The Tucker Carlson Show - War With Iran? The Prime Minister of Qatar Is Being Attacked in the Media for Wanting to Stop It
Episode Date: March 7, 2025There’s enormous pressure on the United States to participate in a brand new war against Iran. The government of Qatar thinks that’s unwise, so of course they’re being slandered relentlessly in ...American media. Qatar’s prime minister, Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani, explains. (00:00) How the Left Used the World Cup to Attack Qatar (03:03) Cultural Imperialism (04:37) Attacks on the Nuclear Family Worldwide (09:23) Why Does Corporate Media Hate Qatar? (12:41) Qatar’s Hamas Office (20:00) Is Qatar an Enemy of the United States? Paid partnerships with: ExpressVPN: Go to https://ExpressVPN.com/Tucker and find out how you can get 4 months of ExpressVPN free! Cozy Earth: https://CozyEarth.com/Tucker code TUCKER Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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Thank you very much. So you had the World Cup a few years ago here.
It was very widely covered around the world.
And part of the coverage, maybe the majority of the coverage was not about soccer, football. It was about your country
and how it was, you know,
needed to come into
line with the social mores of the West,
etc. There was a lot of lecturing about
to your country about
the way that you live. Did you
feel that? Well, it's
unfortunate, you know, there are
the whole
purpose of hosting the World Cup
is to bring the world together in that country,
to put the country in the spotlight about the football,
about the tournament, and about people coming together.
Unfortunately, countries and some NGOs
try to use this as an opportunity to attack
on values of the society itself, on the values of the country,
of the community, by using it as an opportunity to change these values and to impose their own
values on our country and our people. That's something that was expected from our side,
that we will be attacked. We will be hearing a lot of lectures about values and things that are not
belongs to us. And basically, our decision from the beginning that we don't need to change the
country for one month tournament, and I cannot change the value of a whole society and impose on them values that I don't believe in.
And it's against every principle in our society,
against the principles of Islam,
against the principles of Christianity as well.
And that's basically, we said very clear,
we respect everybody who's coming here
as long as they are respecting the laws in that country,
as you are expecting from the Qataris
when they visit any of your countries in Europe,
to respect your laws.
And basically, that's what we want from the people.
Anything happen in their personal life,
it's their personal life.
But nothing should happen in public
against the laws of the state
of Qatar, and we will never change. The problem that those countries and NGOs put a lot of efforts
in demonizing this World Cup in order to impose their values, yet there were many things happening around the world and they are just turning a blind
eye.
If they put some efforts and energy on those real issues that are affecting the human lives
around the world, it would be much better than the waste investment that was in campaigns
against the country to change its values, to impose new values which are not even related to us.
So why do you think that is?
This used to be called cultural imperialism,
taking your values and using force to impose them on another society.
But this is probably the richest country per capita in the world.
It's free. Qataris can come and go.
They don't have to live here. They choose to live here.
And your values are thousands of years old.
Why would it be important for an NGO?
I thought they were supposed to be feeding people,
but instead they're yelling at you for not having enough transgender Qataris.
Like, what is the point of that?
What do you think that actually is?
What are they trying to do?
Well, I think it's mainly driven by an agenda that these are the things that we would like to see in countries that they are not
accepting it, you know, and societies that they are not accepting it. We need to make it normal
for them. We need to normalize it. Second, a lot didn't accept the fact that Qatar is a small Arab
country, can host a world-class tournament. Basically, they were like, you know, how a lot
of attacks that why Qatar won the World Cup, like they don't have even the culture of
the World Cup. I don't know what's, you know, what does it mean if I am a country, like a marginal
country, I don't have the right to host a world tournament. And this is more about, honestly,
like I see it like more racism and superiority. And that's basically, I think, the main driver for
this.
An official here told me a funny story and I want to check to see if it's true.
This person told me that some
bureau or commission in the United
Nations was raiding
the human rights here
in Qatar and said
in order to score higher, you have to build
nursing homes for your old
people to live. And this person tried to explain, you know, we don't build nursing homes for your old people to live.
And this person tried to explain, you know, we don't have nursing homes because old people,
parents live with their children. But you built them anyway in order to get a higher score on this, and they remained empty. Is that true? Well, it is true, actually. They are like,
you know, sometimes when you have international organizations trying to impose certain conditions in order to give you, like, the better status that will make you look good,
it requires from you some steps that you will do that.
It's not even needed here in this kind of society.
Look, Qatar is a very small
country the people here family matters for us parents matters for us we are in
debt to our parents until the last day in their life or in our lives whatever
comes first if someone will left his will leave his parents alone without taking care of it,
he will be publicly shamed by the society.
It's not really an acceptable custom or habit in this country
to have your elder, to have your parents staying in a senior home.
He's the one, the parents are the ones who took care
of us when we were children until we grew up to become independent. And we should, we
have the duty to take care of them. And that's really the genuine nature of the Qatari society.
So that's why you end up with something that you don't need.
It's not
according to your value.
It's not according to your religion.
But
we build it anyway to get
the fancy
branding.
If you take three steps back,
it's like they're mad at you because you don't
have enough transgenders. They're mad at you because you don't have enough transgenders.
