The Ultimate Blog Podcast - 60. How To Use Pinterest to Grow Your Blog in 2023 with Kate Ahl

Episode Date: February 7, 2023

How can you use Pinterest to grow your blog in 2023? Today we welcome back our friend Kate Ahl, Pinterest guru and owner of Simple Pin Media to talk all about Pinterest. If you are interested in learning about the shifts Pinterest is making in 2023, this episode is for you!Thanks for listening! Connect with us on Instagram: @sparkmediaconcepts Check out the show notes (link below) for more information including links and resources mentioned in today's episode!You can join the Blog Depot for $9 a month using code: BLOGGER. Sign up here: https://courses.sparkmediaconcepts.com/the-blog-depotGet 20% off of Keysearch Starter Plan using this link and code: KSDISCJoin the waitlist for The Ultimate Blog Bootcamp, our online course and coaching that helps you build the blog that you have always dreamed of.SHOW NOTES: www.sparkmediaconcepts.com/episode60

Welcome to the Ultimate Blog Podcast with Amy Reinecke and Jennifer Draper. We're on a mission to empower women who want to start or grow their own blog. This podcast is for women who want to learn blogging basics and who crave inspiration and encouragement. Whether you're just getting started or have been a blogger for years, we're excited to welcome you into this space where we are passionate about creating community over competition. We are bloggers who want to encourage you to believe in your potential, step outside the norm, and step into a life where you create your own schedule, your own success, and your own story. Join us for weekly episodes as we navigate blogging

and work from home life, all while raising a family and having some serious fun along the way. all while raising a family and having some serious fun along the way. Today, we have our friend Kate All with us to talk all about Pinterest. And we could talk to Kate literally all day. We love having someone that we can go to and chat all things Pinterest. And so that's why we brought her on today. So Kate, welcome back to the Ultimate Blog Podcast. You were here last year and we are excited to talk to you again. Yeah, I'm excited to talk to you all again and help bring people up to speed on Pinterest 2023. Yeah. So first and foremost, Kate, let everybody know who you are,

what your background is, and a little bit about your business. Yeah. So I have an agency called Simple Pin Media. And it is now 9 years old, which is crazy. I just can't believe I've been doing it for 9 years. So that puts me in a position to see a lot of different things on Pinterest and a lot of different perspectives with the clients we work with and the students that we serve. So my job is really to break down all the things that people hear into a really

manageable plan that people feel like they can do and integrate into their business. And I feel so passionate that Pinterest is just an arm of your business, but it has to be understood to where it fits in your business. It's not an Instagram. It's very much in the search and discovery place in your business. So I want people to know that it's not like an either or with all the socials, but it's a both and. And so really leaning into teaching that to people in an effective way that helps them go, Oh, yeah, I can use Pinterest. I'm not overwhelmed by it. Yes, I think making it approachable is really important because it kind of feels like a beast, especially if you don't use it as a user. Then a lot of people who might be starting a blogger

wondering, Well, how do I even use this? Because I might not even be a Pinterest user myself. So that's somewhere that if you are a beginner user to Pinterest, I would go back to the episode that we had in 2022 with Kate, and we will include that in the show notes. And we go over in that episode, what a beginner blogger can do for Pinterest. And so that will be a really helpful episode for you to listen in on and get some great advice there from Kate that I think still holds true in 2023.

But let's talk more about 2023. And for those who have an established blog, what are some of the trends that we can expect to come in 2023 and to set up our blogs for success on Pinterest? Yeah, I think one of the big things to note about Pinterest is they are making a... They've been making it for a while, but now they're making a more sweeping shift to Ecommerce and serving Ecommerce. So those bloggers who do have a component of a digital or physical product

that they sell, this is going to be great for them. They hired a new CEO in July of 23, Bill Reddy. He comes from Google Commerce, background in PayPal and Venmo. And actually just yesterday on LinkedIn, I saw that he hired one of his former teammates from Google that worked in Ecommerce to be the chief commerce officer over at Pinterest. So we're seeing the writing on the wall that Pinterest is saying, we want to make people's searches not only great for content, which bloggers provide, but also for products. Because we know those two go hand in hand. That if somebody's searching for a birthday party for a five-year-old about trains, they might also want to see products that are associated with that. So expect shifts to be made to those integrations. They've already laid the groundwork with verified merchant program.

