The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby - Having a miscarriage at 17 weeks pregnant

Episode Date: October 8, 2025

It is with very heavy hearts that we share about the loss of our baby girl born far too soon. At a routine pregnancy appointment, our doctor could not find a heartbeat. Shortly after they sent us in for an ultrasound where the technician said words we will never forget, “I am so sorry I do not have good news.” That is when we got the gender reveal we never hoped for and also the news that our baby had a genetic condition that took her life around 17 weeks gestation. The news felt unimaginable. The grief is absolutely devastating. But we feel so much gratitude for the time that we did get to have with her. And we still have hope. Hope has continued to show up for us in so many ways. For now we will grieve and continue to think of ways to honor her life offline. Thoughts and prayers are more than welcome. Thank you everyone for celebrating this precious life with us for the past 17 weeks.❤️ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

you got this the first thing I wrote down in preparation to talk about this publicly the first thing I could think of was to write down was I just wrote the sentence I'm so proud of myself because in this time from the minute we found out the news the grief. I've leaned into every emotion that I've felt. I have not used any crutch to numb or avoid this, which I totally understand why people would in this situation, but it was really important to me to feel everything and walk through everything and even be proactive in this grieving journey as much as I could.

And I'm proud of myself for that. The first step in that was honestly just deleting social media because I think it's really easy to like scroll and like use social media as a Xanax and just like numb myself out. And there's several ways you can numb yourself. You can numb yourself with busyness or like, you know, trying to just keep going and keep muscling through things and just distracting yourself obviously you could use substances you can do so many things to numb out and I can say that I have not done that and it has been really healing I know that I have a long ways to go but um this time I've spent off social media

off of my regular schedule not working like all this stuff I've like I've done lots of alone time yeah I'm really proud of you I mean sorry to interrupt but like the day that we found out this horrible news you deleted all social media off your phone um you just took precautions right away to just protect your mental health protect yourself keep yourself from numbing out which i was like wow i mean the the discipline to do that when feeling numb is probably i mean feeling numb is so much more comfortable than feeling all of those very scary emotions. And for anybody listening to this who doesn't know what we're talking about, we had the gender reveal that we were not hoping for, but at a routine pregnancy checkup appointment,

we ended up not being able to hear a heartbeat. When we first realized there wasn't a heartbeat, and they brought in another doctor to check, I was so confident the entire time. They were going to find it even after the second doctor couldn't find the heartbeat and we then got brought into the ultrasound room. I still was so confident that they were going to find it. I just didn't think in a million years that that was something that would happen. Yeah. Ever since that day, like I was saying, I've spent a lot of time reading, journaling, talking to everyone that I can like in real life, just talking about her and everything that I'm feeling. I've talked to a lot of other moms that have lost their babies far too soon. And I've also, you know, gone to therapy

and just done a lot of things to intentionally work on healing and begin this healing journey in a healthy way. And I wanted to talk about this publicly, first and foremost, for other moms because I know the loneliness that you feel. I know how confusing it is to grieve something like this. I know what it can feel like to not have someone that understands how you're feeling. And I know that for many of you. Thanks. Many of you I don't know in person, but hopefully through this episode and how

no, here or not, whatever may come of this, that if you ever find yourself in this position, and I hope that you don't, that you feel a little less alone because of this conversation. But I also want to record this episode for myself because I really think that talking about my story and our baby girl's story from my own words will be really impactful for my healing journey.

and I just want to be, I want to tell my story and I want to tell our daughter's story with my own mouth. I want to do that myself and I just think that this will feel like a little exhale to record this episode and then later to post this episode it will feel like another exhale and it will feel like progress and yeah, I just hope I can do this like really, really genuinely and just really also in a way that honors her and honors our family and honors our marriage and everything. So let's start with the morning before we found out the news, I would think. Yeah. Something crazy about that day is that the night before I just felt this intense desire to wake up before our kids, which is really unusual. Yeah, what was up with that?

Yeah, it was really unusual because let me tell you, I don't even think in like basically all of 20-25, I have chosen to do that willingly. I'm just one of those moms that loves to get as much slave as possible. And I'll have my me time at the end of the day. Yeah. Once they go to bed, but like something was on my heart that night before I was like, get up before the kids and have me time. Yeah.

Like, gather yourself for the day before they wake up, which was really, I mean, that was, that was unusual. That was unusual. And I did, I sat my alarm. I actually even made a video of this morning. Like, I recorded like a, like a mini morning. routine vlog and I was talking about how I woke up before the kids and I don't know if I'll ever post that and then um we went to the OB um something else unusual is that the whole family

came yeah that's never happened really we um usually schedule OB appointments while the like right after the kids go down for a nap and then have a sitter come and watch the like watch while the kids are napping and it's just nice because we don't feel like we have to be away from them but also we can have time you know to do the baby appointments together and without distraction, I think that was a unique blessing of that day that we had them there actually. And I think that I could have thought of it both ways, like, oh, gosh, they had to be there for, like, a horrible dark moment, but also, like, they were such a tangible example of joy and hope in such a dark moment.

Mm-hmm. And in a way, like, everything that has transpired since, that moment of not hearing the heartbeat still stands out as one of the like rawest parts of everything because um a nurse walked in and she was younger and she was just getting you know do you have any questions how you've been feeling i'm like i feel good like you know no specific questions like everything was just very routine she put the little Doppler on my abdomen and she couldn't find a new thing and it was taking a little bit and i think like you said like that's always spooky that's like that's a worst fear situation but then like you said as she was young she was a nurse i was like get a doctor

and they'll be able to find the heartbeat surely the doctor was the first day i met her which was you know wild um she was still very reassuring she was like you know also i just want to say if any part of this episode is not serving you or it's making you if you're pregnant and it's making you feel fear please like discern for yourself whether or not this is something you should listen do because the last thing I want to do is to make anyone feel more fear obviously this is like a scary horrible thing that happened but like if it's not going to serve you please move on like that's that's not the purpose in this my this purpose is to like find the community of people that need to hear this or want I don't know hopefully can do some good but anyway I look back at that moment

as like one of the rawest moments because the doctor was also still very reassuring she's like I remember she said I promise you these things happen yeah and meaning like these things happen and the baby is okay. And so they were very great to rush us into the ultrasound room. And the ultrasound technician was moving really fast. Like she was taking those, you know, they're always kind of fast, but she was taking pictures really fast. And whenever we saw the baby, she quickly flipped the screen.

