The Tucker Carlson Show - Tucker Confronts Mike Huckabee on America’s Toxic Relationship With Israel

Episode Date: February 20, 2026

The Mike Huckabee interview, and the truth about America’s deeply unhealthy relationship with Israel. (00:00) Why We Were Interrogated in Israel (25:38) Why Did Huckabee Meet With American Traitor Jonathan Pollard? (40:26) Why Are There Still Classified Epstein Files? (1:17:45) Who Has a Right to the Land of Israel? (2:03:50) Is Huckabee Okay With Israel Providing Free Abortions? (2:12:30) How Many Americans Support War With Iran? Paid partnerships with: Masa Chips: Get 25% off with code TUCKER at https://masachips.com/tucker Paleovalley: Use code TUCKER & get 20% off your first order at https://paleovalley.com Hallow prayer app: Get 3 months free at https://Hallow.com/Tucker Brooklyn Bedding: Get 30% off sitewide with promo code TUCKER at https://brooklynbedding.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We're about to play you an interview we did with U.S. Ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee, two days ago in Israel. In general, it's never worth talking about the backstory behind an interview. It's kind of not the point. It makes it about the interviewer, not the person being interviewed. For one thing, for another, it's not that interesting most of the time. And for another, it's kind of off the record. You know, the other person hasn't consented to you telling the story.

story. So in general, we don't do that. Who'd want to hear that? Let the interview speak for itself. But in this case, we want to tell you just a few things about how this interview came about because they are pretty interesting, revealing, and now weirdly relevant, apparently. So this interview with Mike Hockabee came about a couple of weeks ago on Twitter. One of our producers showed me. He said something to the effect of, you're talking to Middle Eastern Christians, Tucker Carlson. Maybe you should talk to me. why don't you come do an interview? And I paused for a minute.

I thought in the past about trying to interview Mike Huckabee, whom I've known for over 30 years and worked adjacent to at Fox. And I had mixed feelings about it, mostly because it's hard if you're me to interview Mike Huckabee because of just the personal affect. Mike Huckabee is jovial, comes off as friendly, he's a grandfather. When annoyed, I can be nasty in interviews.

And so it takes a lot of self-control. to interview someone like Mike Huckabee, not because I hate him, but because it's hard to ask him tough questions and not come off as a jerk, which I often am. But I thought in this case, yeah, I should definitely do this for a bunch of different reasons. Mainly, the United States is moving toward a big war, a real war with Iran, a regime-change war. The biggest war we've had since the invasion of Iraq in the spring of 2003, and Israel is driving that. doing this at the behest, at the demand of the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. So it seems like now is the time for more Americans to understand the dynamic between the U.S.

and Israel and to call attention to that. And for another, Huckabee's behavior in the last year in Jerusalem as the ambassador has been very, very striking. He famously had a meeting with the most damaging spy in American history. And why did he do that? He hadn't been asked by anybody up until two days ago. Why did you do that? So I wanted to be able to ask him that.

And so we accepted and then began the usual negotiations about when and where the interview would take place. And we were constrained because we weren't expecting this. We wanted to do it quickly. But we had tons of travel. So we threw them a date, them being the American embassy. We can do it on this date. And they were very accommodating. And then the question became, well, where do we do it?

maybe a Christian holy site. We said, we've got to get in and out really quick, got to be back to do a bunch of other interviews, but we've got this time frame. They said, well, why don't you do it at the U.S. embassy? Or maybe we set that great U.S. Embassy. So the U.S. Embassy is about an hour, 55 minutes from the big airport in Israel, Ben-Gurian. So we said, okay, what about security?

Now, at this time, the Israeli government, the prime minister included, were attacking me in this show. Netanyahu suggested I was a Nazi, for example. And so we thought, you know, how about security? Obviously. Not because the Israeli government necessarily would do something bad, because there are a lot of people in Israel who think, because they've been told, you know, that I'm an anti-Semite or a Nazi or want to kill Jews.

This kind of crazy overstatement, all untrue, obviously, but it would be good to have security. And I should say, having done interviews on six out of seven continents over 35 years. I'm not very security conscious at all. Never really feel uncomfortable with this seem like a prudent thing to do. So we were told by the embassy spokesman, no, we're not going to provide security. And so we said, okay, I guess we'll get private security.

But could we get someone from the embassy to ride in the car with us from the airport to the interview? And we were told, no, could we get what they call a control officer, just an American with us, in an official capacity as a embassy employee with us. No, quote, for legal reasons, we can't do that. So I thought, well, that's very strange. And then they said, but instead, we're turning you over to the Ministry for Foreign Affairs, MFA, and they're going to arrange everything in Israel. Well, this was within 24 hours of the deputy foreign minister, Sharon Haskell,

releasing a video calling me an anti-Semite and an enemy of Israel. This was the person who the embassy was telling. us was going to handle all of our travel. So it was at this point that I just called. I called the spokesman for the U.S. embassy in Israel and I said, okay, I'm an American citizen responding to an invitation from the American ambassador to Israel. And by the way, I'm the son of U.S. ambassador, so I have some sense, not an expert, obviously, but I have some sense of how this works. And I think that the U.S. ambassador has discretion to send somebody from his office to the airport to accompany someone in. I think that's right. And if it's not right, tell me what law you're talking about,

what legal reason you're talking about that would prevent that. And now you're sending me over to a government official who's been calling me a Nazi. That's the person in charge of getting us to the embassy. Like, what is going on here? And the embassy spokesman, who's totally nice, said, well, this was the decision of someone called David Brownstein. He's the DCM, the number two guy in the embassy. And I said, well, put him on a text exchange. Like, what is going on here? And so Brownstein got on and didn't answer the question, but basically said, well, okay, let's just do the interview at the airport in the diplomatic reception area at the airport. Okay, I said, we're going to be flying in from Europe and we had to be in and out really quickly. So at great expense, we chartered a plane, which I never do because I'm cheap.

but we did. And so then I said to them, okay, I want to send you the flight information, tail number, flight number, route. And I want you to pass that on to the Israeli military just so, you know, they don't mistake us for an Iranian drone or something. I mean, not to be paranoid, but again, this is probably the most violent country in the world, Israel. Is there a country in the world where a higher percentage of the population has held a gun or shot

someone? I mean, I don't know the answer, but this is. is a country famously waging a seven front war with all of its neighbors, you know, so this is also the country that bombed the USS Liberty, knowing, we know this from NSA Intercepts, that it was an American ship. So don't, you know, just send the military our flight information and, you know, we can all just sort of know it's on the record and we can all calm down a little bit. No, they said. The U.S. Embassy said, no. This is your flight is not a matter of concern to the Israeli military.

I said, okay now. Now you're making me uncomfortable. Isn't the airspace of Israel the purview of the Israeli military? Aren't they in charge of maintaining the integrity of their airspace when you fly over the country of Israel or any country, its military, keeps track of you because that's their job? So why wouldn't you send our flight information to the Israeli military? You're making me nervous. I sent this exchange.

I took a screenshot of it and sent it to a bunch of people, including in the U.S. government, because I'm not a paranoid person and I'm not a jumpy person. I said, is this weird behavior? Yeah, it's really weird behavior. All of them said that. So I got pretty aggressive and just said, look, you got to do this. Okay. And they, to their credit, got back to us and said, yes, we will do that.

But I thought that was completely bizarre and menacing. by the way. Now, at the same time, and I think this is relevant, certainly it goes to motive, I was attempting to set up a meeting as I have been for the past three months with the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, who I've dealt with a lot in the past and who denounced me as a Nazi in public, a member of the Woke Reich. And why was I trying to do that? Not an interview. I knew he wouldn't sit for an interview, but I wanted just to meet with him in person, one to show that I'm willing to go to Israel. I don't hate Israel as a country. But two, just to say directly to him, this is bad.

This should be de-escalated. This kind of rhetoric doesn't help anybody, calling people, calling me specifically a Nazi and an anti-Semite. When you know that I'm not, by the way, if I was, I would just admit it. I've said many times I think anti-Semitism is immoral. It's against my religion. Just as hating any group on the basis of their bloodline is immoral. So the New Year is here, but that does not mean. you've got to overhaul your whole life, despite claims to the contrary. You don't have to take

drastic measures. Make a few changes here and there, and you'll be a lot better off. And you can start with the snacks in your pantry. Now, products from standard American chip brands are, let's be honest, pretty repulsive, filled with chemicals that make you feel heavy and bloated. They don't even taste that good. They're not good for you. We recommend an upgrade with Masa chips. Masta is the easiest way to eat clean without feeling like you're on a diet. The chips contain three ingredients. That's it. Organic corn, sea salt, 100% grass-fed beef towel, and that is it. No seed oils, no mystery chemicals, just food, actual food. And they're amazing, and you feel great after. You don't feel weighed down. We particularly enjoyed the Cobenero flavor lately, but they're all

great. You want to give them a try? Visit masa-chips.com, M-A-chips.com slash Tucker. Use the code Tucker for 25% off your first order, or you can clink the link in the video description or you can scan the QR code to claim this outstanding offer. And so I really pushed hard for this meeting and I called a lot of people who know him and who were in regular contact with him. In fact, I went to go see some of those people directly. Please, can you help me get a sit down for five minutes with Benjamin Netanyahu? And I probably called or met with six, seven, eight, maybe more people on this question.

people in official capacities, people in the Israeli government. I know I know a number of people in the Israeli government. People in Israel, a friend of mine in California who knows him. I mean, I really, really tried. And I did so for two reasons. One, because there was a threat to my family, the Israeli government. And Netanyahu himself tried to punish two members of my family. I won't be more specific, but actually punish two members of my family,

because he, as he has said in public many times, believes in blood guilt, Amalek. you know, when someone commits a crime against you, you punish not just him, but his family, his bloodline. There's no idea that's less Western than that, more anti-Christian than that. Christians reject that. Netanyahu doesn't. That's why he's talking about Amalek. And he was going after my family, literally. So I felt very threatened by that. But moreover, I think it's bad for my country to have people using that kind of language rounded. him up, bring him to the camps, gas chambers, Nazis, anti-Semitism. It scares the heck out of people. It makes people crazy and hysterical. And certainly in my case, none of that is true. I hate collective

punishment. I hate attacking people on the basis of their bloodline. I hate anti-Semitism and anti-weight racism and all of this or any kind of racism, period. And I've said that a lot. So using that kind of language against someone who is not fundamentally your enemy, who just, in my case, I want Christians. in areas controlled by Israel to be treated with dignity, to have rights, and I don't want the U.S. government involved in a war, a regime-change war with Iran. Those are my priorities, and I've said them out loud, I have no secret agenda. So to attack me as a Nazi for saying that suggests a total unwillingness to compromise. You know, anyone who doesn't agree with has 100% must be destroyed. His family must be attacked, my family, and must be written off as a Nazi. Well, when you do that,

it makes people hysterical. It increases the temperature to a point that, you know, someone's going to get hurt if you keep talking that way. And it's just bad. It's bad for the United States. It's bad for the world. So I wanted to deliver that message. I finally wound up talking to a guy called Yoram Hazzoni, who is an Israeli who famously organizes the American conservative, national conservatism conferences. And I said to him, look, you're having a national conservatism conference in Jerusalem this summer. You asked me to speak at the first, I think the first national conservatism conference in the United States. And I did, obviously, I believe in national conservatism, America first. I think every nation should put its own people first. That's why you

have governments. And I would like to speak at this one. And moreover, I would like you to ask your friend Benjamin Netanyahu to meet with me. And we had this sort of long back and forth. And it was no, you cannot speak at the National Conservatism Conference because you're an anti-Semite. No, I'm not, I said. Yes, you are, you said. And I said, well, I really would like to speak to Beebe to kind of de-escalate this. And he said, it would not be in his political interest to meet with you. It's almost verbatim what he said.

Therefore, no. So then I realized, you know, you're dealing with people who are unreasonable, who are inflexible, who are, in fact, fanatical. and then add to that, of course, that my tax dollars are paying them. It's all pretty distressing. So that was the backdrop behind our very brief

and highly intense trip to Israel. So we show up on Wednesday, flying from Europe, again at great expense, and show up at the diplomatic terminal of Bengarian Airport where this interview is going to take place, which is

bizarre in a itself, filthy building. The windows are so dirty in the terminal you can't see out them barely. There's like exposed drywall. The whole thing is depressing and grim. There's litter outside. Like, what is this? This is the diplomatic terminal in Israel. I thought that was very strange, having been in a lot of diplomatic terminals. I've never seen a ratier one. We go in and Huckabee's there, and of course he's totally friendly, as he always is. Very, very friendly guy and a cheerful and we sort of chat. and the whole place is filled with these guys in T-shirts, thuggish-looking guys in T-shirts

who are some kind of security. So we do the interview, you're about to watch it. It's very long at two and a half hours-ish, and I try my hardest to be friendly. I think I kind of succeeded. You can judge for yourself, but I really got the sense, and again, you can decide as you watch it,

that Huckabee was not, well, to answer any of the questions, but also not really in charge. He really got the feeling of a guy sort of trying his best to repeat the talking points, but very constrained, like unable to say certain things, not because those things might harm the interest of the U.S. government. He was happy to attack, for example, the U.S. military and say they're more brutal than the Israeli military, okay, but unwilling to say certain things because they might reflect poorly on the Israeli government. and you sort of thinking about this for a second, you're like, wait, you're the U.S. ambassador, you're our representative to a foreign country. Why is your red line criticism of that country?

Shouldn't you be representing us? And it was very obvious he was representing the Israelis. Obvious. And again, you can judge for yourself. But anyway, so we do this interview. It was cordial. And at the end, we're set to fly out. We have a time.

We have to get out. and the plane is sitting right outside, and we're ready to go. And for some reason, the Israelis still have our passports. There are five of us there. And four of us are flying out on this. One's flying out commercial with our gear. So my business partner and I, which are standing there, we've never left the airport, never went anywhere.

But our two producers have spent the night before in Tel Aviv. And they're called into rooms and given the third degree. Now, keep in mind, they're about to get on a plane and leave. In fact, we're late. We have to get out of there. We have a slot to get out. And security, whoever this is, won't let them go. So I don't really know what's going on at this point.

I'm like, where are our guys? We've got to get out of here. So one of them comes out and he says, that was the weirdest experience in my life. They asked me questions about the interview. Who did you speak to? Keep in mind, this was like eight feet from where we did the interview. Well, the U.S. Ambassador Mike Huckabee, what did you talk about? why did you ask those questions?

Was it a hostile interview? Of course, everything in the diplomatic terminal is taped. Everything in Israel is taped. It's a police state. It's a surveillance state, obviously. You go to Israel, they put software on your phone. Everybody knows this. They're constantly spying on you more than probably any other country.

And so they know the answers these questions. But they're asking my producer, like, where do you work? How many people work there? Do you go to the office? Where is the office? What are their names? they're doing like an Intel op and humiliation exercise

on my producer. This isn't security. We're leaving. Right now. And they're holding his passport. The interrogator is holding the passport in his hand as he's asking these questions. So he's telling me this.

And I said, this is the most outrageous thing I've ever heard. Puckabee's gone by this point. You're an American citizen who's just had a conversation with the U.S. ambassador and some thug is demanding details of that conversation? And I hope you didn't answer. And he's like, no, I didn't. I don't know what to say.

Meanwhile, our last guy, the youngest man was traveling with us, our last producer, is still in a room being questioned. So I pull over one of the guys who said, we got to get out of here. So I don't know what this is about. It's outrageous. And, you know, there's nothing I can do about this point, but we got to go.

And this woman goes up to me and says, look, let's just go. We're going to bring you to the plane and he'll come later. I said, no, it's my producer. He's being interrogated, asked totally over the top, fully inappropriate questions that have nothing to do with security at all. You know, pull up your website, show us your text exchanges with other people on your staff. What are your politics like? And again, what did you say to the U.S. ambassador and what did he say back to you?

Those are not relevant questions if you're trying to keep. keep your country secure. Those are intel questions. And they're over the top. And I said, I want this guy out now. Let's go. You know, we got to go. And they said, no, no, just leave him here. We'll bring him to the plane later. Twice they told me that. Just leave your guy behind. No, I don't think so. So I was enraged by this. Get on the plane. We get a text from a reporter who somehow knew that this had happened. I have no idea how. I had no interest in publicizing it, actually. there was, you know, a long trail that showed that the U.S. Embassy had been coordinating against us in a public relations battle before we even got there. You know, they were leaking that we demanded to do it at the airport because we were afraid to go into Israel.

