The Ultimate Blog Podcast - 135. Why You Need to Grow Your Email List Today with Matt Molen

Episode Date: July 16, 2024

A topic that we love to discuss here is email marketing and that’s because it is a crucial part of your blog! We welcomed Matt Molen from Email Crush as he dove into email marketing for bloggers and content creators. We discuss strategies for growing an email list, creating effective lead magnets, and setting up email automation sequences. Matt shares his journey in email marketing, emphasizing the importance of understanding the audience and building trust. He also covers the impact of third-part cookies on email marketing and ad revenue, and the significance of repurposing content. Tune in to hear more about one of our favorite topics!Thanks for listening! Let us know your thoughts on Instagram: @sparkmediaconceptsWe recommend ConvertKit for email marketing! Check out our affiliate link for more information.Check out the show notes (link below) for more information including links and resources mentioned in today's episode!SHOW NOTES: www.sparkmediaconcepts.com/episode135

Welcome to the Ultimate Blog Podcast with Amy Reinke and Jennifer Draper. We are on a mission to empower women who want to start or grow their own blog. This podcast is for women who want to learn blogging basics and who crave inspiration and encouragement. Whether you are just getting started or have been a blogger for years, we are excited to welcome you into this space where we are passionate about creating community over competition. We are bloggers who want to encourage you to believe in your potential, step outside the norm and step into a life where you create your own schedule, your own success and your

own story. Join us for weekly episodes as we navigate blogging and work from home life, all while raising a family and having some serious fun along the way. If you've been a listener of the Ultimate Blog Podcast for a while, then you know that we are pretty passionate about email. And it's something that we are just going to keep talking about. We're kind of not going to be quiet about it because it's that important. And then in the day and age of social media, when everybody is saying how you can grow on TikTok and all of these things, there's going to be some of us still like, Hey, hold on. Don't ignore your email list. And Matt Mullen is here with us today from email crush. And he feels the same way that we do. So

you are just in for a treat when it comes to email marketing. So welcome to the ultimate blog podcast map. Thank you so much. You want to talk about email? I am ready to talk about email. Awesome. Fantastic. We are always ready to talk about email because we actually have more control over that than we do our social media and all of that. And it is just such a critical part of growing a blogging business. And so we love that you're passionate about it and are sharing that with people too, because it can feel like this beast, quite honestly. There are a lot of moving parts when it comes to growing your email list. And so I think it's always helpful just to have people who can kind of like break things down, simplify

it. And today we are also going to talk a little bit about like third party cookies and things like that. So I just want to tease that for a little bit. But before we dive in, Matt, can you just share a little bit about how you got started in email marketing? Yeah. So I've been working with small businesses for the last 25 years. And email has always been an important part of that and everything that we've done. Prior to doing this full-time, which I've been doing this for seven years, full-time for five, for seven years, full-time for five. I worked as the chief of marketing for a daily deal website.

This is back when we had a Groupon clone. Everybody had a Groupon clone and we didn't have any budget to speak of, but we had all these deals that had to be communicated. And so we got Dealaholics onto this newsletter and we sent them three emails a day. And so I learned very quickly the importance of email and how to build a list, how to convert, how to do segmentation. I mean, it was millions of dollars every year of revenue for us that came

from this email list. And then what happened was I just started talking to some colleagues, some friends that were blogging and creating content. And I said, well, what would you do? And I started my own little blog with my wife, a Disney related website. And I implemented my, my hair, brain schemes in the way that I thought made sense to me and they worked. And so then I started teaching content creators. Well, this is what I would do if I were you and that worked. And so then my started teaching content creators, well, this is what I would do if I were you.

And that worked. And so then my business kind of grew up from there. So it's been a fun journey to apply these tried and true principles to this particular space. And they are tried and true principles. It almost doesn't matter whether you're blogging, doing e-commerce, there are some things that just tend to work for list growth and some things that tend to work in email for driving traffic and selling.

So that's kind of my story. I love that it worked in multiple spaces. I think that that's important to note before we dive into the specifics of blogging and email and all that. At the end of blogging and email and all that is that at the end of the day, email is email, right? We get a lot of emails each and every day. And so how can we make that work for us? Because when you think about creating content, a lot of times it feels like we're standing on a street corner with a sign like, hey, I just created something. How are you going to see it? You know, an email really can be our first

line of defense with that. But nobody's going to see the email if we don't get them on our list to start. So let's just kind of start at that, at that basic level, I think would be helpful. How do you get people to sign up for your email list? Like what is one of those tried and true ways people to sign up for your email list? Like what is one of those tried and true ways that people sign up? So I'm gonna tell you the secrets of my business. And this is quite literally the whole business. And that is that your existing traffic

is your best source of list growth. That means the person that's in front of you that is consuming your content wherever that is, if that is on the pinstagram or the TikToks or somebody Googles you and lands on your website, it doesn't matter. That's your opportunity. And there are things that we know don't work.