But I just remember, without going into too many details, she was really still in there. And they put the little thing on where they're looking for the red and blue for cardiac activity. And the only red and blue dots were outside of her little body, which would probably be like my heartbeat right and then I just remember these words I literally grabbed her arm and she said happy I don't have good news for you and that was when it feels like there was a Abby pre that moment and an Abby pose that moment because then at least the ultrasound room go back to our doctor our kids are wreaking havoc in the office they are

which was funny and a great relief they were like opening up the computer yeah touching on the keyboard messing with flashlights like yeah they like disassemble the flashlight yeah and then you're put in a position where you have to make decisions that you just and you you start the process of making decisions you never thought you'd have to make and you never had even considered, which is like how you're going to bring this baby into the world so soon without a heartbeat. And that was tough but also easy. You know, I, anyone in this situation, there is absolutely no judgment for like what you decide to do. But because I was 17 weeks along, the options are graphic. Yeah. I mean, essentially,

the options that we were given that Abby was given was you can go to what really is an abortion clinic to have them remove the dead baby. And that just like that I never like gave you my opinion on that because it was like totally your decision to make. But what Abby ended up deciding to do was to go to a hospital and, um, deliver the baby. Yeah. That was one of the easier decisions for me personally just because it felt like delivering her would be like one of the last acts as her mom that I could take part in. While that was hard, it was really not something I had to think super hard about.

So left the doctor's office and then we had to wait a while. until there was availability in the hospital. And I will never forget walking into the hospital. I was just looking at my feet. And I was just thinking one more step, one more step, one more step. Because that's all I could do is like break up into the next right step, the next right step. And ever since then, I've been following that same path,

just looking down and focusing, what's the next right step, what's the next right step? because entering those doors, knowing what was going to happen just felt like such a big mountain decline. But I knew that I could take one step at a time and go and do this thing. You're doing great, babe. Thanks. Delivering a baby that's no longer living is just something that a woman should never have to do.

I mean, to, you know, you think about the pain. and how hard it is, like, just regular birth already is so tough on a woman's body, but then to add on the reality that you're going through all of that to not even get your child. I just remember thinking, like, this is all so cruel. Mm-hmm. Because, like, the delivery process looks very similar to a live birth delivery process. delivery process. But there are some striking differences that were, that just felt very dark to me. Yeah. Like, there's no fetal monitoring because they're not looking for the baby's heartbeat

anymore. They will basically give you any medication you want. Including fentanyl. Yeah, they'll give you literally any, that was an option, was any kind of medication because they're not worried about that affecting anything for the baby. And then, um, There was also the entire time I was an incubator just staring across from me in the room. And laboring, knowing that I wasn't going to get to put my baby in there. That was really tough. That was really dark. Talk to me about, you know,

After we left that appointment, I think we are just both in complete shock. You know, we decided to start telling our close family friends about the horrible news we just received. And, you know, immediately, I think like one of the first people we told were your parents. Yeah. And it was so sad telling you. parents but also at the same time it was so sweet seeing them just hug you and cry with us and they were just like the sweetest longest hugs in that moment um i don't want to speak uh for your parents but they've been through something similar and immediately it's like wow you know

that what we're going through right now is is so so awful but i am so glad in a weird way that your mother is like the is someone that you can really talk to about this because she knows exactly what it's like yep yeah she knows a lot of what it was like and there's been a lot of people that have reached out to me that have similar stories all kind of different because every story is so different and um the main thing i've learned in this is about not the main thing I've learned. One big thing I've learned in this is not to compare pain

because pain is pain and everyone's going through it differently and it doesn't invalidate it or we can't like say that oh this is worse or this is better like everyone's pain is pain but yeah having community and my mom has been crucial

like it's been so important and many other women as well. I think the a crazy thing from that day too is you know not only did we find out so quickly um just completely we were taken by surprise yeah and then that night we were scheduled to go to the hospital for 8 p.m you know it was just like right away literally hours later we were in the hospital so that you can deliver um but at first like we you know we we had life

going on we had things scheduled that day we had a podcast we were supposed to record that day and at first you didn't say anything about canceling it and I was like, does Abby want to do this podcast? Is that going to take her mind off of things? And I remember I was like, you were on the phone with our sister-in-law, Abigail, talking about the horrible news and you were crying and sharing that with her. And I was on my computer, like, just brushing up on the research we had done for this guest. And I remember walking up to you and I was like, Abby, we need to cancel the podcast. Like, you know, I think you owe it to yourself. If there's ever something as serious as you know a death a miscarriage something in your life that happens like that people understand if you

need to cancel on them um and so we ended up telling the podcast cast hey i'm so sorry but we're gonna have to reschedule because we just found out um about a miscarriage yeah i mean i think that was partially shock yeah and just like continue to go through the motions and then partially when your needs are so great it's almost easier to think about other people's needs and i was like oh if they had plans to do this and like got a sitter and yeah well you even went to Target to go shopping for gifts for um our our new niece you know Abigail's baby that that she had just had you know that was so selfless of you but was that like was going shopping for her present just something that was taking your mind off things or were you not were you probably thinking about our baby

the entire time you were at Target I don't know I think I was just going through the motions right there like I had already planned to do that and said I was going to do that and I don't know yeah I was shocked too who was the first person that you called after we told your parents I think I called Val yeah I called a lot of people and my girls were so awesome which we can go into more of that later but yeah those are phone calls you never expect to make or hope to make but thank God I had people to call. Like, seriously, like, people I could cry with, people I could, you know, pray with or do whatever.

