The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby - Secret Lives of Mormon Wives Orange County w/ Madison & Kyler Fisher

Episode Date: May 13, 2026

This episode is sponsored by Goodwipes, Hiya Health, Shopify, and Tumble Living. Goodwipes: Grab the new Peaches & Cream or any other goodwipes item at Walmart or Walmart.com, buy any two packs, text your receipt, and get reimbursed for one of them—details at https://goodwipes.com/UNPLANNED. Hiya Health: Receive 50% off your first order of Hiya's best selling children's vitamin at https://hiyahealth.com/UNPLANNED . This deal is not available on their regular website. Shopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial today at https://shopify.com/unplanned Tumble Living Inc: Get 10% off plus free shipping on machine washable rugs at https://tumbleliving.com/UNPLANNED #Tumble #ad This week on Unplanned, we sit down with Madison and Kyler Fisher from the Fish Fam to talk about joining The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, the pressure of raising 5 kids online, and what scares them most about entering the reality TV world. Madison's IG: @madisonbontempo Kyler's IG: @kylerstevenfisher Follow The Unplanned Podcast: https://www.instagram.com/unplanned__podcast/ https://www.tiktok.com/@unplanned_podcast Listen to the pod on Spotify/ Apple Podcasts: https://open.spotify.com/show/1ToDA4ufQuWuEgMq07zN6t https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-unplanned-podcast/id1669604504 Follow Matt & Abby: Abby's Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/abbyelizabethoward/ Matt's Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/_matt_howard_/ TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@matt_and_abby Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/mattandabb YouTube | https://www.youtube.com/@MattandAbby Chapters: 01:28 - Secret Lives of Mormon Wives OC 06:09 - LDS 14:36 - Baby blessings 20:20 - ad break 21:31 - filming a reality tv show in your home 26:21 - swinging scandal 32:32 - How does your family feel? 34:44 - $$ 37:20 - ad break 38:49 - Raising 5 kids 43:57 - Living in Utah 46:44 - Finding purpose 55:20 - ad break 01:01:16 - Who's more likely 01:09:50 - ad break #unplannedpodcast #mattandabby Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Please welcome the new edition of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, Orange County, Madison and Kyler. Wow. Madison and Kyler Fisher are some of the internet's most famous family vloggers, sharing everything from the births of their five children to collabs with celebrities like Jojo Siwa and Jake Paul. They were filmed us for five years and you don't know what footage they're going to use and then they'll take kind of like the worst moment and then they'll add like this ominous vibe to it.

After being featured on the Hulu documentary, Born to Be Viral, Madison and her family were invited to join the new cast of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, Orange County. They can make me the villain. You never know. Unless it's Kyler. People find her ways to make me look like a scumback. I do not like fake people. Are you saying that I'm fake? Hey, before we jump in today's episode, I wanted to mention that 65.3% of you are not subscribed to the show. I know. That was very shocking to me as well. I'm sure you guys are shocked hearing that.

So if you're one of the 65.3% that is not subscribed. subscribed and listens and supports this show, please just take two seconds to just tap that subscribe button. It's a free way that you can support our show. And if you subscribe, what we'll do on our end is do the best we can to make the best show possible for you. We're going to bring on the guests that you guys want us to interview. We'll talk about the parenting, marriage, and relationship topics that are interesting and applicable to you guys. Thank you so much for supporting our show. Thank you. If you're one of those people that wasn't subscribed and now you're subscribed, thank you so much. Let's get on with today's episode.

for that intro. Madison and her husband is what the show kind of like allows. I don't have a name. Wait, what do you mean by that? Wait, I don't have the husband's on very much on this one, I don't think. Really? They're not having the husband's on very much. You've been cut out of the show.

No, no, no, we're filming, but, but, you know, it's like. I think because the original one, they didn't really, everyone keeps saying like, we don't like dad talk. We don't like dad talk. I'm like, well. I told her word. I'm not doing dad talks. So don't worry. Why do people not like dad talk?

I don't know. I think it's like a, like, I think a majority of people that watch just want to follow the women. I don't know. I like seeing the dads on there. It's kind of like showing up to a girl hang and there's a bunch of dudes there. Yes. Who brought their husband. So maybe with this new one, they're trying to listen to the audience and maybe like not let the dads on very much.

But I think they should be in part of it because they're part of us. I feel like so far he's been in a couple of the scenes. But I do feel like majority of the scenes so far have been just the girls meeting up. I'm legit okay with it because the more. and more I'm on camera, the more opportunity I have to say something stupid and I am one of those guys. I say stupid stuff. I was going to ask you that. Are you worried about being like branded as a villain on the show? I don't think I'll be a villain. He has the person that could possibly maybe by something he says that's very truthful. So he speaks truth, very honest. So I feel like if they cut out

context, you know how because basically on reality shows they can take things and move things around. Well, they're trying to make it for an entertaining show. Yes. I think it's good to be truthful though. Yeah, sometimes a little too truthful, yes. So we'll see. They can't handle the truth. Maybe some of the-

Some of the girls won't be able to handle the truth. It'll be bad for them if I start speaking, so it's better if I don't. This is ominous. Wait, what? Yeah. Why do you say that? That seems like there's some, like, energy behind that. There's some energy for sure, but we're not going to talk about it.

So. People are like, okay, well. So are you guys worried about, yeah, relationships being ruined by being on a reality TV show because that's a lot of pressure. That's a lot of eyeballs on your life. Because you knew a lot of these girls before this all started. Yeah. No, four of us live down here in Orange County and we've all been friends for a long time.

I knew one of them for 15 years. One of them, we've been really good friends for last couple years and our kids dance together. And then I have this other girl I went to high school with. So I've known her. You know, Macy from the original show? So Macy's sister, McCall, is on this show with me. And I went to high school with Macy and Michael. And then my friend Ashley, who's on the show,

her and I got really close all year, our kids danced together. And then Chandler, I've known her for like 15 years. Oh, wow. Yes. And so then I kind of knew the other girls just through social media. Like Aspen, I've known her because she's had the YouTube channel for a lot of years. We followed each other. We both lived in Utah at one point.

We met up a couple times, not because we did. tried to but just because we ran into each other and there we've DM'd each other a lot about meeting up Sal I've known for we've been on trips together like influencer trips she's known her husband yeah we went on her husband together on the cruise we both have twins I never knew Avery and then didn't know Bobby but I knew of Bobby through her funny satire post and stuff she's hilarious having like 15 year long relationships with these women like does that make you nervous like entering into like a reality TV space with all the eyeballs and obviously given the controversy surrounding the original cast of like the secret lives of Mormon wives in Utah like

does that concern you at all or yes so I think that a lot of the girls in Utah I feel like some of them have stayed pretty close front like close friendship throughout all of things that have happened but a lot of them have had some falling out and I would hate that to happen with some of my friends out here I think for me I'm realizing that if you get really involved in drama and you make it your whole world then friendships can fall apart. What I like to do is I'm okay with speaking truth. If somebody's offending me, I'll stand up for myself. But I feel like if...

No, you won't. Yes, I will. She doesn't stand up for herself. I did on the first episode. Well, all right. Episode one has been completely filmed. So episode one was when I had to get, you know, have a hard conversation with a friend.

I'm not good at hard conversations because I just don't do that. Like, even with my own family members, my entire life. I've never even had conflict with myself. sisters before ever my whole life. But your own sisters. My own sisters ever. This was the first time this year that I've ever had to talk to my sister about something difficult.

Yeah. And it was the same month that I had to talk to my friend about something difficult because it's all connected with this thing that happened. I think there's probably people wondering what LDS means. Can you explain the term LDS to somebody that doesn't understand? Latter-day Saint. Yeah, Latter-day Saints. It's just what distinguishes us from other Christian faiths, I guess.

And is that because it's really wrong to say the church of Jesus Christ. Yeah, it's like the Church of Jesus Christ, Lauderday Saints. We have a lot of different names. In Spanish, it's crazy. People would call us Mormons. Can you imagine saying that whole time? Oh my gosh, that's crazy.

Wow. Wait, where did you serve your mission? Here. Oh, sit. He doesn't speak Spanish, but he just knows that one. Not in San Clemente in San Bernardino County. Okay. So all the way from Baker to Redlands to Claremont. So you guys were both raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Dissians

and are still active members. She said the entire name. We still go every Sunday. I teach the church class. You actually look like you could have served their mission. Yes. I know I'm not. Everybody thought we were Mormon.

He's a bicycle. When we moved to, we used to live on Oahu and everybody thought we were Mormon. Because we lived five minutes from the Lottier Temple. Yes. I feel like you guys just have this happy. You look like a return missionary. You know what I'm saying? We got the whole thing.

We got the whole thing. No, that's good. People got really confused when I started drinking coffee. I cuss a little. What is that? Well, I was drinking coffee. They were like, well, wait a minute. So I guess I feel like talking about the show and talking to it,

we have a lot of friends that are members of the church and active members. What we've come to understand is that the term Mormon is not really like, people within the church don't really like that term as much anymore. The church came out a few years ago and we're like, can we stop calling ourselves Mormon? Because people think that we worship Mormon, the prophet Mormon. But actually we don't. We actually worship Jesus Christ.

I think it's like a, I don't even know where it came from, to be honestly. I don't know if the church. Church kind of went along with it. or whatever. Because people started calling it because of the Book of Mormon or whatever. The reason our book is called the Book of Mormon is because he took all the old writings

from prophets back in the day and he put them all together. Okay, yeah, wait. We've had many people that are LES on our podcast, but I always get confused. So Mormon, how is Mormon, like the guy, Mormon, different than like Joseph Smith or Brigham Young?

