The Tucker Carlson Show - Tucker on What the Violent ICE Protests Are Really About and What It Means for White America

Episode Date: January 22, 2026

Armed enforcers of the Great Replacement swarm ICE officers in Minneapolis. A report from the scene. Paid partnerships with: Amazon MGM Studios: Tickets for Melania are now available. Exclusively in theaters January 30: http://melaniamovie.com Dutch: Get $50 a year for vet care with Tucker50 at https://dutch.com/tucker Battalion Metals: Shop fair-priced gold and silver. Gain clarity and confidence in your financial future at https://battalionmetals.com/tucker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Good evening. The single biggest political issue divide in the United States right now is ICE. Minneapolis is a disaster tonight. There is widespread violence, mob violence. There is political turmoil chaos. Really, we're going to be going live there in a moment. Next order, who's been covering all this and shot some amazing video. We'll speak to one of the pastors of the church that was invaded by lunatics, by anti-ice activists. It really is the mobilizing force on the left, and it's the focus of much of the right. And it's about a lot of different things. On the surface, it's about, of course, who has authority over the borders. Does federal authority mean anything?

It's about law enforcement. To what extent can you pursue criminals in your own country? It's, of course, about immigration. ICE standing for immigration and customs enforcement, of course. But big picture, it's about something. much bigger, and that's why it's become such a passionate divide. The battle over ice is really a battle over demographic change in the United States. Who gets to live here? Which is always and everywhere, the fundamental question in any country. Who lives there? Who are these people? What are

they like? And in our country, that question has basically not been addressed out loud for the past 60 years, even as the population of the United States has changed dramatically. And that's one of the reasons the battle over ice and its jurisdiction and what to do with all the people living in the United States illegally has become so passionate and so fraught because no one is saying out loud what exactly this is about. And so as a first step to making things better, it would help to see things clearly. So let's talk about what exactly is going on in the United States.

and why it's led to the battles in, say, Minneapolis. What's happening in the United States is a wholesale change of who lives here. Total demographic change. Now, some have called this replacement. And the question is, is it really replacement? So we thought we would look it up. If you were someone following along at home trying to figure out, you know, what is everyone so mad about?

What is this great replacement theory? You might go, as almost everybody does, first to Google and just type in great replacement theory and AI would come up with the following result. This is hot off Google AI. Here's what it says if you look up Great Replacement Theory on Google. We're quoting. The Great Replacement Theory is a debunked, meaning untrue, far right, meaning Nazi, white nationalist, meaning racist, conspiracy, claiming that white populations, particularly in Europe and the U.S., are being deliberately replaced by non-white immigrants and minorities, often orchestrated by replaceist elites leading to demographic shifts and cultural erosion, fueling extremist violence

and anti-immigrant sentiment. That's one sentence, by the way, a run-on sentence, but it is AI. And it's quite a sentence. And it tells you point blank, this is not true. Anyone who believes in it is deranged and is stoking violence, simply by believing in it. And it goes on to explain how this works. The theory, quote, posits that mass migration declining white birth rates and political agendas by elites are intentionally replacing white populations.

It has inspired numerous acts of mass murder, violence, with perpetrators often citing this theory. Research shows that endorsers of the great replacement theory often hold anti-social traits, authoritarian views, and negative attitudes toward minorities and immigrants. In other words, once again, believing that the population of this or any other country is being manipulated by people in power and the people who are born here are being replaced by people who weren't believing that is not only wrong, it's misinformation, it's been debunked, it's also dangerous. You can kill people by believing that. Well, how does that work exactly?

It doesn't sound like a cool, objective analysis of the theory of replacement. It sounds instead like, well, a political screen, but maybe even more than that, it sounds like an article of religious faith. You're not allowed to believe this. Only bad people believe it. It's apostasy. It could lead to death believing that. And that seemed a little emotional for us. So we decided instead to consult the science because, obviously, we believe the science. And the science, as always, begins with numbers, things that are quantifiable, that are measurable. And one of the ways we know the truth about who lives here is through the census, taken every 10 years, it's in the Constitution, and that provides us not precise numbers, but a pretty

accurate general picture most of the time and certainly overtime of who lives here. So let's start, because it's a easy and obvious place to start, at the beginning of the post-war era, peak America, 1950, the first post-war census. And I think everyone would agree, whether they're right or wrong, that this is a period remembered as the best time in America, 1950. The United States is an industrial power. It's the leader of the West, if not really the world. And America domestically is pretty harmonious, thriving, happy. Let's take a look at who lived in America in 1950.

And let's do that by taking a closer look. at the population of the top six cities, which at the time were, and this tells you a lot right here, New York was number one, Chicago was number two, Philadelphia was number three, Los Angeles number four, Detroit, number five, Baltimore number six. Kind of hard to imagine, but in 1950, not that long ago, within living memory, those were the numbers. So here's what they were. The biggest city in the United States then and now is New York City. New York City in 1950 was 90% white.

71 million New Yorkers out of 7.9 million were white. Chicago in 1950 was 86% white. Philadelphia, over 80%. Los Angeles, 94% white. 94% white, that's almost an ethno state, actually, at that point. Detroit, Detroit, Michigan, home of 4 GM and Chrysler, 84% white. Baltimore, steel and shipping capital of the Mid-Atlantic, 76% white. that was 1950. You know people who are alive in 1950. Maybe you were. Here are the numbers today.

Baltimore, 27% white. Detroit, about 10% white, down from 84. Los Angeles, again, 94%. About 37% weight. Now, Philadelphia, 36%, Chicago, less than 30%. And New York City, again, the biggest city in the country, is now around 30% white. down from 90% in 1950. So you think to yourself, well, maybe these cities have just shrunk, and a lot of them have, Baltimore, Detroit, Philadelphia, Chicago, all much smaller than they were. What's interesting is that New York is bigger than it was, about a million people more live in New York than they did in 1950, and yet the proportion of whites has declined, well, from 90% to 30, but so is the absolute number.

New York has lost about four million white people, even as it gained a million people in population. What is that? Now, in some of these cities, there are economic reasons for this, right? A lot of African Americans moved up from the south to work at the auto plants in Detroit, to work at the harbor, at the shipyards of steel plant in Baltimore, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But not all of it. And in New York City, almost all the demographic change is the result of immigration. And that began in 1965, which is definitely within living memory of a lot of people watching this right now.

So that's another and very long way of saying the great replacement is not only real, it's the realest thing there is. And it's provably true. So why would they go out of their way to tell you it's a debunked, far-right. racist conspiracy theory believed in only by anti-social lunatics who commit mass murder. Well, probably because it's true. And in telling you that, whoever wrote that, you have to ask yourself who would write that and why. And it's not just, of course, an AI and Google or Wikipedia.

It's everywhere. There's almost nobody who admits that that's true, even though it's provably true. It's indisputably true. In fact, there's a list on Wikipedia of all the people who believe in it. criminals who believe this could possibly be true. Apparently, people who don't have access to census numbers don't believe it's true, but, you know, the 19 figures in American public life who do have access to the census numbers somehow believe this is true.

But they're telling you it's not. But what they're leaving out, of course, is that demographic change is a constant through history. And it is almost always mass demographic change, turnover replacement. is almost always the result of human choice. Populations change because leaders decide they should change. Population demographics, the question of who lives within the borders of a country, is not only a concern of leaders, of governments,

it is the main concern. It's the main thing they think about. So the rest of us imagine that the government concerns itself with collecting taxes, schools, national defense, and those are all concerns, but we are thinking way too small. The people who run countries who map out the future of civilizations think in much larger terms than the rest of us. This is not a guess, by the way. This is true.