Like, it was just so, I'm so glad that I had people to call because some people don't, and I don't take that lightly. But back to the hospital experience, I think we'll probably have some privacy and, like, the details of it all because there's really no purpose in sharing that. but a couple things I will share is that something that was really meaningful was that when she came the doctor and the nurse were both crying with us and that stands out to me a lot that was really meaningful because it felt like they were recognizing this loss which also was recognizing her life so that was really meaningful I mean they were absolutely

angels, everyone that helped us in the hospital those couple days. They were so, so empathetic, so clear, and so comforting, and so validating in everything. Like, they, they were incredible. Everyone that walked to the room kept saying, I hate that we're meeting in these, under these circumstances. I remember the nurse, the first thing that the nurse said to us when she brought us back from the waiting room was, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry that we're meeting under these circumstances. And I agree with you for the loss of your baby. At that time, we had known

that it was a baby girl. We found that out with the initial ultrasound at the, at the OBB. We came back from the ultrasound into the doctor's office when we're making plans about delivery and everything she was like and the ultrasound tech think she found gender do you want to know yeah yeah like yes and that's when we found out that we have a little girl yeah but yes every nurse every doctor every person full abominent you know whatever was coming in was just so so gracious I said, like, so many times before this routine appointment that it would be so sweet to have a little Abby running around. It'd be so sweet to have a, you know, your own little version of you. And every time we'd ask our boys if they wanted a brother or sister, they always said sister.

They knew. They knew that it was a sister. They always, Griffin always said sister. And just. Yeah. Before we went to the hospital, we did say that, like, we were going to. to the hospital, and the past two times we've gone to the hospital recently has been to meet our new baby nieces, the boys' cousins, and so then Griffin's like, you're going to meet the baby? And I was like, yes, I'm going to meet the baby. And then he said, I said, but we're not

going to get to take this baby home. And he said, but I want to take this baby home. I said, I do too, buddy. I do too. And this whole time. time that's still one of the toughest things to grieve is that our boys won't get to meet their baby sister it's still one of the toughest things and actually I can say it is for me as a mom it felt like the most unnatural thing in the world to leave the hospital without my baby that day. That just felt like the most unnatural thing was to leave my baby at the hospital that day. Moms aren't supposed to leave without their babies. That was the hardest thing. I remember the nurse told you to pick up the car and like she would walk us out. And I was like,

you can't go without me like I don't think I can walk out of here without you and so we walked out together and then you pulled the car up and I was standing with that nurse which also that nurse was amazing during this whole our stay we had talked about this coffee shop that she really liked she's like oh you've never been I was like I haven't been there yet but I hear great things and then right before she left she gave me the sweetest most thoughtful handwritten card and a gift card to that coffee shop. And this morning, I used that gift card to get my coffee and another mom who lost a baby girl at 18 weeks. And we had coffee together. And I was like, I hope that I want that nurse to know that's how we use this gift card. And I'm just so thankful to her. She really was an angel

to us. And like one of the darkest times there was, she was like a glimmer of light. Everyone there was. You know, every hospital is different. So what our experience was at this hospital is going to be completely different than what somebody else might have at their hospital. But something that I really loved is there was a nurse who was fully dedicated to doing footprints and molds of stillbirths and miscarriages to help grieving couples like remember their babies and remember that life. And this woman was just the sweetest person, and we quickly found out that she had also been through something similar. She had a stillbirth at 40 weeks, and just seeing how happy she was and how kind she was, like knowing that she didn't know if we were going to lash out. She didn't know what stage of grief we were in. She was just there to fully be with us and fully like walk us through this very scary time.

And so what she ended up doing is she did a mold of our daughter's foot. And that was a gift that she ended up giving to us that we could bring home with us from the hospital. And I just thought that was so kind and so sweet that this lady, I'm pretty sure she was a volunteer. Like that was just her thing. She was there to be with grieving parents to help them commemorate their kids. It's really special to have something tangible to take home with you when you don't get to take home your baby. You're taking home a box instead of a baby. It was nice to have that.

She also gave us a book to share with our kids, like a little picture book. She actually read it to us. Yeah. It's called The Yellow Balloon. I think it was actually like a local author who read it. And the local author was another mom who lost her baby. Yeah. so that was a very thoughtful thing that the hospital offered something that i was not prepared for

was immediately we were hit with having to sign all this paperwork and the and the hospital staff is so kind about it but you know there's questions on you know what what we want to do with remains there was questions on um you know if we wanted to have a funeral questions on um the name of our daughter questions about like so many things like Yeah, did we want to do an autopsy? How in depth did we want the autopsy to be? Did we want it to be just a very simple, quick one? Or did we want them to like really go into depth to figure out what went wrong, what happened? And something that I really appreciated was that our doctor kept saying over and over again to you, baby, that it was not your fault. And she kept saying that this was just a genetic thing, that these things happened. And she kept you and me that there was nothing that we did. And I remember even like asking her questions about, okay, did I like, I do this sometimes. Like, could this have affected something? Or like, you know, did I take this pill that might have some? And she was like, no, no, no. She was like,

none of that has anything to do with this. Like, this is just, this is just something that happens. So Abby delivered our baby. And after that, we ended up finding out that the placent. was stuck. It wasn't coming out. Abby was so far along that the placenta needed to come out. This wasn't something that was just going to come out naturally on its own. And for anyone that's given birth to a baby, you would know. It can't come out naturally on its own. Oh, okay. Well, it can, but in this case, it just wasn't. It's common to have retained placenta. Yeah. I mean, it can even happen with live births, but it is, I think, more common with miscarriage and stillbirth. The placenta being stuck wasn't something that I was expecting at all.

