The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby - Raising Boys in a "Man-Hating" World

Episode Date: March 18, 2026

Matt and Abby open up about what it feels like to raise boys in a moment where conversations around masculinity feel louder and more polarized than ever. They unpack the difference between healthy and unhealthy masculinity, how criticism aimed at grown men can be internalized by young boys, and the role social media plays in amplifying extremes. They also share their biggest hopes as parents — raising sons with strength, humility, emotional awareness, and a sense of purpose in a rapidly changing world. This episode is sponsored by Zoc Doc, Better Help, Kindred Bravely, Olipop, and Flamingo. Zoc Doc: Stop putting off those doctors appointments and go to https://Zocdoc.com/UNPLANNED to find and instantly book a doctor you love today. Better Help:Sign up and get 10% off at https://BetterHelp/unplannedpodcast Kindred Bravely: Get 20% off your first order at https://KindredBravely.com/UNPLANNED with promo code UNPLANNED. Exclusions apply. OLIPOP: Get a free can of OLIPOP when you buy any 2 cans in store—just visit https://drinkolipop.com/unplanned Flamingo: Our listeners get the Flamingo Starter Set for just $7 at https://www.shopflamingo.com/unplanned Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Thank you to Time for Learning for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. Schooling is one of the most important decisions you make for your children, and I'm really excited about the option time for learning. We are coming to that point where our kids are getting ready to enter pre-K, and there's all these decisions to make. And I love that we're in this day and age where there are so many options, but I'm also very overwhelmed by it. But I'm really excited about time for learning because they have everything you need to teach pre-K through 12th grade at home, but with all the core and elective classes offered in a traditional brick-and-mortar school. I love that option because you get the structure that you would like with a traditional school format, but with the personalized intimate setting of homeschooling.

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You can get started with a monthly subscription to see just how much your kids enjoy learning on their own terms. If a guy hurts you, let's not extend that to the entire gender. My two and my three-year-old are building their sense of self right now. Here, like, I hate men, men are the worst, and them be like, there's something wrong with me. I'd never want that to happen. There's all these men right now that feel like they're failing because they're not providing

financially for their family as much as their wife. And that is BS. There's so much more to providing for your family than financial. We want men. We want masculine men. But I think that in 2026, we need to be. to redefine healthy masculinity, especially as our roles of changing society. What's up dudes? And welcome back to unplanned.

Woo! Is that fun? Should we rebrand to unplanned with just like the one word unplanned? I've actually wanted to do that for a while and I've gotten nervous. I don't know why. But I think it'd be kind of fun just if this just said unplanned. Okay. I think we should do it. Do you guys approve it? Let us know in the comments. Speaking of the comments, everyone that's been leaving reviews, we really appreciate you.

us so much. That's like a free way you can support the show by just telling people why you like it on Spotify or Apple. And then especially another freeway is just subscribing. If you're listening on YouTube, the subscribe button really helps us out. We're actually trying to hit a million subscribers this year. And if we do, I think we need to do something special for our team because we're growing. We're trying to make better videos. What are we at right now? We're at 800 something thousand. Oh, yay. 830,000, I think. You can do it. So I don't know. I've seen another podcast where they like throw a party for their team or they take their team on a trip maybe we'll take our team on a trip if we hit if we hit that number we should make a goal too for always here because

i i don't know i think i just want to celebrate that and um i want to be around for a while because it's it's fun connecting with you guys it's fun interviewing the guests that we have on these shows i can't believe we get to sit down with the people that we get to sit down with but we got a very exciting conversation today abby what are we talking about today well um a couple years back gosh it's been two years at this point, I think. Right? No, it was three years ago. Three years ago, wow. The time is, time is an illusion at this point. Yeah. But we had posted a clip from this podcast where I was just, you know, running my mouth. We are literally living in a man-hating culture. And as a mother to a son, that makes my heart really sad. My son, watch me.

Oh, it's okay. It's okay. You got this. You got this. I would hope that my son could grow up, and there could be males and females uplifting him and rooting him on and not hating him for his gender or, you know, thinking a certain way about him because he's a man. Let's actually get into this conversation. What's the context? Let's get into it because here's my thing. I am so pro-women. I love women.

And, yeah, I'm the biggest girl's girl. Like, I'm just, I'm going to take a girl's side if we're totally honest. You really are actually. I will publicly take a girl's side, but then quietly put them aside and be like, okay. I feel like I've heard you say like, I just like women are just better than men. Yeah. I've just heard you. Yeah.

I probably have said that. Definitely said that. You know, there's a part of me that believes that. Are you sexist? Yes, you want, but that's okay. I mean, like, I fully support your belief that women are better than men. Let me get my thoughts out. I'm okay with you believing that.

I want to fully acknowledge that like women that have been hurt by men. Like, I, that that that, that angers me so, so, so much. That, that fully, those men should be held accountable that are abusive. that are dominating, that are just completely inconsiderate. Like, there's just so many things that's like that fully enrages me. Especially when it comes to assault, too. Like, some of these instances, you just look into what happens. If you watch documentaries on abuses of that, it's just, it's sick.

I can't even watch it half the time. That makes me so mad. And so I want to recognize that the people that are feeling, I think there's two categories of people that I view as man hating. And like I want to fully recognize that a big population is people that have been hurt by men, by boyfriends, by husbands, by men misusing their power. Yeah. And also their fathers. That breaks my heart.

The fact that the role of a father to a daughter, like that can start. Oh, it's disgusting. And so I want to recognize that like a lot of that can start from literally an infant with when you have a terrible view of your father. They were not a good role model to you. your dad represents so much to you. Like even as you grow up into an adulthood, you're like this, this is the person that is like kind of setting a standard.

Now, like we can change that standard as we get older, have therapy, have new experiences that are better. But like there's so much there. The other category of, I want to put in quotes, man, hate, if that's not appropriate,

someone tell me to say that, but I honestly feel like that's just kind of how I'm interpreting it personally, is people that are reacting to society now in this overcorrection. The people that are just like now a part of like it's okay now. Like I'm telling you, I cannot tell you how many times a day where it's like I hate men. Women say that all the time. I hate men. I hate men are the worst. We don't need men. What's an example of that? Like why women feel that way? Pull up Instagram right now. Just fill me in. Like what's one what's something that you see? You don't see it on your on social media?

I don't scroll social media. I play video games now instead like in my doom scroll is playing video games which is just as bad if not worse. I literally, my screen time. My screen. times like zero. It's been, it's been great. Take a drink every time Abby gets the ick, right, Matt. I know. No, it's funny. Like, we used to, I used to brag about, I was like, yeah, Abby thinks video games are a huge turnoff in just, just like the past six months. I've been like, I love gaming with my bros. Literally my brothers. But what I'm saying is that now, at least for me, what I see in other women, you can comment down below if you see the same thing too, or if you don't, then also, like, feel, this can be a discussion. I'm not offended by this. Also,

this is just how I'm interpreting the society that we're living in. And so, but the other is like, now it's like okay for people to say like literally, women to say I hate men. It's actually like totally okay. And men are supposed to just sit there and be like, yeah. You're right. If a man were to say, I hate women, we'd all be like. Yeah, you get burned at the steak.

