The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby - Getting cheated on & co-parenting 7 kids w/ 4 fathers ft. Kail Lowry

Episode Date: August 12, 2026

Kail Lowry is back! We catch up on everything that’s changed since her last visit—from raising seven kids and watching her oldest reach the age she was when she became a mom, to her plans for law school, the pressure of supporting a huge family, and what life looks like with her new boyfriend, Isaac. Plus, Isaac joins us to talk relationships, money, marriage, and what it’s really like stepping into Kail’s very public world. Shopify: Build your own business with a free trial at https://shopify.com/unplanned Nutrafol: Get $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping at https://nutrafol.com with promo code UNPLANNEDPOD. Hiya Health: Receive 50% off your first order of Hiya kids vitamins athttps://hiyahealth.com/UNPLANNED—this deal is only available at this link or find Hiya in Target stores nationwide. Zocdoc: Taking care of your health just got easier - start here with Zocdoc: https://zocdoc.com/UNPLANNED #sponsored Honeylove: Save 20% Off Honeylove by going to https://honeylove.com/UNPLANNED! #honeylovepod Follow The Unplanned Podcast: https://www.instagram.com/unplanned__podcast/ https://www.tiktok.com/@unplanned_podcast Listen to the pod on Spotify/ Apple Podcasts: https://open.spotify.com/show/1ToDA4ufQuWuEgMq07zN6t https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-unplanned-podcast/id1669604504 Follow Matt & Abby: Abby's Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/abbyelizabethoward/ Matt's Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/_matt_howard_/ TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@matt_and_abby Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/mattandabb YouTube | https://www.youtube.com/@MattandAbby Mascara is sold out! Thank you guys so much! Sign up here for updates on restock: https://www.biswell-beauty.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Real Canadian Superstore has everything you need this back-to-school season. Save on lunchbox savers like Ziggy's sliced deli-meat products for always $375. And get Life Brand Pure Vita shampoo or conditioner for $8 each. At Real Canadian Superstore, when you're ready, we're ready, with a whole world and more. You don't need to have a child with every man that you're with. Sex won't make him love you and a baby won't make him stay. You may know Kayle Lowry from 16 and pregnant and the teen mom franchise. Have you ever tallied up how much money you've spent in court for custody?

Overall, it was a little over a million dollars. over 90% of it is on one dad. While raising seven kids with four different fathers and building a media empire, Kail recently suffered a devastating public breakup, calling off her engagement to her fiance, Elijah Scott. The girl that he cheated on me with went on TikTok to do a storytime. What is it like to find out news like that with 3 million other people? I was floored.

Kale talks with us about finding out she was cheated on through a viral TikTok, losing her father after years of estrangement, and why she's falling in love all over again. I fell in love in 24 hours. 24 hours. I hadn't seen him in four or five years. I knew that I loved her. And it was crazy because I've never felt this way.

Kale Lowry, welcome back to unplanned. Yeah, I think this is the first podcast that I've ever been like invited back to. Wait, no way. Yeah, I'm excited. You're kidding me. Like, not in a bad way, but just like you gotta make your rounds with other people. And so I'm excited. Yeah, I was so when EBM texted me, I was like, yeah, I'll do it.

This is cool. It's been two years. Yeah. Two years. Nearly two years. A lot has happened in two years. I think to be honest, I started getting like fed clips of you on different shows. And you were talking about some like wild stuff. And I'm like, oh my gosh, what happened in Kail's life? There's been a lot. Yeah. So I guess for someone that hasn't seen any of the of the headlines or the news, like how would you catch somebody up that hasn't seen you in two years? Wow. First of all, to your point, my son yesterday or two days ago before we came. came to Arizona. He's like, mom, when did you do all these podcasts? Because I guess they were coming up on his for you page. And he said, when did you do all these? And I said, well, what do you think I do when you're at your dad's? Like, I don't just sit around. I'm hustling. I have to work. You know what I mean? But how would I summarize it? Well, the last time I sat down with you guys,

I think I had just had the twins pretty fairly recently. Maybe like they were about a year old, maybe. So they're two and a half now. And then I found out their dad cheated on me on a cruise that I paid for and the girl went viral on TikTok and so I found out 10 months after the fact and then he moved out and he's my neighbor and then two of my kids dads moved out of state um and I think I got a new boyfriend who I've known since high school and then we're hoping to move to North Carolina so that I mean that in a nutshell that's like the main point that's a lot yeah that's fine that's a lot I feel like someone could make a movie about your life to be honest would love it There's, can I play myself?

She's like, put me in. If anybody knows anybody making movies about real life, Kail Lowry, everybody. Yes. How are you processing through all that? Are you, are you in therapy? Are you? Sometimes.

I saw that you take Adderall to help with ADHD. I'm the same way. I took it actually before this interview. Oh, did you? I did. I forgot mine. You forgot yours. Yeah.

So I go, I asked my boyfriend. I said, hey, can you grab me my medicine? I'm on that. And Prozac for anxiety. and he pulled it out of my bag and he's like, there's two bottles of Prozac and no Adderall. And I said, great. Have you accidentally ever taken your Adderall and Prozac at the same time? Yeah.

Well, I thought I was supposed to. No, I took it at same time. One time, when I was on Prozac, I took it at the same time. And it like, I felt like it was crazy. Like my heart started beating really fast. And I talked to my doctor. I was like, is this okay? And he was like, oh, that's not supposed to happen.

Don't take those at the same time. So I would take one in the morning and one at night. Wait, are you serious? Yes. Are you joking? Well, because, okay, because Prozac is for like anxiety. It's an antidepressant too, right? I'm having anxiety right now.

Where's the Prozac? Where's the Prozac? I need a boost bar immediately. Wait, okay, so take Prozac at night. I would, so I would, yeah, because I would take my Adderall like in the morning and then the Prozac at night so that they weren't mixing and messing up like my serotonin levels. And it's called serotonin syndrome when when it like you have this adverse reaction. and then sometimes you have to be like hospitalized if it gets a little too crazy.

Anyway, that's a side, that's a side tangent. That's a no, I definitely need to look into that. Thank you for letting me know. I wonder why I'm so crazy all the time, even on meds. Honestly, when it happened to me, I was like, where am I? This is crazy. You're like, am I in Allison? Yeah, seriously, seriously.

Wow. Okay, last time we chatted, you were engaged and then. Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah. Yes, you're engaged. And then how, like, what was the timeline? I found out when I was in L.A. I was working, actually.

I was on a work trip. I was mid-recording. And we were doing a podcast swap. And so we finished Soraya's episode. And then I, they pulled me aside. I didn't have my phone. They pulled me aside. Learned that.

I went back in, finished taking the pictures. I'm crying. I'm like, I can't do the other podcast. Like, I need to get home. I took a red eye home. I had told my assistant at the time. he needs to be moved out by the time I land. Yeah.

So he moved out. And so then I landed at 7 a.m. He was gone. And then I would say the relationship with Isaac did happen really quickly. It was about six weeks later. But I also knew him since before my oldest son was born. So to me, it didn't feel super rushed. Like I already knew who he was.

And we kept up with each other over the years. And so I know a lot of people that saw this on social media were like, oh my God, what is she doing? Like, this is insane. And it is insane for sure. But like, he's not a stranger I didn't know. Yeah. So six weeks.

So this was 10 months after it happened. Yeah. I found out 10 months later, yeah. Because of a video that was posted on TikTok. Yeah, the girl, I guess, that he cheated on me with went on TikTok to do a story time. But where I was in Calabasas, there was no service. So even if I had had my phone, I wasn't getting, I wouldn't have gotten service to see the video. Everyone saw that there.

I think that video had around 3 million views before I ever got to it. Oh, you're kidding me. What is it like to find out news like that? So personal, like with 3 million other people. I was floored because if you knew my ex, which we're on really good terms now, I do think that good people make bad choices sometimes. We're on really good terms. So this isn't, and he's also a lot young.

