The Vault Unlocked - How to Build Real Wealth From Nothing (The System a $600M Manager Actually Uses)

Episode Date: May 27, 2026

Most people are not investors. They are spenders with investment accounts. They make decent money, move some of it around, and wonder why the number never compounds into anything real. The diagnosis is not the portfolio. It is the decision that came before it. This conversation breaks that down. Wes Rowlands from Atikan Wealth Partners grew up poor, moved to California with nothing, slept on a floor for years, and built his way to managing nearly $600 million in assets. He did not get there by finding the right tip or timing the market. He built a system. A framework for how wealth actually gets constructed, layer by layer, decision by decision, over decades. What separates this conversation from the standard finance content you have already heard is that Wes does not talk about tactics. He talks about the order of operations. Most people jump to investing before they have solved for earning. Most savers think they are being disciplined when they are actually falling behind inflation. Most owners have no idea whether their assets are productive or just speculative. These are not small distinctions. They are the difference between building generational wealth and running in place. Wes introduces a decision tree that every financial leader needs to run before a single dollar moves: Owner, Lender, Spender, or Saver. Then he breaks down the difference between speculative assets and productive assets, why one is a hard game almost nobody wins, and why the other is how serious wealth has always been built. He also covers financial escape velocity, the moat money concept, and why the biggest wealth problem most people have is not what they think it is. Kayvon and Wes also get into what it actually costs to build something real. The years. The floor sleeping. The 24-cent meals. The patience required to stay in the game long enough for the compounding to matter. This episode is for founders, operators, and business owners who are already generating income and want to understand how to make it compound. It is not for people looking for shortcuts or stock tips. If you are serious about personal finance as a leadership discipline, not a hobby, this is the conversation. Topics Covered The wealth building order of operations: make it, save it, grow it Owner vs Lender vs Spender vs Saver: the first decision every financial leader must make Speculative assets vs productive assets and why the distinction determines your outcome Financial escape velocity: what the number is and how to calculate it for your life Moat money: the short and medium term capital buffer that protects long-term assets Why saving alone will not build wealth and how inflation quietly destroys purchasing power Generational wealth: how it gets built, how it survives, and how it gets destroyed The 2% principle: why most of your success comes from factors outside your control and what you owe that fact What going all in actually looks like when there is no safety net Why most people misdiagnose their wealth problem as an investment problem       Looking to dive deeper into these conversations and connect with our host and guest? Follow Wes Rowlands: Instagram LinkedIn YouTube Learn more on Wes' Website Learn more about Atikan Wealth Partners  Follow Kayvon: Instagram Facebook LinkedIn TikTok     Want to go deeper with Kayvon? Subscribe to the newsletter Book a discovery call Get your Revenue Engine Scorecard™️ Hire the right salespeople

Most founders are obsessed with making money. Very few know how to keep it. And almost nobody knows how to grow it into something that outlast them. Today's guests went from watching his mother raise him on $9 an hour to managing nearly $600 million in assets. His name is Wes Rollins. And what he is going to share with you today is not a get rich quick story. It is a blueprint for understanding the three phases every dollar has to pass through before it becomes real. wealth. Let's unlock it. Today we got Wes Rollins with us. Wes, I just want to say, welcome to the show. I'm excited to get into this. I know for the viewers that are listening, we're talking about wealth management today and the portfolio you created from being, I think it was from the bottom to the top. So I'm excited to get into your story and actually even get into maybe where the markets are

today and what people can do. So Wes, welcome. Hey, thank you, brother. It's an honor to be here, man. Yeah, I'm down to go down whatever roads you want. So I'm ready for the rock and roll ride, buddy. I love it. I love it. So just so we're all everyone listening. We're all on the same page. Why don't you tell us a little bit about kind of who you are and like a little bit how you got to where you are today? I think you said you're doing almost over $600 million under management. Like that's no, you know, no joke there. So, you know, where do you go from, you know, to even get into that point? Yeah. So I think. how I normally kick these things off is I won the ovarian lottery like Warren Buffett says. So my mother is the best human on the planet. My dad left when I was four years old and left my mother to raise me on $9 an hour. And somehow she was able to pull it off. I still literally to this day have no idea how she was able to pull that off,