No, but it would just. Gosh, now someone's going to clip that. Someone's going to clip that right there. It's just not. And I recognize like this is a tale's oldest time where something is wrong. And we finally recognize that as a society. And then it's pitchforks and fire. And then we're back at the other side of this.

Can I be a devil's advocate? Of course. I feel like, so the pendulum swung too far in one side. Now it's swinging you too far to the other side to like over correct. Totally. But I think that's warranted it. Like I think a pendulum needs to keep swinging until it slows down. It slows down.

Then eventually it stops. I'm speaking though as a mom who has a two and a three year old boy at the time that this pendulum is swinging on this side. Yeah. And so my little boys are hearing. I hate men. Men are the worst. We don't need men. We don't need blah, blah, blah.

And I'm, and here's the thing, Matt. This is reflected in data. So like, Scott Galloway does a lot of, I was actually, the first thing that actually put words to the things that I was like feeling and noticing in society was when Scott Galloway, I'm pretty sure that was who was on. Scott Galloway. Yeah. Was on Dyer and CEO.

This conversation was, I don't necessarily like, once again, I don't necessarily agree with every single thing on there or feel the same way about things. But like this finally put words and data to things that I was experiencing and feeling and noticing in society. Which we would love to have Scott on the pod. Go spam Scott to DMs if you want them on our podcast. If enough people, seriously guys, like that's what's crazy about your influence on who we interview.

Like if you guys really want us to interview someone, let us know. Like the comment, make the comment go to the top. And we will, we can get them on the pod. Like if enough of you especially reach out to them because you want to see them on here is going to happen because you got like you the people are so powerful. So thanks to everybody for watching and we listen to everything you said to us. So thank you. So let's go back like 50 years. So not during our lifetime, but like the very beginning of our parents, especially our grandmas, like their experience.

They did not have access to information like they do now. No. Not at all. They needed to get married for financial security. Which is so sad. Imagine getting married to a subpar man just because it was a means of survival. Here's the fact that women in the United States legally gained the ability to open bank accounts, apply for credit cards, and obtain loans without a male co-signer with the passage of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act in 1974. That was not that long ago.

Abby, that's goodness. That's about 50 years. And look what women have done in that amount of time. 50 years and women have 52 years to be exact. Holy crap. That's what I'm saying. It's something that I feel like immense pride for women for. Like look what we've done in 50 years since we've gotten, we've gotten the, it's like they

literally like finally allowed us in and it's like look at what we've done. Women can succeed, but we don't have to crush men beneath our feet to do so. That's good. Snaps. Like there's space for both of us. And I feel like that. Abundance mentality. That's what that is.

You have this abundance mindset. I'm sorry for interrupting. No, you're good. Keep talking. There's all these men. right now that feel like they're failing because they're not providing financially for their family as much as their wife. And that is BS. There's so much more to providing for your family than financial. You can do so, so much. And I think if you view it as like whatever it is as a man

that you're doing to give back to your wife and your kids, that that's all that matters. It doesn't matter if it's money. Because if your wife makes the money, cool. Are you, are you, are you, you loving your kids? Are you showing them a good example of what a man is for the future, for what you want future them to be? Okay, that's that's your number one goal right there. And if you're doing that, that's all the providence your kids need. Yes. And I feel like that is where like my heart in this issue truly lies. Not wanting to like crush our son's masculinity. Like I want to build that up. I want, I want them to be masculine. I want our boys be masculine. But I think that in that needs to be redefined because we've like we've talked about throughout this entire episode

this pendulum has been swinging so like when our parents and our grandparents it was like men you your job is to provide financially to put the roof over their head to be like a fierce protector maybe even this was misdefined in some ways as like dominance or like there's some of those harmful parts of it too where it was like oh like you know what you say you go everyone has to just bow down and listen and it's just like dangerous assertiveness. Whereas now we need to redefine healthy masculinity, especially as our roles have changed in society. Because now the women are more educated and, I'm talking in general,

more educated and making more money. Like there's a different role. You are more educated than me and you make more money than me. That warrants a redefinition of masculinity. Yeah. Because like now it's proven like men in their 20s are floundering. And actually a lot of Scott Galloway's like messaging is geared towards men in their 20s because what do they define them as like basically like unmarriable men?

Like they really just are kind of lost. Yeah. His big thing is he's saying that young men are facing a severe overlooked crisis with really high rates of addiction, loneliness, and failure to launch. And he actually cites that men are 12 times more likely to be incarcerated than women and four times more likely to die by suicide. Which is actually really, really sad when you think about it. Of course it is.

That's heartbreaking. Can you imagine one of our sons? being incarcerated or like taking their own life like can you can you imagine like that's that's a problem with with men it's really sad but I think really what men need more of um which I think there's stuff that women can do to support men but I think if we're going to talk about men for a second I think what men need more of is um is to go to therapy talk talk about their feelings not not ignore them not not like just disregard them I think it's so toxic this idea that like men can't cry I'm like starting to embrace more of my like emotions now that I'm older, but I feel like I don't I don't know what it was.

I don't know if it was society, my parents, my like community. I don't know what it is, but like as a man, I still feel like it's weak and not masculine to cry. But I think I'm learning, I think I'm learning that like it's okay to embrace those emotions. And I think really women want emotionally intelligent men. They don't want these men that just completely ignore all feeling. Now, I think women want a safe man. They want a man that provides comfort and maturity and, like, just confidence that everything's going to be okay.

But along with that, though, they need their men to be emotionally intelligent. Or most women, to generalize, most women want that. Well, yes, because the fact is, it's like, now that women don't need men to literally have a roof over their head to achieve any type of status in life or any type of thing. You know what I mean? Like you used to need to basically ride on the backs of men. Yeah, you literally don't need me. You could divorce me.

But here's the fact is that women are still choosing to marry because we want men. Like we want good men. We want masculine men. But we need to have this redefinition and we need to have this conversation. And I can recognize we're saying like this is a man hating world can come across as like not fully understanding the breadth of. of where this comes from. Yeah.

And so that's why it's important to have these conversations and understand the nuance related to it. But the fact is, Matt, is that college educated women still tend to get married. They just get married a little bit later in life. About 20 to 25% of college educated women marry men with less education. And I'm sure that's gonna continue to grow.

I think we're gonna see this gap more and more. That's you. That's our sister-in-law Addy. She has her master's. Your brother doesn't have a master's. I didn't graduate. You did. And like my mom, that's my parents, baby.