But we are definitely seeing that ramp up significantly. And also, idea pins will get links. That is a big one that bloggers have wanted for a very long time since they introduced idea pins because they didn't have links. So we don't know when that will be. My prediction is February, March. That's usually when they start to add new things. Some new accounts already have them, but they had them last year, which is how we kind of knew the writing was on the wall, that they were going to go towards this direction. And last, they've discontinued the Creator Rewards program, which definitely

benefited bloggers. And the IdeaPin links are a replacement for that. I think the IdeaPin getting links is going to be really popular with bloggers because we've been wanting that. Since it came out, it felt like this... Well, we were creating these IdeaPins and then hoping that people follow your profile, obviously, your Pinterest profile, and then find your website. But what we know is that when you take a consumer and you tell them that they have to jump through all of these different hoops, they're likely to fall off along the way. And one of the things I think that maybe Pinterest realized was that one of the biggest frustrations

that a pinner had was when you came to a pin with a dead link and it didn't go anywhere. So they put in the solution early on that was a visual search tool that you could hover over and find pins that were related that linked out. So then Pinterest takes and adds this new format that has the core frustration of a pinner with not going anywhere.

I imagine they got a lot of feedback from pinners saying, what are these things? Why don't they link? Where are they going? Because you do have a multi-generational use on this platform. You have from Gen Z to Boomer, right? And they all know Pinterest is a place I go to find ideas and I click away. You just disrupted that. If you are ready to start your blog, we have an exciting deal for you. You can join our beginner course, The Blog Depot, for only $9 the first month. The Blog Depot is for you if you are thinking about starting a blog, but you need more info,

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before jumping into the process. The Blog Depot is a course and membership community that will help you understand what you need to build a successful blog. You get access to the course and community forum immediately upon signup and also the opportunity to join us for a live monthly coaching call today. You can join the blog Depot for only $9 for your first month using the code blogger. If you are tired of sitting on the sidelines, join the blog depot today, but hurry because there is a limited number of spots at this $9 rate. The link to join us is in our show notes. We'll see you on the inside. That brings up a question that I have and that I'm always trying to think about as a blogger is, what click to or decorating ideas that they can go and see more about?

You know, what is there? I guess, how can we better serve them to make sure that we're providing the types of content that they want to see? Yeah, that's a great question. And I would say, yes, that's the thing that's been great about Pinterest is that the ecosystem of it has stayed the same. People still approach it with a question or an idea or they're curious about something. So they're always searching for a problem or a feature or a solution. Well, I think one of the things you... How you take that to the next level is you start searching on Pinterest what you talk about, what your brand covers first. Because then you can see,

oh, are people already searching that? And there's 2 other supplemental tools. The Trends tool, trends.pinterest.com, which got an overhaul in the back half of 22. And then we also have the Pinterest Predicts. Now, Pinterest Predicts is a pretty great tool. I was a little skeptical of it in the beginning because it's like,

all these things are going to trend, which of course you control the trends because you control the algorithm. But what we're seeing is that the keywords under these trends are things that you need to be paying attention to. And if I was a blogger and I was talking about DIY home decor

in like the bohemian chic space, I would go to this and I would see, is that covered anywhere in here? And if it is, what are the keywords that people are using? And make sure that's in my board, my board description and my pin description, because then I can capture what I already know Pinterest is showing to people. And then this is a bonus tip, but I would say the best way to know is to be your own consumer. Search the platform, look around keywords, act like you're searching for you. What are you putting in? What is coming up in your search? And do it on your phone. Don't do

it on desktop. I know for us as content creators, we're always on our desktop. And it's easy. Pinterest is the only platform besides YouTube that it's easy to create on desktop and stay there, but your people are not there. So you want to make sure that you're looking on your phone and search. Yeah, do 30-minute timer and search for you on Pinterest and see what comes up. You gave that recommendation last time to search on your phone. And I think that that is really great advice because we have to be our own consumer and see what are people finding when they're searching us. I think that is excellent advice and something that we're out here creating all this content. Well, why aren't

they finding it? Or what do they do? But that's really great advice to put yourself in their seat and see what they're seeing, see what they're actually finding and doing it. And can I add to that, actually, because I just thought of this as you were saying this, and it's something I haven't recommended before. But I think one of the biggest things that you can do as well is think about something you're searching for. So just recently, I've searched random things lately, but one of them is a trip to Portugal. So just recently, I've searched random things lately, but one of them is a trip to Portugal. My friend and I are hoping to go later in the year.

