The Tucker Carlson Show - Tucker Responds to the Epstein Files, Pizzagate & the Demonic Global Crime Network with Ian Carroll

Episode Date: February 6, 2026

It looks like Pizzagate is basically real. Ian Carroll explains. (00:00) Monologue (12:01) What Is Pizzagate? (26:28) The Elites' Demonic Ritualistic Child Abuse (32:16) The Disgusting Governmental Cover-up of Epstein’s Atrocities (57:52) Will This Corruption Continue? Paid partnerships with: Masa Chips: Get 25% off with code TUCKER at https://masachips.com/tucker Defend: Enter code "Tucker" for 20% off your purchase at https://defendcellcam.com Joi + Blokes: Use code TUCKER for 50% off your labs and 20% off all supplements at https://joiandblokes.com/tucker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So if you're one of those people who's been wondering when we're going to find out more about the Jeffrey Epstein story, who's been asking for disclosure, at least wanting more disclosure, the dump of more than 3 million Epstein-related documents a few days ago by the U.S. government is, well, pretty amazing, but also kind of a mixed blessing. because in that cache of material is a lot of tantalizing information. There's also a lot of stuff that's maybe not true. There's some stuff that seems kind of fantastical, and it's all there together. And you could ask yourself, well, why is that? Could this be an attempt to discredit the whole story by throwing nonsense in next to clearly true information? possibly we can't know. All we can do is assess what's on the internet right now.

So included in that document dump are a bunch of emails to and from Jeffrey Epstein, to and from people whose names we know, and in a lot of cases, people whose names have been redacted for whatever reason. We can't know why they were redacted. We can guess. There are text messages. There are videos. there are photographs, there are all kinds of attachments, documents,

and there are also a lot of statements from anonymous people, some named people that may or may not be true, including people who just called into some sort of tip line with information about Epstein, including statements from confidential human sources that may or may not have been taken under oath. Like, who knows? There's just a lot of stuff there, and some of it seems kind of ridiculous. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Some of it seems worth following up on.

So how do we assess it? Well, that's going to take an awfully long time. Most people don't have the time. So we thought it would be interesting just to start with a very narrow slice of the material. And that's the emails and text that we can be pretty sure were sent from or to Jeffrey Epstein. That pertained to the question of food, specifically pizza. And that caught our attention immediately. Pizza.

People talking about pizza. adults talking about pizza and pizza parties. Now, why did that catch our attention? Of course, because it evoked memories of this semi-forgotten story from about 10 years ago, known as Pizza Gate. That was a wild conspiracy theory thought up by like the QAnon retards on the internet. The conspiracy theory about Pizza Gate. It sounded so absurd. And we're about to get into much more detail about what that original theory was and what it may have actually meant in just a second. But it all began, as you may or may not remember, with another trove of information that hit the Internet 10 years ago. WikiLeaks, to be specific, released in 2016 a bunch of emails from John Podesta, of course, former high official in the Clinton and Obama White Houses to and from a bunch of people that mentioned the word pizza,

or pizza parties in ways that seemed totally inorganic, just weird. In fact, in ways that suggested the term pizza was a code word for something else, something dark. And people on the Internet speculated at great length that pizza was actually a synonym for children or sex with children. Ugh. And this was immediately dismissed, of course. and turns out there was probably a lot more there than a lot of us perceived at the time.

And again, we're going to get into that in just a minute with Ian Carroll, who's taking a very close look at this. But back to the most recent document dump. There were a lot of references to pizza, like a lot, by some counts, almost a thousand in these documents. Some of them probably were just to pizza. You don't want to read too much into anything because you start imagining that you see things that aren't actually there. but if you read, I don't know, exchanges like this, let's read one, see what you think. And we're quoting, this is an email to Jeffrey Epstein, we're told by DOJ on April 6, 2018.

Quote, this is better than a Chinese cookie. Let's go for pizza and grape soda again. No one can understand. Maybe, you know, there are a lot of fit adults like Jeffrey Epstein, who's pretty fit for a middle-aged man. in 2018, who are regularly eating pizza and grape soda. Or maybe they're talking about something else. Maybe this is code. So it's worth considering anyway, right?

But it was this exchange that made us think, whoa, wait a second, maybe the long debunked conspiracy theory about PizzaGate wasn't actually debunked. And maybe someone should take a closer look at this, given Epstein's, documented history of sexual abuse of young people. So here's just one exchange. This is the one that stopped us in our tracks and made us think, oh, wow, we should know more.

This is an exchange, according to these documents, we're not alleging anything, but this is what's on the internet from the DOJ. This is on the DOJ website. This is an exchange between, and apparently text exchange between Jeffrey Epstein and we think a urologist, a physician who was treating him, apparently for erectile dysfunction, in the spring of 2018. And that physician's name is Harry Fish. Again, we're not alleging anything. We're just going to read what's in this. Okay. So this is the doctor texting Jeffrey Epstein, and I'm quoting, and they're going back and forth on stuff. And he says, I'm back.

can call you in Stendra 100 at Zittmer. Now, Stendra is apparently an erectile dysfunction drug like Viagra, and he's prescribing it to Jeffrey Epstein, who apparently needs it. And Epstein writes, how many? And the doctor writes back, 10. They didn't have your call yet. You have refills available.

Call them back. Thanks. They wanted you to call. Epstein says to his, apparently, to his urologist about the erectile dysfunction drugs. The doctor writes back, I just did. You can pick them up now. And here's the line that inspired the segment you're about to watch. After you use them, after you use the erectile dysfunction drugs, after you take Viagra, where it's equivalent, we're quoting, wash your hands and let's go get pizza and grape soda. call me. So to all the people who dismissed out of hand this conspiracy theory about PizzaGate, oh, it had nothing to do with sex or kids or anything elicited at all. It wasn't a code word. There was eating pizza. Here you have apparently Jeffrey Epstein's urologist telling him that after you take your erectile dysfunction drug, after you become sexually potent again, wash your hands and join me for pizza and grape soda. Okay now.