We're cowards. Okay. We're cowards. Right. And so I just said to the reporter by text, you know, that. They pulled my guys into a room interrogating them. This is outrageous, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The interesting thing is I never heard from Huckabee or anybody to this moment from the U.S. embassy about what security did to my producers.

They didn't ask us. And instead Huckabee went out and called me a liar. So it raises, again, the question, who exactly is Huckabee working for? we're American citizens in a foreign country. He's our ambassador. He represents our country. We pay his salary, but he's taking the side of the foreign government without even calling to say, hey, what happened to you at the airport?

Did you get hassled? Did your guys get hassled? No. He just immediately repeats their lies without even consulting us. So, like, what are we looking at here? We're looking at the reality, which is, if you're an American, in Israel, you can be certain that your government will take the side of the Israeli government and not your side. And really, is that so different from the experience of Americans in the United States?

Can you be sure that your government will take your side over the Israeli government? No, of course not. They will always take the Israeli government's side over yours. And that's the core problem. even if you support a war with Iran. I think really the most pressing issue for Americans is that we kill the Ayatollah or whatever. You still have a fair expectation that your government because it is yours. You pay for it. It exists to serve you and for no other reason. You have an expectation that your government will take your side against a foreign government.

But the daily lived reality, the obvious truth, visible to every. single American is that's the opposite of reality. In fact, if you criticize Israel in your country, your government will work to censor you. If there's a standoff between you and BB, you know whose side your government's going to take. Bibi's side. That is not sustainable. That is too humiliating. It's too clearly an inversion of the natural order. Your government exist for you, not for a foreign government. But that's not how we live in this country or in Israel. So that's what we learned.

And one last thing, the Israelis apparently went, may probably probably with the help of Mike Huckabee, went to the surveillance tape inside the diplomatic terminal and pulled some clip, of course, getting all their little bots online to promote it of me with my arm around somebody to show that actually I'm lying about what happened. That person was our driver who drove us from the plane to the terminal, a short drive. Very nice guy, good guy, Israeli guy. And right when we arrived and he said, could I get a picture? Of course.

He was a nice man. So I just put my arm around him and took a picture. That's what that is. That was before the interview. It was before our producers were hassled by the thugs and asked, ridiculous questions before any of this happened. So that's just another installment in the propaganda war. I thought we'd give you the backstory on that.

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paleoValley.com and use the code Tucker for checkout. 20% off your first order if you do that. That's paleovalley.com code tucker for 20% off. So with that, here is our interview with Ambassador Mike Huckabee. I hope it's informative. Ambassador, thank you very much for having us for inviting me. I was grateful to be invited. Well, thank you. I was grateful because I don't like all the name calling.

I've engaged in some of it. I want to apologize for that. But in general, I don't think people should be going immediately demotive calling each other Nazis or anti-Semites. I said I hate the Christian Zionists. I lost control on myself. Of course, I don't. I've apologized for that. I have problems with my anger,

and so I just want to apologize to you, since you are Christian Zionist. You and I've known each other for over 30 years. Over 30 years. That is totally true. Back when you were in Little Rock. Yes. It's why I wanted us to have a conversation,

talk to each other and not about each other. And I appreciate very much you're coming here to have a message. Of course, and I'm only saying a couple hours, unfortunately, because I kind of shoehorned this in, but I hope that I'll be back soon. and I hope that I can come back soon because I want to I actually like despite what you may hear I actually like the country I've been here a lot and There are a lot of things I love about it and and I want to talk to people in it for like a week Good and get a better sense of it

So I want to ask you everyone I've talked to in Preparation for this has said the same thing Jonathan Pollard? I'm just gonna show the name to you and have you explained no I'm glad you ask you know of course Interestingly, there's been a lot of things about it. You're the first person who has asked me about it, which I find amazing. So I'm glad you did. Really? Yeah, the very first person.

Good. Well, it's better to, like, hear it. Sure. I met Jonathan Pollard two times. Once I was making a speech in Jerusalem. This has been a few years ago. His wife was still alive at the time. And he was there.

And someone introduced me to him and his wife. I said hello to them. That was it. Hi. Nice to meet Esther. wife and that was it. I went and made my speech and I left. Later, his wife passed away here in Israel and I sent him a note and just said, I'm sorry to hear about your wife. I remember meeting her at the hotel and sorry to hear it. He then asked, could he come and see me? He wanted to come and thank me

for being kind to him. He came to the embassy. I think we met for maybe 30 minutes. We had a nice, pleasant visit. The funny thing was the New York Times reported that it was a secret meeting. Tucker, if you've ever been to the U.S. Embassy, you would know there's no such thing as a secret meeting at the U.S. Embassy. There are cameras everywhere. You walk through Marines. You walk through security. You walk through the front office and there's a dozen or more people that are going to check you out when you come. And before you get there, you're going to have to give us your passport information. You're going to have to be vetted and screened and all of this stuff. So the idea that it was secret was ludicrous.

The whole idea is, look, Jonathan Pollard did something that was terribly wrong. He sold secrets. He shouldn't have done it. He was sentenced to 30 years in prison and spent 30. Actually, I think, yeah, I think he was sentenced to maybe more than 30 years, but he spent 30 years in prison. Most people convicted of something similar, which was one count, I believe, would have spent two to four, but he spent 30. I don't have a problem with him spending 30 because I think what he did was despicable.

I'm not defending anything about what he did. But even people like the former director of the CIA, a number of other senators on the Senate Foreign Relations of the Senate Intel Committee said that he should be allowed to leave and move to Israel if he wanted to. So it to me was not as big a deal that I had this basically courtesy meeting. He wanted to thank me for being nice to him when his wife died. That's pretty much the... You advocated for his release when you ran for... I remember it in 2011, long before he had served 30 years. And I agree with you that there are a lot of people languishing in prison, you know, in our country and in this country, many countries, you know, for longer periods than they deserve.

And I think it's a Christian impulse to want to see them free. But this was the greatest traitor in modern American history who sold our battle plans sold our battle plans against the Soviet Union, our main enemy in the Cold War, to the Israeli government, which according to our Reagan CIA director, Bill Casey, then gave them to the Soviet Union. So this was the most profound betrayal of the United States in my lifetime. why advocate for that guy's release before he serves his full sentence?

If that were the case in 2011, it would have been because I had a number of friends. It suggested that he had more than served time, and he didn't want to live in the U.S. anymore. He wanted to live in Israel. But my association with him, again, I had never met him until I met him in Jerusalem at a hotel. That was the first time I had ever encountered him. I'm friends with a million bad people where I've talked. to a million bad people. I'm sitting here with you.

I mean, come on. I mean, she's the same with tax collectors. So I, trust me, I am, do not judge people who are friends or know or enjoy the company of immoral people because it's not an endorsement of their immoral behavior. Pollard is different, I think once you become U.S. ambassador, the representative of the President of the United States and the United States of America in a foreign country, and then you invite not only the most damaged betrayer in our lifetimes, but also a guy who continues to advocate for betrayal. So he gave an interview, as I know you know, in 2021 to Israeli media in which he said,

I would encourage Jewish Americans with security clearances to spy from Assad against their own country of the United States because, and I'm pretty much quoting him, all Jews should have dual loyalty. That's a, I mean, that's not repentance. That's not someone who feels bad about what he did. That's someone who's encouraging American Jews to betray their country. That's pretty heavy, don't you think? Oh, I do.

And I disagree with that wholeheartedly. I think let's remember it was President Trump who probably facilitated his departure. And I'm certainly supportive of President Trump. I think you are. Poller's not. He called him a madman after your meeting. That's why I say. Pollard is not, for me, the real issue.

It was the fact that he did. something that was despicable. I'm not denying that. Of course he did. And he paid dearly for it 30 years in prison and he should have. That's what he should have done. No question about that. But why meet with him in the U.S. Embassy? Your colleagues said they were shocked. They said, who were the colleagues that said they were shocked? Quoted on background in the New York Times. I think the meeting was in August. This could all be fake. That's why I'm asking you. Well, the same New York Times said it was a secret meeting. And I'm telling you there's no such thing as a secret meeting in the U.S. Embassy.

why the U.S. ambassador hosting a convicted betrayer of his own country who's encouraging Americans to continue to betray their country would seem shocking. Well, I would say that it wasn't that I, you make it sound like I'm hosting a meeting. I simply met with him. I meet with people all the time. You can just walk in without a... No, they have to have an appointment. Of course they do. Oh, so it is hosting him that, I think. Well, I don't know if it was hosting, but it was certainly he was able to come to the U.S. Embassy to have a meeting at his request.

I did. And frankly, I don't regret it. I met with a lot of people over the course of the time I've been here and we'll meet with a lot more. That's it. So if you spend the evening at my house, you are guaranteed to find yourself in a conversation about the Hallow app. We talked about it this morning. It is the best prayer app ever. This lent Hallow's Pray 40 challenge invites users to step out of the noise of everyday life and dive into something much deeper, the parable of the prodigal sun. It's a story about a man who leaves home, waste everything, hits rock bottom, and then realizes something transformative. He can go back. And when he does go back, he's not punished, he's welcomed, he's celebrated. That story tells the truth that no matter how

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and dozens of sex offenders, accused sex offenders from the United States who fled to Israel, including one recently an Israeli government official who was caught trying to molest a 15-year-old girl and fled to Israel and is not going back to the United States to stand charges for attempted molestation of a child. Have you advocated for the Israeli government to return him to the United States?

I'm not familiar with that case. It has not come to us at the embassy. So I'm not aware. Is this the person in the United States? Nevada. That is correct. Okay, I heard about it. I would imagine so. Yeah, I heard about it, but I heard about it through open source media. It was never something that was presented to us, but I would have no problem with him being extradited back to the U.S. You're the presidents and our country's representative in the state of Israel, so I think it would

fall to you to advocate with your friend, the prime minister, to say, wait a second, we have a very close relationship. We're obviously the single largest source of outside funding for this country. How can you? take an accused child molester and shield him from American justice, send him back to the United States. Have you ever had that conversation? No, because the prime minister would not be the proper person in Israel. Pardon my ignorance. That would deal with an extradition. It would go through their court system. And so the prime minister is separate, very similar to what we have in the U.S., where there is a separation of powers. So it would go through something other than the prime

minister. Have you advocated to the courts, to judges, to anybody in the Israeli justice system? There has never been a request for me to engage in that. I would be happy to do it. If the White House sent a message to me, I do work for the president, I serve it as pleasure. If anyone at the White House were to say to me, would you please go and make a case for it? But probably, if that were to happen, it wouldn't come through the embassy as much as it would likely come from the Department of Justice at the U.S. in D.C., they would. make the request. They might involve us, but they very likely would not. Does it seem strange to you that people accused of child molestation in the United States

are allowed to have refuge within the borders of our closest ally? How that doesn't make sense to me? Well, I would say that if you've molested an American child, shouldn't be required to be a justice. It's an allegation. Let's be clear. One of the things about our system of jurisprudence, you're innocent until you're proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. So if the charges are there, should he be extradited? I would say so. The charges are there. Yeah, okay, so they should be. But that's a Justice Department decision, and they're the ones who should be pursuing it. To my knowledge, they haven't. They certainly haven't engaged the U.S. Embassy over. Why would the Israeli government harbor fugitives from justice in the United States?

I'm not sure that... There are dozens and dozens and dozens. In fact, there's an Israeli group that keeps track of them that is dedicated, Jewish-Israeli group dedicated to combating the molestation of children and keeps a long list. And then you can look it up and I wouldn't. Tucker, I hope you're not saying that you think the Israelis support the molestation of children. Obviously, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the Israeli government allows shields.

Yeah. Accused child molesters from justice in the United States. I'm not sure I could say that that's something that is provable. I don't know. But I am not aware that the Israeli government is shielding people. You obviously want to sleep well and fashionably. Brooklyn bedding can help. Here, TCN, we take sleep time seriously.

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Use the promo code Tucker at checkout to get 30% off sitewide. It's not available anywhere else only in the show. So take advantage while you can. Visit Brooklynbetting.com promo code Tucker. Well, they are, and I'll give you a, and I just want to make sure that I pronounce this man's name correctly. It's Tom, I believe, Alexandrovich. I think that's right, and I've written it down, but of course my hand ring is so terrible I can't read it. But yes, he is an Israeli, I believe, cyber security official who was at a conference in Las Vegas last year and was caught up in a sting designed to catch people soliciting sex from children.

He was one of a number of people arrested for this. He was arraigned and charged. And then two days later, he fled to Israel and did his first hearing by Zoom. He was allowed for some reason to leave for a foreign country, having already been charged. for a attempted molestation of a child, and he remains here now. And there have been many news stories about this, and I just wonder if you would ask the Israeli government to put him on a plane and send him back to face justice for attempting to molest an American child. It doesn't seem complicated.

No, I wouldn't mind doing that, but I want to find out if the Justice Department in the U.S. has already sought to extradite him. Is there anything in process? I don't know. Why wouldn't they seek to extradite it? I have no idea. That's a question for the Justice Department. I have many questions for the Justice Department. Like, why are millions of Epstein files still classified? Why do you think that is?

I have no idea. I haven't kept up with that. I've never met the man. I don't know him. You haven't kept up with the Epstein disclosure? I mean, only from a distance. I'm 6,000 miles away from D.C. these days. And I'm pretty sure that there's so much going on.

The current president of Israel, current president, who I know you know, President Herzog. Going very well. Apparently, was at Petto Island. That's what it says in the disclosures. And, of course, we know that the former Prime Minister, Ahud Barak, was living on and off at Epstein's house. So still living, high-level Israeli officials are directly implicated in Epstein's life, if not his crime.

So I would think that you'd be following this. Only, I was not aware that there was any connection with President Herzlach. I would be surprised to hear that. And I knew there was about... the former prime minister, who apparently had a lot of dealings with Epstein. Business dealings, and by the way, I'm not alleging anything, but, I mean, it's, yes, in the Epstein files, and I don't know that I've heard the current President of Israel respond to it, but he is listed as a visitor to Petto Island. So that's kind of a big deal. I wonder, considering there are so many suggestions in the files, as I'm sure you know, of sexual abuse,

and given that Jeffrey Epstein was a convicted sex offender, I wonder why the administration you work for would be holding millions of files, which I believe belonged to the public, hidden for, quote, national security reasons. What would those national security reasons be, do you think? Honestly, I think you've probably got more access to the White House sometimes than I do.

You should ask them. But you're the government official representing that White House. In Israel. And I represent the U.S. in Israel. to the Israeli government from the U.S. government, but honestly, nobody has presented that to us. We have a pretty dynamic situation here. I don't know if you know that or not, but there's a lot going on in this part of the world. And frankly, that has not been top line item.

But you're surprised to hear that the current president of Israel, whom you know, is listed as a visitor to Petto Island. Had never heard that. Never heard it even in the Israeli press. Are you going to ask him next time you see him? I'll be happy to. Talk to him almost every week. week. I guess what I'm asking is not simply as a representative of my government or a high U.S. official, but just as like a man and a father and a Christian. How could you resist saying, like, were you on Petto Island with Jeffrey Epstein? Well, if I'm not aware of it. And secondly, there are a lot of things that go on in the world. I don't question every single person about

every single thing that may be alleged. He's the president of the country. I understand all that. But this is the first I've ever heard of this. So why do you expect me to have, knowledge of something like that. Well, because you attacked me personally for suggesting that Jeffrey Epstein had ties to Mossad and you said that. You think he does? What's very clear he does from the finals. You think he does? Where do you get that? Well, the fact that he was in contact repeatedly with members of the Israeli government, including the current president and the former prime minister and all kinds of Israeli intel-connected people, I'm not saying he worked for Assad. I don't think we know that. But there's no question that he had extensive contact with CIA.

I think you said it at a turning point event. Everybody knows Jeffrey Epstein. I said everyone thinks. And it turns that everyone was right that he did have. I'm not sure everyone was right or everyone thinks. Okay, but you said that I was lying. And I don't want to make this about me. I don't think I said you were lying, Tucker. I don't recall. I'm just saying, why don't we release all the files and then we don't need to guess? I got no problem with that. Go ahead. Would you call a lot? Well, because you weighed in on it and said that this was not true. I said there was no evidence. Well, there's quite a bit of evidence, but you haven't apparently bothered to read any of the files.