And we actually share a board. She's a personal user. She works in corporate. We share a private group board that nobody else can see. But it has been interesting to search and be that person in the seat to say, Is this serving me? When do I save a blog post when it's like 10 day trip through Portugal or our best wineries to visit in Portugal? Like what's connecting for me? Because now I can look at it through a consumer lens and go, oh yeah, this is really annoying. It's really annoying

when you have a full pop-up that you cannot get off your screen and you cannot find the X button. Like I will tell you on Pinterest that is my biggest frustration when going to blog posts is people haven't adjusted their pop-up to be optimized for mobile. And it's, I can't get to the content. You've given me a great Pinterest image.

I think you're going to solve my problem. And then it's like, I go and it's like, bam. And where's the X? I can't find it. Think about that. Yep. We share that with our students a lot. If you're going to have a pop-up, make sure it's serving you and make sure that there is like an easy way out. If you do it, we actually tell them to test it because it's not something that we generally recommend. But if somebody really wants to do it, then we say, just make sure you're testing it. See how many people are actually able to get to your homepage and if it's worth the amount of

email signups that you're getting from it. Yeah. Great question. That's a great tip. Yeah. I'd like to roll back to this idea of IdeaPens getting the links this year. I'm assuming that means they're doing well with the users of Pinterest. They like the IdeaPens. What is it that they like about the IdeaPens? What can we do to make sure that the IdeaPens are containing the types of things that people want to see? I know, obviously going out and looking and seeing what other IdeaPens you like,

but where do you even start? I guess I struggle because I'm like, I don't know why I'm watching this IdeaPen. I'm not sure what I'm benefiting from it. What benefit do the IdeaPins give that make them so popular? Yeah. There hasn't been a lot of data that Pinterest has released. So I tend to take more of the skeptic angle and say, I think this is more serving the platform by time spent on platform than the actual user. But there are certain formats that I think are beneficial. One is I've seen people do video, video for sure.

And we have a rhythm here at Simple Pin of we will create a reel. And it's no stickers, no video, and none of that. It's just raw. We download that. And then we upload that to Pinterest natively, then add a lot of those pieces. And what we're finding is that that just one slide with the video is actually doing pretty good. And I'm seeing that in the food space and in the travel space as well, even in the hair and beauty space. I don't know about you, but I get sucked into all those hair tutorials

and how they're like do their buns and their braids all amazing. I'm like, I don't think my hands can do that or hold that many things at the same time, but I'm still mesmerized by it. And I think those are what are really hooking people in. I don't know anymore. And I have to do a little more data on this,

but like if it doesn't have video, and it's just slides like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, I don't think that's getting as much engagement as if you use video. And Pinterest has told us, go video first. And probably a year ago, what people were testing was you had the three pin formats of standard video idea, right? But video still had a link. What we are now knowing is that video is going to get absorbed into idea pin because there's going to be a link. So now you can take what you were doing there and put it into an idea pin. And I think what we'll have by the end of the year is just like two formats

and then obviously Pinterest ads. So the best thing I can say is video first. See what you can repurpose, be very careful it's not like an in the moment, but it's very much a tip. And that's what's doing well with idea pins is if it's very much a connection of like, oh, I didn't think about that.

Or yeah, that's so cool. Yes, I'll do that. Or remember the tasty style videos on Facebook? Yeah. Those actually do pretty well within an idea pin too, because it's just dumping things into a bowl, which I don't think those ever died anyway. Right. People love, it's like so cathartic to watch. It's approachable. And it's approachable. Like you can picture yourself doing it. Exactly. Same thing with like hair tutorials or whatever. Like you can picture yourself doing it. Exactly. Same thing with hair tutorials or whatever. You can picture

