The Tucker Carlson Show - Dave Smith: Tim Walz, Trump vs. Rogan, and Who Is Really Running the Country?

Episode Date: August 13, 2024

Comedian Dave Smith returns to Tucker’s barn to discuss Tim Walz, the 2024 race, and why Biden staying in office is the biggest scandal in US history. (00:00) Everything That’s Happened Since Dave Smith’s Last Appearance (01:03) Dave Smith’s 2024 Predictions (08:37) Who Is the President Right Now? (12:43) The Greatest Scandal in American History (22:28) The Deep State Coming Out of the Shadows (36:34) The Trump Assassination Attempt (58:42) Jeffrey Epstein (1:14:42) What Should Trump Be Running On? Paid partnerships: Support the Heritage Foundation here: https://Heritage.org/Tucker Unplugged: Get $25 off a new phone with code "Tucker" at https://Unplugged.com/Tucker Download the Parler app: https://Parler.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome to the Tucker Carlson Show. We bring you stories that have not been showcased anywhere else. And they're not censored, of course, because we're not gatekeepers. We are honest brokers here to tell you what we think you need to know and do it honestly. Check out all of our content at TuckerCarlson.com. Here's the episode. My memory is fading. When were you here last? Well, I like to measure it in coups and assassination attempts. So I was here one coup and one assassination attempt ago.

So now it's the first week of, second week of August, and it feels like a different country. Yeah, isn't that something? Yeah, what's happened between May and now? An assassination attempt and a coup. Yes. That's for one. Olympics.

So basically the busiest period in American history, but we just sort of kind of forgot it all happened or something. It is really amazing. It is really, it's unbelievable. And I think that like both me and you, when I interviewed you on my podcast, which I don't remember when that was, but it was several months before I came out here.

And we were both kind of talking about how, you know, trying to make predictions about the rest of 2024 is difficult, but the one thing you know is it's going to be crazy. Like it's going to be something really wild. You could just feel that. And at this point, you're like, how do we even accelerate from here?

And I think we're going to, by the way. I think we've got several more crazy things to go before November. So to the extent you can predict them, we've got several more crazy things to go before November. So to the extent you can predict them, what do you foresee? It's so hard right now. I mean, I really have a tough time because this, I did not see this coming. I didn't see Kamala Harris being the person. It was always everyone who was speculating about.

No chance. She's too dumb. She's too unpopular we were like who's it going to be gavin newsom or hillary clinton or michelle obama and everybody every even in the corporate media in the moment when they admitted the emperor was naked yes after that debate even all of them were speculating about who the person yeah right exactly um even all of them were speculating about who it would be if Joe Biden dropped out and Kamala Harris was not the person because she's so, I mean, awful at this and deeply unpopular. Yes.

And so now they've switched into a new emperor's new clothes mode where there is this totally astroturfed fake, you know, Kamala Harris went from being the most unpopular vice president ever to a cultural phenomenon. The one thing this nation needed was more Kamala Harris. It's just, it's very bizarre to watch it. You know, I said this last time we were here that I always, I like to call them storms. Like when you're in the middle of a massive propaganda storm that I always love the example. And I mentioned this last time. I don't know why I just, this example, when Donald Trump said he was going to pull out of Syria, which he ultimately backed down on and didn't do. Yes. But, and for two weeks in the media, it was the Kurds. What about the Kurds? Our historic allies, the Kurds.

Yes, the Kurds. We never betrayed the Kurds before and we'll never do it again. My grandfather said to me on his deathbed in 1983, he goes, grandson, don't betray the Kurds. And then it's like, ever since then, no one's mentioned the Kurds. But do fight the Houthis. Yeah, right, right. That's right. It's so important. But it's all, but there's like these weird propaganda storms and then they kind of subside. And like now, so saying right now, if I were to say, you know, a lot of people who took the COVID vaccine got vaccine injured. There's no, there's no energy to that. It's not risking anything. It's not like, oh my God, my channel's going to get banned for saying a couple of years ago, that was a really risky

thing to say. Oh, I lived it. Yeah, because you were in that storm. So the storm right now is that Kamala Harris has this massive grassroots support. That's why when she ran for president in 2019, she had to drop out before Iowa. How many delegates did she get that year? It'll take us the whole show to count them up. But like, come on. I mean, look, however you feel about people, there's people I despise politically.

Sure. I cannot stand Bernie Sanders politically. I hate socialism or whatever he is. He's not exactly a socialist, but whatever he is, I hate it. But he had real grassroots support. For real. That's why they had to steal it from him. Yes, exactly. Tens of millions of Americans supported Bernie Sanders. Donald Trump, however you feel about him, has real grassroots support. Barack Obama, however you feel about him, had real grassroots support. You know what they all have in common? They didn't drop out before

Iowa because nobody with real grassroots support doesn't make it to the first contest. And Kamala Harris, it's not as if she was a Bernie Sanders or say like a Ron Paul or a Dennis Kucenich. She had major donors behind her. She took much of the Clinton campaign staff. I mean, she was touted by the corporate media

as like the candidate when she first announced in 2019. And still with all that, couldn't get to Iowa. So in other words, I think the whole Kamala Harris thing is fake. It's all astroturfed. I think if there was a real election today, I don't see how she could beat Donald Trump, but all of that, you know, is a... So maybe the... We don't know that that's going to happen. I don't think, of course that's not going to happen. But I wonder though, if the lesson is, maybe we've been taken in by this illusion that it's about people when really it's about machines, the machinery of the party system,

particularly the Democratic Party. And it just kind of doesn't matter what Kamala Harris is like, what her record is, what she believes, what she'll do or not do. She has no role in any of that. She's just a stand-in for the oligarchy. Yeah. I mean, we're going to... It does feel that way, though.

Yes. Well, it's an interesting... We're kind of running that experiment right now to see how fake it is or how little the people actually matter. I will say at least with Joe Biden, they proved they couldn't do it with him. He was too senile to be able to pull that off. So the machine, just like everything, right? Just like the US empire, governments in general, they're not gods. There are limits to their power. The question is like, can they pull this off? It's interesting to me. That is a really smart point. And I'm glad that you said that because it actually makes me feel better. Yeah. Well, that's, there are limits.

They're not omnipotent. Yes, that's right. Well, I mean, look, there's, there's lots of examples of that. Like every foreign policy decision in the last 20 plus years. Yes. Yeah. They actually can't do everything. They think that we can do a lot. I mean, we can take down nations. We can't build them.

We've learned that. That's right. But, you know, with Joe Biden, there was a really weird mix of things that happened. And one of them is that there is a kernel of truth, just a kernel of truth to the corporate media narrative, which is that obviously, you know, like me and you were talking, I think, at least since 2019 about Joe Biden's very obvious cognitive decline. It was very clear when he came back around after being vice president. Like if you listen to him back in 2016, when he made the decision not to run, he said it was because he wasn't over his son dying or whatever. But we know it was really because Obama pushed him out in favor of Clinton, even though it was kind

of his turn. Traditionally speaking, he was the vice president. But back then he kind of was Joe Biden. And then once he came back around running in 2019 it was like whoa this isn't joe biden anymore but the kernel of truth to the media narrative is that it's also true that it got drastically worse like it got whatever it was it went from being a thing where i mean i remember on your on your fox show in 2019 you'd be like playing these clips of him where he'd go, he'd get the state wrong. He was telling these weird stories. It was transparent.

It was very clear, but he was still a little bit like hit or miss. Like he'd have one speech where he kind of was okay. Then the next speech, ooh, he looks like he has dementia. You know, it was like whatever Joe Biden showed up and he did the debate. Did he do one or two debates in 2020? I think they, did they do two? I can't remember. I can't recall. But he got through them. I mean, Trump kind of talked over it. Trump made a real tactical error. Yes. And just dominated, whereas you want to let Joe Biden talk. As we learned. Yes. The muting the microphones really worked in Trump's favor in that debate. But lately, it's not like every other speech he's bad.

He can't pull off one. He can't pull off any interview. But is he still the president? Who is the president of the United States? Well, yeah, we don't have one. How strange is that? So this is what's crazy to me though, right? So if you look at, first of all, the distinction,

which I think should be obvious more and more to people, is that the distinction politically that matters right now is not left versus right. That is just not true. It's one thing that, man, it drives me crazy amongst Republican voters and even Republican leaders that they still want to see things in that distinction. They still want to go the far left, Nancy Pelosi or whatever. It's like, yeah, she's not really far left. It's a, she uses far left language, but these people, it's not, you know,

calling Kamala Harris a communist or whatever. And I know people were sending this clip. These are people who work for JP Morgan. Yes, they're not communists. They're for big business. And they're like, yeah, but were sending this clip. These are people who work for JP Morgan. Yes, they're not communists. They're for big business. And they're like, yeah, but look at this clip. She's talking about equality of outcomes. She doesn't even understand what that means.

It's not really communist. They're using leftist language. They're liberal. They're neoliberals who are for big business. So the distinction is not left or right. The distinction is like establishment versus dissident or um corrupt versus honest or something like that that's right that's why uh glenn greenwald is not on the opposition team to us and mitch mcconnell is our ally right it's not about that um but

so one of the that's for sure right so one of the things- That's for sure. Right. So one of the things that the establishment has, which is really something I've been marveling at lately, is they have unbelievable message discipline. Something that us, the dissidents, could never dream of having. I mean, it's just unbelievable. You know, you see some of like the compilations of the corporate media. It's just like, hey, they just,

hey, J.D. Vance is weird. That's the line this week. Tim Walls is a funk killer. Yes, everyone- Not weird at all, though. Well, look, my- Totally not weird. Well, my good friend, Michael Malice,

who you had on your Fox show, wrote the book on North Korea, and he's just really smart guy and hilarious and a great guy. But he pointed this out that, you know, when a few years ago, when Joe Rogan was taking ivermectin, his doctor prescribed him ivermectin. Is that the fish tank cleaner or the horse tranquilizer? I can't remember which one.

All of them, horse dewormer. There's a million different things that ivermectin does, yet they all picked horse dewormer and repeated that. And then, you know, you could look back, sharp as a tack. Joe Biden, sharp as a you could look back sharp as attack, Joe Biden, sharp as attack, sharp as attack. Everyone said this in private meetings. He's sharp as attack. This is people forget the shortest lived propaganda campaign ever, which was way back last month was a cheap fakes. Yeah. You remember for a week, Oh, you were told that there are these videos. They're kind of like deep fakes. What distinguishes them from deep fakes is that they're real videos. But you see, Tucker, they're trying to make it look like Joe Biden is old and senile, but that's all just bullshit or whatever. So they stay on message. They very

much stay on message. Whereas the MAGA movement has nothing like that. And part of that is because Donald Trump's at the top and Donald Trump doesn't stay on message. That's not how he works. He's a stream of conscious type thinker who goes on stage and doesn't even know what he's going to talk about. He figures it out while he's up there. There's something kind of endearing about that. But more fundamentally, one movement is about the individual. Right. And the other is about the collective. Absolutely. So the collective doesn't care about your opinion. Well, it's amazing, right? Just that even of these people

who work in places that you used to work and some places you didn't work, but like people in the New York Times or the Washington Post or CNN or NBC or CBS, that like all of them, at least in their own minds, still pretend to be journalists.

And yet they're somehow able to just repeat the talking point exactly verbatim as everyone else does. So anyway, my point is we don't want to be that because we don't want to all just be mindless drones. However, it's amazing to me that Donald Trump, none of his surrogates, no one on the pro-Trump side seems to be able to effectively hit Kamala Harris with what is the most obvious thing to hit her with. It's the greatest scandal in American history, which is like what you just said, that we don't have a president. The president of the United States, everybody has essentially admitted, is too senile to run for president. Yet he's going

to be president until January? We are in a proxy war with the biggest nuclear power in the history of the world, and we have another proxy war-ish type thing that looks to be devolving into a wider regional war in Israel, and we don't have a president. This is like the biggest scandal in the history of the republic, if we're a republic anymore. And Kamala Harris is directly implicated in this. She was one of the major people lying through her teeth that Joe Biden is sharp as a tack in private meetings. And it seems like somehow the Trump campaign has not been able to effectively hit her for this. It's like right there in front of us. You pulling Joe Biden out was admitting that he's too senile to run for president. And yet you're not invoking

the 25th amendment. This is what it's for. He clearly can't be president. And then what does it say about the machine that they're quite happy with that? That works very well for them. I mean, there are two levels in which it's upsetting. One is the practical level, which is you probably do want a commander-in-chief

if you're on the cusp of nuclear war, which we are. But the other is philosophical and speaks to whether our current system can continue. I mean, we're just admitting now that we don't have an executive, that we don't need an executive, that we are governed by an unelected body of people whose names we don't know, whose motives we don't understand. Like, what? That's sort of the what? And also, as we all know, the only reason they pulled Joe Biden is because it became clear he couldn't win. But if he could have won, they'd be quite happy to keep him in there.