They think in terms of who lives here, what do they like, how many of them are there? And there are plenty of levers that they can move to change those numbers, obvious and not so obvious, war being the most obvious, killing people, unleashing pandemics on them, obvious. Less obvious? Encouraging different ways of living. Encourging birth control or abortion. Scambling the genders. Encouraging women to work outside the home has one of the largest effects on demographics, of course, because women who work during childbearing years are much less likely to have lots of children. In fact, many won't have any children, and that has proven true over time across the world. We're excited to tell you about a new project from Amazon MGM called Melania. For years,

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So why would governments do this? Well, that's kind of the more complex question. They do it. They've always done it. They would do it for a couple of reasons. One, to meet a short-term economic goal, or even a long-term economic goal. Short-term might be, who's going to pick the grapes in California. Oh, better get some Mexicans.

Understandable. Most people are familiar with that. Others might be longer-term adjustments to changes that no one can really control. Like AI, oh, wait a second, we're not going to need as many people here because machines are going to do a lot of the work. How are we going to support these people? That might be another reason. And of course, there might be darker motives or more basic motives, like the innate human desire to conquer other people to replace your group with my group. That's not a conspiracy theory.

That's the entire story of history. Mass movements of people by force has been a constant since the Babylonian captivity and probably before, unrecorded. That is the story of history. And it's all around us, but we don't even notice. The history of Ireland is that story. Ireland, which is an island near England, was after Henry VIII Catholic. England was Protestant. The English took over Ireland.

Ireland, it was their colony. And in order to make it more compliant and to control the people there and to impose their culture on a foreign peoples, they moved many thousands of foreigners into Ireland. There were the Anglo-Irish or Brits who moved to Ireland. That was the ruling class of the country. There were these Scots-Irish who were moved from Scotland into Ireland. And in so doing, a Protestant region of the country was created called Ulster. It's still there. It's still at least half-Protestant. And at one point, the Brits moved the Huguenots in the 17th century from France. They were a mostly forgotten group now, but they were expelled from France during the series of Catholic Protestant religious conflicts that swept through Europe after Martin Luther. And the Brits said, well, I've got an idea. Why don't you move to Ireland? And they move them to Ireland, mostly to Dublin. Why? To change the demographic balance. of Ireland to make it easier to subdue and to rub the noses of the people in their culture, to replace the culture, the customs, the religion of the indigenous population because they could.

That's why. That's what people have done it throughout history. And by the way, then they went farther in Ireland, not to dwell in Ireland, but it's very interesting, actually. Not only did they move all kinds of foreigners into Ireland to change the demographic mix to affect a great replacement, they began to change the national monuments. Oh, that's weird. Have you seen that before? St. Patrick's Cathedral in the middle of Dublin, got to be one of the biggest Catholic shrines in Ireland. They made it Anglican. No longer Catholic. It's Anglican now. Jonathan Swift preached there, actually, an Anglo-Irishman. And so did many others. But in the center of this Catholic country, the colonial power moved non-indigenous people in in order to make the case.

This is ours now. And you see that everywhere. When the street across the White House gets repainted in Black Lives Matter colors, it's kind of a species of that, right? When the Confederate statues are torn down in Richmond in New Orleans, is it really an effort to improve the lives of local black people? No. Of course, it didn't work.

It didn't have any effect. No, it was a matter of cultural imperialism. We run this now. Down with your monuments, up with ours. It's Pride Week. It is the most recognizable pattern in history. It's one people conquering another. It's what the Mongols did in the 13th and 14th century.

They swept through China. They swept all the way to Europe, of course, across Russia famously. And they completely changed the populations of, half the world. It was the largest empire in history by landmass. And along the way, they also did something that no one likes to talk about. They raped a lot of women. Why did they do that? Well, partly to spread their genetics. Just a fact. We can say this because it was the Mongols. It was a long time ago. Genghis Khan, the head Mongol, the creator of that empire, has 16 million living descendants in the world today. 16 million.

That tells you what a prolific rapist he was. But why did he do that? So he would have 16 million descendants. Of course, the rape of Berlin after the war, the rape of Nan King at the beginning of the war, untold mass rapes through history. These are acts of violence and brutality and subjugation, of course, but they're also acts of demographic change.

That's what they are. Not endorsing that, decrying it. It's disgusting. But it's also real. and it's happened throughout history. One people conquering another. And these are decisions not made organically, not like millions of people get together and decide,

let's change the demographics of a continent, a region, let's destroy a people. These are decisions made by leaders each and every single time. China takes Tibet. What's the first thing to do? Move Han Chinese into Tibet. Why do they do? that? Well, to subjugate, to make a point, ours is a superior culture to yours, but also to

control. Once again, this is not a conspiracy theory. This is the story of recorded history, and it's a story of the present day. Obviously, and only a country completely divorced from history, from human nature, from reality itself, could ever fall for, ooh, it's a debunked far right white nationalist conspiracy theory. Really? No, it's not. It's just the opposite. It's the realest thing that ever happened. And that's not even a judgment. It's just a fact. When you want to control a place, you change the demographics. In 1947, Mandate Palestine, what's now Israel, was about 80% Arab. The next year was what, like 32% Arab.

The next year after the War of Independence in 1948. I'm not attacking anyone at all. But the point is, Israel was a majority Jewish country on day one. That was the whole point of displacing everybody. We're here now. You're gone. It was a great replacement. not casting aspersions, just saying that all wars are in effect that.

They're all that way, every one of them, including the one that we're living through that is undeclared that no one will admit is happening because it's a conspiracy theory, but it's the realest thing that ever happened. So then we get to the question of motive, like, why is this happening? Why would you do that? Why would you want to do that? Why would you want to hurt people and erase them? well the most obvious motive would be power and that's usually the motive or one of the motives and in this

country it's really clear that one of the reasons this is happening is because the democratic party and their overlords who are not partisan they're just the biggest shareholders in the country the richest people in the country would like to have uncontested power and so if you let in tens of millions of immigrants, illegal aliens, over 60 years, you're probably going to reach a point where they just openly participate in the political system, where they get a vote, thereby diluting, replacing the voters who don't vote for you. This is clearly the plan. It's always been the plan, part of the plan.

and Stacey Abrams, who was a perennial candidate in Georgia and somehow very famous, not exactly clear why, but had one sort of unique talent, she was dumb enough to say this out loud. Here's Stacey Abrams in 2018. The blue wave is African American. It's white, it's Latino, it's Asian Pacific Islander. It is disabled. It is differently abled. It is LGBTQ.

It is law enforcement. It is veterans. Yes. It is made up of those who've been told that they are not worthy of being here. Yes. It is comprised of those who are documented and undocumented. Yes. She's rolling.

She's trying to remember who's in the coalition. The ableds. What do we call them crippled? No, no, no. Differently abled. Differently abled. She's like going through the litany. White, black, Latino, Pacific.

Islander, people from Fiji, the gays, sorry, LBGTPQ, questioning, whatever. The documented, the undocumented. Oh, wait a second, Stacey Abrams. Did you just say that illegal aliens are going to vote in elections, federal elections? I think that's against the law. No, whatever. You can't stop her. It's Stacey Abrams.

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Why would you five years ago at the beginning of the Biden administration when you know, because you're promoting it, that AI is right around the corner and we're going to need a lot less labor really, really soon. And we're talking about, oh, wow, I guess we're going to have to give people guaranteed income because they're just going to have nothing to do all day at that exact. at that exact moment, why would you move in tens of millions of low-skilled laborers with eighth-grade education? It's like, what are they going to do? No one even addressed the question because it had nothing to do with why they were brought in.

It wasn't to help the United States. And of course, mass migration has not helped the United States. One very obvious point that lingers in the air, you don't even want to address it because it's so depressing, is how are those six cities we mentioned at the outset doing today in 2026? the six biggest cities in the country in 1950. Again, it was New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Detroit, Philadelphia, Baltimore. I mean, they're nice places in some of those cities. Some of them are just slums, actually. And there are complicated reasons why manufacturing died.