Can you like explain those three different characters? Do you tell? Joseph and Brigham, they're all just prophets and different dispensations of times. They're not characters. I didn't want to be a, sorry, that probably came off as a fan. No, just so you know, we don't, no, I don't get offended by anything. See, and that's, and that's the LDS answer because you guys are also freaking nice. So friendly.

They're so kind. I don't get offended by one thing. I could like, I could like slap you'd be like, oh, it's okay. You didn't hurt my face. No, just just profits and different dispositions of time, just like the Bible. So like what's the difference between Moses and Noah? I don't know. Okay. So they're all profit. A thousand years.

Yeah, I don't know how many. Mormon is a prophet. Yeah. How do you feel then about the title of a show being a show being a secret lives of Mormon wives. If like, you're like, well, shouldn't this be LDS? That's the, lives of Latter-day Saints. That's the hook. That's the thumbnail. So I think that name became super popular on the last one. So if they're going to create a new show and change the name, people wouldn't think of it as part of that. You know, what they're doing is all the people

that already watched that one. They want that audience to watch this one. I think they're just like used, like they want to continue the popular name. So in your mind, you're like, it's not that deep. Yeah. Okay. We are pretty secretive over here, though. We got lots of secrets. Yeah, you guys secretive? Here's the thing. Super secretive. They won't know our secrets. In your community, how do they respond to you?

Because I know that like a lot of members of the church were critical of how Mormonism was presented on the original show. So how were- Wasn't presented? At all. I think a lot of- I wish they could have presented more. It's kind of like, you know, it's frustrating if, yeah, people who have never heard. heard of you before are like, oh yeah, it's this like group of swingers from Utah, you know?

Yes. No, at first when they came out with it, I'm like, oh, are people going to get offended by this? It's less of me being offended. I'm more worried about if it was going to be like, I wondered if it was going to be about swinging and about making the church look bad. But when I watched it, I was thinking they didn't really talk about the church ever. I think they had one episode where they did like a baby blessing or something, right? Yeah. At Zach's house or something. Okay. That was like the only thing I saw. I wanted on this show, I, I was thinking, come to our church with us. Let's go to an activity.

Oh, you know, I was thinking maybe they can follow us going to the temple one night or something. Oh, okay. Maybe they can show more about what we believe. So would you hope for this version of like the Secret Lives, O.C., to represent the church more authentically? That's what I'm hoping for, yes. And even though some of the girls aren't LDS,

I'm like, that's great too. It's good to have them being them and us showing what we believe in and we can explain to them what we believe, you know, a little bit more. They can tell their story why they left because people are all on different journeys that have either some, a lot of the people in the church maybe have left the church or maybe they're deciding if they want to go back to the church. So there's lots of different ways to be Mormon, right? And like some people maybe go once in a while.

Some people go every week. Some people, like I said, left. And so I think it's kind of cool to have different people on the show. And I'm hoping that I can show the way that I show up to church, you know, the way that. that I believe in the church. So I'm hoping to show more. Yeah. What does that look like for you guys?

Do you guys go to church every Sunday? We go every week. Is it multiple times a week or just once a week? We didn't go this week. Or the week before. Or the way before. Or the way before. What fun place did you guys go to?

What was it like a swap meet? I sounded like it's pretty secretive. Ooh. We're letting out all the secrets right now. No, you want, what was that thing? In Dana Point. Oh, into Redo Market. Yeah.

It's not that fun. Sometimes I just like to go to church. Sometimes I just like to take my kids on a hike and experience God that way, you know? I kind of have to go every week because I teach the kids. So if I don't go, then they don't have a teacher. What is your official title? I am the sunbeams teacher. So that's ages three and four year olds.

That's so sweet. Yes. Sunbeams. Sunbeams. I actually don't even know. They're little sunbeams. They're called my whole life. Do you guys sing like little songs?

Yes. I want the show to go to sun. Wait, what was the sunbeams song? I already forgot it now. Wait, do you do like, he's got the whole world. Stuff like that, yeah. To shine for him each day. That's sweet.

I want this show to come to church. I know. I wonder if the church will let them film. Come on, bro. I can baptize you today. They have to get permission. And with all the kids there and my parents. You can't show the kids.

They could show maybe me by myself setting up for the class. I don't think. In the classroom? I don't think the church will allow the production. But why can't they go into the classroom and show me setting up my cute? They're going to strap a GoPro. You do this every week you teach. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's fun for me. So the weeks I don't go, I have to get a sub. So yes, sometimes we don't go. Some weeks, like next week is Mother's Day. So all the men teach for us. Oh, cute.

That's sweet. Yes. And all the women get to go to like have their own little class. Do you have to wear like a fancy dress or fancy suit to church? They just say to show respect. It's like a respect thing for Christ. So like show up as your best dress. Like it could be pants.

It's if you want as a woman, you don't have to wear a dress. It's just like, don't come in like your sweats with your messy hair. You know, they want you to show, like, be your best self that day. Like, you're coming to there to show up for Christ. That's probably most churches. I think most churches are that way. Dude, I think you'd be surprised by non-denominational now, bro. They say come as you are.

Show up in like a wife beater with, like, tatted up. You know what? And I actually, part of me actually loves that because you should be able to show up as is how you are. How much as you are. I can't remember who said this, but one of the, the fact that you're there is big. One of the leaders of the church one time said,

if the church doesn't smell a reek of smoke and alcohol and all sorts of stuff, we're not doing our job. You know? I think you should show up like that. Everybody should be there no matter what you look like. Can you imagine that everyone's drunk at church? You said that part of your church, like the men teach on Mother's Day.

That reminded me of something. And since you kind of opened the floor for curious questions. Yes, yes, yes. No, curious questions are great. So I have curious questions about the church too, especially just because I feel like in general, like because of the show probably and in general, like Mormon culture has become so like people are fascinated by it. I feel like. Especially with the show. I know.

Especially with the show came out, right? Yes. I think the show has a major role in that. And now your show too. We've been to a couple like at the church like baby blessings. Oh yeah. And I always surprised me that there's no women up at the front when they're doing the baby blessings. So we believe...

We believe in something called the priesthood and the men hold the priesthood because they have nothing else to do because we can't create life. The women get to sit back and just relax. No, I think it's more so. I think it's less about the guys I don't have anything to do.

I think it was just back in biblical times. You know how Jesus went to John the Baptist to baptize him because he had the priesthood. And I feel like then he gave the priesthood to the 12 apostles. So it's been passed down through men. since biblical times and so we believe that the priesthood is still on the earth it's been restored and those same keys that were back in the old testament and new testament are here on the earth now and they can heal just like

jesus would heal and they can or perform specific ordinances blessings or baptism or yes so we have people with the priesthood perform baptisms and baby blessings and things like that that have been passed down all the way from jesus to now and that can only be men yeah so men hold the priesthood So far. And why is it that every LDS family has like seven children? I think for our church, you can say if you want, I have my. I like when you talk. Yeah, no, I feel like God's plan was for all of us to come to earth, right?

To get a body, to experience life, to learn good from evil, to have our agency and return back to him, right? That's like the point of life. I feel like having kids brings the spirits and the people here, you know? So people can come from heaven and experience. experience life. Oh yeah, because you guys believe that like when you're born, you were already like alive, right? Yes. I like, the LDS belief is yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that we were like we've always existed like our spirits like we have a higher self like we've always existed like existed in a way. Before we were before we were it actually says in the scripture before we were

born, he knew us, you know. So yes, we believe in like a pre-existence. It talks about the war in heaven and the third of the host of heaven followed Satan and you know I mean like we were all there. And then we all go, we'll go back home, right? Have you guys ever participated in a baptism for the dead? Yes. How often does it happen? Whenever you want to go.

So I, if you go to the temple and want to do that, you can. But I've only done that when I was 12. You just do it in proxy, in proxy for someone's name that's passed. So accept a man and be born of water and of the spirit. He cannot enter the kingdom of God. We believe in baptism being an essential saving ordinance, right? Like a step to. A lot of non-denaminational Christians don't believe that it's an essential saving

awareness. They believe that baptism isn't necessarily a necessary thing. So we do it in proxy and just gives those who have passed on an opportunity to accept. I feel like Jesus. That ordinance on behalf of your decision to, you know, bury your old life and become new in Christ. If you don't mind me asking who was the baptism for when you were 12? You just get names of people that have passed. So people will do family history work. So there's like online, you can have your family tree. Okay. So you can actually go and find old birth certificates or marriage certificates

or anything for people that have passed in your family. And you can end up finding like old aunts and uncles and their cousins and their cousins. And it just endless goes, right? So all these people, you figure out who they were married to and who their kids were. And then you can take one of those names and go in and do their baptism if they were never baptized. Then they can have the option to decide if they want to accept it or not. You're in deep, deep, deep dog. Yeah, I love it.

Sorry. It's so scary. Okay that I'm asking these deep questions. Of course. I don't care. Yeah. And so was it like your mom or your grandma that was like, hey, hey girls, we're going to do this baptism for like, you know, Joseph W.

I'm going to say Smith. I don't know. Of all the names of Smith. Shirkle, Joseph Shirkle from 1763. I don't know. Like you're doing all your industry. Pretty much. I guess so. How old are these people that you're baptizing? Back to the 1500s. I don't even know. 1500s.