gave me all the gifts from a social perspective that I could have ever asked for. when we when i was 11 we were we got another eviction notice from our apartment so it prompted me to go work and as the universe you know gifted me a blessing i worked at a local country club like on the rich side of town yeah because every other business would not hire me because i was too young i knocked on literally every single business store that i could the golf club was the only one that would take me on and the number one rule of being a caddy was do not speak unless spoken to so again, another blessing. So I just got to sit there and absorb all of these conversations. That's where it got planted into my head of getting to Wall Street, investing, and so on.

So I kept up that pattern. I worked literally all throughout grade school, high school, and college, and eventually got to Wall Street and then moved on and helped build a firm. And now I own a firm, one of three partners, and we currently manage about almost $600 million. The markets have been down the last couple weeks, so it fluctuates. But yeah, that's roughly the story. So as you were talking and you're mentioning basically how hard working your mom was, $7, $7 an hour. I think back to my mom doing the same thing.

But what really hit me was I could hear it in your conviction, in your voice, like, how did she do it? And right away, I was thinking about my mom and I was thinking, how do they do it? So this isn't part of the show, but just for all the moms out there, I just want to say, we salute you. Thank you for giving us the power and the vision and doing the hard work so we can live the lives we live. To all the great mothers out there, amen. Back to, back to Wes over here. So, Wes, I know you have a firm where you, you know, we talked about $600 million, you know, under management.

Um, where, where did that start? Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah. So I've only done finance professionally for like my my professional career. So since the age of 18 and the long short of it is I was able to get to the stock exchange, get to Wall Street, et cetera, et cetera. And then I had a, another great blessing. A mentor reached out to me and said, hey, you know, if you come out here to California and help me build my book of business, I'll allow you to build your clientele as well. And that was all I needed because on Wall Street, I was doing institutional finance and I loved it, but I wasn't 100% infatuated with it. And the reason I got into finance was because of my story, right? Like, how can I actually impact families? So the corny phrase, I know it sounds like this,

but it's what I actually believe is I want to change my family tree and help others do the same. Yeah. When you do that at the institutional level, you're just several standard deviations away from that sort of nucleus. So the writing was on the wall. like, hey, I got this blessing from the universe again. Let's take it and run with it. And it was an amazing journey. So that gentleman, his name was Dave. He was absolutely phenomenal.

And I was able to piece together from the gifts that were given to me on Wall Street and say, hey, well, let's just apply this over here. And he was bringing in about $1.25 million of new money per year, which was good. It's not outstanding, but he's been doing it for a long time. and it just needed a fresh pair of eyes. So anyway, it was a really good deal for me. And then to put it in perspective, start building our both of our books of business and then create another company and then create another company after that.

So now there's Attican wealth partners that's almost a holding company for several other companies. And they all all roll up into about $600 million. And to put it in perspective, same thing I learned in caddying. If you just learn and absorb things and then just apply the things that you you learn as easy as it and simple as it sounds. It's literally that simple. So last year we brought in, I think it was like close to $80 million.

So you go from like $1 million to $80 million of new money. And don't get me wrong. I am not, I'm only responsible maybe for like 2% of any of the success that I have. And I mean that for all of us. If you think about where we were born, the fact that we are, are whatever race and gender and height and all of these things that contribute to all of our success. All we have to do is just do the last 2%. Yeah.

I mean that sincerely. None of my success is owed to me at all. I'm the minority, you know, impact maker on my success. But I do think that's an important message for everybody here. I also do think it's an obligation to fully maximize that 2%. That I love. That last comment, it is it is an obligation. It's your due to.