He's six years younger than me. It was, if you knew him and you understood. like when I say that he's not a people person, everybody was floored. It wasn't just me. It was the people who know him and the people who are in our personal lives were absolutely floored because he doesn't talk. Like he's like if you're around him, he doesn't, he's not super friendly. He really doesn't smile a whole lot. Like he's just very stoic, I think is the word. And so we were all floored that he even had the ability to do this. And so it was, it was wild. Like, was there any part of you that didn't believe it? Because you're like, this is just a random

girl on TikTok? I knew right away because I'm talking to my assistant on the phone because I had Alessandra does my podcast production. And then my assistant was home in Pennsylvania. And so, um, she was like, there's this girl on TikTok and she's saying that, you know, she, she, she slept with Elijah. Um, and I said, okay. And at first I was like, whatever. And then I said, is there any, are there pictures? And she said, there is a picture of her touching his arm. And I said, okay, then he did it because he's that type of person. If someone, if he allowed someone that close to him to touch his arm, he did it. Like I already know because that's, you have to break through layers and layers and layers to get to this man. So there's just

no other, he did it. And he did try to deny it at first, but then ultimately he came clean. Yeah, I was going to ask, how did that conversation go down when you got back home? We didn't have a conversation right away because I had asked for him to be moved out. And so we didn't have a conversation right away. But when we did have a conversation, he texted me and he said, can we talk? And I said, unless you're going to answer the questions that I already know the answers to, unless you're going to be honest, there's no reason to have a conversation. So at that point, he came over and we did talk. And this wasn't the first time you've been cheated on, right? No, for sure not. But I've also cheated too. Oh, you've also cheated too. Not on him. I didn't cheat on it.

I didn't cheat on Elijah, but I have cheated on like in the past. Having been a cheater, having been cheated on, what would you tell to somebody, how would you explain all that to someone that's never gone through it? It's absolutely not worth it whatsoever. Like on one, when you are the cheater, right, because I've been one, you can't sleep at night because of what you've done or what is in your phone or what somebody could tell somebody or somebody, you know what I mean? Like it's just not worth it to have.

And also when the other person finds out and they're crushed, like there are exes. There's two exes to this day. And I did them dirty. And I, to this day, if I saw them in public, I would apologize. Because there's, it's for what? For what? Because you love, I loved the way they loved me, but I didn't want to be with them. So why didn't I end it?

Like, that was so selfish. And then on the flip side of it, I got my karma. I've been cheated on multiple times by exes. And I mean, I would have done anything for those people. Do you know what I'm saying? So like, don't do it. It's not worth it. For your own piece of mind, for their peace of mind, for just the future, for whatever it is

that you're trying to build. What is the point? I found it really interesting. I was reading through some of your Instagram content or comments, which I feel like when you read through comments sections, you have to take that with a grain of salt. Did I say that right? Yeah. No, you always say salt.

I always say that term wrong. I don't know why. You crushed it that time. I was like waiting for it. You have to take reading comments with a grain of salt. Anyway, I'm reading your Instagram comments and I found it very interesting Everybody was asking for you guys to get back together. Yeah a lot of people were wanting you to reconsider Getting back with him. How did you take that? You're saying this with the I'm also saying

Yeah, this is no one Your boyfriend's in the room here we go. There's nothing that Isaac hasn't already heard. We are very open about it We talked about we actually both have we I had merch that said recovering cheaters because both of us are recovering cheaters. No way. Yeah, for sure. Like, and you have to own it in order to move forward. And so like, I love that about you. We know who we were and we know who we want to be and that's not it, you know, so now we just joke about it. Do you guys have trust issues? Are you like, all right, give me your phone? Like, no, the only thing that I will say is I'm like, okay, he wasn't what super well traveled before me. So now I'm like, are you going to fall in love with like a random makeup artist I have or something? But that's not on him. That's like my own insecurity. You know what I mean? But like, he's locked in on makeup artists. He's seen what. He's seen what. has happened with Elijah cheating. Like if he were to try to cheat on me, someone's going to tell me. Yeah, you get ready for a three-part Patreon series. People ask, like, kind of saying that I should get back with Elijah felt.

That's crazy, Matt. And he would make that a five-parter. That would be a five-parter. Oh, goodness. No, because everyone was capitalizing off my pain. So I was like, well, why can't I capitalize off my own damn pain? Honestly, good for you. Do you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, because I'm sure there was a lot of articles about it. I'm sure, I'm sure the media. Articles. And you know people can get paid on TikTok and YouTube. And so for me, it was like I have to just, you got to hear it right from the source. Totally. Was that the angle of the girl that like released it like that made the TikTok? Do you think was she able to monetize that?

Oh, for sure. Because she was already apparently and this is, I don't know if this is alleged. But apparently she has. had like 200,000 followers on Snapchat. Oh, really? And so she was already kind of doing, and I think maybe only fans? Oh, I didn't know if you knew. I think maybe she was doing only fans or something and doing spicy content or whatever.

And so I think that that was like a way for her, because why are you telling us 10 months later? Mm-hmm. And she had liked posts of me and Elijah together on Instagram between the time she slept with him and the time that she announced it. Oh, really? Yeah. She liked our pictures from Spain that we, um, they slept together May of 2024. We went to Spain November of 2024 and she liked all those pictures. So either you didn't recognize him with all his clothes on or like, I don't was he,

from his perspective, was this like a one night stand sort of thing? Yes. Were they, okay. And no numbers were exchanged, no comments, no social media. To my knowledge, obviously people will come out of the woodworks and say if that's inaccurate. But to my knowledge, I don't think that they had any sort of relationship or like communication. Yeah. So, but I think you asked me about comments and people ask, like saying for us to get back together.

Yes. It felt a little bit like a slap in the face because when I was with my ex before him and we have two kids together, he was just a cheater all the way around. And so for me, it was like everyone harassed me to leave him and you're better than that. Why are you with him? And so I finally built up the courage to leave him. And now I'm with someone who cheated and I left him too. And now it's get back together. So like you can't win whether you're with them or not.

And I'm not saying that you can't get through infidelity. I do think that some people can. I really do. But for me, I just, this is, that wasn't it for me. How do you maintain healthy relationships with all of the fathers of your kids? How do you, how do you communicate and make sure that the kids are where they need to be and that they're being taken care of. You said that two have moved out of state.

Yeah. So my oldest son, he's 16 now. I think last time we were together, I think it was like 14-ish maybe. His dad and I don't really communicate a whole lot. We really just, our 16-year-old is old enough to kind of do come and go. At least he's welcome to come and go at my house as he pleases if he wants to stay at his dad's longer. He can.

He just has to let me know. I don't know what the rules kind of are at his dad. dad's house. But my second kid, my second son's dad, he moved to Virginia last year. And we had just decided that he would stay with me for the school year, go to dads on long breaks from school, three day weekends, and then all summer. So he's there from the last day of school till about a, I think like a week before school starts. Okay. And we do email only unless we're going to do a phone call, then we schedule the phone call via email. And if necessary, my assistant can be on just for a second set of ears.

We really try to keep it mainly about Lincoln. Like it's very rarely do we kind of, I guess, fall out of that. But we really email only. My Lux and Creed's dad, Chris and I, we have a court-ordered app that we have to communicate on, but we also don't really communicate a whole lot. We don't get along even on that court-ordered app, so we just don't communicate at all. And then Elijah is my neighbor. We're fine to text call. We've never been through the court system. We never did anything like with custody or anything like that.

We just automatically went to 50-50 and we just communicate as needed and we get along. Thank you to Shopify for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. You guys, in case you didn't know, we actually powered our website for the Biswell Beauty makeup company through Shopify. Anytime you start a new business, it's extremely overwhelming, especially your first one. There's just so many things you have to juggle and manage and know how to do. I'm so grateful for platforms like Shopify where they have all the tools ready for you. Everything you need to start selling is included and ready to go from day one with Shopify. Starting from the very moment your first customer is ready to pay, Shopify checkout helps more of them finish their purchases.

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Thank you to Nutraful for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. Summer is full of vacations, weekend getaways, and spending more time outdoors. And when you're packing for a trip, the last thing you want to be worrying about is your hair. That's one reason I really love Nutraful and recommend it as a part of your daily routine. It's helped me in different stages of my life feel more confident about my hair because the thing is, in the summertime, we're getting in the pool, we're getting wet. I know that when my hair is wet, that's when it shows thinning, shedding, and just loss of hair in general more so. No one wants to feel that way in the summertime.

