The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby - Raven-Symoné & Miranda Pearman-Maday on Childhood Fame, Having Kids, and Failed Proposal

Episode Date: December 4, 2024

Raven-Symoné and her wife Miranda discuss life as a same-sex couple, including their plans to start a family and the story behind Raven’s panic attack during her proposal. Raven also reflects on her life as a child star, starring in 'That’s So Raven', coming out in 2013, and how the Disney Channel made her wear heels to appear skinnier. This episode is sponsored by Rosetta Stone, Apostrophe, June's Journey & Nutrafol Rosetta Stone: Visit https://www.rosettastone.com/unplanned for their lifetime membership holiday special. Apostrophe: Get your first visit for only $5 at https://apostrophe.com/unplanned and use our promo code UNPLANNED. June's Journey: Download June’s Journey for free here https://bit.ly/unplannedpodcast Nutrafol: Visit https://nutrafol.com and enter promo code UNPLANNEDGIFT for $10 off any order! Lume: Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with @lumedeodorant and get 15% off with promo code UNPLANNED at https://www.lumepodcast.com/UNPLANNED #lumepod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Parents, when you visit California, childhood rules. If you don't remember how awesome childhood is, just ask yourself. What do kids do? Let childhood rule your family vacation. Start planning your trip to the ultimate playground at visitcalifornia.com. This episode is brought to you by Dyson On Track.

Dyson On Track headphones offer best in class noise cancellation and an enhanced sound range, making them perfect for enjoying music and podcasts. Get up to 55 hours of listening with active noise cancelling enabled, soft microfiber cushions engineered for comfort, and a range of colors and finishes. Dyson On Track Headphones Remastered By from DysonCanada.ca With ANC on, performance may vary based on environmental conditions and usage accessories Accessories sold separately. Hey Miranda, I think that you're pretty f***ing great and I think that we should get married. Are you in or are you out? I said what I'm saying, I meant it.

I'm black and I'm an American and I have African descent in me. I also have American Indian. I also have a lot of other things. We categorize ourselves here. But when I go overseas, I'm an American. Today's episode's incredible. If you don't know who Raven is, she is one of the most iconic Disney Channel stars of all time. She got her start as a child actor when she was only three years old on the Cosby show.

I am out of here. Then she went on to be the youngest black female to have a TV show named after her with the show That's So Raven, which we all know and love. That's me. Now she's married to her lovely wife, Miranda, and we talk with them about everything from having children as a same-sex couple,

being a child actor, and even why Raven had a panic attack when she proposed to her wife. So enjoy, thanks for being here. Something that I recently learned is the whole world's been saying your name wrong your entire life. Yes.

Can you elaborate on that? What's the correct pronunciation so we can set the record straight? The correct pronunciation of my name is Raven-Symoné because there's an accent, a grave over the e which is mostly in French speaking countries. So that's why I never corrected people because we don't really use that a lot here in America. But there was a trend on TikTok and you know how this is actually how it's done. I'm like, well, this is actually how it is. And I was at it was just a trend. You were jumping you announced it? So do you just kind of go along with it still?

Like people mispronouncing it or do you correctly pronounce it every time? No, no, no. I even speak it incorrectly. Raven-Symoné. It's much easier for the American tongue, just to be honest. You know, Raven-Symoné. And then I'm like, oh, I've been called Raven-Symoné my whole entire life. But no one calls you Raven-Symoné.

No one in her family, like her mom doesn't call her Raven-Symoné. whole entire life. But no one calls you Raven-Symoné. No one in her family, like her mom, doesn't call her Raven-Symoné. Like this is, Raven is actually really looking at the accent. And it's funny because I asked my mother-in-law about it, and she was like, oh no, I just thought that was cute. Because no one actually calls her Raven-Symoné. But because the accent is there, Raven is like, well, this is what this means.

Much like if you have a tilde over an N, like in manana, you know that to roll the N a little bit, that's what it is. So. Like growing up, I thought your last name was Simone. I think. That is incorrect as well. Yeah, it's the first name. Yeah, it's hyphenated.

And now I'm a two hyphenated name. Yeah, we have long names. Yeah, we do. Yeah, so what's the full name? Okay, Raven, correctly? Correctly. Raven Simone, Pyramid May names. Yeah, we do. Yeah, so what's the full name? Okay, Raven, correctly? Correctly. Raven Simone Pierman Mayday. Okay, beautiful.

Yeah, it actually, oh, Raven Simone Pierman Mayday. Wow. That's so bright. Raven Simone Pierman Mayday. You should do that now. You can make a song out of that. I've never said it like that before. She can rap it.

Really, hilarious. Like when you introduce yourself, you don't say the full name. No, I never say the full name. You're so confused. And we, people like don't say the full name. No I never say that. You are so confused. People don't know how to address this. Also when we got married and we hyphenated our name people thought that I was Miranda Peerman Mayday like all the time.

And I think they thought that I was the Peerman because they had no clue that Raven's last name was actually Peerman. So there's always just been named debacle. And then Mayday is spelled M-A-D-A-Y. And so people my whole life have said Mayday. And then if you say Mayday, they throw another Y in there. So we just have trauma bonded over our names. Yeah. Like we know who we are. Thank you. And that's all that matters. A name does not define me.

Whose idea was it to combine your last names? Ours. We chose it. Yeah, I think we talked about it and we were just kind of like, what do we want to do? I really like my last name. I think Miranda Mayday is a strong name and my father was so adamant when we were girls growing up that Mayday was a really great name. But she did think about taking away her M because she wanted cool initials. Ah wait what taking

away my M? Taking away your M because if you took away your last M what would your initials be? Oh yes MVP. Oh yeah sorry I had to get up there yeah but I think MVP M is cool too but MVP MVP is pretty great. MVP, she was like, oh my god. And then I like mine, RSCP, but now it's RSCPM. Whenever I see hers, I think RESPECT. Exactly. I should just keep adding to my name and just get to RSPECT. Like LGBTQ putt. Bring that list up.

Your necklaces with your initials, MVP would be pretty. I know. I know. Also, if we did that, imagine how long they'd be. They'd be like shoulder to the width of our shoulders. That's funny. And you have your son with you right now, this cute little guy.

I did not know he was gonna be coming with you today. This is so cool. Surprise. What a gift. His name is Quinn. Quinn. Oh he was, oh yeah. Yeah. Sorry we woke you up buddy.

Good morning. Go back to sleep. oh yeah. Yes. Sorry we woke you up buddy. Good morning. Go back to sleep. So cute, he's so well behaved. Yeah. Thank you. He is a good little guy. He comes with us most places and he's very, he's very well behaved and he's a little angel.

He's a little angel. Oh, oh he knows he's on camera now, okay. Yeah, okay get ready Quinn. I brush his teeth every day. Oh my gosh. I wash his teeth every day. Oh my gosh. I wash his face every day. And you said before this, you had a nursery basically for him.

Yeah. As a pup? As a pup, it was just me and him in the nursery at the nighttime so that he could feel safe. I absolutely, I don't know, I have this thing. Okay, now he's gonna, now he's awake. I have this thing and I know it's not the best for all of the dog people but I like sleeping with dogs.

I'm not really a super crate person unless it's to train in certain ways but I like for them to be a part of the family so he sleeps right here, he sleeps right here, he sleeps everywhere and he's been doing that forever. I know a lot of people who sleep with their dogs. I love it. You guys have a dog? No. Yeah we don't we've thought about it, but we have kids Our kids eat our food off the floor so We're gonna stop doing that and get a dog

That's fair No they actually do we have to like really be careful with that No! Don't touch them Kids are just fun like they just want to test every boundary So you just have to teach them right like in Disney world there'd be like popcorn on the floor I see our kids reaching for the popcorn. I'm like no, no, no First of all, they're not supposed to have popcorn to begin with. Oh my gosh somebody else's popcorn. That's on the ground Why no popcorn? I can't have popcorn. It's a choking hazard. So little kids can't have popcorn. Yeah. It just gives me gas

I mean, sorry guys. I've never heard of that before. I didn't know that popcorn gave you gas I thought it was just like beans. There's a lot of butter in it. I mean, lots of different things to give you gas. I think it's major for me. The corn? Sorry guys. I always veer off a little to the left. No, you're good. No, that's hilarious. Yeah. Yeah. Can you take anything for that? Can you take, does lactate help with popcorn? It's literally just don't. Like the only popcorn I can eat. It's just literally don't. Yeah, yeah, can you take anything for that? Can you take this lactate help with?