Some of those are big manufacturing hubs, of course. Immigration is not the only reason. Nothing is ever the only reason. reason. But all of those cities were completely changed by immigration and they all got way worse, much worse. Like much, much worse. Philadelphia, really? Baltimore, Detroit. So it didn't help. And in some places, like Los Angeles, it just destroyed the city completely and destroyed the state. Completely destroyed the state. You want to know what's wrong with California? Too much immigration. It was an amazing state in 1980. I remember it well. You wouldn't want to live there now.

and because the governor is like a white liberal, you sort of forget that the people live in California look nothing like the people who live there in 1980 at all when it was the least corrupt and most functional state with the best schools and the lowest poverty rate and now is more poverty than any state. It's got more immigrants in any state. There's just a one-to-one.

So, and it's not an attack on the immigrants at all, many of whom are hardworking and nice, some of whom are not hardworking or nice, but a lot of them are. Latin immigrants tend to be pretty great when you know them. Enthusiastic participants in the economy. But taken as a whole, immigration totally destroyed California. Just flat out.

There's no other factor. Meaningful factor. That's the single biggest factor in the destruction of California. And you're ordered to pretend that didn't happen. Oh, but it did happen. And one of the facts was, as noted, it gave Democrats complete control over the state. It's a one-party state, period. And you often run into Republicans from Santa Barbara or Orange County or up near Mount Shasta from Reading.

You know, and they're as conservative as anybody who's ever met in your life. There's some real right wingers in California, but they have no say in anything because they control nothing because of immigration. It's literally that simple. So it works. And that model will be repeated unless someone puts the brakes on immediately across the country. So there are 14 states plus D.C. as of tonight, that have no voter ID laws. And in some places, you're not allowed to ask for voter ID. It's flat out.

But in 14 states, you need no identification in order to vote. Why is that? Well, so illegals can vote. Literally that's simple. It's not more complicated than that. So illegals can vote. And that means you have no power if you're a Native-born American, if you're an actual citizen in the country.

Because your vote is being canceled and in places like California completely overwhelmed by people who aren't from here with no right to vote, but they're voting anyway. And what's interesting is that of the... the 14 states with no voter ID law, three are in the top five biggest states by population. Three out of our top five biggest states have no voter ID law. That's enough to make those states Democrat. By the way, for the record, those would be California, number one in all categories, Illinois and Pennsylvania, have no voter ID. So that's enough to swing a presidential election. sorry, it is.

And there's no way to stop it unless you were to ban and then enforce voting with no ID. You'd have to enforce it. But at this point, we're not enforcing much, and we'll show you how little we're enforcing in just a minute. No one is enforcing the law in a lot of parts of the country. It's becoming, in fact, an insurrection. And we'll show you that in a minute. But to the second motive here, which is inescapable, and it's almost, it is uncomfortable

to talk about, but it is the subtext behind a lot of this, is racial. triumphalism is hatred, is loathing for the people being replaced, which doesn't make intuitive sense. Why would you be mad at people you're replacing? Well, it's not clear. There are obviously spiritual components here too, which probably no mortal understands, but they're real, they're evident. What is this? Why would you do that? Why would you make, would you totally change the population of Australia, New Zealand? Why would you totally change Canada? Great Britain. Every English-speaking white country is becoming non-white at very high speed, faster than any time probably since the Mongol invasions. So why would you do that? And what happens when you do that? Well, it's interesting,

and this is a feature of human nature, and not just white, black, Hispanic, it's probably all races, but this is just true. Former majorities don't get treated well. But you really can't think of a case where a people has gone from majority to minority and then was treated well. It just kind of hasn't happened, including in this country, by the way, the American Indians, not treated well. Carted off to Oklahoma. I had to walk, actually. No carts. What happened to the white minority in Zimbabwe?

They voluntarily relinquished power. Then they were killed. South Africa, they're in the process of being killed. They voluntarily, once again, voluntarily relinquished power. They had nuclear weapons in 1994. Give up the nuclear weapons, gave up power, went to a majority rule system. It was a peaceful transition to Clerca Mandela. You remember the scenes from 1994?

How'd that end? Well, it's not over yet, but the persecution of the people formerly in power began very, very quickly. How did it wind up for the Palestinians? As noted, they were 80% of Israel in 1947, 30% in 1948. How's it gone for them since? not well. A lot have been killed. And it's complicated.

They did bad things too. By the way, the Indians scalped a lot of people, and apartheid was bad. I mean, there are lots of lenses through which you could view this. But if you stand back, former majorities who become minorities tend to be killed. You hope that's not true. But it seems to be.

And it's especially distressing. when you look at the attitude of people in the United States who are pushing for mass demographic change, and just to put a tighter focus on it, people who are pushing for an end to the white majority. Oh, it's white supremacist to say that. No, it's not. It's an acknowledgement of reality. And by the way, if you're looking for hatred, it's not a lot of white supremacists, well, even visible in public. where are all these white supremacists we keep hearing about? But the people who are concerned about total demographic change don't seem like the hateful ones.

It's the people espousing it who have a weird gleam in their eye and a detectable loathing in their voice. And very often, and this may be the darkest feature of it, it's not just hatred, it's self-hatred. And keep in mind that anyone who will hate himself will have no problem at all hating and hurting you. Here's Nancy Pelosi a few years ago. Keep in mind, she was the Speaker of the House, third in line to the presidency. And this is part of a speech she gave on the House floor about demographic change. Watch this. I'm reminded of my own grandson. He's Irish, English, whatever, and Italian-American. He's the mix.

But he looks more like the other side of the family show. He always says, And when he had his sixth birthday, sixth birthday, he had a very close friend whose name is Antonio, who's from Guatemala. And he has beautiful tan skin, beautiful brown eyes and the rest. And this was such a proud day for me, because when my grandson blew out the candles on his cake, they said, did you make a wish? And he said, yes, I made a wish.

He said, well, what is your wish? She said, I wish I had brown skin and brown eyes like Antonio. So beautiful. So beautiful. The beauty is in the mix. The face of the future for our country is all-American. And that has many versions. Imagine saying that.

I mean, she's obviously a subgenius, hasn't thought this through. But this is her own grandson. And he turns to her and says, Grandma, I wish I wasn't born white. I wish I was born with different eye color, different skin tone. I wish it was something that I'm not. I wish God didn't make me this way. Imagine if your own grandson said that you would break your heart.

It would break your heart. And by the way, it's only on this topic. I wish I wasn't white that that's okay. If her grandson had said, grandma, I wish I wasn't gay, she would have smacked him in the face with a ruler. You were born gay. Enjoy it. But when he says, I wish I wasn't white,

she says, you're right. It's good to want to be Antonio and not be yourself, not be what God made you. Her own grandson. She'd been black and gotten up and said, you know, my grandson said to me, my granddaughter had a white Barbie doll and said, Grandma, I wish I had blonde hair and blue eyes. All of us would say, well, that's awful. God made you like this. It's sad to want to be something that you're not. you should be comfortable with the way you were made. Isn't that a kind of foundational modern American belief? Except when you're white, it's beautiful when you hate yourself. That's what she's saying.

That's what she said on the house floor. She became the speaker of the house twice. So she speaks not simply for herself, but for a lot of people, including a lot of whites like her. And by the way, that's not compassion. That's hatred.

That's saying to a six-year-old, no, you were born the wrong way. You are fundamentally flawed. There's nothing you can do about it. You're not as good as Antonio. Okay. There's hatred. That is hatred.

And it expresses itself. By the way, Nancy Pelosi is from Baltimore. And she grew up there when it was 85% white. How was it now? She doesn't go back very often, apparently. Things around the world are moving so fast right now. It's impossible to keep up with all of the changes. But we do know that when those changes happen,

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But in New York City, which went from 90 to 30 from 1950 to present, probably less than 30, for real, the new mayor, everyone's focused on his foreign policy views. How does he feel about Israel? Who cares? How does he feel about white Americans? Well, we know because he says, well, I'm going to tax him more because they're white. The new head, his new rental authority lady said recently, white people own too much. They should rent like everyone else. Really? That's not justice. That's not equity. That's hatred. That's undisguised hostility toward people for how they look. But because they are increasingly a defeated people, that's not only okay, it's encouraged. You don't want to be on the wrong side of that.

