The Tucker Carlson Show - Mother of Likely Murdered OpenAI Whistleblower Reveals All, Calls for Investigation of Sam Altman

Episode Date: January 15, 2025

Suchir Balaji worked as an engineer for Sam Altman building AI, until he decided that Altman was committing crimes. Balaji became a whistleblower, and soon after was found dead in his apartment. California authorities claim it was suicide. Crime scene photos clearly show a murder. Balaji’s mother, Poornima Ramarao, tells the most shocking story we’ve heard in a long time.  Paid partnerships with: Black Rifle Coffee: Promo code "Tucker for 30% off at https://www.blackriflecoffee.com Liberty Safe: Promo code “Tucker” at https://LibertySafe.com/Tucker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We bring you stories that have not been showcased anywhere else. And they're not censored, of course, because we're not gatekeepers. We are honest brokers here to tell you what we think you need to know and do it honestly. Check out all of our content at TuckerCarlson.com. Here's the episode. Thank you very much for joining us. My son, I owe this to him. Well, this is a remarkable story. So we were connected by someone we both know.

I had followed this casually in the media. I didn't know what to make of it. Your son died in November. You commissioned an examination by a forensic pathologist, independent forensic pathologist called Dr. Dinesh Rao. I have it right here, accompanied by photographs that you took. And I don't think any honest person looking at this would conclude this was a suicide. There's an awful lot of evidence that it wasn't.

I was actually shocked by it. So I want to get into the details of what may have happened, but I'd like to start, if you don't mind, by hearing about your son. Who was he? How old was he? What did he do? What was he like? Suchir was a prodigy. From birth, we knew he was gifted. And for living, he studied his bachelor's in computer science from UC Berkeley, the the top school he had 4.0 gpa throughout as soon as he graduated he started working in open ai as a researcher ai researcher his first project was web gpt for which a fresh graduate he took the lead role and that web gpt turned out into be chap gpt an application yes. This was a publication of four people. One of them is Suchir. Following this, he worked at OpenAI for pre-training data.

That means he was scooping up all the internet data, feeding to CHAP GPT's AI model. Following this, he worked on... Which is the fuel that it runs on. It needs massive amounts of data in order to become what it is, right? That's the requirement. Yes, it's an AI model. And for the AI model, they need to be data fed. And this data is what everybody is saying is copyright data. That's what all the lawsuits are against. He was involved in fueling that data he was directly involved in that part of the business yes he knows inside out yes following that he worked directly on the chat

application team itself under john schloman in this team he was vital his former boss john claims that his role was vital in chat gpt team and he did some kind of tuning and optimization made it very efficient it's a significant contribution but the irony is he was never acknowledged by open AI and even after he left open AI his after his death also no one has acknowledged him prior to joining open AI he was qualified. He was national champion in 2016 for computing Olympiad. That means he was a top programmer of 2016. Following that, he took a gap year. At 17, he said he doesn't need a degree.

Right after 12, he said, I don't need a degree. I don't need to go to college. He took up a job in Kora as software engineer. He was hired with 25 000 sign on bonus and a pay equivalent to a master's or a bachelor's holder he worked there for a year and then he joined uc berkeley after taking a gap year it took a lot of effort and parents into persuade him to go back to college for which he was grateful throughout in uc berkeley he represented uc berkeley for acm icpc intercollege programming contest the world contest he went to

china along with his team it was in 2017 2018 he 100 000 award for a TSA competition this is for passenger screening algorithm which TSA has implemented today he was shining all throughout his life prior to this at the age of 11 he got 680 in SAT and then at 14 the paper he wrote like makes makes me believe he's a prodigy that science paper is about quantum computing, optimizing a CPU. And like he talks about VLSI design that my friends claim they studied in their masters in electronics and communications. All these things make me believe he's a prodigy and he's demonstrated he had exceptional abilities and it sounds like he did so it's but and it sounds like from reading about it that he ran into trouble only when he began to question whether or not the data that was being fed to opening eye was copyrighted he never raised the voice when he was within opening AI because he had

concerns that management will not approve and he started to question all these when chat GPT became profit making. As long as it was non-profit it was okay. He explains in his publication on suchi.net what his views are and why he believes this is copyright violation and when he started after reinstatement of Sam Altman in 2023 November, November 21st was the day he got reinstated I know it's so well because it was Suchi's birthday that day he got reinstated and after that Such she started thinking about the copyright violation and he did discuss with me it's very unethical and he feels awful about it and i said yes it's unethical i agree with you what's unethical is using copyrighted material material owned by other

people for your business which yeah artist artist work will be lost their means of living will be impacted yes and also he did a research and he published like how the stack overflow and then um few other like maybe quora few other websites their traffic is reducing and he also made a publication in which he explains that the answer given by chat GPT versus the answer given by Stack Overflow, how unscientific and inaccurate the answer is. Interesting. Yeah. When did he leave OpenAI? He left in August. Of 2024? Yes, third week of August. So recently? Very recently. When did he write his now famous paper about what the management of OpenAI was doing with copyrighted material? Next day, he already had made up his mind prior to leaving OpenAI. In fact, in July,

he discussed with his UC Berkeley colleague that he wanted to do a startup and his friend expressed interest. His name is Tyler Zhu. And next day after leaving OpenAI, he went on interview with Canadian news media. We didn't know anything about it. Yeah, we just found out was based on his call logs. He spoke to someone for 40 minutes

after his passing. we called him and found out he was doing this and it was next day after his last day at work who did he speak to i'll get back to you and then he spoke to a reporter news media that sued canadian news media canadian news media that sued open ai. On October 23rd, his interview was published in New York Times, where he makes a very, very open statement, and he calls OpenAI violates copyright data. On October 23rd, he was quoted in the New York Times saying that OpenAI violates copyright law. Yes.

