The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby - The debt trap, combining finances & why you shouldn’t rent w/ Rachel Cruze

Episode Date: September 3, 2025

Rachel Cruze, best-selling author and daughter of Dave Ramsey, joins Matt & Abby to spill money tips every couple needs to hear. From combining finances and crushing debt to car payments, renting, and teaching kids about money, this episode is packed with practical advice you can use today. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp, Google Gemini, Nutrafol & Hiya. BetterHelp: Visit https://BetterHelp.com/unplannedpodcast today to get 10% off your first month. Google Gemini: Visit https://gemini.google/students to learn more and sign up. Terms apply. Nutrafol: Visit https://nutrafol.com and enter promo code UNPLANNEDPOD for $10 off any order and free shipping when you subscribe. Hiya: Go to https://hiyahealth.com/UNPLANNED and receive 50% off your first order. Chapters: 00:00 - Rachel Cruze 02:27 - How Dave Ramsey raised his kids 04:47 - What it's like to have Dave Ramsey as a father 06:40 - Asking my husband to get rid of his credit card 11:56 - Why married couples should combine finances 15:47 - Why married couples shouldn't combine finances 17:30 - What you should do if your spouses spending is out of control 22:51 - The number one thing keeping you broke 26:16 - The car payment trap explained 40:49 - How to have a money conversation with your kid 45:52 - How Dave Ramsey recommends you buy a house 49:08 - Why you shouldn't rent a home 53:38 - Why Dave Ramsey's formula to getting rich works Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Don't do it. People are throwing away their retirement for it. It's just not worth it because it's a... What is the controversy behind combining finances? It's radical to say in today's world that when you get married, you're one. I mean, what is the stat? Like half of marriages into divorce? We'll hear this lot with husbands and wives.

I'm like, I can't leave you spent that much. And it's like, well, then you go to the store and try to get a week's worth of groceries. That's the thing with debt. You're paying banks. You're paying other people versus yourself. You could be using that money for you. Don't make other people rich. Make yourself rich.

on planned. We sat down with Rachel Cruz. She's a number one New York Times best-selling author, personal finance expert, and just so happens to be the daughter of Dave Ramsey. We talk about why you should combine your finances, why you should pay cash for your car, and the number one thing that's keeping Americans broke all on today's episode. Something funny Abby mentioned yesterday was like, you know, we should ask Rachel her credit score. And I'm like, babe, I don't think you realize this. Rachel doesn't use credit cards. I know. I've never had dead. No, I said we should talk about thing is to get your credit score up and then Matt's like, they don't have credit.

I was like, that's right. That's right. That is the funny thing about like Ramsey's like our take on stuff. It is so it's pretty countercultural. There's some things we say that from a financial perspective that a lot of financial like influencers agree with. Like majority of people would say like having a car loans mathematically stupid. Like a lot of financial people would say that

because it's a depreciating asset. But there's other controversial things that we have a takes on like no debt. Like, no debt at all. And if you have to buy a house, the house is the one part. That's what I was curious. Yes, that we would say, it's okay. Yeah, but we have parameters around the mortgage that you should take out.

And you can get a house without a credit score by doing manual underwriting. So you can still get a mortgage without a credit score. Combining bank accounts when you're married is like really controversial. Yeah, so there's a couple of takes that we have as Ramsey that kind of goes against, I feel like all financial people out there. I'm sure we'll dive into some of those. I was like, wait, Matt, you're telling me she pays cash for her morning coffee, like, literally everything.

But you probably also have debit card, right? Yes, yes, yeah. Okay. I'll pay debit card. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's like, but it's out of a checking account. So, like, it's my money. It's directly going out that I'm using, yeah.

I did want to ask, isn't there a famous story about how your dad took you to a carnival when you were a kid and then gave you a budget for, like, your spending and then you spent it all? Like, Abby's told me this story. Like, she had heard this story from, like, her grandma. Oh, so funny. Just how to train your kid. on finances. Could you give us a little rundown of that story? So the whole thing was that we,

because as kids, we were never given an allowance. We always were on commission. So you work, you get paid, you don't work, you don't get paid. So we did chores around the house. You get money. And I'm the spender of the kids. I have an older sister, younger brother. And they both tend to be kind of more savers naturally, where I'm like, I'm such a spender and still am to this day. I just enjoy spending money. And so we went to Opry Land, which is a throwback for Nashville. So Nashville, there was a theme park called Opera Land. It's shut down now. But we went to And they had like all those old carnival games. Like it was an amusement park, but they had like, you know, you could like play all these

games. And so mom and dad were like, yeah, if you want to play the games, you got to bring your money. And I'm probably six at the time. I don't know how old I was. That probably that young. So I walked in and it was like the first little carnival game that I saw. You like shoot water at this thing, you know, and I like put my dollar down and I didn't do it.

I was like an addict gambling in Vegas. And I was like, do it again. Do it again. And I spent all my like eight dollars or whatever it was. done like in one game like the very first game and I remember I looked around I was like I need more money I need more money and mom and dad were like no you spent all your money and I was like no but I need more money I need to win I need to win this game and they're like no and I'm like what am I to do the rest of the day they're like we don't know baby like watch

everybody else that's yeah I mean you you like you know the rules like you did it so it was called careless at the carnival was the kids spoke that they like wrote about it but yeah but it was like it was a pretty it's funny because mom and dad they were like they weren't very legalistic parents yeah but they had moments like that that they were like, they drew a line of the sands and they're like, we're not budging. Like you've got to learn this. You got to feel these emotions of what it feels like to stop when you don't have money. You got to stop because if you don't, as an adult, you can go down the avenue of debt.

You can still get more money even though you don't have money, right? So it was like this concept of when you're out of money, you're out of money. So we got to go work and make more money. That's how you live. That's how life is. So it was little, yeah, little stories like that as Dave Ramsey's daughter of that for sure. I remember in fourth grade, my parents wanted me to wear a skateboard helmet when I skateboard it and I really didn't want to. We like got into this big altercation and I wonder like in the

same way like was was there ever something where you're like man I I think I want to like go get a credit card for this or just just to say hey I'm my own individual I'm you know I'm 18 now and I can be my own person totally you know I mean I think probably in college like when I was in college is when they had like credit cards were all around and you would get like a free pizza free t-shirt and like There were tables everywhere all over campus that you could, like, sign up for these credit cards. And I felt like a lot of my friends were doing it, and I was like, and I just remember thinking, like, it's not that big of a deal, y'all. Like, it's not that big of a deal. I remember mentioning it on the phone, like, one night to my parents.

I was like, yeah, I just thought about signing up for a credit card. My dad was like, don't you dare. But they weren't like, it didn't feel rebellious because, again, I think their parenting was so brilliant in the sense that they weren't overly legalistic about it. Like, we made mistakes, like, I don't know, we just, we spent money on stupid stuff. I mean, like, the carnival's one example, but they weren't, like, overly controlling with our money, even as teenagers. Like, they really let us kind of, like, figure it out. And I think because of it, it didn't feel like this crazy hard line. Even though I knew there was a line, I didn't have this need to be like, oh, I should, I want to pass this line.