They're mad at you because you don't put your parents in some institution.
Maybe they're trying to break up your families.
Well, it can be a reason.
Honestly, I don't know what is really the purpose behind this.
But we see that a lot of things that are happening are attacks on humanity in general.
It's when you lose the family value, when you lose the connection between the family themselves,
you will lose the connection between the people as well on a broader level,
on the people in the same neighborhood, on the people in the same region, in the same countries.
And that basically will just make us, you know, as individuals who are, quote-unquote, independent from anyone.
That's what we will feel. Yet, it will just make our societies vulnerable and easy to be penetrated.
That's right.
And that's, I think, the main issue that we are facing
and the main threat that we are facing.
You have seen,
Thakur, you spent
now a few days in Qatar and you have seen
you came to my home and you have seen that
my home is surrounded by my family
homes. And it's not
I'm not really living
in isolation from
them.
The nuclear family,
the bigger family, and it's
like, it's all one
community, one
family.
And basically, you can apply
this and magnify it to the entire country.
This is not the case
for Mohammed. This is the case for
everyone here.
People, even when they move temporarily to another neighborhood or to another place,
10 minutes away from their family, they feel homesick.
So we believe that this is supposed to be the case for all the countries where families, families, bonds, matters, families,
bonds, really create from you, from your society, a strong society that's not easily penetrated.
And that's what creates the national unity as well in face of external threats and everything.
So that's kind of the key is that when you are cut off, when you're alone, you are powerless, and you can be controlled.
Yeah.
You can be penetrated.
You can be penetrated, yes. Very true.
Your country has been in the American media sporadically recently, and it's under attack for reasons I don't fully understand.
One of the reasons I wanted to come here was to understand why people are mad at you.
And I think you've got the biggest overseas U.S. air base right near here.
So you're clearly a U.S. ally.
But I keep reading reference to Qatar as anti-American or pro-Islamist or a threat to the United States somehow. Where do those attacks come from, do you think?
Look, as a country, we always want to do the right things. And basically, the right things,
not only for our people, but for our people, for our region, and for our friends.
And when you are trying to do the right things, sometimes you change your mind, you know,
when you hear this kind of criticism.
But it wasn't really in our culture,
because we believe that it serves the real cause
behind all these efforts, is to bring peace.
Peace for the people, peace for the region,
and peace for our friends.
And basically, the peace is the main foundation for us, for our people to prosper. And peace
has a lot of enemies. A lot of enemies who wants to undermine it for political reason,
who wants to undermine it for economical reason, who wants to demonize
your effort in order to make sure that every step you will take will be suspicious in order control also the parties that you are helping in that and basically they don't know by doing
such a thing they are not harming us but they are harming the region and they are harming our
friends including the united states and having an an ally and partner and friend like Qatar
with the airbase as one example
and working together very closely on a lot of issues,
a lot of files,
helping bringing Americans home from different countries,
whether it was in the evacuation of Afghanistan,
whether it's in American hostages all around the world,
mediating in different conflicts.
They basically, if they, you know,
keep criticizing Qatar and attacking Qatar,
they think that this is just harming Qatar
and Qatar reputation.
It's not.
It's actually because we always like, you know, we go back to the results.
We focus on the outcome and we think about it,
that that should be our objective and we should focus there
and we shouldn't really disturb ourselves with any noise.
But they don't know that this is harming the U.S.
and the U.S. interests at the end of the day.
So, my sense
is that part of the
criticism and the confusion from Americans
are, I think,
two causes. One,
you have a Hamas office here.
And
Hamas has been designated, I think,
repeatedly by the U.S. government
and certainly by the Congress as a terror organization.
And people say, well, how could you have a Hamas office here?
What is that?
We have to go back to the root of this, of this office.
Like, why it's here in the first place?
And Hamas office, when it was opened here in the first place,
it was opened with in the first place, it was opened
with full transparency
and full consultation
and actually even request
from the U.S.
The U.S. asked you
to put a Hamas office here?
They are actually.
They have asked us
to open the channels with them
and to have an established
communication channel
with the same case
what was applied to Taliban
as well. And look, with the same case what was applied to Taliban as well.
And look, at the end of the day,
if you have a presence of someone in your country
and you are engaging and talking,
it doesn't mean that you are endorsing his ideas.
It doesn't mean that you are supporting him.
The purpose of this office was to facilitate peace,
to stabilize the region, and to make sure that always it's serving the purpose.
And you can go through even everything that, all the events that happened in the recent 10 years since the office was officially opened here in Doha.
How many peace deals have been brokered from that office through that channel?
Many of them.
2014 was the discussion and negotiations
was initiated here and ended in Egypt.
In 2018, 2020 and 2021,
with all those escalations and
many of
escalations that we avoided
preventables.
There are many, plenty of
them. You will lose count.
Then, after
7th of October,
the first hostage deal that
released the hostages,
the women and children,
and the foreigners, was 109 hostages. November 23 happened through that office. Second hostage deal, which we are
going through right now, it was produced out of this office. So the office is a communication channel and it doesn't make me you know feeling shy that i speak
with someone whom i have a disagreement with president trump spoke with north korea
he didn't shy out he met with him he engaged with him He wants to put an end for the conflict. He wants to make a deal with him. He's a dealmaker. And this country basically is brokering deals.