You don't have to be a total wacko to see the connection between a pizza and grape soda and what sounds like some kind of illicit sex act, again, committed by a guy with a documented history of illicit sex acts with young people. So the obvious question is, what is this? The second obvious question is, has anyone in federal law enforcement talked to the surviving member of this text exchange, which would be this guy, Harry Fish, whoever he is, apparently now a pharma executive. Has anyone talked to him, not arrested or indicted him, but just sat him down and said, hey, pizza and grape soda after taking an erectile dysfunction drug? What were you talking about? Speak slowly so we can understand into the microphone.

Has that happened? This is not an attack on Donald Trump, obviously. It's not a conspiracy theory. It's not an attempt to crush the Republican Party or influence the 2028 primary. It's like a question that any American should be allowed to ask, which is, are federal law enforcement officials doing their best to stop the sexual abuse of young people? And that's kind of a baseline requirement, you would say, in a civilized country, that federal law enforcement. law enforcement make a good faith effort to stop people from molesting kids. And maybe this isn't evidence of child molestation, but if it's not, what is it? What is it? And is anyone trying

hard to find out what it is? We would hope someone does really soon. And more broadly, what does this tell us about one of the most amazing stories of the last 10 years, 2016, the WikiLeaks dump of John Podesta's Gmail account. There was a lot in there, a lot. We were told the Russians did it. We ended up going to war with Russia over that. Really, that's when the whole Russia thing started was in that story. But now that we've had 10 years and now more information,

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Ian Carroll has been thinking a lot about this. We think he's meticulous and honest, careful and responsible. And so we're really pleased, grateful, in fact, to have him join us now. Ian Carroll, thanks so much for doing this. Yeah, thanks for having me on, Tucker. It's a great intro because you ask so many pertinent questions.

Well, yeah, I mean, look, there's so much here and everybody who's even paying a little bit of attention is getting text after text or pulling up X and seeing all this wild stuff. And, you know, I want to be as responsible as I can and just be very honest. Like, I have no idea what a lot of this stuff is. And of course, partisanship and actual partisan battles are distorting the way people look at this. But I just wanted to pick one narrow, no pun intended, one slice of it and try to figure out what we're looking at here. So do you mind? I know that, and I am a bad.

source for this because I didn't take PizzaGate as seriously, maybe I guess, as I should have at the time. Would you mind just giving a recap, a basic recap of what this PizzaGate theory was and what we actually know about that story? Yeah, it's another one of those stories that was distorted by the apparent cover-up, or at least distorted by the media's response to, to it, which was very much a straw man-style response in that these emails get dumped online full of everything that was in John Podesta's life. And John Podesta is a very powerful and connected man. And there was lots of stuff in those emails that was overtly concerning, politically concerning, like geopolitically concerning. But people on the internet then started to notice these strange pizza messages, messages about, you know, $40,000 worth a hot dog

or something like that being flown to DC for parties, things that are just like, wait, wait a minute. You think about it for just a moment, and you realize that that does not make sense. And overt references to children, too, like these kids ages like 7, 8, and 9, or I forget the exact ages, will be in the pool and it'll be heated

and they will be there for, it's like, wait, what are we talking about? So people started to dig into what these weird emails were, and then they started to dig into the fact that there's certain pizza places referenced a lot, places where these people are going and hosting parties, they start to notice that this one pizza place in particular, Comet Pingpong, which was a pizza place right in the heart of D.C. that was run by a very politically connected DC insider, boyfriend to the founder or owner of Media Matters, a bunch of strange coincidences. They start to notice

all these strange coincidences around this pizza shop. And they noticed that the Instagram of this pizza shop is full of very disturbing images of children. Things like children taped to tables, things like commenters talking about rape and sexual abuse, things like comments about kill rooms and just so much disturbing imagery on a public Instagram account for a public pizza place that has photos of like Obama having pizza at it. That in these emails, Podesta is talking about going and having, you know, lunch at this pizza place with all these very high-level political people. And it started to get very strange. And so Pizzagate itself spiraled out into a lot of questions and concerns and

genuine investigation. But then it got distorted by the media response, which felt a lot like an immune response to a dangerous virus. And the media response then, and packaged up all of these very legitimate questions that never got answered. And it repackaged it as these crazy people on the internet think that Hillary Clinton personally is running. She's the top. She's the head of a satanic pedophile cabal. And the whole thing is being run out of the basement of this pizza place. You see the absurdity of the sort of rapper they put around this, which no one was claiming that. No one was claiming that Hillary was running it.

No one was claiming that it was all out of the basement of this piece. They were just asking a lot of questions about very legitimate, strange things. And then a very weird event happened, where as the media is running this big kind of smear campaign on these questions, a guy conveniently walks into that pizza place with an AR gun and shoots the place up, doesn't hit anybody, but manages to shoot a bullet, straight through the hard drive that's in the back room somehow, and gets arrested by police very publicly.

They have a big photo shoot, and he gives a couple of sound bites as they're hauling him off that are something to the effect of, I was so convinced that it was all real and that it was all here, and it's just not, or something. And so it's like, wow, that is sure convenient. It's good thing that Hillary Clinton's not personally running a giant satanic pedophile ring

out of the basement of this pizzeria, which no one was a legend. And that was sort of became the wrap-up smear, as Nancy Pelosi has described to us in the past how a wrap-up smear works, where you wrap a problematic narrative up in a false

representation of it, and then you have something crazy happen, dangerous, crazy, objectionable happen around that. So then you can look at it and say, that's dangerous, These conspiracy theories are dangerous, and anyone that engaged in these conspiracy theories is dangerous, so we can censor them all off the internet because it's been debunked.

Don't pay attention to the fact that the guy that owns the pizza place that has the images of children on their Instagram is the boyfriend of the guy that runs Media Matters, who is one of the primary debunkers of these things. So those are the sorts of weird things that happened around the breaking of Pizza Gate, And no one ever got any answers. No one ever, no one in government ever took it seriously. And all those emails are still out there floating. They're harder to find these days, but they're still out there. And the Instagram accounts were, they were preserved in various formats online, archived.

So you can still find a lot of the evidence, but it's a lot harder to verify now, because you do make a great point about the current email release, that a lot of bullshit gets mixed in and a lot of stuff of, questionable veracity gets mixed in. And so you have to be very careful about sourcing it all, especially 10 years down the line with something like Pizza Gate. May I ask, do you know if it's true? And I believe it is.

