The Ultimate Blog Podcast - 98. Downshifting from Corporate Career to Full-Time Blogger with Zhen Zhou

Episode Date: October 31, 2023

We are chatting with Zhen Zou from Greedy Girl Gourmet, as she shares about how she downshifted from corporate career to full-time blogger. Zhen’s journey from the corporate world to blogging is a story of passion, persistence, and the power of community. It’s never too late to pursue your passion and success with blogging may not come quickly, but with hard work and the right mindset, it is achievable. She even shares some tips for you if you are looking to transition to full-time blogging. We hope that Zhen’s story inspires you. Share a key takeaway from today’s episode with us on Instagram @sparkmediaconcepts!Check out Cooking with Keywords  HERE!  Use code UBP10 for 10% off!Get 20% off of Keysearch Starter Plan using this link and code: KSDISCCheck out the show notes (link below) for more information including links and resources mentioned in today's episode!SHOW NOTES: www.sparkmediaconcepts.com/episode98

Welcome to the Ultimate Blog Podcast with Amy Reinecke and Jennifer Draper. We're on a mission to empower women who want to start or grow their own blog. This podcast is for women who want to learn blogging basics and who crave inspiration and encouragement. Whether you're just getting started or have been a blogger for years, we're excited to welcome you into this space where we are passionate about creating community over competition. We are bloggers who want to encourage you to believe in your potential, step outside the norm and step into a life where you create your own schedule, your own success and your own story. Join us for weekly episodes as we navigate blogging

and work from home life all while raising a family and having some serious fun along the way. all while raising a family and having some serious fun along the way. I know many of you listening to the podcast are on your own blogging journey. And I always think it's really inspiring when we can talk to people who are in this industry, who have had these amazing stories and pursuing blogging and how they did it, how they went about it. And I'm really excited to share Zinzo with you today, who left the corporate world to pursue blogging. And I think that there's probably people listening today who are in the corporate world who have had that exact same dream. And we're excited just to share Zinzo with you to be able to give a roadmap of what

she did and how she did it. So welcome to the Ultimate Blog Podcast, Jen. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Yeah. So let's just start at the beginning. You started in corporate. And then when did you decide that that wasn't something that you wanted to do any longer,

but you wanted to pursue this career in blogging? Okay. So my path was actually like really long and meandering. So I'm going to try and cut it down to the milestones. If not, I think the listeners might get a bit bored. But I think I always knew that I wasn't a corporate person and I always wanted to start my own business. But back then I thought it was like a Fortune 500 business, not a blogging business.

Yeah. And the idea was to go and know, to go and do some corporate work and get experience before starting my own business. But then after experiencing corporate life, I realized, you know, I don't like corporate life. So why would I want to start a fortune 500 business if I had, even if I had the capability. And then I guess I did the MBA because I was trying to see if there was, so the MBA is the masters of business administration for those not familiar with the term, you know, it was kind of like a last ditch effort to find something in the corporate world that could fit me. Because, you know, getting an MBA really exposes you to more types of jobs and also allowed me to live overseas, which was my dream.

So before the MBA, I worked for the Government Economic Development Board. And then I was headhunted by the agency that we worked with. So I joined a branding agency called Interbrand. And they do branding for a lot of big companies like BMW, you know, and firms like that. And then after that, I left and I did my own thing for a while. And then I went to the MBA. And then a few years later, we are here. So you can see what I mean about a very, very long journey. Yeah. So when did that kind of, I don't know the feelings that you were feeling, but when did that kind of curiosity come to play about blogging? Or how did that enter the story? So this is quite embarrassing, but I think when blogging first became a thing

like 20 years ago or something, my cousin actually said I should get blogging. I was saying, why on earth would I want to do that? And yet here we are. Back in the day, blogging was so different and it was more like a diary for people. Yes. And there are some Singaporeans who've been very successful with this diary sharing format of blogging,

but that's not for me because I really am not interested in being an influencer. And I don't think I have the capability of being an influencer because I don't think I'm really that interesting to people. And so what I like about food blogging

