The Unplanned Podcast with Matt & Abby - Tony Robbins: How to Build a Relationship that Lasts

Episode Date: January 14, 2026

Tony Robbins and his wife Sage Robbins sit down with Matt & Abby for an honest conversation about marriage, love, and longevity. They open up about miscarriage, surrogacy, raising kids later in life, and what it really takes to stay connected through different seasons of a relationship. This episode is sponsored by LMNT, Hiya, BetterHelp & Cash App. LMNT: Get a free 8-count Sample Pack of LMNT’s most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase at https://DrinkLMNT.com/UNPLANNED Hiya: Receive 50% off your first order of Hiya's best selling children's vitamin at https://hiyahealth.com/UNPLANNED BetterHelp: Sign up and get 10% off at https://BetterHelp.com/unplannedpodcast. #ad Cash App: Download Cash App Today: https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/5u7gm6rr #CashAppPod. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App’s bank partner(s). Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. See terms and conditions at https://cash.app/legal/us/en-us/card-agreement Cash App Green, overdraft coverage, borrow, cash back offers and promotions provided by Cash App, a Block, Inc. brand. Visit http://cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures. Chapters: 00:00 - Tony Robbins 01:27 - Secret to long marriage 02:41 - Struggles with miscarriages 05:20 - Parenting then vs. Parenting now 11:07 - I'm Not Your Guru 16:58 - The love my parents modelled 24:10 - Your relationship as seasons 34:35 - Fertility journey 41:47 - Surrogacy 52:37 - Soul Recognition 54:38 - Raising our daughter as a product of love 59:34 - Working with your spouse 1:09:45 - Everyone's deepest fear 1:14:49 - Responsibility is freedom Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Visit medcan.com slash moments to get started. This is not being disrespectful. I hope you can feel in my state. Yeah. You're not a man until you're about 40, just so you know. Maybe 50. Our daughter has two moms. She has her mom carried her. She's got her mom here that comes from her and she's got me. We have this unique family.

I wanted to be a mother so bad. And then miscarriage after miscarriage after miscarriage. I surrendered that. And I'd never be who I am without that path. The best way to serve your children is the way you love each other. We live in a world. We make our kids number one. And our kids are critical to us.

But we're number one. The deepest fear everyone has. everyone. I've dealt with kings, queens, presents, people in prisons. We all have a fear that we're not enough. And that leads to a much deeper fear, which is, if I'm not enough, I won't be loved. And love is the oxygen of life. Today on unplanned, we sat down with the self-help legend Tony Robbins, the billionaire, life coach, motivational speaker, and philanthropist that has been helping people get their lives back on track since the 1980s. And his work has impacted some of the most influential people in the world. Names like Nelson Mandela, Bill Clinton,

and Princess Diana. Also, his wife of over 20 years, Sage is joining us for this interview, and we get into all the unique details of their story. Like having a baby in their 50s and 60s, why their daughter has two moms, and so much more, all on today's episode. You've been together for over 26 years, correct? Yes. What's your secret?

How do you stay married that long? It's amazing. Love is the answer, brother. I know what I have, and I'm not about to mess that up. I think part of it is we're devoted to each other, but we also have a mission that we're devoted to. And I think it's important to have something, you know, devotion is different than just love.

Yeah. Devotion is like your needs are my needs, not I'm going to meet your needs to make you happy or until you're not. We're both completely devoted each other and devoted to our family. But we also have a mission to serve as many human beings. And one of the beautiful things when Sage came into my life is I felt like I wasn't the only person

that had that sense of caring and drive. And we brought up being different qualities, together and compliment each other. So, but every day I think to myself, you know, how to get so lucky, I always say, and I really believe I've helped tens of millions of people around the world, and this is my reward. You know, this is my good karma, this young lady here. And you have a sweet four-year-old daughter together. We do.

That's a very big deal. I know that didn't come without challenges, though. That was a long journey. Tell us more about that. You're 26? 27. So I met, we met at 26 years old. Oh, you were 26.

Yes. When I was 20, yes. when I was 26 years old. And I miscarried the first time when I was, gosh, 25. And then I never imagined it would be a 20-year journey, but I miscarried time and time and time again. And, you know, lo and behold, I found out many, many years later that I have a rare genetic disorder

that my body was even attacking a baby, and I didn't know it. And so, you know, this divine orchestration had another plan and its own timing. I never imagined I'd be the stage of my life with a four-year-old. But it's so beautiful. And it's so for anybody that's on the journey and that wants to be a parent, it's worth to endure and to trust in God's timing. And to know that sometimes what appears or the experience of loss, we just never know what is. in store for us. And our daughter was so worth the wait. It's such a joy to be parents. And also just, I'm really passionate as well of having children later in life just because we did it.

And it's such a beautiful experience. You have more lived wisdom and understanding. And I think, you know, when I think of a younger version of myself, I'm so grateful that we didn't have her then because I feel like we have more to offer. I mean, I was pushing around 50. I was married previously, she was as well, but the woman I married previously had children from two different husbands, and I adopted them within my life. So I was 24, 25, and had a 17-year-old son instantly, an 11-year-old, a 5-year-old, then one on the way. And so I felt like, you know, I had raised kids already. I've been through all those stages. And so I was like, honey, if we're going to do this, you know, I can do this by 50. I don't want to be like 55. I was 61 when we had her.

Yeah, no, 66. And I got to tell you, it's the greatest gift in the world. We were actually with a very famous designer when I was like 50. And we had his birthday party. And he was 60, I think 60 years old at the time. And he just had a kid and he was going on and on about it. And I remember in my mind thinking, wow, I can't imagine. And yet now that I'm there and we're there together, there's no greater gift. Because I'm proud of how I was his father before.

But you just have, like Sage said, so much more wisdom, so much more insight. You can live your life so differently to be able to offer to your children at this stage. I got five grandchildren as well. So it's like, my daughter is older than my grandchildren. So she's the auntie to all. That is funny. It's so weird. Okay, what is that like, I mean, being a parent then versus being a parent now?

Because we're in this age of social media where dopamine hits are rooting people's, you know, mental health. And it's really affecting people. So how do you approach parenting now in this day and age? Well, the biggest difference is having this is my wife. This age is the most unique human being that I could possibly imagine. We've spent 25 years of your life traveling the earth, helping people make differences in their lives. And there's no one quite as spiritually rooted that I've ever met than her. When we first met, I didn't feel an attraction to her per se.

I saw her across the room and literally walked across the room. She stood up. We looked in each other's eyes. And I said, you're beautiful. I mean, I said inside beautiful. It wasn't aligned. And she didn't say anything, which was the last time she was quiet, I think, during the book. It was a soul recognition like that feeling of.

of coming home. And I remember I left there, one of my friends was like, she's hot, and I was like, hot, I didn't experience that at all. It was so silly, because she is so hot. What of your friends said that to you? Yes, my security guard. Oh my God, I'm like, no, I know. I said, someday I'll teach with her spiritually,

and I'd never said about any human. And then I was interested in your relationship at that point, right? And so then I'd been in a relationship for a long time, and I went out and I was single, and we were best friends. We talked to eight in the morning on the phone, and then I would go out of dates,

and I would tell her every detail of my date, and she's like, you clearly don't understand women. She would teach me. You're the best of friends. So we start with that. So they have her is the number one difference. Number two, we don't allow our daughter. There's no screen time with her at the stage.

There's no social media. We don't have any pictures of her. And social media won't even say her first name just because we want to have her own life and not to be tied into that. So we feel strong about that. And the container ship of just her having her own reality and not being exposed.

And so we're mindful of that. that on weekends. You know, we will share like a movie or a show. And we're usually watching things that are like 30 years old, like Little Bear, Daniel Tiger. We love that. Daniel Tiger's wholesome. There's actually programming. It's called Stillwater that we just discovered that has really beautiful stories and meaningful examples.

It's really beautifully done and thoughtfully done. We've seen the sound of music 5,000 times. Mary Poppins, 250 times. Yes. She's got a good attention span. Mary Poppins is kind of long. Yeah, that is a long one. I think to be intentional with what children are putting into their minds and what they're

processing, I think, is really important as parents. And of course, you can't, you know, stop kids from being exposed. Life is life. But in our home, we're very mindful of what she's consuming. Yeah. And she also, because of that, she's an avid reader. You know, she probably reads, gosh, maybe eight, nine, ten books a day. Holy cow.

