The Underworld Podcast - El Chapo's Sons Built a Fentanyl Empire: Los Chapitos

Episode Date: July 9, 2024

With El Chapo locked up in a supermax prison and never going home, there's been a battle to maintain the power of his feared Sinaloa cartel. Many thought his sons, groomed to take his place, would falter. Seen mostly as spoiled rich kid "narco juniors" who possessed neither the intelligence nor the strength to outmaneuver older, more experienced druglords, the men known as Los Chapitos have surprised many by turning their faction of the cartel into a ruthless powerhouse pumping out fentanyl into the US. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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at Yamava.com must be 21-20. Please gamble responsibly. Monopoly is a trademark of Hasbro. Hasbro is not a sponsor of this promotion. 2019 in Kulia Khan, the capital of the Mexican state of Sinola. And the Mexican National Guard is conducting a raid at a nondescript house. Sinolawe is, of course,

what would be considered the capital of top-level narcos. It's mountainous and law territory has long been a base for bandits and outlaws, though in recent years, some of the kimpins have barely bothered to conceal themselves. Like the guy who's just been arrested at this normal seeming house. He happens to be Ovidio Guzman, son of legendary cartel leader Joaquin El Chapo Guzman. He's cuffed and taken away. Ovidio bears a slight resemblance to his infamous father, but he's handsome, square-jawed and

short, just like his dad. he kind of looks like an annoying rich kid you'd see out of Miami, except, well, he's at the top of thousands of train killers. Ovidio is one of four of Chappos' many children, collectively known as Los Chapitos, who have risen to the top to lead his faction of the powerful Sinolawa cartel after his final arrest in 2016, an eventual extradition. And getting captured by the Mexican National Guard is an amateur move on the part of the 29-year-old, especially in his home state of Sinolawa. But it's never a good idea to count this family out. And this time, the cavalry is coming. Within hours of him being detained, upwards of 700 cartel gunmen spread out across the city. Absolute chaos ensues.

Roadblocks, fires, shootings, its complete anarchy as Kulia Khan turns into a madmack-style war zone, leaving the entire city paralyzed and terrified. Scenes are broadcast all over social media, and the Mexican government is pushed. in a tough spot. Things get so hectic that surrounded Mexican troops call Oviedo's brother Yvonne on the phone, trying to calm things down. Ovidio tells him, tell them to stand down. I don't want chaos.

But Ivan replies, hell no, we are coming to rescue you. A few years earlier, Ovidio had been indicted by the U.S. for trafficking coke, meth, and marijuana. So if he gets locked up, there's a good chance he'll soon be joining his dad in ADX foreigns. Not the kind of surroundings the so-called narco juniors have grown up accustomed to. The cartel Sicarioes are desperate to keep him free, and even start plotting to kidnap the families of soldiers and police. Some civilians are being held at gunpoint, others are fleeing for their lives. The battles last about four hours, before, strangely,

the Sicarios and National Guardsmen meet up, some even shaking hands, and put their guns down. The president of Mexico, Andréz Manuel Lopez, Obrador, has decided to step in, he orders Ovidio set free immediately, saying that the violence isn't worth it for just one criminal. It's a stunning display of weakness for the state, one that's broadcast all over the world. In the aftermath of the aborted arrest of the Chapo Air, surprisingly, only eight people are dead, seven soldiers and one civilian, and a bunch wounded. But the message has been sent. Los Chapitos are willing to directly take on the state, and they're a force to be reckoned with in Mexico,

even with their infamous father locked up in an American supermax with no chance of being let go. In fact, according to a Reuters special report on how the Chapitos built a fentanyl empire, in the ensuing months after Chapo's extradition in 2017, 13 police officers in Sinolaoa are either killed or disappeared. To quote Reuters, that spree was the start of a shift in tactics

within Guzman's Sinolawa cartel. according to four intelligence and security officials, one that signaled the arrival of a new force inside one of Mexico's most powerful drug syndicates. The Kingpin's Four Sons. This is the Underworld podcast. Welcome back to the audio experience where every week, a British man by the name of Sean Williams

and an American, me, Danny Gold, bring you stories of organized crime, disorganized crime, and everything in between from around the globe. We are two journalists who have each spent over a decade reporting in the field on topics of this nature, sometimes even successfully. And now you can listen to us drone on while you barely pay attention and scroll through Instagram. Make sure you DM her the fire emoji.

It's going to start a great condo. Sean, you just wrote 50,000 words in one week and a podcast episode. How is that working out for you? Yeah, I actually wrote 15,000 words in a podcast app in a week while solo parenting and slipping into a deep, deep depression. My hero. My hero. Okay.

Sorry, you sound so dejective when I. But no, I'm proud of you. You did great work even without the sole parenting thing. Well done. You're a good man. As always, a quick plug for our Patreon. Patreon.com slash the Underworld Podcast where you can sign up and we usually post at least two bonuses a month that we've been slacking lately.

