, in reality, I mean, my withdrawal, my last withdrawal lasted about like three, it was like three weeks before I remember, I remember like the day I was like laying in bed and I was like, wow, I actually feel comfortable. Like my body doesn't ache. Like I can, I'm like, I feel, I feel kind of normal. Three weeks? Yeah. I mean, and it's like, the first week is just like absolute hell.

You're sweating bullets. You're cold. Like the sweat on your body makes you cold. And then it's just, it's, it's terrible. And again, all of the other things I described. And that just slowly, and then, and then the, the discomfort, It's like the epitome of discomfort. Gastrointestinal too? Some people got like diarrhea, things like that.

I didn't. Some people got like would vomit and stuff, but that never really happened to me. I guess it's just – it depends on the person. But yeah, it's just overwhelming like sense of just – shock, I guess, is the best way to put it. And, yeah, again, just terrible. Interesting. So, rehab, I mean, you're making a pretty strong case it doesn't work very well. I mean, if you went to 50 – I mean, God knows what that cost, by the way, you know, someone paid for it. I don't know if it was your family or some insurance

program, the state taxpayers, whatever, but someone's paying a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah. So the first rehab I ever went to was, it was called the Phoenix house and it was in, it was in like Northern orange County and it was a state run facility. And like you, it was like a kind of like a bootcamp style. You had to like fold your bed with the military, you know, corner crease and everything like that. All your shirts had to be lined up. Your, you know, your toiletries had to be perfectly in a row,

all that stuff. And, you know, I did that and I was like, I was like, I hate this. This sucks. And all I want to do is get out and, you know, I'm just like, I just can't wait till this 30 days is over so I can leave. And, and I was like, I was like, I don't think I want to do heroin. I was like, I, at that time I was like, I don't think I want to do heroin, but I definitely want to, like, I still want to be able to smoke marijuana.

I still want to be able to smoke marijuana. I still want to be able to drink. And like – I mean to it's really, you can go to as many different treatment centers, doctors, AA meetings. It has to be, I think, an intrinsic motivation to better yourself. And you have to want that. Like you have to want it. You can't do it for somebody else. If you're doing it for your child, if you're doing it for your wife, if you're doing it for your parents, you're going to fail. Hey, it's Tucker Carlson, not to be a moralizer, but some things, and you know this as well as we do, some things are just wrong. They may not be illegal, but you'd never do them for reasons of self-respect, if no other. And teabagging, sorry to say it, teabagging is one of those. You shouldn't be doing that. And you know, you shouldn't be doing that. And yet the big nicotine pouch companies encourage you to teabag. They call them nicotine pouches,

but they're basically teabags. They're dry, desiccated, tasteless, they're disgusting, and they're degrading to you. Don't put one in your mouth. Now you have an option. It's called ALP. It's not dry like a teabag. You're not teabagging when you use it. And you should be proud of that. You've got self-respect. Now you can show that self-respect with our no teabagging t-shirt, which you can find right now at alppouch.com. No Frills delivers. Get groceries delivered to your door from No Frills with PC Express. Shop online and get $15 in PC Optimum points on your first five orders. Shop now at nofrills.ca. Shop online and get $15 in PC Optimum points on your first five orders. Shop now at nofrills.ca. the FIFA Club World Cup. The world's best players, Messi, Haaland, Kane, and more are all taking part,

and you can watch every match for free on DAZN starting on June 14th and running until July 13th. Sign up now at DAZN.com slash FIFA. That's D-A-Z-N.com slash FIFA. Okay, so let me just ask you, I've heard and known, I've heard this story and I've known many people who've lived this story where they're addicted to something, whether it's pills or heroin, cocaine, alcohol mostly. And they just go to rehab after rehab after rehab, relapse after relapse after relapse, destroying their sense of themselves. And they feel like losers when you keep failing at something. It's not good for you. You fail more. Yeah, exactly.