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Nutraful is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you go to Nutraful.com and enter promo code unplanned pod. That's Nutraful.com spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L dot com promo code unplanned pod. Help me understand the court-ordered app versus email communication with your ex. Why the difference is there? Is that to do with not wanting to, I don't know, Like if you're able to, if someone's calling somebody on the phone, it just brings up trauma for you, I'm guessing, to talk to each other. So is it, is it easier for mental health purposes just to keep it all over email? No, I think my ex-husband, because that's my ex-husband. My second son's dad is my ex-husband. I think that it's just best that we keep everything in writing. It has the date, has a timestamp. We've also never gone in front of a judge. We filed for what we have now on our own. Like we sat down in a room with our attorneys, came up with this agreement, filed it with the court. And so it just is more like a seamless and no lines are blurred. There's no questions. to be had. And also, I think it provides like a time. If either one of us is frustrated or has

like an emotionally charged response, it gives the other person time to like sit with it for a minute. You can't just respond right away. There's no texting. There's no calling. There's no, do you know what I'm saying? And so like this morning, he emailed me and said, hey, I just left the school with Lincoln to pick his classes. Can you talk? And I was like, yeah, call me whenever. Schedule it via email. Do the phone call and then summarize it in an email. So it just is more for just everybody, I think. The court ordered one is because we don't get along at all. And it's just a bunch of back and forth. And we're in and out of court all the time. So have you ever tallied up how much money you've spent in court? Yeah. $350,000 in the year of 2025 alone. Oh my goodness. On one dad.

that's not on all four. There was something that came out because I did the cost of custody series on my Patreon and people were like, I guess like the headlines were thinking that maybe that was on, overall it was a little over a million dollars, but it not over 90% of it is on one dad. The rest of them, like Joe and I have not gone to court in probably 10 years, if not more. Havi and I have never gone in front of a judge for custody or our divorce. Everything was outside of a judge. and then the one dad is all court.

How do people that have traditional jobs afford that? They don't. They don't. And that's so sad. And I say that. I talk about that in my series. And I cannot preach enough. And I know that people will say,

oh, well, she's a hypocrite. This isn't somebody to look up to. No, I'm not. And I've never claimed to be. But I am speaking from experience when I tell you, it is best case scenario for the children and best case scenario for the parents to come to an understanding and an agreement outside of court. if you have to get an attorney, okay, but you are going to spend $3,000 to retain this attorney

to sit down in a room and do this paperwork and hash it out for an hour if you have to in a room and then file it with the court, then to go file with the court, and then you're filing rule to show cause, and then you're filing for contempt, and then you're filing for modification, and then you're filing for more time. And then it's the lawyer and the fees. And then you have to take off of work. Do you know what I'm saying? So like, stay out of court.

I get that it can't always be done. but if you can just put your pride aside for one minute and think about the kids love your kids more than you hate the other parent stay out of court does he also have to pay around the same amount no he doesn't have an attorney and he works part-time so then how does that work the court offers leniency to pro se people so because he doesn't have an attorney and because he asks for the court to waive his filing fees they do offer leniency because he doesn't have counsel that's super interesting actually and just so sad it is I wish that we could at least come to an understanding where like we could put the kids first. What are the kids understanding of like what's going on when you're in and out of court with their dad? They know. The kids know. They're five and eight and they know.

That is really hard. I can't even imagine. But it's my fault because I should not have. I mean, if I could have the exact same kids with either no dad or the same dad, I didn't do myself any favors by, you know, having multiple kids' fathers. Do you know what I mean? Like I didn't do myself any favors with that. Does that make you hesitant at all to have more kids at this point in your life? Oh, I got my tubes cut out.

My tubes cut out. Yeah, I made a joke about doing IVF for like Isaac and I to have a kid. But I was, I was being sarcastic. People did not. They didn't understand. Oh, so people took in and ran with it. They said that I did 12 rounds of IVF. And I was like, no, I literally was being sorry.

I was asking him on a podcast like, oh, how many rounds of IVF did we do? Because I got my tubes cut out. and people really thought I was being serious. Okay, wait, but hypothetically, you can. I can't do IVF. Hypothetically. Hypothetically, but like, and it would be insane. It was insane for me to have seven kids.

Like, it would be insane for me to have another one. Hey, I was like, if someone could do it. Listen, I want to move out of Delaware and I don't, so far we're not having any luck of already existing houses with the amount of rooms that we need. So I think we're going to pass on another child. Yeah, how many rooms do you currently have? Six bedrooms, six bath. The twins are in the same room right now.

Six bedrooms, six. That's a big house. It's a really big house. No. No? Probably this size. Like 5,000 square feet. 5,000 square feet.

Yeah. I think it's just all about like the layout. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So like my house is more like, um, like a bigger foundation instead of going up this way. Okay. Is this way? Does that make sense?

Yeah. Um, so trying to figure out and I built this house when I only had four kids and no man. So I was like, I'm building this house. Like it's custom and I have four kids and there's a guest room and there's all these things, right? And then you're like, we'll have all this space. What a mistake that was. So now we're trying to move. And I'm like, how am I going to fit seven kids into a house that's already existing?

But like I don't, how would I build a house out of state? Like, I don't know how I would build a house out of state. So I'm looking at ones that are already built. What is it like, bring your boyfriend home with your ex as the neighbor? You share a driveway? Yeah, we share a driveway. So it like split. So the original farm, his house that he lives in is the original.

farmhouse to the farm and then they subdivided it into four plots. And so I ended up buying the land to build on before he bought his house, the farmhouse. And so when it started building, I had met him. And so we split a driveway. But I mean, it's fine. I don't, I don't mind. I mean, is it a little too close for comfort sometimes? Sure. But other than that, I mean, it hasn't caused any issue so far. As someone that has seven kids with four different dads, what advice would you give the young women about having children? Well, one, wait a little bit longer to have kids, period. But two, you don't need to have a child with every man that you're with.

A baby, sex won't make him love you and a baby won't make him stay. That's really sad. It's really sad. Really sad. But hindsight is always 2020. I didn't know that when I was doing all the things, right? Like when I was, I just wanted to be loved so bad. I wanted to have a family so bad.

And that's where my mind was. I think people look at my situation and they're like, this is insane, like the kids are going to hate her. Like, this is chaotic. I just wanted a family. Like, that's what it was. It wasn't that I was just sleeping around. I was with these people in a relationship with these people and wanted a family. So I think that's where people misunderstand me specifically.

I think, you know, just my take. I think it's pretty incredible what you've been able to do with everything going with everything that's going on in your life. and it has gone on in your life. It is a lot. The fact that you can pay over a million dollars to the courts of Delaware for custody battles is pretty crazy. The fact that, like, you've made that money. I did just pay that attorney off in April.

No way. So three months ago, I was able to pay that attorney off. Yeah. Like, completely sealed the deal. My bill is done, thankfully. What is that, like, having been so involved. I don't know a ton about family court. Like, having been.

in and out of it so much? Like what reform would you like to see? Or if any, if you're like, oh, this is just how it is? I can't think of any like reform. The thing is that where I live, you can waive mediation. And so for some people, it's not great because then we're seeing, we're in front of the judge all the time where mediation can be really beneficial for some people to not have to go in front of the judge.

And so it gives them kind of what I was describing earlier, like meeting up with your attorney, sitting in a room, trying to. to come up with like something that works for everybody that you kind of don't like, but it works versus getting it to the judge. I don't necessarily, where I'm at, I wouldn't necessarily say any reform. But I think not allowing people to waive mediation, I think would be first. What's the benefit of not taking it to the judge? The judge could ultimately decide what he feels or she feels is in the best interest of the child

and he doesn't know that child or those children. And so you might have been able to come up with something with your previous partner that works kind of for both of you, but best interests of the child where the judge might say, okay, well, now it's this and that doesn't work for anybody. That makes sense. And that's in Delaware, I can't speak for other states. In Delaware, if the judge rules on whatever your custody order is,

you have to keep that in place for a minimum of two years. Okay. You cannot refile unless there are extenuating circumstances that would allow them to change. whatever was ordered for those two years. Whereas mediation can be reviewed. Yeah. Like if you do it on your own and you file paperwork on your own,

you can always go back and modify if something changes or, you know, whatever that looks like. With how much you've been in the courts, have you ever considered becoming a lawyer? Yes, that's like my dream. Remember that was her plan last time? That's right. Yeah, when the twins go to kindergarten,

so they're two and a half. So when they go to kindergarten, I really, really want to go to law school. I wouldn't do family law, though. In no world would I do law. I would never do family law. I could not imagine. Nobody wins.

and child and nobody wins in family law nobody. I feel like if I were you, I'd be watching legally blonde every night. Just to study up. Well, I've had a couple lawyers on my podcast because I'm like, I need to pick their brains. Like I need to know all the things. So yeah. What area of law interests you? Entertainment.