I don't even know. 1500s? Yeah, really. You've done baptisms for the death. the dead from people in the 1500s? Yes, they do for everybody. I've only, honestly, I've only done it probably five times in my whole life. Really? Yeah. That is, that's so interesting. So what does it look like? Can we talk about what that looks like? They're just names on a car, man. Oh, you get, you get baptized for them. Yeah. Yeah. Ah, so you're like, you're going in their place to get baptized for them. Yeah. Yeah. And then you believe that like in the afterlife, they're given the

choice to accept God. That's what, that's what life's all about. Life's about our agency, right? We get choose like whether we accept christ or we don't but if somebody didn't get baptized are they screwed like is there still hope for them i don't i think all everything is done on god's timeline so whatever we can do in this life you know whatever we can do in this life to help somebody else that's what we do and then the rest is for for i think uh god and you know i only did that when i was 12 though i mean i would do it again if we want but when you when you're in young women's you go to young when you're 12 and I think it was like a field trip basically wait I am so do they talk about on the show like young women's yeah might yeah yeah so what does that

look like young women's is ages 12 to 18 and it's just the class you go to now it's like calling it junior high so it's like primary is like elementary school and then when you turn 12 to 18 you go to young women's okay or young men's and then you turn 18 then you're an adult so now you just go to the adult classes one of my good friends like do you hosted do you lead young women or she has a role in young women's? There's a teacher. Everyone gets callings in our church. So it's like a job basically, but you're not getting paid. You're just service.

So everyone has like a job. So that way that's how you like have it all run smoothly and everyone can do their thing. Thank you to Good Wives are sponsoring today's episode. Gut Health is all the rage, but let's talk about but health. It's time we leave dry, scratchy toilet paper in the past and show that beautiful booty the love it deserves. Good Wives has created an actual flushable wife. wipe, it is made with plant-based fibers so they break down easily. They come in a variety of

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for the show been what you expected to be? Because even Kyler, we're taking a look at like your ceiling has magnets on it for the camera gear. They came in and added magnets everywhere. So the way they can come in, they can attack all lighting quickly. Magnet. It sounded like Matt said maggots. Yeah, there's maggots over here. Hold up. So this right here is like, is a lighting strip or that's like a wire going up? It's a wire so they can plug in or whatever. Yeah. I don't know. They came in and did their thing for a couple hours and left and I haven't asked any questions. I don't even know what it's like this whole house to be bugged. I don't know. Oh, I didn't think about that. Oh my gosh. Whoa. What if they're filming like

behind the scenes all day. Then we're screwed like screwed bad. I'm moving out of country. Dude that would be- That would be intimidating if they had a camera in your house at all times. They do that on some reality TV show. Well, they got to let you. But yeah, it's not like, we're doing anything crazy over here. Just that feels a little uncomfortable.

Right. Who knows what, who knows? Who knows? Anything can happen. Yeah, why did you, okay, because this isn't your first rodeo. You've done, you know, multiple shows before. I know you guys did a show about born, born to be viral. Yes.

Was there so that you guys did? Yeah. documentary was there any hesitancy after that documentary of like putting your life back out there for yeah yeah i don't really care i don't like that kinds of stuff very much really what do you mean by that it felt too vulnerable like they were filmed us for five years and you don't know what footage they're going to use and they just come in and they'll just film you for like five hours and you're just living your life and you don't know what they're going to choose and you're like what's going to be in the edit what are they going to do and then they'll take cute moments out and put the moments in that you

look at your worst that are kind of like the worst moment and then they'll add like this ominous vibe to it I don't know I felt like it was ominous I feel like the way that the cover image they chose and stuff with the kids saying in from all the screens I'm like what is your what was your intention with this this doesn't feel like you're just showing the daily life of vloggers well it's like you guys had like an agenda it is interesting though because yeah you guys did that show which I want to say who was a part of and now who's a part of this new show like is it all connected in a way I guess It could have been a little bit. Yeah.

I think this one's gonna be more positive. I definitely knew who we were, you know what I mean, because of that last thing, and I think that was an element of it, for sure. Were you guys happy with how that documentary, or was it a documentary or was it a documentary? I didn't mind. I didn't mind. I think there are some elements I didn't like, but that's. I love the producer, Inez.

She's amazing. Did I like the documentary? Probably not. Madison doesn't like anything that has any light on her. I will watch stuff over and over and be like, I didn't like that I said that. I don't like that I did that. I don't like the way I walked. I don't like what I'm wearing.

I just need to be more confident, I guess. So I don't know if we can say this, but so we can cut this out if it's not. But you were asked to be a part of the housewives in Utah. Okay. We could talk about that. Okay. For years. When I lived in Los Angeles, they asked me to be on the real houseways of Beverly Hills.

And I turned it down. And then I moved to Orange County. And they asked me to be on the real houseways of OC. And I said no. And then I moved to Utah. And then I came back to OC. And they asked me again to be on this time. And this time I was like, okay, let's entertain.

maybe. I took the interview and this is for housewives of OC. Yeah, I took the interview this time for the first time. Wanted to see the vibes. You know, I'm like, I don't, why am I always saying no? Maybe I should just do something. So then I took the interview and then they wanted me to meet me up with the other woman and they really wanted me to do it. And my, I finally was feeling like really nervous. I don't know. I just don't really feel like it's right. And then I just turned it down. And then I got asked to be on this a few months later. This felt more right because the girls are my real friends. I am LDS. I loved the other show. The other show, I don't know, I felt, it felt more like homie feeling. I felt like it wasn't as scary because I knew everybody on it and

we were all kind of doing this for the first time together. It's like you're jumping into a cast that's already been there for so long and you're the new girl. It's like we're all starting it at the same time, right? Yeah. It kind of was like this new thing for all of us. Yeah. And so it just felt more exciting. And I really did love the other show. I watched every episode and I love all those girls. So I'm like I would love to be attached to whatever that they've built. So you have a good relationship with all of those girls. Yeah. In the previous season. Yeah. I mean, I haven't met I haven't met them that much when I was at the get real event. Four of them were in front of me. And I said hi to all of them and they were so, so, so sweet. So they're just really nice. That's cool.

Yeah. Did you grow up with any of the girls from the original show as well? Um, I knew to me. Her ex-husband was his groomsman. We knew Dakota and Taylor because Dakota, tile at our bathroom in Utah when we were remodeling. No way. To tell you bathroom. Yeah. Small world. Yes.

And then we met Taylor at the gym and stuff. Yeah. And then I went to high school with Macy. That's a really small world, you guys. I don't realize how small the world was. I know. It's pretty small. Were you surprised when you heard about the swinging controversy?

A little bit. Was that something that you, like the community already knew about it? I did not know about it. I didn't even know that people were swinging. I'm such in a bubble. Because that's, That's what started the entire thing, right? That's like why the show was...

Perked Hollywood up to go out there and cover it, you know. When I think about like the Utah mom talk, I feel like since then, there's been so many other mom talks that have sprung up. Mom talk is everywhere. But when I think about, I feel like, when I think about that, when I think about like, obviously the swinging scandal, but also like,

immense competition with one another. Yes. Like, do you feel that with the other moms that are a part of this new cast? Like that competitive element? It could get there maybe. I think as we start to really get ingrained and the storyline starts to unfold more,

I wonder, like maybe. Maybe people could start getting competitive. Are you competitive? I'm not very competitive. Competitive stuff stresses me out. So I usually will back up and just take the background spot because I can't handle it. Is that what you're going to do?

Maybe. I might just be on the couch in the back if everyone's fighting. Mattis is just like a people-pleaser. She's super nice. She just likes to be nice. Yeah. Do you think that this, this atmosphere could bring out a new side of you? Ooh.

Because you said you were coming for the first time ever having a... Episode one was the most terrifying thing of my entire life because I was speaking truth and trying to stand up for myself for the first time. I don't stand up for myself. So if I try to stand up for myself, I just cry. Yeah. So I am like, yes, I think it's going to grow me in a way of like I can have a hard conversation and still be okay, right?

Usually when I have a hard conversation with someone, I think my whole world is falling apart. You don't cry every time you have a hard conversation with me. Except for Kyler. You're very stern with me. With you, but do you remember when you got in that little Tiff with our, with Courtney, how I literally cried in our room.

He got in a fight with somebody and I cried for three days. On the show? No, it is in real life. Just if he gets in an argument with somebody, it's not even me. Just because he is and I had to hear it or like witness it. I can't function until I have to go and call them and fix it for him.

Was it hard for you, Kyler, to watch Madison go through this? You know, episode one confronting somebody, sharing out her feelings were, was it like, was it for you to hold back? I've had, I've done everything in my power to hold back. I told him he needs to just hold back and just be kind. Like, we just need to move forward and be kind.

Does Kyler tend to like do the fighting for you or do her to, like, confront people? If I had to defend her, I'm going to battle. The thing is, that's interesting about the story. The villain, I'm calling it. Kyle, I won't be a villain. I'm just going to defend my wife. I feel like there's a lot of excitement, a lot of buzz circulating about this. Do we know when the first episode is coming out?

Ooh, they said probably around the fall. So I'm guessing falls like September, October. I think it's going to be late fall. Late fall? Yeah. How do you know? Do you have an inside person? I mean, we've heard it a couple times.

Yeah, the production has told us. And also, I'm going to be watching it for the first time as everyone else. They don't show us the edit. That's so scary. It's scary because you know how you film so, many hours and days, right? And that all compiles into little moments. So they might film like 40 hours and that might just be like a 10 minute video. Okay. Okay. Let's just address the elephant in the room. There's there's villains on reality TV shows, you guys. There's people that like like the public

generally just hates. I mean, if you look at Secret Lives Mormon Wives, the original show, Whitney on season one was hated. Maybe maybe there was something with the producers and they just thought that was a good interesting plot line. And obviously she's had a huge comeback, which I think is like, which I think is really cool. Now she's like the favorite. For anyone that's ever been canceled or ever got an online heat, I think it's cool to look at Whitney and say, oh, doesn't matter what you've been through.

