The Unmade Podcast - 170: The Wrong Words

Episode Date: October 28, 2025

Tim and Brady discuss an upcoming music video, words that don’t work, a Brisbane spoon, and our new office spaces.Today’s Request Room is here - https://www.patreon.com/posts/142242910Support us on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/unmadeFMJoin the discussion of this episode on our subreddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/Unmade_Podcast/Catch the podcast on YouTube where we often include accompanying videos and pictures - https://www.youtube.com/@unmadepodcastUSEFUL LINKSNovember Rain - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SbUC-UaAxEBrisbane - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrisbanePictures of Spoon of the Week - https://www.unmade.fm/spoon-of-the-weekSome pictures from this episode including offices - https://www.unmade.fm/episode-170-picturesCatch the bonus Request Room episode - https://www.patreon.com/posts/142242910

It's good to see you, man. I don't say it often enough. Is it? Yeah, yeah. Is it good to see me? I log on, you send me a Zoom, and there you are. It's like, oh. I think I look a bit bleary and red-eyed this morning for some reason.

I think it's your camera. You think? Yeah, it's the camera. Ah, it's the camera. A bit pasty. Actually, I'm incredibly handsome. You. But this camera, I don't know.

Have you got that special lens that you put on there to make it a little bit blurry and soft? I've got the humbling filter on. Right. The humble goggles. I put them on every morning, yeah. Speaking of glamour and production and looking awesome and handsome, what's happening to Tim's music video playing the sofa shop on top of the big rocking horse in Gamaraka in the style of Slash from November rain?

What's happened to that project? I thought it was happening. I thought the wheels were turning. I've even heard. demos, and I saw videos of demos being created by lots of handsome Australian blonde men that look like they should be in Sons of Anarchy. Right, yes. And then it just all went quiet.

Well, man, as you know, nothing in Hollywood happens quickly. Nothing with Tim happens quickly. People are meeting with people. There's production meetings, designs, conversations, delays. You've got to get the money men on it. I've got union issues. I've got the money men. you know and I've been back and forward so there's been quite quite a lot that's gone on but

not it's not nothing people sitting in those direct you know directors chairs making decisions and then calling cut and all that kind of stuff yeah actually we're not quite at that bit yet but no everything else all the other stuff it's got bogged down with the lawyers yeah a lot of it's legal there were some yes no that's true there was some legal issues there was some sourcing the right guitar issues, which is often, you often see that come up. Rights. Rights. Yeah.

Yeah. Couldn't get the rights. Okay. And then, so it went on the back burner. Then it's back on the front burner again. Right. But I've got two words to say, greenlit. Oh.

Yes. It's happening. I thought it was already greenlit. I thought that was the conversation we had months ago. Oh, it's been sort of amber. But no, it is. Okay. No, it's been greenlit, but it's been.

going to go slow. And we've taken it out of this go slow into the, into the fast track. It's being fast track now. Okay. Off hiatus. Yes, off hiatus. And it's all systems go. It's happening.

In fact, I was texting about it just yesterday. Honestly, the delay has been two things. One is the weather because it was very dark. And our access to the rocking horse isn't 24 hour. You know, there's no massive lights we needed to suit to film during the day. So we had to wait for us to get out of that midwinter time. And it's like when you're filming in Antarctica. You can only do it at certain times.

And then I had to source the right guitar because I want the exact right guitar and get the piece made. But we are pretty much done. I would like to record. I think we can film in the next month. I've got a couple of trips interstate. But apart from that, we're going to be filming in the next month. You do. You work on a different time scale to me.

Definitely, definitely, definitely this year. Wow. Definitely maybe I will believe it when I see it But I'm looking forward to it This reminds me, in my head It's become like You know the ad

Which is probably my favourite Advertisement of all time Where Jean-Claude Van Dam Does the splits between the two trucks At sunrise And they had this small window To get it at just the right time And all this effort and planning

Went into it for this magical moment This is what this video has become to me And anything less is going to be a disappointment Well, I wonder if it's one of those things where a documentary about the making of the film will be more intriguing than the film itself, you know? Well, you know I've told you to film everything and have lots of footage of behind the scenes and what went into it, because I do want people to get the full picture, you know, the full story. Yeah, yeah. It hasn't really got a name yet. I think it's,

again, you referred to it as the Sofa Shop film in the style of Slash in November Rain on top of the rocking horse at Gamaraka, which is one of the longer titles for a film that I've heard of. But Yeah, but we'll get there. We'll get there. I cannot wait. We're certainly, you know, more than halfway, having not actually filmed it. How would you feel about right here and now giving people a small, small audio peak at the music you had recorded? Just to throw them a bone and show them that something's actually happening.

Well, well, yeah, if you feel like you want to, yeah, yeah, I mean. Just a little bit. It's just a little bit. It does sound pretty amazing. so yeah no it's yep yeah no go go for it go for it and you're happy to you're happy to pull back the curtain and let people know that you're actually going to be air guitaring on top of the rocking horse i think i think people know that that's how films are made i mean really that's i think i mean for instance slash himself in november rain doesn't have a lead in his guitar

and he's in the middle of the desert so i think yeah yeah are you going to have a lead in yours you're going to you're going to do the homage to slash and have no lead in the guitar when you're up there. No, I won't have a lead, because if you have a lead, then you're wondering, where's that lead going? And it'll just be going down the ladder. And then, you know what I mean? It suggests it'll just totally, people will bump on it, you know, and be wondering, where the hell's that lead? So, no, it'll be me. People will be lost in the magic. A lot of jump cuts, too, a lot of fast cutting, but also some really cool drone shots and stuff. It's going to be, it's all about the drone shots. Sorry, when I say drone shots, I mean helicopter shots.

yes here is a very very small peak for you a little preview of the of the music there was a big recording session wasn't there and this is this is what they came this is some of what they came up with right this is not epic no it's a bit straight ahead we want more grandiose more more foot on the foldback Good stuff. Well, there we go. Wet the appetite. Wet the appetite. I'm excited. Especially now the sun's come out. We've moved into spring here in Adelaide, so it's perfect time for filming.