Is that what you're saying? I have not read the Epstein files. Apparently, you have. But when you say that everybody knows that Jeffrey Epstein was a Mossadee. They said everyone believes that. I don't think everybody does. I don't know. Well, everyone knows that he had contact with.

And by the way, not just Israeli intelligence, American intelligence, which is much more distressing for me. I'm not Israeli. I'm American. I don't want my government having any contact with someone like Jeffrey Epstein. So the shame is on the United States, as far as I'm concerned, just to be totally clear about that. Everyone's very sensitive about the Israel connection, not at all sensitive about the U.S. connection, which I find very revealing. We should care about what our government does first, I think. but since you weighed in on it and said there's no evidence, I'm surprised that since that evidence has been open to the public for a month, since you've already weighed in publicly on this question,

that you've made no effort to evaluate that evidence. Why is that? I've just told you, I was certainly not aware that there were some specific allegations. I knew about the former prime minister, but I don't know him. I'm not sure I ever met him in my many times. You know, I've been to Israel over a hundred times since 1973. The first time I came here was 1973, July. And it's almost 53 years of coming and going to this country.

So I know the country well and know a lot of people here, but I don't know everything and I don't know everybody, but I do a lot of people. Of course, no. And I can see your love for it, and I think that's great. But I'm talking about the U.S. government and its responsibility. to, you know, there's a lot of complaint about conspiracy theories and everyone, you know, he's a hater.

Everyone's a signing motive. But there's a way to end these conversations very quickly with facts. And I'm highly confused by... Have you brought this up to the president? I mean, no, I don't work for him. I've said this many times in the public. But you go to the White House and you see people there. You and J.D. Vance are very good friends.

So have you brought this up to them? I have brought this up in public many times. It's not on my portfolio, but apparently it's highly, very strongly on your mind. And I'm just thinking you should do it. It's a significant concern for me. It should be for everybody. Well, there's an acute, there is a charged child molester. But I'm saying if you are very involved in the details of this and you think it's the U.S. government that's hiding and shielding somebody, then bring it up to the people that you personally know.

I don't think that. I know it because the Justice Department has said we have millions of people. of documents were not releasing. Why are they not releasing? I'm asking you as a U.S. government official what the answer might. I'm a government official at the embassy in Jerusalem that has not one thing to do with the Justice Department and what they're investigating on any given day. And I don't want to argue or talk in circles, but you were the one who brought it up

and said it's absolutely not true. I was only responding to what I've heard you say. Okay, but now that you know there's evidence and we can settle this debate, you haven't looked at the evidence, and you're not pushing for the release of the total corpus of evidence. And I'm confused because I want to believe that your goal is to get to the truth. And the fastest way to do that is by releasing the evidence, don't you think? You suggest that I can release the evidence? I'm suggesting you could call for it right now. Well, fine, call for it.

Let's have it all open. I thought it was being all opened up for everything I know. Once it's open, I hope you'll read it because it's, it's, it's really. really interesting and then it puts to rest a lot of the debate and it ends the name calling because we can say here it is right there and we don't have to call people names we can just assess the documents let me ask you but you bring it up i hope you will bring it up to people at the white house oh i've brought i've brought i'm bringing it up right now i'm bringing it up now and i'm asking i just want to say this one last time as the u.s ambassador to israel i hope that you will make a formal request

to the Israeli government to send every accused sex offender in this country back to the United States to face justice. And I don't understand why that hasn't been done. I'm confused. Well, we'll try to clear up all the confusion that we have. Well, if someone's been accused of trying to molest a child, I think it's... Then certainly, and I'll check with the Justice Department, because it is a DOJ issue, and it would be handled through DOJ, the U.S., to the court's system. in Israel. That's how it would be handled. But the first step is the Israeli government saying, yes, we will allow you to extradite this person back.

The person is being shielded by the government. That's why the person's here. That's why he fled here. So he wouldn't have to stand trial for trying to molest a child. I want to get to the, as I said at the outset, I said something awful that I regret that my wife barked at me about. I lashed out at Christian Zionists and evangelicals. And I just want to say again that I'm sorry. I've always liked them because they're pro-life and they're also really nice people. So for the third time, I'm sorry that I said that. I think part of my problem was I don't understand the theology. And you are not a fake Baptist minister.

You're an actual minister. You had a church for many years. You're an actual theologian. And I mean this with sincerity. I hear people say, those who bless Israel will be blessed. I know it's a reference to Genesis. I don't understand the connection between that concept and modern Israel and the geopolitical world. And so I'm going to stand back and ask you.

Let's first define, because for my days, there's a debater in high school and college. One of the things I knew you didn't start the debate until you defined the terms. Amen. Let's define the term. Thank you. What is a Christian Zionist? Okay. What does that mean to you?

What does it mean? I don't know. It's the people who call me a Nazi for asking me? what Israel means? I mean, that's kind of my I don't even know. But here's the point. If you say a Christian Zionist is a person who has a brain virus

and is guilty of heresy, that's a pretty big charge. I know. I shouldn't have made it. I shouldn't have made it. I made it out of anger and ignorance. So, and I'm Christian, I think we can agree as somebody who follows Jesus Christ. Exactly. Has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, believe in his death,

burial resurrection, has repented of one's sins, and if accepted him as one savior. Would that be fair? Christian. Define that. Zionist. A Zionist simply means a person who believes that the Jewish people have a right to have a homeland where they have security and safety. Did you believe that the Jews have a right to live in Israel? Do you believe the Jews have a right to live in Israel? I... That would be a Zionist. That's all a Zionist is. I have a million questions about what all of those terms mean. Yeah. But conceptually, I wish Israel no harm. I don't want to see. You want them to have a place where they could live with safety and security?

So I saw this recently in an extremely telling exchange between the lieutenant governor of Texas, who I know and I've always liked. And a woman I don't know, never met, who's on the Religious Liberty Commission or something. And she said, I'm a Catholic, but I'm not as a Zionist and they have this ferocious exchange. And he kept saying, and everyone in the panel seemed to keep saying, you have to believe in Israel's right to exist. I never kind of questioned just for the record, but it did raise two questions, I think, are really important. And I hope you'll answer them. One is, where does that right come from? I mean, it comes from, essentially, you could say it comes from the Bible. I would say that it does. But it comes also from a long iteration of historical precedents going to the United States,

to the Balfour Declaration of 1917. It comes from the League of Nations 1927. It comes from the United Nations 1947. Right. The Declaration of Independence of the Israel State in May of 1948. They were immediately attacked. They won the war. They were attacked again in 1956.

They won the war. They were attacked again in 1967 by five countries. They won the war. They were attacked again in 1973 in the Yom Kippar War. They won the war. The point is, does Israel have? have a right to exist. They also had wars in 1982 in Lebanon. They've had the defada's, two of those. They've had Lebanon again in 06. I was there. No, I'm very familiar with the modern history of the

state. Okay. Pretty familiar, I think. And I've been here. But Zionist simply means somebody who believes that Israel has a right to exist. Now, the question is, do you believe Israel has a right to exist? I guess. I mean, I want Israel to exist. Well, no, but I want to know what that means. So, like, do other countries have a right to exist? Well, they do exist. Do they have a right to exist. You keep saying Israel is a right to exist. And I want to know what other countries have a right. They have a legal right because every international body in the last 100 years has said the Jewish people have a right to their indigenous homeland. So that's a legal right. Do they have a biblical right? I would say that yes, but you may say they don't. I don't know. I'm actually sincerely

interested in finding out what you mean by a biblical right. But first, to the legal right, does any other country on the planet have the same right that Israel has to exist? Well, you could say, does Jordan have a right to exist when it was trans Jordan? And the Brits came and divided up the Middle East and they gave some land to Jordanians and they gave some land to the Saudis and they gave some land to various Middle Eastern countries. And it was all carved up. And the French gave Lebanon its right to exist. Do they have a right to exist? Do they? Well, why not? Okay. So that's my, so every country. Does the U.S. have a right to exist? I'm asking you. Okay. And I'm telling you, I think the U.S. has a right to exist. Okay. We came here, we came there. We're right in Israel now talking. But does the U.S. have a right to exist? Does anyone question whether we have a right to exist?

I don't, yeah, but, but I, of course, I'm for America, you know. Good for you. But I, so every current country on the map has the same right to exist that Israel has. Is that what you're saying? I think what we're saying is that when a country has established itself and it is following international law, it has been deemed by numerous bodies that it is indigenous to its homeland, as Israel is. This is its homeland. It goes back 3,800 years to the time of Abraham. It's not that the Jewish people just showed up here in 1948 and said, we're going to have some land. Hold on. So those are two different tracks that I just want to make sure that we separate them. understand each one separately. All right. So you're saying there's the modern legal framework, and so you said a country that abides by

international law has a right to exist. I would say that that is a part of its existence? Would the inverse be true that a country that does not abide by international law forfeits its right to exist? Not necessarily if it has the capacity to stay and make its case known. But there have been Jewish people in this land in this very land for 3,800 years. Okay. So, but you're saying as the modern nation state with borders and a military and a Knesset and just all the kind of trappings of a modern country, all of which I support, that country has every country on the planet has the same right as Israel to exist because it does exist. Is that what you're just, I'm just trying to understand the concept here. Well, I think what we're trying to get to is Christian Zionism, and you've taken this,

way off the road here. I don't know that I have. I don't mean to. Christian Zionism is a separate thing, but I just keep hearing people say, Zionism is the belief. That's the fundamental argument that's going on. Does Israel have a right to live in their indigenous, ancient historical land, a land that has been affirmed throughout international organizations, a land that has direct ties to the Jewish people? I just want to know if this is a universal principle. I guess that's what I'm getting at, because if it's not that it's meaningless to me because as a Christian I believe in universal principles. Something is right for everyone or it's wrong for everyone. We don't believe in special cases.

But here's the question. If the Jews didn't have this land, would the Jews have a right to any land? I don't know. I'm not attacking the Jews. I'm asking if this applies to every people and every nation. Does every nation have the same right to its own homeland, to its own physical land that you say Israel does? I feel like we're in a rabbit hole here.

No, I think it's a very straightforward question. Does that right extend to other countries other than Israel? But the most important thing that is going on in our culture right now is whether or not the people that are yelling in the streets from the river to the sea, whether that's a legitimate point of view to say that there should not be a Jewish homeland. There should not be a Jewish state. I just want to know. I know you haven't said it, but that's the argument. It's one of the arguments going on globally in the United States, excuse me, has a pretty narrow view, I would say, in our media culture, what's happening around the world.

There are plenty of countries having this debate. Stonehenge is a lot older than the first temple in Israel, and it was built by the same people who live there now. It's the same people, and they are being pushed off their island and outnumbered by people from other places. And so in Great Britain, in Ireland, which is also a country with a nation of people, a race, if you will, that is being displaced, replaced. Who are they being replaced by?

Immigrants. Okay. From other places. I just wanted to clarify because I was one of the... Well, just as a demographic matter, it's just like you can look at the numbers. It's not controversial. Just look at the numbers. There'll be a minority in their country.

And their people have been there longer than Jews have been in Israel. And so they're having this debate, too. That's all I'm saying. And lots of places are having this debate. Sure. So does that principle apply to everyone, or is it specific just... to Israel. I think it applies specifically to Israel. It applies to anyone who can prove that they have some connection to the land and connection to the history and connection to international

law. But Israel, I think, does have an extraordinary. Why do you keep bringing up international law? So if again, no, but let me finish this, sir, because here's the point. We're talking about Christian Zionism. The idea that as a Christian, I believe in both the old and the New Testament. Why wouldn't I? I'm a person of the book. There are 80 million evangelical Christians in the United States. What makes us who we are is our adherence to the scripture, our belief that the Bible, all of it, not part of it, but all of it is the word of the living God. Yeah. So if I believe in the Old and the New Testament, I do believe that there is a very specific call to the Jewish people that started with Abraham, and he called him out of what is now modern day Iraq, said,

come where I send you. He came. This is the land. Genesis 12, 3. he says, I will bless those who bless you, curse those who curse you. In Genesis 17, he looks out of the world, he says, look, and this is where I'm giving you the land. And since that time, there have been people living in this land connected to that moment of history. So there is a historical connection that is unbroken. You've said that, and I want to ask you what that means a little more specifically if that's okay. But first, let me just say that you could say, the same thing of Britons who've been there in their land longer.

Is anyone trying to tell the Britons, the Brits, they can't live there anymore? No, what's happening is... But they are saying that to the Jews. Okay, okay, but I just wonder if you would extend the same sympathy or the same principle, you don't, you seem like this is, you think I'm trying to trap you? I'm not, I'm at all trying to trap you. It'd be as simple as saying Native Britons have the same... I got no problem with the Native Brits having their land.

Having the right to their land. But my point is, I don't know that there is a biblical connection for the Brits. But I would say, take that off the table, and I think there's still a basis for the Jews having this little bitty strip of real estate. I'm not even arguing with you. I'm just trying to, at all. I'm just trying to understand what it is that you're saying, because it's not obvious to me, and maybe it's an IQ problem, but I'm having a full understanding this. But let me just go back to just clarify one thing. You've brought up international at least twice, maybe three times, as a basis for Israel's legitimacy.

if Israel was out of compliance with international law, whatever that is, would it be less legitimate? Depends on if the law and the way it's applied is legitimate. There are some applications of so-called international law that are not legitimate. I agree. Look at the ICC or the ICJ. I agree. Utterly ridiculous. One of the reasons I'm so grateful President Trump and Secretary Rubio are pushing hard trying to get rid of the ICC and the ICJ is because they have become rogue organizations that, are no longer really about an equal application of law and justice. I don't know enough about it to say if that's true or not. But I just, I'm interested that you yourself appeal to international law as a basis of Israel's legitimate. Well, what I'm looking at is the whole of the last 100 years. The Belfort Declaration is not exactly international law, but it was a letter, I think.

It was maybe not law, but it was a declaration. It was an assumption and a declaration that was done by Lord Bale. for in great britain at that time this land was under the british mandate and he said the jews should have the land that was theirs from 3800 years ago it was simple as that right and i'm not debating that i'm just yeah it was not international law it was a colonial power saying okay but then later it was international law under the league of nations under the united nations and then because of the victories that israel had against those who tried to annihilate them and it wasn't just that they were trying to take a little piece of their land. They tried to annihilate them. Okay. And there is

still to this day the shouts of from the river to the sea. And Tucker, that means only one thing. Not the shrinking of Israel, but the annihilation of Israel. I don't think, I don't think you can say that you know what it means, actually, because you don't know what's in people's hearts. So why don't we just deal with the facts? Maybe some people mean it to mean that. I know it's in their mouths. I know it's in their minds. But I'm not, look, you'll never hear me say that. What you will hear me say is I'm confused by what the definitions are. So let's go through this. You've appealed to Genesis.

Genesis 15 says it's Abram, it's pre-Abraim, it's Abraham, it's Abram, receives from God the news that his descendants will inherit the land. And you tell me as the theologian, if I'm getting this wrong, but from the Euphrates to the Nile. I think that's right. And that would include, like basically the entire Middle East. That would be the Levant, so that would be Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon. It would also be big parts of Saudi Arabia and Iraq. I'm not sure it would go that far. I mean, it would be a big piece of land, but here's the point.

It would be a lot of places that are now countries. But this particular area that we're talking about now, Israel, is a land that God gave through Abraham to a people that he chose. it was a people, a place, and a purpose. We can look at it that way. Christian Zionism, I want to go back, because that's where we started on this. I'm not going to let you off on this because you have said it three times that God gave this land to this people.

And so it is entirely fair for me with respect to ask, what land are you talking about? Because I just read Genesis 15, as I have many times. And that land, I think it says from the Nile to the Euphrates, which is, once again, basically the entire Middle East. So God gave that land to his people, the Jews, or he didn't. You're saying he did. What does that mean?

Does Israel have the right to that land? Because you're appealing to Genesis. You're saying that's the original deed. It would be fine if they took it all. But I don't think that's what we're talking about here today. What would be fine? Well, it's exactly what we're talking about today. But here's what I don't think you're...

You think it would be fine if the state of Israel took over all of Georgia? They don't want to take it over. They're not asking to take it over. But you're saying that the reason that Israel is legitimate, has this inherent right to exist, is in part because God gave it to his people. And I am going to the same Bible that you're referring to and noticing that that is a huge piece of land. So if God gave them that land, then they have a right to take it now by your definition, unless I'm missing something completely.