Don't like the only popcorn. I literally don't it's just literally don't I can have a jelly bean popcorn That's about it, and I miss it too like the the the caramel ones from Garrett's Yeah, although Garrett's is that Chicago. Yes, it is what I say Okay, yeah, Chicago. Yeah, I would always get that in downtown Chicago at Christmas time. So good. So good, I miss it. So what do you have when you watch movies? Air.

Nothing. I'll have a- Korean barbecue. All day Korean barbecue. I'll do something called a carnivore crisp or a wild chip, which is- Oh yeah. You've seen those?

It's like chicken. It's like chicken chips. I'll do something like that. Okay, fun. What is your love story? Cause you guys got married in 2020, but like you've been together for a while, right? Yes We have we met in 2015 and Raven was moving to New York soon after that to do the view and we ended up going to New York together and

Dating for a while. Okay, Quinn. And then we broke up, had time kind of to discover ourselves, date, do what we had to do, and then came back together in 2020 and got married very quickly after that. Oh, wow. We kind of, well, I had always known

that Raven was my person. And so it felt really easy once we were back together and she realized that I was her person, to just be like, let's go, let's do this. That's it, that's a good love story. That's really cool. Were you guys together all throughout lockdown? For the second half of lockdown.

For the second half of lockdown, we were together and it was interesting. We definitely bonded. Obviously, a lot of people did or did not. But for those who did, we made it last a little bit longer after lockdown. We got used to it and loved the companionship that we had with each other of just us two. Like we were the last people in our crew to take off our masks. We were the last people to be like, oh there's a dinner party? Okay, we'll just, we'll FaceTime. We're not really going out anywhere. We just started getting on planes again to be honest and when we do get on planes, like can I

tell, can I tell a secret? It's not a bad secret, I don't think it would be embarrassed. Like we still put Vaseline and like antiseptic in our nose. I don't think that's a bad secret at all. Okay, cool. I mean more people should do that. What even does that do? I actually have no idea. Well, it can help keep you healthy

because there's so many airborne pathogens, right? So if you just put a little Vaseline in your nose, then it catches whatever might go up your nose and get you sick. So it's a really smart protocol to, whenever you're going to big crowds, you're traveling, if you're going to a concert, if you just put a little Vaseline in the rim of your nose,

and if you wear glasses, you know, because it's basically mouth, nose, eyes, and ears that would get you sick. So if you do that or you swab your ears with a little bit of hydrogen peroxide, especially with young kids, you can just do that with them and it will reduce. Definitely don't take our things for medical,

but do your own research. Yeah, yeah. I'm not a doctor and everyone knows that, but what I'm saying is also kind of standard in terms of swabbing. But yes, we do that and I think more people should do it. Maybe that's why we keep getting sick all the time because with two little children who you know are just touching everything I'm like maybe I need to just put some Vaseline in my nose.

Solve the problem. Yeah, it really I mean it definitely helps. I'm all about it. He's gonna get this shiny dad. I know he's gonna get this. He's already like this. He's already like, you're obsessed with Vaseline. I am. He rubs it on his hands every single night. Good for you. Oh yeah, soft hands.

And I'm like, can you hold my hand? Like when we're falling asleep, he's like, oh I got Vaseline all over my hand. I bet you have soft, nice hands. I wish, I have like old people hands. They're so dry. He is not working. I think I have like old people hands. They're so dry I have I think I have eczema is probably what it is, but I put so much lotion and stuff in my hands Nothing, nothing. Have you ever tried talo? Yeah, well since you also have to know that vaseline is an occlusive, right?

So it like is supposed to hold in moisture But if you don't have something on top of that like if you put a lotion and then you put vaseline and then you put a glove on Yeah, then you'll start actually hydrating your skin. You've got so many tips. Like if you put a lotion and then you put Vaseline and then you put a glove on, then you'll start actually hydrating your skin. You've got so many tips. She's crazy with it. She's crazy with it. That is good.

I know my Vaseline real well. I do. I do. I do. That's actually good. You should do that because something's not working. I have ashy knees. Like my knees are always white.

So maybe I need to put on lotion before the Vaseline. Try a tallow too, just pure animal fat. It's actually more hydrating than a lotion that you get over the counter. I keep hearing that. It's really good. You can make your own, but also just ordering like a good whipped tallow or a shea butter. Shea butter is great too, that's old school. Sorry, love story, who told who that they loved them first? Oh, she said it first. I did. You did, you told Carlicia.

I know, you always say that. I heard it. And I feel like you misheard. I was eavesdropping. I heard it in the kitchen while I was in the cuppy hole. I know that you say this, and Carlycia is Raven's friend and assistant who was living in the same apartment as us. My assistant at the time.

No longer. Yeah. Okay. And she claims that she overheard this kitchen conversation and I don't remember it at all. But in a cubby hole. Okay. So let's explain that. Yeah, that part.

That part. So in New York, apartments are just freaking weird. Okay? Yeah. And I found a really cool apartment in a friend's apartment building, and it was a two-bedroom with a cubby hole. And I say that by, when you're going from the first level to the second level,

there's like a half level that you would store your suitcases. It was like a lofted that you would store your suitcases or you know extra stuff however I used it as my bedroom it was weird you guys it was weird I gave Carlysea the bedroom I took the cubby hole and then the second room was actually my art room because I was in college for art at the time so I cool. So I sacrificed my whatever and got in the cubby hole which was kind of cool. It had like rails, I could see everything. Somebody came into the front door. I remember when I first got to New York I was like, oh wait, this is where we're sleeping

because you could not stand up. You would definitely, and it was just a mattress on the floor and I was like Raven, what is going on here? But I have to admit it was probably one of the most comfortable sleeping situations because it was only a room made for sleep and she got a great well actually I'm lying you had tatami mats at first and it was extraordinarily hard but then you did buy a softer once you got in and yeah she wanted her comfortable but I do love sleeping on the floor I love sleeping on a tatami mat. And I also use like a thicker type of Indian based mattress that can fold in and fold out.

But we, it was just a big pillow. It's like kids wish they had spaces like that. Yeah. Yeah. Those like, well, Matt used to sleep in his brother's closet. I did. Yeah. It was like a little tiny space.

It's kind of fun and cozy. It's like the womb. We're all going back. I just thought it was so sick because I used to watch Star Wars as a kid. You know how the doors will go like they just like slide and that was how the closet worked and I thought oh my gosh this is my Star Wars bedroom. It's like a secret door nobody knows it's there. Love it. Speaking of the womb, are you still practicing a doula? I'm not. Still practicing as a doula, but I am a trained doula. Okay, cool.

Did that for almost two years, and then the pandemic kind of derailed everything. And then we started our podcast and our work together, but amazing work. Incredible. It's really beautiful, intense, amazing work. What brought you into that? You know, it's interesting. When we were in New York, I found a place

called Care's Birth House run by Domino Kirk. And for anyone who may or may not know, Domino Kirk is a badass doula and married to Penn Badgley now. And she wasn't at the time. But I remember seeing, I think it was like her Instagram or something, and I was like, this woman is amazing. She was like tatted up and just still like really beautiful and charismatic and conversational.

And I looked at this group of women that she was working with. And I was like, I kind of feel like I'd fit with these people. Or at least I want to believe that I would fit with these people. Yeah, a little bit. Not like Domino. But I kind of was like, maybe I want

to do something like this. Because my career had been bouncing a little bit. I was personal assisting here. I thought I wanted to do something like this because my career had been bouncing a little bit. I was like personal assisting here. I knew I wanted, I thought I wanted to do something in entertainment, but I didn't know where I fit in entertainment and blah, blah, blah. So I was like, maybe I just take some real initiative and do something like this. Went in, went out, left New York after we broke up, went back into working in entertainment. And then finally,

I was just like, you know what? I'm going to take a doula training. I just really want to do this. And I found one in LA, went, and yeah, that was that period of my life for almost two years. That's really cool. It also has to be so intense, like you said, kind of crazy. And you also did postpartum.