Beautiful. We're going the opposite way. It's just completely grey and dreary here now. And it's starting to be dark when you wake up. It's like, oh, okay. So you're going into that sort of English complainy kind of mode, you know. Must and grumble. Must and grumble. We'll grumble. Yeah, totally. Ideas for a podcast.

Oh, yes, indeed. You go first. Have you got something? Do you know what? I've been sitting on this idea for, how long has this podcast been going? I didn't even know how long we've been going. Eight years.

Eight years. I reckon I've been sitting on this for six, if not seven. Wow. And I've just never been able to get it right, get it where I want it to be. And do you know what? I still haven't. Right.

But I'm pulling the trigger anyway, all right. All right. All right. So I haven't even really got the format or the name. I haven't even really got what it is. This sounds like perfect workshop material. Let's workshop this idea, man. All right, let's do it.

It just sounds like a Tim idea. So anyway. So let's do it. This idea is about words. It's about words that I think are wrong. The word doesn't fit what it. means. Oh yeah, okay, yep. And sometimes it can be because of the onomatopoeia of the word, like the word just doesn't sound like the thing. And I'm not really talking about words that,

you know, I didn't know the definition of or I don't know the definition of. There are lots of those. And this idea is also very personal to different people. Everyone will have different words that they think are wrong. So I don't really know where to go with it, whether that guests come on and propose words or us as hosts would use the words. But it's a, about words that I think should be retired or changed in the English language because I think the word doesn't fit the meaning and it doesn't seem right to me. And do you have an alternative? No. Right. In the podcast, you could. That could be the podcast. The podcast could be coming up with alternatives. You know, I do enjoy coining words, as many people know. I have

bit of a reputation for coining words. So perhaps that could be a thing. But I haven't got, I haven't got it for that because I quite like coining words for new things, things that haven't got a name, but these are words that already exist and the definitions exist and they have for a long time. I just don't like the word. I'm going to give you some examples. Okay, that is a harder challenge to actually change usage of a word. It does happen across time. Famously, it happens to many words, but you being the catalyst for it is quite a challenge. But anyway, bring on an example. No, of course. I don't think the podcast would actually be an agent for change. It would just be a fun podcast. But let me give you some words that I think are wrong for what they mean.

Bucolic. Bucolic. Bucolic. Bucolic, which I think sounds like a bit like colic. The bubonic plague. Yeah, it sounds like it sounds like it should be something terrible, doesn't it? Oh, it's bucolic. Well, I don't know what it means.

What is bucolic? It means pleasant and relating to the beautiful countryside. If you have a bucolic afternoon, out on the farm it means everything was beautiful and green and lovely in english is it an english word like is yes yes and it means lovely alcoholic would be more like it i think that there's an alcoholic afternoon rather than alcoholic bubonic colic it sounds like something like that and they're all negative things but bucolic is a lovely thing okay wrong word wrong word we do have other words so replacing that with something else is like you

You can't say I'm going to replace that with lovely, because lovely already exists. Yeah, bucolic is more specific than just lovely, of course, but because bucolic relates particularly to countryside and rural life. Right. But yes, I don't think I'm suggesting a podcast where you come up with new words. I'm talking about words that I think should be retired is basically what I'm saying. So for each of these, I want to have a go at a word to replace it with. And for this one, I'm going to go with Agrica Lovely.

That is agriacalubri. Agra, agra, you know, yeah, we know we're... Agrika lovely? Well, that would not be my choice of a word, but good on you for having a try. Add it to your list of words. Bring it up in a minute as a word you want to see changed. Agrika lovely. Here's another one.

Bourgeois. Yes. Yes. Because that's like a very French sounding word. It sounds like it's quite posh. It makes me think of, you know, oh, you know, it's very bourgeois but of course

bourgeois means middle class and you know conventional attitudes it's almost I associate it almost more with mediocrity in some ways

but it's a kind of posh sounding word it is I always I would have it higher than that it's certainly I think it as the opposite to Bohemian

so if Bohemian is unusual and alternative bourgeois is kind of the mainstream but richer that's how I would see it Almost like middle class.

Yeah, it's above, it's middle class. And, you know, yeah, materialistic. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The bourgeoisie are the people who were sort of, you know, not the working class, above the working class, you know. Yeah, but not the upper class. No, no.

But I think we always, but it's such a French-sounding ju-jou word that I think, I'm not happy with it. Yep. Not happy with it. Okay. All right, all right. Not proposing an alternative to that one? I've got quite a list.

Well, yeah, I don't know if I want to propose an old. alternative to what we think it sounds like or for what it literally means. Let me think, I do, I was thinking this last night, actually, when I was coming home, I was thinking, we had been describing a particular street I was in and joking about how it's really leafy and lovely, this is where I was playing tennis and joking about, oh, careful going back to your car, you know, for crime. And then I was trying to think, what is, how would you describe it? So leafy, wealthy, middle class, play.

but in some ways quite boring. Hmm, what is a word? Yeah. Here's another one for you. I am going to propose the word sanguine. Sanguine. Oh yeah, okay. So to me, this is a very calm word.

It's almost a sad word. I find it a sad word to say. Sanguine. More sad than melancholic. Yeah, yeah, that's what, yeah. But of course, sanguine means, optimistic and positive, especially in a difficult situation. I don't think the word sanguine makes me think of someone being positive and optimistic,

because sanguine I don't think is a very high energy word. No. But being positive and optimistic are things I associate with high energy. I think it's in the same slipstream as the word swan. And I imagine something gliding, something slow, something graceful. Calmness. Yeah, that's right. Sanguine, yeah.

I've got quite a long list here. How about bellicose? Oh, I don't know what that means either. What's that? Well, bellicose, I think, sounds like quite a nice thing, a positive thing. Like bellicose. Bellicose is someone demonstrating aggression and a willingness to fight. A warlike attitude.

If someone's bellicose, they want to fight. There's anger. I'm bellicose. But bellicose doesn't feel like that to me. Bellicose doesn't sound like an aggressive, angry word. All of these words, I feel like I want to check the etymology. Like, how did they evolve to this point? No, no, no, no.

I understand that's what you want to do, and I respect that. Yeah. And once you do that, it will all make more sense. And you'll say, oh, of course, that's why the word exists. But that's not what this is about. This is about the vibe and the reason. It's veal today, yeah. And the initial feeling, because that matters more to me.

