The Tucker Carlson Show - Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: How Vaccines Got Politicized and the Medical Industry Lost All Credibility

Episode Date: April 2, 2025

Five years after the greatest crime in American history, the only people who’ve been punished are the ones who told the truth about Covid. Dr. Mary Talley Bowden is one of them.  (00:00) Dr. Mary Talley Bowden Was Right All Along (06:19) The Origin of the Government’s Propaganda Campaign (17:57) How the Medical Establishment Tried to Destroy Dr. Bowden (27:17) How Effective Is Ivermectin? (42:26) The Health of Dr. Bowden’s Patients Compared to Others Paid partnerships with: PureTalk: Switch your cell phone service to a company you can be PROUD to do business with. https://PureTalk.com/Tucker Silencer Central: Promo code Tucker10 for 10% off your purchase of banish suppressors at https://www.silencercentral.com  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No Frills delivers. Get groceries delivered to your door from No Frills with PC Express. Shop online and get $15 in PC Optimum points on your first five orders. Shop now at nofrills.ca. So thank you for coming. So I want to, okay, here's my question to you. You were one of the people who was right about COVID and certainly more right than the U.S. public health authorities and the global public health authorities. And I'm just going to summarize in two sentences what I think your position was. So you're a physician in private practice in Texas and you're vaccinated, by the way. No, you were not. Oh, you're not vaccinated.

I almost did. God bless you. You're vaccinated, by the way. No. Oh, you're not vaccinated. I almost did. God bless you. But at first you have no real reason to think that this is all completely backward. But then you treat COVID patients, thousands, I think. And you start to realize that the therapies that the U.S. government is recommending are not working, that the vaccines are not working as advertised at all. And you start saying something about it and offering alternatives to it, which are badly needed in the middle of this moment. And you're attacked, really attacked. Your livelihood, your professional credentials are attacked. And then time passes, now four years, and it becomes really clear that once again, you were

more right than the U.S. public health authorities. I think that's just demonstrable. I think the science proves that. So here's my question after a long preamble. Have you been rewarded for it? Has the AMA given you the physician of the year award? No, I'm serious. Has anybody said we were wrong in attacking you and you deserve credit for your foresight and bravery? No, and I mean, I'm still fighting to keep my license. I mean, I still have the Texas Medical Board coming after me for something that happened. Right now you're fighting? Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I have a hearing coming up the end of April. And I was trying to save somebody's life. It was a sheriff's deputy. This is a man that has served for 29 years trying to protect and save the public. Father of six. And he contracted COVID. And this was in the fall of 2021. And that was the third and the largest surge of the pandemic. That's when, you know, this was following the rollout of the COVID shots. So this was eight months following the rollout of COVID shots, and they clearly weren't working. And this man, he got sick, he tried to get ivermectin, he couldn't find a doctor willing to prescribe it. He ended up in the hospital. And he was, you know, went downhill, like so many people did. and he was, you know, went downhill like so many people did. And his wife, you know, the hospital was talking hospice.

They were giving up. They said, we tried everything. Come on. How old was this man? He was late 50s, early 60s. Not elderly. No. And, you know, he was a big guy, but he had no comorbidities.

He had no other medical problems. And so we saw this, though, with so many people. If you didn't get early treatment, the second week of illness, people would start really getting bad. This massive inflammatory response would kick in. It almost always happened on day eight. It was very weird. It was very predictable. And, you know, the primary care doctors just shut their doors to these people. They said, oh, this is just a virus. We'll let it run its course and then go to the emergency room if you can't breathe. So that happened. Can I ask you a question?

Why would primary care physicians, whose duty it is to treat patients, and they must have known by this point that day eight is the critical day, why would they not treat these people? Because there's a dogma that we are taught in medical school and in our training that you don't treat a virus, that you let a virus run its course. Because there's this big fear about antibiotic resistance. So they don't want people over prescribing antibiotics. And so the assumption, if somebody comes to you with an upper respiratory tract infection and the first three, four days, five days, and they don't test positive for strep, you basically say, oh, you've got a virus and we'll just wait and see what happens. Well, I mean, that was just catastrophic. I mean, that was really, and I learned so much. I mean, I had that mindset prior to the pandemic, but I just,

it just didn't sit well with me when people were coming in and, you know, really struggling to just do nothing. And so initially I tried hydroxychloroquine, but as soon as President Trump came out and said how great it was, the Texas State Board of Pharmacy, they literally shut it down. Like they prohibited doctors from prescribing hydroxychloroquine. So I put it on the back burner and I just did my best. I did breathing treatments, steroids. I did antibiotics for secondary infection. But initially, I didn't really have a lot of demand for people coming in needing treatment. I was doing a lot of testing, and that sort of got me recognized in town because I had a saliva test that didn't require a swab up the nose.

I was able to get the results back very quickly. You might remember initially LabCorp was the only lab in the country that had the test, and they became inundated. And it was taking two weeks to get the test results back. So we had a saliva test, and people could just, we could just give a cup, and they could sit in their car and spit in it. And then we'd have the results back the next day. So that sort of, that's where it all started. And then monoclonal antibodies came about. And those worked great.

I mean, I could get as many doses I wanted. I'd get them the next day. I'd just contact the manufacturer, say, I need 200 doses to be at my doorstep. Great. They worked wonderfully. People turned around very quickly. But what happened is, and this is during that big surge when jason jones as sheriff's deputy got sick couldn't get monoclonal antibodies couldn't get ivermectin

when in 2001 was that you remember so the summer of 2021 well so well let's start in the spring of 2021 so this is following the rollout of the COVID shots. The government is upset because people are not buying it. People are not getting, there's very low uptake, very low interest or suspicion of these shots. So in March, they started their PR campaign, the government. They went after ivermectin. The FDA put something on their website about you can't use ivermectin for COVID that Biden doled out $11.5 billion to groups around the country. Initially, it started with 275. It went up to 17,000. church groups, sports leagues, all sorts of people, just funneling out taxpayer money to go after doctors like myself that were spreading misinformation and to, you know,

push people to get these COVID shots. So that happened in the spring. And that's how, so Houston Methodist Hospital, and that's where I had privileges, they were the first hospital in the country to mandate the shots. And this was April 1st, 2021. And this was the exact day that Biden announced COVID-19 community core, that billion, multi-billion dollar propaganda effort. I think it was very purposeful. I think the mandate started in Houston for a reason. I think that they knew if they could get away with the mandates in Texas, they could get away with them anywhere. Where was your governor

in this? He was, you know, he was a Republican governor. Yeah, he was a little slow to act. I mean, he was on board with Methodist. In fact, I have the CEO of Methodist, Dr. Mark Boom, on camera saying that Governor Abbott wanted them to get a shot in every arm. That's according to the CEO of Methodist. But, you know, he did come through eventually, but this is early on. So then that summer, started having all these breakthrough cases. And I was seeing it because I was testing people. So I started to track people by their vaccination status. And I saw that the vaccinated outnumbered the unvaccinated, and they were just as sick, if not sicker. So I brought this to the attention of Houston Methodist.

Were these your patients you're talking about? Mm-hmm. People that were coming to my office to get tested. Why wasn't every doctor doing this? Well, we can get to that because, I mean, I'm independent. So it allowed me to do things that other doctors can't do. But I was actually collaborating with Methodist. I was sharing my data with them because I had so many.