So the man you just referred to who shot up comment pizza in Washington, which, by the way, was like very close to my house where I raised my, I brought my children there because it was the pizza place in my neighborhood, which the whole thing is so weird. One of the reasons I didn't take it serious. So I was like, oh, yeah, that's right. That's on Connecticut Avenue. Yeah, right.

Too close to it. But the guy who shot it up, who seemed a little bit off, right, was just shot to death last month right before these emails were released by police in North Carolina, who pulled him over, apparently on suspicion that he was a fugitive of some kind. I don't think that he was. They said he reached for a gun and two cops killed him. That guy, that same guy, was killed right before the document release. Is that true?

I heard the same reporting. Obviously, at this point, I don't really know what's true. The whole world feels a little bit like The Matrix, but yes, I read the same reporting. And the nuance was not lost on me. But I don't know about you or anyone else, but I was in no way expecting to find pizza references in the Epstein files. Even though I had dug deeply into the Pizza Gate stuff, and even though we know that Jeffrey Epstein is a human trafficker, that is trafficking in the same things that PizzaGate would allege

gets pizza references. It just never occurred. I wasn't expecting any pizza references. So it kind of blew my mind when suddenly there's like 800 and something references to pizza in these emails. And especially you picked out some really, really

great, like obvious ones at the opener there where, I mean, like pizza and grape soda is a very overt pairing. that I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone actually like eat as a pairing. Well, and also, I mean, these are people, well, first of all, in this exchange, apparently one guy's a physician

and the other is Jeffrey Epstein. And these are health-obsessed people. These are people who talk about getting blood transfusions just to extend their lives. And I know as an actual pizza fan that pizza is very unhealthy. I mean, it's been a lifelong struggle for me. Pizza and grape soda?

Like these are the last things that people who care about their health eat. And there's a whole class of people who are, well, vain for one thing. But who are very focused on themselves and their physical health. And it's just sort of, I don't know, it's a lot for me to believe that the one thing that Epstein's friends and John Podestis friends have in common is they both have a steady diet of pizza and grape soda. Like, I just don't believe. And not only do they have a steady diet of that, but they feel compelled to email each other about it with very weird verbiage. How many grown men email each other about getting pizza or about how tasty the pizza was?

Or about how many slices you can slice a pizza up into or how many people will be at the pizza party? Then there's another email in the current dump that is even, it stuck out to me because it has the word red hook in it, which at first I didn't have the context, and it seemed suspicious, the words Red Hook, where it was, someone was emailing asking if another guy can go to Red Hook for a pizza meal later. And then, in looking into it,

it turns out that Red Hook is the address of where Jeffrey Epstein's Virgin Islands businesses are domiciled. It's on the marina where you would leave in the boat to get to his island. And so then it gets, then it's almost weirder. Someone was emailing asking if another man can go to where Jeffrey Epstein's business is domiciled for a pizza meal at some. There's a lot of emails like that where people ask if they can use the apartment for a bit or if we can go get pizza for a few hours or for 30 minutes.

That's a pizza get reference as opposed to these emails. A lot of these times where they're using food language in ways that does not square with how food actually gets eaten, or talked about ever. Most security systems operate like old-fashioned cable internet. They're installed in one place. They're tied to one address. And if you move or your job moves, you've got to start over. But that's not how other people do.

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Defend CellCamp. So the new year is here, but that does not mean you've got to overhaul your whole life, despite claims to the contrary. You don't have to take drastic measures. Make a few changes here and there, and you'll be a lot better off. And you can start with the snacks in your pantry.

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I mean, a lot of the people in these exchanges or apparently in these exchanges are still alive. Some of them are prominent people still, including apparently the doctor in this exchange. Do you know if anyone has just been asked in a straightforward way, what was this? Not since Pizza Gate, as far as I'm aware. I mean, to be fair, it's all a little new. We're still in the first week here, but no, I don't know of anyone being asked directly about any of these references or about any of the more overt stuff for that matter. The other, you know, very rich and powerful people that are caught with their pants down,

so to speak here. A couple people have issued apologies. A couple people have resigned from positions. But it's entirely underwhelming the official response because it's one thing for someone like you or me, journalists to go and ask questions, which is good and should be happening. But that's not what should be happening.

What should be happening is law enforcement should be at their door knocking and asking these questions. We should have institutions that are there asking these questions, and many more. Many, there's, I mean, this is a particularly interesting and dark thread when you really unwinded. But there's obviously all the other threads of just like, hey, you went to the island.

hey, you said you never talked to him, but you did. And none of those questions are being asked. We're being told that it's all a Democrat hoax and that Cash Patel would arrest someone if there was anyone to arrest. So it's very underwhelming. Yeah, I mean, I always am suspicious of people who kind of jump ahead to things like arrest, conviction, incarceration, execution. How about let's just start with an interview?

And, you know, I know a lot of people who have been interviewed by. the FBI. I know hundreds of people have been interviewed. Well, exactly, but in the context of a federal investigation, it's not crazy to call somebody. In fact, it's common. It happens every single day, happened to like every relative of every J6 prisoner got called in, sat down. Can we come talk to you? I mean, that's, that's not weird. That's the beginning of justice. That's the first step in finding out what happened, punishing the guilty, exonerating the innocent, is having these conversations in the context of a federal investigation, like an FBI interview. And I find it very strange that none of this has happened. And so when you see people on television say, well, we don't have

the, you know, any evidence to indict someone, you know, panel of grand jury, it's like, I don't know, who talked about a grand jury? Why don't you just ask questions of that. You're the FBI. And if they're not doing that, then you sort of wonder why. So let me just, okay, so here's the bigger picture that you're qualified to provide and I'm not. The implication of this and a lot of other things in this file dump is that there are basically religious rituals, sexual in nature, that's very common through history. There were temple prostitutes for a reason. There are rituals involving children underway in the United States and the West, rich and powerful people, sexually abusing young people. That is very hard for a lot of people to believe or metabolize, but it feels like that's not totally crazy.

Like that happens. Does that happen? I mean, absolutely. It's so dark that it's hard for average people, regular people that are just trying to live their lives to even approach it. And even imagine, like, you cannot put yourselves in the shoes of someone so depraved. And honestly, like regular Americans can't even put themselves in the shoes of a millionaire, let alone a billionaire because, like, they're just trying to pay their bills and they can't because the billionaires are, you know, doing certain these billionaires, at least are doing certain things that are messing everything up.