Never miss an update. Subscribe to my newsletter. In that moment, that person is not there to sign up for your newsletter. They are there to learn from you to, or maybe it's a transaction between their Google search landed on your blog, they're consuming the content and boom, they're off and on their way

because they got what they needed to transaction complete, right? So what we need to do, and this is why the concept of lead magnets has been around for so long. All we're saying when we say for anybody who is unfamiliar with the word lead magnet, I'm sure that most of you are familiar with it. We're just creating an email hook that says, I will give you some something special bonus if you'll give me your email address and then you'll be committed to receive my emails until

you're sick of it. So that's how that works. So quite often what people are trying to do or create email hooks that are really over the top or they feel like it's this big overwhelming thing. So the whole concept of maybe I've got to make an ebook. Well the problem with that, well first of all, I don't, you know, don't get me going on ebooks but for as lead magnets, they're fine for products, but it is a lead magnet. Who actually keeps it and reads it? And do they actually click on anything in there that brings you back to your blog? And you have to pay somebody to design it, or you got to figure out Canva to make it look pretty or whatever.

PDFs just aren't the best format for that. But people do that because they feel like they're offering value. I'm going to put my bonus, I'm going to put my recipes in here. I'm going to put my guide in here. And that's my ebook. You can do the same thing with something that I call a quick start guide. And I've been using this tactic for years and years and years. For example, with that Disney related website, we used to rank number one for Disney Cruise Tips. That was a long time ago.

But when you landed on, when you Google Disney cruise tips and you land on my website, that is 110 magical Disney cruise tips, what do I know about you? Well, you're probably going on a Disney cruise or you're really evaluating it hard and it's probably your first one. Otherwise, why do you need tips? So stuff that doesn't work to grow that list were, never miss an update about a Disney cruise or learn everything there is to know about Disney cruise.

That does not work. But what worked great was a quick start guide, what to expect on your first Disney cruise. Just that hook right there, that promise. Cause I understood what that audience wanted. I'm able to show a form, show a pop-up, show one of those swoopy slider thingies, whatever, that they sign up for. And now I've got the perfect solution to their next problem.

Therefore, making me the subject matter expert and driving them back to my website to consume that content. So that's the glory of that. I don't even have to make a PDF. I'm just sending, I just have to craft some emails. So I get them on the list, send. I don't even have to make a PDF. I'm just sending, I just have to craft some emails. So I get them on the list, send them some emails, bring them back to the blog. Now they're starting, they went from a Google transaction,

a Google search to starting to recognize the logo and recognize our headshot. And oh, maybe Matt and Alicia do know something about Disney cruising. Whereas before they didn't care. They're just Googling something. Right? Yeah. Boy, as bloggers, we do try to over complicate that, don't we?

Yeah. And I think that a lot of people are missing the intention of what is the traffic that's in front of you. Somebody is discovering this podcast today for the first time. They don't know you, they don't know Jennifer, maybe they just stumbled onto it because somebody said something about it. They don't know your backstory. What is it that we've got this opportunity right now? What problem can we solve for them?

Could we make a real quick, easy hook just to get people onto the podcast newsletter? Using our existing content? I'm guessing that in your back catalog of guests, we probably have stuff related to other email topics or monetization of your blog or SEO. We can dangle that carrot as a lead magnet, as a email hook, and we could just deliver that through email. And the emails would simply be, hey, don't miss when we talk to Joe about Joe's SEO secret. And when we talk to Mary about Mary's SEO secret, that was an episode 95 and an episode 32.

Boom, we have a lead magnet. Right. And it performs in other aspects of your business too. So for the example of the podcast, it also gives you another download for your podcast. So it's serving your business in multiple ways, which is exactly what your email does. The important thing about email isn't just to get a whole bunch of people on the list. We want to send them on a specific

journey. And I think that you brought up something really, really smart that I hope that people picked up. And that's who is on your list. And also who is coming and looking at your content. You have to know who that person is. And you have to have a very clear defined goal. We've talked about that with niche and your reader avatar and all of that. And when you know exactly who you're talking to, then you can create content that is going to marry that. And then you're going to be able to serve a lot easier when you actually understand

who you're talking to. So I know that that is not necessarily in regards to email marketing, but this is just another way for us to reiterate that really important foundation when it comes to blogging that, you know, when we tell you to focus on your niche and when we tell you to focus on who you're actually talking to, it serves you in all different aspects of your business, email marketing being one of them. If you don't really know who you're talking to, then you don't know what kind of emails that you need to write in order to connect with them.