Because that's how words are used. experience of the word. Mm. All right. Keep going. Move through your list. Give us something else. Oh, I don't.

I won't do all of them. All right. Hursuit. Oh, gosh. Hursuit. Tim, you are, Tim, you are her suit. You are very her suit. So let me think about what that.

Do you take that as a compliment? Are you taking that as a compliment? Yes. I would say, neat, upright, proper. Yes. Yes. Yes. It means hairy.

Right. I have a hair suit. Is that literally what it means? Yeah, well, that's why I'm putting it, yeah. Hursuit, having a lot of hair. Tim is very hursuit. Chewbucka is Hursuit. Hesuit, yeah.

There we go. Wrong word for me. Yeah, totally. I'm sure if you do the etymology, it'll all make sense. Chewbacch-bacresk would be my replacement word. Chew-bacchubacher-esque, chewy. We can't have chewy. Go through, what's a word that we've heard of that's not too abstract or obtuse?

Well, most of them are a little bit that way, because I guess a a word's super, super common. It takes over, doesn't it? It breaks free of those barriers. Some other words I've got on the list, they are a little bit obscure, I guess. Verdant. Oh, what does that mean? What feel do you get from the word of verdant? What kind of word is it? It's an adjective, is it? I guess they're all adjectives. Yes, it is an adjective. England is verdant. Verdant. Oh, I think I know what this means. I think there's an album by an artist I can't remember call the verdant. Does it mean like grassy,

like lawn green? Green and grassy and lush. Yes. But to me, Verdant sounds more a harsher word like vertical and it sounds mathematical. You know,

it doesn't, it doesn't, I know it comes from the French for green. So obviously it has a very, its etymology is obvious. Oh, right. And to French people,

it probably makes a lot of sense. But if you don't know that, I don't think verdant is a good word for green. You're right, it does sound mathematical. It's the kind of one where they'd go, oh, okay, that's a prime number, and that one's the verdant,

and that's the, you know, yes, yeah. Yeah, the verdant of the triangle. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right, yeah. Yeah. Puse. Puse. Puse.

I don't know what that means either. So, yeah, sort of a, it's a purplish, brownie, reddy, pinky colour. Oh, right, yes. Puse. Puse. Puse. Puse.

Puse. But it sounds pewterid, but it sounds putrid and disgusting. Yes, it does. But I don't think the colour piece is particularly disgusting. My daughters are wonderful with colours. They've got all sorts of pretentious names for all these different colours, like for their nail polish and stuff. And I'm over, I just generally refer to prime, what are they called primary colours, you know, just like, oh, that's red, that's green. And they go, oh, Dad, don't be ridiculous. You know, that's sky, you know, sassafras or something, you know, like.

Sky sassafras. is that a thing is it now the title of this episode Sky Sassafras Now I have gone for very deliberately And it is what I want to do Words that just have a feeling to them And like a sound

You know Like I said sometimes Sometimes the onomatopoeia of it Sometimes just the sound And the feeling of the word Or the similarity to Other words, there is another category of words you could bring in here, and it's not really where I want to go, but there are words that maybe are just misleading.

Like, the famous example is flammable and inflammable. So if something's inflammable, it means it catches fire. And if it's flammable, it also means it catches fire. Another slightly better example of maybe things being misleading and therefore often being misused is nonplussed, if you are nonplussed by something. which very much leads one to think that means you're unhappy with it or disappointed by it. Indifferent even, yeah. Yeah, but of course, nonplust actually means surprised or confused, not knowing how to act.

That's the actual meaning of nonplust. So there are words where, you know, you're almost misdirected by the word. And I'm happy to discuss them, you know, I think it could be interesting too. But that's not so much what I've been going for, as you can tell. incontinent is a word that I don't think suits what it is. Incontinent, yes. So incontinence pads, incontinence. Inability to control bodily functions, particularly urination,

or inability to control passion and emotion can also less frequently be referred to as incontinence, incontinent. Yeah, I don't know. That one works for me, but... I think that might be the familiarity of it, though, because I don't think it does suit the word. Incontinent. Yeah, certainly continent.

It's funny that one refers to, you know, a gathering of nations, a large body mass of land. Yeah, a land mass, yeah. And then, yeah, and then suddenly, yeah, it also refers to something not very solid, not very, something it isn't a large mass. On that subject, effluent. Effluent almost sounds like a nice word, doesn't it? It sounds like affluent, which means wealthy. And you think of flowing and fluent. If something or someone is fluent, that's also a positive thing.

But, of course, effluent is sewage. Yes. So. That's one of the famous running gags in a show. If people around the world want to get a sense of Australian culture, like on YouTube find a show called Kath and Kim, like with a K, Kath and Kim. And that's of like suburban, Western Suburbs, Suburban Australia. And this is where this kind of language is misused.

Where they're making this. Oh, those people. They have a lot of money. They're very affluent, you know, that comes up again and again. Yeah. So suffrage. Suffrage is a terrible word for what it is. I know.

I know. I know. And I did quite a bit of research and went down, had a cup of tea at this suffrage centre that actually still exists here in Adelaide a little while ago near my previous workplace, the college. And it does. All my life, I've thought it was like, oh, women were suffering. Like they were suffering under the burden of not being able to vote and, you know.

Of course suffrage does relate to the right to vote in elections and the women's suffrage movement is sort of the most common use of it. Yeah, I remember at some point I realized, oh, the women were for suffrage. They weren't against it. No, yeah, no, exactly. They weren't like slaves and we're suffering here. It was like, we're for suffrage. So there we go.

Of course, Tim and I would love to hear more examples of words that you think are wrong. Wrong words. What are your wrong words? Good idea. Good idea. This is, well, we've talked about it for a little while. I like this. And I feel like I'm going to be noticing them more because they do come up from time to time and I'll note them and we can bring them in as we go along. Words that can be changed. And of course, one person's word that should be changed for another person is not. If you're very familiar with the word or you like it, you know, you may disagree strongly with what we're saying. And you may have a word that you think is really. wrong that we love. So it is very personal to the person. I still think it's fun to talk about. Give us your words. Send us your words. Email, redder, all the usual places. We'd love to hear. Patreon as well. Tell us words that you think are not fit for purpose. Not fit for purpose words. Man, is it time for spoon of the week yet? Hang on. Just let me get the jingle running. Hang on. You ready? Where's the button? I've got this. I've actually got a button on my keyboard.

