The Underworld Podcast - The Last Don: The Godfather Who Turned Rat

Episode Date: July 7, 2026

In 1992, the New York Mafia is falling apart. The Gambinos are in chaos, the Colombos are at war, the Genoveses are hiding behind Chin Gigante’s bathrobe act, and the Bonannos—the forgotten, disgraced family left for dead after the Donnie Brasco disaster—are waiting on one man: Joey Massino. Known as “The Last Don,” Massino quietly rebuilds the Bonanno family into the most powerful mob outfit in America, using paranoia, discipline, and an almost supernatural instinct for survival. Then, after a lifetime preaching silence and loyalty, he does the one thing no Five Families boss had ever done before: he flips. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the I Can't Sleep Podcast with Benjamin Boster. If you're tired of sleepless nights, you'll love the I Can't Sleep podcast. I help quiet your mind by reading random articles from across the web to bore you to sleep with my soothing voice. Each episode provides enough interesting content to hold your attention, and then your mind lets you drift off. Find it wherever you get your podcasts. That's I Can't Sleep with Benjamin Boster. If you sold somebody a loaded gun who you knew was in a vulnerable state and they shot themselves, I think it is murder.

Just because you're using the internet doesn't mean you get away with murder. I'm Damon Fairless, host of Hunting Warhead. This season, I take you inside the business of suicide, and the places desperate people go when they can't find what they need in the real world. Hunting the Suicide Salesman. Available now wherever you get your podcasts. 1992, New York City. The crack wars are reaching their zenith.

The murder rate has been setting records the last few years, and the city is a wash in violence and drugs and crime. And most of the five mafia families that rule New York City's underworld are not doing well. Seven years earlier, the bosses of four of the five families are indicted in the historic mafia commission trial, by the feds after prosecutor Rudolph Giuliani declares war on them.

Bosses all make succession plans to turn over their families to the next generation so that the show can go on when they eventually end up in prison. Well, except for the boss of the Gambinos, who was taken out by his own family before he can even get to prison. Now, years later in 1992, let's just say the next generation of mob leaders

are not exactly doing a great job. In the Lucchese's, friend of the pod, Anthony Gaspbipasso has led his family into internal destruction and is now on the land from law enforcement. In the Colombo family, a rebel faction led by the acting boss is going to war with the imprisoned actual boss, kicking off the so-called Third Colombo war. Mobsters are getting gunned down left and right as former friends and partners turn on each other.

Things are also going quite poorly in the Gambino family, where boss man and usurper of the throne John Gotti is going to trial, his underboss serving as a witness against him, as he pretty much runs his family, once New York's strongest, into the ground. And the legendary boss of the Genovese family, Chinjigante, he's walking around the village in his bathrobe, shuffling back and forth to courtrooms and nut houses, pretending to be insane to beat his cases. While all this is going on,

the forgotten Bonano family is preparing for the release from prison of their boss, Joey Messino, the so-called Last Dawn. You see, the Bonano family had already been left for dead by the feds, and everyone else, even before the commission trial. After decades of internal conflict, and an FBI undercover fiasco, memorialized in the Hollywood blockbuster Johnny Brosco, the Bonanno family was not only kicked off the mafia commission

that rules the underworld, but also left alone by investigators who already assumed that family was dead in the water and no threat to the public. But Joey Messino may just have what it takes to bring it back. The 49-year-old is very respected, not only in his own family, but across the mafia world, a place he's been a major player for the last 15 or so years.

High-level stuff. Now he's set to be released from prison at a pretty fortuitous time for a mafia dog. Under the radar, ignored by your rivals and by law enforcement, who are all heavily focused on each other. Over the next five years, Massino will rebuild the Bonano family, long regarded as the red-headed stepchild in New York City's organized crime world, into the most powerful family and himself into the most powerful mobster in the country. He'll take the Bonano family from being kicked off the mafia commission to ruling the commission.

And eventually, he'll shock the entire underworld by doing something no boss has ever done before. This is the Underworld podcast. Welcome back to the Underworld podcast, the only international organized crime podcast that dares to ask the question, the mafia. What's up with that? We are two journalists who have traveled all over the world reporting on this sort of stuff. And now every week, we bring you a new story of international organized crime, hundreds of episodes touching every country in the world pretty much, every gang, every mafia, and everything else. So if you don't like this one, just go back, you know, you'll find one that you dig. I am Danny Gold.

I am usually joined by Sean Williams, but he is not here. He's actually in Cuba, seeing a man about a horse or some such thing. Actually, if I was the Cuban authorities, the last time a cute little writer from Argentina showed up, things got a little hectic there. So maybe keep an eye on that guy. I don't know. Can we joke about that? Does the regime have a sense of humor?

I guess there's really only one way to find out. Isn't there, Dale? I'm guessing no, but hopefully Sean can disguise himself well enough. he'll figure it out. So of course, as you're seeing right now, instead of Sean, I am joined by handsome man and podcast editor extraordinaire, our editor, Dale Isinger, who not only edits this show and now others, I think, write a bunch of others, but also makes all the music for the shows and the shorts. He made the theme song. I mean, Dale, what else can you do? What can't you do? What can't I do? I can't manage my finances very well. I can't make good career decisions, obviously. I can't establish

healthy boundaries, you know, I'm just that kind of mess. Also, no, like Danny has notes here to introduce me. I've known him for almost 20 years and he's got my name misspelled in here. That's a typo. Very rich, given he owes me money today, but you know what? We'll leave that. Okay, okay. I don't owe you money.

Underworld LLC owes you money and it was a day and a half late and you got paid. So don't want to get an all up to you once we put you on camera. You know what? Now I'm the talent. I can do this sort of thing. We also look like either the worst ex-dealers in Miami or the worst band ever, right?