So is that you're kind of like, what would that look like in postpartum. So is that you're kind of like, what would that look like in postpartum? So postpartum would look like mom and dad and baby or mom and mom or dad and dad come home from hospital with their newborn baby. And mostly people wanted overnights. So I would come in at like 6pm.m. and stay until maybe 6 a.m. and then I was basically, you know, bringing if mom was breastfeeding when baby woke up I'd bring the baby there, mom would breastfeed or mom would come in and change, swaddle and then I'd put baby back to sleep

so mom could go to sleep and then on other levels it was making sure that, you know, everything was clean for them in the kitchen, making sure that there was food, maybe making sure that the baby's laundry was done. And a lot of them processing and kind of helping the family adjust because it's such a sensitive time. And it's such a special time and sacred time. but there's a lot of emotions, a lot of feelings. So I would kind of navigate that with the parents and just make sure everyone is adjusting while everyone's getting to know each other. It's a new way of being, which you guys know as parents.

That's so cool. What a gift to those families. Because like you said, that is such a, it's some shocking transition to make and to have someone that's like experienced like they're must be very comforting for them. Thank you to Rosetta Stone for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. Do you want to learn a different language?

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With built-in true accent feature gives you feedback on your pronunciation, like having a personal trainer for your accent, which is really cool. So then you don't sound like a white person trying to do that. That's actually really cool that you can talk to Rosetta Stone and then it can tell you if you're doing the pronunciation or like the accent, right? I did not know that we had that technology in 20, 20 language. I know the consistency is really important and it's really easy to be consistent because it has a flexible learning format. You can do it anytime, anywhere, you can learn on the go, they even have a mobile app, or you can do it on your

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holiday offer at rosettastone.com slash unplanned today for yourself or as a gift that keeps on giving. Is having children something you guys want to do one day? Yeah, we definitely want kids. We are blessed to be able to make a decision when it happens. Yeah. No surprises. Yeah.

So, we get to plan and we're planning on a constant basis of making sure our world looks right. And then there's that time where you just have to like throw it in the wind and say, okay, just take it. We'll get there. That's awesome. No unplanned podcast with us and babies. That's literally a big reason why we call this

the unplanned podcast. Hey, you could get another dog unplanned. They can just show up one day. That's true. We could just find one on the side of the road. Wait, so your first pregnancy was unplanned? No, no, no. Second. Second. That's why they're 13 months apart. the road is wait so your first pregnancy was unplanned? No no second.

Yeah second. That's why they're 13 months apart but you know what it was it was we didn't know it was part of the plan but it was part of plan the whole time we just didn't know it and it's been awesome. That is close though I can understand being that early into your postpartum and yeah just when you're starting to maybe find your feet again to find out you're pregnant can be kind of traumatic. It was a little bit yeah we had I had like a big surgery in between two and so I was like one month out from that and I was like oh wow we're doing it again but it's been awesome they're they're a blast. Yeah yeah I'm so curious also if this question is like too much,

no worries at all, but like with having kids, do you think you'd maybe adopt? Do you think you might like look into a donor or something? Like how, what does that process look like? I mean, there's so many versions of that process that we didn't get into. You know, there's donor, there's adoption, there's surrogate, there's we carry,

there's all kinds of things. And I think that looking forward and what works best for us will just present itself. We are believers in the universe, and like, just like how you said, the second one is unplanned, but it's a part of the plan. I think that when it's time for us to sit down

and make that choice, what the easiest route will be is what we were supposed to have. So, we talk about all versions of it and it looks cool either way. I mean, the dream is she has a baby that looks like me and I have a baby that looks like her. And we birth it. You know what I mean?

I'm sure other people can relate to this feeling. When you are in love with someone, there are those moments where you look at them and you're just like, oh, I just want that person. I want that little version. Or I wanna see what we would be together. And that is kind of, at times, I mean, some people can say that's a narcissistic thought

or a pattern or whatever. But in a perfect world, if I could mix us together and have that baby, I'd totally want to. The closest thing we could kind of get to that is taking one of our eggs. If I had egg retrieval and then implanted into Raven, then she would birth my genetic baby. But have carried my genetic baby which I think is the closest that a lesbian couple can or a gay couple can get to that but super

cool. Super cool. But that also requires a lot of medicine on our bodies. Medicine and hormones. A lot of things to do with us. That we're not totally in love with. That's tough. Yeah. Yeah. Is either one of you eager to be pregnant? Because I know like at least in our relationship already Abby's like- You were saying like you when you are in love with someone you seem to be like I just want to have babies with you. Like I totally felt that like right away. That's the feeling and I don't but neither of us are necessarily eager to- I was eager. I was more eager to have a kid at like 15. I really did.

I wanted to be pregnant from 15 until like I really saw a pregnancy happen. And I was like, woo! Nothing wrong with that. I'm not doing that. That's wide. That's wide. So I can't.

But it was a beautiful experience, gorgeous. I love it. Maybe not for me. Epidurals scare the crap out of me. And I do feel like if I did birth, I'd have to be like, in an ocean with a dolphin, with multiple sounds of she-shows around me. And the she-shows. And the she-shows.

And an entire village chanting, hoo-ha. I think you literally would be like, She chose Literally, that was so not such a cute plan babe. I'd be like this the whole time. Hee hee hoo. That's beautiful. Babes, can I have that? Let me just tell you. Can I do that?

You can have that. During the full moon? In my doula work, when I would talk to my clients, I'd say have your wish list. Know it's a wish list and know that the likelihood of you getting that wish list is unlikely because birth very rarely goes to plan. It really just-

I'm planning it. You can plan it. It's gonna happen in Fiji. Plan all you want. Fiji. If you ever wanna Fiji, if you ever go to Fiji, that's where I'm birthing my child.

God damn, whose baby are you having? Yeah. I'm the highest, I don't know what I'm doing. Fiji. Yeah, me, I'm gonna be there in a giant sun hat. Let's go off, babes. Push that thing out. Don't forget sunscreen.

Yeah, exactly. And Vaseline. No, Vaseline. Let's go. All you need is Vaseline to get that baby out. Yeah, literally. Let's go. Oh my gosh, I wish.

Ridiculous. That's crazy. That's so funny. You're like, I've seen some things. It doesn't work with me. Yeah. I mean, I think that similar to you, though, as a kid, I really wanted to be pregnant. Yeah, blood moon birth.

I really wanted to be pregnant. I used to take balls and put them under my shirt. And I was like, oh, cool, fun. And that kind of, I wanted to be a mother that really stayed with me. But as I've gotten older, I think that seeing some things and knowing my body, it's such a personal thing, right? Understanding my body, my relationship to my body, I get more and more hesitant around pregnancy, but at the same,

for me, but at the same time, I also understand that the female body is incredible and built to birth. Like every woman can do it. And I know that as well. You know, our bodies are amazing. So strong. What was the tipping point for you? Cause you said, yeah, you used to walk around with a ball underneath your shirt and you're like,

I want to be pregnant. Was it a certain birth that you witnessed as a doula or was it a certain moment as a teenager where you realized, oh, this is a lot more than I expected it to be? Well, okay, just to clarify, I was like five years old doing the belly. I was in like 17. Yeah, it's just like my mom got pregnant around that time when I was five and then I wanted to do it too, you know, like little girl with her doll situation. But I think that my brain, the way that I work is people romanticize a lot of things in life that I find really difficult.

And I think that as beautiful and as amazing as having children is, it's also really difficult and it really can change your life and pregnancy. People don't talk about that enough, I think, how hard it can be and how okay it also is to be pregnant and not enjoy the process and it's also okay to have kids or and not love every moment of it and it's also okay to be in a position where you're like, I don't know if I want kids, and maybe I do want kids, and go back and forth and regret each decision, you know, as it is. Like I talked to someone once who said,

I knew that if I didn't have kids, I'd regret it. But I also regret having kids every day. But I adore my children, but I struggle with the fact that I can't just be free in this world and live how I used to live. And I think that those are really honest conversations that don't make anyone bad, and I wish that more people had them.