It's a huge red button that just says spoon of the week. And when I press it, you hear this. Spooned I'm awake What you got? Well Brady We've got a wonderful spoon That's come out of the collection today I've sent you a photo of it

Just a few minutes ago It's from a place That is affectionately Sometimes known as Brizzy Wizzy I thought you were going to say Brisbane Vegas

Oh it's become Bris Vegas later on That's right It's kind of Brisbane is a bit like The Vegas It's a sort of a It's like if Vegas was in Texas, that's kind of what Queensland and Brisbane is like.

So for those who don't know, Brisbane is the capital city of the state of Queensland, which is the sort of the top northeastern quadrant of Australia. It's largely a big rural state, but has a very long coastline, and Brisbane is on the coast there. It's the capital. And it has a little bit of the Florida about it as well, because it's got like holiday parks and it's got um you know like movie world and dream world the sort of australian no that's not brisbon that's gold coast sorry i'm talking about bro i'm talking i'm talking i'm i know that i'm talking about queensland as a whole that's kind of as a state it's a bit like

florida you know it's got that kind of yes yes because the reason i kind of the reason i protested was i've been to the gold coast several times including with you i have never been to brisbane oh right okay brisbane is way better like really i i can't stand the gold coast No, but Brisbane's actually a cool city and it's got some lovely, you know, music scene and alternative areas and cafes and it's got a fantastic art gallery and riverbank area and stuff. I always hear people talk Brisbane down and I always, to me, Brisbane has no identity. Well, it's no Melbourne or Sydney, no, but it's Brisbane. But like even Adelaide and Perth, you know, love or hate them, I feel like they have like an identity to them. But if someone said to me, what's Brisbane?

I'd be like, well, it's a city in Queensland, and it's near the Gold Coast, and it's near the Great Barrier Reef, and if you go inland, there's all this stuff, but Brisbane itself is just like, I've got an airport, and... I'll give you this, it doesn't have, I don't have a mental picture of it in my mind. Like, it doesn't, it's not like, oh, yeah, Melbourne, you know, I know that, you know, I think of the Flinders Street clocks or whatever. Sydney, you think of the Sydney Harbour and the Opera House. Brisbane, I guess I think of the riverbank, but only.

bits of it like the art gallery and then there's the west end and it's not it's not got a clear it needs it needs a brand that's what it needs i always think that about it anyway let's get back to the spoon what's on the spoon well maybe this could be their brand this is what we can think of from now on because what you've got there is oh there is that bridge now there is a bridge called the i don't know if it's this bridge but there is a bridge in in brisbane called the go between bridge, which is legendary because it's named after the great Brisbane band, the go-betweens, wonderful, wonderful band from the 1980s. And so they named the bridge, the go-between bridge.

But I don't think that's what this bridge is. This is an older bridge, but I don't know what. Yeah, on the spoon, so on the spoon, there's like a, there's, on the enamel top of the spoon, at the top of the spoon, the handle we've got, there's like a sort of a bridge. It looks like a big, big elaborate bridge across the river, presumably the Brisbane River, a palm tree, the word Brisbane, this spoon to me encapsulates why Brisbane has no identity. It's just like a bridge that we're not sure what it is and a tree. And a tree.

Well, let me tell you, the rule applies here that anywhere that features a palm tree is bloody awful. Right. I think, unless you're in the Caribbean, you know what I mean? Anywhere in the Western world that puts a palm tree somewhere, that is going to be a a bad pub, a bad resort, a bad beach. You know what I mean? Like, it just feels paradise crap. Like, that's what it feels like whenever there's a palm tree somewhere.

Fighting doesn't solve anything, Daniel. We neither do palm trees, ma. What's that from? Karate Kid. Oh, right, okay. Fighting doesn't solve anything. Oh, well, neither does palm trees, ma. That's not fair.

I will say one thing about this spoon, apart from its kind of, you know, breezy-wizzy kind of emblem on it. The actual spoon's a classic, beautiful spoon. older and it's silver. And on the back it has a brand, which is Stuart EPAI. So I googled that to find out a bit about it. In fact, I'd chat GBTed it as well to see if I could get some history. And there was none on it, but the Googling brought up a heap of spoons. It seems to be a very, very common Australian silverware kind of brand. I got the impression it was a New Zealand company, because this Stewart EPAI, because I googled it too. It's like a, yeah, it's on the back

of the spoon. And it is like, I think it's the hallmark, you know, for the spoon. But it's a lot bigger than a typical hallmark. And yeah, it seems to refer to the silver electroplating. And yeah, I thought it might have been a New Zealand company that made it. I could be wrong about that. Oh, right. Okay. Well, let us know if you know anything about Stuart EPAI. Stewart EPAI, the makers of the spoon. This was one that your dad brought back from a trip to Brisbane, presumably? I presume it was. He went there in the late 80s. He went for a trip up to Brisbane. and maybe he brought it back then, although it does seem like it's older than that. But he, of course, may not be from the 1980s.

He may have found it somewhere, and it was even older. But it feels older than that. It feels like it's designed in the sort of 70s or 60s, maybe. It's got a nice aging sort of patina about it. It's almost like it's a classic Royal England spoon, but then someone stuck a Brisbane sticker on the front of it, you know. Yeah, because the front, the Brisbane part is kind of a bit tacky. Yeah, okay.

But there it is. There it is. It goes into the canon and becomes an unmade spoon, part of the collection. Yep, there's a page on our website where we have every spoon that's ever been featured. You can go and scroll down and have a look at the mall. Tim, when were you last in Brisbane? Oh, that's a really good question. I think it was for a theology conference about five years ago, just pre-COVID.

So that'd be at least six years ago, actually. Yeah, just talking God, talking Jesus. That was a good conference. We went down to the river, and on the barge we had like a dinner and got up and danced a little bit and walked across. I remember that night because I remember on the way, one of my colleagues, one of the other theology lecturers, we went into a little bar and he said, oh, let me splash out. Let me buy a round of cocktails for everyone. And we were like, oh, gosh, not really a cocktail crowd, you know, more of a glass of wine crowd. But he went cocktails for everyone.

