The Tucker Carlson Show - Neil Oliver: How Banks Took Over Empires, and the Truth About WWII, Brexit, & COVID

Episode Date: June 20, 2024

Neil Oliver is a Scottish broadcaster, host of the podcast Neil Oliver's Love Letter to the World and The Neil Oliver Show on GB News in the UK. (00:00) Proud Conspiracy Theorist (18:55) What does Democracy Really Mean? (23:04) The West is in Trouble  (43:12) Is the UK a One-Party State? (50:36) Scottish Independence Debate (1:15:46) Freedom of Speech Under Attack (1:46:41) COVID Pandemic & The Vaccines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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welcome to the tucker carlson show we bring you stories that have not been showcased anywhere else. And they're not censored, of course, because we're not gatekeepers. We are honest brokers here to tell you what we think you need to know and do it honestly. Check out all of our content at TuckerCarlson.com. Here's the episode. I find it really strange that people aren't able to make the distinction between regimes and populations. Well, the whole thing is insane. If you're angry with the Putin regime, okay.

But why would that automatically make you say that you hate Russians? But also compared to... There's 140 million of them. You can dislike Macron and like French people. Why can't people make the distinction? Why do you have to be at war with an entire population just because you don't like the region? It's insane, but moreover, I can like or dislike

anyone I want because I'm an adult man and I'm not a slave, so I can have any opinion I want. We discriminate by nature. It's in our nature to discriminate. But also, it's my birthright. You can't tell me who I have to like and dislike. I'm not going to submit to that.

Last night we were talking at dinner and you expressed some views and I thought to myself, I'm eating with a conspiracy theorist. Well, I think if you're not a conspiracy theorist by now, you're not paying attention. You are often described that way. Does it rattle you? Well, there was probably a time when it would have done, but I've gone through this process in the last four years of realizing that I spent the first 50-some years of my life believing and trusting a certain worldview

that with COVID and everything thereafter thereafter all of that fell apart it's like picking a thread on a on a tapestry the whole thing just fell away into and once once you lose all of the things that you had taken for granted and trusted then i suppose almost by definition you're in territory that others who aren't on the same path as you would call conspiracy theorists. But it's really just, you think, well, if I think now that they were lying to me about that and that and that, were they telling me the truth about anything at all? And you're aware that some of it must be true but it's a it's early yet i've only been in this revelatory process you know the the scales have only fallen from my eyes my naive trust that i placed in in

the establishment and in the institutions that i placed in without really thinking about it terribly much well you were part of the establishment you worked for bbc well i worked for bbc in as much as i was doing contract work for bbc so but i was never directly employed by the british broadcasting corporation i was you know i'd be brought in to do a project and i would be a production company would pitch a project i would be the presenter that was associated with that project and i would be paid by the day for the duration of the project and then i wouldn't be working for the bbc i'm just saying that people watched you on bbc yeah i sure they did. I wrote a column for the Sunday Times in Scotland. I had been for a while the president of the National Trust for Scotland. I was at one

stage I was a fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh. So I was certainly associated with and part of the infrastructure of the establishment. That's absolutely the case. But I did all of it. I hold my hands up and say I did it in a naive way without really interrogating the integrity of those institutions. It was just... Oh, I'm not judging you. I've been there.

I just trusted that... I've always been a political atheist, struggling to vote in general elections, but usually trying to vote for someone to make plain that I was taking part in the democratic process. any political party, any ideology. But I think I thought that the powers that be had mine and my family's interests at heart, whether they were red or blue. Of course. Or whatever. I thought, basically, they're going to keep the lights on. They're going to make sure there's food in the supermarkets.

They'll maintain the roads. There'll be schools open. There'll be a hospital if my family needs it, regardless. But now I just don't feel, well I now know that the establishment doesn't have mine or my family's interests at heart, and that's hard. It's like a grieving process I think. The analogy I would make with that, you know the five stages of grief that we're supposed to go through, the shock, the denial, the bargaining, the anger, the various stages that you're supposed to go through. I'm still, I'm probably four years in just coming to that point where I'm making peace with the fact that I, it's my responsibility that I

didn't see the reality. Yes. it's my responsibility that i didn't see the reality yes that's me so for a while i was angry with them and i still am angry with them but but baddies are just baddies you know baddies do what baddies do my problem is that i feel oh that it's my fault i should have seen that i should have i'm with you i should have understood How could I have been so stupid? So I just think it's really interesting that there's an overwhelming amount of evidence to support what you just said, that the people in charge do not have your or your family's interests at heart at all. In fact, they're working against those interests day and night for whatever reason.

I don't think any honest person can deny that at this point four years in why well compound question what percentage of your friends in 2020 arrived at the same conclusions you have arrived at and what's the difference between you and those who didn't admit what was happening? I would say I've lost touch with everyone from before, really. Everyone! Well, you know, I'm still, obviously, I'm still, my family, that's the family into which I was born, and also my married family, my in-laws, we've all remained as close as we ever were although you know there were differences of opinion about whatever what covid was about the about the products the jabs and so on so there were differences of opinion but it didn't cause any ill feeling or any any schisms there that so those people are still fully we're still it's all very loving and close yes but but work colleagues friends you know

people that i had known in some instances from university days people that had worked beside broadly broadly i've lost touch with all of them there's a handful of people there's literally a you know count on the fingers of one hand the people that as it turns out ended up with all of the same suspicions and have ended up every bit as conspiracist as me. But as I'm sure you would testify, well, I don't know, I'm not going to prejudge your experience, but those people that I partied company with, that void has been filled, that vacuum drew into it a whole other cast of people, in many cases, very unlikely and unexpected.

It was very, it was Trudy and I, my wife and I, we would laugh about, you know, who are you on the phone? Who have you just come off the phone from now? And I would say, and it would seem so bizarre and so unlikely. People that a few years ago, I would never have imagined I would ever have a conversation with, not for any particular reason, but I just didn't expect to be pulled into their orbit or them into mine. So I've been through this process of

shedding one carapace, feeling very exposed I suppose, like something that has cast out like a crab without its shell until the shell hardens again. You know, it's a very raw, nerves jangling, but now it's forming again. And I would say I'm supposed to torture that analogy a little bit. I feel a little bit bigger. You know, I feel as if I have grown because I wouldn't go back if I could press a button and make the COVID debacle not have happened, I wouldn't because what I've learned and what I feel I now understand, or at least that which I think I now have enough wit to ask the relevant questions to better understand, I wouldn't exchange where I was for where I am now. Back to a shallow shallow dishonest life you know and i did i lost all those affiliations that i had you know because of the kind of uh television persona that i had when i was making soft history and archaeology documentaries you get invited to be patron of this representative of that you know just people want affiliation with you so you

know i was i was connected to combat stress which was a veterans charity and i was connected to uh you know the the association of lighthouse keepers and is that a big one in scotland no it's a very fringe little group that people that look after the lighthouse keepers and uh and as i say you know i had an i had i had an agent and i had uh i had a column in the sunday times i had been the president of the national trust i was a fellow of the royal society and all of that's i'm not anymore i'm not any of those things anymore they all distance themselves from me one by one like dominoes dominoes toppling and it it hurts at the time or the first one does like the first punch in the face you know you never get you know every punch you get thereafter is

sore but it doesn't have the shock value of the of the first one uh and so once the parted company with the one oh yeah yeah oh yeah i can see that coming and it's just a it's just a process that i'm glad to be on for me for us my family i've been this is i think of this as the great sorting i mean under this immense downward pressure exerted on the west over the last four years people sort of wound up on one side or the other and it's not a clean political divide it's not even a political divide as you've pointed out it's not a clean political divide. It's not even a political divide, as you've pointed out. It's not left, right, you know, laboratory, whatever. But I've never figured out, and I've thought about it a lot, what is it in people that compel them to move to one side or the other, particularly to the side you're on? You said it's unlikely people

you never thought you'd be talking to. Like, what do they all have in common? It's a question that, you know, Trudy and I and others in a small group of like-minded people, that is the $64,000 question. Okay, so you've thought about this. As they used to say. What is the, what's the common denominator? What's the unifying feature? I don't really know. I think it's, I think there has been a great sorting. I think what happened in 2020, 2021,

the choices that we were invited to make, pick a side, are you going to be with us or not? And a large number of people decided to remain part of the main. The liars. And other people pulled back from it this was the great sorting of our generation yes the first big sorting like that that there has been for decades and i think in some of it i think was simply down to people's natural you know amygdala fight or flight response to threat. I think some people, you know, people, you don't know until whatever the gunfire starts.

That's exactly right. Whether you, you can't predict it until- You think you're brave. Yeah. And, you know, people like, you know, people at Jordan Peterson, you know, have articulated it very well that the, the culture of movies that we were all invited to watch growing up you're invited to think in in world war ii you'd have you'd have been with the french resistance of course you would have you would have you would have hidden your neighbors because the black van

was outside going to take them away that's how people are invited to think that they would be the maverick you would be the one that stands in the face of the tide. And then it happened. Before people realised what had happened, they had been sorted in that way. And I think part of what's really difficult now is that there's no going back, and yet we're all still living together. All the people are broadly still there,

those that jumped one way and those that jumped the other. And we have to find this way to go on because we were invited to see what a lot of people were prepared to do. One of the most difficult parts of it, it sounds silly now because it's really a detail, but quite early on when the mask mandate was still very much, everyone had to wear a face mask. And I was having to go up and down to London for work. I was flying home every Sunday morning and it would be, I don't know, British Airways flight or whoever, and I wasn't wearing a face mask and under any circumstances and I would go through the airport, which was difficult enough.

Wait, if I can just ask you to pause, why weren't you wearing a face mask? Would it just be easier to do what everyone else does and be obedient yeah why are you so disobedient i was well again i was always i was always a rule keeper a law abider i've always had you know i'm not i've never i've never been a protester i've never been an activist anything i'm very much a i'm a you know i just was always i wasn't really paying attention that's the truth of it i just wasn't really watching what was going on you're making archaeology documentaries. Well exactly, I had my own things going on. But to get back to the planes, it would be awkward enough, people watching you in the airport, but then I would go up the steps of the plane, the crew, the cabin crew would be masked and they would say,

you're not wearing a face mask. And I would say, no, I'm not wearing a face mask. Are you exempt? Some of them would say, and I would just say, yeah, I'm exempt. Because in my head I was. As a human being, I am definitely exempt from this nonsense. So I wasn't even lying in my own head. I thought, no, I am exempt because there's no point in this. I'm not a slave. You turn right down into the body of the plane

and be 299 people with face masks on glaring glaring at me and i would think it's it's it's this close you know if someone gave the signal to you know let's pin this guy down in the aisle let's eat him yeah you could see suddenly you could see i am actually at risk here not from the establishment necessarily not from the government in this moment. I'm just, because I have made myself conspicuous. I have stood out from the norm and anything could happen in the next five minutes. And I'd have to do the long walk down to my seat, it'd be 27E or something, some middle seat. And I have to get into it. And sometimes people either side of me would ring the service bell put the light on ask to be

moved to get away from me and of course they couldn't because it was a full flight and then i would have to sit for the hour and 15 minutes or whatever of the flight back up to edinburgh as pariah and then get off the way and i and then rinse and repeat do it next week do it next week do it next week didn't it just like i said that's a silly anecdote. It's not silly at all, it's totally real. But suddenly I saw people and you think gosh it's you could suddenly see how things happen, questions you had thought I wonder how they got that to happen in Germany in the 30s, I wonder how they got that to happen in the terror in France in the you know of course 1789 yeah at the 18th century. I wonder how they got that to happen in Russia.