Not because you're a white supremacist and love only white people. That's insane. God made every person. Every human being was created by God, period. It's not a matter of loving only people who look like you, loving only whites or blacks or whatever. it's a matter of not hating people on the basis of how they were born. But these dynamics don't change much because there's something in people that wants to crush and humiliate the vanquished.

Every single time. And you'd like to think that this nation is exceptional in the sense that that wouldn't happen here, but there's no evidence of it at all. As whites become a smaller proportion of the U.S. population, every year, louder become the calls to hate whites. More open becomes the hatred, the hostility, the threats of violence. Crimes against white people are like, well, I don't know. The perpetrator was black.

You're white. Every single American knows. Those crimes are not punished as vigorously or as harshly as the reverse. Everyone knows that and accepts it. Oh, big mistake to accept that. if there's no such thing as equality under the law, if you can be punished more lightly or more severely based on your race, your ethnicity, your religion, we're all in trouble, all of us.

First of all, we're all degraded because that's the definition of immoral. Blood guilt is not real, despite what our leaders tell us. And it's totally possible that you and your group, your community, are going to wind up on the wrong side of that someday. For right now, it's very obvious that whites are on the wrong side of that. And you can tell by the behavior of the people at the ICE protest. So this was Minneapolis just a couple of nights ago. This is a bunch of, of course, primarily white, because Minneapolis, one of the last big cities in America with a size of a white population, running into a church and threatening the parishioners in the church.

And you've probably seen footage of this, but listen carefully to the clip you're about to hear. And you can hear effectively racial epithets aimed at white people. So two things are going on here. One is the protesters, of course, hate Christianity. And they hate whites, white Christians. Now, that's familiar. Very familiar. There's a lot of hatred toward white Christians.

Now, where does that come from? It's obviously spiritual at its root, like everything. hard to understand exactly why that group is targeted around the world, but we know that it is. Certainly, that's one of the primary motives in going to war against Russia, destroying Ukraine, completely destroyed. Ukraine was destroyed by the West, by the way. It was destroyed by Washington and Brussels who pushed Russia into this war. They wanted this war.

They said they wanted this war. They got the war. very few of their people have been killed in the war, but hundreds and hundreds, but likely over a million, Ukrainians have been killed in this war. You think Ukraine will be majority Ukrainian in 100 years? You think the land in Ukraine will be owned by Ukrainians in 20 years? No, of course not. You won't be Russia that did that. It'll be the West.

And you have to wonder why. Well, the fact that Ukraine was white and Christian, one of the last big concentration. of white Christians on the planet, maybe that has something to do with it? Of course it did. Obviously. That's not a far-right conspiracy theory. It's the truth. So the same attitudes that did that, that are at work in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and very much here in the United States, were sort of distilled in the clip you're about to see from a church a couple of days ago in Minneapolis. Watch this. René Good. René Good. Where are you? Where are your people?

Why are you not at Whipple every day fighting for the humanity, standing for our people? Where are you? You drink your coffee, you got your jewelry, you have your nice clothes, but what do you do? What do you do to stand for your Somalia and Latino communities? I'm not going to comment here. You have no comment, exactly. These comfortable white people who are living lavish, comfortable lives while children are dragged into concentration camps, you're living real life, nice lives with your lattes, doing absolutely nothing for your Latino and Somerville.

Somali brothers and sisters. You come here to a man wearing a suit. Is a preacher? Did Jesus wear a suit? Did Jesus profit off the words? No! Jesus would die within it. You do not touch me.

Touch me again and see what happens. You are a fake Christian. Why are you not standing with your Somalia Latino communities? Why do I not see you out at Whipple every day protesting this attack on humanity? Where are you? You're sinners. You're pretending to be Christians. But we know you live an easy life, don't you?

A very easy life while people are starving. Say. Man. He's that man capable of violence. Well, he's committing it, of course. Disrupting a church service, people who mean no one harm, who are committing no crime. We've done nothing wrong, screaming at him for being white Christians. That's it right there.

That's it right there. And you should know that that's not the last clip like that you're going to see, not just tonight, but in the future. because that's the animating spirit behind what you're watching. No one is making an economic case for mass migration. Nobody is making an economic case for keeping tens of millions of illegals in this country because there isn't an economic case for it. There is no case that begins with, let me tell you how this will make our country better. No one even makes that case.

The case they're making is we are replacing the people who found, this country who built the system for themselves, by the way, with a brand new people who have very little in common with those people. And why are we doing that? Because we hate those people. And it's not just deranged protesters who are making that case. So we're former CNN anchors. Here's Don Lemon, who was part of that protest. He was covering it in the way that journalists often cover events. They help organize those events. They're their foot soldiers. We're just covering it. Okay. Here's Don Lemon going on some podcast with angry middle-aged rich ladies to talk about how virtuous it is to scream at whites in Minneapolis. Watch this. There's a certain degree of racism there,

and there's a certain degree of entitlement. I think people who are, you know, in religious groups like that. It's not the type of Christianity that I practice, but I think that they're entitled and that that entitlement comes from a supremacy, a white supremacy. And they think that this country was built for them, that it is a Christian country when actually we left England because we wanted religious freedom. It's religious freedom, but only if you're a Christian and only if you're a white male. Huh? I mean, it's hard to, you don't ever want to take Don Lemon literally because he's disconnected from reality and he could say, well, actually, he's got a white boyfriend and he lives in the Hamptons. Who's entitled here? But it's fruitless and it diminishes you to rebut a

Don Lemon rant to some facelift lady on the specifics because the specifics don't matter because it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't need to make sense. All you need to understand is the spirit behind it, which is hate, hate and resentment and the desire for revenge. That's what this is. And there's no other explanation that anyone's even offered up other than you have an obligation to hurt yourself.

And so really it's time to just be completely honest. This is an act of hatred and aggression toward the population of the United States, American citizens, people who were born here, people whose grandparents were born here. They are hated by the people in charge and have been for a long time. And the plan, which is pretty close to completion, actually. It's not a distant goal. It's like almost here is to replace them, ready to. under them powerless, and if people like Don Lemon have any say over it, hurt them. Just listen to what they say.

You don't have to conspiracy theorize. Just open your eyes and listen, and you can tell what they have planned for you, because it's happened in a lot of places. It always happens. And so these are fights worth having, actually, because it's not about preserving racial purity. it's about preserving your country in recognizable form, preserving your life, and the lives of your children. If all of a sudden there were, you lived in a country where 60% of the people agreed

with Don Lemon, how do you think you'd do? Not well at all. And not only would you be stripped of your possessions, not only would your children be grounded into the dust, you'd be lectured as it happened. Lecture about how you deserved it. This is what you get for the sins of your ancestors. The blood guilt people would start lecturing you about it. You'd be treated like the Palestinians in Gaza. It's the same idea. It's the same idea. You're responsible for the sins of your ancestors because blood guilt is real. There couldn't be a more anti-Christian worldview than that. It's one of the reasons they hate Christians because they stand in the way. So because profound questions underlie this argument over ice, the stakes for us have suddenly become existential, and the behavior of the

people involved in this has become extraordinary. And all of this adds up to a pretty remarkable, pretty shocking scene tonight in Minneapolis, ignored by most people in the media, but not by Nick Sorter, who's a freelance journalist who's been just taking videos of what he sees. This is a video that he just shot of a group of friends of Don Lemons breaking into a law enforcement vehicle and stealing the weapons out of the back. It's about two minutes long. Watch this whole thing for a more precise sense of where we are right now. Oh my God. So you hate to. go right to the obvious and say storming of the Bastille, but whenever you've got a crowd of

violence-bent extremists stealing government weapons and running off into the night without being arrested, you have the potential for revolution and then great bloodshed in the aftermath of that. So it's almost so obvious it doesn't bear saying out loud, but we will anyway, because we love the obvious. You have to stop this now or else things will fall apart. Nick Sorder is the man who shot that video and he joins us now. Nick, can you, first of all, thank you for doing that. This is a true public service, I think, to bring this to the public. What did we just see? Can you give some context? Yeah, so Tucker, what I'll tell you is this happened not far from downtown Minneapolis. So there are police everywhere all the time, right?

