The Tucker Carlson Show - Mike Cernovich on Epstein, Demons & Spirituality, and Feds Embedded in the Conservative Movement

Episode Date: July 18, 2024

Mike Cernovich doesn’t talk on camera much any more, but he’s well worth hearing. (00:00) Intro (02:21) Why Mike Cernovich Wanted to Disappear (15:36) Cernovich’s Election Predictions (25:58) How to Avoid Evil and Despair (38:00) Why Would Anyone Want War With Russia? (1:14:16) Cernovich’s Advice to Young Men (2:02:55) Jeffrey Epstein (2:20:53) The Debate Paid partnerships with: ExpressVPN 3 months free at ExpressVPN.com/Tucker   Unplugged  Get $25 off a new phone with code "Tucker"  https://Unplugged.com/Tucker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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time. Visit your local Chevrolet dealer for details. Welcome to Tucker Carlson Show. We bring you stories that have not been showcased anywhere else. And they're not censored, of course, because we're not gatekeepers. We are honest brokers here to tell you what we think you need to know and do it honestly. Check out all of our content at tuckercarlson.com. Here's the episode. How do you live on the internet without having it destroy your brain? I went through that in 2017 and where I felt like my brain was becoming a little bit dopamine fried. So for me, I just said, I'll just do less. And I went to DC less and I did less of, I made myself irrelevant in a way. So there was a point where I was on a real arc to be a big deal. And then my brain was getting fried.

I looked at videos of myself. My face was all red. I was just having this inflammation because the cortisol. And I was getting calls from people in DC three or four in the morning. And I was breaking a bunch of stories. So I was like, oh, phone, kids. And I realized I was losing myself to this world, this digital world. And then I go, man, I don't want to, this sucks, dude. I'm going to have to figure something out. Can I ask you, what do you mean it's cortisol? What does that mean? A stress hormone.

So when you're under stress, fight or flight response, you're going to have cortisol and then cortisol is inflammatory. And then that's what makes a lot of people who maybe are healthy, look a little stressed out because you bloat, you hold water. Yeah. There's a lot of things that go with it. So a lot of people, when you leave a high stress job, people will be, oh, I lost 10 pounds. No, you lost about five or 10 pounds of water.

Yeah. Because you're not, oh, the buzz, the buzz. Right. Oh, I got to respond to that. Wait, so you felt like you were succeeding too much? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I love that.

Yeah, objectively. Yeah, and then... Most people fret about not being successful enough. Yeah, but it's how you define your spiritual world or how you define what you want to do with life. And I noticed that I got tired of people, like, for example, me doing this episode with you. I almost didn't do it because I go, oh, man, I'm going to have a bunch of people texting me.

How do I get on Tucker? What's Tucker's number? Can you get this thing to Tucker? Everyone has my number. Yeah, no, I know. Like everyone on the planet has my number. But they're so incapable, they can't find it. Right.

And then my DMs will be blowing up. And that was the problem is people, oh, get this to Don Jr. I saw that you were a thing where Don Jr. is. Get this to Trump. And I go, no, man, this is not really what it's about. So the only real way to describe how I ended up in this weird world was it was a gonzo. It was a ride. It wasn't a deliberate calculated move. How can I become a whatever? Because I was an influencer before

there was a term influencer. I was recognized in public for what I wrote on the internet. This is before you can make any money doing it. This was before there were brand deals. This was just people had blogs or people on social media blowing off steam or goofing off or whatever. And so I was very early to what's now known as an influencer. But so you start, I mean, you had a completely different life. You're a lawyer. You live in California, but you're not from there. You're not basically where you decided,

where you thought you would be 20 years ago. But you start succeeding in this new world, but I still don't understand how it came to you that you don't want to be as successful as you are. Well, I decided I wanted to become irrelevant. And the reason is because- That's the opposite of what most people want. Right, I wanted to be, I have a story about this. I won't say who it is,

but I was having dinner with a friend of mine and I was working on my next book, which was called Audacity, How to Go from Nobody to Somebody. And it was a discussion of, again, influencing before people knew them as influencers. And it was about brand building, getting your message out, rhetoric.

And I was having dinner with my friend and he goes, you know what? By the time you finish this book, you're not going to publish it and you're going to call it How to Become a Nobody. And I kind of laughed and said, oh, ha, ha, ha. He was right. I never released the book. And – But you wrote the book but didn't publish it? Yeah.

Just felt it was too vainglorious. Felt it was too self-celebratory. I felt like my ego was seeking external validation too much and then i was losing who i was and losing what i wanted to do and lose because i my whole philosophy is wait how did you come to that did your wife mention it to you or no no i quiet moment you realized you were going to become a worse person? You just, you feel it. Subtle, subtle little things and little gestures. You would Google your name.

I don't have a Google alert on my name. I don't know anything. People occasionally send me this. Have you seen this? No. And I'm not trying to act like I'm too cool for school, but I don't do that. Cause you'd Google your name.

You'd name search yourself on Twitter. What are people saying? Do I got to respond to this? And you become become a little you become a brand not a person right or you become an account that's how they refer to people on x formerly known as twitter oh that's an account and i say no but that's what happens you lose your humanity and you're no longer humanity you're more like a cyborg or you're living in an augmented reality of social media where you, whoever you are, doesn't exist. And you're engaging in some kind of performative dance for a mob of people who don't necessarily have your best interests in mind. Who's that completely crazed chick who has the mental breakdowns on camera?

I think she works at the Washington Post. She's from Greenwich. Yeah, yeah. Taylor Lorenz. Taylor Lorenz. Yeah. Who on one hand is loathsome, but every time I've ever seen her, I just, maybe I have too many daughters. I feel so sorry for her because she's clearly been destroyed by what you're describing.

Oh, a lot of people do. There's a certain look some people have when they're in front of a camera and where they're, this is where they want to be, right? They ham it up for the camera. Yeah. And I had always been the opposite. So for me, my biggest, if I had an influence on this, it was, I don't know if you ever watched some Dr. Eugene Scott on satellite radio. Well, Dr. Eugene Scott from my childhood in California.

Oh, there you go. Even better. The university cathedral. Yeah. The guy, the public access guy who would sit in a chair. Get on the telephone. And yell at viewers. Yes. When I was in like sixth or seventh grade,

my brother and I would fire up a bowl and watch Dr. Gene. And he hated his viewers. He would say, you're not, you're disgusting. I told you to send me money. And his phone banked behind him. That's the guy. The voices of faith. He was incredible. Yeah, I grew up. so we had a bootleg satellite radio transmitter and

we picked up dr eugene scott and he he's probably the greatest influence on me and how i do media because i'll go on these raves anyone's listening to this or watching this? Just hit pause. Go on to YouTube. Are there tapes of him? He's got to be long dead. Yeah. Yeah, he died years ago. One of my life's regrets is I never went to the University Cathedral before he died.

And that was one of my memento mori moments. Because his affect, his way of communicating was so strange. How was he an influence on you you seem much less strange okay he sits around reading books the the most obscure knowledge and would go down these deep rabbit holes that nobody really cared about and then am i boring you am i boring you and he would scream am i boring you do you want to hear more get all the telephones and then they have these horse videos because he was a horseman and you just have to see these horses videos and i thought this is the coolest mo mofo that i've ever seen in my life this guy's amazing and he was a phd he's a brilliant guy genius guy he'd know

all this trivia and i thought man that's cool i kind of want to be that guy when i grow up and did anyone else on your block want to be Dr. Gene Scott? I don't know that anybody in the world wanted to be Dr. Gene Scott. No one in the world. I don't know that anyone else but me found in this to be an aspirational character. And I would watch him for hours a week,

especially because it was the only thing that my, because we were very strict household, what we could watch. My dad would let me watch him forever. So for me, that was one of the few things that I could watch and I could watch it with my dad. And I was obsessed with his delivery style. I thought it was cool that he just sat around and read books. Because if you think about it, people go, what do you do for a living? And the answer is that I read books and write about

what I read and what I find interesting. That's it. And there's no more there to it than that, but there's a lot of there there if you look at it in that context. So he would be framed by piles of books, and it would be the most weird stuff, at least growing up in a small town, books you'd never heard of. We didn't have amazon.com back then,

and I thought that'd be cool as you sit around and read books, talk shit, yell at people who are watching you, scream, go on tirades, smoke cigars. Where do I sign up for this? How do I do this for a living? Watching it was almost like a masochistic experience

because he hated you, but he commanded your attention and then told you to send him money. And a lot of people did. Well, I don't know that he hated you as much as I, because I grew up watching pro wrestling too. I viewed it more as a bit. Because I think that he had a genuine smiley effect to him.

And I think that he did, I think that he was happy and enjoying what he was doing. I viewed it much less that he had contempt for his audience, but more that he was a rabble rouser and he was doing a bit of a pro wrestling bit. He was a heel. He was an intellectual heel so if you look at rick flair was rick flair a good guy or bad guy well rick flair didn't hate the audience right the bad guys would run in the iron sheik would run in cussing people out he didn't hate his audience that was his bit right so dr eugene scott that was his bit he was a heel an intellectual heel and he was having fun and And I think the audience was

in on it. And if the audience is in on the bit, then it becomes fun. No, that's a much deeper reading than I was capable of giving it, but I think you're right. So you decide to disappear, become less relevant. How do you do that? And did it work? Absolutely worked. I don't have people asking to to find out how to get in touch with anybody in the trump campaign or anybody who sounds like you just pull back from politics then well unless i pull back from politics i did this video and i i thought one of my epiphanies was i was reading a book and because it goes both ways so i don't know if you've ever gone to a modern bookstore anymore but it's pretty depressing and then you'll see a book and you'll see the author is some crank on twitter that is

a completely not credible person so i can't read history books anymore because i read these historians on on x and i go oh they're lying about trump i can't listen to dan carlin podcast hardcore history i can't listen to any of this because when you read what they're writing about contemporaneous events you realize there's nothing about them that you can trust in any of their storytelling with that and then i reached another epiphany where i was reading i like paul paulo aquila books a lot and he's famous for the alchemist but he's written a bunch of other little side quest books i read hippie recently and i thought i don't know what this guy looks like. I wouldn't know if I saw this guy in public. I don't really care what he had for dinner, but I like his books.

And then I thought, I want to be more of a book as a metaphor. I'm a book. You read my ex account, you scroll, you read it. That's interesting. You get mad because I maybe word things in a way that you don't like, but you don't really care that much about me, the person, right? It's more of the words. Whereas when I was doing a lot of live streams, a lot of videos, there becomes more of an emotional component to it because TV is way more powerful. Video is way more powerful than audio. Video is way more powerful than the written word. But less enduring. So in my mind, I thought, well, I'll do fewer streams because I would do these very popular live streams. And I just quit doing them.

And I found that that made me significantly less relevant. But happier? More content. You know, there's a great book on the happiness hypothesis. I've studied the philosophers. You know, I was a philosophy major in college and I learned that happiness is a dragon, really. It's not a destination. It's more about, it can only be obtained indirectly. So, I think less about happiness and I kind of rejected that,

oh, are you happy? And more along the lines of, is it meaningful? Is it impactful? Is it significant? Is it having the desired outcome for the world and the desired outcome for me? And in that regard, much less relaxed, much less stressed out. I have much less cortisol pulsing through my body. That's for sure. I can wind down easily. So for example, I can raw dog a hike four hours

and raw dogging a hike for hours. And raw dogging a hike means no audio book, no podcast, no radio, just me and my thoughts. It's called raw dogging when you don't have electronics on you. That's the new meme. When you can raw dog. That's so pathetic. You raw dog it, yeah. But that's how attached. Like it's an achievement.

Well, we're all cyborgs now. Not me. Well. I hate that shit. Yeah, it's getting attached. Like it's an achievement. Well, we're all cyborgs now. Not me. Well. I hate that shit. Yeah. It's getting there. Yeah. But if you can do that for hours, that's right.

I don't wear headphones in the gym. So I did much less disconnecting from the augmented reality world or the virtual reality world and spent more time in physical world. Raw dogging. I thought that was like no condom. It is. But, you know, memes change and language usage change. Amazing. And that's what it means now.

What's going to happen in this election? Nobody can know because the Democrats have all these tricks up their sleeves that people aren't prepared for. That, for example, what they're doing now with motor voter registration is they're registering illegal immigrants who come into the country and they'll just harvest those ballots, right? It's real easy to do. We have 10 or 11 million people in it over the past couple of years on the Biden administration. You register them all to vote. It doesn't matter because they're not going to vote. So there's no voter prosecution and there won't be any record of voter fraud by them.

But you have all these names now. And a swing state, remember, elections decided not by the popular vote, it's decided by 50 to 100,000 votes in three to four states, right? So all you do is you need 8,000 votes in Georgia, push them through, right? 20,000 votes in Arizona, you have all these extra names now added to the voter rolls. Push them through, right? Wisconsin has those drop boxes back. Push them through. And you don't need to do it on the scale of millions. You just need to do it strategically. And 10,000 here, 20,000 here. So that is why we don't know what's going to happen in November. There's no way to know. If you're wondering how big tech got powerful enough to void the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States,

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I mean, if that's correct, that's so dark. I almost don't want to dwell on it. But then that's why it would be fine if Biden stayed then. Well, we want Biden to run in November. I think he's the weakest candidate that we can have. But there's a new enthusiasm happening, knowing that if Biden stays in the race, they have to save Biden because now there's real peril. People took it for granted that Biden was going to win, Democrat voters especially, and now they're thinking that he might not win and that'll drive more Democrat voter turnout. It's going to be hotly contested, man. It's going to be hotly contested. People saying Trump's up

two on this poll, Trump's up three on this poll. None of that matters. It's going to be a hotly contested election and people are getting lackadaisical. Well, yeah. I mean, there's a huge scramble in Washington to, you know, I want to be secretary of this or secretary of that. Or I mean, they're acting like it's done. Yeah. They're acting like they've won, which I don't like. There's a lot of congressional races that are close that people need to watch out for. Democrats might take the House. They think they're going to take the House.