There's always like, there's always a silver lining. And there's always like something. I think that's the beauty of having multiple seasons is because you really get to see people transform. And if somebody has a bad moment, it doesn't define their whole character. But what happens with reality TV is people are seeing little moments and they're judging people off this one thing. But can people see your whole entire character? The truth eventually comes out. They see that how you've handled situations multiple times and that it's not always like

that. You know what I mean? You have to let people have an opportunity to really show who they are through a lot of episodes. Yeah. I think that's what happened was maybe people were judging her too quickly and they didn't see that she was just a very honest, truthful person, very confident in herself. I mean, I think that's what happened, right? She became so confident. I see so much confidence in her. It's been, it's been fascinating to watch because I remember feeling like as a, as a creative and as someone that's been on social media, I think everyone goes through it at some point where you get canceled or hate. And so when she was getting a lot of hate, I just felt, I just felt bad because I was like, yeah, you know, that doesn't even matter what you did.

It's just hard to experience all that, you know, feedback. But it's been, it's been cool. Like now I see like her comment section or her husband's comment section is like so positive. So positive. People are like, like cheering them on so much. Yeah, no, I think it's really cool what they've done. It must be scary for you guys, though. Going into season one, it's like, you have no idea how you're going to be perceived on the show. Like you said, they can make me the villain.

You never know. Yeah. Yeah, I think you might be the villain. I might be. Because you're too nice. They don't like you. They might not like that I'm, I don't know. I'm just kidding. I don't know.

I don't think I'm going to be the villain. Unless it's Kyler. People find her ways to make me look like a scumbick. I just, I just, one thing I just do not like, and I think you will find if it makes it in the edit, is I do not like fake people. Ooh. I don't like fake people.

I don't like somebody that kind of blends into whatever environment they're in. It drives me absolutely nuts. So I just like real people, you know? Yeah. Holding back and not trying to pick a fight at all moments and just trying to be cordial, I think that's a mature thing to do. I don't think that's fake. Like, why would I want to pick a fight with somebody?

I just think the best thing to do is not to invite them. Don't invite them. No, I'm inclusive. Oh. Are you saying that I'm fake? Yeah, a little bit. I'm just kidding. She's like, do we need to hash this out right now?

How does your family feel about you guys being on the show? My mom, I think my mom is terrified. Probably for me, because she knows me. My family was supportive of it because I think also, I think at first they were scared, but because I have other friends on it that they know that they grew up with, and then they know their parents, I think they're kind of in it with them. They're like, oh, our daughter's doing this together. That's fun.

I'm sure that gives them some peace of mind, like, okay. Yes. We know the people involved. We know their character. And like, we know their hearts. It's called See Your Lives of Mormon Wives, but your guys, your kids play a big role in your everyday life. And like, I always was, I was talking to my sister-in-law.

We have a podcast with my sister-in-law. We were just talking about like, if we were to be a part of some reality mom TV show, it would really just look like us trying to rush between nap time to go to the grocery store, going to splash pad like yeah we're not necessarily throwing big parties like we love to have a party but it's usually just like a pool party where we turn on monsters ink yeah like what where does the mom role come into like a tv show like this i hope they can incorporate the mom rules a little bit um because i don't feel because it's not centered around the kids and they don't really want the kids on it i feel like how am i going to show that i'm a mom without having the kids there at all they did say

the kids can be in the background in some scenes, but they're not going to show up close, which is good. I think it's good to keep the kids off of secret lives and Mormon wives. I've shown a reality show like what you guys are talking about where it's your family. That's super cute to have your kids. It's a family thing. It's about your life. This one could have a lot of drama in it, you know? It's an older audience. I don't know. It's like more mature settings sometimes. Yeah. I don't know if they're not a part of the filming process. They're not a part of it really. I think that's what was stressing me out about the last documentary is they just, you know, interview. doing them and getting up close.

I'm like, but that's stressful. I don't know. Yeah. I can see that as a mom, like having concerns about that type of environment. Yes, we show our kids on the internet, but we have full control of like what we're putting out, right? We are deciding, you know, a good authentic moment. Whereas like them, like if they're just like filming everything, it gives you don't have any say. Are we able to talk about how you guys get paid?

Is that like public information on, you know, I think we've already talked about that before. If you're getting like a cut of the revenue or if it's like residual. show yeah yeah oh i think they just pay us per episode oh yeah it's a flat yeah flat rate per episode and is that negotiated by like your manager with the production company yeah with lawyers and stuff like entertainment lawyers and then still just we just make the money the same just like brand deals how do you guys do it with five kids like we we have our handful we have our handful with two we have another one on the way you have five how how does that even work i think just being really flexible while not not feeling like everything has to be perfect all the time right like if i like right now my

house is pretty clean actually but if my house is a full disaster but we need to go somewhere i'll leave the disaster for later Chloe is here which is super nice my cousin just moved in with us last week and she's going to be with us all summer keeping up on the house oh so you're keeping up on like so many things oh so your cousin's been helping like with the kids and with like cleaning and stuff yes yes she's just here like if i need to run an errand she's here she'll come with me places with the kids Kyler's all like both of us work from home together right so we're always here very similar to your guys is yeah like how you guys are so we're always just around I have all my family in town my kids go to school so that's opens up a lot of opportunity to get work done so when they're out of school we can

be more present okay before that it was a little harder when they were little like you guys are in the little phase where they're always home for us that that was a little bit harder more I feel like I was a little bit more survival mode like now we have all these hours when they're at school I'm like well what are we going to do so i can get a lot done yeah before we started actually recording our conversation uh yeah you were telling me about a time that you had a newborn a one and a half year old and two three year olds yeah during covid yeah newborn a one and a half year old and two a twin three year olds it was crazy that's insane yeah it's so wild did you sleep at all we didn't even have help i don't even remember were we even sleeping yeah i mean all of our kids i think we everybody

has that like four to six month window where they don't like sleep when you have a newborn but Our kids all slept really well. They're good sleepers. We always would wake up every three hours, though, in the night. Goodness. Until at least they were six months old. Somehow you just keep on going. That's what I say.

Moms make it happen. We just figure it out. And dads. But it's difficult. It's definitely difficult. I feel like moms have a, like a reserve that's just like when you're at zero percent, we do have an emergency generator. I think so.

That you can plug in that dad's mom. Yeah, just a little bit extra. No, I totally agree. You're like you've got to dig a little deeper. Thank you to Haya for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. Did you know that our kids are the first generation growing up with ultra-processed foods? I don't like that. As a parent, that bothers me.

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To claim the deal, you must go to HayaHealth.com slash unplanned. This deal is not available on their regular website. Go to H-I-Y-A-H-E-A-L-T-H-H-com slash unplanned. get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults. Has there been anything like funny that's happened recently, especially with five kids? I don't know if like you have kids that are asking like silly questions. Oh yeah. Our kids are asking us all sorts of questions like, like the questions that are like.

You don't want to answer. What some things are called that you were like, who told you that word? Well like okay for instance our three year old. Our three year old was asking about like how Abby was pregnant and then I'm like, how do we explain this to him we haven't had the birds in the most oh you haven't no not yet they think that we just if you kiss a lot you can get a baby you guys tell them that i said they said but then we'll kiss like so could you be pregnant right now i'm like well you have to like really kiss a lot like what are you guys going to break the news probably this well i wanted to tell them about you know

like Santa and all that's the first okay so we just told them in February that feels like a good order I'm like I thought we can't have the birds and beast talk when there's something the Easter is coming next week They're so little. I don't know. I feel like they're still in that imaginative phase. Like they still play Barbies and stuff. I feel like they get to that phase where they're kind of in that like preteeny vibe.

Uh-huh. You know, where they're not make believe all day. And then you go, I feel like that's the time. You're going to have. How did the Easter Bunny and Santa conversation go? It was funny. It was spur of them all. We were just having a random night.

We're like, shoot. All the kids were asleep, but the twins were the only ones up, which never happens. Usually Hawkins's awake too. So there's just the twins and us. And we were like, let's just go have this conversation with them. now so we just sit there and i was like so you know the easter bunny and santa and two fairy and the lepergon all these things like they're just it was me and dad they're like no it wasn't like yeah the elf so the elf was you the elf on the shelf yeah you were the one that did the spider man

spider man wrapped up the elf then i was like yeah and then i i had like one of paulson's teeth in my drawer and then i have their little santa like letters in my drawer until i showed them they're like your teeth. What? And they were super. So Oakley was crying a little bit. Tatum was like, thought it was so cool. And then they came around and they thought it was funny.

Then they started laughing. And then they started remembering all the moments that we did. And they're like, you guys were actually bad at this. And you guys were bad at that. Wait, you're really bad dad at the elf then. Or like,

whatever. It was just like a late night. Yeah. It was impossible. I feel like I can never introduce that. Yes. Don't do it. It's hard.

We are too tight beef for that. We'd be like, no it'd be like somebody was at one in the morning I'd be like oh my gosh we didn't move the elf dude I feel like yeah our kids would definitely yeah ruin that immediately and that would just cause a landslide for all the other all the other creatures um my question for you is you raised three girls and then now and then two boys yes was raising girls different is it like pretty different from your boy are your girls pretty different from your boys yeah they're really different but I'm trying to think like pinpoint like what is different about them I think for the girls they would get entertained with the slightest things

Like I could pull out like chalk or paints or something and we would play for hours. Whereas the boys, they get over it in one second. They're like peacocks. They want to just like run. They, like they are attention span. They want to leave the house. It's like they just want to do something more. I was always,

I always asked my friends with girls that are the same age as my boys. I'm like, so do they just like sit in color? Yeah, they're like, oh, they're like, oh, we're like, eating crans. Yes. Snap men. Our kids want to break the crans. Breaking them.