yourself doing that or organization. I got sucked into watching something last night. It was a reel. And it was... I can't even imagine the amount of time that it took them to do this. But it was a large bookshelf. And it was placing each book on the bookshelf. And it was, I mean, out and it had to have taken hours to create that content. But what do you know? I watched that thing twice. Oh yeah. Cause I was mesmerized. Cause you were like, I know this took you 10 hours and I just thought it in 30 seconds. And I'm going to go ahead and give you two views for that. It's totally well. And I, exactly. I think that is to that point. Like we know on Instagram, like reels kind of consume our feed, right? Whereas I think on Pinterest, it has to do with

if you're interested in it, because we have multiple formats, right? Like Instagram has said, like, we want you to do this format and creators go, okay, I'm going to do this format. Where on Pinterest, you have multiple layers of what you can do and put on Pinterest. You can have diversification, right? And you don't know if somebody's going to watch an idea pin or they're going to stay with standard pins because that's dictated by their habit. Every smart feed is different based on what they engage with. So that's why you really have to get to know your audience. Because we see from our students and our clients, idea pins might perform great for somebody. And they might have an audience who's super interested in the idea pins that they put out. And then another client does that. And it bombs. Their standard pins win

9 times out of 10. And so that is a big part of what you have to test with Pinterest and what can feel overwhelming, right? Because at least on Instagram, like every other week, they're telling you what to do. On Pinterest, there isn't that. I think it just brings you back to the importance as a blogger of testing everything and tracking the data, which doesn't always sound like a lot of fun, but you don't know what's going to do the best. I always go back to an example that something I tested years ago with 2 different pens. So my blog is slow cooker recipes. So I tested pens like one image of the plated recipe and one image in the slow cooker and ran

those together and, you know, in a very structured way so that I could see how they were performing. And I was surprised to find that the picture in the slow cooker blew it out of the water, but it became clear that that's what people could visualize the most because it's such a visual platform. So is there like an easy way to track how your pins are doing on Pinterest? Are their analytics getting better and improving? Is that the best way to go back and keep track of what you've done? Yeah, absolutely. Pinterest analytics have far and away improved for what they were. Now you can drill down to standard pin, idea pin, video pin performance, boards. They do have 9

points of metrics. So you want to be looking at three specifically outbound clicks, saves, and you can take into consideration impressions. We don't look at the monthly viewer number on the profile. I don't even know what it collects or what it means. So just ignore it. So you want to look at those to see like, and now they give us an option of looking at pins you pin within the last 30 days. Now that's important because before we would only have things that would be like lifetime and we would see old and people are like, Oh my gosh, my old pins are still at the top. They're still number one. I think it's important to remember that new things get old. That's how it works on Pinterest. And then you get that good background kind of traffic coming in.

But A-B testing images, you can do by just looking at Pinterest Analytics. You can attach a UTM code using Google's tracker. We have done that in the past as well. You don't want to go... We've gone too crazy with UTMs. And then we're like, that's too much data. You just want to take a couple control tests

by saying pin A, pin B, pin on the same day, pin to the same board because it holds the same keyword data, and then track it for 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, 9 months. Because sometimes pins take off 6 to 9 months later. So you just want to know that Pinterest is an investment for the long haul. It is not a quick turnaround. It is not a feel-good platform. There's no dopamine hits there. You're looking at it going, Okay, I'm here because Pinterest, out of all the socials, if we're going to lump it in there,

is the best traffic driver. And I can say that with 100% confidence. Instagram's not driving your traffic. Pinterest in the background is driving your traffic. Even if you have millions of followers sometimes, that's a crazy thing. Is that it's really hard to move people out of the Instagram ecosystem.

It's very easy to move people out of the Pinterest ecosystem. So you just... Again, it's not an either or. It's a both and because they complement each other. I love that you said that. What you just said is so important or it's a both and because they complement each other. I love that you said that. What you just said is so important because a couple of things that you said there that I liked.

One is that it is a long game. And so it requires a lot of patience as does blogging in general. This job takes patience. It is not something that you get a dopamine hit off right away at all. And you can kind of, I think, do things too quickly. So you can say, well, this isn't working and then shift way too quickly.