and travel blogging is that, you know that you're not trying to become a celebrity, yet you can still make a good living doing it, if that makes sense. Yeah. I think that our stories are a little bit similar because I went to school and I got my master's degree in accounting. I also worked in business, specifically doing income taxes for corporations and things like that. And I think that business experience is so valuable. But I also had a dream of someday starting my own business. But when I went to college, there was no such thing as blogging. This wasn't something you could do. So always in the back of my mind was what kind of business could I start? And I came across

food blogging randomly by finding another blogger who was sharing about her business that she had created and how she quit her job to create this food blog that could support her and her family. And I was like, wow, I had no idea. And I think this might actually be the business for me. Did you have a similar experience? Did you know when you got into blogging that it could be a business? So basically, I told you I always wanted to start a business. So I've actually tried several things before this. And then one thing I used to do as a kid was sell my own handmade jewelry. But I always knew that this is not going to be a very profitable career because I'm not a factory and I don't want to be a factory. So then one day I thought, you know what, I should try to have the designs on a blog because that way you can get more eyeballs on it and scale it up.

So I actually started my first blog was a DIY blog where I would share like tutorials. But at that time, I didn't know anything about keyword research. And back in the day, I think it was all about going viral. So people, you know, my concept was you get picked up by someone and I did get picked up by BuzzFeed, but it didn't really help my blog that much. I mean, it didn't help my blog in terms of, you know, making it a full-time income. And so then after meandering for a while, and I, you know, and I think it was also the kind of posts I was doing, like how to make this pair of Prada earrings, which was so specific, no one's actually really searching for it. So then after

that, I closed the DIY blog. And then at that time, I think there was some thought that, you know, maybe blogging is there because it's not now all about social media and Instagram and whatnot. So I was, you know, dithering around. And then I did start an Instagram account. But then looking back, I realized, I don't know what I was doing. Because every time people would approach me with opportunities, like I was asked to be on several television shows, I would say no, because I don't want to be in the public eye. So I'm not quite sure how I thought I could actually make money doing something when I say no to all the opportunities. And usually, I actually did get approached by the local Asian youth network so it's kind of like the

CNN of Asia and I also said no to that so in future I'm not going to say no if anyone listens to this and asks me on the TV show I will be there I love it because one thing I've learned from business school that I think translates to blogging is that you have to make yourself uncomfortable and those are the situations that make you grow and your business grow you know it's very easy to take the easy way out when you're your own boss because no one's forcing you to do what you don't like. Oh, totally. That's such great advice. And I think that blogging can get a little uncomfortable because you're going to be put in situations sometimes that stretches your comfort zone. It's putting yourself out there, whether you're sharing about

food or travel or a specific journey that you've been on or a passion of yours. You're still putting yourself out there because you are essentially your business. And it's your heart and soul that you're putting out there. And so for somebody like you who doesn't really want to be in the public eye, per se, how has that been for you? How has that journey looked for you to kind of go from, you know, being somebody who's in that corporate world then to

coming out on your own, starting your own blog? What like mindset shifts have had to come into play here to allow you to do this kind of career? Yeah, so I'm very private, which, as you said, can be a bit of a conundrum when you are doing blogging. But I think I'm quite lucky, or maybe I've been quite deliberate in my choice of full blogging in that it's quite structured in which areas you would share. So you're putting yourself out there by putting a recipe, and you might get criticized for your recipe. But generally, because of the way Google and SEO works now, we're not encouraged to share our life story.

So you don't really have to share too much personal details. So that was quite easy. But where I've really stretched myself was reaching out to people like you to be on the podcast so that I can get the link, so that Google will think more highly of my website. So that has been a huge challenge for me. And also putting that photo of myself on the blog. I didn't have it for ages, but then I did an audit and it was highly recommended. And so that paid so much for the audit.