It's stealing other people's material. Yeah. Okay. And what day did he die? I'm sorry? And what day did he die? 22nd November, but we found a body on 26th November.

So he was quoted saying that OpenAI was committing crimes and a month later he was dead. That's not just it. On November 18th, New York Times named my son as custodian witness. Custodian witness is very, very important. He had the documents against OpenAI. That was on 18th, 22nd. He just came back from vacation from LA and Catalina

Island the same night. They have attacked him and killed him. Tell us about what the New York Times wrote on November 18th. He had these documents. What were the documents? We need to get the documents from New York Times. It's a sealed document. It's not open for public. But we need to become like the estate administrator. My husband will be the estate administrator end of this month. Then we will go and acquire the data, what documents they were. At the moment, we don't have information. But you know, because you read it in the New York Times that your son had given journalists papers that he says implicated OpenAI in crime. Yes. And also, on December 2nd, Suchir had an interview planned with Associated Press, Matt Oberyn. On December 2nd, Suchir did not attend. Third, they called on his phone. By then, we had his phone, my husband's phone call. And he found out that Suchir wanted to take legal action against OpenAI.

He wanted to give the witness. By then, this news was not out yet that Suchir was a custodian witness, but we got it. Then all we did was hurrying up the second autopsy, private autopsy moment. We heard that this was his initiative and he didn't make it to do that. So to bottom line it, it sounds like your son, who's your only child, by the way, and I'm really sorry about that. Your son was in a position to threaten, really threaten OpenAI. Well, it's not, his intent was not to threaten he just cared about people he cared about humanity he writes in his article in new york times as well as a publication he believes the way the ai is currently without any regulation is a harm to humanity

he stood up for a cause and he lost his life for a cause he's a martyr obviously he's a martyr and then he never hesitated he took his put his life for a cause. He's a martyr. Obviously, he's a martyr. And then he never hesitated. He put his life at risk. So the official cause of death is suicide. You're his mother. Clearly, you spoke to him a lot. Did you get any indication that he was depressed?

No, he just came back from vacation. He had a very active lifestyle. When we had his memorial service service many of his friends came and they gave quote the details of when they met him and how many times they met him after he left he was visiting family we were going out for dinner lunch he was fine and more than anything else he had concrete career plans yes and interviews scheduled and he had things on his to-do list um did he ever suggest to you say to you that he felt his life was threatened was he worried he had concrete plans he wanted to do some work for humanity that's the last day when we spoke last conversation with suchir in person was that he had a non-profit in mind and he didn't want to take the salary for his work he

said mom i have enough resources i don't even need to get paid i want to serve humanity and he wanted to work in neuroscience and machine learning combination using that i think i've seen on his desktop one of the project for future of doctor visit since we haven't unlocked his email and laptop yet we have to discover that but we know he discussed with me he's it's a one-year plan he said give me a one year time you'll know everything because did he ever talk to you about Sam Altman? We. Did you ever talk to your son about Sam Altman? No, we refused to.

You refused to? We refused to talk to Sam Altman. But did your son ever talk to you about Sam Altman? Did he ever say anything about Sam Altman? Not to me, but to his friends a lot. When he was in Catalina Islands, he spoke a lot against him. He literally didn't like him. In fact, I've seen his chat log saying that he wanted to work with Annie Altman in her non-profit work. And that would be Sam's sister who has accused him of sexual abuse. Yes.

Really? He wrote that down? Yes. So he knew what personality Sam Altman had. And his main concerns were the lies. The lies? Lies that Sam Altman used. The lies. Yeah. He was lying a lot. And my son is very ethical and he couldn't stand it. So the time, if we could go to the timeline

around your son's death. So he goes to Catalina Island with friends. Yes. To backpack, to camp? Backpacking, yes. November 16th to November 22nd. There were five guys who went and my son was one of them.

All these are his middle school and high school classmates. Some of them are his best buddies. We spoke to every one of them when All these are his middle school and high school classmates. Some of them are his best buddies. We spoke to every one of them when they came back and everyone gave an image like he is upbeat, was very happy. He celebrated his 26th birthday on 21st November, the day before he died. What more do we need to give an account of his happy mood? Well, exactly. And if you, you know, at a certain age, you know people who've killed themselves, and typically, you know, the suicide follows a morose period of isolation, the person sitting alone in his apartment drinking. He died the night he came back from a camping trip with his

high school and college friends. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Our attorney, he came to his apartment with us. And the moment he inspected his apartment, he said he had fresh supplies ordered. He has so many packets unopened. This doesn't look suicidal at all. So, and the photographs that you took, which we'll get to in a minute, you know, I just want to say, this is not the first time I've been contacted by a family saying, you took, which we'll get to in a minute. You know, I just want to say, this is not the first time I've been contacted by a family saying, you know, our child ruled a suicide,

but we think it was a murder. I mean, many people have claimed that. I've never seen anything like this before. This is, I think, again, to any fair person suggests that he was murdered. But let's get to that. So what do you know? He came back from Catalina.