I think what a lot of people are going through right now, there have been changes to how people are getting content, you know, with with AI, with just how Google is behaving recently. I mean, a lot of people are going from I ranked really high for something and I was getting traffic. And I would argue that if that makes no matter your opportunity there, most of that is transaction based. Meaning they don't care about us as bloggers. They don't care about the Matt behind the Disney Cruise tips. They just want tip number 35 serve them. Boom, I'm off and on my way. There's something on Netflix. I got to get back to work. I got to get to the gym.

The cat's having a gastrointestinal issue in the corner, whatever it may be. I don't, life is busy. I don't even remember Matt and his, and his blog. So getting that person onto my list now allows me to become a subject matter expert and become a brand. That journey that you were talking about. I believe so heavily in that. And that most people are missing the point with email.

I get them on my list. Now what? Send them the latest thing. Well, you know what the latest thing was that I just sent was what's the gym like on the Disney cruise? This is a new subscriber and the first thing they're going to get from me is what was the gym like? How about the packing list?

How about to avoid getting seasick? How about, you know, the, the, the, where to stand to see the fireworks, more important stuff than what's the gym like. And we can do that in email. We can create a journey through, through automations, sequences, depending on what your platform's called, workflows that guides them step by step

where you want them to go, if you'll take the time to build that email journey and that is What most people do not do yeah So when you're putting it all together, you've got some you know traffic coming to your site So you're trying to capture those people you figured out what's gonna get them to sign up Then how do you take that to the next step and figure out what is this journey I want them to go on? And I guess that kind of wraps around to the question of, like, as a blogger, why am I putting all this time and effort into creating this journey for them? What's my goal with it?

How do I define what my goals could be? Or what are the possibilities when I do this? Right. So I think the question there is, what business are you building? How are you monetizing? Okay, so if it's about getting paid by Mediavine or Reptive or Ezoic, all right, then we need eyeballs on the website. That's my business.

How else am I going to drive traffic to my business if I don't serve these people and provide them a reason to come. So creating a personalized journey or thoughtful journey that guides them step by step on a subject that you know a lot about, you're going to have a better chance of driving that traffic. Now, if you're going to sell anything, you can't sell anything on the internet until you've built up trust. And so again, we're, most of us are unknown quantities to that person who just Googled and land on our website. It's hard to just turn around and sell them something in that moment.

They're just there to grab some immediate answer. They don't want to buy your whole library of content. Right. So from my perspective, we want to serve and serve and serve and build trust. Because that opens up. You can sell almost anything at that point. If you do that, like Rick Steves, since we're talking about travel, anybody who knows Rick, he has no problem getting sponsors now.

He has no problem selling his own merch and his own books. But you know what he did for years and years and years before that is he created amazing content and served and served and served and became a subject matter expert. Email, by creating that journey there, why would we do this? Because we don't know when Pinterest is going to change and Google's going to change and pull that rug away from us.

And beyond that, if we want to build a brand and have a real business, you need to have real customers that know who you are and what you stand for. Email can do that. If we want to build a brand and have a real business, you need to have real customers that know who you are and what you stand for. Email can do that. I'm so glad you just said all that. It just reiterates the importance of it because like you said earlier, a lot of people don't do that work of setting up the automations and the sequences and things like that. But we're not just looking to build a business today. And sometimes that's the thing that I think holds bloggers specifically back is some do get started.

And like we are trying really hard to talk to those people who are wanting to build a blogging business. There's a lot of people out there hobby blogging, but we are really talking to the person who like wants to build a business blogging. And when that's what you're wanting to do, you have to do some of those things like the Welcome Series and different sequences and things. And I know that that can feel really overwhelming. We recommend ConvertKit. I think ConvertKit does an excellent job at, one, providing a ton of different resources and videos to help people

get that stuff set up. But it's pretty approachable as well. And so if that's the case that you just feel really overwhelmed, one, just get on an email platform. Make sure that that's set up and that most of them have resources available on there to help you take the next step because you have to have that part set up in order to do what you wanna do long term. It's just a requirement. You set up your LLC, you set up in order to do what you want to do long term. It's just a requirement.