Initially at the request of the Emir,
we are sure that every step we are taking, we are very transparent, coordinating with the U.S.
and making sure that we are doing the right thing.
So I have nothing wrong that I did that I am shying away from.
I know that we have a lot of attacks and unfortunately we have attacks from the US legislation,
like from the Congress many times that although we did it at the request of
the government
yet
the emir always tell me that
if
we are able to save a single
life, it's worth
everything. And I'll tell
you something, we've been under
a significant attack in the last 15 months during this war in Gaza.
Unbelievable.
No one would handle such an attack.
And we worked tirelessly on achieving this deal. And the moment we went out to announce that deal being achieved and we see the celebration
in the streets, whether it's in Gaza or in Israel, that moment makes us forget everything.
You've been attacked with the U.S. Congress. The core question for me is, if Qatarsi is an enemy of
the United States, why is our air base here? Have there been calls to remove the air base?
Well, there are like some voices who unfortunately very much misinformed that
this is very critical for the U.S., for the U for the US security to be here in this region.
And, you know,
actually the base itself,
when it's moved, the first place
was moved after September 11th
to Doha. And it was
a very risky decision for any
country to take it. And we took it.
We took it because of the friendship
that we have with the US, because
of the partnership that we are committing ourselves together with the U.S.
And it turned out to be like the most important U.S. base outside the United States.
And basically it served the security of the United States, but also it served the stability of this region. If you're like us, you're probably a little tired of companies that claim to care about your privacy and then whip around without
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So the president's envoy in this region and to Ukraine and globally at this point is Steve Witkoff, his friend.
And Witkoff, who I think has done a good, for the record, I think has done a good job,
but was attacked in some U.S. media for his, he had done business in your country.
And he was attacked as a tool of your government.
Well, you know,
sometimes when you read the reports about Qatar, you feel that this is a superpower that controls, you know, everyone and everyone is a tool in the hand of Qatar. Look, this is all a
joke. Steve is a respected businessman. He has done business. We didn't do anything wrong with him.
We have done business.
I've known him for a long time.
I attended his son's wedding.
I have a personal relationship,
and all this happened before even the election.
You know, before the election taking place,
this was, I think, last February,
just months before the election.
And this friendship and relationship,
it means that there is a trust between two people.
And this trust will, of course, matter for, you know,
the working relationship that we have
and partnership that U.S. and Qatar has.
And it benefited the deal at the end of the day.
The man traveled all the way.
He stayed here. He spent a few days in Doha. He participated with us in the negotiation. He pushed
when it was required. He did a great job. We, as, you know, as partners, we achieved the deal at the
end of the day. The deal wouldn't be achieved without, you know,
with Qatar single-handedly or with the United States single-handedly.
He needs all of us.
All of us are one team and work together.
Now, people are attacking him for his relation with Qatar
and being a tool in Qatar.
If you go back and trace back,
those people who are not interested in having a deal,
not interested in having...
They put their political interests
ahead of the interests of even the hostages themselves.
How many families in Israel celebrated the return of their loved ones?
I'm not going to talk about Gaza.
There's hundreds of thousands of people.
They've been fed after a very long war.
But just, you know, if you look at this and look at the ones who attacked
someone like Steve Whitcow, who achieved and succeeded reaching this deal because of his
relation with Qatar, is to make sure that the next time he calculated his but Steve is great man straight shooter doesn't matter for him as
it doesn't matter for us we are friends yes this is something I feel proud of that I have
many friends in the United States and those friends might become, you know, in certain positions, whether in
this administration or in the future administration. It doesn't mean that, you know, those friends
will be like a tool in our hand or Qatar hand. And basically, the people who are using this, they just, you know, the problem that they cannot take it that a small country can get the results.
They always have to think about an external factor that bringing them these results.
And when they look at it as a small country and with this amount of resources, the first thing that will come to their mind,
oh, they are bribing everyone.
I'm a country like any other country.
I'm operating like any other country.
I protect my people's interest.
I protect my region's interest.
I protect my friends.
And that's what will always continue the same way.
So Trump gets elected in November, inaugurated in January,
and immediately there's a ceasefire.
Almost immediately, with Steve Whitcomb.
Reading the negotiations with your help.
But that's coming after years of bloodshed,
utterly destabilizing this part of the world, the world itself.
Where was the Biden administration during all of that?
Look, Tucker, what's really making me feel sad
that the agreement that we have achieved on the 15th of January this year
is almost 95% the framework that's been agreed in December
and the agreement that's been agreed in March, 24.
And it took all these months in order to put it in motion.
With the previous administration, we were working very closely. The director of CIA
is someone that I worked with, I respect a lot. And we did, you know, an exemplary.
But at the end of the day, I think it's the calculations of one party over the other.
That, why would I do it now? Let me wait.
And then President Trump, of course,
they know there is no deal happening before the inauguration, as he announced.
It might have consequences.
And I believe that played a big role in this.