And if you don't mind telling us what you know about what happened then he comes back that evening to san francisco he came around like 11 o'clock he texted me his flight is taking off that was on 22nd and then 454 he texted saying that it's pouring in san francisco and when he got off uber leasing off his manager he has apparently seen suchir coming off with big suitcase and other things and then suchir said yes i'm coming back from la that's somewhere between 1 to 2 p.m that day and then he spoke to dad at 7 15 p.m he was very happy and balaji said like shall we go to csi ces in las vegas in january because it was raining here dad brought up the concept that you know weather will be great in january and so she said yes and dad gave him a birthday gift gave him a birthday gift birthday gift because 21st was his birthday.

He said he'll send him cash, just a token of love. And Suchira accepted it. And that's the night he died. That day he died. So his last conversation with his father was

what time, roughly? That's the last conversation. That was the last conversation. I called the next day, 12..m phone rang once and it went to voicemail um when did you learn that your son was dead that was on 26 25th i went to his apartment knocked on the door no one one opened, I called the dispatch unfortunately it took a day of effort for us to get his apartment open, 25th they went and they didn't even call me back what happened, apparently they have gone and knocked on the

door, they didn't bother to open the door, they just said okay nobody is opening the door and they went back, security guard from the apartment complex says he saw the fire truck and the ambulance and the police and they went back 5 30 i waited waited and waited and 5 30 pm when i called on monday 25th they said ma'am unless you are here we cannot open the door next morning unions i went to union city police station that's where we live and filed a missing person complaint i waited for one one and a half hours but both the parents mean math when we started calling all the hospitals in san francisco area to see if he he may have had an accident why he's not responding to us what happened to him moment we found that he was not in any of the hospitals we took a deep breath okay he's not responding to us what happened to him moment we found that he was not in any of the

hospitals we took a deep breath okay he's safe but when we went to his apartment one o'clock i went to san francisco and the dispatch came at 109 until four o'clock we were not told anything um and then you got a call from from the city no that was not how it went 109 two people two officers came and they went with the leasing office manager leasing manager and i'm waiting outside they didn't allow me inside the premises i'm waiting outside the complex then 113 they have seen apparently that's what the report says they've seen the body within 5-10 minutes they came out and they told me no we didn't enter we're waiting for two more officers we have a security protocol we cannot go inside around two o'clock two more officers came but

they knew your son was dead and they lied to you? They didn't tell at that moment. Two o'clock, they have a protocol. I don't blame them. Two o'clock, two officers came. They went inside. 20 minutes, they came back and said, we're waiting for two more officers. We have security protocol.

We can't go inside. And they said at two o'clock, they said, ma'am, you can go back home. We'll inform you in five to six hours. I said, I'm not going anywhere. They told me it's going to take some time for the next two officers to come. I said, let it be. Please give me the phone number.

I'll contact them and find out if there's any way we can expedite it. My son's safety is in question. I cannot wait any longer. And then at 3.20, I saw a big white van coming and my heart sank. So they knew as they were speaking to you that your son was dead but didn't tell you? They didn't tell. That's disgusting. That's inhuman. Sorry. It is. It is. And you know they're asking me to go home. And how I knew my son was dead is looking at the white van.

At that moment, I knew ambulance didn't come. And instead of, even then I was optimistic, okay, maybe ambulance wasn't available. They sent another van. And when I just saw a stretcher that came out, I went and spoke to the officers who are the medical examiners. They said we have a dead person in the apartment. That's how I came to know. We first did a deal with black rifle coffee evan the ceo sent us like a case of coffee beans and honestly i have not had any coffee since then in the past eight months it's not made by black rifle we are obsessed and it's not just coffee they've got high energy drinks, tons of merch that's very cool.

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in the FIFA Club World Cup. The world's best players, Messi, Haaland, Kane, and more are all taking part, and you can watch every match for free on DAZN starting on June 14th and running until July 13th. Sign up now at DAZN.com slash FIFA. That's D-A-Z-N dot com slash FIFA. I'm so sorry. That is really, I mean, that is, I didn't know things like that happened. That is awful. It's a gated community.

He had a gun with him to protect himself. What more can be expected in America than this? It's a very reputed apartment complex. Not that it's cheap or something. They have four or five units, four or five buildings, I mean to say. Did the officers at the scene give you any indication of how they thought your son died? At 4 o'clock, they came to the leasing office and the medical examiner said he shot himself, he killed himself with a suicide.

At that moment I raised to them, look, my son went into New York Times, he's a whistleblower and he doesn't look suicide to me they just didn't want to listen he bought a gun it belongs to him nobody went into the complex nobody came out he was all by himself and it's a suicide and how long it took can you believe it 40 minutes to investigate 40 minutes to determine the date cause of death and at four o'clock they give me the keys for the apartment and they say you can collect the body tomorrow like right from that moment i see fall play proper formalities were not followed and the next day they released the body within 24 hours without doing the complete autopsy

they removed the bullet they did the ct scan just returned the body to us then we just checked with the funeral home and we discussed with them and then they also said looks like it doesn't seem normal there's something very unusual here you should do a second private autopsy. The funeral home suggested that. Yes and even we were thinking, both of us were also thinking funeral home also suggested we were shattered obviously right, we were completely shattered we just didn't know what's going on and seeing our son like that and they said like his eyes are gone with the gun wound don't see his face. We couldn't see him.

But the fact that the funeral home, which of course sees dead bodies every day, said to you, this doesn't look right, doesn't look like a suicide. We recommend that you get a second autopsy, a real autopsy. That's amazing. Actually, they didn't look at the body they didn't look at any evidence but the way the information was given to us and the way the procedures and policies need to be followed and norms were not followed according to them before they received the body itself they said this doesn't look normal and we addressed the concern that it could be some

foul play here and we knew from the very moment we heard the news, we know it's not suicide. Next day, in the death news, and I'm shattered, calling police, calling medical examiner, coroner's office, homicide unit. We've done everything we can. So tell me what you know about what's been proven from the CCTV, from, there are three entrances to this building. One of them is gated. It has CCTV. Other two entrances don't have CCTV.