We'll do interviews with journalists, shorter episodes, things like that. You can sign up on Spotify, Patreon or on iTunes. Help us keep this going. Also, you know, follow us. us do all those things of that nature that we used to be ashamed to mention week after week, but we've since accepted that this is our reality now. If you listen to the show or even remotely follow the news, you know who El Chapo is. We've done episodes on him, on his friends, his colleagues, his enemies over the years,

but you might not know much about his four sons who have since stepped into his shoes to lead his faction of the all-powerful Sinolaa cartel. Chapo reportedly has dozens of illegitimate children, much like my partner, Sean Williams, but these are the four who have gone into the drug business and have gained the most prominence. They are brothers Ovidio, who you know from the Cold Open, and Joaquin Guzman Lopez, who have teamed up with their half-brothers, Ivan Archivaldo Guzman Salazar, and Jesus Alfredo Guzman Salazar, to form Los Chapitos, which the name kind of sounds like, I don't know, like,

does it sound like a four-top sort of group or like a mariachi bands? I thought it sounded like a sort of like Midwestern pizza place. Yeah. Or like mid, I guess Midwestern Taco Place, not Pizza Place. But yeah, Los Chapitos is their name. For those of you who don't know Spanish, that means the Chapitos. Oh, okay. That was in the works for what, two, three months?

Yeah, I've been, uh, I was really, I don't know if I delivered it, right? But really, really proud of that one. Uh, there, so it's two sets of full brothers. Uh, and the full brother sets are half brothers with each other. If that, that makes sense, right? There was also a fifth brother, Edgar, but he was killed decades ago. We're going to get to him in a little bit. These guys, of course, these brothers have a very different upbringing from their infamous father.

Chapo himself grew up dirt poor in the mountains of Senaloa and dropped out of school in the third grade to sell fruit on the side of the road. Yvonne, who was the oldest, he was born, we think, in 83 or 84, when his dad was already a rising star in the Guadalajara cartel. He was already getting lots and lots of money. So these kids really wanted for nothing except for maybe, you know, attention from their father, hugs, him to say he's proud of them. Things along those lines. By the early 90s, when Ovidio was born,

their dad was bringing in hundreds of millions as the co-founder of the Sinaloa Cartel, along with our previous podcast subject, El Mio. We did two episodes on him that have been doing really well. So people are interested in that. If you go back a couple weeks, you'll hear them. I think I plug like 10 old episodes in this, in this episode because we just have so many that we've done on these topics, feel free, go back,

listen to them all. So yeah, it's a very different childhood than any of the, than many of the first generation traffickers who had to kind of claw their way to the top from nearly insurmountable odds, dirt floor poverty, that sort of thing. And they call the sons of traffickers who get involved in the family business, Narco Juniors, which is, you know, kind of defamatory, I feel like. Yeah, I mean, Narco Jr. sounds like a footballer Chelsea going to buy for 120 mil. I mean, I should add actually while I'm on the subject. Go, go England? Oh my God.

I was going to ask, right, Wednesday. Samis, what's that guy? Southgate, right? Don't you all hate him anyway? It's like the weirdest thing ever. Everyone hates him and loves him exactly the same time. It's very British. We hate ourselves and we channel him.

And just like the Underworld podcast. So, Yvonne, I'll cheer for you. Why not? I like the Netherlands too, but you know, I want you to be happy and successful. Yeah, go on then. That'll make a difference. Yeah. Ivan, who is the rumored leader of Los Chapitos, and his nickname is actually Chapito, was the first of the brothers to get in real trouble with the law.

And while Sean Penn once characterized him as, quote, attentive with a comm maturity in his seminal piece on the Guzman family for Rolling Stone in 2016, Yvonne was anything but attentive and mature in April of 2004. That month, a young Canadian exchange student, a woman, and a Mexican guy she had just met that night were leaving a suburban Guadolitan. Lahara Nightclub, but there had been a fight at the club with the guy. I don't think the woman was aware of it. Apparently it was over the woman, so maybe she was aware of it. She was, like I said, a Canadian exchange student. Both of them are ambushed outside the club later that night by men in a red BMW. It's Yvonne and his goons. They shoot them, both die. Authorities name Yvonne as a suspect in that killing, but nothing ever comes of it. And it just seems like very, there's a couple moments like this. It just seems like a,

like a bad Netflix series about the sons of drug killers. Like, that's the kind of thing they get into a fight in a nightclub over a woman they don't know and then kill the guy who stands up for her, right? That's like, it's cliche, and we can do better than that. What are we thinking about attentive with a calm maturity? What do we think about that? I don't think he displayed those characteristics that evening, and as we'll see later on. The following year, he gets arrested again, this time in true rich kid fashion, for flipping his SUV after leaving a party in that same Guadalajara suburb,

which just sounds like it's a nonstop. you know, barrel of fun. In his car, the cops find drugs for partying, not for distribution, and weapons also for partying. This time, he's actually indicted for money laundering and organized crime offenses, but his bail of $50,000 is soon posted and he's released. But as soon as he's released, the cops detained him again for questioning on other charges, including some murders. The original charges against him actually end up not sticking due to insufficient evidence and high-powered cartel lawyers doing their thing, but he's still stuck in jail on those new money laundering charges. And while he's in jail, we get a psychological profile from the prison

that was leaked to the Mexican news site, seen embargo, which, yeah. I should just say, if you don't speak Spanish, that means an embargo on your sins. I don't think, I think it means no embargo, right? But, uh, it means no doubt, I think. Yeah, it's a great name for a, you know, a website that publishes this kind of thing. The profile describes Ivan as, quote, anxious, suspicious, reserved and evasive, with veiled hostility. He becomes sensitive. Again, exactly like a young Sean William. Okay, young? In the, uh, in the anger management section, it says that Yvonne positively channels his anger into recreational activities, such as car racing. But on the negative side, the profile says he shows probable psychological violence toward persons that he does not

consider of his socioeconomic level. I mean, this is just, again, a rich cartel kid cliche. flipping cars when he's yacked up, fighting in clubs and murdering people over some woman he just met, and just being violent to people who he perceives as poorer than him. Yeah, yeah, I do that too. I mean, there's not many on the streets, but I do that. It's a lot of fun. I should also say, I just looked up Sin embargo because I was like, that's not right. And it means, however, not without doubt, that Sin Duda. Real-time fact-checking.

