The Ultimate Blog Podcast - 28. Money mindset & habits to keep in mind when building your blogging business with Angela Hacche

Episode Date: June 28, 2022

Today we have money coach, Angela Hacche, on the Ultimate Blog Podcast talking with us about money mindset and money habits. Angela shares with us how to have positive thoughts surrounding money, limiting beliefs that come up when talking about money, setting money goals, long-term vision for your business, mindset, and small money habits to set you up for success. If you are wanting to start a blog but wondering if this investment is the right one for you, check out this episode to hear Angela share lots of insight!Check out the show notes (link below) for links and resources mentioned in this episode!Thanks for listening! Connect with us on Instagram: @sparkmediaconceptsIf you need questions answered before you start your blog, check out The Blog Depot, an online course and membership community!SHOW NOTES: www.sparkmediaconcepts.com/episode28

Welcome to the Ultimate Blog Podcast with Amy Reinecke and Jennifer Draper. We're on a mission to empower women who want to start or grow their own blog. This podcast is for women who want to learn blogging basics and who crave inspiration and encouragement. Whether you're just getting started or have been a blogger for years, we're excited to welcome you into this space where we are passionate about creating community over competition. We are bloggers who want to encourage you to believe in your potential, step outside the norm, and step into a life where you create your own schedule, your own success, and your own story. Join us for weekly episodes as we navigate blogging

and work from home life, all while raising a family and having some serious fun along the way. all while raising a family and having some serious fun along the way. Today, we are going to dive into a topic that sometimes feels a bit taboo, and it's money. A lot of us feel kind of nervous when we're going to start talking about money, especially in regards to our feelings and mindset behind it, and then how much we want to make, how much we need to make. And I am so excited that Angela Hatchie is with us here today to kind of dive into this with us and help us navigate this. Because I think that this is something that a lot of us just need a little coaching on. And Angela is a money coach and she is here to help us navigate the money behind the blogging. Angela, welcome to

the Ultimate Blog Podcast. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I the blogging. Angela, welcome to the Ultimate Blog Podcast. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited. Yeah. I do money coaching for entrepreneurs. I found that it was such a need for online business owners, more creative niches, I guess, to solidify their money process, figure out how much they need to bring in and make it a viable business, which I know is a big deal for blogs and blogging in general. It's turning into the money-making side hustle or full-time hustle that you want it to be. Yes. And I think that's a question that we get a lot is how do I make money and all of that. And a lot of people start as maybe a hobby and then it kind of grows and then they're like, okay, like, what do I do now?

So I think before we dive into that, I would love to talk about how we can set our mindset up to have like good positive thoughts surrounding money. Because I think, I think a lot of emotions and experiences and our background, the way we were brought up can affect the way that we think about money. So let's pretend like we are, you pretend like you're talking to a client for the first time. What is something that you encourage them with in regards to having the right mindset when you go and dive in to think about your money situation? Sure. So typically, we start with if we're figuring out what the current money situation is, is like letting go of any of the guilt or shame of like anything that happened in the past. A lot of previous clients

have like gone into debt, paid it off, gone back into debt and just like the fluctuation. And I think coming to the table with your money, knowing like, this is my first step in taking control of what's going on, because a lot of us spend most of our lives just like letting money be whatever and kind of like letting it happen to us. And I think coming to the table and like, okay, I'm going to like, essentially maybe take responsibility for the first time and say, I'm, I just feel like we're working so hard for our money and it takes away from our time with family. It takes our energy. It takes our time. And it takes years, right? Especially if you're building a blog and a business, it takes years. And if we think, how am I going to utilize

the money coming to me that's causing me to take time away from my family and build this business, how am I going to use it for more good in my life? That's kind of like, I feel like the premise of all the work that I do with clients is like, what good do you want to create in your life? Because if we can't agree that money is a tool, money is a resource as our starting place, it's really hard to do anything because I mean, that's the whole point, right? You're working, taking time, taking energy to earn something that needs to do something for you. But we spend a lot of time and a lot of years in the place where

we are just like, earning money and not letting it do something for us, not letting it like, get us out of debt or get through hard times. And I think the more that we work from that place, and we see the good that it's doing for us, even on a small scale, it's like, oh, I was able to make an extra debt payment or I was able to invest in the help that I really need for my business. And taking the extra few minutes to just think about it as like, look at this amazing thing that my money has let me do, we can move into a more positive space with our money. And something that I always have people think about is like, if we agree that money is a resource and we think like, what else is a resource? Like water is a resource. Air is a resource. I always ask you like, how much air do you want? You wouldn't be like, I want just enough. Like I want to be slightly asphyxiated

all the time and just barely able to draw a breath. We would never say that. We would never say that. But so often if you ask people, how much money do you want to make? They're like, I want to make just enough, like just enough to pay the bills or just enough to be comfortable or just to get by. I'm like, I want you to be abundantly able to draw a breath and have, there's plenty for you, there's plenty for me, there's plenty for everybody in your family. And that's how I want people to think about money is it's a resource in your life and we can create more of it, but it also needs to do something good for you and not be a detriment to your health,

basically, financial health. Do you think that people have a hard time voicing that? Like, I want to make a hundred thousand dollars a year because there are some limitations, some limiting beliefs that they wonder, can I actually do it? And so it's much easier just to say to yourself, just enough, like I want to pay, you know, just my electricity bill, or I just want to be able to pay one house payment. Do you think that it's easier for them to just say that smaller amount? Because if they were to kind of shoot for the moon, then there's more chance of failing. And then that's when the feelings of guilt and shame come up. Sure. I would say it's like on two separate fronts. I would say people have a hard time saying they want to make a lot of money because of maybe like a worthiness issue, which is also something that I always work with on my clients, too, is like, what is your like root belief around money?