And it's just this one-two combo. We look like a cover band in like a Key West Beach Bar. That will also sell you cocaine. Yeah, bumfarto, you know? Yeah, yeah, basically. As always, bonus episodes at patreon.com, session world podcast

or on Spotify or iTunes, underworldpod.com for the t-shirts. Get a few for your pals, for your buds, and the Underworld Podcast at gmail.com for ads, add inquiries, compliments, if you want to send us stuff, story ideas, all that. Major correction from two weeks ago, I said the triads founding story reminding me of the beginning of Liquid Swords, which is moronic because the whole time the little kid narrator

is mentioning like samurai, the shogun, ninjas. It's clearly Japan and not China, just, you know, holes in my brain. And unlike the absentee Sean Williams, I'm not racist against agents. I know the difference between the various cultures. So my bad on that one. It's hilarious to me that even a correction for the show comes with like an attack on Sean, who given he's not here to defend himself is probably as racist as you're describing. We may never know because he could be in Guantanamo right now, honestly. He would lead into that and I wrote this episode thinking it was going to be him. So there are a lot of other attacks on him that he can't defend himself on.

But, you know, he'll get me back next week, I'm sure if he makes it out of Cuba. He rarely defends himself as it is. Yeah, that's true. He usually leans into it, which is, you know, good for the bit. But let's get into it. Chuches, Joe Massino is born in the working class neighborhood of Maspith Queens in 1943. Now, Dale, you actually know Masspith.

It's only a few blocks away from that strip club Sean was kicked out of and then we had to hang in the parking lot with that guy who kept saying he was on the run from being wanted in Canada. You might have gone home already by that point. But that's the location. If you continue down like eight more blocks, that's where you hit Maspith. Why can't you name it? It's pumps. We've got pubs.

They haven't sponsored us. So I'm not going to give them free publicity. And they were very mean to Sean, very mean. They've been very mean to a few of our friends. That's true. Deservently. Masspeath is basically a neighborhood that's a whole loading dock. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, Joey has two brothers and his dad is a fruit vendor, which is very 1940s, 1950s queen's upbringing. He drops out of high school his sophomore year and gets a job at a catering company owned by his friend's uncle. His friend's uncle happens to be Philip Rusty Ristelli, who takes a liking to young Joey, and Ristelli, who also grew up as Matt,

mass paid is a copo in the banana crime family, which is one of the five families of New York City. The bananas at that point, the smallest of the five families, but still highly organized, and although not as powerful as big as the Genovases or the Gambinos, still major players in the organized crime scene in New York. In 1960, he marries a woman, Josephine Vitale, is the last we'll hear of her, a girl from the neighborhood and becomes fast friends with her brother, Sal. In 1966, Westelie starts the workman's mobile lunch association, which is basically he takes control of all the food card and snack trucks and mostly Brooklyn, Queens, and Nassau County, Long Island.

I think it was like coffee and sandwiches, no halal guys back then, but just the kind of places that you put under, like outside of work, like a manufacturing place or construction site, things like that. They still have those. They sell drinks. They sell like sandwiches, candies, terrible stuff. Apparently back then, they dubbed them roach coaches, which is pretty gross. So Ristelli and his goons do exactly what do you think they would do.

They demand protection money from the operators at these cars. You know, your classic extortion scheme tried and true method the world over. The cart operators would then get a designated route and protection from the other people looking to extort them. Restelli also controls the depot where these guys buy their supplies and their food and all that and would force him to buy his stuff, their stuff through his association, so he's making money like hand over fist with this. Joey Messino starts operating one of these trucks.

He uses it as a base of operations to run money lending and illegal gambling for Ristelli. Messino also gets high in his own supply because he balloons up to 250 pounds at only 5 foot 9. An FBI agent will later remark that he ate too many of his own sandwiches and donuts, which is the funny thing for an FBI agent to point out. I think it was time for him to seriously consider salads, and he eventually earns the nickname Fat Joey, which is just a tried, you know, tried and true mobster classic. I think the only better one is Fat Tony, you know, just fold up the tongue a little better.

Fat Joey is like number one. Or as you can see my display name here, Fat Dale. Yeah. Is that you're going to use that up there? That's pretty solid. I'm just going to keep that for my for my next meetings as well. We'll see how it goes down. For your other podcast. Now, while Messina was kind of fattening himself up in Hawking Sandwiches, something much greater is happening in the hierarchy of not only the Bonano family, but the entire mob in New York. I think we've talked about this before in previous episodes,

but a quick refresher, Joe Bonano, head of the family, was the top boss in the country. But in 1962, his closest ally on the commission, Joe Profacci, another five-family boss dies of cancer. This leaves Bonano as the only original five-family founding boss still on the game. Do we have to... The commission, right? I think we have to explain that. Do you know what that is?

What is this? Like, Mops or Board of Directors? Sorry, I don't pay attention to this show at all. It is the Mops of Border Director. It's when New York divides itself. I think in the 30s, I should really know this by heart by now. 30s or 40s divides itself into five families at overseas specific areas, and each of the families has a boss who sits on the commission,

where everything is decided so they won't go to war with each other, go to war themselves, and they can kind of like essentially, yeah, have a board of directors that decides who gets what, you know, hits have to be sanctioned, everything basically like that. And it's, you know, this essentially creates the New York Mafia as we know it. So Prafachi is, is Bonano's buddy on it. He dies and his death suddenly shifts the power in the commission to the duo of Tommy Lucchese and Carl Gambino. Again, Lucchese family, Gambino family, that's what they're name is. after who are so closely aligned that Gambino's son marries Lucchase's daughter.

I know there's a lot of names here, boys, but there are like the names, you know, so we're going to keep them in. Further weakening Bonano's position is that his cousin and the boss of the powerful Buffalo Crime family is annoyed at Bonano for trying to grow his family in Toronto. He was looking to expand, which the cousin views as his backyard. So Bonano kind of, you know, is on the outs. He tries to make some moves. He tries to install Parfachi's underboss as the new head of the Parfachi family.

But Gambino and Lucchese block him on the commission. So Bonano responds by planning to take out the Lucchese and Gambino bosses with the rejected Prafachi underboss so he can take over, which is an insane move, right? It's a war on the bosses. The five families in the commission basically going to war with each other, which is exactly what the commission was established to prevent from happening. They give the hit contracts to the Pravachi captain, Joe Colombo, another famous mafia. Again, I know a lot of names. but that little rascal, he turns around and rats them out to the commission. So the commission calls a meeting where Bonano and the Pravacchi Underboss are summoned.