So for me, to answer your question, there wasn't a specific moment per se. The first birth I did attend was extremely traumatic for that person, and I was like, holy shit, that looks intense. Like having to. Yeah, I mean, but this baby like wasn't coming out and it was, you know, we have to suction this baby out of you. And I mean, the mother tore significantly.

There are horror stories around this. But again, it's like. That wouldn't deter me, nor would I want it to deter anyone from having a child. That is one reality, but everyone's survived and everyone's well and people get through with, they get through what they can get through, you know? So I don't know if I really answered your question or I just talked for a really long time, but.

I would go back to it. I think when she realized how she works and her body works, then she realized that probably birthing a child is not for her. She grew into her own body, she grew into her choices and how she wants to represent herself in the world. And I think that's when it kind of clicked for her. And also caring, like yeah, knowing how I relate to my body, I don't know if having that many bodily changes would be good for my mental health. I just don't, I don't know. And I'm not saying no, totally.

I'm just saying, I don't know, but I'm also 37 now. Times the wasted. Listen, there's people out here having babies at 62. Let's go. I feel like Raven will get pregnant at 52. Let's go. She'll look at me, she's like, I am Janet Jackson. Let's do this. I am the brat, Let's go. And she'll look at me. She's like, I am Janet Jackson. Let's do this.

The uterus is ready. Let's go. Yeah. Yeah. The uterus is ready. No, uterus. What's her uterus? You sound like Tiffany.

Crazy. Wait, you said uterus is ready? Yeah. I was like, yeah. Is it that the uterus is ready? No, uterus is ready. You guys get this right, Abby, because uterus is funny. What did she say?

She thought you said universe. But I was like, she needs to hear you correctly because you're saying uterus is way more funny than universe, stop it. Okay, it's funny you say that though, because I've heard of women freezing their eggs because people are having babies later and later in life for financial reasons or just personal reasons, whatever.

And you mentioned surrogacy earlier, would that ever be something you'd consider as maybe freezing an egg? And then maybe when you are 52, you have the baby, but it's not you, it's a surrogate. Has that ever been an idea that you guys have had? Yeah, most definitely. That has been an idea and I think we always go back to the conversation of that requires a lot of hormones to be placed in our body and that's a little scary for me.

I've definitely fluctuated with weight my whole entire life and my own personal ideas about health and what I'm okay with putting in my body and what I'm not. And it's scary. Just plain and simple is scary, you know what I mean? And I'm also kind of the believer in, you know, to say this correctly, it's like, don't over-exhaust your options. There could be someone in adoption that's perfect for you

and that route is easier. And I do believe that the quickest route to happiness is a straight path. There's not 17 turns and people are like, no it's the journey. I'm like, I like an easy HOV lane. You know what I mean? I'm not trying to take 17 turns to get to where I need to. Maybe the universe is telling me to stop and do something a little bit easier. So again, I answer like all the thoughts have happened. And at every point, it's like what makes us happy? Because we have to be happy enough for that child when that child comes into the world, when that soul comes into the world. And our philosophy in life is also

one of acceptance versus resistance. So really, everything that has happened for Raven and I on the uptrack, meaning like getting married, buying homes, starting a business, like it was easy, it was seamless. There was no, there of course we have our moments, right? We're human, but the really big things, they just fell into place organically. We didn't have to force anything, and so I think that will be our, even with Quinn, it

was just like Raven saw him, found him, it was easy. I believe that that's what our life will be when it comes to children as well. And if we want something and it seems a little bit farther away, we're still going to work towards that goal, but just not like jam it in because it might not be ready. It might not be ripe enough to pick.

We have some friends that adopted a sweet baby girl and just seeing their family flourish as this, you know, as they brought this, you know, little girl in their family, I don't know, it's really sweet. So I love that adoption is also something you guys are considering because it's a beautiful, beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing. Ultimately, I think the soul picks the parents at the end of the day, you know, and some souls come through the body and it's like, I don't think you're really a part of my soul group. You know what I mean?

This child is crazy. This child is crazy. And then there's some people, you know, you can adopt them. Like, this was supposed to be my child from the very beginning. You never know what the universe gives you. And I do believe that, again, a soul picks, will pick us. He picked us.

That's why he's so good. He's sweet. Quinn. Okay, I have to talk about That's a Raven because that show, I was telling you that, I was like, marked my childhood in so many ways and it was so interesting going back and looking when it came out, was 2003?

Yeah. And I told my mom, I was like, I was shocked that it was only four seasons because I watched that show literally from when it came out to when I was like, I was shocked that it was only four seasons because I watched that show, literally, like from when it came out to when I was like in high school. I think they just played those. It went five seasons, it went 100 episodes.

Oh, five seasons, okay. You got 100 episodes and Disney at that time definitely knew how to elongate the lifespan of a show. Yeah. So I'm not surprised you watched it for that long. Oh my gosh, and it's probably, I will say this, I think it's the one show that I watch as a kid that I'd be like, I would still love that so much as an adult.

Like seriously, it's actually so funny. It's because you are so funny. Thank you. You're so good with comedy, and I feel like a lot of the humor in it is just, obviously it was made for children, but I feel like adults would find it equally funny like you're just such a physical comedian It's just so fun to watch but you I was talking about I was like I grew up saying oh snap cuz Raven said oh snap I grew up saying you nasty

I say you nasty to him all the time I was today I was today years old when I found out you nasty was from That's So Raven. That's funny. You nasty. So I'm sure you get asked a lot but did you grow up watching that story? Oh my gosh. Here we go again. Oh no. Okay let me try this time to say it correctly. No. Oh my God. I love her so much. Okay, this was a controversy, wasn't it? Oh, it was huge. It was huge. It was huge. I'm so sorry. No, it's okay.

Here's the deal. I've come to understand where I went wrong in the conversation. Raven is an icon. Raven is, especially in the black community, what Raven did for young girls and young boys who wanted that visibility, who were lacking at that time, is incredible. You're the first female, like black female to have a show named after you? Correct. Incredible.

Wow. Yeah. So her accomplishments have nothing to do with my not watching her show. And there was crossover there where people thought that because I didn't grow up watching it, that meant that reflected on something within our dynamic today or me today. I now since us being together have seen everything that Raven has been in almost. I mean, from a girl like Grace to college road trip to that's a Raven to Raven town. You didn't start with a girl like Grace. She's out here trying to come for y'all trolls right

now with a girl like Grace. She literally started with a prom on principle. How many of you have seen a mighty oak? Don't ever say that out loud, babes. I mean, there you go. I know her resume is my point through and through. I'm in it. And when we were talking earlier about people who just kind of pick and choose what they want to hear and run with, that is what happened. She took her earrings off just then.

Wait a minute. I have a couple people I have a few words for. But no, my point is that I understand where people were coming from me and thinking that I was disrespecting Raven, Simone and her talent and her impact, but that wasn't the intention. And I know Raven Simone, I also know Raven, my wife, and that's so Raven when we talk about that show is fantastic, it is so funny. It's amazing because she's an amazing physical comedian

and adults do like it, watching it as an older person, my sister was obsessed with it, so it was on in my house. My sister's five years younger than me. Also, that's the other thing, it came out in 2003, I can't do mental math for shit, but I'm 37. I don't know how. We were on the same age. And I will be honest, I wasn't watching the network

that I was on at that age. I was watching other things. Or whatever, I wasn't watching the Disney Channel. I would catch moments of it when my sister had it on. But now, having really sat down and watched the show as an adult, it's brilliant. It's unmatched. Like, Raven should have had all the Emmys by now and all the accolades and all the flowers

because that show is brilliant. They were all brilliant. Thanks, babe. Yeah, Orlando, Annalisa, like they were all, it was a really good show. And over this miscommunication, people were DMing you death threats? Is that true? Yeah, it went crazy. I'm so sorry. It went reallying you death threats. Is that true? Yeah, it went crazy. I'm so sorry.