But C-means like, no. Without sin. Oh, yeah. This is embarrassing. While Yvonne is in jail, he complains to his dad that the judge. jail is too cold, so Al Chapo being the attentive good father that he is, he pays a huge bribe to get Yvonne some sweats and thermals and stuff like that. He's actually ripped off by soldiers serving as his go-between with the prison officials who jacked the price up from, I think, 100K

to 500K. When Choppel finds out, well, this is a family organized crime podcast, but the results are not so good and not the kind of thing that will get us banned on YouTube. In 2008, Yvonne is finally formally charged and found guilty of money laundering. he sentenced the five years, but soon after the verdict, he surprisingly released from jail on appeal. There's multiple theories to why this occurs. One of them is that to get his son released, Chapo trades Alfredo Beltran Lava to the Mexican government. He's of the powerful Beltran Lava faction of the Sinaloa cartel, who Chapo was allied with at the time. And we've gone into detail on quite a few podcasts on what, like the battle that results from that.

I think in the Acapulco one as well, we talk about that. Belcher and Leva, you know, they were very powerful, I think, I don't even remember how many brothers it was. I think it was at least four. And they were sort of, you know, they were beneath Chapo and El Mayo, but they were a very powerful faction, very well connected. When Alfredo was arrested, it causes a huge internal Sinolawa cartel war between the Belcher and Lavas and the Chapo-Mayo faction, which Chapo and Mayo end up winning. There's another theory that's much simpler that the judge was just bribes to quote Forbes magazine. In a recent statement, the federal judicial. Judiciary Council, Mexico's top federal judicial agency, said that it had opened an investigation

on Judge Jose Luna Altamirano after determining that he had made bank transfers in the millions of dollars that were not reflected in his financial disclosures. The council said several family members also made large bank deposits. Yeah, I mean, remember when Forbes actually did reporting? When was the last time they actually, I mean, when did they go under? It's so weird now, Forbes. I mean, every magazine is going under, but the list, I think they still do the list, right? Which also, When they're doing the math for that, I think it's also sort of like speculation, not factual, but... Yeah. Didn't Chapo make one of those lists?

Chapo did make it. I don't think Mayo's ever been on it. Everyone always says Mayo has more money than Chapo, but he's somehow left off it. Now that Yvonne is freed, he starts working more and more with his dad in the cartel. It's pretty typical sometimes a Mexican cartel family is that their children follow their father's footsteps in the cartel game, which I don't know, kind of strikes me as, you know, not great. the smarter organized crime bosses we've covered, they always want to seem to keep their children out of it. Like, why have them go through the same thing

when they can just be movie producers or real estate developers, right? But alas, El Chapo is also following the path of his older pal and business partner, El Mayo, who had his sons and daughters, follow him into the underworld. We don't know much about the dozens of other rumored Chapo sons, but from what we can tell, these four sons, the Los Chapitos, are the ones who gain prominence in the underworld besides Edgar, who will get to in a second, and following Yvonne, those other three also enter the cartel when they become teenagers. I mean, I'm guessing he's got plenty of help at home and he's not, like, worried about sharing the mental labor or whatever the Instagram stories say.

But, like, 12, 15 kids, that's just horrible, isn't it? I don't know. Like, even if you're not even looking after him, it just sounds shit. Maybe I'm just speaking from a particularly bad week. I think he might be doing a better job than Nick Cannon. And I think they're around the same numbers. but they don't know how many kids Chapo has. I've seen 12, I've seen 15, I've seen dozens.

I assume most of them or many of them are illegitimate, even though I don't know how you classify that. You know, the known ones are basically the ones that we're talking about here. And speaking of those three, besides Yvonne, let's rewind a little bit to the childhood of Ovidio. He went to one of the most exclusive schools in Mexico City. And while little Ovidio was seen as a normal kid by his classmates, you know, he went to the other children's birthday parties

and participated in normal childhood stuff. the moms of his former classmates saw it differently. And that comes to a head when his greatest planning a trip to Disney and the other mother's scheme to make it so little a video is not included. His mother even offers to pay for everyone's trip, but he

still gets denied. A day after the other children return from the Disney trip, they all find their mothers no longer have their heads attached to their bodies. And I made that up, but it's kind of dark. I don't know if I want to keep it. It's a little dark, but I just wanted to make sure that you were paying attention to son.

but his mom does pull him out of the school after the great Disney debacle. And that's kind of all we know about his childhood. And this story, too, same's kind of made up to me, like a little iffy. I mean, I have to assume there were other connected families in this school. And this was probably around the late 90s, early 2000s.

So Chapo wasn't like completely infamous yet. But still, I mean, who's going to single out and deny the kid of a top level narco? Anyway, not much is known also about the other two brothers, Jesus Alfredo, and Joaquin, their childhoods.