I don't know what is like one in a billion chance or something like that, right, of being even born. And then you have a duty no matter what background you come from. You have a duty to represent that 2% with all the forces of life. Man, I really, really, really like that because it just changes the perspective of how you show up every day. And it makes it and you kind of take it off you and you make it to the bigger force. Like this isn't even about you. This is my duty to why I'm here. So I really do like that.

And it seems like this was a driven factor for you from like from the get go. And I can tell in your voice when you're talking about not just being, you know, honoring that 2% but leaving the big corporate world, right, and trying to help be closer to helping more families, never have to go deal with what your mom did or what my mom had to go through. What, what was it that there was always a. there's always something that changes. There's like the thing that goes you just said from like, you know, a one billion, you know, one million to 80 million in a year. Like what was going on or

what was that change that happened where all of a sudden you just caught fire and everything just started working. Everything started working smoother and easier. So it was actually a psychological change because there was a time where it was just really tough. So just so everybody has texture, it's not like a sob story. But so when I moved out to California, I put everything I had back into the business, like everything. I slept on, I was lucky enough. I actually lived with Dave for a little while, but then after that, I felt like a burden. So I was like, I don't want to do this.

Like, you know, I need to, you know, I need to get out of my own. So I slept on the floor. I rented a room that was maybe like eight by eight. And I had four other housemates in there. And I rented the smallest room. So it was the smallest amount of rent. And I literally slept on the floor for, I think it was like three or four years. and I just wanted it to go down in history of I'm either going to fail

knowing that I went all chips on the table or I'm going to be successful. I did not want a failure and it's like, oh, but I just casually did it. So literally, dude, I bought chicken on sale, chicken breast on sale every month at this place called Sprouts in Southern California. when it would go on sale it was on sale for i forget what it was like a dollar 20 a pound so i'd buy 180 pounds of chicken per month so that way i saved money on my protein and i would buy a 50 pound bag of rice and a 25 pound of black beans that you can get for like 50 pounds of rice you can get i forget what was at the time like 15 bucks maybe and your and your beans it was like

the same ratio that fed me my calorie for minimum an entire month minimum. So my cost per meal was, I forget what it was at the time, like 24 cents per meal. Wow. So I just wanted zero excuses. My car was a piece of shit car.

Sorry, I don't know if you're a lot of cursing on here. Yeah, it's all good. Didn't have air conditioning. And I would have to drive three days a week, two hour, about an hour and a half to two hours each way in Southern California. So I'd be sweating my face off to go and consult for a company out there on their finances, et cetera.

Anyway, I'm not saying that as, oh, Wes is trying to brag or look for any sympathy. No, it's like whoever is on the journey of success, that at least in my opinion, is oftentimes what is required. And however long you're thinking it's going to take, at least for me, it took 10 times longer. So how long are you willing to suffer for what you want?

I love Wall. That's going to be a quote. right there. How long are you willing to suffer for what you truly want? It goes to the quote. I'll never forget this when I was when I first started in commission sales like first career job, anything out of school in real life. At that time, my mentor said to me, Kavon, what are you willing to do in the next three to five years that most people won't in order to live a life that most people will never have? And he would just say that to me every single day. And what you just said is it just it's it's the testament of that you know and people just always think there's some

such thing as overnight success uh-uh no such thing you just haven't seen all the beats up like the tear downs and the losses and the the like long nights and even even getting a little bit of success then losing it a little success then losing little success and it's and i love it it's it's tenacity and it's whoever stays the longest in the game is going to win that's for sure no doubt about it duration man and it's and it's uh it's it's interesting because it seems like, and I, and because I talked to a lot of entrepreneurs, and it seems like a lot of business owners, a lot of entrepreneurs, they have the same story. Like, they have this thing, which I call in, in my assessment that we, we do for our company,

it's called the athlete DNA. And it's this, it's this grit. It's this competitive drive. It's a chip on the shoulder. And the most important one is they hate to lose more than they love to win. No doubt about it. I'm 100% in that category. Yeah, I could tell.