What's being done there? And unfortunately, not much. Unfortunately, people aren't running on the issues that they want to run on. So for example, I was talking about this yesterday on X. And in Orange County, there's a real concern that Orange County could become like the Bolshevik-run Los Angeles County. So a guy ran, Todd Spitzer ran for…

Which is right next door. Ran for district attorney. His campaign, his camp, Todd Spitzer ran for district attorney. So in the district attorney election, the campaign slogan was no LA NOC. He won by a two to one margin. Orange County. What did he mean by that? He meant no crime.

No crime waves like they have in LA. None of these homeless encampments. None of this bail reform so-called happening in Orange County. Just lets criminals circulate. Prosecute criminals. Basic stuff. It's in a way you feel like mentally stunted that you have these conversations. No, it's so true. No, you're in a surreal parallel reality where you go,

oh no, you see, the way to win, Republicans, is you want to enforce the criminal code against people who murder people. You want to actually put criminals in jail. And then you have these weird, surrealist moments in yourself where you think, did I say that? Am I stupid? This is banal. Why are we talking about this? It's right. And you go, no, but it is banal. It's utterly stupid. And yet that's where we are as a society. So you do have to talk about it. You have to talk about it all the time. You have to remind people of this all of the time, because that is the dumb world

that we live in. And it does feel sometimes demoralizing because you feel like you're talking below your intellect, right? As a writer, as a speaker, you want to talk about issues that interest you and that you find novel, right? Oh, I read this book. What's this book you read? What's that about? Oh, I went down that rabbit hole. That's cool. And so much of our time, unfortunately, has to be devoted to saying, okay, Republicans, crime is bad. People don't want crime. You're running, you need to talk about crime. And then you see them talking about everything but crime. And you think, no, okay, I have to grab you by the shirt. But Todd Spitzer did talk about crime. Yeah, he won by two to one in a 50 50 so that well i would think that

every other republican ask michelle steel ask these orange county congress members how much they're talking about crime ask them when's the last time they had a press conference about crime oh but i'm running for congress it's a national issue no it's not it's local right running for congress is not a national ballot referendum it is a local election that's right you need and they don't understand these things and you think how do you not understand these things and then i think i'm wasting so much of my time with mediocre people who either have no will or there really are this dumb and what am i doing with my life so that's where you have these existential crises i've been there but it's why wouldn't you talk i mean

crime there's no defense of it at all so and you're a republican you don't have to be for crime you're not for rape so why wouldn't they talk about it it can't just be stupidity they feel pressure not to i think that they don't understand the issues in the way they should and that they get too much caught up in the dc think tank realm and i don't think that they're being told you can't really talk about crime i think that in their gilded world, they don't understand what the issues really are concerning people. They don't have any kind of concept of how bad it is in certain parts. And I do think that they're afraid of the media attack. So when the Orange County District Attorney ran for office, the media, of course, attacked him, smeared him,

fascism, far right, this, that, but he overwhelmingly won. And as you know, Republicans are controlled by the media in terms of the narrative they're so afraid of a hit piece right they're so afraid of negative press coverage that they allow the media to dictate the agenda why would you let your enemies control you that's the philosophical question right that's the question is why are Republicans so pathetic? And I've spent a lot of time thinking about that. And I think that there's a strain of Christian nativity that people don't like to talk about because then it seems like you're, oh, you hate Christians now, Cernovich. You're anti-Christian. And I say, no, if you read the verses in the Bible, they say, you got to be gentle as a dove, but wise as a serpent, right? Everybody skips over

that part. And you have to ask, where's the serpent type wisdom? Where are you not understanding these issues? Where are you not thinking? Where are you not being shrewd? And they aren't. They have this negativity and they have this gullibility and they have this weakness that comes from being too nice. So, the biggest problem, one of Nietzsche's great criticisms of Christians that I think has held up well with the inversion of morality and how Christians became a morality of a slave-type morality, which is self-sacrifice, self-abnegation, denial of yourself. Well, in one way, these are good Christian virtues, which is, if you think your ego is getting out of control it might be good to become a little bit less relevant it might be good to take a step

back from the limelight these might be good things to do for your heart but that doesn't mean you let somebody kick in the door and torture you to death right and but or rape your wife or hurt the people you love or kill people whatever the case is it doesn't you don't let that end up like the czar uh lined up against the wall with your family while the bulls bulls kill you right there's too much of that strain of weakness that has infected a lot of the modern christian traditions to where they don't have really an understanding of it and they're the ned flanders all god by golly gee can't we all get along kind of types and then it. And they're the Ned Flanders, oh, by golly, gee, can't we all get along kind of types. And then because of that, they're more open to being persuaded by evil forces because they don't have that strong grounding and that courage to stand up against

evil. Well, they certainly lack courage. What's evil? How are we defining evil? We define evil as anti-human. If you start from, I like C.S. Lewis's take on this, which is whether it's true or not, I think it's a good way to, by true, I mean, whether it's a metaphor or it's literally true, people can debate. But if you think of the fall of the angels, and then you think of humanity, you would understand that the demons are at war with God's creation as humans because humans still have God's love. Humans are still capable of experiencing divine grace and experiencing God's love, whereas the demons who rebelled during the fall are not. So, what they want to do is implement anti-humanist policies and have human suffering and have human despair and you can feel that

force again whether it's a literal one involving actual forces or whether that's a metaphor you could say the evil would be anti-human but i mean it almost has to be a supernatural phenomenon because by definition human beings would not be inclined to be anti-human animals don't act against their own interests animals don't commit suicide there's a lot of strange elements of the human condition a lot of that suggest outside forces that are not human acting on humans yeah humans given to despair in a way that animals don't despair would be incomprehensible to other animals what's that that wonderful D.H. Lawrence poem? D.H. Lawrence has this great poem about watching a bird,

it's two lines long, drop dead of cold and fall from the bough dead to the ground and not feel a moment of self-pity. Right. I mean, that is kind of the difference. Right, that's us. I remember one time we hit a deer, I was with a friend and the deer's back broke

and it just kept running to try to live, right? Whereas a human would immediately think, oh, my life is over, right? So we have this fatalism in us. Something bad happens to us and we define it in, oh, my life is over. No, it isn't. Your life's in a bad spot, right?

It sucks. It might suck for a while, but your life is not over, right? So, then what is that despair? So, I think, when I think about these terms, I think of what is evil or what I think is demonic, I think in terms of the worst thing you can do as a person is despair. Because one, that rejects the divinity of Christ because you're rejecting that you can be saved. Because if you're despairing, then you're saying that I reject Christ, right? That's probably, if not the greatest sin, one of the greatest sins, because I'm in despair, okay? Therefore, you don't believe Christ can save

you. You're completely under control of the forces, right? The dark forces. and then i think of evil in terms of causing human suffering and being anti-human so that's interesting how do you fight i mean if you've got your head in the internet all day and the civilization that produced you is collapsing and evil is omnipresent and hurting people before your eyes including people you, how do you keep from despair? Well, because the timelines are different, right? In our primitive minds, we think, oh, this is the worst. Everything's falling apart.

No, it isn't. We're not even in Bolshevik era. We're not even in communist China era under Mao. We're not in the Cambodian genocide. So there's a lot of, and this goes back to maybe why Republicans are so weak. A lot of us have been so psychologically coddled that we view things as being insurmountable problems that we can't solve. I think it was

Mao who said that Americans would break if there were ever a war in America. We've never had, World War II, everybody was bombed. That was was real despair we were the guys over there helping the british bomb people right certainly in america we weren't being bombed we had women had to go work at factories and other things but it was nothing like europe and their wars so in america we're so psychologically coddled that we think oh we're like we're losing our country you're always losing your country time does not stop stop. The world is not static. There's always forces being pushed. There's always a dialectic.

There's always good versus evil. There's always been lower points in humanity and higher points in humanity. So we don't know where we are, even on the cosmic timeline, on God's timeline, on the demon's timeline, on the angel's timeline. We don't even know where we are, first of all. That's mistake number one, is that we are, our own mind gods and we understand the moment that we're in And we understand that the moment that we're in is so unique and that there's a narrative arc happening That is either over and we've won because you never win

Or we're losing and oh my god, we fall into despair. So the problem is I call it like the marvel The marvel movies capture this well. You don't watch TV or movies and I can't even watch them because they're so formulaic. But the idea is here are the people, bad guys come in, destroy things, hero emerges, good guys come in, good guys beat bad guys. Good guys kiss the girls. The end, right? And that's what we love in the American mind. But if you looked at it and you zoomed out, not from that simple narrative arc that we love as Americans, you would say, well, now these buildings were blown up. People are dying. People have lost sons and daughters. People are wailing in agony in ways that we can't begin to comprehend. And you haven't even won because there'll be another bad guy. There'll be another bad guy coming down, right? So you haven't,

what do you mean you've won? The good guys won. No, the good guys have resolved the conflict in their favor. And now you have to rebuild. And then you're gonna have politics and people fighting as a rebuild, who's going to get the contracts, who's getting ripped off. You have all these kids now that you have to watch out for. What are you going to do with them? Right? So when you think of it in that way, it can either make you despair more because you feel totally helpless. Oh my God, these problems are way worse than I thought. Or you realize, ah, we're going through a thing, right? We're going through a thing. Okay. This is a bad thing we're going through. Let's see what we can do about it. So there's a term that I picked up from

the ayahuasca kind of people in that little scene. And I think it comes from addiction and they say, the only way out is through. And it sounds sort of glib, the only way out is through. What does that even mean? But it means when you're in the shit, you're in the shit. You're in the shit, bro. What do you want me to do? You want me to hold your hand? You want a milk and cookie? You want a little snuggle? You want a baby bottle?

You're in the shit, bro. What are you going to do? Sit there and cry yourself to sleep? No, you just keep going. The only way out is through, right? So when you adopt that as the way you live, it doesn't mean you don't have bad days, but you realize, yeah, I'm in the shit. Okay, what am I going to do? Call mommy, get a little blankie, maybe have a bottle, suck on my thumb a little bit. No, you're not going to do that. Right. You just keep pushing through.

What's the closest you've been to despair? I mean, I've been in despair and the human world over money in hindsight, kind of laughably, small amounts of money. But at the time when you don't have any and you're like i wasn't approved for student loans i got approved for student loans and then i didn't get approved and then i thought i was gonna have to drop out of law school because i couldn't get my student loans and now looking back at it i was like wow i was bugging out over that right but at the time that's your whole world yeah so the the smaller you define your world the bigger your problems seem right so if you want to world. Yeah. So the smaller you define your world, the bigger your problems seem, right? So if you want to have less despair to find your-

The smaller you define your world, the bigger your problems seem. Yeah. That is wise. Yeah. So that, I look back at that now and I think, oh my God, I was borderline suicidal over just a financial problem. You know, like I could have just worked for whatever, right? There's a hundred different ways to solve it and so i had a ton of despair there and then i've i've definitely had despair

over despair maybe it's not the right word but close to it where we get trump over the finish line 2016 and he's going in and all of a sudden the people who got him in there pushed in the side And all the people who opposed him take over. What do they say that the people who start revolutions rarely finish them? Yes, and I thought we're living this right now and I was bummed man. I was bummed that we took all these personal risks that we made this happen, an impossible feat. And all of the people who were never Trump ended up in the administration, ended up staffing things. And that made you feel like despair, maybe less of a word than powerless, where you're like, we did the right thing. And sometimes you feel that way with these Republicans. You're like, we gave you Congress. We gave you Trump. We gave you

the White House. We gave you Congress. We gave you the Senate. And we can't do anything. We can't do anything. Nothing is changing, right? Or we get the Republicans' Congress in this last election, and they still send all the money to Ukraine. and you're thinking what do you what are you guys doing they were confirming all these radical judges and the senate and they go oh well lindsey graham is rubber stamping all these appointments well block them and committee do something right so you're in a way you're screaming into the void like what are we doing why are we doing this Why do I have all these gray hairs over this stuff? Yeah, and if I but again, that's that's me and my own ego defining the problem small Right, and then that's what or defining the world is small

As everything is based on that one issue and then that makes the problem seem bigger Then I just try to zoom out remind myself. We're on a longer timeline. We're on the timeline of infinity Do what we can do that doesn't mean give these people a pass I just try to zoom out, remind myself we're on a longer timeline. We're on the timeline of infinity. Do what we can do. That doesn't mean give these people a pass. But the despair sets in when you think, what more do we need to do? We've given you guys everything. And even now with Trump world, Trump is going against a Project 2025 people.

And those were his most loyal staffers. These are the adults in the room that he's going to need if he wins. And a bunch of never Trumpers are at his ear again and tell him to issue statements going against all of these people. And you realize, man, we're going to relive 2017. But Biden is so bad that we've got to vote for Trump, but the energy isn't the way it was. Like when we voted for Trump in 2016, we were not voting the lesser of evils. That was why a lot of people like me who didn't care about politics

or didn't really care to vote got involved. Do I really care if it's John McCain, Barack Obama? 100% I don't, 100% I don't. Fair. Do I really care if it's Mitt Romney or Barack Obama? 100% I don't, right? Do I really care if it's Mitt Romney or Barack Obama? 100% I don't. Right? Because Mitt would have done more wars.

So Obama would do things worse on social issues, but Mitt would have had us in a war with Russia. Immediately. If he could have. So you think, okay. Do I care? Not really. Clinton versus Trump. We're talking about the fate of human civilization.

Yes. Trump. We're talking about the fate of human civilization. I say this to this day, and I believe with all my heart, that the people who voted for Trump in 2016 did the greatest act of human charity in maybe human history, because tens of millions would have died had Hillary Clinton won. They had their whole game plan, bro. They were going to go get in some kind of war with Syria. That would have led to some shootout with Russian mercenaries and American special operations troops. People like Joe King can explain all that. Eric Prince can explain all that. The table was set for war with Russia.

We were able to delay that. So we were able to say- Can I ask you just a dumb question, but why would anyone want a war with Russia? Like, what was that? So you're saying back even in 2015, 16, ghouls like Hillary Clinton were planning on war with war with russia why well they need a big war they it's just big war but why russia because they're a legitimate power and it would be a real war they were tired of these little

tiny land disputes where we're winning they need they need massive destruction and why because they were i mean they worship evil they want more humans to suffer if you look at war from yeah good answer i mean so if if you look at war and you start with the fundamental definition of evil and what evil is then you would realize that the demons don't care which side of the war they're on. All they care about are humans are killing each other, right? That's their own agenda. So that's why when I hear people talk about things like, oh, we'll have a civil war in the US, I go, well, that's demonic.