Pravachi Underboss shows up and confesses to the crimes. He gets banished and exiled. Bonano does not show up. He tells his son, who's his consigliary, that he's now in charge of the New York operations, and he goes on the lamp. He also kind of does it in part to duck an indictment. The entire commission turns against Bonano. Of course, he was going to kill them.

Colombo was appointed the head of Pravachi family, The Genovaci family sides with Lou Cases and the Gambinos, thinking that if one mob boss defies the commission, well, the mob basically sees it to exist and they can't have that. Not only that, but during his disappearance, the commission starts to rally Bonano old timers against the son and his allies because they aren't exactly pleased that this kind of nepo baby son is a point that's the family leader. And this kind of like hangs over the Bonanos forever, right? I kind of remember that the other families think they're unstable and embarrassing and bad for business. Yeah, for decades. which is why Joey Messina, what he does is such a sort of big turnaround and really impressive thing. So you guys are we following this here, basically, Bonano family of which Joey Messina is an underling

and his boss, Rostelli, a bit more of a player, they're falling apart. Yes, I'm spiritually aligned with this. Now, Rostelli, the man who Messina hooked his young Mafic career too, he sides with the insurgents who are backed by the commission against the Bonano loyalist and the Bonano son. In early 1969, an assassination attempt is made on Bonano's son under the allure of a peace deal, but he survives, and the media dubs the Bonano family war, the Banana Wars or Banana Wars, because it's bananas. It's just crazy. This Mafia family tearing itself apart. In May 1966, Bonano appears at a federal courthouse in Manhattan to deal with the indictment he had ducked years prior, telling the courthouse that he was actually just kidnapped for two years, which, you know, he wasn't. Within the mafia stuff with the other families, he basically concedes defeat. He accepts exile. the commission decides to give him a pass because he's a founding father in a sense and promises to never get involved. He promises never to get involved

in mob business again. He and his sons and a couple of loyalists moved to Arizona, which, you know, Elvis country. I was kidnapped for two years is so good. I'm going to use that all the time. You know, why don't you pay your taxes?

You know, anything. It's really good. It is also crazy that they let him go without him and the underboss. They just didn't kill them. They just let them off the hook, which is a pretty wild thing. I mean, they were not known for being merciful, especially in this period.

So did they just, they just thought they were kidnapped for two years? They just took him out their word? No, no, they knew he wasn't. And they knew he wanted to make a move against them. They were just in a guessing a forgiving mooder. They respected the fact that he was one of the original founders of the commission and led him off the hook with being sent to Arizona, which, you know, some people think is worse than death. Yeah. A new boss is named and the kind of Banana Wars fizzle out, but not before Joey Messino does his first murder.

He's asked by a Colombo Crime Associate to help him out, take out a Bonano family associate over a personal dispute. It is an unsanctioned hit, which is a big deal to do. But in 1969, Massino commits his first murder. It's under the radar, though. It's not supposed to happen. And Ristelli, he asked Massino, who is his protege about the murder. Messino denies knowing anything. So yeah, the Banana Wars kind of work out a bit for Massino because not only does he get away with this murder,

but his mentor by picking the right side is also moving up the Bonano family hierarchy. and becoming more powerful. And it pays off for Ristelli when he's named street boss in 1971. A few years later, the actual boss dies. And in 1974, the commission officially names Restelli

as the official boss. So, I mean, if you're joined with Sino, this is like right where you want to be, right? Your mentor is literally boss of one of the five families after you've been working

out of a food truck for like 10 or 15 years. And this is kind of how he, he forms his MO, right? He's like keeping quiet, denying shit, staying useful, and letting everyone else

around and be like louder than he is just kind of yeah hiding in the shadows yeah sharp guy very guys we're going to find out the 1970s are also the golden age of hijackings in new york city i'm talking truck hijackings though i think it was also the golden age of of airplane hijackings too there's a good book about that um come on i mean you guys have seen good fellows you know about the truck hijacking there's like five or six major hijackings a week massino's up there with the best in the game by the mid-1970s he's known by the feds as somewhat of a hijack king basically Based on informant tips, the Fed suspect Messino's involvement in some really big heist. We're talking $2 million with a Kodak film, $500,000 cargoes with a clothing headed to Sacks Fifth Avenue, $100,000 with a coffee.

And these are early 1970s numbers, so big, big money. It's also really interesting how they just stole all these different products and figured out how to move them. You know, like, where do you go with $100,000 worth of coffee? $500,000 with a clothing, maybe you sell it out, but like Kodak film, you know, who are you selling it. I guess corrupt stores. Maybe they're shipping it over to to TJ Max or B&H. I don't even know. But it's, that element of it, I think, is really fascinating, working out that part of the business. Because hijacking itself is not complicated, right? You block a

truck, you stick a gun in the driver's face, take their stuff. But Messino likes to hijack by working out beforehand with the truck drivers who they would either pay off or they would have gambling debts to the mob they needed paying off, sort of like my offers the Cal She for podcast ads, which is, you know, not coming through, but it's a very Jimmy the Gent sort of move that he does. He works it out. But the key to Massino's success is that when you hijack a truck,

you need to find a warehouse to get rid of the load before the cops get to you. Because again, like I said, you got to move a lot of product. You can't just instantly sell the stuff. So you drive the truck to a concealed warehouse, break it up into vans and go on your way. Messino has a network of concealed warehouses, especially in the industrial section of Masbith, which is his home base, which, as Dale pointed out,

is known for basically just being loading docks everywhere. I think nightclubs now too and stuff like that. At least the one nightclub, you know. There's a couple I feel like over there, right? Is that even considered Massa bit though? All I see is pumps. That's all I'm saying. Messino also

has an excellent network of fences, the people who move the stolen goods. Because of his networks, he starts offering his services to other hijacking crews, becoming a middle man and somewhat of a clearinghouse for stolen goods. Messino even becomes pals with another up-and-coming mafia hijacker by the name of John Gotti. And they soon become neighbors when he and his family move

to Gotti's neighborhood of Howard Beach Queens. And just a little bit on Massino's personality. There's a quote from the five families book by Salman Rob, which we rehearse all the time when doing American mob stories and is one of the main sources for this. Quote, over a 30-year span, every agent and prosecutor who matched with Joe Massino was impressed by his disarming politeness and photographic memory. And like many Mafiae, he never snarled defiantly at lawmen When arrested, interrogated, or put on trial, Messina was soft-spoken, unruffled, often jovial. His retention of details was awesome.