Like, they like that. It's probably better that they don't have this guy who every now and then might think he's president of the United States of America. But why is there no curiosity about who they is? Yeah, well, that's a good question. I mean, and I can't answer that. I mean, I can't answer that. I mean, I think most people assume Obama

is at the top of that pyramid, but I can't confirm that. We don't know. I haven't heard really anybody in a position of authority ask, like, who does run the government? Yeah, and I don't know that there's an easy, I mean, I don't know the answer to that,

but I don't know that there is an easy answer. Kind of wild, right? I don't think it's Obama. I mean, I think Obama has influence, you know, but I don't think it's obama i mean i think obama has influence you know but i don't know how much obama really ran the government when he was president of the united states i don't you know i i certainly know that he he definitely at the very beginning got rolled by his generals um and i think that he you know i don't exactly know where he was on some of these issues, but at least with like what he ran on in terms of healthcare was not what Obamacare was at all. In fact,

if you remember way back in ancient history in 2008, Hillary Clinton was the one who was for the individual mandate. Of course. And he criticized her. I actually thought it was a great line he had in the debate. He was like, the individual mandate solves the health insurance crisis in the same way that mandating you buy a house solves the homelessness problem, which was like a great line. You can't afford to buy. But then that's what Obamacare ultimately was. And why is it? Oh, this is good for the insurance companies. So it's like, it seems to me like he was always getting rolled by what are the powerful interests, which are essentially big business that owns the government, uses the government as a tool to increase their profits. So I don't know.

I mean, I don't know who's really running things. Is it the director of national intelligence? Is it Biden's chief of staff? I don't know. I mean, I don't know who's really running things. Is it the director of national intelligence? Is it Biden's chief of staff? I don't know, but it's not Joe Biden. That's for sure. And Kamala Harris seems like kind of flotsam on the waves of history herself. Like she's not, is she making independent judgments and choices that are, is she driving her own narrative? I don't think so. I don't think she stands for anything. You know, I don't think, I think she's just like, I don't think there's one issue ever where it's like, no, she believes in this passion and she's going to, and she's going to stand up and try her best to make sure this goes through.

It's kind of like, you know, she was a, an aggressive prosecutor in California, but if she was a prosecutor right now in California, I'm sure she'd be one of these progressive prosecutors. It's just like, which way was the wind blowing? Is that the thing to get me more power? Well, how's this for crazy? Has there ever been a more volatile time in American politics? Not in our lifetimes. No one alive has ever seen anything like this. But long before things started to really fall apart, the Heritage Foundation saw it coming. Heritage has pulled together a coalition of over

100 right-leaning groups to develop a comprehensive plan for day one. That would include detailed policy proposals on the most pressing issues, the big ones, securing the border, controlling inflation, cracking down on election fraud, protecting the rights of the individual, and saving the nation from being crushed by woke anti-human ideology. The team at Heritage has also developed a plan to dismantle the deep state that keeps this nonsense going and reclaim this nation from the small group of technocrats that's broken everything. Heritage is also running a training and vetting program to identify effective conservatives to serve in the next presidential administration, people who will share your values,

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a metaphor for the way our leaders run this country. They're constantly telling you, everything is fine. Everything is fine. Don't worry. Everything's under control. Nothing to see here. Move along and obey. No one believes that. Crime is not going away supply chains remain fragile it does feel like some kind of global conflict could break out at any time so the question is if things went south tomorrow would you be ready well if you're not certain that you'd be ready you need ammo squared ammo squared is the only service that lets you build an ammunition stockpile automatically you literally set it on autopilot. You pick the calibers you want, how much you want to save every month,

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no matter who wins, does anybody believe that our system functions as advertised? I mean, do we know too much to sort of continue? It is, it's a good question. And, you know, I think that, I think our system has worked this way for a very long time. What's really drastically changed is that people have really woken up to it. It's a mix of several things, obviously, like the internet is a huge part of that and social media and stuff like that. And then also just the Trump phenomenon of the kind of the deep state coming out of the shadows to some degree, you know, and even, I know I've heard you talk about this, uh, the clip before, and I've played it a million times on my podcast, uh, but where, uh, Chuck Schumer was on with Rachel Maddow and he says that, which is amazing moment because if you

look, she, she goes off script and she asked, and she even says says before she asked the question, she goes, I don't mean to put you on the spot here, but president-elect Donald Trump, this is in January of 2016, he's won the election, but he's not president yet. He goes, president-elect Donald Trump was just tweeting, you know, whatever, talking shit to the CIA or whatever. And he just off the cuff in a real moment goes, I would not do that. It was like the most honest thing Chuck Schumer has ever said. It was amazing.

It was six ways to Sunday to get back at you. But I never really believed, I mean, I was an idiot, obviously. I didn't really believe any of that. I was hunting probably 10 years ago down in South Texas, right in the Rio Grande on somebody's ranch. And this guy comes out with a box about this big and an aerial, like a fiberglass line that went up and the end of it was connected to

a raccoon tail. And it was a coyote call and they turned this thing on and it made the sound of a dying animal, like just hard, like from the depths of Hades, these sounds. And then this tail would whip around in the air, like it's the weirdest thing I've ever seen in my life. And out of nowhere, within about three minutes, all these animals showed up. There was a big cat, all these coyotes. And I thought, that's kind of what Trump is. He's like a coyote call. Like he shows up and out of this landscape that looks desolate like nothing's going on all of a sudden the predators come out and you see for the first time that you were always surrounded yeah by these things they were always there you just didn't see them yeah

it's do you know what i mean yeah and i felt that way very much about the intel agencies like of course i applied to work at one i knew they were there um but I really had no idea the degree to which they were running everything. Well, I think that's exactly right. So, it's like, it's not, so like, say in like the 90s, when I was a kid, and if my parents, you know, had, you know, like they used to always have a Crossfire, was before you were on it, was the Pat Buchanan. Yeah, and Tom Braden. Yeah, they'd have that on or whatever. And they knew the CIA existed. It's not like they weren't aware.

And they were like, yeah, it's a super secret spy organization that does super secret spy stuff. Of course. They kind of knew that. Against their enemies. Right. But it was never like a thought like, okay, the presidential election between Clinton and Bob Dole is coming up. How much is theia just crafting the illusion of what we see in front of us that never would have been a thought now that's a thought that's

in a lot of people's minds about like the whole thing is fake there's a great quote uh that your uh cia guy had when you asked about the kennedy assassination it's such a great line because yes the government was involved it's all fake it's all fake that's the perfect line to describe but we know that i mean i think people know that they know that and that's why people everyone's going crazy and really getting down these rabbit holes i understand why but like how is that does that ever change like once you know this can you unknow it yeah that's a really good question and i don't think i don't think. I think that I don't think you can put that toothpaste back in the tube. I think ultimately that's probably, at least at this point, that's Trump's great accomplishment, you know, for better or worse. I think it's for

the better. I think it's better to know things, um, than to be in a state of ignorance, but that is, there is no getting away from it. And it's also, it's past the point, especially for Trump supporters. I think we're way past the point of them ever believing the system is real. Like even in 2020, if let's just say hypothetically that the election was completely on the up and up, and there was no fraud involved in the election at all. Mark Zuckerberg didn't spend $400 million. Well, no, but that, what I'm saying, that stuff we know is real, right? Even the Time magazine piece that they ran. Yes.

So, if you had a guy in Donald Trump, where the entire media class and political class told you that it cannot be this guy. And not just like your opposition, like Mitt Romney, the former, the last nominee before him said, anyone but this guy, everyone said, you can't have this guy. And the voters decided, no, we want this guy. This is who we want. And so they framed him for treason, framed the sitting US president for treason with a foreign hostile power that completely collapsed. It's weird. You don't hear anything about that anymore, right? Isn't that just that in itself so crazy that Vladimir Putin's plant is possibly going to be president again and no one in the media is even mentioning that as a thing and yet also not apologizing? How can you do neither of those things? How can you either say like, oh, Russia's like, they're not, how can you do neither of those things?

How can you either say like, oh, Russia's about to have control of the White House again, or hey, we were wrong about that whole Russia having control of the White House thing. But anyway, so they frame him for treason. They impeach him twice. They raid his home in Mar-a-Lago. They, you know, all these things that happen. How would you ever, after that, if Trump loses, let's say, how would any Trump supporter ever accept that this was real?

That he had a real, you know what I mean? That our team actually lost and your team actually won. It's always going to be viewed as like what it is. So you made such a smart point at breakfast, which I wish we had filmed because it was great. But about how there's no effort by the establishment in Washington, both parties, to win over people who support Trump. There's no effort to convince them, to cajole them. It feels like the people who run the country actually hate a lot of the country for real. Yeah. And there's, I was thinking about this. I recently rewatched

Pat Buchanan's speech from the 1992 convention, which was an amazing speech. And he was a speech writer for Nixon. He was really, really good at writing speeches. You know, like that was

kind of his thing. And it got, the media flipped out about it. They called it the culture war speech and all this. I remember. It wasn't like really that culture war-y really,

but there was this one point where he said something along the lines of, he was talking about being on the campaign trail he had run and challenged George H.W. Bush and this was him coming back in to throw his supporters behind H.W. A mistake in my opinion, but he gave a great speech regardless.

But he said at one point that he was out there, you know, when he was talking to people who were really struggling as he was, you know, there's some woman who was talking about how she lost her job and they were going to maybe take her kid away from her. And then there was some guy who worked at a plant that was going to close down. And he was like, please save our jobs. And he's kind of like touching moments. And his message to the Republicans was like, look, like these people are our people. They're our fellow countrymen. And we have to like, we have to get back in touch with them. And he said at one point, he goes, they don't expect miracles from us, but they have to at least know that we care. Like that's, that's kind of, and it's

amazing how little it takes, you know, like one of the things about this, uh, uh, Walt's guy, which he is, one of the things that I think is one of the reasons why they picked him is that he at least gets that you're supposed to talk about issues that maybe regular people might care about, you know? And it almost, this is why some of these old distinctions aren't as meaningful anymore. I mean, don't get me wrong. Like I'm for laissez-faire free markets. I'm a libertarian. I do not like socialism. But at least someone like Bernie Sanders is talking about like your healthcare costs or take home pay. Why do the banks have all the power? Yeah. Yeah.

Things that like kind of matter. Whereas like the corporate media is totally obsessed over like January 6th. Climate change. Climate change, racism, even like democracy in this kind of weird abstraction, the way they talk about it. It's like,

but no one's like, it's like, you know what people care about is like price inflation. Like groceries are 30% more expensive. That's like a big deal. And so anyway, I think the Pat Buchanan point was like, you got to at least give them something, just something, try to do something for these people. And it would, I would think it would take very little.

I mean, like, I think I've heard you say this before, where it's just kind of like, all right, you guys get your wall. You know what I mean? Like, you know, okay, Donald Trump won, and all you guys wanted to build. Okay, so we're going to build a wall. Because like, it's kind of a symbol that you still have a little bit of say in how the country is run. And we're going to give you that and maybe like two other little things. And we're going to keep all of the profits that we're raking in. You know, it's like something. They don't want to offer any deal to the Trump supporters to try to pull them back in to this system. And that is very creepy to me. Well, it's ominous too, because if you don't care what people think, well, first of all,

in a democracy, you're required to care what they think. So, you know, I guess we can settle that question. No, it's not a democracy or even a republic. But if you don't care, then you can kind of do, there's no limit to what you can do to them yeah well that's right that's right and and but also even whether it democracy or not um because obviously we're not a democracy and obviously we're not a republic whereas we're an oligarchy that's a world empire and that's that's really how you would describe America. But even in an authoritarian dictatorship, there's limits to what you can do to your people. You know, I mean, there's like,

you have to at least convince them that you're doing something on behalf of them. Otherwise, people won't put up with it anymore. It requires a lot of force to rule in a true autocratic way. And even in Middle Eastern theocracies, I've seen it, you know, the king or the crown prince or the guy in charge takes the temperature of the country every, in the UAE, every week, you know, the head of the country has to sit there while people from the provinces come in and complain to him in his house. Right.

And it's, it's not just a kabuki, like they're they're you know you have to keep in touch with what people want and you sort of have to deliver some percentage of it or at least pretend you are right yeah yeah you would think so i mean it's kind of like right in in a friendship or a marriage or a business or anything well they're just like how about some more suffering and degradation for you i would like a little more of that yeah and that And that makes, it makes me worry about what happens if she wins. Yeah. Well, um, me too. Although there's, um, you know, I, I think, I think, um, like Trump supporters and people who are, uh, who are, I think truly dissidents of, of this regime have to, you know, look, like I said, we're never going to have the message discipline

of the establishment and that's okay. We don't want that. I think we do have to be wiser about like, how exactly are we going to attack this thing? You know, like I'm, I'm, uh, like, uh, I'm a hardcore libertarian and there's, that's a very small group of people in this country. There's, there's some, you know, but there's not that many. No, we can't, you know, and there's that's a very small group of people in this country there's there's some you know but there's not that many no we can't you know now there's enough that like donald trump came to the libertarian convention because it's it's a election presidential elections are close these days and any little block like helps but if you're talking about like trump supporters it's okay hey you got tens of millions of people in this country and you could see where,

look, there's real lessons to be learned from last year's, the boycotts of Target and Bud Light. Just in that, forget even like politics, just in terms of being consumers. Hey, look at the power you guys have. If you decide to do something, you can really do something and you can change the direction of the culture, the direction of the country. But you got to be really smart about when you decide to do it and who you decide to go after. And man, it was frustrating to me to see like, so Donald Trump gets shot in the head, you know, does this. And it's the reason why he's alive. If he hadn't done that, his brains are blown out on national television. Now, what we know about this, and obviously there's a lot more to uncover, but let's just say best case scenario, it was a wild failure. A failure that you really can't

even imagine. Have you seen some of the videos? This kid is walking around and scoping out the area for over an hour before he's there. He's allowed to be on a roof that's 150 yards away from the former president of the United States of America. People on the ground are screaming. This guy's got a gun. And so, okay.

