The Tucker Carlson Show - Ex-Freemason: Possessed Politicians, Demonic Rituals for Power, Secret Societies, and the Occult

Episode Date: May 18, 2026

Once you understand that world events are influenced by supernatural forces, what seems bizarre begins to make sense. Filmmaker Sean Stone on our leaders and the occult. Sean Stone is a filmmaker, author, actor, and media host. He has written books such as New World Order. His films include Greystone Park, A Century of War, RFK: Legacy, and the docuseries Best Kept Secret and All the President’s Men. His work can be found on SeanStone.info. (00:00) Why Do Leaders Commune With the Supernatural? (05:02) Demonology, Rituals, and Demonic Possession (45:25) What Feeds Demons and the Empire of Fear (58:49) The Spiritual Economy of Evil (1:28:26) AI, UFOs, and the War on Terror Paid partnerships with: Brooklyn Bedding: Get 30% off sitewide with promo code TUCKER at https://brooklynbedding.com VanMan: Use code TUCKER for 15% off your first order at http://vanman.shop/tucker Defend: Enter code "Tucker" for 20% off your purchase at https://defendcellcam.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Sean, thanks for doing this. It dawned him the other day, years after it dawned on you, that there are no secular leaders of anything and that people pose as, you know, science-based and non-religious. But everyone who has power in the world is religious, I have noticed. They just have different religions. And you've been on this for a very long time. So let's just start as big as we can. What's the purpose of communing with the supernatural? for leaders. Why do leaders do it?

I think there was some, maybe this is a quote or someone said this to me. There are not power, there are non-powerful people who are free masons. But there are no powerful people who are not Freemasons. Freemasons. Freemasons. If you think about the nature of an initiatory group that's been around in its current form for a few hundred years since the 1700s, right, in the UK. but and likewise in France.

But it's, you know, they say its origin, or they believe its origin, proceeds it to the Knights Templar, right, who were a very powerful order, as we know. From my understanding of the Templars, it's not the idea of like nine knights showing up in the Middle Eastern, the Crusades, right, to guard the roads, right?

It was really more about excavating under the Temple of Solomon. Yes. That was, you know, what they were interested were the ancient texts. the well of souls the well of souls that the ancient texts the things that were you know written into like grimauds and hidden you know incantations things that you could basically call upon the spiritual realm because that's the lore of king solomon king solomon is remember from the bible

you know he had wisdom and he was a powerful ruler over uh what was then israel but uh richest man in the world yeah well he had the goal but why did he have the power was because he could call upon what they called gin, genies, and he could command them with his ring, the ring of Solomon, the ring of power. And that's what he, so the real lore of like masonry, right, was that he had this builder,

Hiram Abif, who could, you know, who architected the temple, the temple of Solomon. But they had gin that they called upon to actually do the work and to build it.

Now that's all metaphor. And what are gin? Genies. What we would call genies. And Aladdin's lamp. They are the beings. So I went to Iran the first time was curiosity, but I went to go meet with some of these guys

that communicate to them to the other side. And I would talk to them about what's going on in the world. And they would say, yeah, I mean, the Jin and Islamic lore is very similar to like angels and demons or the watchers in the book of Enoch, right, who are not, they're both dark and light. Some serve God, some serve the dark side. and and so the idea of like the power of solomon was to be able to have a relationship and mastery

and some people say that he actually got overwhelmed by the power and that's why he fell right he ended up with the love affair that sort of sank his his rulership because he it's a very dangerous gambit once you start committing with that side but all i believe all the initiatory paths Freemasonry is just one of them, the most famous one, lead you to that realm, to that understanding, that there's spiritual forces invisible to us that are working through people in this world. And just because someone is the so-called Christian

doesn't mean they're serving God. And just because someone is a Muslim doesn't mean they're serving the devil. That it's the same across the entire planet, that there are forces of dark and light, working through every religion, every people, even through our own lifetime, our own souls. At any point, when you grow up in Hollywood or whatnot,

you realize, like, it does seem that people can sell their souls and maybe not even be aware of it. Because to me, it's not Satanism as, like, can be incantations, it can be blood sacrifices and rituals. It can also just be worship of the material realm. Yes. Right? So when you get into that realm of, like,

oh, I want power, I want worldly power. I think that's the satanic path. They don't think of it as such, but materialism at his heart is worship of the earth. And that's why people talk about the earth is like, it's kind of Lucifer's domain, right? Because if you worship, if you start worshiping money and yourself, your own ego,

well, you've lost sight of the transcendent power of God. There's no question about that. There's no question. And I think all of us experienced that in our own lives. But just to back to what you initially said about the Masons, so we're about 100 feet from a Masonic lodge. They're all over rural America. They're kind of a vestige of the past.

This is how I think of them. A bunch of elderly guys with ceremonial swords. Yeah. Tell them stories. I have one. You have one. I have one right over there from that. You don't think of them as a threat or even a meaningful player in current events, but then I should say I don't know much about it.

Yeah. I don't, so really at all. You joined the Masons. Why did you do that? And what was it like? It was a journey of initiation, I think, that I was going through in that time right out of college. Because in my college years, started getting deep into studying history.

And even in the Procopius was writing the history of Justinian, the Roman emperor, Byzantine emperor. And he described him as a shape-shifting demon, basically, in that book, in the secret history. And that was buried for a long time. And, you know, again, there's all types of histories that King James was it James' Bible, but he also wrote demonology book, right?

I mean, this was the way that it was, the world was perceived and understood for centuries, as we know. As a battleground between dark and light? Yeah, I mean, as forces that were unseen, I mean, Socrates talked about his daemon, like his, you know, but be called genius, but, you know, they say like in the old world, there's a theory that when Homer is writing about, you know, the Iliad and about, you know, all these different gods,

having a play in human life, the lot of people believe that we were in communication more readily with beings, right? Unseen beings. And it may have been a real factor in our consciousness back then. And then we, you know, obviously we

get to this place of the Enlightenment when all of that becomes relegated. And we say, oh, that's all, you know, hocus, and not real. We can only focus on the physical realm. But you can't understand how life begins through the physical realm. alone. You can't understand how the universe is formed. No. Right? I mean, what, okay, how does a big

ban start, you know, just, just happens, okay. Spontaneous bank. Time travel. I mean, how does it happen? How does it actually begin? Exactly from what? And how does our, how does life begin? So I think a lot of the materialists actually, you could say like, you know, people say Darwin and whatnot are essentially serving the dark side because they're saying there's nothing outside the material realm. It's, this is all that exists and everything will actually. all we're interfacing with is our own minds, our own perceptions. And so when they want us to believe,

you know, a very simplified version of reality, spontaneous evolution, random evolution, random changes, take away anything spiritual, I think that serves the dark side in a sense because now it elevates our own egos. It makes us, you know, we're the progenitors of this and, you know, we are the greatest thing in the universe and we can get into that later.

but that then serves a transhuman agenda that it's all about perfecting ourselves through the physical plane of genetics, genetic tampering and whatnot. And you try to basically take the spiritual origin impulse of God creating this universe out of the story, right? That's what the Enlightenment did in many ways. But you can't take it out

because we instinctively as souls that we are in human form, we have this curiosity and this desire to know, okay, where I come from. Like, you know, my soul didn't just spontaneously appear. How do I have consciousness? Where does consciousness originate from? Just from our brains? Well, I think we're understanding that our brains are more receivers, almost like, you know,

computers that can receive the internet that's around us, right? That's the way that we function more in that way. And that's why people have near death experiences or they have out-of-body experiences. And they, this is, you know, the CIA does this kind of stuff. projection and they can see things outside of their physical body that you can't say well your brain knew it you have all kinds of cases and stories of this you know people you know or literally on a hospital bed and they can perceive things in the next room so consciousness transcends our brain right and that indicates again a spiritual reality that a lot of mainstream science this wants us to ignore

but i was like looking at history and saying no we've always had this impulse to see a spiritual reality or what Plato calls like the ideational realm, the world of ideals before we get to the material realm. So let's not try to ignore that. So it's rare these days, a company that actually makes things here in the U.S., not just designed here or assembled here, actually manufactured here, start to finish in the United States. Brooklyn bedding builds every mattress in their factory in Arizona. Not in the far east in Arizona. No middlemen, no cutting corners, no outsourcing to save a buck. The founders started with nothing. No degree, no corporate backing,

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well, I met this guy. who was himself Mason. And he was a Jersey kid who was like my age. And we started, he would, he had been exploring these haunted places. New Jersey is notorious for being haunted. They have a whole magazine called Haunted N.J. And not just Jersey, but they know, let's say the East Coast. But especially New Jersey.

Especially New Jersey. They got some history there. I don't know what it is. And so he was exploring these places like Greystone, which was a massive mental hospital. Woody Guthrie was there, for example. And you saw it in the recent Bob Dylan movie. He goes and visits Guthrie at the Greystone Mental Hospital. This place was about, for a hundred years,

it was one of the biggest mental hospitals in the country. It was the biggest foundation when they built it until they built the Pentagon after. So it was a massive, like we went to this place at night. And even though it was shut down, it was still, the lights were still on. And it's about five or six stories tall and underground. there's tunnels and passages that go on for miles around.

So we would go explore this place at night. And let's just say that high strangeness ensued. Because he started to... It's an abandoned mental hospital in New Jersey. Yeah, yeah. It's an abandoned mental hospital in Jersey. And so from the first time that we went there and then went back, and each time it would just,

different things would reveal themselves to me in a way that I made a film about it. Greystone Park to kind of symbolize the way that fear operates to me. I believe that our frequency attracts forces. And so when you go into a place like that where thousands of people have died, they had like a mass grave, basically, you know, thousands of people that had died there over the course of 100 years. And there'd been a lot of abuse. And I think also people go into this place or would go into that place who were themselves,

you know, we'd call mentally. but a lot of them I think were demon possessed. Yes. And so imagine it's now becoming a place of very dark energy. And... Hard to imagine anything darker than that. Right. Yeah.