And so thank you for just the reiteration that that does take time to build that. The second thing I liked that you said was that you have two different kinds of users who are coming on Instagram and you're coming on Pinterest. Most users, when they come on Instagram, they want to be on Instagram. They want to be entertained. They want to learn something kind of quickly. But the person who's coming on Pinterest is trying to really find a solution to something. And you said something in one of your podcast episodes that I loved. A lot of people who come on Pinterest are dreamers and they want to do something with it. So their intent is to go and search for more information surrounding what you're talking about. And they are seeking that out actively. On Instagram, we're just kind of consuming content because we're passing the time.

And they might not actually want to be learning any more about it. It just might be like happenstance that they do that. But Pinterest users, I believe really are searching. Like I'm trying, I need a solution to this problem and I need to go to the place that's going to give me that solution. So yeah, I think, I think I totally agree with you. Yeah. They're future focused. Like they're not present focused and Instagram. I, I love Instagram. Like if there's something I gotta put my gates around for time, it's Instagram, right? Cause you can numb out and you keep going

and all these things. Whereas Pinterest, you do become so focused on what you're looking for. You can go down a black hole and you look at more things, but the intent is never a present focus to follow somebody or any of that. It's very much, I'm about ready to... I'm not about ready to do this, but let's assume I'm going to redo my kitchen. I'm going to begin planning 6 to 9 months in advance because if I

have the ability to hire a designer or have the, with a contractor to pull up my phone and say, I want to do this. And your contractor's like, love it because it's going to cost you more money. You know, contractors love Pinterest. It's a jackpot. And I think hairdressers hate Pinterest. Oh, totally. They're like, oh, I don't think I can do that. That's a funny thing right there. But you see that it's really never in the moment. And I think that's why it's very hard what you just said. When you start as a content creator, you are slowly building bricks on your pathway. And it's hard work because you

don't know what it's going to result in. And you don't know who's going to find you. That's very much the same with Pinterest. You don't know who's going to find in and you don't know who's going to find you. That's very much the same with Pinterest. You don't know who's going to find you. You don't know who's going to connect with you, but it's trusting the process. And I know I've hated that phrase before. I'm like, oh, I don't want to trust the process. I just want it to work because something on Instagram makes me feel like it's working. But it's not really resulting in anything besides somebody liking it and half

those people already know anyway, and they like me as my friend. So there's that. I love it. You're so right. It's ridiculous. It's what it is. And I think we just have to really speak truth into that. So because if you're listening to this episode, then it's likely that you want to grow your blog. That is the whole intent. That is the whole point of this episode is, how can I use Pinterest in 2023 to grow my blog? And we're telling you exactly what you need to do. You need to focus on what your consumer wants, what that consumer is actually looking for,

and then how can you meet that need, essentially. And know that it's going to take time. And then how can you meet that need essentially and know that it's going to take time? And so I do think that tracking, like we were talking about, makes a lot of sense. And if you're like me, that is something that feels kind of overwhelming. That's why I have a Jennifer is because she likes that stuff and she can tell me how to do it. So Jennifer, you can probably tune in with this a little bit too. What are some easy ways? Like let's say somebody has never tracked at all.

What would be the one thing that you could recommend for them? Like, okay, in 2023 alone, I just want to start seeing where I'm at in regards to Pinterest. Like where is this? Like how are people coming and all of that? How are my pins performing? What is one very simple way that a person can do that? Well, and Jennifer, I'll let you jump in on this, but I think one of the biggest things, and this is not a tangent, but it'll help me put... I'm putting myself in the seat of a person listening. So I started a second business under my name. It's like agency coaching. That helped me go back to... I have a team now. I can ask people to do stuff. But with

that, I don't have a team. It's me. And I think one of the things that I understand from a content creator's perspective is you have to find your voice. It feels a little bit silly in the beginning to talk to the void and you're not getting any feedback or any of these things. But what I knew right away is that I had to find my voice, but as I was finding it, those things had to go onto Pinterest. And so if I was going to track anything, it was going to be followers, clicks, and saves because those gave me some indicators of awareness

on Pinterest of what I was doing. And that, I will say it, it got hard for a little bit in the beginning because I couldn't find my voice a little bit because I was doing a podcast and I was doing a blog post with that. I did stop doing Pinterest for a little bit because I just felt like it was a little bit overwhelming because I was like Instagram and Pinterest and SEO and all these things. So I dialed it back to one thing. And I said, I'm going to find my voice as a content creator. I'm going to find Kate All's voice as an agency coach. And that came to where now I'm like, okay, now I can fold Pinterest back in because I didn't