So like- But Joeiden's employees allowed it right joe biden yes yes they're exactly employees and and also take into account all the other things that they've done to this guy and then they allowed this to happen yes and two weeks later all of right-wing twitter is up in arms about some trannies in the opening ceremony of the Olympics. And it's like, guys, focus. Like, you know, like, come on, man. I don't like that stuff either. And I think it's awful that they're shoving that in everyone's face and that shouldn't have been at the opening ceremonies, but Hey, no, no, no, no, no, no. Outrage is a finite resource, just like everything else. And we are outraged about this thing, you know, like not that we're outraged about this. And all it would take would

be a little bit of focus. Okay. We're not going to have the message discipline of the corporate media, but like just a little bit of focus from the dissonance to just like pick like four things that we're going to focus on all of our energy like that. We're getting the bottom of that assassination attempt. What the hell happened there? there you know they could do it we could figure that out this isn't this isn't kennedy where we have one you know film that we have to all rely on we got a bunch of different camera angles we got we can track this kid's cell phone we could do all types of different things and like to me the man, my first message to every like America first type or even like, or the Glenn Greenwald, like true leftists or anyone who's kind of a dissident of this regime. It's like the rule is we only support America first nonventionist candidates. And anybody who has anything to say to you about war with Iran is your enemy. You're not on their side and you're not supporting them. You will not support Lindsey

Graham. You know, how the hell, let a Democrat get in. Who cares? Is it any worse than Lindsey Graham? No. It would be much better. Probably better. Of course, because it's more straightforward. I completely agree with you, completely. And it's, and it is the neocons. It's all the Republican Senate committee chairman. It's Lindsey Graham. It's Mitch McConnell. It's all the creepy, uh, war worshipers who will immediately on every other issue, whip around and betray you. Yeah, no, that's exactly right. They're fundamentally corrupt and you just don't agree with them. And, you know, maybe some of them are nice people. I haven't met any, but I'm sure that they exist. But, yeah, they shouldn't be in the coalition.

But to the assassination, it seems like, you know, the difference between, you know, climate change or equity or systemic racism and assassination is bullets are real. We can measure their trajectory. We can measure their effect. We saw it on video. Like, that's actually real in the way that war is real. Violence is real. And so, that's got to be at the top position of concern, right? Oh, yeah, 100%. I don't understand how we could just have lied right past that.

Yeah, yeah. What do you think actually happened? You know, I got to say, it's just, it looks like it is what it obviously is. Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, I just, I don't know. Like, I don't know enough to prove the case. I did see there was, I can't remember who, somebody at the Blaze who had, they had reported that, you know, because, you know, it's not just the government who's tracking your phones.

It's like a million, every app is tracking your phones. Of course, yeah, you can buy the geolocation. Yeah, so they had a phone from the shooter's house that had gone to D.C. Yeah. And been at this spot that's like known to be where FBI FBI meets with their informants and stuff like that. Yeah, right down the road from FBI headquarters. Yeah. What are we looking at here?

And then, of course, you know, I mean, it's like, look, let's just say there's a serial killer in a neighborhood, and they've killed like 11 people, and then there's a 12th person who's dead, and you see that serial killer leaving their house on video. It's like, okay, I'm not saying that's maybe not enough evidence to go to a court of law and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this person killed them. But I mean, if we're all just looking at that, we're like, I'm pretty sure.

My starting assumption is going to be that guy did it. You know what I mean? And it's just every... Listen, you predicted this a year ago. Yeah, it was pretty obvious. We're obviously on the trajectory to ending an assassination. Follow the trend line. Yeah, it's not hard. And so then when it happens, it is pretty difficult to not go, all right.

I mean, because if it's not that, then you're saying, okay, so what explains this guy being a block away from the FBI building? What explains the fact that this was allowed to happen? I mean, it's just so, it's so hard to understand what other explanation there could be. The Biden administration clearly planted or allowed the planting of, but I think they clearly did plant pipe bombs on the morning of January 6th in front of the DNC and the RNC. Kamala Harris was at the DNC that morning. I mean, I think that's shown. Yeah.

And then nobody cares. You were the only guy in cable news who would repeatedly bring this up. Literally nobody else. Nobody else is even interested in what the hell was that? Most of us, well, actually all of us, go through our daily lives using all sorts of, quote, free technology without paying attention to why it's quote free who's paying for this and how think about it for a minute think about your free email account the free messenger system used to chat with your friends the free other weather app or

game app you open up and never think about it's all free but is it no it's not free these companies aren't developing expensive products and just giving them to you because they love you they're doing it because their programs take all your information they hoover up your data private personal data and sell it to data brokers and the government and all of those people who are not your friends are very interested in manipulating you and your personal political and financial decisions. It's scary as hell. And it's happening out in the open without anybody saying anything about it. This is a huge problem. And we've been talking about this problem to our friend, Eric Prince, for years. Someone needs to fix this.

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Identity Guard protects you. 30-day free trial at exclusive discount at identityguard.com slash Tucker. Protect yourself before it's too late. Identityguard.com slash Tucker. you gotta pay close attention don't let the three card money thing distract you yeah you know the moving walnut shell just remember what you care about is who's got the guns yeah yeah watch the guns that's why i think we don't pay any attention at all to what's happening in the United States military, which is clearly wildly politicized. That's not accidental. It's not ideological. It's practical.

Yeah. You suborn the people with guns. You control the people with guns. And then you have power because it's out of the barrel of a gun. The political power grows, right? Yeah. Right.

So I don't know why no one is focused on that stuff. But if the Secret Service, heavily armed federal agency, is a political tool, then, I mean, then it's like you really have to rethink the terms. 100%. And to your point about the three-card Monty thing is like what I was saying about the Olympic opening ceremonies, right? Is that there are like, there are these things that are clearly done to trigger right-wingers of course like this is we're just doing the thing that makes the the conservative dna's blood boil right and so like okay be aware of that now i'm not even i'm not saying that there's not a point where that is necessary to

fight again like you know if they're if they're coming after children or something like that and or teaching like this garbage to kids okay no listen No, listen, I get it. That is something that's worth, uh, that's worth dying over. You know what I mean? And I'm not suggesting anybody do anything illegal or commit. I'm just saying that like someone coming after your children is something, okay, that must be fought. But, um, but also just at least recognize that like, yes, this is a tactic. It's a distraction tactic to get you caught up in the latest outrage of the day. And then also to look crazy to normal people, you know, so like they're like to someone who's in the middle or maybe someone who's like, you know, kind of a more liberal person,

but they're not part of an evil cabal. They're just, you know, grew up in Brooklyn or whatever. It's like they just see right where it's like, man, these guys are like obsessed over like whether there was a dude in a dress at the opening ceremony like that. It's much easier to dismiss you. Whereas if you're like relentlessly focused on something that really matters, it's much more difficult. And so that's a big part of it, right? Like, yeah, don't get distracted by the three card Monty. And then to your point, I think that about like who controls the guns, I think that's also a big part of the reason why they've been so triggered by the Trump movement in general is also because Donald Trump is leading

a right-wing populist movement. And that's very scary to elites. Because it's armed. It's armed and tough. Yeah. You know, I mean, like a left-wing populist movement. Right. And that's very scary to elites. Because it's armed. It's armed and tough. Yeah. You know, I mean, like a left-wing populist movement. They should be afraid. Yeah. I hope they are afraid.

Yeah, no, I think that's right. And, you know, I was talking about this. I was down with Candace Owens. I just did her podcast last week, and I was talking about this. But it's not, like, they're not a fan

of left-wing populism either. They hate it. Yeah, no, they don't like it. They don't i mean we went to war with russia to hide the fact that they rigged the primaries against bernie sanders a left-wing populist like that's that's right right and there's a reason why they rigged the election against bernie sanders there's a reason why he was unacceptable to them um but not they didn't freak out quite the way they did over Donald Trump. And I think a lot of that's because if you look at the people in Bernie Sanders' movements... What are they going to do about it?

Yeah. Like, okay, you've gotten all of the male feminists together. Okay. Good luck with that overthrowing power. However, when you get every barrel-chested man in America, every gun enthusiast, every outdoorsman, and also a ton of cops and military, which by the way, I think kind of explains

what you're talking about with the politicizing of the military. It's been, and that was a big part of what the VAX mandate was too. Absolutely. We got to get some of these guys out of here. They're afraid of testosterone and they want to identify who's got it in abundance and they want to isolate and punish those people. mandate was too. We got to get some of these guys out of here. They're afraid of testosterone and

they want to identify who's got it in abundance and they want to isolate and punish those people. That's why they're against nicotine. That's why walls raise the taxes on nicotine pouches. Of course, they're not carcinogen. There's no evidence, by the way, that nicotine is a carcinogen. It's not that we know of. It's all a lie. And what they hate about nicotine is it raises testosterone levels. They even suppress that fact. That's a fact on Google. Google nicotine and testosterone and see how many results

it takes you to get to the core truth, which is yes, nicotine use raises testosterone levels. Man, it is way, way down. And that's not an accident. They're afraid of testosterone. Yeah. No, listen, 100%. That's like completely right. And that's not an accident. They're afraid of testosterone. Yeah. No, listen, 100%.

That's completely right. And even on top of, even like, say, cigarettes, where there certainly is some evidence that cigarettes are very bad for you. There's overwhelming evidence. Yeah, they are. You shouldn't smoke cigarettes,

although it is cool. It's really cool. I miss it. Vaping is so lame. Every time I do it, I wish I was just smoking a cigarette. But anyway, okay. Trade-offs. Exactly. Trade-offs makes my wife just smoking a cigarette but anyway it's okay but the trade-offs

exactly trade-offs makes my wife happier so okay it's worth it um but uh you know it's like i travel the country a lot because i'm a stand-up comic i'm on the road all the time and it's like look there's no question way less people smoke now than used to it's like okay that worked it turns out economic incentives do work do you tax something you get less of it than you otherwise would that's why it's so work. Do you tax something? You get less of it than you otherwise would. That's why it's so great that we tax income. And you get less of that than you otherwise would. But so, but I go all throughout this country and like, yeah, people don't smoke as much as they used to, but everywhere you go, it's just Arby's, McDonald's, Burger King.

You know, it's like, it's not, It's not like health is really the concern here. So like what is actually the concern? Well, public health has gotten much worse in the last 30 years. Oh, so you don't have a problem with people being lethargic and obese. You have a problem with them smoking cigarettes. So what explains that? And I think you just explained it. It's the same reason they don't like the AR-15

because it's a visible sign of your autonomy. Right, exactly. And they hate that. It's the same reason they don't like the AR-15 because it's a visible sign of your autonomy. Right. And they hate that. It's a threat to their control. No, I couldn't agree more. So Tim Walz, just to descend into the political for a second, what do you make of that pick? How's that

going? You know, I was somewhat surprised by it. I didn didn't think i would have bet money shapiro was getting it yeah i i thought um until i mean they kind of sent the signals over the last couple weeks that he was out but i was assuming mark kelly was going to be the guy because he's uh from what i understood you they were friendly with harris he's got kind of this thing where like um his wife was shot and he's an astronaut. And there is just something about that. That's like, you kind of like can't help, but like, it is an archetype of like a, of a guy who's appealing and also because, uh, he's in

Arizona. Um, so I just thought he was the obvious choice. Um, the Shapiro thing, I think evidently came down to him just being like too ambitious and kind of like, Kamala Harris can't really have someone around her. You know what I mean? You just can't because she's so unimpressive. He wasn't beta enough. Yeah, well, that's right. And then I guess this guy fit that mold.

I do. My initial impression is not somebody I knew much about until this last week. But my initial impression is that, uh, he's also very unimpressive, um, and that he's not particularly bright. And he, he does, at least as I mentioned, he does at least seem to understand that you got to try to talk about stuff that people actually care about. And he understands that we live in a populist moment. So he's trying to be kind of a populist or present himself that way. But again, I just think the thing is, I think it's totally

fake and astroturfed. And the idea that we're supposed to pretend that he has... Remember when they were like, Beto O'Rourke has the it factor. It's just so, what are you talking about? He was the best. What world are you living in where you look at that guy and you go, man, just dripping with charisma. It's like, so they're doing that right now. And this is just totally anecdotal and I don't know what it means, but I have personally, I've gotten like 30 text messages about donating to Democrats in the last two weeks. And I've never donated to,

no, I donated to Tulsi Gabbard when she was running in 2019. It was because it was like the thing where you needed individual donations to make the debate stage. And I just wanted her on the debate stage for the, so, but I'm, and so, I mean, they're, they're doing all types of, uh, maneuvering to give the impression that there's, you know, enthusiasm and support for these guys and including things like having, I don't know, I'm, I'm out of touch and all that, but having like all these like rappers or whatever at her event. So you get a bunch of people who are like going to see, you know, the rapper and then you go, look at all these people coming to Kamala Harris's event.