Well, we, you know, read to her. She just really loves. And she's studying, like, you know, three different languages. She's doing architecture. She does her ballet. She has gymnastics. But also she has time just to be a kid, just to be it. She has a time in the day.

And it's just her time, do whatever she wants and so forth. So she isn't just over-scheduled. But we want her to learn how to learn. Because, as you say, in the world we're in right now with AI, people are all worried about this because if you think about it 150 years ago 80% of Americans were farmers now it's 3% we feed the world wow but that was plenty of time to go no one thought of a job like I'm gonna be a webmaster or something back then or AI something but the difference now is the speed of change the speed of

change is going to be so rapid it's already so rapid with AI that you see jobs disappearing right now that traditionally college students are the first time high school students are more employed than college students the first time in 50 years has happened right now. Holy cow. They used to say, you want a future? Be a software engineer, right? Learn the right code.

Well, guess what? Now with vibe coding, all these companies, they need fewer software engineers and anyone can do code. It's only going to get better in those areas. So I think every person has got to learn how to become a creator.

What I mean by that is most people are stressed. When you ask them why they're stress, they tell you about stories, but it's because they're busy managing. They're managing their circumstances. They're trying to make you through the day. They're trying to, you know, earn that living. But they never designed their life.

And we were created by something, obviously. We call our creator. You could call it God, the universe, whatever you prefer. And we were designed to create. And so our daughter is a creator. She isn't just learning other people's stuff. She's converting these ideas into something that she wants to create, whether it's a structure, an architectural structure,

or it's a song, or it's poetry, or drawing, or something she's doing in their body to music. And so that, to me, is the ticket. is teaching kids how to learn rapidly because you're not going to be a place by an AI, you're going to be a place by someone who knows an AI, right? Yeah. But your life has to be more than machines

and more than screens, or you won't have the emotional development. So that's what we're focused on with her. And I think kids these days, they're overstimulated, they're distracted, they're entertained every moment, and so, you know, the energy is external. And yet there's a whole world internal

that nothing really compares to. And so ever since she could actually, actually sit up, we call it her quiet explore time. So it's her time to be with herself. And every day in the afternoon for maybe about 45 minutes, she goes up to her room and she has her own time. And she'll draw, she'll play, she'll dance, but it's her time to be with herself. And I think in a world today with so many screens and just overstimulation, like kids are really overstimulated so innocently. And then we give them all sorts of labels. And I think because they're taught that it's more sexy, that the pacing cadence of, they miss life.

Tony, I watched the Netflix documentary that you did, and I was honestly blown away. I'm not your guru. Yeah, I'm not your guru. It was so good. I actually lost a buddy of mine to suicide in college, and seeing that man talk to you in the beginning, and you're talking about his red shoes, and you're joking around, and he's just, you know, clearly really considering at that point. in his life, ending his life. It was a very powerful thing to watch. How do you have these

conversations with these people? It's just so amazing. It's fascinating to me that you're able to just stand up there and help them get to the root of their problems so quickly. What's the secret? What is it that people need? Well, a lot of questions. Sorry, I kind of rambled there. I apologize. No, you're a ramble. I understand. First of all, an interesting thing, that young man's name was Mateus, and he did not commit suicide, obviously. But more importantly, I just did the Diary of CEO podcast for about three hours. And he sent in a message to thank me. No way. Yeah, it's been 10 years since I did that session again and said his life has never been the same and he's so great it was a surprise they surprised me with it on the air which is very very touching but in that same

one you may have remembered there was a young woman that was in a sex cult where the parents had sex with the children was so horrific and I was in Brazil and I was doing an event a few years ago and I was in the crowd and 10,000 people and I walked by and this woman kept looking at me looking at some people you know you're fascinating to them or in some way because you're you know you're a celebrity or something in their mind. But then I didn't realize. She goes, don't you recognize me? And it was her. She looked like such a different person. She wrote a book. She became a therapist. She got out of the group. She got other people out of the group. So it's so beautiful to see those things. Answer your question, how? It's a lifetime of understanding what creates meaning. The quality of

your life is the emotions you feel. You can have $10 billion, but if what you feel every day is angry or sad, your life is angry and sad. You can have the most beautiful children, the most beautiful husband or wife and they love you and you can not feel love. You can be worried all the time. So where we live emotionally, we have an emotional home is where people live. I'm really good at uncovering what created those emotional patterns because there are like 4,000 words in the English language for emotions you could feel. When I have a room of 15,000 people, 20,000 people, stadium and I'll say, write down, I'll give you as much time as you need, line down the middle of the page, all the emotions you feel in a week that are great and empowering and all the ones

you feel are disempowering and not something you feel once in a rare while something at least once a week so it's not a once in a while once a month feeling and so it doesn't take long and 99% of the people you get one or two people have 100 emotions 50 emotions out of a stadium 99% have less than a dozen emotions five or six good ones and five or six five or six but they're the same ones they get excited and worried and frustrated and pissed off and then you know fearful and you see it happen again and again and again. And there's a reason for that. It has to do with the values we have and the belief systems we have, get you to that result over and over again. So long story shortened, if someone's going to commit suicide, just like if someone's to do anything, they're going to give away their money,

they're going to work hard, they're going to love on a stranger. Whatever we do, we have a reason, but I know there's only six reasons. There are six human needs. And I know that what's driving you is which of these needs are the top of your list are driving you. We all have the same needs, but we have two things that are different. One is some people value, let's say, security or certainty number one, and some people want variety as number one. That's a different life. Some people want to be significant more than anything else. Some people want to be loved. Which are you value most determine your direction in life. If you want variety, you're going this way. If you want security, you're going this way. And direction determines destination or destiny. So I know, the minute

I discover what's driving you, I know what your problems are, I know what your challenges are, In addition to that, you have a set of beliefs about how to meet those needs. So if you're trying to meet your need for certainty, you might eat to do it because you're freaked out and you eat and all of a sudden you breathe and you calm down. Or you smoke a cigarette. You're killing yourself, but you take a breath in nice and slow and drop it out slow. You calm down. Or you can do it by working out and you feel strong. That's a positive way to do it.

Or you could trust that God is guiding you. Or you could say, look, I've been through so much in my life. I always find the way. you can get the certainty in positive ways, neutral ways, or negative ways, but your life is directed. So once I know what's driving you and what your rules are, which is not hard to figure out very quickly, I know what the problem is, and I know where to take you. If someone's going to commit suicide, it's an obvious one. What would you have to believe to commit suicide?

That there's no point in living anymore, that your life is meaning. I mean, like, I'll be, I don't want to talk too much about me right now, but like I'm actually coming off of SSRIs. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I mean, I have an amazing wife. I have amazing kids. And I love my life to death. But the thing that kept me going was like my kids. Whenever things got really dark in my life, I just looked at my kids and like, I have to be here for them. The way that they love me and the way that I love them, it brought and still brings a purpose in my life that I've never experienced before until

becoming a parent. Well, I think I think anyone becomes a parent. That's God, right? We're programmed to love our children, even if they look like lizards when they're born. We think they're beautiful, right? They have no teeth, they're fat, they're drill them old, but try that when you're 50, see if it works for you, right? We're a program for that. But the difference that in your wife is not you love your wife less, it's that that love is so programmed as it is in her for your children, but it's also love that you don't think is going to go away

because you never had a teenager. So it feels like certain love. Her love could feel like goes away if you didn't behave effectively, or vice versa, it could happen on both sides. But one of the great gifts that you love, be able to give each other as time goes on is to understand the best way to serve your children is the way you love each other. Because we live in a world, we make our kids number one, and our kids are critical to us, but we're number one. And the reason is in Sage's life, her parents,

you know, they had a relationship that was extraordinary, and they had her, describe it if you would, honey. It was not me telling them. Yes, my mommy and daddy had been together for 50 years, and there was five of us children. They fostered children. And so our house was dynamic. but the one thing that was just always known was that my mom and dad were first and foremost. And it's not that they loved us any less. I, you know, I experienced tremendous love. My parents were unified. You know, I could never play my mom against my dad.