Like you set up your LLC, like you set up your website. You also need to set up some of these automations and they can grow with you also. Like when you set up your welcome series, like let's say you're gonna set up a welcome series that has 10 to 15 emails, that's great. Get people on that, but then you can, that is like we've talked about, that's like a living, breathing thing, and you can continue to like add onto the welcome series

as you continue blogging. Those emails get to work for you with every single new subscriber that you get. So you're not having to do that work every single day. It's being done essentially for you because you've set it up. For years, for years and years. So it's interesting when you're talking about that as far as, so what my whole business is, is I have, I have a course, I have consulting, I have done for you services, what I do for a very large blogger is the exact same thing that I do

for somebody who's getting started. It doesn't change. It's just the scope to whom you're reaching. It's just how many of those Google transactions are coming your way to jump, to build your list faster than, you know, than otherwise, but it's still foundational. The reason that people skip it because there, well, there's lots of reasons. There's 800 other things you could be doing with your time. I get it.

Sometimes, and we're chasing, I need traffic now. So what is the new whiz bang way of getting traffic? When, okay, I'm gonna do this on Facebook groups now, or I'm gonna do this on this other whiz bang doodle thingy and I'm gonna follow that. I get it, I've done that, I do that. I still do that, I'm guilty of that. But the foundation for something like email,

like you're talking about, whether it's a welcome series, or I have a concept called a forever series, which is very similar, that will serve you for literally years. You can create lead magnets and I recommend making more than one, but that you can reuse every year during different seasons, you can bring them back. And whether you are starting out with zero page views a month or have a hundred thousand page views, or you have 10 million page views a month, honestly, it's usually the same. This is why I was telling you that that's my secret.

It's the same process. It's just applying it to your individual business. So, you know, when people get stuck on that, we just need a place to start. Start with the list growth. And then I really like this idea of thinking through, I can't remember. Maybe it was Jennifer who said journey, thinking through the journey of what's next for the Disney cruiser that's now on my list.

Okay. So this concept that I call a forever series is not quite a welcome series because it doesn't have to end. So it's an ongoing nurture sequence. I started calling it a forever series in 2017 or something, because that was the word that stuck out to me because I could keep adding to it. So here's my example, Disney Cruise. So they've come through the, get my quick start guide.

They're on the list. Email number one, that first Sunday, it doesn't matter what day, uh, what month of the year it is, is always the most powerful Disney Cruise tip I ever learned. I lead with that because it's like, I'm still dating these people. You know, I'm still trying to convince them that I'm awesome. I'm putting on my best pair of jeans here, all right? So, email number two is one week later.

It's not related to email number one, but it's the packing list. Everybody needs to know what to pack. Email number three is how to avoid getting seasick. Email number four is what happens on Disney's private island and so on and so forth. Now I have, because it's only a little hobby of ours, we have like 33 in that forever series,

but that's 33 weeks of predictable content. And what's gonna happen if they're loving me for 33 weeks and then I drop in 34, they're probably gonna love that too. If I don't drop in 34, are they going to magically remember to come back to my website? Probably not. And that logic, well, the reason I call it a forever series, that logic holds true on whether it's email 33 or email 133.

Add one more, add one more. It just needs to be evergreen. And I have bloggers that I work with that have been in the business for 15 years that have multiple years of forever series. That's a little excessive. That's a lot. But for example, I've got one. Her name is Janssen from Everyday Reading. Oh my gosh, Matt. I love her. Okay, you should. She is amazing. She is one of my favorite. It's so funny that you brought her up.

I absolutely love Janssen and her blog. This is interesting. I open every single one of her emails. This is so apropos. Janssen was actually the one who introduced me to the blogosphere to begin with. Her and another blogger are the reason that I'm doing this today. Oh my gosh. What a small world.

Yeah. are the reason that I'm doing this today. Anyway. Oh my gosh, what a small world. Yeah, so Janssen with her forever series, think about her situation where she has, she teaches parents to instill a love of reading in their kids. And she's been doing this for, I don't know, over a decade, longer. She's got this great evergreen content. Harry Potter is not all the rage right now.

It was, it goes in seasons and things like that. But doggone it, when your kid is of Harry Potter is not all the rage right now. It was, it goes in seasons and things like that. But, Doug, on it, when your kid is of Harry Potter age, Janssen's got content that is still super hyper relevant for them. And so when she sends that out, and I don't know what number it is, you know, week 35 in her Forever series, or week 110, that's brand new to that subscriber in that moment. Janssen wrote it in 2012, but it is being resurfaced and serving that audience when it is appropriate. And Janssen doesn't have to think about another email.