Something that stands out to me about that experience and a couple other things is how we had to basically teach my body that the baby didn't have a heartbeat and that we didn't have a live baby to take care of afterwards with the placenta wanting to stay in so bad and with needing to take a prescription. So my milk would not continue to come in. You know, one of our friends also went to the grocery store for us and got some cabbage leaves

so that you could put them in your broad to help stall milk. Yeah. And even with having to be induced for this, like a missed miscarriage is, I think, the word for it. But meaning, like, we had to basically coax my body to go into labor. Just because my body didn't want to. I mean, my body didn't know that this baby didn't have a heartbeat. And so, like, every bit of that, like, felt, like, unnatural. So what ended up happening is the doctor decided, okay, this placenta isn't coming out.

We need to do a DNC. They went ahead and gave Abby a spinal block. Some of it had come, but there was, like, retained placenta. Yeah, yeah, there was retained placenta. And since I didn't have an epidural, then we had to do a spinal. Exactly. And so. And because I had eaten, I couldn't do anesthesia.

so yeah that that was something that I was hoping you'd be able to do was anesthesia because being awake for a surgery quite honestly just sucks like it's not it's not ideal so I was I asked the doctor is like is there a way that you guys could wait a little bit until you know the food that she ate six hours ago passes to her body and they're like well for safety reasons we think we need to do it now so they went ahead and did the spinal block and so you were awake but you weren't able to feel anything but that must have been you don't feel pain. I mean, that must have been pretty freaky being awake for that entire thing.

I think this is where I entered the numb stage of things. It wasn't like, you're just kind of going through the motions at that point, you know? Doing the DNC, didn't you tell me that your vision was like going in and out? You were asleep for part of it. I kept like falling asleep and waking up and, which is crazy that I could fall asleep under those circumstances. I mean, the room is so bright. There's so many people.

It's really loud. I could also feel things. Were you scared? I don't I don't think I was scared no I feel like I was just numb but like at one point you did tell me that when they

gave you pain medicine it made it made like the the mental pain that you were feeling the emotional pain go away was the emotional pain still there when you were getting the DNC yeah my memory's kind of foggy of this area like I was just really sad to leave you

but I don't remember I just remember thinking I do not want to do this I do not want to do this. I do not want to do this. I don't think my body can take anymore. But here we are. We did it. You did it.

And you're essentially just like strapped out into a table like they do for a C-section, but they unfortunately wouldn't let me in the room because I guess there's just certain rules about that. You know, DNC is completely different than a C-section. So I guess dad can't be in there for a DNC, at least at our hospital. Mm-hmm. But when you came out of that procedure, I was so happy that the physical part was done.

You know, you still had to get medicine through your IV. You had a catheter. So, you know, that was something that, you know, eventually had to be taken out. But, you know, you were, you're so tough. Like, you took all of that like a champ. And I'm just so proud of you. Coming home from the hospital, we had basically an army of love and support coming from our friends, family, neighbors, people from every corners of our lives, from people we've had on this podcast

to, you know, my gym family, like our neighbors that we used to live next to, our old neighbors from Hawaii, like everyone from every corner of our life just had an outpouring of love and support and compassion. Well, our sister-in-law, Addie, I remember set up a meal train for us and so we have not cooked since yeah we haven't made dinner since this uh the day after we got to the hospital was when we had our first meal delivered to us literally at the hospital yeah so that we didn't have to eat the hospital food that was our abby's friend val that made chicken pop pie and uh pumpkin cookies and then abby's dad came that night and brought blizzards from DQ and marshmallow malt.

Yeah, people actually, like, our friends, it takes a friend that knows you very, very personally, that can come to your house when you're going through a situation like this. They literally picked up our house. They had goodie baskets waiting for me in the kitchen on our bed. They prepared a postpartum care cart for me in the bathroom with pads and all kinds of. just like postpartum care products that you would need and then I think the thing that stands out to me the most

is that my friends that came then they literally took my prenatals my prenatal vitamins off my bathroom counter and put them out of sight and it means so much to have friends that are so enmeshed in the fabric of your life that they can go before me and make the road forward a little bit more comfortable.

And that, I mean, that means so much to me, everything that they did and continue to do. Like, we still haven't cooked. We don't have plans to cook dinner for, I don't even know, like it just, and it's like I like I like cooking, but that has just taken a big part of my mental load away so that I can just sit. And think about healing, think about grief, thinking about memorializing our daughter and what is the next right steps from here on out. And so just people giving me that space, holding that space for me has been, oh gosh, it's like, it's hard to feel deserving of it.

But I am just so grateful for all of that. Yeah, I mean, all of our friends across the board were offering to watch the boys. And that was like, you know, that, that fear of like, where, where do we, what do we do with our kids? Like, you can't, you can't bring two toddlers with you into, you know, the delivery of all this, right? So, so having friends to watch our kids was amazing. Having family to watch our kids was amazing. Something that I thought was people loving on the people that we love the most, our two boys, was the most meaningful thing that anyone can do. people also were like dropping off toys for our kids to play with people taking care of the people