And in that, you know, they always took their time together. They always had a date night. They always had, you know, they traveled. Like, they did things together. And I didn't recognize, like, what a demonstration of love that was, because it was also an example. It was a mirror to me. me. And they, still to this day, you know, life circumstances change. And as I shared with you, you know, my sweet mama's been navigating dementia. And at different stages of life, I've just been so

humbled at how enduring love and to witness my father, serve my mama and take care of my mama. And my mom was always such a caregiver herself to my father and our family. And so, you know, just the poignancy of life and the beauty of life. But their togetherness, And in the container ship of life and love, you go through everything together. You know, you drop down in the valleys. You go to hell, you go to heaven. But yet I think a lot of times in relationships, people, you know, they hit a challenging time and they give up because they think it's like, oh my gosh, the, you know, the dream is over, the fantasy is over. This isn't a chance.

He or she is not who I thought them to be. But my parents really were such an example to endure, like to make it through those tough times. because when you do that as a couple, you only get closer. It just gets sweeter with time. It gets more authentic. If you keep growing. If you keep growing, and you stay.

Yeah, and you stay both. And her family, you think about it, we think today, like, this whole thing, baby on board, that'll start in the 80s. You know, even movies changed. Movies used to be, the exorcist was a child, right? It was the devil's child, Rosemary's baby, right? We went to a new place where we put our children first,

and that's why so many relationships are dysfunctional. Because you would think that the children would feel less, love. They feel more love because they see secure love. And they have a model that it can be done in the future, which most people don't have. So she had that experience. I really did. And that experience shapes so much at such a different level. But the other part is people think of a love relationship as, you know, just the romance and the excitement of the beginning of a relationship. And life is seasons. I mean, you think about what changed humanity from living in fear as, you know, hunter-gatherers hoping we can get enough food to survive, to...

being able to stay, build a family, have a life, build a community, build a city, build a country. The answer is one distinction, one recognition of a pattern, because that's what this is all about. If you can recognize patterns, AI, whatever it is,

if you can learn to use them, you'll have no fear. Patterns show you that it's not random. When you learn how to use them, you have power. When you learn to create patterns, you become very powerful. So there's patterns in parenting.

There's patterns in relationship. The pattern that changed humanity was understanding the seasons. Till we understood that we were always in fear because you could plant something, but three quarters of the time it didn't work. Holy cow. Until we came up with, oh, if I plant in the spring,

not any other season, that's the only time. If I do the right thing at the right time, I get the reward. But if I do the right thing at the wrong time, which three quarters at the time was the wrong time, I get nothing. Once we understood that, okay, and then I got to protect it during the summer,

then I get to reap in the fall, and I better hang on to some of that for the winter. That's why we're here not living like survivalists. Thank you to Element for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. I kid you not. Every single time I say I have a headache or I feel a little dizzy or anything of that nature. The first question that Matt always asks me is, have you been drinking water? Yep, that or eaten something?

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purchase at drinkelement.com slash unplanned. Find your favorite element flavor or share with a friend. Try Element, that's L-M-N-T, and see how you feel. They have a world-class customer service team, so for any reason you're not satisfied, they'll take care of you. Thank you to Haya for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. If your toddlers are anything like ours or like any of our toddler's friends, they love a routine. And when you stray from that routine, they are not very pleased. And part of our everyday morning routine is our kids enjoying their Haya vitamins.

Haya provides these stickers that your kids can put on the bottle, and our boys love it. decorate the bottle with them. They also put them on their own face and hands. Kids with stickers crack me up. They have so much fun and they also think their vitamins are candy. They call them candy actually. And I'm glad that they think they're delicious because we can also feel good about them eating them as parents because Haya's vitamins are pretty awesome. Typical children's vitamins are basically candy in disguise filled with five grams of sugar, unhealthy chemicals and other gummy junk growing kids should never eat. And that's why Haya was created. It's a super powered chewable vitamin formulated with the help of pediatricians and nutritional experts. Haya is pressed with a blend of

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To claim the deal, you must go to Hiahealth.com slash unplanned. This deal is not available on the regular website. Go to H-I-Y-A-H-E-A-L-T-H-H-E-A-L-T-H-C-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-tland and get your kids the full-nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults. Think of your relationship is four seasons. Think of the first season is the season of just pure chemistry, pure romance, which you've read about and everything else, where you don't even know the other person's values,

but you're in love with them because you've got the chemistry for it, right? And we all have that experience. But that's about a three to five year max for most people, right? After three to five years, some of that wears off. And by the way, when you're under the chemistry of something and you have the attraction going, everything your partner does is beautiful and wonderful. But when all of a sudden you get to a point where there'll be some clashes,

oh, we have different ideas about parenting. Oh, we have different ideas about economics. Oh, we have different. Then all of a sudden, the chemistry can disappear a little bit. And that is the testing time. Most people, that three to five, maybe seven years max season, if they don't get their needs met, because they think I'm in a relationship to get my needs met.

The purpose of relationship is not a place to go get. The purpose of relationship, a place you go give, and that's what lights you up. It's like when you first meet somebody, you're totally in love with them. What do you want to do? Give them everything. Giving them everything that lights you up.

Then after a while, people are like, I'm not getting the same. They start measuring it. It becomes a transaction. So if you get through that first season, the way you get through that first season is you start to have a reality check that, hey, this isn't just about me feeling good.

This is what's something larger that we're creating together. If you do that, you'll make it to summer. Springtime's easy. Summer is a little more testy. Summer is now you've got two kids, two and three years old, and you're not sleeping at night.

And I don't know what the hell you're doing. I'm up all night or I'm up all night. And it's like, oh, we've got the podcast to do and like, oh my God, the finances, and the person to show up here. And then there's all these other things that enter your relationship where you start to see, oh my God, we have different needs and different ways. She's going to relate to your children at two and three different than you are as a man. That's just, that's the nature of things. And she may not understand that at times or vice versa, right? So during that time, it becomes an exploration of,

hey, I need to actually understand who I love here and begin to appreciate the differences instead of being frustrated by the differences, to know those differences have a higher purpose in our evolution together. Because usually you pick someone who you feel is just like you or like how you want to be when you're in chemistry,

but then you discover they aren't exactly like you because we're different species. And so you have to learn how to communicate and how to connect. If you make it through that stage, which is usually for most people they don't get to that stage or leave that stage till mid-40s or 50s, most people, because they have to live enough life.

You have to go through these test, these ups and downs, and sometimes there are things in the middle, like somebody dies or a family member dies, or you lose your job, or COVID comes. Real testing periods. If at those times you turn on each other, it's going to end. Now, most people leave the romance. My needs aren't met, they leave within those three to five years,

or they get married and leave. Most people then, if they have, they leave there, they leave the next one because it's the toughest season. It's the summer season. If you make it through it, the transition is life's no longer about me, it's about we. Where all of a sudden, it isn't you just think about your needs whether you're met or not, or your children, it's like, this is what we're here for. We're here for a high purpose together.

And now you enter a season we would call fall, where fall things flow. It's just, it's a different level love. It's a love that's unimaginable. You know, I just, he wants my happiness, I want his happiness. That's beautiful. It's really, it's so natural. And it's effortless. because you get, I think, the gift of, you know, staying in a relationship for such a period of time,

and you enter into fall and you go through these seasons is you get over yourself. You know, you get over yourself. You get over your conditioning. You get over your expectations. And it's just like, wow, I love this human. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, how many years have you two been together now? Seven years.

Seven years. Yeah. Okay, seven years. Yeah. But how long before that? We're 10 years now. Nine and a half. Coming up on a decade.

That's great. Yeah. You're heading you through that other side. That's right. As you get in that season, though, the going through the tough times, which nobody wants to go through. Let me bring that back to the question. How do you help people? The meaning of your life determines how you feel.

The meaning is based on the narrative you've created. I can talk to somebody and ask them how they met, and we know where their relationship is, by the way they tell their origin story. You can see whether there's ones rolling their eyes or they're both into it, everything else. It's very easy to see where someone is in their life in that area. So the ultimate narrative is this. If you look at all the stories of humanity and you study mythology and religion, right, as Joseph Campbell did, if you're familiar with his work, the oldest story of humanity is the hero's journey. So the hero's journey is understanding in a relationship in a

person's life that they're feeling suicidal or they're feeling frustrated with them is the most important understanding. So think of it this way. What starts that journey is you have a normal life. It seems pretty good or even seems great and then something they call it the call to adventure something happens that jolts you now it doesn't sound like a called adventure it sounds like extreme stress it sounds like your homeburn down yeah which happened to me 25 years ago here in health i was here a year ago helping people because of what happened right so your home burns down or you're robbed or somebody your family gets diagnosed with a tumor or you do covid shuts down your business and you're like this was my whole life or you lose your

your job or someone in your family gets sick. Everyone on earth is going to go through extreme stress. I don't care how much you love God. I don't care how intelligent you are. I don't care how rich you are. No one escapes it. The question is, do you use stress as a stress use you? And one of the differences that will help you to do that is if you understand this

hero's journey. Because if you're willing to keep going, I say you're going through hell, keep going. Yeah. You will get lessons. You will get experiences. You will do three things if you keep going with extreme stress. You'll, one, figure out how strong you really aren't together. Because that third season, problems happen, but it's all solved together versus it's your fault or your fault or why didn't you do that?