They have all of their like techniques uh that they use i just i i think it's it's fake all of that walls guy i mean i don't want to be too unfair because i don't know him and i don't have any hard evidence he's he's a weirdo that guy's weird he seems very sorry there's something not right about that guy's personal life um so i hope i'm wrong because I don't want people like that with power. But most people I know with power in Washington have personal lives who would not withstand scrutiny at all. But I think that. But I can't get past the core fact about Walls, which is he presided over, allowed the biggest city in the state to get burned down. And seemed to not only allow it, but kind of support it.

Do you see the video of his wife saying, I kept the windows open so I could smell the burning rubber from the riots? I did not see that. The wife whose hand he shook? Oh my God. By the way, I mean, I know it's picking on a little thing, but who the hell shakes their wife's hand? Well, Kamala Harris and her fake husband kissed each other with masks on.

I mean, what? It's just so, I guess, look, I think I'm pretty libertarian on the part I am. I mean, I've been in TV my whole life. I know a lot of people with weird personal lives. I'm not a judger at all. Yeah, sure. However, if everybody in power has some sort of weird celibate you know mitch mcconnell and his wife and kamala harrison her husband is tim wall's guy like there's just

no chance these are normal marriages at all that's not good yeah and people were bad and they were they were jumping on uh on jd vance uh for i think it was with you uh i think it was an old clip where he was just talking about about all these childless people making decisions for the country. And look, I'm not, again, I'm with you on that. I'm not judging people. I don't think, there are some people who shouldn't have kids. It's the best thing

I've ever done, but I certainly think there are people who wouldn't make very good parents. There are people who are very bad parents who probably would have been better off not being parents. I'm not for mandatory childbearing. But come on on there is something to be said for like i kind of would like a lot of our leaders to like yeah just be in a marriage where they love their wife and they have some kids i think it gives you some stakes that you really can't get any other way um and yeah there's just it is there is no question, it is very, very bizarre people

who seem to disproportionately rise to the top. And it's so obvious that they're bizarre. I mean, I look at this Walls guy and I'm like, again, I don't know. I don't have a police report

that I'm not sharing or something, but that guy, not babysitting my kids. Like, no way. Yeah. No way. Which is what's so strange about them going with the line of J.D. Like, no way. Yeah. No way. Which is what's so strange about them going with the line

of J.D. Vance being weird. Like, I understand they're in, like, a little bit of a pickle where they're like, okay, they have to find rhetoric. You know, Trump just got shot. So they have to kind of pull back

on, like, the Nazi stuff. Right. Because it's not really working and also it's really hard to say you're not kind of... You know, it's really hard to be like, oh, the right-wingers are inciting violence when they say fake news.

But like, we're not inciting violence when we say that democracy is on the line unless this guy's taken out, you know? But it's like weird. You're using the word weird. You're the party of freaks. I know. Like, what are you talking about?

How are you going to, how is weird weird gonna be a pejorative for you when you're literally sitting here going you see that that dude with a beard and a dress that's a beautiful woman and then you could call someone else weird it's just so it is every accusation is an admission right um but i also think it's just i don't want to go on too much, but I don't know, I don't want to be mean, but it's interesting. I've always thought this was so strange, especially in the Democratic Party.

You know, they're always telling you that, you know, gay is great. It's better to be gay. We love gays. We're celebrating Stonewall. Okay, fine. But then there's so many people in the Democratic Party

who are closeted, including in, you know, positions of real power. I know them. I don't believe in outing people, and I'm not going to. But I know that for a fact. And it's like, on what grounds are you hiding it, actually? That's too much.

I can't. I also have absolutely nothing against gay people. I do have an issue with people living a lie. Well, kind of, yeah. Because there's something about, it's also not just lying with people living a lie. Well, kind of, yeah. Because there's something about, it's also not just lying, but living a lie is like a, it's a profound thing where you get used to every inch of your existence

being a lie. The very nature of who you are is a lie. And that just obviously leads to like people who have the ability to totally lie about who they are exactly that i do have an issue with nicely put and there's so much of it i can't get over it i'm not saying that as like a blue nose or and even as a as a judgment on the morality of it but i mean i just find it so striking like how many people like that are there in Washington? It's wildly disproportionate, wildly. Even compared to like San Francisco or some libertine place like that or the West Village, there are freakier personal lives in DC. I just

find that really, really telling. I don't know what it means exactly, but it has to with lying. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. And I don't exactly know either. I mean, I do think that like, um, look, as we've kind of learned like a bit from the Jeffrey Epstein thing. And, you know, I,

I guess we're, you know, so we find out that there's this, um, this, uh, child pedophile blackmail ring that, uh,

was pretty clearly involved a foreign country um and it's going around compromising uh political leaders and influential people and i guess we're supposed to pretend like that must have been the only one and it's over now i mean we never got to the bottom of it and sure all of the cameras malfunctioned and the guy committed suicide and we never get the client list and we never get any of this information. And the sitting attorney general of the United States, Barr, covered it up, lied to cover it up, which he did. Yep. That's right. And I've said that a bunch of times. And every time he tells someone I know that, you know, that's outrageous, he complains. And I hope he'll sue me over that because it's true. Let's to discovery 100 bar lied about it right and so okay why what was that right well that's the big question and

then like what is what is still going on i mean obviously there were people above jeffrey ebstein involved in it and obviously there if you were doing something like that you wouldn't only have one you know what i mean like exactly and so you do it does at least make you wonder like oh is it is it possible that people who obviously people who can be blackmailed are very easy to control and so oh why would it be that there there are so many people in in powerful positions who have these secret weird personal personal lives. And I think, plausibly, part of that explanation is because, like, well, okay, then they're very easy to blackmail. You can control them. Do you ever think about your own life in these terms?

Like, you're one of the people who will just say what you think is true, period. And you're always punching up, not down, always. Yeah. And I don't know, there's a non-trivial risk to that. Do you ever consider that as the father of small children? Yeah. Yeah. No, I've definitely thought about it before. And I guess like, I don't know, I guess because of the world that I'm in, which is like totally removed from the world of power, you know, like I've never been in DC and I've never been in, you know, and I'm like in, I'm in comedy clubs and then just doing podcasts on the internet.

So I guess I feel a little bit removed from the threat as like my profile has gotten bigger. It's something I think about more. I just, I don't know. I kind of like can't stop. I, I'm just, I, I don't know. Listen, man, if it ever really came down, like if my kids were ever threatened, you could, by the way, it's anybody CIA, if you're listening or whatever, I would, I would protect them first and foremost. I would totally, you know, whatever I had to do, I would do that. Daddy's going to shut up now. Yeah.

Yeah. If I ever felt like that was really, threat, or my wife, for that matter. But I do just think that it's something that's kind of hard to describe. What I do is, this is my calling in life. It's just what I'm supposed to do. And my greatest heroes, all of them, first and foremost, I was talking to you about before,

is Ron Paul. And he always just told the truth. Even when it was like something that would get him booed out of an arena or something that would be like very controversial and that would make him look bad. That was just his thing. And those are the people I admire, you know? And I feel like you do that. It's something I admire about you. I feel like Joe Hogan does that. Yeah, but I'm older, so it doesn't matter. But you got to wonder like the Epstein, I did not take the Epstein murder, which it was a murder, not a suicide, seriously at all.

And then I spent a lot of time learning about it and talking to his brother Mark about it and I think becoming something of an expert on it. He was murdered. But then you have to think, well, he was murdered not in his bedroom or on West 57th Street. He was killed in the special housing unit of federal lockup in Manhattan, like the most, like the inner sanctum of the vault. Yeah. So, okay. Then the next, I guess, conclusion would have to be anyone with the power to do that can pretty much do anything in this temporal world, right? So that's a pretty formidable, whoever did that, and we could, you know, I have theories on it, but can't prove it, but somebody did it. And those are the people that like, maybe you shouldn't

criticize. Right? Yeah. I mean, there's certainly, there's a point to that. There's also, you know, I also, you know, it's like having little kids. Like I also, I have a son and I do feel an enormous pressure um to um to be an example for him and and to be a man yeah it was a pressure i never felt until i had a son um maybe that's the sexist in me i mean i just didn't feel that same pressure with my my daughter um as my wife is also like she's so great that i always just kind of felt when we our first was a daughter and I always felt when I had her, I was like, oh, like, uh, I was like, okay, my job is pretty easy. It's actually, because I know at first I know she's a great, uh, like role model to her. She's like, it just an unbelievable example of, of being a great woman.

So she's gotten basically what I have to do is like, you know, protect her and provide for her and love her. And that's really comes, actually comes very natural. You're not teaching your daughter how to become a woman. Right. Exactly. Not your job. And then when we had a son, it like kind of hit me like, oh, I have to teach him how to be a man. So I better figure out how to be a man real quick. And then I can teach this to my boy, you know? That's exactly right. But I think one of the foundational things about being a good man is telling the truth. And even when there's some risk involved in that. So I do also feel like kind of a pressure that it's like, well, no, then those are the people that are

exactly who I should be criticizing and talking about. Now, as far as, you know, I would just say my only pushback on what you said is that it's not, yes, they can touch someone in, you know, a secure prison. So that's certainly something they demonstrate they have the ability to do. Also, I don't know that it was ever supposed to get to that point. And I don't know that we're supposed to know about it. And we're supposed to be having this conversation right now. So clearly it didn't go exactly according to plan, right? That's such a smart point.

So that's the kind of silver lining in all of it we hear a lot from viewers about big tech censorship and those reports are more frequent than ever right now censorship meaning shutting down your access to information not lies or misinformation but true things it's only the truth that they censor. Facts that get in the way of the lies they're trying to tell you. The net effect of this, of course, is interfering in the 2024 presidential elections. That's why they're censoring more than ever now, because the stakes are even higher. You're probably not shocked by this, but the specific examples of it do throw you back a little bit. We've seen screenshots and videos showing how a Google search to learn more about the attempted assassination on Donald Trump instead push users to information on Harry Truman or Bob

Marley or the Pope. Anything other than the relevant truth, which is that they just shot Trump in the face. They don't want you to know that because it might help Trump. We've seen examples where Facebook marked true photos of a bloodied and defiant Trump as misleading. Somehow those pictures were a lie and then limited their visibility. Its AI assistant explicitly denied the shooting ever took place. This is insanity, but it's at the core of big text editorial policy, which is denying the truth to you in order to control the outcome of this presidential election. It's not democracy. We've seen examples where a generic search for information about Donald Trump was automatically rephrased to show positive stories about Kamala Harris instead. Is there any clear example of election interference?

So what do you do about it? Well, Parler has been down this road. Parler was pulled right off the internet for telling the truth. But it's back, and it's reaffirmed its lifelong unwavering commitment to free speech. On Parler, the Bill of Rights lives. The First Amendment is real. You can say what you think

because you're a human being and an American citizen and not a slave. On Parler, users can freely express themselves, tell the truth, express their conscience, and connect with others who are doing the same, and they will not be interfered with. They will not be censored. Designed to support a wide range of viewpoints, everyone is welcome on Parler. Parler is committed to ensuring that everybody is heard.

And so it's become a place where independent journalism is protected and respected. It's protected because it's respected. So as this censorship by big tech intensifies, standing up for your God-given right as an American to say what you think is essential. We're on Parler. That's why we're on Parler. Our handle is at Tucker Carlson, and we encourage you to join us there.

You have the right to say what you believe. So does every American. And you can do it on Parler. Get the Parler app today. So if you're trying to figure out what the U.S. will look like, you know, next year, 2026 and into the future, worst case is kind of what's happening in the U.K. right now, it seems like. Yeah.

Yeah, that's pretty bad. I mean, people getting arrested for Facebook posts? Yeah. And this is why, like, you know, people, especially particularly like the dissidents that, that I was talking about, like, you really got to be smart in the way that you fight these things. And so, you know, like I, uh, I was talking about when there was, um, there was one, uh, one of Donald Trump's like, uh, trials, there was a big, like kind of group, uh, of Trump supporters who

were outside protesting. And I remember I tweeted that day and I was like, hey, dear Trump supporters, if you happen to see a barrel chested man outside screaming, storm the courthouse, just go ahead and don't storm the courthouse. It's like, let's just like, let's be smart about the way you try to go about this that's right you do not this is an asymmetrical conflict you do not want uh you know a conflict you do not want to you don't want a conflict in the sense of like let's let's storm the capital how's that going to work out for you okay no this is just going to be the excuse now of course which obviously the thing was an inside job to a large

degree. Can we just establish that anybody who screamed, let's storm the Capitol, I can think of two people who did, who was not arrested, didn't spend time in jail. Was defended by Democrats in the Congress. Yes. But he wasn't alone. There's another prominent person who did that as well, as I know you know, didn't get arrested, didn't go to jail i i mean what can we conclude from that yes and all of the and and just you know the um the the stuff where you uh you interviewed the head of uh steve sun yeah right and so i mean all just all of the things together you can kind of obviously see what it was um but that so you don't want you don't want to, you don't want to riot. You don't want to do things like that because then that would be an excuse for our government to do exactly

what the government in the UK is doing right now, right? It was cracked down on Facebook posts or whatever, you know? And so you don't want to fight it that way. But, you know, I do believe like this, this country can still be saved or it could be a lot less worse than the possibilities are. The, the country has been in very bad points before, not exactly the same as where we are right now. What's, what's, what's scary about the current position is that it's, it's all of these factors plus the financial realities. They kind of create this weird super storm of things where it's a cultural phenomenon, a political phenomenon, and then it's also just like a debt and derivatives and bonds and things that are all completely unsustainable.