And going back to what you were talking about, Amy, is like what was going on when you grew up? For me, it was a lot of that where it was like we have just enough to like get some groceries, get a little bit of gas. And that's about it. There was no extra for like, hey, can I go do something with my friends. So we have to kind of like figure out what the root issue is. Because I think that informs like how much money you feel comfortable making, what kind of lifestyle you can live. And I would say on the second front is I have personally experienced and know that a lot of people don't know how much money they need to make. So a great example is like a client I just worked with a couple months ago, thought that she needed to make $100,000 to do everything that she wanted to do, move, buy a house, travel,

all this stuff. And I was like, well, let's actually figure out what the specific number is. And it was like what she was already making. It was like $60,000. So I was like, well, you can make $60,000, really be a steward of your finances and use every dollar really well to do all the things that you want. And if you can scale up to $100,000 and manage that $100,000 well, that's great too. But I think people have like a generic amount of money in mind, which I actually did a post on this a couple weeks ago. It was like, we are assigning generic amounts to things and people are striving for a goal that's not necessarily relevant to their life. So $10,000 a month, we hear a lot in the online space. We hear six figures. But if we think about

like, what do I need? It's not like prescribed across, it is prescribed across the board, but we're like, you are new in business or you have employees or you are an agency or you're a blog. And so everyone has different expenses. People have kids, people have health issues, people have aging parents they need to take care of. And that's kind of like one of the components that I like to work into the money conversation and with clients is like, let's find the number that's great for you. And then you don't need to feel guilty about like, well, I only made $5,000 this month, or I need to hit six figures before I feel successful.

It's relative. I think that that is really insightful because I think that we look at the person next to us and see what they're making or saying or whatever. And so you basically measure your success with their number. Right. You're right. But the numbers are relevant. Like their number is what works for them, but your number can be more or less in work just as well for you. So I think that's really insightful to think about that. You know, that thing, stay in your own lane kind of thing. And, but I think part of doing that is like, then you're going to have to like shut out all the noise and kind of put your blinders on a

little bit and sit with your own business and your own self and say, what do I need in order to be successful or to make this worth it? because you talked about this a little bit already, but if you're going to take time away from your family, especially like a blog. So for instance, I'll use myself as an example. Like my husband works full time. He makes enough money that can support our family. And I choose to blog on the side because I love doing it. And I also want to contribute financially to our family and all that it's extra money. And so that's why I do it. But I have to ask myself, what are the things I really want in my life too? And one of the things I want is to be able to be there for my kids when they're out of school and be able to

pick them up every day. Those are things that are really important to me. And so you sometimes have to not look at the dollar amount, but like, what is this line of work allowing me to do as well? And that is worth money too. So I don't have to hire daycare at the end of every school day. So that's money. And so I think when we can kind of shift our brain around the lifestyle that you have and what you give, sometimes it is a dollar amount, but other times it's also just the freedom

that this line of work can provide you as well. And the finances that it can open up, if that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, I was just going to say, you know, when we have people that want to start a blog, we say, you know, you can do this for any reason you want. But, you know, one of those reasons is that people do want to make some money. So I think that if there's a way that we can open that up more to people so that it's an okay thing to want, it's a good desire to have. It is taking your time when you start

a blog. So it's okay to want to be compensated for that. But if they're just starting out, like how can they get in that right mindset of like, this can be a business for me. It's okay for me to want to bring in money. And how do I go about deciding what that's going to look like for me? How do I figure out how much time to invest? How much money I can invest in this? And how much money I'm going to need to make?

How do I set those goals for myself? Yeah. So I think there's also maybe like a story in the online world of you need to be immediately successful. And that's a lot of what we see is a lot of the marketing. I quit my job and three months later, I replaced my nine to five income. I booked out my clients, whatever, Months later, I replaced my nine to five income. I booked out my clients, whatever, whatever, whatever. Okay. It's not a typical story, but it feels like it because it's all you see all day long. I will tell you from being on the other side of people's businesses and seeing what the financial situation looks like, it's not always as great as you think it is.

financial situation looks like, it's not always as great as you think it is. And if you think about like people are in charge, they are the head of their marketing department and they get to share whatever perspective they want on things. And if we are only consuming that information, like if I start a blog and it's not a success, that's air quotes for people listening. It's not a success. If it doesn't make a profit in my first six months, then it's a waste of time or it's gone down the drain. It's been a bad investment. If we think of any business in the history of the world, most businesses don't turn a profit for the first two to three years. And then it's like a small profit. And then we work up from there. So going into any sort of online business, a blog, coaching, anything, going into it with the long-term frame of mind, which also I feel like correlates to investing into your business,

understanding what to do with the money for long-term success because I see people kind of like fast and furious investing in their business because of that story of like, I have six months to make it. I have 12 months to turn a profit. And so they're like doling out thousands of dollars to coaches and courses and launching programs in the first year. And it's like draining all of the money that they're making. It's putting it on a card and then trying to dig yourself out. And you're like, okay, I have to sign this many clients. I have to have this many DM conversations today because we fast and furiously invested into our business.