I mean, basically, I was just all I saw was COVID for a few years. And we were trying to get the data published. So we had a good relationship. So I reached out. I said, hey, are you seeing what I'm seeing? Like these all these breakthrough cases. At the same time, I had all these people coming to me very distraught about the mandates. And, you know, because we were ahead of the time. Right. This was before the rest of the country was mandating the shots. But in Houston, if you were in a lot of people, Houston Methodists, they employ about 30,000 people, very distraught over these mandates. And then I and then I see that they're not working. At that time, I wasn't seeing the injuries. And at that time, I was just very vocal against the mandates. So I, you know, in August, late August of 2021, FDA put out the infamous horse tweet. And that's the the attractive health care worker

nuzzling the horse and says, seriously, y'all, you're not a horse. You're not a cow. Stop it. Tweet went viral. that's right that's when joe rogan got uh smeared for taking ivermectin um and then right after that biden mandated the shots and they took away monoclonal antibodies so it's all very orchestrated but monoclonal antibodies i've never heard anybody say that they weren't helpful right but if you have monoclonal antibodies available as an option, people are going to do that rather than get the shot. So that's why, in my opinion, that's why they took away the monoclonal antibodies. Which were working.

They worked great. I mean, it was. This is like the most evil thing that's ever happened in the United States. Yeah, in my opinion, definitely. I'm sorry to keep interjecting. It's just, even though I live this, it's just so stunning to hear it recounted as crisply as you are recounting it. So, okay, so they take away monoclonal antibodies. They mandate the shot.

You're sharing your data with the hospital at which you have privileges. What are they saying? So their response was one sentence, and it said, well, we think the shots are there to lessen the severity. Well, interestingly enough, they've never shared their data, their hospital data, and being the first in the country to mandate the shots, you know they're sitting on an enormous amount of data. And if the shots had been effective in preventing transmission or lowering the severity, then they should have shared that. They would have shared that. They would have been screaming that from the rooftops if it fits their agenda. But they've been very quiet about that.

So, you know, I had, you know, all these things, all these patients coming to me very distraught. I had one patient come to me and tell me that her urologist at Houston Methodist called her and said, you're going to need to find a new urologist if you don't get the COVID shots. And she had a history of bladder cancer. So she was very upset and she was calling me to try to find a new doctor. The urologist said, I won't treat you? Well, he said that the department was talking, having discussions about not treating patients

that were unvaccinated. He didn't say- The Texas Health Department? No, this is at Houston Methodist Hospital. Oh, the Department of Urology. Yes. That's what he told this patient. Doesn't he have a moral obligation to treat his patients?

Yeah. Well, we saw all sorts of moral issues during the pandemic. I mean, yeah, crimes. So, yeah, that happened. And then on the exact same day, I got a notice from a surgery center where I operate that I'd have to get the COVID shot to continue operating. And then on the same day, I got a notice from this hospital where I was trying to help the sheriff's deputy. They had a court order to give me emergency temporary privileges so that i could give him ivermectin the wife sued and she was you know last ditch effort let a dying man try ivermectin the sheriff's deputy father of six yes um i testified she she asked me to testify i testified senator bob hall

testified we won and the court was ordered to give me emergency temporary privileges. And then I was to either myself personally give the ivermectin to them or have a nurse do it because they thought it was too dangerous for one of their own members to do it. To treat a patient. Yeah, with ivermectin, which is insane. Anyway, I got a notice that they were going to deny my privileges, even though, I mean, I've never been sued for malpractice, spotless record. They made me get letters of recommendation. They made me submit my surgical case logs. They just fought tooth and nail to make the whole process as difficult as they could. And the lawyers ended up having to go back to the judge and fight with, you know, fight with them over just giving me privileges. Whereas, you know,

at that time, there was a shortage, you know, they needed doctors to work in the hospitals. And if I, under other circumstances, if I had just shown up and said, hey, I want to help out in the ICU, they would have granted me privileges the same day. There wouldn't have been any kind of letters or recommendation or surgery. Anyway, they said they can ask, were you pretty confident this man was going to die without treatment? No. So this is interesting. So the lawyers that were doing this case, Ralph Lorigo and Beth Parlato. They did 189 cases around the country. Similar situation, the spouse is suing the hospital to try to get their loved one ivermectin in this last-ditch effort to save their lives. Half of those people, they won the case. And in the cases where they

won, all but three patients died. In the cases where they lost, all the patients died. I mean, it's really amazing. And apparently the judges, their political party matched the outcome of the trial. So the Republican judges were the ones that ruled in favor of the plaintiff. And then the Democrat judges were the ones that ruled against the plaintiff. You're making my heart beat fast hearing this. So what happened in this specific case? So, you know, there was a lot of back and forth.

It was very confusing. It was happening very quickly. And his life is on the line. And they basically, the lawyers told me, you have the green light. We're going to go ahead. We can go. It's all good.

Everything's cleared. So I send the nurse to the hospital, and she's greeted by the police and the hospital administrator and turned away. And he never is allowed to get the ivermectin. They appealed and managed to get a stay on the order, and then on appeal, they lost. So the wife, luckily, she was able to go into the hospital every day,

which was unusual. Most spouses didn't get to do that, but that was one good thing. And this was at Texas Hughley Hospital in Fort Worth. So she applied ivermectin to him topically every day without the hospital knowing. The hospital tied up his feeding tube because they didn't want her sneaking anything in. They put towels and rubber bands around it so that nothing could be snuck in. These people are evil. Yeah. I mean, they fought tooth and nail to keep him from just trying a very safe medication which i believe should be over the counter um and then and then they turned me into the medical board over it and i'm still fighting those charges the patient he

did survive um but he spent six months in the hospital he lost half of his body weight he never was able to make a full recovery and then unfortunately he did pass away that's like that's a that's very upsetting to hear that that's very upsetting and so the charges against you boy i thought i was done being upset by covid you just brought me back. It's such a stain on this country. It's a stain on the medical profession. And just that people didn't storm the hospitals. Your father, your husband, your children dying alone.

Yeah. You should have showed up with guns and said, get out of my way. It's my loved one and I'm going to be with him when he dies exactly and so i you know people should have done that and i hope they will next time uh excuse me so um your crime is recommending a therapy for covet that's yeah crime or is there i mean well there the technicality is that i didn't have hospital privileges when i sent the nurse to the hospital. But because this was a legal dispute. But she never got in.

She never got in. And I was following the guidance of the lawyers. So your nurse made it to the threshold of a hospital. Therefore, you should lose your medical license. Well, I don't think they're trying to. I think they just want to fine me. Fine you? Yeah.

Mark my record. And I could have settled a long time ago. So you have something called an informal settlement conference. It's behind closed doors. There's no witnesses or you don't really get to interact much. And they offered to make it go away if I paid them $5,000 and took eight hours of CME and retook the- What does CME mean retook the continuing medical education and then and then retook the jurisprudence exam. So all doctors in Texas have to take a medical

legal exam. So which I've already taken in past, but they wanted me to take it again. And I just said, no, I'm not I'm not caving to this. And unfortunately, the latest, so it's been three and a half years. There have been multiple continuances. They haven't been able to find an expert witness to testify against me. The first one got sick with cancer. The second one just, I think, just chickened out. I don't know. And the third one, the third witness, it turns out that the entire time, and he was the

former medical director of the Texas Medical Board, the entire time, the last 12 years, he's been working for Planned Parenthood. So we found that out. Wait, what? Yeah. Wait, I'm so sorry. Now I'm tuning in with greater intensity. What is his job, his day job when he's not? He's a lab director for Planned Parenthood. What does a lab director at Planned Parenthood do? I don't know. Sell fetal tissue to vaccine companies? Yeah, probably.