I don't know, being rebellious and, like, signing up for credit card's pretty funny. Like, I think usually people are, like, doing drugs or something like that. Their rebellion would be something like that. This is crazy. Yeah, this would be crazy. Yeah. When your husband met your dad, was there ever, like, a conversation? of, hey, like, how much debt do you have? Do you have any debt? Do you have a credit card? Was that, like,

something that was ever discussed? No. No. No, not at all. Yeah. And Winston hadn't even heard of my dad when we started dating. We've been married 15 years and we dated for, I guess, maybe two years. So, I mean, this was 17 years ago. Yeah, and he had never heard of my dad. And one of his friends was like, dude, do you know who Rachel's dad is? And he's like, Dave Ramsey. And Winston was like, my dad's Buddy Cruz. Like, I don't get it. Like, what do you mean? Like, he's a financial guy. You know, all this stuff. But it's funny because Winston, from a natural personality perspective, leans more like Ramsey principles than I even do. Like he is like naturally a saver, very much a nerd,

loves like spreadsheets and figuring out like we could save this and this and then get this. And he does some real estate flips. So he's like, do crunching number. He's just like a, he's a numbers guy and all of it. So he had a credit card, though, when we were dating. I mean, the first couple of dates for sure were paid with like his Capital One credit card. And I were thinking that was funny. I was like, this is so funny.

I don't know why. That is funny. Yeah, and as we were dating, I mean, we were sophomores in college, so we were like, I mean, we were just kind of having fun. And then as it got more serious, to be like, oh, my gosh, you really could be like the one. Then other conversations really started to emerge, as they do when you're seriously dating. I mean, everything from family to, you know, spiritual life to money came up, all of this. And I mean, and I think at that point, by then he knew where I stood and all of it.

But to him, it made sense. Like, he was like, he had a credit card to build his credit score. You know, he was like, I don't know, because I just. I just feel like you just need a credit score. But when you learn a totally different way of money, he was like, oh, well, yeah, we don't eat it. That's fine. So it wasn't this big, like, dramatic thing.

And I think the gift in it is that we were still young. Like, you know, we were 20 years old, 21. If we were 35, I feel like it could be harder. Like when people combine finances because they get married later in life, I think that is way more difficult because you're so set in your ways. Where we were college students, you know what I mean? Like there was like this like, not that it was overly flip it, but it was like, I don't know, probably more.

We had less baggage, I guess, about real work. things because we were like still growing up together which was great and when did you guys decide the combined finances was that before you got married after you got married we actually opened up one checking accounts for like our wedding budgets I remember like a just like he had his checking out I had mine and we got one together when we were engaged that we put all of like our wedding funds in so as we were spending money it was coming out of this checking account and then we ended up I think probably like after the honeymoon I mean soon after just closing down our two checking accounts and just merging into that one that we had opened did he get rid of

credit card at that time too or did he hold on to it yeah no he got rid of it yeah i think even before we i think even like when we were engaged yeah no way yeah so he was like oh yeah that's great no big deal that's funny that's really funny i know i know okay so we combine our finances before we were married yeah probably not the best idea that was a really weird idea we don't engaged or dating or we weren't even engaged we yeah we were just two broke college kids trying to buy a car together so we could work like a job at a pizza restaurant. Like we need a job, but we can only afford one car. Because we wanted to get married.

We wanted to get married. Which because I wanted to get married to Abby. That was a really bad idea in hindsight. It worked out great. Yeah, yeah, right, right, right. We don't recommend that. Yeah, totally. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Are you depressed? Because chances are you could probably go see a therapist. But the thing is, as people,

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As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash unplanned podcast. That's BetterH-E-L-P-L-P-com slash unplanned podcast. What is the controversy behind people getting on you on social media about combining finances? Like, why does that topic get people riled up? Yes. It's such emotion. It's like the number one hate that I get. Really? Oh, yes. It's so funny. I laugh. It's the sounds kind of manipulative. I hate to even say it. But if it's like a low week on social, the girl that helps me, she's like, just throw up like a combined checking accounts. It'll spike. I know. I know. Fine.

But whatever. It's like our number one hot button. We can just put out there flippantly and people just like freak out. I think, I mean, I think a lot of it's driven by fear. In our world today with marriage, sadly, I think so many, you know, I mean, what is the stat? Like half of marriages into divorce. There is something to be said. I think a lot of pain and a lot of fear comes when you're talking about, hey, I'm combining this one area of my life that I have control over. And if I have to get out of the situation, it's like the resources that I need to get out are here for me. If I relinquish those and I give up all control, I don't know what's going to happen. Is everything going to be okay? And if something bad happens, I don't have a way out. Like, I think that there's

like a level to that that's very real for people. There's that level. I think there's a lot of like individualism that people still have where they're like, this is my money. I worked for this. This is my house. It's mine over here. I've done. this, you're just now coming into my life, you don't get that part of my life because this is what I've built. There's a level of that. Sometimes I think just ignorance, I don't think people even really think about it, maybe. But I think the emotion comes from a lot of fear. And I think that individualism could be a level of that fear too. It's radical to say in today's world that when you get married, you're one in every part of your life. In your money, when you're raising

kids. I'm like, that's why you choose to get married is to do life with someone, right? To lock arms and be like, I'm going to walk this life with you. And when we do that, I think it comes at a really deep cost, meaning that you really do become what. You're still yourself. Like, I'm still a spender. Winston's still a saver. Like, I mean, you're still who you are. But from the depths of these places that feel very vulnerable that I want to control, when you give that up to the other person, I think it's a level of risk. But in the same way, not that Winston, I have a perfect marriage by any means. But when you do that, you have a level of depth and intimacy with this person that you're combining so much more than just money with. You're combining your life. And you're

fears and your dreams like all of this is becoming one and people i think are just scared to do that so to say to do that when you're married the fact that that's controversial i'm like oh man are we missing this element of marriage in our world you know that people aren't that aren't going to experience because they're holding one part of themselves back yeah maybe it's like not a money thought like field of thought issue like it's a marriage issue exactly yes and abby it's amazing like the calls that we get on the ramsie show especially that it's like money fights money problems conflict and marriage it's like one of the top calls we always get i mean like it's just is a it's a tension point in marriage for so many people and i promise you 90% of them it's a

marriage issue to your point it's not a money issue and that's what we always say like it comes out as a money issue but it's lack of communication lack of respect like whatever the situation is more is about marriage your marriage you're seeing the holes in your marriage it's coming out as money but there's a relational deficit there and when you start poking on that then you're like oh my gosh it's much deeper than money. It's like we don't have the same vision for the future, but like it comes out and like you're spending money carelessly. That's right. That's right. Is there ever a situation though where having separate accounts would make sense, maybe in the situation of somebody that has a gambling problem, an addiction,