want to create a lot of friction. So I just want to say that as like, I get that. It's hard work as a content creator. And I believe so powerfully in content creation. I think anybody who does not add that arm to their business, whether you're eCommerce or whether you're a full-time content creator... I heard somebody call them content entrepreneurs. Absolutely. Because people still want to hear story, whatever length it's going to be, whatever it is. But you have to find the voice that people connect with. So I say all that to say like tracking, yes, it's important, but know that if you hit a friction point, you just pause. That's okay too, because you can go back and gather the data from when you paused. Yeah. And I think that when people are feeling overwhelmed

with even just getting started with Pinterest, the thing I like to remind people that they don't always think about is just make your content pinnable. It's not that you have to have a pinning strategy from day one. Include pinnable images in your posts and start there. So maybe you just start really simple. You take your content and you think, what are two different ways that I can create a pin image for this post. I make sure that I have a plugin on my blog that makes it easily shareable. And then I can just look and see how people are using that on Pinterest. I don't even have to have some big fancy strategy myself. I can just start here simply looking at how people are using what I'm already giving them

on my blog and sharing it on Pinterest and looking to see how those pins are performing before I even go down some rabbit hole of trying to figure out what to do. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's easy to... Well, I'll say for me, I am terrible at Pinterest images. I just am. And so I need templates. And so when our designer created like a 10 pack of them for me, so I just kind of drag and drop some things in there. Oh, that's what we recommend too. Too much time.

Oh, I used to like make a new fancy pin for every single post. And Jennifer was like, yeah, you're wasting a ton of time. I'm like, but look how pretty it is. She's like, it's so pretty. Nobody cares that it matches your food. But then you don't know what's performing well either because none of them are consistent. You need like some consistency there. Yeah, I agree.

Yeah. So I think that's really good advice. So speaking of pins, is it important that we're pinning other people's content? Or is it okay to just pin our own content? And let's say that... And this might be a testing thing. But let's say that you can pin 2 pins a day. Is it better to pin 2 pins a day of your own content? Or 20 pins a day that 2 are yours and 18 are somebody else's? Yeah. 2 are yours. 100%. Hands down. Okay. Because Pinterest wants to see consistency. They don't really care about the number. And we only recommend more pins per day if you have

enough content to absorb that. But remember, you have another format called Idea Pins. So you can take one piece of content, and you can do two images, which gives you those two pins and then one Idea Pin. So now you have three ways to connect with people on the platform. So yeah, three ways to connect with people on the platform. So yeah, no other people's content. We've only found that works if you're in collaboration with somebody else, like, you know, they share the same type of platform. But again, you have to remember too, that like people don't see things right away. Right. So like whatever's in the smart feed, it's based on interest and followers and not chronological. So it doesn't always matter. So you just need to know, like, if I'm going to share your stuff about content

creation, and I talk about content creation, it's because I like you guys. It's not so much an algorithmic benefit. Got it. Okay, so that has definitely shifted over the years. Yeah. So I think that's, I think that's really important just to make note of is that you can do your own thing on Pinterest. Yes, 100%. And it's freeing, right? I don't have to think of other content to pin. You can inflate your numbers by pinning a bunch of other people's stuff. We do know that's a strategy that other people have tried doing where there's pinners on Pinterest who are just... They're not businesses, right? And they love pins. They're a power pinner. They're on there 3-4 times a day, right? And they're pinning other people's stuff. These people tend to have inflated numbers or higher followers, but they're not a

content creator. They're just like a content house, right? Essentially. So you could look at them and say like, Oh my gosh, they have 100,000 followers and like 1 million views. Not one of those views is going to a website that they own because they000 followers and like a 1 million views. Not one of those views is going to a website that they own because they don't even own a website. So there is a strategy out there that talks about inflating that monthly viewer number by pinning other people's content. But I wouldn't do it. I mean, it doesn't make your content get seen. Okay. Let's talk about something that you just said. Are followers important on Pinterest? I think they're important in a couple of ways. If you're a content creator who's doing any type of

sponsored content, if you are working with a brand who cares about the follower number, I think it's important. But I would say for a regular... For me as a business-to-business person as well, I rarely even look at that. In fact, I opened it up right when we started. I was like, Oh, I almost have like 60,000 followers. That doesn't mean anything to me also because we evaluate traffic. And in 2022, our traffic from Pinterest was cut in half because we did have idea pins. So something like idea pins without links made more of an impact, even though my followers grew. So that's just something to consider. Yeah. It's just one metric. Okay. Yeah.