If you're going into your blog thinking like, I'm going to build this slow, steady, sustainable, and I'm going to intentionally invest every dollar, we're already in a much better position. And I always encourage people to think like from the CFO mindset, which is chief financial officer, which nobody talks about in the online world either. It's always CEO, it's always what's your six figure mindset, those kinds of things. The CFO is making all of the decisions about what you need to invest in, in your business to grow it, how much you can afford. Is it a good investment? Am I going to get a return on investment? And nobody's asking those

questions in clarity calls or before they invest with people. They're just like, yeah, take my money because I want X, Y, and Z results that you head of marketing have promoted to me. So I always encourage people go in with the long-term mindset of a blog. Like for the first year, I can afford to invest X amount of dollars. Here's exactly what I need to get the skillset to build the business. Maybe it's going through the course with you too and building the foundational skills, not like the flashy stuff. How many people do you know that invest a bunch of money in the flashy, quick success, get rich quick, and then have to go back to the foundational elements because they're like, I skipped that. Those are the CFO decisions that you make. And so if you're going into your blog, you're like, great. My plan is like, this is going to be a five-year process. It's not glamorous. I don't try to sugarcoat it

for people, but this is how you need to go into any business. You would never catch any big business like, let's just invest in whatever, however much it costs. No, that's not happening in any other business anywhere else in the world besides online world. So you're like my first year, I'm going to either try to break even, or I'm going to specifically like, I'm going to take a loss my first year, but I'm going to invest however much you can afford to build a skillset. And that's totally fine. Like you can take a loss in your first year, your first two years, if you have a plan. And then maybe year three, we're planning like, okay, we're going to break even this year. And then we're going to make a small profit in year four. And that's like the long-term mindset I like people to get to think about. So if you were like in your first year,

knowing what you need to invest in, asking the right questions from the right people to get the help you need, knowing what you can afford. So, I mean, do you write out like, here's how much money I can afford to spend? Do you have like a spreadsheet that you keep track of things in? I feel like it's easy for us to get excited and emotional about it. We jump in, we take a course or we hire somebody to build a website or whatever it is without a solid plan. So I guess what you're saying is like, look at your personal finances, see, you know, figure out the amount that you're willing to spend that you can spend and then figure out how to best invest that money to grow the skillset that you'll need

to grow that business in the future. Right. That's exactly it. So like practical level, like how do you actually do it is if you're like, I want to start a blog, that's great. Let's sit down and look at like how much extra money you have coming in. If you're like part-time in the job or full-time, what's your extra amount of money per month? It all starts on that level. Cause we'd have no idea what we can do if we don't know what's going on with our personal finances because that's what's going to fund our business. So from there, we can decide like, okay, if I have 500 extra dollars per month, what can I start saving for? What can I

invest in now to build a certain skill that's going to get me to the next level? Most people will never do that. And they won't sit down and look at their finances, personal finances and think like, okay, what can I afford? We will just like see the thing that we think we need. And we're like, I'll just figure out the money portion of it, or I'll just put it on a credit card and we'll sort it out later. That's most common. The reason I'm like, we'll talk about this until I run out of breath is because so many businesses I see that I'm like, you're doing something amazing that people need. And if we don't have the gas for our business, money is the gas for your business. If we don't have that, the rest of everything doesn't happen for a long

time. So if you're like in business for a year, and then we're like, we've accumulated so much debt trying to build your business so fast and like things don't work out, which is normal. Like most businesses take a while to get off the ground and taking that pressure off of people like you don't need to succeed in six months. You can have like an actual plan to grow and like intentionally invest in what you can afford. And just think about how much pressure it takes off of like needing to sell all the time and like needing to get back your return on investment immediately. How many people I've talked to that are like, have told me, yeah, I've had like, I guess I'll keep it generic, like signing clients that you're like, I'm not sure that I can help them. Or I have to take this client because I need to pay an invoice in the next week. client because I need to pay an invoice in the next week. And I think it comes down to like the integrity side on both sides. If money is affecting both people, if you're like, I need to make money so quickly that I'm like investing in whatever, because I think it's going to help me. And you're also on the receiving money side where you're like,

I'm actually not sure if I can help this person, if it's exactly what they need, but I need the money coming in to pay my coaches or whatever it is. So it comes down to that too. And it's like, again, I will long-term vision five years. I want people in business for like the long-term making profit, helping serving people on a grand scale, instead of like, let's see what happens in the next six months. So back to your like practical question of how to do it, whatever works for you. If it's a spreadsheet, that's great. I always have people like map out the first year of business is good. If you're like, let's sit down and think about what do I specifically need? What skillset? If it's like, I would love to go through a blogging

course. Great. How much about does that cost? Let me do like some shopping around and then let me set up some clarity calls with people and like interview those people. You're giving your hard-earned money to somebody and investing it. Go ask questions, go ask them what their teaching style is. Go ask them specifically what's in their course, ask for client testimonials, ask for return on investments. That's the CFO mindset of it, of like, let me make sure my money is going to good use. So keep a spreadsheet of just like, what do I need to start saving for? About how much does it cost? And then execute on a weekly basis of like, let me set 50 bucks aside for the blogging course so I can get the skillset I need. Yeah. And I think that blogging is really such

a low-cost business to start when you compare it to starting a brick and mortar store or needing inventory or things like that. I think if people just approach it from that aspect, they really see that it is a super low barrier to getting started to create a blogging business. So it's really just wrapping your mindset around, I'm going to be in this for the long haul. You can't go in with an expectation. Like you said, you're going to be making all this money within six months or a year.

Now people do sometimes, obviously, and that's amazing. But you really have to think about how you're going to do it, how you're going to approach it, and be willing to stick with it when it's tough. Because it is tough sometimes when you're doing all this work or creating all this content and you're not getting any cash back for it just yet. But I think the people that really are willing to stick with it are the ones that end up being successful in the long run. Right. Because if you have the mindset of like,

it's okay if I'm not making a profit, you're not looking at your numbers, feeling discouraged about it. You're like, this is exactly what we planned for is okay. Exactly your point, Jennifer, it's a low barrier to entry of like, maybe it's a hundred bucks a month. Maybe what like product can I create where I can sell like one of them to get started and then like refine that product and then sell two of them the next month and like break even. That's a great start. But if you're going into it like, oh, shoot, I only sold one or I didn't make a profit this month. That's not going to be helpful for you long term mindset wise. But if you're like, that's great.