And why are we ignoring that nobody came in, nobody went out? And also what we just recently discovered is his packages are missing. His roommate or no, his neighbor in the apartment apartment complex he mentioned that in the they have a shade package room they have a shade bin or basket or something he's seen suci's packet until december 31st he reached out to me through twitter on x platform when i tweeted he found out i'm suci's mom and he said have you picked up suci's packages i don't see that after january 1st those packages are missing when we talk to that neighbor he said like it's very common that packages get lost in September they received a notification that if you see so and so man then let us know and that tells us a lot about

the security and you know like there's a compromise of key there's a compromise of entrance all of these need to be investigated obviously when there is a murder so let's uh let's get to the reason that i am anxious to do this interview which is this um report that you commissioned um dr dinesh rao um and it contains contains his analysis of the condition of your son's body based on an autopsy, I believe. And it critically contains seven crime scene photographs that you took in your son's apartment. Is that correct? That's right. There are seven evidences that were very critical, which has not been picked up by the authorities. Within 40 minutes, they concluded they haven't even picked up critical things like a bag with blood that has my son's saliva in it. They haven't picked that up.

And how could they miss haze falling all over from the wig? Right. So that's what I want to get to. So the two things that jump out to me, the first thing that jumps out, and it's very obvious from the photographs that you took is that there's blood all over the apartment so the official explanation is that your son shot him and i'm sorry to i know this is hard but i think it's important to go through this um the official explanation is your son shot himself once in the head and the bullet entered the brainstem

and extinguished life immediately can i say something yes it didn't touch his brainstem and extinguish life immediately. Can I say something there? Yes. It didn't touch his brainstem at all. Oh. It didn't even touch his brain. And the angle is downwards. Yes. I'm saying the official explanation is he shot himself once in the head, he died. Yes. But these photographs show that that's not at all what happened.

Because there's blood all over the apartment. There's blood on the door, on the floor, in the bathroom. There's blood on the door, on the floor, in the bathroom. There's blood everywhere. So that right there, just employing common sense, tells you that the person from whom that blood came, your son, presumably, did not have a fatal brain injury, at least when he was bleeding. I mean, something was going on in the apartment, right?

The second thing that jumps out is that there is a tuft of hair that's not hair. It's from a wig. It's from a wig. And there's a clip scene. It's okay. So tell us what that is for people who don't know. It's a part of a clip in wig. Like there's some kind of plastic band or something that fits the wig on the head. We can see that coming out behind the door. And that's obvious evidence that no crime scene investigators or police can miss. They just ignored everything that showed murder and they picked up everything that showed a cover-up suicide. But how could they ignore? So your son did not. I mean, he was a 26 year old man with short hair from pictures. He's not wearing a wig. No, no, no. He's not. And these hairs are not his. This investigator's analysis looked at the hair from the autopsy pictures, but my son's hair and this hair, this is not his hair. And the portion of the wig, the clip in wig has blood on it. Yes. wig the clip-in wig has blood on it yes okay so as a you know non-forensic investigator myself i look at that and i'm saying that's a that's a where did this come from and there's blood all over the apartment um right there i would say this is you know maybe it's a suicide but you're

gonna have to tell me how because that you know what is that it's not a suicide. It's a homicide, obviously. We have enough reasons to believe that. One is coming from the private autopsy. It's not a suicidal angle at all. So you said that, and let me let you explain. It's not a suicidal angle. So you had the crime scene. Your son's body was taken away.

It was evaluated in some way by the authorities. They say this is a suicide. You have a real autopsy done by professor Rao and he says what about the bullet angle will you explain that the autopsy was done by Dr. Joseph Cohen okay and he says two things one of them is the bullet angle is going downward about 30 to 45 degrees downward it's been shot here it's missed the brain second thing is there's a head injury on the left side of the head in fact i spoke to medical examiner's office executive director i told him there's a head injury the sign of struggle in the bathroom he just declared that i'm the decision making authority of state of California. I decide the cause of death.

And when I brought up, we'll have federal investigation. There was a momentary setback in his voice on the phone, but still they're holding on to suicide. So Dr. Cohen's autopsy, and this is grisly, I'm sorry, but shows, demonstrates, proves that the bullet was fired at what angle? Yeah, it's downward angle that someone cannot shoot themselves. Right. So in other words, if this were a suicide, your son would have had to have held the gun to his forehead coming down. He was made to sit. If you look at the same thing, like the victim was sitting down. He was made to sit someone standing he shot him down in fact like balaji and i my husband and i are going to create a virtual reality once we get

all the evidence we'll create a virtual reality video and present it to court what exactly happened to him at that moment you also said if i heard correctly, that he had another head injury not caused by a bullet. Yes. Can you tell us about that? Actually, it appeared to us that from his fallen toothpick and blood in the sink and all that, it appeared around 10-ish. Because 10-10 is his last browser history on the desktop. He was brushing his teeth before going to bed. He was attacked from behind on the head. That's where this fallen dustbin, there's fallen toothpick. And his ear bud has fallen in two different directions because of the head impact.