So why do we have, like like what's the point of this like why do we have these centers clearly don't work i mean do they i don't know it doesn't sound like they do yeah i mean again it's it's i think that like it's it all depends on the person but again it has to you have to want it that's the bottom line is like you have to want it and That's the bottom line. It's like, you have to want it. And like, these treatment centers, they can't, they do some good, but they should not be like, you should not say, you know, rehab is a cure or AA is a cure because like, yeah, if you go into those places, you can sometimes develop the intrinsic motivation through therapy or through discussion with other people or whatever. But I mean,, for me, it was so fast forward a little bit. So, you know, I get basically kicked out of every rehab in California.

So, my parents are like, all right, let's send you to Florida. Let's try a new environment. And South Florida was like the rehab capital. Of course, Delray. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Delray, Boynton Beach. And it was just, I mean, I was shocked that like some of the places where the halfway houses were, or the sober homes were located like down the street from like the known markets where people like were, you know.

It's a scam. Look, no one's more for sobriety than I am. I'm a sober person, totally opposed to drugs and alcohol, period. But let's just stop lying about it. This is a, these places are a scam. Not all of them. Yeah. But a lot of them are just a money-making scam profiting off the misery and death of addicts.

Yeah, they see you as an insurance policy with a heartbeat. Exactly. That's pretty much it, you know, and. True villains, I think. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. This most, the most sinister man probably in, if you want to just pick one out is, his name is.

He was, I, that was the first treatment center I went to in Florida. So, owned a treatment center and he owned several halfway houses, but they were all, everything was in his wife's name. That's one thing that was like a red flag to me. Um, and so, and this guy shows up to the, to the rehab center in like a three piece, you know, Armani suit with like a Gucci belt and like, you know, um, like dressed like a pimp, you know? I mean, and, and ironically he is a pimp. He was, so he had girls in his halfway houses that he was giving heroin, giving crack, and pimping them out,

and then sending them back to treatment where they would ultimately fail their drug test and have to go to detox. And guess who gets a kickback from the detox center? No way. Yeah, and it's the South Florida rehab shuffle. There are many cases of it. And guess who gets a kickback from the detox center? No way. Yeah. And it's the South Florida rehab shuffle.

There are many cases of it. If you just Google that, you'll see a bunch of different stories. But I would say it was like the kingpin of just absolute scumbag, like you said, villain, a villain, a true villain. That's so evil that it's hard. Yeah. It's incomprehensible to me as a human being. It's so evil that it's hard. Yeah, it's incomprehensible to me as a human being. It's like a slave trader. Yeah, yeah, essentially. Treating people as objects, as animals.

Yeah. So is he still in this business? I've never heard of him. No, he was sentenced to 27 years in prison. Wow, good. Yeah, so the feds started to crack down on the Florida rehab shuffle, although I read somewhere that it's supposedly coming back. That the, you know, because it's basically and, you know, it wasn't the he was probably one of the worst offenders.

But a lot of these guys were, you know, they they would just like, you know, get these cheap homes, fill them with as many addicts as they could. Sometimes they would charge rent like 75 bucks a week or something like that, plus the money they're getting from kickbacks from whichever treatment center they send them to. So they're housed. And then if they go to detox, the kickback, it's a revolving door of chaos and a revolving door of suffering and just pain for the addict. But they're making money at every stop. This is disgusting. It is.

Do the addicts in the rehab center understand that they are pawns in a profit-making scheme? were starting to wake up to it. And I, and I knew one of the girls who was, um, one of his victims and she would, she was always like, man, I just want to get the hell out of here. And she had this like, look in her, like, I could see that there was something. And I thought she was just very like, you know, maybe had some, some issues with her family or whatever, just a very depressed, sad person, even for an addict, even for an addict. Like I could tell that there was something like she was in absolute like misery and terror. She was afraid of, they were afraid, many people were afraid of him and what he would do if they spoke out. And it was just, it was heartbreaking for me to see that, you know, even as someone who's, you know, obviously committed crimes and things like that,