I have to take the advice and so I put it up there. I love that you're sharing things that people do honestly struggle with. We have a course, The Ultimate Blog Bootcamp, and we have had students who have really been like, I don't want to put my picture on the blog. I don't want to do that. I think that that's very brave of you to normalize that, to be honest. You don't want that to be, you don't want the blog to be about you. You want it to be about the things that you're creating. But I'm glad that you're brave and you allowed people

to have a little bit of a connection there with who you are, even if you are talking about something that isn't directly related to you, like food and things like that. And it does take some bravery, I think, to put yourself out there in some of those ways.

And so I'm proud of you. Oh, thank you. Well, I didn't want to, but I didn't want to return to a corporate job those ways. And so I'm proud of you. Oh, thank you. Well, you know, I didn't want to, but I didn't want to return to a corporate job even more. So that was the impetus. It's a good motivator there. Yes. You left corporate, so you kind of know how it feels like.

Yeah, I have the exact same feelings. Like I will do whatever it takes to make this successful because I, while there were so many things I can appreciate about that world, there's so many more that I appreciate about being able to be my own boss and run my own business. I mean, to be honest, I can only think of like two things that I appreciate about corporate work. One is the nice paycheck. Yeah.

You know, job security. And you know, the colleagues. Yeah. Yeah. And I was struggling to think of nice things to say about corporate work. It is such a big shift. And now we're struggling to think of nice things to say about corporate work. It is such a big shift. And you went from all the things that you were doing in the corporate world to now you're making recipes.

You have a food blog. And tell us a little bit about that adjustment. What does your day look like now? And did you bring over some of your working styles, your habits from the corporate world? Or is this like, hey, I can do whatever I want now. And so this is what my days look like. So I think the biggest adjustment would be something you didn't touch on,

which is the downshifting of your lifestyle. I think no matter how much you're prepared for that, I mean, inflation has been so crazy in the last decade that there's no way you can really be prepared for it. So to anyone who wants a downshift, I totally support people going after their dream, but do make sure you are very, very, very financially comfortable before you do that. Because something unexpected is very likely to come up and, you know, give you a nice surprise. And then regarding my day,

I guess it's similar, but different. The main difference is I love what I do now. The similar thing is that i work very hard at both jobs so actually before this interview you know i thought you know i i did say downstream thing but i better check what that term really really means so according to cambridge it says leaving a job that is well paid and difficult in order to do something that gives you more time and satisfaction and something about business time sorry i can't really read my own handwriting but i think the key thing is that know what, the corporate job isn't more difficult than what you're doing now. And so it's not really a downshifting of skills. It's really a downshifting

of lifestyle that you're choosing to give up high-flying job and going after a simpler way of living. But you have to do it equally hard, sometimes more hard things. Because in the corporate world, there's a very set path. You have a boss, your boss tells you what to do, and you get it done. In blogging, no one tells you what to do. You have to kind of figure out what it is you need to do. And so I think that's the main difference between the two roles. Yeah. Did you quit your full-time job when you started your blog or was there kind of a transition period where you did both? So I quit my full-time job to actually travel around the world, taking a gap year and then to start a gap year agency. Cause back then there wasn't really this thing concept in Singapore. And I thought, you know what, if I want to start a gap year agency, I think I should have experience

doing it. And also I just really wanted to travel and leave my job. And also Singaporeans are quite practical. So I don't think a lot of parents would be like, you know, here you can just go travel and not go to school. It's more like here you can go travel and you have to do something like take on an internship in another country or volunteer somewhere, something that looks good on your resume.

So I thought I could help facilitate that. But then my father got sick. So the traveling never happened and the gap year never happened. So then after I sorted my family stuff out, then I went for the MBA. And then after the MBA, I started a small business. So remember how I mentioned that I made handmade jewelry?

And so when I did that, I realized there's so many small makers out there all wanting to sell their own goods and we all hate the selling part. So I thought, no, I should be that platform that helps them sell. So the concept was that I rent the shop, I divide the shop up into bits, and then I rent parts of the shop out to the makers. And obviously it's curated. So it's not like anyone can just come and rent the place there, but you have to have good enough work so that it feels more like a gallery. And then I do the promotion, the sales and everything, and the makers just make, which is what they like to do.