And you don't even realize you're a demonic influence. What do you think a civil war is like? Have you looked at what happened in Yugoslavia? You look at the aftermath of that? Show me where, show me you have a civil war and this is a good outcome, where this is something that you want to idealize. Right. It's demonic, but they don't think that they're like, we're the good guys and we're being oppressed by the bad guys. That, that is demonic influence. We're the good guys. They're the bad guys. And I, first of all, do believe we're the good guys. And I do believe

that the other side of the bad guys, but once that leads you to down that road, then you're, the demons are smiling because they don't care. Oh yeah, you are the good guys. You're the moral, you're the righteous. They're the evil ones oppressing you. They worship demons. You're the, you're the good Christians. You need to go to war with them. You're still in that frame, right? So everything about human flourishing is trying to escape that frame the framing of the anti-humanist forces real or metaphorical and then you realize that there are people who are obviously convening with these evil forces consciously or unconsciously do you think in some cases consciously i i i'm not i don't believe that because there there's not enough wisdom that you would have if you were convening with the entities. Good boy.

Yeah. It's not something that you would know. I can tell if somebody's been down that route and you're like, no, no, these people, they don't have. How can you tell? There's an infinite divine wisdom that you access when you pierce the veil between the man's world and the spirit world. And when you go over that veil or pierce through that veil, you are immediately humbled because you laugh at how much pride you might have had as a person yes you think oh wow i thought it was hot shit oh i'm nothing here i'm nothing here oh my goodness

okay and that's probably why it's able for me to become less relevant over the years because the danger is then you become too egoless and you don't do anything right so you become complacent yeah it's tricky right am i living in pride am i living in boastfulness okay i don't want to do that but if you don't have a little bit of pride you don't have a little bit of drive you don't have a little sizzle then maybe a message doesn't get across too so you're it's constant this constant tension right but the the spirit world realm they show me oh yeah i mean that's it's tension it's a tension, right? But the spirit world realm, they show me, oh yeah, I mean, that's, it's tension. It's always tension. It's always duality, right? Yen and yang, if you look at the medical staff, two serpents, you look at DNA, two strands, there's always tension, which is why

despair happens when you think that there's a final outcome in one way or another. And then complacency happens when you think nothing matters. And then complacency happens when you think nothing matters. And then hubris happens when you think that you've won and the game is all over. Yeah. And you don't realize Julius Caesar gets stabbed in the back by his friends and little supporters. Great.

The cold war ended, but history has not ended. Exactly. Yes. And that once, so once you just embrace the dualistic struggle within yourself, then you realize, okay, I do need to do a little bit of this, but I can still struggle against the baser elements of myself. I didn't mean to pull the conversation into another direction.

So thank you for explaining that. 2016, if Hillary had won, millions would have died in the wars that she planned i think that's absolutely right um voting for trump stopped that at least for the time being but you felt despair because you felt that trump himself was subverted or allowed himself to be subverted by people who hated him and it made you feel powerless demoralized yeah it's probably a continuum so despair would maybe be overstating it but on the continuum it'd be demoralization and yes and where you think oh man i can't believe that i really i can't it's like if you got your kid a new car and the kid crashed the car right away while drunk driving yes you think why brother

why right yeah no why why and there's but that but at a magnified intensity yeah because it was the country most of us well actually all of us go through our daily lives using all sorts of quote free technology without paying attention to why it's quote free who's paying for this and how think about it from it think about your free email account the free messenger system used to chat with your friends the free other weather app or game app you open up and never think about it's all free but is it no it's not free these companies aren't developing expensive products and just giving them to you because they love you they're doing it because their programs take all your information

they hoover up your data private personal data and sell it to data brokers and the government and all of those people who are not your friends are very interested in manipulating you and your personal political and financial decisions. It's scary as hell. And it's happening out in the open without anybody saying anything about it. This is a huge problem. And we've been talking about this problem to our friend Eric Prince for years. Someone needs to fix this. And he and his partners have.

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Sign up now at DAZN.com slash FIFA. That's D-A-Z-N.com slash FIFA. Mom, mom, did you see my race? Of course I did, darling. Look, you did your best. You tried. The thing is, it's not about winning. It's about taking part. Next year you might do better.

But I did win, Mom. You did? When it's sunny, make sure you can still see. At Specsavers, get two pairs of glasses from $149, and one can be prescription sunglasses. Hey, the sun won't wait. Visit Specsavers.ca for details. Conditions apply. Have you felt despair in the last couple years um i mean i felt despair in spirit travels during those um those sessions yeah you feel

you get in touch with that human emotion of despair. You get in touch with the darkest side of energy and the more challenging parts of being a human, for sure. But you're not driven to despair by the news on Twitter. Oh, that's such a small potatoes compared to the spirit world. It's small potatoes. It's so trivial compared to the real war happening and the real forces at work that it's hard to even take seriously to the

point that i have to reel myself back in but you do have to take it seriously even if it is small small stakes compared to the real compared to the real conquest so what are the real stakes the real stakes is one on the individual level your immortal soul that's the real stake the the greatest challenge that i have every day is trying to sanctify my own heart and my own soul. Because what I've learned through various experiences, and then reading a lot of the old Orthodox Christian wisdom and learning actually how Christianity was supposed to be, it was more and why I never really resonated with Protestantism. If you want to go, I mean, so Protestantism, I feel like is very mind-driven.

Here's a scripture. This is what the scripture said. I'm a Baptist. I can't drink alcohol. And somebody else would say, oh, well, Jesus turned water into wine. And you're fighting sola scriptura. You're fighting by citing different references in a book that is sometimes contradictory, right? And then, but the real spiritual traditions, remember, Christianity

started out as a mystical tradition. We look at now as, oh, here's the Bible and the Bible's the word of God. And you realize, no, the Ethiopian Orthodox Christians have books of the Bible in there that you haven't even read, right? You guys are still fighting over whether the book of Enoch is real or not, right. What are you doing? You think you have the answer? Is it? Do you think? Oh, for sure.

I think it is. And what I've learned is that you can learn from the heart. You have to learn how to think from the heart, rediscover beyond your own conscious, but realize that your heart has its own intelligence, which I thought would be woo-woo kind of laughable stuff, right? I'd read these books like the four agreements um San well louise, I think his name is don miguel san luis I would read paul coelho and I would think oh what a bunch of to be honest like what a bunch of pussies Right. Come on. I'm a man. I don't want to read about my heart

I don't want to read about crying. What a fucking what a bunch of pussies, you know, who are these people, right? Honestly, that was my reaction and assessment of a lot of the stuff. And then I realized that was my own foolish pride, my own hubris. That was realizing that I was afraid of the heart. I was not strong. I was weak because of my own mind. I convinced myself to hide from the heart, because the heart is a source of your pain, also the source of your great joy and love, right? So if you live in mind and you live in ego, you constantly paper over heart. And you think that's because you're strong. I'm a real man. I don't cry, right? Where'd that come from? You're a real man. You don't cry. Why are you afraid of crying? I'm not afraid of crying. That's an interesting reaction, right? So as you do, as you study the more of the

mysticism and the real spiritual traditions and how it was practiced, then you realize that the heart is its own intelligence. And then you're trying to rediscover the intelligence of the heart. And once you rediscover the intelligence of the heart, that's the higher morality. The higher morality isn't the words we create, the rules we draft out. The higher morality is in your heart. But we become so disconnected and detached from the heart

that that sounds ridiculous or it sounds like pussy shit, you know, woo-woo pussy shit, right? It doesn't in my hearing anyway, but it does raise the vital question, you know, what does good look like? You've described evil, but so how do we know that the impulses of our heart are the right impulses?

Yeah, good is love. Good is human flourishing. Good is flowers blooming. Evil is wheat fields being cut down in Ukraine as people kill each other. People who are brothers separated by a line in the sand kill each other. There's no flowers. There's no children dancing. There's no gardens flourishing, right?

That's evil. That's death. Life is love. It's human flourishing. Flowers blooming, children laughing right c.s lewis once said that it was a great feeling of his that he didn't find the laughter of children satisfying he found it kind of annoying right yes and he'd never had children right but he but even not having them he realized that he was missing because that's heart yes heart is you hear a kid crying on a

plane oh i hope the kid's all right. Me being an asshole, shut your fucking kid up. Don't you control your kid. You're weak. That's the ego, the male. And it's that part of me that I was trying to get away from and that I've been still trying to get away from. The male egos worship me. I'm so great.

I'm so relevant. Share my stuff. Read my stuff. Oh, the president read this. I'm so great. I'm so relevant. Share my stuff, read my stuff. Oh, the president read this. I know this guy and this guy's important. And that's the male ego. And that'll just spin you out of control forever. And then the heart is, man, I kind of snapped on my kid.

I feel bad. I hope my kid's okay. You know, I shouldn't have snapped on my kid. Why did I snap on my kid? Oh, because I was, in that moment, the kid was was marrying something about myself i don't like that's that's the truest thing right there will you explain that a little more well we and this goes back to even aristotle why we why we judge and we often judge harshest and others that which we don't like about ourselves but often we're in denial about

those aspects of ourselves and so we don't even realize that we're doing it. We're judging them because we don't like that part of ourself. And you don't realize, no, it's that part of yourself that's broken. That's what you want to fix, right? Yes. That's what you want to think about. And unfortunately, not enough people talk about it. Or it sounds woo-woo.

Or you get down a certain tradition or you're... Well, that's just the most obvious and real thing ever for every parent. I mean, if you like your wife i speak for myself i when i see my wife's good qualities reflected in my children i love it when i see my bad qualities reflected in my children it drives me crazy right and and then what so what do you take away from that when that happens that you know i should be more patient and less judgmental. And in fact, if a child is displaying one of your ugly qualities, you know, you know what it's like to struggle with that quality. So you should be more compassionate. But of course, I'm speaking

for myself, I'm less, I hate that. Right. So I think that some language that I found that was useful and what you're dealing with and deal with and what we'll always deal with for the rest of our lives is a lot of our work as parents is closing those loops of childhood trauma or closing the loop of whatever your issue is, right? Because the way we perpetuate memetically our worst parts of ourselves is through raising our children, right? And what I try to think of is closing the loop. and when I see something in my kid that bothers me or triggers something in me I think well why is that happening and then I think how can I have that child not continue continue this right how do you how do you break that how do you

break that cycle and how do you how do you close that loop and I think that becomes a lot more important than getting people elected into office I think if more of us did that well how do you close that loop? And I think that becomes a lot more important than getting people elected into office. And I think if more of us did that- Well, how do you do that? You see something ugly in your child that you know comes from you. You've transmitted something either genetically or through conditioning to your child,

whom you love most in the world, of course, that is like bad. How do you fix that? Well, the more you've learned about yourself, the more that you can transmit the knowledge to the kids. I'll give you a very basic example. My firstborn has first child energy. And that's very nice.

First child energy is leadership, knowledge, often giftedness, inquisitiveness. She's always reading books. She had this little rubik's cube and now she's saying dad can watch a youtube video on how to solve the rubik's cube all great energy firstborn energy but a lot of firstborn kids because they're put into that role maybe that we as parents have to watch out for of being a caregiver for other children that's right we want to ask ourselves, one,

am I robbing my daughter of the magic of childhood and the wonder of childhood? Hey, go watch your brother. I got to do this, right? Maybe I'm robbing her of the wonder of childhood. Okay, I need to calibrate that. Sometimes they do got, you know, life is life. Right. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do,

but at least I'm mindful of that. Or am I having her grow up too fast? Okay, why don't I just take a walk with her one-on-one? Just take a walk and just talk with my daughter. Just about her. What's going on in her mind. Let her ramble on. Let her talk about what she finds interesting.

Don't ask questions or try to direct the conversation. Just kind of like let it flow. And then when you're doing that, you're closing the loop of a, because in my case, I didn't, I was sort of robbed in my childhood a lot of ways. And because I wanted to grow up, I don't want to get out of the situation. And you realize, no, you're letting them be a kid. They still have to, we all have to live together. And it isn't perfect all the time, but you're letting the kid be a kid or another thing first children do Is because they have to look at the well-being of everyone they'll negotiate against themselves, right? My daughter, I don't know if I want to ask for this dad

What do you want? What do you want to ask for? She's like, well, I don't know if I should ask for it because I think my other my sister I think wants ice cream But I really want this And I would say well don't negotiate against yourself. Ask what you want. I can still tell you no, maybe it won't work out, but let's close that loop because I noticed that I would negotiate myself against myself sometimes in business dealings. And it was something my wife would point out where, especially because I was never really like a greedy money-driven person, A lot of times I would be more compliant

than you would expect giving my personality, right? Giving my personality, you might think, put a dollar on the table and he's going to fight me. I'm thinking, why are we fighting over a dollar? This is stupid. Really, this is dumb. But people will take advantage of that, right? So I had to learn much later in life, unfortunately, into my 30s. And even now, in my late 40s, I had to learn, no, no, you don't negotiate against yourself. Don't worry about them. They're worried about themselves. They're self-interested actors.

They're going to try to get as much as they can out of you. Let them worry about themselves. You worry about yourself. And I realized, oh, that's first child energy because I was always worried about, is everybody okay? Is everybody doing all right within the family realm? Well, keep that to your family. So with my firstborn, I do want you to negotiate against yourself with the family. I want you to think about everybody with the family, but I want you to know what you're doing.

And then have tools to know that when you're going into business or you're dealing with other people, put that energy aside. How old is this child? Seven and a half. Does she understand? Oh yeah. Yeah. She's a old soul. Yeah.