But so it's so far removed from our regular experience that it's hard to understand and believe. But it is, I mean, there's been good evidence of elements of that in various kind of fringe investigations for a long time. And I don't say fringe to mean they're unreliable. I mean, fringe to say that they just never get traction with the mainstream media for whatever reason. But it is, it's right there in these emails and in these files. And it's not entirely clear what all that means, but there's very overt references, there's covert references, and there's just mounting, because people are still digging through them. These are millions of files and no effective way to sort through them

the way that the DOJ put them out. And so the evidence is mounting more and more that we have everything in these files from people that were turning a blind eye, which is also reprehensible, people that were adjacent and complicit, people that were directly complicit, people that were straight up evil and disgusting. and then people that venture into the demonic or the truly depraved. And people that have been following this story have known for a long time that unfortunately that's always been a part of it.

And we've had evidence that that's a part of it for a long time. And that's true of most all human trafficking networks. The people that are doing human trafficking by their nature are some of the most depraved people on this planet and it's an enormous industry and it's not getting any smaller. And it's tragic that it takes something so overt as, you know, this massive blackmail ring apparently blowing up in the middle of the United States government and across the entire world and then trailing out in a like 10 year long cover up almost, seven year long cover up, for people to even like confront that this is happening.

But it's definitely happening. not everyone in the files is participating in ritualistic sacrifices or anything like that. And there are fake things in the files that are, for whatever reason in there, for one example, one that went very viral, is there's an image in the files of a cutting board with chickens on it and like a black box censored out, but there's like a foot sticking out. And it's obviously a baby's foot. And the implication is that it's a cutting board with some chickens and like a baby. they're going to carve it up and eat it. By my understanding, that is a fake image.

It's kind of hard to tell what's real and what's fake at this point, but there's stuff like that in there that's like... So there's just a lot of really messed up stuff in there, but there's also a lot of people running away with a little tidbit for views or clicks or likes or whatever it is. And so it's really important that people pump the brakes, slow down, and go to the original source files and look for people that are citing their sources on the files that they're referencing. And when they make definitive claims, they show you the files that they're talking about.

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And I'll just name two of them. One is Bill Barr, who's the two-time attorney Republican, Attorney General, whose father, by the way, started Jeffrey Epstein's career. His father, Donald Barr, was a former OSS CIA officer. In the files, I should also say, that Jeffrey Epstein describes Bill Barr, the former AG, as, quote, CIA. Jeffrey Epstein privately says this guy's CIA. Bill Barr covered up Epstein's murder, which clearly murdered in federal detention.

Barr said, out loud, we got to make sure everyone thinks this is a suicide. So why isn't he being asked about this? And the second is Mike Pompeo. And Mike Pompeo was caught plotting to murder Julian Assange, the head of WikiLeaks. Why is it significant? Well, because it was WikiLeaks that made that first tranche of emails available to the public. And it was Julian Assange who said on camera basically said, my source, he didn't say this. He didn't say my source, but he heavily suggested in an interview with Dutch television.

And my source was Seth Rich. The DNC staffer who was found murdered on the street in Washington in a so-called robbery where nothing was taken from him. That investigation was taken over by the FBI. What? Why? And Assange goes on Dutch television and says, I can't see who my sources are, but they face great risks. You couldn't pull up the interview right now and look at it. And then he points to Seth Rich.

And the interviewer's like, wait, are you saying Seth Rich was murdered for this? And Assange is like, look, I can't tell you who my sources are. But my sources take great risks. Seth Rich just got murdered. I mean, that couldn't be clearer, right? It was right after that that Julian Assange was incarcerated first in an embassy in London

and then in Belmarsh prison, never charged with a crime, and that was pushed by CIA and Mike Pompeo. And it's like, wait a second. Shouldn't someone ask Mike Pompeo? Like, what is this? What is this? These are real allegations,

or credible allegations, and rather than follow up, You're punishing the guy who brought them to light. Tell us how that works, Mike Pompeo. I mean, Mike Pompeo is like wandering free. And no one asks him about this. Like, what is going on, Ian Carroll? Every time I talk about this story,

every aspect of the story from Pizigate to Epstein, everything in between, I always have to try not to get angry because when you think about, especially for me the cover-up, it makes me so furious how regular Americans are going to jail over, like, smoking a joint, or going to jail over, like, paying taxes that are getting sent overseas anyways,

or going to jail over a parking ticket they can't afford, whatever it is, this madness in this country where we are law-faired to death, but these obvious criminals and these people that we at least have obvious questions for are just walking free. And you bring up two really great points that, I mean, in both cases, I think it's obvious that those actions are being taken on behalf of whatever criminal organizations or happenings are being exposed, for example, in those email dumps that Sethridge probably leaked. Because it wasn't just Pizagate stuff. It was also all sorts of Benghazi stuff, all sorts of Hillary Clinton stuff, all sorts of other really serious stuff that also was never asked of the appropriate parties.

But, I mean, when you start talking about who's still walking free that we should be asking questions of, and we're looking at the Epstein investigation, that list immediately grows to like 100 miles long. And we got in one of the document drops that happened a couple weeks ago, and then we re-corroborated it multiple times since then. We got a list of 10 co-conspirators that they have had for years from one of their old investigations that just never happened. happened because they were you know cash Patel's been telling us there are no co-conspirators there is no there is no organization it was just him alone um but we've got a document saying that they had 10 co-conspirators one of whom was lesley wexner um they're named and that the list is long like there's pilots we know their names larry vissoski there's three different pilots there's a bunch of um other madams like galane maxwell but you know assistants that we're helping to recruit girls there's a bunch of other

people that were trafficking models and bringing models in and out. There's just this long, there's an enormously long list of people in various roles all around Epstein that we know full well were at the very least, deeply suspiciously involved, where they should be asked some very serious questions. I mean, right up to Ahud Barak, you know, who by my accounting looks like the handler of Epstein. He certainly looks like we have all these emails from both Ahud Barak's email server now and from Jeffrey Epstein's trove of documents that corroborate them doing what looks like intelligence operations all around the world and in the United States. So there's just an endless number of people that, like you were saying earlier, that we could at least investigate

because it's in the name, the Federal Bureau of Investigation. And they keep on giving us this line as though like, well, we've got emails, but it's not illegal to party with Jeffrey Epstein. And it's like, we're not asking you to read the emails. We're asking you to investigate all of the myriad suspicious things that are documented here in these files and emails. And instead of getting investigation, we're getting what looks like cover up, denial, distraction,

anything, anything but investigation. And it kind of makes you wonder why. Well, it definitely makes you wonder why. And part of it is the political dynamic, which, you know, poisons everything. And Trump is obviously sensitive to, like, partisan traps after the Russian nonsense, which was a lie. Russia Gate was a lie. By the way, Russia Gate was constructed, in my view, in part to cover up the origin of the DNC emails in 2016 and the John Podesta Gmail in 2016. neither of which was done by Russia. Clearly, you know, there's a lot more there.