and they're literally, you know, plunging themselves into debt and you don't want them to affect your credit score and, you know, potentially, I've heard there's even people that have taken out loans under their kids or damage their kids debt. because the gambling problem got so bad or their addiction got so bad, would that be a situation where you would want to separate your finances just for the safety of your own family? 100%. Yes. And I'm so glad you said that because I usually say this with a caveat. If there is abuse, addiction, neglect, I mean, anything in that, you have to protect yourself if you're in a situation. And sadly, like, we get those calls of people that, like, literally their retirement account is drained

because their spouse secretly took all of their money and did X, Y, and Z with it. It could be anything. We got a call last week with a crypto scam. This lady, and she's 74. They had $560,000 gone. So her and her husband are back to work now. I mean, all of it. And I'm like, oh. So there is definitely the caveat. And I think it's important to say, because I think some people are in situations that they may need out, right? That might be a reality for them. So for them to have the resources to be able to do it. Yes. But to even compare that to marriage too. Like someone going and spending money carelessly or like secretively is literally infidelity, just a different type. So it still also has that same parallel to marriage and finances. Yeah, 100%. Well, you don't get the same, you know, level of, I don't know, like extension of trust that you should have with your spouse if you've, you know,

if you've broken it. Yeah. Yes, yes. Yeah, financial infidelity. It's like a, it is a real thing. And to your point, people say that it almost can feel like an affair. Like if there you have this completely separate secret life that you had no clue about that, yes, the amount of trust that's broken in that, that's broken.

So we have to rebuild that. And the prayer is that, you know, there's restoration and redemption in that story. But until then, I can't trust you with these resources. I can't trust you to share an account with me because I don't know what you're doing. So in that sense, yeah, in that sense, separating it out. And it's funny, too, because I'm like, I know people flippantly are like, Instagram always jokes about like, oh, I hid the Target bags or like, I don't want him to see the Amazon box. You know, and there's like flippant things that's like kind of funny and furious.

But obviously, like the more serious thing. But I would ask someone, like, if you really feel like you have to hide a purchase, genuinely even if it's just like a target thing why like what is that like where and again not that it may it may not be anything but it could start to become a root of something later on and so I don't know addressing those kind of emotions and feelings with money especially when it's against your spouse kind of when you when you bump up against it I don't know it's just good questions to ask I imagine sometimes those things go hand in hand too though like if you're willing to like secretly spend money like are you willing to secretly have another relationship of some kind like I imagine sometimes they go

hand-hand, obviously not always. Yeah, because it's a character flaw. I mean, at that point, you're talking about someone's character, right? And where are the bounds there? We don't know. So to your point, I mean, yeah, who knows? But for other couples, just like, run in the middle kind of couples out there, you know, just doing life, like, but they just want to avoid conflict. They want to avoid the fighting. So they're like, oh, or I just want this thing over here. I'm going to just separate it. I would challenge them. No, combine it. When it comes to your typical relationship, though, one without any of the gambling addictions or things like that, what should somebody do if they are married to a spendy spouse? I feel like everyone has probably been in a

situation before where they're like, man, I just notice all these target purchases. What the heck? And it's funny because everyone, I think, can rationalize their own spending, right? Because I'm sure their spouse is saying the same thing about them. What should somebody do if they're in that situation? I would say as a couple when you're married and if there's one spouse that continues to kind of like push the line and spend, obviously sit down and have a conversation. And what I've learned, And Dr. John Deloni actually talks about this, which I love because he said, when you're ever in a conflict situation, never use you, never say like, well, you're spending, it's your target bag, you do you. Talk about you.

It's like, hey, I'm feeling like really nervous. I'm scared that, number one, like, you're continuing to spend and I don't feel like you have a boundary at all and you're just spending on emotion. And like, that makes me nervous. I'm starting to get fearful in that. Or, hey, we set a budget and we said we are going to spend X, Y, Z, and you keep breaking that. and I'm starting to feel I don't know if I can trust you

like a level of like disrespect like are you I don't feel taking care of because this is happening right so like as much as you can talking about what's going on within you and I would say sometimes the spouse we get you know that's like oh my gosh they're such a big spender

da da da da da sometimes they're the problem sometimes they're over controlling and it's like you have no idea what it costs to go to the grocery store right like we'll hear this lot with husbands and wives and husband's like I can't believe you spent that much and it's like well then you go to the store and see how much

much everything costs and try to get a week's worth of groceries like sometimes that spouse that's such a saver and such more like wants the control sometimes not always they're the issue so it's it's either or right but i think we have to address both because i think the spenders kind of get the maybe because i'm a spender and i'm defensive as spender is you know they kind of get a bad rap and sometimes people are out of control with spending and so you got to get to the root of that and figuring out what's really going on there but also we see with savers like there are some people man they will get out of debt they're investing and saving and they will not spend money and they end up hoarding it they end up holding it and to me like that's as much of an idol as the person that's going and like carelessly spending on this other

end of you cannot have this much control of it it's going to it's going to suffocate your life you know so both ends of the spectrum are really important to address but if there is one spouse that's just completely out of control I think number one having that conversation number two seeing if they would sit down and do a plan to be like hey let's talk about where our money's going like take our income and we're going to plan out. Here's what we're going to spend on food this month. Here's what we're going to spend on clothes. Here's what our mortgage or rent costs. Like actually have a plan with your income and sometimes that shores it up. When there's not a plan, it can be easy just to be like, oh yeah, sure, I'll just do this, this and this. But when you know where your money's going,

sometimes that does kind of give some boundaries and guardrails. And if you both agree on it, then you both agree on it. But if that doesn't work, then I would always bring in like a third party, a counselor or a therapist, because it is a hot button issue in marriage so much so that it can cause divorce within relationships. And so you don't want it to become this thing where you almost resent your spouse because of it. So you want to make sure you kind of get to the root of what's going on. This episode is brought to you by Google Gemini. College students, do you know you can turn the most complex topics into simplified ideas or hours of research into just minutes? How about turning class notes into practice quizzes that help you get the big

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Google Gemini's pro plan free for one year. Sign up by October 6 to get free access to Gemini 2.5 Pro. Unlimited image uploads, deep research, notebook LM, two terabytes of storage and more. Visit Gemini.com slash students to learn more and sign up. Terms apply. Can we talk a bit about new car purchases? The idea behind buying a car, at least from the Ramsey standpoint, is buy a used car. If you want to go nicer, it gets me that's two, three years old. You're not getting hit with the depreciation that you get hit with if you buy a new car and drive it off the lot, right? Yes.

When we bought a new car, because of the market, because of, I guess, the chip shortage, the price of the cars that were like two, three years old was essentially the same price as the brand new ones. Totally. So we bought a brand new one. Then, of course, you know, a year or two later, I go on Kelly Blue Book. I type in our VIN. I look up everything.