I can't even imagine having the will to carry out such a monstrous act. It tells you a lot. So, I mean, that many rehabs, you met a lot of people. What did you learn about addicts? Addicts are some of the most resourceful, intelligent people on the planet. Like, you drop an addict in the middle of the desert, and they're going to find the nearest tribe with an opium pipe, you know, within 30 minutes. And so, if you get- They're single-minded aren't they well yeah but if you get them to uh if you can you know separate them from the drug and separate them from the addiction and turn that into something that's good like you know an addiction to work or addiction to

helping others you know that you can get addicted to. Like, I mean, for me, the reason I got sober, I think there's several factors that played into it. Obviously, God, you know, and the intrinsic motivation, you know, that I talked about and having a fantastic support system that was there for me. They were just there for me. They were just waiting for me to come to them. You know, just like, hey, we're here. Your family? Yeah, my family and one of the, one halfway house owner

who was kind of participating in this game, but he cared. Like, he cared. He genuinely cared about the people who were coming to his house. He did not allow any drug use or anything like that. There was, I was at one place that was selling, this guy was selling crack to his clients at the halfway house. No way. Yes. And he was selling crack to just people in general. So, we would get knocks on our doors at three o'clock in the morning from total fucking spun out crackheads. Come on. Yeah.

No, man. And there was no door on the bathroom. It was a hundred, you know, it was the middle of the summer in South Florida. It's like 110 degrees out, no air conditioning, just fans littering, you know, littered across the living room and down the hallways and stuff. And I mean, just an absolute shit show. And people are smoking crack in the halfway house? Yeah.

His rule was, you know, fine line, no needles. Like, yeah, you can smoke crack, you can smoke whatever you want, just no needles. Like, all right. Did you smoke crack in the halfway house? Yeah, a couple times. Yeah. What do you think of crack? I'd say it's very destructive, obviously. But in terms of like a high, it's like you're, it's like 30 minutes of like, I can, you know,

kind of that I can conquer the world. You want to start doing all these like different tasks that you've been putting off, like, because you feel confident about them now, but then it wears off. And then you're just like, so depressed. And you think about every bad thing you've ever it's like uh yeah like um i don't know if you've ever had like cocaine withdrawal like or you know just coming off of cocaine after like a night of bender you like my dad would tell me that when he would do coke like he was just like you think about like yeah in third grade when i pushed that kid you

know again into the stairwell or whatever uh just like every you know and just like you just feel like a piece of garbage and you're depressed yes and uh you you pay for every happy moment yes yes and and and the crack it lasts it's like the the high is so fleeting too like with heroin at least you get like a few good hours of you know a solid buzz but with crack it's like uh you know it goes away relatively fast. How many people in rehab or halfway houses did you meet who were determined to get sober? Not very many. How every person, I think without exception, I know who's been addicted to drugs or alcohol, who got better, has a sense that there's he saying a great you know a greater power that there's god yeah absolutely and that you know human beings have

souls and each one is unique and important and life is important and life is better than death and you know sort of like the basic grounding of monotheism so right like how big a role did god play in any of these rehab centers well well when i was so i was living in the the halfway house i was selling the guy was selling crack to to us and um i'd i just smoked some marijuana for the first time in a long time and it made me like very introspective you know we can do that um say kind of like psychedelics too too um and and i was like you know just i and I heard a voice in my head that I can only assume is just, you know, a spiritual awakening God saying like, what are

you doing? What are you doing? Why are you here surrounded by these people? Like looking around, I'm just like, I have so much more to offer the world than what I'm, you know, I mean, I'm just a derelict and I don't have to be. I have people who love me. I have people who would, you know, I mean, I'm just a derelict and I don't have to be. I have people who love me. I have people who would, you know, would die for me. You know, my family is, you know, you know, are so loyal and they love me so much. They just want me to stop being a piece of garbage. And I just, that day I was like, I am done with this stuff. It's not fun anymore. And I wanted to better myself. So I think that was God instilling the motivation.