And obviously I know there's more potential online, but people who like to make, we like the physical experience. So I really wanted to have a shop and eventually have the online space. And I did do a couple of pop-ups in London. The first one was really good. And then the economy was not so good after that. So then I thought that, and then with Brexit, I was thinking that, you know, I'm not very confident of setting up a shop in this economy, especially since the rent agreement in London is for like five to 10 years. So I decided not to do it. Yeah. So I didn't do that, which I think was a good move with COVID and everything and the shop not even being able to open I started focusing on my blog and I say that because I probably had a blog quite a bit before I actually started focusing on it I mean

it was just existing but I paid so little attention to it that I didn't even realize I started it on the wrong platform so you know we're supposed to use self-hosted, but I actually used paid hosted by WordPress because they now have this intermediate offering, which I hadn't realized at the time. So yeah. If you're a blogger who's looking to increase your organic search traffic using keyword research, we have an excellent resource that we are really excited to share with you. If you struggle to find the right keywords, maybe you're unsure of your rankings, or you're just plain running out of ideas. What if I told you that you can learn how to find the right keyword that will rank competitively on Google? Aleka Shunk is the

keyword research guru and we highly recommend her courses if you are ready to do a deep dive into keyword research. She has two courses that we'd recommend to start. Cooking with Keywords is for food bloggers, and Blogging with Keywords was created for others who aren't in the recipe niche. This is not a beginner course, but if you are ready to tackle keyword research, this is the best bang for your buck. To learn more about Aleka's keyword courses, click the link in our show notes and become a keyword research guru. So what I'm hearing from you really is that you're driven to find a way to earn a living that you enjoy. And I think that that is true for so many bloggers. And to do something creative.

Yes. No, I totally agree with you. And I think that some of us don't even realize that that's what we're looking for. When we just kind of like check off the boxes, like we graduate from high school, and then we go to college, and then we're supposed to go get a job, and we're supposed to have a boss and all those things. We don't think outside the box. And I like that you're... I honestly love your story. Because you've shared so many different interesting things. You've put yourself out there in ways that a lot of us are too scared to do. And you've learned so much about it. I think being an entrepreneur is betting on yourself and saying, I think that I can make this thing work. And sometimes it fails miserably. And we're

like, yeah, that was not a great idea. And other times, it gives you this new life into your own life that you're like, how did I ever exist without this? How did I not know that this is exactly what I was meant to do? So I just want to give just a moment of space there for anybody listening who is maybe in a similar position that you've been in that's tried multiple things and is blogging just the next thing I want to try. And they might be feeling some doubt. They might be feeling scared to move forward. What would you say to that person who's like you, Jen, who has tried a lot of different things, who's tried to go out on their own and do different things and find enjoyment? What encouragement do you have to offer to them about blogging?

So I think I would say that your career is not linear. I think we hear so many stories about these bloggers. I started my blog and next month month I'm a seven figure blogger, you know, and then when you don't have that success, you feel discouraged. I'm never going to make it. Oh, I'm not good enough. And I mean, especially sometimes for me, like I have an MBA from one of the top schools in the world and you know, it took me like more than a year to get it. And I'm not even quite at the full-time income I want to be. It's like, it feels like it's really mortifying. But if you're listening, you know what? I think most people's journeys are like that. But what they want to tell you is that I became successful quickly, which is really not the normal path. So, you know, if you're not there yet, don't be discouraged.