So a lot of my, a lot of my virtues, but a lot of my existential dread, I had a lot of existential dread at a very young age. So one day, for example, she was, I don't know, maybe five or six, but she was young. I remember she was young and I was waiting for this and hoping it wouldn't happen. We were hanging out one day and she was, dad, I feel weird. Why do we have bodies? I thought, oh man, oh no. The genetic, whatever spiritual curse or blessing that has been passed on for all of these centuries or millennia is with her because that was very much how I felt like a kid. I felt like this body isn't mine. Why am I here? This doesn't make any sense. I've always felt alienated from

my animalistic materialistic body. I've always felt like it was weird that we had bodies. I was a Gnostic as an early kid. What is this thing that I'm, what torture am I being subjected to by having to live in a body, right? And there was nobody I could talk to about this kind of stuff. They lock you up like a nut house, right? Sounds like a nutty thing. And I was like, so I told Sean, I said, well, she's asking, you know, she's asking these kinds of questions now, but I'm able to treat them differently maybe than it would have been when I was a kid, or maybe than I would have been treated when I was a kid. What did you say? I said, it's weird, isn't it? What are these things flopping around, right?

It feels weird to be kind of disconnected and alienated from your body. And we're here on a spiritual mission. And that's why we're in these bodies, where this bodies is part of the spiritual mission that we've been sent on since the beginning of time, and that we're on a spiritual mission to discover the mystery of the human bodies.'re on and we're on a mission to elevate humanity and to elevate

the human condition and you have these gifts but along with that comes the responsibility to elevate the human condition to elevate society but that it is weird and it's normal to feel you told your seven-year-old she had an obligation to elevate the human condition? When she was five, four and a half. Oh, yeah. Light times in the Cernovich household. How did she respond? She said, okay, okay, dad.

Yeah, I don't know that she did, because I don't want her to wear that as a burden. Of course. Right, but she's like, okay, dad. How'd you get over, you were telling me at dinner last night, I won't betray anything, that's up to you, um i think it's fair to say you had a like stupendously shitty childhood like almost never really heard a story like that before you don't seem you wear it very lightly

you don't seem tormented by it how'd you get over that reading a lot of self-help books and yeah yeah nothing nothing deeper than that realizing that your past isn't what defines you the lowest thing that happened to you isn't how you define yourself and then that's what brought me into media was the brain is inherently it's a great book on this story we're obsessed with stories right campfire tell me a story let's regale ourselves of stories that's how we transmit knowledge but with our own brain that gets hijacked because we tell ourselves certain stories and then we often frame them in the most miserable, man, that was wild. And I got out of there alive. What a trip. And you can define it that way. Or you can define it as, here are all these things that happened to me. I'm garbage. I don't matter. I'm scum. I don't deserve love. I don't deserve good things in life.

And then you can define that as your story. And if you define that as your story, that's the path to despair. That's the pathway to depression. So you made a conscious decision to see your childhood as this kind of maelstrom that you escaped and feel grateful for that? It's this thing that happened to me. And then if I want to give into ego, it's a great thing that I overcame. Or if I want to forgive people and love people, I can say my dad worked shitty factory jobs, never cheated on my mom, never smoked a cigarette, never hit us other than the traditional spanking culture that existed at the time, never got drunk, he never did anything. And he did the best that he could with the knowledge that he had and what a sacrifice did he have? And am I grateful enough as a son to appreciate that,

to understand what it'd be like to be broke, to be on welfare a little bit, the shame that a man must feel when he loses a job. My goodness, what did my dad go through? So I got on my own, myopia. Remember, we always want to define the world larger than ourselves. The more we focus on ourself, the smaller we define the world, then every problem is so big.

That's right. the house because that was a $200 a month payment, which was a ton of money back then. And how different would my childhood have been? And how lucky am I that I got out? And how many things could have gone wrong in my life and completely all through the course of my life? So, hey, buddy, you're so proud of yourself. You think you're such a great overcomer. How much luck was there? How much of that was divinely inspired? Maybe a little bit of it was. Maybe you need to get over yourself. Maybe you need to get over your little pity party and realize that things could have gone a lot differently, right? So, I'm always consciously reframing the story of myself and the narrative of my life in a way that is zooming out wider and looking at what were other people's problems. What were they, you do? I mean, a friend of mine, you know, you do ayahuasca.

He was beat up as a kid and he was, you know, he had ayahuasca experience and he saw himself getting beat up as a kid and he saw his dad, but he saw that his dad was beat up as a kid. And he was like, Oh my God, my dad was beat up as a kid And he was like, oh my god. My dad was beat up as a kid Holy shit. That's why he did it and it doesn't excuse the child abuse but when you When you zoom out and you realize that was what has happened

Then you don't blame yourself And then if you don't blame yourself, you can forgive yourself Right because it's not that you're unworthy. It's not that you don't don't deserve love It's that that person felt that way and they transmitted that knowledge in a really horrific way And then you're allowed to forgive them and then you're allowed to move on and you're allowed to to heal yourself Because it wasn't really your issue, right? and often these realizations are,

it's very easy to talk about it like it's nothing, but when you're in the shit, when you're in the work, these are not easy conversations to have with yourself. So I get in the shit and I go into those places and I go into the darkest experiences that have happened to me. And then I do feel that torment. I do feel like I'm being

attacked. And then the only way out is through and you just keep going through it. In a world increasingly defined by deception and the total rejection of human dignity, we decided to found the Tucker Carlson Network and we did it with one principle in mind. Tell the truth. You have a god-given right to think for yourself our work is made possible by our members so if you want to enjoy an ad free experience and keep this going join TCN at Tucker Carlson comm slash podcast Tucker Carlson comm slash podcast what's going on with whites and not just in this country but in every white majority country whites are becoming the minority uh they're hated they hate themselves they're not reproducing and

the amount of energy expended by our leaders sort of openly disparaging them encouraging them effectively to kill themselves or to to want to kill themselves uh is overwhelming i'm not saying this as a white man though obviously i am um but it's just it am, but it's very striking and it's global. What is that? I had a weird experience when I was in South Africa visiting. And in South Africa, you have basically a cell. You lock yourself in a cell when you go into an apartment. So you get Airbnb, you open the outside cage, you go in, and then you open another cage to go into the bedroom, and then you lock that cage. go into the bedroom and then you lock that cage. You have to have all these layers of protection. And I remember talking to some

white South Africans about that and they go, oh, well, it's just payback for apartheid. And they shrugged it off. And I said, I can understand maybe a little bit looting is payback for apartheid. I can understand a little corruption as payback, but horrific violent crimes is not a proportionate response to something that people did before you were even born. And ever since then, I've been struck with the mystery of this collective racial guilt that white people carry around that nobody else does. If you look at any other ethnic or racial group, no one carries around this strange guilt for sins that were committed before you were ever born. And I don't understand it. I don't understand where that comes from. I don't understand the

biological basis for it, the spiritual basis for it, because carrying around collective guilt, racial guilt is actually anti-Christian. It doesn't make any sense at all. And it's a knot that i haven't been able to unravel i mean it it does seem like they're disappearing the just like as a numbers matter and even saying that is forbidden which itself is really revealing i mean if this were true of you know comanches or aleutian islanders or han chinese you know if they were diminishing in number really strikingly really quickly over a short period of time you'd be like what the hell is going on with filipinos you know what i mean they're not reproducing everyone hates them they're

dying uh but even to say that about whites is like somehow bad or something and that tells you that we've all internalized this hate white people thing. You really don't know where that comes from? Well, a great example of that is that if you look at gun deaths, this is how they bring the stats on deaths. They go, oh, there's 50,000 gun deaths a year. When you look at it, it's suicide. It's almost exclusively white male suicide via firearm.

And I always said that if you really cared about gun deaths you would immediately do an intervention into white male suicide because that is the primary usage of do you know white men have killed themselves personally not personally no i know a friend who had an overdose with uh opioids so i guess i know a lot. I mean, I'm probably, I'm several years older than you, but I know a lot. I know like five at least. to confiscate people's guns. That would cause a lack of social cohesion that none of us even want to think about. All of that is fake. The real thing you would go after is gang violence and you'd go after white male suicide if you cared, if you actually cared about gun deaths. You wouldn't point out the occasional tragic school shooting, which is statistically very unlikely, even though they're horrific when they happen. would say okay we have a gun violence problem to solve how are they being used okay most of the people killing each other with them are gangbangers

and then you have white males killing themselves let's do an immediate i mean it's laughable to imagine this happening in a world that were logical and not driven by hatred, you would see all kinds of interventions, public service announcements happening about white male suicide. It would be one of the biggest issues people talked about. You would say, did you have any idea? Most people think you're lying about the stats when you tell them, oh, no, half of the gun deaths that they bring up are suicide. And white men are 3.5 times more likely to kill themselves than anyone else and people that can't be true like well you can go black women are the most oppressed group in the united states that is a an article of faith for everybody we hear that every literally every day um but the suicide rate among black women is like

negligible well nobody yeah nobody's ever been able to square the circle of how media imaging suppresses the self-esteem of black Americans who have almost no suicide, but it's building up the white self-esteem within the whites are the ones killing themselves. There's no logic. Right. So it's so, I guess that's kind of my point is not to whine about it because I hate whining about anything, particularly about race. However, it's so illogical, it's so like absurd that it suggests that there's something deeper going on, which is people are kind of happy when whites die. And that's obviously true. Oh, yeah. There's a deep hatred that.

There's a deep hatred. And it would just be, it would be a lot easier if I weren't white to note this because you're a white supremacist if you note it. But even that, it's like, stop complaining about people dying because if you complain about it, you're evil or something. Like that whole formulation is so sick. Yeah, the framing is not only you can't talk about it, but if you talk about it, then you'll be labeled a white nationalist,

a white supremacist. You're thinking bro i'm talking about suicide i thought you wanted fewer gun deaths right you're telling me that you want fewer gun deaths and i'm telling you here's a way to do that and now you're saying no that's actually racist to say that that's a way to say where does it come from i guess that's my question is where does that impulse come from is it is it envy i mean white men have you know created a lot the overwhelming majority of technological advances for example in the 20th century you know electricity the airplane etc um is it that that makes people angry is it is there

something spiritual going on like what is this and it does seem to be helpful just to acknowledge that this is absolutely real the numbers show it the mass migration around the world into majority white countries to make them minority white countries clearly driven by hate obviously um but where's that hate come from what is that the ethnic groups have always hated each other like the rwandan genocide for me was always a hard thing to wrap my americanized brain around yes yes because if you're american your whole world is there's white people black people and once you go there no no they know it's so true the cambodians hate the vietnamese and the thais hate each other i remember everyone hates the chinese yeah yeah right and then the han chinese hate the other chinese right yes so anywhere you look there's always been ethnic strife and i think that

that's why the agenda the anti-human agenda is to just cram as many different people together as they possibly can knowing that this will create some kind of strife so there can't be there can't be order right so if you look at yes i look at it, again, real or metaphorically, demons are chaos, God is logos, God is order, right? So, when you look at forces driving chaos, then you can usually say that's the anti-human, that's the demonic element. Because again, the demons don't care who comes up ahead. If the demons could somehow incite a race war, they don't care what side wins. They only care that a lot of people kill each other, that there's a lot of despair, that there's a lot of suffering, that they can harvest a lot of that negative energy. That's all they care about.

So then when we talk about these issues, for me, it's always challenging because, one, you don't want to make people feel persecuted. You don't want to make people feel oppressed. That is exactly right. Yes. I totally agree. Can we just pause for a second i've struggled with this a lot as i've watched the anti-white hate kind of define our country and destroy a lot of people i know it's hard to talk about because i care about being called a racist i'm not a racist i don't care if they call me that but because i don't want to inspire

self-pity or a sense of persecution people because it's really bad for people that's exactly right right and then it can add to the tribalism. Totally, which we don't want. Yeah, you don't want white men thinking, oh boy, they're out to get us. I agree. So a lot of times you throw your hand up in the air and think, how do I even handle these issues?

How do you address it? Because it is an issue. Opioid overdose deaths are an issue. And the way that I try to address it in a spiritual way is I try to focus on a general aspirational message. So I get into the weeds on politics. I get in the mud. I'm not claiming to be some great guru or whatever. But if you read me long enough, you know that I, generally speaking, believe that if you decide to not be a loser, you can live a

good life. You're not going to maybe live your dream life. You're not going to be in the Yankees. I was never on the Yankees. I'm not Alex Rodriguez. That's fine. You can just accept that you're not going to be that. But if you decide, you know what? I just don't want to be some pathetic loser, angry all day about about politics getting fat with my mom who has enabled this behavior it's true and if you read me long enough you know like i believe in you i don't think i'm not going to sell you a lie and tell you that you're going to be anything that you can want to be because that isn't the way embodiment works but you can live a good life and there's a lot to be said for just living a good life right there's a lot to be said for just living a good life, right? There's a lot to be said for living a nice, normal life.

Yes. And so for me, instead of focusing on a lot of the tension issues, I do point them out and identify them. But it's always about, look, man, it starts with you. The system is rigged. My dad didn't get a job because of affirmative action, a state police job. That was proven when there was a class action settlement. I can point to real things that have happened, racialized issues where we were on

the receiving end of the oppression. But if that's all you think about is the world is rigged, I can't really do anything. Now you're given into despair. The world is rigged. It's always been rigged, bro. World War I, you're going to get drafted and thrown in to fight in Europe and the trenches because the French and the English can't get drafted and thrown in to fight in europe and the trenches because the french and english can't get along and the germans and the australian hungarians are beefing again because the european right so the timeline is always helpful too at the micro level at the micro level you think and this is the message i kind of always teach it's usually directed towards men is there are a lot of people who are despair mongers.

And they want you to think that all women are terrible. You're a white man, you're oppressed. Nothing you do matters. Everything is going to be- Or you're an oppressor. Yeah, or you're an oppressor, feel guilty about that. There's a whole different way to spin it. Whereas I just start from the proposition,

hey, just decide you don't want to be a loser and take the first step. So let's get specific. I love the way you're seeing this because you're absolutely right. I think it's fair to acknowledge what's actually happening. I don't think you should ever lie. It diminishes you to lie. Lying is evil.

On the other hand, marinating in it clearly doesn't help. So you're a 19-year-old American man. A lot of things are, factually speaking, stacked against you, but you don't want to be a loser and be mad about politics and fat and living with your mom. I see so nicely described. What do you do and what do you avoid? Yeah, the biggest thing you want to avoid is that enabling pattern of behavior. Because most of these guys didn't have a dad figure or their dad was kind of some cucked, checked out guy. And so as bad as my childhood was in a lot of ways, my dad did make me take martial arts when I was getting bullied. He did say like, well, I mean, you're getting bullied.