And so what we saw was like indications, paraphernalia, books, things like this left behind of like satanic rituals. Like people would go there and perform rituals to draw upon that energy. And... Why would someone do that? Well, so this gets into the nature of our, of this realm, right? If we, again, like we understand like material realm is what we see and what we interact with, what we think we're interacting with.

But as we know, at heart, it's just, it's all energy. Like this table is moving particles, right? Our being is we're moving particles, moving atoms, we're, we're energetic bodies that, you know, appear to be fixed. But actually, as we know, we're changing every second. every day where cells are dying and being reborn our you know our energy body is is moving and so the spiritual traditions have always understood that because you know they didn't call it necessarily energy but prana and life force breath rach right like that's the origin of of creation is something in spirit

is moving through us into this container this vessel that you know that appears fixed but again as we know it's changing. That's why we don't look the same every day, even if it's just slight differences. And as you know, like you can see in people's, you can just, you can kind of see it sometimes, right? Like you can see when someone's energetically drained. You can see when someone's energy is high and they're vibrant. Instantly. So this is all, this is, this is the energetic nature of reality. So if we are talking about a world that also is energetic and alive, And then you have geometry, let's say, certain structures, trap energy more than others, right? I mean, if you're outdoors and, I mean, we can just experience it, right?

You're out in nature, you're in a forest. The trees are going to have certain energy. It's going to move, you know, maybe like they'll, in the course they are living beings, right? So they'll live their life and die. And that's why some forests are called haunted forests or darker. you know, they're darker places. And sometimes you'll have historically, yeah, you'll have places where there'll be gatherings of people to practice, you know, since the pagan times, let's say, right, to practice different rituals. And sometimes you'll feel the energy of that. Like, oh, this is a place

where, you know, there's a gathering that takes place and a certain energy gets created there. Same way as like a building. I mean, that's what a haunted house is, right? Like, if you're in a house and it's, you know, someone gets murdered, it's going to have a heavier energy, right? Because it hasn't, unless you come and bless it and really, I don't know, do the right energy, do the work to move the energy through, to let it pass, right, to let the souls go.

And I had that experience with one of the haunted places I went to. It was like a place that was notorious. It was next to a mental hospital where kids were housed. and this was upstate New York. This was different from Greystone. And in that house next to the mental hospital for kids, the legend has it that a priest that was molesting these kids at that property and actually killing some of the kids and doing black magic.

And in that house, I saw people get possessed and we heard the sounds of hell. like coming from I mean it's hard to imagine that this is what we experienced you know we'd be upstairs and all of a sudden we'd hear howling of dogs and laughter of like demonic laughter and things like this echoing through the house

and so we went back multiple times and we blessed the house and the final time really felt a purging of energy and the house burned down on its own within about a month or two so that's the kind of thing we talk about like the energy that gets trapped in places until you come with higher frequency

of blessing a place and you know clearing the energy so again we're talking of a battle of dark and light those forces that draw upon dark energy um because they can then invoke spirit let's say darker spirits that hooks into that if everything is let's say like frequency fear things that are horrific horror films play into the psychology right it's like Freddie Krueger right he plays he prays upon he's a dream demon right he infects people with fear

and we think about how like demons are what they're scary right they're monstrous their shadows they're things that that create fear in us and then it seems to be like the frequency match almost

Do you think that's one of the reasons that Jesus so often tells his disciples not to be afraid? Yes. That's exactly right. So remember when Jesus casts out the demons, he sends them into the swine. He's like, yeah, get him out of the human vessel. And they go and kill themselves because a lot of the demonic. I mean, again, there's different frequency of demonic energy. There's madness.

A lot of psychosis we have experiencing in this country, I think connects to it. A lot of it ties into alcohol and drugs. That's, you know, lowering people's frequency. You know, it's one thing to have, you know, a glass or two. But as we know, a lot of alcohol, what does it do? It takes us out of our right mind. In my experience of seeing people get possessed, it's pretty much like seeing someone's, you know,

when someone's out of blackout drunk and we've all seen it. Someone's coked up or out of their mind with alcohol. and they behave erratically, irrationally, they get aggressive, they get mean, or they start laughing hysterically. And the next day, they may not remember anything. It's exactly what possession is.

Because when you see someone get possessed, they just, like, it's like a flip of a switch. And they go from someone you can see, look in the eyes and see what they are to just check out. I've seen people screaming. I've seen people laughing maniacally.

I've seen just check out like just staring blankly but you know it you just you know that this person's not in their right mind yes and the key is to try to bring the light back breathe bring the you know good energy back raise the raise the frequency this so they can come back to their self themselves so what I would say this battle is between the darkness that again feeds on that fear

that lower vibrational psyche of like not being in our right mind, not being in our higher selves, right? Not being connected to our spirit, our higher, you know, to God basically, right? To spirit that is always available. But the dark side wants

to lower that frequency to a place that would be closer to hell, right? Well, it's always been described as hell. Place of torture, of suffering, pain. Place of the dead. Yeah. Well, even worse than death, right? death is one thing go below that you know and it's like that's the level of self-destruction like you said with the pigs you know self-destructiveness so this is the

battle and and again if the dark side has you know waged war on mankind let's say right if we believe and this is you know this is not just Christian tradition i mean this is like a lot of the story there is yeah it's a lot of stories around the world have talked about this, you know, that there's something that's waging war on mankind. They want, they want possession of the soul. They want us to check out, to surrender, right? To check out, say, hand over control of the vehicle. And that seems to be the real battle, right?

Are we autonomous beings? We have control of our vehicles. I mean, we all experienced this during COVID. Imagine, like, you know, all this seems so far out, but like, during COVID we actively saw people check down. people checked out from fear and like dead body like dead things you know putting on masks so they can't even really breathe they can't in a court of law you can't you're like you know you can't speak if you've got a mask on right so like you don't have any say so when you put a mask on you're basically taking away your power to speak and to breathe so you're like a dead you're like

a dead thing now and then beyond that we saw the hysteria that came with it you know from fear all that fear around you're infected you might be infected this person could be infected. You didn't get your shot. You better stay away. You can't come to the family gathering. You can't come into my establishment. And if you're in California, I mean, I left the state

because it was like, I can get a fake vaccine card, but I don't want to engage with people that are mandating this. What kind of hysteria? What kind of madness is this, right? So we've all experienced that kind of possession, not like some people personally experienced it and then said, wait a minute. I was in fear and I've woken up.

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the new power move. So the Masons practice or religion? How would you describe what masonry is? Well, I mean, masonry is based in the Old Testament. A lot of the Masons I know are Christian, but again, I look at as an initiatory path, so I don't look at it as masons are evil. What I experienced was that there's, okay, so I'll put like this,

the first night that I went there, where was this? The Cornerstone Lodge in New York, which is a very famous lodge, people like JZ, go there and whatnot. It's, you know, it's. JZ's, Mason? Yeah, from my understanding, he was, you know, he was with that lodge as well, but higher,

higher than I was. But the point is that it's, it's, it's an initiation that kind of what I felt was being observed and watched. And I know it was watched because after doing the first degree initiation where you get the blindfold and the, the noose and all this stuff is online. I'm not, revealing some secrets, all the phrases and things, you know, the geometry of it where you have to walk, you know, certain directions and points and say certain things. All that's online now. It's public. But when you perform it ritualistically like a play, there are other forces that are not human that are engaging in the experience. And I know that because when I was leaving the lodge that night with my friend. We got a phone call and it was an unknown number and this sort of husky voice

was on the phone and he was like, how was the meeting? I was like, it's interesting game you guys have going here and it's like, mm-hmm. And we were just talking a bit, saying a lot of things that were like biblical, you know, 40 days in the cave, 40, some stuff that I didn't understand. But I knew that they were watching me because I was walking back to my apartment in New York. And I'm like, oh, so you're watching me. He's like, yeah, I'm like, okay, what am I doing? He's like, you're walking. So I stopped walking.

And I'm like, oh, yeah, he's like, yeah, you stopped walking. And I was like, okay, it could be a guess, but let's just go, you know, continue the conversation, go upstairs. And I had like a gray shirt on in black pants. And after, you know, I started recording the conversation. the audio did not record subsequently only the video recorded but as I was recording this basically was it was this man's voice and then it would be a woman that would take over so it was like two voices it was one as a man one is a woman and then she basically said stop recording and I was like you know I didn't stop I would maybe like stop for a minute then I turn it back on

and I had a at that time I had a cross on sorry oh it was not a cross It was an Islamic sword that I had as a necklace. And so I was taking my shirt off, and she's like, put your shirt back on. And I was like, oh, you don't like this symbol or what's wrong, you know? And it was like, put your shirt back on. And I'm like, you know, we just continued to talk. But there were a few things that I remember distinctly, including her saying, I'll leave you with this.

You're wearing a gray shirt with black pants. So something had been observing me that night. and they continued to talk with me. And it was essentially, they texted me thereafter. And it was like, it went on for an hour or so, like off and on. My friend who took me there got really sick to his stomach. He was like vomiting, actually, after that, during that same time that I was on the phone. And he really was, like, physically out of it.