I think you're missing something because they're not asking to go back to take all of that, but they are asking to at least take the land that they now, occupy, they now live in, they now own legitimately, and it is a safe haven for them. May I ask though, because you're appealing, you're explaining what Christian Zionism is and your theological beliefs? And you think you just said it would be fine with you if the state of Israel took all of Georgia, all of Syria, all of Lebanon. That's really not exactly what I'm trying to say, Tucker. Is that what you said? I thought that's what you just said. It was somewhat of a hyperbolic statement in that, you know, if that's what

you feel like that we're talking about, but it isn't. We're talking about this land that Israel, the state of Israel now lives in and wants to have peace in. They're not trying to take over Jordan. They're not trying to take over Syria. They're not trying to take over Iraq or anywhere else. But they do want to protect their people. No, they're not trying to take over Lebanon. But you're saying that as a religious man, as a Christian, a Christian Zionist, you agree with, a lot of religious communities here in Israel, that the justification for this country is theological. It's a contract between God and his people.

And I'm telling you that that contract includes a tract of land that is much larger than the current nation state. So you may be a bigger Zionist than even the Jews are that live in Israel. I'm trying to understand the implications of your theology for geopolitics. Because you're saying that the present government of Israel has a moral right to take over what are now other people countries. No, I didn't say that. Then what are you saying? I'm simply saying that the people who live in Israel, I think have a right to have security, have safety. They have a right to be able

to live in this land that they have a connection to for 3800 years. I told myself when I said a prayer that I'm not getting annoyed, but is someone who is, you know, the father of daughters, when I see child molesters hiding in Israel and escaping American justice, I think I have a right to safety in my country too. So you can understand that I think most people feel they have a right to safety. I do think Israel has a right to safety, and I hope that for them. And I'm sincere, but I'm an American, and I have a right to safety in my country too. Of course you do.

And I think, but I just want to get to this point. If Israel were to say God gave us in Genesis 15 all of Lebanon, all of Syria, all the way up to Iraq, would that be legitimate in your view? I don't think in this particular day and time, they're asking for it. Would it be legitimate? I'm not sure that it would be. Why? Because you just said that God gave it to them.

Because I think that there is an understanding that the people of Israel today, now if they end up getting attacked by all these places and they win that war and they take that land, then okay, that's a whole other discussion. But you and I started out. When in a moment, we started talking about something simple, Christian Zionism. But it turns out it's not simple. Because I don't, the core of Christian Zionism, you said, and I'm quoting you, is the understanding, the belief, the theological understanding that Jews have a moral and legal, we went through the legal. And biblical.

Moral deriving from the biblical, from the promises in our Bible, which we share with the Jewish people, the first part of the Old Testament, that it derives from God's promise to the Jews. and so I have two questions. What are the borders of that? And who are those people in 2006? And you're not the first person I've asked, but you're the most reasonable, most gentle, most theologically informed person, so I'm really hoping for an answer.

The first question was the borders. I can't get an answer. Those borders are. So I'm going to give up. But the second question is every bit is pressing, which is who are the people? Who are the modern? Yes, who are the decisions?

descendant so we know, and I believe, and I agree with you as a Christian, that God promised this land from modern day Iraq to modern day Egypt to this people, the Jews, to Abrams, actually not to Abrams' descendants, as it says in Genesis 15. Who are his descendants now, and how do we know who they are? I think they're the Jews, and we know who they are because they've always been a Jewish people. There has been an unbroken line of Jewish people, and they've lived in this land for 3,800 years. Sometimes not very many of them, because they were chased out all over the world.

They were hunted down. They were almost annihilated during the Holocaust. They came back. To this day, Tucker, they represent, you know how many Jews there are in a whole world? Please. I understand. First of all, the greatest genocide of Jews,

no one ever mentions, was by the Romans, where they were literally banned from Jerusalem for 500 years. Yeah, of course. And it's all awful. And I'm opposed to all of that. I'm opposed to mass killing of anybody.

period. I'm supposed to hear you say that. I mean it. Yeah. I hope you can agree on them. I believe that. My question is, and it's not a bumper sticker answer, it's a sincere answer. How do we know? Because what you're saying is that certain people have a title to a highly contested region. They own it in some deep sense. So I think it's fair to ask, who are they, and how do we know? So the current prime minister's ancestors weren't from here within recorded history. He has no deed.

Bebe Netanyahu on one side is families from Poland. They're from Eastern Europe. So how do we know that he has a connection to the people who God promised the land to, Abrams' descendants? How do we know that? Well, if you take the genealogies that come not only from the old but the New Testament, you see that there is a historical connection

through the entirety of the old and the New Testament that details the Jewish connection to this land. Does that include Bibi's family? How do we know that if his family comes here? But how do we know it's the same people? No, why is that crazy? If you say to me... If they speak the same language, if they worship the same God,

if they follow the same Bible, if they follow the same cultures and traditions, and they always pray next year in Jerusalem, and they pray for the peace of Jerusalem, and they pray facing toward Jerusalem, does that not give you a little bit of a clue? as to who they are? Let's go through those things because I would like to have a rational, this is the conversation I've wanted. Bless you, thank you for doing this.

Let's just go through those things. Okay. So one of the things I admire most of Israel is they resurrected a dead language in 1948. Good for that. Well, they really didn't resurrect it. It was existent. Okay. I'm not, that's a compliment. I'm not slightly. No, no, no, but it is the first time in all of human history that a language has survived through this length of time. I would call it, you might not, but I would call it a miracle. One of many that you can attribute to this language.

Netanyahu's wonderful as someone who loves language. Netanyahu's parents did not speak Hebrew. They didn't live in this region. Netanyahu, the founders of this country were mostly secular. Some of them were avowed atheists. They were not praying for the peace of Jerusalem. They weren't praying at all because they didn't believe in God. There's no genealogy linking their families to

the people of this land 3,000 years ago, they're none. So how do we know, since they didn't share a language, they didn't share a religion, they had no religion whatsoever, how do we know that they had a right to come here from

Eastern Europe and take the land? They were scattered to Eastern Europe. I understand that. They were scattered all over the world. There were many in Ethiopia. They were in Russia. They were in Poland. They were throughout Asia. Jews were all over the place, but they were still Jews. They were still Jews.

Okay, so let me get to the nub of the question, since again, a lot is at stake, a lot of money is at stake. Land is very valuable. Israel has a lot of resources. By the way, if you're accused of a crime, you can hide here. That's a pretty good passport to have. It's a good thing, right? So who's entitled to it? I don't understand, and you're very discouraged in the United States from asking this question for some reason.

It's a totally rational question. No, I'm not discouraged. You're not discouraging it. Others do. You're like the only person I could have this conversation with. Everyone will be like, shut up, Nazi. It's a foundational question. Are you speaking of an ethnic group or a religious group? Well, I think you're looking at, for many people, it is religious. There are people who may not have a deep religious connection to Judaism, but they're still Jews. So it's an ethnic category. It is ethnic, but it is also religious. It is rooted in religion. You can't take it out of it. Now that means there are some people... Well, I will tell you this.

There are some people who say, I'm Christian. They never go to church. They never pray. They never read their Bible. They don't tithe. But they're not entitled to citizenship on the basis of that. They're not entitled to... They still call themselves Christian, even though they identify in that way.

Here's the difference. You're saying that people who have this identification have a deed to a huge chunk of land on the Mediterranean. Okay, so there's, you know, it's a right. You keep telling me it's a right. And so it's totally fair to say, if you come to my house and say, I've got the title to your house, I get to ask, may I see it? Where'd you get it? And that's exactly what happened here. People from Europe, Eastern Europe came here, in a lot of cases, atheists, and kicked out a lot of people who lived here. Well, but in 19. They did not just throw people out. They bought a lot of land. There's no question about that. They did buy a lot of land. But they also in 1948,

kicked out a lot of people. And the war, it was a war. I agree. Look, I'm not, look, I want to relitigate the history. I'm just saying it's a fact. Okay. Including a lot of Christians, a lot of Christians wound up fleeing, and they lost their homes, and they've never been allowed back. And all of this was justified on the basis of this identity that forms, that is the ticket to the right that you keep referring to. So my question is very simple. I'm going to wait patiently for an answer. Does this right derive from religious affiliation or from genetics. And I would say it's both.

But I would also say that when you said that Christians were kicked out, Tucker, Christianity is growing in Israel. Okay. And there is a big lie that goes out there. But no, let me finish this because I keep hearing that Christians are really not treated well in Israel. That's simply, that's a lie. Well, there are lots of different.

There were 34,000 Christians in Israel in 1948. There are 184,000 Christians here today. And by Israel, what are you counting? You're talking about the land? What territory? Are you counting Israel proper? Are you counting the West Bank as well in Gaza? I mean, when you say Israel, those numbers apply to what land mass?

It would be in Israel proper. Okay. There are 184,000. Now, I'll tell you where Christians are not doing very well, they're not doing very well in the Muslim-controlled countries. There's almost no Christians in Qatar, for example. except those who live in the Christian ghetto, who are the service workers. I'm sorry. Look, I don't want to argue with you.

There are many more Christians in Qatar than there are in Israel. That's not true. It actually is true. And I refer you to Wikipedia, Mr. Ambassador. Wikipedia. I refer you to the government of Qatar, the government of Israel. These are knowable facts. Like, and I'm in Jordan.

The numbers are down. In Syria, the numbers are down in Lebanon. The numbers are down. There are about twice as many Christians. But they live in the enclave. They are not native Qataris. Okay, we're mixing so many different categories here. I'm just saying I get things wrong all the time.

You've just gotten something wrong, and I think it's important to acknowledge it. There are many more Christians in Qatar than there are in Israel, fact. How many? Now you caught me. I don't know. I can look at my phone, but I was just there.

And there are many more, like, whatever. But I just want to get to the point that forms the basis of this whole conversation, which is who has a right to the land? Yeah. And you said it's a mixture of religion and ethnicity. because as I noted and you agree, many of the founders, maybe the majority of the founders of modern Israel,

did not believe in God at all. So they were not religious Jews. They weren't religious at all. They were atheists. They were atheists, I believe them. So that suggests it's ethnic. But it's also true, as you well know, because there's a famous court case about this,

that ethnic Jews who convert to Christianity do not have the right of return. That was settled by the Israeli Supreme Court. I'm very confused. So that would suggest it's not ethnic. because you invalidate your Jewishness by converting to Christianity? There are a number of Messianic Jews who live in Israel. Who are here.

I'm aware of that. I'm aware of that. But you're not contesting what I'm saying because it's a very famous court case. The right of return has to do with your mother, your grandmother. It has to do with family times. There is a lot of, sure, ethnicity is a big part of the right of return. Great. To make Aliye, to come to Israel.

to live here? Then if both of your parents are Jewish and you have an ethnic right to lend, you are one of Abrams' descendants, but you convert to Christianity, how is it you don't have the right to return? I'm totally confused. But I know a number of people

who have returned as Christians, but have Jewish history and Jewish ethnicity. Are you saying that Jews who convert to Christianity have a right, a legal right to return? I know that they do, whether when you say do they have a right to return do they prove it's a it's a legal category as in government which is by their family history their grandmother their mother and there are many aspects of that i've read it i think that i know that these are people who are christian and they came here

made aliah they had jewish blood jewish history they were christian messianic but they came here and they were welcomed here and they were given three legal rights. Absolutely. And a passport. So clearly, it's not true that you invalidate your right of return by converted to Christianity. That's just false. I'm not aware of that. I know that there are a number of Christians here. I go to church with Christians every week here. Of course. And there's a... But do you have a right to come and say, I am an ethnic Jew, even though I practice Christianity? Therefore, I have every bit as much right to move into a settlement in the West Bank or into East Jerusalem or anywhere I want,

Galilee anywhere, because I'm returning to the land of my forefathers of a legal right in the state of Israel, even though I've converted to Christianity. You're saying that's true? I'm saying I know people have done it. Now, can I tell you what the law specifically is? I'm not sure because I'm a Christian.

I'm not, I don't have any Jewish roots, so therefore I cannot quote you the law. If you want me to do that, I'll look at it. Well, it really matters because you're saying, in fact, people in the United States are being called anti-Semites, a lot of them, including me, because they somehow don't believe that Israel has a right to this land. Do you think Israel has a right to this land? No, you haven't defined what the land is, and you haven't defined to Israel. So I really don't know. It is the land they're living in now,

the borders that they have. The borders are moving. The borders have moved in the last year. What do you mean the borders have moved? Well, they are the 1967 borders. I'm including, you know, East Jerusalem and Judean, Samaria. What are the borders of Judea and Samaria? Well, you basically take the Jordan River, and it's west of the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, to the Lebanon border. And Israel did have control of the Sinai. They gave that to Egypt. They had control of it.

Right. No, no. It gave it away in 1979 in the peace agreement. But, okay. So whatever you call it, the land that was taken from Jordan in 1967, you call it Judean, Sumaria. There's a significance to that that I don't fully understand. I'm not against it. It's the biblical terms.

80% of the Bible happened in the Judean, Samaria. But we've also established that the Bible gives Jews the right to occupy the land from the Nile to the Euphrates. So I'm very confused by why we've shrunk the land and why we're dis- Israel has shrunk the land. they have made that decision. That's why they gave away guys. They gave away the sign. Now's the part for the real question.

Abrams' descendants are the ones who have the right to have this land, correct? Yes. Okay. Why don't we do genetic testing on everybody in the land and find out who Abrams' descendants are? It's really simple. We've cracked the human genome. We can do that. Why don't we do that?

Would you be against doing that? I have no idea what that would prove. I mean, maybe it would be. What do you mean? it would prove who Abrams' descendants are and who has a right to live here and who doesn't, according to the theology that you yourself just explained.

And so I'm very confused as to why we don't do that if you believe the theology that you've just explained to me. Would we do that all over the world? Well, this is the only country in the world that you've said has this covenant with God, that this people have a moral and legal right to the land. What about people who convert to Judaism?

Would they have a right? Well, you've just You've just said that it's not... They can make all right. They may not have DNA. You've just told me that it doesn't matter. You told me moments ago, I'm trying to keep track. Okay.

That it doesn't matter whether or not you believe in God or whether or not you practice Torah Judaism or rabbinic Judaism, which is something else that I don't even know if we should, I don't even know what that means. But it doesn't matter whether you're, quote, a religious Jew or not. not. What matters is that you are part of the Jewish people to whom God gave this land that extends from the Nile to the Euphrates. And so if you believe that, wouldn't you want to know with a burning passion who those people are? And because of science, we can now know who those people are.

So why aren't we finding out? I guess you could propose a DNA test for everybody who comes here, everybody who lives here. I'm comfortable with secular nation states where none of this is done on the basis of blood. I'm uncomfortable with that. I'll just say that. But there are people who may not have bloodlines, but who have converted to Judaism. Are they going to be able to live here? You're going to kick them out?

By your standards, they can't live here. No, no, no. You've just told me that they have a right to live here because God gave them the land because they're the descendants of Abraham. They're the sentencing of Abraham. but if they're the spiritual descendants of Abraham and they've now decided that they're converting to Judaism, then do they have a right to live in Israel? Well, there's a whole legal literature in Israel on that question. And my understanding is that certain types of modern Judaism qualify a person and other types

don't. Is that your understanding? I don't believe that people converted, and I could have this wrong. but I know people who face this person and people. I don't believe people who've converted in a reform synagogue have the right of return. I don't think that is, because I know people who've married into Jewish families

and they find out they don't have the right of return. So that is perplexing to me. Yeah, I know, you know, my experience is a little different than yours. I know people who have definite Jewish connections, family relations, but now they're Christian. Some are not necessarily practicing Jews. They're more secular Jews, as you've discussed. But they come back here.

Okay, I'm not against that. I'm just wondering, since you have, since you began this conversation by asking me, did I think they had a right to come here? Yeah, that's what my question was, on what basis do they have the right? And you said, because God granted it to them. And I also said, because there should be a land where Jews could live in peace and safety. And I asked you what a Jew was and you couldn't answer it. You said it partly is religious but doesn't have to be.

It's partly genetic but it doesn't have to be. And so that you can see why I'm confused. I think I was very clear that being Jewish is an identification either through blood or through faith that you're Jewish. It may be that you're a blood Jew, but you don't necessarily practice Judaism just like there are people who say they're Christian, but they don't do a thing to demonstrate what Christian means. There are a lot of bad Christians, including me some of the time, a lot of the time, but I don't have a right to real estate on the basis of my claim of Christian. You don't have a right to real estate if you're talking about a specific parcel.