And I just saw the most, the craziest depreciation. I can bring it all every day. He's like, I cannot believe. Like literally our brand new car, give it a year or two. It's like down like $10,000. And I'm just like, oh, like it just hurts, right? Yeah. What are people supposed to do in 2025 if they want to afford, you know, to get a car on the nicer end?

Number one, once you have a million dollar net worth, we say you can buy a brand new car. So that's kind of where you can hit. Okay. You can take the depreciation. It's not going to financially hit you as bad. So when you have a million dollar net worth, you can get a new car. That's great. Number two, yeah, I mean, for car purchases, saving up and paying cash for a car.

And 99.9% of the time, you're going to get a cheaper price with a used car. You know, if you go and get a five-year-old car, Honda Civic, it's going to be cheaper than going and buying a brand new one. You know, so I think it's just the way to go. I mean, honestly, especially people who are struggling financially because we see so much of people's financial life, the number one thing that keeps them average are car payments. because you look to see if you invested a car payment, you guys, and the average car payment now for a new car is close to $700 a month. And if you had two of those within a family, it's $1,400 going to the bank,

going to the car dealership and not going to you, versus if you had invested that, I like want to pull up my investing calculator right now. And be all nerdy. And be all nerdy. He does it's all the time. It is. I'm like, and it's terrible.

And again, because it's not a home, right? If you pay that in a mortgage, your home over time is going to go up in value. as we've seen. But it's a thing that I'm like, it just sucks. And the thing is too, like our cars have become a status symbol. It's become our value. Like when you drive a car, people see your car and automatically make judgments about you. And we have taken that on and I'm like, man, like it is and I hate it. Because I'm like, it's for like two minutes or two seconds at a stoplight, right? That you feel really great. And that's it. Or for your friends or whatever. And I'm like, what are we

chasing here? Like, what are we doing? And we're throwing away, honestly, a retirement. Like, Like people are throwing away their retirement for it. And it's just not worth it because it's a car. I'm like, it's literally supposed to get you from point A to point B. But yet we are all wrapped up in it as Americans, right, of so much of our lives. And from a financial perspective, it's like the one thing that I'm like, don't do it. Like some people are like, I do credit cards to get the airline mother, whatever, whatever. And you're like, okay, whatever, whatever.

I don't like it. But I get it. The car payment is still the one that I'm like, don't do it. Don't do it. It's not worth it. Not worth it financially. They know how to get all the moms. though I know they're like this is the safest car like this and it's like okay well what mom's

gonna be like well I don't want my kids to be in an unsafe vehicle like if they know how to get you oh they prey on the fear yes 100 percent a hundred percent yeah well I have a friend that was talking to me about their car situation because they just had a new baby and they were wanting to get a bigger vehicle something that could you know fit multiple kids but the car they had was not only one that would be able to hold multiple kids. It was only two rows, but it could hold the two kids they're going to have. They had a car payment. They were about to have it paid off. And talking to this situation made me so sad because what they ended up doing was taking on a car payment to get a brand new vehicle with three rows. How do you have that conversation with your spouse if like one

spouse is wanting to not take on a car payment and the other one is like, I want the car that can fit our children, but not only that, it needs to be the brand new one. It can't be one. It can't be one. that's three or four years old, it needs to be the brand new one. I mean, I would ask why, what is it in you that has to have the brand new one? Because it's not safety. I mean, like, we were laughing about it, but I'm like, but genuinely, like, other cars that are two, three years old, those are safe. Like, what is it?

Is it the smell? Probably not. Like, it's great. We love a new car smell, but we can buy spray and, like, fix that, right? There's like an, I would say there's probably an ego play happening there, in my opinion. If you have to have the brand new thing, I would question like, okay, so what's going on in you that's causing that. What insecurity is happening? Like, what, what is that about you? And if that's the spouse, I would guarantee that there's probably other areas of their life that they really care

what people think about them. Yeah. So I think, again, it kind of comes to like a character, identity person issue. And it comes out with wanting to buy a brand new car. But there's a lot wrapped up there. That's such a tough topic. But I will say from a from your friend's perspective, that's how they get you, though, because a lot of people live in payment mindsets. Yeah. So when the payments almost done, you get a new car to get a new payment. Well, it's like you can afford the payment. It's this, like it's this, right? That's exactly what. That's 100% it. Because so there's that cycle that is very real. What he was telling me was, you know, this brand new one, the pull from his spouse was it was only going to be $100 more, you know, to get to get it. And so now they're in, they took

on the debt to have the car. But yeah, their payment just went up a little bit. Yeah. And they can technically afford the payment. Can I tell you that's what average people say. When we went to go buy a car, cash three years ago, the dealership ended up talking us into financing it because they almost want you to do that now. They make more money. They wouldn't even, like, I was like, can we, can we talk for, I was trying to like negotiate. Yeah. And they would not budge. No. Paying full cash wasn't going to work. And so we ended up to build Abby's credit score, ended up having the car loan under her for a year. And then we paid it off. It did actually work, but it's paid off now. There you go. Credit score did go up. No, they don't want you. And they don't negotiate a dealership. So you can

negotiate cash for a car with an individual. So if someone's trying to get out of debt and they're like, I have this $800 car payment, $600 car payment, and I want out of this, then you have to look at selling the car. And sometimes if you bought a brand new car, what you can sell it for, you're underwater. Like you bought it for $40,000, but it's only worth $32,000. So you're like, I have an $8,000 difference. So in that case, I would say you go get an $8,000 or a $13,000 loan from the bank and go get a $5,000 car, pay off the car, get rid of it, and pay off that smaller loan and work your way out. Because a lot of people get stuck in the system and they want out, right? And so that's a big thing. But to your point, though, buying from an individual, you can

negotiate and bargain with cash because they will. A dealership will not because they don't make as much money. They want you to finance because they're going to make so much more money off of you. What killed me, too, about my friend's situation is if they would have just paid the like thousand bucks left on their old car owned it completely outright they could have sold it used that cash to then buy maybe a van or something that was three four years old sure and they would have owned it and you're paying someone else that's the thing with debt is like you end up paying other people you're paying banks you're paying other people versus yourself like you could be using that money for you in your future like use your money and your income that you work so hard for for you don't make other people rich like

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When you are tied to payments, there is a level of bondage that you're in. But you have to pay these payments every month. You have to go to a job you hate to make these payments. You have to do these things because of this lifestyle that you've built up. And it keeps you trapped. You don't have autonomy over your money. Your income that comes in and hits your account. It's already spent for you.

It's done. Yeah, it's done. And it has other people on it. Like other people get your income. And you're like, no. And there's something, again, really spiritual and emotional about that. And when people are free financially, you have choices. You have options in life.