Years after agents questioned him, he recalled their names and even the license plate numbers of the unmarked cars in which they trailed him. A lawyer who represented Messino was impressed by his grasp of compacts legal issues and his recall of numerous points discussed weeks earlier. Whenever he went in the underworld and upper world, he generated respect.

He genuinely sounds like a sociopath to me, just kind of like modifying his personality for whatever situation is appropriate, killing people, like the first killing he does, sort of no one tells him to do that, you know? And then he's just like, he's a Ted Bundy type to me, you know, a little crazy. It sounds like, he does seem a lot better than a lot of these other guys that are operating in that period who are like just psychopaths who can't even like maintain a conversation, you know, I'm just violent with everyone.

What do you mean better? He seems like in terms of like his personality. He's jovial. People enjoy hanging out with him. He's not killing. He's not killing everyone left. right? Not yet.

He can get that rep? Not yet. Not yet. But he is clearly a very bright guy, well liked, even by law enforcement and beloved by other mob guys, especially in the Bonano family, which, you know, it's not the usual case for mobsters. They're not usually Mr. Congeniality. Usually these guys are pretty gruff guys, right?

Pretty rough figures, as we've seen in other episodes. But yes, he is still a savage killer, but a joyful one, right? This quote from a cop about an informer named Ray kind of echoes that about Massino. Ray was a monster, a psycho, not afraid of anything, that he was scared to death of Joey for good reasons. Messino seemed very gregarious. He could talk a dog off a meat wagon, only he would then kill the dog, which is an incredible way to describe someone and kind of lends itself to your point, no?

Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, the psychos are afraid of him. Who are the only people scarier than psychos, sociopaths? But I also want to say that Danny and I are anti-dog killing, for the record. Sean might be pro-dog killing. and we might never know. You have, like, what, three rescues right now? Two rescues?

I have two. Put him on camera right now. It's really hot. They're knocked out. It's so hot, dude. Messino does his second mob hit, his first official one in 1976, when he takes out a lone shark cigarette smuggler

who owed him 9K and wasn't paying. Another mob hit Messino does in this time period is for the future Gambino boss, Paul Costlano, where he helps John Gotti take out Costalano's daughter's boyfriend, a Gambino family associate for insulting the future Don. Apparently, he said Casano looked like Frank Perdue, the chicken guy, although Sam of the Bull, later says it was because the guy was trying to extort his daughter

for like $2,000 because he had a blackmail video of her, presumably doing something sexual, which is an insane thing to do to a guy who's like super high up in the mafia. You're basically asking for it at that point. In 1976, Ristelli, the boss of the family, is sent to prison for 10 years for extortion and antitrust violations. Messino, who had become a maid member in 1977, then becomes his official messenger, relaying his orders from prison to the rest of the Bonano troops.

But Ristelli's prison sentence is only one of the issues facing him, because the other concern is Carmine Galante. Galante had just gotten out of prison after serving 12 years at a 20-year sentence for drug trafficking. Before Galante went to prison, he was a major player not only in the Bonano family, but also in the American mob in general. He was not only Joe Bonano's Consolieri, an official underboss, unofficial underboss before he went to jail, prison, but he was also the American mob's

main point person for importing heroin from Sicilian mobsters. He was actually in Palermo in 1957 with Bonano as his main advisor to negotiate with the Sicilians, which is, you know, we've talked about the French connection a million times, they've gone to details about it plenty. You guys know it by now.

Got a little Dale lawyer here. This always cracks me up. The movie is a French connection. My Nana stopped going to going to movie theaters from 1971 until she died last year because she thought the French connection had too much profanity in it. She was like, I'm not doing this anymore. This is good. We do need more Dale Lorre. What would you think about you hosting this podcast now?

Would you be very upset about it? I mean, our language isn't that bad, but the topics. I think near the end of her death, she was more open to such. She joined the mafia? It would be amazing trafficking quilts. In Toronto, every arrival is a statement, and nothing says it better than this. Cadillac Optic was the number one selling luxury EV in Canada for 2025. Find your rhythm across a seamless 33-inch display and an immersive 19-speaker AKG surround audio system.

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On this season of drilled, Carbon Cowboys, the story of three market solutions colliding in one multinational boondoggle. You've got to get Bruce of the guy's credit. They're Republican kids. They don't get a lot. Listen anywhere you get podcasts. This Galante is a mafia heavyweight. And when he gets out of prison in 1974, he expects to be named boss. And he views himself as Joe Bonano's rightful heir. But it doesn't go that way because Ristelli takes over as boss.

And obviously, Galante does not love that. He's not happy. And he is a killer, rumored to have been involved in between 80 to 100 murders. Now, with Ristelli locked up, Galante sees an opening and starts making moves to basically take over the family. First, he steps up his drug deals with the Sicilians trying to up his money flow. He also designates himself as the rent collector, the sole American mob guy, entitled to franchise fees from Sicilians operating inside the U.S. And he refuses to share this money with the other families. He also imports a bunch of Sicilian mob guys to strengthen his ranks and serve as his bodyguards.

He then infuriates the other mob bosses of the other families by muscling in on their narcotics business, especially the Gambinos, who Galante thinks stole his business when he was in prison. Galante also does unsanctioned mob hits and basically tells the commission to fuck off, also telling everyone that he's on his way to becoming the boss of bosses.