My mom is a civil engineer. Like, she's extremely intelligent. I guess they both graduated degrees, but my mom's degree was like twice as hard as my dad's 10 times more hard. Like, I don't know. Yeah, I think there's like, there's definitely a trend there for sure. Yeah. But women are still choosing to get married. Thank you to Zoc Talk for sponsoring this portion of today's episode.

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Find support and feel lighter in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com slash unplanned podcast. That's better-h-E-L-P-com slash unplanned podcast. Another top comment on the video that went viral is a Taylor Swift quote. It says if guys don't want me to write bad songs about them, they shouldn't do bad things. Which fair.

Yeah, that's good. Fair. Probably, yeah, don't be a bad dude. Here's my other issue I take with some of, I'm not saying with Taylor Swift. Like, there's not, if someone, if a guy hurts you, yeah, you can make you talking about it. But let's not extend that to the entire gender. Yeah, I actually like T Swift a lot. We have learned not to generalize across many different categories, like ability, race, age, all these things.

Yet gender is the one where now it's okay to generalize. but only with men. Yeah. That's where I'm coming from. Where it's like, okay, you have a terrible experience with somebody with a person and it's like, well, he's a dude,

it's because he's a man. And it's like, this isn't, it's not, that's not fair, that's not right. That's not even true. Yeah. And so that's where my concern is like with having a two and a three year old

as where this pendulum is swinging this day. Like my two and my three year old are building their sense of self right now. Their internal dialogue. Who they are, how they fit in this world. what their role is. And that's all that is forming right now

at this snapshot in time where the pendulum is over here. That's my concern. That's why I'm speaking out about it. You know what I mean? It's not because I'm like, I'm disregarding. I don't want to disregard women. I just don't think that we have to put down men

to bring up women. We are up. We are thriving. We are doing amazing. And so it's like, but it doesn't have to come at the cost of men, in my opinion. So how do you as a mom of two boys

direct them to be good men? how do you point them in the right direction? Because it's, it's kind of confusing if you tell your kid, don't be this, don't be this, don't be this. No, that doesn't work. So what do you point them towards? That's the thing actually with our parenting that I'm always trying to redirect. I catch myself doing it a lot where I'm like, stop, don't know,

don't, like all those things where it's like that's really confusing for them. Like don't do this. Well, then what am I supposed to do? And so they might continue to do that behavior because you're just like, stop, no, no. And then so now I'm always trying to redirect my discipline towards them to say like, do this, do this. We are this. And so that's more clear, I feel like.

And I've talked about this before, but we have like a family mantra, and I really feel like this has been very beneficial to us and all sorts of misbehaviors or behaviors that we want to redirect. And that is howards are. And then we've continued to add, we have howards are patient, howards are kind, and howards are generous. Those were like the first we started off with because it was just like a lot of the early misbehaviors you see in toddlers which are like first of all patients it's like mom no no no no no no no no

no and so it's like oh howards are patient try that again and then they'll say like excuse me and we really we really are very gentle with that because we know that they they need some gratification right away but um just patient became obvious kind became really obvious because i feel like hitting and just like general like yelling nastiness like that's impulsive that every human does. And so that kindness kind of covered a lot of those bases. And then also generous because sharing is like really hard for little kids. And so those really helped. We've since extended it to gentle because also we're raising boys. And I feel like, um, like we can't deny the fact that like raising little boys is different from raising little girls. Like they, they're, it doesn't, this doesn't

fit in one box always. But in a lot of. experiences with little boys, like they're, they're more prone to rowdiness, to being physical with their bodies, to wrestling. Wait, what's the, what's the song? He goes, The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, gentleness, time in a self-control against some, there's no wrong. Isn't that it? Never heard that in my life.

You've never heard that jingle. That's beautiful and wonderful. Let's use that. I went to private Christian school. Well, let's start instating that. So like I feel like, but I feel like. But I feel like those are like some timeless principles that you pull from. For sure.

That's definitely where I pull these from. Yeah. So we added gentleness. We need to be gentle. We added gentleness. Especially when it comes to girls. And I love that you do that. And I think that's great.

And I think that's also how we're raising good boys. Does that make me toxic that I go, we do not hit, but especially not girls? No, you said that one time. I was like, Matt, keep that. That's great. Because I think it's great that our boys are instilled with a sense of protectiveness. Yeah. Over females.

I think that's great. and that is a really great example of healthy masculinity. Like we are protective over them. This doesn't mean that we dominate them. We're cruel towards them. We flex our muscles over them. Or like we protect them. That is our role.

And I think that's beautiful. As a woman, I am very happy and pleased to feel protected by you. And like, and I think that this has just been twisted so much. And it's been misused and men have over. certain men in the past have messed this up. And I feel like,

been made to think that that's a bad thing. And I feel like another thing that can be like, quote, unquote, toxic in a more quote unquote traditional marriage is like men loving being served by their wife. But I think that, that like word of service can mean so many, so many things. And I think it only comes if you're being a respectable man.

I think, I think where, where this like deep distrust from men comes is women that would, like, would like serve their husband but their husband wasn't serving them back right and that is very toxic and very harmful and that service can look different and up until recently women could not speak up oh totally because we just like women couldn't have bank accounts in america until the 70s which was 50 years ago so many more so voting gosh my my my great grandpa was born in 23 and I think my great grandma leadership I think my great grandma was born in 24 and so I want to say goodness was she born

When do women get the right to vote and do it? Just use Google, Matt. It was 19. When do women get the right to vote? 1919. I think so. 1920. Okay.

Women gained the right to vote in the United States in 1920. But think about that. With the ratification of the 19th amendment to the United States Constitution, it states that the right to vote cannot be denied based on sex. And that was babe. That's literally 100 years ago. But think about that. That's the year they got the right to vote.

Think about how long it takes. to change laws and practices and women to eventually be in roles of leadership in our politics. Let me add what our other howards are, and that is howards are obedient. Because I also think that it's really important for boys and girls, but I think maybe even more so boys, to know that, like, you have to fall under something. Does that make sense? Yeah. Like, you have to be obedient to someone bigger than you, someone higher than you.

Yeah, a rule book. There's a rule book for you to follow. Yeah. There's rules for you to follow. Yeah. And I think honestly, these rules are pretty universal. Like I think if you ask people what it looks like to be a good person, if you look at belief systems across cultures, 99% of the stuff is the exact same. And that's why I was asking AI, babe, I was like, help me understand what's going on here because there's clearly like attention that exists right now in the world. And I asked

Chatsbytee, why is there attention between wanting to raise strong, confident men and the societal pressure that often labels traditional male traits as toxic. And it says it's because there's two different cultural reactions that are happening at the same time. Society is trying to correct past problems with masculinity. But in doing so, it sometimes creates confusion about what healthy masculinity looks like. But the reality is like these big reactions, this stem from reaction to genuine harmful. Like initially, this was because of genuine harmful behavior by men with aggression, with emotional suppression, dominance, intimidation. And then it just kind of equated some people

to thinking of manhood as control or violence and just these negative traits. I don't know. You can talk more about this. Those things are bad. But boys today still need to have leadership skills. Yes. Boys today still need to have confidence.