Well, I don't ask myself that anymore. Because you think, oh. It's one of the saddest things about this country. The country's getting sicker. Despite all of our wealth and technology, Americans aren't doing well overall. Obesity, heart disease, autoimmune conditions, all kinds of horrible chronic illnesses,

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said that and you were attacked as a bigot for saying that oh yeah but but you must have you must have been on the same you surely you were getting the, you know, what was your experience? I don't know. I don't pay any attention at all. So I'm sure I've been called every name. I don't care, you know, at all. But I had checked out mentally for sure. been more sort of I suppose bullheaded stubborn about things and being prepared to stand in the face of things for longer than me so what's you know what's in when you were asking me what did I think was the common didn't what was in what was the common denominator what was uniting all of the people that that were refusing to go along with it what's in what do you think well I just grew up in a different way so I just knew that you know the majority opinion was not always right. I always felt that. And I knew that I didn't care what people thought of me except the people I love,

just because of the way I grew up. And so it was not hard for me at all to take a position that is different from everyone else's. I only care about the people directly around me. So that's just my temperament, I would say. What about then the plight of, you know, a concept like, you know, democracy? We talk a lot. We're brought up in the West to talk about democracy and liberty and freedom and rights. What do you, what's your take on the reality of what democracy even means now because for me i i have been forced through a process of thinking about what democracy even is and wondering what it is that we had that we called democracy and certainly wondering what it is that we have now if anything of that which we used well democracy at least in

my view i mean it's been redefined to mean democracy is a system of government in which the people in charge whether the elected officials the agency heads the people who run well-funded ngos when their views are represented even though they may constitute two percent of the population's views when those views are represented when they're they may constitute 2% of the population's views, when those views are represented, when they're fully in charge and can do whatever they want, that's democracy. That's not my view of democracy. My view of democracy is much more primitive, kind of the peasant view of democracy, which is it's a species of private property. It's ownership. I am a citizen of this country. I was born here. So are my parents. And I therefore have a share

in this. I'm a shareholder in the country. Like I own part of this. Mine, actually. Now I own one 350 millionth of it, but it's still ownership. It's still a share. And you can't treat me like a slave or even your servant because this is my place. And that's what I think democracy is. It's almost like a temperamental, it's a description of the certain worldview that you have about your government and your relationship to that government. So that's how I feel about it.

It doesn't mean that if 51% of the population wants something, it gets it every time. We have a representative democracy, a constitutional republic, as I'm often reminded. But basically, if you have a system where the people in charge don't care at all about what the population thinks, we know for sure that's not democracy. I mean, what did you think it was? Well, as you just said, I, you know, in a state of semi-slumber, just imagined that I was represented in the places of power by the fact that I was able to vote. And I now realise that voting once every four or five years is nothing at all. That's a completely meaningless transaction to me now. It always was. I mean, I see now why I was, oh oh god it's a general election i

better vote for somebody i was always very disconnected from it but now i partly think that that may have been some kind of semi-instinctive realization that it was meaningless anyway but i worry now about quite a lot of people around me talk about direct democracy as a solution to our problems. It's always the Swiss model that's quoted, referenda about this, that and everything. Sort out everything by having a referendum about it. And having gone through the last four years, that worries me because if there had been a referendum about face masks or lockdown or, God forbid, mandatory jabs, we'd have got all of them. The majority vote would have enacted all of those things, mandated jabs, longer, tighter lockdowns, face masks and all of the rest of it

would have been enacted by direct democracy. So now I think the problem you've got there is the majority, you better hope they come to your conclusion. Well, I mean- Because otherwise, you've just, if we take the step of thinking that direct democracy is the way to get us out of these problems, well, in short, I live in fear of direct democracy. Well, so why do you think they're saying that?

I mean, what people leave out, I'm very familiar with Switzerland. I have ancestors from Switzerland. Spent a lot, went to school in Switzerland. I've been there, was there twice this year. I'm not an expert on Switzerland, but I know it well enough to say conclusively their political system works because they have a Swiss population with certain attitudes that have evolved over a thousand years and it works for them. And they vote twice a year and all this stuff. And the cantons have a lot of independent power, very weak central government, et cetera, et cetera.

But that works with Swiss people. They're changing the population of the West, and particularly of Europe, so fast that you sort of wonder, like, what is that? I mean, the idea that there is a thing called a Britain or a Spaniard or a Frenchman or Portuguese people or Belgians or people from Liechtenstein or whatever, that there are sort of populations, indigenous populations in these countries that have a certain national character and language and shared history. All of that is being obliterated by mass immigration. It's on purpose. It's against the will of the populations,

existing populations of those countries. And it's clearly tied to political power. Am I missing something? I mean, look, this is my view from 3,000 miles away. No, without a shadow of a doubt, I think the same thing is, well, you know, it's happening right here. What's obliterating the United States,

but it's harder for the for americans to fight back against it because there's no i mean our indigenous population you know or the american indians who aren't even really the indigenous population but whatever they were here before the europeans arrived they replaced another population was here before them but whatever the point is we don't have kind the, we don't feel we have the moral standing that, say, the Scots would have. Scotland was never, or has not been in a very long time, a colonial power. Like, why are they doing this to Scotland? Identity is a sense of identity, personal identity, the sovereign individual.

And then that coming together to be, you know, maybe a sense of community in your town, and it broadens out to national identity, is problematic. I'm utterly convinced that there's just a huge centralization of power going on. Right. You know, there's an anonymous, faceless cabal of people whose names we don't know, whose faces we wouldn't recognise, who are centralising power. And for the first time, the technology is enabling that to be global. People have tried it in the past. You know, whatever, people have tried to be, have been totalitarian in the past. But the technology and the reach has never enabled a tyrant to control

the whole world but that is there now and i think that's what we are what we are hurtling towards and you know people like eric hoffer and the true believer and so on you know he wrote so effectively about how every mass movement has sought to take away people's national identity and their personal identity. So they want you to, they want you to, they want each individual to turn their back on their parents and on their family as being, you know, you can do better than these people. Their ideas are outmoded, you know, they've, they've messed you up and you'd be, you'd be better off without that influence and likewise they want to cut people away from their national roots their sense of belonging in

a place uh and their sense that they are british or that they are french because once you get people deracinated in that way cut away from their roots uh and and the process is also about making people ashamed of their history, be it their own family history or their national history. I've noticed. So that there's nothing in the past but things to be ashamed of. So you get people to disavow the past, to disavow their parents, to disavow the family, to disavow the nation as it's been understood

and then those people are just dots on a spreadsheet. They're just flickering dots on a screen that can be put anywhere. And now you have a global population that don't belong or feel connected to anywhere. And so you can put them anywhere because they have no roots. And that's been tried over and over again. All the great faiths have done something, attempted something similar. All the great ideologies, all the isms, fascism, communism, whatever, they all seek to do, as Hoffer explains it in True Believer,

they all apply the same tools to get people disconnected until you're just a lone individual that's ready to don a uniform and do something new in the face of utopia. You know, the nowhere place that is the ideal future that's easy to sell people because it doesn't actually exist. But what it means is total destruction. I mean, I see mass immigration in Europe as a form of warfare against the indigenous population. They're being destroyed and degraded. Very obvious to me as a serial visitor to that continent over 50 years, and it gets worse every time I go there.

But I noticed that the people who are from there, whose parents were born there, whose ancestors were there a thousand years ago, in your case, wearing like face paint and skirts with spears or whatever, scary Highland tribes, like none of those people feel free to stand up and say what are you doing like no you can't flood my country with people from another place because they're not scottish and i am and you're wrecking my country like why

can't that's not racist that's just obvious yeah and it's also it's i mean it's also important to remember all the time that these people are being uprooted and moved in in their turn as well oh i agree all all everyone and so you know so what what happens is yes people indigenous populations are being flooded by people from elsewhere but those people have been uprooted yeah by this you know by by the same you know by the same forces of chaos and disruption you know the west has done god-awful things to one country of the Middle East and elsewhere, one after another,

African countries. And those people have been cut away from their roots and they're on the move as well. So everyone's victim in this. Everyone. And where people turn up in large numbers,

where they, you know, from an ethnic and cultural and heritage point of view, don't belong. but that's also not their fault you know they're they're pawns on the board as well and of course what happens is that the the people you know the resident the incumbent population feel threatened by the arrival of the new and they get angry with the incomers when really we should all link up. Everyone should link arms and say, who did this? Calm down, everyone. Just let's sort out exactly how this has happened.

Are we being manipulated? Why are you? Why? Who's moved you here? You know, so it's important because you fall so readily into the time. But do you have that conversation in Scotland specifically? It's very difficult because, of course, everything, any kind of dissent, any kind of raising a voice in that way brings out the same predictable tools from the toolbox.

So you just get caught. You know, I've long ago been described as anti-Semitic for one reason and another. I've been described as white supremacist for one reason and another you know i've had all the labels and and you know you said right at the beginning uh you're you're now known as a conspiracy theorist they're almost badges of honor if you haven't if you're not being tarred with those brushes then you're not you're not doing your bit because if you you can immediately, that old line about you know that you're over the target when you're taking flak

if you're being, if they've got to go, if they've got nothing better than to call you anti-semitic, white supremacist whatever, then you think oh I must be doing something right because that's just the same old box of clumsy blunt tools that get

brought out to shout down anyone who's actually asking important pertinent questions but we're not going to answer them because we're not going to give them the answer because the answer will expose us the baddies even further so let's just let's just dismiss them as is does it still work in scotland in the uk well i think as i say because many people uh are now finding that it's a badge of honour to be, you know, I've been a Putin apologist, I've had that one flung at me, I've been all sorts of things. Just because I've said, you know, we're jumping into all of these stories at the moment in the third act was actually the expression that Jimmy Dore used to me when I had him on my show the other week. And he said, you know, everyone was invited to join the Ukraine story in the third act. But, you know, there's pages and pages of this play before you get to the Russian tanks trundling across the Ukrainian border.

You're coming in late. You've joined the cinema in the last act. Well, there had been a war in progress for eight years. And now it's Israelrael gaza and everyone's invited to like that all started on october the 7th and you go no no no no no so so it's all it's all obvious it's all obvious stuff uh and because those uh turn spotlights onto places and stories and backstories that the the troublemakers the original troublemakers do not want to be confronted with, then hence, you know, shutting everything down, censorship, labeling, you know,

dismissing people as, you know, well, whatever bad name they can think of. How long do they take you to get, to decide you didn't care what they called you? Again, it's that thing about, you know, the first time you get punched, it hurts, but worse than the pain, it's the shock about you know the first time you get punched it hurts but worse than the pain it's the shock but then the next time you get punched oh yeah that's that's that again and i suppose uh around the time because i i came into all of this i suppose or i was seen to come into all of this around COVID and lockdowns and vaccines for children and all of the rest of it. But then, as I say, once I picked that thread and then everything started to, then the big tapestry all started to fray and unfurl, then the next thing that came up then was Ukraine. And suddenly people who had, there was this loose coalition, I suppose, this fragile thing of people coming

together around the COVID debacle and asking the right questions and being militant enough and saying no. There was a cohesion there, but it was as though the powers that be, right, we've been rumbled on COVID, let's get a war going. Wars are great. And so Ukraine started. And a lot of the people that had briefed, it was the propaganda, just taking the official line, accepting the official narrative. And so I suppose it was when I started being accused of being an apologist for Putin, I thought, I've already been an aluminium tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist, anti-vaxxer, you know, granny killer. a put an apology well fair enough i've i've seen the way this works and now that i've collected that badge like a scout i can put that one on my sleeve as well now i put an apology and i definitely don't i really don't care now because if if you're not

being if you're not being accused of being a whatever label then you're not in the debate i just reject the whole premise which is that some group of people who really kind of hate you or have contempt for you at the very least can decide who your enemies are and then require you to agree with them i've never had really strong feelings about r. I certainly wasn't mad at Russia. Why would I be? They never did anything to me. But like Toria Newland in our State Department decides, well, they're our main enemy for whatever weird reason she has for deciding that.