But I do think that, like I was saying, we have a big opportunity if we could really just focus and kind of get people who we have these giant platforms like this show. It's really incredible. I don't think you can overstate how amazing it is that like the dynamics have shifted technologically and culturally to the point where, say, someone like, okay, so Bill O'Reilly, obviously a very different person than you, and was never a critic of the regime in the meaningful way that you were at Fox News. But he was the number one cable news show at the 8 p.m. hour at Fox News. And they fired him him and he largely went away i know he still got his show he still got a little bit of an audience um but he's not really involved in the national conversation anymore like bill o'reilly was like moving the national

conversation at one point like many many years like his his opinion was going to have significant influence over a large portion and they were able to like get rid of him. You, on the other hand, were the number one show on cable news, the 8 p.m. hour.

They go, we're going to do the same thing to you and you're like many times bigger than you were. That's a crazy thing. That's like, that signals something that's totally different about the dynamics here. Well, that's primarily a technology change, I think.

That's certainly a big part of it. It's also probably has something to do with you having a younger audience than him because Bill O'Reilly's audience was much older and it's much tougher to get that audience to go over to the internet. I think that's right. They just don't understand it as much. And it's a different moment. Yes, yes.

Television is just, it's obviously on its way out anyway. So my timing was, not that I was in charge of it, but it turned out to be good. No, I mean, obviously, look, a lot of it was things that you were in control of. A lot of it was things that you weren't. Mostly not in control of. Sure. But the fact that we've got these kind of like alternative platforms now, which really aren't even alternative.

I mean, this is kind of the mainstream. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? It's not, Brian Stelter ain't the mainstream. You know what I mean? It's like, so it's you and Rogan and Candace Owens' show is like taken off and there's all these like big shows. Yes.

And so, okay, we've got a new tool in our, in our disposal here. And you know, it's like part of the thing that's so frustrating to me, which watching a Trump's campaign so far as it's like, I don't know who, who he has running this thing, but it is not, it does not have the brilliance that Steve Bannon had in 2016, where they really figured out, like, this is the lane you run in. And you're, and there's so many things about, and so anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that, like, these audiences, man, need to pressure Donald Trump right now to be better and to run a smarter campaign. So if you're Trump, what do you run on right now? Well, okay. So first of all, it's like, you understand that the whole appeal of Donald Trump was that he was a giant middle finger

to the establishment who's failed on everything. There was a reason why people wanted a big middle finger to them because they failed on everything. I mean, just look at in the 21st century alone, what has the ruling elite handed the American people? I mean, like they failed on 9-11. They then used 9-11 to fight a bunch of wars

they already wanted to fight that were catastrophic. Just absolutely disastrous. They used it to oppress their own population. Yes. They stripped us of all types of basic liberties that we took for granted. Humiliating us at the airport. That's right. Yeah. Then they handed us the greatest financial recession in 100 years. They gave us the Obama recovery, which was like the most crony recovery built off 0% interest rates and record high government spending. So the recovery essentially was Wall Street and the suburbs of Washington, DC. Then there's the

rise of wokeism, all this insane stuff that they're pushing on people. Now they've given us this disastrous war in Ukraine, all this stuff, right? They literally created COVID. Yeah, yeah, yes. And then stripped us of our civil liberties in the name of fighting something that they created in a lab with our supposed enemy, China. Like, what?

Yes, they, right, they created the thing. Yes. Allowed, and I don't mean intentionally because I don't actually think that's the case. Well, I'm not suggesting that. But they allowed the conditions for this to happen and then used that to have the biggest crackdown on the liberties of the American people

in our nation's history. And all on the basis of pseudoscience. It was all completely wrong. Then this vaccine, they tried to force into as many people's arms as they could that was totally sold off lies and was actually somewhat dangerous and totally unnecessary for the vast majority of people. And okay, so they've given all of us. So like the lane here is that you, Donald Trump, represent the repudiation of all of that. And that's how you won in 2016, obviously pre-COVID, but that's how you won in 2016. You were a repudiation of the Bushes and the Clintons, not just the Clint mean, like, this is what gave you that energy.

This year in the campaign, I mean, look, however you feel about Israel, the fact that Donald Trump has made the whole campaign, you know, his convention is the pro-Israel convention. And then it's like, oh, Kamala Harris, she's a Palestinian. Chuck Schumer's a Palestinian. They're all a bunch of leftists. It's like, well, now what? You're supporting the status quo, which is that America supports Israel? That's what every powerful person in DC believes. All of them, including Kamala Harris, by the way, who's a part of an administration that is completely supporting Israel's war in Gaza right now. What is this weird invention? And then he even frames it as they're all these left-wing socialists, you know, they're all the, like, so he's almost like putting himself in the position as the defender of the establishment against the radicals who would

overthrow the establishment and what have a revolution of the workers or something like this. None of this is, first off, it's not true. That's not at all what's going on. They're the defenders of the establishment. They use some left-wing rhetoric to pit people against each other and create a culture war to distract from their terrible policies. But they're not Marxists.

This is so ridiculous. You know what I mean? And so, like, first of all, look, Donald Trump, I'm not saying... It's painful to hear this because it's so true. Well, look, I'm not saying you have to come out. You don't have to be me, okay?

And you don't- It's just objectively true. Well, you shouldn't be me, by the way. Because if you were saying what I think, it probably wouldn't get you elected. You know what I mean? Oh, fair. You can come out there and say, we love Israel. We will always defend Israel.

Israel is a great country. But we're not funding aggressive wars around the country. So, what does that have to do with anything? I just don't see why it's even relevant. But if you want to be the anti-establishment guy, you can't take the establishment position. Okay, so that's where you're speaking the deepest level of truth, in my opinion. You are not the incumbent. The incumbents have wrecked the country. I mean, off the cliff is not too strong a metaphor for what they're doing. And you're opposing that. So hoist the middle finger. You're opposed to that. You are not on the side of the establishment. I don't understand why

that's just not hard. I put that on the refrigerator and just meditate on it every day. Well, I also will say one of the things that was kind of magical about Donald Trump's to completely dominate the news cycle and took out the Bushes and the Clintons, the two most powerful political families in modern American history. He took both of them out in this crazy upset. Part of the way that he did that was that there were these issues that were overwhelmingly popular that no one else wanted to touch it's like there was like if there was like a poker game and there was just like pocket aces that like everyone's like i don't want those cards and then donald trump was like i'll play those cards those are very good cards i'll play uh how about um how about build a wall and stop the flood of illegal immigration? How about we can

have immigration, but we get to decide who comes in and does it. It's wildly popular with people. Open borders aren't popular. It's hard to even find polling on them because it's so unpopular that people won't even ask the question. They ask, do you want higher levels of immigration or lower level? But the only polls I've seen, it's like single digits, you know, maybe 7% of people support open borders, maybe less than that. But so he's just playing these, but hey, we shouldn't fight stupid wars. It turns out that's a wildly popular position. However, I will say with this, you know, the majority of Americans don't want to support

Israel's war in Gaza, but he won't play that card for whatever reason. Maybe it's because he believes it. Maybe it's because Jared Kushner convinced him of this, or maybe it's, I don't know, but he's not going to play that card and just say, hey, we're broke here. We're $35 trillion in's right we can't afford to uh prop up other listen when um i'm like a strict non-interventionist i i'm like john quincy adams i don't think america should fight anything if we're attacked we destroy those people but that's essentially it you know um but when uh a couple months ago went around in response to israel uh killing an Iranian, when they launched those missiles at Israel and a team of nations led by the United States

all helped defend Israel. It was Jordan and Saudi Arabia were involved too, by the way, which kind of goes to show you the real dynamics of that region. But no one's really complaining about that. Like, okay, fine. I'm a non-interventionist, but like if missiles are coming toward Israel,

go ahead, shoot them down. Fine. That doesn't mean we have to help them. That doesn't mean we have to fund them fighting their war. And then also just the fact that like, there's a foreign country we're not allowed to criticize and people's careers get ruined over that. This is, I'm sorry, listen,

if you want to be America first, what does America first mean, right? It means we shouldn't have fought the war in Iraq or whatever, something. Okay. Who really wanted us to fight the war in Iraq? You know what I mean? I'm just saying it's like, no, like all these guys, and it's like, they come back in now with the NatCon movement. Douglas, Colonel McGregor had a great article about this earlier this summer. He coauthored it in the American conservative, but it's like all this new NatCon movement that has all this kind of like pro Israel stuff coming into it. It's, it's the title of the piece is a neoconservatism by another name. It was a great piece. Everybody should go read it. But it's like,

well, who do you think the neocons were who wanted us to fight the war in Iraq? Like I said last time on here, go read A Clean Break, A New Strategy for Securing the Realm by Richard Perle and David Wormser. It was about overthrowing Saddam Hussein for Israel's benefit. Like, I'm not against Israel. I'm Jewish. I like Israel. It's a cool country.

The people there are great. I'm just saying that if you're America first, then the guy, Benjamin Netanyahu, the guy who testifies before Congress that we should go overthrow Saddam Hussein and launch a regime change war against Iran and launch a war in Libya, that's not your ally. The whole America first thing is that we don't think we should go fight all of these stupid wars. Unless they help us. Right, right. You know, unless there's some coherent justification for them at least. But so, okay, so Donald Trump, he needs to just play. There's a few things that he could laser focus on right now.

And he should. Donald Trump should be asking himself the question that Hillary Clinton asked herself in 2016, the most obnoxious question ever. But why are you not up by 50 points right now? Donald Trump, why is that? Oh, listen, no, just run on this. No more stupid wars, period. We're not fighting any wars of choice.

We are only fighting wars of necessity, which we do not have any right now. Iran, puny little Iran, is a threat to the United States of America. Give me a fucking break. It's absurd. Come on. This is too ridiculous.

And he should, if anyone should, he should have the courage to say that. But there's no pushback from anyone on the question of going to war with Iran.

So if you have a highly motivated force pushing for something and there's no organized resistance to it, that force will prevail. Yeah. And what I see is a bipartisan push, Republican and Democrat push toward war with Iran. No even attempt to explain why this is in my

interest, why I should send my four draft days children to go die in Iran. Not even a conversation about that. So I feel like unless I'm missing something, we're going to get that war. Well, you know, the problem, at least it's been a while since I read this, but, uh, um, Scott Horton, um, who's totally brilliant. You should have him on man. He's, uh, um, he, uh, was like, uh, Justin Raimondo's disciple. Uh, just like he's, uh, he's antiwar.com and he's just like IQ off the charts. And he wrote the book enough Already, which is a book about the war on terror from Jimmy Carter all the way through Donald Trump. And he's currently writing a book on the war in Ukraine, which I got an advanced copy of. It's phenomenal.

I can't wait to send this to you when it comes out. It's so good. It's called Provoked, and it's just the whole story of how at every turn the West provoked the war with Ukraine. It's so good. It's called Provoked. And it's just the whole story of how at every turn, the West provoked the war with Ukraine. So good. I really can't wait for that to come out and people to read it. But, you know,

what stopped the war in Iran the first time was really the military. When Dick Cheney wanted it and George W. I think George W. Bush eventually was like, I've been listening to this guy too much. This was like by 2070 and finally figured out, out, let me stop listening to Dick Cheney. Dark force.

Yeah. But it was really the military. It was just like logistics. They were just like, guys, we do not have escalation dominance against Iran. Yes, we're not going to lose the war, but they can target so many American bases over there. It's just going to be a bloodbath. Like this isn't, you know, there was one Green Beret who told me off camera, but he told me, he goes, this isn't like 10 times harder than fighting a war in Iraq.

Fighting a war in Iran is a thousand times harder. This is a whole different ballgame. So perhaps that reality will stop it from happening. But even just the rhetoric about being tough on them, it's like, why? Why are we even talking like this? Why are we constantly trying to escalate here? It's so simple and it's popular with the American people. No more stupid wars look even even the the one of the amazing things and how much munich and right right i mean chamberlain there i go again being neville chamberlain the only lesson of history ever is neville chamberlain you're always right if you're on the side of aggression you know but never if you're talking they don't know anything about neville of course of course

right or the history of the war at all so they always tell you it's the most important election of your lifetime. But of course, this one actually is. That's demonstrable. And it's also because it is so important being censored at every level by the tech companies. So we were thinking about this a couple of months ago. And we thought, why not get on the road live in front of actual people, live audiences, coast to coast, a nationwide tour where we can't be censored? That'd be good. It would also be fun. So we're doing it. We're going to be on stage with some

of our friends, some of the most fascinating people we know, the most recognizable people we know, responding to what is happening in America this September in real time. It'll be just like the podcast, but it's going to be live. So we're excited to announce our friend Larry Elder is coming to join us in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Our friend John Rich will be there with us in Sunrise, Florida. We're adding more stops. We just added another stadium show in Redding, Pennsylvania. We'll be joined on stage by Alex Jones. They tell you what Alex Jones is like. Have you seen him in person? You should. Make up your own mind. It's going to be fun as hell and interesting and intense, and we hope you will join us.