And none of that stuff exists. You're completely unified. So even the tough times are beautiful. And the tough times bring you together much closer than just the good times. When things go well, people party. When things go poorly, people ponder. And it's out of the pondering, get the differences. So what does that hero's journey look like?

Well, you push through. You're going to find out how strong you are. Second, you're going to find out who your real friends are, not your Facebook friends. and thirdly, you'll get an immunity to future stress because when you've been through such intense stress, it's like, by contrast, things are easy now that used to be hard. But that call to adventure looks like this.

I'll use Dorothy. Lerjavaz. Remember the story? Oh, yeah. We actually started dating while we were in a production of that show. Are you serious? That's a good. I was a blind monkey.

We just saw it again at the sphere in Las Vegas. Oh, my goodness. Three-dimensional. Wow. You have to go see it. That's cool. But just remind you because the story most people know, so it'll help you think about it.

So the called adventure is because she has a normal black and white life, right? And it's pretty good. Her big upset is, you know, her dog bit somebody and the woman wants to take her dog away from her. She thinks that's the end of the world. And life wants you to grow. So it doesn't care about your little petty stuff. It's time for to expand.

So she resists it. She resists all the changes that are being put on. So life sends in a hurricane, right? A cyclone. And what does it do? It separates her from everything she knows. It looks like a death. Rips her from her life, takes her to a different place.

Now when you get the different place, you have no choice, but you meet new people, new mentors, right? You have new experiences, and you go on a journey. And there's a point when you commit to that journey where there's no going back. And on that journey, you're going to have some traumas. You're going to have some challenges. You're going to have some trials and tribulations. And you're going to learn over time how to defeat the dragon or whatever it's You in her case, right?

She meets the 10 men. They all have their needs. She thinks she's gonna help them, go see the wizard of us, she's gonna solve it all, right? And they go on the journey and what's happening? The Wicked Witcher the West is coming and trying to destroy them and she goes there

and Oz won't help her. Remember all the story? But in the end, she becomes more. They all become more, right? The straw man realize he does have a brain. The 10 man does have the heart. Yes, I have courage. Courage doesn't mean I wasn't afraid.

So I went through all this with Dorothy and helped her, right? And Dorothy, you realize it's all the powers inside, going home was always at my feet. And she comes home, and when she comes home, she's a different person. She's more. And because she's more, she has something to give. She's the hero of her own life.

So my house burns down. I had, I was, Sage and I both gave about $6 million to people here locally because I was here when I didn't live here, but all these people that literally, they had had 14-day passes to live in a hotel. Like, what are we going to do? So we worked a bunch of organizations here. But the biggest thing is we had to give people a narrative. So I shared them. When my home burned down, it was before your pictures were in the cloud. Everything I existed of my life was gone, burned to the ground. But my family survived, which is all that matters. So I showed my family. That's what we're going to focus on? But then what happened? I moved. So I had to go to a new place where I met new people. I met some new mentors. I developed new skills. I went on a completely different path that changed my life that I wouldn't be this woman without. And I became to hear of my own life. By the way, when you do that and come back, you have something to share. And then when you think it's all.

done, it starts again. You'll have another new challenge that comes. But in between, you have a good time and during that time, they have a good time. So the person that's wanted to commit suicide thinks this is the end when it's actually a called adventure. You're at the edge of being called to a different level. The two of you, you'll get to that third level, I really believe, I can feel the conviction you have for each other. Are there all times you'll question? That's called being human. But if you make it through that third level, you get to the final step later in life, and that is a level of love that is beyond describing. It is where you realize there is a limit to this thing called life,

and so you treasure every moment at a different level. Right? It's different. Think about springtime, zero to 21. You think you're invincible, everything's great. 22 to 42, summertime. It's a frothy time. For most people, it's the most difficult time in their life

because you're trying to figure out who you are, who we are, kids are, how we do it, all that stuff, trying to prove yourself, trying to achieve something. If you work hard in those first two seasons, you'll make it to fall. You know, 44 to 64 is usually the greatest growth period of your life, which where you can do things with your pinky that you couldn't do before working 20 hours a day. You have long-term relationships.

But 65 to 85 to 105 to 125, which is the oldest humans, which is the stage I'm now in, I'm about to be 66. It's the best season of all if you grew doing those of the seasons. Because now, like, you have so much to give, and you're not trying to prove yourself there. You know who the hell you are. You've lived it for 40 years, 50 years, 60 years. You have the loves of your life.

You have the dear friends and business relationships and friendships for 40 or 50 years. You can do more with a pinky than you did full time. So those seasons in a relationship, that final season is one of you is going to pass and it's where you don't want it to happen. It's those relationships you see that chokes me up that like your mommy and daddy, right?

Or like we have where at some point one's going to go and neither one wants to go. And oftentimes I remember, I was with a gentleman, very famous gentleman decades ago. He was in his 90s and he died. His wife died two days later. And I've seen that so many times. Like you don't want to be here anymore without them.

You want to reunite and whatever we think the next level of this experience of life is, you know, the next dimension of it. So I hope it would be helpful to your listeners and for yourselves to think about each season has its own unique challenges. But the secret is to go from focused on self and what I mean my needs to focus on we instead of the, and it's going from, do I get my needs met and control to contribution? It's from focus on self to focus on spirit. Those are the things that cause us to evolve as human beings. Yeah, you talk about some of those like seasons of challenges like in a

marriage and I imagine your journey to parenthood together was not at all what you would have written down as like idyllic or as like what you would have maybe hoped for early on before you had entered that stage. And we also just recently went through a second trimester loss. So a part of me relates to the part of your story so deeply about miscarriage. And I'm sure a lot of people listening have joined our podcast since sharing about our miscarriage that would also be really interested in talking about that season because you were in that season for a while.

Yes. You said like almost 20 years. And we're in that season. And I know a lot of people listening are too. I guess my first question about that is how did that season? of recurring miscarriage affect your marriage? Oh my gosh. Well, I suppose, you know, it's the context. It was our, it was humbling. It was, you know, the disappointments and the loss and also longing to be a mother. I'll tell you what happened for myself is it came from, I want to be a mother. And I got to the point where I actually

didn't think that that was possible. And so there was so much surrender that. That, I let it go. I let it go. And then I recognize that, gosh, this isn't just about me wanting to be a mother. I felt, I felt called. And it came from a different place. It came from a different place. It wasn't scary city and fear. It wasn't about service. It wasn't about me. The first chapter where it was most painful was like, I want to be a mom. I wanted to be a mother so bad. And then through, you know, miscarriage after miscarriage after miscarriage. and I, you know, just I surrendered that. I surrendered that and I was like, okay, well, you know, our life path and we were traveling

and we were traveling at that time close to, gosh, I mean, you know, around the world twice in a year, on average 265 days of the year we were traveling on the road and with events. And then I was like, okay, and I recognized that mothering is a quality, it's love, it's nourishment. And so I started to focus on that. I started to focus on all the aspects. that I already was before I was a mother. And that was healing for me.

That was healing for me. And surrendering in my I-no-mind what I wanted or what I felt my life should be, that was my call to adventure. That was my call to adventure. And I'd never be who I am without that path. I'd never be the mother I am without that path. It's so schooled me.

And it taught me so much. And faith, you know, like a deeper level of faith. and we went through, then I started, a friend of mine was going through IVF and she introduced me, we would never have our daughter if it wasn't for her, Heidi. And I, you know, we went through cycle after, cycle after cycle. Seven years.

Seven years. Two to three times a year I'm holding her hand in every one of these surgeries. And I mean, it was brutal. And then the conflict became, he didn't want me to do it anymore because he was worried about my health. Oh my goodness. And about my well-being. And yet I so wanted to.