I sold one. I can refine it. I can figure out my messaging, my marketing for it because I have the time. I'm saving money for the investment that I need. It's not that big of a deal. It's expected. You've said so much about it being your mindset. And I think that that's so true and important because we do have sometimes unrealistic expectations that we hold on ourselves based on what we are seeing online. And I think that Jennifer and I try to be really honest with that with our students. You are not going to make a bajillion dollars in your first year. You're not. This is a very slow and steady pace. But the more you stick with it,

you will get to that point that you'll grow your community, you'll grow your traffic. That's what we teach them in the bootcamp is how to do that. Because a lot of people, I mean, think about anything that we do, like guns blazing kind of thing. And we go, go, go, go, go. Like what happens? We burn out because we cannot go at that pace for any length of time. And then we turn around and ask ourselves, geez, was that even worth it? You know, I burned myself out to the point that now I hate my job. So how is that any different than going and working for somebody else? That's not what we want either. So I think it's important to find the joy in what you're doing and keep the joy while also fitting the bill for what you need financially and be willing to have that season of growth.

And that could be five years, quite honestly. I love that you said, basically, what meets the eye is not always what's happening behind closed doors. And I think that that's very, very true. And there's a lot who think you're very successful or you're not successful at all. And we really have no idea what's going on behind anyone's business, nor is it our business to know what's going on necessarily, but we just have to keep showing up and eyes on what we're doing and ask yourself those important questions. And so I think that knowing what our personal financial situation looks like is important. So let's say somebody is already in a significant amount of debt.

Do they start a blog or not? What's your recommendation on that? Kind of get a handle on their personal finances before they would decide to, quote unquote, fix it by starting another business. What would your encouragement be for somebody like that who is looking at blogging possibly as a way to get out of debt? I don't know. What do you think about that? Yeah. I'm trying to think back to a client scenario that was similar. I think disclaimer to think back to like a client scenario that was similar. I think like disclaimer, it matters. Like every person is different, but I would say generally, because I think the barrier

to entry is low. I'm not like anti-debt if it's going to do something for you. So I think, again, I have to come back to like the CFO, do we have a plan question? If it's just like, this is going to be a magic pill that's going to solve all my problems. Probably not. Probably not the best investment. If it's like, I'm going to intentionally invest into this business, and I have the time, and I have like a little bit of extra money that I can devote to this while still taking care of my other priorities where it's not like, I don't know if I want to say like all my eggs in one basket, but if you're like,

I'm going to put $10,000 on my credit card and just hope it works out without like thinking it through all the way, not the best investment. But I think it's like, it would be a good option for people as like the side hustle. If you're intentional about it and you're like, yeah, I can afford whatever, 50 bucks a month and then like save for the help that I need if I'm again thinking long-term. But so many people get into the mindset of it's going to solve all my problems, which I've seen like just from specifically a money standpoint of if I earn some amount of money, it's going to fix all my problems. It's like $10,000 a month and it creates more and more and more problems. So it's kind of a similar mindset of like, if I have this side hustle, it's going to fix all my problems. Not always the case. It's the same thing. Like if

anybody's ever dieted, like when I reached my goal weight, like my life is going to be exponentially better. And it's, it's not like, it's not, cause that's not, you have to find the piece in the journey throughout it and not just focus only on the end goal. You know, I think that we have to find the joy in the journey part of it. And like, what are you learning through it? So when you start a blog, I can think back to when I started, when Jennifer started and like, when we started Spark, for instance, there were so many unknowns. And there is a lot that you learn in the process. And yes, we've made money and things like that. But I think what you learn more is I'm really capable of some pretty amazing things. And I can help a lot of people with what I've learned. And that's awesome to thoroughly

enjoy what you do. So if you're considering starting a blog and you're a little nervous to invest in yourself or in the business at all, I would just encourage you to ask yourself how you want to feel and then almost chase the feeling, you know, and say, am I willing to invest in myself and my business in order to feel, you know, kind of a more at peace presence in regards to the work that I get to do each and every day. I know that I'm super thankful for what we get to do every day. Do you want to start building a foundation for your blog? Do you have questions you need to answer before you start? Do you wish that you had someone there

to hold your hand through the process? We are so excited to share that we have created a membership community just for you. The blog Depot is an online course and membership community that will teach you the foundations you need to build a blog. We teach you about niching down, finding the right mindset, the best platform to build a blog on, and so much more. With monthly coaching calls inside the community, you will find the support you need to finally make your dream a reality. The doors are open to join this amazing blogging community, and we can't wait to help you. Find the link to join the blog depot in the show notes. Right. Absolutely. I think it's always about the process and the skill set you're building

that's going to like be a long-term service to other people and i think that gets lost in translation a lot of times and i just like while you were talking i had a memory of somebody who was like always wanted 10k months and she was like consistently getting 10k months but she was so burned out never got to burned out, never got to enjoy her money, never got to have the freedom that she initially started her business for. And it's exactly that process of like, what are we doing along the way? That's like a service to ourselves while being a service to other people, because you have to have both components there. And I've been comparing money to health for a couple months here,

because I find that it's such a relevant connection. If we're like, I want to lose 50 pounds, that's a fine goal. But all of the habits and the foundational elements that need to be in place to reach that goal, those are more important, I find. And it's the same thing with money. It's like, how do we feel about money? How do we think about it? Do we feel guilty every time we spend money? Do we have arguments with our spouse about money every time something comes up? Those are more important and will give you the monetary wins as a consequence of just developing the habits. So I've been doing a health experiment and applying the same principles that I teach clients to my health. So it's just been focusing on like the habits component of things. So I started and this is what I do with clients. I just give them like one piece of the puzzle that we focus on first. like, let's just develop a habit of walking three times a week. And that's it. Like, don't worry about anything else. Just develop that habit. And we can build on that later. Because even if I do