Like, you're not stuck. You're able to do things. And so there's something about that, too, that a lot of people from a financial perspective don't talk about. They just look at the numbers. Yeah. But there's a real spiritual, emotional side. to this, the people that are debt-free and live with no bank in their life telling them what to do,

that level of autonomy is so rare today, and it's beautiful. It's amazing. I know a lot of our audience is, like, new parents are thinking of, like, starting a family. And I know a big discussion among couples when, like, they're starting to, you know, do family planning is, okay, like, is one of us going to stay home with the kids? Are we going to go down to one income, basically? I kind of just want to start talking about that topic and, like, how a couple can make that shift from two incomes to one. How do you even start going about that or see if it's even an option for you guys?

You have to figure out first and foremost what your expenses are. And there's a lot of people that, you know, they don't even know really what they're spending a month. And so you have to sit down and say, okay, let's look at our lifestyle as it is today. What are we spending? And again, listing out all the categories that you spend money on and looking at your income. And then to say,

okay, if we cut this in half, what does that mean? Can we live on this? Realistically, can we live on this. And the hard thing is, is, you know, and today is so expensive. I'm like, where we live today, I'm like, things are, it's just a lot. And so the dual income conversation is very real because a lot of couples build their lives, not to go back to our car, but to our point, but to our point that like, we're going to just do exactly what we can afford with two incomes. And even if that includes debt, all of this, like we're going to live our lifestyle with these two incomes. And a lot of people don't have a lot of, they don't have a lot of margin. They

literally are living right up to this paycheck to paycheck cycle. And so for a lot of couples, when they remove one income, they're like, we can't afford our life. So you either have to choose, and it's a values question, there's not a right or wrong, that it is so much worth it for us to have a stay at home parent that we will cut our lifestyle. We will sell the cars. We'll move to a smaller home, maybe to a different town. Like we will make our lifestyle work because this value of having a parent at home, it's so worth it for us. It's what we want, right? And so you can do that. A hundred percent people do that. Or you say, gosh, that would be so stressful. We, would rather have the margin financially so that we can do things with the family. So, you know,

we can use money in our lives to have these experiences and do these things. So we're going to choose to, you know, work dual income together. So yeah, it's just a values conversation to look. But at first, you have to know what you're spending and how much your lifestyle is costing you per month to know mathematically if you can do it. Yeah, I like how you said that too, because I think sometimes it's easy to, like how you said, it's just a values question. Like some people say it's not worth it for us. Like maybe we do both want to like still have our incomes because I do think so much of this discussion can get tied up in like your expectations that you place on yourself but also what like culture and society is placing on you. It's like how could you dare make this trade off

both ways how that goes. And so yeah. And from the you know from the woman's perspective too, I can only speak from that because I'm a woman. So I don't know how the dude feels. But you know, I enjoy my job. Like I really, it gives me life. I enjoy it. It is so fun. It is so fun. Like there's, I want, I wanted to kind of keep working. I've pulled back my schedule some after having three kids, but I enjoy it. So for me, the value is what I feel like part of, you know, not only what I enjoy, but what I feel like I'm called to in life. Like there's something about that that's bigger for me than just the job.

And that's important to me. And so there's that. So some women work because they just love it. They really enjoy what they're doing. So that's a values, you know, element. It may not just be the financial side. But then also on that end, there's work. working women that judge the stay-at-home mom because they're like, oh my gosh, you've built up

this whole career. How could you just throw it away, you know, for kids? And I'm like, being a stay-at-home mom is, I think one of the most selfless, incredible jobs anyone could have at being a stay-at-home parent. I mean, genuinely, I think it's, I think it is incredible. And so for working moms to judge the stay-at-home mom, no, stop. No. She's like, I don't know. So it's at both ends. But to your point, you can't win. You can't win. There's always going to be people on either side that have their strong opinions, have their studies that they can quote from, you know, whatever, whatever about what's best, you have to figure out for your family and you guys, how you function. And the other thing I would say, you can make a different decision. It's not

forever, right? So if you choose to stay at home and it's been a year and a half and you're like, I feel like I'm losing my soul. Like I need to do something different. I need to, that's great. You can. You can make that decision. Or you decide, I'm going to go back to work. And then you go back to work and it's horrible. And you're like, I hate this so much. It's stressing me out. I just want to be home and you guys can make it work as a family then quit and go home like you know nothing is forever decisions we make are so seasonal and I feel like especially as women we get caught in this like what I'm doing today this decision I'm making today it's to me for the rest of my life you're like no you're okay you can make different decisions you bring up so many good

points I also think back to I know that so many of our listeners their ears perked up when you were like I don't think you understand actually how much things cost because I think that there are maybe a lot stay-at-home moms that have taken on a bulk of the household duties, including grocery shopping, expenses for the house, for the kids, like their activities. It's like, it almost looks like that's their spending money when you're like, actually none of this is going towards me, by the way. Like this is all for the, yes, this is for everything going on around here, how we're keeping everything moving. And so I think that, yeah, I just know so many people like ears they're probably like, hey, honey, come here, listen, let me back this up to right here.

That is an interesting discussion. I'm sure this all goes back to budgeting, but how do you have that conversation with your spouse, like when it can feel like, okay, this seems like this is all my fun spending money here that's going on, but this is really where all this is going. I guess that comes down to budgeting, right? Yeah, I mean, I think the budget can be the answer, but I also think looking at it realistically and knowing a little bit of that deeper question of like, okay, what's going on? Is it that we genuinely don't have the margin to do these things, right? And there's some families that are like that. And it's like, we don't have the margin to go. I mean, I took my kids to the zoo and it was like $70. It was close to $100 for us to all go to

the zoo together. And I was like, oh my gosh. Like, it's just crazy. So, you know, there may be instances where, again, money sucks because money just doesn't have emotion. It is what it is. So there may be some situations that you just don't have the money to go do that. You can't go to the indoor trampoline park one day and go to the zoo the next day and do all of this where you're spending, you know, $800 a month on just like fun with the kids. If you don't have that money, you can't spend that money. Right. So there could be someone in that bucket where it's like, I know you want to do that and you want to give your kids these things. But we don't have the money. And if as a family you're choosing, we're not going into debt, we're living below our means.