I was like, I just, I felt it in me. I really at that point, I was like, I really felt that it was going to happen. And I think through creativity, I think through love, and I think who's ever for your listeners that are out there and on that path, it's just something to hold dear to your heart. And it's something to surrender and to trust in a divine intelligence larger than ourselves. And sometimes like, I don't know, life begins every moment, you know. And I think that that's what it really schooled me is sometimes it's like a moment in time.

or something painful. It's that moment. It's not going to be forever. You know, it's not going to be forever. Life keeps evolving and life keeps you keep growing. And we lived. You became a mama to everybody around you, you know? I think that was what it really schooled me is that like mother energy, it's love.

It's our nature. To nourish, to care for life. And I really expanded that in me. Because before as a younger woman, I was wanting, like I was trying to control it. And I was tightening because, and I was disappointed and I was frustrated and I was sad and I was going to that cycle of my own disappointments. And at that stage, I wasn't feeling fulfilled in life itself because I was closed rather than opening to what life was offering me in the moment, which my life was blessed.

And at times I missed that. I miss that because I was so focused on what life wasn't giving me. Yeah, so what piece of advice would you give to a woman who is in that place right now? It feels like they're waiting for this stage and something's supposed to happen that's not happening. Yes. Well, I can only share, I mean, it sounds trite to say that, you know, to have faith and to trust in life's process. But that's really what really schooled me is I, you know, I fell in love with what is. I fell in love with life.

I fell in love with our life and found such enrichment. You know, you're a mama. You know, you have beautiful children. And my mind was at a certain stage so focused on what wasn't happening that I thought should happen. And, you know, Byron Katie, who's a very dear friend of ours, she always says, you know, you don't have to accept what is. But life is just kinder and saner when we do. It's kinder and saner when we do. I think it's also remembering that there's another way.

You know, in my first marriage, you know, three of my kids were adopted, you know, adopted in my life. There was no difference between them and my blood child in terms of my love for them whatsoever. And so, you know, that still becomes another option. But maybe you can share the miracle than what happened for us. And that's just, once again, like through creativity and love and God's grace, you know, we had a surrogate that ended up being the mother of our child. And through such a level of friendship and such a level of creativity. such a level of willingness. I think that's just what's so beautiful

and to really look a hundred feet above. Because we miss when we're in our pain. I'll speak for myself. When I was in my pain or in what I thought life should be, I missed. I missed the miracle. That was already here right in front of me.

And also just trust in, you know, it was a divine orchestration. You and I woke up. My body's being breathed. Your body's being breed. That's a miracle. Like that's a freaking miracle And we miss that miracle

We miss that miracle But there's a divine wisdom inside of our bodies That's literally breathing our existence That blows my mind And so trust in that Trust in that Because after all these years I never imagined I'd be 47 years old

Having a baby And I'm so grateful And it was so worth the weight And the piece also that's part of this Is even when we've cited We've been through IVF and everything else And then our life was so full She's like, where does a baby fit here?

And I said, honey, it'll fit. But she just couldn't imagine it because our life was insanely full. It still is. But what was interesting was, and then who do you trust to carry your baby? Like some stranger is going to, you know, what's happening? And there was someone in our life that lived with us for 12 years and was our right arm for everything. And we both love as a dear friend traveling to earth with us. And she, how did it happen?

Yes. Well, you know, it was a happening. It was an unfoldman. I never asked her. She never. And one of our other staff members, right? Yes, a very dear friend of ours, Katie, she said, I see it, I can feel it, this is destiny. And so, you know, sometimes like the unexpectedness of a mirror outside of ourselves can show us the way or show us a broader vision than what my own mind could perceive.

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You know, it was a very dear friend of ours. A staff member who said, I see this. Oh, my goodness. A very dear friend of ours, a sister who's just an amazing. woman. She was just so passionate. And so yeah, it's just one of those, you know, divine moments. It just evolved out of the conversation. And at first it was what? But it wasn't like a stranger. It's somebody that we love. We've traveled the earth with, dear, dear friend, 12 years, right? So 10 years. But it was amazing. Her name's Mary. And what's so amazing was then, you know, we tried and it didn't

work. And then. So you began that journey all over again. Even with her didn't work. And it didn't work. Or it didn't happen. But then COVID hit. Yes. And the COVID hit was interesting thing is all of a sudden, we were not traveling. I was used to stadiums. All the stadiums are saying you put 100 people on a stadium, 15,000 people. So I built this studio and we found a way to reach people from this digital studio around the world. And we instead of seeing 15,000 people, we had 50,000 people and then a million people in an event for multiple days. It's like, so we could be home. And so she had a difference. She goes, my instincts are we try it again. I woke up with. morning and it wasn't like let's do it I woke up a morning and I just felt like my soul knew I

knew like it was one of the most certain clear things that I knew to be and I knew that it was going to that we were going to be parents and this was so this is so and we all and also you know just iteration and trying you know we had a particular doctor that we were working with and somebody introduced us to an amazing organization in Colorado and just impeccable, these amazing, and honestly, she wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them. So, you know, just not giving up, not giving up on your dream, not giving up on what's possible, not closing the door. And I think that's probably the biggest lesson that that schooled me is just, you know, life's timing has a rhythm and has its seasons, as Tony just shared, and trust in something larger than yourself. And, and, you know,

And also along the path, appreciate and fall in love with what is because there's miracles in love all around us. And I think, and enjoy that. You know, enjoy that. And you know, Mary who's carried our baby, when she was coming to there, then there was the uncertainty of, is she ever going to see this child again? And she's carried him, and she's been family and friends and everything else. And Sage and I, our hearts were open and we talked about it and thought about it a lot

and said, you know, I'm, you know, much older, you know, stages, you know, 13 years younger than me, and Mary's another 10 years younger. It's like, if something happened to our child, we want her to be able to be the hospital and want something happen, everything else. And so many times often we're traveling, you know, to go in an event.

But as a result of that, what's happened is the state of Florida, I said, you know, I want her to feel, if you do, honey, like she's part of this. And the state of Florida allows you to have three parents. Wow. So we literally went before a judge, during COVID and the lawyers told us, first of all, they spend six months

interviewing everybody, you know, deep psychological research, who are you? What are you doing? It's the most intense piece, which I'm glad they do. They do that on the path of surrogacy. Yeah, in this particular case, and that wasn't just, surrogacy was for this situation. And the judge, the lawyer told us now the judge, he's

not going to make decision, she's not going to make a decision today. It's usually, you'll tell you two, three weeks afterwards. And it was during COVID, so we saw the judge on screen, came on, and we're holding our little one, and Three of us are there. And the woman judge came on and she looked at us. And there was this pause and she looked again.

She dropped her glasses down. She looked. And then she smiled. She's a cool lady. You know, Mary was really worried. He was like, what's going to happen? Is this going to prove or not? And everything else?

And there's a certain amount of it. And she goes, I don't ever say this. But this is already a family. She goes, I feel you. I should feel your love. That is beautiful. Yes. For each other, for your little one.

This is beautiful. This is a family. I'm going to tell you, I've got some questions and things. things they do with it, but she goes, I'm just telling you right now, I'm going to prove this. It was wild. It was God-given. So our daughter has two moms. She has her, you know, mom carried her.

She got her mom here that loves her and she comes from her and she's got me. And so, and so she goes, yeah, I got two moms and one dad. And Mary's with your daughter right now while you guys are here doing press in L.A. That's right. Okay, that's so cool. And so she's a hub, she's surrounded her love. It's a short trip back and forth for her body, right? She does come with us most of the time on pieces, but then marries with her or we switch off each other.

And whose idea was the three parents thing? Like, that's really neat. It came between the two of us just brainstorming. And then we found out that there was a way to do it legally. You know, but also it was like wanted her to be able to go to the hospital to have authority and make something that happens where it started with. But also then, you know, so we have this unique family, these modern families that are come together. And we all love each other and support each other in every way you possibly can.