And we believe after that he was either electrocuted or he was, you know, like he was paralyzed from the head injury. And then they just held him up made him sit and shot him but also we know that that we are waiting for further report but that may not be the cause of death the gunshot wound is not the cause of death and probably they might have suffocated him we don't have any details of that cruelty but we're waiting for further reports from cd scan why do you believe the gunshot was not the cause of death because it's not touched the brain it only causes uh makes him unconscious so the autopsy showed that the bullet did not touch his brain yes and also since i called a apartment the apartment on 23rd at 12.15pm, it rang once and it went to voicemail. That makes me believe the killers were still there in the apartment. Again, we need to verify all that. We can do something called geofencing. Through that, we can figure out who was was there who was visiting that complex and all that

information that's exactly why we need thorough investigation you certainly do you said your son's last browser record is from 10 p.m ish 10 10 p.m and what was he looking at do you know um i think he was looking at a black cat or something because last time in suchira and i met a cat was going in front of me and then i told him it's a superstition and then he was looking at um uh neuroscience topics and he logged into a website for those you know for the startup or something like that he logged into a website for the startup or something like that. He logged into a website and he was doing some research. So he wasn't looking up, how do I kill myself? No, that's the first thing that we look for, actually. Of course.

Of course. Of course. I mean, killing yourself is a profound decision. People, there are signs. And can I say something? It doesn't add up. If he's so brave to go to news media to be a witness,

he's so courageous. How does someone so courageous do a cowardly act? It doesn't add up at all. What doesn't add up is there's blood all over the apartment. And there's a piece of a wig on the ground covered

in blood that's not his wig and you know you you don't need to be a detective to imagine that if someone's going to commit a murder he might be wearing a wig as he goes into the apartment so that right there considering your son didn't wear a wig as a 26 year old male um you know these were not his that's also another thing what weren't his those hairs were not his hair we have the picture of his hairs his hair is fallen down in the bathroom sink that is different from the wig in the hair in the wig his original hair have been found on the floor They might have strangled him by his hair or something. His hair has fallen down.

That hair versus the big hair are different. Did anybody hear anything in the apartment? Did anyone hear the gunshot? No. No one heard anything? No one heard anything. And two entrances into the complex have no surveillance cameras.

Yes. Wow. It makes the hair on your arms go up. Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah. Again, I've been involved in many stories like this, more than five, and I've never seen one like this. This is brutal. It's unbelievable.

So what's unbelievable is it's so obviously not a clean-cut story. I mean, you wouldn't walk into an apartment with blood splattered everywhere and see a man on the floor with a gun in his hand and say, oh, it was a suicide.

Well, how did the blood get in the bathroom? He shot himself in the head. Like, that doesn't even make sense. It was a cover-up, right? So they picked up what they want to pick up. We don't know

if they have been instructed to do this beforehand. So, okay, let's, thank you for describing all that and I'm sorry, I know it's awful. Yeah. But tell me how the authorities responded, if you don't mind. Authorities have been very indifferent. In fact, we hired an attorney, a senior attorney. He wrote to chief of police, city administrator, chief medical examiner, executive director of medical examiner.

He wrote very clearly, couple of points. One of them is he was not suicidal. Before making a decision of suicide, they need to take his mental state into account. Yes. He has happy pictures. They shared the pictures. He just came back and he said, talk to four of his friends who accompanied him. side they need to take his mental state into account yes he has happy pictures he they shared

the pictures he just came back and he said talk to four of his friends who accompanied him and he also said the autopsy information in that letter the autopsy report says that this is the angle of gunshot it doesn't look suicide at all a doctor described this as atypical abnormal worrisome angle we wrote all of this to them we just had them to reconsider it and do the investigation chief of police apparently has agreed to do investigation but medical examiner stopped it he said no this is suicide and the retonic came back and said what they said was oh yeah the angle looks different. So what? It's a suicide. A man shooting himself in the forehead from a downward angle.

Yeah, okay. I'm not even sure if that's possible, but- We are going to demonstrate that. We just ordered a dummy gun. We're going to create a dummy of his size and we're going to demonstrate using the VR or using the video. We're going to demonstrate to people it's not possible.

Who is the medical examiner who refuses to reconsider a pretty obviously silly explanation for this? His name is David Hellman. David Hellman is the San Francisco medical examiner. But he has been covered by David Sewell, who's executive director. Every time we call, it's him. And even the news report is given by David Sewell, who's executive director. Every time we call, it's him. And even the news report is given by David Sewell. There's no Paul Soule. And who is David Sewell?

He's executive director of medical examiner's office. He is the one who's holding on to suicide despite of seeing all the evidences. He wants to declare it only suicide, nothing else. What does he make of the bloody wig and the blood splattered in the bathroom when your son was not found in the bathroom like how does he explain that um he didn't want to listen to it he didn't want to pay attention to any of the things that we were saying and you know the worst struggle here is the first attorney he was reluctant to help us when he said so, when medical examiner's office said suicide, he didn't want to fight because they have been threatened obviously.

Then we hired a second attorney, he got a crime scene investigator and our attorney said, we'll give you explanation of every blood mark and he came back this Monday and he gave explanation and none of that explanation he gave corroborates to what happened in the apartment based on what we see that means even the crime scene investigator was bought he gave inaccurate results if both the attorneys are like this then where do we go we definitely need some serious help here from the authorities okay so the authorities would begin with the mayor of san francisco mayor of san francisco actually sam altman is on the transition committee for the new governor he's surprised the new mayor the new mayor sam altman's a friend of the new mayor yes okay

so let's move up then you go to the governor of California, Kevin Newsom. We're trying to. We are first trying to meet the district attorney of San Francisco, DA of San Francisco. We probably are going to get an appointment sometime next week or later this week. It's mid-January. Your son was killed in November. We have not been getting any appointment. We wrote to everyone. We wrote to Rob Bonta, we wrote to DA. Like we didn't get any appointment from any of them. Five weeks were wasted by our first attorney. He does nothing.