Go to TuckerCarlson.com right now to get your tickets. See you there. um but like but one of the things that's really interesting that's changed very drastically in a short period of time on the kind of the right in america is that at least what i get now the talking point for donald trump like from donald trump supporters is that um there were no new wars he didn't start any new wars which is I do love that that's the talking point. Like, it's never like, he killed all the terrorists, or he was so tough where the Democrats are wimpy.

His supporters are bragging that he didn't get us into a new war. Now, okay, you know, the reality is that, like, came pretty close, actually, in Iran and Venezuela. He really flirted with new wars. Oh, I was there.

And he didn't end the wars that he said he was going to end. And so there's some criticism, but it's kind of like, look, this is what your own supporters like about you. So just run on that. And then the other thing, man, that he... And he feels it, too. Yeah. He feels it. I mean, one thing I can say about Trump,

having talked to him about this a lot, is that that is sincere. He is afraid of nuclear war. And I think his instincts are correct on war in general. I think that's exactly right. What's in it for us? Like, what's the point? And he's also the only leader I've ever talked to in my life at that level who routinely says, well, people get killed. Yeah. You know, I'm not saying he's a, you know, super faithful Christian or whatever. I don't know where that, where that instinct comes from, but it's totally real. I've heard

him say it many times. Yeah. People die and they've got widows and kids and stuff. It's a big deal to kill people. No, you're right. He's one of the only people like I've at that level. I mean, I've heard like some anti-war leftists. Well, I think that, but I'm not, I have no power. Yeah. But like at that level of political power it's yeah it's like you'd never hear that like that's never even a part of the calculation it seems um and even when trump was being manipulated by some very not good people that he had around him like when the to strike syria it does seem like most of the reporting was that that's how they got him was with being like, look at these dead kids from these chemical attacks. Oh, the fake poison gas. Yeah. And then just, you know, and so kind of like

played on that feeling that he has to be like, you know, you got to do something to stop this. So one of the reasons nobody pushes back against the big picture claims that, you know, for example, Iran is her greatest enemy or that Putin is going to try and overrun Czechoslovakia or this is freaking insane, is that anyone who talks like that puts himself at risk. And I would just, you know, Scott Ritter, I'm sure you saw this week at the FBI rated as how, you know, this is a former arms inspector, U.S. government employee, who's been opposing American foreign policy non-violently for 20 years, and they keep throwing him in jail for it. Yeah. No one cares.

Well, there is, yeah, there's risks that are attached to opposing the war machine, because that's kind of the whole game. And so, look, I also do recognize that I'm I'm just, you know, talking shit. I'm into a microphone and that Donald Trump, the pressures and the forces that he has to deal with here are certainly things that I don't completely understand. But from what I do understand of this is that I know it's the correct position and it would be enormously popular with his base. And then there's other things too that he that he should be laser-focused on. I mean, obviously, immigration.

I mean, this is—it's unbelievable, unbelievable that what he decided was his signature issue, that he ran his campaign centered around, has been basically—has won the day. And that he was labeled a Nazi for this. And now you got the mayors in blue sanctuary cities all talking about how the influx of migrants is destroying their cities and stuff. So he's got a- He's obviously got pocket aces right there that you play this card.

And the other thing is the censorship, which really should be more of a focus of his campaign. And I'm stunned that it's not. I mean, he's back on Twitter today, by the way. I've mentioned that to you in first game. I just saw that on my way over here in the taxi. Smart. He's back on Twitter. So yeah, has to be back on Twitter to win this thing. But like he got kicked off of Twitter and not just him. He shouldn't make it just about him. That should almost be like an afterthought, you know, for his campaign. But like all of his supporters, you know, like it's in his self-interest to defend these guys. Everybody through 2020, I mean, if you were like critical of the lockdowns, everybody was getting silenced left and right. And that is, he should make this campaign

like a referendum on free speech. And that the only way free speech is going to happen is when I'm in there and he should threaten the shit out of all of these companies. He should, you know, Facebook backed off. Like Nikita Khrushchev level, we will bury you. Yes, yes, that's right.

And not, and because Khrushchev didn't even mean it like with force. He meant like their economic model was going to be better. No, I want force. I mean, with force. We should, listen, it is, that is the only thing these companies are going to respond to. But if they think that Donald Trump, like if Donald Trump could really say in a believable way, like you say, hey, Google, I'm going to win this election. Which, look, as of right now, there's at least a very good chance he's going to win this election. And he goes, my sole mission in life every morning when I wake up till I go to sleep that night is going to be to take you guys down unless you stop censoring right now.

Like, I don't mean when I get in. I mean, from now until the election, if you because, you know, you see all this stuff like Elon Musk was posting about. It's crazy. We're like, if you search for the shooter, it doesn't come up. Go right to a blanket. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Like the latest on Ford's Theater. I saw there was a Reagan, an article on Reagan getting shot. And then like, you know, if you search Trump, it goes to these Kamala ads and stuff. I mean, he should be scaring them, which by the way, they all respond to that. Oh, of course they do. They're scared of government. Well, it's why the censorship regime started to begin with.

Of course, exactly. It didn't exist. Because Democrats in Congress pushed them into it. Well, they hauled them in front of Congress and threatened all of them. And then they go, okay, yeah, sure.

It's so weak. So, turns out, Fauci has COVID. So someone just texted me, and I don't know if this is actually true, but he had six shots. I mean, which would make sense.

I think that's the recommended amount. Yeah. How do you get, if you've been vaccinated six times against something, how do you get it? You should have taken eight, I guess. You really just always need more, always need more vaccines. No, but I mean, it's

just kind of to your point, leaving aside the, I think the vaccine's poison. I've thought that for a long time. Some people are fine when they take it. Other people, including a couple I know, have their lives destroyed by it. But either way, whatever you think of how toxic it is, it clearly doesn't work.

And so why is it still on the schedule? And why doesn't anyone say that? I just feel like we're living in this moment where the most obvious things go totally ignored. Yeah, and also just the fact that there is essentially statistically zero risk for the vast majority of people from COVID. I mean, at this point, I mean, this was true in the original strains. But it's clear that getting the vax and getting the boosters makes you

more likely to COVID. I mean, the numbers seem to show that. I never got vaxed, not to brag. I hate to rub that in people's faces because I'm obviously very proud of it, one of my greatest achievements. But I got COVID once. I've been super healthy ever since then. I never wash my hands, never wear a mask. I'm like the dirtiest person you've ever met.

I'm happy to breathe the breath of strangers on crowded commercial flights. And I never got COVID again. Here's Fauci's head three times. Biden keeps getting it. Like, what is is that why does nobody say anything about this yeah well same same with me never got the vax i had coveted twice and you know it's mildly sick and it was i would have rather not yeah you know but like whatever it's fine and then i know so many people who who got it and some of whom had the same experience as me,

got COVID a few times and just were mildly sick. A lot of them got it several more times than I did. And then I do know a few people who developed heart conditions, who developed different problems. And again, it's one of those things

where you can never, like with 100% certainty, trace it to the vaccine, but it seems like the overwhelmingly likely thing. What we can say is that it doesn't work. For sure. And what we can say with 100% certainty is that the thing was sold on lies and not just like, oh, they got it wrong. Like they were totally, there was never any evidence to suggest that you could not get COVID or transmit COVID, you know, even in the original, uh, what was it? The Pfizer study where I think like, uh, it was, if I'm remembering this correctly, it's been a while

since I read it, but I think it was like in the, uh, unvaccinated group, two people died of COVID and in the vaccinated group, one person died of COVID. And then they extrapolated from that, that it's 100%, you know, reduction, but there was still a person who died of it in there. This idea that you can't die. Like this was never true. They lied through their teeth and Joe Biden did the beginning of his administration made his number one priority to, by any means necessary, get every single American to take this vaccine. And luckily, with our, like, the skeleton of constitutional limited republic, you know, like, procedures that we still have, the Supreme Court struck down the worst of his mandates, like the OSHA mandate, which would have had every midsize and large business in America

have to fire anyone who is unvaccinated. All the people that got fired, have they been made whole? Oh, no, I'm sure they haven't. And that's, yeah. Man, I mean, like, I know we live in so much stuff happens so quickly that I know going like four years ago

or three years ago seems like ancient history. But if nothing else, I mean, on that alone, the Democrats deserve to lose all power that they have, that they went all in on that. And a lot of Republicans too. So Rogan, who I just want to say for the record, I really love and I revere as a pioneer in media really more than, I mean, Roger Ailes level kind of changed everything. I just always want to say that because I really believe it. But he seemed to endorse Bobby Kennedy. Then he comes out and says,

no, I just like Bobby Kennedy. I like Bobby Kennedy too, for the record. He's a nice man. But I was not endorsing him, Rogan said. And I don't really like talking about politics that much. I'm summarizing. But if you want to

know like what I think just listen to Dave uh that was kind of funny and cool that he said that but give us your assessment of Bobby Kennedy like where what role does he play in this race if any well by the way so when uh Rogan tweeted that and I mean like it's just you know like I couldn't even look on my phone for like hours after that, because it's just like, and he, he texted me. It was one of the funniest texts I've ever gotten. Uh, Rogan texted me and he goes, Oh, I didn't even realize that I stirred up a whole riot on Twitter, but I sent all the looters to your house. Oh, that's pretty good. Which was, I was like, yeah, that is really what, but I was like, I'll take them. I love this. I like the looters. But also the moment really is,

it's because Joe is such a like, I know him pretty well. We're like pretty good friends at this point. And he is exactly what you say. Like that's him. I've noticed. Everybody who, if you watch the show, you already know who he is.

So it's like, he wasn't, he doesn't even think like, I'm going to be making an endorsement today on my show about which candidate i want to throw my people's support behind he literally just someone asked him a question and he was just having a moment like he was just like i do like this uh bobby kennedy guy you know he seems kind of like he's read books about stuff and he wants to discuss ideas and not just like personal attacks and i really like like that. I agree with that. And yeah, I mean, I kind of, I tend to agree with that too. I also just, by the way, I mean, I was just so furious at Trump supporters

who were like giving Rogan shit for that. And then I just thought it was maybe the stupidest thing Trump's done in the campaign so far was that he posted on Truth Social attacking Joe Rogan for it. And it's like, man, is anyone around him to just be like, no, you don't go to war with Joe Rogan. No, that's the teacher's union. You should be like, what? But it's also like, even whether he's supporting you or not, that's your teacher's union. You know,

he's again, like I said before, it's not left versus right. It's dissident versus the regime. And this is the guy who cracked the corporate media. He's the guy who cracked the state's monopoly on information. That is true. Come on, what are you doing here? And he said, also, he's just so removed. And it's really just the flaw in Trump is that he said, it'll be interesting to see

how much Joe Rogan gets booed at the next UFC event. And you're like, do you really think Joe Rogan's going to get booed at a UFC? Okay. All right. I know that Donald Trump, I know how your mind works. And there's great things about it. And then there's things that hold you back. But I know that you think that since they love you at the UFC event, they're your people and they'll hate anybody who is not supporting you.

But actually, they really love Joe Rogan and they're not going to be booing him. And it was just so stupid to fight this fight with him. Anyway, to the Bobby Kennedy stuff, when he first started running and I had him on my show and I was just like, I just loved the guy. And I thought, you know, his positions on Ukraine and on the vaccine, I thought were heroic. And it was amazing. What was so amazing about his campaign was that he was running as a Democrat and he's Bobby Kennedy. Yeah. Like his name is Bobby Kennedy. And he's not like some, you know, peripheral Kennedy who's like he's Bobby Kennedy's son. He's Jack Kennedy's nephew. And here he is giving Democrats this. It reminded me a lot of the Ron Paul presidential campaigns where because Ron Paul was such a conservative person and because right after his name, there was our Texas, you know, and he could be against the wars. It was like he gave permission. Exactly. You're allowed to be against

the wars. You could oppose the wars and you don't have to give up your whole identity. You don't have to be Michael Moore in order to be against this war. No, that's exactly right. You could be a real American patriot and oppose these wars. And in a similar fashion, I felt like Bobby Kennedy was giving Democrats permission to abandon these, which were, look, I mean, if you think about it, I said just a second ago that the vaccine was Joe Biden's first, you know, we're all in on the vaccine. And then his second big thing was all in on the war in Ukraine. This is the Biden administration. So he's this total repudiation of Joe Biden, but being like the true Democrat, what we're really supposed to be,

you know? And so there was something amazing about his campaign. Um, you know, I understand why he made the move to go independent because there's, there's not a real, uh, democratic process in the democratic party. Nor is there much of a constituency at this point for that message. Yes. That's probably true. Yeah. Um, I, I do think that, and, and, you know, me and and him he came back on my podcast to his credit and we argued uh about this um i do think it's it's strained our relationship a little bit but i like i could get past um being not being good on israel from from my perspective, of course. Um, and I could, I could get past, I could probably tolerate all the way up to, uh, like Vivek Ramaswamy's position on Israel, which essentially was, he was like taking the non-interventionist position, but doing it in a

way where it's like, I am not picking a fight with AIPAC. You know what I mean? Like he was like, I think his answer at the debate was something he said. He goes, I'll tell Netanyahu that I'm going to kill the terrorists on our Southern border and you go kill the terrorists on your Southern borders. I was kind of like, I'm not funding your war, but like totally support you doing what you're doing. That's not how I feel about the situation at all. I actually, I think it's really horrible what Israel's doing and it's inexcusable. Um, but I mean, I just going around with Rabbi Shmuley as your campaign advisor, I just like, to me, once I saw that, I was like, I'm just, I can't, I just can't, it's too much for me. So, and I do think again, kind of like I'm saying with

Donald Trump, I mean, he's just pocket aces. You don't want to play these pocket aces. Okay. I mean, Democrats, like 70% of Democrats oppose this war and want to cease fire. I think 50% of them consider it a genocide on the Republican side. Obviously, there's a lot of America first people who could be persuaded that we shouldn't be involved in these conflicts. I think Bobby Kennedy had a real chance to make, like if he was non-interventionist on this war, I think he would have made some huge waves. And I think that really hurt him. He also, he lost a bunch of people on his campaign staff because he was the

anti-war guy. I had a whole bunch of young anti-war people who were like, oh no, I'm not going to be a part of this now. So where does that leave him now? As a political matter, it feels like there is a significant chunk of people, I don't know how many in the millions though, support Bobby Kennedy, clearly repudiate the priorities of the Biden-Harris administration, don't want to vote for Trump. I mean, my sense is he's taking potential Trump voters. Yeah, that might be the case. I'm not sure exactly. And I don't know. I mean, if Donald Trump, if he were to drop out of the race and endorse Donald Trump, I think there's a very good chance he could end up in his cabinet and get some type of position out of it if Trump were to win. For sure.