I could tell you, you kind of said it and you went all in. So here's something, it's not the podcast, but I think it's really important is why are people so afraid to go all in? I see it every day. Like they have this idea. They have these dreams. They have these aspirations. They want to live more.

But they have every excuse in the world except the all in button. They're afraid to just burn it all down to build what they actually truly want. Yeah, my hypothesis would be that it's actually the inverse to me. Why on earth would we go all in when we have immediate comfort? Like it's a very rare breed who says, yeah, you know, I could have this comfortable lifestyle, but I could risk it all and maybe not have my comfortable lifestyle, nor the big grandiose vision. So I see it as like, yeah, we got to be kind of crazy,

which is the prerequisite, in my opinion, the prerequisite for big things happening is having an enormous vision to make it so appealing that it's a no-brainer. I'm going to get through all of the crap because I know it's worth it. So for me, it was that commitment to change my family tree. every dude literally every single obstacle i encounter as corny as it sounds i ask myself is this going to get me closer to changing my family tree for the better yes or no there is no binary it's a yeah i'm sorry there's no there's no spectrum here it is a yes or no it's a binary question if the answer is yes

i do it 100% of the time i love man you're talking my language truly i i i'm i'm i'm just i'm absorbing because what a great question to ask yourself, is this helping me change my family tree yes or no? And what a way to anchor also into the vision? Because you know what you don't want. See, this is a problem that I see a lot of business owners. They don't even know what they don't want. You don't need to know necessarily what you do want,

but you've got to be so damn clear on what you don't want. And that's what I always kind of what driven me was I'm not sure. where I'm going to go. I don't know what the next thing is. I don't see. I don't, I don't have vision like that sometimes. But the one thing that I do know is I don't want X. And in your case, like, I don't want to repeat that family, that family tree. I don't want to repeat what like the legacy of what was. I'm starting my new legacy. So I, and again, everyone has to have an anchor. And it seems like that's your anchor. Yeah. There was a client who just told me about a Japanese word or phrase. And I totally forget what it was.

but basically it's a concept of breaking the cycle. Yeah. And when to use your phrasing, when you have an anchor that is at a level 10 importance to you, then it gets pretty rational from there. So when I feel a negative emotion about charting the business forward, I simply look at it. Okay, well, what did you think changing your family tree would be like? Right.

So when you zoom out, you're like, yeah, of course. I mean, dude, our ancestors would probably have to travel, you know, across 3,000 miles of mixed terrain to help put their families in a better position. So then when I think that's like, well, what I'm doing is not that hard. Is it uncomfortable? Sure. But it beats trying to, you know, traverse the whole United States to get to California, you know, six generations ago. Yeah. Perspective, perspective, perspective. I think it's so easy.

I feel like when you're winning and when you kind of get through it, it's easy. And I just because I can, I just feel people listening to be like, oh, yeah, but you don't get my story. Oh, yeah, but the whole yeah, but. And it's, and I know it's easy for guys like you and I to talk about that and talk about how easy, you know, or how much, how different life is when you do the trucking through the through all the terrain and you finally get to the destination and things start working. But don't fool for a second. that you never get there without the pain.

Like you will not, like if you expect it to be easy, you'll never get to greatness. And I don't like saying this, but I'll say it, right? Another quote, I just love someone said this to me. I'm like so true. Poor people live an easy life and that's why their life is hard. Wealthy people live a hard life. And that's why their life is easy.

Yep, no doubt about it. So let's talk about the markets a little bit here because this is your expertise. I know I know you can't talk too much about it because you're legally buying to information and whatnot. But I just, there's so much happening in the world right now. There's so much going on with the markets right now. Any advice, and not advice, but any thoughts of what people can be thinking about at least in the next three, six, even a couple of years. If they're sitting there worried about the turmoil, worried about the wars, worried, I mean, it's a scary time. If you really look at what's going on in the world, it's a pretty scary time.