nothing else, I've added a healthy habit to my life, right? That I'm better off if I do nothing else. But it naturally makes you like, okay, well, maybe I'll go for like an extra fourth walk this week. Or now I'm feeling inspired to make like a healthy breakfast. And we can add those things in. walk this week, or now I'm feeling inspired to make like a healthy breakfast. And we can add those things in. People try to do money things, the same as diet health things. I'm going to wake up at 5am. I'm going to work out six days a week for an hour. I'm going to ask myself to wake up early, change my schedule, make time in my day, be more tired, be more hungry, ask myself how to cook healthy meals right off the bat and learn all of these skills all at one time. And then we're like, is it a wonder that I'm burned out? And then I go

back to my old lifestyle because I haven't given myself any sustainable things to do. And money is the exact same way. People are like, I'm going to immediately stop spending money on everything that I enjoy. I'm never going to go out to eat. I'm never going to spend money on the things that I like. I'm going to stop going on vacation. I'm going to earn $10,000 a month. I'm going to invest all this money into my business. Is it no wonder that we're burned out? We're like, I don't want to do this anymore because we've asked ourselves to make so many changes so quickly. It's outrageous. Yes. I love that attitude. I live very much by the same way of life. Haven't always,

but have for the last several years. And I think what's important about that is because when you do those small, tiny habits, they become your lifestyle. They become something that is second nature. It's not something that feels so difficult forever. Like when you first start a new habit or like a new money habit or health habit or whatever, there is a point that it's like, this feels a little off because your, your brain isn't used to that. The more that you get your brain kind of used to that. So I know like you host a money hour, for instance, every Friday and you like work with people during that hour.

I think you do it on Instagram or on zoom. Where do you do that at on zoom? So like, with people during that hour. I think you did on Instagram or on zoom. Where do you do that at on zoom? So like, that's a money hour. Like you encourage people to spend that one hour a week on their money. I mean, that's something that a lot of people probably are like, I don't want to spend an hour talking about my money or thinking about my money. Cause it's a lot better if I just ignore that it's actually happening. But that, I mean, that's, that's just a habit that then you've created in your own business and then are teaching other people how to do that. That can be very, I think it actually helps you.

Jennifer says a lot, like structure is actually good. It actually gives us more freedom. And I think that that's essentially like what the money hour will do too. If you really know what's going on, then it allows us more freedom to know what we're capable of. And when we build these small little habits and maybe that habit is just every week, get inside your money and see what's going on. Take a look at it. What's coming in? What

have you had, you know, expense wise. And just, I think make it a little almost impersonal. Like I think we have to do that. I think we're very emotional when it comes to money. I'm speaking about myself here. Very emotional when it comes to money. And there's a lot of feelings wrapped up with me and money. And I know I'm not alone. I know there's several people listening to this who can very much so relate. But if we kind of take the emotion out of it and just ask, what do we need financially? What do the numbers need to look like? And what am I able and willing to give? Then we can better come at it in a less way filled with guilt and shame because there is a lot of guilt and shame wrapped in money. Right. That was the whole purpose of money hours. Just show up. That's all you have to do. Just show

up. And asking people to show up for the first time for their money is scary. I try to make it like a welcoming experience where you can literally show up and not even have a question in mind and just dip your toe in. And I'll say, go try this this week. And that's it. Don't expect yourself like, okay, now I'm like on the choo-choo train of financial health. Just go try this this week. And back to your point of like, like making it a sustainable habit, giving yourself the space and like the grace to adjust to things, I think is good.

So if I go back to like my walking example, like I was annoyed that I was more tired and more hungry and I had to make adjustments for that. And so if I'm asking someone like, just go track your expenses, like just your expenses this week, you're going to be like, I don't want to do it. We're going to have resistance to it. We're going to like have certain things come up and that's totally fine. You can come to the table

and say like, I didn't want to do this. And I felt guilty about, you know, how much I spent at coffee shops or at restaurants. I'm like, that's great. Let's work through it and try something different next week. That's okay. And it all has to start on like, I feel that granular level where it's like, just let's just take one thing and like, let yourself have the grace to adjust to it and get used to it. Because everything else stems from that place. Because as you mentioned, it feels like an overwhelming thing. and it's really big and it doesn't need to be. Because I think if we start with like one tiny thing of like, let's just come to money

hour and you don't even have to have a question. I'll just ask you a question and then I'll give you some tool to like work through. And that's a great place to start. It doesn't need to be an overhaul of everything. Yeah. So we're really getting down into the details and figuring out, how much money do I have? How much money do I want?

How does time factor into that? Because I think that's another piece of the equation. Because you're probably going to have to... If you need a certain amount of income and you decide to start a blog to make income, you're probably going to have to keep your job for a while while you build this business. So that's going to require a greater time investment. So I know one of the things that we encourage people to think about is, where are you spending your time? How can you better spend your time? Where can you find these hours? But is there a value attached to those hours too? And should people look at it from that perspective of my time is valuable

and I should attach some sort of like, I don't know if it's an hourly rate or how should they go about looking at how they spend their time? Yeah. I'm going to revert back to like long-term vision. I think in any business, you're going to expect to spend more hours, more energy upfront building things. And I think that's okay. I think it's great to have a goal of getting to a place where it's like, okay, things are more established now. And I have X amount of time to work on my blog per week, creating products. Or if you have like a podcast or you have like some other money generating thing, that's great to add. Like, well, you're going to know this by looking at your money of like, how much is that generating for me? Is it worth it? Is it not worth

it? We can't analyze that information if we don't have it. So we have to like, if you're spending 20 hours up front and you're making, you're selling like a $20 ebook, one of them per month, maybe that's not the best avenue for us. But again, long-term mindset of like, okay, well, did I spend 20 hours building a foundation for something that's going to make me allow me to earn more money in the future, which is totally fine. But if it's like consistently spending a bunch of time and not making a bunch of money that compensates you fairly for your time, that's something that you can evaluate when you're looking through what money's coming in, your time going out. If you want to keep track of your time per week, I think that's maybe a