So yeah, I mean, yeah, I got sober at a crack. It's kind of funny. You know, tried 50 different rehab centers, but ended up, you know, getting sober at a crack house. Um, but I think that that's, yeah, it was smoking weed in the halfway house. Yeah. He didn't care about, yeah. And yeah, you could smoke anything you wanted in there pretty much. Um, and, uh, yeah, I was just like that day I knew I was never going to touch an opiate again. And I know people say like, you, you have to wake up and make a decision every day that you're not going to use. But it's like I don't even – it doesn't even like register in my mind like to say it like, oh, I'm not going to use heroin today because like – you know what I mean? You know what I'm saying?

I do know what you're saying actually. Yeah. It's like because it's like I look back and I'm like that's – I'm a different person. I'm truly a different person. I have, like, evolved. I was like a caterpillar becoming a butterfly or, you know, whatever analogy you want to use. But just, and looking back and thinking, how could I have possibly done all this? And, yeah, I mean, Christ plays a huge role. And I think it's really important and even for people who are

excuse me uh you know maybe atheistic or whatever but just believing in something greater than yourself that can uh that you know you can strive to be better and strive to you know just whatever set goals for yourself and achieve them and And by doing that, you are, you know, I think that's how people can find a way out of addiction. And then you grasp onto something, find things that you really enjoy. So like what, I was like, okay, what do I enjoy? I like, I love movies. I'm a huge movie fanatic, and I'm really interested in politics and journalism. And ironically, what – I mean I was always – like Fox News was on my parents' television 24-7. So I grew up conservative. My grandmother was a door knocker for Reagan and for – Bush?

Someone else. I can't think. No, the – Ford, Nixon, Goldwater? The first conservative to run. I can't think. No, the – Ford, Nixon, Goldwater? The first conservative to run. He didn't win. Goldwater. Oh, yeah, Goldwater. 1964.

Yeah, Goldwater. Yeah. And so, yeah, politics kind of is in my DNA, I would say. And I remember watching Fox in the lead up to the presidential election. It was like the perfect time to get interested in politics, right? You've got Trump and Hillary Clinton. And then I remember seeing you. And I was like, and I'm not just saying this because I'm on your podcast. This is genuinely the truth. I saw you on your show. And I was like, I love the way this guy does the news. It's different.

It's unique. It's funny. It's like, I want to do something like that. That's what I want to do. You're like, here's a Southern Californian who had addiction problems, and he turned out okay. And you're like, hey. Yeah. I didn't know all that about you.

No, I was just like, wow, this guy is like so much different than the other voices on Fox. You know, I mean, not to, you know, I mean, you know, you just bring such a unique perspective. You're willing to, you know, go against, you know, quote unquote, the party and call out the, you know, the rhinos and neocons and all that stuff. And I was just like, he's awesome. Like, this is great. And so let me ask you like a philosophical question. So in between jobs, once I got fired from another job, I was an unpaid fellow at a libertarian think tank in DC. And I thought it was a libertarian, sort of am libertarian in a lot of ways still, you know, I really don't want to bother other people. But I left after a drug policy conference that I went to that really kind of changed my thinking on the world. And at it, they explained the libertarian

position on drug policy, which is kind of America's position on drug policy, which is, it's the drug addict's fault. Like, people get addicted to drugs, that's their problem, that's their fault and it's kind of the demand explanation for the drug epidemic it's like we have a lot of drugs because people want a lot of drugs in this country it's not mexico or china's fault or the drug dealers yeah no the the the um yeah the desire for it like yeah and and that's what mexico says it's like if you people didn't want it so badly exactly you know it's and it's very true. And I thought, you know, that makes sense. I mean, it's kind of like one of those lines you hear.

They're like, yeah, that sounds right. And then you think of your own life. And then you think of the people you know who got, you know, tragically fucked up or killed by drugs. And, of course, I know a lot of them. And you think, no, actually, like, some of them are like your mom, super healthy person. Obviously, a distance runner, the healthiest person, like, in America. You know, they're distance runners. And she has an injury, and some doctor gives her a drug, and she becomes an addict.