And I never imagined that, I think also part. of that possibility was my parents' own journey and us growing up in a home that had the diversity of fostered children. And, you know, these children would come into our homes and my parents would say, this is your brother and sister. You shared your room, you shared your toys, you shared your life with them. And I had no clue of the impact of that and the mirror of that and the model of that to love beyond the unit. It's a chosen family. You know, it's an expanding the view of family and my parents really were such an amazing we you know we were raised with different ethnicities in our home and um it really was such a rich environment growing up and i and i see that

fortuitousness of life coming full circle now that we have a chosen family that's so powerful oh go ahead you go ahead i was going to say too um something that stood out that you said earlier talking about when you guys first met you said it felt like coming home yes and that is so beautiful and it just really stuck out to me. And it kind of sparks the question in my mind of like, is this love at first sight that you guys experienced or do you describe it as something different? There was a spiritual connection at first presence. Because, you know, I'm tall and hairy and she used to date small guys that word Harry. And my view of what a woman would be didn't match what she was. Even the most beautiful woman in the world. But then you have your, whatever you, the conditioning has been, right?

So mine was small and dark and not blonde hair and all these. weird things. And so I didn't, the connection was so, so bizarre. You know what I mean? You were too saying? No, but I mean different. Weird because I look up with the beauty that I have beside me. But then what happens is, you know, you fall in love and then all that stuff changes. None of that stuff matters anymore. And we were friends first, which is what I really encourage people do. We're best friends first. And so it's like sometimes people have like a peak experience of their intimate and then where do they go from there. But our relationship was built on such a deep foundation that we can have everything. And then when the intimacy we turned on as well,

it just went through the roof, you know, so it's there. So I don't know, I would say it's first recognition. Recognition. You know, it was like, it was almost like, recognition, more than attraction in the beginning. First of all, it's so unique the way that you parent together with, with your surrogate and how you legally are a family together. That is, that is really, really neat. I don't call a surrogate, honestly. Yeah, yeah. There's mother and mama right here. Mama and mama and there's daddy, right? And now, and she has those experiences. Yeah, how does your like call you well my daughter calls me mom okay mom and mama and uh you know I think it's it's interesting it's been an unfolding like it wasn't something that we decided upon it's

something she decided mm-hmm she calls her mommy he's daddy and and I think you know like we all have different qualities of an expression and and my mom and dad used to always say honey Bonnie Pearl you're a product of love that's what he'd always say to me and I didn't really understand and now I see our daughter, I'm like, wow, she's a product of love, and she's surrounded by love. That's really all. She's a loving soul. She's such a loving heart.

It's ridiculous. She's all heart, you know, and she meets somebody, hugs them, loves on them. She's conscious about who somebody is. She's very energetic, but when she gets who they are, like she has a best friend. She's known since she was, what, probably four months, six months. Four months, yeah. And I'm like, this is like a love affair between the two of them.

They just adore whether she's like, I love you like my sister. They just adore one another. Yeah. I saw a social media clip. I wanted to congratulate you because in the clip, you were talking about how recently you became a millionaire, I apologize, billionaire. And I was thinking it must be hard to have that much success

and not like spoil the crap out of your kid. Because you probably love the heck out of her and then you have all these resources. Like how do you, you know, you had a rough upbringing. But now your daughter, from what it sounds like, is having a pretty awesome upbringing. But the rough upbringing you had, made you the man you are today.

True. So how do you approach that with your daughter? I think you're going to decide what we together, as parents, decide what's the most important thing. And to me and to Sage, the most important thing is that she realizes that life is not here for her to get. Life's for her to give something to give. I believe that the people that are the happiest humans are, the people that found something they care about more than themselves to serve. We have a mission besides our love affair of who we are. We have a love affair of serving, our daughter, our family, the world.

and so getting her to understand that and be connected to that and understanding her sense of responsibility. And Sage is incredible at talking to her like she's an adult and saying this is what we're doing, this is why we're doing it, honey, and she's super warm and super connected, but she understands everything is a choice. And we make sure that, you don't want to do that.

And then no problem. And mom doesn't have to let you have this party time or this other time. Everything is a choice where she makes the choice. So she has autonomy and she makes decisions at, four and a half years old that are really unique. And she has, excuse me. But then you have to be aware of just the level of abundance is insane. I, you know, we stayed at this house, which is 35,000 square feet.

We live in a 25,000 square feet home. My daughter actually said to me one day, because we stayed here for two weeks. She goes, Daddy, how come we don't live in a big house? Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. But the grounding is in her heart and her soul. The grounding is her sense of service. her grounding is her sense responsibility and i give an unbelievable credit to sage in this area because

she is has all over this at a level you know i do it too but she's really all over at making sure that our daughter is grounded and that groundedness is i really believe that we're all here to be useful humans there's enough useless humans on the and i'll tell her that i'm like honey this world doesn't need another useless human i'm like we're meant to be useful and so she's four years old she makes her bed, she takes the laundry out, she sets her table, she clears the table. The other day she was, it was cute because she was clearing the plate and the garbage. And she was like, Mom, it's stinky. And I said, well, Mom does that.

I clear the plate. I said, it doesn't smell good. I said, if I do it, you can do it. You do it. You know, I think that's reality. And so I think sometimes we come from, we've overcorrected, you know, we've overcorrected, you know, we've overcorrected as a society that kind of the helicopter parent of wanting to protect and, you know, not cause our, yes, or cause our children to contribute to life.

And so I'm very aware of that, very aware of that. And also just the notion of, you know, we, whatever toys she has, if she's not using them, we go and bless other people's life. And so that blessedness and that fortuitousness. But, you know, it's something that I'm conscious of every day in keeping her grounded in a really big world. But I think the principles of that, you know, my parents taught me to work. It wasn't so much about education. My father had a grade six education.

My mother had a grade 10 education. But they taught me to work. They taught me to be very useful. And I'm grateful for that humble upbringing because it really schooled me. And I can see that very much bestowed upon our daughter. You know, your kids don't do what you say. They watch what you do. They really do.

And this lady here and I both have a level of work ethic that most people would never dream of. I'm not exaggerating that. I try to her, not heard work like that, but that's like calling pot cutting kettle black, right? So we both do that. But she sees that. She experienced that. And we explained to her why we're doing it. It's like, well, why do we got to do that? It's like, we're here to serve, honey. You know, this is what we do. You know, you live in this environment because of our service to people. And so she's, even though she's four and a half, she's already begun to understand those elements and those dynamics. And then it's just keep it grounded, right?

How do you guys manage work-life balance? How do you also manage working together too? Because that's not easy, being married and working with your spouse. Actually, that's the easiest part. At this stage, it's the easiest part. At the beginning, you know, we found our way. But it's a joy to work together. I think as well, like, I'm sure, like the two of you, you know, you have different gifts.

We have different gifts. And I'm not who he is. He's not who I am. And I think when you recognize that, you know, and you both, we look at it as like currency. Yeah. You know, like, it's like he is his puzzle piece. I have my puzzle piece and you come together and... And we respect and love each other's puzzle piece, you know, that's there, you know.

Different elements. And we have different kind of division of responsibility to a certain extent that we didn't just put in stone, it evolved. And it's just clear that each of us have different gifts in each area. And we prosper in that way to support each other and support the family. But I can't imagine that work in my wife because it's the most enjoyable human I could be with. So why wouldn't I want to be with her 24 hours a day? When I hear a couple saying, you know, I want to tear her eyes out, we've had those moments.

Totally. What's an example of one of those moments? I remember one time, early, early on, we used to do QVC, and it was before, like, iPads or iPhones or something. And I was, like, packing up, and we were, like, heading out and we were going somewhere. And he came in, and he was really passionate, looking for, he used to have this black RPM journal, his black journal that he always wrote in. And he was like, where's my black journal?

And I'm like, what on earth? Like, you show me where my P.m. and he's our, I'll show you where your black turtle is. Like, what the heck? But we would, you know what I mean? You grow up. And you also laugh. And you laugh.

Like we really, I actually cracked them up at that moment. But you know, you love one another and you, you know, you break the patterns. You break the pattern. But you have your moments. Of course, you drive each other crazy. That's like, you know what I mean? But you get over that. Was that hard also.

And as the time goes by, the things that used to drive you crazy, you start to you start to appreciate. You adore. Yes, completely. Was it also hard coming from, previous relationships and then learning to then live together and learning to navigate your relationship? No, I think there's just, there was so much love there. I don't think so. I think the biggest challenge was Sage came from a very small, tight community. She never traveled anywhere.