You got to like do martial arts. And it was just very matter of fact. That was because that was the old school kind of masculine thing, is i mean you're a chubby kid you're getting picked on you got to learn how to fight and it's going to have to fight people and that's just the way it's going to be yes right that's what i was whereas whereas the mom the the feminine wants to nurture right which is good but then that also enables so everything if you look at things energetically the masculine draws boundaries but then it can become too harsh and unforgiving, right? And that's why God has man and woman. But the woman will enable,

oh, baby boy, oh, you're sad. Oh, let me give you some ice cream. Oh, no, you have a bad day, right? And so, you have to have that duality of energy, that struggle that creates a complete person or a whole person. So, if you're 19, you would just want to have a, everything starts with you with a piece of paper and a pen and you're just assessing where your life is, right? And you're asking yourself, I don't know, was I enabled by a overly nurturing mother? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe your your problem's different Maybe your dad was a dick and he didn't give you love and so now you struggle with love And you're you're too harsh, right? Whatever it is But you just sit down and you start assessing where you are in life realizing that especially if you're 19

Everybody who's old and rich would love to be 19 again Right one you have all the wealth in the world Even if you don't think of it that way. And I was somebody who told me that when I was younger, Warren Buffett trades places with you in a second. Here, you can be me as an 80 year old billionaire and you can, I'll be 19 again with whatever bad position you're in. Would you take the deal? Every billionaire would. You think Bill Gates wouldn't take that deal? That's why they're all obsessed with transhumanism. They're trying to figure out a way to get into younger bodies, right? That's what

ultimately transhumanism is about is the fear of mortality, the rejection of God, the rejection of the infinite. So in your own mind, you're thinking, how can I be in a younger body? So one is like, what are you crying about, bro? Right? What are you crying about? You have time to fix it. It's going to take five years years get on a five-year timeline everybody's on this short timeline right if you're in a bad position and you've probably seen this with people who when they give in despair they're just not thinking of the timeline so oh your business failed okay you're probably gonna be broke dude for a couple years you're not gonna be like not broke in a day but you're're not going to be broken five years. If you set yourself on the right path or like whatever your problem is, it's just going to take time, bro.

It's going to take five years, but start taking immediate action right now in whatever way you can. For me, the easiest thing in the world to do if you're a young man, just start reading old books. I said, just what books go on the great court go look up the great books of western civilization Read up read a hundred great books Go to the gym four times a week Call me in a year You won't call me in a year because you'll be kind of figuring things out, right? So what happens is And again, I blame movies and I blame narrative i'm actually

I learned a lot from the post-modernists even though They're often attacked on the right. The idea of postmodernism and examining narrative structures and how narrative structures control thought. So the narrative structure is you're a man, you find the green hornet ring and you become some kind of superhero. Or you're a man and your long lost father is actually half God. And he's going to send you on this hero's journey and they're going to send you your sword and shield, right? If you look at mythology and you look at the narrative structure people have,

there's, even if people don't recognize it, they will now, if they listen, unconsciously, you believe someone's going to save you. The mentor appears. If you look at the hero with a thousand faces, if you look at the hero's journey, you look at the hero with a thousand faces if you look at the hero journey you look at all these narrative structures embedded in our unconscious is oh i'm kind of sitting at home i'm anakin skywalker on a desert island orphaned adopted whatever the case is oh the jedis find me the jedis train me and then i go on my journey. The mentor appears, bro. The mentor doesn't appear. That's fake. Okay. So get it out of your mind that the mentor is going to appear and rescue you from your situation. You got to be your own mentor, right? And then once you start from that at a deep level, realizing nobody's coming to save you and that's fine, that shouldn't make you

afraid. You have to realize that was what's holding you back because you, you kept waiting for the great awakening, the great moment to appear. It's not going to happen. You're just going to get older and decay and give into entropy. So you're your own mentor. Go read the great books of Western civilization. Go to the gym three, four times a week. And then tell me where you are in a year.

And by that time, you'll find your path. But you have to believe that you can find the path. Right? And nobody will do that you can find the path, right? And nobody will do that. What are the traps, the stumbling blocks along the way for young men? The thousands. You get somebody pregnant,

you lose yourself, you drink five. I don't think anyone gets anyone pregnant anymore. Unwanted teen pregnancies are still happening. I mean, people are still fornicating, even if on our side of the internet, there's more abortions happening. And more celibacy. Involuntary, but the top guys are having more women.

There's more involuntary celibacy, but you want to look at, Charles Munger had a good line, don't race trains or do cocaine, right? And the message, the sentiment of that was, if you're sending a young man on his path, you want to say, here are the big things that you don't want to do. You don't want to get a woman, the wrong woman pregnant. You are with her if she doesn't have an abortion for 20, 25. You are tied now to that person quantumly, cosmically, and materially and physically for decades now. So you don't want to do that.

That's a big problem. You don't want to do that. You don't want to kill yourself. you don't want to do that. That's a big problem. You don't want to do that. You don't want to kill yourself. You don't want to drive your car drunk. You don't want to race cars. You don't want to race a train. Can I beat the train, right? You don't want to jump off cliffs off 50 feet into water.

You don't know how deep it is, right? But as glib, and I don't mean to be glib, but that's how much belief I have in young men to know that hey, here's some guardrails Figure it out, dude. Just start reading books go to the gym because then what'll happen people are afraid to let things emerge organically the male brain And i've seen this with people I know Who are incredibly successful, but no kids because in their brain they talk about everything that can go wrong Oh, well, what if I get married to this woman? She divorces me. And their brain spirals. They've

created a thousand new problems that one, you're going to have problems anyway, right? You're going to have problems anyway. Of course it's going to happen. What if I start a business? I mean, yeah, you're going to have a payroll problem at some point. You might have to get a line of credit. There are ways to do it. You're going to have a payroll problem at some point. You might have to get a line of credit. There are ways to do it. You're going to lose sleep because you might think you might go bankrupt and you might think people are going to make fun of you and you might feel like, why did I do this? Yes, all of this is going to happen. Who gives a fuck? You know, it's like you want to just shake these guys.

Well, so that you're describing what strikes me as the bigger problem. So the examples that you gave a second ago were all sort of unbridled masculine energy needing, as you said, guardrails, right? Don't drive drunk or jump off cliffs. I don't see any cliff diving or impregnating going on, at least in the class of people that I'm around. That's it. But it seems like young men are afraid. They're too cautious. They have some sort of hormonal imbalance that makes them more female, more, I don't know, less likely to take big risks. Yeah. I can't save them. I tell them to go to church. There are churches, there are institutions that help those people. So in terms of my messaging, I always think about who i'm writing for Yeah, why am I doing what i'm doing? Why am I wasting my time doing this bullshit? You know where I get attacked smeared called every kind of name got investigated by muller know that i'm on the regime's like

Target, what the fuck am I doing? This is stupid, right? I could just go live a nice quiet life disappear off the face of the earth smoke cig, smoke cigars all day, hang out with my kids, go to the gym. What am I doing? Why am I doing this? And the answer is because I'm writing for who I was when I was 19, 20, 21. Just tell me what to do, bro. Give me the playbook. I'll figure it out.

Give me the playbook. I'm not for the guy who, oh, I'm so depressed. The world is so rigged. I'm going to go watch anti-Semitic podcasts all day because the Jews, the Jews are holding me down, you know. Those are not my people. Those are lost souls. And it isn't my spiritual obligation to reach them. That's the obligation of the church. That's the obligations of pastors because I'm not caring enough to reach them, right? I don't want to hear how you're a sad panda. That you're just, right?

I'm not the right person for you. There are people who are the right people for you. Go walk into a church. Oh, I'm afraid I'll feel awkward to go to church. It's like, well, for what? Give me a break, dude. At some point with these people, you wonder how we're enabling them

by talking about all the systemic problems, which are real, but realizing, go to a church. That's why pastors exist, to nurture you, to kind of put you on the right direction, to deal with your fucking beta cuck bullshit. But that's not for me. I'm not here to save your soul. That's the church. The church is there to save your soul. I'm here to take someone who's maybe had kind of a fucked up home life, maybe has had a wrong turn in life, but they will do things, but they don't have the knowledge, right? So I'm thinking, how can I give them knowledge? What do I wish somebody had told me? What's the knowledge you need? What are the pitfalls that you want to avoid? Here you go. Here's a one-page piece of paper.

File the instructions, and then you're not going to need me because you're the mentor. You're the mentor. Your own mentor has appeared in your own mind. You are your mentor, right? That's the narrative structure. And then go on your hero's journey. And in your hero's journey, you're going to have peril. Don't tell me, what if I marry this woman and she divorces me well what if you don't marry her and you get a car crash and you lose a leg what are you doing worried around like a worry wart go join a knitting circle right go join a knitting society oh i'm so what no that's called chewing the fat right and it used to be kind of an insult right you'd call somebody a bubble boy or you're like, oh,

they're just sitting around chewing the fat like cows with cud in their mouth, right? And you're thinking, well, sure, all these things didn't happen. And in business, I've lost sleep. Thought we're going to go bankrupt and I ruined my life. Do I have to cash in my retirement account to keep things going? Who gives a shit? Of course, you're going to go through that, right? Of course. But then I know people who had great jobs that just got downsized one day and then they had nothing and now they have to rebuild their life at 50, right? You think having a business is hard. How about you rebuild your life bankrupt at 50, right?

That's hard. And but like, again, it all comes back to like, what are you going to do? Just sit around, mope around all day. And there's too much enabling of the moping around behavior do you think that um but it is a line though and it's hard to know exactly where it is between sort of ignoring this you know the systems that are oppressing you which are real and then feeling hopeless and whiny and self-pitying because they're like you need to push back against injustice but you can't allow the existence of

injustice to make you feel you know hopeless people had kids during the great depression yeah right the great depression 20 unemployment rate soup kitchens men with their dignity trying to keep their dignity as they can't feed their family. Real problems, man. This shit that we're going through right now isn't good. There are problems that are real, but in the scheme of humanity and the length of humanity, we're not dealing with shit, bro.

We're not dealing with anything, right? Oh, life is, so are you in line for a soup kitchen wondering if your kids are going to starve do you have to sell a kid in cambodia they can't feed their kids right we can take you other parts of the world and that is in a way of excusing the excesses of the regime because i fight the regime i'm a target of the regime i've been smeared in every kind of publication right but that doesn't mean i sit around all day thinking that i can't do anything you still have to have that no that's totally right why are you against porn ayahuasca i i think most people who participate in porn were molested as kids so then that puts you downstream of the pedophile cycle of

behavior so for me i just my heart just breaks that people do it because I went from a, somebody, the ego is self-satisfying, right? That's what the ego wants to do, validation and self-satisfaction. And you realize that these are broken people and you're participating in the spiritual damage that was done to them and you're spiritually damaging yourself. So it isn't, oh, this is sin, you're going to go to hell. God's going to strike you down with thunder. It's more, you're damaging yourself spiritually when you engage with this material. And that person is even way more damaged. And now you're caught in this cycle of molestation and problems that these people have dealt with. So why in the world would you want to be downstream of that level of trauma, right? That cosmic trauma, get the hell, get the

hell out of that. And you didn't see that before? No, no, because I was just, I was in cultured, we were all groomed. Okay. There was a, you know, grooming is a big term now and everybody blames it on drag queen story or whatever i watched a documentary on woodstock 99 it was the the redo of woodstock and there was a point in there a subplot and it was deliberate by the documentary filmmaker because i understand propaganda i know when they're propagandizing but but they were right. It was very much when you were of my era, Gen X. Oh, Girls Gone Wild. Show us your tits.

Oh, they're going to Mardi Gras. Everybody get drunk. Show your tits. That's vulgar. I look at that now as vulgar and disgusting, but that was completely normalized on us. Howard Sturman do a radio show. Oh, Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen.

They're 14. When do they turn 18? Sexualizing a 14-year-old, but it's like what David Foster Wallace said, does a fish know that it's in water, right? When you're in water, you don't know you're in water. You know when you're out of the water, right? When you're in water, you don't know. We were all swimming in a sewer, not realizing that we are being groomed to fornicate, to sexualize people who are way too young to be sexualized. And that was all being groomed on us. So that just becomes like a normal thing. Oh, yeah, girl's going wild.

Oh, yeah, girl gets drunk, shows her tits. She probably, that's probably the lowest point of her life doing that when the videos come in and she's sober. But if you don't have a higher awareness, you're just another participant in the Bacchanal carnival of degeneracy. Right. But you don't realize it because you're swimming in that filth. And then as I've tried to get out of that sewer and as I work more and more to sanctify and purify my heart, you realize, oh, God, how could I watch this? So for me, it didn't even take willpower to not watch it. I just said, how could I? how could I watch this? So for me, it didn't even take willpower to not watch it I just said how could I?

How could I watch that? That make my heart says you could you can't watch this Imagine it's like, okay, so five six seven years ago, whatever I was like, I can't watch this anymore And that was it didn't it wasn't a struggle It wasn't hard and that's where you know, we talked earlier about the difference between the heart and the mind and Relearning that the heart is its own form of consciousness, its own form of intelligence. The more you live in your heart, the less willpower it takes. It doesn't take willpower

to refuse to participate in cycles of trauma when your heart is talking because your heart would say, what are we doing? But if it's your mind, you think, oh man, I got a few minutes to blow off. I'm kind of bored. Let's just see what's new. And then of course, it's been proven that when they watch pornography, you watch worse and worse stuff. You don't start with the National Geographic topless pics of the tribes, and then you end there. You start there and you end at just really sketchy stuff right and what so that tells you right there that it's demonic because if it were satiating if pornography were satiating you would say okay here's a 70s era bad movie oh she comes in and she's pretty and there was a certain at least elegance or art to it you would be fine ending there how many people end there right it's a

gateway that keeps corrupting the soul so i'm interested in what you said that you know it's demonic because it doesn't satisfy you right explain that what does that mean the demons don't want you to have inner peace the worst problem for the forces of evil for the demons for the negative energy is when you're existing in a state of love? And you're existing in a state of flow of light of being Of lightness. That's the worst thing in the world For the demons because that's how they lose you They want to they want to drag you down into the muck as much as they can and take you as low as they can

because then you feel like You can't be reached you can't be helped you've gone too far right so you once you realize the spiritual component of it too you think oh you motherfucker i know what you're doing you know they give you a wandering eye so it would it be fair to say according to this principle that if something doesn't satisfy you, that is bad. If it doesn't satiate, you're probably leaving the realm of the spiritual space that you want to occupy. If it's not satiating,

right. And for other people struggle with different things. For some people, it can be food. For some people, it can be drugs, sex, opioid.