Yeah. And he's on the medical board? He was the medical director of the medical board. And he works at Planned Parenthood? Exactly, yeah. And this is not Vermont. This is Texas. Exactly.

No, I mean, Texas is not what people think. No, I've figured that out. Man, I didn't expect to be left speechless the first 10 minutes. Only three things are absolutely certain in this life, and you know two of them. First is death, second is taxes, and the third, unfortunately, is getting ripped off by your cell phone company. If you're a Verizon, AT&T, or T-Mobile customer, you know exactly what we're talking about, but there is an option. You could save a ton every month by switching to the service that we use. It's called Pure Talk. Pure Talk is an earnest friend of the show, and they are the answer. If you become a customer of Pure Talk, you get unlimited text, talk, and five gigs of data, which is enough for most people, on the country's most dependable

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she has panic attacks those doctors right right well no i mean no not those doctors oh different Well, yeah. A little bit. A lot of, you know. So that's their role. I don't think I'm dangerous. I was trying to save a life. I stepped on the toes of a hospital. That was my crime. A multi-billion dollar hospital, Advent Hospital. And, you know, that's what happened with Methodist. I stepped on their toes and they just weren't going to have that. So at any point during this, can you go to the, I mean, these are obviously huge corporations, but they're institutions whose goal is to save lives, improve lives, bring health to the population.

Could you ever just call the CEO of the hospital and the medical director of the hospital and say, this is really crazy. Like, I'm not profiting from this. Ivermectin, there's no profit margin in it, right? I just think this therapy works. I've seen it and I'm going to try and help. Andvermectin, there's no profit margin in it, right? I just think this therapy works. I've seen it and I'm going to try and help. And why don't you back off? Yeah. Can you do that?

I mean, at the time that this was going down, it was a legal battle. I felt like, well, I really can't. I just have to. Yeah, I can't step outside what the lawyers are telling me to do. How much money do these hospitals take from the Biden administration? Do you know? I don't know for sure, but I know that Houston Methodist Hospital

has $13 billion in assets. That was actually a couple of years ago. It's probably more now. In assets? In assets. So 13 billion in assets. And they have, you know, locations all over Houston. They don't pay property taxes.

They're non-profit. They don't pay property taxes? They don't pay any property taxes. I do think we should get rid of non-profit status, period. Yes. I don't understand. I've met almost no non-profit that I think is good and that needs to be reformed.

We could probably close the deficit just by getting exactly having these people pay the taxes that the rest of us pay yeah um wow that's just so shocking was there any hospital in houston where you live i think that was willing to be reasonable or was not taking orders yes there was good So, there was a Dr. Joe Varone, who's a pulmonologist, critical care doctor. He's now the head of Independent Medical Alliance. He and I, I would have, it was crazy. We'd have patients calling us all over the country saying, help, get me out of this hospital. And he would accept transfers from all over the country. So people would be, you know, life flighted from ICU and in Maine and taken down to Houston and he would care for them., and started by FLCCC, which now is Independent Medical Alliance. But it was high-dose steroids. It was high-dose ivermectin. It was

high-dose vitamin C. It was breathing treatments. It was all these very basic, you know, not dangerous things that weren't being done. He saved a lot of lives. He worked crazy. I mean, I think he worked over two and a half years straight without even a break. But I was fortunate to have him as an ally and somebody that- What a man. Good for him. So, you're clearly a data person. Do we have the final outcome? How did those patients do versus patients who were intubated in some Biden-controlled hospital? Well, if you look at, there's a great website that compiles all the ivermectin data just by itself. And there, we have 105 studies showing the efficacy of ivermectin. And it, you know, it varied depending on the actual patient, as it should.

And you wouldn't always just use ivermectin. So, in my more severe patients, I would use a combination of ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin. During that second week, I would do higher-dose steroids if necessary. I would do breathing treatments. So, it's hard to isolate saying, okay, well, it's just ivermectin. But when you look on this compilation of studies, I mean, even in the late stages, and you were asking me about this earlier, even in the late stages, they showed that ivermectin could decrease mortality by 40%. It's most effective if you actually take it as prevention. So people taking it twice a week do the best.

And then the people that start day one or two or three, they're the next best. So we, I mean, that's established. We know that. Well, it depends on who you ask, but yes, there's plenty of data supporting that. So why isn't that like the official CDC protocol for COVID? Well, you know, it would help myself and other doctors. I mean, I'm not the only doctor going through this with the medical board, but if they could make it a countermeasure, then it's protected under the PrEP Act. And then it makes all these issues that we're having with medical boards essentially go away. Is there anybody who has counter data, numbers showing the opposite, that people taking ivermectin

like die more? Well, I wouldn't say that. They'd say it doesn't work or it's not. But the studies that are all establishment, you know, in the big journals, either they didn't give the ivermectin soon enough, or they gave too low of a dose, or the study was sponsored by somebody that has financial interest in seeing it not work. So there are studies countering that. But if you look at, there's just an abundance of data showing it works, and it's super safe.

So I was a little bit nervous before I started using it because of all the media that's only for horses and that sort of thing. So I dug into it, and I did what... Does it help horses? I know we kept hearing it was a horse dewormer. Is it effective? Yes, for their parasite issues um but so i looked at the study where mark submitted to the fda it's on their website anybody can find it and you get toxicity data and there's something called the ld50 which stands for lethal dose 50 it's a benchmark

number that's used to gauge how toxic a medication is so the higher the number, the lower the toxicity. And in COVID, we were using higher doses of ivermectin than what you use to treat a parasite. So I wanted to make sure these higher doses were okay. Well, if you look at the LD50 of ivermectin, it's anywhere from 11 to 82 times what we're giving for COVID. So we are far under that threshold. And then I did a literature search and I tried to find accidental, intentional overdoses from ivermectin and I couldn't find anything. And I checked recently and there was one study showing some issues and it was a little bit muddy.

Like, was this really ivermectin? But if you look at Tylenol,ol i mean there's thousands of papers showing toxicity from tylenol so it is i know someone who has you know advanced liver disease from it really yeah well that's the thing yeah as you know thousands people die every year right yeah so um propofol used every day in hospitals man you screw that up by a tiny bit you're dead yeah correct right well yeah yeah i haven't seen it but sure killed michael jackson yep well that was right but i'm just saying like hospitals work with incredibly dangerous drugs every day right right i'm sure you do yeah yeah what are the side effects of it it's i tell people i have

a harder time with antibiotics in terms of side effects like if i'm going to get a call back in my office it's usually about an antibiotic, not ivermectin, but you can get some GI issues, diarrhea, and then you can get blurry vision, but the blurry vision goes away when you stop taking it. And it's not like, oh, I can't read. It's more like, oh, something's a little off. That's it? That's it. So I guess what you're saying without saying it is that there's really no compelling medical reason to call the cops if your nurse shows up with ivermectin. Exactly. So that's like purely political.