But the fact is, they couldn't get a deal done and he did. I think this is, look, also the way that Steve has managed to represent President Trump was also a very effective way.
One of the criticisms of your country is that you're too close to Iran.
I should say you're very physically close to Iran.
Yeah, we are physically close.
How close? It's
around 120 miles
away. Right across the
water? Yeah. It's just
you know, you can have
a boat ride in 90 minutes
you are there.
So, how would
you describe your relationship with Iran?
And why do you think you're being criticized for it?
Look, it's, you know, Iran has a lot of problems with the West.
We understand that. We acknowledge that.
They have problems with the region, with countries in the region, yes.
At the end of the day, Iran is, you know, our next door neighbor.
And we have to have to maintain a good relation with all our neighbors
we have a lot of things
in common when it comes to
the gas field
the largest gas field in the world
it's partnership between us
and Iran
two thirds of it is in the Qatari territory,
and one-third is in the Iranian territory.
This is in the Gulf. This is under sea.
Yeah, this is the one in the Gulf Sea.
You have...
I have to coordinate on environmental issues,
like, for example, the water contaminations.
I have to coordinate on security issues like smuggling.
I have to have this relationship, this working relationship with Iran.
But also when you think about it from a bigger perspective, it's for the interest of the region
to have a better relation for everyone in the region with Iran. And you have seen that there
is a huge progress in the relationship with Iran and the GCC, between Iran and the GCC in the last
few years. And basically, even the disagreement that we had in certain policies, for example,
we worked against each other in Syria for 14 years.
Against Iran.
Against Iran, yeah.
Right, which was backing Hezbollah when you were opposed.
And the same thing in Lebanon.
And those differences are put aside when it comes to the bilateral as a relationship of necessity, that we need to have this engagement together all the time. Those disagreements, we talk about them, we try to understand each other's concern,
and we try to find a common ground. And basically, that's what we expect from other countries to do when they are around neighbors that some others have disagreements with.
You need to engage.
Now, this is criticized in the U.S. that we are close to Iran.
In terms of what?
In terms of policies that have controversies with the U.S.? It's not true.
Our policies have been very clear. Our policy is based on principles. Our policy has zero enemies.
We have to have friends with everyone. We would like to see peace in our region. We would like to see peace around the world. If we see innocent
people under attack, whatever their backgrounds, we will always help them and we'll support
them. These are the things that our foreign policy is standing for. So if they see me
that this is like putting me on a club on the other.
They are watching me from thousands of miles away.
They don't know what's happening in this region.
They have no knowledge about it.
This relationship, it's an important relationship, not for me, for the entire GCC and for the entire GCC stability.
Look, Tucker, I think that there is a misunderstanding.
Or let's say maybe it's more about a legacy issue.
That the US needs to take care of the whole world problem.
This shouldn't be the case.
Each region needs to address their own problems, needs to make sure that this region is stable.
The US is the friend and the ally and partner of all the GCC countries.
So the US expects from us to come to them with vision, that this is the way we would
like to see the region, and that's the way we would like to see the region,
and that's the way we are going to work on the region.
And we would like to have also your support in that direction.
That's, I believe, how the relationship should work
between us and the U.S.
Not, I'm waiting for the U.S.,
what's the problem between them and Iran,
and then I based my dealing with Iran based on what the US want.
The US is waiting to listen to me what I need from Iran, because I am the friend of the
US and Iran is my next door neighbor.
And basically I think this misunderstanding or let's say the legacy issue, that's what's
driving this whole narrative floating here and there.
I think that you know
one day everything will be
resolved diplomatically.
If I take a stand against my neighbor
because of
an external issue
very strong stand
what I'm going
to do if
those two adversaries come together.
So I think it's the policy of your government that you oppose Iran getting nuclear weapons.
Certainly your neighbors are on the record against it. How close do you think Iran is
to getting a nuclear weapon, to building one? Well, look, actually, a nuclear weapon is bad for the region,
for any country, whether it's Iran or any other country.
But also, like, when it comes to, you know, developing a nuclear program,
there are concerns, of course, whenever any nuclear program
is developed around your region.
And those concerns can be not only military concerns,
but also security and, like, safety concerns.
As I mentioned to you, if the water is contaminated,
the nuclear facilities of Iran are on the other side of the coast.
It's closer to Doha than Tehran itself.
So the risks and the threats is affecting me, my country,
affecting other countries in the GCC more even.
So there's a nuclear site directly across from you.
Yeah. And that's basically, you know, that's why it's putting the entire region in a lot of risk.
There is no clear standards for managing those nuclear facilities.
And those clear standards ensuring that this is a nuclear power plant that will be used for peaceful use.
Now, who is right and who is wrong, this is not for me to judge.
Yet, what we would like to see, we would like to see a nuclear program that have complying with the international standard. We are speaking with the Iranians all the time
that we need to work together,
we need to work with the IAEA
in order to ensure that those standards are followed.
There are a lot of news and headlines.
We see that Iran is close to a nuclear weapon.
This is nothing we have ever heard,
we have ever seen, I mean, or experienced.