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we have, and they're maybe thinking about incorporating this Pinterest strategy, are there any industries that do better on Pinterest or any that shouldn't bother? I mean, is it beneficial across the board? Do you think for bloggers to utilize Pinterest and maybe think about at least making their content shareable on Pinterest and maybe starting to implement a strategy? Yeah. I think when you talk about content, people go to Pinterest and they are primed to read. So they're ready to consume any type of content. Now, if you came to me and you're like, I talk about financial investing and I target 6-year-old men, probably not your place, right? But in the top five, we're gonna have like recipes and food,

DIY, home decor, weddings and beauty and fashion, right? So those, they're always gonna shine. But there's some ones that aren't gonna get as much traffic, but they're definitely gonna bring you more traffic than say an Instagram and a TikTok would, right? So you just wanna be thinking, are people actually searching for my type of content already? If you, you know, with content creators too,

the great thing is, is people can find you anywhere. The only time I really recommend that people don't use Pinterest is if they're a local business or they're a brick and mortar. Because that's when you really have to have like the Google and the Yelp and the Instagram to bring awareness. Whereas Pinterest is global, right? So sometimes people in another country are finding your

content, which is also the great thing, right? It's the great place next to Google that people surface your blog posts, which is awesome. So look around, look and see, and maybe prepare yourself if you are in those smaller industries, not to compare yourself to a bigger industry, which can be easy to do in a Facebook group, especially because we hear about like the food bloggers of the world or the DIY or the home decor, and they're just crushing it, right? With these huge numbers, but your numbers matter. And they equal somebody coming to your website who's interested to read more or learn more. And Pinterest users are cold, right? So they're

not ready to warm up to you super fast. So I would say, also, again, if you target the male audience, Pinterest has said, I feel like it's like five years running. Men are our fastest growing demographic on Pinterest. Well, if that's the case, they should be equal with women by now because we've heard it every single year. It's not, right? So just evaluate too that if that's your target, something like Twitter might be a little bit better. Or LinkedIn.

Or LinkedIn, yes. My husband has never opened the Pinterest app, but he is on LinkedIn and Twitter every day. I am starting to be on LinkedIn too. And it's every day. It's kind of fascinating to see what's out there. And you're right. It was a lot of dudes. I'm like, okay, this is different. It's not Instagram. No. Yeah. We've learned a little bit about that. We had a podcast episode with Brittany Miller, who talks about using LinkedIn. And it is really, it feels like that other platform that you need to learn to use now, for sure. But I do think it is another platform, you know, you can just gain exposure. And I think with any, with any platform, you have to look at it and ask yourself, is this

worth my time in the present day and in the long run? Because there's no way that we can do all platforms. You just can't. No. We don't have that kind of time to do every platform well. What we always teach is that your blog needs to be your home base. We believe Pinterest is something that most bloggers who come on should utilize as well. And then pick one other thing.

So whether that's Instagram or Facebook or TikTok. You have to think about it. I have to think about TikTok because I'm not on it. I'm not either. Okay. So here's an interesting thing that we did that might help people, content creators who are a little more seasoned. I'll say if you're like 2 years in, and you've been trying to cast a wide net with social. At the end of the year, we run our numbers of all social referrals in Google Analytics. And we compare it year over year. And we say, what are we still going to invest in that's worth our time? And even now, more so, I'm getting to that point of less is more. And here's a crazy thing is we invested in YouTube for like five months, right? At the back half of 22. And when we hit a budget crunch, we pulled back on

our investment there. We're like, Oh, it's kind of crazy. When we compared Instagram, which we've been grinding at, you know, everybody hits the grind. Oh, yeah. Really hardcore for like four years to get to this point in the five months of YouTube had the same amount of clicks in a year of heavy investment into Instagram. And we went pump the brakes. We're switching. We're reinvesting back into YouTube. Pinterest was our number one. So it's like we kept that. And then we went, YouTube's going to be the second. And Instagram is going to be a support. And now I spend almost every day on LinkedIn because I want that to be high up there too.