Right. How did your business get your profession get so politicized? Yeah, it's awful. Did you know that before all of this? No. And I remember Methodist came after me very vocally. And I had a press conference outside my office as a, you know, I'm not, I'm not standing, I'm not putting up with this. And I said, you know, politics has no business in healthcare. And at the time, I really believed it. I was not political at all prior to this i really i shied away from pile i i really didn't like it and uh i thought it was too divisive and here and here i am but no i think that's such a wonderful and very american you have children yeah and that's like a sweet kind of that's that's how

you should feel yeah that's how you should feel i married someone who feels that way i don't like people arguing like that's great you know we. Yeah. That's how you should feel. I married someone who feels that way. I don't like people arguing. Like, that's great. You know, we have important things to do. Like, yeah, no, I'm not making fun of you at all. I love that. But now I feel like there's no other choice, right? You just have to.

You have to get involved. So you were not politically aware at all before this started. And were you aware that your business, that medicine was so politicized? Had you noticed it at all? No, it's interesting that I went and looked at the data for Texas because Texas has been infiltrated by people from all over the country.

Oh, I'm aware. Yeah, 33% population. It's going to be California. Yeah, it is. And you look at healthcare professionals, what they donated to political parties. And 10 years ago, they primarily donated to Republicans. And now they primarily donate to Democrats.

The whole profession has shifted. I have a theory for why, but you're the doctor, so you tell me what you think the cause of that is. Well, I think medicine in general. I mean, the corporate practice become the corporate practice of medicine. It's become centralized. It's only one percent of doctors are not employed. I'm one of those, but not employed. Like so 77 percent of doctors are employed by a hospital. 20 percent are employed by private equity or an insurance company. And two percent are employed by a hospital. 20% are employed by private equity or an insurance company. And 2%

are employed by the government. And only 1% are like myself. So your choice is like your corporate douche overlords, private equity or insurance companies, if it's like a joke, or the government. Right. Right. And you're in the 1% that has your own business. Yeah. Maybe that's the answer right there.

Well, I think it is. I mean, we have to, doctors need to regain their power. They've lost all their power. They have no power. They have no power. They're just like little worker bees getting ordered around. I designed, so i when i got out of residency i worked in a

traditional practice and i started doing can you tell us doing what just ear nose and throat and sleep medicine and um it was small but it was it was easy and but i was always bothered by the stranglehold that the insurance companies had over my ability to treat my patients. So, like, one easy example is your nose and throat doctor. We do an endoscopic exam of the nose. It takes about an extra 10 minutes. Not really a big deal. Doesn't sound that fun, though, for the patient.

It's really not bad. You numb it up first with spray. There's no shots. But if I did that and I marked the code on the sheet, on the receipt, the patient might get some gigantic bill, like $400 for doing this little simple procedure, which as an ENT, it's pretty essential. It's part of our, you know, makes us different from the primary care doctor. We're able to look in there.. So it always stressed me out in the back of my mind, like I'm gonna do this, and is the patient gonna get some big bill, right?

I hated it. So when I, you know, I took time off because I had four boys in five years. And- Four boys? Yes. Yes. What's that like?

It was chaotic, yes. And I wasn't sure I was going to go back. I started off, I'm just going to take a year off. And that led to seven years off. I wasn't sure I was even going to go back to medicine. But as I got older, it just kept nagging at me. So I decided to go back. But I decided I was going to do it on my own terms.

So I call myself third-party free. I don't contract with insurance companies. I don't contract with hospitals. And I don't contract with the government. I don't contract with hospitals and I don't contract with the government. And the only people I work for are my patients. And it was just like give you a credit card when they come in. That's it. Yes. But they can they can file a receipt. They can file a claim to their insurance company. And it's very transparent. Everybody knows how much everything costs. And it's actually, you know, there's so many people that have very high deductible insurance now. They're basically cash patients unless something catastrophic happens. And if you go to a traditional doctor's practice, half the time,

they don't even know what to charge you for a cash patient because they're just so entrenched with the insurance industry. But there is a growing movement of doctors like myself, and I'm a specialist. So it's a little unusual, but there's something called direct primary care. And direct primary care is like affordable concierge care. So you're paying cash, but it's the cost is typical, like a gym membership. So it's not super high. You get a lot more access to your doctor, you got a lot more time, probably more quality. They're not always like-minded in terms of COVID. And to me, that's a litmus test for your doctor.

But it's a better way of doing it. You get much more access, higher quality care, more time. And save your insurance for the catastrophic care. That's what we do for our cars. And use your HSA, so health savings account, if you can get one of those. And the government could expand those and make those more available for people. Because right now it's sort of limited based on your employer. But if you can pay out of pocket for your basics, then you are likely to have a better experience. I think it's, but it also frees the doctor to think independently. Right.

And to think on behalf of patients. Why didn't you get the COVID shot? I almost got it. In my mind, I thought, okay, this thing, I don't think it's going to work, but I didn't think it was going to hurt people. I just thought, I just don't think it's going to work. Why? Why did you think that? Because I trusted, I trusted, yeah, I really had never given the FDA, CDC, HHS a thought. I really hadn't, they weren't on my radar.

I just sort of assumed that everything was fine. Well, but because you assumed that, it's interesting that you didn't think the shot would work. Right. Well, it's just because of the speed. I thought, well, how are they going to get this together so quickly that it's going to work? I also, I looked at the study and I looked at how they conducted the study and I didn't like how they did that. So, the people, the test subjects were not routinely tested. They were just tested if the doctor felt like they needed to be tested, which seemed a little too muddy to me. So that I had a hesitation on that regard, too.

And then I showed up, but, you know, I had this looming deadline because I had privileges at Houston Methodist and you had to sign an attestation, and the attestation said that you either got the shot or you intended to get the shot. So I just woke up on a Saturday morning. I'm like, I'll just do it. Let's just get it over with. I went to a grocery store, and I stood in line. Where everybody should get their medical care, right?

Go to the grocery store. Yeah, right. Stood in line and the line was long and I got impatient. And I was like, I'm going to leave. I'll come back another time. And I never came back. Why? Why didn't I go back?

Yeah, I mean, that's just, it's a big deal. You've got privileges at this hospital. You know, you treat patients, but this is part of your business. You're getting paid. And you're a doctor, so you kind of have to get the shot. Like, we're all on board. Everyone's doing this. And they really were mad at doctors who didn't take it because that's—and nurses—because that's such a statement.

Well, I mean, here's how I justified it in my mind. I never stepped foot in that hospital. I had privileges there just as an emergency situation. So it wasn't like, okay, let's say I got COVID because I didn't get the shot. And then I'm going around the hospital infecting everybody. I wasn't in the hospital. I also knew that early treatment worked. So I knew that this shot was not necessary because I was seeing it first hand.

I know, but there's so much pressure on everybody, particularly on physicians at that point to do it. If you don't do it, it's a big hassle. You knew that. It was gonna be a hassle. And so just like, I don't know, the tide is moving really briskly in one direction and you decide to swim against it.

That's more than just like a casual decision. That's a serious decision. And I'm just trying to get to the heart of why you made it. Because you're clearly a thoughtful person. You're a doctor. You don't just do random things one day. It's like, what was it? Was it instinct?

I think it was more, yeah, instinct. And everything was so busy during that time. I mean, I couldn't think straight. I mean, it was just slammed. And I just remember thinking, oh, I'm just going to go get this over with and just knock this off my list. And then when it didn't happen, I thought, well, this is a sign. I'm not going back. So it may just be instinct. Or providence. Providence. Okay. So, I mean, that decision changed your life, of course, because it puts you on the other side from everyone else.