But if you're talking about a land, I think what we're talking about is that's all I'm saying. And there was a designation to the family of nations of the world that there would be a Jewish homeland. Let's get to that point because I think you've taken us on several trails here. and I'm not sure we can follow them all. But is there a reason that the Jewish people that represent, and I want to get back to this because you didn't let me finish while ago, they represent 0.2% of the world's population. In the entirety of the world, there are about 16 million Jews total.

And 8 million of them live here. The rest live mostly in New York or South Florida and a few other places. Okay. So this is a small population of people. they have connection to this land, historically, biblically. Do they? Yes, they do. If Bebe's family, we know they lived in Eastern Europe, there's no evidence they ever lived here.

He's not religious. But in what sense is, but ancestrally, how do you know that? Do you have his family tree? No. We don't. Do you? He doesn't. So no one does.

That's the point. So how do we know that he has any connection to this land at all? And if there has been a practice of Judaism and a connection to the language, the Bible, the land. His ancestors didn't. He doesn't practice Judaism in any rigorous way. His ancestors didn't live here. They didn't speak the language, and there's no evidence they ever lived here. So on what basis does he have a right to be here?

Very much speaks the language. He has fought for the land. His family has fought for the land. I feel like you're dodging a very obvious question, which is where does this right come from? And the reason it's meaningful is because there are a lot of people in the territory that Israel controls today, particularly in the West Bank, who through genetic testing, we can know their families have been here for thousands of years. We don't know whether they practiced Judaism, whether they were Samaritans, pre-Islam. We don't know that.

A lot of them we know have been Christians for 2,000 years. They have less of a right to the land than someone whose ancestors, the only thing we know about them is they lived in Latvia or Poland. They're Eastern European. How does that work? They're Jewish. By what definition? They're Jewish by their...

But how do we know they have any connection to the faith? They're Jewish by the connection to the language. Jewish by the connection to the Torah? But how do we know that Bibi, specifically Bibi's ancestors ever lived here? How do we know that? I'm not sure if I understand your question. How do we know if the Prime Minister of Israel's ancestors ever lived? Maybe I could ask you, how do we know they didn't?

I mean, it's on the basis of the claim that they did that all kinds of things happen. People are displaced. There's a money flow. I mean, it's a big question. A lot hangs on this. It's not some theoretical thing like, oh, you know, do my grandparents do this or do that? It's like, no, no, no, we have a right to be here because my ancestors were here. Okay, how do we know they were here? I'm totally unable to process what you're trying to get at. It goes back, do Jewish people have any land on this planet that should be theirs to give them. I feel that way about all peoples. I feel that way about Jewish peoples. I feel that way about... Okay, then then you don't mind them having this little... Is there any, is there any country, let me ask you this bluntly, is there any country that European peoples have a

right to exclusively? I think they have attained their land through conquest. I mean, let's ask ourselves... Have the Britons attained their land through conquest? No, they've always been there. The Romans, the Greeks. We've had all these civilizations. Let's speak. No, no, let's speak. No, No, well, you could certainly say that here. The Romans controlled this, as you know, and they expelled all the Jews in Jerusalem. Amen. I want them to control it. I'm anti-Roman.

Okay, we're on the same page. Okay. But my question is very simple. Is there any European peoples that possesses the same right to their land that the Jews, including people whose ancestors lived in Eastern Europe, possess here? The Britons, we know, the British people, the Scandinavian people, the Irish people, their ancestors have been there for thousands years, that's provable through genetic testing. Do they have a right to their land exclusively?

Is anyone saying they don't? Yes, of course. Yes. No one will say they will, and I'm asking you, do they have that right? And I'm not sure what that question involves because no one is trying to force them out of their land, of their homes. But here, you have people... Why won't you answer that question? Because I just did. So the Irish people have the same right to their land that the Jews have to... I don't know that they have a biblical connection.

Okay. But I'm a Bible believer. Okay. So that is important to me. It's also a principle. And that is, and you've said it 15 times. Sometimes people have land because they were able to attain it through war. They were able to attain it when it was challenged.

I understand that. There's all kinds of consulate. But we can't say that about the Irish. The world borders change all the time. Not actually the borders of the island of England. England have not changed, nor the... But the governance does. Those are just two examples.

So you've got the indigenous people there. Do they have a moral right to that as their homeland? And I think they would probably say, yes, we do, because we have ancient history to it. What do you think? I've never thought about whether they... Now that I'm raising the question and you've spent a lot of time thinking about the right of the Jewish people to their homeland, do the Irish have the same right to a homeland? As long as they can defend it? And as long as they, you know... As long as they can defend it.

But Tucker, here's the point. Wait a second. Wait a second. Wait, hold on, hold on. Now you just flip out of, you're the minister here. Yeah, and I'm telling me there. As long as I can defend it. And if they can't defend it, they lose the right.

I think that I think that what is very, very special here is that there is a biblical, as well as an ethnic and a historical. So you can take anyone. But if you add them all together, biblical, historical, and ethnic, you have a very strong case that the Jewish people are living in a land that is indigenous to, you know, I'm not. the Jewish people are living in a land that is indigenous to them that has been their historic homeland for 3,800 years. You can repeat it as well. And you can also look in the archaeology. The stones cry out. Okay.

You've been to the city of David, for example. I have. Okay. So you know then that. And I love it. It's an amazing place. It may be the greatest archaeological discovery in all of history because it's pretty great. It's stunning.

And they still continue to find things that date the Jewish people to this land archaeologically. for 3,800 years. We can date the Britain, the British people to their land much longer, much thousands of years longer. Stonehenge is 3,000 years older than any building built by the descendants of Abram in this country. And so I just, it's fine. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's right. I'm just wanting you to affirm that right, but it makes you uncomfortable and you won't, and I don't know why. Because I've never honestly sat down and asked myself, are the lines around the United Kingdom. So we know what the lines are. I'm saying, but are those lines, are those

rooted in something other than the historical connection? Well, great. Then they should have it. But they have a right to have it. But then you said if they can defend it, and if they can't defend it, they lose the right. But I didn't say it was exclusive one of the other. I think you're really going off the trail. I just want to know if these principles apply universally or if they only apply to the people of Israel. And my answer appears to be just the people of Israel. They're the only ones with these rights. And I just reject that as Christian. I didn't say that, but I'm saying we are talking about Israel. We're in Israel. We're talking about Christian Zionism because you've made some disparaging statements about Christian Zionists. You've apologized for him, for which I appreciate.

And now we're trying to define Christian and Zionist. And it seems like we've gone way, way off of that. I'm trying to get, as you suggested, as a former debater at the outset, I'm trying to get to terms and a common understanding of what the words mean. And the term Christian. And I'm no closer to that than I was when I began. You're not closer to the term of Christian, what that means? I think it's someone who follows Jesus. And that's my next question. There are a lot of Christians in the West Bank, and there were a fair amount of Christians

in Gaza, and some of them have been killed. There were 5,000 in Gaza? Yeah. Yeah. And two different churches were hit by the IDF. Christian Hospital was hit seven times by the IDF. don't understand. They were not hit seven times. They were different, I know. And one of the times it was a rocket that was shot by Hamas and all the news agencies reported that the IDF shot the rocket.

Did the IDF ever hit the hospital or the churches? They did. Why? Accidentally. And they apologized for it. And it was very unfortunate. But they also, you've got to remember, there were times Hamas often hid caches of arms under, hospitals. Were you bothered by the fact that the IDF hit Christians? I'm bothered that anyone got killed in Gaza, but you know why I'm bothered? You're a Christian minister, because here's the thing. You can't say that the Christians are Islamic extremists. No, but I can say that the reason to decide with the Christians over the secular government of Israel. But I would look at it even more broadly. I would ask you this, why was there so much suffering and continues to be suffering in Gaza?

it's because Hamas, which could have built a Singapore, built a Haiti, they have a landmass the size of Las Vegas. They built tunnels underneath that are larger than the London underground, over 500 miles of tunnels. They didn't build it to move people from one hospital to the other, one marketplace to the other, but to hide terrorist, to hide weaponry. And in October the 7th, they went over there,

and they massacred 1,200 civilians, massacred, mutilated, humiliated them. You're never going to get me to defend Hamas. Sorry. Please don't. I'm not going to. But I'm telling you. I'm appalled by it.

How many civilians have been killed by the IDF in Gaza? We don't know. What's your guess? Well, the only numbers we have come from this dubious entity called the Gaza Health Ministry. You know who that is? It's Hamas. Well, what does Israel have some kind of count on it? We also know that a lot of the people who were killed were, in fact, warriors.

How many kids were killed? We don't know. What's your guess? I don't know. I'm sure it was thousands, and it's thousands to many. Some of the kids who were killed had been recruited to be in the military. Kids as young as 14 years old. Do you hear yourself?

I wonder? I just said that there were kids as young as 14 that were recruited to be Hamas soldiers who were given arms. How do you feel about the kids being killed? I think it's horrible. You know what I also think is horrible? I think it's horrible that 1,200 people were slaughtered by people across the border. I couldn't agree more. And 252 people were taken hostage.

48 of the 1,200 were Americans. Are all lives equal? When Hamas could have ended this on October 8th and given all the hostages up, they didn't, leaving no choice. You're never going to get me to defend Hamas. I'm not pro-Hamas. I'm totally opposed to slaughtering innocence, whether Hamas does it. it or whether the government of Israel does it in much larger numbers. And the reason I'm opposed to it is because I'm a Christian and I believe that all souls are created by God. I do not disagree

with that wholeheartedly. But I said how many children have been killed? War is a horrible thing, period. And we don't know. We know that a lot of the numbers were reported by Hamas. But you said you think thousands of children have been killed. Yeah. And a lot of times, you know why they got killed? Because Hamas would gather up the children and put them in. the targets. Do you know what Israel does? They send page messages and they send text to every cell phone in Gaza and they say we're going to hit this particular target. They drop leaflets and they announce where they're going to hit. Nobody does that. The U.S. doesn't do that. Israel does that in order to prevent, let me finish this. They do this in order to prevent civilian casualties. What Hamas does,

they say, oh, this is the target. And by gunpoint, they push people into those various places. And then when people get killed, they say, look, Israel just slaughter these people, even though it was Hamas who moved them into harm's way, knowing that it was going to put them in a place of danger and death and destruction. And they do that because they don't care. You say you care about life, I care about life. It's interesting that they don't care about life. not saying that Amos does. You're never going to get me to defend Hamas. I'm

good. I'm anti-Hamon. You said that three times and I believe. Your dig at the United States is very revealing. Why is it revealing? Because your priorities are very clear. No, no, no, no. Yes, they are. Yes, they are. And as an American, permit me a moment of outrage. Because I said, many civilians have been killed. Yeah. And you said, right in the middle of your elaborate defense of the IDF's killing of civilians, including children, you said, they do a better job than the United States does. That's my country and my government. It's my country. What flag am I wearing here? Well, I'm asking why is it? What flag am I wearing? Well, that's, of course, my flag as well. And it's my flag. It's who I serve. So why the dig at the United States in the middle?

It's not a dig at them. It was. No, no, no, no. You've totally misrepresented that. What did you mean by that? I did not take a dig at the U.S. What I'm saying is. So the IDF is more humane than the U.S. I'm saying, military. Do you believe that? I'm just saying that Israel takes steps that we don't take and no other country that I'm aware of takes to try to prevent. Because no matter what Israel does, they're going to get accused of genocide. That may be right. And I'm, um, I'm just telling you that they, but then let me ask you on that question. I'm, you know, I, that's such a politically loaded. But I resent the idea that you think that I'm not loyal to the U.S. or that I somehow, look, I'm not, say you're not loyal. I'm merely noting what you just said, which was that the IDF

takes greater pains in the U.S., our military does, to spare civilian lives. And I guess my My question is, when was the last time the U.S. military killed this many civilians? Do you know? Well, it could have been Nagasaki, Hiroshima. Could have been Iraq, Afghanistan. We don't know the full number. And I think most Christians would say all of those things were atrocities because innocence were killed in large numbers. And we don't believe in that.

And so that's not really a defense, is it? War is a horrible thing, Tucker. And there are people who end up, unfortunately, being killed that shouldn't have been. I would tell you that I wish that none of those people in Gaza had been killed after October 8th. Well, I say not none of them. I'm glad Mohammed Sinwar was killed. I'm glad that some of those warriors that people who masterminded and carried out the atrocities October 7. 14 year old Hamas operatives? How do you feel about their deaths? If they participated in that, then God help them. I'm telling you.

What does that mean God help? I don't know that they were 14 years. No, but I'm telling you that when Someone commits the acts of atrocity and then they hold hostages. If these were your children being held hostage in Gaza, what would you do to get them out? I wouldn't want to kill 14-year-olds. I'll tell you that. Let me ask you something. Would you do whatever it took to get your kids back if they were being tortured, raped, starved, and beaten? I would not kill children, period.

Well, I'm just telling you that you would never make excuses for killing children either. And I'm not talking about targeting children. I'm talking about... You told me that 14-year-olds deserve to die because they were working for hummus? I'm telling you... My question is, can you hear yourself? I do hear myself. So do you think a 14-year-old child has agency?

Do you think that he deserves to die because he's being used by adults? Isn't his death a crushing tragedy? If he's holding a gun and he's pointing it at someone who's trying to save a hostage and the only way to save that hostage, I'm telling you, war is a horrible thing. It's a horrible thing. I think I'm the one who thinks war is a horrible thing. No, no, no, no. I'm trying to explain how horrible it is and you're saying that the 14-year-old deserved to die.

We don't execute 14-year-old. You're putting words in my mouth that I don't know what you're saying. I never said, deserve to die. Okay. I say there are people who die that is unfortunate. Okay. But I'm saying that you are not giving Israel credit for having done everything they possibly could to a level that, quite frankly, in urban warfare, there has never been a war. I mean to criticize Israel, but it's a foreign country, and I would much rather criticize a foreign country than my own.

Feel free to do that. They can tam-l it. But you pivoted against our country. No, I said, Israel's done a better job. that our military has. No, I simply gave you the illustration, and I helped you understand that Israel goes to links that no other country, including ours, goes to, in the middle of an urban war, and yet Israel ended up with fewer civilian deaths in an urban war than any urban war of record. You said you didn't know how many civilian deaths there were, so how can you say that?

If you took Gaza's numbers, Hamas's numbers, you said you didn't know what the numbers are. We don't. You just told me that. Then how can you say? say it's a lower number. But if you took the numbers that they reported, which is like 50,000, 24, 25,000 of those were actual warriors, how many civilians? If you took all the numbers range from 120 to 78, those ones I just read, I don't know if that's real. I don't know either. I'm asking you. Yeah, and I'm telling you, those numbers I've not heard, have not read. The numbers that I think are more reportable are somewhere in the 60,000 range. Where do those come from? From the Gaza Health Ministry, which is from Moss.

I think they are. I don't think that they're accurate, but I'm saying let's just assume. You're saying they're inaccurate, but they prove that Israel's done doing a great job? Let's assume that the most widespread numbers, the largest numbers that have been reported out of Gaza by Hamas. Yes. Let's assume they're true. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying they are true, but assume they're true. Let's just take them at their word. Then you still have a lower number of civilians killed and in any urban warfare environment in modern history. Fact. Is that a fact? Yes. What are you comparing it to? To any urban warfare. Name one. Iraq? Afghanistan. Where in Iraq? We're in Afghanistan.

There aren't many urban areas in Afghanistan. I don't think it was any fighting in urban areas in Afghanistan. Kabul? Kabul? I don't know. Was there were there pitched battles in Kabul over long periods of time? I don't know. 20 years. In Kabul? I don't think. Throughout all of Afghanistan. But what was so what were those rates? rates. You're talking about what are the rates there? You just... The number of people who were killed into the tens of thousands.

I'm asking you to... I don't know the answer. I've never heard of any of this. You brought it up. You said the IDF has killed a lower proportion of civilians in urban warfare than in any urban conflict in modern history. I'd never heard that before. I don't know what are the controls for that.

And you said, well, America, the U.S. military killed more But would you agree that the real tragedy was that Hamas continued to force this war way beyond? Hold on. You just once again said that the IDF is more humane than the United States military. You just said that. You said in Iraq and Afghanistan, the U.S. military killed more civilians than the IDF did in Gaza. You just told me that. I never heard that before.

And my question is, how do you know that? What are those numbers? And I'm trying to explain to you that there were extraordinary efforts to keep the number of flight. I think there were tens of thousands. I'll get them for you. Well, you brought it up. That's the only reason I'm pushing you. But you, I'm wearing a flag.