But back to 2008, Yvonne is released. Alfredo Beltran Leva is arrested, and the Beltrone Lavas declare war on El Chapo. In the beginning of this war, they take out one of Chapo's sons, Edgar, who's a brother of Ovidio and Joaquin. Edgar was older, he was already poised to follow in his father's footsteps, he was well-connected.

He was the first of the sons to be heavily involved, and he had been running his own little operation, independently, kind of, like under their umbrella, but, you know, getting his own contacts, his own logistics sorted, making his own money, and really, you know, he was seen to be the heir to Chappo before he was killed. But 40 of the Belchran-Laba Sicario's, they catch Edgar at night in a shopping center parking lot and Kulia Khan and gun him in his security detail down, even supposedly using bazookas in the ambush. Yeah, I feel like that didn't get the crazy treatment like it is. like there's 40 guys, there's some of them carrying RPGs, and they're just hanging out

at a mall parking lot, like they're in GTA, like what the hell is going on there? And how is he bought into it? Cooley-Icon, man. I mean, it's like hunting. Like, they've talked about this, not them specifically, but it's like hunting parties. You know, they're going out looking to kill. They're on a mission to do that. After Edgar dies or is killed, Joaquino Video, they inherit their murdered older brother's

connections, taking over a bunch of his trafficking relationships. and getting all his drug money. That's actually according to the State Department, which classifies the two brothers as drug traffickers as early as 2008. And I think they're both pretty young at that time. Ovidio definitely is still a teenager. So, you know, definitely a Nepo baby in that regard

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and says they work under the umbrella of the Sinaloa Cartel, which is how the Sinaloa Cartel works. We've talked about this before over and over. it's a collection of affiliated organizations that work together and share resources. It's not a completely hierarchical pyramid organization. Al Mayo's got his guys, Chappos got us guys, the Belchun Lava's had their guys, and on and on and on. It's interesting, though, that these two guys, these two brothers who are sort of, they're sort of doing their own thing in a way, as opposed to just being directly under in El Chappo's organization.

I'm trying to think of an analogy that works, but it's maybe like if your dad owns a bunch of McDonald's franchises, and instead of like working under him at the office, he gives you a few restaurants to run on your own. Does that make sense? Does that work? Yeah, yeah. Probably does more harm to the average punters' health as well. I'm all right.

No way, dude, I'm pro McDonald's. But it is interesting though that they were going out there. They were striking it on their own instead of, I don't know how that would work. I guess they would be lieutenants for him or something along those lines. I'm sure, you know, they could call him up and ask for advice. In 2012, the U.S. government designates Chappo as a kingpin, the top dog,

through the Foreign Narcotics Kingpin Designation Act, aka the Kingpin Act, and Yvonne and Ovidio are both named as key lieutenants to their dad. Now, just to reiterate one more time, because I know there's a lot of names flying around. Yvonne and Hesuz Alfredo are full brothers, and Ovidio and Joaquin are full brothers. So we get one brother each from the two sets identified as key lieutenants.

So, you know, these kids, they're working their way up, they're doing their thing, but they're about to be thrust into a much more prominent role when Chapo was captured for the third time in 2016 and finally extraded to the US in 2017. Though I think, you know, anyone who has seen Mystic River is willing to forgive Sean Penn. I mean, yeah, but wasn't that all Andy Dufrains work anyway?

Dude, no, that's the wrong movie. Oh, damn. Wait, what's the Tim Robbins one? Isn't there a Tim Robbins? Oh, no, you're right. No, you're right. Sorry, I'm off. Yeah, Tim Robbins was in Mr. River.

You're right. Great. Incredible movie, though. Initially, when their father's arrested in January 2016, Los Chapitos are said to be under the protection of Elmayo as they start asserting themselves within Sinaloa. Amio is, of course, the co-founder of the Sinaloa cartel. And for those who haven't listened to our recent two-part series on him, he's one of the most powerful drug traffickers in Mexico's history, if not the most powerful. No one really knows what to expect with Chapo's heirs.

They didn't claw their way up from the bottom. And they're obviously seen as the spoiled sons of the boss man. But with Omaio overseeing things, this is when the four brothers kind of link up to form that one unit. and become known as Los Chapitos. So around this time, there's now three factions in the Sinaloa cartel. We get the Chapo faction, which Los Chapitos come in to take over. Then we get El Mayo's faction, and again, he's sort of overseeing them a little bit. And finally, we get another faction led by Chappos' brother, the uncle of Los Chapitos,

who does clash with the Chapitos as well. So Los Chapitos, they get off to a bumpy start trying to establish themselves independently in the drug world after their father's arrest, when in the summer of 2016, one of the four we haven't mentioned much on, Jesus Alfredo. He's kidnapped at a high-class restaurant in Puerto Vallarta, Halisco, by the Halisco New Generation Cartel. Some stories say it was Jesus Alfredo and Yvonne, but CNN has it as just Jesus Alfredo being kidnapped. And according to them, quote, the kidnapping was an important development because it affects the power structure of the

Sinolaa cartel. His son was supposed to be part of the new leadership. That's a senior Mexican law enforcement official said, referring to Jesus Alfredo. The article goes on to cite, a source inside the investigation that says Jesus Alfredo was partying a lot and kind of not taking his role seriously and was caught off guard, which is typical, you know? It's probably looking at his phone as the other government just rolled up to him just not paying attention. And we've done an episode a ways back on El Mancho and Halisco, the Halisco New Generation Cartel, but even for cartels, they are incredibly psychopathic and brutal. So not the kind of guys you want to catch you slipping. No, not at all. Is it like just so wild that this multi-billion dollar business, this

stretching literally all over the world, is run by this like incestuous clique of guys from one place? I don't know. It just feels weird. I guess the Colombians did do their own thing in the day, but it always just shocks me how the South Americans didn't really try taking these Mexicans out and keeping the cash of themselves. Or maybe they did and they got killed, but yeah. That ground route into Mexico, you know, once they shut down Miami, that became the thing. And then the Mexicans just made so much that they, They, you know, took everything over. But yeah, and it's also, it's not just, you're not just talking about Mexico, right?