Yeah, and my dad, literally, one time, he went into the office, and he grabbed the guy by his, like, threw him up against the wall. He's like, you're poisoning my fucking wife. Good for your dad. Yeah, and— I should say, your parents, such a beautiful your dad. Yeah. And, and, um, I should say your parents, such a beautiful, you told me off camera,

still married, which is so beautiful. Married for four, married for 40 plus years. And, uh, that's incredible. And,

uh, yeah, they've, yeah, they're in love. I mean, they're a true, a genuine love story. That's the best part of this whole story.

And the reason, just really quickly, the reason my dad fell in love with my mom, like, at first sight was because he said she was the only woman in New York he saw that was wearing a crucifix, like, that he'd seen in New York. So he's like, he's like, yeah, she's the one. They sound like

great people. Oh, you would love my dad. Oh, I can tell. I can tell. I'd like to throw a few doctors against the wall myself. But, okay, so then there's that, and then there's your story, which is like insecure high school kid. Like how many high school kids are not insecure? Zero.

Like the feelings that you described, like, I don't quite fit in. I don't know if I'm cool or not. Every single kid has that feeling at 15. So you're not unique in that way. And someone's like, hey, try this. And then you become like a crazed, you know, needle, try this. And then you become like a crazed, you know, needle-dependent heroin addict, and you're pepper-spraying members of the Mexican mafia and almost getting killed.

So, like, within a year. Yeah. So, that suggests to me that what we have is a supply problem, not a demand problem. Like, you're in a, you know, you probably would have been happy with Bud Light or Coors Light or whatever. Yeah. And instead, you wind up on heroin because you had access to this drug. So if you take a hundred people and give them heroin every day for a month, like what percentage become junkies?

Like, well, all of them. Yeah, yeah. So- For sure. It was, I was just thinking this at this drug policy conference and I was like, actually, you're all liars. Probably getting paid by Purdue Pharma to lie.

And it's the Cato Institute, and they're definitely liars. I can say that now. But I didn't understand it until, because this is the one topic I knew something about, having lived it. But, like, what is the answer to this problem that kills over 100,000 people a year? From, like like a government perspective like what are we it seems like we're paying addicts to use drugs that's kind of my perspective yeah i mean i mean i think that one one thing we should not be doing is what california is is doing and trying to do set up like little basically porter pot porter potties for addicts to go in and

you know use and you know um like little centers with clean needles and all that stuff. Why would you encourage people to use heroin? Exactly. You don't coddle and enable drug addicts. That is the worst thing you can do because they're just going to continue using. And heroin is not a drug that you can use. It's not like a... Because there's a lot of functional alcoholics and functional, you know, people who, you know, are on like, you know, Valium or whatever, you know, kind of pill poppers that, you know, you would never know. But, yeah, heroin, I just, I've never seen anyone who doesn't, it doesn't become a lifestyle.

It's not, it's not like a side thing, you know, or hobby or whatever. It is your life. It is all-consuming. What destroys you as a human being. Yeah. And same with meth. Oh, yeah. Yeah, meth, like inside and out, too.

Heroin doesn't quite, like, do the damage to your, like, your complexion. Yeah, outwardly, outwardly but like inwardly it's it i think it's worse but um but meth is yeah absolutely terrible were you around a lot of meth people oh yeah in so in northern california um because we moved to northern california after um when i was when i was 18 uh i remember my dad came down to San Diego because I was in rehab in San Diego. And he picked me up and we drove north. To where? To the Bay Area, to the East Bay.

We lived in Concord. Yeah, yeah. And because my grandmother lived in Lafayette. Yep, I know it. And she was. Those were nice towns. I don't know if they still are, but they were. Well, Concord has been kind of been taken over by – there's a lot of gang activity.