And then a few more people seemed to have walked in in our group than he realized. And so he got to the end when, I'm kind of regretting that now. It was quite an expensive brand. But that was a good night. $7,000. Yeah, that was great. Tim, do you have an idea for a podcast? I do, I do.

And you know how you sort of describe your workshop unformed idea as Timesque? Mine's the same. I've not come up with a perfect name for this, although I keep going to the wrong word. I keep thinking of calling it orifices, but that's totally wrong because it's actually about offices, or more specifically, work spaces. I note that both you and I have very recently moved into new workspaces into, mine's

kind of an office, but it's more than an office. Yours is kind of a workspace. And I just wondered, there was a podcast idea, and it's talking about our workspaces, how we like to have it. I know you're quite particular about these things. things, particularly yours is, you know, your own, like it's not at a workplace. It's your own workplace. So I wondered if this idea, we could actually have a go at this podcast idea by talking through a little bit of our workspace and why your workspace is the way it is.

And I can see a little bit of it over your shoulder. And last time I mentioned that you had a massive beanbag. Today it looks like you're recording this podcast sitting in front of Jabba the Heart, actually. It's like it's just over your shoulder. Yeah. So to put people, I have this, like, big, huge beanbag, which I actually bought for our house. I bought it for Edward, my son, mainly, because we saw one of these at, like, another place we went to, like a activity center we went to. And they had these giant bee bags. And Edward loved jumping on them, like leaping off chairs and tables through the air and landing on it. So I said, I've got to get him one of these giant beanbags. So we had it for a while in our house. And he did enjoy jumping on it. but it kind of takes up a lot of space

and my wife decided it was time for it to leave the house and I have this workspace next door now which I'll talk about shortly so I moved the beanbag next door for me just to sit on because I have room for it here but at the moment this new office I've got set up isn't very acoustically friendly it's got lots of hard surfaces

and not a lot of furnishings in it yet so to sort of soak up some of the echo in the room I've moved the beanbag into the room whenever I do a podcast. So just before you and I start recording, I put this massive beanbag, which is almost the size of a person, sort of behind me to soak up some sound in the room. So there's a big beanbag sitting next to me for that reason. I mean, I would have thought, is that not dangerous for a little kid to go climbing in? I would have thought a little kid could get stuck when they're learning to walk in that

and not be able to breathe or, you know what I mean? Like in the middle of it, like it's a massive mountain of sand or snow or something. is it like that or is it's pretty sturdy no it's not that soft oh okay okay it's pretty tough it's pretty hard and big and he's like three and a half years old now oh well he is now yeah get in and out of a bean bag yeah but i think i think you should be careful man i don't want you getting on there unsupervised oh i'll uh i'll be careful i'll be careful that's why we find brady in six months time stuck on his beanbag with his like he's a turtle upside down or something waving his arms and legs i know where to move you said we're both in new workspaces

Tell me, first of all, why are you in a new office? What happened that precipitated you moving? Because you basically, you've just moved from one side of a building to another, haven't you, your office? That's right. We have a bunch of offices, and we had, it was never a good configuration. So the whole time I've been here at the church, all these offices, it's not quite working because of the way one office leads into another one. So we had some new staff begin, and we had to move everything around.

So we put four of them in one office. So they've got, that's called the quad now. That's like a really cool sort of hangout space. A bit like in MASH, you know, the swamp, that tent's like got, you know, the three cool guys in it. And that's a really cool hangout area because it's like the youth and the young adults pastor and the children's pastor and the worship pastor. They all have that cool quad space. Okay. So that's the cool end of the building.

And I've moved up the other end of the building, one room and then another one that goes off for a bit more of a meeting counseling room. Yeah. But that's why we moved. We just needed to reconfigure it for room. Okay. And you use this as a chance to reboot your workspace and how you want things to look and lay out and stuff? Well, it coincided with me resigning my position at the college where I had a different office. So I had to bring all those books over and all that stuff from there and set it up here. So it was actually an opportune time to set it up properly here with new bookshelves and all that sort of stuff.

What do you need in an office as a church minister to make an office work? like what are some of your requirements to have a good functioning office? What do you need to do in an office? Well, you just need, I mean, you pretty much just need a laptop and a Bible, but then you need some, you know, Bible commentaries and stuff. Like, you need books to help you prepare sermons. And you need a space to sit with people that's quiet and confidential to meet, like meet with couples.

You also need a place to have, you can just use a meeting room, for instance, to meet with staff or meet with teams and the church council. So it's just like any other office, really, you just need to be able to sit. And you're, of course, communicating and emailing and all that kind of stuff. Because you're having meetings in there with sometimes, you know, like you say, sometimes sensitive, confidential meetings with people, pastoral care. Yeah. Is there any kind of look or feel you go for, things you beware of, things you avoid,

things you make sure to do in the look and feel of the office? Yeah, yeah. So the room next door, which is what we've set up as a like a lounge, You keep it very simple and soft. You go, okay, this is a room where people are going to be grieving, where, you know, sometimes difficult conversations happen. So you make it like any counselling room, really. You keep it reasonably benign.

You don't chocker it up with, you know, lightsabers and, you know, massive beanbags and stuff like that. Like, you just sort of make it pretty nice and pleasant. You make sure that it's confidential. So there's not, like, this one's got a big window and we're putting some frosting just along at. So when you're sitting down. that's kind of at the eye level so you don't feel self-conscious about people looking at you in there people walking past on the street yeah but you also want it transparent like you know in terms of being a safe space with genders and kids and ages all those spaces at churches you want it to be so

it's not like behind closed doors or anything like that as well so there's a bit of a balance there that all those considerations i had a friend that um was diagnosed with cancer quite young you know she's a lot better now by the way but she was telling me at the hospital the doctor took her into a room to have a talk and it was like this this sort of quite plain room with like a picture of a flower or an orchid on the wall as soon as she saw that picture of the flower on the wall she knew I know this is the cancer room yeah right yeah yeah what what artwork or pictures do you have on the wall for your sort of because obviously that room is a I imagine a lot of happy joyful things happen in that room but also a lot of people who are grieving or

have had sadness in their life and stuff like that too so obviously I imagine there were lots of sensitivities. I just want to know what picture you have on the wall. Is it a flower? We've got no, it's no. Well, it is a leaf. It's, oh, but that's because it's on the album cover of a new order album. So it's actually just a big poster of new order, like the band, like an album cover.