That's number one. And number two is, you know what, it's okay to try blogging. And if it doesn't work for you, you will be left with skills that you can take to another job. So that's one thing that reassured me when I started this, because, you, because I paid quite a lot for my MBA. And I would kind of like to recoup my educational expenses. If I don't make it as a blogger or I decide it's really not for me, I'm pretty sure I could get a job in SEO. Maybe not a top job. You have to start somewhere low. But I'm really sure that there is another path out there open for you. And that's what your career will be like. It will go up, it will come down, it will go left, it will go right. I mean, you've heard my story, it went around in circles. Yeah, and I think all those skills that we that we gather along that, that journey are just

contributing to what we can bring to our business as a blogger as well. And you figured out so many things about yourself along the way, and you figured out what's important to you, what you do want to do what you don't want to do. And it helped you create this blog that is an expression of like what you want to share and what you feel comfortable sharing, which I think in the long run will just help you continue to have that passion for it because you enjoy what you're doing. I love what I'm doing. So what I really like about blogging is that, you know, it's not just creative, it's analytical as well. So, you know, you create the recipe,

but I can't just keep creating recipes. You kind of have to look at what worked, what didn't work, you know, the research. So, you know, use both your left brain and your right brain. And you know, if you don't like any of those stuff, don't worry, you can always hire it out. Yeah, you and Jennifer would be best friends.

Well, actually, I did see a quote in your About Me page, right? And it says that you're a lifelong entrepreneur. I'm not sure if I'm attributing it to the right person, but no stranger to doing odd jobs to earn money. I totally resonated with that. That's me. I've done all kinds of crazy things.

Same here. Jennifer is the analytical piece of Spark Media Concepts though. And so loves that. So I think we can both relate to you in different ways. I'm the one who's always doing odd jobs. I've sold wreaths. I've been part of multiple different network marketing companies. I've done a host of things. I'm like, if I can make money doing it, sure, why not try? All while being able to be a stay-at-home mom. That's been my biggest thing is I want to be

able to be here for my kids. And so making money as I can, and it'd be really exciting. And knowing that no matter how old you get or whatever, you can always learn new things. And you can reinvent yourself and you can find new passions. And that's one of the things that I think blogging is really awesome. Because we do have different things that become really important to us as we continue to grow and as we age and all of that. And you can always start anew. You can always go down a different path. You can always decide, hey, this is something that I'm really passionate about and I want to share or I want to learn more about. And blogging can be the vehicle that allows you to do that. I totally agree with you. I find it really inspiring. In the Media Buying Group, some of the really big bloggers will reveal their age and you're like, my goodness, they're like 70

or 80. And you know, their blogs are huge. You know, so I've been trying to encourage my mom to start a blog so that I can have a free minion, but she's not quite buying it. That's hilarious. That's hilarious. sit to find keywords we actually want to use in our posts. Key search is a powerful keyword research tool that makes finding relevant, low competition keywords for your blog simple and easy. If you think optimizing your blog and doing keyword research has to be hard, think again. Give this powerhouse tool a try and see how much easier it will be to create content for your blog. Not only is it reasonably priced, even for beginning bloggers, but you can use our code for 20% off your subscription. Click the link in our show notes to learn more. So what have you found? So you mentioned you're in the Mediavine group, which means you've been

able to get to that level with your blog that you're using an ad network, which I think is just right there. I want to commend you. That's excellent. I know you've worked so hard to get to that point. So how did you get there? How did you get to that point that you could get that passive income and an ad network on your blog?

The main thing I think, which is not directly related, was to find a community. And I know you guys have a great course. And I do think it's very helpful to be part of a community because they can tell you things that you don't know about blogging or monetizing. And that saves so much time. So the one reason I think the first blog failed was that I didn't have this community of bloggers. So I didn't even know Mediavine existed, even though I had the right traffic. And so I closed the blog when I could have monetized it. So then the second time around, I found this group on Facebook. And then I heard,

oh, there's this thing called this ad network and you need this kind of traffic. So then I made that my goal to reach that number. And if I didn't know about this, I would never have reached it. Then obviously it's now that I know this number, how do I get to the number? So the key thing is,