We're not allowed to ask questions about Seth Rich. I don't know why. Seth Rich's parents don't own that story. I feel so sorry for them, of course, but I'm an American citizen. And if someone is murdered on the street in Washington, we all have an interest in asking what was that? That's not an attack on his memory. It's a demand for justice in the name of every single American. Not just his family. Don't get to shut it down. Sorry. etc, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Like, all of this gets to the foundation of our system, which is justice, is every citizen treated the same under the law or not. And if not, then we need to fix that.

So, and I know that Trump is really worried this is a trap laid for him. I'm sure it is. But let's set that aside and ask about the rest of us and whether our country can continue on the same basis that, you know, we assumed we were living under, which is, again, you know, one of equal justice under the law. So can you just go through some of the questions? And I think both of us are trying to be really responsible. In fact, based here, clearly there's nonsense in this document dump. Don't want to get trapped by it. Don't want to fall for it.

But on the basis of things that we can say with some certainty are true or seem to be true, what are the questions that you, having gone through this for several days now, think that we should be asking, following up on? Well, there's questions for a lot of different people, and some of them are more serious and some of them are maybe less serious. One of the biggest ones in many ways is how did we let Bill Gates be in charge of the medical decisions of our entire nation when apparently he was trying to slip antibiotics to his wife secretly because he transferred sexually transmitted diseases from hookers on Jeffrey Epstein's Islands to her? that is insane. And when you look back at the absolutely just the crime against humanity that COVID was

and you realize who Bill Gates is and who he's exposed to be in these emails, that's atrocious. But that's less of a question we need to ask and more of a person. We need to just forget about forever, right? Well, first of all, I just bless you for saying that and you put it so well.

This is the guy who was made. making health decisions for the entire world. And apparently from these emails, he's trying to slip a drug into his wife's drink because he infected her with a venereal disease from a Russian hooker. So, yeah, I mean, that's just like, that's just amazing. Thank you for saying that. It's amazing. Yeah.

That's apparently, that's apparently our health professionals, our pandemic response. But I think that everyone that's in the files has a certain amount of answering to do, for example, Elon Musk. And to Elon's credit, at least he's out on Twitter, you know, at least putting his words forwards. I don't know, is they all square with me when you actually read what he said in the emails versus what he's saying on Twitter is the truth. But, like, I haven't seen anything that directly completely 100% contradicts one another,

so to speak. So there's, you know, there's reconciliations of, because that, for people that don't have the context, there's a bunch of. emails of Elon Musk trying to sort of organize going to party with Jeffrey Epstein and explicitly saying, no, I want to go to a wild party. I'm not trying to have a relaxing vacation. I'm really stressed. I want a wild party. No big deal if it's a bunch of young girls. But also, it doesn't appear that they ever actually managed to make that connection happen for a party. They kept missing each other. He did have lots of meetings with them. So there's those sorts

of reconciliations that need to happen. And then there's the overt lies. like Peter Teal's connections to Jeffrey Epstein that have repeatedly been a moving goalpost of, I kind of knew him, and I was kind of introduced to him to like, actually, you've got a whole bunch of emails with them. Actually, he funded your venture capital firm with hundreds of thousands of dollars. Actually, clearly this relationship was much more extensive

than you displayed at first. The same is true of Howard Lutnik. Howard Lutnik, who is the Commerce Secretary right now, neighbor of Jeffrey Epstein is on video in interview explicitly, explicitly saying that I met him once way back and immediately

knew he was a creep and me and my wife had to go and we never talked to him ever again, never saw him, never, whatever. That's not true. He's in the emails, obviously like going to that, he took his family to the island. They were hanging out together. They were going to parties together.

So there's a whole spectrum of scandal for various people that I think needs to be answered for individually. And then there's sort of the collective government answering that needs to be done for the current administration and all of the various...

Let's be clear. The partisanship, it is so past time for partisanship right now. This is an American issue. It's not a left or right issue. It's not just a Trump issue. It's not just a Bill Clinton. issue. It's an everyone issue. It's a corruption issue. And if there's anything that should bring Americans together, it is harm to our children and it is subversion of our nation using the harm

of those children. And there's a bunch of people in Trump's circle and around him that are very much implicated in these files. There's obviously a bunch of Democrats that are super implicated in these files. Everyone all around Clinton, Clinton himself, insanely implicated. So it's not about which side is which. To me, the question there is, it's about our government institutions answering to how have you let this corruption seep in and rot this out at its core. And in many ways, I think the heart of who needs to answer for that is our law enforcement institutions, our FBI and our DOJ. And I can't think of anybody who I'm more disgusted by right now in our government than Cash Patel and Pam Bondi. for their gross misrepresentation of what this is,

and their blatant, blatant moving of goalposts on the way here. And what to me, in my opinion, looks like direct obfuscation of, now that we've seen these files, now that we've read these documents, go back and rewatch what Pam Bondi said, what Cash Patel said, what Dan Bongino said, about how there's no evidence that he trafficked girls to anyone. no evidence that he worked with anyone in any big conspiracy. It's mind-blowing that

see these files and we don't even have them all yet. And that's what you would come up with. So, well, and to your last point, we don't have them all yet. My understanding is a little over 3 million, I think, documents. However, that's measured. They're not documents. They're just whatever.