Yeah. How did your patients do with COVID? Everybody. So, I used to give out my cell phone to everybody, especially the sick ones. Everybody that got early treatment survived. I even had some really, really sick people come in in the second and third week. So second and third week is when the inflammatory cascades set in and people get really sick. I had a man come in with oxygen saturation in the 60s, and he was not a healthy guy.

He had a history of a heart attack. He had a history of throat cancer. He was a veteran. And he basically said, I'm not going to the hospital. Because normally, if somebody walked in my office like that, I'd call the ambulance and say, but I had to allow him to potentially die in my office, which was very scary. And I had a handful of people like this. He wasn't the only one. So he sounds like he's on the brink. Yeah, no, he was bad. But, you know, I had nurses that could do IVs.

So we gave him high dose steroids in the IV. We gave him antibiotics, breathing treatments, high dose IV vitamin C. We gave him high dose ivermectin and we brought him in every day as an outpatient because I didn't have a hospital bed in my office. And he survived. And I had a lot like that. So it was very gratifying. I learned a lot. I mean, I learned that just because somebody's oxygen saturation is low, they don't need to be

immediately put on a ventilator, which is the dogma that we came into the pandemic with. But I think that dogma has changed, or at least I'm not in medicine, of course, but for normal people, there is a sense that like, stay away from ventilators. Right. Do you think that's a fair feeling? Yeah. I mean, I can see why doctors did it. Of course, I get it.

Because, you know, if somebody's struggling to breathe, that's a really scary, distressful feeling for a patient. Yes. When you can't get enough oxygen. It's horrible. So I can understand. But I guess what I don't understand is why they didn't do more to keep them off the ventilator. It's bizarre to me.

I mean, they gave them steroids, but they gave them very small doses of steroids. I mean, why didn't they just throw the kitchen sink at these people? And they just got stuck in these protocols and just basically allowed people to die. I was in a restaurant the other night, in fact, this weekend, and I had a little trouble hearing what people were saying. And I thought to myself, I'm a little young to go deaf. Why? Well, because I grew up shooting, bird hunting, target shooting. And I remember my father saying, just stick a Marlboro filter in your opposite ear and you'll be fine. I wish we'd had suppressors, but we didn't.

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I've seen it. Very sick people, I'm not going. What do you think of that attitude? Yeah, I realized I've been in the hospital seven times. And I know, well, childbirth. As a physician? Oh, well, childbirth, yeah. As a patient, as a patient, yeah. And one of them, I was really sick. I mean, I had pneumonia and sepsis, and I'm very grateful to the people who helped me. And this is from the flu, and I had gotten a flu shot, by the way.

But now, like you said, I mean, everybody is terrified to go to the hospital. I mean, the hospital used to be the place you go. Of course. The safe place. That's the hospital. I mean, the hospital used to be the place you go. Of course. The safe place. That's where you go. Exactly. The safe place.

And now people are terrified to go to the hospital. And so, you know, our current administration needs, if they don't do anything, that's a big problem because the trust has just been destroyed. Do you see that with your patients? Oh, yeah. That's the most common question I get is where should I go if I need to go to the hospital? And I don't have a great answer for them. You know, your best bet is just keep yourself healthy. I mean, the biggest thing people can do is keep themselves healthy, manage your diet, manage your stress, get enough sleep, exercise, get enough sun, and just stay out of the hospital. But keeping your weight under

control is probably number one. Is it really? Why? Because you gain weight, you're more susceptible to infection, you're more susceptible to heart disease, you're more susceptible to cancer. And those are the big three. And you have to buy new clothes, which is unacceptable. Yeah. You don't want to buy new clothes right well but you know if you lose weight you have to put i've so i did carnivore for six months and i had to buy a whole new wardrobe um but i'm speaking as a man you can't buy new clothes you can't no why not a lot it's against the rules oh oh can't find new clothes that's what keeps me in line just sorry um really good but it worked that well i weigh now what i weighed in high school i

never thought i'd get to that point i did it for six months and you know it's not for everybody but i will say it's a lot safer than Ozempic and Monjorno. And it's very simple. I mean, you basically eliminate all carbohydrates from your diet. You just eat meat and fat. Cheese. Yeah. And you snack on bacon.

I mean, it's crazy. And you're like shedding pounds. It's boring, but it's simple. You don't count calories. You don't get hungry. I mean, you do go through the sugar withdrawal. Sugar is very addictive. You don't count calories. You don't get hungry. I mean, you do go through the sugar withdrawal. Sugar is very addictive. You think? What do you think of fasting? Yeah, I tried the intermittent fasting. It did not work for me. I've heard that for women, it's not as effective. I worry that it slows down metabolism, but I have never tried it,

and I know people swear by it. So so you don't have a good answer on the hospital question i noticed oh oh how to how to fix that no like what do you do if you get sick like your your answer was don't get sick well if you have to go to the hospital be prepared have somebody with you um have your uh there is a patient bill of rights you have rights in the hospital make sure you know those I haven't noticed them yeah they don't they don't advertise them why do doctors patronize patients oh yeah so that that's a bit and it's what is that treating them like children well when I started 20 23 years ago um patients didn't have a lot of access to information, not like they have now. So we were in charge. We were definitely in charge because we had the information and patients really, unless they had textbooks, they didn't have it because it wasn't we didn't have online information.

And now patients are well informed. And so every conversation I have with a patient, I know that they have been researching and they have a lot of information at their disposal. And I think a lot of doctors don't like that. I embrace it because, I mean, I learn from my patients. And if a patient finds something, I will dig into it because I don't have time to dig into all of everything, right? And you see weird things and I like it. But I think that doctors don't like that. It's a power thing.

And I mean, it can be frustrating on the flip side. If you feel like you really know what's going on and you're challenged by something somebody's read on the internet, that can be frustrating um but it's um yeah the doctors just don't it's it's a power thing and an ego thing mostly that was my suspicion um so what did you end up thinking of the shot the covid shot it's horrible it needs to be pulled off the market should have been pulled off the market a long time ago i looked at my patients in the two years following the rollout of the COVID shots, and 7% of my new patients were coming to see me for severe injuries. I've never seen anything like it with any other product on the market. If this were an antibiotic and you were seeing

all these side effects, it would have been yanked off a long time ago. Normally, the FDA will put a black box warning on a medication if there have been five deaths. They will pull it off the market if there have been 50. Well, according to VAERS, which VAERS is Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, and it's vastly underreported, which I have seen firsthand. But it's been in place for 50 years or something. I mean, it's longitudinal. So we can see the response to all these different medications, right? According to VAERS, there have been 38,000 deaths from these COVID shots.

So under normal circumstances, the FDA would have pulled it. Instead, they've doubled down. They've put the shots on the childhood vaccine schedule. All babies are expected to get three COVID shots by the time they're nine months old. The shots are still under EUA status for this age group. So under 12, they're not even fully approved by the FDA. And yet they're on the vaccine schedule. And according to the CDC, 9 million American children have gotten the latest version of these coveted shots actually yes yes still yes yes 9 million 12 percent the um the concern I have with these kids so we know my or car this is going on right now yes I think we voted against this. Yeah. Correct?