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people means you most likely will get people who dislike you or want to troll you or have opinions about you. Once you're kind of a public person that is just what happens. And for the most part I am okay with it because most things are so distant. Like when people say things, people say really unhinged things, and they're so far from the truth, I can't let it penetrate. It doesn't penetrate.

But that scenario in particular was just growing and growing and growing to such a big scale that I was like, this feels different. And the only other time things will kind of ping me is when somebody actually says something that is true Like they pick up on an insecurity of mine or they say something that I'm like, okay I was struggling with that or I hear myself say something and I'm like I understand how somebody may have heard that even though That wasn't my intention. I've had to learn it's's hard. When you have these conversations, people don't give other people grace

and think that like, oh, something could have happened behind the scenes that I'm not aware of. They take you at such face value. And she's not the only one. I mean, I had my version of that when I was on the View learning. When you're on a live type of, what is it called? Prop, when you're on a live podcast or a live type of, what is it called?

Prop when you're on a live podcast or a live cast, like a television show or something like that, you do have to kind of learn the rules of how to explain your opinion without offending the world. And that's difficult because not everybody's gonna have the same opinion as you. And I think that any time you do receive any kind of fame or anything like that, your word choice is important. And the way you place your thoughts

in the minds of others is important. And it's a learning curve and hopefully, being that we're smart humans, we will continue to learn and be open to that education. Yeah, I remember seeing like a clip that I think people had mistook for something else that you were saying. I don't know if it was on The View or maybe it's the one I'm thinking of right now is the one when you were talking with Oprah. But I knew you were just trying to say that I am a human. I want to be called an American just as anybody else in America.

I can understand like in that moment with what you were saying. As a white guy, I don't have to say, I'm a German American. Abby doesn't have to go, I'm a, what's your family from? Where are you from, Abby? Yeah, Ireland.

Where's your family from? I'm an Irish American. Like no white people have to say that. Nobody white has to say anything like that. So I completely understood what you're trying to say, but I was so bummed that people saw an opportunity to, you know, run with that and try to make it some more than what it was. I take ownership in it as well because I didn't,

I didn't over explain it for people for that, for people to then fully understand what I said, because I have the problem of, I say what I said, figure it out. Like that's my problem because I think it's so obvious, but there has been a resurgence of that clip and a lot of people in the white community are like, we understand and the black community is also starting to understand

because I didn't say it right the first time. I mean, I said what I said and I meant it, but I didn't explain it the correct way and you just explained it. As a white person, you don't have to say that. Yeah. You know what I mean? You can say you're Irish, but you don't have to click on or check on a box on a piece of

paper, Irish American. Yeah. Oh, is that really what it is on it? Like when you're checking a piece of paper, it would come up as African American. It wouldn't just say like black or white. It'll say black African American. Okay. There's nothing that just says it.

We categorize ourselves here. Yeah. But when I go overseas, I'm an American. Interesting. No, that is so weird. They don't have African American overseas. I've never once had to check a box that says German American. Exactly.

It's never been a thing for me. No, it's white. Exactly. Even if you are from another country and you're a first generation or immediately here, you still just get to check Caucasian white. Exactly. Even if you are from another country and you're a first generation or immediately here, you still just get to check Caucasian white. Yeah. It's interesting. When my my ancestors' blood is in this soil, it's interesting. Yeah. How did you handle that? How did you handle that whole situation? Because I can't. Oh, I just associate. How did you handle that whole situation? Oh, I just associate.

I'm not joking. I just associated. I literally was like, I tried to clean it up again. I did a 23 and me and I messed up again. I did a Freudian slip and I was like, I said some crazy stuff and I got, you know, raked across the coals for that again. And then I just realized I'm going to keep my thoughts to myself. Like I've been doing that for so long before I got into that chair with Oprah that

you know me trying to explain who I was and my thoughts on life didn't really go over so well. And I just kind of stayed to myself but then I chose to be on the view and did it a whole bunch again. And I don't think anything's wrong with it. I just think again it's the muscle that I had to learn to do it correctly. You can speak your truth this is a free country you just have to be ready for explaining it or over explaining it and making sure that you say it at the right time. Yeah. You know I have a problem of saying things a little early where people are not on that wavelength yet but my mom woke up she was like everybody agrees was like, everybody agrees with you now, everybody agrees with you now, and I was like hilarious because

you know a white man said he understood. Oh wow, yeah that's crazy. What was your conversation with your family like in that time? Did they align with you and like, no they were mad, they were mad, they were mad that I said it that way, they in like, no where you're coming from. They were mad. They were mad that I said it that way. They were like, Raven, you didn't explain it properly. You know you're African American. I said I'm black and I'm an American and I have African descent in me

and if you test my blood, I also have American Indian. I also have a lot of other things and for me to be placed in one box and just call me that for the ease of others I think is unfair. And they were like, why didn't you say that? I said because I was nervous. Oprah sitting in front of me. I had an aliyah on, my hair was done, I'm nervous. And I was young, like I'm older now, I figured it out. I don't change my thoughts. It's so hard to get your words right.

I have always thought of myself as a pretty well spoken articulate person and I'll hear things back that I've said and I'm like Miranda, why did you say that? And I think when you understand how people, it's almost like you have to be extremely black and white or extraordinarily vague. You either have to be like, you can't leave any room for interpretation

on certain subjects or people will just attach meaning to either end of the spectrum and then you're just screwed if that wasn't your intention. I'm actually gonna come after you, babes. Come after me? Yeah, you could say a black, white or extremely vague and they'll still come after you because people are bored. And people just wanna come after you to come after you.

That is true. Yes, some people will, but. For your sanity, you need to be. Yeah, I understand what you're saying. Yeah, I understand what you're saying. Maybe to give you peace of mind, right? Like if you're asking me a point blank question and if I am just like, no, I don't wanna do that,

then I've completed my answer versus, I'm not sure. And then someone could be like, do you see how passive she was? Do you see how she like clearly wants to, but she couldn't say yes. Do you see how uncomfortable she was in that moment? It's like, it allows a lot more room for speculation. I guess is what I'm saying. I think you're right though. I think people are bored and I think we all get bored.

We all want to, you know, know what the tea is, know what the gossip is. And so oftentimes people create mountains out of molehills. They create something that used to not even exist just because it's it's something to talk about. It's something to gossip about. And I think especially like in your case, when you have this squeaky clean image and you're so funny and so likable and you're the Disney kid and then people can find a clip of you maybe not having the best word choice.

I think just with the nature of the world is and how people want to get their five seconds of fame, they're going to be like, oh, I can't believe this is what was said. Oh my gosh. Even though, you know, like we just discussed, we, we completely know what your intentions were and what you were actually saying. And then they, I was always told that they build you up to break you down. When you're a celebrity in this industry, no matter what kind of fame you have, people will root for you all the way to the top and they'll root for you all the way to the bottom.

We love it, we love to hate it. It's just the nature of the industry when you put yourself in front of the camera and allow people to connect to you. I always say too, there's like a difference, right? Tom Cruise, huge star. Huge, right? Angelina Jolie, wow. Huge.

Denzel Washington, wow. Sorry. And then, wow. Denzel Washington, wow. Sorry. And then, wow. Wow. Denzel? What I'm saying, Denzel, you ain't got nothing.

And they just like Denzel. And that. But then you have celebrities on television. Ray Romano, Seinfeld. And it's like cool. But because they're in your television on a small screen over and over and over and over again, you feel like you know them in a different way.

Because they're in your house. You see them every week, they're telling a family story. There's a connection compared to, you're on this big screen, you're larger than life. I can't really touch that. Oh my goodness, I'm gonna cry compared to somebody you watch every single week, maybe two or four times a week. And it's a different kind of celebrity,

it's a more, you're my sister, come on have some food. Yeah, hang out on the couch. Exactly, you don't know me, man. You know what I mean? So it's a different kind of thing. Totally. I bring that up for when you say the wrong thing or you have your words differently, they take it worse.

More personal maybe. It's more personal, thank you. It's also, it's like, because Angelina Jolie and Tom Cruise and Denzel, they've all had their fair share of press, right? But it's from a place of people speculating. It's almost like a massive rumor mill. People never really touch those things. It's almost like a massive rumor mill.