Because I also have experience with that. And you guys know Nicole. She's been my attorney, my entertainment attorney for eight or nine years. And I just love her. And I love that I could negotiate for people. I've been on both sides of it. So I feel like I could make a good entertainment. an attorney if I'm I don't know if I would litigate though like I feel like that would be a lot.

Something I thought was very interesting is you were on 16 pregnant as a 16 year old obviously now now your son Elliot he's 16 how does that feel that your your son that was on the show when you were 16 is now the age yeah I were when you had him he's a better human than me though like he's doing all things like I feel like I was missing so much in so many areas of my life that led me down that path. You know what I mean? My son, I mean, he's in National Honor Society. He's driving. He gets straight A's. He volunteers all the time. Like, he's fluent in sign language. Like, he's just such a good kid. And I just feel like, I don't know. Like, I got really lucky, I feel, because I don't know how he turned. Like with a mom like me, I don't

know how he turned out like that. You know? So you're cutting yourself short. He's, he's, he's a good kid and I'm just glad that he's I tell him all the time that he I was doing way worse things than he is so when he's having like a little situation I'm like it could be worse like it's okay we're going to get through this it could be so much worse and he's such a good kid and he's mostly positive about everything so he seems so sweet and he has gone through a lot since the last time we've talked to he like as far as like even changing his name and he's so good at like sharing his own story and we'll let him do that too but as a mom what is that like with your child like going by a different name than you gave him?

I'm okay with it because it's his middle name and I think people are so confused but people go by their middle names all the time. I will say I was a little surprised to learn that he he had done it at school before I knew. Oh really? Yeah and so he switched from a middle school in our school in the town that we are at and in Delaware you can go to any school that you want. You don't have to like pay tuition or whatever. You can literally go anywhere. So he was like mom I want to go to the school. He got into it. And I got paperwork his freshman year. And it said, Elliot. And I was like, hold up. Wait, what is this? And he's like, yeah. I was like, wait, are you going by Elliot? And he was like, yeah. And I said, oh, okay. Like, how long has that been going on? He's like, oh, school year. And I said,

okay. So, like, are you writing that on your papers? And he's like, yeah. And I said, what are the teachers call you? And he's like, Elliot. And I was like, okay. Like, if that's how you feel, like, I'm proud of him that he was able to make that executive decision for himself. He did not ask how we felt about it and I'm perfectly fine with it. It's so harmless. But if it feels true and authentic to him, I'm proud of him for making that decision at, I guess he was 14 at the time. So I'm proud of him for it. Yeah. Yeah. That would be weird to find out in hindsight, though. You're like, they all know you as this, but we're all calling you this. Well, I felt bad. I was like, if you wanted to go by Elliot, I more so felt bad in hindsight, because I was like,

oh my gosh. Like, did you have, did you say that to me? And I wasn't listening. Like tell me and he's like, no, I just, it was just easier to go by that at school. What does it feel like to be the breadwinner when it comes to the relationships that you're in? I don't want to do it anymore. I want someone else to make the money. I hate it. It's not a good time. And I would imagine that my partners feel some level of resentment throughout our relationship.

I would imagine. I don't know that to be true, but I don't like it. Why resentment to you? Well, I think that in today's society, I mean, always really is like men are the breadwinners, men are the providers, women are the nurturers, they should, you know, be home and be the homemakers. And I think that I didn't have a choice. Like I have built everything that I've built off of pure survival and desperation. So it's like I didn't know that it was going to come to this. But I think that I don't know.

And it also, I don't want to like hurt my partner because I am the breadwinner. I don't want us to not feel like equals. Does that make sense? Do you think it would feel that way if it was the other way around where your partner was the breadwinner? Or is it because you are the breadwinner winner as a woman? I'm just so curious. That is such a good question. I don't know.

Yeah. I know that when I wasn't the breadwinner, when I was with Joe, and obviously we were young so it could be a little bit different as adults, I felt I felt helpless and I felt like I didn't offer anything in the relationship. And so now I feel like this is the only thing I can offer. And that's also really hard. Like I really struggle with that a lot. That's interesting that you've been on both sides of the equation and you didn't like either side. Do you think maybe somewhere in the middle would be your perfect situation where you're like making some money but you're not like fully responsible for paying all the bills? I mean, what's the place that you see hope in

for the situation you're in? I think that the percentage situation has worked out pretty well where regardless of who makes what instead of going 50-50, you're going 20%. Because my 20% is still 20%, but it doesn't equal to your 20% of bills, right? Or mortgage or whatever it is. I will say when I was married previously,

we had a good system going where it was like he paid the mortgage and I kind of paid everything else. And so it was more balanced, I feel. And so there was never, at least on my end, I never felt like we were not equal in that way. But now I think that especially where I live, it's hard because nobody, male or female, aside from like, I'm talking about like creators and things like that. Like nobody's on my playing field.

So it's really difficult for me. And I never want my partner, especially like Isaac, for example, he's in the room, right? Like I never want Isaac or someone to feel less than because I am the breadwinner. And I don't want him to have. resentment towards me. I don't want to have resentment towards him. So I just, I don't know if there will ever be a balance that will come close to like a 50-50 situation in terms of like what we bring to the table, not necessarily like exactly 50% of our incomes. Something that really stuck with me, like I still think about even two years after a conversation was our conversation about like

cosmetic procedures and surgeries and like the work you've had done. And I just found that conversation to be so refreshing with you because I, I mean, it's no secret that that is often taboo in today's culture. And you're just so great at speaking on it because also I feel like you're just, you're so candid with both sides because you were, you did recognize you're like, yeah, I got this because I was insecure about this one thing. And I wanted to change it about myself. And we were talking before we started filming.

We were like, hey, you know what? Since we've last chatted, I've gotten my teeth done. Matt got his hair done. And the hair is much lower than it used to be. It's right here. New hairline. I wouldn't even have known. Like, you're, I wouldn't have, if you didn't tell me, I would not have known that you guys.

They look great. Everything looks great. I also had several for several procedures. I don't know what I said last time if I said I was done. I think you were in Phoenix for some sort of procedure, right? Or to get some, to go to an appointment? You know what it was? It was a consultation.

Oh, okay. Did you go through that? Not in Phoenix, but yes. I ended up getting a breast reduction. So I went from a 44, 46 triple D down to a B cup. And then I also did- Do insurance cover that? No.

I mean, I guess they could have, but I didn't end up opting for it. Okay. Because it's like, yeah, are they heavy? Sure, but like. But it was just one of those things where I was like, I'll just do it. At the same time as my breast reduction, I did a scar revision. So in 2016, I had a tummy tuck. and then I had in 20203 I had a C-section.

So I had them move my tummy tuck scar down to combine it with my C-section scar. And so I did all of that at the same time. That's right, because the tummy tuck came before the C-section. Yes, yep, exactly right. So I had to move it down. So now my scar is just one scar instead of two. Which one hurt more of the C-section or the tummy tuck? Neither.

I lost a all feeling. So I never felt it. So when my C-section scar reopened after I had my C-section, I never felt it bust open. I felt the blood on my legs because I didn't have any feeling. Wait. Was that graphic? No, but I just can't quite fathom that, having had a C-section.

They told me not to do stuff. And I went and did dishes. And when I was at the dishes, I thought it was hot water running down my legs from doing the dishes. But I looked down and it was my C-section scar had opened up. Do you still not have feeling? No, I still don't. From my belly button down. I don't have feeling.

Oh, wow. From cosmetic surgery. Does that bother you? Oh, from the cosmetic surgery. I don't care. You're like, I don't want to feel it. I don't want to. Whatever happens, happens.

It's none of my business. Why don't I feel like that would freak me out? Yeah. And then I got my double chin cut off last, in August. Oh, wow. Yeah, I did like a whole, I don't know the exact name as I want to say. It's like a necklift, half facelift. I don't know the exact terms.

You could go ask Dr. Tina Ho. She's great. I do got my double chin cut off. So you guys can compare the snatched. Snatched. Snatched. Snatched.

Wow. Of all those procedures, which, one hurt the most. My chin. Because I wasn't a candidate for liposuction because it was like genuinely saggy skin and that's just genetic thing that my family has. And so this was, I mean, my face was like, it was, it was bad. So it swelled up after the surgery and then it went back down. Matt, it was so bad. Oh goodness. It was horrendous and then I had lip paralysis for three months or four months. Okay, see, that must have been really bad because I feel like last time you said that liposuction, you felt like you were dying. Yeah. No, the face was worse.