But that there are, a million or more than a million more, this is like one tranche in a series? It's a little unclear. We were told that they had over six million. And so now that we have three point something million, speculatively, there's several more million to go. But we don't really know as far as I'm aware

exactly what they have. And one thing that, I think we're at a time where it's important to remind the American people because a lot of people actually didn't follow this story for a long time. A lot of people didn't read the literature that's been written on the case in the past. And a lot of people don't realize that it came out in the Gleyn Maxwell trial, sworn FBI testimony, like the testimony of FBI agents. It came out that when they first raided Jeffrey Epstein's home,

and they found all those binders with all of those CDs in them that we now have photos of, C-SAM did not scan, C-Sam did not scan. We've got all the binder photos with all the different little photos in it. they at first found those binders and all those CDs and all those drives and they photographed them all and did not take them with them because it was not within the scope of their warrant. They left and left all of that material there with Jeffrey Epstein's staff at his place and then they later asked them to send it to them and it was sent to the FBI

by Jeffrey Epstein's people and they had no way to corroborate if any of it was untampered with, basically. They didn't even raid several of his properties, and some of the properties that they did raid, they basically had advanced warning, namely the island. So it's important to remember that, A, we don't have all the documents that they actually do have yet,

but B, the actual documents that they do have is built on such a pathetic, original collection of evidence, not because all the FBI agents were corrupt and didn't want to do it, but because something in the system, something in the nature of how this thing was protected, prevented any real acquisition of evidence where maybe they could have gotten,

I'm sure they could have gotten a lot. But you're not going to get a whole lot when you raid the pedophiles mansion and say, hey, would you send me all your hard drives in a week? I would love to take a look at them, right? And so when that came out in the Gleine Maxwell trials a couple years ago, it was just sort of like a big slap in the face to the whole idea that we're ever going to get any real justice here. Kind of remind me of like M.K. Ultra. Of what we have from the M.K. Ultra documents is mind blowing and messed up and completely unbelievable.

But people often forget that actually Dick Helms is our understanding at this point is that Dick Helms, burned and destroyed well over 90% of the actual files that once existed about it. So we're dealing with a slice of a slice of a picture at this point. MKLtra, you know, approaching 60 years ago, this stuff is like, I mean, some of these files are seven years old. And the people engaged in these colloquies are still around it. By the way, I know some of them. which gets the other point, which is like, how was Jeffrey Epstein at the center of everything,

every global start? I mean, he was going back and forth on Libya, you know, is going back and forth in the global financial crisis. It's like there's really no... He was deeply involved in the global financial crisis. He was actually selling CDOs. Okay, so can you just, I mean, there's so much here. And I hope when I'm... Yeah.

You know, we're in the same place. You can go through this in much greater detail. But can you just tell us what we know about that? Jeffrey Epstein's involvement or intersection with the global financial crisis? What's that? Well, the intersection with the global financial crisis specifically is a wild story that to be truly told, you need to put the evidence on screen as well. But the short version is that he had a company called Liquid Funding Limited that was domiciled in the Bahamas that was partially owned by Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns, you know, is where he had come up for a long time.

And Liquid Funding Limited was selling CDOs, the same types of CDOs that eventually caused the global financial crisis. It was capitalized at, I believe, $100 million and allowed to sell $20 billion with a B of CDOs. And I actually just was looking at that statistic earlier today because this is the craziest story. And that little CDO factory that Jeffrey Epstein was running tied into Bear Stearns. And if you recall, Bear Stearns was one of the first to collapse, right? That shut down in the months directly preceding Bear Stearns starting to collapse. And Jeffrey Epstein redeemed all of those CDOs, all of those assets. The terms are, I don't know the technical terms for what he did, but basically,

He made a run on the bank on those exact assets that were the exact problem. And he was tied into the exact bank that was financially distressed. And then he wound that whole company, liquid funding limited up, and disappeared. And later, J.P. Morgan, the bank that he later worked with after, you know, Bear Stearns was his early banking career. And then he later was doing all of his money laundering and banking and referring of people at J.P. Morgan. They came in, swooped up Bear Stearns for pennies on the dollar. They also later spun liquid funding limited backup. There's a whole, there's a very overt financial paper trail that Jeffrey Epstein was

better acquainted with the problem than almost anyone in the world because he was deeply enmeshed in Bear Stearns and knew the leadership of Bear Stearns very well. Then he understood CDOs and he was selling CDOs. And then he just so happens to wind his whole shop up and close it down and redeem it all right at the moment when things are about to go bust. So that's a wild rabbit hole and it's very interesting. But I mean, what is, I mean, that, that suggests, what doesn't suggest it's like direct evidence of if,

I'm assuming we can verify what you're saying, that like the biggest events in the world are actually not quite as organic or accidental as were led to believe. and that, you know, this is like puppet master stuff. I mean, it is. I don't know what to say. I don't want this to be true, but that's what it looks like. Yeah, and the reason why I feel comfortable saying that is because I actually did produce an entire YouTube video on teleprompter with my sources directly in front of my face.

They're on screen. It's on my YouTube right now. Yes. I think it's titled Jeffrey Epstein knew or he knew. And I put it out middle to late last year and walked through, you know, document by document. Not that we know for sure, not that he like, you know, schemed it with his Illuminati buddies, but he was right at the heart of it, had all the knowledge of it, he was deeply connected to all the parties in it, and then like the timing is just so coincidental.

And yeah, it does start to make you wonder about how much of our global events are orchestrated versus not, but then you know you think about the global pandemic and you think about, like, we've got documents in the EFSI files that they're talking about getting a war in Ukraine started and how that's going to be good for business. And so these files have a lot of these world events sort of woven throughout them, either directly or indirectly. It's sometimes hard to say. But the reason I think why Jeffrey Epstein is at the center of so many of these things

and at the center of so many circles, and at the center of so many important and powerful networks in our world is because Jeffrey Epstein was a professional money launderer. There's sort of this facade as though we don't know how Jeffrey Epstein made his money. And then there's also a lot of people that will erroneously report that Jeffrey Epstein made his money in legitimate ways, but then got into crime or whatever. It's like, that is not true. Jeffrey Epstein went from legitimate-ish banking at Bear Stearns, where he was managing private wealth for clients. And then in the 80s, he went into his missing years, where he said

that he was a bounty hunter for billionaires. But we have lots and lots of evidence that during that time, he was working with arms traffickers, Douglas Lees, Anon Kishoggi, and Robert Maxwell, and getting into money laundering for arms dealers because he was exceptionally good at complex financial transactions, using derivatives, using tax havens, using charitable structures of complex charitable organizations like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the Clinton Global Initiative. And he got better and better throughout his career at basically committing complex financial frauds, like the Tower Financials fraud that he was a major part of. And so when you get to the end of that line and he is getting into the actual human trafficking

side of it, the blackmailing side of it, money launders are the node that all criminal networks have to flow through. Money laundering is the network, the node that any, because it's not just like money laundering for criminal stuff. It's also if a billionaire wants to shelter their taxes or wants to pay less in taxes. And you can read the reporting about how Jeffrey Epstein referred Bill Gates and Sergei Brin and Benjamin Netanyahu and Larry Summers to J.P. Morgan for banking services. He referred a bunch of the wealthiest, most powerful people in the world to J.P. Morgan for banking services, right?