I don't know if that's going to happen if he stays in the race the whole time, because I think it will be seen as like, well, no, I mean, you can't, you know. Diminishing returns, for sure. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you just can't do that and then expect the guy to give you a position. Do you think if Bobby Kennedy endorsed Trump, which is possible, I would say, it is possible, do you think that would push Trump over the line?

Would that meaningfully help? Most endorsements don't. Would that make a difference? It might. I don't know. You know, it's hard to tell what endorsement, you know, Most endorsements don't. Would that make a difference? two of the most successful political figures in the last, the most successful political figures in the last, you know, 15 years or so. And it's not as if their endorsements seem to carry that much weight. It's not like, it's not transferable like that in the, in the same sense that like, um, you know, like I love your show. I, you were the only guy on cable news who I always

watched and I love watching your show on your new network. And if you were like, hey, you got to check out this guy, someone else, you got to check out their show, that would certainly get me to check it out. But it's not as if that's a guarantee that I'm going to like it.

I'll check it out. And if I like it, then I'll keep watching it. You can't just transfer the thing that people like about you onto other people. I've never said a bad word about Rogan. I genuinely like him as a person. I think his show like made such a massive difference

in the media landscape in an American history. I'm not taking ayahuasca. Do you know what I mean? It's like nothing. I love Rogan. I'm not taking ayahuasca. It just doesn't work that way. And so I do wonder, I really don't know the answer, but like, is it Bobby Kennedy? You know, if he were to drop out and endorse Trump at this point, don't people kind of already know they had the option to support Donald Trump. And if they're still not supporting Donald Trump, there's probably a meaningful reason why. Um, and one of the things that, you know, kind of, uh, is I think probably the reason why none of them will agree to have Bobby in any of these debates is because if they were to, then the topic of Trump's handling of COVID would have to come up. And Donald Trump is kind of lucky in a situation.

Like there's always this dynamic in some issues between Democrats and Republicans. So like, for example, when Barack Obama was president, all of the Republicans at that point, their criticism of him was that he was too soft on foreign policy. He won't even say radical Islamic jihad and, you know, dumb Marco Rubio, you know, points like this. And so then he totally gets off the hook for his very aggressive foreign policy and the war in Libya and Syria and Yemen and all these wars that he started, by the way, all on the side of Al Qaeda. And no one ever gave him any pushback from that. Like no one ever, he never got held accountable or had to answer for any of that because the Republican talking point was he's weak on defense and we're tough on defense. And likewise with COVID because the Democrats whole narrative the whole time was that he's not reacting enough. No one ever really gives Trump a hard time. I guess DeSantis tried to a little bit when he ran against him, but it just fell flat. I mean, if you just pull the, not to disrupt the flow here,

but if you pull the thread a little bit on why were we aligned with Al-Qaeda? Oh, yeah, yeah. Because they're not Shiites, that's why, because they're not backed by Iran. And I've got to say, I'm hardly an expert on Islam, to put it mildly. I'm a Protestant Christian. However, spending a lot of time around the world, you know, the Shiites are pretty sophisticated, actually. And I do think that our portrait of what your average shiite is like is totally wrong completely wrong there are a lot of very cosmopolitan persians like very cosmopolitan very pro-western very smart

very interesting not savages at all i mean i'm not you know endorsing the foreign policy aims of iran at all or their system or anything and i'm'm not endorsing Islam, either branch, but the idea that the Shiites are like animals, that's bullshit. Well, also- And that's just ignorant. I mean, look, there's lots of problems even in the Shiite world. I mean, there's- Oh, of course. But there's, but they're also not our enemies.

Well, exactly. Of course. Like they haven't attacked us and they haven't attacked Europe. I mean, they're- Even the Houthis, I was taught as a Like, they haven't attacked us. And they haven't attacked Europe. I mean, they're... Even the Houthis? I was taught as a child to hate the Houthis. Were you really? It's all so freaking insane.

Of course, I never heard of the Houthis until about 20 minutes ago when they became our historic enemy. It's, you know, I think essentially what happened, right? Because you think it's like really Al-Qaeda and ISIS are the two terrorist groups that have actually hit the United States of America and Europe. And you know what I mean? Like committed acts of terror against them. Both were armed and funded by the West at different points. And that's pretty appalling when you think about it. But really, I mean, what happened is, and I don't know exactly how much of this was the propaganda or how much of it was genuinely believed by people who were pushing it, but certainly the stated propaganda, which was stated when Benjamin Netanyahu testified in 2002

in front of Congress as a regional expert and explained how if you overthrow Saddam Hussein, democracy will sweep the region. This will put pressure on Iran and then they will have less influence on the region. And a lot of these neoconservatives seemed to actually believe this. Now, I don't know if they did. It seems to me like some of them actually did. It's the dumbest thing in the freaking world to think you would have believed there. You had in Iraq, where you have a Shiite majority that is held down by a Sunni minority, that if you overthrow that government and install the democracy, which means the Shiites, right? Because they're 60% of the country, so they win. That this will hurt Iran was insane. And anyway, so what ended up happening after the Iraq war, after we toppled Saddam Hussein,

was that Iran got drastically more influence in the region. Now, it's possible that people like Dick Cheney and Benjamin Netanyahu and them kind of knew that was going to happen. And then they were like, well, then we'll just topple Iran next. So it'll all be fine. I don't know exactly, but there's no question. And there was a piece, I believe it was in the New Yorker called the redirect in either 2006 or 2007, where basically what was decided was that now that Iraq backfired so much and Iran has so much more power in the region that now we got to go take the Shiites down a peg. And this is really what was behind like the attempt to overthrow Bashar al-Assad. And by the way, this not overthrowing our democracy and not putting

bounties on US soldiersS. soldiers' head in Afghanistan or whatever the other lies that they made up about Vladimir Putin. The real crime that Vladimir Putin committed was he denied the U.S. a regime change in Syria. And you could look at the way Vladimir Putin was talked about before Syria versus after Syria. It is so stark. George W. Bush said he looked into Vladimir Putin's eyes and he was a good Christian and Hillary Clinton had her reset button. It wasn't until he denied the American war machine a regime change that he became Adolf Hitler.

He's hell-bent on reconstituting the Soviet Union and all this other crap. That's really what it all started for. And he saved Assad. Apparently, he was close to Faisal Assad, Shah al-Assad's father. And Assad called him and said, I need your help. And he dispatched troops immediately. Which, by the way, whatever you think the geopolitical balance or whoever side you're on,

that is kind of the key to long-lasting alliances, is defending your allies with troops when they ask you to. And the Biden administration has not done that to like legit allies, whatever. Well, also, and he was motivated to do it, I think, because he didn't want to see ISIS take over Damascus, which was a real threat at that point. And they were driving around in Toyota trucks. Murdering all the Christians. Yeah.

Yeah. And in the most barbaric, brutal way. Crucifying the Christians, but you're not allowed to notice that or something. And Tulsi Gabbard is anti-American for caring what happens to the Christians of Syria. I think we're fast approaching a period where the people who've lied to us in all these different subjects should just be quiet. Like, be quiet. Like, why? I don't, is there so much demand that,

like, I'm sorry, David Frum or whomever, like, your opinion is just not even relevant. Morning, Joe. Like, nobody can, like, why are we allowing people with- Yeah, it's like, you've got everything wrong, you know? Truly. But I think it was, I think I heard you use the analogy or metaphor, but it's like the old, like, once they see your face, they have to kill you. That's right. Or once you see their face, they have to kill you.

Yeah, once the kidnapper drops his mask. And there is this feeling, and I do think this is also part of what freaks them all out about donald trump is that okay so first of all like we were saying before he's leading a movement of really every tough man in america pretty much loves donald trump maybe not every but you know the overwhelming majority of tough men in america love donald the non-tim wall's ones yes that's right including um and the well-armed, including many people in law enforcement and the military. Yes. You know, and so he's got that.

Then he's running a campaign that is very specifically pointing a finger at DC and saying, these guys screwed you over. And he's also like a wild man. Like he can't control what he says. It's the most charming and frustrating part of Donald Trump. You know what I mean? Like, even if he wanted to, he couldn't control himself. You know what I mean? Like he's gonna say it, it's gonna come out of his mouth. And then he's saying things on the campaign trail in 2016.

Like, and you know, he says it in this kind of sloppy trumpian way but but he would be like obama created isis you know obama did that which is like not exactly true but like there's a lot of truth to it you know like it's it's like well no he didn't but he did knowingly fund and arm them and that is treason literal treason Like that is exactly what treason is. Especially if he wasn't doing it on behalf of the United States. Well, right. And well, exactly.

And so now if you imagine, okay, now this wasn't just Obama who did this. I mean, this was Brennan in Operation Timber Sycamore, right? Like this was the plan. John Kerry's even on tape talking about how they knew. They saw ISIS was getting the weapons and stuff, but they were like, Hey, like, you know, we'll just keep promoting this myth of the moderate rebels, which is so ridiculous. And then that'll

put pressure on Assad to step down. So this is how we're going to get our regime change war. And then ISIS went and invaded Iraq. They weren't supposed to do that. And then Obama had to go back into Iraq to kick them out. But the point is that this is actual treason. You know, like arming, giving material aid and comfort to the enemy. Like Al-Qaeda in Iraq and in Syria is getting weapons from America. That is treason. And now you got this guy who's essentially calling you out for treason, who might be the president of the United States of Americaica like the punishment for treason is the death penalty and i i do think like i think

donald trump himself didn't even realize what enemies you're making when you say and how much power they have like you you know like who's the last president who like fired the head of the the CIA and made a big thing about how he was going to smash it into a million pieces? What happened to him? He took a limo ride through Dallas, right? Oh, it's true. So it's like Donald Trump, I think, was totally naive about, like, you know, he knew there was a swamp that needed draining, but I don't think he knew what was in that swamp. He wasn't watching Schumer on Rachel Maddow's show. Right, right. And I do think, you know, being in the world of business gave him a lot of correct instincts, but it's like, no, man, there's just nothing like this.

Government isn't the business world. Government is the criminal organization world, which, you know, maybe he probably had a little bit of experience in, but sure. You know, real estate, the painters union or whatever, you know, running casinos and stuff like that.

I'm sure he's kind of been around, but not like this, man, that's nothing compared to, you're talking about the CIA. That is a whole different, right? These are not paving contracts,

right? Right. Control of the world. Yeah. And so there was just all of this, you know, uh, got this tremendous reaction and he's still dealing with that. I'm a little bit confused that for two years,

we were told that the vanguard of the fight for democracy was unfolding in Eastern Ukraine. It was really, it mattered much more than anything in our stupid, meaningless lives here in the United States. And that's why all good people wore the blue and yellow lapel pin and put the little flags in front of their houses in Napa and all that. And then one day we just stopped hearing anything about Ukraine. What was that? Well, I mean, it was all built off lies and it's been a disaster like all of these wars and it's not gone at all the way it was supposed to i mean remember there

was a period where uh joe biden at the very beginning of the war was just with sanctions we're going to defeat russia we're going to destroy the ruble and you know but make everyone in russia poor and that'll be so great and we wouldn't even have to send in weapons and then of course we had to and of course just all the lies ukraine is winning ghost of kiev all you know these crazy just obvious lies. And so ultimately you're at a point where, yeah, you don't really want to talk about that because there's nothing you can point to and brag about. But isn't it crazy? I did a debate on this topic on breaking points. That was a great show and you've you've been on uh with crystal and and segar yeah i know i know saga well yeah oh that's right he used to work for

you right yes yeah yeah he's great i love that guy yeah i do um but so i was on uh i did a debate on that show and i was kind of like talking about how it was crazy for all these people who have like the ukrainian flags and we care so much about ukraine and all of this stuff it's like do you recognize that we we hold all the chips like the united states of america holds all of the chips we could get this war to stop in almost any way we wanted to if we want to just play our ultimate Trump card, which is that we'll leave NATO. I mean, there's no reason for us to be in NATO anyway. It totally makes no sense. I know you've talked about a bunch. This was started after World War II because Europe had been totally destroyed. America was the only advanced country that was left standing and hadn't had their homeland wrecked by the thing.