Yes. Eating them. Are they getting more chill? They will actually color now. They can sit in color. They'll color for about 10 minutes. That's good. It's great.

It's a whole 10 minutes. I do feel like with the girls, I just figured it out. Like I felt like I was being, you know, such a great mom because I could set up an activity and they would work. But then the boys have set up an activity

and when it's not working, I'm like, well, okay, what do you guys want to do? What is it you want to do? I feel like, just a couple lightsabers is all they need. Yes. For them, yes,

it's more physical. So they want to play monster, their favorite game ever. They want me to chase them around. I'm like a monster and try to get them. Pull them off the couch, wrap them in the blanket, throw them on the couch. They want to do that kind of stuff.

Yeah. So it's more exhausting. Yeah, I'm like, they're like, chase me, chase me. I'm like, yes. Yeah, they want you to like entertain them. Whereas the girls, like you could get stuff done and they're kind of entertaining their own, like they're just around you.

They're like creating the moment themselves. The thing that I've heard from my friends with girls is like they get hit and then they're sad because they are hurt that they got hit and then they're sad emotionally because someone chose to hit them. Whereas I feel like as soon as it stops stinging for our kids, that for our boys at least, it's like they obviously have great emotional needs too, but just looks different.

Yes. And so it's like then they just seemed like they're fine. I think they're starting to get more emotional. They've been having friend issues at school. Not them. They're very, they're much like me like where I just like am kind of chill like the peacemaker. I don't like to get involved in like drama.

So they're kind of like that too. But they will come home saying like, this friend was crying today, this friend was upset that I was talking to this friend. This friend doesn't want us to be friends with this friend. So they're being pulled in all these different directions and it's tough. But there's a counselor at their school that all the kids will go in there and she helps facilitate like a meeting and they all will come in and chat about what's going on at recess and then she helps them become friends again.

So it's good. So they'll open up to us about stuff like that. Do your kids like living in California more or Utah more? I think they like it here a lot better. Do you like it here more too? Oh yeah. Because you guys are from California, moved to Utah. She's from here.

I'm from Idaho. Oh, okay, that's right. That's like, that's kind of random. Yeah. From Idaho. Yeah. I heard he's beautiful. It is.

I like, it was a great, it was great growing up there. But I mean, when you live in California for as long as we have, it's like, man, you, it's too cold. Yeah. It's just too cold. It's like seven months of winter in Utah. It's so warm here. I felt like in Utah, because it was. yeah, because it was like seven months of colds, I'm such a home body already. So to get all the kids in

their snowsuits to go out in the snow and then they would get over it after, you know, 30 minutes they're freezing. You go back inside. You can spend a lot of time indoors. Whereas I feel like out here, they can play outside all throughout the year. And then also my whole family moved here. So I'm like by all of them. So, yeah, that's great. Something else I wanted to talk about, but I'm like, what was like, what should what should we talk about? What do you guys, what do you think the people want, Kyler. I feel like you're like in tune with what the people want, you know, me. What do the people want to know? We can't share too much about the show. Yes. So it's kind of a secret. But should we come, we'll have to come back when the episode's release and we can chat about

the episodes. That would be great. Yes. Because I want to share. I'm happy to dive into all this stuff that's going on right now because to be honest, I want to. And I'm excited to share this kind of stuff with the world. I'm already on these platforms that just like, well, talk about things and I have to keep asking you know like Hulu and stuff like what can I share you know and you can't share a lot right now Gotcha yeah because this is I mean correct me if I'm wrong is this the first podcast you guys have done since the show is announced Yeah, yeah very cool oh no way I just did a podcast we did one with Chris Katan from Saturday night and oh I like two weeks ago Oh yeah and I did one with Larissa but I don't think we talked oh yeah we weren't both of those we say we can't really talk about much So we live we did do two podcasts and so nice oh yeah I

I'm like I forgot already. We get asked every day to be on a podcast, but I don't, you know, there's only certain people we want to be on podcast here. The unplanned podcast, 100%. Thank you. This is the number one podcast. And I feel honored that you've listened to our podcast.

Yes. I want to say something too. I love you guys. We've known each other for so long. Yes, I wanted to say this because I was telling Matt, I was like, something you texted me, which you probably have no memory of.

When we lived in Hawaii, so I'm talking about like four or five years ago. Okay. No, it's probably, This is 2021. 20. Abby was so sad. I was so sad.

Well, we were living in Hawaii. And then you were like, just have kids. You were like, just have kids. I remember you texting me. You were like, seriously just like start your family.

You're like, I remember being like, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but this is how I like remember it. No, it's whatever you can remember. You were like, I remember being like lonely and like feeling like maybe like having like a feel like lost for purpose in some way and you can correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah. But then when you had kids like you were like, you felt like just like so like a piece of your identity. identity like was like there and like felt so much purpose and like happiness and excitement in your life and I remember being like I think she's right and like literally I also am like very hesitant to say that because I'm like this is not the way to go about things if you're like in a low place life it's not the advice but for someone like for someone I feel like we're in the same way like for where like you felt like so much purpose and identity and a mom and it felt like you hadn't been

able to step into that role yet and that moment of waiting was like kind of agonizing. For me, kids changed my whole life. So I always give people that advice. So that's something I would have said. Madison and we were in Los Angeles. We were just running around. Madison's been an actress and models and she was like a three-year-old little girl. And we moved to Hollywood to be closer to that so she could really dive in. And I also dived in and we were just running around Hollywood being actors and trying to do their things. thing and we felt like we were just kind of like in a like one of those little hamster wheels yeah and we just what the purpose we felt like what our per what was our purpose and we just kind

of referred back to everything that honestly the church teaches which is I mean our literal position here in life is to like have children grow gain experience become like our heavenly father like you know become like the savior Jesus Christ like the whole goal of this life is that not to be an actor or whatever the whole goal is to, you know, that is the purpose of life. And so I can't remember exactly how it went down, but me and Madison just one day, we just kind of just. Yes. Well, the purpose also is to gain knowledge your own self. There's a lot of people that don't have kids. And I think that, you know, they have just as much purpose. I feel like they're growing. We found purpose in that, though.

Right. But we found purpose in having kids. I feel like for me, I remember I have this journal upstairs and I had like this really sad journal entry back in 2015. And it was like, I was like in depression. And I'm like, what is my purpose? What am I doing? I don't know what to do. I was like, I want to have kids, but I don't know if it's the right time. And everything just felt very random. And I remember it was like a really sad journal entry.

And then you turn the page and it was like a year and a half later. It's like, I'm about to have twins. I'm so excited. This is the best time of my life. Like my whole journal, my whole personality. Like I felt like I had such a purpose. It changed my whole life. And I always feel like God will provide a way when you become a parent.

And I remember what you were saying about how it's not good advice to some people that are not in a situation. Don't put that on your kids. Yes. Like it's a youth thing. You have to decide for yourself. You have to be intuitive yourself. Maybe it's not for everyone at that moment. But for me, I felt like every, the odds were against me.

We didn't, it's not like we had a ton of money or had a whole career going on. We didn't have, we were in a little apartment, one bedroom. What was my purpose of having a child? I was only 23, you know? for me the odds were against me I could have easily been like no I need to have a career first I need to get to this point first I need to have this amount of money first I need to be my own home first I could have said all of those things but instead I took faith that God will has a plan for me and I'm like I'm going to have a baby because I know that being a mom will bring so much joy

and I know that he has a plan and he will provide a way no matter what so we had a baby in within within two weeks time actually our life was in financial shambles yes within two weeks time of having the baby, it was like, it was a 180, just complete one. Yeah, our whole entire life changed. It was like literally mountains were moved for us. Doors were just opening out of nowhere that, like, just in our business and just everything, like things were just like falling into place that we couldn't have even foreseen. And I feel like that's, to me, was a testimony of like God has a bigger plan that we can't see outside of him. You know, there's that cute little picture of where like Jesus Christ is holding a giant bear behind his back. And that's the thing.

the little girl's handing him a bear and she's like but I want it Jesus I don't want to give you the bear and it says trust me he has a big giant bear behind his back so for us we want to hold on to what we have and like we're so nervous to like we can't see the plan that he has that's so much bigger for us right and medicine actually had tested for networks for a TV show or whatever and and she was that that basically means that they like want you but you have to like actually film an episode with the and then they send it to the network and stuff So I think you were either pregnant or you just got pregnant. Literally right.

You found out right then. I can't remember exactly. But I just remember being like, this was your whole life. And this is where we come to. And now you're having a baby. And then our whole life just fell into place regardless. And is that like I'm guessing at this point, you know, you're done. Like have you had a vasectomy?

Is that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, how was that? It was, it was like, stressful for three minutes.

Or does it, what does it feel like? No, I mean, I had laughing gas, so I don't really remember. I just remember just. That makes me cringe. Did you go? No, he just came home. You didn't go. You're just like.