Yeah, so that's the main picture in there, which is kind of benign, but looks like modern art, you know, that kind of thing. Then there's a wall of books, and then there's a massive window and some nice stuff outside. So it kind of. works as it is yeah the books the books have like little plants they're spaced out and stuff it's not all chockers like in here in my cavern in my my little place here which is where i've like this is my workplace which is what i've got nick cave on the wall and you know like i've got some lovely old like an old picture of a cathedral and you know um nice big brick stone wall and stuff and then books everywhere yeah so quite quite busy aesthetic i would say your office is that fair it's got a lot of

stuff in it, but I like it, I like it busy, but in its place. I don't like it chaotic. Yeah, like the books are exactly where I want them and they're all categorised, so it's easy for the other stuff to find them to use in their essays and stuff, like they've got labels and stuff. And I've got like, you know, a couple of typewriters, but and some unmade podcast stuff and everything. But it's all in its place, yeah. Everything in its place. The desk has paper, but I like decluttering everything. I like have a lot of stuff, but in its place so that it feels decluttered, for sure. When do you do your tidy declutter? Like, do you do it every day before you leave the office, every morning when you come in, once a week? Like, how often do you do like a,

all right, let's sort this out? Or does it not get that cluttered because of the nature of your work? Instinctively, during the day, yeah. Generally, when I come in in the morning, right, what's happening here? And at the end of the day, I'm leaving. And unless I'm rushing, I'm like, right, let's, I love, let's get rid of this piece of paper. Let's get rid of this piece of paper. Yeah, so I do that every day on the desk, I think, yeah. How many hours a week would you spend in that office you're sitting in now, your minister's office there at the church? I'm full time at the church here at the moment. But of course a lot of your work isn't in your office.

No, you go and meet in a cafe and then you go do other things. If I think about a sort of a 50-hour week, I guess I'm in here maybe for 30 hours. Do you feel good when you come into your office when you step in in the morning? Is it a good feeling? Like, oh, I love this space. I can't wait to get going and that. What's your emotion when you walk in? Yeah, I love coming to work and I love coming into the room.

I need slabs of time with the door shut, you know, like to be quiet and gets things done. I feel fantastic. But then I go out and go and looking for people. Hey, everybody, how's it going? What's going on here? You know, I love them popping in. Hey, come in, joking. Yeah.

Yeah. I do. I love the feeling of being in here and working. Is there anything about your office you feel you haven't got right yet or you want or like, you know, is it exactly as you want it now? what would you change? What would you add? What would you remove? Is there anything about it? That's not right? I just, like, I think everyone has the same thing. I just need to buy a bigger monitor. I just want a bigger monitor. Everyone always just wants a bigger monitor. I've gone to two really big ones now and like I'm really enjoying having two. Like it is it is a real game change of being able to move things around and drag things from one monitor to another rather than closing and opening apps all the time and stuff.

Yeah. This was a big monitor six years ago. when I bought it, but it's, you know, suddenly I feel all boxed in and I need to, I need to spread out. I have heard it said, though, the bigger and more monitors you have, the lower you are in the food chain. Like, you know, because there are people who do all the coding and the work and the grunt work have big monitors and lots of monitors and that. And yet, if you're a CEO of a huge company, you normally spend your whole life just on a phone and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, you know, so the fact I've got this second big monitor now makes me realize, yeah, I'm a soldier.

Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's a very good point, actually. Yeah. So let me ask you about your space there, man. What have you done there? Well, recently, a little sort of tiny flat apartment next door to where I live became available. And I've adopted that as my office for a while as an experiment to see how I like working away from home because for the longest time, my office was upstairs in our house.

But now I actually have to leave the house, open the front door. and walk to an apartment very, very close by, but it is a separate place. You can't do it in your pyjamas, or you could do it in your pajamas, but I haven't got to that stage yet. So there is a real sense now for the first time in a very long time of coming to work,

which so far is an experiment I'm liking very much. And because it is an apartment that has like rooms, I've got like a little kitchenette here. Oh. I have got a little bathroom, but there's just like a sort of a living room in a living space, but rather than turn that into a living space with like a sofa and a TV and a dining table, I've turned that into a place where I want to film and it's going to be

like a little, not a studio, but just a workspace where I could build Lego or do the marble runs. There's a big table in the middle and I can put cameras around it and it's like a decent amount of space. It's not all cramped into one little room. And then in what would be the bedroom here. I've turned that into my actual computer office where I do my editing and sit at my computer and spend most of the time. But I haven't been in here that long. And because I have so much work to do and I'm always working, I haven't really been able to have like a week or two to get it exactly how I want it and design it and hang up the pictures and make it me. It does still feel a little bit new or temporary. I haven't totally bedded it. I haven't totally better it. I haven't. I

into it yet but i am gradually doing that over time now bringing more of my own personality and stuff into it so it feels a bit more homely but i am finding a good place to work less distracted you know the comings and goings of home don't distract me edward coming home i don't hear ed would come home and think oh i'm going to go down and see him which inevitably turns into half an hour of playing hot wheels and stuff like that so there's less distraction here i'm probably a bit more focused But I'm also a lot more good at having a finishing time Because when I finish work now And I turn the lights off and go back into the house next door

I can't come back to my computer to check something Or do work. So there is a good separation And I can't do a lot of my work on a laptop Because I need all these hard drives With all the media on them and stuff like that So it's not easy for me to do a lot of my work from home If I'm not, if I don't have access to the office

It used to be I could just say Oh, I'm going to go upstairs now in my pyjamas and work for half an hour. Can't really do that anymore. So going home means going home, which is a new thing for me. And I think a positive thing. It's probably a good thing for Edward as well,

rather than seeing that dad's here but distracted, going to work is another place, you know, and then coming back. Yes. Yes. I wonder about that, though, because I am noticing now, it also could be just because he's getting older and smarter. but he's very aware that daddy goes and works like oh will you play with me daddy and I'm like oh no I've got to go to work I've got to go next door go to work and he's like kind of resigned

to it okay yeah you've got to go to work and that kind of makes me feel a bit sad yeah he kind of like he's got this enthusiasm and happiness and then daddy says I've got to go away to this other place where you won't see me and be able to play with me whereas before I could okay let's play for another 10 minutes and then I'll go upstairs and I'll come downstairs when I hear something funny is happening downstairs, I'll come and join in the fun. But now I feel a lot more like I go away and I see not a sadness in him, but just a realisation that Daddy goes away from me and does this thing. And that feels more separate now. And it reminds me of my childhood. It reminds me of dad leaving every morning and

me seeing him go out the door and walk off down the street and disappear until I next got to see him. And there's like a, there is a kind of a, there is a sadness to it, a melancholy to it. And I now see that. I now see myself as that person to him, which I didn't before. Kylie, my wife goes away for her work and usually overnight. And there is a, you know, where's mummy? Oh, she's in Manchester. She's in London.