People never really touch those things. It's not like Tom Cruise said something crazy and therefore people are like, can you believe he said that? It's like we are thinking that Tom Cruise is doing this behind closed doors. And we think. Yeah.

And so those people don't even have to touch the rumors. It's very different when you also are putting yourself out there on a view or something like that or an interview. Or if you're in the people's eyes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well that's because they feel that. Yeah, they feel that connection.

Like you're saying that super connection. But more, like you being on television, like you said in people's living rooms, two to four times a week, like I remember growing up how the show That's So Raven was obviously hilarious, but you guys did touch on some deep topics. Yeah.

Memorable episodes I remember now, well in my 20s, like about body image and race, those things. I was curious, like did you have any type of influence when it comes to script writing and stuff like that when it came to that process not on that So Raven know the people that were involved were involved with my team at the time and so to Connect that bridge. I think my team was a part of it mostly I did get producer credit on the last season Oh, but I was so busy with all of the antics and things that I wasn't able to actually

learn the process of producing like I wanted to. That only happened when I got to Raven's home, when I really started to learn producing. Even then, I tend to stay out of the writer's room. It's a cherished space. It is a different world. That's not my world. I am visual. I love directing, I love organizing people in a space and making it look natural.

I love taking the writer's words and bringing it to life. So that's the kind of producer, director I am. Yeah, very cool. It's really cool how you were able to totally make that message come to life in a way that was digestible to children. It has such a profound impact. I can say that from a personal experience. What is it like to carry that type of... So many people come to you and say, you're an

icon. You marked my childhood. that type of, like so many people come to you say like you're an icon, like you marked my childhood. Like how do you process that or like what does that mean to you? I kind of want to say something before I answer the question because you talked about how that's so raving touched on a lot of different topics that are very heavy and one of my favorite Disney quotes is a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down And I think that's the beautiful thing about comedy. Yeah, you really go back in the history of comedy one of the biggest spoons of medicine that we took with sugar Not really sugar. It was actually kind of sour, but it was

anyway candy-coated um all in the family had a very deep episode about and had a very deep episode about and You had that moment you sat in it and then when you came back you were laughing and to be able to be a part of a medium that can touch on serious topics and Then also have brevity brevity with it and bring it back and forth that to me that's closer to life than a full drama You know what I mean? A full, life isn't sometimes, depending on where you are in your mental health state, but most of the times,

throughout the day, you're laughing, you're crying, you're angry, you're sad, you're laughing, it's a rotated thing, so that's comedy. The question you asked is how I dealt with it? I guess like what does that mean to you? Oh, that's awesome. She disassociates. I disassociate. Yeah, I do I do It's cool. Yeah, I'm able to be a part of people's lives in such a you know important part of times an important time Words. Thank you an important time frame of your life that I'm like honored

Thanks, cuz I had that from other people like Alex Mack and saved by the bell and Family matters like I have that too. That's what I was watching you guys Exactly and then the L word and sex in the city. Yeah anyway, I'll work way later So I tend to disassociate I say thank you but while I was filming it and while I was doing it I kind of just do my job. It's hard work. Yeah I just do my job. Yeah and you've done it since you were so little. 16 months old. Wow 16 what was your first gig at 16 months? I was a model and I did commercials I was in the Sears catalog you guys go find that

Can you find it? I have a picture of one of my Right now I know he's 15 months about to be 16 months and he looks like a model he's a really cute kid I love it, I'm gonna look up, I think, I have one picture of my first modeling gig. It's so cute though. That's my first modeling pic. What? So much hair. Yeah. 16 months?

Oh, that one was my modeling pic, so I was probably like maybe one and. And you can totally tell it's you. It's the same face. I was a part maybe one and. And you can totally tell it to you. It's the same face. I was a part of the thing too about people who feel so connected to Raven is that Raven, her face hasn't changed. Like she looks exactly the same.

Thank you to June's Journey for sponsoring this portion of today's podcast. Wait, you've been playing June's Journey for a while, haven't you? It's been over a year that I've played June's Journey. Yeah. You guys have some history. You and June have your history together. Me and June, we go way back. Way back. Something I talk about a lot is wanting to restrict the use of social media apps on my phone. And the way I've been able to do that is because it's still a habit to grab my phone and want to turn it on and do something, but trying to rework that into a more healthy, productive, less

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Honey, oh my god. See you guys. I just want to make a baby with you. I literally saw like you need Same smile you can tell You guys like, he's just my little cuddle buddy. I just hold him and he just wraps his arms around me. And right now our son is learning to say words, they both are, but our one year old is learning his first words and he just learned bye. So he just, to everybody right now just waves and says bye, bye, bye. Gotta get that recorded. So sweet. Oh my right now just waves and says bye.

I love it. Gotta get that recorded. So sweet. Oh my gosh. Keep it, keep it. Do you guys keep your kids out of the public eye or what's? We don't show their faces on social media and we did that just because we wanted to be extra safe, extra protective. We don't want to get anywhere close to the line.

We want to be extra safe, extra protective. We don't wanna get anywhere close to the line. We wanna be really careful. And we saw our content at one time moving into the family vlog sort of genre. And we just wanted to be mindful of our kids' privacy and be mindful of, we want them to have good childhoods. So- People can be mean to me, they can be mean to my kids. And that's where I'm like, that's, I can't.

Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, people being mean to your kid, I cannot think of anything worse. Oh my gosh. You would see a violence in me that it would make me so hard to deal with. I think you should. But yeah, I think it's different being like social media

where it's like our personal lives, whereas like modeling and acting, there's another, like we're talking about layers, there's another layer. This is like stripping back another layer almost where, yeah. I heard this little bit on a podcast the other day and I thought this was interesting.

Someone said, he's a psychiatrist, and he said, "'If your children don't desire fame, "'you know that you've done a good job parenting them.'" And the person said, "'Okay, why?' "'And he said, "'Because if a young child is desiring fame what they're seeking actually is external validation but if a child is not seeking fame that means they've learned how to validate themselves and therefore they don't need anything external because internally they have that system and I was like wow damn that is such because just when you look at it

raising a child that knows how to validate themselves and feel comfortable in their skin and doesn't need the opinion of anyone outside of them to sway them in either direction is the strongest human one can form because then they can go out in the world and thrive and learn and make mistakes and blah blah blah but I was, that's super interesting. Yeah, it's like. I thought about my own self and blah, blah, blah. Truthfully, you're like, I need to learn.

Yeah. But it's like, it's like they can tell themselves I am enough. Exactly. That's really cool. I have never heard that before. And you just blew my brain up. Like that is correct.

You said it so well too. Yeah. Thank you. I thought you were the psychiatrist right there for a second. Sometimes I can sleep well. Yeah. No you. I thought you were the psychiatrist right there for a second. Yeah. No, I think maybe that is a reason what, like maybe that is a driving force behind why some

people work so hard because they just don't feel like they're good enough. And it's like hearing you're awesome, you're good, all this, like maybe that fills them up in that way and they really just need to find a healthier way to know deep down they're enough and they don't need anybody else to tell them they're enough. 100%. And you hear a lot of people who are famous talk about being in a room of 100 people

and still feeling so lonely and you don't have to be famous to feel that way. But the question then becomes what is going on with you internally when you have all these people praising you or whatnot that you still feel this isolation or you still feel like you're not good enough or you haven't attained enough or blah blah blah. That's totally a reflection of relationship with self. That's nothing to do with the external world. So yeah. Ravens, you feel enough? Sorry if that's too- Oh, I don't feel at all.

Yeah. That's interesting. Raven, do you feel enough? Sorry if that's too- Oh, I don't feel at all. I'm dead inside. Don't say terrible things like that. That's going to become a sound bite. I'll bring that out in a second.

Oh no. I think you should ask- Raven Simone is dead inside and not African-American. Oh God. I just blew up the entire world again. Oh no. I think you should ask her that because I think it's better to get the perspective

from an outside situation. The question is, does Raven feel? Feel enough. Feel enough in, okay. Like I'm very. Oh no, just like feel, feel. Do I need validation from others? No, as being raised in fame, like in the public eye.