And so I was conversing with these things for like an hour. And again, a lot of it was about the fallen angels. because this goes back to, again, the Jin, the unseen world, the idea that, remember, the Book of Enoch talks about this, that the fall basically is not just Lucifer. It's like Lucifer and the, well, was it, the 300, the 300, I think, that fell. But a lot of it had to do with the origin of like how the ancient, how the ancient. angels fell in love with human women, right? That's the story of Enoch, was that they fell in love with human women.

They had children, the Nephilim, the fallen ones. I guess they're also fallen ones. And this whole bloodline war, basically, I was like, you know, fallen angels having children with human women and becoming, like, the great leaders of old, you know, the men of renown, the men of renown, exactly, the leaders of the military and the, and the, and the, emperors or kings of the time, royal bloodlines. So all this came up that night. What's interesting is if you bring up that story from Enoch,

it's alluded to in Genesis 6 as well, people look at you like, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard, where does that come from, is that like a David Ike concept or something? But then if you just assess it non-emotionally, that's pretty much every religion tells that story, including Christianity. Jesus is the product of spirit and a human woman, God, and Mary.

So the Greek myths are the same. Alexander was, his mother said that Zeus came to her. Exactly. So I'm not, you know, I mean, that's not proof, but it's certainly an indication this is not like a crazy new theory that David Ike thought up. Not at all. And that's why I always say people. It's like the basis of every religion. Yeah, but that's why people get so, they want you to think about Ike as like he's the

crazy guy, but that's why I studied history because I wanted to say, no, Ike's just picking up on old traditions and he's just listening to people that are telling him stories, which I think. You can hear that story in any church in the United States every Sunday. Exactly. Right. So it's not conceptually, it's not a departure from what people have thought for thousands of years, that there is the physical reality of actors from the spiritual where I'm impregnating human women. Right. Right. Right. And again, I mean, even the Anonaki texts of the Sumerians, which predates the Old Testament,

talking about exactly this thing, about the Ananaki sky gods, creating the first humans as their workers. And, you know, and again, like the flood mythology comes from that. Right. The God was so displeased by the behavior of the Nephilim that he destroyed the world. Right.

And their behavior that he specifically called out was violence. Right. Right. And eating of, actually eating of humans, the Nephilim did. Remember? Really? Oh yeah. The giants ate the humans. Do you remember? That's in the book of in Enoch. It's in one of them. It's either, I mean, I thought it was in the Bible, but it's definitely in Enoch then because that was the issue that they were, the giants were eating people. And so this, you know, then takes us to the very, you know, present day of, you know, when, you know, the demon, you know, the lore around demons drinking human blood or like, you know, demon possessed humans drinking human blood, Dracula mythology, right? I mean, this is all, it's drawn upon the old world.

But it, you know, when I, when Hunterdice Thompson talks about adrenachrome and people say, oh, he made that up. And I go, yeah, except I talk to a military intelligence guy who goes, adrenicone is real because it comes across our messaging boards all the time. you know, adrenachrome is being trafficked into the country. So adrenochrome is a compound from the human adrenal gland. Is that correct?

Yeah, I mean, my understanding is, it's like an adrenaline. Basically, it's adrenaline that gets secreted and, like, obviously, adrenaline from anxiety, from stress, fear. And it's, you know, it's something specifically that is being used for, you know, as a drug,

or is it, you know, Is it demonic food? I don't know. I mean, again, it's not something that I've personally experienced, but, you know, it's like we're connecting the ancient world to the modern world. And it seems to be, you know, if it's one long thread, we can't, you know, we can't just ignore that. Well, here's something that thieves count on. Security cameras usually stop where Wi-Fi stops, right?

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It's very interesting to me that some of the main themes throughout human history, blood, being the life force, the spirit. The magic and the blood, right? The magic and the blood. Genetics, bloodline. These were full-blown preoccupations for every civilization before 1945. and they've just been eliminated from public conversation by media. But media is the greatest magician of all, right?

I mean, that's, it's so interesting that you mentioned 45. Obviously, that's the end of the Second World War. British broadcasting was originally part of British intelligence. Like, it was always, they understood that propaganda was key. I mean, that was first World War effort, bringing us into the First World War, getting us involved. And then obviously the Second World War the same. there was a huge amount of propaganda that was put out for it.

But then we adopted those same techniques post-45, I would say, with the various radio projects, you know, whether it was like, you know, from radio to television, right, the same concept. A lot of the guys, as you know, that were like intelligence OSS officers or, you know, part of OSS then became like executives and whatnot for the original, you know, TV channels, which, as you know, at the time was like what like four you know it was like abc cvs cvs yeah four right um and so it was very it was very important to send out messaging and then um likewise with radio it was the same thing it was like okay first radio was used you know for for information before television but then radio became the music and so it became like top 40 what was it the top 40 project like essentially it was like

let's let's figure out how to basically condition people using music music and it's no longer going to be symphonic, right? Like long symphonic pieces of music. It's going to be short three minutes or less of, you know, something that can like hook people. Cultural propaganda. Culturally propagandize over and over, hypnotize people essentially. I mean, that's what music does.

Think about the, when we engage with, it's so interesting, engaging with young people now and seeing how much like, you know, when I was a kid, hip hop was, it was kind of coming, you know, it was coming on in the 90s. But nowadays, it's like, all those lyrics, a lot of the more debasing lyrics, let's say, how do you end up with an only fans culture? Well, it starts with the lyrics that are put out through hip-hop music that's propagated to every young kid across the country. And then that becomes part of the cultural conditioning,

languaging, all these things. So I think music is one of the most important magical tools that, you know, that's used to obviously influence culture. and then obviously not just music and film. And nowadays with streaming, it's putting people into hypnotic states for hours on end, right, when you stream things into the consciousness. Yeah, or social media are hypnotic, I've noticed, and very addictive.

TikTok especially. I mean, people literally just fall asleep to it. You know, it's scrolling and streaming. So part of the point of the propaganda effort is not just to highlight lies, but to prevent people from considering things in full context or seeing the whole picture. Always.

Eliminating certain important themes from the public conversation. And certainly anything supernatural would fall into that. Blood and genetics would also be part of that. But the people who run the world never stopped paying attention to the supernatural, to blood and genetics, did they?

No, I don't think so. I mean, from my experience, and again, I mean, I have a limited experience, of it but you talk to some of these families and I mean first of all in the in the UK you feel it especially in the in England the aristocratic culture the mindset to this day they still have a king you know it's yes okay you know they still have the aristocracy and the bloodlines families and whatnot in their traditions and then you know you think about like you know some of these families talk about

they can trace their ancestry back to the Roman Empire or even before sometimes. But again, it's just whether or not you're aware, again, like whether or not you're aware of it, I think some families more so than others. The families that are more aware of it, I think, have a certain conditioning process that some people talk about when it comes to the pedophilia. I think that's more normalized. It's kind of part of the boarding school culture. Yeah.

Oftentimes, like that was my sense of it when I was at Oxford for two terms and, you know, hanging out with, you know, some people, some families that are more known than others. And they would, you know, some of them would tell me, like, you know, the boarding school culture was very, you know, you could say, you know, homosexual. And that kind of dates back to, in terms of the ideology. to Rome and Greece, remember like the idea of, you know, passing on wisdom from the male, from the older male to the younger male. Yeah. So it becomes acceptable.

And then, yeah, and then you, you know, you do hear these things about a lot of these families that are like practicing pedophilia with their own kids. And they look at it almost like a training, like a training process because it dissociates. So traumatic abuse of a young person. and dissociates them, makes them able to then, you could argue like the monarch butterfly, that's a symbol. The monarch is often described as a symbol

of the childhood programming. So basically when you are traumatized so young, you dissociate, you now have greater ability to act without moral compunction, without even knowing your own limits, right? Your own self. You basically have, broken all those barriers. Well, you do have to ask questions about a system

that sends, you know, its sons to boarding school at seven or eight years old. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Or even younger sometimes. Or even younger. Yeah, my grandfather went, you know, at that kind of age. And I wasn't good for him. I don't know why you would do that, but it has something to do with breaking down normal qualities in a young man. I'm not saying it's a pederasty thing but it does have to do with abuse has many forms there's the physical, there's the verbal

the sexual is just usually like the one that no one wants to talk about but obviously occurs so okay so you how long were you a Mason? I mean it's not like you ever established like I'm going to meetings

no I wanted to initiate to three degrees I entered in between by the way Okay, so this is why I know this gets far out, but like in between the initiation, the first degree and the third degree, in that time period, I would get phone calls from 6666 numbers all the time. 666 666. We want your soul, like just demonic voices. I want your soul. That's kind of nonsense.

So Satan called your cell. I mean, I don't know if it was Satan or the CIA, but someone with a 666 number that sounded satanic called my cell and would be like, we want your soul. And I would just laugh. I don't be like, okay, I mean, it's not mine to give. You know, my soul belongs to God. So I don't know what you're talking. I can't, I can't help you, basically. I don't know what to tell.

I think I'm jumpier than you because if I was, you know, in between degrees in the Masons and Satan started calling me, I would drop out. Well, it's not about dropping out or not. It's about initiating in your, in, as I said, it's initiating an understanding of the world. And that's why I believe the checkerboard is very real. Like, the way that it's designed is the checkerboard on the floor. It's black and white. Not all Satan is or evil. I do believe that there's the path of light,

there's a path of dark. They want to assess who you are. And as I say they, I mean, like a higher realm wants to know what you are. So I believe the people that join who choose the darker side, you know, I think I've seen it.

They basically are willing to do anything. They're willing to drink the blood. They're willing to make the oath, essentially, to the dark, because they just want power. And if they know that you're not, your soul isn't wired that way, you don't end up on the satanic path.