She wrote that email a long time ago, years ago, and it's still serving her to drive traffic and serving her audience. That doesn't mean you don't go in there and freshen them up, you know, change it up. But the point is that these can serve you. I think you said it Amy, they can serve you for years to come.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Email marketing is an essential piece of blogging. Growing your email list is just as important as SEO and keyword research in our opinion. And in order to grow your list, piece of blogging. Growing your email list is just as important as SEO and keyword research in our opinion. And in order to grow your list you need a reliable platform that will allow you to connect with your community and turn them into email subscribers. That's where ConvertKit comes in. ConvertKit is the

go-to marketing hub for creators like you that helps you grow and monetize your audience with ease. ConvertKit allows you to grow your audience and reach, put your funnels on autopilot and earn an income with your email list, all with an easy to use platform that is approachable even for beginners. Click the link in our show notes to learn more about the different plans that ConvertKit has and how it can help you propel your business to the next level. it has and how it can help you propel your business to the next level. So this is really basic, but once you get them on your list and you're creating this series that's taking them on this journey like we talked about, do you still send them, hey, here's my latest post,

or do you take that off the table and you only take them on this journey? That's a great question. So this is very cookie cutter advice. This is not applied to everybody. All right. If I bring on a new client and they don't have anything going on, this is where we start.

We have one forever series email per week, and then we have one seasonal broadcast per week. Because if I'm working with a food blogger, I have learned through science that in fact, the best time to send Thanksgiving recipes is in November. And so that doesn't work in an evergreen series. Right. Or, you know, maybe you're a deal blogger and, you know, Black Friday time comes around

or the holidays comes around, maybe it's time to pause that evergreen thing and just hit the deals, you know. so just depends on what you've got going on, but absolutely new content is helpful, but I think it's most content or is most helpful is what is interesting to them right now. So for example, Rachel from Rachel cooks, she has an email that she sends out every year to my knowledge. I've seen it every year for the last five. It's seven super snacks for the soup bowl. And in that email, she has salsa and she has sliders and she has dips. And the question that nobody ever asks Rachel that I

know of is, hey, Rachel, when did you originally publish these recipes? Who cares? I just need the sliders now, whether it was five minutes ago or five years ago, I need it now so she can reuse that content even in a seasonal approach. So that doesn't really answer your question directly, but I'm less focused on new because your latest stuff isn't necessarily your greatest stuff. Yeah. We do hold up the signs and say, I just made something, please look at it. And so there's this tendency, but we really want to get that out there and I get it.

And there may even be SEO reasons to get eyeballs on it. I'm not an SEO expert. So sure, if that's your philosophy, but for the most part, we're not gonna sacrifice, I may be making Valentine's day recipes in November. There's no way I'm releasing those in my email list when I should be sharing Thanksgiving recipes. Yeah, just keeping it really helpful and relevant

to the person who's coming for that information because like you said, you know, if it's completely out of season, they're gonna ignore it versus like, it's so important to get them to open and connect and stay interested in what you're creating. And that's just kind of blogging in general is just really connecting with that person and staying relevant in front of them and not having them like get turned off and ignore you. And then the next thing that comes out may be relevant, but they're gone.

We call it email marketing. Marketing is about solving customers' problems. In content creation land, the people reading our content are, in fact, our customers. They're the ones that make us money because they consume our content and we get paid by ads or we get paid by affiliate links or we get paid by sponsors or whatever. So what you just said is understanding and solving their problems and email is no different. When we, you know, I use this as an example. When I first entered this space,

it was very common that everybody had a MailChimp account and they would put on, they would just attach their RSS feed and that would be their email. And so a new subscriber, if you came out with pineapple coleslaw as your new recipe, I'm just using food as my ongoing example today. Pineapple coleslaw shows up in my inbox

at 7.30 in the morning. You know, as a new subscriber, what value are you actually bringing? When has anybody ever wanted pineapple coleslaw at 7 in the morning? When has anybody ever wanted pineapple coleslaw? That's another question. So, you know, what could we have sent instead

that would have been a little bit more helpful? So if we just leave it, now that's still better than nothing, honestly. If you're not doing anything, at least do that. Yeah. At least let them know that you created something new. Cause there will be some diehard fans out there that do want every bit of,