And his realization of what that means now that she's far away, she's not here, she has to do that less. And I never had to do that, except when I went away for work, of course. but now I do it every day and there is a that has a little a tinge of something to it that is a little bit sad

it may be more honest though like you know there's because the time is proper time I mean I'm not a fan of talking about quality time versus quantity time I think it's all about both quantity time is great but also a lot of time

if you're there but not there because you're on your phone or not you but a person's on their phone or just looking at the screen oh dad and you're so oh but i'm here i'm here you show me but you're not really going oh sing it again but you're not really that's the worst that's the worst i mean he's three and a half now and if he wants to do something or show something or play something sometimes he'll start it with daddy daddy and i look at him and he goes put your phone down yep he'll tell me to put my phone down so i can then engage with him and that so yeah you definitely see that and i think and i do see uh an advantage to that

now because I am a bit less distracted by work now. I do have, I do feel like I have a better finish time and finish line in my head. So when I go and spend time with him, I think I am less susceptible to distraction because I have shut things down better. So I think it's positive in that way. But yeah, there is that real feeling of daddy's away, daddy's home, daddy's away, daddy's going away that is the way it is for most people. And it was for me growing up.

And now I've created that situation a bit more now. It's hard to think about what's the best. Because when you go back through history, you go, okay, well, going to work and coming back, that is all part of the industrial revolution. You go way back, you go, okay, well, we're all on a farm and we're working. But you're kind of working together. But of course, you're not working together, are you? It's not like Edwards, you know, coding alongside of you.

There may come a time when that happens, not that you code, but, you know, editing alongside you and filming something with you and all the rest of it. He's just there, and you're doing the thing near him. And that's kind of, you're not with him anyway, like I said. Yeah. And there is also, I have now got like this magical space that he can sometimes come and visit. And once I've got it up and running a bit more with like cameras and tripods and exciting things, tools, power tools, ladders, computers, screens, microphones. It does become bit of an Aladdin's cave that he can occasionally come and visit.

He came and visited Daddy's office for the first time since it's been up and running a couple of. a couple of days ago and he was really excited. What's that? What's that? As a microphone, headphones. Can I climb on that ladder? And I haven't even got all the cool stuff out yet. So once that happens, it will be an exciting place for him to visit. I was always excited if I got to see my father's workspace and mine's just going to be next door. So, I mean, he's probably only a year or two away from being allowed to just come up, come around himself. Yeah, that's cool. You guys could also do a cool little camp out. Like you could both pull out the sleeping bags and do a sleep at dad's office kind of thing as well, you know, like something like

doing a stay over next door. That would be cool. Yeah. Yeah. It is still an experiment, me working away from the house and we may decide at the moment it feels like it's working well, but we may decide for financial reasons or other reasons. It might not work. I might go back into the house. I still have the room there that was my office for now. It hasn't been swallowed up by Kylie's beautification of our house yet. So it may not work, but it's feeling like a positive step. We've talked about it for years and years, you know, should you work away from home? And I'm now doing it, although literally the wall in front of me is also the wall to my house on the other side.

Oh, yeah, right. When I come here, I do feel away from home. But you didn't put a door in then? You didn't make it like... No, no. No, there's no. Because that'd defeat the purpose. It just becomes another room then, doesn't it?

Yeah. I don't like working at home. I like going home and not working. and that's hard as a minister because you're always working there's always someone phoning and of Syl and I work together so we talk about stuff as well but we try and so there is something that bleeds

but certainly in terms of you get out the laptop you do stuff you know I don't like to do that I like to keep all that separate because I like being able to switch off but that's for me really where do you prepare your sermons then in the office I know obviously you do it in your head but yeah that's right it's all up here I start them in the office

And then I finish them off at home because I lit, which seems ridiculous. I started here at work in my office and then I take the books I might be using or take photos of those pages home and I do a bit more work at home on the weekend and then I get up and do the final polish early Sunday morning. I'm a really early riser and I love working early. So I get up and always like do the last, you know, blush then. Do you have like notes or bullet points? Obviously your sermon's not a complete written speech.

You know, I've seen you give a sermon, it seems, it doesn't seem, it doesn't seem written. You haven't got an auto queue. Like, but what are you referring to? Have you got like 15 bullet points or what does it, what does it look like, your sermon? It's generally, it's dot points with a couple of, a couple of sentences that I want to say correctly, or a quote from someone. Is it like one A4 page or is it on like little cards or? No, it's generally two, it's generally three pages. The first page is just like the, it's got the text.

that I've been dealing with and a bit, maybe an intro comment, that's just all of the one page, because I space it out a bit because of my eyesight's not that good, and I'm, you know, reading it obviously from a lectern or something. So it's a bit bigger than normal. Then generally it's two pages of information. Type, sorry, I missed so. Did you say it was typed or handwritten? Oh, no, typed.