I mean, it's a pretty concentrated area with police. And these riders had two hours, two hours to go through multiple FBI vehicles. There's another vehicle that was parked right behind this one where they were able, they had enough time and they weren't worried about Minneapolis police showing up. So they took a tow strap out of the back of a pickup truck, mounted it to and tied it around the weapons locker. in the other vehicle, mounted it to the pickup truck, and yanked it out that way. And they're not worried at all about any repercussions

from Minneapolis PD. As soon as it happened, I went over to Minneapolis PD who I figured out were about a block away from there, and I gave them the information. I gave them the description of the individual. I gave them the video. I let them take a picture of the person's face. I gave them the license plate number,

as well as the car that he was in. This guy that just stole not just a rifle, but a select fire rifle, an automatic rifle from an FBI vehicle. They chose not to go after the vehicle that they could see down the street. He hadn't even left yet. But these cowards that are at the higher ranks of MPD that are under people like Jacob Frye, who was basically mayor's soy boy, that's what I prefer to call him at this point, are they've been cucked. I don't know why else to say it, Tucker.

Are they, if you knew in a city in, let's say, rural Georgia that somebody just stole an automatic rifle and you see them in your sights, those sheriff's departments are going to go after them immediately. They're not going to let them get away. Not in Minneapolis. That's not what happens. They let them go out into the wild. And of course there were no legacy media networks there, not like ABC, NBC or anything. As soon as it gets a little dicey, they run away. So it's up to people like me in a disguise that have to go in there and film this.

There are no cops around. And Tucker, even if you did call 911, which I did multiple times, you get zero assistance. It doesn't matter the amount of death threats that are being screamed at you in the background on the call. When I got robbed the other day by a gang of Somalis, they stole over $1,000 worth of camera equipment from me. I called 911. They didn't ask me, are you in any danger right now? I was bleeding from the arm after being dragged down the street by the vehicle. No, the question they asked me was, are you white, Hispanic, black, or Somali?

That was one of their biggest concerns. And it still took them 30 minutes to come to the scene. But that's like my fourth 911 call in the past three weeks out in Minneapolis. And it's the first time they actually responded. So the fact that they responded in 30 minutes, I was actually surprised that they came out. I'm just shocked by everything you've just said. I do think we run the risk of misinterpreting people like Jacob Fry. Obviously, they're feminized.

Everything you said is true. They're craven. They're weak. But there's also a will to power there. I mean, this is Trotsky. This is the looting of the armory. This is the way that people like Fry, and there are many people like Fry, gain power, which is through violence.

It's through the mob. It's through mob action that they become more powerful. So it's not just that he can't stop it because he's too weak. He wants it just as the governor of the state of Minnesota and his creepy Winnie Mandela wife, you know, breathe deep the smell of burning tires during the George Floyd riots because revolution means power to them. And so it feels to me just from the footage that you shot that things are getting completely out of control.

They're totally out of control. And they have been for several weeks now. But this is exactly how Tim Waltz wants. it right now. I'm being totally upfront with you, Tucker. I truly believe this. This is the best case scenario for Tim Walts because what were we talking about? The reason that I was out there already when this shooting happened after the woman tried to run down an ice agent with her vehicle, I was already out there because we were talking about the Somali fraud. So the riots, the unrest in the streets, the assaults on ice agents, the just nonstop around the clock mayhem is the only

thing that has distracted everybody from continuing to be able to talk about the billions of dollars worth of fraud that have been enabled under Tim Walts. And we have to get back to that. We can't let that go away. But in the meantime, we also can't allow ICE agents who are taking rapists and child molesters and all of these violent illegals off the street. We can't just leave them hanging as well. And so I'm pretty much going to move to Minneapolis at this point. And that is not a place I want to be. It was such a nice city. It was famously a Swedish city, so I knew about it.

And it was a really, really nice place not that long ago. It's unrecognizable now. And immigration is one of the main reasons for that. It's just true. Can I ask, where were the FBI agents as their automatic weapons were being stolen? So that is a fantastic question, which I haven't really, you know, with the, like, I'm a big supporter of the FBI, I think they do great things. I don't like the fact that we're just abandoning federal vehicles in the road.

However, especially when there's a riot going on. However, these guys need some reinforcements out here, right? There are way, way too many rioters that just vastly outnumber federal agents. So that's why I keep calling for troops here. military police, federalizing the National Guard, even Insurrection Act, whatever you have to do to protect these guys, there aren't enough federal agents who, they got pushed back. They got forced all the way back, and that's why their vehicles ended up being outside of the perimeter at that point, because the vehicles were parked several blocks away from where the shooting happened, I believe last week when that illegal Venezuelan came out an agent with a shovel, right, and tried to hit him with the shovel, and they had to shoot them in the leg. And so once that perimeter shrunk because they don't have enough manpower that left those vehicles exposed. And, you know, the FBI, like, I'll give them a lot of credit for this because they know that Minneapolis PD is not going to do anything.

They're not going to protect independent journals like me when I was robbed by that Somali gang in the road. This is breaking here just now. Like they just, Cash Patel just called me like right before I did the hit on the show. So they found my camera. They have recovered the camera that was stolen. And that's only because they jumped in knowing that Minneapolis PD was going to do nothing about it. Because in reality, Minneapolis PD, they don't want people like me here because I'm documenting all of their failures. I'm documenting the fact that they are letting these third world invaders run free through the streets, committing billions of dollars worth of fraud in broad daylight and nothing is being done about it.

They hate people like me being here. And so I appreciate the FBI and Cash Patel stepping in and recovering that camera because it definitely wouldn't have been done by the city. They told me very specifically, Tucker, when the police finally responded after 30 minutes and I'm still sitting there bleeding from being dragged by a vehicle, they told me that I was in the wrong by being in that area and told me I had to leave that area because I had no business in that area. I have a hell of a lot more business in that area than anybody else that's there at this point.

Okay, this is the United States of America and I am not going to be terrorized out of leaving an American city because they want to surrender it to a bunch of third world pirates. I'm just not going to do it. Well, you have as much connection to Minneapolis really as Jacob Fry does. You know, he's not, he's not, he's not, or I think he's actually from suburban D.C. He's not from there at all. He's no roots there at all. He just showed up to foment revolution and to increase his own power, obviously. They've even improved the city in the slightest.

It's gotten much worse under his so-called leadership. So who do you call? I mean, if the, if FBI's vehicles get looted, there are no FBI agents there to protect their own vehicles. By the way, don't they have an obligation to make sure their automatic weapons don't wind up in the hands of criminals? Like, aren't they supposed to protect their own vehicle? They're the FBI.

No offense, I think you're letting them off a little lightly here. So here you have the FBI putting automatic weapons into our communities. Are we for that? I'm not. But how do you respond to that? Like, if you called FBI, hey, they stole your machine guns? You guys should get on this? Wake up, son.

Yeah, so I immediately went to the FBI and informed them as to what happened because I'm not even sure they would have known about it immediately. I mean, there were no, I'm the only one that got footage of the guy that stole it. And I mean, he was a little bit retarded, I guess I'm going to say, because he took his mask down and you can say he had Latin King's tattoos all over him. So, I mean, it was pretty easy to find the guy, and they found him by the next morning. But, yeah, I would say, like, the fact that we're, that federal law enforcement feels like they're in a position where they just can't go back in and guard these weapons that were in the back of the vehicle.