good exercise. As you're building your business, you're like, okay, how much extra time? Maybe I have 10 hours a week to spend on my blog, making sure that the time is well spent, which I'm sure you to go over in your course and in your teaching is what's the best way to spend it. Because I'm, I know for a fact, there's a lot of people in the beginning stages of business where we're doing the things that make us feel productive, but are not the most productive, which is okay. Like everyone goes through that stage. I literally started an entire podcast to feel productive. That was not useful for me and wasn't generating the profit that I needed it to. And it was taking a long time. I know, you know how long it takes to plan, schedule, get the blog post up. So if we're thinking like I have 10 hours, what's the best

way for me to spend that? That's a good investment of like learning a skill set and getting the help that you need to utilize those 10 hours really well in a way that will save you months and years of your time of like not spinning your wheels, doing productive in air quotes, things that are not eventually going to generate profit. But putting in the work is not a bad thing. Putting in time and effort where you don't see a return for a while is okay. It's like an investment into your business. And that's totally fine.

Yeah. I think you just have to see that needle going up a little bit, even if it's just a hair going up. So I'm sure you did the podcast for a little while and realized this is not a valuable use of my time. And so it's okay to let go of it. Yeah. I think that that's important.

You have to keep track of those things too, in order to know what's working and what's not like your money. Don't be afraid to get in the details of your data in regards to your blog or your podcast or your product or whatever that you're doing and ask yourself, is this worth the amount of time that's going into it? And how do you feel at the end of the month? Are you completely ran dry and you didn't get to pay yourself either? Then how are you feeling about your business? And it is that go, go back to your, why go back to the reason that you started the business? Is this how I want to feel about it? And I think too, you've mentioned this several times throughout. It's okay to have a building year. Like it's okay to have a couple of building years to know, but I think it's

important to have that mindset going in. Like, okay, this is going to be a building year. Like it's okay to have a couple of building years to know, but I think it's important to have that mindset going in like, okay, this is going to be a building year. Like I am not going to make a hundred thousand dollars this year. And that does not make me a failure. That makes me a person who's building a business. And that doesn't mean that that won't happen someday, but that's not the goal right now. And that's important to voice, I think, because a lot of us go into a business like, well, I want to make the most money I can out of the gate. But I love that you're talking about building those really important foundations. And sometimes in order to build those foundations, it does require investment of time and money and knowing that that's okay. So back to what you said, you have to know where

you're at personally to know what you can invest. And so we have to leave aside some of the emotions and feelings regarding money and just have a really honest conversation with ourself about where we're standing and then what we're able and willing to give. Yeah. And it's not like a glamorous conversation that people like want to have either. No. And it's not easy to market. Like I spent a year of just like slogging through the mud marketing, like it's going to take you decades to learn the skillset with money and save and like get out of debt. And like, I feel like just recently I've been able to like nail messaging down because it's not something people want to hear. They want to hear I'll make 10 K in 30 days and I'll be booked out. And that's what people invest in. And I'm like, I will give you a skill

set that's going to feed you for a lifetime, but you're going to have to put in the work and it's going to be a while, but I promise you it will serve you for the rest of your life. Instead of like, I'll make 10 K and then I'll be super burned out. And then I'm going to go back to corporate and I'm going to hate my life. But isn't that kind of the society that we live in is this instant gratification. Like we want it right now. And so we don't want to take the road, less traveled, which is the slower road. And you stop and smell the flowers every once in a while, you know, like people don't want that. No, but I think that what ends up happening is people like do the whole go hard or go home.

And then they're like, I'm going home. Like I'm done. And then they come back and say, okay, how can I do this in a more gentle and peaceful way that serves me? Like not, not just in my business, but in my life too, because the way I was doing it before, I want nothing to do it that way because it did not serve me. It just drained me. So how can I do this a different way? And I think what you've, what you've shared today has been so important about those small, small habits, getting into your money and knowing what you have. Yeah. I think you've just given some amazing tips and tricks, tools for people who are thinking about doing this. So we've talked about how this can take a couple of years or longer and you're getting some intangible benefits back. You're enjoying the process, you're learning new skills,

you're helping people. But at some point in time, you want some motivation. You want a way to keep going. You're going to have to be making some money. How do you figure out when to pay yourself? How much of what you're making you should invest back in your business? And is there a formula for this? Or again, is this just something that you figure out based on your own needs and goals? I think that there's so much advice out there in terms of how much...

You'll hear people say, invest 100% back in your business for years. But I think that can be discouraging when you want to enjoy what you've created. What is your advice? Of course. I'm all about the balance of like, enjoy the money that you're working so hard to earn, intentionally invest back into your business and like, enjoy the ride along the way. So there are like generic, I feel formulas, and I don't really know that they apply so much to the online space as much as like a brick and mortar traditional business. So I have people pay themselves weekly. So I have like my CFO days is what I call them your day to check on your money. You're going through your entire process of like, what did I earn this past week? What did I spend

this past week? And what's coming in? A lot of people are not doing that part of it, which makes it really hard to plan for anything. Because if we're like, okay, I have an invoice going out next month, I know for sure that money's coming in. I have payment plans or I have membership money rolling in. What is that amount of money? That's the hard part to nail down for irregular income. So that's part of the process. And then you're looking at, let's make it simple. Like you earned $2,000, your business, $500 went towards business expenses for the month. And then we're like, okay, now let me put aside money for taxes on what I earned, making your life easy. Tax season does not need to be an overwhelming, scary thing. Especially if you're doing it on a weekly basis, just put that in your

tax account. And then we're paying ourselves. We're like, what do I do with this hard-earned money? If we have, what we talked about at the beginning of this episode is like, we have a plan for growing and we're like, I want to do the blogging bootcamp. Here's how much it costs. I need to do it in six months, like six months from now. We're like, okay, I need to save $250 per month. We just paid ourselves, let's say $1,000. 250 is going towards your blogging bootcamp so you can pay for it in full. That way you're not like, I'm gonna say it like delicately. People get into an investment and they are like,