I love the most like made me feel the most loved I quickly found a lot of comfort and progress in my healing when talking with other moms who have lost their babies and like I said I kind of had to seek them out yeah because having a late term miscarriage there's a lot of similarities obviously in early miscarriage and even in stillbirth but in this middle zone it felt a little lonely because I just didn't know who to relate to the most and there's something to be gained from every woman's story no matter what stage they lost their baby did you find yourself like stuck in this comparison game almost of like well man this this woman who was there for me in the hospital lost her baby at 40 weeks right right right right and then you're thinking

well then other people go through miscarriage too and it's awful but then you know maybe they found out at eight weeks and like i literally had to deliver my baby at the hospital it wasn't it wasn't a very peaceful thing so i mean how do you handle that comparison it's hard not to do that but also it doesn't serve anybody you know pain is pain and um there's just so much to begin when we find what we have in common and talk about that and talking to other moms about I mean, a lot of my questions for them have been regarding talking about the loss with their children, if they had children already, memorializing their child and how they continue to remember and honor the life that they lost. And also just like how they grieved within their marriage, like any tips for letting this bring the two of you together. things like that. And so I've had so much awesome, vulnerable conversations with lovely women

that I maybe I'll meet with them many other times. Or maybe that will just be like just a little flicker in my life of like connection that I needed in a really tough time. I kind of love how oblivious her kids are. Yeah. Like I kind of love how in the midst of all the chaos like in at the OB they were just going like going nuts just going crazy and I'm like trying to corral them while we just got devastating news and I kind of love how when we came home from the hospital they were just so stoked to see us like they the joy on their faces oh my gosh I mean it was it was like we were celebrities they were just they were just so stoked to see mom and dad and it that made me feel really loved and that just brought me so much joy and peace they were

really excited to see you guys home they can feel that mommy's really sad they can and that makes me sad but I also think it's important um I've heard it once said that is like a gift to your children if you cry in front of them yeah obviously in a healthy way and they can see because they feel sadness and they want to cry but if they cry and they've never seen anyone else in their life cry it feels like they're going crazy right um so obviously there's healthy healthy healthy ways to do this and not healthy ways to do this but um they've known that mommy's sad and that i'll feel happy again one day soon it was really sweet how our oldest just laid on top of me just gave you the biggest hug and just wanted to hold you and cuddle you yeah you know the day we got home

to the hospital did too he's in his spider-man costume i'm so glad i had a superhero to help me because he had his like hand on my knee and those boys don't like to stay still but they surely stayed still and laid with me when I couldn't get off the couch those first two days and I guess it was really just the first day that I couldn't get off the couch the next day I started to get myself moving a little bit more um but yeah they've been truly awesome even our youngest who just turned to so mature in ways that still surprised me he said in the car to me this recently he said mommy you sad because you could hear me sniffling and I said yeah I'm sad and he said you need to take a break because that's what we say like do you need to take a break when they feel like sad or angry yeah

and I was like yeah I think I need to take a little break yeah he's old enough to know that you're grieving but he doesn't really know why and he doesn't he I don't think he put the connection together about the the baby you know like we haven't been ever since you told Griffin that the baby wasn't going to be coming home with us from the hospital. He hasn't really asked questions about that or follow it up to about it. And we're navigating how to talk about her with the kids and how we will continue to like make her just a part of conversation in our household because I don't want that to be the case, but I have been wanting to just like push pause because I don't want to dump my

grief and like talk to them in a way that I don't want to use them as a part of my healing journey, right like they're an amazing part of it but like i don't want my discussion with them to be for me like i want to make sure that i'm doing it having that conversation or having those conversations in their best interest um so yeah that's something i've been talking about with other moms for and i think that yeah we're going to continue to navigate that and we've thought of a lot of ways to memorialize her but i mean even as parents they're just uh you can't prepare for everything so i googled a couple days ago how do you talk to your child especially a toddler about death because that's a very scary thing to bring up.

I mean, it's scary for me, and I'm an adult. Like, nobody wants to die. There's really just age-appropriate ways that you can speak about something as dark as death, even with a three-year-old. And, you know, the way... It has to be dark, yeah. Yeah, but, like, the way,

I think the simplest explanation is just that our daughter's body stopped working. And I think, like, when we end up having that conversation with our children, I think saying that her body stopped working is just like the simplest explanation. And it doesn't have to be this like super spooky thing. You know, you can use age appropriate terms to explain these deeper topics. Something that has surprised me is when I'm talking with other people that haven't experienced

miscarriage or stillbirth personally is that engaging in small talk, kind of like what Shea said in our podcast, I relate to that in this moment in a certain capacity because that is draining for me, which I'm kind of mis-social. Like, I love hanging out with people. I love chatting. Yeah. So what's surprising is that, like, talking about her and talking about this loss and talking about my grief is not draining to me.

Like, that's all I'm thinking about. So talking about it is natural and easy and it flows, but talking about my day and lighthearted things that's what is hard um that that's something that's kind of stood out to me in this time i've definitely noticed that like yeah especially you know there's recently we've been starting to have people over at our house and just just even being around a couple people can can be draining yeah my social battery is low and so you know something something that we've done is started taking walks together and just having having that space where like we can talk about it and it's okay to talk about it and you know we're already thinking about it so it's like why not already why not

just have the conversation and not be alone in those thoughts yeah some of the most devastating parts in these past several days are like when I feel like little movements in my tummy whether it's like digestion gas whatever maybe sometimes my instinct is to be like maybe that's a kick because we were like right at that stage where we were going to start feeling baby baby's movements and then that like flicker of a thought is very devastating to come off of and remember like no it's not a baby she's not in there anymore that is like a hard that's a that's a devastating moment and all this that's like hard to come off of um saturdays are also really devastating because that's the day of the week where i would be another week further along my pregnancy

so that first saturday i was like supposed to be 18 weeks pregnant but this just stopped and got ripped from me that's hard the week after that i was 19 and something that's hard is like I'm anticipating future devastating moments like the date that we were supposed to have our anatomy scan, the date that we were supposed to celebrate our gender reveal. Even Christmas feels devastating because I just had picture Christmas this year with our two boys in a big bump and just like excited for the baby that we were going to welcome shortly after Christmas. Like all of those things I'm anticipating. I'm anticipating the time around her due date to be.

particularly difficult and I was talking to a mom she's like the anticipation is almost worse than like when these dates actually come around but those have been like the particularly devastating moments something that I wasn't expecting for you to say was around us going to Disneyland you know we have a trip to Disneyland coming up with our with our friends and now you technically can ride ride and you were telling me that's not something that I'm excited about. You know, that's not like the ability to ride the ride now is really more of a reminder of the reality of the miscarriage.