Yeah, that was definitely concerning to me. I cannot excuse that in any way, shape, or form. I know one of the weapons locker that was pulled out with a toe strap after two hours and that's another thing Tucker It was two hours that this was going on and nobody was doing anything about it That one one weapons locker was empty To the dismay of the rioters that it spent so long trying to get into it But you know I I I really want to stress the fact that these guys need more support they they need They need more assets on the ground to protect them while they're running operations right I mean these things

FBI agents that are out there like that FBI agents, DHS agents, they're not trained in crowd control, right? That's not their, not their job, but there are federal resources to handle that. And we're not using them. We're putting them on standby. And I'm sorry, like I'm a big supporter of the Trump administration. I think they're doing a fantastic job, but I'm a little worried that we're sleeping on what's actually going on in Minneapolis because some polls came out saying that, oh, well, some people don't have. approve of what's going on with ICE operations. And so like the administration is a little bit fearful,

I think I'll say, of deploying troops into the streets to restore order because they don't like the poll numbers that are coming out. And you know what? 80 million people voted for this to happen, right? I personally think maybe those poll numbers, if they're even real, some of the reason that people say they're not approving of the job that ICE is doing

is because they're not deporting enough people. Well, of course. Right? You go and talk to people in middle America. I'm from Kentucky originally, Tucker, right? So I gauge my dad, who's an HVAC technician down there and all his friends. Like, I try to get their opinion on just people that are just normal, everyday blue-collar people.

And they're all saying the same thing. Like they're not seeing any arrests. They're not seeing the deportations that they were asking for. So if the poll numbers are dropping, that has a lot to do with it, not because people think that ICE is being too aggressive. So I think those numbers are being misinterpreted. I mean, I've spent, I'm not attacking anyone, but the last three weeks hearing how we have the greatest military in America, which I mean in the world, which sounds right. We're all grateful. But like if the Maduro raid had been this pathetic, it would be a national shame.

Where are these people who are so skilled at taking out foreign leaders in our country? like one of our great cities is collapsing. They're stealing automatic weapons from federal agents and no one's doing anything about it. Like where are the people we pay $1.5 billion a year to maintain this empire? Where are they when we need them here? Trillion. Yeah, I think you bet $1.5 trillion, Tucker. I'm sorry.

Which is a lot. I can barely even pronounce the words, Nick. It's so much money. And you're like, okay, well, and I tweeted about this the other day, where I said, you know, because people are like, oh, well, why aren't you covering what's happening in Iran? Because I don't care. I don't care. We have a huge American city that's under siege actively.

I'm boots on the ground being attacked every single day by these people in the streets. And so are ICE agents. Like you saw today even, Bovino, the Border Patrol commander, is out there just trying to go get snacks at the Speedway. And they can't get out of the parking lot with this. team because there are 20 or 30 vehicles, literally 20 or 30, following him around, boxing them in and coming up and assaulting them. And so they have to use tear gas to get out of parking lots. Like, we need the manpower. I mean, how many tens of thousands of active duty troops do we have? Why do we need to worry about Iran right now? Why do we have to worry about

any other country in the world besides right here? I don't care about the politics anymore. I don't care if, you know, the left and the Democrat party are going to be like, oh my goodness, this is fascism by enforcing federal law as fascism. I don't care about that. I'm watching it in real time. I'm watching these guys that go out there every single day and put their lives on the line to deport these child rapists and literal murderers, people with murder warrants out of foreign countries

that were just letting out into the streets out here. They need the support. They're on a mission here, and we're not giving it to them. I know we put 1,500 active duty troops from Alaska on standby, and I believe another thousand of military police in North Carolina on standby as well for the Pentagon. They haven't been deployed yet. So my question is, what are we waiting for? What has to happen before we can deploy them?

Does an ice agent need to be killed? Does a journalist need to be killed? What needs to happen? What are we waiting on? It's a war zone out there every single day. Last question. I mean, ICE is there, FBI is there, military is not there. They're worried about Iran, apparently. So important Iran, so important. What about local police? I mean, Minneapolis is a major city, Minneapolis, St. Paul. Why aren't they restoring order? Like, have you seen local police respond to the rioters? No, and so that's one of the biggest issues that we see here. First of all, the reason that I'm doing this in front of a plane, great, background is because for hits that are longer than five minutes that are live, I have to do them

somewhere where nobody can find me because they will track me down and if I call the police, nothing will be done about it. I've written them off. They're totally useless and that's it. They're done. When it comes to what I was covering, just for example, in Louisiana, you have Governor Jeff Landry down there that is supporting the ICE operations that are happening down there in New Orleans, Shreveport, all the surrounding area, like across the entire state.

the entire state of Louisiana. And so they have state troopers with them. And those state troopers, I was not able to tail Bovino when I was trying to cover the deportations down there because they would pull me over for turning right on red without stopping or something behind the police vehicles. But in Minneapolis, St. Paul in the surrounding area, the police have been, they have been direct.

directed and ordered not to enforce any traffic laws or crimes that are committed in the presence of ICE or border patrol. Because they want these people running red lights at 80 miles an hour. It's so brazen now that they're live streaming these crimes that they're committing where they're, they don't have lights and sirens or anything. These activists that are posing as journalists, they wear press on their chest because, you know, that all of a sudden exempts them from. laws apparently. They're not real press. They're activists. And they're like passing buses, school buses, around blind corners at 80 miles an hour in residential neighborhoods, blowing through red lights and stuff. But police are being told not to pull them over,

not to interfere with the activists at all. I'm surprised nobody's been killed by it yet. But if they were just to do that, if they were just to enforce traffic laws, then you wouldn't get 20 to 30 cars following an individual. impeding ice and border patrol all the time. But the problem is that's what they want. They want them to be impeded. Is there, I mean, is the city, are people acknowledging this is happening? I mean, is the mayor giving press conferences about it, what they're going to do to fix it,

is the governor on television in Minnesota? Like, what, is this just, is anyone noticing this? Yeah, so they're definitely on TV, Mayor, Mayor Frey and Tim Walts, but they're saying, exactly what you would expect them to. They're talking about, if you see ICE, call 911. You had Chief O'Hara, the Minneapolis Police Chief, which I actually, I tried to ask him a few questions downtown the other day when he ordered all of his men

to retreat after some riots downtown. They literally came in, ran away. It's all on video, and they were fleeing. One cop tripped over his squad car because he was so frazzled by people throwing snowballs at him. And this guy, you can even see him, this leftist police chief on TV behind the mayor who would just said, yes, if you see ICE in the area, you called 911. So the 911 system is like totally useless at this point. If you're being stabbed to death in the street, mugged, whatever, in downtown Minneapolis, you're probably not going to get an officer responding to you anytime soon because the 911 lines are flooded with,

people calling 911 on ice because that's what they've been told to do. And so this inquiry by the DOJ into Mayor Frey and Tim Walts is totally fair, where they're conspiring to obstruct ICE operations. And, you know, how many innocent people have suffered because of that at this point over the past three weeks that this has been going on? But Tucker, you go outside of the Minneapolis-St. Paul area. the local jurisdictions there are more than willing to work with ICE. That's why you're not seeing large-scale clashes in the streets and stuff

because they're able to just go to the jails when these illegals are arrested by local sheriff's departments and stuff and they're able to pick them up. And that's it. And then they're deported. There's no need for these large-scale clashes. And the reason that it has to be done is because the federal government cannot back down and just not enforce federal immigration law because Mayor Frey and Tim Walts don't want to lose a huge portion of their voter base when a bunch of Somali fraudsters end up being denaturalized and deported. Yeah, I mean, the country will fall apart. We'll have Civil War if this continues.

By the way, it's January 21st. Imagine June 20. Imagine warm weather in one of the cold cities in America. Nick, thank you so much for your bravery and for telling us all that. and that was, I'm hard to shock, that shocked me. And Godspeed. I don't have to make anything up, Tucker. It's all on video. So, you know, not exaggerating here, but I appreciate you highlighting this story. Oh, we're grateful to.

Thank you. So we played you that footage of the protesters attacking people in church for being white and Christian. That was in St. Paul, I think. City's Church in St. Paul, Minnesota. Joe Rigney is one of the founders of that church, I believe, and I hope he'll pardon me if I've mangled any of his bio, but he joins us now. Joe, thanks so much for doing this. Tell us about what happened at that church.