I don't know. You're very diplomatic. But I'm just stunned to learn that that's happening right now. Yeah. Could this be shut down? It should have been shut down a long time ago. And, you know, what's... Nine million babies have had covid shots?

Yeah. Well, children, children, minors. Is it compulsory? It's still compulsory in some states. Yes. And some businesses, not in Texas. So Texas actually passed a law outlawing mandates for COVID shots. But I actually reached out to people on Twitter yesterday, and they said, all these people said, yeah, it's still requiring shots for jobs or a nursing program or even transplants. So we're going to let you die unless you get the shot. Yep. How could we fix that?

Well, the shots need to be pulled off the market immediately. Who could do that? Who could do that? The FDA. Okay. So Marty McCurry, he could do that. And then we need accountability. I mean, we need, we can't sweep this under the rug because we will never restore that trust.

And that's the key thing is if nothing happens, it's just a festering wound and the trust will never come back. Are there any indications that this is coming soon? I mean, I'm not privy to conversations in the government. I think you probably follow this as closely as anybody. There's so much going on. So I'm going to just plead ignorance on that basis. There's like a lot. Yeah. Multiple wars and the economy.

And, you know, there's just a lot to distract you from this question. But I think it's a really important question. But you are focused on it. Have you seen any sign at all that these products, which according to the self-reporting system VAERS have killed 38,000 people, that they're going to be pulled off the market? I have not. I mean, it seems to me that HHS, their focus now has shifted, or I don't know, their focus is on food and food quality and improving that. And I haven't heard a word about COVID or the COVID shots. Really? Not, I mean, maybe I've missed something, but that's, I mean, I'm just reading what you're reading.

I mean, I don't. Food is like smoking and I love bad reading what you're reading. I mean, I don't... Food is like smoking. And I love bad food and I love smoking. I don't smoke anymore, but I loved it. And I'll just say that. I don't want to hate me for it, but it's just true. That's why people do it because they love it. And I love pizza.

I don't think I ever smoked a cigarette. I don't think I've ever eaten a slice of pizza without knowing it was bad for me. Yeah, exactly. It's common sense. It is common sense. I mean, I do think like we shouldn't allow food stamps or Snap to be used for Coca-Cola.

Okay, obviously, there are changes you can make for sure. But like, you know, when you're eating garbage, that's what we call it garbage. I'm 55. They called it that in 1975. They'd be like, oh, junk food.

You know what junk food is. It's the delicious stuff. So, like, I'm not, I mean, I think it's important. I do think eating right is important. And I try. Not going to eat any freaking vegetables, though. But whatever. But, like, the COVID stuff seemed, the shot seems like an imminent threat.

Yes. And my concern, giving it to babies, because myocarditis... You're positive that's actually happening? Babies are getting this? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. You can find it on the CDC. I trust you.

It's freaking me out. I didn't know that. Yeah, that's why we can't let this just go away. Babies. So myocarditis. We know there's an increased risk of myocarditis in teenage boys who take these shots. We don't know what that risk is for nonverbal babies because the symptom is chest pain. So a baby, the baby could be getting myocarditis and we have no idea.

Myocarditis can leave a scar on the heart. And then years later, the heart is permanently... Right, you're playing lacrosse and you drop. Right. And that's my big concern. These babies could be getting myocarditis and we have no idea. Do you believe that those shots are responsible for permanent immune system damage? I think, well, what I have been looking at is spike protein antibody levels.

So when you get a vaccine, you can traditionally we call them titers. So like people who get hepatitis B vaccine, you can look at the titers, the antibody levels and see if you have protection. We do that as in the hospital a lot. So they want to make sure if you work in the hospital, if you get stuck by a needle, you're not going to get hepatitis B. So I've started looking at these spike protein antibody levels. And it's alarming because the people I can tell immediately if somebody had the shot in the vaccinated, these antibody levels are, I did an average last night, 13,000. And the unvaccinated average is 1,000.

So there's huge discrepancy. And this is years after the shot? Yeah, years after. And these people, most of these people have gotten two, maybe three. Nobody's gotten more than that. And none of these people have been sick recently with COVID.

So it's very alarming to me. It suggests, I mean, we don't know, but it suggests that spike protein is still active and still replicating possibly in the body. I mean, the mRNA, and it was made to avoid degradation. So it's made to stay in the body. That was the purpose of it, of modifying it. So when I see these levels like this, it really concerns me that we have an issue with this ongoing spike protein in the body. What are the consequences of that, do you think? Well, I think cancer is a big concern. I think immune dysfunction. How would that affect cancer?

Well, the spike protein is oncogenic. Well, your Xunxin talked about that. So viruses can be oncogenic. It appears that the spike protein, the mRNA shots have SV40 in it, which is an oncogenic virus. There's something called frame shifting. So when the mRNA is integrating, that it can produce new proteins just by little mistakes that happen. So these new proteins, we don't know what they are, but they could cause autoimmune disease and possibly cancer as well.

There's just a lot unknowns. I mean, we don't even, we need a test to detect spike protein. All we have now is antibody test. We really need a lot more. We need an antidote. We need I mean, I am struggling because I have all these injured people and I usually start with ivermectin and ivermectin helps. It binds the spike protein and it's anti-inflammatory. But we're really limited and we need a solution. So we need the NIH to really dig into this and help these injured patients because they're very challenging. And, you know, we're sort of just, you know, experimenting because we don't know.

And they're not helping? I would say, I mean, I get, you know, I've tried a lot of things. And the thing that works the best is ivermectin. But it's slow going. It's, you know, I usually put people on for a long period of time before saying, OK, this is not going to work. And it's just hard because we, you know, there's just not we need the NIH to step up and help us. Time for their true life Alp story. I got a call from a friend of mine yesterday, honestly, true story, who said his girlfriend had just broken up with him over Alp. He wouldn't stop. And I thought to myself, that's kind of sad. And he said, no, it's not sad. Imagine if I'd

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He looks at my friend thoughtfully and goes, drive safely, sir, and hands back his license and registration. No ticket. So in two days, he's saved from a tragic marriage to a girl who doesn't like Alp and a speeding ticket. All true. It's more than a nicotine marriage. In an age of 350 million, people are guessing there are about 350 million Alp stories. Email us yours. We want to know and read it on the air. Email tellall at alppouch.com. Tellall at alppouch.com. Give us your Alp story.

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job i ever had so we're really grateful to youtube i never thought i'd say that but the one area where we get censored by youtube is when we talk about the COVID shot, which I think is really interesting. So this will probably be censored on YouTube. But I just want to ask you, but you're a physician, clinical physician, you're treating people, thousands of people. And so I feel like I i have to ask you this tell us about the injuries you are seeing so i don't get the the sudden you know collapse uh myocarditis stroke sort of situation because i'm outpatient soccer players right i see i see the um yeah it's it varies but i've seen some very strange rashes that don't go away with steroids and antihistamines. What kind? Like rashes?

Like bumpy, red, splotchy. I mean, I had this poor kid, 15 years old. It was all over his face, all over his body, and he responded so well to ivermectin. That was a great case. So are you sure that was vax-related? Yeah, it came on right. right i mean he had no prior history came on he's 15 it came on right after the covet shots um the i see pots so pots is uh when the blood pressure drops suddenly or goes up real high suddenly for no clear trigger and your

pulse may be erratic as well. That's been a big thing with the COVID patients. That's very difficult to fix. I've seen a lot of neurological. Can I ask about what does POTS stand for? Postural orthostatic hyper or temporal hyper. Postural orthostatic syncope. I don't understand a single word of that.