Sinolaoa itself. I mean, that's where a lot, not all the traffickers, but that this one state, it's fascinating. Luckily for Los Chapitos, El Mio kind of comes to the rescue, and Jesus Alfredo is released after being held for several days. It's kind of a mystery why they would release him and not kill like a major operative, major leader in their biggest rival cartel. We can only really speculate on what the reasoning was, but El Mio has been known throughout his career to be. be very adept at negotiating and brokering deals with rival cartels. There's also a wild rumor that Elmio got to El Meno's son, El Mancho being the head of Haldisco, and said, if you don't release him, we're going to kill your son, which, you know,

it's a master negotiator move right there if you want to know how to negotiate. There's also another unsubstantiated rumor that he just kind of paid a ransom for him. According to Processo Magazine, which is a popular Mexican magazine, after this ordeal, Jesus Alfredo heads to Medellín. Did I do it right that time? Yes, Medellin. I always get that wrong. Medellin.

For several months under the protection of a gang known as La Terraza, who are one of the most powerful criminal gangs in the area. They're a strong faction of a group that we've talked about before, La Officina de Ambagado. They were originally, I think, the enforcement wing of Pablo Escobar's cartel. And they broke off, I think, when he was killed. But we've talked about them with our guest Toby Mews because when I visited Toby in Colombia in 2011, I want to say, we actually got to meet some. of those guys. I'd like a... He's interviewed them a bunch.

He's, you know, well connected there. I think we talk about that in one of Toby's Columbia episodes. The magazine goes on to say that Jesus Alfredo was there for months, kind of moving between several apartments in the most exclusive parts of the city. He had a crew of 12 armed guys from La Taraza for protection at all times. He chauffefered around in like an armored or bulletproof truck to do some business. And it says the area is considered a safe place for top traffickers of the Sinaloa cartel that they go there when they're having trouble at home,

but not like domestic issues. They mean people wanting to murder them issues, that sort of thing. Hazers Alfredo was apparently setting up some Coke labs and working on money laundering, but still managed to party a bit because, you know, it is Columbia, and even sponsored a local soccer team.

At the same time this is going on, Los Chapitos are clashing with their dad's old right-hand man, who Damaso, I don't even know how to say that name, Damaso Lopez. Shortly after their dad is locked up, they start squeezing Lopez, who had previously been in charge whenever Chapa was locked up. He was kind of guy who failed in as the top level outside prison guy. According to Mexican Marines who spoke to Reuters,

the Chepidos cut off Lopez's access to water in Sinolaoa. I think they all get water from the same dam, which prevented him and his cartel faction from manufacturing drugs and seriously dented his finances. Jesus Christ, like Cold War in North Africa or something. Yeah, I mean, they're squeezing him too. I mean, there's gun battles, all that sort of stuff. And then in 2017, that's one of those 13 police officers are killed or go missing in

Sinolawa that we mentioned in the cold open. It turns out they were actually on Lopez's payroll and Los Chapitos were picking them off. They're also doing this kind of sick twisted things you would expect from a terrible nephic series again on Narco Juniors. Here's the Reuters special report again. One of the U.S. indictments unsealed last month details other grisly violence allegedly met it out by Los Chapitos. Their henchmen allegedly kidnapped two officials from the federal attorney general's office in early 2017,

torturing one by inserting a corkscrew into his muscles, ripping it out, then placing hot chilies into his open wounds and nose. Yeah, I think I read about this one on Gwyneth Peltro's website. It's really good for your paws, apparently. You know, we should say, like, these are rumor. These are like Justice Department reports. It doesn't mean they're necessarily true. Yvonne finished off the victims with gunshots with Hazel Salfredo, pitching him to shoot one in the face, according to the indictment, which said the two brothers also killed some enemies by feeding them alive to the pet tigers they kept at their ranches. Again, super cliche. The brothers actually go so far as to release an open letter. I think their first time doing that where they say, quote, they deny all the charges and they say, quote, a tiger may kill a person, but eat him,

we do not have, nor did we have tigers. Yeah, and that's why there's never been the phrase man eating tiger, right? I'm pretty sure, too, they did. Like, there were these Instagram accounts that were out there, that were allegedly them and most people think it was them though they weren't verified but a lot of tigers on those yeah they did have tigers but I think we did it

that there was the episode that we did like a year ago about tigers and criminals and they were definitely part of it yeah yeah that was a good idea for an episode and if it's on our show then it's true good for you good for you Sean Los Chapitos they win out Lopez is actually arrested in 2017

X right to the US and later testifies against El Chapo and there's now speculation he has entered into witness protection So if you're out there, give us a call. We'll do a little Patreon episode. Then in 2018, Jesus Alfredo actually makes the DA's list of the top 10 most wanted fugitives. That along with this 2015 U.S. indictment, that lists Chapo and Mayo and some other top cartel figures.