Those are sacrifices that as a family we have to make. And so it's not fun. That's not enjoyable, but that's the reality. Or it is one spouse looking in and being like, oh my gosh, how are you spending this much on kids back to school shoes, which is what I did yesterday. My kids, you know, all this. I'm like, it's literally what it costs. Like there's no way around it. Now, could we go find, you know, cheaper ones, you know, on Amazon? I don't know, on Amazon. Sure. maybe. Are there things around it? Yes. But also, if we have the money to spend and you just don't like the price tag of it, then we need to talk about that reality. Because if we have the money for it, and if you have the money for it, and yet your spouse's like, I can't believe you spent X amount

at the grocery. You're like, well, we have the money for it. So that's not the issue. The issues you just don't emotionally like that number. Parents of toddlers, how difficult are meal times for you right now? Maybe they're not difficult at all. But for us, sometimes getting a green thing in our kid's mouth or anything with vitamins and nutrients is a little spooky scary. Some nights go really well and other nights, I'm like, gosh, I just hope they ate a couple bites of their mac and cheese. I feel like it's just so hard to get your kids to eat sometimes, but something that hasn't been hard to get our kids to take is their Haya children's vitamins. Typical children's vitamins are basically candy in disguise, filled with five grams of sugar, unhealthy chemicals, and other

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Let me tell you, Haya is a really fun routine for the kids too because they send a reusable bottle that's in this glass jar that kids can decorate with stickers and they have a great time. The same multivitamin that more than a million kids and parents love are now available with Disney's The Lion King with a new Lion King unboxing experience, including Lion King bottles and Lion King stickers. We've worked out a special deal with Haya for their best-selling children's vitamin. Receive 50% off your first order. To claim the deal, you must go to Hiahealth.com slash unplanned.

deal is not available on their regular website. Go to H-I-Y-A-H-E-A-H-E-A-L-T-H-O-T-H-com slash unplanned and get your kids the full-body nourishment they need to grow and to healthy adults. I like how you bring up the day at the zoo type of thing because I think this also poses a question of how do we have that conversation with kids? So say it's like all the kids are talking about going to the zoo and like we're planning this day and then it comes down to it and you're like, oh my gosh, it's going to cost $100 for me to go with the zoo today. How do you have that conversation then with your kids? I would say very age appropriately. Right. So depending on the age, you know, if they're like little, little,

they probably don't care as much. You know, they'll just hang out with you and do something else that's different. But as they get older and they start to be aware of what people are doing or what people have, what people are experiencing other families compared to your family. That's like the seasonal life I'm in right now with my, I have almost a fifth grader. And the things that she picks up on already, you know, she's like, well, so-and-so has this and so-and-so has that. And so the line I keep saying to her, and I hate giving parenting advice, because I'm like, I'm literally in the third. of it. Like, this could be so wrong. I'll just tell you what we're doing, right? And it could be very wrong. It could be very wrong. I just tell them over and over again, like, there's going to be

things families have and do that we don't. And our reasons can be vastly different. Either one, we're choosing not to go to take everyone to Europe, like, you know, your friends, which is great for them. And I don't ever want to bash anyone that has, that's doing something more, not make them the villain. They're not the villain. That's what they're choosing to do. That's not right or wrong. But as a family, we're choosing not to do that. We don't have that in our budget this. summer. And so I will straight up with my older one, just like, we'll talk about money. And so from that side, but it also bleeds into, you know, you're not getting a cell phone until you're a freshman in high school. Like, like there's other things that she's going to want in life. But if my rhetoric is

consistent, Winston and I's of there's going to be families that have and do things that we just don't for certain reasons, they know that's a baseline, that we're not going to look and act like everyone else around us. And so whether that's going to the zoo that looks different because our budget's just different or you want social media and you're not getting social media until you're 16 you know whatever it is like families are going to do and have things that we don't that's really good too to even just have that concept and like believe in as an adult as well I admire so much I always bring up Caleb and Abby his brother and my sister-in-law they shamelessly stick to their budget and I think it's also inspiring to the people they're talking to so they got invited to go to dinner and they're like

it's not in our budget to eat out until this date so we can go out after then or you can come over here for dinner like we're happy to host and it's not even like they try to make up an excuse like it and I honestly think that that is really admirable because it also inspires you to just be like feel like you can make your own money decisions rather than just be like I invite us to dinner and it's like I feel like we've been going out to eat a lot and it's like adding up like that budget's gone through the roof and you just kind of feel like you're tossed in the waves of like invites and like you don't actually have autonomy over your own finances totally and so I always admire them no I love that seriously because I'm like I think about other areas of life when you like have that freedom to make your own

decision so shamelessly that you're like oh yeah I don't have to like make up a big excuse about it you know we're just talking about like sleepovers are becoming a big thing and I'm like I don't know how I feel about it but I'm like it's okay it's okay if I'm like hey she's not going to sleep over tonight like we'll come get her at like 10 p.m you know but I feel the need to like justify or excuse or make the other person feel okay with our decision or something you know what you mean like I I bounce around that a lot where I'm like yeah there's something about just like being confident in what it is whether it's a parenting decision or a money decision or a marriage decision and you're like no this is what we're doing and we're great with it and yeah no shade on the person that's kind of getting like

the reaction because of our decision this is what we're doing and we're good with it there is freedom and I think that any decent person you want to be friends with is going to understand and be like No, that's awesome. I should probably have a look at her budget, you know? Totally. And so, yeah, I was just thinking about that. That's so good. Something I want to talk a bit about with the nature of inflation the past couple of years and prices going up when we bought our house, I was like, shoot, if we would have bought a house a year and a half earlier, it would have been nearly half of what we paid. If we could have bought a house in 2008, man, like, everything is so expensive.

And I know there's a lot of young people, a lot of friends that we have just in general. it's really hard to own a home. What are people to do with the financial turmoil we're in? So I would always go to logic, first and foremost. So go to the numbers, because I think we can get really emotional with things where we're like, oh my gosh, this and this, and I don't know. And we can kind of get spun up in our emotions with it. So when your emotions rise high on a topic, go to the numbers, like go logic.

And so run them out and just say, okay, here's the reality. Here's what my income is today. And the reality is your income is going to go up over time. It is. So we know that's going to happen. But what are the houses in our area? And the reality that sucks. And it's true, like you said, if we bought a house, you know, my husband and I, we built in 2019. So I'm like, I don't know how we like, oh, wow. We like got right before the whole thing. Good for you. Because we couldn't afford our house today. Like genuinely, like it, we wouldn't be able to have this house. When you can look and say, okay, here's the reality of our

world. And my expectations, what they would have been four or five years ago, that's not what the reality is today and that sucks and kind of mourn that like right like if you're like oh my gosh i had this area of phoenix you know that your friends like this is where i thought we would live and we could have afforded it in 2020 but now we can't like that sucks and that's okay to feel that way like yeah be in it like that's not fun and then after that let's move on to the numbers and say okay what can we afford and so what you want to look at is to say okay at least have 5% down for a down payment and then you want to do a 15 year fixed rate mortgage where your mortgage payment is no more than 25% of your take-home pay.

It's kind of our formula. Wait, wait, wait. Why not an arm? Why not an adjustable rate? I got some, I got a formula and I got confused. Wait, say that again. So at least a 5% down payment. Okay.