She had extreme motion sickness, which I didn't know. And then next thing you know, I'm Mr. Motion. She's on a plane to train a helicopter every day and she was throwing up on the way up, on the way down. Oh, gosh. We went through nine years of that, taking every doctor, every healer, everything, and finally got healed. But that was probably the most stressful part. of our life because I was feeling like is God making me, I'm going to pick my mission or pick me with my wife. I want to be with her, and she wanted to think God wanted to be with me.

She was incredibly durable during those times. Oh, my word. It was painful. I was young. It was painful. How did you heal that? Oh, my word. You know, that's a long story,

but loads of grace and once again, not giving up and, you know, trying different things. But at this stage, you know, I travel very differently. But I think also, I think, you know, Tony mentioned something earlier, like the differences. Like, we have so many things that complement, but Tony has much more external energy. I have more internal energy. But, you know, I think we come together to mirror. You know, like I've claimed so much more of him. He's claimed

so much more of me. I think that's a real purpose of love and relationship. It's like discovering our different parts in one another. And I think we're mirroring and reflecting our different parts. And it's like you start to, I'm sure, because of the two of your relationship and then continue of your relationship. You've grown because of him. You've grown because of her. And we've experienced that. And I think that's the beauty of love.

I also think that's a beauty of love. I also think in a relationship, oftentimes you're attracted to someone because they have qualities that you're attracted to you think are different than you. But they're actually part of you. You've just disidentified with them because early in your life,

you're shaped by whoever's love you want most. So you're brand new baby. You're open to anything, right? But then you learn, I've got to be a certain way to be loved. I have to be quiet or I have to be successful or I have to never give up or after. And so whoever's the greatest source of love,

meaning I'm sure you love both your parents, but whose parent, which one of your parents did you crave the love of most? Abby. We had this conversation last night because of researching yourself. And I think we had different answers. I was saying my dad probably.

And you said your mom. I think it's my mom. Yeah. And so who did you have to be for your mom? Oh gosh. Okay. Just say it on top of your head. Okay.

I just had to be perfect. I had to like perform. I had to be like there was high expectations, you know? I didn't want to eff it up. Yes. And who could you never be? Oh gosh. I'm scared.

I guess it was hard to be that person, you know? That's right. But are there some big part of you still today? Do you still strive in those areas? Yeah. Yeah, because it created your model of the world. And for you with your dad, who did you have to be for your dad? I think it had to be strong.

Okay. What else did you have to be? I haven't thought about this. Just out of the top of year, I try not to filter it. Just like first gut reaction. I had to be strong. I had to be. Had to be successful, like the best.

Yes. And so look, two people have to be the best come together and put a podcast. And by the way, do you still have those drives? Sometimes yes. The answer is yes, right? So as you evolve, though, what starts to happen in a relationship is you both have qualities in each other that are different. So like, let's say, for example, I make it, it's not the two of you. Let's say somebody is really, the powers, they step in and they take charge and they make shit happen.

And the other partner goes, wow, that's inspiring to see them do that. Like, take over a room, make it happen, right? Why do they like that? That part exists in them, but it's disidentified with because it wasn't in alignment with the model of the world that their parents wanted them to be. But you're unconsciously moved towards it. Like, why do you certain like certain people? Unconsciously, you want more of that. So in a relationship, you feel that attraction.

But the same things, you ever had seen this in a previous relationship, the same things that you really liked in the relationship after a while pissed you off? Like, why does he always have to take the room? Why can't he shut the hell up? Why is he always loud? Or why is she always thinking this? The very things you like, and the reason you don't like them anymore is because you've never claimed them for yourself.

So now what used to be something you liked and unconsciously you liked in them because it was a call for you to find that part of yourself. if you don't find that part of yourself, now you start to despise it, and that's where a lot of relationships end. Do you mean when you used to think that I was quiet? That's what you need to claim. Okay, that hasn't happened yet.

He used to think I was quiet too. He was reminded. I think of spontaneity. I feel like a lot of people are like attracted to spontaneity. Like when you're dating, you're like, it's so fun and exciting. And then you're married, you're like, why can't you just get a calendar and like put it on there?

We moved from Missouri to Hawaii after a, a year. No, was it six months of thing together? A year and a half together. We moved to Hawaii. Something like that. Because I'm spontaneous. I was like, let's get out of here. I'm sick of these cornfields. Let's go somewhere cool. And that was really fun. It's always in Hawaii. I was like, why didn't we think this

through? So I totally relate to that. But there's some part of spontaneity that's in you that is not fully developed. And if you don't appreciate and develop more in yourself, in the future you can be annoyed by his spontaneity. And I admire Abby's confidence. She is like so sure of herself.

She she does, like she truly does not care what other people think. Like we've had this conversation before where if someone, like if I'm meeting you people, I want them to like me. I want everyone to like me. I don't know why. I don't know if it has something to do with us being entertainers and having an entertainer background. But like with her, she truly will think about if someone doesn't like vibe well, she thinks it's something wrong with them. Not with her. I mean, this is such an interesting way.

No, I wish I was that way. Like, I don't know. But by the way, so at this stage you like, you appreciate that. Yeah. At some point, you're going to have to find that inside yourself or you'll resent it in her. Gosh, how do you find that inside yourself? Well, let's take, what's the quality in him that you've been attracted to? Spontaneous.

Okay, great. So where are you spontaneous? I feel like I lost a lot of it, but. Well, with two children, everything else, it starts to feel that way. So, but let me ask this question. Where could you be more spontaneous where would go? or joy to your life. Or more love or more fun.

I feel like we can be more spontaneous with date nights. Nice. That's nice. Yeah. So if you initiate those and you are the initiator of him, now you may want him to do it as well and understand that, but if you initiate those and you do it because you want to and because you're identifying, hey, I am spontaneous,

then you actually feel more attracted to him. Okay. Yes. And then if he looks at those qualities in you and he takes more of those on and starts saying, yeah, that's in there. Don't tell myself it's not in there, just because I haven't expressed it, just because I've always tried to please everybody. And part of it is, you know, you're, would you say your 37?

27, we're both 27 years old. This is not being disrespectful. I hope you can feel my state. Yeah, yeah. When I was 27, I thought I was a man. You're not a man until you're about 40, just so you know. Maybe 50. Maybe 50.

60 keeps getting better. Like wine, truly. What I mean by that is, your ownership of yourself will increase as, as you confront difficult times and difficult situations, including the ones together, right? Where you don't retreat, where you still find the way to move forward, where you find a way to serve something more than yourself.

That's what it means to be a man. A man would die for his country, for his family, for his children, right? Without hesitancy. That quality of a man, not, I'm here to get what I want. If I don't get it, I'm a pissy, or I'm sad, or I feel sorry for myself, or I'm mad at you, it's like, graduating that place where you begin to realize

when life is about what I'm here to bring. And the more of that happens for you, and part of that, and it's not being disrespectful in any way, I'm sure you can feel what I'm coming from. It just, it takes time. It's like it's an experience that you need to uncover. You just don't have those experiences yet. But life's gonna give them to you

because you're gonna get calls, right? The call to adventure, it won't feel like adventure, but if you don't hesitate and you go on it and you immerse yourself and you learn those new skills and you slay your own dragons, you'll be the hero at a different level, and then you'll have more to give her, more to give your kids.

When you said, you know, I stick around for my kids, I wouldn't feel very good to her. No, that was being honest, but at the same time, what is that? I want her to know. He's only saying that because he's 27 years old and because there are times when he feels uncertain with your confidence and certainty that he's enough.

And so underneath that, he's always enough for these kids because they can't stay squat, two and three years old. And they're not gonna leave me, but as I said, because you've never had teenagers. So it's not that he loves you less. it's there's an unconscious fear in everybody that maybe I'm not enough. The deepest fear everyone has. Everyone.

I've dealt with kings, queens, presence countries, people in prisons, every level you imagine. We all have a fear that we're not enough at some point for those we love most. Not funny enough, not smart enough, not strong enough, not rich enough, not intelligent enough, not something enough. And that leads to a much deeper fear, which is if I'm not enough, I won't be loved. And love is the oxygen of life. So what most of us do, this is the thing you've got to be careful of both of you is a trap,

is we go to love that is certain love. Certain love is our children. That's why people go to their kids and they sublimate and they cost their own relationship. Right? As opposed to uncertain love, which actually creates passion. Because there's no passion

in what's absolutely certain. All passion is found in the realm of uncertainty. Surprise, those elements, right? So as you both grow, it isn't him, because if I was in your shoes as a woman, I'd be thinking, yeah, great, he loves my kids, what do you know, deal with me? And what kind of thing to say, right?