50-50, but like leaning more towards my face was worse because also I'm in front of cameras all the time. And I feel like you're one tough cookie. Like I feel like you're like. Yeah, usually I can thug it out, but not my face. I was suicidal. Like it was bad. How did you eat? Oh, I was going to eat.

You were there to a little? Oh, yeah. Are you? Oh my gosh. I'll send it to you guys. You guys can put it on the screen if you want for the video. It was bad. Was it still, was it worth it?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, I don't know. Like, I still look in the mirror and I'm like, I have a jaw now. Oh, I'm glad you're happy with it. And you can't. Oh, yeah, that one was bad.

Oh, is it a slightly graphic? From this far away, I'll be okay. Whoa, my gosh. That looks painful. Yeah, it was really, really gross. Put that one on the screen. Yeah, I'll send them to you guys. At trigger warning.

Trigger warning. You mentioned doing the dishes and bleeding after the C-section. Okay, like as the breadwinner, how, like, which, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Because I was probably out of work. I couldn't work. I'm trying to make a bridge here and it's not really working, but I'm going to try, okay? I guess my question is about, like, the household duties of, like, you know, laundry, dishes, cooking food.

Hired out. Hired out. You hired it all out. Pretty much. So you have someone that, like, comes to your house. You have, like, a private chef that cooks for the kids? No, I have a house manager, but she's, like, family. And she does my laundry.

and she cooks sometimes, so she doesn't cook all the time. We cook sometimes, but everything else she managed is all of it. And she makes good food. And she makes amazing food. Yeah. And she teaches my kid Spanish. She's amazing. And she's just, she's like a mom, but I, she's too young to be my mom. Yeah. So she's only in her 40s. So she's too young to be my mom. But I would call her mom if I could. And her husband is my, I literally call him dad. Like her husband, yeah, there's a little bit of age gap there. So I call her husband my dad. Like literally, if you ever hear my dad, like literally, if you ever hear My dad's dead, my real dad. And so, oh, he died since I talked to you guys last.

I'm so sorry. Oh, I didn't know him. Remember? We talked about this. Wait, did we talk about this? I don't know if we did. I just, that's fine. So anyway, so my dad who's not my dad is, he's married to her.

And when I let go of my previous nanny, I was like, I want to help the people close to me. And she wasn't working at the time. She had just moved from Puerto Rico to the mainland. And so I was like, would she want to do this? Yeah. And we're like, yeah. That brings up the topic of hiring, like, close friends and family. Never.

Don't do it anymore. Never again. Except for your boyfriend. Except for my boyfriend. But to be fair, he's a videographer. He's a photographer. It, like, makes sense. Been taking videos that I'm like, I'm excited to see the video that you're working on.

He does a good job. Like, you like never would never do it again right here. No, I think. I would not. He would not. Yeah. I mean, I have had really. great luck with my dad and his wife, but other than that, I would say no. Don't do it.

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Well, I didn't know him. I got a lot of closure before he died. I saw him two weeks before he died. That was only the second time I had ever met him. Oh, wow. Yeah. So the first time I met him was on national television. Oh, wow.

And then I didn't see him for, I guess, 16 years. My aunt called me and she was like, you know, it's not looking good. You should see him. So I flew down with my sister and we saw him. And I got a lot of answers. Like I got so many answers that I didn't get when I was. 16 and when I was filming the show because I don't think I was mature enough to ask the questions that I should have. And so a lot of people were like, why would you wait until his deathbed?

But it was like, when was another opportunity? I hadn't talked to him since I met him the first time. So I got a lot of answers and I'm at peace and I hope he really like was at peace when he died. I kind of feel like he was able to kind of go peacefully because he got to see. my sister and me after, you know, my sister's 30. So, and he hadn't seen her in 25 years either. So it was, I think, just peace for all of us. What was the question that you asked him that you didn't know to ask when you were 16? Um, why he gave up, why he didn't try for us. And I think at, I might have asked it when he, when I was 16, but I don't think it, because the cameras were there and it was just less, uh, private. Um, it was more like, um, it was more like,

in passing and it was like, well, you know, I knew you'd come find me, right? But when we went down and I saw him before he passed away, he gave me the full story, full details, full disclosure with everything about why he gave up, everything that he did before he, quote unquote, gave up. And it just gave me completely new perspective on just dads in general, not even just dads in the 90s and why they would give up, but just dads in general. Did it help humanize him? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I get I my dad my it's weird to call my dad because he didn't raise me but um he it humanized him a lot and I could sort of understand kind of why he was the way he was and why things kind of were um like why we why we were estranged did you go to the funeral I tried but that was during the um I had a flight

book to go to the funeral and then it was that during the TSA or something that you thing where all these flights were getting canceled and people were getting stuck where they were. And I was going to go down for the funeral and make literally, like it was like a 24 hour trip situation. And I was so scared that I would be stuck there and not be able to get back to my babies. So I ended up not being able to go. My sister went. She lives in Texas though.

So it was a little bit different. And so I didn't get to go, but I would have loved to. I did try. So. That's really cool that it's not great how it happened, you know, with not having him present your entire life. you could reach some type of closure and get some answers. For sure.

And I feel like for a long time, after I met him the first time, I was really bitter. And I kind of went through that on and off throughout the years between the first time and the second time. And then by the second time, I felt so much peace. It was, it was, and I hope for him too. Like, I really do. What are you doing as a mom now to seven kids? I want my kids to have good relationships with their dads, even if I don't. And so I, and they know that.

Like I would never intentionally keep my kids from their dads no matter how much I don't like them at the time or, you know, things like that. So I think just reminding them that we're all human, the parents, we're all doing this for the first time. So whether their dad and I get along or not, it is important for you to have a relationship with them. And so I can't dictate how that's going to look, but give them a chance, make sure that, you know, you hear them out too because it's not just what I say goes, right?

Like you have another parent. And so I do try to facilitate them to maintain a relationship with their dads. On the topic of kids, you've said that you wish, I'm not going to quote you correctly, but you wish on anyone you love that they could have twins. What's so special about, I mean, I get it. I'm like, I would love to have twins. I think that sounds so fun. But what about that bond or what is it?

It is the, obviously my singletons are great. I love them all. But there is something so special about twins and their bond and like watching them together. I've never experienced, obviously never experienced anything like it until I had twins. And so it's so fascinating. I don't even know on any other word, but it's a different kind of bond, I think, than the rest of their siblings. And I don't want to exclude the rest of their siblings. So if you ever watch this, I'm really sorry. That's not what I meant. I just mean like, it's, they were in the womb together. Yeah, what type of twins are they? They're fraternal twins.

And my girl is, so verse is the boy. He's baby A. And then. And Valley is the, wait, did I say that right? So versus the boy, he's baby A. Valley is the girl, she's baby B, and they're fraternal. They're born four minutes apart. And I don't know. There's just something about their closeness and their bond that is a little bit different than the rest of the kids.

And I know twins is crazy because you're like, you have to do two of everything. But listen, if you weren't already pregnant, I would wish twins on you. And in the future, if you have more, I hope you have twins. We still wish it. Yeah, okay. Well, the funny thing is I was with my hairstyle. I don't know if I told you this last time. She's a twin and she wanted twins.

And so I was in the hair chair and I'm like trying to manifest twins for her. I'm like, oh, yes, because she was trying. I was like, I hope you have twins. Like you're going to have twins. She loves being a twin. And then the next time I went for a hair appointment, I was pregnant with twins. So it went a little too hard. It's spread.

The wrong one. I love them though. I love them. The wrong one. It was supposed to be for her, not for me. Oh. Yeah. Now I'm so invested.

I hope your hairdresser has twins one day too. No, she's one and done. she said. Okay. Okay. Yeah. It's fine. It's fine. How is this summer going? I mean, you're going to 23 different cities. You're doing, you know, shows all over the country. I think you're even going to London, which is really cool. My kids are playing soccer in London. So I was like, since we're already going to be over there, I might as well do a tour date. I cry a lot. I do cry a lot because I'm tired. You know what I mean? I don't know how you do it. I don't have a choice. Like, I think about every day how am I going to maintain what I have built for seven kids? Because as you

guys know in this industry, like it's ever changing, ever evolving. People, creators disappear and then new creators pop up and people get canceled. And how long can I hold on to this to be able to support seven kids with the life that we've built so far? Like I stress about it all the time. You know what I mean, hopefully, if you see me on the streets, just know it was pure desperation. I'll do whatever it takes. Honestly, if it's not too much, is it okay if we ask Isaac a couple questions? I'm also just genuinely very interested in you because like your life has probably changed more in the past year than it has maybe ever.