And now I have to sign on to that? Like, I'm an adult man. I can decide who I like and who I don't like. I don't, the whole idea of it. Well, get on board. Well, I don't know. Maybe I don't want to. Like, what? Who would go along with that how could any adult allow some far away office holder agency

head or ngo director to decide what their opinions should be well your opinions as a father of three a married man with a job like what you have to believe does that seem weird to you it does seem well it does seem weird to me I think people are frightened of what of well you know I've as I said you know was talking about that experience on the plane with with my with my barefaced literally you know defines of that that dickat it's extremely uncomfortable to just to stick out to to put your head up to be noticed yeah is i suppose you know actually in answer to your earlier question about what would be a unifying uh characteristic of people that said no i suppose i had already had a long time of being recognizable to some people because of the kind of tell a low level familiarity celebrity whatever you some people would

recognize me from television documentaries that i had made and so i had grown a kind of a harder shell about being looked at and you know whispered, noticed. So sticking out in that way, I was already slightly familiar with. Whereas I think for people who had enjoyed complete anonymity, and then it came to say the COVID thing and not wearing a face mask or asking questions about what their children should or shouldn't put in their bodies, it's very uncomfortable to stand up and be noticed, to be visible. And so because I had a little bit of, I'd grown a little bit of a callous, a little bit of hard skin about being noticed because I was a face from television, I suppose made it that little bit less uncomfortable for me

to then be spotlight about, for the first time in my life, controversial issues. I'd never been controversial in my life, but at least I was slightly familiar with being noticed. When you started to get attacked as a bigot, a crazy person, white supremacist whatever that is um how did the people you love like how did your wife react well you know my treaty's here and right there treaty's in this room and we've been a hundred percent together on all of it she's never blinked you know from from all from all began um and and so i've

always had that absolute for for so many people with with a split happened between partners over some of this i can't imagine how awful that must be because it's hard enough i can't imagine i can't imagine it but we're we've always been 100% together on it and even where in our wider families you know where people took the jabs and whatever, there's never been any trouble. Differences of opinion and people thinking what was the right thing to do, what was the wrong thing to do, but no rancour, no shouting, nothing like that. And so I've always i've mercifully

thankfully i've never been more grateful in my life for uh you know for for trudy because of the way that she responded it's a big change i mean if you're you know if you're married to someone who's on television and who's famous for i don't know his views on the vikings and everyone kind of likes you for that and all of a sudden he's being called, you know, a white supremacist. That's a big change. Yeah, yes, it is. But as I say, she just never blinked.

You know, she didn't blink. Well, you were blessed. In the game of chicken, she just didn't blink. She knows me. She's known me since I was 19. And, you know, when it comes to being called things like anti-Semitic or racist or misogynist or whatever whatever reputing apologist she knows me so she doesn't have to wonder is he you know

because she just she just she's smiling so i you know no you're just really really for so fortunate to have that well well yes yes uh fortune but we also i suppose you know you have to kind of think well we we probably you know chose one another and stayed for reasons and then you think no this as it turns out you know this being you know this being a testing situation this would be part of why i chose this person because yes one way or another i think i probably knew that she'd be like this in a situation like this you know and me for her you know we would just we just back each other up which does make you very invulnerable because this whole this whole process has absolutely in a way that's cliched you do get confronted with what

matters you know and we've uh uh you know when it you know we've i mean we're just we're very we we've been thrust into this from really a very recognizable and ordinary lifestyle you know we've got a mortgage and we've got you know and we depend on a on a regular income to keep the wheels on the wagon like like like like everybody else that's right vast majority of people and and so we so we identify and have that commonality with you know that's what that's why i think a lot of people you know write letters to me from all over the world and they and they stop me in the street to talk to me because you know i think they instinctively realize that i'm not a you know a credentialed academic and i'm not an expert on this thatively realized that i'm not a you know a credentialed academic and i'm not an expert on this that or the other i'm very much just a regular person

with with the same with all of the same concerns that they've got kids at school you all of it the the people were you know were able to were able to identify with but when I say that I've been confronted with what really matters, you think all that stuff about, you know, whether you could afford whatever, I don't know, a second home or luxury cars or all of that, all that cliched stuff that people are encouraged to think about.

You think, God, no, what really matters is spending 24 hours a day with somebody that backs you up and my kids are the same you know the kids were they came through the whole they were under pressure at the time to to take jabs you know you won't be able to go to the gym or you won't be able to go to you know you won't be able to have your socialized you won't be able to travel and they were rattled by that they were you know younger then you know they're teenagers when all of that happened very you know impressionable and vulnerable.

But we got them through that. But they didn't. They ended up choosing not to take the jabs either. And I cannot put into words how much that means to me that they didn't get polluted with

that product. That's it. That's everything to me. Never mind the fact that Trudy and I didn't. The fact that it didn't go into them. There's no salary you could give me. There's no bonus you could bung me that would make any difference. So it's all of that and so it's been, it's hard to talk about it in many ways without sounding almost like you're patronizing people but you know the extent to which I've been reminded about what's important in life is worth all of it. You call me any name you want because I know who I am and my family know who I am

and I can look at my kids and my wife in the eye and she in mine and think, literally no matter what happens, we made the right calls. At Desjardins Insurance, we know that when you're a building contractor, your company's foundation needs to be strong. That's why our agents go the extra mile to understand your business and provide tailored solutions for all its unique needs. You put your heart into your company, so we put our heart into making sure it's protected. Get insurance that's really big on care. Find an agent today at Desjardins.com slash business coverage.

Every journey I take leaves a lasting impact. Traveling the world only makes me realize just how much more there is to explore. No one builds a legacy by standing still. Start your journey at Remover.com. It does seem like, obviously, you're from a different, slightly different culture than we're from here in the United States. It's a much smaller country.

It's an island in the middle of a freezing sea. And there does seem to be a greater level of conformity in the UK than there is in the United States. Do you think so? Is that how it strikes you? It does. I mean, it's a more obedient culture. You never had a Wild West. You didn't have gunfights since Christianity showed up, et cetera.

But it does seem, and I'm judging this from your media landscape, it seems like you and Russell Brand, maybe there's somebody else, George Galloway, there don't seem to be many dissenters. Describe the media in the UK right now. Oh my goodness. I have to be careful with my flowery language. Go crazy. Well, I'm appalled.

I'm just simply appalled that we don't have anything that passes for, in the same way that we don't have any representation in parliament, we don't have any representation in the mainstream media. That was- Like at all, right? That was another aspect of what was so unbelievable

and so discombobulating and stressful about all of this because in the early weeks and months of what was going on from 2019, 2020 onwards, there was that period of waiting for the people, the silverbacks of the media world to stand up and do what was required to be done, which was ask some questions. Don't propagandise. Don't just give us the government line and the pharmaceutical line on all of this.

Yeah, stop lying. Challenge it. So that incredible period of wait and every single one of them failed the test. All the mainstream channels, all the big titles, you know, the Telegraph, the Times, the Daily Mail, the Works, they all swallowed it and pumped it back out again. So the media is, we don't have a, well, we don't have a media worth its name. And journalism, in Scotland, for example, had a proud, proud, proud history of journalism. Dundee were truly studied to be a journalist. DC Thompson, you know, an iconic publishing name in Scottish journalism. Jute jam and journalism was the cry from Dundee and a proud, proud history of being ready to hold to the fire the feet of those in authority and overnight either it had

either it had slipped away and we hadn't noticed it was only exposed by Covid or it slipped away as soon as the COVID debacle started. And then realising you're part of that process of casting around looking for, God, we can't be the only people that think this is bonkers and bollocks. There must be other people like this. And then that process of going online. And as you say, Russell Brand, God bless him.

You know, he was already an established podcaster. You know, he was already there doing was an established podcaster you know he already was he was already there doing other things and when all this started he was suddenly to the fore you know asking other things is an understatement i mean he was from a completely different yeah yeah he had no incentive to get involved but when it was when it was required he was suddenly he was there and we were watching we were consuming rus Russell Brand as much of it as we could get. And we were watching you and we were watching George Galloway on the Mother of All Talk shows. And, you know, these funny things, these constellations, you know, all the other stars went out in the night sky.

And suddenly all these new constellations appeared. And you're looking at, thank God, right? Who can we listen to today who may have many points of view in other subjects and other concerns I might not agree with, but they're certainly asking some of the right questions about this. And so the new media stepped into the fray. And if anyone, and they are, people were surprised to see me, a guy that used to make documentaries about Stonehenge and the White Cliffs of Dover and, you know, and waterfalls and Purple Mountain Majesty and all of that. If they were surprised to see me suddenly, you know, spotlight on live television, asking questions about and refusing to comply with this, that. And the next thing,

if people were surprised to see me cast in that role, well, not half as surprised as I was, or Trudy was, you know, looking at me going, how did this happen to you? How have you ended up doing this? I said, well, that's a very good question. I really don't know. But it's like the bit in the airplane, you know, where the pilot's dead with food poisoning and the co-pilot's dead and all the aircraft. And some, you know, schmuck has to come from the back of the plane and sit. Because nobody else is going to do it. A lot of people were suddenly cast into that unlikely role and have taken the dog's abuse for having done so. And their only crime has been to say, hang on, I've got a question.

Before we all leap into the abyss of all of this totalitarian regime, I'd quite like to ask a couple of questions just before we all go. And some of the hardest criticism has come from people that you would have thought ostensibly would have been on your side. I mean, you live in a place where there are, I really don't think the american might we often complain about our media which is stalinist completely stalinist they serve the people in power they'll tell any lie it doesn't matter to them at all but i think it's much worse

in the uk that's just my observation i mean i did watch some of your guys you know eating hamburgers and saying you get a free one of these if you get your jab. Oh, it was totalitarian. And dancing alongside, you know, people dressed up as hypodermic needles. And I mean, I remember all of that. But so yes, it's... But it doesn't seem like any dissent is allowed in your country. For example, tell us about the Scottish hate speech law. Oh, well, I would say that's part and parcel of something that seems to be

happening around the world in a certain kind of western country which is to say either small countries with small populations or quite large land masses but small populations so you know canada australia but you know places like new zealand the anglosphere the english-speaking world but then but then something's equally sinister also happened in Israel, where Netanyahu said, make my people the petri dish of the world. Experiment on these here lab rats. So again, a small population with an authoritarian leader

that just offhand just decided to do what he wanted. But that was true of all of them. So, and yes, Britain, but then Scotland obviously has a devolved administration based in Edinburgh, empowered to take a certain amount of decisions separate from Westminster in London. And we've been under the thrall of an administration in Edinburgh led by the Scottish National Party for what seems like a thousand years. It's been like an SNP Reich. It doesn't seem very Scottish to me at all. Well, I first put my head above the parapet and got into trouble as a contrarian all the way back in 2014, actually, because that was the time of the referendum on whether or not Scotland would remain part of the United Kingdom or would strike out as a separate entity.

And God forgive me, I had kind of been keeping out of it. I had my opinions, but I was keeping out of it. Relatively late in the day, coming up to the vote, I think it was the Telegraph, but one of the big broadsheet newspapers asked me for, what do you think? Would you write us, you know, a thousand words about what you think? And I wrote that, well, to cut a long story short,

that I preferred to stay part of the United Kingdom. Cue the opprobrium from the nationalists those who and and because of I had made television like the history of Scotland and I had been seen as a certain kind of Scottish TV presenter I think a lot of people made the broad assumption I was probably nationalist in my politics which i never have been and and you know never will be but but but none so i go i go into i got into uh trouble then and so i've been on the i've been under attack in from the snp and its little wizards ever since then uh so i have it it's it's important probably in the context of this conversation to make plain that it actually wasn't COVID that first got into trouble. It was the independence referendum. And so Scotland is run by low-caliber people.

Low-caliber, cacistocracy, you know, government by the worst of people. Yes. And, you know, the SNP started out famously. Well, it didn't start out, but at the worst of people yes and you know that the SNP start you know started out famously one of it didn't start out but at the time of the referendum it was led by Alex Salmond who at least was a you know he was an able sure-footed politician and a good auditor you know so he had some he had some game but subsequently it's been Nicola Sturgeon, and it was Nicola, and then more recently Hamza Yousaf, and now he's fallen over his own feet, and he's been replaced by another one, another non-entity.