I'm not trying to do fearmongering or anything, but like, you know, rational, like, if you look at it with even just logically, it's a pretty scary time right now. Yeah. So I think a couple of frameworks to sort of get out of the way. Number one, what I like to think I teach is financial leadership. So you have to decide on do you want to be a financial leader for you or your family? If the answer is no, then you're probably just gambling. You know, you're going to be blown according to whatever wins of the time or whatever your friend tells you to invest in or whatever, right? But as you and I both know, well, if you step into the leadership role where you have to make decisions for other human beings, well, now that raises the game to an exponential level.

Okay, now I got to treat this stuff seriously. And I have to have conviction about my next moves. This is entirely different. This is so different than the buddy who shows up on poker and I said, oh, oh yeah, I invested in XYZ stock and it went up by 80%. It's like, yeah, you put $25 in the stock. Congratulations, it went up by 80%. You know the reason you need to put all of your bank account into that stock

is because you did not have conviction on it. But you like telling the story of the percentage of growth because it's cool to tell stories among buddies and that's fun. But when you're leading a family or leading a business, it's like I can't play around with my capital. I've got to put it in things that I have conviction on. Okay. That's the decision tree part number one.

Are you going to be a financial leader or are you just going to be a casual kind of player when you want to be? So I just want to speak to the financial leaders. Okay. Now, for the financial leaders, let's decision treat it out even from there. Are you going to be primarily an owner, a lender, a spender, or a saver? Well, we're still high level here. Yeah.

But primarily, that word is important, primarily are going to be an owner, a lender, a spender, or a saver. You are going to be all four of those most likely. But what is your tip of this beer? What are you primarily? Now, obviously, a spender is not going to build their wealth. If they're primarily a spender, you're not going to build much wealth. If you're a saver, to be honest with you, you're not going to build much wealth. Why? Because money just represents purchasing power. And money gets diluted over time via inflation. So unless you're a trust fund, baby, you inherit a bunch a capital and you can sustain the decay over time and you're still wealthy, that's probably not any of us on this call and any of us listening, right? So now we have two more left. Okay, are you going to

be primarily an owner or a lender? A lender can feel okay because it's kind of short-term stable. I'm going to lend my money to the bank, right? I'm going to get a CD. I'm going to buy some bonds, et cetera. That's okay. But if you're primarily doing that, what could be the problem? of that. Well, number one, if your personal inflation is at 6%, I don't care about CPI, I care about your personal inflation because it's your personal money. If your personal inflation is at 6%, and you're lending your money via bonds at 3, 4, 5%, you're losing purchasing power. This is quite obvious. Now, you still, in my opinion, should have that, where everybody should do whatever their advisor says. But for me, I still want to have some of that

for short-term stability in case I need in case the market takes a dive, et cetera, et cetera. but I want to be primarily an owner. If you look at any of the people that we admire who've built their wealth, not one single time have I said, oh, I want to be like that guy or girl because they were just really good at lending their money. No, it's always these people have built and or owned the things that are generating their money.

Okay. So I love it. I mean, this is great stuff. Owner, lender, spender, a saver. let's talk about the let's break this down a little bit like so when you're talking about owner you're talking about owner of business owner of their capital like owner you know an owner I would think is the guy who's being the financial leader first phenomenal question so now if we look at the owner category we can now break that into several subcategories owner okay well there's two types of assets don't there's speculative assets and then there's something called productive assets and I didn't make these up Warren Buffett talks about these a lot and other value investors talk about them a lot speculative assets on

on the one side is where you buy low and sell high, right? At least that's the goal. It's the only way in which I can make money is if I sell something for a higher price in which I bought it. Now, this sounds amazing, but what's the problem? It's incredibly hard to do. To put it in perspective, I know personally, and I can't name the certain types of assets that are in vogue right now, but you could probably imagine the ones that are in

all about, hey, my cousin bought this coin at X, Y, and Z dollars, and now it's dramatically above that. Here, I can tell you, I do not know anybody who's done that and built substantial wealth. You made no, but I don't know of them. And I've been working in finance for 20 years. You would have think that I would have come across at least two of them. I know zero of them. Now, I do know some people who have made some money, but that important part is, like,

some money because I also think people dramatically underestimate how much money it actually takes to reach financial escape velocity. Like, oh, wow. Okay. Let's love it, love it, love it. Financial escape velocity, massive. I think that I would, I would assume anybody listening to this podcast is trying to achieve that. You're not in business if you're not trying to achieve that.