I probably shouldn't have asked you, but like what are its effects? But so you feel faint. So you may just be standing there and your blood pressure drops or your pulse goes up way high and you feel like you're having a panic attack, that sort of thing.

So it's symptomatic changes in your blood pressure that occur without any kind of trigger. What? I mean, that sounds like it could be dangerous. Yeah, yeah. It's very, and it's very hard to treat. So I see a lot of that. I've seen neurological tremors. Oh, come on.

Oh, yeah, yeah, no, no. Tremors? I saw a patient a little bit older than me, CEO of a company. He came in and he gave me his business card and he said, hi, I'm this so-and-so. And he gave me his other card and he go, and this is the biggest mistake I've ever made in my life. He gave me his vaccine card. Very difficult to, I mean, we've gotten a little bit of improvement, but just, you know, and a lot of fatigue. Hand tremors?

Whole body, his whole body. No way. Yeah. Even when he sleeps? That's got to affect every part of your life. A lot of these patients say they feel a lot of burning, like pins and needles when they sleep, which is typical with neuropathy. That sounds like a life destroyer. No, yeah, it's bad.

And they don't just, it's not like giving them an antibiotic and a week later they're better. These are chronic conditions. And the government's not helping. So, you know, Breon Dressen of React 19, I don't know if she, so React 19 is an organization started to help the injured from, you know, with the COVID shots.

The head of that organization was involved in the AstraZeneca trial. So she was a, she volunteered to be a guinea pig and she got injured. Government just came out and said they're not going to help her. They're not going to give her any kind of financial reimbursement. When? Maybe a week or two ago i don't understand like we didn't vote for this at all right well i mean the government was in her case she was part of the clinical trials you said right but everybody else not including me and you uh took it because we were you know subject of like the biggest propaganda campaign in american history so yeah we're forced by the government to take it right by the way why aren't the companies

paying these people companies have no uh liability risk with these products. And the PrEP Act even further protects them. When was the PrEP Act passed? It does not expire until 2029. And so under the PrEP Act, they're even more shielded? Anything that's designated as a countermeasure is protected. So anything that happens in the hospitals, anything that happens from these shots, it's all protected from liability. There is one really monumental lawsuit going on that could change that. Brooke Jackson is a whistleblower for Pfizer, and she was involved in the research. So she was at the clinical trial sites. She was the manager, and she was seeing all

sorts of issues with the way they were conducting the trial. And she brought that to the company's attention. She brought that to the FDA's attention attention and she was fired so she has been in this gigantic legal battle against pfizer um for a long time now i think we're going on four years and unfortunately and this was during biden the doj stepped in and and basically said no you can't sue pfizer it's crazy you can't sue pfizer oh of. You can't sue Pfizer? Oh, of course, you can't sue Pfizer. The DOJ stuck up for Pfizer, which is not usually how that works. I'm surprised they didn't arrest her for complaining. Exactly. This has got to be making you pretty radical. It doesn't seem very radical to me. Seems like common sense. Yeah. You don't seem like a radical person, but this makes me feel radical.

So neurological symptoms, and you're pretty convinced those are also from the shot. Well, you look at, okay, what was their past history? Do they have any issues? Were they otherwise healthy? And then when did these things start happening? And the timeline. And then the other thing is they typically go to other doctors and they get the million dollar workup and they can't find anything to explain it. And the doctors are baffled.

They put them on psychiatric medications. Not really. Oh, yeah. I saw one patient on a sleeping pill, a benzodiazepine and an antidepressant. That's right. Mm hmm. pill, a benzodiazepine, and an antidepressant. SSRI? Mm-hmm. Why do we have so many mass shooters in this country? I don't know.

It's baffling. That's shocking. So they used to, I mean, in just American culture, they used to make fun of 19th century medical cures for hysteria. You know, it was always like, you know, the century medical cures for hysteria you know it was always like you know the victorian medical cures and one would have a problem they'd be like here's a giant vibrator or do you know what i mean like literally they made that like it's all in your head honey calm down yeah and that was like a trope yeah and and i was hardly a feminist

but i was kind of sympathetic to that. Like, don't just dismiss people. You know what I mean? Tell them they're hysterical. Right. But that's what you're describing. Yes. They don't get reported to VAERS.

I've had to report every single patient that came to see me for an injury. Even though they'd seen multiple other doctors, it was me that had to report it to VAERS. So I know it's underreported. VAERS is one of those things. I love the idea of VAERS. And I remember reading the VAERS report in 2021 when I worked in television and just going on one night and reading it. Like, here's what's been reported from this compound that people are being forced to take. And man, I got so attacked by, you know, the Atlantic Magazine and everybody.

It's like, no, this is a federal reporting system. Right. And that was kind of the last I ever heard of VAERS. Like, no one ever mentions it. Like, what's the point of having it if it's, like, irrelevant? Yeah, it's not subtle. If you look on there, you don't have to have a degree in statistics to understand what's the point of having it if it's like irrelevant yeah it's not subtle if you look on there you know you don't have to have a degree in statistics to understand what's going on i mean

it's like nothing's happening and then whoosh you know just it's especially subtle it was in place during the rollout of a bunch of other vaccines right like going a long way back so it's like you know measles rubella youlla exactly right yeah i don't have any degree and i could i could understand that so does that do you ever hear federal officials make reference to bears i had not to my knowledge i mean i could have missed that but no so the idea with bears seems to be that people are complaining again they need to shut up apparently it's one more thing's being swept under the rug So the idea with VAERS seems to be that people are complaining again. They need to shut up. Apparently.

It's one more thing that's being swept under the rug. Okay. So you've told a much sadder story than I expected to hear. Are you concerned that because the technology in these shots, brand new, never deployed before at scale anyway. Is that correct? Right. And the, you know, the trials for these drugs were like, I think we can say it's fair to say a joke. Right.

That there are consequences that like haven't manifest yet. Yeah, it's hard to get up to date cancer numbers, but I'm hearing all sorts of things. Why is it hard to get up-to-date cancer numbers but i'm hearing all sorts why is it hard to get up-to-date cancer numbers that's a good question we're in the middle of a cancer moonshot doctor right right there's probably people that have access to data but publicly it's hard and you know so i have to rely i don't see a ton of cancer in my practice but i do have friends at md anderson and they said they've never seen anything like it. The young people coming in with very advanced tumors, I think that's what we have to be worried about now. Can I ask, you've made reference like five times to numbers and the difficulty in getting numbers. I don't understand why. I mean, I understand why the identity of patients is shielded by federal law.

That seems reasonable to me for privacy reasons. But, you know, just the fact that someone has this or that disease with no identifying markers connected, like that seems like it should be public information. How is that not? Why is there so much secrecy around medical data yeah the data itself it could be there could be an agenda behind it it could just be a total inefficiency of the bureaucracy it's hard to say but uh yeah it'd be nice if we could have more data well isn't that essential to science? Even aside from the cancer numbers, I mean, like I said, with COVID, there are all these hospitals that had so much data at their disposal and didn't share it.