He just keep prolonging, prolonging, prolonging. He wasted five weeks. Then we hired a second attorney. It's been almost two weeks since we hired. But now like we just didn't trust any of these people. We got a report from someone else. And now we're coming to media because these people like none, neither the authorities nor the attorneys are helping us. This needs to go to the Department of Justice, I think, in the Trump administration. I did write. You did?

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Conditions apply. has anybody in a position of authority in the state of california said to you boy this needs more investigation it doesn't look right everybody is suppressed no one has come in our favor in fact even our attorneys whom we hired have been made to tell us a suicide to us every day from hanging out with his buddies okay so which is like a happy thing it's no evidence that he was suicidal whatsoever and tons of forensic evidence that he was murdered so on what grounds are they saying it's very likely he killed himself okay that's because of the cover-up remember like there was a gun near him he owned a gun and they put a shell casing and four bullets near it they made it look like it so there are both the evidences right for the medical examiner to pick up he

picked up the one that looks suicidal he ignored the one that looks like homicide that's what it is so now to sam altman what contact with sam Altman have you had since your son died? We contacted HR for 401k plan details. Until then, no one from OpenAI ever contacted us. They gave the PR report that they're supporting the family. How? So, she obviously put parents in his emergency contact, right? They got the death news on December 13th.

They made no attempt to contact us and when we reached out to hr sam altman said he wants to talk to us by then we already knew suchir was you know his presence or his living would have been a threat to ai industry in general i wouldn't want to name one company but eventually it's going to expose everything right so we didn't want to talk to sam altman and then they said we provide employee assistance program though he was a former employee we said we have medical insurance we don't need it then they pushed us saying we want to get you on a zoom call asap to go over his stock options then our response to that is why are you in a

hurry we are not we've lost our son we're grieving money is not important to us please talk to a probate attorney and we had a probate attorney talk to the hr this is our they wanted to talk about his stock options yeah that's why they wanted to get us on a zoom call do you think um do you believe you can't know i guess but do you think that sam altman was involved in your son's death we don't know we need to investigate it we can't you know we can't say anything at this time but one thing i know for sure is if he was deposed there are few organizations who could have been impacted for that matter. Like there are a lot of AI companies which violate copyright law.

And we don't know what OpenAI wanted to hide when my son deposed. What was the wrongdoing that he would have brought up? Not just the copyright law. That's exactly we need FBI to investigate thoroughly. Was there any criminal activity? Was there any criminal activity? Was there any illegal activity? We don't know, right? Why?

Why would they silence him? What would he have spoken? If it's just a copyright law, do you think these big organizations like Microsoft and OpenAI care? No, they don't care about it, right? Because they have money and power. What else was involved in the deposition, in the testimony took my son's life we need thorough investigation so you haven't seen those documents you don't know okay there are two things here one is the custodial documentation right the

second thing is his own statement his own statement we heard from few former employees of open ai there are certain wrongdoings there like what we can't say something that someone shared right so i would want to keep it more you know just overview that something like that so that is the reason they're hiding and you know what if we come and tell openly our life could be at risk. But we are taking the risk and coming out and telling publicly that the reason our son was killed because he knew something that was going on. Keeping in mind, he was feeding the data, right? Pre-training data. So to be clear, you think this is not simply about Open ai stealing you know copyrighted material it's

there's more than that more than that hundred percent sure because copyright data obviously my friends and i were all talking these companies they get many lawsuits like this right sure do they really care about it no what is the kind of thing they do care about? What kind of crimes do you think they would kill someone over? Stealing some data that could cause a violation, possibly. They might be stealing some data. From the U.S. government, from other governments? Yeah, something like that. Maybe government is involved, we don't know.

We're speculating. That's just a remarkable story. Do you think that we will find out? Like, how will the rest of us find out what your son testified to? That's exactly why we call out to President Trump to do a thorough investigation. We want a FBI director to be assigned to investigate this this is not just about copyright this is about a lot of other things that are going on that could cause harm to society potentially not just my son's death there's something harmful that need to be evaluated and like thoroughly investigated that's exactly why they're covering up a suicide.

Why do you think medical examiners, the executive director would come and tell? Why do you think nobody gives us appointment? Because there's some kind of foul play and there's strong power behind a medical examiner. So you're saying that AI itself poses a threat to the world and that your son understood this yes he understood it but he was keeping in mind that's one aspect the other aspect is he knew everything open ai does yes and

he might have actually felt um overwhelmed by what kind of activity he got involved in and we know that he spoke to a copyright attorney which is again a cover-up we suspect and what Matthew Butterick told us on November 29th is yes I met with your son he's a very brave man so she told us what OpenAI did to him he didn't say anything beyond that that day he said I live in San Francisco LA I come san francisco quite quite a few times and i'm going to talk to you next time when i come and then he's been silenced he's not telling us anything we had a ratani call even then apparently he did not say so if we depose him he's going to spill out everything and also we suspect he's sam altman's friend and he's played against our son and has indirect involvement we

don't know. Wow. There was a moment where Sam Altman left his own company or seemed to leave his own company for a few days you may remember this. What was that do you know? Sam Altman was fired. This was because of AI safety issues. the board of directors for open ai from the non-profit side especially one called ilia sesto he and others excuse me fired sam altman and then all the 700 employees including my son wrote a letter or a momentum saying that if they don't reinstate sam altman they're all going to resign so they brought sam altman they fired ilia who's ai safety expert and to be honest few days after my son's death was announced december 15 ilia was seen in a presentation in one of the conferences he had