But it was Nicola Sturgeon through the COVID debacle. And they just seemed to, they reveled in, she reveled in the power, and she reveled in appearing power and she reveled in you know appearing every day to count death tolls and insist on the continuation of lockdown and cutting the six inches off the bottoms of doors and in school classrooms to let air circulate and insane is she a pretty smart happy well-balanced person i would say no, no and no. No tolerance. But anyway, anyway, she's gone. So you have in the SNP in Scotland

people who are drunk with the idea of power. You know, they really, I mean, the very idea that people, that a majority would have put that bunch actually in control of an independent country makes my blood run cold because it was a close run thing for a while. But it's gone now. The threat's gone for a generation if not forever

uh but so they're they're inept they're cacistocratic and when it came to the the hate crime legislation the well they they just seem to go for one offensive, irritating policy after another. They attempted a named persons bill in recent history where they were trying to insinuate between every child and their parents a named person. That could be a teacher, it could be any figure. That person would have been encouraged and the child would have been encouraged to establish a relationship with that named person. If there are things you don't want to talk to mum and dad about, you could talk to this

named person. And your parents would never need to know that those conversations had taken place. This was the named persons bill. It was eventually knocked back at the Supreme Court. But this is an attempt to take in place. This was the named persons bill. It was eventually knocked back at the super this is an attempt to destroy The family. Yeah. Well, that's would certainly be that was my interpretation. What's the other interpretation? Well, it was supposed to be the government has more authority It's the same it's the same reason for you know clamping down on the internet. It's for the safety of children That's what they always say this it's about protecting children from this that and the other and of course

We know it's got nothing to do with that. It's just about safety of children. They always say this. It's about protecting children from this, that and the other. And of course we know it's got nothing to do with that. It's just about taking control of the internet. So the Named Persons Act was, yes, but in line with that idea of if you want to lead a popular movement you have to separate the children from their parents. You've got to put pressure on the family until the family fractures.

It took the Supreme Court, the highest court in the land to finally turn back and stop the named persons bill. But it'll be in someone's drawer somewhere, still under consideration. The hate crime legislation, it's important not to come in on the SNP and the Third Act, so to speak. We've got a long history of this kind of behaviour. And when it came to the hate crime legislation, that was a pet project of Hamza Yousaf, who was the sometime Justice Minister. He always failed in every post but fell upwards. So he was justice and failed and got promoted up to health and failed and promoted up to whatever, one inappropriate appointment after another.

And the hate crime legislation was his was very much something that that he championed and what was it it was it was well you see this a manifestation of it in canada trudeau has brought in similar uh is bringing has brought in similar legislation i don't know if it's called the hate crime it's almost the same name but you see it all over the same thing is happening in Australia the attempt by these would-be these tin-pot dictatorial politicians to have control of the what people say and what people think Hamza Yusuf wanted to criminalize what people were saying in the privacy of their own homes so the idea was that if mum and dad were having a conversation

in front of the television one evening and dad said something if the child inadvertently repeated it in school the next day let's say my dad said so and so the police could come to the house hypothetically and say to the the father what was that you were saying in this house last night we've got you know your your child's you know that was that was the level of it so is hams i mean that's totally north korean i don't even think that happens in north korea actually he's gone now he's but is he considered i mean he should be expelled from your country uh for doing that in my opinion but what is he considered a villain i mean how can he eat that's so evil yes yes you would you would think that any rational person would respond to that kind of notion in the same way,

but look at the way it's happening all over. It's not just happening in Scotland, it's happening all over. It's part of a pattern of behaviour of a certain kind of controlled leader in one Western country after another, who are demonstrably working from the same script. You know, it's no coincidence that all of these Western regimes in these countries are taking similar steps at the same time.

You know, they're not acting independently of one another. They're not all having these dreadful ideas independently at the same time. You know, this stuff is being, it's part of the same pattern that we saw during lockdown where suddenly it was everyone was saying build back better. Everyone was saying narrow window of opportunity.

You know, everyone was saying safe and effective, clearly centralized scripts. It was a pandemic of the unvaccinated. I think we can agree on that. Yes, absolutely. That was a favorite. So, but what is that? What are we looking at? Who's coming up with these ideas, these talking points? What's the point of it all? Like, I don't want to be a conspiracy nut, but the level of coordination suggests that there is, you know, some sort of body atop all of this controlling everything. mean what else feels it feels as though I think it's

getting harder and harder to overlook what seems like the certainty that we're on the cusp of change yeah a paradigm change I would say that we're being that we're being headed towards being herded towards feudalism. Most people, for most of 5,000 years of human history, most people pretty much live in serfdom. In a feudal state, you can describe it any way you like, but it's a narrow, very, very small group at the top with everything, with all the castles, ownership of everything. And everyone else is so far beneath them as to be at insect level and treated accordingly. That is what we're going back to. Really up until the 19th century. It was the way of it for everyone, everywhere. The kind of way of life that has been possible for some of us, a relative handful in the scheme of way of life that has been possible for some of us a relative

handful in the scheme of things a blinking of an eye in the in the great story of human civilization a tiny tiny lucky group for a couple of hundred years in the west were able to live lives of unbelievable liberty and opportunity and equality and aspiration and you know if you if you wanted to you could you know you know get whatever you were capable of achieving for yourself yes and enough generations have taken that for granted that now it's it has fallen and people think that you know food in the supermarkets lights on in the dark you know police on the street that actually care about the people rather than being enforcers for the establishment. They think there's been a misconception that somehow it's just in the natural order of moment, never mind 5,000 years of history, will show that the possibility of living the kind of lives that some of us have been able to live

for a very brief period of time is vanishingly, it's impossibly unlikely what we've had. But too many people have finally, have been taking it for granted one after another that now those who would return us to feudalism have seen, saw the opportunity and have been working towards it and populations all over the West

taking it for granted, being tolerant being nice, keeping their heads down in return for safety and convenience have laid themselves open. They're not in a fit state to defend themselves against a well-organised, well-motivated small group that wants to return the whole thing to some sort of neo-feudalism. But, I mean, that's not to say it's too late. You know, I don't want to be completely negative here,

that I do think it it's still possible i think enough people have realized are realizing all the time and i would say i think wait may i assess one thing so are you suggesting it sounds like you are and you probably are right but that some kind of feudalism is the natural state of man radically hierarchical societies are just natural yes yes absolutely people enslaved you know slavery is a is a you know is a is a natural state of course it just is you know it's been it's been a reality for so many for such a large part of everyone who's ever lived or died well of course through history but i think you know, when in 2016, you know, when we had Trump elected here and Britain voted Brexit.

Subsequent to that, we got COVID and goodness knows what all. Trudy said, perhaps she wasn't alone but she was the person that I had to say it she said those two things were not supposed to happen they were not in the script somebody took that I off the ball and allowed a figure like Donald Trump to elected in America that's right and and for the population of Britain by a narrow margin but nonetheless by a majority to leave the European Union. And as Trudy said, everything we've had since has been a sustained punishment beating

to put those populations back in their box. So everything that's happened, including the evaporation of your southern border, all of that that's happened has been a panicky response by that by a narrow group that saw two things happening off script that were of great significance because it was democratic you know that those were popular votes and now populism is being stamped on all over the all over the world the tractors the truckers revolt, the farmers protests all across Europe. All of these things are being mischaracterized by the authorities as far right, as extremist,

as all of the same labels. And in both cases, the people didn't get what they voted for. I mean, Trump was not able to govern very effectively. He couldn't build the wall that he promised, was investigated and spied on from you know the very first day and i don't think you guys got brexit you voted for brexit right absolutely 52 i think it was 52 yeah 52 to 48 in favor of leaving the european union and from the moment the ink dried on that decision uh the all of the powers that be in the establishment in the civil service uh all all

of across the political parties moved heaven and earth to thwart that decision and so it's been brexit in name only brino uh they've called it because it's now worse i would say that the situation for for those people that aspired to Brexit, they've got less now than they had before the vote happened. Because they've been so comprehensively punished. And Brexit has been so eviscerated. The very concept of it has been so hollowed out. That the people that wanted it have got less than nothing from it.

Because it was populist. And notice also that in the last four or five years, populism has become a pejorative. Whether it's a family member, friend, or furry companion joining your summer road trip, enjoy the peace of mind that comes with Volvo's legendary safety. During Volvo Discover Days, enjoy limited time savings as you make plans to cruise through Muskoka or down Toronto's bustling streets.

From now until June 30th, lease a 2025 Volvo XC60 from 1.74% and save up to $4,000. Conditions apply. Visit your GTA Volvo retailer or go to volvocars.ca for full details. No frills, delivers. Get groceries delivered to your door from No Frills with PC Express. Shop online and get $15 in PC Optimum points on your first five orders. Shop now at nofrills.ca. How can people use the word democracy to describe your country? Well, we don't. That's why I have these fundamental problems about, we certainly don't have democracy. I wonder when democracy went away. I wonder for how long it's been standing there. What's your guess? I really, gosh, I mean, in my most conspiratorial moments, I think something began to happen all across the West after the Second World War. Clearly.

Really, from the middle, during the war and after the war, I think the moves, I don't know if it started then, but I think there was a gear shift. Have you been to Tokyo? Have you been to Japan? I have filmed in Tokyo. So then you sort of wonder when you go to Japan, if you go from London to Tokyo, there's no evidence that the side that won actually won

and the side that lost actually lost. Like if you didn't know the history, you would think, well, obviously Japan won the war. Look at it. Obviously England lost it. Look at England. Yes. What is that?

Yes, I mean, there are all sorts of things that are confusing. I'm not a historian. I love history. I'm fascinated by history. My shelves are full of history books. How many books have you written? Well, written?

Oh, 12 or 13. I think it's fair to call you a historian. Well, but I'm not an academic. I don't have any, and nor do I want to be. I never really have had that. It's not in my nature. I'm not really, anyway, but I'm, so it means that I'm prepared.

I'm perfectly happy to be at home to unorthodox ideas about history because I don't have any academic, I don't have a professorship to defend. Maybe that's why you can see the world clearly. I think it may be that the things that I have said over the last few years, everyone knows they're true. Yeah. It's just that for whatever reason, I've said them. And I've had the opportunity and the platform from which to say them. And because I am just a regular person saying what every other regular person knows is true, that's my... So, okay.

But we've wandered off. I think that's a great... You're qualified enough. You're not an Oxford Don, but you've been right about a lot of things. So I've got basic questions about the Second World War. Okay, well, what are they? Like, clearly something important changed in the West in 1945.

What was that? What's very interesting to me is that, you know, Hitler and Stalin were together at the beginning. Yeah, of course. Of it. And when Poland was invaded, Britain said, we will do whatever it takes to restore freedom and democracy to the people from whom it's been denied. Stolen.

And then what happened, Neil Oliver? And then, you know, you've only got to read any coverage of the Second World War to know that at the end of the Second World War, Poland was left swallowed whole by... Well, they handed it to Stalin. So the stated objective... What is that? The stated objective of Britain declaring war at the time was, well, you didn't do it. You didn't do that. Well, you didn't even try. And in our country, it's illegal to criticize Winston Churchill. He's the

greatest hero in world history. And when you look at the murkiness that happened at yalta you know between you know between you know roosevelt and stalin and churchill and and the fact that uh you know agreements were arrived at somehow where uh many people who wanted whatever you would call west the west they wanted to be the west they were just allowed to be swallowed whole by the communist bloc yeah to the most violent totalitarian in history so they handed these countries they went to war to protect the sovereignty of these countries that they then handed and people were being chased back across specified lines, back into that arms of... So what is that?

