The Ultimate Blog Podcast - 58. Importance of a Privacy Policy with Berkley Sweetapple

Episode Date: January 24, 2023

Do you know the basics of what a blogger needs on their website in order to be protected? Berkley Sweetapple, a business and trademark attorney who works with bloggers, is on the podcast today to talk about all the legal things that you need on your blog. Tune in to hear all that Berkley has to share! Thanks for listening! Connect with us on Instagram: @sparkmediaconceptsCheck out The Blog Depot. This is a community and course that we have set up for you if you need questions answered before you start your blog. Join the waitlist for The Ultimate Blog Bootcamp, our online course and coaching that helps you build the blog that you have always dreamed of.SHOW NOTES: www.sparkmediaconcepts.com/episode58

Welcome to the Ultimate Blog Podcast with Amy Reinecke and Jennifer Draper. We're on a mission to empower women who want to start or grow their own blog. This podcast is for women who want to learn blogging basics and who crave inspiration and encouragement. Whether you're just getting started or have been a blogger for years, we're excited to welcome you into this space where we are passionate about creating community over competition. We are bloggers who want to encourage you to believe in your potential, step outside the norm, and step into a life where you create your own schedule, your own success, and your own story. Join us for weekly episodes as we navigate blogging

and work from home life, all while raising a family and having some serious fun along the way. all while raising a family and having some serious fun along the way. Today, we have Berkeley Sweet Apple on the Ultimate Blog Podcast to talk about all the legal things that you need on your blog. And I know that for some of you listening, this is not what we would consider a fun topic, but it is a really important one. And Berkeley's going to make it fun. So Berkeley, welcome to the Ultimate Blog Podcast. Thank you for having me. Yes. So we kind of want to dive in today to talk about the basics of what a blogger needs on their website in order to be protected. And if you want to just kind of start out a little bit by telling people more about who you are,

want to just kind of start out a little bit by telling people more about who you are. And then we're going to kind of dive into that today. Sure. So I am now a business and trademark attorney, but I started my career in business litigation, which if you watch any kind of law TV show, it's probably what you imagine lawyers to do, which is going to court fighting over, you know, poorly drafted contracts or money or something bad that happens. So I spent seven years of my life doing that, which I hated. And on the side, I wrote a legal lifestyle blog. So my goal from day one out of getting out of law school, I was not going to be an attorney. That was just not my calling. I was going to find some other thing to do. And blogging sounded great. It was like 2014. It was kind of when blogging was just getting a name for itself. And I don't even think people use the term

influencers yet. But I started this blog and I joined courses and Facebook groups to monetize the blog because I wanted to make money from it. And I became a resource for women in the blogging space for all things legal. So people were asking me questions about the legal side of blogging when they found out I was an attorney, like, do I need a privacy policy? Do I need to trademark? What's the terms of use? Things like that. And I had no idea because I was a litigator. So I sort of educated myself on these different topics. And then seven years later started a online legal template shop where I sell affordable DIY templates where you can kind of fill in your information. And then I also work one-on-one with bloggers and coaches and other online course creators and business owners. I love that you have a blogging past because you truly do understand what bloggers need then.

That's really... I think that's just really important to note here as we dive into this episode is she's been exactly where you are if you're a blogger and knows exactly what you need and how to protect yourself. And like I said, this isn't always a fun topic, but it is a really important topic that we do need to dive into, especially as you are blogging and considering yourself a business, which I know that if you're a new blogger, I think it's hard to kind of wrap your mind around that like I'm a business, but truly you are. Blogging is a business. And having these important things on your website

is just one way to take yourself even more seriously and make sure that you're providing things in a safe way for yourself. So let's kind of dive into what's a privacy policy first, if you want to share what a privacy policy is and why it is important for them. I can totally understand how this is not the most fun topic. I actually distinctly remember when I started my blog and I had the same mental block about it being a business. I didn't really take it seriously. And I remember having the thought of, I know I need a privacy policy. I have no idea where to start. I have no idea where to get one.

And because I'm an attorney and I know that there's risks surrounding this, I'm procrastinating now on launching because I don't want to deal with that risk. And I don't know how to deal with that risk. And it was just a huge mental block for me to even like the privacy policy, which is sort of what led me to the templates. So to answer your question, a privacy policy you've probably seen in the footer of websites. It's a legal document that tells your website visitors and users how you store, share, collect their personal user data. So their name, their phone number, their email address. And we see this a lot with blogs with opt-ins or freebies.