Boys today still need to, they needed this. then and they especially need it now emotional regulation. Yeah. And so that's where I feel like this conversation needs to shift towards. Like I keep saying, like, what does masculinity look like this year? It makes me so happy whenever our boys are struggling with anger when I hear them start to do their breathing exercises. Yeah.

It's so cute. That's really why I'm very specific about having them name how they feel. Yeah. And it's not because I'm like some fluffy parent. Like, I want you to, fairy godmother parents, you're not, you're not crunchy, you're not a hippie. Well, no, I'm all of that. You're very white mom from Illinois, from the Midwest. That's not true.

What's wrong with that? I think that's so sweet. No, but I think it's very important that they name their emotions. And so this is where that emotional regulation comes from. Okay. So when I hear them, like, we've been experiencing a lot in our household is when they're experiencing anger we're growling. Or obviously it can escalate to like lashing out.

Yeah. And so we always say our line all the time is like, you can be angry, but you can't be mean. Can we just talk about how we have a growling problem in our house? You have a growling problem in our house. When did the growling? When did you first notice the growling? It's honestly been fairly recent. Why?

Like was it two weeks ago that I just noticed a consistent theme of growling? And then we had a conversation between the two of us where it was like, is this something we correct? Yeah. And I feel like it's not something we necessarily correct. It's more of like we help them name it. and understand what they're experiencing. So now when they growl, I'm like, are you feeling angry?

Yeah. And I'm like, what's the problem? Rather than attacking our kid and being like, stop shud. Stop grow. We do not growl. Growlers don't grow. No, we're just like, hey, how are you feeling? What's going on?

Are you feeling angry? And maybe like, hey, we're going to do, we're going to breathe together. Okay, rainbow breath. Here we go. One, two, three, four. Like, you know, just counting slowly. Yeah, they do take deep breaths. And I love it when I go,

Wow, I feel better now. And they go, I feel better. And then they'll like. I feel better. And they do. They actually feel better. Take a breath. We will have them.

Sometimes we're like, do you just need to take, like, take a break? Do you want to go do something by yourself for a little bit? You know what's so funny. Abby is like these simple skills we're teaching our kids. Sometimes you're like, man, this is like, this works for adults, you know? Same principles apply. Breathing. Doing some breathing exercises when you're stressed.

Like maybe rather than, you know, if you're like a wine mom or a beer dad, like on on a Friday night where you're like I am so effing over with this crap's going on like you're like unwinding with you know a substance like it's like you know you could just do a breathing technique you can get the same result seriously seriously though um another example is like a lot having drinks a lot you know so I'm just never literally don't I'm not interested in it but um you told me that you were going to never drink alcohol and then I I'm so bad I got you to drink champagne with me on our on our honeymoon and then you've been hooked ever since now you're not true now you're reaching a alcoholic.

That's not true. It's not even funny. But, so also I think about, like, if we're leaving a place that our kids are having a lot of fun, it's not uncommon for them to, like, throw themselves on the ground, you know, big reactions. Big reactions. And so help instead of just getting on that behavior. They keep things interesting. I'm first, like, urging myself to, like, reminding myself to just be like, hey, are you

feeling disappointed? Yeah. Because it's like, man, I hate leaving a place that I'm having a lot of fun at. and just like trying to help them understand what they're experiencing emotionally in their bodies. I mean, sometimes I wonder my purpose in these conversations because I literally could just hand you the mic and you could do a TED talk. Like you're such a good speaker. I think it, because I don't know, even I'll like review. I'll do editorial review of our podcast and I'm like, I'm just speaking some stupid stuff and you're out here like just dropping line after line.

No, no, no, no. But what I'm saying is that it's really important for me that my boys understand. understand their thoughts because I do already notice a difference. This is just my experience, but I do already notice a difference in my two and three year old boys and then our friends that have two and three year old girls. Oh yeah. Isn't that crazy? Like just the nature of boys and girls acting completely differently. This is and and here's the thing. Why does it feel? It shouldn't feel scary for me to say this publicly. Yeah, wait, why is it? But it does feel that way. Fill me in on why it's scary. I'm, I'm not freaking. Well, I'm just saying it feels that way to recognize.

It feels scary to recognize, like there is a developmental difference between little boys and little girls. But why is there? Well, just because the subject of gender is very touchy and very sensitive. Yeah. And it's deeply personal. Ah. But I'm just speaking from our experience of watching our little boys grow up next to little girls. And I always describe it as this is also such a big generality.

Yeah. We have friends that have little boys that are very, very sensitive and very, like, very emotional, very emotional, very gentle, like all these things that we typically ascribe to femininity. Yeah. And they're very much a little boy too. So I'm just saying, I'm speaking in general terms here, but I'm noticing this is the best way that I can generalize the difference I notice. So say one of our kids gets hit, one of our boys gets hit. What do you mean hit? Oh, like they're firing.

A friend hit them. Ouch. That part of their body that they got hit hurts. And then as soon as it stops stinging, they're back to playing. Whereas I've noticed more in general are friends that have little girls that are two and three. Like they get hit and then it stops stinging, but they're still crying because now their feelings are also hurt.

Like their friend chose to hurt them. Like their friend used their body to harm them. And I'm noticing that that doesn't necessarily play as big of a role at this moment with our specific boys and some of my other friends that have had boys. So you're a lot more emotionally intelligent than me and way more mature than me. So I'm going to ask you this question because I feel like you would know the answer. Quit giving me this. I'm not an expert.

No, but I just feel like you, I don't know, you're just smarter than me. Anyway, a question. How do you raise emotionally intelligent masculine men like, yeah, strong leaders? But then at the same time, recognize that there are, they are, gay kids out there and you and you this has nothing to a sexuality in my opinion really so like do you raise if you have a gay son do you raise them to be masculine like what i don't even know what the answer is for that how do you raise i don't know like because this is this just shows how you were raised with such a rigid view of masculinity in my opinion oh frick damn i really i really was gosh dang it

um yeah yeah and i'm not this isn't this isn't a critique of your parents This was the times. And I don't know why. And this is me saying that the times are now different. And here's the thing. If we don't change it, men are falling behind. That is like what we said earlier with Scat Galloway. Like with how men are not, they're falling behind.

And he has all these factors that attribute to that. But let me get to your question. First of all, I am no expert. I have a two and a three year old. Let me just say this right now. My boys are little. They are not men. And I'm not a good case study to say like, oh, I know how to raise men.