So it's a very, very Richie Aprio type of character, Dale, if you can follow that. Absolutely. This is in like the mid to late 70s and in 1979, Galante learns of Messino's

trips to jail, to prison, I keep saying jail, prison, to visit Restellian summons him for a meeting. Galante orders him to stop seeing Restellian cut him off, but Massino replies,

quote, it's like my uncle. He raised me, he baptized me, I can't abandon him. And we know this because Messino relayed the conversation to his brother-in-law Sal, his closest confident in someone who himself is also working his way up in the Bonano family. Messino also admits to his brother-in-law Sal that he fears Galante, who is a legendary psycho.

So kind of the moderate psychos fear the sociopaths who fear the legendary psychos, basically is how the chain of things work. The latter of antisocial personalities. Yes, yes. He fears that he might have him taken out. But before that can take place where Steli has Massino deliver a quest to the commission. He wants them to okay a hit on Galante. In the commission, they're pretty receptive for the idea of taking him out, since he's been ignoring them and encroaching on their businesses and also telling people he's going to be the boss of bosses.

And on July 12, 1979, Galante is gunned down on the patio of an Italian restaurant by three men in ski masks. Two of his most trusted bodyguards are there, but they kind of turn on him. And it's one of the most famous mob hits out there, I think. If you look at there's a famous photo of it, he's in a pile of blood and has a cigar in his mouth. Messino was actually nearby something of a plan B in case something went wrong. That photo is crazy. He died as he lived, smoking a cigar at a restaurant. But also, you could see he's wearing a pinky ring.

It's so boss. It's so boss. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, these guys, you know, they look the part. They were the part. With taking out Galante, Ristelli cements his role as boss, but he is still locked up. He immediately elevates Massino to Capo

and appoints a different old-timer Capo's acting boss, but it's understood by everyone in the family that Messino is actually the guy. It's not a bad rise for the 46-year-old Messino from the 1960s version of a halal truck guy to Mafia Powerhouse

in like a decade and a half. I thought you said there was no halal, man. You've got to get your story straight here. There wasn't, but it's like I'm using a modern-day reference point for everyone to understand what this was. Although I feel like it's not that complicated he worked out of a food truck,

he sold sandwiches. like it's not that complicated. I don't have to paint the picture. You know what I'm saying? I just like the idea for some reason. I'm calling him a halal guy. It's a specific thing. Yes, yes.

Alas, the peace in the Bonanno family does not last long as it never does. By early 1981, a rebel faction, led by three capos who are not happy with the leadership of the family and especially not happy with Ristelli being an absentee boss, start causing chaos. So you've got the three Kapo rebels on one side,

the Rasteli loyalist on the other side, led by Jopoeleli, Joe Massino, and then you got a bunch of the family in the middle waiting to see how it plays out. The commission warns the two feuding parties to avoid bloodshed and work out their problems, fearing that renewed violence is bad for mafia business, which it is. So the feuding sides, they have a couple of high-level meetings and sit-downs, you know, meetings of the minds of the mind that try to work out their problems. Behind the scenes, though, the other mafia families are backing different sides of the dispute. Joey Messino and his faction are getting backing from the Colombo's and the Gambinos,

while the sneaky Genovases are backing the insurgents. But you can kind of see, like, even with the commission and all this sort of stuff, these guys are constantly backstabbing each other. They're constantly fighting over power. It's just, you know, all that mafia unity, all that stuff is just complete and utter nonsense. And this story, as we'll find out if you guys don't know, what happens to Massino, what he does, is like the epitome of how all that honor code, code of silence, Omar's stuff, is just complete nonsense, which is something we brought up, not just with the mafia, but a lot of guys. gangs and cartels and organized cries, I think, repeatedly on this show. In the spring of 19801, a Colombo soldier who is friends with Massino brings in the news that the other faction is loading up on weapons and preparing to take them out, which is just

you know, mafia stuff in old New York, man. Even in the 80s, it was just wild, like legit, just going to war, rooms full of guns, loading up to go do hits, just crazy stuff. So Massino turns to his pals on the commission that Gabino and the Colombo bosses, they tell him to do what needs to be done, basically giving him permission to just go Buck Wild. So there's also a bunch of native Sicilians in the family. They're a big faction that are not aligned with anyone yet.

Messino is able to get them on his side. And the leader of the Sicilians has spent time in Montreal before and is tight with the Rizuto family, which at that point is the biggest prime family and mafia in Canada. We've done a Rizuto family episode a while back. It's great if you haven't heard it. They were like the six family of the New York mob at this point, but they end up growing much, much bigger and going international to a degree that these guys pretty much don't. Anyway, the Bonano, New York Sicilians get the Rositos to send them some shooters from Montreal,

including Vito Rizudo, who's the son of the current boss at that time in the future Donna Canada, and eventually one of those powerful mobsters, not just in Canada, but in the entire role. But for right now, he's a shooter. So the plane is hatched, and if you've seen Donnie Brasco, you know about this, right? Major plot point. One of Messino's guys actually recommends Donnie Brasco to participate in the hit, wanting him to play a big role from the Five Families book, quote, Messino instantly veto the suggestion.

Presently, he had earlier advised his crew members to stay clear of Brasco, forbidding them to even sit at the same table with him at weddings and social gatherings. He might be bad, said the suspicious Messino, which the guy was sharp. I mean, that's pretty good foresight by Messino because a lot of other guys didn't think so. I recently watched Donny Brasco, and I got to the end and I was like, so he's just an arc? Yeah, yeah, he's an arc. Why do people think he's so cool? Like mostly the mafia movies, everyone's like, oh, the godfather, he's so cool.

But like Donnie Brasco is not cool, dude. He had great outfits. But he's not cool. He's a narc, man. Yeah, but he brought that. I mean, this is the mob were not nice people during this situation. You know, this is like the brutal 70s, 80s mafia. And it kind of, what I like about the movie, it really shows the reality of these guys like scrounging for cash, knocking over parking meters.