No, it's not like that. It's literally a three minute procedure. It's quick. So you think the guys that are whining about it, they're just. They're just putting on a show. You've seen your wife have five babies. You're like. I thought about that.

that when I was in the middle of that I was like I was like no they're just taking like big scissors and you're like oh no it's not like that yeah they cut off the whole thing oh wow he doesn't have those parts anymore oh okay yeah no I think it's just like a little puncture the birds of the bees it's just a puncture I think that's all it is and then I don't like to think about it because they just stab the sack is what you're talking much wait I also want to just put a quick caveat on there like talking about like the like our identity as moms and like that like making it feel. I just want to be very mindful about people that have a difficult journey to parenthood or like that's something that you really, really, really, really want. And you feel

like you're in that like limbo, like we kind of described feeling before having kids. Like, that just makes, I mean, it just makes my heart ache for you so much. Yes, me too. And it's not like, I don't want to just paint this picture that it's like a solution. Yeah. So I'm just saying like as for people that like this is such a big, I just feel like there's a certain type of person like that I feel like community with where I'm like this was like a crazy desire that I like felt since I was literally born like I was like no everyone everyone has unlocked new qualities in me yeah I never thought I had no I feel for all like there's I have personal friends who have tried for so many years and cannot get pregnant and I have such a soft place in my

heart for all of them and it's not easy like I feel so blessed that I was able to have kids so that could have been a completely different story for me. But I also, like, it's so important for us also to remember what our story is and to share our story, right? Regardless of, you know, someone else is going to have a story that I'll never be able to, that I'll never do, right? Of course, when I speak of it, I speak of it for ourselves and what it was. Right. Yeah. Everybody's situation is different for sure.

Totally. To circle back to the vasectomy. Like, the thought of being done gives me some sort of like panic. I know. Sometimes I felt that. Like, I still think, like, we were joking about it, like, maybe a month ago. We're like, should we just, like, maybe have just one more? But it's always just a joke. I think for me, we kind of know. I would have 100 babies. That's what I'm begging for. 10 more if my lifespan was, like, to 400. And we stayed young for a lot of years. But, like, we get older, right? Like, we can only have so many kids. It's not that I'm like... Your body can only handle so much. Your mental can only handle so much. You get to a point where you're just like, this is good for us.

Yes. And then all the... Also, life is expensive. Like, how do we go on trips or really experience things? Yeah. How do you guys go on trips? We'd hardly ever go on trips. It is one person harder than four. We hardly ever go on trips. And like we're almost out of space for cars. It feels like a lot of person is harder.

Every seat is filled in our car. Five, five persons is one harder persons than four. Oh, yeah. Whoa. Five persons is one harder persons and four? Yeah, yeah. Whoa. That's good math.

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Shopify, and start hearing... Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash unplanned. Go to Shopify.com slash unplanned. That's Shopify.com slash unplanned. So your vehicle just barely fit your entire family. You guys are... You guys don't have a school bus out front.

I want to get one of those printer vans. Oh, you want to get one of those printer vans. Oh, you want. That's what our, our next door neighbors are LDS. Yeah, every seat is filled. Our neighbors are LDS and they have a Sprinter Van. They do? Because they have six kids.

Oh my God. We thought about getting a Sprinter van. It's just like, you can't park anywhere, you know? I don't like that. They can't park it in the garage. Parking in L.A. too. I'm calling this L.A.

But also, the thing about with a lot of kids, though, I think that's kind of, maybe it's been like a coincidence because there's a lot of L.A.' They even just have one or two kids. Oh, yeah. Maybe that was a thing back in the day.

I always wanted, regardless of, of like my religion. I just wanted a lot, a lot of kids, just because I used to watch the cheaper by the dozen movie growing up. And I thought it was cool.

And like I have a friend that's not even LBS and she has more kids than me. Because you come from one, you're one of five. Yeah. Four. Okay, so you guys both were like coming from decently.

So I don't really feel like it has to do with religion, but remember I was saying that families are so important in our religion, like the way that we view families, but I don't necessarily think that means you have to have a bunch of kids. Okay. I just think you have,

having a child teaches you selflessness, teaches you how to push through, you know, and during really hard times, that kind of love that you have for them, you learn only through kind of family units, I guess. How big is your family? It's just me and my brother. Just you and your brother.

So what's kind of like in you to want to have like a ton of kids? I love kids. Yeah. I think they're just so fun. And you're such a cute mom. You're so sweet. No, I just think it's so fun. And I always like, I love the idea of like a big family.

Same thing. Like two or a dozen are like families like kids that had a lot of siblings. Like I love a busy full. I love chaos too. Yeah. So it's like. It's fun. That's fun.

I'm like I love doing a ton of things. Do you like chaos, Matt? I do. Something Abby said to me yesterday was when you're with our kids, it can be stressful at times, but you're never sad. You're never sad. Like I'm like you can be, you can be pulling your hair out. You can be confused.

You can be scattered. You can be like all types of things. I'm not saying it's all butterflies and rainbows, but you're never sad and you're never, ever bored. I just like seeing the world through their point of view. It's really cute. I know. They're so pure and they're so in the moment

and they're so forgiving and they're so loving. I love the way that they like experience the world. It's really refreshing. No one will know what this means when I say this, but like Cohen comes in yesterday yelling, Mom, mom, come see this. There's a witch in the backyard. And I'm just like,

And it was just Oakley on the swing with a broom running through her legs. You're like, what is the thing? He just like thinks it's so cool. He had to show Molly just that was so cool. Like in his mind, like there was a, like she turned into a witch on the swing, you know? Like I literally think they see things differently. Yeah. And it's so special, but.

I legit thought I could fly when I was like his age. They tell me they're flying. I would jump off the couch and flap my arms and I would just, I really believe that I had that moment. That was yesterday. Griffin did that and he fell. we started having him have quiet time and I hear a huge thud which I hear every single day him by himself in his room like massive thud and he comes he comes out the door and he's like standing at the bandit and he goes I hurt my elbow and I was like what how he's like I was flying and I was so cute

I was like okay buddy I got my new favorite thing is our two year old when he wakes up from his nap he is just like a different person he's just like he walks down the stairs Oh, sleepy. He's so sleepy. Brumpy. And if you get, if you get like, and you get up to, like, in his face like, hi, buddy, good his seat. Like, he'll slap you in the face.

Oh my God. No. Yeah. But you just like, so grumpy after their naps. Yes. I have to, when I wake them up from like a car ride and they're asleep, I know that I just have to let them slowly wake up while they're on me because if I'm just like, hey, get up, we got to go.

They'll just be so whiny. No, it's like really. It has to like a slow wake up. Like I'll be like, hey, get up. He will come out. of a really just stands there for a long time just observing what's happening below and sometimes there's like chaos happening below he's like what happened when like literally Saturday he woke up from his nap and there was a whole ton of people at our house because we were having a pool party there's like literally

25 people and he went to bed there was no one and so he's just like oh my gosh and all the kids are like oh and he's like that's so they don't hide it they don't hide it and I love it but that's beside the point I'll go on I love seeing you as a mom though Thank you so much. But I think about that a lot. I literally remember where I read that text. That's cute. I was in the parking lot of our CrossFit gym.

And I was like Matt, she, Madison says this is the solution. Let's just do it. I know, I probably just, like, I love when people, like seeing people like, I have kids. I don't know. It's so cute. Same.

Okay, I'm ready for the game, Matt. You ready for the game? Let's play a little game. This is quick, sorry we've been taking so much of your time. This is called who's more likely. And so you guys will be telling us who is more likely to do the thing. Okay. Who's more likely to say we're not doing screens today and then hand over the iPad 10 minutes later?

Hmm, probably me because I'm more like in my head about everything. Like I would like should we not do screens? Oh, maybe it's fine. Maybe we shouldn't do screens today. Maybe it's fine. I will literally tell them. Nope, no screens. Get off. Go outside. Yeah. And he sticks to it. Go outside, go play, go through the ball around, go down the street. And with five kids, it must be easy for them just to like play. Like they just feel like a sport. You have plenty of entertainment right here. Yes. In the backyard every day probably. Yes, yeah. Yeah, you stick to the things you say more. Like, sometimes I'll be like, if you guys, if you guys don't stop, then you're all going to bed early tonight or something. And then they won't stop. I'm like, okay, well, you're going to bed early. And then it'll be like super late and they're still up. Like, I'm like, oh, that's easy to do. That's actually shockingly easy to do. And I think we're just now like learning that. Like those empty threats, you're like, yeah. And the or I hate when I'm like, I have to follow through and I really, this makes my life so much more difficult. Yes. Who's more likely to accidentally post something? then immediately regret it. Me again.

I'm so in my head about everything. Overthinker. I'll post it. Yeah, I overthink. Yeah, I just met with like an energy healer a few weeks ago. And she's like a psychologist person. And she's like, you've got to get out of your head. You are so in your head.

I'm like, I know. I overthinking everything all night. My thoughts are racing. Yesterday, yesterday I did it. We did a giveaway for rhythms, right? And we asked people to do certain things in order to be entered into the giveaway, right? So I did this video where I said, All right, guys, we need you to do what you need to do or whatever.

And she goes, why would you say that? Why would you say that they need to do what you need to do? That doesn't sound nice. I'm like, and so I deleted the whole thing because it's like, if it's going to see it in you. Was it posted already? Yeah, I posted already. Yeah, I make him delete some stuff too. Oops.

Wait, who wears the pants in this relationship? We're equal. We share the pants. Yeah, we both, we both like have our opinions. And sometimes I don't expect him to have to. He didn't have to delete it. Even after you deleted, I was like, no, it's fine. You can leave it up.

I just wanted to express. I didn't tell him to delete it. He deleted it because of what I said. He goes, that's it I'm deleting it. I was like, no, you don't need to. I just was telling you that there's a nicer way to say it. In other words, delete it. It's fine.

I'm good with it. I've had, I'd rather than have you not be like ranking about it all night long about how your husband's so rude or something. Every time we meet an old married couple, they essentially all tell us the same thing. Or at least the old guy does, which is happy wife, happy life. Like without saying that, they essentially say that. And I just think it's so funny. It's like 100% the truth.

When Madison is happy, like our whole world spins. When she's upset, it just like starts. We're all just like angry. Kids are upset. You can tell their difference. When Madison's happy, everything goes wild. Wait, how long have you got? You guys been married a while.