But none of the other kids besides Jesus Alfredo has convinced some that he's actually the leader of Los Chapitos, even though Ovidio and Yvonne get a lot more attention. and we'll learn why Ovidio is just kind of operating on a different level soon. He's actually a lot smarter than we're giving him credit for. I actually just checked the D.A's most one list and Jesus Alfredo is no longer in the top 10 while Yvonne is. So, you know, there you go. It's a bit more likely that Yvonne might be the top one. So congrats are in order to him. So we haven't talked that much about the fourth brother, Joaquin, who is Ovidio's full brother.

And that's for good reason. He keeps it tight. He's very low profile. more like El Mio than Chapo, I would say, solo profile that when the USA issued their first most wanted poster of him, they actually used the wrong photo of an uninvolved Chapo kid and had to re-release the poster with his actual photo. And while the other kids would eventually have 10 million bounties on their head, he only has a 5 million bounty on his head, which I think we can all agree, is real amateur

hour type stuff. In an interview with a Mexican journalist, Lopez's son, Chappos, you know, the guy we just talked about Chappos' right-hand man who Los Chapitos fought, says that Joaquin's low profile isn't by accident. Quote, he told Ovidio, you do the negotiations, you give everything. But the one who had the last word was Joaquin. He does add, though, that this was several years ago, so maybe O'Video has taken a bigger role since then and matured, and he goes on to say that Joaquin believed that he was the smartest brother of the four. I mean, that's going to be a tense drunken game of Scrabble at Christmas, that's for sure. Yeah, I mean, they haven't turned on each other, like, but who knows,

what could happen. So yeah, we're roughly in 2019. That's when we have the cold open scene with Ovidio getting detained. And Yvonne and Los Chapitos get him freed by plunging Kulia Khan into anarchy and forcing the state to back down, which is a huge power move from them and seen as a pretty emphatic statement about like, hey, we're here and we are running things. In the chaos of Ovidio's release, there's some dispute with O'Mio's role. One Mexican journalist said that nothing happened in Sinaloa without the approval of O'Meo and

that his own men were participating in everything. Others have said that El Mio actually held his men back. We don't know exactly what happens, but after Ovidio is freed, organizations connected to Los Chapitos, begin fighting organizations connected to El Mio, which, you know, the way these guys conduct themselves could be random, but also seems a little more than coincidental.

So they're kind of, you know, they're splitting at that point, the El Mio faction in Los Chapitos. It's no longer this sort of like big, you know, your dad's friend helping you do work sort of, situation. There's also speculation that Los Chapitos seem to want to go at everything themselves. According to the website Info Bay, which I know has like a silly name, but it's not that kind of bay. It has a ton of interesting stuff on the cartel war as always. Los Chapitos get into a prolonged battle with a key Maya lieutenant known as La Rousseau or the Russian and his men. Apparently the Russian

didn't participate in the attack to Free-O video, which pisses off Los Chapitos and then they get into a battle over who has higher ranking. And to avoid a full-on war, Amayo orders the Russian and his men to move from north, and they do. But the Chapitos continue to battle with Los Rousseau is the name of his squad in other areas like Baja and Sonora. And this feud goes on for years with sort of like, you know, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. On another warfront, Los Chapitos get into a multi-year war with the Caborka cartel, which is led by Rafael Carol Cantero, who was one of the original cartel kingpins and partnered with Miggen. Miguel Anheel Felix, the original cartel boss in Mexico.

Kintaro famously murdered American DEA agent Enrique Kiki Kamerenna, and he somehow managed to bribe his way out of prison in 2013 after a judge ordered his release, well, led to a judge ordering his release. And then he went right back to work. Longtime listeners of the podcast, too, might remember when I was supposed to go to Altara, Mexico and spend some time in the compound of a high-ranking. Sinaloa cartel commander by the name of El Durango. he was actually fighting the Caborka cartel for Los Chapitos with his squad, the Grupo Delta of Gente Nueva.

Of course, the Mexican National Guard decided to absolutely ruin my entire career. And he was arrested about five days before we were supposed to fly to Tucson and cross the border into Nogales to meet his men. That episode is from March of 2023. It's called The Time the Mexican Army Ruin my cartel sleepover. And if you want, go back and listen to it to get the full story. Yeah, I mean, I'm still bummed. out you and Boris Nyfeld aren't best buddies as well. I want to know more about that. We're going to get there. We're going to get there. I've confidence that it'll work out with him

eventually. Anyway, the main point to take away here is that Los Chapitos are in the mix, battling it out and inserting themselves, even versus sort of the old guard that were highly respected. And the second point is that the Mexican military absolutely does not want to see me win. Katero, he doesn't last long either, and a year later in July of 2022, he gets arrested again, and the Chapitos take his territory, and in the days after their arrest, they kill a couple dozen people in Caborka and nearby towns. So, yeah, they're expanding like crazy.

We kind of had this image of them as these, like, spoiled narco kids who were going to be, you know, like a King Joffrey situation or like whoever the new guy is in house of drag. And just like, you know, these kids who thought they knew it all and were going to be terrible, but it does seem at this point, like they are, they have a lot of wins and they're good at what they do.

Obviously, they're terrible people, but as we're going to see, they have probably, you know, change the game in terms of drugs coming into the U.S. But before that, they start making heavy investments right now in fancy weed. And the expectation is that weed is going to be legalized in Mexico soon. This is all according to Luis Chaparro. We've had him on a bunch. He's an incredibly talented journalist, so go follow him if you're not. Yeah, Luis is great.