Yeah, I haven't wanted to do anything that I can't do when I'm pregnant. So like having a drink, I don't want to do that. My caffeine limits, I want to abide by those because I just, it's just a reminder. that I'm no longer pregnant if I can like break those you know pregnancy rules I don't want to do that and I don't want to ride roller coasters um I mean even going to Disneyland was like something I'm like gosh I don't even really want to do that because it just feels like such a juxtaposition of like the happiest place on earth and then I feel like the saddest girl in the world so

just trying to like grapp with all of that one of your one of your favorite things that you do pretty much daily is take a bath it's something that you do to wind down it's therapeutic for you even when we are dating in high school i remember you would take baths all the time even when you needed to go to sleep but you were just stressed out and i was like babe go to sleep you're you're it's one o'clock the morning you have school in the morning and you would take a bath just because it's like it's your thing you're a bath person but obviously right now after delivering that's not allowed you know you're we've been told to wait six weeks but you know there's a chance it might be sooner that you can take a bath earlier than

that I don't know we'll just have to hear what the doctor says yeah um some parts that feel overwhelming is like when I some have new revelations of all that I have to grieve um like I said earlier One of the hardest parts is I have to grieve the fact that my boys don't get to meet their baby sister, but also, she was a niece, she was a cousin, she was a granddaughter, she's all those things, so I feel like I'm grieving every side of that, even not just like our daughter, but grieving all that she was and all that we're not going to get to experience because her life was taken. so soon that is like sometimes when the grief feels the most overwhelming when I realize the new things there are to grieve something that I anticipated even the day that we found out I anticipated feeling bitterness or even resentment about the fact that we have two new baby nieces in our family literally born weeks ago both of them and I anticipated gosh that's going to be hard but it honestly has surprised me how it's almost

been the opposite like seeing them and getting to hold them is hopeful it's joyful it's something to celebrate and that's been nice in the midst of all this heaviness yes it is a reminder of what we don't to have come February, but it is nice to see life and new life amidst loss and death. So, I don't know, for those of you wondering, like, I am so grateful to be an aunt to two baby girls now, especially in this season. Like, it's not, that doesn't make it extra hard for me. I can see where it would for other people, and they're allowed to feel that. But I don't feel that way about my nieces literally at all.

I love them so much. I love my sister-in-laws so much. And it hasn't affected any of that, which I'm grateful for. And I'm actually being active in like trying to fight off any type of bitterness or isn't I could feel about that. Something that I have noticed like a little bit of bitterness and myself in is like more related to pregnancy because that was the stage that I was supposed to be in. Right. so I was so happy that this pregnancy I had so many friends that were also going through pregnancy at the same time and obviously obviously obviously I would never ever ever want any of my friends

to ever experience this but it's hard not to remember where my pregnancy was supposed to fall in the progression of all my friends' pregnancies because I knew I was like six weeks behind this person, six weeks ahead of this person, one week ahead of this person, like two weeks behind this person. And like if you think of it like a timeline, theirs is going to continue and mine just got, you know, there's a harsh end to mine. And that's a little bit harder. everyone's been so thoughtful for me and no one has ever said anything that has like hurt my feelings and like I'm so happy for them but that is a more stark reminder of my loss and that's just something that I've had to be open about with other moms that have experienced loss and they're like yeah that's

that's a thing that we all share and that's like an ugly part of it but you can feel both things you can feel joy for them and you can also feel the pain of that that of that reminder of you know it's all reminder that my womb is empty right now and that's hard um i remember at the hospital when you when you told me in tears i'm not pregnant anymore and that was really sad yeah yeah and even the reminders yeah go ahead and and just like it was so sweet that you know we came home to all these female hygiene products your friends had gotten like an ikea cart and filled it with pads and with every little thing that a postpartum mom needs because you are going through that all again you're postpartum right now it's so unfair that the post like not only does postpartum come

with a lot of um new emotions and struggles but it's it's it's just unfair to you that you have to handle that um you know without your baby uh and so that was just something that like i i didn't really think through that until we got home from the hospital and i was like oh Oh, crap. Like, Abby is not only that we just lose our baby, but she's also postpartum right now, and she's bleeding out of her, like, out of that area because everything is, this is all happening again.

Something I've kind of made peace with in the past several days is that I'm never going to stop grieving her. And that's heavy. I will carry her with me everywhere. Someone told me that you have your baby's DNA in you forever. So I have her DNA in you forever. And then also, um,

so yeah, I've been thinking a lot about how we will memorial. So I've been thinking a lot about how I will memorialize her life. life and through therapy and like just deep reflection I like decided that I wanted to add her to my necklace that I have I have like a permanent jewelry necklace from truly blessed jewels in Scottsdale, Arizona. I think they're like they're amazing. I love them for years but I have a permanent necklace I've worn with them for like a couple years that have both my son's names on them And then I decided to add our daughter's name to this necklace.

It's beautiful. That was really important to me because now I always carry her DNA with me, but I also carry her close to my heart. And now I am able to like touch and feel this when I'm missing her a lot. And just having something to touch and having something to wear is really important to me. And also just like the fact that she is right in line with my other two children helps, in my mind, like validate her life and that she's one of my children. And I also think it makes for easier conversation with our kids about like, okay, wait, I see Griffin, I see Augie, and like we can talk about her easier with this. And it's like, it's a visual reminder for us. It's a physical reminder for us.

and it's close to my heart. And that has been awesome. And it's something I recommend for any of you. Moms that find yourself in this position, like that lady said at the hospital, a part of this dumb club. It's a really awesome, like, validating experience. And I will say,

I went back and forth so much about going into the shop that day because, I mean, I've been a mess, like, physically. I mean, that took a lot of courage. to walk into that jewelry store and ask, you know, to get our daughter's name added to your necklace. I was actually about to ask you that. Like, what is it that the shop owner said to you when you walked in the door? Yeah, like I was, I thought about not going a lot because I looked a mess. It was obvious that I had been crying.