but most of those Google searches turned subscribers, we've really got to serve them until they're convinced that they love us. We don't know the names of Taylor Swift's cats until we've heard blank space on the radio a few times, right? We have to serve. Yeah. And I think something, an important takeaway too, that you're going to understand is like when you have this, you know, forever or welcome series, whatever you decide to call that in your own business, as you take them through that journey, some will leave and that is

okay. And understanding that when you are dripping out content like that, what you're really doing is refining your audience. And that's the point of it is to refine it to a point that by the time they get to email 33, just like you said, Matt, like they are a diehard. They want to know like, what else does Matt know? He's awesome. He's not going to send me a pineapple coleslaw recipe. Because, you know, so like think about that, like think about what what you're doing as you're watching your metrics, as you're watching your analytics, as these emails go out, as you're watching people die off or unsubscribe, that's actually okay. And I think we have to get really uncomfortable with the unsubscribe.

And I know it can feel really frustrating when you're in this list building stage, but I think when we can just accept that that's just part, once again, of the journey, that what you want is we want people who really do want to open the email, they want to learn from us and they want to buy from us. And I know that that alone is a really uncomfortable thought when we're like, we want our email subscribers to buy from us. We want to earn revenue. Quit making that feel so icky.

We have to just, if we're running a blog as a business, that's part of the business plan. So get comfortable with that. So we have some shifts coming like with third party cookies and things like that. And I'd like to take a little bit of time to talk about that and specific, Matt, and just how that is going to impact email. We have Mediavine coming on the podcast to talk about how it's going to affect like ad revenue. But this is kind of, you know, a lot of bloggers are talking about this. So I'd like just to hear your take on it as well.

Well, it's made my business. I've been never been so busy. All of a sudden, people care very deeply about their email list when they didn't care as much before. So without going into all the technical detail, email is not the replacement for third-party cookies, but it is part of the overall solution that these advertising companies are seeing. The super simple version of this is that advertisers can use email addresses to understand the demographics of an audience. So they happen to know through Jennifer's email that she has stayed at a Hilton and that she drives a Honda

and that she has a real problem in Nordstrom, you know? So they might know those things. And while they don't say, oh, that's Jennifer, they have this hash, it's called hashed. It just means it's obscured information that they then put into these clean rooms, they call it, and they share that information. And then it serves kind of like cookies used to or do, right?

So that more targeted ads can be shown to this hash that represents Jen of the Nordstrom offers that, you know, when they partner with Hilton's, you get there by driving your Honda, right? So, my suggestion right now, you see activity in this space. It's changing dramatically. You know, even what's happening with the third party cookies is the timing of that and whatnot. But I think it's inevitable that it's happening. And what I know already, this is public information, that Mediavine and Raptive are already having higher RPMs. They already know this because they're investing in this

from people who get these IDed newsletter subscribers with the email address, okay? That's trying to be as non-technical there as possible, just so I don't get myself in trouble of saying something dumb. But I will tell you this, I think the simplest thing that I can tell you is follow the money. What are Raptive and Mediavine doing publicly? I'm not giving away any information here. They are investing heavily. You know, Raptive purchased Slickstream a couple years ago. They've announced a partnership with a company called LiveRamp.

They've got RSS plugins that allow these IDs to be set. They're adding URL parameters to every link in every email. Mediavine is investing heavily in Grow. They've built their Spotlight Subscribe, their Auto Mailer, their forms, print pass. I mean, I'm just, this is just public stuff. That is not cheap, what they are doing. Mailer, their forms, print pass. I mean, I'm just, this is just public stuff. That is not cheap what they're doing. Why did a big, why did these two big ad companies go and say, we're going to spend a bunch of dollars on email, follow the money.

So that's my first takeaway there. I mean, the bottom line is more emails means more, better targeting for the subscription, for the advertisers and better targeting means more ad dollars from them. Now, a couple of things that I would do aside from growing my list big. I might encourage you if you're listening to me to consider sending more emails. What? What? How dare you? How dare you. Now, I have done, I've done some math. So with some of my content creators in February, I served some really big ones.

They have big lists and I had them go to Raptive and Mediavine and get their, their email session RPM. That is the amount of money that they're getting paid per session from an email link versus overall. Of those, that group of people that I surveyed in February, the difference was 25% increase. They're making 25% higher RPM off of their email sessions. It's already more valuable to you. Wow. Now, why might that be?

Aside from what Mediavine and Raptive are doing behind the scenes to get us higher dollars. The first, what I have found, this is again, this is very high level. Somebody who clicks on your link, they like you, they like your brand, but they are not specifically searching for that, I wasn't worried about what the Disney Cruise gym was like until you told me that you have that information.