Even our engagement with the leaders there,
even with the Supreme Leader,
he said very clearly that he has issued a fatwa,
or a declaration that Iran will never go for a nuclear bomb.
And basically, this has also its moral status within the country.
So I hope that we can reach to a solution, a diplomatic solution, where
there is prosperity for the region, sanctions are lifted, nuclear program is peaceful and assurances for the entire region. And this will be, I think,
a booster for the region development and prosperity.
So there's a great deal of pressure in Washington on the White House and on the Congress to
participate in or sign off on an attack, an aerial bombardment of the Iran nuclear sites,
however many there actually are,
one of which, as you said, is directly across from you,
so you think about this a lot.
What would be the consequences if that happens?
And that's not theoretical, as you know, that could happen soon.
What would happen next?
Well, I think it will just be a start of a war
that will spread all over the region.
And basically, do we expect from any country to get attacked and to stay silent?
There will be a reaction.
Those reactions and retaliations, where is it going to be?
Are they going to reach thousands of miles away?
They are going to be in the region.
And basically, every be in the region.
And basically, every country in the region are concerned from such a step because it will affect our security, number one.
But also for a country like the U.S., it will affect their security as well.
They have a big stake in that region. Whether it's a military basis,
whether it's energy facilities in that region,
economic interest, forget about everything, educational facilities.
So all those, you know, interests will be affected if something, God forbid, erupts in that region.
Look, there is no way that Qatar would support any kind of military step in that region.
And we will not give up until we see a diplomatic solution between the U.S. and Iran.
This needs to reach to an agreement.
May I ask, just going back a second,
you've said that there's the Iranian nuclear facility directly across the water from you. If that were blown up and nuclear material wound up in the water, since it's right on the water, what would happen to the water?
This would be basically entirely contaminated.
We have run this exercise of risk in the country.
A few years ago, before we built our reservoirs, we had the water that we use for our people
is from desalination.
And we don't have rivers, we don't have water reserves.
And basically the country would run out of water
in three days.
So our country?
The whole country.
Now, after the reservoirs, we increased that capacity
and we are keep increasing it.
But this is not only applied for Qatar.
This is applied for Qatar, this is applied for Kuwait, this is applied for UAE.
It's all of us in that part.
So if that nuclear site gets blown up and nuclear material winds up in the water, none of those countries have water?
No water, no fish, nothing. It has no life.
Oh, so that would be a history-changing environmental catastrophe.
It is an environmental catastrophe. That's why I'm telling you that the position of Qatar in the map and the region with Iran, a lot of people, they the U.S. Congress, and I was meeting with one U.S. senator.
And we were talking, discussing about Iran.
He said, basically, you don't have to deal with them.
And I drew for him a map on his desk.
For the first time, he realized that
these two countries are that close to each other.
So there are a lot who doesn't see this region
as close, you know, to Iran
and like it's too intertwined.
So they don't have maps in the Senate?
No, they do have maps,
but probably they don't know how to spot Qatar.
We are very small.
Do you think, I mean, to the extent you can say, I should say you're the prime minister, but de-escalate through negotiation, open up its nuclear sites to international inspection of some kind, reassure the world they're not two weeks away from getting a bomb as we read practically every day on the Internet, whether it's true or not?
I mean, do you think that's achievable?
Well, I think it is achievable. And actually, all the engagement that we had with
Iranian officials, as I mentioned to you, we were just there a few days ago, actually,
and engaging with the president, engaging with the Supreme Leader, with the foreign minister over
there, in order to find a diplomatic solution. And basically, they are willing to engage, they are willing to
get to a level that creates comforts for everybody. And most importantly, they are focused on
mending their relationship with the region. And that's something in itself, it can create a lot
of progress in every front with Iran.
So I believe there is an opportunity.
Now, we come back to the question, the chicken and the egg, which come first.
I believe we should forget about these questions and get the parties together.
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concerns. And basically, if everything is complying with the international standards,
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There's talk in the United States of increasing sanctions on Iran.
I didn't know that was possible, but Iran has been under some form of sanctions for almost 50 years,
46 years, I think. Have they achieved their intended goal? And bigger picture, have you ever seen sanctions
against anybody achieve their intended goal? Look, this issue is very controversial. First,
as a principle for my country, for the state of Qatar, we see unilateral sanctions are
ineffective. And it's punishment of punishing
the people, not punishing a country or regime. That's number one.
They still have the revolutionary government from 1979 in power, right?
Yes. Yeah. I mean, if it would lead to a result, we wouldn't be in that situation until now.
Fidel Castro died in Havana after 50 years of U.S. sanctions.
So just
going back, sanctions, what does it create?
It pressures the people.
It starves them. It creates
black markets. It creates
a whole illegal system.
If the sanctions
are coming out of the U.S.,
it actually prevents
all the U.S. interests or
companies to have business and lose the opportunities for other countries.
So I don't see a world where the sanctions work.
Honestly, for us, as I told you, it's a core principle in our foreign policy.
We refuse. We don't support sanctions at all.
And sanctioning countries I'm talking about.
And sanctioning countries
is just making
the situation much worse.
So three of the biggest oil producing
countries in the world,
Venezuela, Russia, Iran,
have been under, I mean,
the most extensive sanctions in history.