two security guards with arm you know with firearms around him. He was so scared of his life. So we are seeing a mafia behind all these things, honestly speaking. What were the safety issues that caused Sam Altman to get fired, do you think? We don't know if it's a safety issue or whatever. We don't have the details of it. Even my son doesn't know any of these things in fact he supported sam altman's reinstating yes you said that yeah yeah

like a lot of ai safety people have been leaving open ai if you notice their cto mira i don't know her last name their cto also resigned many people have been leaving open ai not just the researchers big why that's exactly i want to know why there's so many people to leave obviously there is something right that they're not happy about right only person who spoke against them was my son rest of them just quietly walked away my My son, he couldn't take it. He felt like, you know, he needs to stand up and tell the truth so some harm can be prevented. We need to investigate all this seriously.

Did your son ever mention, during that period when Sam Altman left, that very brief period, there was a report in the news media that said within OpenAI, AI itself was being worshipped like a god. Did he ever mention anything about that? No, he didn't. Suchil didn't mention.

And do you have any sense of what these harms are? I mean, clearly people are afraid of what AI can do, not just by eliminating jobs, which is enough to worry about, but there are other things that people are very concerned about. Do you know what they are? They are in my son's publication. Some of them he's covered. One of them is like less traffic means the loss of jobs. That was one of his concerns. I'm proud of him for bringing that up. He gave the graph graphical representation of how the traffic is reduced to stack overflow and fuser website that are a means of living for people that will be taken away that's his concern and also the accuracy as i mentioned earlier in

the interview the accuracy of data and also he says something called like the modulation index or something, 0.5 versus 1.0, he tells in his article, if it's 0.5, the data in and data out are not the same. If it's 1, data in and data out are same. Most companies, including OpenAI, use 0.5. That means the data accuracy is not maintained. That is his biggest concern. He being kind of like an an architect inside he knows in and out of chat gpt what happens next

if my son were alive he was planning to bring a competition to open ai he was working on a medical startup i even checked with him how do you think it's a competition? Not directly. Mom, it's an indirect competition, he said. He would have been a great humanitarian. He would have done a lot of causes for humanity with the concerns he had. We lost a great human being, not just my son, who would have made a big difference to the world. Now, what we want is we want justice, we want death sentence to the one who killed my son as well as the imprisonment for people who are behind it. We don't know who it is but we want to know and we want to know what my son stood against and take actions at least in honor of him, at least do something that he stood for and, you know, let his soul be at peace.

What happened to the piece of wig found on the floor soaked in blood in your son's apartment? Where is it? It's still there. We didn't pick it up because we want police to go and look at it. It's in the apartment right now? Nobody came to do the investigation. We have the apartment keys. Nobody came to do the investigation.

We have been requesting police. It's sitting there right now? Yeah. Still there. We didn't pick up anything Nobody came to do the investigation. We have been requesting police. It's sitting there right now. Yeah. Still there. We didn't pick up anything because it's crime scene evidence. But no one's investigating it as a crime scene. No. In fact, like our attorney said up to December 31st, these people will retain the apartment.

In fact, we are paying the rent and we are maintaining the apartment as is because we want someone to come and investigate all these things with so much evidence if medical examiner still calls it suicide this is an ethical question the regulatory question so it's just sitting on the floor right now yes it's the same place we didn't touch any of that wow this is a really crazy story it is reality right it's not a story it's how gruesome it is and like you see all the bloodshot like there was a fight and my son has been tortured he didn't die immediately and where where can we go with where is peace of mind for us we can't we just don't have any peace of mind our life is not normal at all the only thing that could make a difference after the loss of our son is get him justice punish the wrongdoers protect ai did you know that california was this

corrupt yeah we know it's very corrupt that That's exactly why we're requesting FBI thorough investigation. We did speak to an agent, I think last Friday. We're waiting for that agent to get someone assigned, if we know special agent or something. And we also know that there's a transition period in the government.

Some may be moved, transferred, some may be leaving. So we just thought, okay, let's wait. Meanwhile, we did all the ground work that we needed to do we have the evidence we are here in the media we're telling the media now we want a new oncoming federal government to intervene because newsom we know trump himself makes a lot of statements against newsom we don't we wrote to rokhana you talked to rokhana congressman from silicon valley we wrote to him no response

from him many people no response from rokhana yes many people tried to reach out to him not one many people no response from him because they're all inside right all this tech lobbying okay i'm gonna you know what i'm gonna text rokhana right now please do i'm going to and iokana right now. Please do. I'm going to. And I'm going to send him this right here. And Rokana has not responded to you? Yes. Okay. I filled in a form in his website.

I gave my phone number. I gave all the details on his website. Many people whom we know have tried to contact rokhanna they took my email address and they said rokhanna will reach it's been two weeks he hasn't reached us initially we thought it's holidays time so he's little busy but even it's 14th of january today no response yet okay um. I'm I'm going to, I just texted him right now and I just sent him pictures of the relevant information and I hope that you'll

try again. I mean, Ro Khanna is the Silicon Valley member of Congress. We don't believe in state government at all. We know how corrupt it is, especially in San Francisco Bay Area. It's very, very corrupt. We don't believe in the system.

Unless, you know, we change the governor, we won't believe anything will happen here. We need to go to federal. And we also found out that he's protected under the Whistleblower Act as well. You found out what? I'm sorry. Whistleblower Act as well. What? I'm sorry? Whistleblower. There's a federal aspect as well. Yeah, he's a whistleblower. Yes.