So I think that this is something interesting about Raven. Raven, I believe, had she not been positioned in the world of fame or celebrity or acting, whatever, she probably wouldn't have chosen it. I think that Raven is a very secure person, a person who is very confident, a person who does not seek external validation, which is why when people get to know her, they're like, wow, you're so grounded.

You're so cool, you're so easy, because she doesn't seek fame. She doesn't want to be a celebrity. Raven has found peace in her work, and she's accepted what she does, but I think that being a famous person for her is so peripheral to what she actually does, and now she's like, I'm a director,

and she has more ownership of her career. She's choosing her lane, but she's not somebody who is impacted by the external in a way that I think a lot of people are in her industry. I think that a lot of actors would sit before you and say, I'm terribly insecure. And you're like, yeah, no shit. That's part of why you're doing this. Raven I think is in it because she was put in it and has made

the best of it. That's high praise. Yeah thanks babe. That's really cool. She has better words than me. That's really cool. That's cool you find joy in the whole creative process not just being on camera but the behind the scenes stuff because that just shows the true mark of a creative. Passion. And the passion for it. Thank you. It took a while. It took a while to get there for sure, because when you are placed in the position that I was in,

there's multiple thought processes because it's inevitable to have them, meaning you have a show that did so well, then you go onto movies and you do music, and that's what I think, especially as a young person, I'm supposed to be doing. And then when you wake up and you're like, I need something else and I have everything. That doesn't make sense when you have everything and you still need stuff. And I was able to go to art school, I have a degree in art, and when we got married,

you know, I shed all my pain. And then she was like, well, what do you want to do? And I was like, I think this is what I, this, all the skills that I learned up until this age, how do I utilize that in this industry, but in a different way. And that is the creative side that is mentoring, that is helping others that are young or old find their character and film it appropriately. It feels better in that area. I don't have to wear a girdle.

I don't have to put on all my makeup. I don't have to put on heels anymore like I can be myself. Yeah, I heard you talking about that. We're actually the same height. Oh, hi. I did my research at five. High five five. I like it.

How you doing five five? Wait, you're five five? I did. It's great up here. It's great up here. It's great up here, right? I'm like, are you doing five five? Wait, you're five five? I am. It's great up here. It's great up here. It's great up here, right? And you don't have a happy baby.

I was like, we're at the same height. You got me right there, Raven. He's like, no she's not. For anyone who's confused, Raven just tricked us. Abby's five two, okay. Matt, what's it like being married to these tall women, right? Isn't it crazy?

It's great, right? Like does your neck hurt all the time? He's intimidated daily. Yeah, exactly. I bet. I know that. You guys are these Amazonian women that we're married to. When we stand in a mirror, I'm like,

oh my gosh, my foot taller than you. Literally yesterday on the camera, he was like, oh my gosh. I was like. That's what I say too, and then I get pushed. See, I don't even feel short. I don't push forward, I just push down a little bit. It's like down here. Sorry Liz.

Oh, there we go, babes. That's better. You don't need a decap. Wait, actually, legitimate question in our relationship, like, Abby likes to be pampered and she likes me to plan the date night into, you know, be like, hey, surprise babe, we're going on this trip. Who is that person in your relationship? Who's the one who's like planning the date night or or actually who proposed to who? That's maybe the question that I'm getting at. That's who you want to lead with? Yeah. The proposal? Okay, go. I proposed to her. Ah. I proposed to her and then date night is funny and interesting. Wait, you have to tell our proposal story. He didn't ask that question. He asked that.

He wants to know. Oh, babes, you want to tell me about me? You start it off, I'll chime in. Okay, cool. So, I make the decision, I want to marry her, right? So I get a ring. It's not a huge expensive ring. That one? No, it's not that one. That's the seventh one. Looks expensive.

Looks pretty expensive to me. Can we see it? Can we see the ring? We had ring journeys. Oh, that is stunning. Beautiful. Oh my gosh. Not the first one. That's the seventh?

Yeah, that's the seventh one. This was the third. You're being serious. Death and... No, no, no. We'll tell you guys... No, no, no. You guys should remember it was COVID.

Her face is like... No, you have to remember it was COVID and... No, no, no. You have to remember it was COVID. Her face is like... No, you have to remember it was COVID and... Her face is like... No, you have to remember it was COVID and... No, you have to. Wait, what? We'll tell you guys, no, no, no. You guys remember it was COVID. Yeah. You have to remember. Her face is like.

No, you have to remember it was COVID and the ring that Raven proposed to me with was always like, this is a placeholder if you will and then we'll go find something. Oh, okay. And then I worked with a few different jewelers and I had really bad jeweler luck. We had three rings made

and every single one essentially broke in a different way. It was very bizarre, but I think that time of everyone's life was weird. And then when we were actually getting married, the thing that I put on our hand was actually something from an antique shop. So like, oh my God.

Yeah, I was like, we have to get bands. And it's so funny, because that photo of those rings is the one that like People Magazine published. So it got like pushed around. It literally cost me $20 like each one. We went to like a flea market. Like Raven is cheap. Yeah.

Like it's about love. It's not about the money. Exactly, exactly. We went to a flea market, found a matching pair and it was so cheap. It was the type that had like the hole in the back so you could pinch it to fit your finger. You guys know what I'm talking about?

Wait, for the wedding? Yeah, for the wedding. Like it literally, like I was- It's cool with you guys. It worked, you guys. It worked. We should have just used tin foil for fuck's sake. That would have been shaker. Your potatoes would have suffered.

I don't care. Okay. Anyway, the proposal. Anyway, the next one is this proposal. So I actually order a beautiful little, little something from David, David Yermen. Like something, something. It's baby pink. It's so cute. And I... Did you say mm-hmm? Like, yeah, you did. It was cute. And I, did you say mm-hmm?

Like yeah, you did, it was cute. It was cute and pink and I think it was. Too big. No, it wasn't too big. I'm trying to remember what the stone was. Yeah, it was a stone. I know, I was trying to remember what the stone was, which is why I said mm-hmm.

So. Don't come for me, everyone. I drive up to my favorite place in California, which is like it over in Los Virginas, which if you know what that is, it's like over by Malibu. We're up on the top of a mountain The Pueyma Road. I've been going there since I was younger. I was like, this is my spot. Super windy road. Super windy road. Gorgeous However, the day that I choose to do this is the most overcast you could possibly imagine So you're not seeing all as far as the eye can see. I don't care. I get up there. I

dress Which means I'm in labels at the time. She's a little bit of a hypebeast. She's like aw. I was labeled out. I didn't. I was like frizzy haired, I have really curly hair, it was like totally frizzy. I was wearing one of her oversized sweaters and a pair of like, I don't know, random jeans, whatever. And so I get home. You weren't expecting it.

No. That's the real question. Were you expecting it? A little bit. Oh. Like I felt something coming, but I didn't know. Yeah, I kinda, I. Like you expected it in the car? Yeah.

Anyway. So the truth comes out. So mad right now. We'll talk about this later. So mad. And back to my seat. Did you guys see the disappointment in her face? Anyway.

Anyway. So I stand there and you can start. You can start the rest of the combo. So Raven stands before me and she looks at me and she goes, I'm not gonna kneel cause I'm in Gucci. And I was like, what? And then she basically goes, like I wish I could remember it closer to this.

But the gist of it was this. Hey, Miranda, I think that you're pretty great. And I think that we should get married and just like do this. Are you in or are you out? And then like she shows me a ring. I'll explain why later. She shows me a ring. And I swear why later. She shows me a ring and I swear to God I was like yes, of course and I look down at the ring and as I when I look up she's gone

And I was like what the hell like where did she not expect it? No and Reagan is running across This two-car highway where it's like people are whipping the ground. She's running across She runs to the other side of the road and then like throws her hands up although like Jesus Christ and I look at her and I'm like did this really I kind of moment this is I was like but that's not what's coming so I don't even matter now okay so here's what happened. It was hilarious. It was so quintessentially us. You're welcome. Thank you to Lumi for sponsoring this portion

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I thought my life was going to be work. 16 months old, that's what I know. You know what I mean? It's like I knew how to act before I knew how to walk. So I knew how to work before I knew how to love in that kind of sense. So I'm here, I'm having a full-on panic attack and I think and I dissociate and I think that I'm like not alive. So I'm like, let me run across the street because my brain goes, if this is real, everything's going to be okay. if this is real, everything's gonna be okay. Wow.