what is financial escape velocity? I mean, when I think about like, what number is that today? And then what's that number in 100 years from now? Because those are two different numbers with inflation. So yeah, let's talk about that.

So back in the napkin, so back of the napkin math, it's going to be relatively similar for most people. And it's going to be slightly different for most people. So financial escape velocity, as I define it, is at what point will my portfolio assets generate me enough income net in perpetuity for me to survive and ideally

increase, maintain or increase my lifestyle as we go along. That number plus having what I call moat money. So between two and five years of expenses in short and medium term assets. So that way if my long term assets dip temporarily, I have a whole war chest of short, medium term assets that I could live off of in the meantime. Yeah, again, let's break that down because I got that, but just in case someone's not understanding that is basically, I'm going to just tell me if this is correct or not. You're going to take then, you're going to look at your lifestyle and you're going to ask the question, how much more do I want? How much more do I need?

And you're going to go, what money, what amount of money or that's called purchasing power do I need to be able to sustain that lifestyle, a minimum? I love what you said for three to five. but I would think, you know, almost ideally for the rest of your life, depending where you are in your, in your life cycle. And that that asset is continuously producing income to support your lifestyle and ideally building as well because you do not want to start hitting that principle

because that's where people start losing their shirt. Exactly. So if we look at where let's let's pretend I was retired. Now, full transparency, I don't want to ever retire. That's just, it's just not my DNA. Well, let's say if I were to be my goal of being mathematically able to retire would be that my long-term assets would be able to produce for me enough net income and still grow while simultaneously paying for my expenses. Yeah.

Now, that's the first prerequisite. However, I like to add a buffer to that, which is, okay, but what if my long-term assets are down? What if we have a 2008 or a COVID or et cetera? Okay. I don't really want to be removing my. long-term assets during those volatile times. In fact, I'd rather let my dividends and my rental income and my business distributions reinvest when prices drop so I can build up more density and take advantage of pricing opportunities. But where am I going to live off at that point?

Okay, well, I'll go over to my two to five years of capital that are not in long-term assets. Those are in short-term assets. Super short-term stable from a volatility perspective, but they don't grow very much over the long-term. So I only have, I want to get scatim scalpel level precision with that bucket of money. Because if I over index on it, well, now I'm giving up longer term growth and inflation is a real killer of money. Like to the degree that most people, they kind of understand the concept, but they don't really grasp the magnitude of how much inflation can just murder your money over time. Especially if it's not growing. Oh, my God.

Like especially if you don't have it growing. So it's interesting because you just said that the spender is definitely not going to get there. the saver is not necessarily going to get there. And I, because I always, I always lived my life with this, you know, oh,

if you save a penny, blah, blah, blah, you know, and it's like, no, a penny saved is literally a penny

at the end of the day. You're just saving it. You cannot grow saving pennies. Like the way do you grow, you got to go, how I live my life, you got to go all in. If you want to go big

and you don't have generational wealth, you got to go and you're not going to save your, I don't care in anybody. You're not going to save yourself into wealth, like making a couple hundred grand a year within, with inflation. Like, you got to go in and go hard and then have that money start working for you

and not be afraid. And that's the, that's the, I think that's the owner, the owner concept is like, even understanding as a financial leader and an owner, like, you might take some hints and you might make some wrong moves. But again, are you, are you going to stay in the game long enough to get back up and keep moving? Yeah. And this is where that distinction between speculative assets and productive assets is super

important. So if we backtrack a little bit and say, okay, speculative assets, well, if the only way in which I can make money is if the price gets higher and I sell it at the right time, because the price could always drop after it reaches a peak, well, that's a really hard game, like really hard game. But if I go on the other side and I have more of a productive asset philosophy, which a productive asset high level is, okay, does the asset itself produce cash, and ideally cash flow to the investor. And then to what degree does it do it? So I'd rather do that.