They're still selling oil though. Oh yeah. Like a lot of oil. Yeah, much have been under, I mean, the most extensive sanctions in history. Yes.
They're still selling oil, though.
Oh, yeah.
Like a lot of oil.
Yeah, much, yeah. I think it's mainly it's sold in different means,
in different currencies.
And look, Tucker, I recall when the Russian sanction came out at the beginning of the war between Russia and Ukraine,
I had an interview in one of the U.S. media channels,
and I said very clearly that sanctions will only create a parallel marketplace for other currencies.
So the dollar-dominated international currency,
you will start to see people moving, countries moving away from that.
Yes.
By the time.
So it won't benefit.
It won't benefit.
It won't get you what you want.
It's the contrary.
That's basically what's been, you know, at the end, like any country like Venezuela, for example, or Iran, they need to survive.
They need to feed their people.
They need to get, you know, at least the basic requirements that they want.
They will find ways to sell their oils. They will find ways to sell their oils.
They will find ways to use other currencies.
They will find markets who will accept them.
And, you know, selling them and buying from them.
And that's basically you created like a parallel market.
And that's what I've been saying.
So you cut out U.S. countries,
you weaken the U.S. dollar,
you make the country more repressive, inevitably,
but you don't dislodge the leadership,
whether it's Putin, Chavez Maduro,
the Ayatollahs in Iran, Fidel Castro,
and you don't prevent them from selling their oil
on international markets.
So why exactly would you levy sanctions?
Honestly, look, from at least, you know, my humble experience
looking at all those sanctioned countries,
in the last, let's say, you know,
I always like to talk about my tenure in diplomacy, which is 10 years.
In the last 10 years, I've seen a lot of sanctions floating around on a lot of countries.
None of these sanctions has achieved the results that's intended for.
I mean, I think that's true.
It's not an ideological point.
That's like factually true, right?
It is factually true, yeah.
So why do we keep doing it?
Just, you know, if you go and name a single country that has a regime change.
Yes.
Or an entire, like, behavior change to the good because of sanction, you will not find any.
Okay, so, again, I don't think what you're saying should be controversial because it's provable.
Yeah.
Go to Wikipedia.
Yeah. Go to Wikipedia. Yeah.
So why, I mean, just, I think this morning I was reading, we're going to sanction this person more.
There's got to be some reason that the U.S. Congress and various administrations have continued to want to do this, even though there's absolute proof that it doesn't work.
What would be the reason to do it? Well, look, as I told you,
when, you know, some, I don't know, honestly,
we can ask this question more for U.S.,
you know, legislator and policymakers,
but I think from my perspective,
this is when you have, like,
if you don't talk to the other party,
if you don't want to use military,
which is something that we never advised for, the only tool will remain in your hand is sanction to show power and to show leverage, which some people, they think that this is
leverage and power, which is not.
Well, it doesn't seem to be.
Power's measurable, right?
Actually, look,
as, you know,
just, you know, if you go
through every, like, every sanctioned
countries, it never achieves
the objective. That's what I want to say.
Yeah, I think that's
true.
How does the Ukraine war end, do you think?
Well, look, you know, there is a lesson that history taught us.
That there is no war started when one of the parties wants the war.
Always two parties, they don't want the war and they end up in a war.
And there is no war ended
without a negotiation around the negotiation table
to find a peaceful solution.
Despite how long it took.
So this war will end at the end of the day around the negotiations.
Now, if you look at the recent efforts that President Trump is doing
together with the Kingdom of Saudi,
I believe this is the right direction, the right path forward.
Because, you know, we were like, when the war started
as a state of Qatar, we always like, you know, express our willingness to help, to support
if there is any chance for mediation. We looked at it, it's something far away, it's in Europe.
Yet, we have some experience in mediation, which is a track record that we have built throughout the year. And we saw that this conflict is too complicated. We were working on the energy file, but unfortunately it didn't work out.
In order to build a foundation for, you know, someone like President Trump to come and to broker a peace deal.
I believe it is the moment. I believe that the steps that's being taken are the right steps.
And basically the way it ends, it should be the way that it addresses both countries' concerns.
I think that the Ukrainians have legitimate concerns that they need to address,
and the Russians have legitimate concerns that the Ukrainians needs to address. And I believe this will never reach a solution unless there is some, you know, direct talks
between them and also some demonstration of support from the partners of both Ukraine
and Russia that they need to put an
end for this and they need to understand each other's concern and they need to take them in
consideration. And the partners' role is to give them the assurances and the comfort that those
considerations will be taken seriously. I hate to say it, but I think Russia's partners are probably
willing to express support for a settlement.
I don't know if Ukraine's are, and that would be Europe, Great Britain and Western Europe.
And I mean, you just saw the prime minister of Britain say the the day, as I told you, it's an issue between Russia and Ukraine and they need to address it themselves.
They need to get the assurances that, you know, both countries need.
I think that within, even within the EU, not everyone is sharing the same opinion, I believe. But at the end of the day, they will come down to a conclusion that this issue needs to be settled peacefully.
And this issue needs to be taken into consideration, everyone can say.