I mean, it kind of seems like you're defeating the object if you legalize weed, but the weed. but the weed industry is controlled by deadly cartels who traffic harder stuff? I don't know. It just doesn't make a lot of sense, possibly. But, you know, God, you got to legalize weed, I guess. The lost boys tried to tell us in 1994, man, it's all about getting that legal drug money. Okay, so they've set up high-end dispensaries all over Kulia Khan already. They're learning from the U.S. weed scene, and they're actively trying to brand and produce high-quality stuff.

they also are shelling out money to lobbyists to get the Mexican government to legalize weed. So far, they aren't all the way there, but Mexico has made some progress legalizing medical weed in 2017 and decriminalizing recreational weed use for adults in 2021. But if they're anything like the weed stocks that I've invested in, they're down 90% and the Chapito should get out of that business as soon as possible. By the end of 2022, the Chapitos are also dominating the meth and fend trade in Mexico. and a lot of the media on both sides of the border are starting to say they've built an empire,

a fentanyl empire. Reuters releases that special report in May of 2023, titled How El Chapo Sons built a fentanyl empire, poisoning America. Quote, once dismissed as narco brats, flaunting fast cars, pet tigers, and a golden AK-47 on social media, the brothers have emerged as key figures

in the violent Sinolaa cartel, security officials say. Yeah, and I'm going to do something on this soon for the show as well, like specifically the way they use Chinese money laundering groups to wash their fentanyl cash. So, yeah, look out for that one. That'll be interesting. Oh, yeah, that'll be great. People love that stuff. Choice hotels get you more of what you value.

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And that's just one of thousands of stories waiting for you on Morning Cup of Murder. Hi, I'm Karina B. Minas Durfer. And every single day on Morning Cup of Murder, I bring you a real, chilling, true cross. story connected to that exact day in history, from killer cannibal brothers to the Boy Scout who was obsessed with the occult and the strange story of the bloody hammer in the frozen cabin. These aren't the cases you've heard a hundred times. They're the ones that make you stop and think, how have I never heard this before? With over 2,500 episodes and a brand new story

each and every single day, Morning Cup of Murder becomes part of your routine fast. If you like your coffee hot, but your bones chilled, then sit back and start your day with a morning cup of murder. Go listen to Morning Cup of Murder wherever you get your podcasts. And remember, stay safe. Continuing with a quote from that article, The Chapitos pioneered the manufacturer and trafficking of the deadliest drug our country has ever faced. And Mill Graham, the USDA chief said, at an April 14th press conference in Washington. That's April 14th, 2023. They inherited a global drug empire and made it more ruthless, more violent, and more deadly. Tripitos at this point are said to have stopped acting as a transshipment point for Chinese

fentanyl. They've actually started importing the precursors themselves from China and opened up superlabs all across Sinolawa. According to that Reuters report that cites the State Department. In 2008, Ovidio began smuggling chemicals from Argentina to make meth. And in 2014, he started trying to figure out how to do the same and make fentanyl. So maybe, you know, this kid, despite being a spoil. the narco son, kind of is a criminal genius in that way. Here's more. The cartel can turn $800

worth of precursor chemicals into fentanyl pills or powder that reprofits as high as $640,000. According to one of the April indictments, which was filed in the Southern District of New York. That cast, U.S. prosecutors say, has bankrolled a war chest used by the brothers to bribe politicians and cops and finance an ever-growing army of Sicarios or hitmen to protect. their interest. Again, you know, the numbers, when you're looking at DA reports or indictments, I'm never going to put 100% of faith into them. But like the markups, the margins for fancy. That's why people start selling fancy. The markups are insane. And if you're just buying the precursor criminals and then doing that, you know, it very well could be somewhere in that

neighborhood of like $1,000 to half a million in terms of profit. It's insane. Well, at least I guess it's $1,000 in buying the chemicals, right? But there's... There's labor, gunmen, smuggling fees, and all that. So either way, they're doing okay for themselves. The Chapitos, like I mentioned earlier, they took issue with all these indictments and even went so far as to release an open letter

for the first time saying none of this was true. How can any of that not be true? I don't... It's definitely true. It's definitely true. They've also tried to do some of the Robin Hood stuff, that their dad was known for a little bit more. Like they built an outdoor school in rural Senaloa during COVID.

They're giving away washing machines and food. They have like concerts, things like that. But again, they don't have the most sterling reputation. Here's Mexican crime journalist Marcos Zizcarra. Quote, if people needed help under El Chapo, they got help. If somebody had a health problem and they found out about it, they would get them help. And from that feeling of protection came a sense of governance. Those Chapidios have created a super capitalistic environment.

they only see production, they only see a labor force, and nothing else. They've also done away with the previous kind of Sinaloa and Narco Kingpin Code of not selling retail in their home state and have been having the dealers sort of all work for them. Yeah, I mean, this is like one of the reasons drug crime is so interesting, right? It's like, it's just the most ruthless gloves-off version of the system we're all living. I don't know. Like, that's one of the reasons I find it fascinating anyway, because you know those real criminals are, right, Danny? Those crooks in Congress?