There are two things here. One is wrongful death. One is a whistleblower. The whistleblower comes under federal because the lawsuit was filed in New York and he was a custodian witness. So we have a backing from federal government involvement. If it's just the state, corrupt state would fight against it. Since it is federal they can overtake the federal aspect we are writing to federal trade commission now today or tomorrow and we want them to do a quiet investigation of the case we have a top attorney

in whistleblowers that's helping us prove one of means's contingency basis. We will work with him and bring the truth out. I mean, your son was born in this country. You can't murder American citizens because they're standing in the way of your business. That is not allowed

in this country. You can't do that. Imagine we are immigrants here and we came here, we raised our son, we were so proud of him. We don't expect this to happen in this country in america no that's right we don't expect this to happen like sense of security

has been lost for me ever since do you worry about your safety potentially now that like we've gone so public they may not target us yes but there might be some kind of you know threat in terms of accidents or something like that can potentially indirectly they could harm us that they cannot be caught we are we suspect that and i don't go out alone anywhere because i'm more vocal so i don't go out alone for walk or anywhere i always take my husband along and we make sure if we go somewhere we inform our friends where we are we just keep letting people know in fact like i don't want my family from india to visit me because it's a big risk for them has the new york times called you to do this story we called new york times two days after we got his body and we told, I think his name was, I don't remember his name.

So we told him many times they haven't even interviewed. They ignored it completely. And he said he'll get back. He will say he let us know what he can do. And he doesn't even take our call. What about the television networks, CNN, NBC, Fox? Is anyone? Nobody.

ABC just relayed the candlelight vigil that we had for Suchiran Milpitas. 1.5 minutes they relayed of the vigil information, ABC News. Local. Now, we just received this evidence today morning, we probably might reach out to some of the news media. Now that we have this evidence, news media will talk to us. We want to take it much forward. Yeah, I don't, for the third time,

I just want to say this again. I don't think anybody, any honest person could look at this and say, oh yeah, that's a suicide. I mean, I just, you know. We were hesitant because like, they can try to manipulate the evidence anybody any honest person could look at this and say oh yeah that's a suicide i mean i just you know we were hesitant because like they can try to manipulate the evidence or something like that we were very hesitant you know like they can even attack the apartment remove everything clean up you know like some things crazy things like they might cause a fire and then let the you know

water sprinklers go on and it will destroy the evidence or something, right? That's why we were very quiet. We didn't go to media until we got this authoritative report. It's very scary. Well, I'm grateful that you're making as much noise about this as you are and you're as aggressive as you are. Thank you for doing that and i'm gonna whistleblowers lives matter we cannot lose it honestly i was talking to my son

i expressed concerns about his whistleblower activity but what i was thinking was he won't get another job because he's going against employer right he kept assuring me he has his own startup plans but taking his life is something that I never expected. This is not the first time. Two whistleblowers from Boeing were found dead last year. One of them exactly the same way. Another one died in the hospital. They drugged him.

This is America. Yeah. Thank you for this we need to protect them most whistleblowers we were talking to the whistleblower attorneys most of them they don't even know there is support there is not enough awareness

going forward we want to create awareness and help others not just that there should be some kind of regulation protection and i'm sure we are going to talk to new york times at some point of time and said how did you put his life at risk if he was a custodian witness why didn't you give him protection why was he left alone right what kind of protection did he have for speaking truth costing his life well i think most americans like you would not even consider the possibility you'd be murdered over something like this.

You know, the penalty you would assume would be, you know, having trouble getting another job, but getting killed in your apartment. And your son, I know I've asked you, so I want to make totally clear, he never mentioned being followed or feeling threatened or anything like that. Actually, I do have some observation. he never mentioned being followed or feeling threatened or anything like that actually i do have some observation after new york times article came he didn't want us to visit he would come home and avoid me going there and he would also come during the weekday not the weekend i want to investigate why was he already under some kind of someone was following him or something i was about to demand him an answer but he's no more like slowly you know like with an adults and like how much can we push him each time he visits i just made sure like he's eating well and he's

healthy and he has strong plans he's has hobbies all of those things but this kind of information why are you coming in the weekdays i was didn't get a chance to push him he was going to come for thanksgiving and that's when i would question him i thought he wasn't even alive till then we didn't have enough time thank you for telling us this story thank you for for hosting us. You know, we want Americans to know what happened. And why has this been covered by news media? Why no one is talking about it? Why they want to repeat like parrots what medical examiner is saying?

Why they don't want to stand up for truth? Why? Are we so sold out for this tech lobbying? Is there any regulation on the amount of money they can spend for lobbying right it's indirect bribe right so they're all sold out can't we do anything i'm an american citizen too and this is totally disappointing like a reporter came home he took the pictures he wrote the article and when I mentioned OpenAI's name, there was so much fear in him.

He was scared. So the tech companies they're controlling and they're turning out to be mafia, controlling the government, controlling the news media, what more harm do we want from them? Do we public, do we need to live in safety or do we need to live in fear? What are we doing? Why are we quiet now? Now that an innocent life is gone, we are seeing so much going on, why are we quiet? Why can't we start Justice for Suchir movement?

Why can't we do rallies? Why can't we go on a non-stoppable movement until we get the justice, until we get the punishment? I am calling out to all Americans to stand with me. We want to do rallies all over America. We want to do vigil all over America. And we want to enforce FBI investigation and punish the culprit. I hope this helps. Thanks for listening to Tucker Carlson show. If you enjoyed it, you can go to TuckerCarlson.com

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