You participated in a successful ceasefire between Israel and Gaza.
And who knows if that lasts. I i mean i don't know when this
is going to air so i don't even want to speculate but um but clearly it's been awful for everybody
certainly certainly been awful for gaza it's been awful for its neighbors i think it's been really
bad for israel i mean it's just kind of hard to see an upside so how would, if you were in charge, fix this, you know, 80-year-old conflict for good?
It's going back to the basics. If you look at the history since Madrid Declaration in the 90s,
where Israel needed to be integrated in the region,
economic normalization should happen between the countries in the region,
and a political horizon for the Palestinians to establish their own state
on the borders of 1967, which is according to the Security Council resolutions.
Since that time until today, we didn't see anything,
but the situation is going backward.
More settlements, more violence, more, you know, policies which are destructive for the Palestinians, unfortunately.
And basically, we are expecting from the Palestinians, you know, just to obey, to stay quiet.
And not, you know, there will never be anything instigated.
This is normal, you know, when you have, you know, a situation that's lasting that long,
to have this kind of turbulence all the time. And I'm not talking here about 7th of October, I'm talking about the entire period.
How many wars we had?
We had a lot of them.
A lot of people, we hear them saying that we need to try something new.
We need to try things that we are not even, you know, thinking about.
Yes, we agree.
The two-state solution.
We've been talking about it. We never tried this.
Have we ever tried it and it didn't work?
Does this country that's established next to Israel
will be a threat for Israel?
It's a threat as long as it's not a country. And we said that we are willing to
provide security guarantees for Israel. All of us, we will be integrated together as one region
and demilitarize Palestinian state even. So it's not even like, you know, fully independent.
Not even a real country. It's demilitarized.
So it's basically like everything you are offering.
And in exchange, we were always like, you know, either because of their political situation in Israel, like we were always faced by rejections. There were just few leaders in Israel who had the courage to come out and to say that this is the only solution.
This is the only way forward.
But in the last few years, we didn't see any of them.
Do you think Donald Trump can force a Palestinian state?
I think, you know, look, President Trump, he's a great dealmaker.
He's a great businessman. He's very successful.
He made, brokered many deals around the world during the first administration.
And I believe if we will have peace one day, this is the best opportunity for us with someone like President Trump.
Is Qatar at net zero? I know there was
some enthusiasm about making sure you got to net
zero.
Well, if you see the
largest exporter of LNG at net
zero, I think there is something happening wrong.
Does that mean you're dead if you're at net zero?
We are
committed, first of all, that, you know...
Wait, aren't you supposed to pretend you're getting to net zero?
Look, I'm not going to pretend anything that I'm not going to do,
but the gas has proven that it is the most important, reliable baseload source of energy for the next century, maybe.
And the gas is much cleaner than a lot of other energy resources.
And it's benefiting the environment, it's benefiting a lot of countries, switching from coal to gas.
And that's what we are producing, that's benefiting a lot of countries, switching from coal to gas.
And that's what we are producing, that's what we are focusing on.
Now, countries who were just, you know, rushing to get to net zero and trying to impose some, you know, green policies that are not realistic, they are retracting from those policies now.
Yeah.
You see them like, you know, some of them, they are going back to coal.
Well, they're also on the verge of revolution in some cases because they destroyed
the lives of their people.
So it's basically, also it's not fair
when you try to impose, you know,
these kind of regulations in countries
that they have their resources not being developed,
not being exploited, and they have no electricity even. Like Africa, for example. And you want to
make sure that, no, everything there is green, everything is to reach net zero, and you are not
allowed to come and to exploit your energy. But they don't have electricity. So the whole concept, I think it's,
right now there is a lot of debate,
there is a lot of, you know, argument about it
and I'm not sure if the world will be able to achieve it.
Look, we understand the danger of the climate.
We understand the danger of the climate change
but it doesn't mean that we shoot ourselves in the foot.
We need to think about it wisely.
We need to think about it gradually.
And look, Tucker, honestly, maybe I told you in a separate meeting that, you know, the pyramid of the needs of the people
first security
then food and water
then health
energy
education
strong economy
and then climate change
and the environment
so we are living in a region that
barely handling the three like the three layers of foundation climate change and the environment. So we are living in a region that barely
handling the three
layers of foundation.
And people
coming and trying to
impose on us the tip of that.
We need to make sure that our neighbors,
our surroundings are
secured. We need to ensure
that they are fed. We need to ensure that they have enough health care. We need to ensure that they are fed. We need to ensure that they
have enough health care. We need to ensure that they have a good education. We need to make sure
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It does seem like things have changed just in the past six months,
partly because of the electricity needs of AI, of EVs, all the stuff baked in the keg,
the clear limits of renewables, like they can't actually run a modern society, that's all obvious now. And so a lot of investment funds and politicians have sort of pulled back from the net zero theology.
But what's amazing to me is that it seems like some of them really believed it.
I mean, in the case of Qatar, you're opening up a new gas field.
And I think some, like like even energy people laughed at you
and said there's kind of no future for gas.
Yeah.
Well, look...
Why did they say that?
This actually happened to us twice.