It's like it doesn't really glamorize it, I would say. Yeah, that's true. a lot of other mafia movies have done. They're all losers, yeah. Yeah, they don't look that cool. So a sit-down is scheduled in an after-hour spot owned by the Gambino family, a neutral site on May 5th, 1981. The three rebel capos and two neutrals arrive,

and suddenly four men in ski masks, three Canadians and Messino's brother-in-law, Sal, jump out of the closet and start shooting. They kill all three capos. Immediately afterwards, like immediately, the Sicilians from Canada go back to Canada, and different goons who are waiting outside as back. backup shooters come in to deal with the mess and dispose of the bodies.

So things are looking up and up for the bananas at this point, right? Stability returns. All their problems are gone and they can get rich and get back to business. Except, of course, you know, the whole Donnie Brasco thing, which in the summer of 1981, the undercover agent just blows it wide open. Saying things are on the up and up after a triple murder is pretty funny. I mean, for that, for their, you know, for a casino, you know, clearing out, clearing the bad guys, but you're right.

It's, like I said, brutal, brutal times. The head of Donnie's crew, who basically brought him in is kill with Messino ordering the execution. Messino also orders the execution of a couple other people who would help bring Donnie Brasco around. It's messy. It's bad for the family. But, again, Silverlining, Messino also cements himself as the boss man with it, right? He took out the three rebel capos, a couple other high-ranking guys who brought in Brasco. So he's at the top without much company.

But the commission with all the messiness, civil war. under cover agent, they basically kick out the bananas from the five families. But Massino, fully in control, also transitions into being more of a big-time raceteer and away from the hijacking business, which have become too dangerous and just turned to a crap business. You know, it's no place for an old man, 40s, 50s, that sort of thing. 50s, I think now. Hijacking is a young man's game.

That's what they say. It's skateboarding or journalism. It's too bad podcasts weren't around then. It's a pretty seamless off ramp from any failed career. Just look at us. Pretty much, pretty much. In March of 1982, Messino learns that he's going to be indicted for several charges related to the

Brasco fallout, where indictments are flying around left and right, because obviously the guy was undercover for a couple years. So he decides to go on the lamb. He goes to the vacation home of parents of a young Bonano family associate in rural Pennsylvania, the Poconos a couple hours outside the city. Maybe it was beautiful Mount Airy Lodge. Maybe it wasn't.

Who is to know? In July of 1982, he's hit with a RICO charge for being a conspirator, but not an actual participant in the three coppous murders. He's hiding out for a while, and a year after he goes on the lamb, Ristelli, the official boss of the family gets out on parole. But even when he gets out, Mascino is still acting as essentially the head of the family. Ristelli seemingly doesn't mind that his project is now basically running the show. Again, he's really old now. Apparently, he's just tired of the life and is happy to take a back seat. Masino finally returns to New York in July of 1984 to surrender.

So a good 28 months hiding out, which is crazy. Must be bored out of his mind. Didn't even have reels to scroll for like seven hours a day. Just a New York Italian, you know, stuck in the woods, Poconos, probably not much going on, lots of deer. I don't know. In that time, his lawyers had had time to study the court proceedings of a bunch of other Bonano family members who had been indicted in those cases.

And his lawyers basically study the cases and reckon the evidence is weak. So Massino goes back, after figuring this out, makes bail, and a year later, he's indicted on some more charges, this time with Rostelli on union racketeering and extortion. Then shortly after that,

he gets hit with an additional charge, and this one is conspiracy to commit murder for one of the earlier mob hits. Macino makes bail again, this time a $1 million bail. And he goes to trial in the spring of 1986, great time for the Mets, for the union case and gets convicted,

though he beats a murder charge. says the five families book, quote, patting itself on the back, the FBI looked with pride of the convictions of the Bonano's upper crust. The boss, Rostelli, and Messino, who had officially been appointed underboss, were behind bars. And the Bureau classified the Bono family as crippled and of dwindling importance. Supervisors and agents prepared to move on to larger mob priorities throughout the late 1980s and early 1990s. In prison, Messino keeps on running the family through his brother-in-law Sal, who he promotes the capo. Ristelli, who had been sick for a while, dies in 1991 and Massino

officially becomes the boss of the Bonano family. He gives Sal a bunch of basic new instructions. No new made members of promoted capos without his consent. No soldiers could be transferred to different crews. Also tells him never to show any weaknesses to their families and defend yourself at all cost.

And that he should buddy up to Gotti who would become the boss of the Gambino family after killing Polly Castellano. And remember, have been a good friend of his. When Massino finally gets out of prison in 1992, the banana family is actually in decent shape compared to most of its rivals, as we discussed in the cold open. Giuliani had gone after the other four families and pretty much decimated them. And the bananas have been kicked out of the commission, basically left for dead after the Civil War and the Donny Brasco events, right?

So you've got Massino, he's only 49, fresh out of prison, and he's finding New York a lot more wide open than it's been in some time. He also used his time in prison to study the RICO cases that had brought down the other big bosses, learning what mistakes to avoid. right when he gets out of prison, he orders the shutdown of like their little social clubs, you know, when he realizes they were a gold mine for surveillance. See, this is exactly what prison is for,

continuing higher education, adult literacy, and of course converting to Islam. This is where he could be halal. Yeah, and studying what not to do from, actually that's a smart, I don't know people do that,

studying what not to do from other criminals who do what you do, which is like a genius, he got a lot of free time. You might as well pour through federal cases. Another thing he does is he insulates himself. He decentralized the family structure. He's got a tight crew of Capos that each oversee a major racket without knowledge of the others

and report indirectly to him. He tries to tightly restrict the flow of information to Capos on a need-to-know basis. The Capos report directly to Sal, who he elevates as his underboss. Also, because he's on parole for the next two years anyway, he's not supposed to associate with no-in-wise guys. And since Sal had actually never been convicted of a mob crime and his family, he thinks he's the best bet for Messenger. The coppers also pay their money owed to Massino through Sal. For added security, he takes a play from Vincent the Chinjigante, Genevacy boss, and tells

his family that you can't say his name and only points your ear when you want to refer to him. This is like how people fear to say my name. They just point to their crot. It's so bad. So bad. You're really like, you're really falling into Sean's role here very, very well. Just the heel, the total. Just the terrible jokes. Not the heel. I mean, my jokes aren't much better. But so, Massino, like, becomes this really careful guy, right?