Oh, God. And like – and it borders Clayton too. So they're like – I think they're probably going to do something about it because Clayton is like a really nice area. So they're probably going to start cracking down more because the rich people are being affected. So now it's a problem. problem you know um and uh so yeah so we moved up there and again i started associating with the worst of the worst uh that just you know gangbanging meth heads and i'd never tried meth before and uh i remember i was just at this guy's house and he pulls out a pipe like all right yeah try it see what the see what the fuss is about. And I like I.

You're an open minded young man. Yeah. So, you know, I didn't necessarily love it. It wasn't this like, oh, yeah, I need this. But my but but like my became my best friend was was a dealer. So he always had it so it's like i would always just yeah take like a puff or two there was one point where i stayed up for 12 days straight and then slept for eight hours and stayed up for another um sort of total of 17 days so yeah another five days um and because doing heroin and meth it's's like meth when you're basically up for a day or two, you start to get weird seeing shadow people and shit like that. Then you do heroin and it resets you almost. It's almost like you slept a little bit and your brain's back to normal and it's not going into crazy mode. I have seen meth heads. Like I remember this one story.

So we were at this girl's house in her garage and it was myself, our dealer, and this chick. And she had just all over her face from scratching. She looked like terrifying. But I had been kicked out of my house, so we were just chilling there. We were just going from place to place trying to find a spot to kick it and rest or whatever. And so we're smoking in there for like three, four hours. And her and my friend go into the bathroom or inside her house. And I just kind of like sit back and I end up like falling asleep.

And I didn't realize. I was like, I woke up and I was like, I had no idea how long I'd been asleep. Like 30 seconds, 30 minutes, whatever. And there was no one in the garage. So I like knock on the garage door, kind of peek my head in. I'm like, hey, what are you guys doing? And she comes out. She's like, close the door.

I'm like, okay. And then she comes out. She's like, what the, what the are you doing in my, in my house? My kids are in there. And I'm like, oh my God, you have kids. And she's like, yeah, what, what'd you steal? What did you steal? And I'm like, I didn't steal anything.

And then she pulls out a handgun. Oh, my God. Yeah, and, like, it's this switch that flips for some people. It's never happened to me, but this flip that switches, and they just become a totally different, irrational, dangerous human being. And so this woman has a gun pointed at me and she's like i want she's like

empty your pockets blah blah blah and i i i went like this and pulled out like you know i was like look i didn't steal anything from you what would i steal i poked my head into your place for two seconds and i'm like by the way uh if you have your kids sleeping in there you're kind of a shitty mom you know because i'm like so you insult the lady with the gun pointed at you because i was thinking another if i can just so you insult the lady with the gun pointed at you because i was thinking another if i can just ask you to pause chris another unwise decision yes yes but i was thinking i was like this woman isn't going to pull the trigger it was a neighborhood that the houses were like right next to each other the police station was like down the street you're betting

that the meth head is rational i don't know what was thinking. I was just angry and I was high too. So, you know, I'm not exactly in the best, you know, decision-making frame of mind. But anyways, so she's like, she's like, take your fucking clothes off. I want to make sure you didn't steal anything. I'm like, fuck you. Sorry.

Yeah, no, no, no, please. I'm like, fuck you. You're out of your fucking mind. I was like, I didn't steal a fucking thing from you. I was like, you're not steal a fucking thing from you. You like, I was like, you're not going to shoot me. So how about you just let us fucking leave? And so, and I'm like, and I'm, and I'm looking at my friend and I'm like, dude, and he's just standing there. Like this guy was a, a piece of work. So that night, so, so she's like, all right, get the fuck out of here. And she opens

her garage up for us. And we leave. And my friend calls an Uber. And the Uber, like the, her phone died in the middle of the ride. And so like the trip got canceled. And so the woman who was driving us was like, get out, get out of my car right now. And, uh, we were like, uh, still like a couple of miles from our destination, uh, his sister's house. And, uh, he, and I was like, oh shit. And he's like, oh, don't worry. I have a spot we can go to. And I'm like, okay. And so we walk up the street, um, and there's this house and, uh, he's like, yeah. Um, I forget who he said owned it, but, um, he's like, yeah, I forget who he said owned it, but he's like, yeah, it's cool if we crash here, and he tries to open the front door.