So again, like a lot of these were just, just kind of tests. I felt like they were just kind of tests. Like I got a call from Azazel one time. You know, Zanzel is the angel of death, right? Azazel calls. And then like a day or two later, my grandmother passed away. When my grandmother. Wait the angel of death called yourself?

Yeah. Well, it was like, now, I mean, it basically identified itself as Azazel. And. What did you say? No, I just, I knew what Azizel was. So I knew a spirit of death was around. And then, like I said, my grandmother passed, like, I think within one or two days of that call. So I was like, wow.

Okay. What did the angel of death say on the phone? It wasn't, I don't remember, like, again, it wasn't like I remember specifically an announcement of something. It was just more of like in that time period. It was getting so many calls from these things like wanting my soul. And sometimes it was witches cackling, like, you know, come play with us. Like, come, you know, come join us. Sometimes it was one time.

And it's funny, I played this on Alex Jones show, actually, back in 2012. It was a call from, again, 666, and they were doing ball worship. They were, like, calling on ball. And they were like, it sounded like they were doing a ritual. These demonic voices are like, ball, la, la, you know, they're doing a ritual on this, yeah, on the phone call. So it was almost like they were trying to, like, engage my energy for what they were doing. Do you see? That goes back to the question around the, the devil.

dark side wants more energy because again it's disconnected from god well i mean is it disconnected let's just say they're more disconnected i don't think anything is disconnected from god my perception is it's all god's universe so i don't think the dark i think the dark still ultimately serves the creator's intention i don't think you can you can't divorce yourself from the universe but let's just say their frequency is lower so they're drawing upon higher vibrational energy to try to right to try to draw us down that's the battle right it's like how many of those of the light can we bring to the dark how many can we sink to our level or if we can't they stopped after 2012 after my last degree of initiation and after 2012 i never got calls again so i just felt like it was this kind of testing phase

and it's like okay you don't belong to us who knows maybe they've taken new forms and you know not saying everything like life is obviously the full of challenges So I think the dark can manifest in different ways. But for me, it was like, it was a very overt confrontation with something that people would think is, you know, a fairy tale until you've lived it. Do you think other people at the lodge, the Cornerstone Lodge in New York,

were having similar experiences? Well, I mean, I know the person I went with did, but like some of the other guys that I knew, I don't think anything changed in their life because, again, I mean, we all have different paths, right? We all did, like, you know, my path was, frankly, initiatory. I wanted to explore these things. You know, I went all the way to Iran just to talk to, you know,

guys that were talking to Jens and trying to understand how the world, you know, is working. What drove you? Yeah, just. Well, you grew up in a materialistic society in Southern California where the possibility of this stuff was not discussed. I would. Well, no, I mean, I wasn't, you know, my dad took me to India and Tibet when I was, you know, nine, no, 10.

And we went to the Himalayas and went to like visit, you know, Tibetan monasteries that we went to, what's that, the Palazas. And, you know, they depict demons and stuff very overly in the iconography, right? If you look at the artwork, right, of Tibet, Nepal, the Buddhist cultures and even Hindus, right? Like, you know, they understand that there's demons and angels and, well, they wouldn't call it, they wouldn't call it angels, I guess, but like demigods, right? I mean, they would describe like demigods, right? More, you know, angelic, more divine, powerful beings. And then you've seen, like, the dark faces of the demonic realm. They look at everything, I think, as, like, different temptation.

So it's like you have to get comfortable. You have to face the demon. You know, you can't, if you hide it, it gets scarier, just like in a horror film, right? It's always scarier. And you don't know where the monster is. Once you can face the monster, you take away its power. or as going back to the dream demon the freddie kruger it's like i you know i take my power back i'm not afraid of you anymore that's the only way to defeat the monster i believe that yeah fear and hate also

feed the demons yeah well but ed made a whole film natural born killer is kind of about these this thing you know it's it's pretty interesting i mean natural boring killers if you watch it as two demon and possess people, which is really what they are, the main characters. Mickey, the main, you know, he's, as, he's been abused by his father who kills himself. He's been physically abused by his father. The Juliette Lewis character has been sexually abused by her father. And it's like all this kind of chaotic American media, you know, glorification of these two serial killers.

But they're going through their journey of hell, basically, like a hellscape, until they find that love, love kills the demon. Right? That's their salvation is through love. But if you watch the movie as just like two demon-possessed people, it's pretty interesting. Okay, so if we think that hate and fear feed dark forces, spiritual forces, unconscious hate. You know, I think there's healthy. There's healthy. We hate certain things that we find intolerable.

Right. But if we hate the person, if we demonize the person, right, that's feeding the darkness. Wanting to hurt other people, right? You know, having malice toward others. Yeah, exactly. And then fear being terrorized. If those are both spiritual foods for demons, how should we understand our government's concerted effort

over many years to make us terrified and hateful? Not just the government, media with it, right? Like media and government working hand in hand. Right. I mean, those kind of are the messages, really. There's someone you need to be afraid of and there's someone you should hate, you're required to hate. Well, think about the nature of the Masonic Lodges.

There's the Red Lodge and the Blue Lodge. I don't know anything. Yeah, so that's the famous, like, there's like, there's the Blue Lodge, which is more like the French ancestry, the Scottish Rite is the Red Lodge. And so think about like the Bloods and Crips, the Democrats and the Republicans as red and blue.

Also the Bloods and the Crips, red and the blue. So like this whole idea of, but people are taking, that is two wings of the same bird, ultimately. It's like both are there to govern your mentality, government, govern your mind, right? So it's like, do we want, you know,

do we want more laissez-faire? Well, Republicans are supposed to be more libertarian, more constitutional, more like, you know, but they don't, but they tend to just, you know, end up spending as much as the blue team. You know, both obviously are just dependent on the same federal reserve system, right so you could say like we've been captured by the federal you know by this debt slavery this debt slave federal reserve system since 1913 which is again right around the time that well as

we know the income tax came in which yeah totally unconstitutional and and then also the uh the first world war begins and the british bring us into their their empire because you know more formally because before that we were you know we were not supposed to be part of the European game. We focused on, you know, the Monroe Doctrine was about, you know, focusing on our hemisphere, right, bringing the Republic, you know, our republic as a model, you know, for this region and protecting this region from the imperialists of Europe, be it, you know, French, British. I mean, remember, during the, during the Civil War, Mexico had a coup by the French and the British empire actually cooed the Mexican government

right around the same time. They were trying to install their puppet there. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't work out. But Mexico then, you know, again, there's all kinds of puppeteering that goes on, as we know, through the different forces financially. So that's really, I think, the key is like America wanting to be a republic, independent of the European empires.

With the First World War, Wilson made a huge decision, which I think was a huge blunder, committing us to that war. We should have been an arbiter. We should have said, you know, we're not in favor of either empire. We're going to just arbitrate, you know, a peace deal and should have stayed neutral. But we didn't. We committed ourselves to the British Empire and the, and we set up obviously as a result of that

with the Versailles Treaty, you know, the... Hurt so many people. The Second World War followed. And we, you know, obviously, again, you can get into the whole history of the financiers behind, you know, Hitler and his rise to power. And so it was like, we're going to play, you know, Germany. against the Soviets who also got financial support from from us so it's it's the you know it became a financier's game and that's why i say like the power behind the scenes really to me is

is the financial empire and um you know the rothschilds are obviously a part of that i don't think they have to be all end all of it but they're a very important force financially city of london is a very important force and the federal reserve system which spawned from that central banking system of England. So that's when we talk about like what, you know, who's the American federal government serving. It's been

serving it's, you know, the expansion of a debt slavery monetary system, right? Because we're borrowing money every time we, they, you know, they're printing money, but they're not, they don't own it. It's not like it's not constitutional money. And the constitution, gold and silver is constitutional money.

Everything else is these paper money notes or promissory notes that's why it's a federal reserve note when you see a dollar bill says federal reserve note it's a promissory note promised to pay yeah right so it's all like it's all debt and we're just racking up you know as we know whatever at 38 40 trillion i don't know some unpayable amount doesn't matter i mean exactly it's it's not going to be you know we have to reconfigure that but it raises a question so if individuals can make a deal with supernatural forces to serve them in exchange for temporal power for success in this life money and authority and that's clearly true can nations do the same i think so i think it's it's it's a it's a kind of um well

yeah i mean again it's like uh the power of belief right as a nation and either so we can go back to john d for example um um Um, Anakian magic. Who is John D? So John D was, he was basically like the head of intelligence for Queen Elizabeth, right, at the beginning of the British Empire. Elizabeth the first. Elizabeth the first.

Yeah, sorry. Go back in time to the 1580s. Yeah, exactly, the 1580s. And D is the original 007. That's how he signed his signature. So Bond is actually inspired from John D. And he was into magic. He basically was working these, uh, what they called

Anachian magic because again, derived probably from the book of Enoch, but he was communing with these beings, watchers, what he considered angels, but, and he had these incantations. He was summoning spirits. He was working with spirits and the theory is, and basically the Shakespearean Tempest play is inspired from John Dee as the wizard in the story is basically John D. that he essentially made the deal for the British Empire

to become the most powerful empire in the world. And it begins with the sinking in the Spanish Armada, which again, as everyone knows, it was like, there was a freak, it was a massive storm. Begun on a tempest. And a tempest that basically helped to sink that, their plans and their fleet. And yeah, the theory is that he basically made the deal

to, you know, for the British Empire, but the deal required, certain level of blood sacrifice. And, you know, some people say that we've inherited the British Empire and those demons, essentially, those same deals. I can't. Especially since 45, since the end of the Second World War.