But let your data numbers really guide you. Because in December, I was freaking out about budget and cutting everything under the sun. And then when I finally went back, I was like, oh, YouTube actually does fulfill my content goals. And so I want to bring that back in and use it. So I tell everybody, go with your data because your gut is awesome.

That's not telling you the truth. Yeah. And you can see all of that as long as you have Google Analytics installed on your blog, which hopefully you do. And then you can go and look at that because I think that that is going to be really important to know. And then you can make a very solid plan for yourself as you go forward, instead of just having it be all about emotion.

If you feel like I'm not growing or I'm not doing what I do, right? And then you just pull back based on emotion, then you might not honestly be making the best business decision for yourself. But numbers don't lie. But with that said too, especially in regards to Pinterest, just keep at it because it is a long game. It is not something you're going to succeed in, in the first six months, probably. I mean, it just takes time. It does take time. And I will tell you, after nine years in this business, after looking at... I don't even know how many clients we've worked with. I think at this point, I'm kind of like making up the number, but it's over a thousand. I know that looking at client analytics, Pinterest is always one or two vying with Google. Always.

Like there's rarely a case that that happens. So if you see this in all content creators and you know that it's high up there, then you know it's worth the investment. And don't let anyone discourage you who has been a seasoned content creator because you will hear from them. Pinterest is not the same. Pinterest has gone downhill, blah, blah, blah. Listen, you don't know where your stuff is going to land there. So keep investing in it. Yep. I would agree. I think both of ours

goes back between Google and Pinterest. Yeah. And we've really just made it a goal this year to really focus on those. We call it going back to the basics, avoiding the shiny objects, and just having a good solid plan to keep trying it, keep testing it, and just keep providing the value and utilizing that. I mean, that's the beauty of Pinterest. You're just utilizing content that you already have. So why not try? Yeah. And it's a really easy... I hear the common phrase I get lately. It's shifted over the years. The common phrase is, I don't know where to start. It feels so overwhelming. And that's why I always recommend that. Just start by using it. And then that frames up how to see yourself.

Like, and we all use Instagram, so we can all frame up what we like and what we don't like. Do that same thing with Pinterest and it'll come to you. Yeah, this was great. Do you have any last parting words that you would like to share with anybody, Kate? I do want to say this. Pinterest is very, very friendly to digital products, which I think is a very good match for content creators.

It's like, you're already creating content. You can put that into a digital product. So we created our own Shopify store this last year because we wanted to do all the testing too. We wanted to see and experience what it was like for an e-commerce owner and became a verified merchant. So Pinterest is the only platform that allows you to promote

digital products. So you can't on Instagram or Facebook, they want physical products, right? So just know that if you get to this place where you start creating a couple PDFs, or you're doing like meal plans or things like that, Pinterest is very friendly to that. And some of those integrations can be done manually even without needing Shopify or WooCommerce. But I have thoroughly enjoyed our Shopify store and putting our digital products on Pinterest. If you want to see what we're doing with that, go to Pinterest.com slash Simple Pin Media. And you'll see a blue checkmark that means verified merchant program, shop listings, what they look like. And then you can even see click on created and you can see how we're using our Instagram reels to at least get some inspiration as to what you would do.

But when you have a shop tab, it defaults to your shop tab, which is kind of cool. Yeah, that is. It's just another way that bloggers can generate revenue, which is something that we talk about all the time, that you don't have to just generate revenue by being on an ad network, that there are lots of ways that bloggers can bring money in. Digital products is a really great way to do that. So thanks for bringing that up. And we will check that out too. So thanks so much for coming today.

We always appreciate picking your brain and asking you all these things about Pinterest and just being in your presence because you are in a very similar business. And we always love the time we get to spend together. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Thanks so much for tuning in today. If you'd like to continue the conversation about blogging with us, please find us on Instagram at Spark Media Concepts. You can also sign up for our weekly newsletter where we share blogging tips and inspiration. You can sign up by finding the link in the show notes. For those of you who are ready for the next step and want to start

your own blog, join the waitlist for the Ultimate Blog Bootcamp. The link to join the waitlist is also in the show notes. Go out and make today a great day.