I knew that I was going to cry when I asked about, like, what I wanted to have done. but I like still went and she just gave me they're an awesome company yeah she just gave me the longest hug and she like said to me like this took a lot of courage for you to come in here and they were so compassionate and loving and validating and just really excited to be a part of memorializing our daughter like this and it just it really meant a lot but yeah our doctor or nurses, our community, they've all been, like, stewards of hope to us, I would say. But then also, there have been, like, miraculous symbols of hope for us. So when we were in the hospital, we didn't know this at the time, but there was a rainbow.

When we were in the hospital, one of our friends was driving and saw a rainbow that ended literally in our neighborhood, like right by our house. For context, there are not a lot of rainbows in the desert because there's not a lot of rain. obviously in the desert. So the fact that there was a rainbow on this specific day, right by our house, was pretty miraculous. Oh, yeah. But we didn't find out about this until later because when we were talking with them,

we've been talking about all these rainbows that we'd seen because the day that we came home from the hospital, Matt went on a quick jog to clear his mind. And as he's running, he sends me this picture of this beautiful rainbow, which once again is so rare to find in the desert. And that was just like such a beautiful symbol of hope that we latched on to. That never happens here. Then later that evening as a family, we went on a drive. Yep.

And we saw a double rainbow. No, okay. It wasn't technically a double because I think a double is like stacked on top of each other. But we saw two different rainbows in different locations. Yes. And then I think this one is probably the most miraculous of the mall. We saw another rainbow too on the way to my grandma's house the next day. But something that was.

really hard for me ever like right at the beginning of finding out the news of our loss and for the couple days after was that I was really terrified to fall asleep because when I would wake up for those like first five to seven seconds there I would forget like of what had happened and the weight of reality felt crushing after those five to seven seconds so I like just didn't I wanted to avoid that all together by not sleeping so I don't think I slept much at all in the hospital. and I didn't want to go to sleep when we got home either because I was just really scared about those first five to seven seconds after waking up. So that first day that we got home when I woke up in the morning, I kid you not, the first thing when I opened my eyes, I saw it was a rainbow, which is so weird because I'm in my bedroom. We have lived in this house for a year.

We have had our full-length mirror in the same spot for an entire year. I've never once noticed this. but the exact way the light was coming into our bedroom and reflecting off the corner of the mirror, there was literally a rainbow cast. First thing I opened my eyes in our bedroom, which was crazy. I rubbed my eyes, I got out of bed,

I laid back down, still was there. I tried to even take a picture of it, but it wasn't reflecting right in the lens of the camera, but it was crazy. And it has been there every single morning when I've opened my eyes. First thing I see a rainbow. So, I don't know.

That's just been like a really, it felt like a really I don't know miraculous symbol of hope that has continued to chase us both and so since then I've like had friends like if you see a rainbow or anything about a rainbow someone has saw like a bumper sticker that said rainbow and I'm like please just share it with me because this has just been I don't know a hopeful reminder in a dark time yeah it's kind of it's kind of like our daughter like I don't know saying that everything's going to be okay it's a sign that everything's going to be okay um it's it's been super encouraging and um even even random ones even random ones too like we were playing with our boys on their play set and the misters and the misters

were going and i'm like oh my gosh there's another freaking rainbow like just rainbows galore and so it's just it's been really encouraging and yeah and as a family when we were on that drive that day the way the rainbow was falling it was looking like it was landing on a very significant landmark to our family so It was just been, it's been so hopeful. That's the only word I have. It's just like, like you said, it's like our daughter. Saying hi. Yeah.

Saying hello. A major thing that this loss has taught me is that together we are so strong. because through this loss I've had to lean on you in ways that I've never had to lean on you in our relationship ever before and you have been such a rock for me and such a pillar of hope in such a dark and isolating time

and like having you to lean on is just meant the entire world to me and I think because of this like even though I was gutted and heartbroken I feel like it made us both stronger as individuals and together and that's been a positive thing that's come out of like what felt like something that would have no positive aspects so thanks i love you and just seeing you in physical pain seeing you an emotional pain uh has been has been horrible but you know i i think your bravery in going through the motions and not numbing out not you know scrolling until your your mind so numb that you don't even you know what to think anymore or turning, turning to a substance to numb the pain. I think it's been

really, really cool to see you fully embrace the emotions and sit with them and reflect on them, go on walks, talk to other women that have been through something similar. And I just think that speaks volumes about who you are as a person. And I think you're an amazing, an amazing woman, an amazing wife, and an amazing mom. Thanks. But you're not giving yourself. enough credit. Like you have, you have embraced every side of grief for me. I just remember in our bathroom afterwards, like the first day we got home from the hospital. In our second day, I can't remember one of those really raw days. You were like, you can be angry, you can be numb, you can be devastated, you can be confused, you can be absolutely heartbroken.

And I'm here for all of it, and that, like, really meant so much. And, like, I couldn't imagine going through this alone. I love you. And I feel like the reason I have been able to process this, the way I have is because of having you by my side, filling in the gaps that I have neglected in this period of time. letting me sleep as much as I have slept and just filling in a million different ways to keep our household afloat because our kids still have needs and our life still has things that have to attend to that I've been able to unplug and check out because I have you by my side and because

you have just welcomed the depth of grief that I feel so compassionately that has been a lot and I just remember you have asked me some of the best questions that anyone has asked me this time really I didn't even know what did I ask that was a good question something that you've asked me that has stood out is like what are you thinking because how are you feeling has been a hard question for me when people ask I know people are so well-intentioned it doesn't bother me but I'm kind of like I don't know bad like I don't really know how to tell people like how I'm feeling even close people but you saying what are you thinking has allowed me to get some really dark thoughts out of my head some really graphic thoughts out of my

head I don't know the first time you asked me you're like what are you thinking and I I told you like my impulse thought that I couldn't get out but I didn't feel like I had anyone else to share with I was like I'm thinking about the fact that she could hear me And you're like, that's sad. And it felt good that you recognize that as sad, but also I was like, I think that's sweet. She knew her mom's voice. She did. And that was meaningful.