He doesn't even meet, he doesn't think that meeting with other families and having joint businesses. It's too much exposure. He bans most of the joint projects for their families. He pulls one cop off a major mob committee dealing with unions and construction jobs. And as another cop, a walk away from the gas tax scam, which we've talked about before.

It's one of the biggest mob moneymakers ever. So that's how serious he is about, like, keeping things secure and within the family and being close. cautious. Like, he's really meticulous, really careful about trying not to give the feds anything. He also does things like set new strict rules for guys being made. He pressures capos to have their sons become made and join their crews, thinking that, you know, they're more familiar with a mob life and families will be more loyal. He even tells the family to stop referring to themselves as the Bonano family because Joe Bonano had disgraced the family by his shenanigans, which include

writing an autobiography and giving TV interviews, which the feds actually kind of used in the commission trials. He wants them to be known as the Messino family now, which kind of makes no sense when you're the guy who doesn't want them saying his name at all, but then wants them to replace banana with Massino. So a little contradictory right there. At this point, he's basically trying to be the opposite of his former pal, John Gotti, who was all about headlines and just talking nonstop. He tells the brother-in-law Sal, quote, he broke every rule in the book. John destroyed this life. John set us back 100 years. And what he did to Pauli, I would never have done.

Messino also shuns going to any mafia social event. He won't go to wakes. He won't go to funnels, weddings, baptisms, nothing. He misses out on a lot of big Zidi. What, no fucking Zidi? There you go. See, that was good. Sean wanted to picked up on that.

She's not. Yeah. Nicely done. Nicely done. There we go. So into the mid-90s, with all these new rules and cautiousness, the bananas are quietly rebuilding, doing the usual mob brackets, but also getting to video poker machines, building up sports betting, stock stuff. Although Massino actually discontinues

taking baseball bets by the late 90s because Messino says that he's getting killed by the Yankees, which might be the smartest thing of mobster's ever done, just a hell of a roll run in the 90s. I mean, you had to be there. They were just fantastic. So Paul O'Neill did more damage to the mob than Giuliani. It's a toss-up. Julian did some damage of it, but Paul O'Neilley was just hidden dangers, baby. All the time. All the time. Mariano Rivera just decimated the mob, man. By In 1998, Massino has established himself as close to the preeminent mafia dawn of the era because the top administration of basically every other family is in jail or going to jail and the other families are just in a state of chaos.

All of Messino's counterintelligence strategies seem to be holding so far. And while the other families had turncoats left and right, no Bonano made member had flipped since Massino took the reins. The New York Times actually gets a hold of Messino on the phone around this time. They call him up on his show job of working as a caterer and in response to asking him if he's the boss of bananas, he replies, I don't believe there is such a thing as the mafia. A bunch of Italian guys out to eat and they say it's the mafia. This is so sick. Like incredible stuff here. Like the Times just calling him at work. Hello, may I speak to the Don? No, no, no. He's replacing the

sternocans right now. He's wearing it as a caterer. It's insane. It's so funny. I mean, it must have been nice back in the day, right? Just giving these guys a call after getting a number, people picking up the phone, no caller ID. Now we're just stuck DMing Dominican drug lords helping their respond or just watching organized crime members go on mouth breather podcast to indict themselves. Just what a world we're living in. Wait, are we a mouth breather podcast? Did you find a peptide that fixed your mouth breathing? We are not, I don't mouth breathe and we are not a mouth breather podcast, my friend.

We are for the sophisticated, intelligent listener, basically. But yeah, what he's saying to the New York Times reporter is that that's what you would call anti-Italian discrimination. Exactly, yes. Yes. Anyway, the press of the time, they start referring to him as the last dawn, which seems like a bit of an exaggerated superlative. You still had other dons out there, but not that far from the truth, really. It's 1999, 2000, and by then things have changed so much.

Fat Joey actually starts calling commission meetings, acting like he's the boss, a boss says remind you, this is what, 15 years, 20 years after they had been kicked off the commission. The FBI, though, is on to Messino by now, realizing that he's rebuilt the family when they weren't looking and that the bananas are now the most powerful family in New York old guys crime. And that not only are they doing the usual mop brackets, but they're innovating, doing stuff like getting involved in stock market scams. They start corrupting brokerages firms.

They're doing pumping dumps and all that jazz, you know, making sure their guys push whibistics. Webistics is the pick of the week. This is what I need you for. I can't count on Sean to pick up on this. He'll be like, oh, I think, is there a soprano's reference? in this episode, like, yeah, Sean, the entire episode is non-stop separat references. It's an American mafia story. What do you want me to do?

Not make constant surprise references? I'm watching football or cricket. Yeah, just make it. Throw a cricket reference later. We're talking about darts. Tough game for inland today, but they pulled through. So congrats on that, Sean. Yeah. Good for you. They were down late to Congo. Anyway, things get dicey when Messino orders the murder of one of the top Canadian

Sicilian guys he had been working with, the Rizzuto's main guy in New York, a former major ally. Mascino thought he was questioning his leadership too much and growing too independently powerful. And the relationship with the Rizudos actually begins to really strain around that time because the Rizudos were becoming way too powerful due to their involvement in major international drug trafficking schemes and were less interested in being some sort of like pygmy family to the bananas. Messino actually orders the murder to look like a drug deal gone bad to point away from the family because he's a little nervous of with them. In 2001, Massino sends word to Montreal with a proposal he thinks will bring the Montreal mob back into the fold.

He offers to make Vito Rizudo a captain in the Bonano family and the official head of the Montreal branch of the Bonano family, which is the Rizudos. Rizudo at this point, though, they have a big international profile. They have little interest in the Bono family in the streets of New York. He kind of politely declines, and this basically is the end of the New York-Montreal mob connection. The Rizudos have just grown so big, they don't really need them at this point. And then the feds start moving in. Rico cases against top copos. Some of the younger soldiers get involved in drugs and the DA moves in on them.