13 years last week. We've been together for 16 years. Yep. See, that's so impressive because you're so young and you're like, we've been together for a long time. He's like, basically the only person I've really been with because I met it when I was like 18. Goodness. Yeah.

You guys have been basically the only people to do. Yeah. Yeah, we met in middle school. We started dating at 17 and 18. Wow. I did have a boyfriend before him, but it wasn't. He was like a four-month thing. Lame.

Five-month thing. Yeah, we're celebrating a decade here in a month. We'll be a decade together. Wow. Our first decade. Our first decade. Yeah. That's great.

Okay. This next one, who's more likely to start a project and never finish it? Uh, uh, that can be made. You haven't been very good at. at calling the guy for the handles upstairs. Yeah, I can say that. Me. He turned off my water, my sink, too.

I mean, technically I could just call the plumber. There's a little drip, a little gasket went out or whatever. I tried to call this guy like three times, right? But I also have ADHD too, so it's hard for me to finish tasks. Are you guys both more type A or type B? Type B for sure. Both of you? Okay, wait, actually, I met with this organizer lady.

That's the only way to have five kids. She was, she was interviewing me and she's like really good at this like type A, type B stuff and I was telling her after talking over an hour she actually basically diagnosed me saying that I am a type A that can't ever that can't really be the true type A because my life is so go with the flow and unorganized. Even evolved that it's like I'm like a type it looks like I'm a type B but I want to be a type A and that's why I'm more particular about things like I want everything to be organized and good but it's but I can't ever like get to that.

Your house looks very clean. Yeah I really like your house love the play set in the back. yard so much greenery you said an energy healer yes i never heard of that what is she she she can feel like you know like chakras i've heard the word so all the different chakras she can feel like if something's off like with your energy she can pull different things out of you she's also a psychic and a medium so she can talk to spirits she talks to spirits yeah she talked to my grandma who passed my other great grandma who passed they came in the room his dad came in does that freak you out as well i loved it i I thought it was so cool.

Like, does the church warn you against talking to a psychic? The church doesn't tell me anything. I'm just my own person. Oh, really? Yeah, that's the thing is like, everyone's like, oh, it's such a cult. No, I'm just my own person 100%. They don't tell me one thing. They don't even know what I'm doing.

I'm just my own person. They're definitely, because I'm common misconceptions about the control of the church. I think that's one thing that perks people's interest. Okay, actually. I just shut up a church on Sunday and say I hide people. There's this, there's a whole conspiracy that influencers in the church are paid by the church. That is not true at all. Fact to that.

I mean, not that I know of. Who knows? But I don't know one person. We've been influenced for a long time. I'm pretty sure I would know. She's like, I received a check. She's like, here's some money. She's been teaching for free every Sunday.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, you're volunteering. Sunbeams. Yeah, I've been volunteering my whole life. I did music time before that. That's so sweet. No paid clergy or no paid position in the church.

No paid. And you also can stop doing your calling if you don't want it. You could expect this isn't working for me. But the church also has. some like investment fund right like isn't there like a lot of money in it I don't know the deep business side of the church but I mean coming from my opinion I actually believe that that would be the smartest way to manage funds is is putting it in fair and growing you know I hear that I also I will say to the church's credit I have

heard that like people that are members if they're like struggling financially that there's like even I know people that get aid for and like pay their groceries or their rent so like if you guys were struggling financially to like pay yeah yes i had groceries the church would pay their rent yeah i think that's what's so great and pull from the infrastructure so strong it's okay and i think a lot of it is kind of like even distributed especially and i don't i don't even question it because i don't even care to be honestly i think some people do care and that's the stuff you see on the internet the people who do care that perk up yeah um but i don't i just don't care because it's always served media

keep an open hand you know yeah open hand to like we pay 10% of our increase to the church right and we've always we've never gone without I just feel like that relationship with with God and the testimony that I have of the law of tithing yeah which is something that a lot of other religions practice is just really just it's it's it's it's being willing to let go and not have this really negative relationship with money. Who's the fun parent between the two of you? Madison is definitely the fun parent. I have my moments, but Madison is so creative.

He likes to do more the outdoor stuff. Like when we go to the beach, he will go in the water through the waves with them and he'll play actual the whole baseball game with them. I will sit on the towel more and do the like the sand castle, more of the chill things. I heard the rule. The person that's birthed the children doesn't have to play in the water.

That's a rule. And I actually feel like we should start inviting by that. But I'm really good to get in the water. I'm really good at coming up with like really random things to do. Like, well, like the kids are like before a bed, I'll like, okay, we're going to play musical books. Like I'll come up with like, I come up with a really random, like almost like I'm a child, like an imaginative play.

I do that with them. It's like fun for me. You're a great mom. So I like imaginative play. You inspire me. I need to be more imaginative. Thank you to Tumble for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. our dog has been peeing and pooping on our rug in our kitchen.

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Please support our show and tell them our show sent you. Who's more likely to get recognized in public and secretly love it? Hmm. We kind of get recognized as a family mostly. Madison, there's a, I always say there's a pecking order in this business, you know?

But when we are all together as a family, that's when we're really, really, really, like, oh my gosh, that's the fish family. I do feel like when girls come up to us and like,

can I take a picture? It's usually when they want to take picture with me or the kids, less. Yeah, no, it's fine. I will take it of us usually. Yeah.

But they sometimes we'll ask, all of us together. Yeah. But I think Kyler's doesn't care as much or he's just like, I'll take it of you guys. I definitely don't care. But also to the end of that question

to secretly love it, I don't necessarily secretly love it. I do think it's really cute that they've watched us. I secretly loved it in the beginning because it was like a, it was like a, what's the word? Like a validation?

A validation for your work. Mm-hmm. That's like it's working maybe? It's like wow, this is super cool. Like I remember the first time it happened, right? The first time it happened was like when the girls were just born. That field trip?

And we showed up and it filled too, school buses full of kids got off and they all ran to us and we were like wow we're like whoa okay they love your channel and like it's cute like they sat there and they watch our channel enough to like all know about our channel

and then they want to take a photo like it was cute the girls became like super super famous super fast because of all the videos that we did with like Jake and Logan and David Doverick because there's no babies like they're all these like adult people making videos all together right

and then all of a sudden like the babies are there sometimes in the background or like with them or they'd wear them on that they strap them to like their chest or we'd be playing with them and so it's just like the only children out of all these adults there yeah so they're very recognizable it was a fun time of life yeah sure that's a crazy time to think about yeah was that like 20 that was like team 10 days 2017 yeah do you guys ever watch the team 10 stuff like Jake Paul stuff not until I watched like a documentary about it afterward oh what I didn't there's a documentary yeah no it was the one with shame Dawson right I watched Shane Dawson.

It was cool. It was like a smart idea. It's basically like you create a group of people that are constantly collaborating with each other. And you're all part of this team together. And you all make content together. Yes. It was like the beginning. It was like even before high pals.

It was like he came up with this idea and it was very smart. I think that's cool. Totally. Who's more likely to hold on to something from five years ago? Yeah. You pointed right at me. There's someone that like wants to throw away stuff and someone that wants to hang on to either of us.

I get over everything really. really fast. I can get over anything that happens within an hour. It's really cool. We're still married because of it. That's impressive too. I feel like with Abby and I will have like a disagreement and then the next day I forgot what it was and then and then she doesn't and then I'm like oh frick I definitely get over stuff too especially with our marriage. I think that's why you're still good. You're taking this a different with other people sometimes I believe they deserve to pay you know. I get to I want them to pay for their mistake, you know, but for my wife, I don't really care.

It's not worth it. You got to move on quick. Love heals everything. Yeah, but some people. No, love heals everything. Okay. Okay, this kind of, that one got kind of carried into the marriage space. So this one leads more naturally, who's more likely to apologize first after a fight? Me. Yeah. I always send, I'm sorry, after like five minutes. She's good at it, yeah, you're good. If he's not here. How long does it take Tyler to say, I'm sorry? Maybe an hour after that. That's a quick turnaround. I'll keep kind of poking my head around and be like, I'm sorry, are you still mad at me?

He's like, Madison, like, I don't know. I'm just thinking about it. And then I'm like five minutes, I'm like, so are you still mad or are we good? Who's more likely to say, wait, we should film this in the middle of a real life moment? Gosh, we're both pretty bad at that now. We used to be like that a long time. ago but I don't think it programmed into your brain just to like film everything we just always had the vlog camera out now that vlog camera collects dust over there on the chair I don't even know if there's even

batteries anymore yeah you guys not work in the show are you been vlogging anything right now or no you're just filming we keep saying every week we'll be at one at some point during the week we're like we should start vlogging again but then we just never do so then what do you do you create content on we do in the moment so stories a lot of stories and if it's a cute if it's cute enough moment that's more than like five seconds that actually seems good enough for real then I'll post it as a real. Yeah. But that's about it. What's keeping you from like doing it?

You don't know or? I think overwhelmed. I feel right now I'm doing a lot of affiliate stuff. So I make 20 or 30 pieces of content a week for different affiliate brands. And then they put UCG like they use it as UCG right. Like they put money behind it. So I'm not posting it. But I give them footage every day.

So I feel like majority of like bulk film for like two hours and then bulk film yeah and then we just posted all these drop boxes and then they pay us percentages So that's where that's what I so yes I'm still trying to film in the mall man stuff but I'm finding that I'm making more money doing these other avenues Doing less brand deals yeah Interesting front facing yeah so I feel like that's what I do when the kids are at school mostly or those kinds of videos Yeah, interesting and are you guys going to mention the beach do you guys go to the beach like every week how often we try to go every week yeah yeah I just love it so much. That's awesome. It's something healing about the beach.