I'm still, I'm just figuring this out and I just want to figure it out in real time with real parents of little kids. And so like I just think that this should be a conversation. These are the conversations I'm having with my friends all the time. And so like this is something that I'm interested in talking about also on our platforms. But what I'm saying is like first of all, I don't know. Let's just start by saying that I'm no expert in this area. But the first, my first knee jerk response to you asking that question is that empathy needs to specifically be taught intentionally with boys. Empathy.

Like really, really working on that. And so, like, with our kids, and I've noticed a lot of my friends doing this, too, so I've, like, learned this from them. It's like, okay, like you, for instance, day, one of our boys got in a physical altercation. Oh, my gosh, I don't know this. Wait. It's unlike them. That happened today?

It's unlike them. But, you know, they're. That's so sad. Was everybody okay? Everyone was fine. And, but I think that. No blood, right? No blood.

No blood. Okay. But it was just a sucker punch to the stomach. Good old hit to the face. What did we do? Did we do time out? for them to learn and think about what they did? We actually just had a conversation.

I didn't feel like there needed to be consequences to this one because we didn't witness it. They punched another kid and we didn't do a timeout? He was the one who got punched actually. But it's totally fine. So what I'm saying. Did you feel the urge to like be like you better freaking put your kid in time out? No, because I just was approaching with curiosity because I didn't see it.

And so that's a really hard thing about like with little kids. You're like kind of like what actually did happen here? One of you's crying. One of you's like saying something happened. So but what I'm saying is that like with when these. things happen really intentionally teaching empathy of like how do you think that made some feel check on them make sure they're okay that's good like we don't how would how would you feel if you were treated this way and so like having to really really be intentional specifically with the little boys about

teaching empathy for others and i think that's that's extremely important because i think i take for granted being a girl like empathy is just maybe something that's just more naturally running through my veins than like boys necessarily. You are so much more empathetic than me. I have I have so much to learn from you. Like where did you learn the deep empathy that you have? That's what I'm saying. Is there was there a woman in your life? Like it was it your mom, your grandma that like- I was treated with empathy. And so like, and I was parenting with empathy. Yeah. And I also think this is like maybe just like natural thing. It was also observed. But I'm just saying that that with boys being intentional about that. So our family rules to sum all that up is Howard's are patient,

mind, generous, obedient, and gentle. It doesn't matter the order because they're never actually used in order. If that makes sense. It's always like we're isolating one. Yeah. And like in practice. But it's good. Like we should frame that.

We should have those like up on a wall. Keep changing as they get older. But maybe we like frame it and then we put like some lines underneath to show that like it can evolve. Like who we are. I also don't think it needs to be confusing. But we also have a couple other mantras. I did not.

I took this from another family. I can't even remember the first. family I learned this from, but we always say Howard's do hard things where it's like, oh, if they don't, we don't really struggle with this a lot because we do have very, like, very confident, brave little boys. But if they're like, I think this is, I think about this when we had signed them up for soccer and they didn't want to do it. Let's add in brave.

Howard's are brave. I like that. Well, this comes up to, yeah, we say that all the time. I'm like, you're brave. I resonate things. I think it's just like unprocessed trauma or just like stuff I need to work through in therapy, but like something about being brave, like I resonate with that attribute because I feel like being brave makes me feel like I can like I can mean something, do something. Like it makes me,

I don't know, it gets me excited. It's scary to be brave, but I think it's admirable to do to be brave for the right reasons to go in and like make a difference in the world and be a good person. Yeah. Honestly, actually the book I'm reading is talking about the difference between bravery and courage, like being brave and being having courage. What is the difference? I think that um, probably having courage is better because being brave is like not feeling fear. Oh. Like I'm not fearing it. But having courage is like feeling the fear and still doing it.

People can disagree with this. But I do say my voice like when things are like small. Like I say it's not a big deal. Because I feel like when you're a little new human to the world, like everything can feel very alarming because everything is new. Everything is scary. Everything is like max volume, right? Of like, oh, I have no frame of reference for this thing that's happened.

and it elicits like the largest response possible. That's toddlers. They're just walking, talking nervous systems. And so I feel like as a parent, it's okay for me to acknowledge that, but then to also follow up with saying, it's actually not that big of a deal. And so the area that that falls in a lot, I feel like in practice in our parenting, because I don't want to just speak in broad terms and not be specific about this, is like the color of their vitamin, the color of their plate, the color of,

It's like, okay, in general, I know that you like green and you like blue, but guess what? And the grand scheme of things, it's not a big deal. And so sometimes I do have to break that. And I had to intentionally break that with the vitamins because we didn't, like, I was literally like, okay, we're going to find out what we get today. And I feel mean when I do this, babe. But like, if our kid is throwing a fit to get something he wants, that's like just so, like, I'm already caving. Like, they've asked for a second book during bedtime. And then they asked for a third one.

It's like, guys, like, we're supposed to do one book. I gave you an extra one. It's past your bedtime already. Like we played in the pool and it's 8.30. Bedtime, we want to do 8 p.m. So it's just one of those things where then you almost have to pull the card of, okay, I guess we're not going to do like maybe, oh, I'm about to read the second book, but they're begging.

They're like, no, I don't want two. I want three books. And it's like, no, this is what we're doing. And then I have to say, okay, I guess we're not going to have the book because we're throwing a fit and we're not being respectful. And so I think it's like you have to have those like uncomfortable conversations. with your kid, but it's for their benefit, even if it's just as simple as saying, like, hey, sorry today, you don't get the green cup.

So, like, what you're exactly saying is also the reason why I always tell our kids, first of all, everybody has consequences. Kids need to learn from an early age that, like, your behavior, your actions do have consequences. Yeah. And so it's like, I don't want to protect them from that. Their entire childhood, only for them to be an adult and they take a misstep. And then all of a sudden, they're facing real world adult consequences.

be like, what the heck? Like, I thought, I thought I was immune to all this stuff. And so I always, but I also don't want them to receive consequences without understanding and love and empathy about it. Now, I always say when they have a consequence, I'm like, I wanted to give you this. But everyone has consequences, right? And then I also follow up with the why behind consequences. And so that's where we have another mantra.

I like literally repeat myself all the time with our kids, but I just really want to hound it in their heads and keep it simple. And I always say, why do we have consequences? And it's because becoming a good man starts when. And then they're like, now. And so, like, we always talk about that. And it's funny, too, like, talking about generals, too. I want to say, like, it was either Griffin or Augie that said they wanted to marry their brother.

And it's like, I don't think you need to explain that. It's not that serious. It's not that serious. Like, I think, like, maybe an old school view of that would be like, no, no, you can only marry your girl. Like, I don't know. You'd like, a parent would, like, freak out and be like, I don't know. It's just like, that's not like, you can just talk about this stuff at age-appropriate times. It's not a big deal.