It's not locked. He's like, all right, let me go around the back, and he's like rummaging around. He's rummaging around in the backyard, and I'm standing in the front just sitting on the steps because I didn't think there was anything sketchy, and this car drives by, and it kind of slows down, and then it keeps going and

i'm like huh that was weird and then it loops back and then stops and i was like oh shit so i had a backpack with me i grabbed my backpack hopped the fence into the backyard and i was like, hey, dude, someone's here. And he takes off. And I'm running. And it's like four in the morning in Northern California in the winter. And I'm running and it's pitch black and I fall into a pool. This is like one of the worst nights of my life. And I was in a low-key opiate withdrawal too on top of all of that on top of the meth and the the crazy girl pointing the gun at you yeah yeah and that's why i was so irritable and probably if i yeah if i had been you know if i was on heroin it probably

would have gone down a lot differently but uh i probably wouldn't have been as aggressive but i was so you know ticked off and so uh i uh fall in the pool. I see flashlights coming towards us, and this guy has already on and, you know, like soaking wet and I couldn't climb. It was too heavy. So I just shed the backpack and just hop the fence and I'm running down this hill and I run face first into a chain link fence. It's like a dream sequence. And my face is like, you know, so now my face is bleeding and my hands are bleeding from climbing the fence and I don't have any shoes on. And so I am just so cold and so miserable. And so I, there was like a hill and then there was a grocery store, kind of a little strip mall type place.

And so I go down there and i look for the sketchiest person possible like you know just you can tell yeah yeah they're using my radar and uh and i was like hey man can i use your phone to call attack because i knew if i asked any normal person they saw me with blood on my face and no shoes on they'd be like uh get the fuck away from me sir please um but uh no they were uh they were really nice they um let me use their phone and i called a taxi jumped into the taxi i was like please turn the heat up as high as you can and i uh went home and at first my parents weren't going to let me in. And I was like, listen, I'm probably going to get hypothermia if you don't let me in, please. I was like, I will do whatever you want.

I will go anywhere. I just, please. And I remember like going into their room and just like wrapping myself up in a giant blanket. And I was like, I'd never felt so um relieved in my life did you ever figure out who was chasing you um i think it was someone who uh like because the house it turns out the house was for rent and it was uh it was um there was no one in it and so i didn't know of course i didn't know that he said yeah this is a spot that we can go to. I just assumed it was another dope fiend's place. And so, yeah, all that. One of the most, I'd say, difficult things that I had to accept that I did was because my dad would, from time to time, figure out where I was and go to these, you know, these crack houses and places like that and beg me to come home.

And I remember one time specifically, he said, please, please, Chris, please come home. Like, your family loves you. Please. In tears. And my dad doesn't cry. And I was just like, no. And he's like, okay, well, at least take. And he gave me his crucifix and St. Christopher medal.

I broke the chain, but I still have them to this day. And gosh, even then it tore me up, because I just wasn't ready to stop. And I didn't know, I didn't want to cause this pain and suffering that my parents were feeling. And so I drowned it out with just more use and to try to... You can see how that happens.

Yeah. So when you quit 2016, how long did it take to get back your equilibrium for your brain to start functioning as it had before you started using opioids? Honestly, I don't know that it will it it has ever gotten back to where it was before but i think that it took about i would say like nine months to a year to like get like the all like to get the fog out and like you know have like because like my memory was shot just everything was like depleted and so in order to get you know to get those receptors and everything

firing again and to get my brain back to where it needed to be yeah i just um it was hard uh what are the long-term longer-term effects um i effects? I would say memory loss is definitely a thing. Equilibrium. Like I have a very bad equilibrium. Like people think I'm drunk sometimes because I'll like stumble. But it's just like, no, I'm just, yeah, my equilibrium is off. And I mean, obviously, you know, long-term like things like anxiety, you know, it's ironic because a lot of people use heroin to treat their anxiety, but it causes, again, it's the rebound effect. And so, yeah, anxiety, depression, just a myriad of bad things. I have known, you know, people addicted to opioids and have heard that it affects your ability to feel happiness once you're off it.