So when we offer something for free, but what we really want is their email address for marketing purposes, we have to now, under several different privacy laws, get their consent for collecting that data and sending them marketing materials. But we also have to have several things on our privacy policy that tells them what we're collecting, like what types of information we're collecting, when we're collecting it, how we're collecting it, how we're using their information. Are we selling their information to third parties? Like how we're storing and protecting their information. And like I said, there's a few laws that, you know, make this a requirement, both in the US and in the European Union. But also, if you're running any kind of like Facebook ads, Google ads, those third parties require you to have a privacy policy on your landing page.

Could that also apply if you're tracking data via something like Google Analytics as well? Yes. Okay. So that basically applies to pretty much every blogger who starts their blog with the intention of growing it. They are going to be collecting email addresses to grow their email list. They're going to be installing Google Analytics so they can see people coming to their site. So I guess the short answer here is when you start a blog, you are going to want to consider adding a privacy policy to your blog. Yes, absolutely. There's one big new law, which is the EU GDPR, which you might have heard of. It applies to EU residents, and it's one of the more comprehensive, stricter privacy laws. And the issue is you don't really know whether you're collecting data from

somebody who's sitting in the EU. So you could be violating this law without knowing it. You may think you're only dealing with people in the US, but somebody is on vacation and they're sitting in the EU. So you really should comply with all of the requirements that they have because you don't know who's coming to your website and who's accessing it and who is opting into your forms. That's a good point. I hadn't really thought of the way that you just put that was that it might be somebody who's subscribed in the US and lives here, but they could be on vacation, you know? And so I haven't really thought about that, which is why we're having you on this podcast. Right. And some people think, oh, I can just, you know, I can configure my settings so

that I'm not collecting data from those people. And you're sort of discriminating against them. And that goes against the law as well. Or people think, you know, I can track people by their IP address. Well, those aren't accurate. And people use all kinds of tricks to avoid being, you know, trackable by their IP address. So better to be safe than sorry. There are both the penalties of not complying with the GDPR are pretty steep. So you have potential fines from the government, which are up to, don't quote me on this because

it's been a while, but 20 million euros or 4% of your income, whichever is higher. So not something you want to be messing around with. You're also subject to private causes of action. So it's not just the government and the limited resources of any government, but it's actually somebody who could have been involved in a data breach who's suing you privately. Got it. So by somebody having a privacy policy that's been developed by a trusted attorney, they will be covered. Is that correct? Yes. That is, you want to be in compliance with the GDPR. Okay. That's where the fines come in. If you're not compliant. All right. So basically what Berkeley's saying is don't phone in your privacy policy. I would not suggest getting a privacy policy just from anywhere or copying it off of someone else's site.

I would... I mean, this is just my recommendation. Years of doing this as a blog coach, we used to not give people... We used to say that we can't advise or whatever. And I'm still not advising. I'm not an attorney. But I'm telling you that this is something that you don't advise or whatever. And I'm still not advising. I'm not an attorney, but I'm telling you that this is something that you don't want to ignore.

And it's also, I don't want to scare anybody. We didn't bring Berkeley on or any of the other attorneys that we have interviewed for our podcast. We don't bring them on here to scare you into this. We bring it on for knowledge and information so you're protected because we find that to be very important.

And then you know, if I don't do this, then this is what could happen. And that's a risk that you take. And we can talk about that. So privacy policy is one of the most important things. And then what other things do you recommend having on their site in order to protect them as well? So the second biggest thing is having a terms of use, or you may see it written as terms and conditions. And that is basically your contract with anyone who comes to your website or purchases your products. So that will have things like your refund policy and your intellectual property rights. It'll state, you know, your policy for, can they download something once for personal use?