Once when we started the gas exploitation,
it wasn't yet the future of the energy.
At that time, this was back in the early 90s.
And we took the risk.
Qatar was in a totally different economic situation at that time.
We took a great risk.
We put a lot of pressure on the country and the needs of the country.
And apparently, the LNG picked up and became one of the main sources.
Then, at the peak of the net zero and the green agenda,
we announced the expansion of our production, which was back in 2018.
And we decided to go on to invest. And at that time, you can read reports from the IMF, for example,
that a lot of countries will end up with a lot of oil and gas,
but with no money,
because they will have no countries to sell the gas to,
or they will have no markets to sell the gas to or they will have no markets to sell their oil to.
And this was just in 2018. And like everyone was panicked. In the same year, we have announced
that we are going to expand our gas field production, and we are hoping to double it by
2030. So from 77 million cubic ton, which was
peaked in 2011 and continued
being sustained until today,
by 2030, we will reach
144.
And that basically
will be the biggest.
So there was a projection
in 2018 that no one would want
to buy your natural gas?
After 2050.
Who made that? That's IMF report, actually. It's not 2018 that no one would want to buy your natural gas? After 2050. Who
made that? I mean, that's like... That's
IMF report, actually. It's not a projection
for Qatar, but it was for the entire GCC.
And basically... That's so
far out of whack with observable reality.
Like, that's insane, obviously.
It's not... It wasn't...
I mean, like, we had the debate
about this within our government
at that time, and we didn't believe it.
We have seen that the requirement for the energy will just increase.
We were watching the revolution in a lot of technologies, and we have seen that whether it's the green hydrogen, the blue hydrogen, the renewables, all of them,
they can never be cost effective in the next 10, 15 years, and maybe more.
And they will not be enough. The baseload, you will always need an energy mix. And the
baseload of this mix will be the LNG, which I mean, always the gas. So that was obvious to just interested non-experts like me, or just people who read about it
like on the side.
But the IMF researchers and, you know, energy analysts who came up with this projection,
do you think they really believed it?
Well, I don't know, honestly.
I mean, we were like, at the beginning when we have seen these reports, we were just questioning why they are doing that. But it was like part of the global sustainability agenda. And probably this is an idea that all international organizations agreed to promote. And basically, it's the same thing like, you know, when it comes
to those organizations, you always see a common agenda item that everyone is advocating toward
the same direction. Look, we have nothing against, you know, the green and the climate change. It's
something that all of us, we need for our survival, for our planet, yes. But also we need to be realistic in our approach.
We need to make sure that this progress is not harming us.
It's benefiting us.
It's not because we want to make sure that the planet lasts forever, that our people
doesn't last forever.
It's basically, it's really a miscalculation.
Now, another example I want to give you,
like, for example, in our partnership
with the US in the gas area,
we have, during, you know, the time before,
like the fracking and the shale gas in the US,
we were supplying the US
with energy at a certain
point of time, and we built this
what's so-called the Golden Pass
in Texas in order to be a
receiving terminal for the gas.
During
President Trump's time
in the first administration, we signed
with him, we signed during his administration to make it as a sending terminal.
So all the gas, the U.S. gas, will be exported through that terminal, which is a partnership between Qatar Energy and ExxonMobil.
So to explain, you take natural gas out of the ground, it's often found with oil, but then you have to basically freeze it and make it, convert it to a liquid state in order to ship it across the ocean.
So LNG is liquefied natural gas.
That's what you're talking about.
Liquefied natural gas, yes.
And then you have also beside that during the same meeting when during the previous administration with President Trump, the first one,
we have signed the largest, single largest petrochemical plant in the world.
It's called the Golden Triangle, which hopefully will be online very soon.
And that's what will provide the basic feedstock for all the industries in the United States,
which is the polymers.
And this is also a partnership
between Qatar Energy and U.S. companies.
I mean, looking back, I think we can
be a little bit more
critical
and try to understand what the
green agenda was, or net zero
was.
But no one ever explained, without
natural gas, how are you going to get fertilizer
and plastic? Did anyone ever explain that to you? No, they have no answers. Even without natural gas, how are you going to get fertilizer and plastic?
Did anyone ever explain that to you?
No, they have no answers. Even people who are adopting the green agenda, when they are talking about electricity, for example, generating electricity from green energy, green resources,
those electricity will need batteries. Batteries will need lithiums
for the AVs. This lithium,
when you mine those lithium,
what is the effect on the environment?
Oh, I know. And
if you calculate it, it's
much worse for the planet
and for the land
than the oil and the gas combined.
And maybe from the coal
as well.
So, it wasn't really well thought of.
It was something that I believe was, you know, taken to a direction.
Doesn't serve the interest of the entire world.
Does it make you nervous that the smartest, most powerful people in the world could jump to conclusions they didn't think through
without evidence,
that they could just say something was true
without knowing it was true
and thinking through the consequences?
I mean, it seems like a kind of mass insanity
that took over the world.
It keeps us up all night.
It does, doesn't it?
Yeah.
Me too.
Mr. Prime Minister, thank you very much.
Thank you very much, Chuck.
Appreciate it.
Thank you.
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