Yeah, I would say that, yeah, I didn't, I always, and I, you know, and even to this day, like, have this kind of sense sometimes of, like, you know, for example, like, getting a job in Congress working for Matt Gaetz and having Matt Gaetz compliment me and tell me and say all these nice things about me. It's like, I don't feel like I deserve this praise, you know? I mean, sure, I'm a, like, I'm a decent person. But, yeah, it's like, it took me a while to just understand that that like, yeah, I am worthy of these. I have achieved a lot. I have been, you know, sure, I've done a lot of bad things, but I've done everything I can to try to, you know, repair the damage that I caused. Yes. And so, like, so no, I deserve, you know, it's just, it's hard to force yourself to, you know, accept like, yeah, like, yeah, you're doing well.

Like, yes, you were as bad as it could get, but you've turned it around. And, like, you know, I was kind of nervous about this interview, but then I was like, and I was talking to my dad, and he's like, Chris, you stopped using heroin. You can do an interview. That's true yeah and i mean yeah you know it was um and again like i go back to the intrinsic motivation it's just so important to want to level up in life and i think that like you know i kind of compare it to like the whole body positivity movement it's like yeah you're 40 pounds and i'm not talking about people with like medical issues but like you're 40 pounds overweight no you're perfect just the way you

are it's like no put the donut down go to the gym like you know stop stop coddling people who are you know who have a food addiction encouraging people to destroy themselves yeah the way i think about it yeah right only only people who are filled with hate would do that i don't care what they dress it up as if you're encouraging someone to hurt himself you hate that person right yeah i mean it seems so well obviously yeah if you did that to your kids here get type 2 diabetes here become a junkie you would be a terrible parent but you would be acting of hate for your kids obviously yeah sinister it's um It is sinister. And, you know, that's why, you know, like, you see all these, like, Victoria's Secret plus size, you know, it's like, and again, you shouldn't do, you shouldn't want to better yourself, you know, for societal acceptance, but for your own sense of, you know, happiness and well-being and purpose because you talk to any person who's overweight, you know, and like, again, without medical conditions, like, obviously, they're

going to say, yes, I would prefer to be, prefer to lose a few pounds. I mean, I would assume I've never talked to every obese, I haven't talked to every obese person on the planet, but the ones that I have talked to, yeah, I would like. Well, they're tormented by it, of course. They're tormented by it. You don't feel good. And, and, and, and, and, yeah, and like Victoria's Secret and these other places trying to tell them, oh, yeah, you're perfectly fine. Keep doing what you're doing.

Don't change anything. No. It's evil, obviously. Let's just call it what it is. Yeah. All these things are there. Big pharma. Yeah, I think.

Abetting the destruction of human beings. And that's the worst thing you can do in this life, in my opinion. Absolutely. Big Pharma is the closest thing to, like, if you just want to talk about pure evil, like getting into the realm of demonically sick. Big Pharma is, I think, the prime example of what they've done to this country. I couldn't agree more. Chris, thank you for spending all this time and for being so totally honest about your story. And I never say, I hope this helps people because it feels like so banal, but I do hope this helps people.

Thank you. I appreciate it, Tucker. Thank you. We want to thank you for watching us on Spotify, a company that we use every day. We know the people who run it, good people. While you're here, do us a favor. Hit follow and tap the bell so you never miss an episode. We have real conversations, news, things that actually matter. Telling the truth always. You will not miss it if you follow us on Spotify and hit the bell. We appreciate it. Thanks for watching.