I guess has been making sure my blog is SEO optimized so that Google will give it a nod from time to time. And the second thing is to actually write posts that people are looking for. So, you know, not just whatever I want to write, but, you know, stuff that people actually want to make. Right. I think that's so interesting that you didn't know about that before. And being part of that community is what helped you understand that. Like, I'm kind of heartbroken that you didn't learn that earlier. Me too. When I think of the first blog that had the backlink from BuzzFeed. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. But you're there now. And that's the important part. And now you know what to do. Those are things that we definitely encourage our students and

our listeners, quite honestly, who are listening to the podcast. Keyword research. I realize it's something that a lot of people are like, I don't want to do that. But you just said it yourself that that is one of the top things that allowed you to get on the ad network, which I think a lot of bloggers are shooting for. Because we actually have a podcast episode with Heather Toulos from Mediavine. And she talks about using an ad network and why that is beneficial to your blog. So we will put that in the show notes for you to check out as well. If maybe this is your first time hearing about getting on an ad network. Most bloggers like to be on one. That is something that they aspire to do. Not all. It's not something that is a requirement

to be a blogger. But it does allow you to earn that passive income that many of us go into blogging looking for. I encourage most bloggers to try to enter the network because like you said, it's a great passive income. But if you do want to make blogging your full-time job, I think you have to also look beyond the ad money because it takes a lot of traffic to get a full-time income just from ads. And for a lot of us, I think when we start, we're just thinking we want to get to Mediavine, we want to get through Aptiv. And then when you get there, you're like, oh wait, the journey from now to full-time income is light years compared to... It's actually further than getting into Mediavine. So just know that there are other forms of monetization as well.

What have you found some of those other forms to be that you enjoy doing? Because there's a lot of different ways to make money blogging, but they're not ways that we all enjoy doing. So what do you personally enjoy doing? clients. I used to have an agency job and oh my God. But I have to say that if you want the quick money, I think sponsorship is the quickest way to build yourself into a six or seven figure blogger. So if that's your aim, then that's the good route to explore. But for personally, I'm trying to diversify my income. So I'm looking at affiliates and food is a bit challenging for affiliates. So that's why I actually started the second blog, A Love Letter to Asia, which is the Asian travel blog because for hotels and flights, the affiliate income is much more substantial. Yeah. I love that you... When I was reading through your Google form that we asked our guests to send over, I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about that. So you actually have

two blogs. You have a food blog and a travel blog. And your travel blog is very niched down. So how have you found that to be different than your food blog? Is your food blog as niched down as your travel blog? So my food blog, like I mentioned, because I started it as an Instagram account and whatnot. So it wasn't actually, I guess I didn't develop with the thought of keyword research. At that time I was in London, I was hosting friends and I was cooking Asian food all the time. So I was like, I'll do an Asian food blog. In retrospect, I would not do an Asian food blog. I would go more niche down. I think we should always think about the problem we're trying to solve for the reader. And I'm not solving any problem with this Asian food thing.

You know, it's more like, it's better to have like blog Asian food recipes for one person, you know, then I'm solving the person. I'm one person. What do I cook for myself? And so I guess when I redid it with the travel blog, I thought, you know, to niche down. And that's why the travel blog is about traveling in Asia comfortably. So no backpacking, but maybe not quite luxury, although maybe some of the experiences might be luxury. And also with elderly relatives, because at least in Asia, you know, a lot of us here have very old relatives who expect us to take them on vacation. And it's a bit different traveling with older people. So that's the personal aspect.

But also from a business point of view, the aging market is huge. And I think there are more and more seniors who are traveling and they want to know things like, you know, can I get wheelchair? What's the airport systems like? That kind of thing. So that's the focus of my second travel blog.

You said something that was really important in it. It's like, what do people need? And I think that it's so smart that you focused on that piece of it when figuring out your niche. It's that fine what do people need? And I think that it's so smart that you focused on that piece of it when figuring out your niche. It's that fine balance between what you enjoy and what will keep you motivated to post about, but also what people need, what people want,

and what people are looking for because you have to find that good balance in order to grow your traffic and get people on your site because otherwise you will feel like you're spinning your wheels. And I think a lot of people would say just an Asian food blog is pretty niched down. But I love the fact that you're thinking about how can I even serve people even at a greater level with

this blog. And so I just think it's really neat that you pointed out that all the things that you looked at in order to determine what are you going to blog about. Thank you. We talked a little bit about this downshifting idea. And I want to make sure that we give some airtime to that because it is a difference in lifestyle, like you said, from working for somebody and a guaranteed income to then going out on your own and you're your own boss. And you're also in charge of all the income that you bring in as well, which can be very lucrative, but it can be also quite a journey to get there. So what are some of the tips that you have to offer bloggers who are thinking about making that shift to downshift into blogging from maybe a very, very well-paid career in corporate?