I don't know. I mean, you went from, I'm guessing not like having kids to then being around seven kids. So that's a big change. Yeah. So I do have a daughter. You have a daughter? I do have one. That's a completely different scenario.

That's a completely different scenario. Prior to Kail and I, you know, dating, like, I just, I worked and fished. Like, I just, that was it. Yeah. So Kail and I, we are dating and my life has went from just fishing all the time and just relax into. hey kids got school sports we're on tour

a whole bunch of other stuff you know like our days if I were to show you our calendar and send everybody in to show them my phone is oh it's in the pocket I mean it sounds like you're in a different city every day right now yeah so this is just our calendar for the month and things get added things get added daily and

so you really have to click on it kind of like every two hours. And I'm noticing right here it says have all kids and it has like a big line where you have kids. Yep. So now we game plan. When we have the kids and when we don't

have the kids. So every other week for the summer is like I know what I can plan for the weeks that I have the kids and the weeks I don't. So that's how it like. And you have kids with you right now? No. Oh, you don't. So I scheduled the tour so that all the tour travel is when I'm when the kids with their dads because we do 50-50 summers.

Got it. So the tour was able to be scheduled. Live Nation really helped me out with that because my first tour, it didn't work out that way. I, like, sent them dates. I didn't have my kids. And then they still sent me on tour when I had them. So this time, Live Nation really worked with me, and they scheduled just the days I didn't have my kids. For people that buy tickets to the tour, what can they expect?

Um, I don't think your audience is buying tickets to my tour. Really? Abby. It's a little unhinged. Oh, well, I ate a worm the other day. You ain't a worm? Yeah, I don't think that it's... Tell them what you did to me.

You shocked him with a dog collar. I don't necessarily think it's your audience's vibe. Really? I didn't even sign up for it. I would just volunteer. Is this tour a bit more on the PG-13 side? No, it's rated R. Oh, rated R.

No children, no under 18. Like, this is not your audience. You know what I mean? Okay. Gosh, now I want to know what's happening. I guess we need to get tickets to your tour and come check it out. I don't know that you. you'll invite me back after.

So let's just keep the relationship where it is, you know? No, it's a good time. It's a good time. It's like that. Isaac, how are you dealing with being in the public eye now? Because I'm guessing you weren't before. I wasn't. I didn't really care for social media like that.

Fishing doesn't have a lot of eyes. Not a lot of eyes and fishing. Yeah. Now that I'm kind of in the public eye, I mean, I still just lay low, do my part. I don't post any like crazy social media things. I post things that I would regularly, like if Kail and I weren't together. And 99.9% of it is just fishing. He does a really good job not responding to anything.

Yeah. Like even if it's a headline about him, he will not respond. He doesn't comment. I mean, maybe troll back in his own comments, but he's not. Yeah. I've just always learned like sometimes no response is the best response. Yeah. You know, so I just let go. I'm the bigger person.

Earlier we were talking with Kail about like the conversation of her being the breadwinner. I'm curious from your perspective what that's like being in a relationship like that. I don't really look at it as like the breadwinner, right? I just kind of look at it as like, you know, she does her part and I do my part. So like, you know, she owns her own network, her podcasting network. She has three podcasts going. And here I am. If I'm behind the scenes, taking pictures, videos, editing, you know, whatever the case may be,

making sure, you know, part of the house is, you know, being ran, you know, just I do my part in certain ways to where I don't look at it and say, hey, well, she's the breadwinner. I just look at it like we're a team. You handle this aspect. I handle this aspect. And at the end of the day, we come together and, you know, the house is running. Yeah. I've been in my fair share of relationships, you know, before.

Not many, but like my relationships were long. I look at it like I don't want to date. Yeah. You know, like I'm past that dating stage of life. Like I want to build and I want to create and I want to, you know, wake up to the same person every day, go to sleep to the same person every day. I don't want a revolving door. Yeah. Right.

And it took me a lot of, you know, maturing, you know, for myself like, what, the frontal lobe? I think my frontal lobe really started to develop when I was in my late 20s. So by the time, you know, I got myself together and it was like, hey, like, I just want one solid individual in my life. You know, sun up, sundown. And I told her actually when her and I initially, you know, got together, it was, I want to learn and I want to see every phase of your moon. And sure he did. He sure did. Very quickly.

And still do. What does that mean? It means I have 12 personalities, Abby, and he's learning all about them every day. Yeah, like, you know, when I don't have my Prozac and my Adderall. Yeah. It's just more or less like you can portray being happy go lucky every day, right? But you're going to get tired because eventually when you're stressed, you're stressed. When you're mad, you're mad.

I want to see every phase and every side of you. I know life isn't smiles and butterflies every day, but I want to know you when you're at your lowest and I want to know you when you're at your highest. So that's what I mean when it's I want to learn every phase of your moon. What does marriage mean to you? A family and a unit and a team and everything I didn't have growing up. And he knows that. He recognized that very early on that I just want to be loved.

I just want to have a family. And so I think that marriage. would solidify that. Not that we're not already a family, but I think I was too young the first time I got married. And no disrespect to you, but had I known more or waited a little bit longer, that marriage might have worked out.

But we were so young. And so I think that now that both of us have... You were 20 years old and married. Yeah. Well, how old were you guys when you were? We got married at 20 and 21. See? Okay.

But for me, I couldn't be married at 20 years old. Yeah, I tried it. It didn't work. Like, just the people I hung out with my mindset at the time. Like, I wasn't ready for that commitment at 20 years old. I wasn't either. I didn't even know if I was going to stay in college, drop out, join the military. I didn't know what I was going to do.

So trying to commit to somebody or something at 20 years old, that was extremely challenging. But you guys also had good childhoods, right? We talked about that last time. We did. So I think that we had very similar upbringing. So I think that we also have always operated at, on a completely different. So many things change.

It's not like we're just like mega mature. You got, listen, when you guys, you know, I'm sure have disagreements or something, you know, it's okay, well, you're upset. We'll come together at some point. We'll just talk about it. And for me, if I'm 20 years old, it's. We weren't able to do that. The hell with your opinion, I'm right. Or even though I'm wrong, I'm still right.

Like, I, I, he went to high school with my oldest son's dad. And we always say that if we tried to be together before we be, before we got together, we wouldn't have lasted. We wouldn't have been. That's interesting. Because I told you guys earlier, I had cheated in the past. He's also cheated. Like, we would have just cheated on each other.

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Experience the new standard in comfort and support with honey love. I want to ask this question in the most respectful way because it's just, it's like it's a, it's a touchy one. I guess, I guess. I'm like, gosh, dang. I always do this. I always like set it up to be like such a big thing. And I'm like, oh my gosh. It's not even that crazy big question.

But I feel like a lot of guys, you know, especially with Kale coming out of a fresh breakup, having seven kids, a lot of men would like, like, you know, kale's amazing, might be like, oh, I like this person, but then they find out about everything going on. And they would probably, most guys would probably run away. They probably would go, oh, I don't know if I want to raise seven kids. I don't want to, I don't know if I want to deal with the baggage of someone overcoming a breakup. What was it about? Or the four baby dads? Or the, yeah, the four. You can just call it for what it is, Matt. It's fine. I'm not offended. So I guess that's what I'm asking is like what was it about kale that made you go,

oh, no, I don't, I don't care about all that. I'm going to, I want to, I want to be with her despite all of those things. Oh, I fell in love in 24 hours. And you did, 24 hours. You didn't care about the kids and the baby daddies. I didn't give a damn. Her and I, you know, I didn't know, like off, off the bat that she was fresh off a breakup. But it came out at some point. and we were just supposed to just meet up and just, you know, go grab lunch or something like that. And let's say we had the conversation last Tuesday. And she's like, hey, I'm free next Saturday. I don't have my kids.