Yeah, so that's my former church. I was a planting pastor at the church. I'm no longer there. I live in Idaho now for the last three years, but I was in Minnesota for 18 years, including through 2020 and all of the riots during that year. But yeah, what happened was is during a service, normal Christian worship service of a normal evangelical church, an organized, planned, and coordinated group of people entered the church during its second service. It was the first Sunday they'd had a second service. The church was growing, and so they had a second service, added one. So they'd already had one. The preacher had preached a message from the Gospel of John, Chapter 13, called Love One Another.

And as they were in the middle of the second service, a number of people who had been there for the first half of the service stood up and began moving towards the front doing what your video showed, chanting, various slogans, René Good, get out ice, all of those sort of things. And eventually, basically, commandeered the building, yelling and screaming at the parishioners, a number of whom fled very quickly because in the stay and age, don't know if it's a if this is going to be an active shooting situation right like you this is this is the sort of thing that happens these days and so people were trying to get the kids you know get the kids out get the kids safe and you saw my friend Jonathan Jonathan Parnell standing there saying shame on you to these activists these agitators and then being accosted by Don Lemon who is embedded with the group and coordinating with them and being harangued isn't this a great example of

constitutional liberty don't these people have a right to you know a symbol and and free speech as they are disrupting a Christian worship service on a Sunday morning so it was shocking I'm I'm across the country now but watching my friends and former congregants be attacked in this way simply you know because these activists are going to escalate from beyond what they've already been doing as your previous guest elaborated on. It's shocking, but it's predictable because all revolutions begin with killing the Christians, always. I wonder, is there a justification for this to go in and scream at kids in a church service during a sermon on love one another? I mean, what do you think is actually going on here? Well, the presenting cause is that one of the lay pastors

at the church works for ICE. He's a law enforcement officer, has been for 20-something years. He's a good man. He's a close friend of mine. I'm not even going to say his name because I don't want any more harassment for him and his family. But they had doxed him, discovered who he was, where he went to church, and decided to make an example. And so that was the presenting cause. But I think there's also an element of, as you said, testing the boundaries. How far can we go. How far can we escalate these things in order to to intimidate silence people into doing what we want? And so it's not enough now to harass law enforcement officers while they carry out their duties. We're now going to follow them to their homes. We're going to follow them to their churches.

We're going to intimidate their friends. We're going to frighten their children until, I guess, they think the effect of that would be that the administration will cease trying to enforce its immigration laws or maybe people will stop working for ICE. I don't know what the endgame is, but I expect if it's not dealt with in a swift and just manner to say this is unacceptable, there are ways that you can protest the government, this is America, but terrorizing people in a church is beyond the bounds. And it's been disappointing thus far. It's been encouraging on the part of the federal administration. I think the various people of the administration are involved, and seeking to do something about it, arrest some people.

But I think the local officials, the governor, the mayors, are slow playing it. They have no interest in doing it. In fact, I saw one Democratic legislator say, this will continue. This sort of thing is essential to what we're doing, and it will continue. So promising, this is actually the trans legislator in the Twin Cities, who said this is essential and it must continue, which is a shocking thing after, you know, just last year, a Catholic school was attacked by a trans shooter. And so you see the escalating violence on the left of normal Christian people. And I just want to, I just think I want to underscore that piece of it.

These are not, these are not political activists. This is not a political church. These are normal Bible-believing evangelicals, the mission of the church, the way that they talk since the beginning when we planted the church and they've continued this is real basic. They have a number of very clear priorities, what they care about. And if you asked any of them, they would say, we're here because we want to worship Jesus. He's the most, he's real. Jesus is real. And he's the most important person in the universe. He's the only hope of the world. There's salvation and no one else, that you're going to want to tell you that, and they're going to say, we want to love each other as Christians, and then they're going to say, and we're here to seek

the good of these cities. We've not given up on these cities. In fact, I think the pastor said that in the sermon in his first service, said, we're here in the midst of this chaos, and he says, but we're not giving up on the Twin Cities. We're here because we want to love our neighbors. We want to care for those. We want to give them the hope of the gospel, offer them freedom from sin and death. And that's what they're there for. And instead, this political chaos intrudes in the middle of a worship service and disrupt it. And it was absolutely, as my friend said, he said, it's absolutely shameful.

It's absolutely shameful. And then immediately, I appreciated this about him so much. I said, this is shameful, and we're here about Jesus. He wanted to make sure he's going to get that in because that's what he cares about. That's what he's all about. But I don't think we should make a mistake. Jesus was the target. It's not that they're an ice agent who they could have hassled at his house or at his job or whatever.

The target was Jesus. I'm sure you've seen the famous photograph from the Spanish Civil War. war, the opening months of the Spanish Civil War, where the communist forces surround a statue of Jesus and open fire on it, a statue, because they were more straightforward then. That's the enemy. And I do think it puts it in the right frame. Right. Yeah, it is, it is remarkable. I think in this, in this moment, as we're talking, there is a deep sickness in our culture. I think we all feel it. pressures high, tensions are high. And it is, it is a spiritual in nature. And I think that's one of the things. I'm a pastor. I'm still a pastor, just in a different state. And Jesus really is the only

hope for this. Like there is no way out. And what's needed in the moment is forgiveness of sins. And calling people to repent of it. Right. The reason that this this bubbles up is because sin festeres and festers and festers. And it's encouraged by, in this case, government officials who are fostering lawlessness, encouraging this kind of conduct, rather than being, as the Bible says they ought to be, a terror to evil conduct. That's what when God lays down, what should the government do? What's their job? And it's they should be a terror to evil conduct. They should execute God's wrath on the wrongdoers. They should reward the righteous. They should encourage good people, and they should punish bad people. That's their just basic job.

And in this circumstance, they're actually doing the opposite. They're terrorizing normal law-abiding citizens, and then they're encouraging the lawless and the lawbreakers. And because of that, it's bubbling up. It's bubbling over. And it's tragic. It really is tragic. And the only way out is for people to turn from their sins and to turn back to Christ. That's the only hope that any of us this nation has.

That's the only hope for any of us. It's literally inverted. The government encourages evil. abets lawlessness and punishes decency and good. So what is the right Christian reaction to this? Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about that, not just because of what happened over the weekend, but because of the last few years,

as, you know, last fall, Charlie Kirk was assassinated. And, you know, it's actually interesting years ago when we planted the church, the first sermon series that we did was on the Book of Acts. You're planning a new church, and so here's the planning of the church, right? And so we're preaching through the book of Acts, and you begin to notice these patterns. And you just notice that the early church leaders were just regularly colliding with the governing of authorities. So they're getting hauled in.

They're healing people. They're blessing people. They're sharing the gospel. They're announcing Jesus is risen from the dead. This is great news, everybody. He is the savior of the world. And they're announcing this. And they're met with opposition.

And it kind of escalates. And you see this escalating at first. The leaders are kind of annoyed by it. They're like, who are these guys? Why are they doing? What are they saying? And so they haul them in for questioning. What are you guys talking about?

And they're like, hey, no other name among heaven. Jesus, it's him. He rose from the dead. You killed him. You guys killed him. But he rose from the dead. And then they say, all right, don't do that anymore. Stop talking about that.

And they leave. and then they keep preaching. They go out and they pray. They say, Lord, look upon their threats and help us to continue to speak the word with boldness. And they do. God answers that prayer. They speak with boldness.