So I guess the first tip was the most important, which was that make sure that you have much more than you think is enough to make the shift down. The second is to know that whatever change you make, it's not permanent. So don't feel like it's the end of the world if it doesn't work out. And thirdly is really to understand your personality before you make the change. So for example, I started on Instagram, which really was a bad fit for my personality because it's about being an influencer and I was saying, I don't want to put myself out there. So before you downshift, you really need to understand what you want and don't want to do, what you're prepared to do for money and what you're not prepared to do for money. And that will lead you to the right downshifting path for you. That's a fantastic tip. Because yeah,

you kind of have to do some of that self exploration so that you don't get caught up in some of the things where you think you have to do something and then you end up being unhappy because you're chasing after money or even just popularity or whatever you think might be the most important thing without really being thoughtful about where you're spending your time and energy. Very true. So the fourth is that your life will change. so the fourth is that your life will change i mean obviously we know that your job's going to change but your your life outside work will change as well because suddenly you will no longer be on this shall we say same level as your old friends so a lot of those friends will disappear so you know that's something you have to be prepared for but no problem because you'll find a lovely community in the blogging world and i mean it's true i used to hate networking when i

was working professionally because i felt it was really fake. We're all there because we want something out of each other. And we're just, you know, we're doing it to get the job done. But I never feel that way with blogging. You know, like people, I feel they're very genuine and they really want to help each other or whatnot. Yeah, I think we both have that experience with blogging too. I think we can, I think all three of us here. Yeah. It always amazes me how helpful the blogging community can be. And in a lot of other environments, that's just not the case. It is kind of more cutthroat and more competition. And that's one of the things that we're really passionate about is community over competition

and helping other people. The internet's a big place. The world's a big place. There's enough room for all of us to succeed and help each other do that, for sure. I guess it helps that we all like what we're doing. So, you know, we're happy people, you know, nicer. Such a good point.

That's so true. It's a good point. It is a good point. Well, I have loved this conversation and I think that you've shared some really, really, really important things to consider for anybody who is kind of thinking about making this shift. Can you please tell everybody where they can connect with you,

Jen? Since I have two blogs, I'm just going to stick with the details for one. If not, I think it gets very confusing. So you can find me on my blog, which is greedygirlgourmet.com. And that is my handle on most social media channels. So Instagram, Pinterest, Facebook, it's all under Greedy Girl Gourmet and only Twitter is under Greedy Girl G because I didn't have enough space in the handle for the name. And obviously you can email me to greedygirlgourmet at gmail.com. Awesome. Awesome. We will put all of those links in the show notes and thanks for sharing your story and thanks for joining us in the middle of the night. So Jen is actually in Singapore. So we are doing this interview at lunchtime here, but it's

actually like 1am where she is. So this has just been really fun to interview somebody all the way across the world from where we are and connect. And this is the beauty of blogging is that no matter where you are, you can make those connections and happy that we got to meet today. Thanks for having me. I really enjoyed the conversation. I'm sure you could tell I was a bit sleepy when we first started, but then after that, you know,

the conversation flowed and I feel much more awake. Yay. Awesome. Thanks so much. Thank you for your time. Thanks so much for tuning in today. If you'd like to continue the conversation

about blogging with us, please find us on Instagram at spark media concepts. You can also sign up for our weekly newsletter where we share blogging tips and inspiration. You can sign up by finding the link in the show notes. For those of you who are ready for the next step and want to start your own blog, join the waitlist for the ultimate blog bootcamp. The link to join the waitlist is also in the show notes. Go out and make today a great day.