It is interesting if you think about it. So here you have this island nation with a pretty small population, take over the entire world. Quarter of the planet was under there. Yeah, quarter of the planet. It was under there. That's right.

So, yeah, large. largest empire, some ways, the most amazing empire, but certainly a vast empire. How'd they do that? Yeah, I mean, it's more than guns, germs, and steel, right? I mean, it's a, uh, economically, the financials component is fascinating, you know, how they were able to obviously, you know, doing you know with the shipping and whatnot insurance on shipping and you know they controlled you know when they controlled the seas of the western world all the way to india um even to china right they they even they were able to uh honestly control the seas and then they can they basically would trade you know they had a certain traffic where they would you know they would take the cotton

they would buy the cotton cheap from you know slave labor in america uh sell it over you know sell it over and you know across their empire in india by the tea there uh by the the tea and the opium from there from afghanistan which was under india at the time and then dump the opium on the chinese and get the silver for that it's a pretty good trade right it's a pretty good deal but the core power you believe came from a deal well what i see i see the world is like it's a both it's a spiritual and a material reflection of each other so it's so what i believe is like when people understand how these workings happen it's like if you have an intention and you let's say undertake a magical working that has enough belief behind it let's say enough energy behind it

it can manifest in physical form and this is the nature of magic so to me there's always to pass with magic see christ says thy will be done which is the creator's will the the magic of what i would say like the dark side is my will be done and that's what like alice or crow and other people like this. Yes. You know, Crowley said he was an incarnation, a reincarnation of the guy working with John D. In the magical ceremony.

So their mentality is love is under will. So basically like love is not the primordial power of creation for them. Individual ego will is more important than love. Yeah, that's a dead end. It's interesting because it points to something that I think all of us feel, which is that there's something that there's something, dark about success? It can be.

You know, there's that famous line, Show Me the Fortune, and I'll show you the crime. Yeah, Balzac. Yeah, Balzac is really reason enough to learn to read French. It's just an amazingly hilarious, insightful. Paragoreo is one of the great novel. Anyway, yeah, Balzac. Show me the fortune, I'll show you the crime.

So that resonates because, and it's not to attack all rich people, I mean, we're both, I guess, by some standards, rich people, but... There's a whole other level. There's a whole other level. Right. I mean, when you're... But again, you're talking dynastic people that have, like, you know, made fortunes on, again, dump, selling opium to the Chinese and, you know, or selling slaves or selling weapons or, you know, financing wars like the raw childs. I mean, that's a level of crime, you know, and or pimping people like, you know, like Epstein, you know, types, you know, pimping girls and boys.

But that's kind of the nature of grand success in this world, isn't it? I mean, that's maybe the reason that Jesus says it's harder for rich man to get to heaven than a camel through the eye of a needle. There's something about it, and maybe that something is the deal that is inevitably made with satanic forces in order to get whatever that success is. Is that a crazy hypothesis? You know people tell me like the Mexican cartels are doing straight black magic? They are. That's a fact. Right.

And I mean, imagine, like, these are people that are trafficking humans. They're trafficking, you know, drugs. They're killing. They're cutting off heads. They're killing with impunity. I mean. And not just killing, but torturing. And torture.

So that, to me, is always a sign that there's something religious going on. So you torture others for one of two reasons, either to elicit information. You know, I'm going to waterboard. You tell you, tell me where the terrorists are. Which, unfortunately, as we know, is not necessarily accurate information. No, no, it's not. It's not. But like, okay, but as a motive, or you're doing it for its own sake because there's something about human suffering that brings you power. And that's when we touch and pleasure.

Which is another. And maybe adrenicrom. And that's when we are bumping up against the supernatural realm, right? Because why would you, if you're going to kill somebody, why would you torture him first? But they always do. But see, I would posit it more that when are we not in the supernatural. See, I think that's the shift in consciousness that is required. The Great Awakening is that we're, you know, people have talked about, especially since COVID, is like, oh no, no, we're having one. There's no doubt. We are always under the eyes, like, we are always living a supernatural experience. We just, we haven't thought that way. We've been trained to think of it as a material existence. Yes. And the shift now is to say, no, it's, we're, everything we do

has, has supernatural ramification because it's always choice. between serving, you know, again, serving higher self, let's call it, and serving ego. That's to me, like, that's the eternal battle. Every choice we make, every, and, you know, small decisions, big decisions, all this. It all counts. And obviously small decisions probably won't have the greater impact that a bigger decision will. But if we can shift our consciousness to start realizing high behave at every moment, is it aligned with my higher version of self or not, this is what we have to do to achieve a better

world if we want to shift into a better reality you know then that falls upon us to say am i following my heart am i listening to my heart am i listening to intuition am i being you know am i being moral and good in this moment you know and i don't you know i don't think that's the whole point none of us are perfect but the whole point of the christ model is it's a model for us you know this is the way of perfection listen to listen to the words try to imitate the christ and i think we would have a much healthier reality yeah and i mean jesus is really clear that every word you utter every word will be used to judge you like every word matters exactly it's all it's all it's all life force it's begins with thought it's why like even the buddhists you know the ancient religions they always write thought

work on your thoughts to then correct your speech to then you know change your actions so it all built it's in that exact same passage where he says you know the evil heart produces evil actions yeah no it's it's so right um so that brings us to the united states which is the heir to the british empire so if the british empire was the product of this deal that john d made to bring the tempest to destroy the spanish armada launch britain into control of the west and then that control ends in 1945 with the dropping of the atom bombs on roughly speaking so So where does that put the United States government? I mean, we've been subsumed by the New World Order ideology and for a long time.

Now, the New World Order ideology came out of the British Empire. It wasn't a conspiracy theory. It was their own language because I went back when I was in my history thesis at college and I was like reading some of the minutes of these conferences. They kept saying New World Order. It was their own language. they wanted to basically continue the empire and in a more informal way

because they realized the empire was you know it was getting a lot of flack right they couldn't sustain it militarily they didn't have the manpower they wanted to bring America and clearly as they meant Cecil Rhodes who was the great imperialist of South Africa, Rhodesia

getting the diamond mines set up and the gold mines and whatnot and his benefactor was Lord Rothschild and he made you know Rhodes was in his will saying we want to reclaim the holy lands and we want to bring America back basically within the empire. So that was the agenda from the end of the 19th century. The bringing America to be like the military might of the Western financial system, right?

That takes place clearly between World War I and World War II. As you said, we then take over for the British Empire all of its former colonies and the French colonies. including Vietnam. You know, why do we end up in Vietnam more? It's a French colony. Into China. Yeah. Yeah.

Into China. Why do we, you know, take on Turkey and Greece, you know, to defend against the Soviets? That's all the British imperial realm, the Middle East. Again, the French and British carved up the Middle East. All these countries are essentially, you know, creations of the British and the French. So we inherit the empire and basically ally with this idea of, of, uh, you know, the world, the world game, Russia had been the enemy of the British, they became our enemy. And that's a whole complicated issue, but essentially, you know, partly it's dynastic families,

you know, wanting the wealth of the others. And that's perhaps why they couped the czar, you know, to get their fortune and get them out of power and put the Soviets in, partly as an experiment, partly as a way to keep the Russia out of, I don't know, I guess, you could say like separated from the Western world to create like an enemy going forward because as we know we backed Hitler at the beginning to go against Russia that was the whole deal was like you're going to fight the Russians kind of like we backed Iraq to fight the Iranians in the 80s you know it's the old divide and conquer technique so yeah so Russia had been the British enemy we we inherited that and then we basically bought into the New World Order ideology that's why we kept

going into this globalist mentality for decades, you know, of committing ourselves. But there's a supernatural element, too. It seems obvious. It was only in the last year, after a lifetime of living next to it, that I realized the Pentagon is in the shape of a pentagram. Yes. Yes. Why, of all potential architectural designs, would you put your headquartered your military in a pentagram? Again, the stars that soldiers wear, it's like, as you know, like, if you've seen movies or whatnot, like the pentagram or pentagon,

pentagram is a very common image for, can be for protection. There's an invocation of protection through it. And then there's also the inverted pentagram, which is oftentimes used for sacrifice. Like you'll, again, like you'll see it in films, right? Well, they'll put the pentagon on the floor and within a circle and then they'll do a ritual sacrifice within it.

Well, it's the central image of Satanism. Yeah, exactly. the inverted the inverted horns right it's like the horns it's the inversion of the pentagram so again it's it's we're a little dull on symbolism i notice in our our culture for some reason part of people are waking up but it's we went through this period where you know for all of history symbols really matter yeah they really matter yeah in a lot of world they still matter and then in the west for the last 80 years symbols are just null and void like your average person is not allowed to notice the symbolism in anything yeah yeah no we have to Poetry dies, metaphor dies.

Exactly. The spiritual life withers, and we just don't notice that our military is headquartered in a building called the Pentagon. And by the way, I'd learn this for me at breakfast this morning. I have no idea what it means, but I was amazed to learn that the cornerstone of the Pentagon was laid on September 11, 1941, 60 years to the day that the flight was, Flight 77, I think, was flown into it. 77 is a magical number too. So, you know, again, I think of these events as mass rituals.

I mean, look, I just learned this this morning eating my omelette, so I haven't thought about it at all. But I, that's kind of the point I'm making. Yeah. I heard that plane. I was close enough to hear the plane or whatever. I heard that impact of something. Well, we never saw the video, right? I'm aware.

I'm aware. The whole thing is bizarre, but I'm only making the point that I was very aware that it happened. I had a friend on that plane, et cetera, et cetera. Why am I now 25 years later for the first time learning that the Pentagon Cornerstone was laid on September 11, 1941? No. Like, you'd think in the coverage of it, they'd be like, hey, this is kind of, this is kind of. Yeah, the 60th anniversary, you'd think so, right? I'd never heard that.