Yeah, to live by the beach is great. I love, I love surfing. Do you guys surf? Do you guys take the kids out? You know? I don't surf as much as I used to. I signed up the girls for surf camp. That's so cool.

Yes. This summer. So they're going to go out with the surfing teacher and got them wetsuits. Remember that time we went on that trip together? And I got knocked out. I got knocked out. I don't know how to surf. I was bleeding everywhere.

That board hit you so hard. It was last year. I need a post. I still need to post. I still need to share that. like nobody my audience has no idea that i got going to the er in nicaragua oh i actually did not know this i had a concussion surfing in nicaragua the board he had it bust his lip the wave got actually like pretty big that day and pretty sure i have a

video of you right as you got out of the water we're like dallon could translate my teeth were loose uh my lip was like my i almost my teeth almost went through my lip wow but yeah the fiberglass board just smacked me in the face so hard that's so sad No, what? Matt just facetimed me like that from Nicaragua. That's crazy. And you just saw that and you probably just, what happened? I was like, how?

I was at a friend's house and I was like, so that's why I don't do surfing. So I don't do like extreme sports things that I get hurt doing. I got screwed up. I'm very like careful. Yeah. That was painful. Matt was messed up for a long time.

Well, Matt's like trying to be a freaking just, he's going out on a wave that's like next to pipeline. I'm going. Yeah, and my boys have his DNA. I'm scared. I think I talked about this. When I was like a lot younger, I used to go out to Venice on days. It was like eight to 12.

And I was like, brand new surfer. And I would go out there. Eight to 12? Yes. Big, big, big days. And just get absolutely obliterated. Oh, yeah. Who's more likely to quit social media first?

Me. Madison. I've had this conversation with him like 20 times. You're like, I'm done. Yeah. I'm thrown in the towel. I would actually kind of be down to be honest. but it is just our life how would you pay your bills uh i would just jump back into like business

more focused business stuff probably but i actually products i genuinely actually really do like social media but when i'm having once a month a pms thing i go very extremes in my thoughts okay yeah okay that makes sense and i'm not yeah that's very self-aware of you yes yeah i do i'll go like all of a sudden i'm just like this whole different person that's like I'm not doing this I don't like this and then all of a sudden the next week I'm like I love this can we do more interviews can we do more videos so I don't know am I bipolar no that actually freaks me out because I don't know why I think like when I'm done having kids I forget that you still have to deal with the period social media just is not as exciting that used to be it's just

not it was so fun back then there was like a fantasy behind behind becoming and now it's like I hate to say it but everybody is famous or something you could be, I always say you could be famous for sucking your thumb tomorrow. Well, I think it's, I think it's really fun in the moment when your content is getting seen and it's exploding. Like, if you're in the growth stage, any growth stage of anything is so cool. Yeah, because like you said, you even, you even mentioned how it was fun when that, you know, the two school buses of kids came up and said hi to you guys.

Yeah, it was like different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know for us, you know, back in 2020 when that first started happening, I was just like,

this is my dream come true it was like yeah I don't think I've ever seen anybody blow up faster than you guys though really never you're kidding I've never I don't think I've ever seen anybody well except for Jake Paul like you guys grew faster than anybody I've ever seen I don't think anybody's done as much

okay maybe the royalty family was a lot like you guys too but they also had been doing skits for a long time okay but there are very few people that have grown or have have I don't think I've ever seen it we grew pretty fast in 2050 wait right the first two years of doing it and then i feel like it kind of set it out 17 18 and 19 was our growth years and then and then you guys did a really good job with all your stuff and you it's been

different so i think what probably helps is like you you started off maybe doing stuff with just the two of you and then you started doing you know youtube and then podcasts right and so you change it up for us what's kept us going is changing it up every once in a while you know i couldn't just do vlogs forever i think this show is making me more excited again to do social media change just change like just different things. I don't like to do the same thing for so long. I agree. It's boring. Yeah. So for me, if you would ask right now if I don't quit, I would say no, because I'm excited to see where the show's going. Like, I'm excited to go on this trip right now and get to know these girls and I'm excited for you guys. It's just fun. It's just fun. I don't know. Yeah. I could challenge myself and try

new things. And I feel like it's if it seems like this show is more focused on the moms, like it's maybe like an individual venture for the first time in like a decent amount. And And also no kids, to be honest. It's really cool because our kids have always been a big part of our story. Any final like Mormon fun facts? Oh, have you guys ever tried coffee ever? Oh, I thought you were going to ask us before. You've taken a sip of coffee.

Yeah. What was it like? What was your experience? I think coffee tastes good. Yeah. Do you like to taste or smell more? I don't need to drink it though. Like I have my other drinks that I do, you know?

Do you know what the word of wisdom is all about just kind of like addictive substances. Yeah, yeah. If you can't live without it, it's probably not best. I got out of my coffee. It's the truth. Like, it's the truth. It's the same thing with energy drinks. Anything, it hasn't been listed as, like an energy drink hasn't been listed as something

that's against the word of wisdom, but it is. Do you think Brigham Young would be okay with Red Bull if he was around? Probably not. Or soda. Do you guys, do you guys, are you guys energy drinking people? I drink out of Red Bull every single day. I think it was a way for somebody back in the day. Mike drop.

I think it was away for back in the day somebody to put out something about health. He's had too many Red Bulls. Right? How to take everybody. Like, don't do tobacco. Actually, I would, dude. I'm so tired. I've been, like, I feel bad.

I've been yawning. Like, I did not sleep much last night. My mic is coffee. I think it's about moderation. Being healthy. The mic is in front of Abby's face. That's fine. That's the best shot of me that we've had this episode.

Was trying coffee like a one-time thing, or was that something that you drink for a while? No, what I used to get, like, frappuccino's and stuff, like, mocha frepettinos. And what, like, was your family freaking out? Like, you're breaking the word of wisdom. No. Really? No. I feel like...

Thanks, homie. I'm like, I wasn't like trying to be like super addicted to anything, you know? Ah, yeah. Yeah. I'm ready to be addicted to something, to be honest. I actually have any addiction. I'll be honest. I'm not gonna tell my kids like, oh, it's bad to drink coffee, you know? I don't think that's bad.

I don't think that's about. Like some of my siblings aren't LDS and they drink coffee and my brothers and my all of my friends. So, like, it's not bad to drink coffee. For me, I just think I don't need to drink. it. I'm fine without it. So why even, I don't know. I love that we're ending the episode on this. Coffee. I think energy drinks. In my opinion, if you everyone ask me, I think energy drinks are way worse. This is way worse for you than coffee. This is breaking the word of wisdom, everyone. I think that I do the, like, Mormon soda thing. No, I don't like sodas even. The whole swig

thing? Oh, I'm down. I just go. I just drink water. There's swag in our area. I fill up my drink with water. I just drink. I thought you didn't drink water. Well, that's what I drink if I'm drinking something. You just don't drink anything. I don't drink stuff all there. These are literally so bad for you, actually. Yeah, I was going to say, I was hoping it was the sugar-free one. I will drink energy drinks. I do drink some energy drinks, though.

I do drink some energy drinks, though. Like, if I'm feeling tired. That's okay. I'll drink my trim fit or an energy drink. I'll go out and get drinks in the garage. But I don't really, like, go out and get drinks, really. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what time of day that's going to fit in my schedule to go get a drink. Yeah.

So I don't do the Mormon soda stuff either. You guys should get, like, energy drinks that match your little color here. That would be sick, actually. I was thinking how cool it is. Genius. Unplanned. Do you guys do like little sponsored things? Like where you have a little

all the podcast commercial in the center? Yeah. Probably. I do. I wasn't aware that we had that rule. Well, we don't have like actual rules, but. We don't have rules.

We'll drink whatever. You guys feel like I kind of like how we are. We're just, yeah, right. Yeah. Well, you guys. Sponsors. No, I'm just kidding.

This has been such a fun conversation. I know Abby and I are so excited to watch Secret Lives and Mormon Wives, Orange County. Can I say if I watch it, will be the first episode of Secret Lives I've ever seen. Oh, that's fine. I'll watch it for you.

Nope. That's okay. Not everyone in the world has to watch everything. No, it's not bad to say. It's okay. No, it's not bad. It just makes it feel like our show is not going to do that good. No, it's fine.

I can watch yours. Did you want to know something about me? I've never watched the Kardashians. Really? Never seen it. I think I've watched half of an episode. I don't even know what some of the, who they're married to or with their kids.

No, I get confused as well. I'm like, here's my real thing. Reality TV and me, uh, well, I just watch, we just watch things together and neither one of us is like really plug in for it so we just watch

like Breaking Bad Oh we love Breaking Bad. Yes we love the yeah We've watched all those We've been watching recently. Yeah we like more actiony stuff Yeah we like people getting like shut down I will commit myself to episode one

Because I'm so curious about And even if you didn't it doesn't matter I will watch episode one with you And we're along because I know at the same time as you We can do a watch party together Kyler and I both have to be really bad. But make sure to watch their show. Go check out their social medias.

They're Kyler Stephen Fisher, Madison Fisher. The Fish Fam, whatever. The Fish Fam, wherever you want to follow them, YouTube, Instagram. And Kyler, your app is called Rhythms. Rhythms. You want to go download Rhythums. That's the way you can support Kyler and Madison. But guys, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Thanks, Matt. How's good again after the show air. So I'm excited to take a look. Thank you. Yeah, this is fun, you guys. I'm happy to be on your podcast. I love you guys. Yeah, this is great guys.

This has been fun. We're gonna come back. Let's do it. Once the show airs, we're coming back. We'll hold you to it. Okay.