Clearly, there's lying here. So what's the truth? We started there because we were speculating about when it all started to go wrong. When the slide towards, you know, anything that ends in "-ism is the same". You know, whether it's fascism or communism or any of these things end up with piles of corpses. You can't get a cigarette paper between any of these ideologies. It's important not to be distracted by whether or not it's national socialism or communism or whatever. They're all the same. They're good for a handful of people and they're catastrophic for everybody else And so clearly Clearly something shifted up a gear

In the West In the middle of the During the Second World War And after And has been moving faster and faster Ever since And I think

There's been an extraordinary Gamble taken now because even people who are in a state of semi-slumber like myself were aware of notions like a social contract, that we as citizens would be represented, you know, no taxation without representation. You know, we would have our views represented. We would have our liberty defended.

We would be safe in peaceful countries. And in return for that, we would pay tax and we would submit to certain otherwise, you know, onerous restrictions on you can't do anything you've got to be agreed to be policed by consent and so on and so on and and that that's okay so there's now a social contract there's a quid pro quo there for people there's a reason for people to to to comply because there's something in it for them. Liberty, aspiration, hope, all of that being protected by legislation and a constitution and all of that. The gamble that's being taken now is that all of that is being taken away.

Everything that the people, all of the inducements to be law-abiding, peaceful citizens is being taken away. And what do I get in return? Nothing. You're going to get a digital ID. You're going to get central bank digital currencies. You're going to live in 15-minute cities. We'll tell you what to eat. Your currency will be programmable. So we'll have complete moment-to-moment in real-time control of everything you do, everything you want to do. Now, that's a heck of a gamble for a very narrow group of people to take with billions of people. Because there's nothing in it for the people. There's nothing in it for them. And I think they have fumbled the ball I think that's where there's

hope because not 50% not 51% of the people have realized that and would do anything about it but history shows that it never it never requires it only takes 5% or 10% of people to cotton on and do something about it and make the difference. And I think that in the final moves towards this kind of neo-feudalism, they have exposed themselves. They've gone galloping towards the finishing line too early, in the wrong way, and too many people have seen it. And I think in there somewhere is hope, and it's probably enough hope i wonder though i mean it does seem two things it seems like they're pushing the population not just of your country or mine but really of most western countries right to the point of revolution like how about we give you

nothing and you shut up and take it yeah And erase all hope for a future for your children or grandchildren, even having children or grandchildren. It's quite a gamble to take. But the gamble is that the technology is evolving so quickly that it'll allow them to harness the surveillance state and various tools of violence that are so overwhelming that there's nothing the population can do anything, could do about it. You know, drones and AI are going to be enough to sort of force people to accept this. That's how I read it. It's possible. Yes, of course it's possible. But I think it's incumbent upon us to be

optimistic that that's not what happens. You i think there's an absolute there's an absolute obligation it's beyond a right it's it's an absolute obligation to be positive i struggle with it i mean i agree i have to be yanked back onto the path of righteousness by trudy all the time because she is by inclination more positive than i am uh but but nonetheless you know i i go to i lean to the dark side all the time Well Scots have dark souls don't they? Yes we are, it's never difficult to tell the difference between a Scotsman

and a ray of sunshine as the saying goes but you have to when we spoke earlier about being brought to terms with being made to confront what really matters, and it is difficult to talk about it in many ways, it almost makes a person

blush because of the things that you find yourself having to say, but the constitution of the United States, the first amendment, it's at times like this that these things are suddenly, a light comes on inside them and suddenly everyone sees them as though for the first time. It's only because they're being threatened that people see them. You know, and the very, you know, the language, you know, the inalienable right is so important important. You know this, you get this at school, but inalienable is to say that your freedom is not, you're born with it. It's there, it's from God. It certainly isn't given to you by any person, and it can't be taken from you by any person. But the third and most important bit about inalienable, I only really began to contemplate in recent years, is that even if you

want to surrender your freedom, you can't because it's inalienable. You are lumbered with it. You're stuck with it. It's like your leg. It's part of you, your freedom. And it's when it's challenged in this way, and it's under freedom, and people talk about freedoms as though it's plural. There's only freedom. It's a single thing. And because it's inalienable, it's at the moment when it's being threatened

that people, none of us has any, we have an obligation to defend it. You don't get the choice. If someone offers you slavery, will you be my slave? You can't. Because it's your inalienable right to be free, you can't surrender to slavery. It's not your thing to give away.

And that's why some of this, I suppose, had to happen. People need to see the freedom of speech being taken away by hate crime legislation, hate speech legislation or whatever. They need these things to happen before you look again at what freedom is, what democracy might be, what it is to have inalienable rights you know and it we can't we don't have the option to give these things up even even if we're broken and we want to and these are i think these are profound verities what's the tipping point what's the point at which you won't have optimism what's the point at which never you can't good well good well you can't because that's what i mean as i said because you're you're not it's not you're not allowed you're not entitled to give up because it's in the nature of inalienable rights that you even if unto death you know they can you know we'll get, you may take our lives, but you'll never take our freedom.

You know, the oft quoted line from Braveheart, and that is just it. So there's nothing to be pessimistic about essentially, because the option to give up is not there. You don't get to give it up. Do you think that totalitarians will win on a no, no, they won't because, because I believe I also think a lot nowadays about natural law you know i read about common law which has become an obsession uh and i read about natural law and whether you're religious or not if you let's say you just if you accept an intelligent

universe and then natural law says that the intelligent universe does want the best for you, unlike our regimes and our establishments and our powers that be, the universe is there for you to be the best expression of yourself and consciousness that there can be. And all of that can be subverted by evil. A bit like if you can hold a ball under the surface of water

for as long as you've got the strength to do it, but the ball wants to be somewhere else because that's in the natural order of things. And eventually the totalitarians will run out of the strength to subvert the way that things are supposed to be. And it's difficult to put a timeline on these things. I wouldn't say that we're going to see the end of it in our lifetimes, you and me, and it might be for our children to see the end of it but it will end and the because the natural

law will reassert itself i didn't i didn't another of the things i was sort of sleepy about in a state of slumber about i didn't really think about faith i've always been a person of faith quietly. I don't go to church, but I believe in a transcendent, intelligent entity. And I think that was brought home to me and the light came on in it for me during this time as well, because so many people wrote to me. Thousands of people wrote to me from all over the world this game started where people one one woman wrote a letter to me and addressed it to Neil Oliver near Stirling Castle Stirling Scotland and the letter came to me and I thought that's impressive the postman managed to get that to me and I put a picture of it on social media and without thinking and it opened floodgates and now I've had picture of it on social media and without thinking, and it opened floodgates.

And now I've had thousands of letters like these. And so people were writing to me without knowing my address. And the vast majority of the letters were about, this is a fight between good and evil. This is a fight between right and wrong. This is about light and dark. It was as fundamental as that for most of those people that were writing to me and perversely you know in an upside-down way it was but it was becoming aware of evil in the world around me that made me think there will be what's the opposite of evil there must be good there must be good because

I see the evil and every you know every force has its equal and opposite yes so there must be good there must be God or there must be because I've seen the alternative I've seen the adversary because it's it's it's stalking the land at the moment the badness is visible and that was you know that's part of the the profound realignment that i've been going through or it really is just an awakening i mean that's a that's a hackneyed term now but being awakened do you see it happening to others around you yes yes absolutely more and more more and more people are saying it and it doesn't you know and differences are never made by the majority. Not really. That's not how it works.

You know, the crucial thing is invariably done by the one or just a few people who are right. You know, sometimes you'll be sitting at a dinner table with friends and family and whatever, and you say something and the whole place just breaks up. A great, perfect line. You just say something and everyone laughs. And if you think often, most often, you didn't even think of the line.

You didn't compose it. It was just there and you said it. And everyone laughs because what you said, it's not just funny, it's also true, right? People can instantly, true runs through people, you know, like lightning through a lightning conductor. It just, oh, it runs through you and you feel it. And I think that's what's happened for a lot of people. A lot of people are able to identify very readily with what's wrong here, which is simply an inversion of natural law, that evil is trying to assert itself.

Freedom is being taken from people from whom it cannot be taken, but with the ending of those people themselves. These fundamentals are happening, and I do genuinely hand on heart thinking of people think that don't just think it they know it because it's true it's it's true and people feel it it's a I think you're what you're saying is absolutely right true things are that they resonate there's like a tuning fork inside you that starts to hum when you hear something that you know to be true it almost doesn't need to be explained so when you hear

it you know it but I think there's a step from that experience to using the word God in public in the in the secular West are you hearing that more yeah definitely definitely and and I feel good about it and and I think a part of why I feel good about it is because it's coming at me in various shades. You know, I'm being, you know, people of Christian and Islamic faith are talking to me. inter alia they mention they talk about everything but they talk about faith and good and evil and i hear within the within the christian community i hear from catholic and protestant and and they're all saying the same thing because the the the only important bits of any of those messages are the same anyway uh and they're all they're all uh again it's the truth so it's it's uh it's striking it's chiming with me it's i can you know i can feel it because it's evidently true and so i don't i don't have any i don't have any qualm about invoking god because you know i'm pretty sure i've caught

sight of the devil it's so interesting, not everything, but a lot of things that I thought 20 years ago were completely ridiculous. Now I was utterly wrong. And one of them, we were told for so long that Muslims are your enemy. And I want to say I'm not a Muslim and I'm completely opposed to mass migration, period. I don't care of anybody. I'm just against it. But it hasn't turned out that way. And I have to say, you, Galloway, of course, Russell Brand, it feels like the people who hate you the most in the UK are educated white liberals. And it feels like a lot of Muslim immigrants are open to what you're saying and agree with you. That's my impression as a foreigner do you feel yes yes i because i you know i think it's often it's much more important just to see a person

first why of course you know i know you know that but that's that's the thing and so i don't i don't always think about this information is coming at me from a christian or from a muslim well in our country i mean it's a different experience but after 9-11 and i'm not again i'm not muslim not going to become muslim i don't agree with islam but we were told again and again and everybody in the world i lived in seemed to agree with it that muslims is islam that's our enemy i don't know if you had that experience in the uk we definitely had that here and it's just interesting but again that's that's all part of that uh divide conquer. You're absolutely right. I just did not perceive that at the time.

I mean, well, you've made me think about it. You know, you spent years in Washington, D.C. Only 35, not a big deal. So, I mean, I hold my hand up and say I absolutely, I grew up with absolute certainty that America were the good guys. I watched the West Wing, almost all of it. And I thought that, you know, as long as there's Democrats in the West Wing, you know, the white-hatted cowboys are out there making sure everything's going to be all right. Good God, God help me.

You know, I went, oh, Jed Bartlett. Whoa, fantastic. And now I think, oh, how, why did I ever, why did I ever think that? Now you were in the belly of the beast. What is it, what is it with these people? You know, these people that, you know, I'm not going to, why name any names?

You know, these people that have gone in skinny and come out fat with money, with lobbying and goodness and insider trading and all of the rest of it. So they've got more money than Croesus. And they're still there in their dotage, still at it. What drives it? What makes these jibby-ass jibby ghouls get out of their beds anymore? I didn't grow up worrying about money and just being as honest as I can be.

So I never really thought of money as a huge motivator in people's behavior because it never was for me. What's motivating these people? Clearly money is part of it. I was just late to that understanding. You know, we all have blind spots and failures and that was definitely one of mine. I just didn't, I didn't see how corrupt it was because I couldn't imagine, like I would never say something I don't believe

for money. I just would never do that. It would never even occur to me to do that. So I didn't grow up like that. So the idea that other people were saying things they knew to be untrue for money, that, like, I never, I was shocked. It took me decades to figure out what was going on. And you would hear people say, oh, it's all about the money. And I'd be like, that's bullshit. It's not, you know, we just have different views, different ideologies, different worldviews. No, a lot of it was just about the money. And I just did not perceive that.

But how much money can a multi-multi-millionaire have? Well, I agree. I mean, I've never been that. Well, that is absolutely right. First of all, you know, getting out of debt, I do think is a massive blessing. And if you can get out of debt, I do think, is a massive blessing. And if you can get out of debt, it just means you're not controlled. And there is an inherent freedom in that.