Which is completely nonsensical if you take it at face value. But when you realize that. that that's like how when you're in high school and you need to know the guy that knows the weed dealer in order to get into like, you know, the back door. It's like you need that trust network in a criminal space because criminals have to operate on trust. And so it's like you know a guy that knows a guy

to get you in the back door for the back door of the banking system is what that looks like to me. And who would know that better than Jeffrey Epstein? And so you, there's, There's this false narrative that we don't know how he made his money. We don't know what the network, like we don't, that we don't know, don't know, don't know. And what that means is that those people have not read what we do know. And there's a lot we still don't know.

But how Jeffrey Epstein made his money and why he was at the center of so much is not the great mystery that it once was anymore. So here's my big picture concern is that, you know, all these, our country and the entire West, you know, the structure is representative democracy, some version of that, like the people rule. And it is therefore, these are all voluntary systems. Like people participate in the system. They pay their taxes. They obey the law. They vote.

They abide by the results of those elections. Like, all of this is just voluntary because we all believe that despite corruption and imperfection, the systems themselves are legitimate. They're kind of run on the basis of what they tell us they're doing. Like, this is all for our benefit. If people decide that, like, it's all fake. It's all totally corrupt. Our welfare has nothing to do with why these systems are running.

It's all like a scam. I don't know, like, what happens then? When you know this much about the corruption, can any of these systems continue? And I should just say, for whatever it's worth it, I like a lot of these systems. I grew up with them. I'm for democracy. I'm for, you know, transparent justice and all that stuff. I'm not for tearing it all down, but I just, I'm starting to wonder, like, can any of this keep going now that we know a lot of the truth? Yeah, that is the million dollar question. And think, so I'm 33 years old

right now, and I'm sort of of the 9-11 generation. And I shudder to imagine how a 21-year-old must feel today or a 15-year-old must feel today. Because even, at my age, as sort of like a still younger kind of adult, moving into, like, my generation is supposed to be moving into leadership roles and moving into positions of taking on the mantle of, like, leading our country in the next, you know, five to ten years. And we all grew up in this world where the first thing we knew as, like, young, thinking adults was 9-11. And every event since then has felt like a facade. It's all felt like lies. It's all felt like deception. And it's culminated. in this moment where we get this massive dump of information that just explicitly tells us

that all the way back to Bill Clinton's presidency and even before in a lot of ways, our government has been blackmailed on behalf of a foreign, malign, malignant sort of an interest that then when we all see in 2019 that this guy gets charged, they get all this evidence, it is now 2026, that is seven years of the American government doing absolutely nothing with this case, not prosecuting anyone, except for Galane a little bit, not ask any questions, no investigations, we're like, we're told that this is America. We're told that this is, you know, the greatest country on earth, and what you would expect then from any decent country or any decent person, if you shrunk this down to a smaller kind of a frame of reference,

is you would expect that you deal with it. You deal with it. You don't let people abuse children. You don't let people blackmail your politicians. You don't let people control your financial networks through coercion and bribery and control like this. And so when people in their 20s and 30s and everyone of every age sees that for decades now,

our nation has been co-opted from the inside. And then when they find that co-option, and then still nothing is done. In fact, it's actually actively covered up for almost 20 years now since the initial sweetheart deal. Yeah, I don't know how you... I don't know how you come back from that.

And that's where it feels a little bit more like... You remember that? there's a famous tape that goes around of Yuri Besmanov, I think his name is, describing KGE's subversion, subversion of a nation, and the stages of subversion. I kind of shuddered to think this part of it all through, but it really does make me feel like almost like we've been cast from worth being controlled to now just being subverted. because when you've been that deeply compromised for that long, it's almost reminds me of like the man that has let his values slip for so long,

has been lost in the bottle for so long, or has been cheating for so long, that once the lies all come out, once the pain all comes out, it's like there's no man left. There's no, which is like, that's an unacceptable state of being.

That's an unacceptable answer. I'm trying to raise a family in this country. I'm trying to raise children. I'm trying to have a future. And so I think there's people at all different stages of grief with this thing and rage with this thing. And I think that maybe people that skew older, maybe skew more towards trying to ignore it. And I think that people that skew younger maybe also like giving up about it. But I'm somewhere in the middle where it's like rage because this is like,

we're supposed to have a future here. And I'm of the generation that's supposed to be here to do something about it. And everyone from my generation up to like Cash Patel's generation, for example, everyone of power seems to be just complicit or weak and spineless or unwilling to do something, unable to do something. So I don't know what the solution is, but it's just, It's unacceptable to me that there isn't one. Well, that's right.

But you also, like, at the end of what you just said, you said people younger than you just accept it. I mean, older people can't deal with it. It's too much. It's too different from what they previously believed. And I understand. They're tormented by it. Like, I don't believe this. It's all crazy.

And by the way, I'm probably closer that generation. I am closer than you are. And I kind of felt that way. Yeah. This is too crazy. This can't be real. I took my kids to brunch a common pizza. I know the guys who own it.

Like, there's no way this can be real, right? I mean, I'll just admit it. I felt that way. I was wrong, obviously. But I get that. But much more disturbing is not just that boomers are, you know, out of it. We knew that. But that young people are just like so basically have been made, let's just be honest,

so decadent in their thinking that they're just like, yeah, of course. You know, like, of course we're ruled by satanic pedophiles. like, how terrible is that that people are growing up in this country just assuming that the most grotesque crimes are the way things are? It's terrifying. It's absolutely terrifying. It's like the generation of children born into the camp that have never known anything else. Right.