That's like your goal. Okay, 20% would be amazing because you could avoid PMI, but 5%, especially for first-time home buyers, 5%. And then we always recommend a 15-year fixed rate because we want you out of debt as quickly as possible versus a 30-year. And then your payment should be no more than a quarter of your take-home pay, 25% of your take-home pay. Okay. Okay. So that's the goal because people that's mortgages or even rent that bumps up to like 50% of their take home pay, they don't have any margin to do things like invest and like, you know what I mean? Have a life. So you don't want your house to become a curse financially. You want it to be a blessing. And so having that margin, which again, our formula is pretty conservative. And I'm sure there's me a lot of people in the comments that are like, there's no way I can afford. So the key there is, okay, our expectations have to shift that we may not be able to buy a home in the area that we thought we were or the

or the year it was built or whatever, fill in the formula. And it may take us longer time-wise to sit to do this formula. That's the key. And so you may have to drive 20 minutes out further than what you were expecting or whatever it looks like for you, but fitting it in there financially is going to be huge. But the reality is it's going to take longer for people. And again, I will say it again, your expectations have to be lowered because it's just more, it is so expensive today.

And so it's going to take longer. It may not be the house that you 100% want, but getting it. in the market as soon as possible is really important because everyone thought there was going to be a big bubble like you know as everything was like doubling right like in like 2021 2021 22 it was just crazy everything was like getting so big people were like oh it's going to be a real estate bubble it's all going to pop it's going to be like you know 08 again you know nope it hasn't happened and they continue to steadily increase home values very small it's not like what it was but it's going up so the sooner you can get in again with that formula not having debt having an emergency fund having some

of that, then get in, but it may take you longer. I know a lot of people think of owning a home as an asset. I know there's a lot of mixed opinions on that, you know, certain experts saying, hey, maybe focus on investments elsewhere, not relying on your home being your retirement plan. There's a neighborhood that I had some family members live in in St. Louis when I was growing up that every time we'd go visit them, I noticed the neighborhood would get worse and it got more run down and things just weren't going well. And when I hear people talking about having a home as an asset, think about that neighborhood, the one where values were depreciating and everybody was moving out and it just got worse and worse and worse. How can people protect themselves against that?

How can they protect themselves against owning a house in a neighborhood where things are just getting run down and essentially the value of their home is decreasing? Yeah, it's more of a rare instance, I would say. But that is, I mean, yeah, I think that can happen. So I think you do have to look around and say, okay, you can't predict the future. So you don't know if this neighborhood in 15 years is going to be different than it is today. Who knows? But I do, I think you do have to be wise and say, okay, are we buying at the top of the neighborhood? Like, are we buying the most expensive house in a crappy neighborhood? That's probably not a smart plan. You don't want to do that. So, yeah, so there's some decisions you can make around that. But I would say, too, having a paid

off home, again, for me is, that's like, that's the big goal to have everything paid off. So for the experts that are like, yeah, just rent and put your money elsewhere. You know, I've heard them say that. But I'm like, it's your biggest line item in your budget. And for the average person out there, like, when you're 65 and you're going into retirement, not. having a house payment owning your home free and clear regardless of the value of it or not like it's free and clear yeah so then you can actually let your retirement which you've been saving for your investments go so much further than it going to the biggest expense in your monthly budget and so that's what i would say because i think too you're trying to create peace in your life right there is a

level of these numbers that's fun to see like investments go up and all that there also is a level of i just want to create peace i don't want this to be yes i don't want a stressful situation and so what happens is a lot of people, they just dive right in. They get the home and they end up stressing out or they end up getting pregnant. Like we're talking about earlier and one of them wants to stay home and like we can't afford this because we literally bought at the top of like what we could barely afford. And now it's like our house has us. And our house is the thing that's trapped us. And it was supposed to be the great thing that was supposed to be wonderful that we all wanted. Now it's the thing we hate the most. So you just don't want to be in that situation.

That's why more of the conservative approach people probably don't like. But it gives you options and margin and that's what we're shooting for and doing a 30 year mortgage i've heard if you if you do a 30 year and then you're also making additional payments along the way that's going to shorten your timeline a lot do you have many firm opinions on that method rather than doing the 15 year the 15 year i like because it's locked in to a formula that's going to get you out in 15 we're seeing most people are paying off their homes in seven to nine years oh no way yeah when they're doing the ramsie plan which is amazing and so they're paying it off earlier anyways but being as much locked in as you can be on your values. And if you can put things in place to create that boundary, the better off.

So the 15 year just creates that boundary of like for sure it's getting paid off in 15. Now, some people will do the 30 and they're like, well, pay it like it's a 15 because, you know, that'll be great. But life happens and kind of like we're talking about giving, you know, you're like, oh, well, we could do this over here. We'll get back to that there. You know, so the 15 just kind of locks you into a formula to get it paid off. But if you have a 30 and you are out of debt, you have an emergency fund and you want to start paying your home off faster and you can run the math and it's crazy if you just made like three extra mortgage payments a year what it does to decrease to your point so it is there's something really powerful about

having some of those goals to pay it off faster and how much money you save an interest and all of it because it's just a big purchase right i mean it's the largest purchase anybody makes and so it's a big deal hearing you say that makes me go oh i can't believe we didn't do the 15 year on our house because we were going to and then so and then i think it was either our realtor or the lender talk me out of it. They're like, no, you should really just do 30 year and put some extra payments towards it. So we're doing that. Matt, you got to stick to your guns. I know. I know. I know. Okay, we do own our car's cash. You're doing great. So that like, that actually felt good. Like when, because they sent us the, the, um, what is it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, we got it.

Like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, yeah. Yeah. It's, like, it is hard to follow these principles in today's world. Everyone is trying to convince you that this is the better way. I know. It's really not that bad. And it's just, it's, it's hard to like live differently and to like treat your finances differently, especially when, you know, everyone feels this pressure to live outside their means. Yeah. You got to live like no one else so you can live like no one else. Matt has looked at you, Matt. Unbelievable. I read the books. Nine years. And I think what's hard too is like instant gratification has been so magnified in today's world. And I do think like social media. I think our attention span is so short. And that really goes into our money, too. So when you see some things,

I see it all the time, probably because of my algorithm. But yeah, you'll see a reel on Instagram and they're like, here's, I have 40 Airbnbs and we make $5 million a buck. It's a scam. Yeah, and you're watching it and you're like, but if you don't know, to your point, I'm like, there's something about like, oh, that sounds great. And the fast tracking to wealth is everywhere. And it always has been, but it feels more magnified today because I think people are stressed. A million courses. Yes, so they are stress and they're like, okay, if there's an easier path, I want to walk it and you end up, you go down an easier path and ends up screwing you. So like, I'd say our method, it's more old school. It's more just common sense. It's not that complicated. Yeah. But it's worked

for like literally millions of people and you just have to do it. And it's, and that's the other thing too. I don't mean this demeaning, but like, it's average people. Like it's just, they're not superheroes. They're not like, they're great. They're just like these quiet millionaires walking around that you'd have no idea. And they've killed it because they've, they've lived debt free. They fund their 401k and they're Roth. right you know they do all the boring stuff it's not crypto it's not exciting but you just stay the glamorous yeah it's not glamorous but you stay the path and you have peace in your life you have stability you have control and you're good it's not these like crazy emotions that sometimes that instant

wealth can cause like i want to get rich fast you know yeah we've kind of touched on some of these topics but um we're parents of toddlers i know you have little ones as well i know so many people listening have like little little kids i imagine money conversations start early in life how do you have that like first money conversation with your kids and like basically the principle of we don't spend more than we make they're not perfect by any means of parents but they did a good job in this area of making it a rhythm of life so it's like we're not going to sit down and like have a formal money conversation like it's going to be a part of life and so you know um so when the four year old's necklace breaks you know and they want a new one i naturally i'm like well just go on amazon