And debt is slavery. We love debt in the United States. We have a debt-based society, lending money and interest. That's the main thing that we do in the United States. I think it's disgusting. I've always thought that. So if you can get out of that, it's clearly liberation. But beyond that, is it going to make you happy?

No. I mean, I've just lived around rich people my whole life, so I know that that does not make you happy. So if we accept that money is part of it, it must be more than that. Of course. What is the, because, you know, one does end up with fewer and fewer options when it comes to explaining what's going on. And it just feels like, you know, it does begin to feel as if it's in the service of some kind of darkness. That's what it feels like. Well, I mean, it is.

It is in the service of darkness. There's no kind of rational explanation for transgenderism. You know, that's just you're sterilizing kids. There's no upside that could ever justify that. You're doing it for killing people, as, you know, the U.S. government has. I hate to say it as a patriotic American, but it's been a force for killing for a long time. What is that? And again, there's only a spiritual answer, I think, to that question.

I don't see a rational one for sure, but I also think it's recognizable in a temporal framework as hubris. It's the belief that you are God, that you have greater powers than any man actually possesses, greater foresight, greater wisdom, greater power. And that is like the oldest trap there is. Like that is the story of history is people, you know, convincing themselves that they're more than human. And that's how you destroy yourself in the society that you lead, for sure. And so what happens, has the American Republic fallen? Well, the Republic is long gone. I mean, the second you allow an intel agency to murder your democratically elected president, as we did 62 years ago, and then sort of ignore that it happened to be like, I don't think that's really what happened. Shut up. No, it's not. If you allow unelected bureaucrats to murder the guy that the majority elected, like just by definition, the system is not what they say it is, obviously. So, but I do think, I agree with you 100%, and I agree with our, you know, long-departed President Dwight Eisenhower that it really was the Second World War, in ways that I don't understand, but it's demonstrable, changed the nature of the country, changed the relationship between the population and its government.

Can I just ask you a question that I always think about, but UK specific question? So 1914, the UK, England, Britain, whatever we're calling it, is running the world. And doing, I would say, a pretty good job, not perfect job, pretty good job, putting in railways and spreading Christianity and being kind of pompous, but basically being a fairly benign colonial power as colonial powers go. There's a war, four years, the smartest people in the country are all killed for no obvious reason. The country's really weakened by that war. The United States becomes a preeminent power in the world by 1919. So it's a huge loss for Great Britain. I would say the First World War, again, for no real reason. 20 years later, your leaders tell you, got to do it again. For reasons that are clearly fake,

liberate Poland and then hand it to Stalin. That's not the reason, obviously. Democracy is not the reason. And then the country is really like wrecked and the empire collapses and it becomes sad. Is there bitterness about that? Like, why wouldn't that be the bitterest thing that ever happened in the history of your country? Are people still, do they talk about that? They brought us into two wars that just destroyed us.

All these cool things that we had, this great society that we had, we made the... I think there is a i think there is a a a lingering sadness but what about anger like your leaders did that there's no reason to join either war well the people the people obviously in my lifetime your lifetime the veterans of the first world war they're all gone oh of course you know and the veterans of the second world war you know the endangered species that they are. They are almost all on the way out. And once the people to whom it happened are gone,

then that takes something with them. We're only angry with what happened at one remove in a sense because the people who really suffered it are gone. But I hear what you're saying. I was born 25 years after the war ended. It's so obvious. You could say that Britain only became a second rate power after Suez, you know, which wasn't

until 56. So you could say that we were for whatever had happened to us, courtesy of the First World War and then the Second World War it was that it was that shit show ensues and that

humiliation by America that Britain became a city, only then Yeah, but it was dead I would say I think, you do make me think about something that's not game i said only then so yeah but it was dead i was dead after you know i would say it's much i think you do make me think about something that's not unconnected i do think that what's happening at the moment we will not understand what has actually happened here maybe in 50 years

time people look back maybe in a hundred years time in the same way that i would say you know someone who went through the first world war even if they were experiencing it even if they were in the western front or whatever with the bullets flying and seeing all of the of the horror of it you couldn't couldn't possibly conceptualize the impact and the consequences and the significance and the way in which you don't living you don't live through a period and know that you might suspect that the world might be changed forever as a result of the period that you're living through. But to actually predict what will be the real consequences in 10, in 50 years time is beyond all of us. I think it of why people won't waken up to this at the moment and won't confront it is because it's so big, what's happening. I think it is going to be like a First World War. Of course. You know, someone said that the First World War was a set of iron railings between the past and everything else because you could see the past, but you could never reach it again.

And I think, but that wouldn't have been a pardon right at the time. That wouldn't have been a pardon, even as the men were dying. It was not. I mean, my wife's great-grandfather, whose picture is right over there, wrote a book about it, his service in France.

And I've read it. Pretty great book. And it's the most cheerful book ever written. Sort of like he was a successful guy in the United States and went over there to fight for something. He didn't understand what he was fighting for and he was in good mood the whole time i think at some point at some point again in the same time frame that we're talking about second world war thereafter i think the world fell finally into the grip of the banks it fell

finally into the grip of those unelected unaccountountable, for-profit groups for whom everything was only about money, money and power. And for them, they became anywheres at that point. They didn't care about Britain, they didn't care about America. They just cared about money You know and I think That has been I think we lost In that slow Motion consequence

Of the 20th century Or the first half of the 20th century That All of What had been before That kind of love of country That kind of love of country, that kind of patriotism, that kind of identity, I think that was unmoored, unhitched at that point. And something very large

and slow moving just began to drift like a great liner that, you know, was no longer on its safe anchorage. And it's just, and it's only, and it's only now that with our kind of 20, 2020 vision of hindsight, that we're able to look back and see that that happened. This episode is brought to you by DAZN. For the first time ever,

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Let's hurry then! To my count! One, two, one, two, one, two... Visit Specsavers.ca for details. When was the last time Britain had a leader who believed the country was more important than the banks? Well, you probably have to go back to pre-1694 and the establishment of the Bank of England. I mean, that's when the Bank of England was set up and that became the model for the Fed in 1913 and, you know, the creature of Jekyll Island.

I think, but then where do you start? You know, the city of London was established by, you know, at the time of William the Conqueror. Of course. And there's a state within a state that's like the Vatican. It's a separate entity. People don't fully appreciate the extent to which the city of London is not Britain. It's a separate, it's a separate, it's a police force. The monarch has to seek permission to enter the city of London.

There's a nominated person in Parliament, the City Remembrancer, who most people don't notice, who's there all the time to make sure that the unique rights of the City of London are maintained and not compromised by any subsequent legislation. You know, so there's been a long period of that. So to get back to a time before the banks had thrall, you'd have to be before the banks were given the bank of england was given that magical power to create fiat money that's when all the you know that that's when the troubles do you know about the bradbury pound that's a no the great story well you know about you know the uh what do you call it the um abe lincoln had constitutional

script the greenbacks. Yes. During the Civil War, obviously, to get himself out of a financial hole. Well, the Bradbury Pound came about in 1914 because there was a run on the banks. War was declared and people panic. And people are going to the banks with their bits of paper,

their big bank notes i promised to pay the bearer on demand the sum of five pounds ten pounds and in those days you could actually get that transformed into gold you'd you could get the commensurate the the you know the relevant bit of gold it was transferable had value and and so the banks had a run on now they they closed the banks but there was an extended bank holiday. The bank went scuttling to the Treasury. David Lloyd George was the person they sought out. The Treasury, the government, must have had an inkling that it was happening because within three days legislation was rushed through parliament so they

must have had something kind of ready to go and they created treasury notes and the first lord of the treasury was a man called i think it's john bradbury bradbury anyway and he put his signature was on these notes and they became their nickname was the brbury Pounds and so the banks reopened the people were still queuing up wanting to transfer their bank bank notes into gold they were persuaded to take these treasury notes instead and people said well what what's the value of these and they were they were debt free and interest free and they were underwritten by the the notional value of britain the everything that britain was or is its creativity its people its labor force its industry everything that's what underwrote the bradbury pound and for whatever reason people accepted it okay i'll

take these bradbury pounds i'll take these treasury notes, not bank notes, treasury notes, interest-free, debt-free. And that saved the day. The run on the bank was averted. Now, almost at once, the banks said or realised, we can't have this. This is debt-free, interest-free mode of exchange. What's in it for us? And so very quickly they went back to the government, said withdraw these Bradbury pounds, let's go back to the old days, we'll buy government bonds, we'll give you banknotes, we'll call it three percent. Three percent interest sound fair?

The Bradbury pounds were, I think the last one actually didn't come out of circulation until maybe in the late, many years later, I can't remember exactly think the last one actually didn't come out of circulation until maybe in the late, many years later. I can't remember exactly when the last one came out of circulation. Britain's national debt in 1914, before the war, was about 650 million pounds. By 1918, it was 7.5 billion. Because the bankers had regained control but for a moment for a moment with the advent of this

debt free, interest free, treasury note underwritten by the notional or real value of Britain there was a currency went out into general circulation that could have changed everything. Imagine if people, imagine if the banks had been disempowered because they didn't have the power of debt.

They didn't have the power of usury, interest, whatever you want to call it. But they realised we're not having this. So having been got out of the hole of the run on the gold, the Bradbury pounds were taken away. Nobody noticed there's a war on and the national debt, that began its cycling upwards.

Could crypto be a Bradbury Pound? Well, I get, I host, I seek to host conversations about Bitcoin and crypto from time to time, I'll make no bones about it. I'm not really sure that I properly, I'm an expert in a position to say whether I think it's the freedom of humanity or not. I hear very strong voices on either side. People say it's a Ponzi scheme and a con and don't go near it. Other people say, no, this is the foundation upon which we will rebuild society. And somewhere between those two polar extremes must lie the truth. I think there are elements about it. Distributed ledger, blockchain. I think somewhere within there, there are profound solutions

because I have asked and had a vague yes whether or not you could use the blockchain protocol to have say a news channel that couldn't be shut down because it's peer-to-peer you know the currency exchange with bitcoin is peer-to-peer person-to-person without the interest without the intercedence of a bank and hypothetically they say yes you could you could you could distribute information you could you could transact bitcoin essentially is a transaction of information so therefore you could hypothetically you could exchange news you could in that way and the people couldn't the baddies couldn't get at it hypothetically so the the cryptocurrency or Bitcoin and blockchain interests me for that reason.

And although I listen to very strong voices saying, don't go anywhere near Bitcoin, it's been hacked, the banks have got control of it and so on and so on. I think somewhere within that thinking, there might be some of the answer answer how long till you get pulled off the air oh oh i don't know i mean i i do genuinely when when if you're living in a country that is trying to criminalize conversations at your dinner table between you and your kids send you to prison for seven years for having the wrong opinions. I think it's a bold, not me, I mean, I'm a small fry in these things, but I'm a minnow swimming in these waters. But nonetheless, these are bold moves because I think the people that are seeking the control with everything, with digital currency, with digital IDs, with all of it, are cowardly,

frightened people. I think we're dealing with, I think we have created an ecosystem that has enabled to thrive the most frightened, psychopathic, parasitic, cacistocratic leadership the world has yet seen. We have created the conditions for them and it's we've got to take responsibility for the fact that they are our fault you know you get the government you deserve that's true and so we have we can't wash our hands of it nonetheless i think they're scared very very very frightened people and they're what they're most frightened of is everyone else they're probably frightened of each other. And I think there's a line that do they want to, do they have the, will they cross it and do the wet work that would be

required? They're operating at one remove from really hurting people physically, really going the lengths of throwing people into, you know know gulags and concentration camps they're not there yet and you know are they are they ready do they have the backbone to actually start not so much people like me but you know but bigger fish are they really going to do that i don't know if they've really got it in them if as long as people well if they're proposing jail time for people who criticize them, that suggests they do have it in them. Let's see what actually happens.

I think some of it is brinkmanship, and I'm not persuaded that they've got the cojones to be the authoritarians that they fantasize about being. Well, I mean, it depends on circumstance, right? I mean, once the virus, intentionally or not, got out of the lab in Wuhan, the COVID virus, then they moved immediately to institute totalitarian rule. That will happen again.