They've never known the freedom. They've never known, you know, the sunlight. And for me, somewhere. in the middle there, when I look at what that future looks like, if you let that subversion slide into one more generation, it's like, is it maybe that you never come back out? Do you never have a respectful country again? Do you never have the will to stand on your two feet and stand up for your rights as a human again? Because I'm somewhere in the middle there where like, I at least remember when we all believed that we had a country. And when we all believed that

there was democracy. And we all believed that there was something going on here and that we would have a future. And looking at young people growing up, starting to accept that this is just the way it is and that nothing will ever be done, I shuddered to think of if this generation doesn't pull it together and do something about this, and instead we let the next generation grow into just being sedated by all the flashing lights and the phones and the TikToks and the whatever else and just kind of sliding into the soma of it all, so to speak. That is the most horrifying idea in my mind ever. And that's like rage against the dying of the light. That is, there is no worse fate in my opinion. Like death before sort of that

slide down into the matrix, so to speak. And it does feel like this is the time. It feels like it's when is the time, if not when three million documents come out. So obviously we're just, I mean, I'm traveling. We're not, this just happened. You can't process this stuff quickly enough. I mean, this is, we're just touching the surface of what's there, trying to sort through what's true and what's not, or even just to absorb it. Like, what's in those documents. So this is just the beginning, but I'm grateful that you do this because I think you're an honest man, and I measure that in one simple test, are you willing to admit if you're wrong? And you have demonstrated again and again, if you think you're wrong about something you'll say,

I think I was wrong about it. So that's what an honest man does. So I think you're honest, I think you're obviously very smart. You see the big picture, and you care. So I just want to end on two questions. Where for people trying to assess this, is a place to get more information about these documents. Like, where, as a practical matter, like, where can you go to fight? You can't just, like, scroll through Twitter all day. Like, where can you find stuff, the primary documents? And two, what threads are you, you personally, in Carroll, following up on, like, really getting into in greater detail and where can people find them?

my recommendation for where people should go to look into this for yourself is to double check for yourself basically is you should pair two things together one should be the primary source and it should always be the primary source which is justice.gov slash Epstein and you should have that website open and you should have the search bar right there and anytime you see a reel on Instagram or a TikTok or something on X, you can pause that and you can screenshot it and you can zoom in

and you can look at the words that are in that email or in that correspondence. And if you string together three, four, five words exactly as they appear in what you're seeing and you put those words into the search bar, you'll find that email immediately. Because there's only so many emails that have, thank you for including me last night in it. And if you type, thank you for including me last night into that search bar, you'll pull up this one that I have on my screen right now where it ends with, it was fun to catch up with all the girls. And so that is a way that you can,

anytime you see someone referencing something that's in these files, take a quotation out, plug it on that search bar, and double check it for yourself. Because there's a lot of stuff, like it went super viral, that Jeffrey Epstein was Zoran Mamdani's dad, which is not true at all. And it was just like running away with this mad, you know, social media energy.

So double check things for yourself. That's where I would go. I mean, and so with that in mind, then you're equipped to go watch YouTubers and go watch TikToks and go scroll X if you want to and just, you know, absorb it however you want to absorb it. Just remember to think for yourself and double check for yourself and take your time because there's so much here

that a lot of people are jumping on narratives too quick. A lot of people are chasing clicks too much. And it's going to take months and maybe even years if the DOJ doesn't help for us to actually unravel everything that is in there. So take your time. As for me, I'm actually working on a tool designed to help everyone do this. We're naming it Webb after Gary Webb, and we're going to give it out to everybody, where we're just going to put all the documents in and cross-reference them all.

We're kind of like using a bunch of complex AI because I wanted to do it. And my buddy was like, hey, we can build that way better. And so basically building a tool where instead of just having a search bar, you can have conversations with all the documents, but actually have them primary source right there. So that when you want to know what's in the documents, you can get summaries of them, you can ask questions about it, you can search them all, but actually have the original primary sources there.

So that's actually what I'm kind of like diving into really hard this week because it's, you know, I can search for the word pizza and pull up 851 results and open them one by, one all day long. But ultimately, this data set is just way too vast, and we need to make tools that let journalists dig through it in complex ways. Because obviously, the DOJ wanted it to be... Let's say that I suspect that the DOJ was not very interested in making them very

accessible, as noted by them not giving us zip downloads to even download them with this time. So, trying to make them more accessible myself and others. Can I suggest a thread... you know, for a younger, more energetic man to follow up on. Absolutely. And that's Epstein's fixation on genetics and biotechnology. And it's very clear to me, well, much is not clear to me at all. And I don't understand this category very well.

I'm not a scientist or geneticist. But I have noticed, not just with Epstein, but with a bunch of people in Epstein's orbit, there is a fixation on genetics and changing genetics and improving people and cloning and really kind of tampering with the material of life in a way that someone who believed he was Godwood or someone who's involved in the supernatural wood. I mean, there's really heavy stuff here and that really, really matters. And I have not seen anybody go into that in a methodical way at all. Yeah, I absolutely agree. There's a bunch of about genetics and there's actually some stuff about transgenderism in there.

That's very fascinating and tend to look into that. And then one other thread that you remind me of that I'm, I was digging, I've been digging into actually for a couple of years now and then it was just producing moron because there's a bunch more on it is his Hollywood media connections through this woman named Peggy Seagall that is, she is one of Hollywood's most famous madams that had her book of contacts that was getting Epstein into all these parties. and she's one of those nodes of this connection, this network that was immediately pushed to the side

and hidden in the shadows. She was blacklisted from all of Hollywood immediately, and I am very suspicious about why that was and why that still is. And so there's just loose threads in so many directions. And I kind of get led by what's the most, like, for example, the genetics, what's the most messed up or scary or sketchy?

direction that he's going. And then the other thing that kind of pulls me in a direction is, what's the most, where's the dig that looks like there's the most in it, about whatever topic? And so those are two that very much have my attention. In Carroll, thank you for taking the time to do this. Again, we're just at the very beginning. But I felt like a lot of us, maybe all of us,

were being manipulated in the way that we respond to these files. clearly we are. And so I just wanted to stop and reorient what we know is true at this early time and how should we be thinking about it. And as usual, you just delivered. So thank you. Thanks a lot, Tucker. Appreciate it.