Now I click on it to go check it out. Maybe I don't stick around on that page because I wasn't that interested, but I'm going to go see other things. That's why the session RPM becomes much more valuable. These people are coming back and they're kind of bumping around a little bit more and they're experiencing more on your site. They're staying on site more. This is even before the Mediavine and Raptive ID lift. It's a 25% make more money kind of delta. Did I explain that okay? That went in my head. It made sense. I just didn't know if it sounded all right. Yeah, so when you're driving that traffic to your website,

the traffic that you're getting from click-throughs that you shared a link in your email is getting paid a higher rate than if they had click-through from Google or Pinterest or something like that. Is that what we're understanding? I wish I had said it that way. That was much better said, yes. That is exactly it. Now, there's another trick you can do here too, if you are with Raptive or Mediavine, is go into your dashboard and find your posts that make you the most money on an RPM basis. And then all else being equal, send those articles to your audience more often.

If you've got a chocolate chip cookie that just crushes it, and you're debating whether or not to send that chocolate chip cookie or something else, send the chocolate chip cookie that just crushes it. And you're, you're debating whether or not to send that chocolate chip cookie or something else, send the chocolate chip cookie. You know, you're going to make more money because you'd already know what it is. And I think that that, that is a, you know, a very low hanging fruit for many, many people. Just go look, make a list of it and then go, these top 10 just need to be in more emails. That's it. I just need to figure out how to pull these into roundups and talk about them more. The concern might be, oh, am I sending that too much? Well, here's how email math works. What's a good open rate? You know, anything over 50% is pretty

awesome. What's a good click rate? Well, anything over 10% is just like mind blowing. That means that 95% of people who open your email never click whatever it was that you, or that received your email, never click. Does that mean the, or that received your email, never click. Does that mean the email's bad? No, that's just how it is. You know, people do bulk deletes and, you know, they declare inbox bankruptcy once in a while, just cleaning it out.

But that doesn't mean that they hate your stuff and then when you send the next one. So that means that you can send the cookie more often than you think. Right. Right. So find ways to include those creatively and you'll make a little bit more money. Yeah, I think that's an important tip is that, you know, we might think that they're seeing it often, but they're likely not seeing it.

I mean, it would be so unlikely that they would see it every single time we shared or post it or they're just not. Think about all the content that we are consuming on a daily basis now. And there's just no way that somebody's like, they've sent this out like 32 times. If you've sent it like 32 times in 30 days, then maybe they're seeing it. Maybe they're catching it. Maybe they're catching on. But if you can do it very strategically, and I think that's, that's, you know, Jennifer's all about data and strategy. And I love that part of Jennifer and our business is that you have to pay attention to that stuff.

And so that is really important to know like what that is. So I have a question. I don't know if you're gonna get another answer to it. But what about somebody who's not on Mediavine and Raptive yet? Like what about a beginner blogger? And maybe they have like 30 to 50 posts up. Like, how do they know which ones that they should be sharing a little bit more often? Would that be going into their Google Analytics and doing it that way?

Or how would you recommend that they kind of, you know, set that up to where they can essentially train their audience that they are going to be repurposing their content. I would take a slightly different strategy if I'm not monetizing with Raptive and Mediavine. And my focus until I get there would be serve, serve, serve, serve like crazy. I mean, all the other revenue streams that you can possibly get,

it's just such a huge difference maker when you can qualify, right? In terms of how much money you can possibly get. It's just such a huge difference maker when you can qualify, right? In terms of how much money you can make. So just call those your apprentice years or whatever and become a subject matter expert. So if I know that you need to know where to stand to see the fireworks on a Disney show, right? If I know that, you may not know that,

but I know that my heart of hearts, I've got to send that to you, you know? I let the, what I know be the, as the subject matter expert, be the guide with email. Just serve the heck out of them, you know? Because that's how, what's gonna happen is that somebody is gonna go, oh my gosh, this tip was fantastic. Let's get this on MSN or let's, you know,

this needs to pop into Google discover, or you know what, so and so is going to mention this on their podcast and it's going to go create whatever. When that's how we start to get discovered was when we reliably show up with the thing that makes us awesome and smart. Yeah, I thought we were going to spend a lot of time talking about, you know, different things to create and how to monetize. And it's so much simpler than it was in my head when we started talking today because you're using the avenues that you already have.