It's very appropriate for them to want to marry their brother. And if your two-year-old wants to throw on a dress because they're playing dress up and they're trying on dresses and Spider-Man costumes and Batman costumes, you don't say no to the dress. You just let them put on the dress because they're just being a two-year-old. Well, and also because wearing a dress is not what makes you feminine. Yeah. And wearing not wearing a dress is not what makes you masculine, which brings us to the conversation of masculinity. again. I think a parent's role is to love their kid and support them and really anything they want to do in a way that's like loving. And so I think if your kid, you know, says like, well, I want to be a

princess. You're going to eventually have to break the news to them that princesses aren't real. Other than like the Queen of England, where are you looking like that? But I think you like, you love them through that and you tell them that like you look at them, you, you view them as a princess and you just want to see them like, you know, not just be happy. but like find purpose and meaning and love and joy and get back to the world. So kind of to come back to what I was talking about earlier about like healthy masculinity, I think that includes empathy and consideration, deep consideration for everyone around you because I think a big part of healthy masculinity should be service.

And so that's why I talk to our boys all the time. Like for instance, when we had groceries at the front door, I expected our boys to carry the groceries for me. from the front door to the kitchen. And I kept saying, thank you gentlemen, thank you gentlemen. Because he should know that as they should know as males, like a big part of their role

as a man is to serve. And so I'm always like, yeah, you should serve me by carrying my groceries, holding my door. Which is really, really good. I love that we're teaching them to like be a part of our household and help put away the groceries with dad or to help hold open the door

for mom like dad does for mom. And I always am sure to say thank you gentlemen. But in addition to that, I think something that we're not doing that we can do a better job of is in addition to our financial giving, because we've been giving a portion of our revenue every year since the beginning of our social media journey. We've been giving a portion of our revenue to charity every year. But we don't give a portion of our time in addition to the financial backing we're giving to different charities that we love, like St. Jude, Charity Water, Give Well.

These are all charities that we've given generously too because we just care about making the world a better place. And we've done podcasts with two of the, yeah, we did a St. Jude podcast, a charity water podcast. We haven't done a podcast yet for a give well, but I'd love to do a podcast for them because really, really love what they do. But I think having that like physical component as a family, like on Saturdays we go and we help the local food bank for two hours. And then our kids can learn that like aspect of service and how important. that is to get back to the world. I think that's, I think that's really important. I think it's really, really important. I've talked about this before. Like, that is something that we definitely need to improve on and also invite our kids along on that journey is like serving their community.

But more than anything, I'm also talking about just like serving in the home. Like, they should know that part of being a man is serving those around you and specifically serving the women around you. I really believe that. And I think you also model that really well in our household with like, how you talk to me and how you take care of me. And that is very much evident in the way that our kids talk to me. Okay, fill me in on this because I had a juicy question for you. What is something that I do a good job of as far as leading by example for the boys? And then what scenario I can improve on?

I was actually just leading into this. Like our kids, like you can see the fruit of how you've modeled what it looks like to be a loving manly husband and the way that our kids talk to me. Wait, that kind of turns me on. You like hyping me up right now is like literally. Well, our kids tell me all the time. I've got the hots for you right now, babe. Got the hots.

They're like, mommy, you're beautiful. Or if I'm like sad, they're like, it's going to be okay, mommy. Why do I love that our kids say that to you? And they're like, mom, are you worried? No, I love when Augie says, if you're crying about like miscarriage and missing Emerson, the boys will literally say to you, it's going to be okay, mom. It's going to be okay. And I'm just like tears.

It's just like, I love that they're comforting you right now. They, it's very, I'm so grateful that they have you as an example to look to because, like, you are an amazing example of what it means to be manly nowadays. Like, you're literally, and here's the other thing that makes me so freaking mad. And where my comment came from back three years ago is, I think any creator that is a couple that is in the same space as us has definitely experienced this. I feel this without a shadow of a doubt. Whereas if the husband, displays sensitivity, emotional, any type of emotional aspect,

being emotional at all. Kindness, sweetness, sweetness, all the comments are like, run, girl, he's gay. He's gay. He's gay. He's gay. I've been told I'm gay my entire life. And you know what?

Those people that are commenting that, are feeling that, or saying that, let's also have empathy for them because they were raised in the same society in culture too where they were probably told if they had any type of emotion as a kid that they were gay. This just shows a misunderstanding of mis-masculinity. Within myself, there is masculinity and femininity. Wait, that's uncomfortable.

With you, there is masculinity and femininity. Why does it make me as uncomfortable as a man in the time that I was raised in to, like, say, in me as a man, there's masculinity and femininity. Like, why does femininity, like, why do I feel like, I don't know, like that word. Once again, it's just the time you're raised in. It sounds like a chill down my spine. It's very easy for me to say, like, in me there is masculine. Like, I don't.

I was kind of raised in the girl power era, which I'm grateful for. I'm so grateful for. Like, I was encouraged to succeed. I was encouraged to be strong, resilient, like, all these things. And, like, that's why I also feel like it is my duty to also reflect that, too, towards our young men. Thank you to Ali Pop for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. We are truly an all of it. pop household over here. We recently made a family mantra and we had a lot of serious things in

there, but we also did add that we will always be well stocked with beverages for guests that enter our home. Which you do a great job of by the way. That basically just means that we stock up on olive pop. You did that. You stopped our fridge just a couple days ago with like 20 different olive pot flavors. Nearly empty now though because olipop is so delicious. If you don't know what it is, it is a new kind of soda that combines the classic soda taste that we all grew up with loving. Oh yeah. But with the benefits of a functional ingredient blend to support digestive health. You really wouldn't know, though, because they really taste so good, but they are reimagining soda with high fiber and low sugar. And a lot of their flavors are rooted in nostalgia, which I also love.

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skin and there's blood and you're sad? I've done that. You're sad. I've done that so many times. Well Matt, I'm going to tell you as a woman that is a tail as old as time. I have sensitive skin. We have been stealing our husband's razors because these razors are cute and all that they are marketing towards women, but they just don't do the job. We need sharp razors.

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starter set for only $7 at shopflamingo.com slash unprosied. This set includes the Flamingo original razor, one five blade cartridge, a one ounce foaming shave gel, and a shower holder. Just head to shopflamingo.com slash unplanned to claim this offer, and after you purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please, please, please support our show and tell them we sent you. I know we touched on this already, and I think I know the answer to this, but I want to hear you say it out loud for everyone listening right now. With women making more than men, how should men respond in the home? What should men do? First of all, I think we need to view income for a household differently.