Can they sell it commercially? A lot of times with digital downloads, things like that, you're going to want to say, this is for personal use only. You can't go and resell my products. It will have important disclaimers on there. So if you're a food blogger, you'll want to have disclaimers on there related to what you're talking about. So maybe an allergy disclaimer, maybe a nutrition advice disclaimer saying, you know, I'm not, this isn't a substitute for going to a doctor or talking to a nutritionist. purposes only, things like that. And then it'll have how any disputes are handled, which is an important clause in any contract, whether it's your website terms of use or your contract with a client. Basically, if you do violate these terms, or if you have something happens to you

as a result of relying on my website, this is how disputes are handled, whether that's arbitration or it'll state which state you're in. So you want to make sure that your own state is governing what's happening. Email marketing is an essential piece of blogging. Growing your email list is just as important as SEO and keyword research in our opinion. And in order to grow your list, you need a reliable platform that will allow you to connect with your community and turn them into email subscribers. That's where ConvertKit comes in. ConvertKit is the go-to marketing hub for creators like you that helps you grow and monetize your audience with ease. ConvertKit allows you to grow your

audience and reach, put your funnels on autopilot and earn an income with your email list, all with an easy to use platform that is approachable, even for beginners. Click the link in our show notes to learn more about the different plans that ConvertKit has and how it can help you propel your business to the next level. So I think my next question in regards to the terms of use or terms and conditions would be, I mean, we've kind of covered this a little bit, but what are some of the risks there if you were to not put that on your site or to ignore that piece of it? First is being exposed to liability. So you always want to be covered as much as possible from liability. The next is that you don't want to have any kind of like oral contract or a contract that doesn't exist at all. You want something that you can direct back

to so that, and this is sort of where my litigation background comes in. If you ever were to get a lawsuit that didn't have any merit to it. So say somebody read your food blog and they are suing you because they had an allergic reaction to some ingredient. And for whatever reason you're brought into the lawsuit, what you want to be able to do is not spend a ton of money on attorneys and litigation. And the quickest way to have that is to have a defense that is very clear and in writing and sort of bulletproof. And so if you got sued in their home state, say they live in California and you live in Florida and they sued you, you could file a motion to dismiss or later on a motion for summary judgment, which is just basically saying

your lawsuit is meritless. And you're, you point to this document that says, this is what they agreed to when they purchased my products or went to my website. One, it says we're not liable for this too. It says that any dispute is, you know, takes in Florida. And three, this is the wrong court because we agreed to binding arbitration and not state court in California. So you want to have an easy, quick way to get out of something. Yeah, that makes sense. And just to clarify, this applies not only if you're selling products on your site, but just as a blogger as well, just the content that you're providing that people can come and look at for free as well.

Is that correct? Absolutely. So there are a lot of clauses in a terms of use that have nothing to do with selling or refunds or payment. So there are clauses where they accept the terms of your website. They accept that these are the terms of accessing the website. They acknowledge that it's the terms of accessing the website. They acknowledge that it's for informational purposes only. They acknowledge that if you provide website links to

third parties and there's a virus on that third party site, that you're not responsible for that. They agree to certain user conduct standards on your site. So they can't leave nasty comments or spam comments on your site, or you have the right to remove them, you have the right to block them. So there's a lot of information that even if you just have an educational blog, you will want these disclaimers on there. And one thing I want to clarify here too is your reader doesn't have to go in here, correct? And click a button. Just you having this disclaimer on your site makes you protected. Correct. You have a website terms of use. Yeah. So you don't have to... The reader doesn't have to go in and agree to all these terms.

This is just on the site for people as they come on that they can click. Like she said at the beginning, this is usually in the footer of your website. And so they can click, like she said at the beginning, this is usually in the footer of your website. And so they can access it. And that I think that's a pretty important piece of it too, is that they have to be able to access it on every page. Is that correct? Yes. So it's, it's best if, I mean, I have seen it actually appear as a pop-up or at checkout. So if you have products, it's a good idea to have it at checkout if that's your only contract with them. Like with courses, sometimes people have a separate terms of enrollment that they'll check in order to purchase the course. Sometimes the terms of purchase are in

the terms of use. That's what I normally see. So for instance, on my website, if you buy a legal template, you have to affirmatively click, I accept the terms of use. So it is an option, but yes, having it on your footer, having it on every page, especially if you're blogging. I know there's a lot of pages with each blog post, have it just be a standing footer on your website. That's how we help our students in the Ultimate Blog Bootcamp. We tell them to put it in the footer like that. So that is great to know. Now, let's lead this into our next question.