I'll buy a 20 pack for $4.99 cents and you can, but then I'm like, no, we're not going to replace everything that breaks. And we're going to just talk about that. Like, oh, that, I hate that broke. You know, maybe we can do something and we can save up a little bit and mom will give you a dollar or two, too, and we can figure out how to like replace this. So you find these moments in life to use them as teachable moments. I like that. Versus like a formal kind of sit down. And I found that, too, again, I'm not a parenting expert by any means, but even other areas of life like friendship stuff or sex or like whatever it is like with our kids I'm like it's just part of life like it's the rhythm and when a situation comes up it's like oh hey here's here's what mom

was thinking about this and you just let them know and you kind of just have that conversation more when something arises versus a formal sit down I like that and I also like how you bring up the example of necklaces because like we've been talked I have so many mom friends that have little kids and then we always say it's no big deal we can get another one and then it's like wait that doesn't really teach them how life works, money works, like there's just this abundance that's coming from somewhere. That's right. That's right. Yes. And that was me. I mean, I did that so many times and I caught myself. I'm like, oh my gosh, because it's just easier. In the moment, they cry. You're like, I just want to fix. Like I have two other, I have a baby here. I have this toddler

that's going crazy. My other ones, and I'm like, we'll get another one. Don't worry. And you just like want to move on. And sometimes it's survival mode. So I give a lot of grace. Do what you got to do. Yes. I've done that so many times. And I'm the spender. So I'm like, oh, don't worry, girl. We'll get get you, we'll get you another one. And so I had to catch myself in that. And then what I've learned too, and you'll learn this with your kids, they have different money personalities. So it's so funny to see them come out. And my middle is so much like me. I mean, she's a little consumer. Like she just wants and wants and wants and wants. Like she sees something. Mom, I want this, want this, one this. Girlfriend just wants things all the time. And so I finally had to set her down.

And like, I was like, Caroline, we can't just keep wanting. And here's why. Mom, I get this, Caroline. I get it. I want something new. Like, when I get Amazon earrings, like, I get excited. Like, I understand this so much. But what we have to learn, like, our stuff and that excitement, it lasts two minutes. And then it's gone. And then it's just like another pair of your shoes sitting in your closet right now. They're not exciting and fun and new anymore. And so if the next new pair gives you that same excitement and use that over and over and over again,

you're going to just run Caroline and get nowhere. So we have to stop and, like, sit in the disappointment of all of our stuff is old and not fun. And let's just be there because I have to do that. Like, genuinely, I have to do that. Like, I want to go and shop all the time. No, Rachel, just sit with your clothes for a month and don't buy anything new. It's okay, you know. Yeah, you've shared about that.

Yeah, so it's just like the contentment stuff. But, again, my oldest doesn't struggle with that as much. She's more of the hoarder where I'm like, please have some fun. Like, you can spend some of this money that you've worked so hard for. So they're going to have different personality. So you kind of have to like balance it. But it's fun when you see yourselves in them. Totally.

And you're like, I get it. I get it. And also you're going to struggle with what I struggle with as an adult. Yeah. I like that conversation of contentment, especially in like today's world. like we've talked so much about like you're always I think social media is probably the biggest culprit of this so bad you know there's always like this is my necessity or like these conversations of like the must have like everyone's got to like there's so much pressure to have yes an overabundance

overconsumption it's a big problem nowadays and I like this conversation of contentment I guess like you've opened up a little bit can you expand a little bit about how you were like noticing that in yourself and how you can kind of work against that yeah I found myself asking the question if If nobody sees this purchase, do I still want it? Wow. Like how much of my motivation is for other people? And y'all do the Enneagram. A little bit.

Okay. I'm an enneagram. I think I lied to get what I wanted. I was like, I would be a seven. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right.

That'd be a seven, too. I'm such a three. So if you do the anagram, you'll know. And I'm like, it is. It's so innate. I'm a three. What is the three? It's the performer.

Really? I do like. It's probably us. Oh, and what's the maximizer? We did meet doing musical theater. So we. I love it. I love it. Yeah. So I just found myself so much of my motivation is for other people. And I'm like, what does that say about me? Right? So I'm like, what is going on in me? And so doing some like major self-reflection, some good therapy, all of it, for other reasons. But that part came out of my need to not only just be liked, but a level of like peace and like, hey, I'm going to take care of a situation because I want to make sure everyone's good. Like, there's so much of us that come out. And it's crazy that I'm like, it's like, it all spawn because I was like oh I want to buy this whole cart of anthropology clothes like but why why do I want this new stuff all the time so there's that also in me a level of excitement like it does and I think for anyone but when you buy something new it's exciting so if I'm bored I found myself especially during COVID I'll just scroll I'll put that I'm okay you know and you kind of just like end up doing it because you're bored and you need this like dopamine hit of getting excited so I had to learn put down the phone and just like go walk rachel go do something like change up what you're doing even physically versus just something

sitting there and scrolling. So it's those kind of questions and situations that I ask myself. And, you know, one thing that I have realized that was that stuff, stuff is not bad, right? Buying stuff is not bad. But you always, you don't, it's okay to have nice stuff. Just don't let your nice stuff have you. And it can have you when you go into debt for it, because you've borrowed for it. It owns you financially. And it also can have you when that identity and contentment is wrapped up so tightly in that thing. And that's even the car example. When we're talking about the new car, it's like, why? What is the real motivation? Right. And we can get to that route and it helps us make better decisions financially.

But it's so hard. It is so hard. And when you can justify it, because if you do have the money and it's in the budget, I'm like, ah, it's just like $20 shirt here. You know, you kind of just like, eh, it's not that big of a deal because it may not hurt on that side. But what it's doing to you and just realizing, oh, my gosh, I'm like trying to find my happiness and my excitement in life and buying stuff. And it gets you nowhere because it just becomes a whole other thing, right? That just sits there. So it's a lesson I continue to learn Abby over and over and over. It's good, but it's real. Because you're like, okay, well, if no one knew that I had this thing, do I still want it?

Well, Rachel, thank you so much for coming on our show. Where's the best place for people to connect with you? Oh, gosh, as we were just bashing social media. I'm on social. I'm on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook. I'm trying to put out good content to the world. And I have a podcast, the Rachel Cruz show and a YouTube channel. I'm also a host of The Ramsey Show and Smart Money Happy Hour.

Thanks for having me on. I so appreciate all you guys do. The honor is our, seriously.