Yeah. Sex. Right. So, yeah, sex. Right. So any kind of sex that doesn't satiate you, doesn't satisfy you, probably not the sex you should be having. It's probably leading you down the bad path. Do you think people are becoming more spiritually aware in the united states i think that more conversations are being had as more as more people who are fringe or not fringe open these conversations so like i think about in two ways one is i know that in my

spiritual awakening such as it is which i'm still baby in terms of the cosmic timeline is i said you know i never believed in god but you guys showed me the devil is real right i felt the same way so something's up bro i don't know what it is exactly right i don't jesus christ is the son of god and he returned he's a messiah and that's your only path to salvation and right okay we can have i that never that never called to me that was never where i said okay i believe in god and this is the truth but i go oh the evil is so overt obviously yes i've been blinded spiritually for some reason so obviously there's something else going on here that isn't really good. That is so precisely what happened to me that I wonder how many other people

that's happened to, A, and B, I wonder if the existence or the overt nature of evil isn't a kind of blessing. Well, I mean, if you go in the spirit world, they tell you can't have light without dark. That's one of the principles, I guess, of the spirit world is you can't have light without dark. That's one of the principles, I guess, of the spirit world is you can't have light without dark and darkness brings people to light. And if you really do believe in God, then, and you do really believe in the infinite, you realize that everybody's kind of has a different path to the light. Well, maybe a better way to put it would be God uses evil to draw people to himself. Or he he lets or it's just what c.s lewis and all the christian apologetics say which is that he gave us free will and the table

was cast but on the timeline of god what might seem like insurmountable suffering to us is completely different so we don't really know on this world what it means right we could say well you know for example one of the big perplexing problems is the problem of evil, right? The problem of evil, right? And I would say having ventured through the spirit world is that to us it's a problem we should talk about philosophically, but on the spiritual realm, the timeline is so different that the way it would even out by God is incomprehensible to our minds. So, what we think is, why does God allow evil? You say, well, because God's on the infinite timeline and what we perceive evil as over in a flash and that there's a sanctification process and people rejoin God. So, we're fighting over this only because we don't understand the spirit world

and we don't understand the infinite timelines at play. So, because of that, what we're kind of fussing over is philosophically distracting us from play. So because of that, what we're kind of fussing over is philosophically distracting us from ourselves. So rather than get into the apologetics, why does God allow evil? And it's because free will, we're still in mind, right? We're still in mind. And in heart, you say,

what am I doing to sanctify my heart? Is my heart full of lust, pride, evilness? Did I lose my temper today? Right, am I getting greedy? Am I trying to take advantage in a business deal? What am I doing to sanctify my heart? So a lot of these intellectual discussions, which are valuable to have, and I've read all the books, it's still a distraction. It's the ego's way of distracting from the heart. So everything about this whole mindfuck world is the ego keeping you away from your heart so what i try to focus on as much is reawakening the the mind the full consciousness of the human heart in my own

human heart what are the disciplines that you use to to achieve that well i say the jesus prayer a lot because i think it's very humbling you know jesus christ son of god have mercy on me a sinner and that's the entirety of the prayer? Mm-hmm. They're called arrow prayers, quiver prayers, because people overthink prayers, right? Oh, what do I say in my prayers? What do I say? Well, there's books, you know? Can you repeat that? Yeah, it's Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

And the reason that that has a certain impact on people is because it's a reminder that you do need divine mercy. It's a reminder of your ego thinking you're such hot shit and you're so important and you're so great. You're such a great man of history, right? You're so important, right? Because me, I struggle with pride. Everybody has a difference than they struggle with. I don't struggle with sloth. I'm ambitious, right? Within the flip side of that is pride. So I struggle with pride.

So then you're reminding yourself, I need the divine mercy of God. I need the divine mercy of Christ. And having, again, seen it through the veil, you realize how inconsequential our troubles are. So for me, I do that all the time. And especially before bed, I'm just reminding myself, okay, I need to have mercy for me, that's just, I do that all the time. And especially before bed, I'm just reminding myself, okay, have mercy on me, a sinner, and not in a judgmental way, but just, you know, what have I done? And then as you do that, get more reps in, you can catch yourself more because it's all about catching yourself early on,

right? Like your kid gets mad and the kids are bickering and they're fighting and you're about to like lose it. What the fuck know why are my kids fighting or whatever it helps ground you right helps remind you you need mercy in this moment because you're weak otherwise you wouldn't care your kids are bickering kids are kids they bicker who gives a shit right well i care because my ego tells me that there should be more order or they're disturbing my train of thought or whatever whatever bullshit my my ego has got me wrapped up in. So then you remind myself, I mean, I do need mercy because what a pathetic creature I am losing my temper because kids are bickering because kids are being kids, right? Like, wow, I'm pathetic. Actually, I think I'm so great, but this is pathetic. What a pitiful human being you are, right? But you're reminding yourself,

that's why you need the divine grace and divine love. So we each have four kids. My oldest is like 30 years older than your youngest. So I'm done with the things that you're doing now. And I often think to myself and say to my wife, man, am I glad we're not doing that now? We don't have little kids now in this world because it's so hostile to children. I mean, it's like overtly hostile to children how how do you how do you do that how do you raise children right now thoughtfully to become the kind of people you want them to be i don't know that i i don't know at least in my own experiences that the world is hostile to kids i think that that wave has passed but that's still within the media the media world the dc world what i'm seeing now is a resurgence of very involved dads and very involved parents and there's probably a split where a lot of kids are getting left behind

but i would say i'm seeing way more parents who who are like way way more involved in parenting than my parents were probably than yours. I guess, no, I'd be more precise. Pushing weird sex shit on kids, which when I was a kid would have been cause for gunfire. Now it just seems everywhere. Right, yeah. So the resisting the worldly temptations

are what we went through too and didn't realize it. Britney Spears on the TV. No, that's right Right, we we've had different spiritual fights. We just didn't maybe realize that that we were being groomed That's why I say We were groomed you were groomed. I was groomed everybody raised on girls gone wild was groomed Everybody raised on show me your tits a song You and me baby ain't nothing but animals. Let's do it like they do in the discovery channel

Very popular song when I was in high school. Realizing the music was programming you for fornication, for violence, for drugs. We were groomed as bad or worse than the kids were now. It just, it finally resonated to us in a way that clicks our constructs on maybe what's too far. But we were groomed terribly. We just didn't realize it. Huh. That's a wise point. And actually there's something kind of comforting about drag queen story hour. I mean, it's people pissing on each other during pride march in San Francisco.

It's like, it's so in your face that you know what it is. Right. So there's a new resurgence happening as a result of that and the spiritual conflict goes on forever it doesn't end so what we do personally is we're very much concerned about the bubble we anybody who tells your kids anybody who tells you don't shelter your kids groomer shelter your kids why do you why are you telling me not to shelter my kids say don't lock your doors at night really okay you're you're an armed robber oh that's weird don't shelter my kids okay you know there's a big shelter but there's a shelter yeah and your kids should have shelter it's how you define it and everybody's really concerned about peer groups. For us, the bigger wars are over screen time and how much should kids be allowed to watch TV.

Devices, especially handheld devices, which you try to limit, but then you're on a flight and you give the kid iPad. So those are the bigger struggles. What's unfortunate is that the trans mania is primarily hitting the poor people, right? The people who don't have a lot of time, who are very tired, who are very stressed, and they kind of raise their kids on default, right? So if you imagine that it takes a certain amount of leisure time to be politically informed, right? Aristotle even said you shouldn't be involved in politics until you're 35 because by that point, maybe you have some leisure time, but before that you need to live your life and have some kind of achievement, right? So if you're, if you're an intact family,

which is becoming more rare, dad and mom both work, they come home tired, processed food diet, because we've transitioned away from where when I grew up, we call it, people find it offensive now. I didn't find it offensive, but you call it peasant food or poverty food. We ate beans, ham hocks and beans, right? Chicken and dumplings. You would eat things that were cooked. You would often cook at home. Even if you're poor, you could afford to cook. And now everybody's raised on processed foods and that's having a lot of problems with, some people claim seed oils are the problem, but whatever the case is, we know that there's a problem with diet. That's having a lot of health effects, right? So you eat or you wake up, you get wound up on a donut coffee, you work a little bit, monster energy drink,

a lunch of processed food. By the time you get home, you're exhausted, right? And there's your kids and you entrusted your kids to the school. And you don't have all the time in the world to figure out best parenting practices, right? You're beat down, man. You're just trying to make it. You're trying to keep your head above water. So the tragedy is that, and it is hitting the rich kids too, because I do have a side point on that. The tragedy is that this really was hitting the poor kids first. So if you go in through- The tranny stuff. Yeah.

If you go through any small town, I saw the gender bending stuff happening in all these small towns on any kind of small town road trip. And then it percolated up to elite opinion. And then so did the opioids. So remember Susan, the CEO of YouTube, who banned conservatives, her kid died of overdose, opioids.

And her world, because she banned people like me and censored people like me who were anti that. The people, the forces that were working against those compounds. In their mind, oh, it can't happen to me. We're the elite. No, you're not, dude. And I always wonder if she has self-awareness. Like what she feels at night in if she has self-awareness, like what she feels at night in a moment of self-awareness, realizing that she created the culture to kill their son.

If we're being completely honest, and I don't mind saying that, it's the truth. She created that culture of the open borders, the drugs coming in, block everybody who's against the open borders, call people who are anti-drug kooks, Oh, reefer madness, bro. Right. All of that degeneracy has hit the elite now. So they thought this was going to be some, something happened to poor white trash to use their terms, not mine. They're, Oh, whatever. Who cares about them? And now they're realizing they're not immune to their kids are gender breeding. Now their kids are on opioids. Now their kids are doing only fans. Their kids are addicted to pornography. Their boys are having problems launching and becoming active participants in society. They're dealing with the problems too,

right? So that is the predicament, but that also might be why there is some kind of hope because people are realizing it's their own interest to get things together. Although unfortunately, the ideologues of the left were willing to let communism flourish everywhere and seem to be okay with that. So maybe not. But us on the individual level, the parent level, you want to, we listen to parenting podcasts. We're always looking for parenting tips. It's just same like if you want to get in shape, you listen to gym podcasts, right? Because you're cultivating the habit of the mind on what matters most, which is your kids. So it's always about staying in tune with the trends and being mindful of how you're raising them. But fundamentally, you're protecting your children from this horrible secular world.

What do you do about school? We do homeschool. We take them to a homeschool club so homeschool now is a beautiful there's a revolution thanks to ironically enough covid so covid the only reason we're having these conversations is because of the covid lockdowns which shows that good can emerge from evil if the covid lockdowns hadn't happened nobody would know anything about these schools right people don't think about that people go all COVID lockdowns hadn't happened, nobody would know anything about these schools. Right? People don't think about that. People go, oh, the lockdowns destroyed the country.

The lockdowns harmed the country in many ways, but we would not have known any of these problems were happening at school if people didn't have Zoom school. Right? So Zoom school happens, people start paying attention, and then they're pulling their kids out of school. There's more homeschoolers now than there's ever been. Because they're finding out what the teachers are actually saying. And that they're not even learning. You're realizing, I'm sending my kids to daycare. Maybe we can find a way to make this work financially for my wife to stay home. Or maybe we can find some kind of solution.

So what became kind of popular is a homeschool co-op they call them, homeschool pod. How does it work? You pull money together and you hire teachers. So let's say your kids were in school. There's teachers who want out of the public school system. And you have three to five friends and you say, well, why don't we just hire the teacher to teach our kids, right? So it's not really homeschool. You're making your own school, it sounds like.

Yeah, but you do it part-time and then you school them at the house too. So the biggest misconception of homeschooling is that you're like a little house on the prairie, and your kids are on a bench, and you're the mom in the front writing on the chalkboard. That was never homeschooling. Anyway, homeschooling was always self-directed, teaching kids how to teach themselves, and then helping them coach them along through the material as they struggle with it. But kids are generally naturally curious and will figure things out in their own way, but you're providing them enough structure to make sure that they just

don't play outside. I'm embarrassed I don't know more about this. Of course, I love the sound of it, but how common is it for friends or neighbors to get together, pool their money, and hire a teacher? In Austin, Silicon Valley, and in certain areas, I wouldn't call it common, but it's not anything that would be way off the beaten path. Are you doing that? We do something similar. Yeah, there was a structure created and we pay tuition. We pay whatever fees and then there's a nonprofit attached to it.

So we donated to the non-profit So remember elon musk got quote-unquote in trouble because they said he gave all this Money to a non-profit, but the non-profit teaches his kids And you're like well, they teach other kids too, but isn't that where you would want to donate your money, right? Like if i'm going to donate to a non-profit wouldn't I want to donate it to? a homeschool supported charity, right? And so, yeah, our kids do a part-time.

They do a part-time schedule. What are the expenses like as compared to private or Catholic school? It'd be probably—it was certainly cheaper than these hoity-toity grooming Catholic school—or grooming, I mean, private schools. Yeah. It would be on par with what a Catholic school tuition would be. A working, yeah. Are you satisfied so far with the results? Oh yeah, we're thrilled.