They preach the word. And then they get hauled back in. And this time they say, hey, look, we already told you guys once. Knock this off. And then they beat them. So now it's not just a warning. It's a violent warning. And now the leaders are a little bit jealous

because people are flocking to this new Christian movement. Right. And then it finally bubbles over. in the stoning of Stephen. Stephen is hauled before them, false charges. They lie about him. They slander him. And then they say, and then he says, he looks up into heaven. He says, I see Jesus. Jesus is risen and he's reigning, and he condemns the wickedness around him. You guys are all, you've turned aside from your God, you've abandoned him, you've killed the righteous one, you've murdered him, and then they rush upon them and they stone him to death. And so when you look at that kind of

escalation in Jerusalem 2,000 years ago. And then I'm sitting here reading the newspaper and going, history does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme. And when you think about the last 20 years and the escalating collisions we've seen in our country, you know, about, say, sexuality and people being harassed just because they won't make a cake or because they won't, you know, do flowers for a gay wedding. And you see that kind of escalating collision as Christians just try to live faithfully, faithful lives and then it bubbled over and in the fall we we saw we found an american stephen

essentially um in in charlie kirk like that's that's what happened as the left killed him and and then so you're so i read that and i go okay well what should we expect next if that's if the history is rhyming what comes next in the story and if you read the book of acts right after stephen is stone it says a general persecution breaks out against the christians that there's that like the the lawlessness spreads and now it doesn't matter if you're a leader or not. It doesn't matter if you're prominent or not. You could just be, what? Normal people going to church on a Sunday in an American town, and now you're going to be harassed and intimidated. And so this is precisely on cue. And I think, and I'm encouraged by what the Bible tells us to do in that case, because what those people did after that persecution broke out

is they were driven out of their homes. And they didn't go around moping and sulking and whining about, oh, woe was me, how could this happen? I really wish that Charlie Kirk wouldn't have said that or whatever. Stephen should have kept his mouth shut. Instead, it says they went about preaching the gospel. That's what they did. In other words, they imitated the boldness of their leaders who had been persecuted. And they went about, and as a result, there was a revival.

The gospel goes to the Samaritans, and lots of people are turning from their sins and being saved. And immediately after that, this is what's most remarkable in the story. It changed the history of the world is the Apostle Paul who'd been approving all of that, who'd been sanctioning it and hauling people to jail. But as a Pharisee, as an opponent of the church, God knocks him off his horse. He finds out Jesus is in fact real. And the entire history of the world is different because now the greatest evangelist in history has come to Christ. And so I see this. I see the tensions, and yet God's behind it all. He's sovereign. He rules. He reigns. Jesus is real. And he is working in this for the good of his people and for the good of the world and the good of this nation. And so my encouragement to Christians would be to imitate the early church to gather together in worship on Sundays, whether they're going to harass you or not, and to pray and to say, Lord, look upon their threats. Look what they're saying. Look at their lies. And

fill us with your Holy Spirit, and grant us to preach the Word of God, all of it, whole counsel of God, courage, clarity about Jesus, about sin, give us that ability with joy in the midst of this chaos. Give us that. That's what we want, Lord. And I believe just as God answered that prayer in the first century, he'll answer that prayer in the 21st. So this is, I mean, this is the spiritual war that Jesus promises that we've seen for thousands of years. we know how it ends, but in the meantime, we shouldn't be surprised and remain brave and bold. Is that a fair summary? Correct, yeah, and joyful.

I think that's what the things. And joyful. Like, I think that it's important because I think Christians do have a tendency sometimes when things go like this to get overly serious or serious in the wrong way, I guess. It can become intense and instead to go like, well, is God? So I was watching it, and one reaction I did have was from Psalm 2, He Who Sits in Heaven laughs, right? Like, what does God look at?

When the nations rage and they rage against His people and they rage against Christ, what's God's reaction? He who sits in heaven laughs. He's not threatened by this. He's not scrambling. God's not going to get somebody on the phone. He's not worried about that. Instead, he's going, this is my sovereign hand and plan working out for the good of my people

and the good of the world. I am going to bring glory to myself through this horrific stuff. Now, that doesn't mean for me as a Christian, do I want to see justice done now as well? Absolutely. It's because Jesus is real that governing authorities ought to bear the sword faithfully. They ought to punish lawbreakers

because someday Tim Walls and Mayor Jacob Fry are going to stand before God and they're going to answer for it, just like I will and just like you will. Everybody listening to this is going to stand before God. That's what's going to happen. And you're going to give an account. And so part of what they're going to account for is, hey, when Minneapolis was in chaos,

why were you stoking it? Like, why? What was that about? Like, some of these videos that we're seeing of the chaos being inflamed and encouraged by the left are going to be brought forward as evidence of their hatred of God's people, of Christ. And it's remarkable to think about. It is a sobering thing.

but as Christians, it ought to give us confidence. It's what gives us a joy in the midst of the suffering. When they plunder, when they attack, there's a deep and settled joy because Tim Walls doesn't run the universe. Thank God. Jake Fry doesn't. President Trump doesn't, for that matter. Like no human being runs the universe.

Well, one does. The Godman, Jesus Christ, he runs the universe. So if I'm hearing this right, chaos just by itself, is a marker of evil. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's Christ or chaos. Those are the two options. Like those are like the basic options in America today. It's Christ or chaos. You either get, you either get the decay, the disorder, the lawlessness, or we turn to Jesus. And he puts us everything back together. He puts you back together individually. Like you're in turn, you get forgiven for your sins and you get sanctified. You get made holy. You get healed and restored. And then he puts together our families, the brokenness there. He puts together our communities. He puts together our nation. You know, listening to your monologue at the front of the hour, it just struck me. You're describing sort of the balkanization of the United States and this mass demographic transformation.

I think that's a subject that many evangelicals are uncomfortable with, quite honestly, having been an evangelical my whole life, and it's uncomfortable for them to even think about or talk about. But thinking about it, it's like, well, what's the hope then? And I think the only hope is, well, everybody needs to turn to Jesus, and then we can sort it out. But if we don't turn to Jesus, we're just going to fight and we're going to devour each other because that's what human being. Apart from Christ, that's what human beings do. We envy, rivalry, pride, selfish ambition. That's human nature in its sort of sinful state. And so the only

hope is we've got to turn away from that. And then, okay, now we've got millions of people from different ethnic groups and we've got all these things. How are we going to sort it out? Well, Jesus has to be at the center of that or it won't happen. It can't happen. All you're going to get is more of this violence. Like that's the basic. the basic hope. That is, tribalism is a product of nature. It's the default setting in people. It inevitably becomes violent. It's a sadomasochistic dynamic always, and someone is on the wrong end of it. And the only way to avoid that is Jesus. That's my view. That's absolutely true. It's absolutely true. And it's the solution to the kind of mob violence that we see, right? People always

look for scapegoats. They want to find someone to blame for all their problems and because they have problems and they don't want to, if they can't admit that like the biggest problem in the universe is me, like my biggest problem is me, right? Like I think I heard someone say that one time. And my biggest problem is me. And if they can't admit that, then they're going to start blaming everybody. And eventually they get enough people sharing their grievance that they're going to go take it out. And we saw that on Sunday. And so the only hope is, oh, it, acknowledge, like, I'm the problem, and God still loves me. He sent Jesus to die for my sins, for goodness sake. And so he's welcoming me back. Like, you can be the prodigal. And I just, again,

as a pastor, thank you for having me on. And I just want to say to the people listening, like, if you're the prodigal, if you're running away, whether you're a leftist or right wing or, you know, noncommittal or whatever, I don't care. Like, if you're the prodigal running away from God, like you can come home. Like, he left the light on. He's got a really nice robe. He'll give you the ring. He'll kill the fatted cap. He'll throw a big party. because he loves you. So you can just come back. You don't have to keep running. And if everybody would do that, like if God would be gracious to this nation and people would turn back to Christ, turn back to Christ, then we could talk. Then the political stuff, it wouldn't work itself out there. It'd still be

bumps, so we'd still have to work it out. But we'd have a foundation to build on. And so that really is the basic choice before us. Individually, the basic choice before us as a nation, it's Christ or it's chaos. There is no third option. There isn't one. That's all you got. It's true for every person. Joe Rigney, thank you. I really appreciate you're coming on and putting that in a perspective and I appreciate your wisdom. Thank you. Hey, thanks for having me, Dr. I appreciate it. Thanks. We appreciate your watching. We'll be back next Wednesday live.