It'd be nice to see, you know, Houston Methodist come out and share their data with us since they were the first. They led the way with the mandates. Be nice to see how successful that effort was for their employees and for their patients. Can a lawsuit force that? I actually sued them to get that data. Man, you are ferocious. I lost. I lost. On what grounds?

I don't know. It was just political grounds, I think. I sued to get their financial data because as a nonprofit, they are supposed to give it to you if somebody from the public wants to know. This is what they get in exchange for not paying property taxes. Right, right, right. But there was some technicality. I don't understand really why we lost, but we did. We even appealed and we lost on appeal. Do you think that COVID, clearly there's been no reckoning, you've not been recognized for your bravery and prescience, you called it, and you should be rewarded for that.

You haven't been, likely never will be. So there's so much about it. The shots are still being given to babies. That's my takeaway from this conversation. There's no effort to pull this stuff from the market. 38,000 deaths later. There's no recourse the average person has. You can't afford to hire lawyers and you can't sue the companies that make these products and you can't sue the government officials that force you to take these products. Like everything about it is just pure oral well.

So that's the downside. And it's like crushing actually to hear all of this from you. Didn't expect to hear this. What are the upsides? Like people are more aware. Do you see medicine in the United States getting better now that people are paying attention know what's up? I think people are feeling more empowered, which is how they should be. I mean, they're not listening to the government for their healthcare decisions anymore.

I think people have learned from that mistake. And, you know, I haven't lost all hope. I'm grateful. You know, there was a time where I couldn't even, I was banned from Twitter. I don't know if you were, but, you know, we are, free speech is coming back. I wouldn't. I mean, they, I'm not, like they couldn't ban me from Twitter, so they didn't.

Yeah, yeah. But they could ban much more informed, plus I'm, how am I a threat? I'm just some like random talk show host with an opinion. The people they want to ban are the people who are telling the informed truth, the physicians who are treating thousands of COVID patients. You're the threat, not me. You're like, I'm a doctor. I'm a reasonable person. I'm not political. Here's what I'm learning. They have to ban you. Right, right. Well, and, you know, we're making, hey, I'm grateful to you for having me on here because this is old news to most people, right? And, you know, we just need to keep speaking out. We just need to keep, I mean, my foot is on the pedal, you know, even though there is no pandemic anymore, but we must just keep pounding away at this. Well, it sounds like indications suggest, I mean, I don't want to overstate anything, but it feels like the consequences

are still rippling. And I don't know why there's not an organized effort to find out, you know, our cancer rate spiking. We eliminated cigarette smoking, which was supposedly the main driver of cancer. I was there for all that. They beat me into quitting, which is fine. You know, smoking is bad. I got it. But like cancer went up. So like at some point I would say, stop.

You told me this. The opposite happened. Let's talk about why. I'm not attacking you, but like I demand an answer. And I don't know why. How hard is that to get some statistician at NIH or wherever, HHS, to tell me what's happening with cancer rates

and pediatric cancer rates, especially, because that's like crazy town. I think, yeah, the money is there for the treatment, not for the cause, right? So it is, you know, there's lots of money. It's just going towards- going towards that doesn't make any sense like how how can you recommend treatment without knowing its effect how can you you can't make any wise decision without all the facts as we say right right but this is not i mean this is

financially driven so if you're you're in it to to make money you're going to go after the treatment not the cause very cynical about medical care i've seen a lot would you have gone into this if you had known yeah i mean i'm sorry not to get you to reevaluate your life. It's been very difficult, but it's been impactful. And, you know, in some ways, I'm glad it happened. It's been very educational. And, you know, I have hope that it will change. It may take another generation, but COVID should be the wake-up call. And the seeds were there before COVID, but COVID brought it all out there.

And hopefully, we could actually learn from it and change course. You said you got a flu shot, and then you went up in the hospital with pneumonia and sepsis. I'm sorry not to laugh at your illness, but you got a flu shot. I've never had a flu shot because I'm lazy, but you clearly believe, you know, you wouldn't have got it. You're a doctor. You wouldn't have gotten it unless you thought it was efficacious. So you got one. Has what you've seen over the past five years changed your view of other vaccine courses?

Yeah. I mean, what I've realized is I made a lot of assumptions about vaccines. It was, you know, the gospel according to vaccines. When I was in training, there was no questioning it. It was just accepted fact. They were safe and effective. And COVID made me realize, well, hold on, let's see how they were tested. And they have not been tested like other products on the market. So they don't have placebo-controlled trials. Any of them? No, not like the other products on the market. And they don't have liability protection.

So the companies are not motivated. They don't have liability exposure. Yeah, sorry. Yes. So the companies are not motivated. There's no repercussion if something goes wrong. And there's no reason for it to spend a lot of money to ensure that it's safe. So now, you know, I have seen with the COVID shot. I think there's a different degree of danger there, but it does make me question it all. And if you look at the flu shot, in fact, has never been shown to decrease hospitalization or death in people that get the flu shot. And it actually makes you more susceptible to other viruses. And you can treat it. So...

I had a child who was badly injured by the flu vaccine. Oh, wow. And for me, that was one of the drivers in not... I mean, when it happened, it was almost 20 years ago. I had no idea that vaccine... I never thought that vaccines could hurt anybody. Right. Never even in my mind.

I thought they were like one of the great miracles of science i was so proud that we developed the polio vaccine which i'm not against but um i didn't know that they had uh potential downsides and that's one of the reasons i was like a little slow to want to but anyway um what would you do so it sounds like you're not like against vaccines, but from what you just said, the system around vaccines does not put patient safety at the forefront of concern. Right.

So how would you change that? Well, remove their liability protection, require them go through- Do you have liability protection? Do I? Yeah. No, no, I don't actually i don't either um you know we need that yeah yeah it'd be nice you just can't sue me i'm such a good person what i do is so important to the commonweal

that you literally can't sue me exactly that would be great sorry excuse me uh yeah so i mean just make them go through the process any other product has to go through it's not very complicated so that that's the first thing you do yeah why isn't that happening apparently when when this it was in 1986 when Reagan put the act in place, I guess there were two companies that almost got just decimated financially because of all the the kickback, the lawsuits should have been a warning sign. Yeah, I mean, I obviously hate lawyers. I've never sued anybody. I don't think I ever will. I really hate lawyers quite as much as doctors, but in that range.

Okay. So I'm against lawsuits too. I get it. I totally get it. Some of the tort awards are insane and all of that stuff. But I also think it's fair if someone keeps getting sued for the same thing. Like if I get a sexual harassment suit for political reasons i'll get eight of them right like maybe i'm groping people right right yeah is that's fair yeah that's fair as an empiricist

you agree with yes i am on board with that yes so last question what are you going to do now that this is all over like how are you other than treating patients how are you going to do now that this is all over? Other than treating patients, how are you as a formerly politically disengaged person spending your time? I try to get away from it all as much as I can. And that's what I would advise anybody is just find something, a hobby that gets you away from things and get outside as much as you can. I probably, you know, I'm probably going to slow down my practice a little bit just to give myself some breathing room. And I still have four boys in high school. So, but I will continue to speak out and I may do a podcast. I may, I don't know. I don't know what I'm going to do, but the fight's not over.

Thank you, doctor. I really appreciate it. That was great. We want to thank you for watching us on Spotify, a company that we use every day. We know the people who run it, good people. While you're here, do us a favor. Hit follow and tap the bell so you never miss an episode we have real conversations news things that actually matter telling the truth always you

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