They're still doing gain-of-function research, as you well know. But don't you think, though... And there'll be a real virus that escapes. I don't think i don't think so i'm not sure there ever was anything i don't think that i'm not persuaded that there ever was anything novel called covid i'm not covid came and influenza vanished that's a bit really now all the people that would traditionally tends that in their tens or hundreds of thousands every winter would die of the flu yes nobody's dying of flu you know what this is now covid that's kind of convenient so i'm not i'm not entirely sure there was anything new there was no pandemic you know the average age of death was 82 83 which is beyond life expectancy um you know you look at the stats

the official government starts for a country like germany uh in in 19 and 20 2019 2020 hospital bed occupancy was an all-time low there was nothing clinically observable that would have given any clinician any cause for alarm in terms of we're dealing with something here people are dropping like flies it simply wasn't you have a lot of friends who died of covid no i don't know anyone who died of covid what do you mean you don't know anyone i don't know anyone who died of COVID. What do you mean you don't know anyone? I don't know anyone directly. Millions and millions and millions of people died.

No one connected to me. None of my people died of COVID. But I know plenty of people have died subsequently of heart attacks or stroke or all the other things that happened once.

Do you know anyone who knows anyone who's died of COVID? Well, I must do. I must do. I can't think of anyone. But I do not know anyone who died of COVID. It's kind of crazy if you think about it. It's like, I must do. I must do. I can't think of anyone off it, but I do not know anyone who died of COVID. It's kind of crazy if you think about it. It's like, I don't know.

I don't know that. I'm not persuaded that there was anything new circulating.'t dying in large numbers before well not not before the rollout of the jabs but in 2019 2020 there was nothing there was nothing to see here what we ended up with was a pandemic of testing with the misapplication of pcr tests that were never designed according to their designer to be used as diagnostic tools. They're forensic, they're not diagnostic. Everything about it was hinky. The whole thing was obviously, they simply took an opportunity to do something that they were planning to do anyway, which was to use a pandemic to seize control of people's freedom and their money. The biggest transfer of wealth in history. Job done done all of that was achieved but i what if we had a pandemic of anything it was a pandemic of propaganda a pandemic of lies and a pandemic

of testing that that's it well it is pretty remarkable that for a pandemic that supposedly killed 10 million people or whatever the number they're assigning you don't know anyone who died from it only people who died from the vax that is absolutely true in my case too and in fact i don't know anyone who knows anyone who died of it i possibly don't either i just couldn't quite as confident but that's pretty i mean we're both in our 50s sort of know a lot of people you don't know anybody who died of covid i i know a number of people who died or were injured from the fact so um but at some point i mean the spanish flu was real millions people died well including relatives of ours let's let's revisit that i mean the lies down lies in statistics i

mean numbers are always problematic yes when i was at school when i was at school and i i studied history at school uh i remember being told that stalin said four million Russians, Soviet, had died conquering Germany, beating Germany. It's now routinely quoted as 20. So the numbers just, whatever the numbers are, they go up. And so likewise with the Spanish flu, now I read sometimes that maybe 200, maybe more 200 million people died of Spanish flu. But the number keeps going up with the passage of time. And there's quite, there are grounds for thinking that what people died of was aspirin overdose. Because aspirin was very new at the time of the Spanish flu pandemic.

And the doctors or the medical establishment, they kind of knew they had their hands on a useful drug, but they hadn't worked out the dosage. They didn't know how best to administer it and at what level. And people were literally eating handfuls of aspirin. Seriously? They were taking handfuls of aspirin. And people, when they were dying of Spanish flu,

their symptoms are not what you would expect from flu, influenza. People had bloody froth at their noses, at their mouths, bluing of the lips, which is symptomatic of oxygen starvation. But those are symptoms of aspirin overdose. Aspirin overdose will cause your blood to have less oxygen in it, hence the the bluing of lips and then the damage to lungs Are you listening to this Trudy? And then the damage to lungs will create this frothing. Now, people were dying of, well people were dying, but this far out from 1914-1918 and given the complication of the misuse on a colossal scale of us and it's

interesting the parallel doctors were encouraged to push aspirin on their patients you know and they were and they were in league with government and and physicians were all working together with big pharma to push aspirin as the wonder cure as the wonder treatment and as the wonder treatment. And you've got, well, you end up with many, many dead. Like I say, that lies down, lies in statistics. It's hard to know how many people died. Certainly now, but a lot of people died. But then sometimes a lot of people die with an influenza. But the way that things got out of control,

you've got this complicating factor of people eating fistfuls of aspirin. And it was cheap. People could get their hands on it. So it's hard to know if people were dying of influenza or if they were dying of aspirin overdose. That's an amazing story. So the Spanish flu pandemic is always quoted as the pandemic. That's happened before. It'll happen again.

Well, let's revisit. Let's find out. Let's have a clearer-eyed view of exactly what did happen. So knowing that and turning down the vax and successfully fending off the attempts to inject your kids with whatever that was, mRNA vax, how wary are you of taking any drugs? What's your most powerful adjective, Tucker? I worry about, you know, I lie in bed and I think, what would I do if I was injured and I needed a blood transfusion or if or if i needed um injections of whatever how confident would i be of what was in the injections i could be being told one thing and and the reality being another and it might not even be the fault or the or the or the action

of the person administering it right that's right what exactly is in that vial oh well it said i worry about i worry about exactly, because clearly the AstraZeneca product, which was not an mRNA, adenoviral, yadda yadda, different. That's been thrown under the bus.

But the mRNA products are still there. Pfizer, Moderna. And we know that my government have invested hugely in mrna technology this is going to be the platform for you know for the future of all sorts pharmaceuticals uh you know included so i'm very very anxious about what's going to be out there and if i as i say if i I required, as I'm sure I will, between now and popping my clogs,

I'll need medical intervention. And I would be anxious. And I tell you, I've travelled extensively, as have you, and in the years before, I've had everything going. And I've had bad reactions to things. I remember being really very unwell after my yellow fever me too i was and i you know typhoid yeah no to the point where i thought god i was away i was away from home when the effects of it started hitting me i thought oh my god i'm not sure i'm gonna be able to work this is dire so i've had

you know i've had my stories to tell about but i've had everything i've had japanese encephalitis jabs and hep this and hep that you name it i was an enthusiastic you know well yeah you show up at the doctor before heading to africa or wherever and they give you a whole list of shots i thought vaccination was the was the way to go and then of course they were only able to apply these products by changing the definition of vaccine so the the mRNA technology specifically is... I don't want that anywhere near me. Well, of course not.

But one of the things when the conspiracy theorists started talking about these drugs, you know, really at the end of 2020, early 2021, they said, well, they could breach the blood-brain barrier and they could change people permanently. They're gene therapies. Exactly. That used to be, you weren't allowed to say that.

I was putting that in monologues and having it taken out, but now I can say it because it is. Because it's literally true, and they admit that it is gene therapy, mRNA. Imagine if they had gone out to the general population in 2020 and said, we've got an experimental product. It will have some sort of effect on your dna but we can't honestly tell you how much if any uh it's not safe because previously pharmaceutical would never by their own by their own industry standards they would not have applied the word

safe to cream that you put on a baby's bottom for nappy rash that's right you can't call it safe so that's a dangerous word safe uh effective no they knew going out that it wouldn't stop transmission because they hadn't tested to see it would stop transmission so the whole safe and effective and take this not for you but to make sure you don't kill loved ones was a lie that was that was lie after lie after lie and and it was only we know all this it was only released under emergency use authorization probably involving the the dod rather than big pharma in any meaningful sense they knew going in that there would be an adverse reaction for every 800 doses of every 100thth dose would see an adverse reaction.

They've got pages and pages of what the adverse reactions were going to be that Pfizer tried to bury for 75 years, but, you know, wasn't able to do. We were lied to and lied to and lied to. Well, the question is why? It was almost, people were almost being thrown in jail for knowing and saying that it was lies.

Well, in Australia, they were. But the question is why? And you sort of wonder like if does it change your dna do you notice a difference in people who took it well we'll find out because the biggest the biggest test is the biggest human test in history has been carried out it's longitudinal that's right we're waiting for the results now but what what do you think? What's your instinct? You were right before. Well, I listened very early on to the likes of the German Thai doctor

Sucharath Bhaktadhyay, I think his name. And he was, he frightened the living daylights out of me three, four years ago. And he was saying then, anyone applying RNAna anyone putting a product like this into people is taking part in the biggest crime against humanity in the history of humanity and and for the sake of your honor for the sake of your family name

you must walk away from having anything to do with applying this product to anyone you must because if you if you if you do this you will be taking part in the biggest crime against humanity i was thinking my god who is this guy but it was something very he was a credentialed serious clinician research you know scientist person thought why would he why would he be saying these things? He must have reasons for saying these things. And so he was very early on saying, this is gene therapy. This could change the DNA of the cells in people's bodies. And we already think we're seeing that happening. Well, human behavior changed after the inoculation campaign.

I mean, it did change. Human behavior changed. People started living differently. Their attitudes changed. Do you think people have been modified already? Yes, I do. I have no evidence for that other than what I see. Specifically, how is it manifesting?

I think people seem much more compliant, actually. And I think they seem broken. Now, how to disaggregate all the different factors is beyond my capability. I'm not God. I don't know. But being locked indoors for a year, bereft of human contact. And there are lots of different factors. Drinking and drug use went way up.

Screen time went way up. But there's no denying that people changed the way they lived and their attitudes really changed. And if you have a drug that could potentially change people's DNA, and I think there's evidence that it can, I mean, it can, why wouldn't you see changes in behavior? Well, again, I say I would simply wait and see. I would just, we'll see.

We will see. But when it comes to why people- That's the biggest thing that's ever happened in human history. It's the biggest thing that's ever happened in human history. It's the biggest thing that's ever happened in human history. It would be the biggest crime against humanity. And in terms of changed behavior, I think you also... Yes, I believe, I absolutely accept that we may well be seeing genetic change. But people, that part of our conversation earlier,

that thing about a test, a sorting of people in a fairly binary uh choice to to find out that you were that you got the biggest test of humanity wrong the big the big one here's the one you don't know it's coming but it turned out that that was the test. And to know that you, or to suspect, I'm pretty sure I called that wrong. I did that, and people have seen that in themselves, and that's a lot to live with. You know, if you, I don't know, let's say you're lying in your bed at night, family asleep, mum and dad, three, four kids, and the smoke alarm goes off. And as Dad, you suddenly find yourself standing out in the street, having fled the house. Before you even had time to think, you realise that your instinct, it turns out it's a false alarm anyway. There's nothing to worry about.