We can go grab lunch. Cool. The next week comes. Here comes Thursday. Hey, I'm sorry, but the only way we can hang out is if we go to Texas. I had to work. I forgot that I have to be in Texas on Saturday. work. So I'm like, yeah, you know, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I don't work weekends. I work Monday through Friday. So I get off of work Friday. She's in a hotel in Philadelphia. Um, hang out, border plane, go to Texas. And as soon as, and this is crazy. Your first date, you're flying to Texas. Yeah. I hadn't seen him in four or five years. Yeah. It was long. It was just the vibe.

It was the vibe. It was the personality. It was the wittiness. The, the, the, just being unhinged. Just really, no, I'm serious. So I knew that I loved her. And it was crazy because I've never felt this way. So we get back from Texas after hanging out for 24 hours.

Give her a hug. Probably a little kiss. Probably. Probably. And I start. crying. He leaves and I start crying because I'm like I'm never going to see him again. We had all this great time. I fell in love with this man. I didn't tell him that. It was awesome. And then I'm like he's going to be a douchebag. So she's crying in her Denali driving back to Delaware.

I lived in the Poconos in Pennsylvania. So I cry on the way home to the Poconos. Babe, you don't have to say that. My bad. I'm on the phone with my brother. He's like, hey man how was Texas he he asked about you not being scared of the kids yeah I'm getting there so so sorry no no no so I'm on the phone my brother and I'm just explaining everything and I'm explaining

how the vibe went and all of that so I come down to Delaware at some point right first day I thought there were seven kids at the house I say hello to her and I'm outside

playing basketball or football. I didn't see him for like two, three hours. He's just with the kids. Just out there. Okay, you're on my team, you're on my team. Used to her on that side. Let's go. I'm all-time quarterback. And I didn't tell the kids who he was or anything because, I mean. So it was just, it felt so natural. On top of it, I coached football at one point. And then also I'm the youngest of six. So the kids didn't bother you. So the kids didn't bother me. What about the kids' dads? No, because the past is the past. to be fair. Right.

So you can't always live in a past. You live and learn and you continue. And if there are people who still live in the past and they talk about whatever it can be, you're just reminiscent on old things. This is nothing that is current. So for me, it was like, it is what it is. I don't have the best past.

She doesn't have the best past. My past is the past. Hers is to hers. Let's build. Let's go. We start from here. We work on our foundation. We work out the nooks and crannies.

And we take off. I like that. That's good. That was nice. That was a good story. So you went on that the first date was to Texas or you had gone on one date and then from that one date. We never made it to lunch.

We went because we were going to go to lunch on Saturday. But I was like, oh, actually have to be to work in Texas on Saturday. So the only way we can go to lunch is in Texas. Okay. So we had to go to Texas for our first date. Wow. And we might have been run. I think we flew out at like three in the morning.

I had just got them working 12 hours. So I got off of work at probably, I'll say midnight, go home, shower, and then drive right down to Philly. I don't sleep. We're on the plane from Philly down to Dallas, Texas, and we're up. Ooh. And we made it. We survived. Wow.

So it's been great. It's been fun. If you guys, I'm guessing, we brought up the marriage. conversation. If marriage is happening, what are your thoughts on a pre-up? Is that something that would happen? I think so. I think so. My, I've never thought about it. My last attorney had told me that if you have anything that is valued at more $10,000 or more, you should get a pre-up. So even if it's assets, the mistake that I made in my last, in my divorce was not having a pre-up. And then we owned two houses at that time. And so he was trying to take

the one that I was living in. And so it was one of those things where like if we had a pre-up, that wouldn't have been a situation. It ended up all working out. The judge was like, or was it the judge? One of the attorneys was like, you're going to get this house, you're going to get this house,

that's it. And I think just to avoid that, like he does have his own stuff. And so I wouldn't ever want him to feel like I was going to take that from him. Yeah. I think we should, we would probably have a, maybe.

We haven't really talked about it. I've never thought about it. It's never crossed my mind because for me, it's like you get married for a reason. so I understand divorces do happen but that's not in my vision or even in my mind it's you know this till death do us part

actually okay no before we wrap we have to play a game with you guys okay I'm scared can I have a couple curious questions that are just not related I don't really know how to tie in but I just want to go for it we're also not pressed for time I know that you're not only an author you're also an avid reader yeah

And I just wanted to just have a minute for book talk. Yeah, we should. But no, what are you reading right now? Okay, no, I was going to ask you that question. I'm reading Kite Runner. Kite Runner is an incredibly sad story about Afghanistan from like the 1960s all the way to, I don't know, present time, basically. And then I'm also listening to Mad Mabel on audio.

I've heard of that one. Thank you to everybody that submitted questions on the unplanned podcast Instagram. Our first question is, do you stay in touch with any of the other teen moms? I talked to Kate and Ty a lot. They're assigned to my network and they have a podcast. So I talked to them. They just did guesting on my tour. And sometimes Chelsea and sometimes Macy.

Oh, and then Ashley. I'll see Ashley on this week. Nice. Yeah. Okay. You do. Yeah, yeah. And it's been a while.

It's been a long time. I haven't seen Ashley since I think 2018. So it's been a long time. But I congratulated her when she graduated from college and things like that. So like on social media. Next question is who is. your favorite ex, Laffy Face?

My favorite ex? Probably Elijah. Canl is one of the only people you can ask that question. I just want to acknowledge that. Honestly, probably Elijah. He doesn't bother me. He doesn't bother us and he's chill. We didn't even never been to court, so I'd say him.

Nice. Hey, not going to court is a perk. It's a win. That's a win. Okay, next is how is it having a girl after having so many boys? Okay, to be fully honest, about this. It wasn't much different at first. And I was surprised by that. I thought it was going to be different right off the bat. It was not because when they're infants, she was wearing a brother's

hand-me-downs, right? Like, it was not. But now getting to do her hair and she's so sassy. Nobody prepared me for that part of it. She's very sassy and she loves pink, everything pink. She is a little scrapbeat with the boys. She also loves pink. And I absolutely love that for her. Aw. Yeah. Why don't you tell them how she says the word strawberry? Straw babies. Can I please have some straw babies? Is it going to kill you when she starts actually saying strawberry because I think about that.

I know. I hate it. I don't like, I don't want to correct them because I want them to say the wrong thing forever. I know. So cute. Kaylee says, how often do you get to have all your children all at once?

Every other week. Every other week. So during the school year, I have 90-10 custody. So during the school year, they're always with each other pretty much. And then they go to their dads on the same weekends. And then in the summertime, I have all the kids on the same week. And then they go to their dads on the same week. So when I have them, I have them all together.

Yeah, I did that on purpose so that they would be together. It's all coordinated. Yeah. Sierra says, would you ever allow your child to go on teen mom if the rules were reversed? No, my kid, no kid of mine would go on TV as a pregnant teenager. I wholeheartedly think that nobody. was looking out for us. It worked out, but I don't think anyone was looking out for it. I didn't even have an attorney look at my contract. So I think about it so often because I think there's

still our series on like reality TV series of teen moms. Unexpected on TLC. I was going to say on TLC. What are your thoughts on that? Oh, I went, oh, I went into a tangent about that. I don't love it. I don't think it's great. And I also think that one of the main character, like main character, that's not good. One of the main people on that show, I think the mom, like, encouraged it. And I think that it's almost like undoing the work that teen mom in the beginning was trying to do was to show people that this is really hard.

And, you know, one of us is crying. One of us can't pay for something. One of us, you know, our boyfriend's breaking up with us. One of us doesn't have parents, right? Like in the beginning years of teen mom where it was doing the work, I think the unexpected series is kind of, of undoing that. I've seen a lot of clips for it and it was surprising to me that this was current.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, yeah. Yeah. Interesting. You'd be a good person to consult about that. Well, if they ever have any reunions in the future, replace Dr. Drew with me. You're hired as far as I'm concerned.

I can speak from experience. I feel like people would watch for sure. Sign me up. Brittany says tips for getting through the newborn trenches. You've done it. six times. Yeah. Once double.

I will say the first year for every single one of them was the hardest for me. I don't know if you felt that way with the sleepless nights was so hard or the before I learned about baby carriers and like the ergo. We love baby carriers. Oh my gosh. Well, I didn't know in the beginning. And so when you're either having to hold them all the time or you just lay them down and they do nothing but you have to be careful, you can't put them on a couch.

You can't put them on the bed, but you don't want to put them on the floor, especially if you have pets. That was really hard for me. So sleep when, let the dishes pile up. Let the dishes pile up. Order takeout and sleep with that baby when that baby sleeps. Sounds good, but I know it won't happen. Our whole, our babies, both of them, the whole first, like, four months,

they were just, like, strapped to Matt during the day. Like, or either one of us. They just needed to be worn. Yeah, they wouldn't, they couldn't sleep unless we were wearing them. I was riding Matt Matthew's horse. Sorry to open old wounds. I-L-L-Y. I don't know the context.