Did you know that? Yeah, I'd read about it, but I don't even think I'd read. that like on world news tonight? At the time, I mean, I was, I was as clueless at the time when it happened. I just thought, look, here's all I knew about 9-11 was that nothing made sense because I was in Somaliland in the summer in July. And we got notices from the State Department facts saying, you know, be careful to all foreign, all nationals, all American nationals abroad.

Like there's basically like rumor around like a terrorist plot. so be like be a high alert i was in maine that summer and they didn't send us any notice at all no i guess i should have been in somaliland so so i mean we already were like kind of was like oh it's interesting that we got the notice that obviously some intel intel something's coming across intel you know channels to say that and i'm not sure if anyone ever reported on that in the um you know in the investigation of like the intelligence labs but Again, I just, I never believed the official story. And the more I looked at it, the more it just didn't add up, you know, the takedown of the towers by, I mean, just structurally speaking.

You know, you know that the plane hit the Empire State Building back in 46. Remember that? Yeah, of course. I know. It was a military plane at the time. It hit bomber. Bomber. And a collapse.

Well, Donald Trump is on tape on the morning of 9-11 saying, I can't buy. don't know how could that have happened i know those buildings well i was there when they were built in the early 70s and the steel in those things is stronger than any building in new york and there's no way but now you think about the nature of ritual and what was created was a holocaust which is literally a mass burning and uh this is i don't know if you remember the movie called wicker man no wicker man it was a it was kind of a film about these pagan satanists or you know who they do a a ritual around one of the equinoxes, I think it was like a summer equinox. And they do like a, they have this guy in this town realizing that these guys are witches.

And all of a sudden he finds himself inside of this massive wicker man being burned alive. And it's played out every summer, by the way, in a festival called Burning Man. Yeah. Here in Nevada, I guess, right, in the desert, the burning man ritual. The burning of the man annually. So, I mean, this again, these are ritual things. that people partake in without understanding what they're giving their energy to.

That's right. That's exactly right. So, I mean, up until the Second World War, it would have been obvious to every Western man that life revolves around ritual and that ritual describes to us concepts that our brains are not capable of fully grasping. You know, the communion in Christianity,

it's like, there's a great debate over exactly what that is, but it's the center to the practice of the religion, And it doesn't make any sense from a scientific point of view. You're ingesting the flesh and blood of Jesus, like what? But to Christians, again, it's the Holy Eucharist. And that makes sense to people because there's no other way to describe the things that are of this life. They're that profound. But our understanding of how central ritual is to life has just been stripped from us completely.

So we totally miss it. We don't even know that the Pentagon gets hit on the 60th anniversary of its, of the beginning of its construction. That's so, well, you think about the nature of, well, first of all, like television, a lot of it has, like, disrupted, like, ritual cycles and whatnot, like the cycles of our, you know,

of our energy of going down with the sunset, like, you know, coming in, sitting around the earth, telling stories, listening to the spirit, to the, again, being more connected to the spiritual world. Now, the spiritual world does come in through television. It's just not the way. we imagine it because we think this is like something different but it's all going into our psyche

and so as you know the brain it's processing it the same you know how do you say it's processing and taking this information just as a wood reality so it's a it's it's definitely affecting the way we interface with reality yes and and again this goes back to what we talk about the power of the magic of media and um i think you know people that are storytelling they you know they can be some are some are practicing darkness i think others are practicing light and i think there's those that are just unaware unconsciously perpetuating things but there doesn't be something very dark in hollywood and it's it's like a subversion you grew up there so did you sense that what i sense with hollywood is um

There's definitely more, like there's definitely, like, let's be clear, there's definitely a Babylonian quality to it, right? There's definitely a people right. It's a botry. Oh, okay. There's debauchery. I mean, you know, it's like everyone knew Harvey Weinstein was a monster. Yeah.

Not just with women. He was a monster with business. Of course. And I knew him. I knew that. Right. I mean, everyone knew that. He was, but he was just accepted.

and it's just like kind of like the casting couch it's just like oh it's just accepted this is the way things are you know the epstein i'm sure people you know i'm sure a lot of people knew what epstein was i never heard about him before you know before 20 whatever 16 17 18 what in that time frame but like i'm sure a lot of people that were around him just knew like oh yeah you know he's into this or he's into that because it's people talk right but it's amazing how unless you're part of those circles, you don't really know what's going on. And that's why to this day, people will say, well, JFK, the assassination, it must, you know, they couldn't have kept the secret. I'm like, people in the know have talked, but you're just not in the know because it hasn't been perpetuated

through media. So unless it gets perpetuated through media, we don't hear about it and we don't think it exists. Yeah, I mean, that you just said the truest thing that I didn't understand until later in life, even though I spent my whole life in the media. The idea that, like, you just said, Like if it's more than two people, no one can keep a secret. Well, none of these secrets have been kept. They're all out there. I've heard a lot of the stuff a million times. I just discounted it.

And it was not part of the prevailing story. We were told. So I just didn't think it was real. Like didn't, wasn't, not Cardi B. What's her name? One of these rappers just came out talking about like all this stuff in the Epstein. They're eating, she said in the music industry, they're eating babies and drinking blood. Y'all, you know, which rapper was it?

Was it Cardi or was it? I don't know. It was every week there's a new rapper. Yeah. The truth, but no one takes them seriously because they're rappers. Yeah, exactly. But she said something in this effect. And, you know, like Mariah Carey's sister said that, you know, she was a kid.

She grew up, she talked about it before she died, Mariah Carey sister. And it's in the Best Kept Secret docuseries that I put out. But basically she said, like, she grew up with things that were, like, done that were, you know, indescribably horrible. You know, like, you can't fathom. And she died, she died, like, a few years after that. but she came out saying it. People will sometimes come out and say things and it'll be like a blip.

And I think this is my way of thinking is more like if in the middle of the night I see something fly across the sky, which I've done like driving in Beverly Hills, driving home at like two in the morning, I saw like a craft, you know, fly overhead. Not so fast. It was more like a, it was almost,

I don't want to see it. It almost would be like an advanced version of a stealth bomb. It wasn't a stealth bomber, but it was like a craft that was moving very fast, low to the ground, right over Beverly Hills. So I look at that and go, okay, I've just glimpsed reality. Someone else might go, that's just crazy. I'm just going to ignore that. Right.

You know, so to me, I'm like, okay, this is, this is what's really going on. I want to look over here now. And that's just the way that I see things. And other people will just be like, I once saw a UFO. But you know what, that's just so crazy. I'm just going to go back to the mundane world. That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

But big picture of people are trying to understand not simply are they eating babies, but why would someone do something like that? Yeah, well, you get to the nature of the deal that every person faces, I think, the potential, which is the same as the temptation of Jesus, by down before me and all this will be yours. Yeah. But in exchange for whatever you're getting, bloodshed is the cost. Yeah.

because depravity. It's like, you know, once you've, once you've, it's like the dog that's like tasted blood, right? It's the, you know, you can't go back. You've, you've crossed a threshold. You've crossed a barrier that we're not supposed to cross, right? That shall not kill. Okay. Well, if you do, you're probably going to have remorse.

If you do it just, you know, especially just for defense purposes, you're still probably going to have some level of remorse. I know sociopaths don't so there's like a whole other caliber of psychology and maybe demon possession there but as humans we would have remorse but once you've gone back you can't take that back can you?

Like you've stained your soul that's something that you can't you know you can steal something and make amends you can you know you can all crime is theft but there's different degrees of theft right?

You can steal people's time, you can steal their energy, you can still belongings. But if you steal life, there's no, how do you return that? There's no restitution. I'm extrapolating out to the scale of empire here and trying to understand why empires tend to commit themselves to war even when they don't get anything out of it. Someone's getting out of it. I mean, I just wonder, though, if, like, the cost of staying on top isn't killing people just by its nature. Yeah.

Well, again, I mean, different arguments. I mean, you go back to, like, what was the point of Vietnam? You know, if Vietnam fell to the communists, like, what the heck does that have to do with anything? What's the point of the Russia-Ukraine war? Why would you want to keep that going? Right. The only thing that you're getting out of that is, you know, weapons testing and money transfer. and all the stuff, but ultimately what you're getting is millions of dead people.

Yes, blood sacrifice. Maybe that's the point. Maybe it is blood sacrifice. Right, right, to a degree. I think that's, from a higher perspective, there does seem to be truth to that. And I think, look, this is a realm of mind, right? Since the fall of Adam and Eve, we fell into mind. So before this, there was order. It was perfectly guided, let's say, and then we fell. The story is not just Adam and Eve, it's Atlantis, it's all these things, right they fell into the mind what does that mean the mind everything we experience is the mind we don't know anything outside of our own minds right so before the fall we existed well we didn't have well i mean presumably we we if if we trusted like

the lord basically just had perfected and ordered everything we didn't have choice we didn't have free will we didn't have mind we didn't have anything to mirror we sorry ourselves for the first time the mind is like a mirror self-awareness i am separate from you if everything before that it was just oneness right it was just you know you just you knew you were you could be i mean it's kind of like an angelic order let's say i mean again we're we're making assumptions here but essentially what we know is that with self-awareness comes this idea of separation and so we're in a realm of mind where everything gets mirrored in some way. Every thought has to have to manifest. With self awareness comes separation. That is the illusion of separation. I mean, ultimately, I believe that we're all

from the same oneness and I believe it's God's universe. So there's really nothing to be afraid of, right? Because we're all, you know, if we choose, we can go, we can, you know, ascend higher. We can go back to the light. But there's no, I say the illusion of separation is that. It's just an illusion. our ego feels separate our ego feels like I'm me, this is my body, this is my name, this is what I've done. So that's why I say it's a battle between ego and higher

self. Higher self is like, no, we're just instruments of the creator. I can let go of ego now. I don't have to feel like anything belongs to me. Anything I do is not mine. Glory to the creator, we're just instruments here. We're just playing our roles. Yes.