And then there's this Soviet Union. And so these guys can't defend themselves. We have to kind of work on this deal that we're not going to let you invade Western Europe or we'll come to their defense. And now it's like Europe is rich, America's $35 trillion in debt. And oh yeah, the Soviet Union doesn't exist. What's the point of this thing being here? And Vladimir Putin would do almost anything to get that to happen, to get America to leave NATO. It would be nothing but good for us. We just wouldn't be subsidizing other rich countries' defense.

He could take it as a huge victory. Of course. You know what I mean? You could get almost anything you want. And if you guys care about Ukrainians and Ukrainians dying so much, why not? Why not just make this deal? We could do it right now. I mean, we're not getting Crimea back to Ukraine. That's not going to happen, but who cares? You know what I mean? You could get almost any, you could get the end to the war immediately if you were to do this. Do you know how many jobs now occupied by people

with no skills whatsoever, totally pointless people, pure parasites on our economy and culture would be lost if we get rid of NATO. Yeah, well, that's the problem. That's 100% the problem. That's the issue. It's why not get rid of the energy department or the education department? They've served no purpose other than self-perpetuation. And they've made all of those areas much worse than they were. It's unbelievable. The state of education in America, what did it get a lot better since Jimmy Carter created the Department of Education? one lesson of the 20th century. That model doesn't work. Centralized control does not work.

This is why all of those countries failed and continue to fail everywhere it's tried. And now we're doing it and we're failing. Because it benefits the few. So let me circle back to the beginning of the conversation here at the end. You haven't been here in two and a half months, maybe? Mm-hmm.

A lot has changed. All of your kind of core suspicions have been confirmed i think by the assassination attempt and the subsequent coup where does that leave you like do we just spent a couple hours talking about how bad things are and about all the signs that they're ominous signs that they're about to get much worse does that make you feel afraid hopeful excited a combination yeah probably a combination i would say you know which by the way we didn't even really get into the coup but it is pretty crazy how much of a blatant coup we just watched and then i've seen people like uh um like democrats on on social media and stuff and they'll uh they'll call like people and stuff, and they'll call people like us out,

and they'll be like, well, first you said the guy was too senile to run, and now you're saying it was a coup when they removed him. You're like, yeah, both are true. I don't know what to tell you. The guy is clearly senile, and also he is still the president of the United States of America,

and there's a process here. I mean, they'll say, and it's just, the one thing I can't get over is not that people disagree with me. I assume people are always going to disagree with me. I'm often wrong. So it's like, it's okay to disagree with me.

What I can never metabolize, accept, deal with is people's willingness to just say anything. You just like move the goalposts. Because it's expedient. Yeah, yeah. The capacity for lying among certain people just blows my mind. You tell Joe Scarborough, you got to say this because there's some material advantage to you. The capacity for lying among certain people just blows my mind. You tell Joe Scarborough, you got to say this, because there's some material advantage to you.

He will say it no matter what it is. And all that way. It's like, how would you describe threatening a man until he agrees not to run for president again, and then installing somebody without a vote? Like, that's a coup. And by the way way it's totally unclear and i would say we don't know for sure but i would say like the high likelihood is that he didn't ever agree to it until after the letter was out i mean look it is so you cannot overstate

how bizarre it is that a few weeks before the Democratic convention, when Joe Biden had already gone through a couple weeks of all these calls for him to step down, at every single turn said, no, I've made up my mind. I am not stepping down. It's me versus Trump. So get used to it. I beat him last time and I'll beat him again this time. That morning, the morning that the letter comes out was Sunday. His surrogates are going on the Sunday talk shows and saying enough with this. Like an hour before the letter comes out. Enough of this. He's made up his mind. He's running even after Pelosi and Schumer meet with him, even after the 90 million or whatever is held back from his.

He's like, no, I'm good. And then you're telling me the sitting president of the United States of America a few weeks before the convention is announcing that he won't be seeking reelection. And this is not done in an address to the nation. This is done on personal stationary and just tweeted out. And then in a separate tweet, he endorses Kamala Harris. And it's not for days later that we hear from the president. Like that is crazy. I mean, I know so many crazy things are going on that it's almost easy to not appreciate how crazy that one is, but it, and you can say, oh, he had COVID or whatever. They just get up,

I don't know, put on one of those masks that you guys pretended worked for so many years and like, go, he can even be an edited video. It doesn't have to be live. I mean, just like, I know he stumbles a lot or whatever. It could be two minutes, but how do you not address the American people about that? And it just, it really seems like, and of course, Cy Hersh had that reporting on the call with Obama, where they threatened, they had Kamala Harris on board, we're going to invoke the 25th amendment. But my suspicion is that that phone call happened, you know, like the Schumer and Pelosi strong arming didn't work. Obama comes in, we're going to remove you from office and this will be your legacy. And then the letter is tweeted out already

and it's presented as a fait accompli to him. It's all over. And then eventually he goes, I have the right to choose. But what does it say? I mean, if the sitting president of the United States, purportedly the most powerful man in the world, doesn't have enough power to run again

for the job he currently holds, he's not allowed to. None of it's real. The presidency is not real. The president doesn't hold the power. I mean, they just showed us that. Yep. So it's then, how do you, I mean, people are not thinking this through. Our system is voluntary. All systems are. How do they expect us to accept the election results, abide by those results, pay our taxes? How do they expect us to obey when the system has been revealed

as illegitimate? Yeah, well, it's the only way would be some type of escalation of force, you know? I mean, that's the only way to do it. I will say, though, that, you know, much like when the Soviet Union collapsed and was largely peaceful, you know,

and was kind of like a really amazing thing. It was very peaceful. And now what happened in the years following it was largely peaceful, you know, and was kind of like a really amazing thing. It was very peaceful. And now what happened in the years following it was not good and that didn't need to happen. And, you know. No, but they pulled their nuclear weapons out of all their satellite states. They dissolved the Warsaw Pact. I mean, that happened, by the way, 33 years ago this week.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was on my honeymoon. And, you know, there were people at the top who wanted to not let it happen. Like, no, escalate the force and don't let this happen. Put down these revolts like they had done previously. And ultimately, they just kind of lost. And like enough people were just like, no, just let them go.

You know, it's not working. So you kind of hope that something like that can happen in the United States of America. And that doesn't mean like a national divorce type thing, which is something that has become kind of a popular thing that some people advocate for. Um, but it does mean some type of like decentralization of power and Washington just having much less power than it currently does have. I think that it is, and I said this to you last time, it's the great case for optimism, is that all of this government tyranny relies on propaganda. And the propaganda is being broken at an unbelievable rate.

Things that would have seemed unimaginable very recently in my adult lifetime, like not, you know, generations ago, but just years ago. And we're seeing that now. And people are waking up in a very profound way. I mean, it really is, it is all fake. And more and more people are aware of that.

Like it's, If you zoom out and go from my mother's, when my mother was my age, to me being this age, it is unbelievable how much more people understand that this is all fake now. And you're right. Propaganda is the key. I mean, Joseph Goebbels, not to make everything a Nazi reference, but it was 5'4", crippled, never fired a gun in his life except into his own head in the end, never commanded an army. He was the political chief of Berlin, but he was the propaganda chief, and therefore he was the pivotal person in the Nazi government. He was because he was in charge of people's brains. And so that you cannot, and I'm not comparing anyone to the Nazis. I hate Nazi references in general, but that's just true. Right. and so that you cannot and i'm not comparing anyone to the nazis i i hate nazi references

in general but that's just true right propaganda is kind of everything actually yeah and that it's it's the most powerful thing to control it's more powerful than controlling the laws or the money or the military absolutely right you control what people think you you know, you control narratives. And it's amazing. I mean, look, it's still very effective. Oh, I know. It's not nearly as effective as it once was, but it is still there. And you see it like when people get taken over by the propaganda, it's such a bizarre thing. I mean, you're like, it's like talking to someone and there's no soul there when they just repeat back the propaganda to you or something.

It was like, January 6th was an insurrection.urrection you're like i'm not having a conversation with you i'm having a conversation with like what don lemon convinced you you're supposed to believe no people who've fallen for that yeah i mean i don't know in like my close circle or anything like that but what do you think i know i'm so far afield again but i'm but I'm just, I don't know the answer to this. What distinguishes someone who falls for the crudest kind of propaganda, January 6th was an insurrection,

Don Lemon's smart, whatever the lie is, from you? Some of these people are smart. I mean, it's not just an IQ difference. Oh, no, no, no. It's not an IQ difference.

Oh, I know. There's people far smarter than me who fall for it. Oh, me too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No question about that. So what is it? I don't completely know. I's people far smarter than me who fall for it. Oh, me too. Yeah, no question about that. So what is it? I don't completely know.

I think there's something about, it's like human beings, we're pack animals, and that's very at the core of us. You stay within the pack because out here is death. Yes, 100% you start to death. So you stay in here, right. And there's something, there's a personality type

that certain people have. It's not, again, it is not about being left or right. It's not at all. That's for sure. But there's something where people have,

you know, like there's people who, like I disagree with on a lot of issues, but like Alex Berenson is very willing to go outside the pack. I totally agree.

He's like, okay, oh, you want to like have all these arrows come at me? Okay, fine. You know, Glenn Greenwald is very willing outside the pack. I totally agree. He's like, okay, oh, you want to have all these arrows come at me? Okay, fine. Glenn Greenwald is very willing to do that. I think you're very willing to do that. Berenson is such a great example because I really like Berenson. I text him all the time.

But I just absolutely disagree with him on a lot of issues. But I will never stop. During COVID, he was so great. I mean, his sub stack was like a cathartic to read during COVID. I totally agree. And it was, he is smart. Berenson's smart. He's a good reporter.

I think he's a really nice guy. But really, his indispensable quality was bravery. Yeah, that's right. That's what made him different. That's it. Because look, I mean, like he was in. Yeah. You were in and you're in the New York Times.

You're in all this and you're going to risk all of that just to be right about something, you know? I mean, like it doesn't even make sense when i say it out loud you're like why would you do that it's a terrible calculation no it's totally true but there are some people who just do kind of so that's you know but when you um so many of the people who and this is something i don't say this like attacking right-wing america i just it's something like to be humble about. But like in 2002, in the run-up to the war in Iraq, so many of these people who are like great now about seeing through all of this, just knew it as a certainty that like,

obviously Saddam Hussein has nuclear weapons and he clearly was involved in 9-11. And like, he's going to hand these nukes that he doesn't have off to the terrorists he's not friends with. And they're going to nuke Kansas if if unless you go support overthrowing him they just knew that as a matter of fact and essentially what are you some type of wimp if you don't agree with them on that and they didn't even kind of realize that they were they were doing the exact same

thing as some 20 year old who tells you about climate change totally you're just repeating lies that someone else put into your head. Like you are a puppet right now. You know what I mean? And you don't even realize it. And so, but it was like, I don't know. That was the culture they were in. That was the world they were in. They saw these towers get hit.

And what are you, a pussy? No, you were going to go do something about that. And so it's people play like people's sense of identity is very important to them. I remember, okay, one time I was, I have a younger brother who's much younger than me. He's 13 years younger than me from my mother's second marriage. And he's great, unbelievable kid. I love him to death. And so he was, I think he was three years old.

So I was 16 and I was watching a Knicks game. I'll never forget this three-year-old kid. And he comes over to me and he was like asking about it. And I was like, yeah, come watch the game with me. And so we're sitting on the couch, he's three, we're watching a Knicks game. And he looked at me and he went well which one is me and i was like what do you mean which one is you it was i was like oh we're rooting for the team in the blue shirts and then he kind of accepted that like okay that's but i just remember always thinking there's like this it's like so profound that that's what's in us it's like okay you want me to like get into this like kind of projected abstraction so who am i what defines me like that's so important to people it's like right at the core of everything is like yes who

am i like as a as a person like what's my identity and i think that for like look you saw this with um with like broadly speaking like liberal america during COVID, it's like their identity, their whole identity is that they're the scientific people. You know, you guys are the backwards rubes who believe in superstition and religion, but we believe in science and reason and this is what makes us better. That's their identity.

So once you tell them that it's like, well, the science says this, it was so easy to get them in. It this, it was so easy to get them in. It's why it's so easy to get them in on climate change. And then with like more conservative America, their whole identity is that like, they're the tough ones who defend the country, who aren't wusses,

who will defend the constitution. And so as soon as you fed them a narrative that gave them that identity, it was so easy to fool them with all this other stuff. So I do think that's a big part of like, they're very good. That's what the propagandists do at their best, is they play off your, you know, sense of self, your identity. It's moral judo. Yeah, yeah.

They use your body weight against you. They take your momentum and pull you. Exactly. Way past where you thought you would be. But more and more people are waking up to that stuff now. And so that's good. You've had a big effect on a lot of people, including me. And I appreciate Dave Smith, you're coming. I mean, Tucker, I could do this all day long. Good. Well, I hope you come back before we're both arrested. That would be nice. We can say once again, man, it's only been two and a half months, but everything's different. Yeah, I hope. I mean,

even if we could just share a cell once we get arrested, that would be real free. Just continue this on and on. I will never submit. Thanks, man. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Tucker Carlson's show. If you enjoyed it, you can go to TuckerCarlson.com to see everything that we have made. The complete library.