Yeah, we're thrilled. And what we do as, because again, homeschooling isn't what people think. We're still voluntarily tracked by the state. So the state has somebody check in with my wife. They interview the kids, and then my kids will take the standardized tests to make sure that they're on path with the curriculum, which we're fine with. If school were school, we'd send our kids to public school. If school were, hey, here's your course material, here's what you learn, here's how you take it,

we'd still homeschool, honestly, because that's just the way I i am but we don't have a problem with the testing and everything in steediology so we're we're on track our kids take the test that a normal kid would take and then they they talk to like a liaison who's in teaching and she's a wonderful person and it's very helpful and they just check in with the kids make sure the kids are okay which i'm fine with that too is there any downside to this i mean it's all upside. And they just check in with the kids, make sure the kids are okay, which I'm fine with that too. Is there any downside to this? I mean, it's all upside. You know, you never want to say there's no downside because that means you're high on your own supply, right?

Right. But they socialize with other kids. They're with kids of all age groups. That way, remember we would go to school, you're in a class and you're with people only your own age. And when children talk to people of other ages, they become more advanced with their communication. Yes, that is totally

true. So people often think that my oldest daughter is older than she is. No, no, she just spends a lot of time talking to adults and talking to eighth graders and seventh graders and sixth graders and fifth graders. And it's all kid appropriate because the model of the co-op or the, they probably don't even call it a homeschool co-op. They call it probably something else. There's probably a different terminology, but it's Waldorf based. It's nature based. It's based on the wonder and magical childhood. You go in, it's very much about storytelling and participating with nature. And that's the one that they go to i have friends who they set up one and it's more tech based there are a lot of tech guys you want their kids kind of coding

which i don't think a five-year-old needs to learn to code that plus the coding language who knows will even be well with ai no one needs to learn 10 years anyway right but every but there are people who are trying to find solutions but the flip side is a lot of parents do want the daycare aspect. So homeschooling, if you don't like your kids, then homeschooling is a very, it's a huge downside. It's a huge,

right? Yeah. Because if you don't like your kids, you send them to public school. I mean, that's not, yeah. If you don't like your kids,

you shawl them off. But if you're, yeah. Or just send them to Sidwell in DC or something like that. Right. Exactly. Cause you don't like your kids and you'reawl them off. But if you're... Yeah, or just send them to Sidwell in DC or something like that. Right, exactly. Because you don't like your kids and you're ambitious. And I'm a worldly man.

I want to be secretary of state like Anthony Blinken. Yeah, go be trans. Daddy's got work to do. Right. Or get an overdose or whatever. Right. That's the whole point. Yeah.

So people becoming more spiritually aware, people looking for alternatives to a dying school system. These are huge positive developments, I think, in American society. Can you think of any others since you believe in optimism and despise despair? Oh, yeah. I mean, more people train jiu-jitsu, more people are starting their own businesses, more people own guns, more people are awake to the problems, even if the problems are way bigger than they ever could have imagined. More people are having open dialogue about real issues. People have left the grid, right? 10 years ago, because my experience with ayahuasca goes way, way, way back in time.

But if I talked about that until relatively recently, they'd 51-50 me. They'd say, what a lunatic, right? And now people are like, oh, I mean, I don don't he's probably delusional or whatever, but it's like in the conversation right, which The overton window on that has shifted. So there's a lot of good energy Being put out too. There's never been a better time in my opinion. This is why I don't like to despair for men when I was a kid You couldn't just learn things

You were you were in a school and then whatever your parents taught you is kind of what you learned If you're 17 18 and you want to learn how to start an internet website e-commerce business You might not have anything to sell but you can do that. You can literally learn anything That you would need to know to survive. I didn't know anything about money I almost went bankrupt at one point because I just didn't understand money. I didn't understand about credit or paying bills on time or how any of this stuff worked. I just didn't know. You didn't have a lot of experience growing up with money. Right. But you could just learn anything. So if you're actually a young man in a hurry or a young woman in a hurry, you can go learn whatever you want. And there's obviously more temptations and other influences, but you can carve out your own path in a way that you couldn't

have 40 years ago. 40 years ago, if you're born, you're born in a town, that's probably where you're going to end up. Maybe you're the odd bone leaf, right? That didn't happen. We're not getting drafted for the Vietnam War, right? We like to bash the boomers a little bit, and I enjoy that too from time to time, but they were drafted in a war and sent to Vietnam. I don't know if anybody's ever been caving in Vietnam, but try to walk through a cave as a six-foot-tall man, and imagine that that's what we did. You graduated high school, and you were in Vietnam, bro, unless you were Bill Kristol or somebody or Mitt Romney. Then, of course, you were a fortunate son. Oh, did Bill Kristol not serve in Vietnam?

The last I checked, he didn't, yeah. Oh, interesting. Mitt Romney, yeah. Last I checked, they weren't in Vietnam either. Weird. Those guys love wars. I would thought they would take that opportunity. Yeah, they missed their hero's journey, right? So if you look at the problems, they're real.

But if you look at the problems in a historical context, I would rather live now than the draft era of the Vietnam War, wouldn't you? Yeah. There were civil rights riots in the 60s. Detroit is burning, right? That was happening in the 60s. The crime wave in New York in the 70s. We've always kind of had these problems.

So it's good to get over our own myopia and say, oh, it's just, this is a human condition, man. This is a human struggle. We're always going to have it. You never win. You never lose. Because even if you think you win, you can have it all taken away. You can drive out. I've made it in life. You can drive out, hit a moose, lose a leg, lose both legs, die. Your kids could get died in a crash. It's never over, right? But in our human brains with the ego, we either go to, I'm a winner and I'm in a static place of winning, or I'm a loser. Everything is so bad in society and this is where I am. So in your own mind, what you want to do is break that narrative arc and realize that you're not a winner, you're not a loser're you're at a given point in time and anything could change for the better or the worse

in a moment so do the best you can right now while you're here and keep pushing forward amen so the last thing i'm going to ask you about um and i just want to take a really dark turn if we could um is epstein you've done a lot on this first give us the overview what was that what is the truth of his life and death and when are the rest of us going to get all the details on this we will never know the truth about what happened with jeffrey epstein because it was clearly an intelligence operation right It was clearly a form of blackmail in a form of keeping people confined to the narrative. So the Epstein documents, the way they came about was a friend of mine who's a lawyer said, I've never seen anything

like this. There's this litigation going involving Jeffrey Epstein and everything is redacted. And this was filed in federal court. And as know you don't when was this 2016 ish 2017 ish and he said you won't believe this you can't do that because if you want a confidential dispute resolution you can do mediation arbitration if you're in public courts and litigation your social security number is redacted but why you're suing and what's alleged is not redacted well yeah it's a pub it's a public it's our justice system yeah go do arbitration if you want private right confidential and he goes why don't we just file a motion to unseal and i thought it'd be some like little side project and wouldn't cost that much money

being naive because this was so unprecedented that it shouldn't cost a lot of money it ended up costing 250250,000 plus. With him giving a break on it, we thought it'd cost $10,000 or $20,000. And because if you're looking at it through the structure of the way the law is, you would say, there's no such thing as an easy win in law. But to the extent that there's an easy win, this is low-hanging fruit. Let's just go ahead and get these files unredacted. It won't take that much time or money. Oh, the opposite.

The judge ruled against us after sitting on the case for a long time on privacy grounds. There was no, again, that's not how the law works. The law isn't that you have the right to privacy in public litigation you don't you give up the right to privacy and public litigation that shouldn't happen we think oh god this is more more than we realized so we go i guess we got to appeal it so then we file an appeal in the second circuit court of appeals. And meanwhile, the money is just, and I realized again, in hindsight, I was like, wow, you were

naive. You thought there was just going to be some easy win, but I didn't really know what I was getting at. Right. It's like pulling a tiger by the tail. You're on a little hike and you see something sticking out and you kind of grab it. And next thing you know, it's a Bengal tiger in your face. And you think, I didn't, I didn't know that that's what i was grabbing at and in my own naivety i didn't realize what the whole epstein situation was it was going to be a real he was still alive at this point he was still alive wasn't been arrested so this is as last night you said i told a lot of stories you didn't believe so this is another impossible no no i just need to believe it you're unbelievable you were telling me about your childhood and i sometimes get self-pity and i'm like oh my life was so hard and i hear about

yours are you serious did that really happen right right so this is another unbelievable story it's like a forrest gump thing how do i get involved with jeffrey upstein just some random guy on the internet twitter how bizarre so me and mark r Randazzo was the lawyer. So Randazzo, Mark Randazzo said, hey, why don't we just get these unsealed? You're always talking about pedophile stuff. This is such an easy win for you. And he goes, and the case is interesting to me, so I'll cut you a break on fees. We both thought going in that it was going to be something that you could get done for a reasonable amount of money and a reasonable amount of time, and it took years. So we filed the suit and the motion to unseal,

and then the judge rules against us. We appeal to the Second Circuit Court of Appeals in New York, and then during the Trump administration, Epstein is still free, hasn't been arrested. A friend of mine, one of the good guys in the intelligence community said, hey, just so you know, you shouldn't mention Epstein anymore. You're in a real problem. They go, you got into something really that you didn't know what you were getting into. And I go, okay, what do you want to do? They go, just stand by. You're in court. That'll work its

way through, but you need to not draw attention to this issue or yourself. And I said, okay, that's message received. And this is someone okay, that's message received. And this is someone in the- This is credible, yeah, this is a real- In the intel world. Yeah, this isn't some guy who reads me on Twitter worried about me after a divine vision. Yeah, this is a real thing.

And so I didn't talk about it for about a year. And then what happened is the Miami Herald, Julie Brown, filed the same motion to unseal kind of that I had filed and piggybacked on me And then that's what started to break up with the epstein thing So then my guy in the intelligence world said, okay, you're green light now They're not going to kill julie brown in the miami herald. Everybody's going to talk about it So let the chips fall where they may so then I re-entered the discourse on it

because chips fall where they may. So then I reentered the discourse on it because you can't kill everybody, kind of how they say, right? You can kill one guy, you can have one guy get in a car crash, but you're not going to go after the Miami Herald or other people. Now, what is very sad to me about the Epstein story is if you look at the timeline and you look at the why Epstein became relevant again, and this isn't Julie Brown. Julie Brown, to her credit, had the right motives, but Jake Tapper and others didn't. A man by the name of Alexander Acosta was the secretary of labor of Donald Trump. So you now have an orange man bad angle because Alexander Acosta was the prosecuting attorney who oversaw the original plea agreement

with Jeffrey Epstein, which could only be defined as a sweetheart plea deal defying any kind of logic. And the media now had Trump bad because Acosta's Trump, Epstein Trump, the Trump Epstein angle, right? Now the media suddenly cared or pretended to care about the issue because they could use the Epstein issue to get after Trump. So then every media outlet wanted access to the Epstein files because they were hoping there was a Trump angle too. So then suddenly it became a big deal. So we go up before the Second Circuit Court of Appeals. Mark Mendoza and Jay Wolman argue the case.

And by now the meter is like turning, man. I'm like stressing, dude. And you're paying for this. They gave me a break on fees, what they would normally charge. Anybody else, it would have been a million dollar legal fee plus. But we had some of us pro bonos,

but I was still paying. Oh yeah, I was still sending big checks. Just because you thought it was interesting. Yeah, yeah. And well, and I didn't know it was, if I didn't know how big it was going to be, I might've had second thoughts. But the, cause they did me good on it.

I don't want to make it seem like I'm complaining. This is the nature of the American legal system. Because that's why people go, oh, why don't you sue that person? They said something about you. It's like, I don't know. Why don't I write a check for $3.5 million to litigate a defamation case against somebody because they called me something on the internet? People don't understand that until they're in that world and they realize how much all this stuff costs.

So Miami Herald probably spent 2 million on fees. And so they argue the case. The Second Circuit made it abundantly clear that they were going to unseal the files because there was no way in the world under established law that the file should have been sealed in the first place. And oral argument happens. It's so clear that they're going to unseal it i think oral argument happens on friday and i'm like all right this is good two days later epstein gets arrested flying back from

france the only reason he was arrested was because the files are going to be unsealed because he was told he was not going to be arrested. Right. The mop-up operation had worked, but for me, and more importantly, but for Julie Brown. Because I think if it had just been me, they could have just buried the case long enough. They could have issued an unpublished opinion that wouldn't have precedental value. Because the way it works is a trial court judge is more likely to make up the law against you than an appellate court, because an appellate court will have precedential value and apply in other cases.

So the trial court could have just – they gave me a fake ruling because who cares? It's Mike Cernovich. And then the Second Circuit could have moved it to a shadow docket and ruled against me. But once Julie Brown entered the case, you can't ignore the Miami Herald, right? I think I'm a big deal, but compared to Miami Herald, I don't have any legitimacy at all, right? And then every other outlet got involved too. So then the regime realized, well, the Epstein stuff is coming out. We better look like we're doing something. And then, so Jeffrey Epstein was at least least a couple or was arrested a couple days after all argument because they realized we have a mess now what do we do so then epstein gets arrested and then do you want me to keep going i'm actually spellbound

so to channel dr gene scott get on the telephones, get on the phones. So then they charged Epstein, but a little bit of like legal trivia. I went there for the press conference. I read the indictment and the indictment was what you would charge someone if you wanted to create a media narrative that you were prosecuting them, but that under the law would be chicken shit stuff. The lowest thing that you could possibly charge him for, but you could say we're going after him. There's a reason they did it this way.

They charged him for paying for massages in his New York apartment through, I think, the period of 2014 to 2016, somewhere in the timeline. Massages in his apartment. That's all they charged him for. The four corners of the indictment. So why did they only charge him for that? There's a reason. He had a place in New Mexico.

He had his island. He had his place in Paris. He had another place, I think, in West Palm Beach. And if they had charged him for trafficking, the FBI would have had to simultaneously raid every property under a Mann Act. The Mann Act makes it a crime to transport a woman. State lines.