Hopefully this is, well, I believe, know this is all for our evolution and understanding and recognizing hopefully developing more empathy more you know more compassion more love that should be you know i think our goal on this planet um but yeah in the realm of mind mind has to go somewhere so if i have hateful thoughts it has to go somewhere so project how does it how does it as we know like if i have hateful thoughts or angry thoughts it has to it's going to be the way i treat my children my loved ones my family my friends it's going to go somewhere, it's going to go into war, it's going to manifest somewhere.

Yeah. Right. And that's where we are still. We're in a place of strong polarity, right? Everything is being, you know, as light it is, as it is as dark as it is in this realm. So it has, like, that energy has to go into war until we clean up our thoughts and stop hating each other.

Until then, we're going to have war. But there's also a sense in which, bloodshed, war, violence, killing is the food that keeps the dark energy. Yeah, but it starts with us. It starts with us. Like every, like, that's the whole, that's the, that's why I just say like,

the good news is they don't have any power unless we give it to them. If we give them power, if we give them attention, if we give them energy, if we feed them our fear, that's what Christ was saying. Let, you know, let go of the fear. just have faith, let faith replace the fear. And that was what I had to go through in my, you know,

two, three year journey of like having this dark experiences and like being haunted by things that were like energetically tangible, my reality. It was like, okay, I surrender. Like, I surrender to the higher power. I have faith. So you can't have my soul because it doesn't belong to you. And I think that's the point is if every one of us just, in our own lives, takes inventory okay let we have fears it's you know it's natural some fears are like deep right and

paranoid others are you know just existential like there's a there's a predator there's a threat okay but if we can like face our fears own our fears and find deeper faith we will create a better reality because the dark will have less food it's our choice does it feel like some social media are designed to inspire fear and hate? Of course. Because again, it's just, it's being perpetuated through, through people that are unconscious,

I would say, like, the, I don't think there's that many, like, dark sorcerers in the world. I think there are a few. I think there are definitely some people that commune and know what they're doing, you know, like ritualistically. But I think most people are just unconscious, and they're just seeking worldly delight,

worldly temptation, worldly power. Yes. Right? and they're just unconsciously, not sure why, but they're just like, well, that seems safe. You know, I don't want to lose my, I don't want to lose what I have. I don't want to, you know, I want to maintain and preserve,

but you can't. This world is ephemeral, it's passing, right? We know this. It's the way it's designed. We're supposed to be able to let go. And again, commune with a higher power. And that's the greater energy. And that actually was what really preserves you.

That's when you get to that place of, you know, what the saints and things, people like, that can glow and that can actually like, you know, emit light, right? You know, all these examples of what, like, what Christ is, this is where we're supposed to, where we're supposed to imitate,

is to try to bring more light into the world. And so if we're not, how do you say, if people are not there, but they're putting out these things, they're just reflecting themselves. So a lot of these, we're going back to Hollywood,

like a lot of these creators are just, that's the level that they're at. Their consciousness is at that level. Their consciousness is full of, you know, their mind is full of, you name it, perversion, negativity, angst, fear. So they're perpetuating that.

They're not coming from a higher modality. They're not coming from a higher place. But it's just, they can only reflect what they are. Do you think it's more obvious in Hollywood than in other places? At power centers. I mean, there's a lot of power centers.

London is a power center. Hollywood's a power center. New York's a power center. I mean, every city is like a hub because how much energy gets, you know how do you say like there's so many more people there there's much more attention but obviously hollywood is this magnifier of you know of consciousness and so i think that wherever the consciousness goes even collectively you could say Hollywood shifts accordingly i don't think Hollywood itself

is sitting like they're sitting there going like this is the way it is it's like they're a barometer of where consciousness is. And so it's, how do you explain it? It's almost like reflecting each other. They put out darkness. People want that. They feed into it. That's where the collective is.

The collective wants to experience this. They want to go into darkness. They want to go into experience the darkness. Okay, when you get to a certain point, you wake up. You say, I'm tired of the nightmare. And I think that's where we are. That's what the awakening means. I'm sorry, you know, it's like people saying,

okay, you know what, enough of the nightmare. Let's change the story and people rejecting Hollywood accordingly and saying, yeah, unless you guys shift the narratives, we're not going to watch your content anymore. The more we shift, the more Hollywood will shift.

So it's a dance. Hollywood cannot survive without the audience. You cannot, you know, drug dealers can't survive without the drug addicts. We collectively have to shift our consciousness and everything will change. I believe that.

I notice it with AI. Most people, including I think the people who are creating, I aren't really exactly sure what it's going to be, what the effects are going to be, but the only publicity about AI that's coming out of the developers of AI is negative and terrifying. There's been, I've noticed since this for the last three or four years, there's been no real effort to explain to you or me or anyone

how this is going to be great for us. and a lot of effort put into telling us this is going to end everything that we love, including human autonomy, our jobs, our economy, it'll basically be a slave state run by machines. That's what they're telling us. The people who are making it are telling us that. And so my instinct is they're trying to terrify us

for some reason, and it may just be because that feeds the dark spiritual powers that are creating it. Yeah, I think AI is just like everything. it's just both dark and light. You know, it's like the internet, right? You can find the darkest things out there. You can find great information, right?

You can find the books of the world if you want to read them. And it's just going to be a question of where human consciousness will take it. You know, again, I believe that, you know, again, because this is God's universe, I do have like a more positive view of like where all this is going. When we were post-9-11, it was a dark, I could feel the darkness. I could feel it before 9-11. I could feel war coming from about 2000, the year 2000, 2001. I was like, feel like I could feel the energy of war.

And the darkness of the 2000s, I felt like war on terror was literally terror. It was about terror. It was about terrorizing everybody. Yeah. You know, it was literally like terrorizing the American public. Exactly. Yeah. It was terror for everybody.

The American public, the broad. So that era was like, you know, this shift in consciousness was, you know again it was pretty dark phase i think now we are almost like operating in different realities simultaneously which is kind of cool you know and i think it's almost i feel more like choose your adventure what do you want to do with you know with technology what do you want to do with the world you know that that you're in and um and just trust that it's this this is all like this is all like for our evolution as souls um to return you know, to basically be reminded of the light, to return to the light ultimately,

to reascend, I hope, you know, in time. I think that's, you know, that would be the goal, right, is to return to a state of, of, you know, more closeness to God. That's, but you have to be separated to want to go back, right? A lot of people are looking forward to going back right now, all of a sudden. So we're told that there's going to be some kind of disclosure about UAPs, UFOs by the, federal government. What are UFOs? So I think we have reverse engineer technology

that's been talked about for a long time. Certainly like Roswell is a famous incident. From my understanding of it, something did crash, and there was a huge military response, and then, you know, the idea of a weather balloon, and then they changed the story twice. It was originally like weather balloon, and then it was like some other thing. They basically, the guy, like they had the guy that was there initially uh i can remember the name he was a military until

guy he took it back to like his family like a piece of the metal and it was it was like very strong but at the same time it was like you could actually like slightly bend it but it would come back and it was unlike any metal they'd ever seen so this was this this was described by him and then his son but he was uh basically forced to take the photo the famous photo he i think his name was Marcel like he was had the famous photo like holding the the weather balloon yeah and to say like it was it was just the weather balloon and like he basically was forced to take that picture um i think since that time we've been reverse engineering i've talked to way too many people who are part of black programs or you know i've seen you know we have a secret space program the us space

force is older than than trump like they basically brought it from like the hidden to the the more public side now. But for example, I talked to Dr. Fred Bell. Do you remember to know him at all? Fred Bell was a very famous guy in the UFO community because he had worked with the government and he was also writing books about alien technology and consciousness and things like this, quantum physics,

brilliant guy. So we interviewed him for conspiracy theory, the show I used to do with Jesse Ventura. And he was talking about mind war. like using frequency for like you know affecting people's thoughts and being able to affect people at a distance right through various technologies but off the record he was like i shouldn't tell you guys this because my cia my cia handler would not be happy with me but i've been to the one of like some of these underground military facilities and he's like i've even met what you would call like a gray

alien like he's like i shook hands with one you know And he's like, they're, you know, they're down there. Like in these facilities, we have these joint partnerships. Within 24 hours of that conversation, off the record, he was dead. He died in his hotel room before he could leave Minnesota, where he was after your interview. During the interview, yeah. Yeah. He died of a heart attack. A lot of people involved in the space program in a kind of spooky science connected to the federal government. have died or disappeared recently yeah like a lot it's like 11 that they've confirmed missing or dead

yeah it seems like a lot nuclear yeah from everything from like fusion programs to nasso scientists certainly in the age of you of disclosure which we've been living through the last few years it's it's more curious uh at first i thought people were saying like the china they were suspecting the chinese but do you remember look i mean we still never got an answer to those drones no last new jersey last last year, they were all over, not just Jersey, they were all over like from Eastern Seaboard, right? Virginia, I mean, multiple states. I mean, you get this kind of stuff all the time,

you know, these anomalies. I actually asked about that because Trump was gonna disclose what it was, remember during the campaign? He said, I'm gonna get to the bottom of this. And then he said, ah, it's not a big deal. And I asked, well, I gotta, it's not a big deal. Gepstein, Lepstein, not a big deal. Yeah, that big deal.