Like, I don't look at our income as like what I make and what you make. I have no idea what dollar amount I make versus what dollar amount you make. It's what we make. I think it's a fragile, masculine view, but I think the viewpoint is like, well, if my wife's making more than me, I'm insignificant. I'm not. I'm not contributing. I'm supposed to be the provider. I'm not providing for my family.

I don't know how to tell you. I genuinely do not think women care about money. I think that's the black and white view. of men. Like men think that if they can make more money, they can provide security and provision for their families. I think men are just, in this view of masculinity, men are set up to fail. If men are viewed as valuable for the amount of dollars they bring home every year, every month, then we're just setting them up for failure, limiting masculinity to that. And how is this a trend affected then by childbirth? Because I feel like the women making more

than men are probably mostly women that are probably not married or probably don't have kids. I don't know. There's a lot of working moms out there. True, true. There are. Yeah, actually, that's a really good point. I'm not sure that that's actually even true. Wait, actually, you're right. I think, like, even in our own life, I want to say both of our sister-in-laws make more than their husbands. And I think, like, we're probably seeing this trend. We've seen it in our life, and so I'm sure people are seeing it in their life, too. Of course, and I think that, like, a lot of women got these, like, really big careers, very high opportunity careers, well-paying jobs.

Yeah. And then they find themselves like maybe making more than their spouse and then having a kid and then feeling like, oh man, now I actually kind of want to stay home with that baby. But then it's like, oh, I am bringing the bulk of the income home each month. That makes me think of the TikTok with the Misses Incredible audio that's like, come on, girls. Leave the same world to the men? I don't think so. I love that.

See, I love that. I like that too. And I also think, never mind, I'm not going to say that out loud. Sorry. You have a crush on Mrs. Incredible. That's fine and weird. I think Mrs. Incredible is attractive, but I think you're more attractive. So I think that makes me like, I just gave you a really big compliment.

Great. Yeah. I think also modern masculinity or modern healthy masculinity looks like good communication. And that which also comes from like empathy and from consideration. I'm saying some unhinged stuff today. I'm like, I got to be careful with the clipping. The clipping of this. Another thing that I think is really important specifically in us raising strong, confident, resilient young men that are also very empathetic and considerate and kind and gentle is critical thinking skills.

I think that's specifically like what is the calling for men nowadays is to be really strong critical thinkers. Because I think that that's part of being a good leader. and I still want to raise our boys to be strong leaders. And so a part of that is having really good critical thinking skills. I feel like a lot of times like at least in our relationship where I'm like, oh my gosh, like this is something that's like new and I'm not really sure how to like, I'm not really sure. Like I'm kind of like feeling out of sorts or like this is big and I'm like Matt, I like look to

you and I feel like you have amazing critical thinking skills and that's like why I think that's like a unique special gift. It's not like women don't have it too. but like that is really like strong. Why does that make me feel like an alpha whenever you like turn to me? Does it? That's good. And so I feel like with our boys, it's like I really want to help teach them critical thinking so.

So how this comes to play, because I also want to be practical about this conversation. I don't want to just be speaking in general terms. Like I said, how it comes to play is when they're when they are given a consequence. It's like if they're taking a break for like one or two minutes or whatever, like they don't get the fruit snack or whatever you're consequences are in your household, obviously keep them appropriate, as having a conversation to help strengthen those critical thinking skills. And so it's not like we're just doling out consequences for no reason. They don't understand. It doesn't lead to behavior modification down the line. As we say like, hey, what did you do wrong? What should you do differently next time? And then what

should you do now? That is them thinking critically through like, okay, we did not just give a consequence to give a consequence. And then we always say, like, I didn't want to give you this consequence. but raising good men starts now and everyone has consequences and so we talk about like even with us like I love when there's like a situation in life where it's like ugh we have to have this consequence like for us my mommy has this consequence because I didn't do this or yeah like if I'm running late no I love it like what's an example of Griffin telling me something maybe one time I was like driving like five miles per hour in a parking lot and my seatbelt wasn't on it's like dad you got you got to buckle up like and then it's like oh my good like Griffin I forgot I need to pull over and I'm not going to explain to him as like he's a three-year-old so he doesn't he's not going to fully understand like how driving 20 feet in a parking lot going five miles per hour isn't a big deal if you buckle

up but because he understands the rules I want to reinforce like great job like you recognize the rule that we have in this world and these rules are set up to protect us and so I'm going to like I'm going to like I'm going to praise you for that like thanks for reminding me but I'm not going to be like oh dad doesn't have to follow the rules I do whatever the if I want like no you like you like that's also you modeling like oh I'm submitting myself to like obey the rules. I'm submitting myself to a three year old. I'm submitting myself to a three year old.

But like they can see you once again not being too big or too proud. I'm acknowledging my two three year old. You acknowledging your role in society too. And so all that to say like I really want to make sure. I feel like that's how critical thinking skills can play a role. And like it specifically comes in like after having consequences with our kids. Yeah. I feel like a lot of this is kind of making it sound like I feel like I know everything.

And it's like that's literally not the case. all I'm constantly having conversations with my friends of like, how can I learn this or like reading books or like just learning. And I feel like honestly a lot of this is best done through conversation. And the only authority we have on this topic is the fact that we are parents. We have two boys. We're not experts. Which isn't really much of an authority. There's a lot of parents out there. We're not experts. We're not. We didn't go to school at Harvard or get a master's in family like like practice counseling and in therapy. That's not us. We're not a marriage and the family therapist, okay? Our degree's not in this, but we're just talking about our own life and our

own experience. Yeah. I also want to say, like, I feel so proud of our boys in specific circumstances, and I always praise the heck out of it when I see these things happen. So we had a little friend come over who is a three-year-old girl. She's playing. And then I noticed that, like, our dog had scratched her. And she was really sad about it. Oh, wait. I know who this is. I hate that. And she thought to go to our oldest directly. She's like, hey, like, I'm sad because pretzel scratched me. And her son put his arm around her. And he gave her a hug.

He gave her a hug. And he, like, checked out. He looked at her wound. That makes me want to cry. That's so sweet. And then he proceeded to walk over to our sliding glass door where she was outside. And he threw the glass. He's like, don't do that again, pretzel.

And I feel like that is very, that was just a beautiful picture of him. He's protective of women. But then he also checked to make sure that she was okay and he cared for her emotions, gave her a hug. Yeah. And then went and it was like, I'm going to defend you. Yeah. And so I feel like all of these things are like really, really such good things at their foundation. Yeah.

Now can these things be twisted to be misuse, like this, can this masculine trait be twisted to be toxic or to be harmful towards women? Yeah. Or to be just like belittling. Yes, it can. but like that is such a beautiful picture to me. I'm like, hey, Griffin, thank you so much for protecting her. Thank you so much for caring for her, having empathy for her. And we don't necessarily use all those words, but I'm like, really thank you for checking in on her.