I'd rather buy assets, whether it be private business, public companies, or real estate that produce income for me because at the core, there's a value exchange. The way you make money in an economy is you produce value at a fair margin. The way you multiply that money is, in my opinion, just by investing in value creation. So make money by creating value. grow the money by investing in value creation. The nucleus of both of those is fair money exchange for value created. Now, in a productive asset, you put them all on a buffet and you say, okay, well, here's all of the productive assets that I could invest in right now.

Which one do I think is the best? As simple as this sounds, most people just don't do that. They just don't look at all the universe of investments that they could invest in and then select what they think is the best. When Warren Buffett was interviewed one time, it was phenomenal. He said, hey, Warren, how did you get so good at investing? He said, well, I would study Moody's manuals and read other books, et cetera. And the interviewer was like, well, Moody's manuals, I mean, those are thousands of pages back in the day. And they said, well, how did you simplify it?

And where did you start? He said, well, I started from the letter A. And then I read it all. And it's like, oh, that's what due diligence looks like. but most people don't do it. They just don't. If we're all being honest with ourselves, most of us do not do proper due diligence.

Well, and there's companies out there that do the due diligence that you can lean on and trust on. Totally well. Yeah. Man, I think there's so much, like I'm just sitting here going,

wow, if anyone listen to that and you're wondering what you got to, even business owners that are listening to this, you've got to make that decision. Are you going to be that financial leader and decide if you want to be the owner, the lender, the spender, the saver. For those who are,

are spenders, let's say, because we live in this world of spending, right? How is there, what would you tell the spender to or what's something the spender can think about that maybe stops them from basically making another spending move that's going to get them away from their, their wealth, uh, you know, well, that wealth, uh, escape velocity, let's call that right. Um, and to keep them more focus on that. And what I'm, I mean specifically, I just is I used to myself, I don't do this anymore because it got me in trouble. I used to, the wrong advice, right? I don't have an income problem. I sorry, I don't have an expense problem. I have an income problem. I just got to make more income. Well, you know what happens.

You keep spending more and you keep spending more. You keep telling yourself, you only have an income problem. You just keep spending more. That didn't work for me. Obviously, I've had to change that, that way of being. But for those people that just don't understand that concept, like, what do you, What do you say? So the first framework that I would offer up is putting yourself on a rubric. We have a scorecard that we give to clients. And we say, okay, let's find out where the problem in your wealth building protocol is. We break it down really simply.

Wealth building is not investing. Investing is a component of wealth. So if we zoom out, it's okay. Well, how do one actually build wealth? Number one, make money. number two, save money. Number three, grow money. That's how you build wealth.

Those are three macro pieces you need to do. And then each one of those breaks down to certain subcategories. So if we look at making money, most of the time, that's where the problem is. From what I've seen, boots on the ground, most of the time it's like, oh, no, you don't have an investment problem.

You have an earnings problem, and that's okay. Now, if we've checked that box to your point, The next problem we have is very likely saving. Very likely. Okay. Well, I'd much rather have somebody who makes a million dollars a year with a saving problem, meaning he just spends too much, than the opposite or the inverse. The guy who makes 10 grand a year and saves 99% of it, but he only makes 10k a year.