Those cooks in Congress, correct. No, I mean, look, there's ruthlessness, I think, does not get you to the top. I think these guys are also brilliant in ways that, you know, the kind of thing you see in like Fortune 500 CEOs, which as much as people want to pretend like it's not a, you know, you're making decisions every single day that affects. Yeah. Especially if you're a drug lord. You know, lots of people, how the company's going to function and all that. And it's pretty much just like constant decisions, constant logistics.

and you have to just problem solve nonstop. And it's not an easy thing to do. Ask anyone who tried to sell weed in college. Like, it's a lot of headache and hassle. So rising to the top of a drug lord, like look, some of them are complete ruthless psychopaths. Mensho is a good example of that, Zetas, all that sort of stuff. But they have to be proficient.

You can't just be ruthless. I mean, those that will be the Sicario or the enforcers or things like that. You're not going to be the head like these guys are. So by the end of 2022, Los Chapitos, they're looking pretty good. Insight crime even names them their game changers of the year in 2022. But the good times do not last. Ovidio is arrested again at the star of 2023 and is grabbed by the Mexican military in a rapid raid on the outskirts of Kulia Khan involving helicopter fire and hundreds of soldiers.

19 Sicario's and 10 soldiers are killed in the gun battle. Los Chapitos go back to the same sort of tactic of starting to cause chaos there. They're lighting up roadblocks on fire and shooting at commercial planes at the airport on the runway that we're taking off. But this time the army is prepared in Ovidio is quickly transported to Mexico City right after the raid and the chaos kind of stops once a picture of him pops up of him getting off the military helicopter in Mexico City. This is obviously a pretty big blow for Los Chapitos and it gets worse when Ovidio is extradited in September of 2023. So that's a wrap for him, but we'll see if he ends up testify. In the summer of 2023, narco banners start to go up in Kulia Khan with the Chapito saying, all fend production must stop and people who violate the ban are going to be executed.

The U.S. is not taking the fentanyl epidemic quietly anymore and the pressure is on. And even with Amlowe not exactly being full on in terms of battling the narcos, it does not bode well for Mexican narcos or kingpins when the U.S. is that laser-focused. Yeah, I mean, I'm guessing it will be more of the same on the show. Seinfeldon as well, but when does she come in? It must be soon, right? She's kind of his protégé. Right, right. So I think it might be the same, but obviously, like, there's going to be immense pressure

because the fentanyl stuff is not slowing down. And I'm surprised it hasn't been a bigger conversation topic in the election season, but I'm sure it will ramp up. But yeah, I can't picture them letting up the pressure at all on stopping that. No. So yeah, initially it seems like they are serious about this. There's like 50 fentanyl producers who I think were killed by Sicario's that the Chapido sent out to enforce the ban. But the ban isn't really a ban as the production just migrates north.

So it's away from Kulia Khan and closer, and not just Kulaycon, away from Sinolawa and closer towards the border. In November of 2023, the Chapitos take another big hit when their security chief who goes by the name of El Nini is arrested. And the day after he's arrested, a top distributor for the Chapito. is gunned down in California. El Nini was just x-rayed a few weeks ago to the state, so if he talks, it'll, of course, lead to some more major issues for them, and we should get some really interesting information out of that, if he does, which I think he probably will.

But these arrests don't really seem to be doing anything to Chapito's overall operation. A Mexican defense analyst says, quote, the adjustments will be in the closest circle. I don't see another criminal group that could dispute their position of power, which is, you know, kind of crazy. I mean, that's where we're at. I think, you know, I'm not someone who is laser focused on the cartel wars, like our friend Louis or other reporters, but I definitely did not expect Chappos Aires to sort of be able to assert themselves and really be as strong as they are.

I figured once he died, the whole thing would split up. And the Sinaloa cartel has pretty much split up. It doesn't really exist anymore, you know, but Los Chapitos have emerged as powerful players. I guess you could kind of call them, although Amayo is around as well. It's split into different factions that do their own thing. But they're not the expected spoiled loser narco junior sons who screw everything up that I think a lot of people assume they were going to be. They've taken some hits, but they're still pumping out fentanyl and meth, much like a young Sean Williams on a Tuesday night in Berlin.

And that does it for this episode. There's the hat trick. I actually, I was thinking at you, there's another podcast. I forget what's called, but someone recommended it to me. And it's called, like, why my friends Phil and Steve didn't get into Berguine. so if you guys don't know, Bergen, it's like the biggest, probably the most famous club in the world at this point.

Yeah. But I was listening to it and it's kind of like, it's actually really interesting because it goes into the history of electronic, of techno and Detroit and East Berlin and West Berlin and these parties how it started, and then Bergen's history. But the whole time they're talking about

like how hard it is to get into all this stuff and I'm like, you know, my friends got in every time. But, you know. Man, a nerving turned away. Yeah, exactly. Because you got the look. I got that sunken day. pad-pallid, like disgusting complexion, yeah.

We should do an episode called Why Sean Always Gets into Burgine. All right, anyway, that's enough from us. Thank you guys, as always, Patreon. I don't know, man. Just keep listening if you do Patreon or if you don't. Give us a follow. Support us. Support our sponsors.

And have a great, great week. Some follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money. Whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion-dollar swings. There's a money side to every story. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe now at Bloomberg.com. Security program on spreadsheets, new regulations piling up, and audit dread? It's time for Vanta. Vanta automates security and compliance, brings evidence into one place and cuts audit prep by 82%. Less manual work, clear visibility, faster deals, zero chaos. Call it compliance, or call it, compliance. Get it? Join the 15,000 companies using Vanta to prove trust.

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