Thank you for giving her a hug. Thank you for like doing these things. And it just makes me so, so proud. And my main thing, first of all, if the term man hating culture is like offensive, that's not my goal at all. That was just how I was experiencing it because I just never want my little boys to go about their life and just hear these things and take them on as they're developing their view of themselves and their role in the world to hear like, I hate men, men are the worst and then be like,

man, there's something wrong with me. Like there's something, I'm not capable of this. Like there's just such a defeated, I don't, I never want that to happen. Like I want them to feel empowered in their unique role as a man. Like I want them to feel empowered in that. Yeah. And I feel like a man that's properly empowered. power does not one that is going to be abusive, like misuse power.

Yeah. Any of those things. I think a lot of them, I think men that have positions of power that do harmful things in society and in the world probably are just men that need to go therapy and haven't been and haven't worked and haven't worked through personal things that they're now, like, they're searching for something that they're never going to find because it's just they need to put in the work for themselves. Which I also want to like applaud you on because when you go to therapy. It's not like, okay, they're like, wait, where's dad going? It's not like you're like, I'm just going to go out and do tinker with the car. You're like, I'm going to therapy. And you're making that normal, making it normal to be like, I have things I want to work on.

Yeah. Making that healthy and making that like okay for them to be like, okay, I can go to therapy too. And I feel like a lot of boys. A lot, yeah. And also, let's props to your dad. He modeled that for you too, which was very rare in his day age. My dad's never done. I am proud of my dad for being open about going to couples therapy. I think the next step that I've taken, that I guess I should be proud of myself as individual. Because that wasn't modeled for me. What was modeled as going to therapy for your marriage. But also not demonizing therapy in general was a big step. Yeah, individual therapy was not modeled for me. And so for me to take that step myself, I'm proud of myself for that. And I think it's important for like, and I truly mean this.

Like I'm not trying to just like sell everyone on therapy. But I do really believe that everyone, literally everyone could gain value in therapy, even if it's just a few times, right? For sure. And if therapy isn't like a financial option at a certain time, like having, having candid raw vulnerable conversations with trusted community really can have very similar effects. Which something I need to work on is like just to be candid and vulnerable for a second. Like I, there's conversations I have with my therapist that I don't think I could have with any of my friends, which is, I feel like that, I wish it wasn't that way. I don't know.

what it is with me. I take full ownership for it. I don't know what it is about me where I feel like I can't share some of those things with my closest guy friends, but I literally have told it's like I've told my therapist like everything just like you, you know? So it's just, I don't know. I don't know. But I want to say too, like that is a great example of masculinity for our boys. Is you being willing to work on yourself actively as a grown man and specifically working on yourself and in a emotional capacity. That's huge and that's so important. And I feel like that also needs to be included in our definition of modern masculinity. Yeah. And can I say this too? This might be a bit of a hot take, but I don't think your spouse can be your therapist. You cannot expect your spouse to meet

each and every emotional need you have, man or woman. It does not matter. Like you need to find healthy outlets for your emotions, especially the big ones that, you know, everybody has them. everyone has different ways of dealing with them. But I think it's extremely toxic for a husband or a wife to expect their spouse to meet all of that. And I've definitely been guilty of there's been times where I'm like, oh, Abby needs to do this from me. And I think a really good place, if you're ever in a state of bitterness, I think for me to have this, this realization of what can I do? It's like that saying, look not to what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. I think that's John F. Kennedy.

Somebody quote me on that. I said, I've quoted, I've quoted that in the past and people were like, oh yeah, that's the quote by. And then I forget who it is every time. My memory is not that great. But in your marriage, same thing. What can you do for your marriage? What can you to make your marriage better? Which once again goes into service?

And I think like both men and women on the side of like hate, like almost, if you're finding yourself as a man or a woman, finding hatred for a gender, period. It doesn't matter which one it is. It doesn't matter if it's the same gender that you are. It doesn't matter if it's a different gender. Regardless of what the hatred is, if you're finding that, think about it. Put yourself in their shoes.

Think about it from a different perspective. And I think it's just important to always do that. Well, let's also recognize why this became so popular. Yeah. In my opinion, I feel like a lot of it has to do with our algorithms. They promote the most angry, the most like emotion-infused response, the most like, I feel like that played a major role in why I was arriving to the conclusion of like, oh, we're living in a man hate world because the big, the videos that are like the most anger

driven, the most stereotyping, the most emotional, like those are the ones that are getting promoted. Those are the ones getting the most comments, the most getting likes, shares, all those things. And that's how I like arrived at that conclusion. And I'm like, I'm not fully, I still don't necessarily fully disagree with that. but I do think that yeah like that clip definitely did not recognize the nuance that this situation the complexity of this issue and like why we're seeing this pendulum swing this way because of all the oppression and hate and abuse and mistreatment that's what causes that

I think the problem social media I think I think it's a big part of it the drama in the T gets clicks and I think that's why we see I think yeah all of that leads to the voices of people hating on men and then the men that are then hating on women like the red pill community like i think that's like where you get all this drama and then you get these sides and it's just a lot of conflict yeah and i just want to say like as a mom to two young boys i am not afraid to raise my boys to be masculine yeah like that is something that that's like literally one of my goals and in my mind that comes with so much nuance but it is i want them to be strong yeah I want them to be resilient.

I want them to be good leaders. Yeah. And I want them to be protective. Yeah. Like those are things that I'm like, I uniquely want that for them as boys. Now, that doesn't mean that if I have a little girl that I don't also want her to raise her to be those things. Yeah. But these are like, these are primary goals for me as a boy mom.

This is like a messy, sensitive topic. And like I don't want to act like I'm disregarding that at all. And I want to be very empathetic towards that. Like my thoughts aren't fully collected, but I've just been having these. it feels scary to voice them because of responses like we got in the past. Yeah. But I don't want that fear to hold me back from having a conversation that feels important to me as a mom of two boys.

And it's important to me too. And I think it would be silly for us to not talk about what we believe. Like it's important. It's important to talk about what you believe. And then also like I think the beauty of social media is the connection that we have. And we can share these ideas. You know, even though that was a 22 second clip by the way that blew up and got some, you know, maybe negative comments.

But I think like there's a lot we can learn from that. There's a lot that our viewers that believe a lot of the same things we believe can learn from different viewpoints. And I think it's really important as a society, especially in today's day and age, to listen to other viewpoints because that's what brings us together. We don't need to, we don't need to continue to divide up as a country and as a world. We need to build bridges to one another and talk about these things. Well, guys, thank you so much for tuning in.

again if you have not left a review for the podcast please please do that it's also free to subscribe and hit the like button completely free way you can support the show because it's free to watch it we don't charge you guys a penny so thank you and thank you to our sponsors for allowing us to keep the show going and continuing to build the team so we can make better episodes for you guys thank you so much and until next time peace out dudes