You're using the content that you're already creating and just truly serving the people that you have. And that is a fantastic place to start. We don't have to over, over complicate it. And, you know, as we get further along into this, I think my understanding is that the information that advertisers are getting from people that are willing to put in their email address

is that's better information for them. So continuing to grow that and grow those connections is just going to become more and more and more important. If we're looking at a time of uncertainty in terms of traffic, and I don't care what size business you are, what businesses survive? They're businesses that have strong brands and strong and loyal to loyal customers. How do you get that in the content creation space? It's perfectly natural for us all to just fixate

on creating something new, because that's what we do. That's exciting, it's fun. I'm gonna bang out the next project. I'm gonna make my next cricket craft. I'm gonna share this, it's awesome. But the people that care about what we have to say, how are we showing up for them? And sometimes it means repeating the same stuff that you've said before.

Sometimes it means sharing the best stuff that's just worked over a year over year. This podcast, I'm saying the same stuff I've said for the last five years. Just slightly different. I refined some of the little jokes or whatever, but for the most part, it's the, it's the same content and you, we all do the same. We have different people discovering us at different times and we can serve them. So I guess, Mike, if I were to kind of wrap up

what I believe is build the list as big as possible with your target audience and send them more emails that serve them better. And if that means automating it, great. If that means you sit there and you rethink it every single time, great. I suggest automating it. But you're going to build a brand when you do that. If we're not just chasing, please click on my pineapple coleslaw.

Yeah. It's bigger than that. It's bigger than that. It's foundational. It's foundational. And I think that it's an understanding of the impact that you can make as a blogger. And that we all, as content creators,

have kind of lulls that we feel like, I don't want to create something new right now. So instead of being completely dead silent during those times, think about everything that you've already created that can benefit and work for you always. Like, the more content that you have, the more ways that we can just repurpose it and use it to serve not just our current community, but also the others out there who need our content. And I

say it all the time. I say it, I feel like I say it on almost every podcast that we do, but bloggers, like we're helpers. And when we truly think about ourselves in that light, we're not it. We're not being annoying. Somebody opted into the email list. Like they opted in. They said, I want your stuff. They said, you know, they can likely like double confirmed it, you know, like, don't be afraid to send them an email. If you're annoying them, they will leave. But like, we'll go back to Janssen because she's, I just love her stuff. I open every single one of her emails and she sends a lot of them. She sends a lot of emails. And I actually sent, this is just good food for thought for anybody listening. I actually see more

for emails than I see of her social media content. So that's another thing that I think is an important takeaway that we did not know that connection going into this specific podcast episode. But just as a consumer of that content, and like I'm obviously on social media in this business too. So it's interesting that I'm not seeing a lot of her social media right now, but I'm still seeing her emails. So don't discount the fact that your email can make an impact. Like you don't, you don't have to be killing it on social media. You can be behind the scenes creating emails that are going to continue to serve you.

And I just hope that anybody listening to this, like maybe that's your summer project that you're gonna work on, is setting that up and asking yourself like, okay, I've created all this content, how can I continue to let it work for me? To where when you do get on an ad network, if you're not already,

like you can just watch the dollars roll in. Isn't that the goal? Absolutely. I love that you brought that up. It's not spam when you're providing value. It's just not. And if they are getting annoyed by your stuff, then like you said, they're not the right people for you.

We're here building a brand. We're building a company. We're building a business, we're serving, serving, serving, and we won't be right for everybody. It's just impossible to be right for everybody. So I'm going to do a little shameless plug real quick. If you are struggling, if you don't know where to start, if you're worried about the tech side of it, then may I humbly suggest email on autopilot. So that's my course that I had spent my cornerstone course for a very long time.

I keep it updated. It is half strategy. So the stuff that we talked about what to do. And then the other half is how to do it technically. My platform of choice is ConvertKit. So it is very ConvertKit centric there. But the reason I gave up being overly concerned about feeling like a shill for ConvertKit was I get it to work for me. And I think the best platform is the one that you can get to work for you, for your business.

So if you're agnostic about it and you don't care, then just follow the step by step. It just teaches you, here's what to do. And if you want to do that, here's step by step how to do that. So that's email on autopilot.com. Email on autopilot.com and you can check out my TrustPilot and see what people have said about it. But it's actually the same stuff I do for clients. It's the same stuff that I teach in my consulting. So if you're not wanting to pay bigger consulting dollars, it's all right there. It's literally the same stuff. It just tells you step by step how to do it. That's amazing. Kind of a DIY approach.

Absolutely. Yep. Matt, we will put a link to that in our show notes so everybody can check that out and learn from you more. Thank you so much for sharing today on the podcast. I think this is an excellent episode. I'm really excited to share. So yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It's been so fun.

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