It's not sexual. Okay. It's not. I have no word. What is that question? Where was this going? Help. Oh, wow.

This interview just keeps surprising. You know what this is? Yeah, he was there. I help record it. I'm going to show you. You'll understand. Who's Matt Matthews? He's a comedian and he's not, I mean, if you're looking to tap into somebody else's

audience, definitely have him on, but I'm going to show you what it is. You're not ready. He's a funny guy. I basically almost died. Matt, make him stop. Make him stop. Whoa. Whoa.

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. It felt insane on that horse.

Like, I just knew I was going to die. That is dangerous. That is really dangerous. I didn't have a helmet. Almost. But the gates were closed. Yeah, no helmet. No.

Well, and my luggage was all lost at the airport. So I had flown to Alabama. I didn't, I just did that in the airport close. I didn't even get to shower or anything. We had just gotten there two hours before. And so the gates closed to his property. And if they weren't closed, that horse, that's why the horse came to the stop that it did. And I came forward.

But if it didn't, I would be, I would be a dead woman for sure. But then I started to slide off and was able. But, I mean, you know, memories. Do you have any injuries from that? I could not walk right for about three weeks. Like my inner thighs were in so much pain. And I was just like, it was, it was bad. I was like walking like a zombie.

You stayed so calm. Well, if I freaked out, what would have happened? He said, whoa. That's what he taught me to do, and then it didn't listen to me. Yeah, he goes, kale. But this was also the thing is that she was giving, she was giving the horse two different signs. My legs were not tight enough, so they're slapping against his side, telling him to go off,

and then I'm pulling back saying, whoa, so I was confused. It was my fault. She's like, well. Well, I don't know about that. Wow, that was, you're such a good sport. You are a good sport. Brittany says, baby names you loved but never used. Oh, I'm so sad.

I'll read them. You have a list on your phone? And I keep adding to it. And you keep adding to it. Wait, why would you keep adding to it if you're not going to have any more? Because, I mean, maybe my grandkids. Hey, that's an idea. Okay, number one girl name in the whole world, Navy.

Cute. Sayla Sway Miller for a girl Call her Millie for short Or Mills for a boy Easton He's from Easton

Indigo Call her Indy Meyer Major Ocean Teo Monty Road Seal Shadow but call her shady Sunday

But call her sunny And wady She came prepared Yeah I'm I'll never get to use them But I love how quickly You pulled up that list

That's how you know She's done That's a pin That's how you know She's done It was sad But it's I think it's time, you know.

Last user submitted a question, or user audience question. Amelia says, Amelia, yeah, I think it's Amelia. What is the most rewarding thing about being a mom of seven? I just love watching the siblings. I didn't grow up with my siblings. I met my sister when I was 19. So seeing my kids interact with each other is always, I mean, they never cease to amaze me. They're either fighting in some way or just being really sweet to each other.

And I love that. I think it's really cool to watch. That is my favorite too. Yeah. I think even having two. Yeah, no, I think even having two, you see it. And I, like, little bond is, like, so sweet. Yeah.

Okay, next, we have agree to disagree. So I'm going to say a prompt, and then you can either agree or disagree with it. And you guys can both play. Okay. Cool. Okay. Okay. Okay.

First up is money can buy happiness. Agree or disagree. Disagree. Agree. Why do you agree? Because money can buy your time back. And so, like, if you have money to hire help, first, certain things, then you get your time back to go do stuff with your loved ones. Why do you disagree?

Just because if you're looking at, what's the word, monetary, monetary things, like, you can't take any of it with you. So happiness, like, to me, it starts at the core. So that's why. I think we're both right. I like it. I like, I like, I like that you guys had a compelling arguments. Yeah, different, different takes there. Yeah. Okay. Next one we have is not, Everyone deserves a second chance. Three, two, one. Agree. Agree.

I'm thinking of like worst case scenario, the worst criminals we've ever known. Right? Like the ones on death row if they're definitely guilty. I'm thinking some of them probably do not deserve a second chance. Next one is agree to disagree. The pain of cosmetic surgery is worth it. Three, two, one. Agree.

I'm just going to be neutral because I've never had cosmetic surgery. But I'm going to disagree. Actually, I'm going to disagree. I'm not going to be neutral because it looks like it hurts. In the moment of healing, you'll never do it again. And then again, going back to like the newborn, when all the hard parts wear off, then you're like, oh, I could do this again. So I'm saying, agree.

Because I've gone back and forth 100 times over the years. Hair transplant hurts so bad. afterward, but hey, now I have hair. What I used to not have hair. Wow. Okay. Agree to disagree. Couples should not share a bank account.

Three, two, one. Disagree. Yeah, I could disagree. Yeah. There's nuance. There's nuance because I would say have joint and separate. Like, if you're good, because we have separate accounts too. But we also have, like a joint.

Got it. Yeah. I can piggyback. off that yeah like I think it's uh but it also depends on how like if you have a joint account how much that other person might spend because that might not be something that you're happy with so it's like why do we have 30 Amazon boxes agree agree to agree business agree to disagree the internet judges women more harshly than men agree three two one agree babe you're supposed to say it at the same time okay all right say it again

Yeah. Say it again. The internet judges women more harshly than men. Three, two, one. Agree. Agree-ish. See, see, what? It's agree-ish.

What would you say about that? What's your take? Like, explain your side. The bar is, is on the floor for men. And for women, somehow, we're never good enough. They keep moving the goalpost for women. Like, you're a homemaker, and you're not, you should be out getting a job. And we didn't fight for women's rights for you to be at home.

And then you get a job. And then you have to be a job. And then you have to, to keep up with the house. And then if you hire health, then you're not as good of a mom. And if you have a nanny, you're not as good as a mom. And if you have four baby dads, you're not as good as a mom. And men can do it. Men

can do everything. I like it. I plead the fifth on that. I plead the fifth. We disagree. You can be friends with your ex. Three, two, one. Disagree. Disagree. Disagree. You can't be friends with your ex. You can be friendly.

Friendly. I have kids with mine. Yeah. With almost. Out of six exes, I have kids with four of them. You can be cordial. I don't even like to term friendly. You can be cordial. You can be cordial.

Yeah. Like, hello. Here you go. Gotta go. Okay. But, like, if it's in passing, my, hello. Would you say hi to your ex in front of me? I wouldn't say hi at all.

Oh, okay. Whether I'm. Then that's all that matters. With you by myself? No, I just keep it pushing. Go about my business. Does it change when... Yes.

I do think it's important. Where possible, you should be nice to your kids' other parent. Okay. So if it's an ex like that, I do think you should be respectful. Are you careful with how you talk about your exes in front of your kids? Yeah, I try really hard not to. I mean, I'm not saying that they never hear anything, but I really try not to. Did not like say negative things about?

Yeah. Okay. Like if I'm going to say something negative, I can say it to him. My kids don't have to hear it and vice versa. So like when my ex-husband called me earlier today, it was... Can we schedule this call when Lincoln's not around? You know what I mean? So just...

She does a good job, just keeping her true feelings and emotions away from the kids. So if she has anything to say, more or less it comes toward... But also, like, I'll say hi to them in front of my kids, right? Like, if I'm at an event, we went to my son's moving up ceremony and I, like, waved to his dad's family just to say hi, you know? Nice. That's sweet. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, you guys, I feel like we put you through the ringer today. We've talked about so much. Thank you for being open and honest. So open. I feel like there's no question that I couldn't run by you where you'd be like, I'm so offended. Like you are just. Thank you for having me.

Thank you for having us. I'm a little special guest. Thank you guys. I do appreciate it. You know, I love that you're just like, I'm along for this ride. Yeah. I mean, it's like I was on her podcast prior. And for me, like now I feel I'm comfortable.

So it doesn't matter if it's just her and I or, you know. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Check out Kale Lowry on Instagram, on check out barely famous podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Any other shoutouts that we should mention. That's, join book club if you're not in Abbeys and, you know, don't want to take any of your book club members.

But if you're not in Abby's, join your book club. Yeah, that's all. Yeah. That's sweet. Well, thank you again for listening to another episode of Unplanned, and we'll see you next time.