are expecting to make their money back so quickly, but they're like feeling the pressure of needing to make sales and also use the energy to build the skillset. And you're not enjoying or taking the time to intentionally develop the skillset because you're like, I have to make sales to pay for this current investment. Or we had a coach that we are still in payment plan for, and we now have this new investment. So we have the pressure of both things. It's kind of like bad juju. It doesn't feel nice

to be in that position. So it's like, how can we set ourselves up? So we put money towards what our business needs in the future. And then we're like, great, what does my life cost? Do I need to pay off some credit card debt? What does my family need? How much does that cost? And intentionally taking care of your business. What does my business need? Intentionally taking care of yourself. What am I paying myself? Literally if it's $50, that's great. Pay yourself 50 bucks and then make a plan for that money that you work so hard for. That's the air quotes mistake. I see a lot of people making is like, you worked so hard to earn this money and we're not letting it work for us. We got to like close that gap and do so. Like if it's an extra $50 payment to your credit card,

that's a fantastic way to use your hard-earned money. And again, it's like going back to the mindset portion of it. Every time you're doing something positive with your money, are you not proving it to yourself that you're doing good with your money, that you're letting it do something positive for yourself? So that's like your weekly process to pay yourself, to take care of your money, and to intentionally invest back into your business. So that amount of money is different. If you're like, I need a one-on-one coach or I need a group program, what does that cost you? And maybe you're setting aside 50 bucks per month to pay for it it doesn't need to be like some people recommend 30 of your income if you're in the beginning stages

that's not really realistic that's all your money has gone to taxes and investing back into your business so it is like a very personal process like what your business needs and of course like if you're a product-based business if you're an agency, if you're a blog, those investments are going to differ in energy and the amount of money only you know what that is. So if I'm just like put 30% away for taxes, and then put 30% away for future investments, you're like, okay, what do I do with now I have $10 left, what do I do? And it's, it doesn't feel nice. Maybe you need 10% to go towards investments. And that's great. I think that that just reiterates that you have to be in it often. You have to look at what's coming in often because with a blog, it is.

So I do a lot of affiliate sales, for instance. Some pay monthly, some pay weekly, some pay randomly. Like some I don't get sales from for a while. Like I got paid from an affiliate this week that somebody must use as decode. I probably haven't got paid from that affiliate in six months, you know? So you just, especially if you do a lot of like affiliate sales or brand sponsorships, you don't know when those are coming in all the time. I mean, I know my, my ones that I get paid every month because people use those codes every month do, but some of them don't, you know, so it is very up and down and some months you'll have super high months and some months they won't be as high. So I think it is important to get in there weekly and just have an idea of what's coming in and what needs to go out as well. Do you recommend them doing that like on a,

on an app of any sort, like, you know, quick in or QuickBooks, or how do you encourage people to kind of keep track of what's going on in their business? Yeah. So when I'm doing with clients, I set up whatever system works best for them. It's like pen and paper. I have a hard copy budget planner they can use if they want to be like, and paper, I have a hard copy budget planner they can use if they want to be like, and I think it's really important to do it yourself. Like a lot of people look at the money and they're like, I'm going to hire a bookkeeper and that will take care of my money situation. But you've handed over all your decision-making ability, all of your data about what you need to do in your business to somebody else who's literally not going to make those decisions for you. And you now have like no data to look at. So I think it's really

important for in the beginning, everyone needs to do hands on and do it so that they know what's going on. I've had people that were like, I spent $70,000 in marketing this year, and I couldn't tell you what it was, because they have a bookkeeper that is just like marketing category and they have no idea. So you can't tell what your return is if it's worth $70,000 to you or if you're like, where did that money go where I could have used it better? So you can use, I have like a spreadsheet system that like not complicated. I'm not like a spreadsheet guru and make it simple. It's literally free. So you can download it from my Instagram, from my website. So you can keep track on a spreadsheet. I also do my bookkeeping in QuickBooks so I can keep track of business expenses. It makes my

tax season a breeze also because I do it weekly, which means I have like two things record every week. And it's not like at the end of the quarter where you're like, oh my gosh, I have to do my bookkeeping. And you're like horrified that you have to do it. Just do it weekly. It will literally take three minutes and your life will be much better. I wanted to talk about the idea of people feeling like taking care of your money is going to be restrictive. And it actually does the exact opposite for you. So people are listening to this and like, Oh, that seems like a lot of work. I don't really want to do that. And I'm like, you get to choose which hard you would like to do. Tell me, tell me to my face

that it's not hard to know how much money is coming in to live essentially invoice to invoice, to not have any idea what kind of money is coming in, to be in the space where you're paying a past coach and a current coach and needing to make sales and like feel that pressure. That's very difficult and a lot of stress in your life. This is also hard to learn a skill, but I try to share the process with people. So I've been basically working on my money for the past six years, going into it, knowing like, this is also going to be hard for me to develop a new skillset. I'm also, and I share this as like, I built up an emergency fund and had to use it twice. That's hard to go through. Is it worth it? Yeah, it really, really is. Because it lets you get through hard times. It takes off the pressure. Like think about the

hardest time in your life so far. Would $20,000 in the bank not have been like the best blessing ever? It would have been. And so we get to choose like, this is hard to not have any idea what's going on with your money, feel out of control, have arguments about money with your spouse. One of the leading causes for divorce is money. And if we were just like, I'm just going to let it be whatever that's, I feel more restrictive than taking the time to learn a skillset that's going to serve you. So in the past six years, I've like gotten out of debt, went back into next. I didn't plan for something, learned a lesson. I've built up an emergency fund, spent years saving for it, had to drain it and start over

from zero. Like that's also hard. But the return that I get from that of like, I was able to spend time with my dad when he got sick. Like I, there's no replacement for that. And being able to do that was the best thing that I ever gave myself. And if you're like going into it, thinking that like, this is going to serve me and my family, like the kind of like prosperity that we've been able to build into clients' lives is like immeasurable because it's like, I'm able to give my kids college that I had to struggle for. I had to work full time and take out student loans. And then I was a hundred thousand dollars in debt. I spent my first five years at my job, miserable job, just trying to pay those off. I'm like, what if you could give your future generations an easier time? That's the mindset I want people to have about their money.