Another time, you were like, what are you thinking? And I was thinking, like, I didn't have a feeling to assign to it. But in hindsight, it was probably regret. Because you said, what are you thinking? And I was like, I'm thinking that I wish. I would have sang to her when we held her, like we sang to both of our other kids. We sang, you are my sunshine. And I think regret is also something that I wasn't prepared to feel in the midst of grief,

but there it was. I didn't know how to answer the question, how are you feeling? But I knew how to answer the question, what are you thinking? But you were also a safe person to share any thought I had at that time with. And so that has been critical for me to be able to get to where I am, get to where I'm able to talk about this, get to where I'm able to cry freely and, like, just not feel ashamed for where I'm at any given time in this process. And so, like, it's just, like, you mean so much to be. I love you.

I mean, that's very sappy, but that's how I'm feeling. something else that has been a positive that has come out of this is that I've always looked at art boys as such gifts such sources of profound joy and hope and love but now I look at them as true miracles yeah I'm like you're here yeah and now I look at all life that way even more so, like, even just people I see out and about, I'm like, gosh, you're here. That's a miracle. I think it's been overwhelming the amount of love and the amount of kindness that has been shown to us the last couple of days just throughout this whole thing.

Initially, you know, once we told our friends and family, there was just a huge wave of love and support when we shared with our community on social media. it's just crazy how like complete strangers are just so nice and that's just made me realize that there is so much good in the world so much good in the world and sometimes I think it's easy to look at the world and think man there's so many bad things there's so much division there's all this and then you go through something like this and as horrible as it is I've just realized my goodness there is all these amazing good people who just want to do good. They just want to do the right thing and they actually care. It doesn't matter if they're

Democrat, Republican, Christian, Mormon, Muslim, who care, like so many good, loving, kind human beings and just seeing that has been really cool. Yeah, I would agree. I fully agree with that. Something else about this all is that, um, Our doctor did share with us that most babies with what she had don't make it to 10 weeks. But for ever reason, we were given the gift of 17 weeks with her. And I really truly am so thankful that I got what feels like bonus time with her, even though it was far shorter than what I ever would have wished for or hope for. I feel really grateful that I got to carry her for 17 weeks.

And that's something that I've just realized recently. Like at first it was like, gosh, could this have been easier if, you know, this kind of went as it typically goes? Even though it would have been hard, like would that have been easier? And it's like, no, being able to reframe that as like something. something to celebrate is that I got 17 weeks with her. I'm grateful for that. So moving forward, in light of the advice that that sweet mom gave me, like saying, I want to give you permission to feel joy in the midst of all of this

heaviness and sorrow and grief, we're going to continue to feel joy and experience joy Like Matt said, we have a trip to Disneyland plan that we're going to still do, and we're going to feel joy in the midst of sorrow, and we're going to fully embrace that. We're going to continue at whatever timeline it is to record silly, lighthearted videos, still grieving our baby girl so heavily, but we're still going to feel joy, and we're still going to continue our life.

life and move forward and carry her with us forward and everything we do so i don't know if you see like a silly video or a lighthearted video or like what's the point of this but know that we're still grieving and we're still full of sorrow but still welcoming and embracing joy for life post loss you know like i said it feels like there's been like a cornerstone in my life now or like a pre-abby or a post-abby or a bc and an 80 whatever you want to call it and like this abbey knows a depth of grief and a depth of sorrow that i didn't know before but i'm still going to actively welcome joy and light in this new season so yeah gosh you're so good you're such a good speaker i feel like i feel like you could do public speaking as your job yeah you're so your your words are just so well thought out

and you're so articulate and you're very intelligent and I could listen to you speak for days. The last thing I wanted to say, though, is that I know you've seen me be tearful and weepy and, I don't know, just like raw and brokenhearted in this episode, in this conversation. But I really hope that you know I really feel stronger than ever, even though I'm so broken-hearted, I have just lived my worst-case scenario, you know, in a way. I think every woman that has been pregnant can relate to anxiety during your pregnancy.

And in a way, my brain would just play out these scenarios of like, what if this happened, what if this happened? And I've always labeled this exact scenario as like one of the worst-case scenarios. And I always told myself, if that ever happens, I could never, I could never move on. I could never, I couldn't go through that. But here I am. I've gone through it.

I've entered the other side of my worst case scenario. And I did it. And I truly feel stronger than ever having done it. because I survived it, and I'm still alive, and we're entering the post-miscarriage era, and I just feel like having done something that I deemed my worst-case scenario, definitely wouldn't have chosen it. If there was any way to reverse it, I would love to find a way and not have lived in my worst-case scenario.

But I am more confident now because of it, because I've overcome something. just never thought I'd be able to overcome. And so, yeah, I'd ever wanted to join this club. You did it. But I did it. And I'm still doing it. And I'm still searching for the next right step. And so for anyone at any time, if you're watching this, the day that it gets posted or years later, or however you found yourself on this video, I just hope that you know if you find yourself in a similar situation, you're allowed to feel strong again, you're allowed to feel confident again, and they're allowed to feel joy again, and we can do it together because we're never made to do this alone,

and I'm just so grateful for all the women and people that have surrounded me with love and support in this time, and I hope in some capacity I can be that for some of y'all. Thank you.