So you have a template shop, essentially, that they can get the templates that they need for their blogs. What is the difference in using a template versus having an attorney write one up specifically for their website? an attorney write one up specifically for their website? So with a template, a template is a little, it's like a step up from, I would say it's several steps up from taking somebody else's privacy policy

and copy and paste it, which does nothing because the privacy policy is going to be very specific. It's going to tell your users and your purchasers how you specifically use their private data. And that could be very different from how your competitor processes their client data. So copying and pasting, not what you want to do. A template is going to give you options, like it'll be fill in the blank. So for instance, mine is GDPR compliant. There are options where you can say, we do or we do not

disclose personal information that you collect. And you have to choose like I do or do not do this. It'll give you choices like for how you securely store your data. It kind of gives you all the information you need, but you can input your distinctive company information. I would recommend having an attorney draft your privacy policy. If you're doing something more complicated, like you have an app or you're making millions of dollars in revenue a year, or you're processing large amounts of client data. So templates, I would say as long as they are drafted by attorneys, they're compliant with major privacy laws, like the major California privacy laws, the GDPR, and you feel that you have inputted your information correctly and accurately.

For the average online business who's selling on a smaller scale or who has a blog, I would say they're perfectly fine. But if you're operating at those higher levels, it's probably time to hire an attorney. Something I want to mention here too, and I'll say it, is you're going to probably want to hire an attorney or use an attorney's templates that is familiar with the online space. That would be something that I... I mean, I don't think you could just hire any attorney because I don't think all attorneys probably understands all the facets of blogging. And so I would definitely just look to one that is familiar with blogs and how they gain information and like GDPR and things like that.

That is one thing I would just as a coach recommend you to look for. So yes, Berkeley has templates. But if you were to decide to use something that wasn't Berkeley's, I mean, you're just going to want to make sure that wasn't Berkeley's, I mean, you're just going to want to make sure that they do have that history with working with bloggers and know exactly what bloggers need and how they need to be protected. And I would say having it be attorney-drafted. I've seen a lot of good template shops out there. And then I've seen a lot of non-lawyer template shops.

And I would say be wary of the non-lawyer-drafted legal templates. There's non-lawyer template shops. And I would say, be wary of the non-lawyer drafted legal templates. There's non-lawyer legal? There are. How is that even, how is that okay? You know, it violates the unauthorized practice of law, debatably. Oh my goodness. That's why we have always been like, we cannot tell you what to do. Like, we can tell you to go like, look, we can say, you can look at our privacy policies

to see what they include, but like, we cannot advise you at all because we're not attorneys. So that's just very interesting. Very interesting. Didn't realize that people were doing that. Okay. Learn something new every day. So there is a lot to think about here. But I think the thing that we want to encourage you is you are in charge of your business.

So this is going to feel a little bit scary to have to think about these different legal things. But that's why we have Berkeley here. That's why we want to talk about these things. We want you to know how important that they are. But we also want you to know that there are solutions to this. So if this is a place that you need to start, then you can start here and you can just take it one step at a time. And I know we purchased templates from Berkeley and it comes with like a video and instructions

to walk you through how to set this up. So it might feel a little scary at first, but you just have to take those first steps and make sure that you're thinking of everything that you need to do for your online business and taking it seriously and treating it like a business from day one. I think that's just so important. Because when I started my blog, all of this felt so scary to me and actually delayed, like it delayed the process of starting my blog. My mission in my company is to make it really easy. So I try to make it really easy to understand video tutorials with some of the ones that need it. Like the privacy policy is a little more complicated than the other contracts, but just so that you can fill it out in 20 minutes and knock it off your to-do list

and not worry about it again. Because nobody wants to be worried about the GDPR. Yeah. I am thinking about it. And I think you brought something up important there is this is not something you have to do repeatedly. So you get your privacy policy set, you get your disclaimer set, and then they can hang like that for quite a while. When would you recommend to somebody that they might need to get those re-evaluated? Or when would they need to potentially update them? Or do you recommend that at all? So when they have a new offering, I would say update them to include the details about purchasing their new offering or any new intellectual property

they acquire. So if they have new trademarks, you can add those in. Sometimes privacy laws change. So there was an update to the GDPR. There was another UK regulation that was updated after I launched my template shop. So when I hear about these updates, I automatically update my templates to include language to make them compliant with the new laws. And then I send those out to people so that they have those updated ones and and tell them what they need to update. But generally, if you have new offerings, if you change your location, if you change your company email, make any major updates and how you... If you change any of the information you collect, so on your privacy policy, if you were only collecting emails and you decided you were