But what were those? listen i i look at this world i mean you ever see those paintings some of those old paintings and you see like these little drone looking things in them i just look at this world like we are being observed you know the watchers they're again dark and light they're observing this this experiment of the fall right we've fallen but god is always watching god's permitting and you know there's beings that are interested in our genetics that's for sure um the eugenics thing is ancient why are eugenics is ancient well we talked about it like the idea of um creating humans some of which were of royal bloodline or from like deities and

others are just more like workers um i think it's ancient i mean isn't it curious like the different races you know where do we do we all just come from one race and we become like darker skin lighter or are we actually like different blood lines right they're different blood types so is it just evolutionary or is there something else you know going on in terms of i think you know genetics connects to consciousness because as we know like the eugenics interest it's extreme i mean by the way we gave birth to hitler because the eugenics conferences were here first they were british and american eugenics conferences and a lot of them yeah we're racist absolutely but the interest in the idea that like consciousness as we talked about

the brain and like is a receiver then of course different genetics are going to receive information differently you know the body how we experience reality is is through this body so isn't it if you know if we believe in souls

and you know the the journey that we go through in our life our body is very connected to that experience so of course there's a fascination with you know how much um is a contingent on our genetic makeup and our propensities for example i for about 50 years of the united states it was basically not allowed for people to mention any of this in public because it was hitler stuff or whatever they said about it they changed the name they

called it um they changed it from eugenics to uh what's a cold spring harbor they're doing at cold spring Harbor basically the same research. It's just genetic, what's the term for it? Anyway, they called it genetic research now and like, you know, bio-tech, I think we call it. Yeah, biotech and things like this, but

it's the same principles. Maybe not based in the same racism, but some of it's, I'm sure some of these people are still racist, like Epstein, who called everybody goy that wasn't Jewish. I mean, some of these guys are still racist. But yeah, I mean, they just changed change the name. It's just interesting that even as the public has been absolutely banned from talking about

this stuff, the people in charge are very fixated on genetics. Yeah, that doesn't surprise you. Why should it? I mean, again, if this vehicle, it's pretty interesting technology. I mean, the body's incredible technology. That's what freaked me out so much during COVID was like the whole MRI, uh, the delivery system, right, that they were trying to inject us with. And as a lot of people were warning, that MRI technology can start to affect your genome and might be passed on to your children.

I think it's been confirmed now. Right. So pretty scary stuff that they were just mass injecting into hundreds of millions of people. But then, and now we know that it can affect your DNA. I think that's beyond dispute. But I haven't read any follow up and like, okay, what you're changing human beings generationally? What are the likely effects of this? And that's the transhuman agenda. So transhumanism, transhumanism you could say is the evolution of eugenics to the place where a lot of these elites want to biologically re-engineer the human. And arguably, they want to get us to a place where they can merge us with the AI, the machine consciousness, to make us, well, You could say like an H.G Wells type of scenario, right?

You have the elite who, and some of whom love the idea of like Elon Musk, you know, connect me to the machine, connect me to the computer so that I can be smarter, right? And then, you know, arguably those that are, you know, more mundane will either not have the ability or they'll be connected in a way that they can be more readily controlled. Is this what we're going towards, you know, a cyborg type of future? Seems clear, right? it's certainly feasible i don't think in the next five years but probably 20 30 years and beyond you could see a whole new humanity what do you think the point of the covid exercise was

hmm um multi-layered they they wanted i mean it seems that they wanted to shut down the world and print money on mass they know they didn't have a war like to do it right without a great war they needed some kind of conflict. This exercise was a way of, I think, testing consciousness to see how pliable, compliant people are. And obviously it was, like I said, frightening just to see your friends and neighbors just becoming like the Borg in Star Trek.

Just obey, wear your mask. Do not question. If you question you're crazy, you're dangerous. You should be, at some point, they were talking about moving people to concentration camps. for quarantine camps they were talking about um digital tracking i don't think they achieved fully what they could have or what if the dark side had won let's say prevailed we could have be kidding me we could have been what chomsky said those of us that were unvaxed we could have been pushed out of

society you know they could have created a total digital you know verification of how many shots you've had and you know if you obeyed or not i mean the the social credit system of like you know a communist society, they could have gone all the way. I don't think they, I don't think they won that battle. But I think it was a big test to see where our human consciousness was. I noticed you didn't mention public health is one of the reasons for that campaign. Shifting our, which in which aspect? Well, the inherent threat of the virus.

That didn't play any role in this. The virus was a perfect virus in so far as it was very contagious and I think we all got exposed to it. And I think the virus does have long-term effects that we should work to clean out, but things like ivermectin and other can help us with cleaning that out of our system. But it wasn't like a particularly deadly virus. No, I mean, just look at the numbers. It was deadly with if you had two plus comorbidities and you were over 70 years old. Yeah, that was, that was dangerous. But anyone who was paying attention, you know, I was, we knew about ivermectin. we knew about hydroxychloroquine, vitamin C, zinc.

I mean, just health protocols, being in the sun, fresh air, all the things you would normally think would be healthy, you know, keeping your weight normal. Yeah. So last question, so many things are happening at once right now. One thing I've noticed during this conversation is you seem completely unsurprised, nonplussed by all these crazy things going on because you've just seen the world through this vantage for so long

that it doesn't surprise you. Is that fair? Yeah, I think that when you've grown up seeing conspiracy reality, which I saw since I was like six, seven years old and my dad made JFK, I don't try to assume anything because I'm not in a position of one of the elites that's, you know, apparently, you know, making these types of decisions, right? Right. So. But you see a UFO and you say, I'm looking not at an anomaly, but at reality. Yes. Yeah.

So that's a different way of looking at the world. So, and probably a better one. But given that worldview, you see now the unresolved war in Ukraine, this new war in Iran, which seems like it is already a global war. Who knows? The promise of UAP disclosure. the rise of these terrifying dystopian technologies, mass surveillance, AI, all happening in like a five-year span. What is all of this?

They're clearly connected phenomena out there, definitely connected phenomena. Any one of these things would have been enough to fry my 30-year-old brain if these had happened in 1999. I guess it was, well, look, the NATO war, and Serbia was pretty, it was relatively isolated with that region of the Balkans, but, you know, that region was devastated by, you know, that era. I keep emphasizing the people, look, the world

ended many, many times already. I think if we lived through World War II, we, can you imagine, like, the devastation of that time period? I mean, maybe 100 million dead, um, the entire world, engaged at some level of the conflict. Just, I think that we can't really, we have to get back to like kind of primary principles of, okay, is it really as bad as the mind might want it to believe? You know, and the fear wants us to believe. Yes.

So I don't like to give, get into those, like those, give into those fear narratives. I truly believe that the light is prevailing. people are waking up every time something, you know, is occurring. We're in a time now where it's like thanks to the social media component as much as we can say like, yeah, there's banal things. There's like degrading things. There's things that maybe like take us out of ourselves or into our lower self. There's also so much revelation coming at the same time.

Right. So we can have these conversations now that, listen, I couldn't talk about the pedophilia, cannibalism stuff back in the 2000s when I first found that about it because, you know, I was. reading like the Franklin scandal and the Franklin cover up and things like this right this was back in the um in the 80s and 90s that they were you know the the trafficking right and franklin and it had to do with Larry King who was very high up in the Republican National Committee and um you know stories like this that I know about different Larry King yeah different Larry King exactly the black Larry King not not not the CNN Larry King um and you know I couldn't talk about these things publicly But gradually, I've seen consciousness awakening.

My journey has been so interesting in that regard. Like, I was doing conspiracy theory, but just even sure, back when it was shut down, because we were asking, you know, we were asking all the right questions, apparently. But the network, True TV shut us down because he had challenged, I think he was, I think it was because of the episode that he did about FEMA, FEMA camps. maybe was that like he triggered something yeah but there were some things that he was we touched upon that were like okay the show is canceled so nowadays you know if he'd wanted to you know we could have shifted it to like you know a tic-tok channel or something we could have we could have continued it

all these conversations that we were having about the skinwalker ranch now there's shows on Netflix about skinwalker ranch um the uap stuff you know coming out the hybrid programs the reverse engineering being discussed in Congress. So I feel like the awakening is more important than the events themselves. The events themselves, because like this is a reality where unfortunately, yes, like it's painful. It's full of suffering. There's sorrow. Our loved ones are going to die one way or another. Everything's going to pass in this world, right? So what matters is are we awakening to the reality? Are we seeing the spiritual forces that are at work? And if we can again choose light instead of darkness, I do believe we can create a better reality. But it starts with awakening and realization

not being, we're going to put this in the corner. We're not going to discuss the pedophilia. No, that's being discussed openly now. We're not going to discuss, you know, the rape and murder and cannibalization of kids. No, we're going to discuss that. Because by becoming aware of it, now we can get to a place of, okay, all this somehow exists in our reality. Let's choose a better version. Yes. It shows a better version of reality, right, where this doesn't happen as prevalently, if at all. So the awakening is worth the suffering that leads to it? It's the only way. It's the only way to awaken is to suffer. It's what Buddha, even, Buddha sees suffering in the world. He says, I want to understand what's causing this. Get to the heart. You know, he wants to awaken,

right? He wants to create a more compassionate reality, even though he knows that suffering will still exist. so it doesn't have to be as evil as cannibalizing people and murdering women and children and all these horrible things but there will still be suffering in our reality at this point of human experience right we're still going to suffer illness in old age and death until you know god decides that we enter more golden age Sean stone thank you very much it's a pleasure