But what he's really saying is, I'm uncertain in this about you for him, not him for you. And that will grow as you both go through things together and come closer together versus further apart. And then there'll be a point where there'll be no question that it's you. Wow.

Right? And he'll grow into that. And you can also grow into that. I don't know where your head's at in those areas, but you're going to have places at times, even though you have that certainty he's talking about, there'll be places where you don't have that certainty at some point, or your biochemistry won't allow you to have that certainty, right?

You're going through things that no man will ever understand. But it goes through in a 30-day period. You would never understand the biochemical storms of them goes through, much less having children, and going to all those pieces. I'm scared. I said, way to your 40s and 50s. My mom.

Oh, no, life only gets better. Even with all of it, life only gets better with age. But we just got some individual marriage counseling. I love the counseling session. That was helpful. That was good. That was really, really good. I don't think about that for a long time.

Like the thought of like you start to dislike the thing that once attracted you because you have lost touch with that and yourself. That's right. Or you haven't grown that part. You never thought about that. Yeah. I see the pattern. I can't tell you.

Both of you individually, like apart from each other, both said when we were talking about marriage and love, it gets better. You both said the same thing not knowing that each other has said the same thing. And I think that is so refreshing because we are just like just now. leaving that like newlywed stage where especially because we got married so young and your high school sweethearts so many people that had been married many more years than us were like just wait like I know it's all rainbows and butterflies now but just wait and I think that they had good intentions saying like you know life is going to get harder for you and

therefore marriage like everything else just gets a little bit more challenging but it will get harder in places but it'll also get better right and then it won't be harder right right and You have to grow through it. You grow through it and you come up with like, I remember we were going through, well, we were, you know, we just miscarried and we were going through a lawsuit. And we were both so stressed. And we were speaking in a way that was unlike ourselves. And I was being harsh and intense and it felt like that from him. And we had a moment we were in the kitchen.

Remember we were living in the desert? And I said to him, I'm like, honey, like, I love you way too much to speak this way. And that moment really, like it was a pattern interrupt. And we, from that point, it's like you catch yourself. You catch yourself in the middle of the madness. And it's just, and say I'm sorry. It's like, honey, I see myself. I'm behaving so ridiculous.

I think if I was to say one thing that why we are here is we both take responsibility. And I think, you know, the old way is, you said this, you did that, you know, you big jerk or whatever, both ways. And so it's the external blame or the external demonization. relationships really change when it's like it's me it's me and he takes you have no it's my phone and we take responsibility and there's such freedom in that you know like there's such freedom and just like I love you and I'm sorry and I see how I was just being versus you did this it's like I I and I think at this stage of our life that's the greatest freedom and just the other day you know I walked out of the room and I saw myself in my mind's eye and I'm like well that was a little

dramatic. And so I walked back in and I'm like, honey, I'm sorry. I just, you know, I was feeling stressed and I was overwhelmed and I was so short in the moment. And there's such freedom and just saying, I'm sorry. And beginning again. Like it's just because life gives you the moment. And I look at NC which is going through with her mom, which is going through every day, you know, and running with our businesses. You're human beings. Running what's going on. Like, how could she not feel that way? Right. So I don't take it personal at this stage of my life. I did it at an earlier stage of my life. Absolutely. No question I did.

Yes. But what part of we're here to do is to help you shorten the cycle of learning so you can have less pain and more pleasure and more joy and more happiness and more fulfillment. Taking responsibility is freedom. It's huge. And the other part is we're really good at most people don't know how to ask for what they really need. And we have a simple code. It's like, honey, this would be meaningful to me.

If you know, if you do this, it would really be meaningful. And either one of us here, it's meaningful from the other one. It's done. There's no discussion. We just do it because we love each other because we want the other one to be happy. meaningful is a code word that there's so many things that happen in life you might be talking about or asking for or making it happen but when we say that we both zero in and say okay we got it we've even taught it to our daughter and he would Tony was just going to um not football baseball game up in

Canada uh for the world series for the world series baseball game in Canada seventh game of the world series with the Dodgers own a piece of right as a owner was going to this baseball game in Canada team all something yeah but life was full at the time and he asked me if I wanted to go and I didn't want to go I just wanted to stay home I wanted to be at my jammies I wanted to have a bath I wanted to read a book and so I said to him I was like honey

like look I'm game like if you want me to go if it's meaningful I'll go and he was like no honey it's like no not a problem at all but like that clarification of that's what I meant to her a baseball game in Canada not the seventh care of the World Series and team you on a piece after so why would I make her

she has a different meaning than I do her why would I make her go do that. So it's just, I want to be with her, but I can pop up for the game and come back with my friends and make it happen. In my mind, I was like, is there good hot dogs? If there was a great hot dog this woman, it's always hungry. She eats 24 hours day. Our daughter knows it. It's like, she's always counseling her. Don't eat all that mom. Hey, owning part of the LA Dodgers, do you at least get free hot dogs when you go? Is that part of the perks? You get free hot dogs. Okay, that's good. That's good. Maybe a good seat too. I don't know. Very good seats. Well, we want to be really respectful of your old's time, but I just can't say

what an honor it was to get to sit down and have a conversation. It's been such a gift to be with the two of you. And I know you have a free seminar coming up very soon, time to rise. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? Yeah, just real quick. We started it during COVID because everybody was stuck in their homes. And it's like, you know, we have, you know, 121 businesses, companies, different companies. So it wasn't a business thing.

It's like, this is our mission. How do we help people? Yeah. I was like, okay, they're stuck at home. How do we help them not travel and spend no money whatsoever and help them? And I said, well, let's do a seminar. But two, three hours would be a great seminar. It's like, let's do three days, two or three hours a day.

They don't have to leave their house or they're at their work. They can experience it. It's like going to a movie, but the movie changes your life. And we're going to show them how to increase their energy, figure out what's going on the relationship, figure out how to shift what they're doing in their business and make these changes. And they're part of a community.

We've had, on average, a million people each year do this. We only do it once a year. Oh, my goodness. And it's free. It's totally free. Wow. It's coming up January 29 through the 31st. And so it's like 2 o'clock in the afternoon

And we have people from 193 countries that participate And then we have a Facebook group So you've been part of this community And people making all these cool changes But if they go to Time to Rise Summit.com Time to Rise Summit.com register again There's no cost for it And then we'd love to be able to serve people

For those three days. Amazing. Okay. It comes right to you. It's free. It's coming up right very soon. Instead of starting your new year with runs of resolutions you don't follow on

Let's get you a plan. Let's get your dollar, right? Everything that we've been speaking about, whether you're a parent, it's like, you know, kids don't learn from what we say. They learn from how we are. And so, and same with, in relationship, it's like, it's a way to live intentionally. And the results are so powerful. The miracles from this program is just unbelievable. And we go deeper into relationship there as well. And, yeah, it's one of our favorite things we do, our time to buy summit. Amazing. I know you've changed so many lives. And you're so sweet to be

worried about being disrespectful to us, but we are just like amazed by your both, of your wisdoms and like the things that you can do. And so it's, it's our honor to get to learn from you. Thank you. Thank you. Our honor to be with you. Come join us at the summit. Please.

That would be amazing. You gotta come to a live event too. You'll be blown away. We want to. We really want to. You have a great experience. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Amazing. People that won't sit for a three hour movie go 12 hours a day with us for four days and nights. A stadium, the guy at the very top of the stadium will be full till 10 hours into it. Oh my goodness. We got dragged there by somebody else. There's nothing quite like it. I've heard the energy is something that you can't even quite describe.

It's like you imagine your biggest rock concert. I remember one of my friends was a coach Riley. You may know Pat Riley who coached some major teams in Miami. I was an owner there. And he went one time and he said, this is like the seventh game of the NBA championship. He goes, but he goes on for 12 hours a day for four days. So it really is like that.

It's a blast for people. And that's why time disappears because, you know, when you're having a good time, time's gone, right? You know, when you're not enjoying it, a minute feels like eternity. So it's a great experience. We look forward to having you guys share it with us. Amazing.

Tony, Sage, thank you so much. Thank you, seriously. Time to Rise Summit.com. Go check it out. All right. Did I say that right? Yeah, I think you did. Okay, perfect.

Thank you. Thank you, guys. Awesome.