going to collect credit card numbers, then you have to add that. Anytime you're changing the way you're doing business. But no, it's not something that you need to be changing all the time. I think I've changed mine twice in the last two years. And I have a quick question about... You mentioned collecting credit cards. So I would assume that's like if you're selling an ebook or a product or something like that. Now, if you were to use a platform like PayPal or Stripe or something to collect those payments, do you have to disclose something about that as well on your own site? So I usually do. You're still responsible if you're getting that information. But I usually do make a note if I'm using certain

payment processors, that they can look at their own privacy policies as well, just for full transparency. But ultimately, if you're getting sensitive data, you're still responsible. Okay, that's really, I think, important to know and to think about as you start going into some of these other areas as a blogger is just to really think through your different responsibilities. It shouldn't be anything that holds you back, but just making sure that you're transparent and covered in these situations so that if something were to happen, like you said, you would be protected. I guess one of my questions would be like, how would you know if there was a problem?

How would you get a letter in a problem? How would you get a letter in the mail? How is somebody going to reach out to you if they're like, say that they were, you know, impacted or that they were going to sue you or what, you know, what should you be looking for? Do you need to look out for, I know like sometimes you get spammy emails. How would you differentiate between what's real and what's not? Well, if you're being served with a lawsuit, you'll be served in person. So you'll know a processor will come to your business or home and you will definitely know if something is legit. But on your privacy policy, on your terms of use, you will have the email that you want people to reach you at to opt out of things, change their preferences. So it's a good idea to have the email that you want people to reach you at, to opt out of things, change their preferences.

So it's a good idea to have an email address that you check often, check the spam, all of that. And I wouldn't say that that's a common thing to happen. Is that right, Berkeley? I mean, I don't want you guys thinking that... I have never had a client get sued for educational content on their blog. Okay. So that's what I wanted to make sure that we said. Yeah. This truly is just honestly worst case scenario. And then you know that you're covered. You're going to spend a couple hundred bucks to get this figured out and on your blog, and then you can just have that peace of mind. So I just wanted to highlight that. This is not something that... I've never gotten anything. I don't think Jennifer has. No. I've had clients get demand letters for products or services that were sold and have a terms of use brought into it, brought into the argument. It hasn't gone

to trial or anything, but there's been threats of lawsuits and the terms of use has been a part of negotiation discussions. And it always goes better for the client when they do have a terms of use and it's written in their favor. So I think when we know better, we do better. And so we hope that we've given you just some steps forward that you can take today, especially if you're new or if you have not ever put a privacy policy on your blog. This is something that you're really going to want to consider. Berkeley does have the templates available in her shop.

And that's what we use. It really truly is a simplified way of getting that protection on your site. So Berkeley, would you like to tell people how they can connect with you? And also if you want to kind of share some of the different templates that you do have available on your site, because you do have more than privacy policies in terms of use.

So if we have somebody on here, who like for us, we're podcast hosts as well. So we have a podcast guest disclaimer, a contract that they sign. If you want to share any of the others that you think might be helpful for bloggers as well in your shop. Sure. a podcast guest disclaimer, a contract that they sign. If you want to share any of the others that you think might be helpful for bloggers as well in your shop. Sure. So I have a privacy policy, a website terms of use. I also have a bundle where you can save if you need both of them.

I have if you host a podcast, podcast guest release. If you are taking pictures of someone, If you are taking pictures of someone, I have a model release. I have customized client contracts for a lot of different creative types. So if you're a graphic designer or a web designer or a photographer or a social media manager, I have contracts kind of tailored towards your industry. And if you want to find me, my website is www.berkeleysweetapple.com. I'm on Instagram at berkeleysweetapple. And you can email me at info at berkeleysweetapple.com. Thank you so much for coming today and just sharing about this because while it isn't always fun, it is so important. And I know that you've made it very approachable for people and at least

given them a place that they can go to get more information. So thanks so much for sharing your expertise with our audience today. Of course, thank you for having me. Thanks. Thanks so much for tuning in today. If you'd like to continue the conversation about blogging with us,

please find us on Instagram at Spark Media Concepts. You can also sign up for our weekly newsletter where we share blogging tips and inspiration. You can sign up by finding the link in the show notes. For those of you who are ready for the next step and want to start your own blog, join the waitlist for the Ultimate Blog Bootcamp. The link to join the waitlist is also in the show notes. Go out and make today a great day.