It's like, yes, it's going to be hard, but it's your entire life. It's everything. It will touch everything. It will save arguments. It will save your business. Most businesses, the ones that go under, 85% do so because of money problems. So if I can fix 85 percent of businesses, I mean, like, honestly, they're usually not super complicated. It's just that I'm asking you to do the work. You're asking them to get uncomfortable. Yeah. But you're going to be uncomfortable the other way. Totally. I'll like positively be uncomfortable instead of negatively be uncomfortable. Well, and the uncomfortableness doesn't last forever. I mean, think of any new habit or new change or whatever, like those first few weeks or even a couple of months,

it probably is going to feel really uncomfortable. I know when I talk about money, sometimes I can get very stressed, but I think the only way to get past that feeling too is just to continue doing it, like continue having the conversations, continue getting in there. And like pretty soon it just happens very naturally. Like, okay, this is where I know that my money is.

This is what I can spend it on. This is where I want to invest it. And then move on. You get through that sticky kind of middle that you need to get through in order to get to the other side where, like we said earlier, there is more freedom. And I love what you've mentioned about being able to have that money in the bank, for instance, and then being there for your dad. That's why we do these things. That's why we have these kind of businesses. And it's to be able to be there, to have... I mean, I often think of this as a freedom-based business. This is... My job can work around my life. Exactly. based business. This is my job can work around my life. And that's a blessing in order to do that. But that doesn't mean that we haven't gotten that out of a lot of hard work, blood, sweat,

and tears going into it. It's not easily built, but it's worth it to build it. Yeah. And much like my walking habit, you start to enjoy it. You're like, I'm feeling stressed. I need to get this energy out in enjoy it. You're like, I'm feeling stressed. I need to get this energy out in some way. You're like, oh, I'll go for a walk. And you're starting to think about it as like a way to enjoy moving your body, getting outside. Your money is exactly the same where you're like, oh, I'm feeling a little stressed about this upcoming payment. Let me just sit down or using your money for good. Like, oh, I get to go on vacation. I get to buy a house. Like, let me go put money towards the things that are going to enrich my life. And you're like looking forward to it.

I look forward to it every Friday. I'm like, great. What do I get to go put money towards? I get to go give money away to people that need it more than I do. You get to go like, enjoy the experience after a few months of developing the habit. You start to like, look forward to the process. Amazing. I think you've helped like shift the mindset a little bit around it and make it feel a lot less scary and kind of open up that can of worms that needs to be talked about, you know, because I think a lot of new bloggers just need to know, like in the beginning, I would encourage any new blogger, just do this from the get-go. I don't care if you're making $2 a month to start and you have $50 in expenses towards plugins

or subscriptions or whatever. Write it down and know. Watch the journey of your blog shift and change. Be willing to celebrate those things that come your way, like your first brand sponsorship or your first affiliate sale or whatever. All those will build. They will continue to build and grow.

And don't be afraid to get in the nooks and crannies of your business to see what is serving you and what's not. Be willing to track some time and always keep your why in the back of your mind and know, why am I doing this business? And is it worth the time that I'm investing? Or what needs to leave in order for me to continue to do this, but for this to be a profitable and enjoyable business? Because that's personally what I think blogging is. And I think you can find it. If you're losing the joy, then it's time to look back and ask yourself what needs to change. Yeah.

And of course, money-wise, if you feel like you haven't enjoyed all of your time and energy for three years, it's going to be hard to carry on. It's all part of the process of like, great, I broke even this month. That's fantastic. And I feel good about that. Yeah. Thank you so much for helping us because I think that's what this was, not just talking to us. I think you helped us, all of us listening. And I know that people listening are going to want to come to your money hour and connect with you. So Angela, can you please let them know how they can connect with you?

Of course. So I do money hour every Friday, 9 to 10 a.m. Pacific time. You can come anytime during the hour. You can stay for five minutes and ask a question. Last week, we did a co-working session. So we set up our money plan for June. So people are like ready to go for the next month. So you can come for however long you

want. It's flexible. Stay however long you want. If you go to my Instagram, you can sign up for the next one. The link is always there. You can go to my website, AngelaHatchie.com. And it's right there on the front page. So would love to see you there. I always give out like free resources to people. I have about a bajillion. So whatever works best for you, come show up and I will ask you questions and give you something to start taking action. Cause I think that's the most important thing. It's like, I'm going to leave you with one small way that you can take action this week and then show up next week and we'll build on it from there. And are those, are those free? Yeah. Yep. So that's just a free resource that she offers her community.

I would highly encourage you to just join and connect with her. It's a blessing to do so. So thank you so much. What is your Instagram handle as well? Yeah, it's just at Angela Hatchie. My last name is H-A-C-C-H-E. Awesome. We will put all those links in the show notes as well. Great. And thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It was great to talk

to you. Yes. And what an honor to be on your podcast. I really appreciate it. Awesome. Thank you. Thanks so much for tuning in today. If you'd like to continue the conversation about blogging with us, please find us on Instagram at Spark Media Concepts. You can also sign up for our weekly newsletter where we share blogging tips and inspiration. You can sign up by finding the link in the show notes. For those of you who are ready for the next step and want to start your own blog, join the waitlist for the Ultimate Blog Bootcamp. The link to join the waitlist is also in the show notes. Go out and make today a great day.