Yeah, typed on the computer, yeah. But I also love preparing at random places during the week. So generally I do that initial work, looking at the passage in the Bible, thinking about, where we're going and the theme and all that kind of stuff and then I store that in my head for the week and then if I find myself at the Apple store you know at the genius bar and so oh gosh I'm going to be sitting here for 20 minutes I go right let me close my eyes and prepare my talk or let me pull out a piece of paper you open your phone and write notes or is that all in head type stuff no I generally if I think of something I'll write it down and take I'll generally send me in

itself an email I'll open an email and go blah blah blah blah blah and then cut and paste that later on But most of the time I've got a piece of paper and a pen And then I'll write that down And sometimes I've literally, I'm using that example Because I've done that on two different occasions And the time it takes me is okay, I'm getting this down Yeah, okay, that's pretty much great, fantastic That's largely done now till Sunday morning

Coming back to your podcast idea This is, we've just done it, isn't it? It's people coming on talking about the space they work in Why they work in it, how they work, things like that. I do like seeing people's workspace So I was having lunch with someone at their house today, and they're writing a book. And they said, I said, show me where you work.

And I go into this little sort of enclave thing. It's like, cool. This is nice. Perfect book writing sort of space, you know. Do you like a view outside when you're working? It's not important to me. My office at home that I had for a very long time had a beautiful view out over water and into the distance and mountains. My current one could have a nice view, but I've decided to put the desk.

facing a plain wall and I never even look out that window. It's not, it's not an issue. I'll tell you one thing I've done in this new office, it's nice. When you first come in the door, there's like a tiny, there's a little window in a little entry area that's got a little shelf below it. And I've put all my awards on there, like medals and trophies and things that I've accumulated over the year. And it's kind of, when I come into work, I open the door, I put my keys down, and then I

walks past that and I see it every morning as I walk to work and it's nice like it I like it like I'm not consciously thinking about it I'm not looking at it thinking oh look at those awards and I'm not thinking oh aren't I great but for some reason it's just a little bit nice and inspiring and uplifting without consciously thinking oh the work I've done has been recognized at some point in the past I'm not even thinking that it's not even that conscious a connection but having it as one of the first things i see before i start working uh this nice little neat area with some nice little pretty trinkets and trophies and things has has been really positive i find like i i've always seen offices and workplaces where they have a display

cabinet of trophies and stuff in the foyer or reception a bit like not pompous or vain or or anything just like i've never really got it like i've never really i thought ah whatever but i kind of get that more now. I kind of get why companies and places do that have those things for their employees and everyone at the entry because it is a really positive start to the day rather than saying a mess or things that need to be tidied up or work that needs to be done. Having the first thing I see every day as like a little, a little positive, neat, tidy thing associated with happy memories and awards ceremonies and nice nights out and warm feelings of recognition and stuff has been surprisingly effective.

I'm always interested in officers where they put their degrees on the wall or not. I get that too. I get that now. I get it more than I used to. Because it probably reminds them not only of something they accomplished over a long period, but lots of, yeah, it's a beautiful, neat, nice thing that encapsulates a feeling of accomplishment and happiness and nice memories just at a glance. Yeah.

At a glance. Like it's, yeah, it's something I've done and it's surprising how much I like it. Nice. Maybe I am incredibly arrogant. I don't know. But it's your office. No, you know, it's not like it's a, no one else is going there, so you haven't put it out for display.

It's just for you. So, you know. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Yeah. Yeah. But it is, it works. It's nice.

It's a nice thing. Yeah. And I'm doing a really good job. of keeping this space neat as well, more than I did when I had that office next door in my house. I'm doing a pretty good job of having it as a tidy space, maybe because it's the new shiny thing. It's also light, whereas your other one was sort of green and dark. I actually like the vibe of the other one a bit more, to be honest, but that one looks a bit more modern. Yeah, that's fair, yeah. It's got a light paint. It's still like quite an old, because it's the same

building, so it's still got like, you know, old period features and fireplace and all that sort of stuff. But yeah, it is more modern. I tell you what else I'm getting is I've got a few toys here because every now and then you meet with someone and they've got a kid with them, right? And so you want to say, oh, here, the kid's got something to do. And so they feel comfortable in the room. But I'm actually wanting to build up a collection of like cool 80s toys, like basically the toys that I always wanted to have when I was young, some cool Star Wars stuff and a transformer and an astro boy and some cool stuff. I'm going to build up a little collection like that and have that in a basket. To then give to the little ones when they're there. See,

I'd be like, oh no, this toy is too precious. They might break it. Don't you realize this is a 1981 vintage Luke Skywalker? No. You can't play with that. That's the whole point of it. Like, I've already got a Knight Rider. I've got kit, which is cool.

It's here. That's for kids to play with on the ground. It's great. Got a tram from Melbourne, which is a little more boring, but it's put in the same collection as well. Should we put a few pictures or things of some of our workspaces in the notes for people to look at? We can do that. Absolutely, we can do that.

I'm trying to think, I really like having the unmade podcast stuff here. So even though that's got, I mean, it's not nothing to do. I do the podcast here as well. But of course, the people that come in and are here for ministry and all that kind of stuff, I'm not meeting with unmade podcast listeners all the time. Although sometimes I do when they visit the church and then I can bring them in. But we've not had anyone come since I've been in the new office. So you've got a little shrine, have you, of merchant?

That's right. I've got the medals there. And, yeah, I've got the Tim Hine swimming medal. which is, so it is, for the untrained eye walking in, it's going to be a little bit, wow, that guy was really proud of that swimming accomplishment back in 19903. He's literally still got it in his office. That's great. Not realizing it's here for ironic reasons.

That's great. All right. Well, that was a fun talk, for us at least. Again, again, it's really curious. Like, if you want to send us a picture of your office or workspace, tell us anything distinctive if you do or, anything about it. We'd love to hear and, you know, we might talk about it on an upcoming episode in, you know, follow up and parish notices and things. So get in touch. Let us know about your office. We love hearing from civilians and stakeholders and the like. We haven't

done prizes, random prizes today for Patreon supporters because I am very shortly setting up another marble run and I'm going to have a whole marble extravaganza to give away some prizes that will be appearing on Patreon in the usual places. Join us, though, in the The request room. Come on over. If you become a Patreon supporter, then you get access to some bonus content. We have a list of questions today, which are questions that have not been addressed in the past. They are what we might call B-sides.

They are a bunch of lost dogs that we are going to pull together and Pat. Don't overstate the case, Tim. I'm not going to go through all the previous requests. I'm just going to go through unused requests from the last batch. Right. Yes. No. Okay.

Fair enough. Okay. But I like the B-sides. you. Come and hear some requests room B-sides.