I've worked for a country. And you pretended or alleged that somehow I'm not loyal to this. And I'm criticizing my own country. And I just said, they did a better job than the U.S. military in Iraq and Afghanistan. And I said, what are the numbers? And you said, I don't know. So on what basis are you making the claim that the IDF in Gaza spared more civilians than the U.S. Army and Marine Corps did in Afghanistan and Iraq. Why are you saying that? Like, on what basis are you saying that?

From the conversations that I've had with the people who fought there. And I don't have the exact numbers for you. But what I'm trying to help you to understand, and I don't think you're willing to go there, is that there was no desire to kill people indiscriminately in Gaza. I don't think there was any desire to kill people indiscriminately in Iraq, Afghanistan. So here's my question. Let me just say, I think, and I know a bunch of people who served in the idea. and I don't believe your average IDF soldier wants to kill innocence. I just want to be really clear about that. I don't think most soldiers want to do that. I think a lot of them in our country, in Israel, wind up doing that

because that's what war is about, and it really hurts them. I know people who've done it personally know them really well, and it wrecks their lives. But I don't think your average soldier wants that in this country or any other. The leadership is a different question, and I want to refer you very specifically to a number of speeches, the Prime Minister of your friend Benjamin Netanyahu gave in the aftermath of October. 7th, including one in November of that year, when he referred to Amalek. Now Amalek is a reference,

a biblical reference. Of course, you'll be very familiar with that. The Amalekites were a tribe described throughout the Bible, particularly in First Samuel, that obstructed the Jews as they fled Egypt. And God tells Samuel to give the instructions to Saul to kill the Amalekites. and he says, and I'm sure you remember this, this is in 1st Samuel 15, of course, I'm sure, I know you know it. He says, kill the men, kill the women, kill the children, kill the infants, kill the donkeys, kill the camels, kill everything. And Saul spares the king, and he spares the animals.

And for that, he is punished by God. That is genocide. God is calling for genocide of the Amalekites, of Amalek. And the prime minister of Israel, at least once, I believe on other occasions, described the Palestinians in Gaza as Amalek. That's calling for genocide. And you know that. I totally disagree. Tell me then what it means.

Because to say that Israel was attempting to commit genocide, first of all, that's simply not true. I'm not saying, I'm saying, what is the prime minister talking about? Why would he refer to the Palestinians as Amalek? What is Amalek? I don't know. I know what Amalek is. I do understand 1 Samuel 16. I get all that.

First Samuel 15. But I do understand. And it's widely known. So if you say our enemy is Amalek and we are proceeding on the basis of God's commands to us, you are calling for genocide. Tell me how I'm missing something. Because if Israel wanted to commit genocide, they could have done it in two and a half hours. We can debate what's happened in Gaza. I'm asking you why the leader of this country.

tree. Ask him. Well, what do you think? I don't know. Does that bother you at all? People, I don't know what he meant. I don't know if it was an illustrative metaphor. I think what he was saying was that we're not going to let anything keep us from getting our hostages back, their sons and their daughters who are being brutalized, raped, tortured, starved, beaten. Come on, Mr. Miss. No, I think there are many examples of justice in the Bible. But there are very few. Israel gets accused of genocide regularly. I'm not accusing Israel of anything. I'm saying that the prime minister of Israel described the Palestinians as Amelah. Do you think he attempted to do genocide? I'm asking why, of all the references in the Bible, and there are many to justice and there are many to reconciliation,

that is a reference to genocide, as you know, killing every man, woman, child, and infant, I'm quoting, and their animals, wiping them from the earth. And when they don't do that, they're punished, when you say that at the outset of a war, and then you wind up with massive civilian casualties, maybe not as big as they were in Iraq, then I have to ask you, what is that? And is that kind of thinking consistent with Western values and with Christianity? Do we as Christians believe it's okay to kill people's children? No, we don't. And neither do the Israelis, because they didn't go after their children.

If they'd have wanted to kill all their children, Tucker, they've got the military capacity. They could have done it in less than a day. I've heard you say that. I mean, I guess they could have done it. Why didn't they? Why didn't they? I think there are a lot of decent people in Israel who don't want that. But I'm talking.

Do you think that the prime minister wanted to wipe out every single person in Gaza? Do you really think that? I'm asking you what you think is the U.S. representative of our government. I don't think that that's what he wanted to do. Did you ask him? Why are you referring? He never had to ask him that. Why?

Because I never saw any evidence, any evidence that Israel tried to wipe. out every single person. I just gave you examples that they tried to save civilian lives. But I'm not, by the way, I'm not, as I've said, and I meanness, I think most soldiers in most armies, including the Israel Defense Force, don't want to kill civilians. I just don't believe that. I think there are some lunatics. Can I ask you something? Yes. You platformed a guy. You had him on your show, Tony Aguilar. Don't platform anyone. Well, you interviewed. Not a liberal Vital platform people. Okay.

You interviewed Tony Aguilar, who claimed that IDF soldiers killed a little boy in his presence. Uh-huh. That didn't happen. Okay. It did not happen. I don't know if you know whether it happened or not. Well, I can tell you why I know it didn't happen. Okay.

Because we found that little boy less than a week later. All right. I was involved, heavily involved, in helping to extricate him from Gaza, four different countries were involved in getting he and his mother to safety, get them out of there. Tony Aguilar is a liar. Okay. Tony Aguilar claimed that he saw an IDF soldier shoot the little boy. He was fired from the GHF for cause, and he begged for his job back, and they wouldn't give it back because they didn't want him.

And he told him that if they didn't give his job back, that he would burn him down. Okay. So he goes out. No, let me finish this. because it's important for you to understand. So this guy then goes out and makes up this story that he witnessed IDF soldiers shooting a little boy. I don't know that he made it up.

He seemed to believe it to me. It's possible he's wrong. I've been wrong many times. Well, this is a little bit more than just missing a fact. He claimed to be an eyewitness to the murder of a little boy. A little boy that a week later we found. And you're sure it's the same little boy? We're absolutely certain.

How do you know that? Because we have pictures of him. We had descriptions of him. We know his name. We know his mother. He was extricated out of Gaza. It was a very delicate situation to get him out because if Hamas had found out that he was still alive, they would have killed him in order to validate Aguilar's story. How do you know that?

So he gets out. How do you know Hamas would have killed him? Why would they? Wouldn't they ever wanted to kill him? Because that way they could have said that this story was true. Look, I'm just telling you that this kid is alive today. And I have no basis of knowing. Yeah.

I'm really glad. because I don't want little kids to get killed even 14-year-olds. Okay. You shouldn't want anyone to get killed. But let me ask you, is it true? He also made the claim, and he had audio of it and video, too, that U.S. contractors were using live ammunition to disperse crowds. And he had video of that. Do you know if, did he make up that video?

There were times. Here's what happened. Crowds would come toward the sites. They were given verbal warnings. and then they were given additional verbal warnings, and shots were fired either in the air, sometimes in the ground. And if they continue to come and threaten, there were times when there were people

who were engaged in firefights. That happened. Oh, they were armed? Sometimes they were. They were. Do you know of specific instances where they were armed? I can probably get you some specific information about that. I think I know the answer to that. I don't think there's any evidence at all that they were armed.

But I also know that the new... Are you okay with using live ammunition at aid distribution sites for families, women and children? Well, very rarely did this happen near aid distributions? Are you okay with that? No, I tell you what I'm not okay with. No, no, no. I think you are so trying to put words in my mouth. I'm not.

You said that they were firing back, but then there's no evidence that they were. On a Sunday afternoon, I can remember when there was widespread reports on BBC, CNN, and the New York Times, and they said that 27 people were killed at a feeding site. We had video extensively over that site. Not one single person, not only were they not shot, nobody was shot at. There was not one bit of violence that happened at that feeding site. Trying to get me to defend BBC? I'm not going to do that.

It's like defending Hamas. I agree with you. I don't believe anything I see in the media. It's just that it's really simple. If people are using, and these were American contractors, by these are not Israelis that I'm aware of, American contractors run by some crypto minister or something was running the group, If they're using live ammunition at an aid distribution site, that strikes me as totally unacceptable. They were not firing at crowds. Does it seem acceptable to you? They were not firing at crowds.

If people got killed, there's a way to some of those people got killed because Hamas were trying to keep them from getting to the aid distribution sites because Hamas was controlling the food. Hamas made $500 million selling the food that was supposed to be given away for free. I could defend Hamas. And what they were trying to do is to keep people from going to. to the sites where they were getting food for free, when we set GHF up, the first thing that happened, I know, but I'm telling you, the first thing that people said was, wow, this is the first time we've had food that we got for free. Is it okay to buy it? Unarmed people? I just told you it wasn't. That's awful. Yeah, it's awful. Of course it's awful. Are all lives equal, do you think? Of course they are. So the death of Palestinian is every bit as important significance as the death is over time.

Why wouldn't it be? Of course it is. I don't know. There's no such. There's no such. thing is a human soul that God made that is less valuable than another. I'm pro-life. Me too. So I believe that every life has intrinsic worth and value. There's no such thing as a worthless or a completely disposable life. That's what makes me pro-life, Tucker. I totally agree. And I believe that from the conception until the end of natural life. Why, I would never say when confronted with the death of children, war is terrible because it minimizes the deaths of those children. It's awful. I don't think it minimizes. I think it, it, is. It is outrageous.

It's a terrible thing. I wish we never had war. Why do we have war? We're about to have one with Iran, it looks like. How many Americans do you think will die in that war? I hope none. None died last year when we participated in the 12-day war, not one. You said 20,000 would die, and they didn't.

I said could. And they could have. But they could die now, and that's a real risk. How many boots on the ground do you think the U.S. is supplied for Israel over the course of its life? How many times have we put soldiers on the ground for Israel? Well, we had the Iraq War, which was for Israel. No, it wasn't for Israel. How was it for us?

Well, because it was a retribution against 9-11. Now, was it the best idea? Was Iraq involved in 9-11? Our government thought so. Why are 9-11 documents still classified? I have no idea. Should they be unclassified? I think so.

All of them, right? I have no problem with that. Me too. I like transparency. I like sunlight. I do, too. I do, too. I hope you'll call for that.

I like free press. I like free speech. I totally agree. I really, I like all of that. But if no, if there was no connect, I've never seen, I'm open to anything, but I've never seen any connection between the government of Saddam Hussein, the secular bathist government of Saddam Hussein and the terror attacks of 9-11. I don't know that there were. I don't know. Right.

So, so I'm not sure, but I don't know how that did we spend. Why was that Israel's fault? Well, Benjamin Netanyahu, now prime minister, of course, exerted lots of pressure openly on the U.S. government to take out. to regime change the Saddam government. I was there. It was in Washington. And they complied. I don't think there's any way to read it. Do you think Israel leads the U.S. and pushes them and tells them what to do?

Not on everything, of course. Do you think, what do they push them off? I think the Israeli government strongly pushed the United States to take out Saddam Hussein. There's no question about that. I think the Israeli government right now, on Bibi Netanyahu, has been in the White House, seven times in one year, pushing for regime change in Iran. I think they're on the verge of convincing this administration to affect regime change in Iran. You think the president is weak and is being pushed?

I'm not saying that. I know the president's being pushed. Why do you think a foreign leader was in the White House seven times in one year? Are you okay with that? That's a lot. You know, Israel is not just a friend or an ally. It is a real partner. We have an incredible relationship with Israel in intelligence.

and in military, in culture, in values, you know, to be shocked that the Israeli prime minister would have that many meetings, it's a lot. But I want to ask you the question. Do you think President Trump is weak enough to let Bibi Netanyahu push him into something that he doesn't want to do? I don't. Look, I think, and I don't know, of course, the answer to every question, including this one, but I think that President, President Trump really doesn't like nuclear proliferate. and I don't think he wants Iran to have a bomb. I think he really sincerely means that. I hope you don't want them to have a bomb. Want them to have a bomb?

I don't want anyone to have a bomb, including Israel. I don't know why we're okay with Israel having nuclear weapons. I'm not. I'm not okay with Pakistan having them. I'm not okay with Saudi having them. Israel's nuclear weapons were created, of course, with nuclear material stolen from the United States, from a nuclear plant in Pennsylvania.

As I know you know, I'm opposed to all of it. I don't like nuclear weapons. It's mass murder, as far as I'm concerned. So no, I don't want Iran to have a bomb, obviously. The question is, what are the potential costs? And you have to factor that into any decision. And what are the cost if they were to get a nuclear bomb? They've said for 47 years death to America, they target us.

They've targeted President Trump specifically. Yeah, I mean, they've hired a person to assassinate. Iran, BBC and Hamas, not defending them. Good. All I'm seeing is. Our country is not three. and we're spending, you know, tens and tens and tens of billions of dollars over time defending Israel and helping it prosecute all these.

Do you know where that money goes? It goes to a lot of places. But let's talk about that a minute. $3.8 billion a year. That money goes right back to the U.S. to purchase weapons systems. For example, every round of ammo that the IDF shoots is manufactured just outside where I live in Little Rock, Arkansas. The components, a lot of them for the Iron Dome and the Arrow 3 missile defense systems are manufactured near Camden, Arkansas.

Which needs it, by the way. Camden's economically depressed. You know the area. I do. And there are thousands and thousands of American jobs, and there are billions and billions of dollars of expenditures that Israel makes in the U.S. and buys the things that we try and sell them. I know how defense contracting works. I'm from Washington.

I know this. I guess what I'm saying is America's not thriving at all. And you think it's Israel's fault? I don't think it's Israel's fault. Okay, well, good. I know. I just think that what we're doing isn't working at all. And America's not richer. I think the president is doing some amazing things to get us back on track. Not attacking Trump. Okay. I'm merely saying that over, say, the last 20 years, America has not gotten richer or freer at all. And I come to Israel and the infrastructure, we were flying in. And I said to my buddy, I was like, man, the first looks great. I love the agriculture in Israel because it's beautiful. I love green. I love plants. I remember when it didn't look like that. Yeah, yeah. First time I came in 53 years ago. It's great. It did not look like that. It looks a lot nicer than our country. It has

a higher standard of living. It has nicer roads than the United States. And so it's like, okay, why are we sending all this money to a country that has a higher standard of living than ours? I don't know that they have a higher standard of living. They do actually. They have free health care. They also have free abortion. Are you okay with it? that? I personally don't like that. Why would we be subsidizing? Why would we send any money? We're not. Why would we send any money to a country that provides free abortion? Because the money that we send does not pay for health care, it does not pay for abortion. It pays for military things. It's like if they don't spend it on this, they'll spend it on that. But they do spend it on that.

And then we get many more times back in the return of the investment when we get the research and development. Why don't we say we're not sending you any more money as long as you have free abortion? Well, that would be a policy decision. I would be for that. I would be okay with it because I I hate abortion. I think it's horrible. How much do you hate it? I hate it. Why are we setting the money if they're paying for free abortion? Because they're not paying for abortions with the money. And because we in turn get billions of dollars, the return of investment is estimated somewhere between 400 and 1,200 percent. I've heard these numbers. I just live there and I know, and I'm, by the way, I'm for American manufacturing. The defense industry is totally corrupt in CD as you know. However, I like to see American companies thrive. Like, it's complicated. I'm not.

not an extremist or an absoluteist on really anything other than abortion. However, net net, as we say, our country's not really thriving. And we're also totally broke. But why is that the case? Is it because we've done a lousy job controlling our borders, a lousy job of controlling our economy? It's a lot of things. But we own that. I think President Trump is doing remarkable things to turn it around. I cannot imagine any president. I know. But if you're saying the country is in trouble, let's say we're out of money, actually. Let's give credit to what the president is doing to get us out of debt because I think that what he's doing economically is a standing. I'm not supporting Hamas and I'm not attacking Trump.

Okay. Just with those baseline agreements. It's also true that like our debt is not sustainable. And so given that like what do you think it will cost? What did it cost to move all these, to move the fleet off Iran into the Persian Gulf? A lot less than it would to bury a lot of Americans if they ever got a long range ballistic missile. A lot less. Tucker, I want you to understand that when Iran has told us for 47 years, they're going to kill us?

Do you think they would do it if they had the capacity militarily? What would happen if Iran took out any of the energy facilities in the Gulf, took out a bunch of them? What would happen to the United States economy, do you think? Well, our economy probably would survive because we have energy independence, thanks to President Trump. It would survive? our economy is based on our own energy. What would be a terrible thing to happen globally? It's why Iran is a global threat.