And so it was, and here I am. I'm writing a book. That's crazy. I'm writing a book about my life. You're writing a book. I am, I'm writing a book. There's a lot of things. A memoir.

That's interesting in this brain of mine. You said it the other day though, in a way that I thought was really interesting, which was you could walk down the aisle on a set, you could do all of those actions and make believe, but the reality of something happening to you was just so foreign, and you almost need to jolt yourself back in a way.

And I was like, that makes sense, that makes sense. Because for someone like me, I was like, that just felt like, felt like, I don't even. Someone's in Gucci and running away after. It felt like the Tasmanian devil rushed in and then rushed back out, or the road runner. I was just left in a little cloud of dust and I guess we're planning a wedding, which we did.

And it was bad too because we're on the top of the mountain. I wanted her to see the view and it was all cloudy and I was like, this is just, this is crazy. It was perfect, I wouldn't have changed. Wow. I've never heard. And so you getting to the other side with your arms over like I'm live this is happening. We have the picture still of her literally across. Oh my goodness. Another great. Wow. But not. That's actually the craziest proposal story I've ever heard. I'll be honest with you. Sorry what are you saying? Honestly though, honestly. Sorry, what were you saying?

You're honestly though, honestly. Okay, my question is you didn't kneel for the proposal. Was that the plan or did you just get so panicky that you forgot to kneel and ran away? No, I was in Gucci's. And it was dirt. It's expensive. But also it's like, it's that word. Obviously you're wearing Gucci, but it's also that like once in a lifetime, like you only propose once, you know?

So. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Prioritize. Uh. I'm gonna be with her for the rest of the night. We good. Yeah, yeah. She understands.

She understands what's going on. No, no, no, I do understand that I miss that, like quintessential moment of on the knee and looking up, but I, um, it but I was going through something. Yeah. And she understands that. And we're not, there are some people I think who are like very sentimental in that way

and very intentional, which I think is beautiful. Raven and I match each other in the fact that we both see how there could be other versions, but we're also very okay with it just being us and we'll laugh about certain things and we're kind of like it's not that precious because we even talked about that with our wedding we know we had a little COVID wedding in a front yard our families weren't there we had you know a handful of friends and it was perfect but I sometimes am like damn like what I'm watching love is blind like I wish I could try and address like that I don't know what damn, like when I'm watching Love is Blind, I'm like, I wish

I could try on a dress like that. I don't know what that feels like, you know? But then when we were talking about what she'd wear, I'm like, do you want a dress? She's like, no, I don't want to wear a dress. So I got her a onesie jumpsuit. She didn't really have anything. Well, that was a not a onesie jumpsuit. That's the same thing.

It was Gucci. It was Gucci. Just for our wedding date. But when I'm, what? So it could be, that's my reciprocate. You know what I mean? But I wanna have the party. Now she has a Gucci too, can't get on it.

There you go, I can't get on it either. I wanna have. I wanna have a party too. Yeah. And I can always re-propose. With all our friends. You know what I mean? With the real ring.

Oh yeah. Oh we could always get another ring too. Anniversary, do a full out wedding for your anniversary. Yeah we could. Yeah, we could. And I was thinking, you know, next year is five years. That's a good number. Maybe we have our party then and I can wear three different dresses.

Yeah. Are you mad that you didn't get like a big 30 rose basket and like flowers and lights for your proposal? Like one of those proposals that you see on TikTok. One of those with like a band playing. Like a gondola maybe. Like what Sean White just did for Nina Dobra. Do you wish that you had that for me?

I don't think about it that much because I think that that type of thought process in general is setting yourself up for failure because then you're constantly comparing and then you're going to always feel disappointed in your life. So I did not have any preconceived idea around a proposal as a little girl or anything. You know, it's not like, that's going to be amazing. The only thing I ever cared about with getting married was the ring. That was all I cared about with getting married was the ring.

All I cared about, which has proven it. Seven. Yeah. All seven of them. Seven rings. Seven lucky rings. But no, babe. I'm not.

It's precious because it's your story. Yeah. I love it. It's priceless too because it's just like that's what it was meant to be. I want to talk a little bit more about the height thing too for us five, six, five, five, five, five, six, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, Balenciaga. No. It's Croc and Balenciaga. It's Croc and Balenciaga and Dodger socks. Also, we're actually Croc.

Yeah. No way. Croc and Balenciaga did a collab. OK. She wore them to the airport one. And literally, oh, sorry. She wore them. We'll beep it out.

She wore them to the airport one. And when I tell you, just for anyone who maybe isn't watching but just listening, Raven is wearing 20 pound plastic. Can I? Wait, wait, let's hold, wait. This is the only time I'll ever deal with a Balenciaga. Wow. I've never held something that's Balenciaga.

Wow, this is like, that's probably five pounds. Yeah, I know. So she's walking through the airport and we're walking to our gate and I look, I keep looking behind Yeah, I know so she's walking through the airport and We're walking to our gate and I look but I keep looking behind me I keep looking behind me and Raven is walking holding like three bags these and then she yells across the airport I mean she goes I'm not on sport mode anymore I'm surprised those can make it through TSA, because you could fit a little bit.

Oh my god. They don't. They don't make it through TSA. She beeps and has to get them removed, and then she gets body searched. Listen, you guys. Listen. It's hilarious.

Listen. But it's perfect, because it's our story of getting to the airport. In an interview, I heard you talk about how Disney wanted you to wear heels a lot. So that was yes and no. It was, there was a understanding that if you're short and you wear heels, it thins you out.

Oh wow. Cause if you look taller, the proportions work out. So behind the scenes, my team and I'm sure conversations always led to me wearing heels, which is one of the funny things that happens on TikTok where Galleria from the Cheetah Girls is the only one strutting down all of the country of Spain in heels while all the other girls are in sneakers.

That was the biggest one. And when you look at that, so Raven, every single outfit had on heels. I would be wearing heels and pajamas sometimes, just because it makes you look thinner. Wow. That's tough, because you're a teenager at that point, and that's already an extremely hard time,

where there's a disconnect between your body and your self image, and so I cannot even imagine so many eyes on you in that way. And the people advising you and leading you having conversations like that, that must be really tough. What do you wish your team would have said regarding like your weight and image to you that they didn't say? I wish they wouldn't,

I actually don't wish they said anything. I wish they would just not said anything. Mm-hmm. Period. Yeah, they would just assume that you are enough as is and that was a different time period. And it was, early 2000s. Yeah, nobody was my size at that time. And knowing what I did.

Knowing what you know, living the experience that you've had, I mean, you said earlier that you learned how to act before you could even walk. What's your take on children in the industry? Would that be something that you'd be excited for your child to do, or would you warn your child to not act? There's two answers to that. If my child wants to act, I will say, how old are you?

Are you under the age of 16? Please wait a little bit. Let's take you to some classes. Let's get you ready for the fame. Let's slowly indoctrinate you into what that looks like so you can build thick skin. At 18, I will help you find it, but you're not gonna be too much of a nepo.

You don't have to do this on your own kind of situation, but I will make sure that I support you all day. If our child showed immense talent in something at a young age, we would nurture that, but not in a exploitive way. And then the other answer is, I want my kid to be in something where I can get a discount. Like, I'm gonna need you to be in politics,

I'm gonna need you to be a lawyer, I'm gonna need you to own like some grocery stores. A flight attendant. A flight attendant. Gucci, Gucci, I need a discount, boo. It's a free Gucci. I got the acting on Lockya. Mama's a producer.

We'll go do something else so we can all be like successful together. It totally got everything for us. You know what? I love that. Self-sustaining. This family does everything. So that's kind of where I am.

That's awesome. I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. This was really fun. Thank you for your vulnerability and for your wisdom and the laughs. That's kind of where I am. I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Thank you for your vulnerability and for your wisdom and the laughs. Thank you guys. Yeah, we laughed a lot today. This is a blast.

Thank you guys.