Some of them even start talking. But Messino's isolated cell style of leadership seems to hold. The lead federal prosecutor says that the case that the investigators quote, search and hope for evidence to entangle Massino but are unable to find a shred against him. The prosecutor also concludes by saying the other families were in mass confusion, but it looked as if Massino had shored up his internal structure. Messino, however, he's still not taking it easy. He starts leaving the country to go on vacation, usually Mexico, with his top capos and

their wives. And he thinks these vacation covers will work and he's confident the feds won't surveil them while they're abroad, which kind of makes me wonder why this wasn't tried before. Though I guess they did do it in Cuba, right? For big time meetings, right? Just leave the country. Head to Mexico or the D.R. Just Bermuda, even, you know?

It's such a good idea. And wives welcome at the extraction retreat, Ballroom B. especially keep the wives happy. Take him to Acapulco, take him to the DR. What a move. Why didn't they think of this ahead of time? But the feds don't back down. His brother-in-law, Sal, number two at that point,

he gets arrested in Long Island for a RICO charge, mostly loan sharking and money laundering. Sal pleads guilty. He gets around four years, but this investigation doesn't touch Messino either. Then in early 2002, a top Massino Coppo, and someone who is essentially the acting in Sigliari

gets arrested on a host of charges. But he pleads guilty, gets 11 years. Another goes down for a stock pump and dump. The top leadership is starting to crack as the feds pick them off one by one by one. On October 2002, the acting under boss and the other top capos, some already in prison, get another massive RICO indictment. Some are facing life, and they finally flip. And the only family that seemed like it actually had O'Mrtha starts breaking it.

Everyone is talking. And then right in the first week of January 2003, Massino gets arrested and hate with a sleep. of charges, including the Donny Brasco-related murder charge of the coppa who brought him in. Messino is at first pretty confident he can beat the case. The feds don't have a ton of evidence besides, you know, mafia turncoach, which usually aren't seen as the most reliable narrators. But then the final nail drops. His brother-in-law, Sal, who had been his number two for a while, knew everything.

He flips when he starts hearing that Massino was actually going to have him whacked, which he assumed maybe because he thought he might talk. And this is kind of the death now for Messino. because Sal was by aside for decades and knows everything. And after Sal flips, a bunch of other mafiosos flip as well. And now Massino faces seven murder charges up from the original one and a host of new charges. Like he's done. It is a rap.

He goes to trial in the summer of 2004 and is found guilty. And then, in a move that shocks the underworld and the feds, Massino himself, the boss of the family was some saying the most powerful boss in the five families at that time flips. he secretly records two jailhouse conversations with the person he appoints his underboss, right? His successor, basically. He had been potentially facing the death penalty. Instead, because of flipping, he only gets life.

And the feds cut his wife a financial break. They later keep, I think, a million dollars. But yeah, he becomes the first boss of one of the five families to turn government witness. That sucks because it's going to be devastating that the title of this podcast is first five families boss to flip.

But, you know, that's the legacy you leave, the wake of podcasts in your... Yeah, you just get bad mouth by a guy in a Hawaiian shirt and stupid sunglasses on a podcast for... That's what happens. If you snitch, that should be the warning to all of them. Quite a legacy. That title's terrible. We're going to have to... Maybe actually...

I don't know. I'll put that in the title term. We might... The first... That's actually not about it. We'll see what happens. And this is the thing about Joey Messina, right? He's not some low-level soldier caught on the drill.

drug case. He was the boss of the Bonano family, one of the five families of New York, like the most well-known, respected, giant legacy of organized crime in America. Close to the world. I guess maybe the Sicilian

coast and Ernestrian, maybe has a little bit more. A man who had built his entire life on silence and loyalty, the man so careful that for years, no one around him could say his name out loud. The last Don, the man who built back up the Bonano family. And then he sits down with the feds, gives up murders, gives up secrets, and even wears a wire on his, like,

young protege underling. Kind of a death nail, too, not just for him, but for the five families, right? It's not just the bananas. It goes back to something we've talked about a few times, a lot of times, how the whole Omerta loyalty thing, it's not just in the mob, but an organized crime in general. All this stuff is mostly bullshit. People in the life, they end up killing their friends just as much as their enemies, usually. They betray their family, their brother-in-laws, all that.

that sort of stuff. Just the reality of it, you know? So the epilogue is that in June of 2013, he's released as part of his deal. I think it was a compassionate release sort of thing. I think he was sick. But he lives the next 10 years in the witness protection program at a nice retirement community. And here it is for you. It's not a nursing home. It's a retirement community. There you go. But it's crazy. He ended up getting out, which is always weird to me too when like you have the ball, the guy at the top of the organization, he cuts a deal to get like the young, the little, isn't the whole, point you get the little guys to get the upper guys.

But I guess this wasn't him. I guess no, he did get out of it. He did get out of prison. So it's just always wild to me when that sort of works out when like you get the guy at the top and you cut him a deal to get the other guys. You know? I guess if you don't get that much time off and you actually bring down the rest of the organization, it's worth it. But it always struck

me as like a little little bit of a funny thing. Anyway, yeah. And there you have it. Remember, patreon.com, says the annual world podcast. Bonus stuff. Email us Underworldpod.com for t-shirts, an underworldpodcast at e-mail.com. And Dale, man, happy birthday.

Thanks for coming in. I'm glad the fans got to see, you know, who makes this work. And you're a handsome guy, great facial hair. And we're happy to have you, bud. Join us to come back anytime. I wish I had a choice. What do you think?

What do you think your rapport with Sean would be? Oh. Try that one episode. See what happens. we've done one before we just made up this I remember now we just made up this thing where you're obsessed with Drake

and we just kept referencing that was not funny at all it was not it was very funny to us it was very funny it was a terrible bit yeah sorry well you guys

work on a better one you know I guess yeah yeah yeah anyway thank you guys for tuning in Dale's the best go listen to his music aren't you in band

what's your band you want to sell your bands yeah we're called tiny gun we you know there's a whatever go go go find the tiny gun

from New York City, you know. All right. That's it. We're good.