It's why Iran through its proxies, Tucker, this is another thing. They're not blowing up energy infrastructure right now, but if we try to regime change them, they have said that they will. I don't know if they will or not. I don't either. Is that a risk that? But they have their own problems to defend if they try to do that and they lose their own energy capacity. Are you worried about, Sue, if they took out, and again, I don't know what's going to happen. And I guess we're not supposed to think about worst case because that makes us pro-Islamic or something.

But I'm an American and I don't want a depression in our country. It's too fractured and unstable right now. I don't think we want that at all. None of us want that. None of us want that. Not right now. We don't. I don't want it next year, next week, 10 years.

Especially now. All these states are basically in a state of insurrection against the federal government. They're not enforcing the most basic law of the land, which is immigration. And thank goodness President Trump is pushing back. And he's- I agree. I'm just saying, if all of a sudden, compliance. Markets just tanked and gas tripled or whatever. And you had, you know, like a severe recession or something worse,

that's a massive cost. And I don't see anybody factoring in that possibility. Iran has said it will do it. You've said 10 times they're evil. Okay, I believe you. Then why wouldn't they take out the Qatari gas fields they share with Qatar or refining petrochemicals, extraction, in any of the Gulf countries.

That would cripple us. Are you worried about that? Energy-wise, again, we have independence because President Trump put measures in place that gave us the capacity. Do we set international energy prices in the United States? In some ways, we do because our own market and our own production has a whole lot to do

with what those world costs are going to be. If you took Saudi energy production or Qatari energy production or Emirati energy production offline. And that is making an assumption that if there were regime change, that they would be more effective at attacking than we would be defending. And that's a pretty...

Can we defend the Straits-Fermuz? Can we defend all of that energy infrastructure? Is anyone even asking these questions? Or it's all like a Markle-Leven episode? They're bad. They're certainly asking the questions. That's part of the whole process. I'm just saying, is it... I've raised this before,

and it's like, shut up, Cotarlson. You're taking money from the jihadis. I've never taken a dime from anybody. obviously. I just care about the United States and it freaks me out and no one else seems worried about this. And caring about the U.S., you should care about the fact that the proxies of Iran have moved globally. Twelve Central and South American countries have Hezbollah, deeply embedded. Venezuela, one of the worst. They're in the Western Hemisphere already. Do we know how many... Where would you rank that on the list of concerns for the average American, Hezbollah and South America?

I doubt that most Americans think about it. I think about it because I know what they do. I know that if it weren't for Iran, there wouldn't be a mosque, there wouldn't be the Houthis, there wouldn't be Hezbollah, we wouldn't have the problem on the border with Lebanon, we wouldn't have the problem with Yemen, we wouldn't have the difficult. What problem on the border with Lebanon? I'm, as I'm an American, I'm not having any problems on the border with Lebanon right now. I live in Maine. We don't have problems on the border of Lebanon. Like, what are you even talking about? No offense. There's 700,000 Americans who live in Israel, for one thing. Does that matter to you?

Well, of course. Every American life matters the same. So that should matter. But my country, like, I'm just saying like, shelling civilians and civilians get killed in this place, that should matter to all of us. But, I mean, there's a genocide going on, like, in all kinds of different countries. There's a lot that's sad and broken about the world. We know that as Christians, Satan rules the world.

But our job as, like, members of a nation state is to look after our community, our families, right? So I don't think any of the concerns that you've just raised, which I think are all real. I'm not disputing them at all. Or even in like the top 100 for Americans. So how can the U.S. government be spending this much time and money worrying about things that are not on the list of Americans' concerns?

Do we have self-government? Does it matter what Americans actually think or it doesn't it? Of course it does. But it also matters. How much does it matter? What the threat is to Americans? Do you think there's a threat to Americans because of the proliferation of the proxies and Iran? Conceivably there is?

I'm not pro-Iran. But beyond conceivably? Do you think that they mean it when they say for 47 years? We've got a threat from drug cartels like in my town and no one's doing anything about it at all. And I'm hearing a lot about the- You don't think the president's doing anything about it at all? Okay, that's a fact. We have a huge country.

This is a country that size of New Jersey with no resources. You know, it's just a tiny little country. We're from a huge continental-sized country that's totally diverse, very, very hard to manage and police. And we have a lot of problems. And I just think if you ask Americans, what do they want to spend their time and money worrying about fixing, improving? No one's going to mention the border with Lebanon that I know. Do you think?

I doubt they will. But I would like to think that there are people that the U.S. government has monitoring what the threats are to Americans long term. Sure. Yeah, I agree. Do you think there's a threat? The question is, when people tell you for 47 years, Well, but I don't know that Saddam ever said he was going to take down America.

But the Iranian regime has said for 47 years they are. If they had the capacity of a long-range ballistic missile and nuclear capability, do you think they'd light that puppy up and send it to us? I don't know. But I know this. From sitting here last year, four wars that I went through in less than a year, the Iranians rained down ballistic missiles. Can I ask you a question?

How much does it matter what Americans think? Well, it matters every bit what Americans think. That's why Americans vote. It's why Americans have the opportunity to have free speech. We want them to have that. Okay, so what percentage of Americans support a war with Iran? I don't know. Do you know? I do. I think it's run.

I saw the numbers yesterday. I think it was like 21%. Okay. Is that enough to have a war with Iran? We don't live in a world where you have a poll taken to find out whether our policy should be a particular direction. I thought you just said that we vote. No, we care deeply about it. But on the other hand, do we make the decisions of foreign policy

and even domestic policy based on what the latest poll number is? If we're ignoring it, then in what sense do we, quote, care deeply about it? Well, I think we care deeply when we see there's a threat. No, but about Americans' opinions. So you've got 350 million Americans. They vote. They voted in this last election on the basis in part of the promise no more wars. So now we're about to have a war looks like.

80% of people are against it in that range, let's say it's 70%, but nowhere near majority support for this war. And it's not direct democracy, but it is a form of democracy. It's representative democracy. The ultimate form of democracy in our system in a republic, because we're not a true democracy. We're a republic. It's a mediated democracy.

It'll be an opportunity for Americans to vote if they think that we've made the wrong policy decisions. I personally think the president is making the right policy decisions. But I guess, but you just said it matters deeply what Americans think, and if the overall majority are against it, in what sense does it matter? Because what I hear is, it matters what they think, but it really doesn't matter what they think because...

No, you take it in. You certainly ingest that. And then what do you do with it once you ingest it? Then you make sure that you have... No, it just got it. It goes out the other end, obviously. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. But you also have information that the average American may not have.

They may not know what the threat is. How many Americans know that Hezbollah is in 12 Western Hemisphere countries? How many Americans care? Well, I would hope they would all care. How many Americans know how many people from Iran from terrorist cells have come across Joe Biden's open border? How many Americans care about that? Okay, you care about it. Why haven't they been rounded up?

But they're trying. But you got all these blue state. mayors and governors making it very difficult. I get it. But thank God, President Trump is trying to get it done. Look, I'm totally all for that completely. I guess what I'm saying is that most Americans, I've never met an American who thinks,

other than like the people who have ideological reasons to pretend they think it, that the imminent threat to America is anything having to do with Iran. The imminent threats to America include, like, bankruptcy from too much debt, your son Odeeing on fentanyl, your neighborhood completely changing because unlike Israel, Americans don't have a right to their country.

It can just be completely changed by their legislature. New people can show up from foreign countries and not speak your language and there's nothing you can do about it because you don't have a right because you're not BB. Can you feel the resentment because it's real? I'm not against Israel. I'm against the total destruction. You hide that very well. I'm mad at my lawmakers for not protecting my country with the care they've protected Israel.

I don't think that your country, my country, our country, has spent that much time protecting Israel. I'll ask you a little bit ago. They spent no time protecting my country. No, I ask you, well, actually they do. How? They are the tip of the spear. Every enemy they have is our enemy. Protecting our country? Things that are targeted toward us often go through them. How do we have 60 million illegal aliens if they protected my country? Well, we didn't protect our country because we had a president that opened up the borders and didn't give a rip that many people coming in. Since Reagan, 1986. That's 40 years this year.

President Trump, the credit for having closed the book. I'm giving, I love the fact, I campaigned for Trump because he said he closed the border, he did, amen, thank you, Trump. But we had Reagan, then we had Bush, then we had Clinton, then we had Bush again, ugh, then we had that guy, Obama, and then, you know the presidents. Yeah. And they all presided over my country's total transformation from a nice, clean, affluent, orderly society into like pretty kind of third world, actually. That's not protecting us. That's behaving with total contempt for my country. You said a moment ago that we do more, are you inferred, that we do more for Israel than we do for ourselves? Do you believe that? No, I don't, I didn't say we do more for Israel. It's like,

but where's the care? Where's the concern? Where's the, holy smokes, there are drug cartels in your neighborhood? You're telling me about the border with Lebanon and like Hezbollah or Hezbollah, or Hezbollah, whatever you call it, in some Latin American country, I don't care. They're drunk hotels in my neighborhood. I know people who've died of fentanyl ODs. Where do the fentanyl come from? Probably from China. From China through Mexico.

Yeah, the precursor chemicals, they say come from China. I get it. And who's in that axis with China, Iran? Larry Fink is in that axis with, no, actually. Actually, the heads of our biggest corporations are in that axis with China. I don't care about Iran at all. I care about America. And if blowing up Iran makes my country richer and safer, I'm for it.

And if it doesn't, I'm totally opposed. It's that simple. I think most Americans feel that way, no? I ask you a question a little bit ago. You never got back to, because I think it's an important one. Because one of the things that I sense attention with you, you feel like that we do too much for Israel. We're getting nothing from it. And I ask you how many...

No, no, I don't think we're getting nothing from them. How many boots on the ground has the U.S. placed on behalf of Israel. However many went to Iraq, we did that for Israel. No, I don't think we did. You said we did it because of 9-11? That was the U.S. justification for it. But it wasn't for 9-11.

So what was the actual reason? Well, that's the U.S. government told us it was for 9-11. They told us that they were part of it, that they had weapons of mass destruction. But they knew they had nothing with 9-11, obviously. There's no evidence. So what was the actual reason? Israel was not in that component. Israel had no influence on our decision to invade Iraq?

not with the people who made the decision say. They say, Israel. Let me get back to the point. Gave us that information about the fake weapons of mass destruction. What do you think that came from? It came from B.B. How many, how many Americans put their boots on the ground for Israel? The answer is zero. Everybody who served in Iraq put their boots on the ground for Israel. Did not. Did not. Where did we get the information about the weapons of mass destruction that wasn't real? I didn't get that from. You're saying we got that from Israel? That Israel was one pushed us into that? Well, absolutely. You really believe that. I know that for a fact. And so does every...

Yes, this has been widely written about and discussed. And I'm not attacking Israel. Like, they thought it was in their interest to take out a government that was paying the families of suicide bombers. I get it. I'm not mad at Israel about that. I never have been. I'm mad at the Bush administration

and all the people who went along with this to the detriment of my country. That's who I'm mad at. Not Israel. BB's doing what he can for his country, whether you agree with them or not. I want my leaders to do the same for my country. That's it.

I think the present leadership is doing just that. I truly do. And I don't think that it's at all accurate to even intimate that tiny little Israel is pushing the U.S. into something it does not want to do. I totally. Our leaders appear to want to do it. Our public does not want to do it at all. The public does not want war with Iran. Bibi does.

He's gotten seven trips to the White House. The average American does. Hold on. The average American doesn't have that level of access, and a foreign leader does seven in one year. And now we're moving toward war with Iran. The average American doesn't want that war. The average American is outraged. Don't you understand? I'm not attacking BB at all. I understand that we have the strongest president I've ever seen in my lifetime going back to Eisenhower for a second. If you're in America. No, no, no, listen to me, Tucker, for gosh sake. I'm not attacking Trump. I like Trump. I know, but you're making it sound like that he is being. pulled into something that he really doesn't want to do or pulled into something because he's persuaded. I'm neither saying that nor implying. I was in the meeting last week. I was in the meetings last summer. I can assure you, President Trump is not being led into something at all by Prime Minister Netanyahu. To be clear, I'm neither saying that nor implying it. Good. What I am stating out loud is true. And that's that Prime Minister Netanyahu, B.B. Netanyahu has way more influence over.

Americans form policy than Americans do. And we know this because he wants a war with Iran, the overwhelming majority of Americans don't want a war with Iran, and we're very likely to get a war with Iran. So who has more influence? Benjamin Netanyahu or 80% of Americans. And I'm saying that's outrageous. That's all I'm saying. I would counter that. Bibi Netanyahu does not want a war with Iran. To say that he wants a war, you know who's going to be at the very front of that, his people. And I don't agree with that. I'm with him enough to know. He does not want a war. He doesn't. Does he think that there may be a necessity of taking a war in order to prevent an attack on not just Israel? I don't want to be argument. But I think I know

too much. I mean, let's be real. Okay, so there was, you know, Steve Likoff, in my opinion, that's just a sterling guy, just a good guy. He's a good guy. That's my view. And kind of pro-American and just couldn't be nicer and wants the right thing, and he's probably Trump's best friend. He and maybe Jared two are involved in the negotiation with Hamas. Are you mean with Iran? With Iran. Yeah.

I'm so sorry. Okay. And the Israeli government short-circise it by hitting Iran. So like they... What do you mean they short-circuit about hitting Iran? They did everything they could. could to shut down the negotiations between the United States, the Trump administration, and Iran. And look, I wouldn't, they're acting again in their own interest, but our country should also act

in its own interest. That's all I'm saying. And so don't tell me that BB doesn't want a war with Iran. He doesn't. If Jared Kushner and Steve Whitkoff could be successful in getting the president's demands, and keep in mind, these are the president's demands. demands. No enrichment, no nuclear weapon, quit killing your own people in the streets, but the tens of thousands. You and I both agree that it's a horrible thing to kill your own citizens, which Iran is doing. It's a horrible thing to kill anybody's citizens. Anybody's citizens. We agree on that. Except that they're 14-year-olds working for Hamas, but whatever. It's still a tragedy. No, it is. Sorry, I'm being a jerk. You really are being a

I am. I know, I know, I know. I know. I have such a jerk. I'm going to write down, Tucker Farsson admitted, I know. He's a jerk. Oh, I am. I'm a jerk. Everyone knows that. I mean, I'm trying to really trying. Okay. Okay. No, but I agree with you 100%. Of course it's a tragedy. If that could be done, and I pray it can. Yes. And you know why? Number one, because it would be wonderful for everybody. Number two, if there is a war, you're going to be 6,000 miles from it. You know where I'm going to be? In the bullseye. Do I want there to be a war? No. Do Israelis want there to be a war? No. How many? I keep hearing Israel's fighting a seven front war right now. What are those seven fronts? Well, you got Lebanon. You have Egypt. Now, Egypt is not an active war, but you have the Muslim Brotherhood within Egypt. You've got the Muslim Brotherhood in Jordan. You've got Syria.

Wait, they're fighting war with Jordan? With the Muslim Brotherhood that is in Jordan, not directly with Jordan, not the government of Jordan. But are they... You've got Hezbollah. You've got Lebanon. Houthis. In Yemen. You have Hamas in Gaza.

You have the threats that come from Iran. And how many is that? That's seven. That's seven, okay. I'd give you an eighth one. You know, the eighth one? The media. No, I would tell you, there's an eighth front war.

How many journalists is Israel killed in Gaza? I don't know. Over 200. That seems like a lot of them. Now, are they real journalists? Because a lot of those people that were supposedly journalists were actually Hamas fighters that are documented, Hamas fighters. So that's why I ask you how many are actual journalists.

You know, I don't know, but a lot of them were. I mean, they worked for big news organizations. Asians and they had press written on their chest. Yeah, some of them had UNRRA cars and they were also working for Hamas. So are you concerned? Do you think that over 200 journalists killed in Gaza are all fake journalists who deserve to be killed? I have no idea how many the total number is. I don't have their credentials, but I know that there were quite a few.

There were actually Hamas fighters that protected Hamas. Ask the hostages. The hostages came back and they started telling about the number of people that were doctors in hospitals that held them hostage in their homes. are the number of people who are pretending to be journalist, who are actually holding them hostage. I'm just telling you that there's a lot more to... As someone whose tax dollars helped pay for killing all those civilians in Gaza,

I feel like I have a right to know how many were killed, and Israel won't let outside observers in to figure it out. And I'm frustrated. I just want to say that. My last question is about Christians, both Christians who visit and Christians who live here, particularly in the West Bank. I spoke to someone recently, a Christian minister who grew up in a town right outside Bethlehem, we would know it as Shepherds Field in the New Testament where the shepherds were tending their flocks in Matthew.