It is way harder, like way harder to make a lot of money than it is to solve for a spending issue. Yeah. Okay. Well, I love that. That's good to know. And I hear you because we just talked about the beginning. Like you can't, you can't invest 10 grand and expected to become something. But a guy that's making a million, two million a year and spending half of that, right? There's money there to be saved. There's money there still being enjoyed. There's money to be there saved. And there's money to be there to invest and grow. It goes, and when you said that, it goes to a comment I used to say was like very little people know how to make it, almost even very little know how to keep it and almost nobody knows how to like you know the 1.001% knows how to invest it

and there's those three things even if they know how to invest it can they can they stick to the plan for three decades yeah most people can't do it's very hard but for the people who do man the rewards are amazing well that's what you i'm just going to say it that's what happens when you get generational wealth like i was talking to someone the other day and they're like and it was like a mentor mine and the way he said it i was like oh my god they're like kevin you don't realize you're not the one you're unfortunately not going to be the one to live the life like the one you want right now he's like but your kids if you do it smart are going to live the life that you've been trying to live and i and i and i got like it was he was kind of talking about that that that idea of

that generational wealth it takes a little time to create and and built and as long as your kids don't fucking up it can grow right what do they say is it the second or third generation fucks it all up or something? First generation makes it second builds it. And then the third just messes it all up. Yeah, it's something like that. Like the first generation builds it. The next generation enjoys it.

The third person, the third generation destroys it. Something like that. I've seen it. I don't, I've seen a couple times interesting or not. Like I've hung out with, and I'm talking hundreds and $200 million, you know,

generational wealth types of kids. And they're on the third round. And sure enough, like, and I see the, like the fighting that goes on, the protection that goes on. It's, you know, the bankers have been there for, for 30 years trying to, you know, help grow it and kids want to spend it becomes an absolute nightmare. What a nightmare. And also on the flip side, what an honor it is for us to grow up at the bottom. Because I can tell you that's been one of the biggest blessings in my life. if I didn't have that pain to contrast my actions with,

I wouldn't take the actions. If you're born into wealth, it's, I feel bad for those people, literally, because it is so hard to take action when you, we're like, oh,

well, life is great. Why would I, you're subconscious, why would I take any action? If I literally don't have to, having to psychologically manufacture reasons for action is really different.

school. Some people can do it, but I'm not one of those people. So I need it that visceral, hey, if I don't go to work at the age of 11, we're not going to be able to get food. Right. Like it's so it's so binary. The decision is easy. Yeah, I agree. I totally agree. I see it all time as much as as as much as there's two pains. There's pain everywhere. There's pain on each side of the coin. And it's the what's the pain that's going to grow you, drive, you move you? And what's the pain that's going to hold you down, pin you down, paralyze you. And it might feel good, but there's pain that happens deep within. I, man, I just want to say this is a great conversation. As we come to a close here, I can tell people, I feel it. People are like, how do I get?

Like, you obviously, you know what you're talking about. You're an expert in your craft here. How can people get a hold of you? Yeah. I mean, so I'm on, we just started, but I'm on YouTube now, West Rollins and then same thing with Instagram and then my company's website, you know, my contact information is on there. It's such an honor man to talk to you. I wanted to spend a lot of time in private for the last 15 years plus of just building. So that way I finally felt like I had something to say. And sharing my battle stories and showing the scars,

hopefully we'll be able to get some people to avoid those problems. And then also maybe to even inspire people. So it's just such an honor because this is literally my first sort of round of getting out there on the internet. So I appreciate the support. I'm happy to have you, man. From what you're saying, I'll tell you, people need to hear you. There's a young generation that I can tell you. I should say early investors that need to hear everything you're saying and reach out.

Because, you know, it's not by fluke that you go from zero to $600 million under management. And for those that are not watching and listening, we're talking to a very young man over here. I'm not going to mention his name. Is this or his age or anything? But I can tell you that this is a young guy who has a lot of hustle on him. So make sure if you're even thinking about wealth management, go to the show notes, go look at at West. Reach out to him. I'm sure he'd love to have a conversation.

Thank you, brother. It's an honor and pleasure, buddy. Appreciate it.