Yep. And international, too. So he was flying back from Paris, and he was flying women, models all over the world, models, you know, not to diminish what he's doing, but that was his story. He was flying underage girls and some of age all around the world. Well, what you would do with the SDNY, which as we know, the SDNY, they go after you, you got problems because they charge the most aggressive. They're too aggressive. In fact, in how they charge cases, what you would have charged it. If you were concerned with being a prosecutor, you would have charged him under the Mann Act and under the international version of the Mann Act, you would have charged him under the Mann Act. And under the international version of

the Mann Act, you would have simultaneously searched and seized every property, taken all the evidence. Instead, they arrested him, had a little press conference. It was over massages in New York property. They searched the New York property. What was happening in the island? We don't know. What happened to the island? We don't know. Because the FBI said, we don't know what happened to the island. We don't know because the FBI said we can't search it because nothing that he was charged with concerned the app. Cause of course the FBI is very concerned now with due process. Yeah. You know? Yeah. They're really, you know, we don't want to go overstep our lawful authority. So we can't go raid that island. So they left all these properties unattended. And then that's when the mop-up operation commenced, and they got whatever compromising CEDs and DVRs and other information.

They got that from the intelligence community, got that from all the properties. May I ask you to pause for one second? So this is happening in 2017? No, by the time it came to fruition, yeah, now we're in 1819. Okay, right. So it would have been Bill Barr, the Republican Attorney General, his second time as Attorney General. He would have been aware of all this, correct? Oh, yeah, I'm not sure if Barr was in at the time.

We'd have to double check it. But whoever was AG would absolutely have been aware of it. And I think it was Bill Barr because Bill Barr is the one who said that he watched footage of Epstein committing suicide. And he knows, but we can't watch the footage of Epstein committing suicide. Bill Barr can, but we can't. That's a little sus, right? Yeah, Bill Barr covered up the footage of epstein committing suicide bill barr can but we can't that's a little sus right yeah right bill barr covered up the murder of epstein well clearly right but i'm just saying like what i like to do which i found helps me be more persuasive is i will meet you with what you claim even when i know it's a lie so i know that bill barr is lying

but i would just for the sake of argument accept it is true that Bill Barr saw the video of Epstein killing himself well therefore you would have to explain why you can't release that video or show it to other people because if the video exists the public would clearly have a right to see it or designated trusted intermediaries would so rather than say well Bill Barr is lying

I like to just say okay buddy and by the way that's a trait of lawyering a lot of police detectives use that too, is I'll follow along with your bullshit and then I'll just start pulling the threads a little bit. So yeah, it would have been Bill Barr. And so Epstein gets charged with the lowest possible conduct that he ever could have been charged with. And all their properties were left unattended. So mop-up teams went in there, took whatever they needed to take out there. And then Epstein commits suicide.

That's the end of the story. What's to talk about? All gone now. All in a nice... It's like the ending of The Usual Suspects. It's like he never existed. What happened to all the evidence? The intelligence apparatuses have it.

But we read that there are are hundreds thousands of hours of video tape from his various properties yeah that's a fact that's not a yeah that's not something that was in so where is all that taped you know vaults vaults in washington dc or fort knox wherever bill barr had it sent yeah whatever physical location bill barr and whatever five eyes agencies he was working with stored it. They have all that black military on people to this day, and they'll release it if they need to, but everybody's playing ball. You find out that Bill Gates was there often. Where are the videos? Where's the proof? You'll never see that, but Bill Gates will go along with the agenda. Bill Clinton,

he'll go along with the agenda. Reid hoffman he's a very vicious person going after people and the media gives him a pass even though he was with epstein i love here's what i love about cancel culture why you know it's not not sincere i would support the universal enforcement of cancel culture rules so if the rule was you did a bad thing in your life and you're kind of beyond the norm, beyond the pale, and you're not allowed in acceptable society, if that were universally applied, that would mean Bill Gates is not anywhere, right? Bill Clinton would be canceled. Bill Clinton, there's all this witness testimony about Bill Clinton. Reid Hoffman would be canceled. But it's interesting that if you post

a bad tweet or a bad video clip out of context or chopped up or even a deep fake or even somebody makes it up, now you're toxic. You're toxic waste. But everybody gets to hang around Epstein and they can still speak at the DNC and they're held up as the media and propped up. So clearly the media was in on the Epstein stuff because otherwise you would hound Bill Gates to his dying days. Bill Gates would never get on stage without you asking about Jeffrey Epstein. And we know for a fact that Reid Hoffman,

who is a totally poisonous person, he was a close associate of Epstein's. The Wall Street Journal reported on emails where Reid Hoffman was trying to introduce people into Epstein's? The Wall Street Journal reported on emails where the Reid Hoffman was trying to introduce people into Epstein's world. And Reid Hoffman's story is, of course, well, I was trying to raise money for MIT. He's got his own narrative.

But yeah, this has all been reported and authenticated by the Wall Street Journal. Because I would never say anything untrue about Reid Hoffman. That's for sure. Because they make up stuff to sue people over anyway. So you would definitely... I think he funded the suit against trump yeah he's yeah he's funding all the lawfare against people and trying to take people kind of out one by one and if we had a legitimate media you would hound him every time i mean how many times do people when when you were on fox your staffers would get hounded for a random post they would make on twitter oh yeah right well they tried

to destroy their lives yeah you're trying to go after some staffer over a post that was maybe poorly worded or didn't have sufficient nuance in a on a platform that doesn't allow for it didn't allow for the time sufficient nuance but you're like oh yeah we're cool with all these other people though they're they're they're the good guys and that shows you that we don't have a media we have propaganda outlets for the intelligence community and they've been kind of given their marching orders on who's allowed in the discourse and who's allowed to be propped up and who's allowed to get away with things that they got away with. And then all of Epstein's associates, they're fine. Nobody got damaged. How many people's lot reputations were sullied? I would give an example of compare what's been done to somebody like Peter Brumelow or Jared Taylor, who I

obviously don't agree with a lot of their stuff but you have to add those qualifiers unfortunately but compare them to people who pal around with epstein or the sackler family and how they're still billionaire yeah the sack killed all those people yeah and they escaped criminal charges or boeing which just did a civil fine for all the people they killed because of their cover-ups and their crimes what they they get away with. So if you're in a world where you say something offensive, maybe unintentionally, you're done, at least in terms of how they can't define the discourse in the way they once did. But you're sullied forever. You have a scarlet letter on you forever. And you have to learn to accept that and overcome it but you're

you're there's a ceiling on you for sure and but you can be a friend with epstein because the media and the intelligence communities are all working together so they'll make sure that your life isn't made too difficult for what you did are we ever going to know more do you think about epstein no by 20 years i mean there's that book chaos, which was about MKUltra on the Charles Manson. So in 50 years when nobody can be damaged and nothing can really be done, we'll learn about the truth of it maybe. But there's a great conspiracy theory, which is the government, or rather there's a meme about conspiracy theories, which they dismiss as a conspiracy conspiracy theory 20 years ago then they admit it but now they tell you whatever you're accusing them of today as a conspiracy theory and it keeps getting pushed forward last question do you know the effect of all of this the evaporation of like recognizable reality has made everyone super paranoid

and um i have noticed probably too paranoid because it's not helpful to be that paranoid but um do you think that the u.s government is working aggressively to spread disinformation within opposition media do you think there are like lots of feds running around, actually? Oh, I think there are all kinds of feds embedded within the right-wing movement and the conservative movement. You think that's real? Oh, yeah, to discredit people.

The CIA, there was a book called Intel Pro. You can read the CIA manual on how you disrupt movements, which I read. And what they would do, the CIA would do, at the time they were doing it to the Black Panthers, but now they're doing it to anybody who's deemed Christian or goes to a Catholic church, is they have various tactics. And one tactic they do is they call it stone, what do you call it when you keep talking? Filibustering. So, you have a group and you'll have two different agents put in.

One is going to try to fed trap you like they did in Michigan. Oh, we need to do more than just talk. We've talked for too long. It's time to take action. And then that only works on the really desperate people who don't have anything going on, which happened post 9-11 to Muslim kids. If we're being fully honest here, this isn't a new thing happening to us, and woe is us. It was happening to Muslims, and a lot of conservatives didn't really care. That's true.

The FBI stopped another terrorist attack. No, they didn't. They found some poor Muslim kid who was lonely, maybe mildly autistic, and they planned a whole thing for him. Or he had non-mainstream opinions, but wasn't hurting anyone. By the way, you're allowed to have non-mainstream opinions.

In fact, that's the whole point of this country, you're allowed to have non-mainstream opinions. In fact, that's the whole point of this country is allowing you to have non-mainstream opinions. Right. So now it's our turn in the barrel. So on the one hand, they'll try to do that with low-hanging fruit. On the other hand, they'll have people who filibuster and make it so that nothing can really get done, right? So the more elegant way to disrupt a political movement isn't to fed trap people it's to run off the clock so i think for example q the cube thing trust the plan i believe that was intelligence operation done the reason i think that is because if you go back to 2018 the entire narrative being spread to maga world was there's going to be a massive red wave in 2018. We are going to overtake Congress and Trump is going to accomplish all these things.

And millions of people, maybe tens of millions of people believed it. Well, what happened? What happens when you believe that everything is going to be okay and it's being worked on? Well, you don't push. You don't pressure guys. You don't register voters. You don't turn out to vote. You don't do all that boring grinding because in your mind, trust the plan. It's all being taken care of. It might look like President Trump is getting rolled by the deep state, but he's really not. This is a feint. And what really is going to happen is all these mass arrests are going to happen. So I believe I have no direct evidence of this, but my personal belief, and I think it's a rational one based on the very manuals that the FBI and CIA wrote, was I believe that the entire QAnon movement was made by the intelligence community.

Do you think that what happened two weeks ago at the debate like what was i i mean there's so many levels i'm trying to figure out what that was everyone who's paying attention knew that biden um had some sort of neurological disorder but the media never admitted it until like four minutes into the debate all of a sudden the story became, this guy's retarded. We've got to do something. What was that? I have friends who think that, I have friends who believe that the debate was orchestrated by the deep state or Biden's handlers. And that's why it ended up the way it did. I don't believe that. And here's why. My belief is that CNN wanted to create a narrative where Trump dodged the debate with Biden. So they kept imposing more

and more onerous terms on Trump. So me, and this is why Trump, I have a lot to say about Trump and the way he handled things. And I have a lot of problems with Trump. But I will say that only Trump is Trump. So nobody but Trump would have taken that CNN interview because Trump's magic power, but also his Greek fatal flaw, right? The Greeks would always say your greatest shrink is killed. He's so obsessed with mainstream media that he'll interview these people and talk to them all day, even though they hate him and he gives them ratings.

Meanwhile, when he was president, I said, why don't you just talk to the Daily Caller every day? Give them everything. And then everybody has to watch the Daily Caller give it to Breitbart or why don't you build the conservative media ecosystem no because he's a boomer and he's obsessed with prestige media or what I would call regime media regime propaganda so anybody else goes I'm not walking into a CNN ambush this the terms of this are stupid then the narrative will be trump won't debate biden and that's a good narrative they run with but instead trump said oh you're going to turn off my microphone

sure oh you're going to make me do this okay sure oh you're gonna do this sure sure so all the terms led to the debate having to happen even though it was a setup and then biden shows up we've known for a while he's been sundowning and they they had it at night. They should have had it during the day. That was their fault. There was really nothing they could do. They gave him seven days of rest. They gave him a drug cocktail, but they had to show up. They couldn't have him not show up, and they were hoping maybe he'd have a good night because, as you know, people with dementia, sometimes they have a good night. That's right. Sometimes they have a medium night. Biden had a terrible night, but that's the gamble you got to run. So one reason you never despair is the enemy gets a vote. And in this case, Trump was the enemy to the regime. Trump said, okay, sure. I'll show up

to your rig thing because I love the media anyway. And Trump already preceded a narrative in Maga world to explain any failures. The whole thing was rigged anyway. So the narrative was already set that if Trump had a bad night, it was because the debate terms were so unconscionable that he never should have did it, but he did it anyway. So he goes in there, presses the advantage. Biden had a bad night, an unusually bad night probably. And I don't think we need to, because I don't view the deep state of regime as omniscient. I view them as evil, bad faith actors, but that are actually less smart than we are. And they're less robust because for people like us, we've been through the crucible

so many times and we know we're going to be in the crucible again. We conduct ourselves a little bit differently than they do. It's like you have to remember your speeches from in high school, Julius Caesar. And one of the speeches I had to memorize in high school was, let me have men about me that are fat, sleek-headed men and one that sleeps at night. Jan Cassius has a lean and hungry look. You don't want the lean and hungry look people around you, right? We're the lean and hungry look people around you right we're the lean and hungry people we're the people that we know that one one misstep we're in court dude we know that the regime will frame us for crimes so not only are we not doing ethically questionable behavior because boy then we'd really be giving our neck that's for sure we know these motherfuckers are going to

frame us anyway so we're already like oh my god i wonder what like whether where they're going to like make up about me shit whereas all the fat people the spiritually fat people are so weak and debased because they're the ones cooking everything up that they don't know where their weak sides are right so in their fat world they're thinking we'll just put biden up there maybe he has a good night and we luck out. If it's a bad night, we'll be okay. But they didn't realize how bad it could be. Whereas if someone like you worked for,

because that's also the danger of these people. They're so, they don't have any counter narrative. So if they had somebody like you there and me there, we'd have been saying, maybe this isn't a good idea. Because the right, the problem of the right is we self-police too much. We should self-police maybe a little bit less. The problem of the left is they police away any kind of opposition view and they allow every crazy in the tent. So for us, we know who the crazies are and and we know who the feds are, and we know to think in

those terms. Whereas if you're on the left, nobody's crazy. Oh, Ilhan Omar, she's great. Oh, what was she doing about October 7th? What's she saying? Wait, Rashida Tlaib? No, no, no, no, guys, you're not, no, no, no, no, no. Pretend. At least pretend for one day to care. Oh my, oh, now we have a real problem. whereas with with us we're used to having to police ourselves and the people around us so we maybe don't walk into the the traps or unforced errors that that biden debate was so that's a very long way of saying i don't think the regime's omniscient i don't think that that was a move to take him out i think that that was pure human group think in action and they thought that they could get Trump to not take the debate because the terms were so rigged.

Very smart analysis, as has everything you've said for the past couple hours been. So thank you. It's my pleasure. Mike Cernovich. Thanks for listening to Tucker Carlson Show. If you enjoyed it, you can go to TuckerCarlson.com to see everything that we have made. The complete library. TuckerCarlson.com to see everything that we have made. The complete library. TuckerCarlson.com.