And of course, the angels come and announce to the arrival of Jesus in nearby Bethlehem. His family's been Christian, he says, for 2,000 years. He says his, where he grew up is now surrounded by settlements of people who are not from Israel at all, from the United States, Jewish settlements. They have different roads that the native Christians are not allowed to use. I don't quite know how that works. And he described a story where his mother was shot outside their house by an IDF soldier for reasons no one ever explained. She survived, but no one was ever punished for it or even explained why they did it. He basically described being terrorized by settlers. And I wonder if that's a concern for.

for you, for the native population, the indigenous population. Did you say this happened in Bethlehem? It happened in Shepherd's Field, so it's a Christian village. Bet Sahur, I think, is its name. Outside, right outside Bethlehem. If it's in Bethlehem. It's not in Bethlehem. It's, again, it's, I think it's Bet Sahur, I believe, is the name of the village.

Because there are no Israelis in Bethlehem, none. There are no Jews in Bethlehem. Are there new settlements outside Bethlehem where he is from? Over in area C, but not in area A, there are none. Well, he describes the town he grew up in, and I guess I wonder why a Christian whose family's been there for 2,000 years. There are Palestinian Christians throughout today in Summary. That's true. I've been over to visit him.

I know you have. I know you have, and some have been, you know. We've advocated for some that are Muslim, but they're American citizens, and we advocated because there was. But why can't they just drive into Jerusalem to go to the Church of the Holy Sepulch? Why do they need a permit to do that if they're from there? Because of the acts of terrorism that has made it impossible to do it. But they're, hold on. No, no, no.

You ask this question. So what do we do? Just say you're a Christian? Oh, yeah, I'm a Christian. But you're wearing a suicide bomb? Do Christians do suicide bombs? They could. If all they have to do is just say, announce I'm a Christian, there were over a thousand.

Why don't just get an identity card. It says I'm Christian. Let me just finish this. Before Israel put the green line up, and before they took great care to put checkpoints in place, there were over a thousand suicide bombers in one year. It was awful. I remember it, but I don't think any of them were Christians. They might not have been. Okay, but we could find out if they were.

So you're saying we just trust somebody if they come up and say, I'm a Christian, I just want to go to the Holy Sepulter, let me in? What I'm saying is that Christians have a right to go to the Holy Sepulcher? Israel does not own it. They've had possession of it since 1967. It doesn't belong to Beebe. It belongs to me and you and every other Christian. BB was probably a young person. I don't even sure even...

They... No Christians should ever be barred from the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Should Christians be barred from Joseph's Tomb and Nabolus? I don't know. Let's just start with the Church of the Holy Sepulch in Jerusalem. And I don't understand on what grounds they are. Well, they can't if they're Christians at Bet Sohor.

So I don't understand why. they're a threat, they're not a threat. And why won't you, as the Christian minister, U.S. ambassador to the state of Israel, say to the prime minister, you can't allow this. Your country exists in part because American Christians support you, so you have to treat us well. Part of the problem, Tucker, is that in the Palestinian Authority, and that's what we're talking about, there are Christians. Look, I know some Christians who live in Bethlehem, and that is Area A. Bethlehem was 80 plus percent Christian before Oslo, 80 percent Christian, less than 20 percent Muslim. Today it's flipped. It's now 80 plus percent Muslim. It's very few Christian. And some of the Christians that I personally know and know well are Zionists. Let that surprise you. They're Zionists.

And some are really anti-Zionists. Okay. So in the Palestinian Authority, they still teach children from the time they're five years old. that the greatest thing in the world is to kill Jews. And if they end up being a martyr, and if they kill Jews, they will get a pension for life if they die. And if they don't, they'll get a paycheck for life, and their families will. And it's called the Prisoners and Martyrs Fund.

We call it pay for slay in the U.S. It is against our law. A lot of Christians collecting on that? I don't know. Zero. So my question remains, and I'm a little bit frustrated at this point, because I'm not defending Hamas.

I hate suicide bombing. I hate suicide. I hate violence, I hate the killing of children, period. Why can't a Christian who was born there, whose family's been there for 2,000 years following Jesus for 2,000 years, drive because it's really close to the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. He poses no threat. And why can't the United States government advocate for him to do that?

We do advocate for Americans because that's our job. And it doesn't matter whether Palestinian or Israeli. We do that. But as far as when they... How many Americans are being held in Israeli prisons right now? Total. I don't have an exact number on that. I don't know.

How can you advocate for them if you don't know how many there are? Well, everyone that we know, we go visit. Our consular goes there almost every week and visits the Americans. It's not a large number as far as Americans. But when we have them, we go, we go to their trials when they're on trial. So, yeah, we do a lot more than you've given us credit for. Oh, I'm giving you credit. No, no, you understand.

I'm giving you credit. Thank you for doing that because we don't get much. We don't get much. By the way, not every embassy does that. I happen to know for a fact. They don't advocate for Americans in jail. We take our consular services across into the Palestinian Authority and help people over there. Some of those are Christians.

Some are not. Some are Muslim. But if they're Americans and they have American citizens put an American passport, we help them. That makes me so happy to hear. I go to Ramallah. I sit down with the vice president and the prime minister of the Palestinian Authority. We try to work ways to make things. things better. But the reason that sometimes it's not just an absolute free passage,

I'll tell you why, because there are too many incidences of terrorist acts, and Israel is not going to allow themselves. But the Christians didn't do it, and they're not going to do it, and Christians pay for all of this. They pay for a lot of this. It's a formal, it's very, you can say it's unfair, but here's. You can't punish the innocent. How's that? But you got to somehow make sure that you screen people, and that's why the checkpoints, let me tell you what happened not too very long ago. We had a humanitarian aid truck that came across from Jordan. The driver was supposedly vetted. He was a former Jordanian military person. He came across the checkpoint. Everything should be fine, right? He gets out of his truck. He takes a gun, and he shoots two of the

people, I believe it, who are the Israelis at the checkpoint, one of whom was a young person less than a year in the job, his mother teaches in the American school where our embassy people go in Herzalia, I get to make the phone call to the mother. I'm going to tell you something. It was not the most pleasant day of my life. It sounds awful. It is awful. And so those kind of incidences are the reason that it is difficult to go from Judea, Samaria, or West Bank, call it whatever you want. But if you're in Area A, which is under the control of the Palestinian Authority, and your education has been that killing Jews is a wonderful thing. I'm talking about the Christians.

But the Christians, if they go to those schools, that's still going to get that education. When was the last time there was a suicide bomb debt and then by a Christian? I don't know. Never. Let me ask you this. Look, I'm not trying to defend,

but I'm saying to you that if the curriculum doesn't get changed, if the pay for Slay doesn't get changed, you have a culture. Well, you say it doesn't apply. Maybe it never has happened. I don't know whether it has ever happened. When will Palestinians in the West Bank? have the same rights as Israelis and the West Bank.

Are you talking about the ones that live in the Palestinian Authority? I'm talking about people who live in the villages they grew up in. They changed hands when from one government to another in 1960s, whether they live under the Palestinian Authority government or whether they live under Israeli. If they live under Area A, do you know the difference? I do. Okay.

If they live under Area A, they live under the Palestinian Authority government. They don't live under Israeli government. But it's controlled by the Israeli government completely. There's no airport. They control the utilities. I mean, this is, it's silly. I understand there's a form of self-government. But the big decisions were made by the Israeli government, obviously.

I've been there. I know this. And you know it too. So how long does this go on? You say that God gave the nation of Israel the right to this land. Why not just take it, declare it Israel and make everyone a citizen? I don't understand why that's not happening. Well, you know what?

There are people who think that that would be a much better future. Well, what do you think? I think it very well could be. And if you ask certain people living in the PA under their very corrupt government where 91% of the people think the government is hopelessly corrupt, that's what the numbers are. They would tell you that they would be better off. Well, sure.

If the Israelis were the governing authority. Everyone gets voting rights. Would that be the case? If they were all under Israeli authority, you know, there are, do you realize there are lots of Arab Israelis? I know. And they vote. Do you know they serve in the Knesset? I'm very aware of that.

And I'm just wondering. And they serve on the Supreme Court? And did you know that it was an Arab who sentenced a former president and prime minister to prison? I know all this. I just want to know what's going to happen. Do you know how many Jews get to help govern Saudi Arabia or Qatar or Syria? I'm not. But what is? This is a much more open government in society, and you make it sound like the Israelis.

I don't make it sound that way. I'm just asking. No, I'm not attacking the nation of Israel. I'm just wondering what the plan is. So I've been hearing my whole life how bad the PA is. Okay, great. But what's the plan here? So they're moving all these Americans, people from around the world, into settlements subsidized by Americans in the West Bank. Now, they're not moving them from around the world to the settlements. They're people who make Aliyah. They come.

I'm just saying. And these are Israelis who live in Israel. Well, there are a lot of people who come. And area of sea is Israel. Okay. Okay. But does it remain a territory under military control forever? Does it just become part of the state?

You're talking about the Palestinian Authority? Correct. That's the big question. Do you believe in the two-state solution? And if you do, I would show you a map, and I would ask you, because this is... I don't know. I don't know what I think. I just think you need to treat people like human beings, and that's not happening, obviously.

And that would be you don't glorify their killing. Yeah, let them go to their church if they want. See the yellow parts? Yeah. That's Palestinian Authority. The tan parts, that's area B. That's the area that is mixed. Israel has military authority, but the Palestinians can live anywhere they want to in there.

And the blue area, that's area C. Area C is Israel. And Israelis can live in Israel. That's what it is. Now, when people say they want a two-state solution, I love to show them a map like this. And I ask them, where does that state line up? There is no continuous way in which it works. You know, we've got a lot of states in the United States that need help, so I'm not going to weigh in other people's states, to be totally honest.

I just don't want to pay for it anymore and just want to fix our own country. But let me ask you one last question, which is how Christians are treated in Jerusalem. I've talked to so many who've been spit on. Really? So many? How many? Well, two yesterday. Two, okay.

Both Catholic clergy and both told me the same thing. Anglican clergy, I interviewed. I just had dinner recently with a Greek patriarch. Well, there have been a million stories about this. Yeah, I know. There are instances where Christians get heckled. Usually it's people who are wearing clerical robes and they're wearing crosses and it shouldn't happen. It's horrible.

It's as bad for that to happen as it is to spit on somebody wearing a Kippa in New York City. Great. Terrible. It's horrible. And actually, I should, to be fair, there is, and I just learned this, a Jewish-Israeli group that keeps track of Christians being spit on in Jerusalem because they're offended by it. And God bless them for keeping track and for being offended by it. But there are an awful lot of examples of that. And my question to you, you're against it, of course, you're Christian clergy.

Horribly against it. What is that? So is the prime minister, the president, the foreign minister. So is. I get it. I think every decent thinking person is horrible. Why are they spitting? It's very limited.

It's very, very isolated. But for the most part, you know what? As Christians, we have freedom of movement here. Tucker, I go to church every Sunday. I play bass guitar in my church band. I get it. I don't get hassled being a Christian. Everyone here knows I'm the first evangelical.

to be ambassador to Israel? Do you think they hate me here? No. Are evangelicals recognized by the state of Israel? Yeah. They are? Yeah. Okay. And welcomed and appreciated. No, but like as a religious, like, are there evangelical churches in Israel? My gosh, yes. There's 184,000 Christians in Israel. I know, I know. And much larger than... But there are churches that are non-denominational evangelical here. Of course. There are, and it ranges. from when you say non-denominational, some of them are affiliated Baptist Assembly of God. Some of them are truly non-denominational, Pentecostal. Some are messianic churches. Right.

Where most of the people are ethnically Jewish, but they are messianic. They believe in Jesus. There are a lot of those churches, and they're spread out all over Israel. So, but there's freedom. Oh, I know a lot of Christians in Israel, by the way, yes. And as I said, I really hope I can come back and talk to more. and come to church with me. Oh, I definitely would like that. And I mean it too. Why would people spit on, like, where does that come from?

I think it's from an evil heart. Yeah. What else would it be? I agree. I mean, I don't think anybody would ever spit on another person, even if it was, you know, I don't care what a person's religion is or what a person's nationality is. I don't hate anybody. I wouldn't spit on anybody.

I wouldn't heckle anyone. And I find it repulsive. Nothing about it is defensible. I will say that the one, this was off camera, but I interviewed this Christian leader here, and I said, oh, that's so awful. And he goes, you know, I feel blessed because Jesus was spit on. And it's an opportunity for humility for me. And I thought, wow, that's a Christian.

Let me say this. I've been coming in and out of Jerusalem and Israel for 50, well, soon to be 53 years. Before I came as ambassador, I made over 100 trips here. I've never been spat on. I've never had someone yell at me. I've never had an experience where I felt uncomfortable or that I was unwelcome. If you spit on someone wearing a yarmica in New York City, you go right to jail. They would not put up with that for one second.

And they do put up with it here because it still happens. I'm not sure they do go to jail in New York City. They should. And they should go to jail here. I'm against it. They should go to jail here. Amen. So there were all these Christian ministers who were brought up.

over here, evangelicals in December. And I think mostly to attack me, but also probably they had other... Oh, they really weren't here to attack you. I'm just joking. They were attacking me. But whatever. Yeah. And, but they were flown over by the state, the state paid for it, and they had a conference here.

I got one of the guides that they received when they arrived, and I think it's real. And it says, don't preach about Jesus when you're on Israel. We don't, we don't allow that. Don't do that. Really? Yeah. Why would a Christian minister agree not to preach about Jesus? I'm not sure because I've never heard someone tell another Christian minister not to do that. Interesting. Good. Well, I was totally baffled. What would be the purpose of going to church as a Christian if you didn't talk about Jesus here?

I wouldn't agree more. Thank you. I can assure you that the church I attend, we talk about Jesus. I mean, we pray in the name of Jesus. No, no. I don't get it. To anyone else outside the church. Are you allowed? Like, could I stand on the corner and just tell people about Jesus here? You could. I'm not saying you'd get applause or that people. Right, that's fine. But I'm saying there are people that.

There's no law against that, though. Not that I'm aware of. The only laws that I know of, you can't proselytize someone under the age of 18 and you cannot offer people things of value in order to cause them to listen to your presentation. For example, I can't say, hey, for $10, would you let me give you this gospel track? and scream at you. Can't do that. I don't know if it's enforced. I'm not sure. I don't ever hear anyone arrested for it. But there's no law against just like preaching to people. Walk down to the old city. You'll hear people, you know, out there preaching on the street. Now, are they effective?

I don't know. I'm not sure that people are stopping and falling on their knees and saying, this is what I've been waiting for. I don't know. But what I'm telling you is that the idea that you can't say it, I know that there are places in the rest of this region, where you can't do that. For sure. Yeah. Qatar, you can't wear a cross in public. For sure.

You can't pray in public. Christian prayer. I see a lot of people wearing crosses in Qatar, but I don't know. I have, but I don't know what the laws are. Yeah. In Saudi Arabia? Don't think so. I doubt it.

The one place is an exception is the Emirates. And I love those folks because they are so progressive and they're doing so many things to change the template of things. They have an Abraham house that is a combination synagogue, church, and mosque. That's pretty amazing, isn't it? That they have the same building and they use it for all three of the major religions of the world. And I think that's incredible. But they're really trying to do things that are beyond what anyone else in the region. They change their textbooks.

They teach that Israel is not a nation they should hate or seek to an eye. They've done some remarkable things. Have you been following all this stuff in the, I agree with that. They have a Hindu temple in Abu Dhabi. You've been following all this like hate the Muslim stuff going on in the United States on the right? I hear some of it and it's unpleasant. We shouldn't hate anybody. Amen.

Yeah, it's not a good thing. Hate is an evil thing. Yeah, I don't, you know, sometimes you say, I don't support child killing. Okay, I don't either, but I don't support hate in any form. I think it's a horrible thing. That is such a great standard, and I want to hold myself to that. And thank you for saying that out loud. I don't hate you.

I hope not. Governor, ambassador, thank you very much for spending all this time. I appreciate it. I'm glad you came. Please come back. I will go with me to some places and to church. I want you to see that as Christians, we're pretty free here. Amen.

Appreciate it. Thank you. And welcome.