But nonetheless, imagine if, how would, and then you go back into the house dad you didn't come for us you ran out into the street and we were still in the house with the smoke that's the kind of analogy i would draw so yes people may maybe the rna component of what happened would alter people but i think people are altered by self-realization which is a pretty powerful drug i completely agree with that and by the way in a society that literally sends women to war to defend us i mean it's like so degraded at this point the concept of honor is sort of missing um i mean the male survivors of the titanic live with shame uh of course you know you're a man how did you survive that like women drowned and you're you lived like really uh but i think we've lost touch with a lot of that but that is a feature of of

nature of the natural law that you referred to earlier and so it's real whether we acknowledge it or not and i you know guys who are raped in prison are referred to as bitches you know what i mean there's something once you submit or allow yourself to be treated as something less than human it it changes you and of course being forced to take a drug into your body whose effects you don't know that you don't want is an act of of true submit it is like getting it is it's profound i mean we know it is profound you know you know freud and the archetypes and and the and the hero journey i mean all these things that we know about that are the basis for so much of our understanding of the human psyche,

that every man, every person, let's say, but every man is supposed to go down into the belly of the beast and in pursuit of the lost father and rescued, much like Pinocchio does in The Whale, goes and gets Geppetto back out and becomes a real boy. You know, that's the hero journey. And we know what we're supposed to do,

that in order to justify our three score and ten in this incarnated moment in time, we should go on the hero journey and emerge as fathers in our own right, able to fulfil that role. We know that's the hero journey and it's right there, woven into us, it's in the DNA. And to have had your shot and not not going into the belly of the beast in pursuit of you know you're taking up your role you've emasculated a lot of the population so whether or not the genetics have been altered which they may have been that kind of self-realization is a damned hard bullet to chew so does it strike you that what you the way that you

think about people um is influenced by freud and by people who think about human behavior in non-chemical terms and in moral spiritual terms that whole way of thinking has kind of disappeared i mean that was a feature of our childhoods where people would say well you have unresolved issues guilt whatever you didn't live up to your own standards. You take that with you. Now it's like you've got a chemical imbalance. Like we can't even, I don't think young people can even analyze human behavior in those terms. I think it's part and parcel of an anti-human agenda. Yes. That what has been done fundamentally is anti-human and it's being done to people who see no inherent, they don't know what it means to be human and alive and therefore they can be casual and contemptuous of people

in a count of billions because they have got away from the sovereign human being. That's right. And what it means. You know, we've barely floated a dugout canoe onto the Pacific Ocean of the unknown as the human consciousness. But we've already got the transhumanists, not the transgender, the transhumanists, not the transgender, the transhumanists, who are already of the biological human is partly over. But that's a product of the wrong kind of people not even asking what it means to be human and alive. Right. Well, it's a rebellion against God too. I mean, if, you know,

as Christians certainly, but I think Muslims and Jews also, certainly Jews do, believe that human beings were created in God's image. You know, to deface that image is to attack God, right? And so to declare people inherently inadequate, you know, that's a theological concept, I think. It's bound up with many, as I say, it's going to be a hundred years or more, but you know, obviously you're like in 1968, Paul Ehrlich wrote The Population Ball. And at the same time, actually, Garrett Hardin wrote The Tragedy of the Commons. And they both speculated about the basic crapness and rubbishness of people in large numbers. You know, they'll just make a mess of everything. And it was that return of that Neo-Malthusian approach to people. There's too

many of them and they're not worth having anyway. So this is going to be the ending of us. And the predictions of Ehrlich and so on were wrong. You got it completely wrong. And I talk to people, I interview people all the time who are saying, and you'll be across this, that birth rates are plummeting across the West. It's not just in the West. Japan is poised to disappear in 100 years. There won't be any Japanese people. That's right. So it's not even a Western phenomenon.

Swathes of populations are not producing enough people to keep themselves going. It's true in Britain and France all across Europe it's true in America it's really bad in America people are having like 1.4 1.5 children on average which is not enough to sustain you know and so and people are not appreciating that they are sitting in the in the cheap seats on a plane that is in a tailspin that may not may not be possible even if you could get to the controls to pull the plane back into level flight. It may have gone beyond that point. And so you've got that information out there at the same time as people like Bill Gates and others are saying, we've got to check the

human population. We've got too many people. And in a hundred years time, there's not going to be anybody here. Well, I'm using hyperbole, but populations are in steep decline. And the explanations for it are existential. It has to do with maybe possibly falling fertility. And God knows what we've done to fertility with these products that we've jammed into several billion people. We'll see what the fertility consequences of all that are in due course. I think we know. i think we know i think we know but but in any event there's also people delaying having children and then when you know so many women when they when they do reach a point where they do want to have

children they're now in maybe their mid-30s their late 30s the the relevant partner is not there at the right time and so they they miss that So there's all sorts of existential reasons, societal reasons for the plummeting. But they got to work at a consulting firm in the ensuing years, that's not enough. But what I'm saying is that we know this and yet the Malthusians are still out there banging the drum for fewer people.

They can't get rid of people fast enough. They can't quickly enough deter people from having more people. Isn't that genocide? Like, isn't that what that is? Yeah. It's anti-species. And again, it's coming down to people, I think, who are not properly invested in the future. And they're certainly not invested in the future of humankind.

They're not giving their last future of humankind they're not they're not they're not giving their they're not giving their their their last measure of devotion but there's a gut level hate so we there's a football player you probably haven't followed this but in the united states kicker who gave us a college commencement speech the other day and in it he said i did trudy and i watched it this morning oh by chance we watched it online now you're deeply steeped in the politics of the united states but then you saw how moderate it was he's like you know as you grow older you might want to like have kids because that's a source of enduring joy and all these politicians and cultural figures and

i can't remember that chick's name but taylor swift some sort of fake entertainer like gets out there and you know denounces the guy as as a neanderthal and as evil because he suggests that having children may be more rewarding than your stupid career like what is that impulse like why would you be mad at someone for encouraging young people to have children like that's very weird to me i was listening to i was listening to jordan peterson years ago i mean i'm not claiming that as a badge of honor and just a fact i was listening way before everything was happening at the moment i came across him years and years ago i think it was courtesy of you know the the joe rogan experience he was part of that the intellectual dark web remember the sam harris uh brett and heather brett weinstein heather haying and and jordan Jordan Peterson and so on. And I remember being really very profoundly struck

by a lot of the things that Peterson had to say about children and parenthood. And for example, I really remember him saying that, you know, so many people say they don't want to have a baby because it's going to interfere with their lifestyle. And he said, I really have to ask, what kind of lifestyle is it that you can't take a baby with you? And I thought, yeah, because we, Trudy and I,

from we had our first and then we've got three, they always came with us. They just were there. Then there were two of them and now there are three of them and they just went everywhere. We just, it didn't impinge on anything. And obviously it goes without saying that it made our lives by inexpressible orders of magnitude richer. And yet, you know, the abiding message out there is that, oh, no, there's better things to do than be families.

That's anti-human at the basal level. Well, so then I want to ask you just finally about one of the great trends in the West, and it is only in the West, is the climate hysteria. How do you assess that? That seems part of this larger whole. It's a hoax. It's a hoax in what sense? Well, it's multifaceted. The climate is changing because that's what the climate does.

Yep. Like weather, you know, the climate changes. We did have glaciers at one point. Yeah. When they started measuring temperature, we were just coming out of the Little Ice Age. Yes. Which had lasted for hundreds of years.

And temperatures were as low on planet Earth as they'd been for thousands of years at that point. So when it comes to measuring temperature, there was only really one way for unless we were going to go extinct or go straight into another full ice age there was only one way for the temperatures to go which was up and so the fact that there has been sustained increase in temperature well it would be because it was coming from the bottom of the well the only way was up. Also, it used to be accepted fact that increasing carbon dioxide follows a rise in temperature. It doesn't cause it. Right. As the world gets warmer, there's a kind of a several hundred year lag. And then there's more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere as a consequence of that warming.

And so to tell people that carbon dioxide is causing the increase in temperature would be like seeing a horse and cart on a road from space and imagining that the cart was pushing the horse because you could see it moving. That would be how wrong you are. It's the horse pulling the car. And likewise, CO2, there's more of it once the planet's warmer. By I think it's 800 years is the lag. So there are all sorts of reasons for being aware that this way in which people are being frightened into thinking that there's a catastrophic apocalypse coming because they've got gas central heating and they drive fossil fuel cars is a hoax there's a big complicated picture to do with the the the climate changing it used to be called uh in the 70s i remember the documentary with leonard nimoy very well talking about you know we were getting into an ice age that was just the 70s

and then it became global warming but then because that isn't holding up, it's become climate change. Well, yeah, of course climate changes. And then in any event, what's being done in response to it is not green and it's anti-human. You know, as advocates of fossil fuels say, if we are, if we are, let's say we are going into a time of of climate uncertainty and instability that would be the very time you wouldn't want to do away with the ability to cheaply and readily heat homes or air condition them that would be true as appropriate i mean if if something's going to happen this would be the you know you do not throw away your matches you know at the time when you might need to light a fire. And also the wind turbines

that now are at the end of their life cycle and they're just being landfilled. These vast, unrecyclable plastic things are just being buried in the ground. They're being made in any event using fossil fuels. They can't be recycled. Electric cars, that's just a means to get people out of their cars and back onto, I don't know, horses or Shanks' pony or whatever.

So it's not green, what is being done. The planet, we're making a mess. Look what happens in the extraction of the lithiums and other rare earth metals that are required for electric batteries. Look at the child slavery that that entails. Look at the scarification of the planet that's involved in the extraction of those things. The destruction of ecosystems and habitats in pursuit of green energy. Really? Seriously? And the one clean green energy that is available, which is nuclear,

is strictly verboten because, well, because we've been told that you can't have nuclear energy. So in Europe, you've seen a spate of climate cultists destroying medieval art. It's never modern art. It's always Christian art, I've noticed. But they've gone into museums and spray painted or slashed paintings. I don't think you've seen any vandalism of private planes at all. So if you believe in the kind of schematic, if you believe in the story of climate change as an existential threat, you know, the first thing you would do is get rid of private air travel. But that doesn't occur to anybody?

I don't understand. Like, what is that? What are we watching? Well, you've got that bizarre situation where the rich at the World Economic Forum in Davos and other places are openly saying that because of carbon credits, us rich people will buy the carbon credits of poor people that can't afford to go on holiday anyway, and that will offset our private jets and private yachts. You're not using your carbon credits anyway because you can barely afford to feed yourself or your family so you're definitely not going on holiday this year so i'll i'll i'll take i'll

take your credit your carbon credits off your hand and i'll i'll use that to legitimize my the perpetuation of my luxurious lifestyle you know the hypocrisy of it the rubbing of people's noses in it is off the scale and again it's anti-human if if for one of the kind of farming techniques and the and the and the fertilizers that we have there's very good reason for thinking that half the world's population will starve to death for one of the kind of fertilizers that are made from oil you know so they just stop oil so we're going gonna see famines i don't think there's any doubt about that soon and when that happens what you know will people blame each other as they've been instructed to do or will they finally figure out that this is all manufactured i think again being

being being absolutely being an inalienable responsibility to be positive i would have to answer yes to that question that more more people do well I can say for one I see it now and I didn't used to so I've added to the count by one and Trudy sees it and she didn't used to so that's two and our kids do so that's five you know so just in my immediate circle I'm seeing people wakening up on a very personal level. So yes, I do think that enough people are seeing the way in which we are being played, we are being an attempt, a galactic scale attempt to pull the wool over our eyes

is going on, and more and more people are seeing it, and they're seeing that people are being uprooted from their homelands and have been for generations, and they are turning up where they, you know, maybe oughtn't to be. And instead of people, you know, pausing for a moment to think, why is this disruption happening? They just get angry with the victims of it. And I'm not saying, I'm not,

I mean, I'm sure there are, I'm sure there are bad lads and, and, and criminals and absolutely the sort of people of whatever creed and color that you wouldn't want in your communities. I do, I see, I get that.

Absolutely. But they wouldn't be here if governments and NGOs hadn't brought them here. But the bigger picture is, I mean, look at the, you know, they're building a bridge in the Darien Gap to make it easier for the NGOs and the WHO and the UN and the rest of them to drive people into the United States from the South. If you can, as I say,

I'm seeing it and more and more people are seeing it. And all it really takes is for people to realise that the trouble is not beside you, it's above you. And it's not a big group. And actually their techniques are old, worn out, and transparent from overuse. And there's nothing to fear but the fear they sow, I would say. I can't believe that I am more pessimistic than a Scot. Well, you've probably got Scottish genes. I do.

But that's a zero-sum game, Tucker. You can't. You've got to be. It's like taking your castor oil. It's like taking your... You've got to be optimistic because it's your obligation. It's nothing less than your obligation to force yourself to be optimistic you can't you cannot go to the to the dark side until it's all over in which case it won't matter anyway but I don't think I don't think so

Neil Oliver thank you on that I appreciate it it. Thank you, Tucker Carlson. Thanks for listening to Tucker Carlson Show. If you enjoyed it, you can go to TuckerCarlson.com to see everything that we have made. The complete library.